September 25, 2023 • 35 mins
👋 Hey, it's Kris Krug! In this episode, I sit down with the legendary Kevin Kelley to discuss how AI is not just a tool, but a mindset that can redefine your creative and professional world.
From optimizing workflows to pushing the boundaries of what's possible, we dive deep into the evolving relationship between AI and creativity.
Don't miss out on the actionable insights and game-changing strategies we share. Subscribe now and join us on this AI-driven journey! 👇
🔗 Links Mentioned:
Descript: [https://www.descript.com/]
Dictate: [https://dictate.app/]
Eleven: [https://www.eleven.photo/]
Poe: [https://www.poetassist.com/]
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's up internet, it's Chris Krug.
(00:01):
I'm checking in from Vancouver and I got my buddy, Kevin Kelly with me here.
Say what's up, Kevin.
Hi, Chris.
I want to catch.
Kevin's an old photographer, buddy of mine.
We met at Holly Hawk on Cortez Island back in the day and he's got
quite an interesting claim to fame.
He wrote a book called Home Planet, or I should say maybe curated and
(00:22):
published a book called Home Planet in the seventies.
Kevin.
Not that bad.
88, later part of 88.
With a bunch of original photos from space of earth, if taken by NASA and
by the Soviet Cosmo program and the forward was written by Jacques Cousteau.
(00:42):
Yeah.
Tell us a little about that, Kevin.
It was the most beautiful pictures of the earth from space, accompanied by
quotations from astronauts and cosmonauts reflecting in about what it meant to be
human and experience the earth and the moon space from space.
And one of the things I've always been intrigued about your project, sorry to
(01:06):
cut you off, is like the open source nature of it.
So you didn't make those photos, did you?
I went to NASA.
I had a notion they were there.
I didn't even know for sure they were there.
And it's a long story about that.
But anyway, yeah, I looked through every hand held picture out the window taken
by astronauts and astronauts, were the first Mercury flight all the way
(01:31):
past the book to 1999.
And I looked through every one of those and curated them down to about 3000
that I thought were pretty good, would be good.
And I had to cut those down to 150.
And it was the biggest co-publication between a Soviet and American publisher.
(01:52):
And we ended up printing books in 11 languages simultaneously by one printer
in Italy and the quotes were accompanied by, the quotes were in the native language
of the flyer if it was different than the language of the edition.
It's amazing really.
These photos are available to you because they were made with taxpayer dollars?
(02:14):
They were hard to get.
You go, the only picture back then was the full moon, the full earth picture,
the Apollo picture, and so nobody's seen them.
Most people hadn't seen any of these.
And I was, I was editing with, with the couple of women who were helping,
we were editing them and going through them.
And somebody said in the room, it sounds like you guys are having an orgy in there.
(02:37):
Cause everybody was going, Oh my God.
Oh, stuff.
And it was just, they're just awesome.
They're just absolutely awesome.
Those things.
We put them in a big coffee table book and custodial forage on the
New York Times bestseller list for eight weeks or something.
Yeah.
When I tell your story, like almost everybody is familiar with the cover of
(02:58):
that book and the iconic photos that you published there.
It was quite a bit without noetic Institute and it was the astronauts
and the associated space explorers.
It was really done under their aegis.
I took the idea to them.
They already had an idea and we worked together.
Anyway, enough of that.
What brings us here together today is we've been on a bit of a exploration together.
(03:19):
You and I have been having some chats about AI and sticking them on the
internet and folks been following those along and figuring out what we're up to.
And stuff.
And so I guess I'll just turn it over to you at this point, man.
When we, thank you, Chris, when we talked last, he knew we're just in my, my view,
we're just starting to use AI for your business.
(03:42):
And you were telling us how, only me, how you were using it to edit stuff,
to search for stuff, to give you advice on how to look at all your.
I think doing life commercially, maybe personally too, and how to turn it
into a kind of a business plan and how to edit that.
And now it's been, like I say, maybe five months, however long it's been.
(04:06):
One hell.
How was that evolved?
What you were just starting that must, it must be changing.
You're probably using AI a ton of ways now.
And I'm interested in that progression.
What have you done and how are you using it?
How did you go, Oh, that's not so great.
Maybe I should do it this way.
What do you look, what are you learning there?
How are you using it?
Mostly I'd like to get in later on and maybe another call about show
(04:28):
us how are you using it?
Sure.
Okay.
Sure.
You're right, man.
It's been moving at like a breakneck speed since we talked last.
And I've definitely been like in the trenches, so to speak, just running
alongside all these different AI projects and trying to figure out what they're all
about and, and share that with the world.
And so, yeah, man, I'm using it all the time, every day now.
(04:51):
I've definitely been working on developing what I call like an AI mindset.
So it's like more than just the particular tools that I use or the
techniques that I use, but I've been trying to think about how I can best
integrate AI into my creative processes and my business processes and stuff.
And so I've been really overhauling everything.
(05:12):
I use it all day long.
Every day now for a while, I was doing some business coaching
with my friends businesses.
I developed a bit of a methodology where I would ask people to answer some
questions into their audio recorder on their phone, and I would transcribe
those and start to feed those into the AI and make some sense out of them.
(05:34):
And then return those recommendations back to them in the form of reports
and stuff, and I've done that for myself.
So a little bit more about that, what that means.
So you got you, you auto transcribe them and then you and then AI would come back
and say, this is the way they can organize their material as a business,
as a business approach.
Yeah, I might say.
(05:56):
Something like, Hey, Kevin, tell me about your photography career
and how you envision it moving forward.
I might ask you to record a 10 minute audio recording about that.
Then I may use that transcription from that audio recording to go into
ChatGPT or one of the other models and say, dear ChatGPT, you are a business
(06:18):
consultant and life coach.
My friend is looking to reinvent himself as we move forward into a
new age of digital photography.
Read this transcript, make detailed notes, pull out the best quotes and
give me a summary of what he has to say.
And so it'll analyze that, return all those things I asked it to.
(06:39):
And then we have some information that we can start making sense of.
I can share that with you and we can workshop it together.
And then we can take it to the next level and say, maybe I'll have you make
three different recordings, three different topics.
I've got these three different summaries and outlines, and then I might feed
those outlines back into the AI and say, all right, based on our discussions
with Kevin, use this information to generate new, new information.
(07:04):
And then we can create new about pages, service pages and contact pages for his
website or something like that and have it actually output the text.
And one thing that people have been talking a lot about lately is the way
that AI kind of writes like bullshit gobbledygook.
A lot of times you can tell that something's written by AI by the way
(07:28):
that it talks and stuff.
And so I've been trying to hack around that and make it so you can't.
It's uniquely my voice that it sounds like me as the best I can.
And so I've developed a couple of ways of doing that.
I've written a personal style guide.
I fed the AIs like, I don't know, 50 pages of my writings and had it build a writing
(07:48):
style guide based on my previous writing.
So now when I'm asking AI to write stuff for me, the first thing I feed it is my
style guide so it knows how I write and it knows how I speak from the outset.
