January 28, 2025 • 27 mins
The podcast delves into the complexities and challenges of the American healthcare system, arguing that it often prioritizes profit over patient care. Through the lens of investigative journalism from More Perfect Union, the hosts explore how companies like CVS Caremark and pharmaceutical giants manipulate the system to maximize their profits, often at the expense of those they are supposed to serve. They highlight the troubling trend of Medicare Advantage plans cherry-picking healthier patients to boost their bottom line, leaving those with greater needs reliant on traditional Medicare. The discussion also uncovers the hidden influence of consulting firms like McKinsey, which contribute to a system that seems rigged against everyday citizens. Ultimately, the episode emphasizes the importance of staying informed and advocating for healthcare reform to ensure that the interests of patients are prioritized over corporate greed.
The podcast delves into the intricacies and issues surrounding the American healthcare system, raising critical questions about its efficacy and accessibility. The hosts, with the help of investigative journalism from More Perfect Union, examine whether the healthcare landscape is fundamentally designed to benefit corporations rather than patients. They highlight the confusion and frustration many face when navigating healthcare options, particularly Medicare Advantage plans, which are heavily marketed as cost-effective choices but may prioritize profit over patient care. Through examples like CVS Caremark and the impact of the Biden administration's actions against fraud, the discussion reveals how healthcare companies often prioritize their bottom line, leading to detrimental effects on both employees and consumers. With a focus on the systemic issues, the episode emphasizes the need for transparency and accountability in a system that often feels rigged against the average person.
The narrative also explores the alarming consequences of corporate control in healthcare, illustrated by the shortage of critical medical supplies, such as IV bags, following Hurricane Helene. The podcast underscores the dangers of having a single company dominate a vital resource, highlighting how such monopolistic practices can endanger lives. Furthermore, the hosts discuss the role of pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) in escalating drug prices, portraying them as hidden players in a convoluted system that drives up costs for consumers. The episode challenges listeners to consider the broader implications of these practices, urging them to recognize the interconnectedness of corporate greed and public health.
Towards the conclusion, the podcast shifts towards empowerment, encouraging listeners to become advocates for change. It stresses the importance of staying informed, engaging with elected officials, and participating in local organizations dedicated to healthcare justice. The episode serves as a call to action, emphasizing that collective efforts can lead to meaningful reforms in a healthcare system that often feels overwhelming and unfair. By fostering awareness and community engagement, the hosts aim to inspire listeners to take ownership of their health care experiences and push for a system that genuinely serves the needs of all individuals, rather than just corporate interests.
Takeaways:
- The American healthcare system is structured to prioritize profits over patient care, leading to widespread issues.
- Pharmaceutical companies often set exorbitant prices for medications, making them inaccessible to many.
- Medicare Advantage plans are designed to attract healthier patients, leaving vulnerable individuals behind.
- The influence of consulting firms like McKinsey perpetuates a culture of profit-driven healthcare.
- Pharmacy benefit managers operate as middlemen, contributing to rising drug prices and complicating the system.
- The case of...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So healthcare, right. It'slike, I don't even know where to
begin. This is some giantconfusing thing we all have to deal
with.
It really is. And today we'regoing to try to make a little more
sense of it maybe.
Yeah, like, are we justtotally getting scammed? That's what
we're asking today.
And we're going to use somehelp from More Perfect Union, the
(00:21):
investigative journalism outlet.
They do some great work, don'tthey? They really pull back the curtain
on stuff that's, you know,maybe not working as well as it should.
So in this case, they'relooking at the American healthcare
system and they're like, thisis just a giant scam.
They go into a whole bunch ofdifferent examples, such as big pharma
(00:41):
IV bags, like the ones you seein the hospital.
Get ready to be, I don't know,like shocked, a little bit angry,
maybe laugh a little becauseit's just so ridiculous. It's good
for you to laugh about it.Let's start with something that a
lot of people are dealing withright now. Medicare Advantage. Have
you heard of this? Yourparents, maybe?
(01:01):
I have, actually.
It's, it's everywhere, right?All those ads, like it's the cheaper,
better way to Medicare.
Right. But is it really?That's what More Perfect Union is
looking into. They think it'smore about companies making a ton
of money than it is aboutactually taking care of people. And
specifically at this company,CVS Caremark, a giant pharmacy company.
(01:23):
Yeah, they are everywhere.
The Biden administrationstarted cracking down on fraud within
the system. And guess whathappened? CVS's profits took a big
hit.
That's interesting.
Very interesting. Maybe alittle too interesting. So it's like
they were betting on a systemthat only works if you bend the rules
a little bit. And speaking ofcvs, let's zoom in on what's going
(01:46):
on inside their actual stores.Picture this. You're a pharmacist,
right? You're totally stressedout, totally overworked, and you're
like, I'm afraid I'm going tokill someone. Because you're so overworked.
Oh, yeah. And that's not amade up scenario. That's for More
Perfect Union. They found thatthis is a real problem, that pharmacists
(02:09):
at CVS are under so muchpressure, they're worried about making
mistakes.
That's scary, right?
An irony. CVS is like thismega healthcare company, but their
own employees are oftenstruggling to afford health care.
Some of them are even onpublic assistance. It's like Walmart,
the richest company, buteveryone's on welfare.
Wow.
(02:30):
It's like they can't even takecare of their own people. What does
that say about the whole system?
Okay, ready for a curveball.Remember a hurricane, Helen, right?
Yeah. 24.
Well, it causes nationwideshortage of IV bags. Turns out almost
all of them from one company,Baxter International. And the hurricane
hit their frame main facility.
(02:51):
Well, the threat of a longterm shortage did prompt the administration
to invoke the DefenseProduction act to help speed up recovery
efforts and get that NorthCove plant back up and running. In
addition to canceling orpostponing elective surgical procedures.
You know, Hoffman hospitalsare also turning to alternatives
(03:14):
for hydration like hydrationtablets and Gatorade. And they're
prioritizing IV fluids for themost acute patients and the most
vulnerable, like children.Some hospitals are even beginning
to produce their ownsolutions. The FDA did release new
guidance that eases up onrules regarding the compounding of
(03:35):
IV solutions. And that's tomake it easier for hospitals and
other facilities to do thisduring the the shortage period.
So suddenly hospitals are allover looking like crap, like we need
IV bags. It's like finding outyour whole city relies on one grocery
store for milk and it's justclosed down.
