Copywriting, Branding, and Building Connections with Emily Aborn - Episode 45 - Vanesstradiol

Episode Transcript
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Vanessa (00:00):
It counts to one but then like it'll pop like you on

(00:03):
the screen or me on the screenand not both again. Hello webcam
focus on me Here we go. Anywayshello everybody welcome back to
transcending humanity This isepisode as as our guest Emily's
do we have to call it 45 But Irealized in these episodes I

(00:28):
never introduced myself likeever so I'm Vanessa Joy also
known as Australia and I am theperson that kind of just took
over the show I just read it nowso because you know, control
freak and shit like that. As areminder, the views and opinions
of anyone and everyone on theshow are their own and not their

(00:50):
respective employersorganizations, what have you. I
would also like to as usual,remind everybody at the Patreon
the patrons Patreon Patreon.
Patreon stores their shit Iforgot to pull up the names of
our new patrons I'm sorry, Iwill have to make a list I think
I put it on like an intro ofYouTube though so like right

(01:13):
here hopefully that'll bepopping up saying thank you
because I'm scatterbrained andmerch store. I finally got one
piece. And of course my cameradoesn't like it. There we go.
And under tag, I'm not sure ifit's gonna show up or not. But
where is it? Right here. I don'tknow how well you can read it

(01:41):
but instead of a tag it saysfuck conservatives, so which is
getting bigger? Anyways, I'vebeen just yammering on
importantly sitting there likewhat the fuck did I get myself
into?

Emily Aborn (01:54):
I didn't know if you want to move live responding
or just waiting lighter. You can

Vanessa (01:59):
do whatever you can do whatever you want. So, but your
face was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, Iramble. And anyways. Our guest
my guest, whatever this week isEmily Eborn. Right. mucins.
Right. Yeah. So they can runwith B, it's easy enough to

(02:19):
remember. And so I'm going tolet her do the introductions
rather than try to introduceherself. So Emily, give us two
minute. Everything

Darn I don't even have like us, like any swag to
show the camera or anything. Um,thanks for having me. This is so
fun. I'm looking forward to it.
And sorry, I didn't know if youwant to be like responding to
what you're saying? No. Okay,I'm like she's doing with it.
Um, I'm Emily, a born asaforementioned, and I'm a
copywriter. I'm also a podcastguest which our podcast hosts

(02:51):
sorry, we're just how we met, wemet through a podcast collective
that we're in. Um, and I don'tknow, I really liked what I do.
And I had this like epiphanytoday where sometimes I think if
you like what you do for work,you feel like you have to make
some sort of excuse or you haveto make up some reason that
like, oh, but it's not good allthe time. But actually, I just

(03:13):
like it all the time. Yeah, Ilike it.

Vanessa (03:18):
I get what you mean.
I'm like that with protectphotography. The only thing I
don't like is when home sellersdon't turn on the air
conditioning, but I'm just awhiner. So anyways, go on. So

I think that's it.
I don't know. I live in NewHampshire. I went to school in
Ohio. That's where I am thatFootball Hall of Fame. Canton,
Ohio.

Vanessa (03:41):
I'm in wrestling right now. Oh, crazy.

Yeah, right down the road. Yeah. Cool. Small
world. Very small world. Yes.
There was a chocolate shop inCanton, North Canton. And I used
to tutor for the family. It waslike a really well known family
that I used to tutor theirdaughter.

Vanessa (03:59):
Like every week. So chapter shops coexist, because I
like chocolate.

Not sure. But it was so good. Like there was a
meal with giant boxes likecashew color, cut chocolate
covered cashews and liketurtles. And it was so amazing.
Okay.

Vanessa (04:14):
I still would not be able to handle being around kids
like that. But when chocolatesinvolved it would help, you
know, in well. So, Emily, I'mgoing to kind of go by our
little outline that I sent you.
So please

do make us both feel great. Yeah.

Vanessa (04:38):
Tell us what to you is copywriting.