I took that concept and I went a little further and I also had to develop a
perspectives and worldviews document.
I talked to it about what I think and what I feel and my thoughts.
(08:11):
And I also fed it a bunch of stuff from the past and I had it generate a document
that talks a little bit about how I see things, my philosophy, my core principles
and my values.
And so anytime I'm starting a new writing project with AI these days, I drop in my
style guide, I drop in my values document, and then I start to ask it for information.
(08:33):
And AI helped you refine and develop your styles guide and your personal values
guide as well?
Yeah, it's based on my original content.
It's based on if I talk, if I give a one hour keynote and that is recorded on
YouTube and I can get a transcription out of that, I can feed it.
I can feed that keynote transcript into the AI and I can say, based on how I talk
(08:54):
in this video, write me a writing style guide or based on what you hear in this
video, determine my values, objectives and purpose.
How well does it do that in your view?
Better than I could in five minutes.
It gets it about 90% accurate or maybe even better accurate enough that it's
definitely usable and I can just tweak it.
(09:14):
It's very accurate.
One of the things that's best at is like finding patterns in large blocks of text.
Like this week at work, I used it for an exercise where we were doing a branding
exercise and everyone on the team came up with five brand values, things they thought
the voice of our brand was and everyone's words were different.
We have 10 people, each one has five different values.
(09:36):
There's some overlap and to really coordinate and make sense of those things
is a hard thing for a human to do, but it's amazing when I fed everyone's
different values into the AIs and then asked it to make sense of the overlaps
and the discrepancies between those two things, it's really good at comparing
stuff and co-allating information.
(10:01):
It's quite incredible how accurate it is.
That's interesting.
Years ago, I've had broken up with somebody.
I just thought, I'll never meet anybody like that again.
My dating life is over when I got this invite from eHarmony and I thought,
all right, show me.
All right, we'll see.
So it took something like two hours to fill this thing out.
(10:23):
Are you the more like this or more like this?
And when I do those things, I go, yeah, I'm like that, but then I'm like that.
And I think the profile it made for me was, yeah, it sounds like it's excellent.
It's sorting through stuff like that.
It's really good.
And the more you tune it and tweak it, the better it will get.
(10:44):
The more original content that you can feed it, the better off you are.
And the difference in the writing outputs between just asking it to write you
something and asking it to write you something with your style guide and
perspective worldview fed into it, the results are completely different.
It's got my voice nailed.
Sometimes it's a little hyperbolic like it.
It takes my idioms and idiosyncrasies and takes them to an extreme.
(11:08):
But depending on the audience I'm writing for, I can always tone it down,
make it a little more straightforward, formalize my language.
And it's pretty easy to nudge it in the right direction.
I've got a couple of friends who I'm going to introduce to this on how,
how much time and effort and work does it take?
A lot less than it would if you were going to do this stuff on your own.
(11:30):
But it empowers me to do things I wouldn't have done otherwise, man.
In the last five months, I have overhauled like everything.
I've started a podcast, a video blog, an email newsletter.
I've started blogging again.
Like it's 2005 written new bios, short form and long form bios.
I built a new services page from my website.
(11:51):
It's not that it just makes things more efficient.
It's that it allows me to do stuff that I hadn't been doing before.
And that feels like creativity to me.
It feels like if I'm one of my friends listening to this and going,
how do I do this?
Is it something I can download and do, or do I have to go read all this stuff?
That Chris did and invent all these things and write all the code?
(12:14):
Was there plug and play or?
A great place for people to start if they're interested in more of the
personal branding area is like just take your bio from your about page
and copy it in GPT and say, update my bio for me and then paste the bio in
and see what it comes back with or say, here's my long form bio, write a short
(12:34):
form one or say, here's a short form bio, write a long form one.
And you'll start to get an idea based on its outputs, what it's capable of.
You know, you could say, write a formal version of this or write it as a,
here's my bio, write a feature length biography article about me.
(12:55):
And then you can start there to, you're more familiar with your own body of
work than you are almost anything else.
So it's a great place to test the waters with the AI, but I would just start
cutting, pasting stuff into it and, and see what you get back.
You have to do a show until some point on that.
I don't think this goal, how do you train?
Tell me how you're getting your transcriptions.
(13:17):
I'm doing them a couple of ways.
I've downloaded the chat GPT iPhone app, which is incredible.
It's literally just a prompt in a browser window and it uses the microphone.
So I can literally like talk to it.
Hey, chat GPT, I'm here on doing a podcast with my buddy, Kevin Kelly.
(13:40):
And he wants me to tell him more about the best practices when it comes to
dictating your phone to AI and it will return some results.
I got put my glasses on here.
I use auto dictate a lot on the iPhone and it sucks.
What's the name of that program?
(14:03):
The voice recorder app on phones now does auto transcription.
So I just use the voice memo app.
I push the big red button, I talk at it.
And when it's done, there's a transcription there waiting for me.
And then all these tools are integrating transcription services.
One of the things AI is the best at, whether it's like YouTube, YouTube,
(14:24):
or Otter AI or man, the podcasting tool I'm using these days, Kevin,
it would really blow your mind.
It's called Descript.
And okay, so I put my video in or I put my audio file in and boom,
it generates a text based transcript.
How accurate is that?
Dude, it's fucking accurate, man.
It's 99% accurate.
(14:44):
And it says right at the top, would you like me to remove filler words?
And you're like, yeah. And so it goes through and it says, the filler words I usually look for are umms,
butts and uhs or something like that.
What other filler words would you like me to add?
And I have a couple.
I say the word like all the time.
I say the word just.
(15:06):
I minimize things by putting the adjective little,
check out this little project I'm involved with and stuff like that.
So anyway, I put these words in and boom, it's like,
I'm going to add a little bit of filler words.
I put these words in and boom, it goes through the whole hour long podcast,
identifies those words and removes them.
And then it shows you what you're going to remove.
(15:30):
Yeah, but it shows you like in the word document form, in the transcript form,
it highlights all the umms in the document,
but then it goes back to the audio and the video file and removes it from the video and from the audio and splices together.
So you have like seamless.
Oh, man.
Dude, Kevin, it's that sound though when you take the because you got a flow and you don't see where it's man.
(15:52):
It sounds like an interview on 60 minutes.
You don't realize that everything you watch on TV,
everything you've ever ingested via the mainstream media is super chopped up and cut together and edited, man.
It's very you never see raw footage.
This is audio, not video. Right.
It's audio. It's audio and video, Kevin.
But you're sitting there talking and gesturing and you take out.
(16:16):
Fuck. And then my hand went like that.
Does it patch that stuff in a way that doesn't show?
OK, so if you're making big gestures.
It could jump from a gesture frame to a non gesture frame.
But in terms of all the mouth stuff in your face,
it splices them together so you don't notice the cuts and the edits.
(16:39):
And so in normal filmmaking, what you would do if I was waving my hands around
and then you cut out a swear word and it jumped to me without my hands moving around,
you would just fill that one cut with a piece of B roll.
You would just take one shot of something that's not my face.