Wow. You know, actually Iheard about that IV shortage. That's
(03:58):
exactly the point More PerfectUnion is making. When one company
has that much control oversomething that's so important, it's
a recipe for disaster. Likewhat if you're in the hospital and
you need an iv? It's not aboutinconvenience. It's about life and
death. Right? Let's talkmedications. We've all heard about
(04:19):
oic, right? And this weightloss drug, miracle drug, does all
kinds of other things. It'sfeatured on Berlin Catwalks. It could
be a huge fight againstobesity. But there is a catch. It's
super expensive in the UnitedStates, like $936. And in other countries,
(04:41):
a tenth of that price.
Wow, that is something.
So this is a miracle cure orare we just getting ripped off?
Makes you wonder, if this drugis already so expensive, what does
it mean for the future ofhealthcare costs? Is anything going
to be affordable?
Right. Is it? And speaking ofthings that are maybe not so good
(05:04):
for us, let's talk aboutsugar. Everyone loves a little something
sweet. I do. But did you everthink about how Sweet Tooth was created?
Not really. When I'm eating adelicious pint of ice cream.
Yes, the Talenti ice cream.Not sponsored. Well, more Perfect
Union. I keep Saying MorePerfect Union because I want these
(05:26):
guys to get all the creditthey can. Looked into this. They
found that the Sugarassociation, there's a thing. The
Sugar association, theindustry group for sugar, has spent
decades trying to downplay howbad sugar is for us. They even paid
scientists to say that fat andcholesterol were the real problem
when it comes to heartdisease. It's like finding out your
(05:47):
favorite movie was actuallydirected by a super villain.
Wow. It makes you think howmuch of what we believe about food
is actually true and how muchof it is just marketing.
Exactly right. Because one dayeggs are bad, the next day they're
suddenly on a good list. Oneday coffee is going to kill you,
the next day it's actuallygood if you don't put any sugar in.
It all helps your Alzheimer's.It gets even crazier. You know lunchables,
(06:10):
right?
Oh yeah, those little snack packs.
Yeah. More Perfect Union foundthat they had lead in them and Craft,
the company that makes themkept selling them to schools for
that national school lunchprogram even after they knew about
the lead. Hey, took a massivepublic outcry, like 50 plus thousand
petitions to finally getpulled. It's like how do you even
(06:32):
find out that there's lead?And then how do you even galvanize
all these people to go and doa petition? I mean these are by definition
lower socioeconomic.Impoverished people were getting
free lunches, right?
Absolutely. It's so terriblethat they prioritize profits over
kids health like that.
Are we surprised? I guess wecan act surprised. Oh, it's pretty
(06:53):
messed up. But then we got bigpharma, so now the sugar looks like
nothing. And the big pharma iswaiting to help us get, get better
from all the sugar. Who can wetrust? Big pharma, Sugar, Lead. And
there's another player in allof this. Most ad lib moment, another
(07:15):
player in all of this thatmost people don't even want to know
about or don't know about. Andif they do, they don't want to know
about.
Let me say that again.McKinsey's biggest money earner is
our health care system. Andit's also where they've done some
of the most damage. In 2018,McKinsey was contracted with the
nonprofit hospital ProvidenceMedical to design a program to get
(07:37):
more patients to pay theirmedical bills.
Providence Hospital is a taxexempt hospital. They're required
to provide free care to poorpeople, people. And they were looking
for any way to cut costs.McKinsey and Company, I mean many
who Are listening to this, aregoing to be shocked that McKinsey
and company is coming up onthis podcast as a hidden influencer.
(07:58):
Ultimately, we need tountangle the dependency on consulting
McKinsey has fostered in our government.
Things are set up in such away where if you just like cut.
Off the consulting firms, Idon't think you can build up that
capacity overnight.
They're like this superpowerful consulting firm. Right.
People clamor to get a role atMcKinsey & Co. And work their fingers
to the bone. And they do havea prestigious portfolio. It's like
(08:21):
the Deloitte of consulting inhealthcare, kind of a little bit
more niche. They advise prettymuch every major industry, including
health care.
Really? Yeah. I've never heardof them, actually.
Yeah, they're kind of behindthe scenes. The reporting from the
investigative journalistswhere we're following that, they're
part of the problem. Theybasically tell companies to make
(08:43):
as much money as possible,which, I mean, you know, to their
defense, if you're gettinghired to consult, you're probably
getting hired to consult totry to increase revenues, not decrease
them. But they tell thesecompanies how to make as much money
as possible, even if it meanscutting corners on safety, which
I have a problem with treatingtheir employers badly and charging
(09:05):
consumers more.
Wow, that's really terrible.And it's almost like they're the
masterminds behind all the scams.
Yes. And the legal counsel ofthe show does want us to point out
that we are following thereporting from More Perfect union.
As to McKinsey & Co. And theirbehind the scenes influence, they
are pretty much part of theproblem because they perpetuate this
(09:32):
money making craze inhealthcare and they're almost like
the puppet masters pullingstrings. If I could get visual with
you, it's not just healthcare.They're everywhere. But okay, let's
stick with healthcare for nowbecause healthcare is a touchy and
important issue. What happenswhen you need to go to the emergency
(09:52):
room? You know you're havingan emergency, you're freaking out.
Well, increasingly thoseemergency rooms are being taken over
by something called privateequity firms. Private equity firms.
And these are essentiallylarge buckets of money. They're not
venture capitalists becauseventure capitalists typically invest
(10:13):
earlier on. Private equitycomes in and provides, quote, growth
capital. They have all kindsof nice ways of saying what they're
doing. More Perfect Union saysthat that's not good news for patients.
Think about it. Your hot. Youremergency room is owned by a firm
that manages private equity,meaning longer wait times Higher
bills and most likely worst care.
(10:38):
And why is that?
Well, because private equityfirms, their whole thing is about
making money. It's in the nameprivate equity. So that they come
in, they cut costs, theysqueeze every penny out of the system,
and guess who suffers? It'slike healthcare is becoming discino,
where you're gambling withyour health and your finances. And
speaking of finances, we gotto talk about prescription drug prices.
(11:02):
They're insane in the USAright now.
Yes, they're way outrageous, honestly.
But do you know why? I don'trole of pharmacy benefit managers.