That's a good question. Because actually, some
people think that copywriting islike that little sea that's at
the bottom of a piece of likethe bottom of a publication or
at the beginning of a book.
That's copyright. That is notwhat I do. I do like the copy
that people find on websites andalso in their marketing
materials. So I say that I docontent and copy because here's

(05:03):
the differentiation, like forbusiness owners copy typically
is written with a goal of likegetting you to take an action.
So I'm trying to either sell yousomething get you to contact me,
like I want you to do somethingfrom the copy that I'm laying
out content and sometimes theyintertwine, but content is more
like the kind of like nurturingeducational relationship

(05:27):
building community based, youknow, sharing that kind of
thing. So I do both, because Ithink that they're both really,
really important for ourbusinesses. But like, what
lights me up, I think is whensomebody wants to get a little
crazy with their website and lettheir like personality out and
just like have a little bit offun and and step outside the

(05:49):
boundaries. I guess. I likethat.

Vanessa (05:55):
Yeah. Do you ever copyright your copywriting?
Like, see copy? It seems funny.

Technically, it is copyrighted. Like if you go to
the bottom of a website, you'llsee like copyright, but the
website designer takes the kindof credit for it, but they
usually do like tie back to mein some ways. Some sometimes. I
put my name at the bottom of mylittle brother's website the
other day, because I did thewhole like layout and
everything, bro. Like I'm prettysure

Vanessa (06:26):
it's not my Squarespace. It's like Emily.
Exactly. Squarespace no sponsor,but they could be

Transcending Humanity (06:34):
20% Off we can get

Vanessa (06:38):
but Yeah, no shit. I send them a lot of money because
I have transcending humanitysite and my personal photography
site. So I'm sending them like,what, 65 hours a month.

I don't think it's cheap. Like it's not. Man,
Squarespace really. I used to beon Squarespace. And it's not
inexpensive. And it's not greatcustomer service. Like they kind
of leave you hanging. So really,I don't I don't love
Squarespace, but okay.

Vanessa (07:07):
Well, Squarespace, if you're listening, I will take in
money. You need to make it rightwith Emily, because

it just does not endorse doesn't express your
views. Yeah,

Vanessa (07:19):
I'm happy to take people's money. I will sell out
pretty pretty easily. But I justI enjoy it. I've never had to
use their customer service,though. So yeah, the only thing
that was annoying was during Ihad a period. I don't know if
you listened to the previousshows, but I really dark period,
right? Like, I don't want tohave a show anymore. And I

(07:40):
deleted the website. And then Iimmediately regretted it. So I
reactivated it. But they chargedme full price again. I'm like,
shit, but whatever. So lessonlearned, if you if you get
snippy and you want to deleteyour website from Squarespace,
don't do that.

Take a pause, you know, flip a coin, flip a coin.
And whatever the coin comes backwith, if you're happy with the
result, do what the coin says ifyou're not happy with the
result, don't do what the coinsays write the coin, then you
can test it out, you could test

Vanessa (08:14):
these words of wisdom, absolute words of wisdom. It's,

it's like how I get I have a hard time making
decisions. You know what I mean?
Like I'm like, I don't knowuntil I feel it. So then I'll
flip a coin. And then I'm like,Oh, I don't like that response.
So then I know it again.

Vanessa (08:30):
And you do it again and again. And again. I love that
you were I saw something on yourwebsite, where like you're
talking about the copy andcontent, but like you struggle
to write your own copy on yourown website. And I feel that so
hard like i The transcendinghumanity website, like the main

(08:53):
site itself has almost no textat all, because I just I used to
have so much trouble just tryingto come up with a description
for the show because the show isnow kind of hard to describe. It
used to be easier because it wasmainly transfer this now it's
all over the place. And so mydescription is pretty half fast.

I had an idea for you. So if I were to ask you,
like oh, okay, like what reallyis the heartbeat of what you
want to do in the world. Likewhat's like, I need to do this
thing. I need to bring this intothe world

Vanessa (09:30):
look at these deep questions. I was not expecting
it Like usually I just do Benderfrom Futurama kill all humans,
but I just want I want to makeenough of a mark in the world in
a good way that whatever I'vedone has helped more people than

(09:51):
I've heard. Okay, Michael. Hedon't know exactly how I'm going
to be achieving in the long run,but I do like him so

and then like, what is the message you want to bring
to life on this show?

Vanessa (10:08):
kill humans.

I mean, maybe something a little bit entices
people to listen. I mean, youknow what? Yeah, I think
actually, if you just put killall humans, I think a lot of you
get a lot of listeners, youshould try that. Work back to us
all and let us know how it went.
Or like

Vanessa (10:28):
Suzy Desired One of her most famous bits is kick her
death, you know, your characterdeath. Immediately Susie aside,

I should warn you I know like zero about all pole
pop culture, which is anotherstory for another day, but he
knows nothing about what you'retalking about.