You'd cut to that for a second and then you cut back or whatever to hide it.
But you would you don't need to do that, man.
It's a remarkable.
(17:00):
Doing this. Yeah, dude.
And I can't. The script, it's called.
And I the way I've been editing my pocket,
I spent an hour and a half in the bathtub this morning,
editing a recent podcast, and I literally go through the text based transcription
and start to delete and edit the parts I don't want.
And then, you know what else I do, Kev?
(17:21):
Remember, I told you I was building a voice clone audio model.
My voice clone has gotten pretty good.
So not only can I remove.
Via a text based transcript, the parts of the audio video that I want out,
but then I can insert things that I didn't actually even say
into the audio using my voice clone.
So I can literally type a transition and up next we have.
(17:45):
And it will in my voice clone model output a little audio file that says
and next we have and then it will seamlessly cut that into my interview
with you that I have there or something like that.
And you can't tell the difference between the part that's my voice and not my voice.
What's the purpose?
What's to use? What do you want a voice clone for?
What's that about?
(18:06):
Like I just said, I can use it in the audio editing process
to string together things I've said
with a transition of something that I didn't actually say.
It's very useful when the audio editing process to be able to make yourself
say something that you didn't actually say.
(18:27):
You left out the podcast or something.
You go, damn, I should have said that and I didn't say it.
The needed amplification, that kind of thing.
Yeah, that's right.
Or even just little words here and there as I'm deleting sections
and making this a tight edit, sometimes like the context or the tone is just
if I had one word in there, like an and or a the or whatever,
(18:48):
the sentence would make more sense.
And so I can literally just type T H E.
And in my voice, a the will be inserted into that string.
And it's it's really incredible.
And then I can use it for longer form stuff, too.
If I wanted to, I could type out a three paragraph.
Intro and have my voice clone read that intro.
(19:09):
But I found it would be better for myself to just read it in my real voice
and then to supplement it with the voice clone in places that it's missing.
And the value of the voice clone is it's will, in theory,
will be easier to insert these things and you going back in
(19:30):
and speaking them and inserting them that way.
Yeah, there's some things that it just doesn't make sense to make a recording of.
Yeah, there's all sorts.
Yeah, there's all sorts of ways to use the audio clone in audio and podcast editing.
Is it only for editing?
I had a sense that you had multiple uses for this.
(19:52):
I do have multiple uses.
I was like having chat GPT generate poetry and I was reading,
having my voice clone read that poetry in my voice.
But that was mostly as a way to test the model to see how close it was getting to
being able to accurately imitate my voice or whatever.
But yeah, dude, I could like programmatically have chat GPT or AI in general
(20:17):
harvest me all the best photography headlines of the day.
Feed that via text into my voice clone,
have my voice clone read those headlines as news stories.
And then publish that as a podcast without any human involvement if I wanted to.
Maybe if you were dating somebody, you could maybe get it
to make you sound like Barry White.
(20:39):
Yeah, you absolutely could.
This tool that I use is called Eleven Labs,
and I highly recommend you checking it out.
It's very fascinating.
Not only can you use your own voice, but people like me can submit my voice
to the, I don't know, voice library or whatever.
And so you can use lots of other people's voices, too.
They got everything from like thug to valley girl.
(21:00):
They just download these different voices and you could have a what sounds
like a podcast with multiple hosts on it, and it could all just be robots.
So somebody.
I come along, it's been five months, you've got all this work.
We've done five months to be in this stuff.
(21:21):
You've been learning, practice, practicing and playing with it.
Would it take me how much work and effort would it take me to get
at least fairly functional?
I got a friend who's.
My friends are really accomplished.
Like Dugan knew we were talking about.
Yeah, he's just really dive into this stuff.
(21:42):
Now there will it take him just a couple of weeks to get going,
get kind of caught up with where you are.
Is it going to take them six months like you or?
OK, so it's like a two fold answer.
It's so exciting right now.
Because these tools are becoming more and more easy to use and like
more and more democratized.
They're showing up in Gmail and they're showing up in like the Microsoft
(22:02):
search engine.
These companies are making really big moves to integrate these new
AI tools into their offerings.
Some people would say too big of moves.
They're moving too quickly and maybe not thinking things all the way through.
But so.
In terms of the tools, they're getting more powerful and easier to use than ever.
So in some ways you didn't necessarily miss the boat by not being into it six
(22:25):
months ago.
However.
More than the tools and the techniques is really about developing this AI mindset,
understanding how you can use this stuff and what it's good at and what it's not
good at.
And I do think that takes some time to understand.
And while it can start giving you useful stuff right away, I'd encourage like
getting up to speed and run along inside of it as quickly as you can so that you
(22:49):
can really start to understand how it works.
And, and put it to work for you.
Okay.
Here's a workshop for you and or something.
What is what this talk about?
What is the AI mindset?
Sure.
Let's break down the AI mindset.
It's off the cuff.
(23:09):
Yeah.
I, it changes the way I interact with my machine, my computer, the internet and
people around me.
And so just understanding.
Like I said, like what it's good at and what it's not good at places to use it.
(23:30):
It really can.
So last weekend I was at a hackathon, a public transportation hackathon called
hack CT, and I was a mentor for the different groups there.
And I was the photographer of the event, but I got really inspired during the
opening remarks.
There was the guys from GitHub there, the CEO and the CEO, Thomas and Kyle.
(23:50):
And they were talking about how in the future, the short term future, like 80%
of all code and software is going to be written by AIs.
And I was like, well, that sounds pretty good to me because I'm not much of a
developer.
I, I am not much of a coder.
And they were talking about no code hacking and stuff.
And I was like, all right, the time is now.
So I use chat GPT's advanced code analyzer to build an AI powered chat bot
(24:16):
for public transportation.
It's built in HTML, but also in Python and in Flutter and socket OS.
And these are like highly technical programming languages that I have not
been trained on, but through working with chat GPT, I was able to generate
code, refactor the code.
(24:38):
There was even a point at which I was trying to debug the, the part of the
app that serves up the mobile version of the app.
And I was stuck and I asked someone for help and they said, oh, you chose
Dart, but if you would have chose react native, I could help you.
I'm sorry, I can't help you.
And I was like, all right, I should be able to get AI to figure out how to
(25:00):
refactor this whole code base and take the Dart part out and put the react
native part in.
And so I changed the app midstream, refactored all the code base,
integrated socket.io and react native.
And then Ari was able to help me do all the debugging or whatever.
And even to the point of asking AI how to use GitHub, how to commit my code
(25:22):
to the open source repository, how to use the chat GPT to document the code
that I wrote so that other developers that want to download it and use it,
have all the documentation in line there and stuff.
And so when I talk about developing an AI mindset, truly understanding the
(25:42):
possibilities that are there with it and starting to experiment with which of
those things feel good and are impactful in your life and in your career.
Okay.
That's a general oversensitivity.
Overview.
I'll use you.
Specifically, that's more depth in the AI mindset.
(26:06):
So as part of it is understanding what it can do for you.
And there are a lot of different facets of what it can do for you.