That's why. Well, part of theproblem is these things called pharmacy
benefit manager, pbm, damn it.Something like this. So people could
(11:23):
twist their tongues whenthey're talking about these middlemen
in the drug supply chain.
What do they do?
Yeah, that is one of the mostcommon questions. Everyone says,
what is a pbm? They've neverheard of a pharmacy benefit manager.
And say, I've never talked toa pharmacy benefit manager is because
they are the middleman.They're the one in between. They're
between the drug companies,the insurance companies, the pharmacists
(11:45):
and the patients. They'refacilitating the price negotiation,
but they're actually the onesactually setting the formulary. They
determine often if you get ageneric drug, a biosimilar or a brand
drug, what that cost is.
And more. Perfect Union saysthey're basically running a legal
bribery scheme that drives upprices for everyone. Well, part of
(12:06):
the problem is these thingscalled pharmacy benefit managers,
or PBMs. They sound innocent,but they're these middlemen in the
drug supply chain. And more.Perfect Union says they're basically
running a legal bribery schemethat drives up prices for everyone.
This whole tangled web, andit's hard to tell who's benefiting,
who's getting screwed. It'sprobably by design, isn't it?
(12:28):
It's like the more you learnabout this stuff, the more confusing
it gets.
Exactly.
Yeah. That's a whole nother issue.
But okay, before we wrap upthis part, we've got to talk about
one final example of how thehealth system seems designed to just
take all of our money and justtake it away, not even give it back.
So I want to talk about thecase of. Let's. Let's both talk about
(12:50):
the case of Kiturada andhealthcare costs. Key to Ruda, which
is a cancer drug, costs anunbelievable $200,000.
How could anyone afford that?
That's the point. And here'sthe kicker. It was developed using
taxpayer dollars. So we allhelp Pay for it. This is a classic
story. We all help pay for itand now we can't even afford it.
(13:13):
The company that makes KitrudaMerck is basically profiting off
a drug we all funded. And nowmy blood pressure is changing. How
many need Merck medication?And get this, the government could
actually lower the price bytaking back the patent. But they
haven't. I wonder like who,who's benefit? Someone's benefiting
from it.
(13:33):
Yeah, that's just. That's justso wrong that they're doing that.
Honestly, it's a prime exampleof how the system seems to be rigged
against us, the regularpeople. And we're not even that regular.
At least we know some of thisstuff, right? Those that don't know
it all. But hey, don't worry,it's not all doom and gloom. We're
going to dive deeper into someof these issues and talk about what
you could do to fight back.That's the only part that's not doom
(13:56):
and gloom. You can fight back.
No, yeah, that would be great.Just to shed some light on this very,
you know, morbid topics.
Why? Because it's depressingOdin and me. I know, right? But stick
with us. There is hope. We'refirst going to depress you and then
give you hope. Just likepharma. So we've uncovered some pretty
shady stuff happening inhealthcare. And we'll talk about
(14:18):
healthcare. I want to circleback to Medicare Advantage for a
minute. You know that programthat's supposed to be cheaper and
better than traditionalMedicare? I feel like there's something
we're missing here.
You're right. There's a lotmore to the story. Remember how More
Perfect Union pointed out thatMedicare Advantage plus seems to
attract healthier patients?That's no accident. These companies
have figured out how to cherrypick the people who are less likely
(14:40):
to need expensive care,leaving traditional Medicare to cover
the folks with more complexmedical needs.
I love your word choice cherrypick because this reminds me of an
actual ban on cherry pickingquotes, which is a thing where not
too long ago MedicareAdvantage plans would set up their
(15:02):
Medicare 101 sessions toentice these patients to enroll in
their insurance companies. Andthat would select second floor of
a two or more story buildingwithout an elevator. So if the patients
couldn't get up there, thenthey were not healthy enough. Oh,
to be. Yeah. So essentiallythey were cherry picking by choosing
spaces that disabled peoplewho presumably cost more could not
(15:26):
access anyway to reach theirmarketing material. So it's kind
of like an insurance Companysetting up a buffet and only inviting
the people who eat salad.
Ah. And they make it even moreenticing with all those extra perks
and benefits. A lot of theseperks might not actually be worth
it in the long run. It's allabout making Medicare Advantage look
(15:47):
more attractive, even if itmeans leaving the most vulnerable
person behind.
I mean, if you notice thoseMedicare Advantage ads, they literally
have like the Medicare eagle,which isn't even a thing. I think
it's like on your originalMedicare card, there's like a little
eagle or something. They makeit look all official, you know, like
this is coming. They, they putall the senior citizens favorite
(16:08):
people on and it's all about.All about leaving the vulnerable
people behind. Because thoseAdvantage plans, Medicare Advantage
companies don't want you toutilize their services. Right. That
makes the whole CVS situationeven more suspicious. When the government
cracked down on fraud inMedicare Advantage, CVS wasn't very
happy about it. Realized CVShas only been in the insurance business
(16:32):
for just a number of smallnumber of years. I mean, they were.
They bought Aetna and suddenlycvs, Aetna is in Medicare Advantage.
Seems like their wholebusiness model relied on this system
that wasn't exactly playing bythe rules.
And that brings us back to thecore issue. The healthcare system
is designed to prioritizeprofit over people. Whether it's
(16:53):
insurance companies,pharmaceutical companies who seem
innocent, like lunchboxsnacks, even the focus seems to be
on making money. Even it comesat the expense of.
Our health or glamorous likeMacKenzie and company. Speaking of
which, let's go back to the IVbag shortage caused by Hurricane
Helene. It's crazy to thinkthat one company, Baxter International,
(17:18):
had so much control oversomething as basic as IV bags. It's
like they were holding theentire health system hostage. People
at hospitals had to ration IVbags. It was like a big thing.
Oh, wow.
I bet you didn't see that onPITS or House MD or whichever medical
trauma people are watching more.
Perfect Union found out thatBaxter has a bit of a reputation
for doing that kind of thing.They've been accused of price gouging
(17:41):
in the past, taking advantageof their dominant position to inflate
prices. So it's not just aboutthe hurricane. It's about a company
that seems to prioritizeprofits over patients.
Reporting highlights howlobbying and political influence
play a huge role in shapingthe healthcare industry. It's pretty
simple if you think about it.You send a nice lobbyist or few up
(18:02):
to Washington, day wine anddine, it's simple. The incentives
align very quickly. We aretalking about millions of dollars.