Vanessa (10:46):
Oh, she's a comedian.
And she used to go she stilldoes sometimes go by Eddie
Izzard. I love that name ringsbell for you either. But to go
it is hard. Okay.

This is the truth.
I was extremely sheltered as achild and like, didn't wake up
to being unsheltered until I waslike 30 something and then I had
a lot of catching up to do like,I get a lot to take in. You
know, I'm just like figuring outTaylor Swift is basically

Vanessa (11:14):
and while you're talking to the transcript if she
was 40, so I feel you it's Yeah,like that veil has been ripped
away from your face. Like wheream I? This is weird.

Exactly. There's a lot to take. Yeah.

Vanessa (11:31):
Oh, back with like, on my on my website, the copy,
like, because Squarespace haslike an AI writer thing. And I'm
like, Fine, just do something.
And I wrote one paragraph likethe About Me paragraphs about
me, but I, I did not have thewordsmith bug.

A A client came to me recently, she's like, Hey, I
wrote this page. For me, this iskind of like my brand's vibe.
And I was like, Oh, my God, no,please. No, because it just
sounds like everybody like a Ireally liked the words like,
unlock unleash your innerpotential alignment, you know,
like, it loves those words. AndI'm just like, please, we're all

(12:11):
saying the same thing.

Vanessa (12:13):
So I think I'm ever gonna have to talk to you about
writing copy for my sites.
Because like, usually, I'm goodat like, I am a really good
writer. But like, when it comesto self promotion, I think
that's what you're talkingabout. Like, when you're writing
your own copy. It's hard. Like,it's

hard. And there's like, so much we want to say,
and it's like, how can I makesure that this makes sense? And
like, there's a lot of depth toprobably what you want to say it
like a lot of character andrichness. And you're like, how
do I put all of that into thisone thing. So that's what I
love. Like, I like listening towhat people are saying when
they're when they're sharingtheir message and like, be like,

(12:52):
Okay, we're going under thatwe're going deeper. Like, I want
more. And let's peel backanother layer of the onion. So
that's like what I'm all about,but it is hard for me to even do
with myself. Like I feel in myheart things that I'm like, I
don't know how to say this.
I know. It's hard. It's toohard. Yeah, feelings are too

(13:12):
hard.

Vanessa (13:13):
You also have to have it short and concise. I know I
took you through your entiremessage because you only have
people's attention span for whatseven seconds? If not, so. Yeah.
Well, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Well, it's your applet. Yeah, yeah. Welcome to
content with character, theweekly podcast that'll give you
the momentum, you need to createcontent with more ease, clarity
and laughter. I'm your hostcontent copywriter, Emily, a
Warren, and I'm all aboutUNCONVENTIONAL marketing

(13:49):
approaches. I believe in yourbig ideas, and I'm excited to
help you share them in a waythat's distinctly you.

Vanessa (13:58):
Yeah. So how did you get into copywriting? Okay,

so that's fun. Um, I won't take you all the way
back to when I was a kid. But Ireally, like wanted to be a
writer since I was a little kid.
Like that was my that was mything. I did like the news, the
local newspaper and like Iopened all of these businesses
and like, wrote the flyers forthem. Like it was always inside
of me, but for some reason,because zero guidance. I went to

(14:23):
school for like health educationand nutrition. And I was like,
Well, I'm going to do likecommunity health and nutrition
and health coaching and stufflike that. So I follow that
track for a decade and then myhusband and I actually opened
like a local retail shop wherewe sold I don't know how to

(14:45):
explain it, but like sleepproducts and bedding that was
like non toxic and organic. Soit's like a weird like New
Hampshire. I'll say this.
Because Ohio we had thisdifferentiator where I lived in
New Hampshire was like this veryHurry like, like I want to say
like kind of hippie crunchynatural minded like people drive
like Priuses and Subarus and allthose, you know, like all

(15:08):
wearing Birkenstocks. So it wasa good market for like organic
bedding products. Okay. So wehave this retail shop, and we're
running it, and I was miserable.
And he was kind of miserable.
And one day, like five yearsinto it, we woke up, pun
intended. And we were like, Whatare we doing? What are we doing?