Sure.
Know what those are.
So you see the wheels turning.
Yeah.
Have you been tinkering with it much?
(26:27):
No, I haven't had.
I've been building, building your projects.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just, I, as a couple, you remember that time that you sent me a legal letter
one time and you needed a response to it or whatever.
And that was pretty interesting use of it.
I was able to turn some stuff around for you.
(26:48):
Yeah.
We used, I had, I was pissed off about something and was saying, hey, come on,
wait a minute and writing a letter.
I use it that way all the time, man.
Like sometimes people make, they write things on the internet that need response,
but I don't want to respond in kind.
And so I write my true response and then I take it into AI and I'm like, yo,
(27:11):
help me say this in a diplomatic and peaceful way.
And you said, just, I, and I, you said, yeah, I said, could you run this by
through a chat GDP, please.
And you said, and you said, yeah, yeah, just send to me.
I said, no, it's not ready yet.
I got to, it's got too much emotional stuff and it's not quite clear.
And now I'll do it.
Let me, I got to go through it again.
(27:32):
And, and you said, no, just send it, just send it.
And I sent it to you and it was fucking amazing.
Yeah, it's pretty incredible, man.
Yeah.
You said, it wasn't perfect because there was stuff I had in it that
were what wasn't clear and that stuff that wasn't clear, that was convoluted.
It didn't totally sort out, but it could have been easily edited and sorted.
(27:55):
But here's one that might help.
Okay.
I've been using this new tool for the last couple of weeks called Po, P O E.
And I've mentioned it on a couple of podcasts and stuff, but it's essentially
like a dashboard that allows you access into a bunch of different AIs.
Google has a model called Palm.
Meta and Facebook have a model called Llama.
(28:16):
There's chat GPT, which you've heard of.
There's Anthropics version of clode.
There's all these different AIs that are floating around.
There's mid journey and Dolly and all the rest.
Right.
So Po consolidates all those different AIs into one interface.
So I can ask the same question or prompt the AI with the same prompt
(28:36):
across multiple different models.
And I get different results based on the model.
And I can start to learn which ones are better at which things.
So chat GPT is really good at writing code, whereas clode is really good at creative writing.
The output of its creative writing is way better than chat GPT.
(29:01):
I have used the Po tool to start sending different information to different AIs
and start to get a good feel for what the different ones are good at.
Okay.
This is a good place to have yourself.
There's about four minutes.
Can you tell us, tell me about the server?
What's, what does your, what does your discord server, what's it there for?
(29:24):
What does, how many people you got on it now?
Discord is a lot like Slack.
It's just a place for teams or groups to share information and collaborate in chat.
It comes out of the video game world.
I said, when I was very first learning mid journey, which is a text image based AI,
where you type some words and it sends back pictures.
(29:47):
When I was first learning mid journey, it takes place on discord.
The only way to interact with it is on discord.
So I went to the mid journey discord and it's a chaotic space port of all sorts of.
There's literally thousands of people.
If you're not familiar with discord and you're not familiar with AI,
it's a very confusing place to be.
I decided, okay, I want to do this, but I want to do it in a semi-private environment.
(30:08):
So I created my own discord channel and I installed the mid journey bot on it.
And then I started to invite my friends to that place.
And instead of making images on the mid journey discord server, they can now make
it on mine and we can learn together or whatever.
And over time that has turned into a bit of a forum and chat room and collaboration
space that's got, I don't know, 250 people on it.
(30:31):
It's not super active.
There's not like a hundred messages a day.
Sometimes there's a hundred messages, but sometimes there's not.
And it's a mix of people sharing links and asking questions, making jokes, sharing
insights, and then there's another channel where people are generating images and
prompting mid journey, an events channel and like a place to an audio chat channel,
(30:52):
video chat channel place to hang out and talk to people, share and stuff.
And yeah, it's just a private little corner of the internet where a bunch of creative
geeks are hanging out and trying to figure this stuff out together.
It's very easy.
It's very easy to use.
I find they're just a couple sections.
Your airlock is where people talk.
(31:13):
It's a real pleasure to have you there, man.
If nothing else, it's like a choir of different voices and perspectives who
are all trying to crack the same nut together.
And yeah, it's, it feels supportive and empowering.
I like it.
I tell people my VCR is still blinking 12 midnight.
I'm not that digitally astute and it's quite easy to navigate that.
(31:36):
And there's, you put most of your podcasts on there and people put in other things
that they see and it's very easy to navigate through it and the really good learning
workplace.
I wish we could, I should buy the fucking pro version of zoom, Kevin, so we can
make these things a little bit longer.
I'm not really ready to go yet.
There you go.
Anyway, Chris, this is very interesting.
So where are you going now with this?
(31:57):
What's your learning curve?
You got the minute and 20 seconds or so.
Mine says I got three and a half, four and a half minutes.
Oh man.
I'm trying to learn better podcasts and video editing production techniques.
Mostly I've been doing these one take things or whatever, but I'm trying to
(32:17):
take it to the next level and make my podcast sound more like the stuff that
you are familiar with and stuff and yeah, I'm growing the email newsletter
and the discord channel, just immersing myself in the AIs and then trying to
share it with the world.
And the server or anything new going on there or anything real cutting edge on
(32:40):
AI that's exciting that you're going to change things for us.
Just yesterday, Microsoft announced that they're going to be doing a
Microsoft announced that they're going to relaunch Bing and relaunch everything
at Microsoft under this new AI, everything one ring to rule them all brand.
And that's pretty intriguing.
(33:02):
They're really taking it to the next level.
And I expect to see other people like Meta and Google do the same.
So there's been a lot of banter about that.
Oh, one, one big thing is open AI has their own text to image generation
model called Dolly and Dolly three is released and it's integrated into chat
(33:25):
GPT before you used to have to be had your text to text AIs and your text to
image AIs and they were separate.
And the one that was good was mid-journey and you had to go to discord to do it,
which was a pretty high barrier of entry to a lot of people.
That's not what it's like anymore.
Now you can do image prompting inside chat GPT natively with an even more
(33:48):
powerful model and it's going to make it very accessible to a lot of people.
It's going to be very interesting.
And the prompting is different too.
The vocabulary is different.
The way you talk to it to get what you want is quite a bit different.
And I'm experimenting with that right now as well.
And we prompt animation or just still images.
(34:10):
Yeah, you can prompt animation and video.
If you want to prompt moving images, check out runway.ai.
It's incredible, man.
You can take stills of anything, real things or AI generated things,
and you can turn them into clips.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
And there's other animation tools as well.
(34:32):
3d model.
You can make 3d models.
There's a new logo one that came out text to logo prompting.
Which one is that?
It's called idea ideogram.
I D E O G R A M dot AI.
Right.
Not only does it make, not only does it make the picture, but it puts words in
(34:52):
it too, which is something that mid journey and Dolly hadn't been proficient
at up until now.
Let's do this again.
We got any time left on this or.
No, not really.
I think we got about a minute here.
And yeah, man, I'm always happy to talk to you about this stuff.