Not. That's anunderestimation. Billions of dollars
spent to influence politiciansand block regulations that might
threaten corporate profits.
UnitedHealth Group's chiefexecutive bragged about how the Biden
(18:24):
administration'sineffectiveness in cracking down
on over billing in MedicareAdvantage has led to record profits.
So the CEO Andrew Witty, toldinvestors that he appreciates the
White House's decision to slowthe implementation of its Medicare
Advantage reforms, which wouldprevent companies like UnitedHealth
(18:47):
from potentially over billingand stealing from United States taxpayers.
It's a giant game of chess.But the average person isn't even
allowed on the board. We'rejust playing pawns in a system designed
to benefit the powerful andthe wealthy.
Yes. Not even allowed to playon the board.
Crazy.
Which brings us back toMcKenzie and co, those behind the
(19:10):
scene consultants who seem tobe whispering in the ears of everyone
in power. What are youwhispering? What exactly are you
doing that's so shady?
Yeah, and the articledescribes them as an ultimate profit
whisperers. They advisecompanies on how to squeeze every
last dollar out of the system,even if it means cutting corners,
exploiting workers and drivingup prices for customers.
(19:33):
It's like they figured out thesecret formula for corporate greed
and they're selling it to thehighest bidder.
And the scary part is thatthey operate in the shadows. Most
people have no idea who theyare or the extent of their influence.
They're like the puppetmasters behind the curtain shaping
the entire healthcarelandscape to benefit a select few.
(19:55):
As I continue to publiclydisqualify myself from ever working
with McKenzie, it makes youwonder if there's anyone looking
out for the interest ofpatients and everyday people in this
whole mess.
That's why it's important tobe aware what's going on and to speak
up honestly. We just can't letcorporations dictate how our healthcare
system operates.
You know, being aware is onething. Speaking up is another. Doing
(20:18):
those two things at once isyet a completely different other
aspect. Now, if you'reemployed by one of these corporations
or if you have reasons to beconcerned of retribution or retaliation,
you're going to sit there veryquietly and not speak, even if you're
aware. So the question hereis, what can we actually do? It feels
(20:42):
like we're against these giantpowerful forces that don't want us
at the board.
Exactly. Remember that evensmall actions can honestly make a
difference. Isn't just aboutexposing problems. It's about empowering
people to take Action.
Well, now I'm so empowered Icould barely stand. And what are
some practical things ourlisteners can do to fight back against
(21:05):
this massive depressivedifferent formation we've shared
with them?
I'm glad you asked. First,let's stay informed. Keep learning
about these issues, not justfrom perfect union, but from other
sources too. The more youunderstand how the system works,
the better equipped you'll beto advocate for change.
That sounds like a lot ofenergy. So knowledge is power, but
(21:28):
what about actually doing something?
Well, what are the mostpowerful tools you have? Get ready
for this is your voice.Contact your elected officials. Let
them know you care abouthealthcare reform and that you want
them to support policies thatbenefit patients, not just corporations.
(21:49):
People underestimate how muchpower a phone call or email to a
rep can have. Now, as I, as I,as I admittedly read that part of
the script, I mean, afterminutes and minutes and minutes of
saying the world's biggestcompanies and the consultants are
all out to get you, we'retelling people how much a phone call
(22:09):
or email to a rep can have.It's like that old saying, the squeaky
wheel gets the grease. Thatgives me hope because it's true.
If enough people make noise,our elected officials will have to
listen.
Exactly. And you also look foropportunities to get involved in
your community. Are therelocal organizations fighting for
healthcare justice? Thereprobably are. You can volunteer your
(22:31):
time, donate if you can, orsimply spread the word.
You know what I want to do,Odin? Actually, since we're talking
about calling electedofficials, we should bring out and
expose folks from both partieswho have conspired to bring us to
this point where we cannotafford anything, really. And everywhere
(22:55):
you turn, there's someconspiracy, some Wall street conspiracy.
Whether It's CVS or McKenzieor whatever, both sides have had
this issue exasperated. So,elected official, no, no, it's not
the other side. It's the onesthat you voted for. It's the ones
that I voted for. I mean, it'skind of hard because you only have
so many choices. And they'reall conspiring. Why? Because as Odin
(23:18):
said earlier, they're sittingthere with lobbyists at beautiful
steakhouses, at these dinners.There's all this conspiracy going
on. And think about the costof the conspiracy versus the gain
of the prophet. It'smonumental. Monumental, Absolutely.
Collective action is keythere. Strength in numbers. Persistence
(23:40):
pays off sometimes. It reallydoes. Persistence does pay off. It
takes a village to take down agiant corporation.
That's a great way to put it.
And remember, community therehas to be community.
I mean, there's always LosAngeles in New York.
Is there a community? And it'sno longer in line with humanity.
(24:01):
Yeah, it does come to thequestion sometimes, right? Like,
are you willing to sellyourself out or are you willing to
continue? You know, depends onthe pricing. Depends on the pricing.
Depends on the pricing.
Yeah, you know, it's, it'stough. Especially whenever obviously
some people have like thesemorals and want to keep going, but
then, you know, they need topay rent.
(24:23):
There's a way to, to make yourmorals work. Like, you don't need
to be immoral to make money inhealth care. Like, there is money
already in healthcare to bemade. I guess maybe where these guys
are, they're the big dogs.They just suck money out of the system
and make it generallyavailable in healthcare for guys
like us to go and, you know,say, okay, move a little bit of this
(24:46):
here. Give it to the doctor,not the hospital. Move a little bit
here, move a little bit there.Let's, let's keep that note then
as we wrap up this. We'vespent all this time doing this deep
dive using a lot of thereporting from More Perfect Union,
follow their material. Andwe've seen through our own life experience
(25:10):
some of this manifesting.We've seen how corporations, the
kind of that put profits aheadof people, have been just getting
bigger and bigger and biggerand bigger. Now they're calling them
too big to feel. Yeah, systemseems kind of rigged, you know, it
(25:31):
really does for the peoplewith all the power and money. The
rest of us are kind of justlike stuck paying for it all.
So crazy, right?
It really is. But I'mwondering, like, okay, what can we
actually do about it?
That's the question, right?You hear all this stuff, you're like,
well, great, now what? Butactually More Perfect Union, they
(25:52):
just don't leave us hanging.They give us some ideas, some actual.