(15:29):
So I had to sit down with likethis business mentor, and she's
like, Okay, what parts of yourbusiness do you really like? And
what parts do not like? Andbasically, I was like, Okay, I
don't like working with peoplewho don't like being in store. I
don't like selling. I like allthe marketing pieces and all the
writing and like this stuff. SoI did what you would do when you

(15:50):
figure that out, I went and gotmy real estate license.

Vanessa (15:53):
I have one of those two, for two

seconds, like, Okay, that was fun. I learned
all about that. And didn'tdidn't employ that. And then I
just kind of like, I startedgetting clients in this business
before we had close the otherone. And so I my husband's like,
Well, I think you shouldprobably go get a real you know,
like a salary like we need likehealth benefits and a real job.

(16:17):
And like, I was like, alright,well, let's just see if I can
like build this thing up. If Iget enough clients, then I'll
I'll focus on this for a littlewhile, then I'll look at real
jobs. And like, it's just kindof blew up and exploded and I
never went back. I was like, Ohdarn, I have a business.

Vanessa (16:33):
That's amazing. So I've

taken since then I've like you know, to be
copywriting specific, likewebsite versus just writing
writing. You have to educateyourself a little bit. And also
take courses and gather moreinformation. It's not just as
easy like, you know, like, youdon't just slap words onto a
website. It's kind of like aspecific way that you move about

(16:55):
a site specific ways that youmake people feel and like the
psychological and sociologicaljunk that goes into that. So
that's my story. It's not verysad. It's not like some eye
opening epiphany. But once ithappened, I was like, Okay, I've
known this since I was like fiveyears old.
Why did no one tell me this? Whydid no one say little Emily?

(17:18):
Just go to school for writing orcommunications or journalism.

Vanessa (17:23):
You said you grew up in kind of a sheltered world?
That's probably why Yeah, yeah,they didn't, they didn't want to
grow up to be educated orwhatever, who knows. But, and
Vanessa brings it down to thedepressing side again. It Like
It kind of reminds me of like,what I used to run a
manufacturing company. And thenI made the natural pivot to real

(17:43):
estate photography. After beingan Uber driver, and I worked for
a color car dealership for aboutfour hours. And I deliver food
and shit for a while. And I alsogot my real estate license and
that was a waste of time andmoney.

Yeah, so but I mean fun to learn about now, you
know, like what an easement is,you know, you know, if you cross
over your neighbor's yard andthe Certain Way It's fine or not
fine. Fasting, how do you orderthe water?

Vanessa (18:17):
Yeah, it did. I was my photography business. Because I
primarily do real estatephotography. So what I you may
love or hate this, but I wrotemy first like, big blog for my
website, and I was teachingpeople that one of the number

(18:39):
one things I've run into as areal estate photographer are
sellers that just, they don'tknow what to do when it comes to
getting their house readybecause there's so much to think
about, and they're already superstressed. So I have been sending
around just like little PDF tomy clients to send to their
customers, but I'm like, Youknow what, I think it's time to

(18:59):
actually put all this down. So Idid a pretty long blog post,
opened it with a Cliff's Notes,and then took a deep dive into
how to get your house prepped.
But for curiosity sake, I did a... sorry my tooth feels weird.

Just one tooth?

Vanessa (19:18):
Just one tooth. Yeah, here.

That's funny that you can feel your tooth!

Vanessa (19:23):
It must be an autistic thing. I don't know. And I'm
pretty even just Oh, sorry. OhGrammarly. So I'm like I'm
curious to see like how it doesand so I signed up for a free
trial of the Grammarly probecause it's expensive so 30
bucks a month it is expensive.
Like they were gonna charge melike for a yearly I'm like no

(19:45):
don't do that go away cancel.
But, so I typed it in Grammarlyand kind of let it do like some
proofreading and stuff likethat. And that was actually
fairly impressed because it keptmy words as they were for the
most part, but it helps withlike, reducing redundancies and

(20:09):
stuff like that was my problemwas irate like I talk and I
ramble a lot. So what are yourthoughts on people using
something like that for

a No, I love it and I love I like Grammarly. I find
that like, sometimes it willedit something, in a way when
I'm like, wow, I actually saidit better. But most of the time,
I'm like you like I haveredundancies too, you know, and
I'll say like the same. And alsothe word like their words that
we use, like just and that andthings that we just sorry, how