I love sharing it with the world and I appreciate you bringing all your
friends on into the server and being a Sentinel and translating all this
(35:16):
geeky stuff to folks who are intrigued, but don't know where to jump in.
Thank you, Chris.
Interesting world.
Yeah, man.
It's my pleasure.
All right.
Love you lots, Kevin.
Talk soon, bud.
What's up internet, it's Chris Krug.
(00:01):
I'm checking in from Vancouver and I got my buddy, Kevin Kelly with me here.
Say what's up, Kevin.
Hi, Chris.
I want to catch.
Kevin's an old photographer, buddy of mine.
We met at Holly Hawk on Cortez Island back in the day and he's got
quite an interesting claim to fame.
He wrote a book called Home Planet, or I should say maybe curated and
(00:22):
published a book called Home Planet in the seventies.
Kevin.
Not that bad.
88, later part of 88.
With a bunch of original photos from space of earth, if taken by NASA and
by the Soviet Cosmo program and the forward was written by Jacques Cousteau.
(00:42):
Yeah.
Tell us a little about that, Kevin.
It was the most beautiful pictures of the earth from space, accompanied by
quotations from astronauts and cosmonauts reflecting in about what it meant to be
human and experience the earth and the moon space from space.
And one of the things I've always been intrigued about your project, sorry to
(01:06):
cut you off, is like the open source nature of it.
So you didn't make those photos, did you?
I went to NASA.
I had a notion they were there.
I didn't even know for sure they were there.
And it's a long story about that.
But anyway, yeah, I looked through every hand held picture out the window taken
by astronauts and astronauts, were the first Mercury flight all the way
(01:31):
past the book to 1999.
And I looked through every one of those and curated them down to about 3000
that I thought were pretty good, would be good.
And I had to cut those down to 150.
And it was the biggest co-publication between a Soviet and American publisher.
(01:52):
And we ended up printing books in 11 languages simultaneously by one printer
in Italy and the quotes were accompanied by, the quotes were in the native language
of the flyer if it was different than the language of the edition.
It's amazing really.
These photos are available to you because they were made with taxpayer dollars?
(02:14):
They were hard to get.
You go, the only picture back then was the full moon, the full earth picture,
the Apollo picture, and so nobody's seen them.
Most people hadn't seen any of these.
And I was, I was editing with, with the couple of women who were helping,
we were editing them and going through them.
And somebody said in the room, it sounds like you guys are having an orgy in there.
(02:37):
Cause everybody was going, Oh my God.
Oh, stuff.
And it was just, they're just awesome.
They're just absolutely awesome.
Those things.
We put them in a big coffee table book and custodial forage on the
New York Times bestseller list for eight weeks or something.
Yeah.
When I tell your story, like almost everybody is familiar with the cover of
(02:58):
that book and the iconic photos that you published there.
It was quite a bit without noetic Institute and it was the astronauts
and the associated space explorers.
It was really done under their aegis.
I took the idea to them.
They already had an idea and we worked together.
Anyway, enough of that.
What brings us here together today is we've been on a bit of a exploration together.
(03:19):
You and I have been having some chats about AI and sticking them on the
internet and folks been following those along and figuring out what we're up to.
And stuff.
And so I guess I'll just turn it over to you at this point, man.
When we, thank you, Chris, when we talked last, he knew we're just in my, my view,
we're just starting to use AI for your business.
(03:42):
And you were telling us how, only me, how you were using it to edit stuff,
to search for stuff, to give you advice on how to look at all your.
I think doing life commercially, maybe personally too, and how to turn it
into a kind of a business plan and how to edit that.
And now it's been, like I say, maybe five months, however long it's been.
(04:06):
One hell.
How was that evolved?
What you were just starting that must, it must be changing.
You're probably using AI a ton of ways now.
And I'm interested in that progression.
What have you done and how are you using it?
How did you go, Oh, that's not so great.
Maybe I should do it this way.
What do you look, what are you learning there?
How are you using it?
Mostly I'd like to get in later on and maybe another call about show
(04:28):
us how are you using it?
Sure.
Okay.
Sure.
You're right, man.
It's been moving at like a breakneck speed since we talked last.
And I've definitely been like in the trenches, so to speak, just running
alongside all these different AI projects and trying to figure out what they're all
about and, and share that with the world.
And so, yeah, man, I'm using it all the time, every day now.
(04:51):
I've definitely been working on developing what I call like an AI mindset.
So it's like more than just the particular tools that I use or the
techniques that I use, but I've been trying to think about how I can best
integrate AI into my creative processes and my business processes and stuff.
And so I've been really overhauling everything.
(05:12):
I use it all day long.
Every day now for a while, I was doing some business coaching
with my friends businesses.
I developed a bit of a methodology where I would ask people to answer some
questions into their audio recorder on their phone, and I would transcribe
those and start to feed those into the AI and make some sense out of them.
(05:34):
And then return those recommendations back to them in the form of reports
and stuff, and I've done that for myself.
So a little bit more about that, what that means.
So you got you, you auto transcribe them and then you and then AI would come back
and say, this is the way they can organize their material as a business,
as a business approach.
Yeah, I might say.
(05:56):
Something like, Hey, Kevin, tell me about your photography career
and how you envision it moving forward.
I might ask you to record a 10 minute audio recording about that.
Then I may use that transcription from that audio recording to go into
ChatGPT or one of the other models and say, dear ChatGPT, you are a business
(06:18):
consultant and life coach.
My friend is looking to reinvent himself as we move forward into a
new age of digital photography.
Read this transcript, make detailed notes, pull out the best quotes and
give me a summary of what he has to say.
And so it'll analyze that, return all those things I asked it to.
(06:39):
And then we have some information that we can start making sense of.
I can share that with you and we can workshop it together.
And then we can take it to the next level and say, maybe I'll have you make
three different recordings, three different topics.
I've got these three different summaries and outlines, and then I might feed
those outlines back into the AI and say, all right, based on our discussions
with Kevin, use this information to generate new, new information.
(07:04):
And then we can create new about pages, service pages and contact pages for his
website or something like that and have it actually output the text.
And one thing that people have been talking a lot about lately is the way
that AI kind of writes like bullshit gobbledygook.
A lot of times you can tell that something's written by AI by the way
(07:28):
that it talks and stuff.
And so I've been trying to hack around that and make it so you can't.
It's uniquely my voice that it sounds like me as the best I can.
And so I've developed a couple of ways of doing that.
I've written a personal style guide.
I fed the AIs like, I don't know, 50 pages of my writings and had it build a writing
(07:48):
style guide based on my previous writing.
So now when I'm asking AI to write stuff for me, the first thing I feed it is my
style guide so it knows how I write and it knows how I speak from the outset.
I took that concept and I went a little further and I also had to develop a
perspectives and worldviews document.
I talked to it about what I think and what I feel and my thoughts.
(08:11):
And I also fed it a bunch of stuff from the past and I had it generate a document
that talks a little bit about how I see things, my philosophy, my core principles
and my values.