Steps we can take, includingsubscribing to this show, which doesn't
exactly come from More PerfectUnion, but I'm sure the sentiments
aligned. Let's. So let's startwith practical step number two, if
that's step number one.
So, yeah, so step number twois to always start with information,
right? So you're already doingthat, listening to this deep dive.
(26:14):
The more that you understand,the better you can spot ways to fight
back.
Makes sense. But likeinformation without action is also
useless, you guys.
Very true. So this is whereyour voice comes in. You have power.
Remember that. You're just nota consumer in the system. You're
a citizen. So talk to yourelected officials, all of them, local,
state, federal. Let them knowthat the health care reform that
(26:36):
is important to you and tellthem that you want to support policies
that help patients, not justbig companies.
I think we have to innovatehow we reach out to these elected
officials.
Just remember, you have power.You have. You might feel small, but
you're not powerless. Yourvoice matters. What you do matters.
And if we all work together,we can change this. We can make healthc
(26:57):
care better for everybody.
And remember, you don't haveto be an expert or a politician to
make a difference. Stayinformed, talk to people, speak up
for what you believe in. Everylittle bit helps. And no, we're not
asking for your money. We'reasking for your vigor, your energy
(27:17):
that wraps up this deep diveinto the healthcare system. Conspiracy,
inspired and as exposed bymore the guys at More Perfect Union.
They're doing such importantwork. So go check out their website
and their material. And to allof those listeners out there, remember,
you have the power to changethings. So stay curious, important,
(27:41):
stay engaged, important, andstay hopeful. Most important.
So healthcare, right. It'slike, I don't even know where to
begin. This is some giantconfusing thing we all have to deal
with.
It really is. And today we'regoing to try to make a little more
sense of it maybe.
Yeah, like, are we justtotally getting scammed? That's what
we're asking today.
And we're going to use somehelp from More Perfect Union, the
(00:21):
investigative journalism outlet.
They do some great work, don'tthey? They really pull back the curtain
on stuff that's, you know,maybe not working as well as it should.
So in this case, they'relooking at the American healthcare
system and they're like, thisis just a giant scam.
They go into a whole bunch ofdifferent examples, such as big pharma
(00:41):
IV bags, like the ones you seein the hospital.
Get ready to be, I don't know,like shocked, a little bit angry,
maybe laugh a little becauseit's just so ridiculous. It's good
for you to laugh about it.Let's start with something that a
lot of people are dealing withright now. Medicare Advantage. Have
you heard of this? Yourparents, maybe?
(01:01):
I have, actually.
It's, it's everywhere, right?All those ads, like it's the cheaper,
better way to Medicare.
Right. But is it really?That's what More Perfect Union is
looking into. They think it'smore about companies making a ton
of money than it is aboutactually taking care of people. And
specifically at this company,CVS Caremark, a giant pharmacy company.
(01:23):
Yeah, they are everywhere.
The Biden administrationstarted cracking down on fraud within
the system. And guess whathappened? CVS's profits took a big
hit.
That's interesting.
Very interesting. Maybe alittle too interesting. So it's like
they were betting on a systemthat only works if you bend the rules
a little bit. And speaking ofcvs, let's zoom in on what's going
(01:46):
on inside their actual stores.Picture this. You're a pharmacist,
right? You're totally stressedout, totally overworked, and you're
like, I'm afraid I'm going tokill someone. Because you're so overworked.
Oh, yeah. And that's not amade up scenario. That's for More
Perfect Union. They found thatthis is a real problem, that pharmacists
(02:09):
at CVS are under so muchpressure, they're worried about making
mistakes.
That's scary, right?
An irony. CVS is like thismega healthcare company, but their
own employees are oftenstruggling to afford health care.
Some of them are even onpublic assistance. It's like Walmart,
the richest company, buteveryone's on welfare.
Wow.
(02:30):
It's like they can't even takecare of their own people. What does
that say about the whole system?
Okay, ready for a curveball.Remember a hurricane, Helen, right?
Yeah. 24.
Well, it causes nationwideshortage of IV bags. Turns out almost
all of them from one company,Baxter International. And the hurricane
hit their frame main facility.
(02:51):
Well, the threat of a longterm shortage did prompt the administration
to invoke the DefenseProduction act to help speed up recovery
efforts and get that NorthCove plant back up and running. In
addition to canceling orpostponing elective surgical procedures.
You know, Hoffman hospitalsare also turning to alternatives
(03:14):
for hydration like hydrationtablets and Gatorade. And they're
prioritizing IV fluids for themost acute patients and the most
vulnerable, like children.Some hospitals are even beginning
to produce their ownsolutions. The FDA did release new
guidance that eases up onrules regarding the compounding of
(03:35):
IV solutions. And that's tomake it easier for hospitals and
other facilities to do thisduring the the shortage period.
So suddenly hospitals are allover looking like crap, like we need
IV bags. It's like finding outyour whole city relies on one grocery
store for milk and it's justclosed down.
Wow. You know, actually Iheard about that IV shortage. That's
(03:58):
exactly the point More PerfectUnion is making. When one company
has that much control oversomething that's so important, it's
a recipe for disaster. Likewhat if you're in the hospital and
you need an iv? It's not aboutinconvenience. It's about life and
death. Right? Let's talkmedications. We've all heard about
(04:19):
oic, right? And this weightloss drug, miracle drug, does all
kinds of other things. It'sfeatured on Berlin Catwalks. It could
be a huge fight againstobesity. But there is a catch. It's
super expensive in the UnitedStates, like $936. And in other countries,
(04:41):
a tenth of that price.
Wow, that is something.
So this is a miracle cure orare we just getting ripped off?
Makes you wonder, if this drugis already so expensive, what does
it mean for the future ofhealthcare costs? Is anything going
to be affordable?
Right. Is it? And speaking ofthings that are maybe not so good
(05:04):
for us, let's talk aboutsugar. Everyone loves a little something
sweet. I do. But did you everthink about how Sweet Tooth was created?
Not really. When I'm eating adelicious pint of ice cream.
Yes, the Talenti ice cream.Not sponsored. Well, more Perfect
Union. I keep Saying MorePerfect Union because I want these
(05:26):
guys to get all the creditthey can. Looked into this. They
found that the Sugarassociation, there's a thing. The
Sugar association, theindustry group for sugar, has spent
decades trying to downplay howbad sugar is for us. They even paid
scientists to say that fat andcholesterol were the real problem
when it comes to heartdisease. It's like finding out your
(05:47):
favorite movie was actuallydirected by a super villain.