(20:42):
often do we say sorry for beforelike every single thing. It's
like, just say you're going tobe late. You don't need to say
sorry, say yeah, are yourpatients like running five
minutes late? Thanks for yourpatience. Not sorry, you know?
So words like but thatGrammarly, I don't think catches
that but words like just andthat like it will pull those out

(21:03):
and be like, you don't reallyneed that there. And I like that
because we use too many wordsand we can be more concise when
we you know, less is more as Isay. So I like Grammarly and I
think I don't use it as much.
But I think Grammarly is alsothe one that gives you like a
score of like how your effectis. So like, are you? How many

(21:25):
times were you positive? Howmany times do you use, like
heart centered words versus headcentered words? Like, I love
that. And my Google does that tome. And I'm like, Oh, look at
all these three hobbies, happyemail.

Vanessa (21:42):
I mean, it's helpful.
Like, yeah, when I was typing,you can you can ask it to do
certain tones, like creativeprofessional conversation, all
that kind of stuff or, and soit'll kind of stick to that. But
it'll catch you if you startlike writing something that
like, this has a negativeconnotation to it when you don't
mean it. So yeah. But I alsoseem to know someone that in the

(22:04):
field, what they thought of it,I have a

friend who will put emails and such through like
either chatty putty or Geminiand be like, can you please make
this sound like warmer andfriendlier? Which I find funny
because I always find AI to makeme sound less warm and friendly.
But I think it's where you'restarting from, right? Like, it's
like, whatever your baseline is.
There. Yeah,

Vanessa (22:28):
yeah. If your baselines already I mean, because you're
professional at this show, youknow what you're doing. So if
your baseline is already, like,it'd be fun to say, okay, take
this happy, cheerful texts, andthen make it depressing as fuck
yeah, exactly.

And yeah, so sometimes I might need to be
like, turn down the exuberanceto

slow lit up. Yeah,

Vanessa (22:49):
it's hard, though.
Yeah. Especially when you'reexcited about something.

I noticed that at a family function this weekend.
I'm like, maybe I don't need tobe so dialed up. Maybe they
don't want that version.

Vanessa (23:02):
I mean, here's some something to talk about. Right?
Yeah. So like, yeah, all right.
She's

gone. Let's talk about the wild.

Vanessa (23:13):
Sorry, I'm very burpee.
It's okay. I saw on your sitethat you do brand blueprints?
Yes. Let me tell you a brandblueprints are the best. I don't
think a lot of people know whatthey are. Can you give the
listeners a rundown of what abrand flute clip brand blueprint
is?

Okay. This is what a lot of people say to
me. They'll be like, I have thisbusiness. I am like, I know who
I serve and how I serve them.
But I don't know what to say.
And like, and I'm just like, weyou mean on your website? Do you
mean on your social media? LikeI don't know what to say
anywhere? So a bland, a brandblueprint?

(23:55):
It's hard to party out? Pardonmy I call it what do I call it a
brand? I don't even remember Inamed it something fancy.
And now I can't remember. Um,roadmap butter. I don't. Okay,
my brain is we're like in thesame universe today with the
with the brains

Vanessa (24:12):
brand messaging blueprints which are websites
Oh, okay.

See there? Yeah, let's see. That's what I said.
That's getting, um, but it likehelps you get clear on like,
your vision, your values, whoyou want to be talking to and
then like, I like to go reallyspecific on what those people
are struggling with. So that youdo have like 10 things now you
can actually say to them, youknow, and I also like include

(24:37):
like people's bios and theirbackgrounds and like different
ways to say your bio differentthings to share in your content.
So it's really like it'sbasically like your roadmap, I
guess for your business on like,what to share in different
places. Sometimes people getthem and I they can like
implement it onto their websitefrom what they get. Sometimes

(24:59):
they need to like say Okay, nowcan you take this and implement
it onto my website? Like, nowthis is a good foundation? Can
you now add the cops to thewebsite? So if they're really
fun, they take me like, twohours of talking about the
client and like really askingthem like 20 million questions
about who they are, why theystarted what they love, not just

(25:19):
like, Who do you think you are?
But who do other people in yourlife? Say that you are? Because
they find that to be helpful?
And you would be surprised howmany people answer through the
context of like what they do forsomeone. So like, you like, I'm
helpful, I'm supportive, I'mloyal. And I'm like, No, who are
you? Like, that's what you dofor somebody else? So