And so anytime I'm starting a new writing project with AI these days, I drop in my
style guide, I drop in my values document, and then I start to ask it for information.
(08:33):
And AI helped you refine and develop your styles guide and your personal values
guide as well?
Yeah, it's based on my original content.
It's based on if I talk, if I give a one hour keynote and that is recorded on
YouTube and I can get a transcription out of that, I can feed it.
I can feed that keynote transcript into the AI and I can say, based on how I talk
(08:54):
in this video, write me a writing style guide or based on what you hear in this
video, determine my values, objectives and purpose.
How well does it do that in your view?
Better than I could in five minutes.
It gets it about 90% accurate or maybe even better accurate enough that it's
definitely usable and I can just tweak it.
(09:14):
It's very accurate.
One of the things that's best at is like finding patterns in large blocks of text.
Like this week at work, I used it for an exercise where we were doing a branding
exercise and everyone on the team came up with five brand values, things they thought
the voice of our brand was and everyone's words were different.
We have 10 people, each one has five different values.
(09:36):
There's some overlap and to really coordinate and make sense of those things
is a hard thing for a human to do, but it's amazing when I fed everyone's
different values into the AIs and then asked it to make sense of the overlaps
and the discrepancies between those two things, it's really good at comparing
stuff and co-allating information.
(10:01):
It's quite incredible how accurate it is.
That's interesting.
Years ago, I've had broken up with somebody.
I just thought, I'll never meet anybody like that again.
My dating life is over when I got this invite from eHarmony and I thought,
all right, show me.
All right, we'll see.
So it took something like two hours to fill this thing out.
(10:23):
Are you the more like this or more like this?
And when I do those things, I go, yeah, I'm like that, but then I'm like that.
And I think the profile it made for me was, yeah, it sounds like it's excellent.
It's sorting through stuff like that.
It's really good.
And the more you tune it and tweak it, the better it will get.
(10:44):
The more original content that you can feed it, the better off you are.
And the difference in the writing outputs between just asking it to write you
something and asking it to write you something with your style guide and
perspective worldview fed into it, the results are completely different.
It's got my voice nailed.
Sometimes it's a little hyperbolic like it.
It takes my idioms and idiosyncrasies and takes them to an extreme.
(11:08):
But depending on the audience I'm writing for, I can always tone it down,
make it a little more straightforward, formalize my language.
And it's pretty easy to nudge it in the right direction.
I've got a couple of friends who I'm going to introduce to this on how,
how much time and effort and work does it take?
A lot less than it would if you were going to do this stuff on your own.
(11:30):
But it empowers me to do things I wouldn't have done otherwise, man.
In the last five months, I have overhauled like everything.
I've started a podcast, a video blog, an email newsletter.
I've started blogging again.
Like it's 2005 written new bios, short form and long form bios.
I built a new services page from my website.
(11:51):
It's not that it just makes things more efficient.
It's that it allows me to do stuff that I hadn't been doing before.
And that feels like creativity to me.
It feels like if I'm one of my friends listening to this and going,
how do I do this?
Is it something I can download and do, or do I have to go read all this stuff?
That Chris did and invent all these things and write all the code?
(12:14):
Was there plug and play or?
A great place for people to start if they're interested in more of the
personal branding area is like just take your bio from your about page
and copy it in GPT and say, update my bio for me and then paste the bio in
and see what it comes back with or say, here's my long form bio, write a short
(12:34):
form one or say, here's a short form bio, write a long form one.
And you'll start to get an idea based on its outputs, what it's capable of.
You know, you could say, write a formal version of this or write it as a,
here's my bio, write a feature length biography article about me.
(12:55):
And then you can start there to, you're more familiar with your own body of
work than you are almost anything else.
So it's a great place to test the waters with the AI, but I would just start
cutting, pasting stuff into it and, and see what you get back.
You have to do a show until some point on that.
I don't think this goal, how do you train?
Tell me how you're getting your transcriptions.
(13:17):
I'm doing them a couple of ways.
I've downloaded the chat GPT iPhone app, which is incredible.
It's literally just a prompt in a browser window and it uses the microphone.
So I can literally like talk to it.
Hey, chat GPT, I'm here on doing a podcast with my buddy, Kevin Kelly.
(13:40):
And he wants me to tell him more about the best practices when it comes to
dictating your phone to AI and it will return some results.
I got put my glasses on here.
I use auto dictate a lot on the iPhone and it sucks.
What's the name of that program?
(14:03):
The voice recorder app on phones now does auto transcription.
So I just use the voice memo app.
I push the big red button, I talk at it.
And when it's done, there's a transcription there waiting for me.
And then all these tools are integrating transcription services.
One of the things AI is the best at, whether it's like YouTube, YouTube,
(14:24):
or Otter AI or man, the podcasting tool I'm using these days, Kevin,
it would really blow your mind.
It's called Descript.
And okay, so I put my video in or I put my audio file in and boom,
it generates a text based transcript.
How accurate is that?
Dude, it's fucking accurate, man.
It's 99% accurate.
(14:44):
And it says right at the top, would you like me to remove filler words?
And you're like, yeah. And so it goes through and it says, the filler words I usually look for are umms,
butts and uhs or something like that.
What other filler words would you like me to add?
And I have a couple.
I say the word like all the time.
I say the word just.
(15:06):
I minimize things by putting the adjective little,
check out this little project I'm involved with and stuff like that.
So anyway, I put these words in and boom, it's like,
I'm going to add a little bit of filler words.
I put these words in and boom, it goes through the whole hour long podcast,
identifies those words and removes them.
And then it shows you what you're going to remove.
(15:30):
Yeah, but it shows you like in the word document form, in the transcript form,
it highlights all the umms in the document,
but then it goes back to the audio and the video file and removes it from the video and from the audio and splices together.
So you have like seamless.
Oh, man.
Dude, Kevin, it's that sound though when you take the because you got a flow and you don't see where it's man.
(15:52):
It sounds like an interview on 60 minutes.
You don't realize that everything you watch on TV,
everything you've ever ingested via the mainstream media is super chopped up and cut together and edited, man.
It's very you never see raw footage.
This is audio, not video. Right.
It's audio. It's audio and video, Kevin.
But you're sitting there talking and gesturing and you take out.
(16:16):
Fuck. And then my hand went like that.
Does it patch that stuff in a way that doesn't show?
OK, so if you're making big gestures.
It could jump from a gesture frame to a non gesture frame.
But in terms of all the mouth stuff in your face,
it splices them together so you don't notice the cuts and the edits.
(16:39):
And so in normal filmmaking, what you would do if I was waving my hands around
and then you cut out a swear word and it jumped to me without my hands moving around,
you would just fill that one cut with a piece of B roll.
You would just take one shot of something that's not my face.
You'd cut to that for a second and then you cut back or whatever to hide it.
But you would you don't need to do that, man.
It's a remarkable.
(17:00):
Doing this. Yeah, dude.
And I can't. The script, it's called.
And I the way I've been editing my pocket,
I spent an hour and a half in the bathtub this morning,
editing a recent podcast, and I literally go through the text based transcription
and start to delete and edit the parts I don't want.