Wow. It makes you think howmuch of what we believe about food
is actually true and how muchof it is just marketing.
Exactly right. Because one dayeggs are bad, the next day they're
suddenly on a good list. Oneday coffee is going to kill you,
the next day it's actuallygood if you don't put any sugar in.
It all helps your Alzheimer's.It gets even crazier. You know lunchables,
(06:10):
right?
Oh yeah, those little snack packs.
Yeah. More Perfect Union foundthat they had lead in them and Craft,
the company that makes themkept selling them to schools for
that national school lunchprogram even after they knew about
the lead. Hey, took a massivepublic outcry, like 50 plus thousand
petitions to finally getpulled. It's like how do you even
(06:32):
find out that there's lead?And then how do you even galvanize
all these people to go and doa petition? I mean these are by definition
lower socioeconomic.Impoverished people were getting
free lunches, right?
Absolutely. It's so terriblethat they prioritize profits over
kids health like that.
Are we surprised? I guess wecan act surprised. Oh, it's pretty
(06:53):
messed up. But then we got bigpharma, so now the sugar looks like
nothing. And the big pharma iswaiting to help us get, get better
from all the sugar. Who can wetrust? Big pharma, Sugar, Lead. And
there's another player in allof this. Most ad lib moment, another
(07:15):
player in all of this thatmost people don't even want to know
about or don't know about. Andif they do, they don't want to know
about.
Let me say that again.McKinsey's biggest money earner is
our health care system. Andit's also where they've done some
of the most damage. In 2018,McKinsey was contracted with the
nonprofit hospital ProvidenceMedical to design a program to get
(07:37):
more patients to pay theirmedical bills.
Providence Hospital is a taxexempt hospital. They're required
to provide free care to poorpeople, people. And they were looking
for any way to cut costs.McKinsey and Company, I mean many
who Are listening to this, aregoing to be shocked that McKinsey
and company is coming up onthis podcast as a hidden influencer.
(07:58):
Ultimately, we need tountangle the dependency on consulting
McKinsey has fostered in our government.
Things are set up in such away where if you just like cut.
Off the consulting firms, Idon't think you can build up that
capacity overnight.
They're like this superpowerful consulting firm. Right.
People clamor to get a role atMcKinsey & Co. And work their fingers
to the bone. And they do havea prestigious portfolio. It's like
(08:21):
the Deloitte of consulting inhealthcare, kind of a little bit
more niche. They advise prettymuch every major industry, including
health care.
Really? Yeah. I've never heardof them, actually.
Yeah, they're kind of behindthe scenes. The reporting from the
investigative journalistswhere we're following that, they're
part of the problem. Theybasically tell companies to make
(08:43):
as much money as possible,which, I mean, you know, to their
defense, if you're gettinghired to consult, you're probably
getting hired to consult totry to increase revenues, not decrease
them. But they tell thesecompanies how to make as much money
as possible, even if it meanscutting corners on safety, which
I have a problem with treatingtheir employers badly and charging
(09:05):
consumers more.
Wow, that's really terrible.And it's almost like they're the
masterminds behind all the scams.
Yes. And the legal counsel ofthe show does want us to point out
that we are following thereporting from More Perfect union.
As to McKinsey & Co. And theirbehind the scenes influence, they
are pretty much part of theproblem because they perpetuate this
(09:32):
money making craze inhealthcare and they're almost like
the puppet masters pullingstrings. If I could get visual with
you, it's not just healthcare.They're everywhere. But okay, let's
stick with healthcare for nowbecause healthcare is a touchy and
important issue. What happenswhen you need to go to the emergency
(09:52):
room? You know you're havingan emergency, you're freaking out.
Well, increasingly thoseemergency rooms are being taken over
by something called privateequity firms. Private equity firms.
And these are essentiallylarge buckets of money. They're not
venture capitalists becauseventure capitalists typically invest
(10:13):
earlier on. Private equitycomes in and provides, quote, growth
capital. They have all kindsof nice ways of saying what they're
doing. More Perfect Union saysthat that's not good news for patients.
Think about it. Your hot. Youremergency room is owned by a firm
that manages private equity,meaning longer wait times Higher
bills and most likely worst care.
(10:38):
And why is that?
Well, because private equityfirms, their whole thing is about
making money. It's in the nameprivate equity. So that they come
in, they cut costs, theysqueeze every penny out of the system,
and guess who suffers? It'slike healthcare is becoming discino,
where you're gambling withyour health and your finances. And
speaking of finances, we gotto talk about prescription drug prices.
(11:02):
They're insane in the USAright now.
Yes, they're way outrageous, honestly.
But do you know why? I don'trole of pharmacy benefit managers.
That's why. Well, part of theproblem is these things called pharmacy
benefit manager, pbm, damn it.Something like this. So people could
(11:23):
twist their tongues whenthey're talking about these middlemen
in the drug supply chain.
What do they do?
Yeah, that is one of the mostcommon questions. Everyone says,
what is a pbm? They've neverheard of a pharmacy benefit manager.
And say, I've never talked toa pharmacy benefit manager is because
they are the middleman.They're the one in between. They're
between the drug companies,the insurance companies, the pharmacists
(11:45):
and the patients. They'refacilitating the price negotiation,
but they're actually the onesactually setting the formulary. They
determine often if you get ageneric drug, a biosimilar or a brand
drug, what that cost is.
And more. Perfect Union saysthey're basically running a legal
bribery scheme that drives upprices for everyone. Well, part of
(12:06):
the problem is these thingscalled pharmacy benefit managers,
or PBMs. They sound innocent,but they're these middlemen in the
drug supply chain. And more.Perfect Union says they're basically
running a legal bribery schemethat drives up prices for everyone.
This whole tangled web, andit's hard to tell who's benefiting,
who's getting screwed. It'sprobably by design, isn't it?
(12:28):
It's like the more you learnabout this stuff, the more confusing
it gets.
Exactly.
Yeah. That's a whole nother issue.
But okay, before we wrap upthis part, we've got to talk about
one final example of how thehealth system seems designed to just
take all of our money and justtake it away, not even give it back.
So I want to talk about thecase of. Let's. Let's both talk about
(12:50):
the case of Kiturada andhealthcare costs. Key to Ruda, which
is a cancer drug, costs anunbelievable $200,000.