Vanessa (25:44):
deer in the headlights look? Yeah. I love them for I
actually learned about them forthe first time, I worked in a
marketing company for a littlebit. And just being able to set
consistency for the brandoverall. So your color schemes,

(26:04):
and then the blueprint can alsolay lay out the hex codes and
the what's the one for printingcodes? I find it to be RGB? No,
not the RGB. The I forget whatit is Pantone, Pantone, thank
you pantones. And then fonts,you can pick the fonts that you

(26:27):
like to use? And like, evenlike, right down to the style of
like photography, like do youwant soft? Or do you want edgy?
Or do you want more just likeartsy stuff? And so it's fun to
do that. And it's, it's nice forbusiness owners or people that

(26:49):
work for the business to to haveto reference. So they're not
just constantly double, doublethinking like, yeah, okay, I
have all this here. Like anyonethat uses Canva might kind of
understand this too, becauseCanva will start picking up your
brand colors. And so you cankind of easily access those. So
you

said it perfectly.
And I forgot about the visualmeats, like I do the writing
side of it, but the visual pieceis exactly that. It's like a
mood board for your brand.
You're either whether it's acoffee mood board or a visual
mood board, like it's, and Ifeel like we could all do this.
Like, even if we don't havewitnesses, it would be so fun to
do. Like, what's my personalkind of like vibe in this world?

(27:30):
You know, so it's a reflectionof who you are. And it's kind of
like your filter for what yousay yes. To what you say no to
awesome. Really awesome.

Vanessa (27:40):
It really is. It really helps you stay consistent. Yeah.

You said, yeah, that word is like my favorite
word. Yeah. US neurodivergent

Vanessa (27:50):
people. I don't know if you are, but I certainly have
consistency. It's like bothsomething we live by, and that
we can never stick to. So. Okay,so

I have a fun thing.
Because the word consistency. Iuse a lot. But I think that
people miss, they confuseconsistency with frequency. So
like, consistency for me isn'tlike I have to show up every
day, the same exact way. It justmeans I have to show up. Like
when I said I wanted to. Solike, I just want to stay true

(28:21):
to my own word. Basically, somedays that's showing up 10%
Right. Some days that's showingup like 5%. But it's really just
like, promising myself like,even if I don't want to do it.
I'm gonna stay consistent. Butit doesn't mean every day
doesn't mean every week. Itdoesn't mean every month it
doesn't mean it can meanwhatever you want it to mean for

(28:41):
you. To your point ofneurodiverse I have no idea. I'm
just I don't know. I'm just asometimes Yeah, yeah, that is a
weirdo. living my life.

Vanessa (28:53):
I mean, we're just good. Yeah, I don't know what
normal is. But

there is gonna be Yeah, no, no, there's got to be
a normal but I don't think it'dbe enjoyable at all. I can't
Yeah,

Vanessa (29:04):
yeah. Yeah. You have to wonder because there has to be a
normal. Yes. And so there's oneperson in the world somewhere
out there. That is completelynormal. Well, yeah, combined
everything which is kind ofweird to think about.

Imagine this. It'd be like so boring. I know. There
was a movie I don't rememberbecause I don't know pop
culture. But there was a movieabout cut like, where the world
was like all black and white.
And then they started to seecolor on the TV. What was that
movie? Like the first one?

Vanessa (29:35):
Yeah, I know what you're talking about something
shale in Holland it? Yeah, yeah.
Pleasantville? Yeah,

that's what it would be like is like the black
and white in Pleasantville.

Vanessa (29:47):
Yeah, definitely haven't thought about that movie
in a hot minute. Memories goodto have on the team.

I never would have thought that. That's
the thing. Like

Vanessa (29:57):
sometimes my brain will just bring something up. like
that, in other times, nothinglike Nothing

gets me as I'm like, why did you choose that
fact? Like there's all this likeactual relevant information that
you need, like, why walked intoa room, but then you choose some
random memory. I'm like threeyears old to keep in there like,
hello, let's prioritize.