And then, you know what else I do, Kev?
(17:21):
Remember, I told you I was building a voice clone audio model.
My voice clone has gotten pretty good.
So not only can I remove.
Via a text based transcript, the parts of the audio video that I want out,
but then I can insert things that I didn't actually even say
into the audio using my voice clone.
So I can literally type a transition and up next we have.
(17:45):
And it will in my voice clone model output a little audio file that says
and next we have and then it will seamlessly cut that into my interview
with you that I have there or something like that.
And you can't tell the difference between the part that's my voice and not my voice.
What's the purpose?
What's to use? What do you want a voice clone for?
What's that about?
(18:06):
Like I just said, I can use it in the audio editing process
to string together things I've said
with a transition of something that I didn't actually say.
It's very useful when the audio editing process to be able to make yourself
say something that you didn't actually say.
(18:27):
You left out the podcast or something.
You go, damn, I should have said that and I didn't say it.
The needed amplification, that kind of thing.
Yeah, that's right.
Or even just little words here and there as I'm deleting sections
and making this a tight edit, sometimes like the context or the tone is just
if I had one word in there, like an and or a the or whatever,
(18:48):
the sentence would make more sense.
And so I can literally just type T H E.
And in my voice, a the will be inserted into that string.
And it's it's really incredible.
And then I can use it for longer form stuff, too.
If I wanted to, I could type out a three paragraph.
Intro and have my voice clone read that intro.
(19:09):
But I found it would be better for myself to just read it in my real voice
and then to supplement it with the voice clone in places that it's missing.
And the value of the voice clone is it's will, in theory,
will be easier to insert these things and you going back in
(19:30):
and speaking them and inserting them that way.
Yeah, there's some things that it just doesn't make sense to make a recording of.
Yeah, there's all sorts.
Yeah, there's all sorts of ways to use the audio clone in audio and podcast editing.
Is it only for editing?
I had a sense that you had multiple uses for this.
(19:52):
I do have multiple uses.
I was like having chat GPT generate poetry and I was reading,
having my voice clone read that poetry in my voice.
But that was mostly as a way to test the model to see how close it was getting to
being able to accurately imitate my voice or whatever.
But yeah, dude, I could like programmatically have chat GPT or AI in general
(20:17):
harvest me all the best photography headlines of the day.
Feed that via text into my voice clone,
have my voice clone read those headlines as news stories.
And then publish that as a podcast without any human involvement if I wanted to.
Maybe if you were dating somebody, you could maybe get it
to make you sound like Barry White.
(20:39):
Yeah, you absolutely could.
This tool that I use is called Eleven Labs,
and I highly recommend you checking it out.
It's very fascinating.
Not only can you use your own voice, but people like me can submit my voice
to the, I don't know, voice library or whatever.
And so you can use lots of other people's voices, too.
They got everything from like thug to valley girl.
(21:00):
They just download these different voices and you could have a what sounds
like a podcast with multiple hosts on it, and it could all just be robots.
So somebody.
I come along, it's been five months, you've got all this work.
We've done five months to be in this stuff.
(21:21):
You've been learning, practice, practicing and playing with it.
Would it take me how much work and effort would it take me to get
at least fairly functional?
I got a friend who's.
My friends are really accomplished.
Like Dugan knew we were talking about.
Yeah, he's just really dive into this stuff.
(21:42):
Now there will it take him just a couple of weeks to get going,
get kind of caught up with where you are.
Is it going to take them six months like you or?
OK, so it's like a two fold answer.
It's so exciting right now.
Because these tools are becoming more and more easy to use and like
more and more democratized.
They're showing up in Gmail and they're showing up in like the Microsoft
(22:02):
search engine.
These companies are making really big moves to integrate these new
AI tools into their offerings.
Some people would say too big of moves.
They're moving too quickly and maybe not thinking things all the way through.
But so.
In terms of the tools, they're getting more powerful and easier to use than ever.
So in some ways you didn't necessarily miss the boat by not being into it six
(22:25):
months ago.
However.
More than the tools and the techniques is really about developing this AI mindset,
understanding how you can use this stuff and what it's good at and what it's not
good at.
And I do think that takes some time to understand.
And while it can start giving you useful stuff right away, I'd encourage like
getting up to speed and run along inside of it as quickly as you can so that you
(22:49):
can really start to understand how it works.
And, and put it to work for you.
Okay.
Here's a workshop for you and or something.
What is what this talk about?
What is the AI mindset?
Sure.
Let's break down the AI mindset.
It's off the cuff.
(23:09):
Yeah.
I, it changes the way I interact with my machine, my computer, the internet and
people around me.
And so just understanding.
Like I said, like what it's good at and what it's not good at places to use it.
(23:30):
It really can.
So last weekend I was at a hackathon, a public transportation hackathon called
hack CT, and I was a mentor for the different groups there.
And I was the photographer of the event, but I got really inspired during the
opening remarks.
There was the guys from GitHub there, the CEO and the CEO, Thomas and Kyle.
(23:50):
And they were talking about how in the future, the short term future, like 80%
of all code and software is going to be written by AIs.
And I was like, well, that sounds pretty good to me because I'm not much of a
developer.
I, I am not much of a coder.
And they were talking about no code hacking and stuff.
And I was like, all right, the time is now.
So I use chat GPT's advanced code analyzer to build an AI powered chat bot
(24:16):
for public transportation.
It's built in HTML, but also in Python and in Flutter and socket OS.
And these are like highly technical programming languages that I have not
been trained on, but through working with chat GPT, I was able to generate
code, refactor the code.
(24:38):
There was even a point at which I was trying to debug the, the part of the
app that serves up the mobile version of the app.
And I was stuck and I asked someone for help and they said, oh, you chose
Dart, but if you would have chose react native, I could help you.
I'm sorry, I can't help you.
And I was like, all right, I should be able to get AI to figure out how to
(25:00):
refactor this whole code base and take the Dart part out and put the react
native part in.
And so I changed the app midstream, refactored all the code base,
integrated socket.io and react native.
And then Ari was able to help me do all the debugging or whatever.
And even to the point of asking AI how to use GitHub, how to commit my code
(25:22):
to the open source repository, how to use the chat GPT to document the code
that I wrote so that other developers that want to download it and use it,
have all the documentation in line there and stuff.
And so when I talk about developing an AI mindset, truly understanding the
(25:42):
possibilities that are there with it and starting to experiment with which of
those things feel good and are impactful in your life and in your career.
Okay.
That's a general oversensitivity.
Overview.
I'll use you.
Specifically, that's more depth in the AI mindset.
(26:06):
So as part of it is understanding what it can do for you.
And there are a lot of different facets of what it can do for you.
Sure.
Know what those are.
So you see the wheels turning.
Yeah.
Have you been tinkering with it much?
(26:27):
No, I haven't had.
I've been building, building your projects.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just, I, as a couple, you remember that time that you sent me a legal letter
one time and you needed a response to it or whatever.
And that was pretty interesting use of it.