How could anyone afford that?
That's the point. And here'sthe kicker. It was developed using
taxpayer dollars. So we allhelp Pay for it. This is a classic
story. We all help pay for itand now we can't even afford it.
(13:13):
The company that makes KitrudaMerck is basically profiting off
a drug we all funded. And nowmy blood pressure is changing. How
many need Merck medication?And get this, the government could
actually lower the price bytaking back the patent. But they
haven't. I wonder like who,who's benefit? Someone's benefiting
from it.
(13:33):
Yeah, that's just. That's justso wrong that they're doing that.
Honestly, it's a prime exampleof how the system seems to be rigged
against us, the regularpeople. And we're not even that regular.
At least we know some of thisstuff, right? Those that don't know
it all. But hey, don't worry,it's not all doom and gloom. We're
going to dive deeper into someof these issues and talk about what
you could do to fight back.That's the only part that's not doom
(13:56):
and gloom. You can fight back.
No, yeah, that would be great.Just to shed some light on this very,
you know, morbid topics.
Why? Because it's depressingOdin and me. I know, right? But stick
with us. There is hope. We'refirst going to depress you and then
give you hope. Just likepharma. So we've uncovered some pretty
shady stuff happening inhealthcare. And we'll talk about
(14:18):
healthcare. I want to circleback to Medicare Advantage for a
minute. You know that programthat's supposed to be cheaper and
better than traditionalMedicare? I feel like there's something
we're missing here.
You're right. There's a lotmore to the story. Remember how More
Perfect Union pointed out thatMedicare Advantage plus seems to
attract healthier patients?That's no accident. These companies
have figured out how to cherrypick the people who are less likely
(14:40):
to need expensive care,leaving traditional Medicare to cover
the folks with more complexmedical needs.
I love your word choice cherrypick because this reminds me of an
actual ban on cherry pickingquotes, which is a thing where not
too long ago MedicareAdvantage plans would set up their
(15:02):
Medicare 101 sessions toentice these patients to enroll in
their insurance companies. Andthat would select second floor of
a two or more story buildingwithout an elevator. So if the patients
couldn't get up there, thenthey were not healthy enough. Oh,
to be. Yeah. So essentiallythey were cherry picking by choosing
spaces that disabled peoplewho presumably cost more could not
(15:26):
access anyway to reach theirmarketing material. So it's kind
of like an insurance Companysetting up a buffet and only inviting
the people who eat salad.
Ah. And they make it even moreenticing with all those extra perks
and benefits. A lot of theseperks might not actually be worth
it in the long run. It's allabout making Medicare Advantage look
(15:47):
more attractive, even if itmeans leaving the most vulnerable
person behind.
I mean, if you notice thoseMedicare Advantage ads, they literally
have like the Medicare eagle,which isn't even a thing. I think
it's like on your originalMedicare card, there's like a little
eagle or something. They makeit look all official, you know, like
this is coming. They, they putall the senior citizens favorite
(16:08):
people on and it's all about.All about leaving the vulnerable
people behind. Because thoseAdvantage plans, Medicare Advantage
companies don't want you toutilize their services. Right. That
makes the whole CVS situationeven more suspicious. When the government
cracked down on fraud inMedicare Advantage, CVS wasn't very
happy about it. Realized CVShas only been in the insurance business
(16:32):
for just a number of smallnumber of years. I mean, they were.
They bought Aetna and suddenlycvs, Aetna is in Medicare Advantage.
Seems like their wholebusiness model relied on this system
that wasn't exactly playing bythe rules.
And that brings us back to thecore issue. The healthcare system
is designed to prioritizeprofit over people. Whether it's
(16:53):
insurance companies,pharmaceutical companies who seem
innocent, like lunchboxsnacks, even the focus seems to be
on making money. Even it comesat the expense of.
Our health or glamorous likeMacKenzie and company. Speaking of
which, let's go back to the IVbag shortage caused by Hurricane
Helene. It's crazy to thinkthat one company, Baxter International,
(17:18):
had so much control oversomething as basic as IV bags. It's
like they were holding theentire health system hostage. People
at hospitals had to ration IVbags. It was like a big thing.
Oh, wow.
I bet you didn't see that onPITS or House MD or whichever medical
trauma people are watching more.
Perfect Union found out thatBaxter has a bit of a reputation
for doing that kind of thing.They've been accused of price gouging
(17:41):
in the past, taking advantageof their dominant position to inflate
prices. So it's not just aboutthe hurricane. It's about a company
that seems to prioritizeprofits over patients.
Reporting highlights howlobbying and political influence
play a huge role in shapingthe healthcare industry. It's pretty
simple if you think about it.You send a nice lobbyist or few up
(18:02):
to Washington, day wine anddine, it's simple. The incentives
align very quickly. We aretalking about millions of dollars.
Not. That's anunderestimation. Billions of dollars
spent to influence politiciansand block regulations that might
threaten corporate profits.
UnitedHealth Group's chiefexecutive bragged about how the Biden
(18:24):
administration'sineffectiveness in cracking down
on over billing in MedicareAdvantage has led to record profits.
So the CEO Andrew Witty, toldinvestors that he appreciates the
White House's decision to slowthe implementation of its Medicare
Advantage reforms, which wouldprevent companies like UnitedHealth
(18:47):
from potentially over billingand stealing from United States taxpayers.
It's a giant game of chess.But the average person isn't even
allowed on the board. We'rejust playing pawns in a system designed
to benefit the powerful andthe wealthy.
Yes. Not even allowed to playon the board.
Crazy.
Which brings us back toMcKenzie and co, those behind the
(19:10):
scene consultants who seem tobe whispering in the ears of everyone
in power. What are youwhispering? What exactly are you
doing that's so shady?
Yeah, and the articledescribes them as an ultimate profit
whisperers. They advisecompanies on how to squeeze every
last dollar out of the system,even if it means cutting corners,
exploiting workers and drivingup prices for customers.
(19:33):
It's like they figured out thesecret formula for corporate greed
and they're selling it to thehighest bidder.
And the scary part is thatthey operate in the shadows. Most
people have no idea who theyare or the extent of their influence.
They're like the puppetmasters behind the curtain shaping
the entire healthcarelandscape to benefit a select few.