Vanessa (30:22):
I know, I can tell you how many times I walked in the
room like what am I doing here?
Yeah. And lays over like, I hadan episode a few episodes back
where I talked about meeting agirl named Natalie nap. And just
because I saw her in a movie,I'm like, How the fuck do I know
her and I just fell into thisrabbit hole and one of turning
an episode about it. And itbecame friends. So

I love that. It's brains

Vanessa (30:47):
are weird. Brains are really weird. So moving on.
Let's see. I asked you like sometopics you'd like to cover. So
tell me about your passion forrelationship related
relationship building. Also,

if you don't mind me, we can talk about whatever
you want. So feel, you know.
Yeah. My passion forrelationship building.
I don't know. Oh, I was like thekid that.
So my parents, I'm not gonna getinto the whole backstory. But
they had like books like onpersonality and like how to

(31:33):
like, win friends and influencepeople like those kinds of
books. Okay. And as soon as Icould read, I was just
constantly reading but I alwayswanted to read books, like I
wasn't allowed to read. So I'dgo read like their, like, their
marriage books, and like, theirpersonality books and psychology
books and stuff. I loved thatstuff. So I just like I think

(31:54):
people is just something I'vealways been really, really
curious in, like, what makesother people tick and stuff. But
specific as as it relates tobusiness. I mean, it goes to any
part of life, right? But like,when we're doing us as an
entrepreneur, it's really reallylonely to be in on, like you,

(32:14):
nobody said isn't a businessowner can really understand
like, when you're like, Yeah, Idon't, I don't have that day
off. They're like, wait, what?
The Fourth of July? Why don'tyou have that day off? I'm like,
because I have work to do. Like,I don't have days off. Yeah,
like you do. But you choose themand you take them and you do
other things on that, like,you're still doing things. It's
all it's always in your brain.

(32:36):
So anyway, it's it's a lonelyjourney. And it's a really great
one. But I have just found in myown in my own entrepreneurial
journey that like finding peoplethat are like, either alongside
me or ahead of me or like, evenbehind me, like and building
those relationships. That's beenthe number one thing and a
helping my business grow. But Ialso think, leaving me feeling

(32:59):
fulfilled as a business owner,you know, and I think, I think a
lot of times we approach likesocial media and marketing and
all of this stuff is just like,put my message out there. And we
forget that there's actuallylike people on the other side
that we can be like, connectingwith like, you and I have
already started like a buildinga relationship. We we met in a
group, we emailed separate, andlike we follow each other on

(33:23):
social media, we can commentback to each other stuff, like
it's little tiny, simple things,but we get a sense of each
other's humor, right? Like nowNo, if I hear something out in
the world, it's gonna make methink of you, I might send you a
meme about it, right? Like, it'slike, I mean, I'm talking like
digital right now. But like,these are all just like, really,
really little simple things thathelp to build relationships. And

(33:45):
I think the first place you justhave to start if like that feels
important to you is just acuriosity to know the person on
the other side and like listenthem figure out what what makes
their brain tick, right? Like Ilove learning about your brain.
I like when you tell, like therandom workings of it. Like
that's interesting to me. Sojust having like a general
genuine, like curiosity andother people, you know, that is

(34:08):
like, I don't know, a better wayto say how do you build a
relationship than that?

Vanessa (34:13):
That's a really, really good way of putting it and it's
exceedingly important. And a lotof companies don't understand
that. Like, good solidbusinesses usually are really
good at establishingrelationships. Because in the
end, we are all people and wejust crave some sort of human
connection. Yeah, and if youstart taking it and just making

(34:35):
it super sterile and taking anypersonality and vitality out of
it, what are you even doing?
Yeah, well, so like with myclients, I try to, I try to
create like friendships orfriendships whatever, joke
around and just to make theentire situation just more

(34:55):
pleasant for everybody. But as Isaid, a lot of companies seem to
forget about that and theimportance of building
relationships and communication.
And we're not robots. You know,we humans, for some reason crave
interaction with other humans. Idon't get it. We are the thing.