I was able to turn some stuff around for you.
(26:48):
Yeah.
We used, I had, I was pissed off about something and was saying, hey, come on,
wait a minute and writing a letter.
I use it that way all the time, man.
Like sometimes people make, they write things on the internet that need response,
but I don't want to respond in kind.
And so I write my true response and then I take it into AI and I'm like, yo,
(27:11):
help me say this in a diplomatic and peaceful way.
And you said, just, I, and I, you said, yeah, I said, could you run this by
through a chat GDP, please.
And you said, and you said, yeah, yeah, just send to me.
I said, no, it's not ready yet.
I got to, it's got too much emotional stuff and it's not quite clear.
And now I'll do it.
Let me, I got to go through it again.
(27:32):
And, and you said, no, just send it, just send it.
And I sent it to you and it was fucking amazing.
Yeah, it's pretty incredible, man.
Yeah.
You said, it wasn't perfect because there was stuff I had in it that
were what wasn't clear and that stuff that wasn't clear, that was convoluted.
It didn't totally sort out, but it could have been easily edited and sorted.
(27:55):
But here's one that might help.
Okay.
I've been using this new tool for the last couple of weeks called Po, P O E.
And I've mentioned it on a couple of podcasts and stuff, but it's essentially
like a dashboard that allows you access into a bunch of different AIs.
Google has a model called Palm.
Meta and Facebook have a model called Llama.
(28:16):
There's chat GPT, which you've heard of.
There's Anthropics version of clode.
There's all these different AIs that are floating around.
There's mid journey and Dolly and all the rest.
Right.
So Po consolidates all those different AIs into one interface.
So I can ask the same question or prompt the AI with the same prompt
(28:36):
across multiple different models.
And I get different results based on the model.
And I can start to learn which ones are better at which things.
So chat GPT is really good at writing code, whereas clode is really good at creative writing.
The output of its creative writing is way better than chat GPT.
(29:01):
I have used the Po tool to start sending different information to different AIs
and start to get a good feel for what the different ones are good at.
Okay.
This is a good place to have yourself.
There's about four minutes.
Can you tell us, tell me about the server?
What's, what does your, what does your discord server, what's it there for?
(29:24):
What does, how many people you got on it now?
Discord is a lot like Slack.
It's just a place for teams or groups to share information and collaborate in chat.
It comes out of the video game world.
I said, when I was very first learning mid journey, which is a text image based AI,
where you type some words and it sends back pictures.
(29:47):
When I was first learning mid journey, it takes place on discord.
The only way to interact with it is on discord.
So I went to the mid journey discord and it's a chaotic space port of all sorts of.
There's literally thousands of people.
If you're not familiar with discord and you're not familiar with AI,
it's a very confusing place to be.
I decided, okay, I want to do this, but I want to do it in a semi-private environment.
(30:08):
So I created my own discord channel and I installed the mid journey bot on it.
And then I started to invite my friends to that place.
And instead of making images on the mid journey discord server, they can now make
it on mine and we can learn together or whatever.
And over time that has turned into a bit of a forum and chat room and collaboration
space that's got, I don't know, 250 people on it.
(30:31):
It's not super active.
There's not like a hundred messages a day.
Sometimes there's a hundred messages, but sometimes there's not.
And it's a mix of people sharing links and asking questions, making jokes, sharing
insights, and then there's another channel where people are generating images and
prompting mid journey, an events channel and like a place to an audio chat channel,
(30:52):
video chat channel place to hang out and talk to people, share and stuff.
And yeah, it's just a private little corner of the internet where a bunch of creative
geeks are hanging out and trying to figure this stuff out together.
It's very easy.
It's very easy to use.
I find they're just a couple sections.
Your airlock is where people talk.
(31:13):
It's a real pleasure to have you there, man.
If nothing else, it's like a choir of different voices and perspectives who
are all trying to crack the same nut together.
And yeah, it's, it feels supportive and empowering.
I like it.
I tell people my VCR is still blinking 12 midnight.
I'm not that digitally astute and it's quite easy to navigate that.
(31:36):
And there's, you put most of your podcasts on there and people put in other things
that they see and it's very easy to navigate through it and the really good learning
workplace.
I wish we could, I should buy the fucking pro version of zoom, Kevin, so we can
make these things a little bit longer.
I'm not really ready to go yet.
There you go.
Anyway, Chris, this is very interesting.
So where are you going now with this?
(31:57):
What's your learning curve?
You got the minute and 20 seconds or so.
Mine says I got three and a half, four and a half minutes.
Oh man.
I'm trying to learn better podcasts and video editing production techniques.
Mostly I've been doing these one take things or whatever, but I'm trying to
(32:17):
take it to the next level and make my podcast sound more like the stuff that
you are familiar with and stuff and yeah, I'm growing the email newsletter
and the discord channel, just immersing myself in the AIs and then trying to
share it with the world.
And the server or anything new going on there or anything real cutting edge on
(32:40):
AI that's exciting that you're going to change things for us.
Just yesterday, Microsoft announced that they're going to be doing a
Microsoft announced that they're going to relaunch Bing and relaunch everything
at Microsoft under this new AI, everything one ring to rule them all brand.
And that's pretty intriguing.
(33:02):
They're really taking it to the next level.
And I expect to see other people like Meta and Google do the same.
So there's been a lot of banter about that.
Oh, one, one big thing is open AI has their own text to image generation
model called Dolly and Dolly three is released and it's integrated into chat
(33:25):
GPT before you used to have to be had your text to text AIs and your text to
image AIs and they were separate.
And the one that was good was mid-journey and you had to go to discord to do it,
which was a pretty high barrier of entry to a lot of people.
That's not what it's like anymore.
Now you can do image prompting inside chat GPT natively with an even more
(33:48):
powerful model and it's going to make it very accessible to a lot of people.
It's going to be very interesting.
And the prompting is different too.
The vocabulary is different.
The way you talk to it to get what you want is quite a bit different.
And I'm experimenting with that right now as well.
And we prompt animation or just still images.
(34:10):
Yeah, you can prompt animation and video.
If you want to prompt moving images, check out runway.ai.
It's incredible, man.
You can take stills of anything, real things or AI generated things,
and you can turn them into clips.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
And there's other animation tools as well.
(34:32):
3d model.
You can make 3d models.
There's a new logo one that came out text to logo prompting.
Which one is that?
It's called idea ideogram.
I D E O G R A M dot AI.
Right.
Not only does it make, not only does it make the picture, but it puts words in
(34:52):
it too, which is something that mid journey and Dolly hadn't been proficient
at up until now.
Let's do this again.
We got any time left on this or.
No, not really.
I think we got about a minute here.
And yeah, man, I'm always happy to talk to you about this stuff.
I love sharing it with the world and I appreciate you bringing all your
friends on into the server and being a Sentinel and translating all this
(35:16):
geeky stuff to folks who are intrigued, but don't know where to jump in.
Thank you, Chris.
Interesting world.
Yeah, man.
It's my pleasure.
All right.
Love you lots, Kevin.
Talk soon, bud.
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