(19:55):
As I continue to publiclydisqualify myself from ever working
with McKenzie, it makes youwonder if there's anyone looking
out for the interest ofpatients and everyday people in this
whole mess.
That's why it's important tobe aware what's going on and to speak
up honestly. We just can't letcorporations dictate how our healthcare
system operates.
You know, being aware is onething. Speaking up is another. Doing
(20:18):
those two things at once isyet a completely different other
aspect. Now, if you'reemployed by one of these corporations
or if you have reasons to beconcerned of retribution or retaliation,
you're going to sit there veryquietly and not speak, even if you're
aware. So the question hereis, what can we actually do? It feels
(20:42):
like we're against these giantpowerful forces that don't want us
at the board.
Exactly. Remember that evensmall actions can honestly make a
difference. Isn't just aboutexposing problems. It's about empowering
people to take Action.
Well, now I'm so empowered Icould barely stand. And what are
some practical things ourlisteners can do to fight back against
(21:05):
this massive depressivedifferent formation we've shared
with them?
I'm glad you asked. First,let's stay informed. Keep learning
about these issues, not justfrom perfect union, but from other
sources too. The more youunderstand how the system works,
the better equipped you'll beto advocate for change.
That sounds like a lot ofenergy. So knowledge is power, but
(21:28):
what about actually doing something?
Well, what are the mostpowerful tools you have? Get ready
for this is your voice.Contact your elected officials. Let
them know you care abouthealthcare reform and that you want
them to support policies thatbenefit patients, not just corporations.
(21:49):
People underestimate how muchpower a phone call or email to a
rep can have. Now, as I, as I,as I admittedly read that part of
the script, I mean, afterminutes and minutes and minutes of
saying the world's biggestcompanies and the consultants are
all out to get you, we'retelling people how much a phone call
(22:09):
or email to a rep can have.It's like that old saying, the squeaky
wheel gets the grease. Thatgives me hope because it's true.
If enough people make noise,our elected officials will have to
listen.
Exactly. And you also look foropportunities to get involved in
your community. Are therelocal organizations fighting for
healthcare justice? Thereprobably are. You can volunteer your
(22:31):
time, donate if you can, orsimply spread the word.
You know what I want to do,Odin? Actually, since we're talking
about calling electedofficials, we should bring out and
expose folks from both partieswho have conspired to bring us to
this point where we cannotafford anything, really. And everywhere
(22:55):
you turn, there's someconspiracy, some Wall street conspiracy.
Whether It's CVS or McKenzieor whatever, both sides have had
this issue exasperated. So,elected official, no, no, it's not
the other side. It's the onesthat you voted for. It's the ones
that I voted for. I mean, it'skind of hard because you only have
so many choices. And they'reall conspiring. Why? Because as Odin
(23:18):
said earlier, they're sittingthere with lobbyists at beautiful
steakhouses, at these dinners.There's all this conspiracy going
on. And think about the costof the conspiracy versus the gain
of the prophet. It'smonumental. Monumental, Absolutely.
Collective action is keythere. Strength in numbers. Persistence
(23:40):
pays off sometimes. It reallydoes. Persistence does pay off. It
takes a village to take down agiant corporation.
That's a great way to put it.
And remember, community therehas to be community.
I mean, there's always LosAngeles in New York.
Is there a community? And it'sno longer in line with humanity.
(24:01):
Yeah, it does come to thequestion sometimes, right? Like,
are you willing to sellyourself out or are you willing to
continue? You know, depends onthe pricing. Depends on the pricing.
Depends on the pricing.
Yeah, you know, it's, it'stough. Especially whenever obviously
some people have like thesemorals and want to keep going, but
then, you know, they need topay rent.
(24:23):
There's a way to, to make yourmorals work. Like, you don't need
to be immoral to make money inhealth care. Like, there is money
already in healthcare to bemade. I guess maybe where these guys
are, they're the big dogs.They just suck money out of the system
and make it generallyavailable in healthcare for guys
like us to go and, you know,say, okay, move a little bit of this
(24:46):
here. Give it to the doctor,not the hospital. Move a little bit
here, move a little bit there.Let's, let's keep that note then
as we wrap up this. We'vespent all this time doing this deep
dive using a lot of thereporting from More Perfect Union,
follow their material. Andwe've seen through our own life experience
(25:10):
some of this manifesting.We've seen how corporations, the
kind of that put profits aheadof people, have been just getting
bigger and bigger and biggerand bigger. Now they're calling them
too big to feel. Yeah, systemseems kind of rigged, you know, it
(25:31):
really does for the peoplewith all the power and money. The
rest of us are kind of justlike stuck paying for it all.
So crazy, right?
It really is. But I'mwondering, like, okay, what can we
actually do about it?
That's the question, right?You hear all this stuff, you're like,
well, great, now what? Butactually More Perfect Union, they
(25:52):
just don't leave us hanging.They give us some ideas, some actual.
Steps we can take, includingsubscribing to this show, which doesn't
exactly come from More PerfectUnion, but I'm sure the sentiments
aligned. Let's. So let's startwith practical step number two, if
that's step number one.
So, yeah, so step number twois to always start with information,
right? So you're already doingthat, listening to this deep dive.
(26:14):
The more that you understand,the better you can spot ways to fight
back.
Makes sense. But likeinformation without action is also
useless, you guys.
Very true. So this is whereyour voice comes in. You have power.
Remember that. You're just nota consumer in the system. You're
a citizen. So talk to yourelected officials, all of them, local,
state, federal. Let them knowthat the health care reform that
(26:36):
is important to you and tellthem that you want to support policies
that help patients, not justbig companies.
I think we have to innovatehow we reach out to these elected
officials.
Just remember, you have power.You have. You might feel small, but
you're not powerless. Yourvoice matters. What you do matters.
And if we all work together,we can change this. We can make healthc
(26:57):
care better for everybody.
And remember, you don't haveto be an expert or a politician to
make a difference. Stayinformed, talk to people, speak up
for what you believe in. Everylittle bit helps. And no, we're not
asking for your money. We'reasking for your vigor, your energy
(27:17):
that wraps up this deep diveinto the healthcare system. Conspiracy,
inspired and as exposed bymore the guys at More Perfect Union.
They're doing such importantwork. So go check out their website
and their material. And to allof those listeners out there, remember,
you have the power to changethings. So stay curious, important,
(27:41):
stay engaged, important, andstay hopeful. Most important.
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