(35:18):
It is the way it is. Yeah. Well,you said you didn't like working
with people. I'm the same way.
It's like, especially whenyou're in like retail sales.

i Yeah, let me clarify. I like working with the
people I choose. Okay. So like,with my clients, and with like,
even collaborations like this,like, we get to choose each
other. It's like a mutual, it'slike, it's like mutual trust,
mutual respect. And then I say,like, mutual delight, like, I'm
like, we're both excited. Youknow what I mean? So I do like

(35:45):
working with people, when allthree of those factors are
involved. I don't like feelinglike I'm in a fishbowl, and
people are just like, oh, butlook at the class. Yeah,
exactly. Like your hands for menot working with people that's
like, oh, and they just kind oflike, you know, you don't know
what you're gonna get, right?
You're like, Okay, I like beingmore selective in who I work

(36:06):
with. Because it's because of myvalues and my mission and like,
what I really want to be doingin the world. So

Vanessa (36:14):
it's kind of a mirror of the queer community. Like
instead of queer community, wesay choose your own family, you
make your own family, and yourcase of choosing your own
clients say, but there are a lotof people I will work with.
Like, people have a certainhardcore, political following.

(36:38):
And I won't work with them formy safety and just I don't want
to deal with their bullshit.
Yeah, yeah. It makes findingclients hurt. But the ones that
I do find the incredible peopleso and then you actually look
forward to working with themagain. Exactly like the adage
the customer's always right.

(36:59):
It's just complete bullshit.
Absolute complete bullshit. Iwas I was listening to a podcast
about that I forget which onelike, since I joined feminist
podcasters collective. Like,I've added all those shows to my
apple podcasts. And so they likeautomatically start playing with
everyone to listen to that showor not. So that popped up on

(37:20):
something, I think, but it'strue, because the customer is
not always right. I got

asked, I applied for a customer service job when
I was like, 16 I had no businessapplying for a customer service
job at 16. I worked at like apizza shop. I was like, Okay,
now let's try to get a corporatejob. The one of the questions
they asked me was, is thecustomer always right? And I'm
like, Um, yes. They're like,wrong answer. But you always

(37:51):
have to act like they're right.
I was like, we even told me thiswas like a nuanced question.

Vanessa (37:57):
Yeah. Oh, I know what I heard on a YouTube channel that
I listened to while I editphotos is called me and the fax
service. Fun pansexual bone guythat just read stories off of
Reddit? Oh, my God, that it's, Ilove it. But that was one of

(38:17):
them. And like, there's one useraining story about one person
whose job like, the owner had asign up said the customer is not
always right. And they stuck tothat. No one should put up with
abuse. Now, just like, justbecause you're a customer
doesn't mean you're entitled.
And you're not a customer untilyou've actually paid

(38:37):
technically,

I think that's something I've had to learn in
my business is like how to setboundaries, like both with my
time with money withexpectations, like just like
really setting clear boundaries,clear expectations and being
okay, with being like, yeah, youtrampled this, like, we're,
we're not going to right, we'renot going collaboratively here.

(39:00):
Right? Like, now we need to comeback. So, um, and I think most
of the time when you do it withkindness, like people are
gracious, and they're not like,I've never had had one lady
argue with me. That's it

Vanessa (39:15):
never seen ever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, boundaries,
like bringing that bringing thatup. It's actually very
important. We've really strayedfrom copywriting but whatever.
That's okay. Where's your lifeadvice for people as Yeah, well
listen to show maybe, I don'tknow. But boundaries are so
important in business too. LikeI ran into it yesterday. I

(39:39):
fallen into a habit of like anumber of houses I photographed
lately been really cool. And Iprice my photography and
packages like 20 photos, 30photos, whatever. But I keep
finding myself like taking abunch extra. And I still want to
edit them all. So but then Idon't feel right charging. For
all this extra for Notice that Idid. So like last night I was,

(40:03):
you know, there's a couple daysago, I went up to like 20 More
photos than what I was chargingfor. And I got so fucking burned
out. And there's no reason forme to be doing it. It's just I
feel like I have to in order tocapture everything. But if a

(40:23):
client's willing to pay formore, then it's finally nice to
just start charging for it. Butthat's a boundary. And my
northern girlfriend, I have anorder girlfriend, a southern
girlfriend for people wonderingGordon girlfriend Silikal.
Southern is, well, Jenny, she'son the show. Anyways, last
night, she's like, You need toset boundaries just for your

(40:44):
mental health, because I was soburnt out on editing the past
couple days, I was just drainingas usually 30 photos will take
me about an hour and a half toedit. And I was like six hours
and like, I was hyper focused oneverything. And it's because as
you said, like, if you don't setboundaries, then you start

resenting, yeah, resenting

Vanessa (41:09):
and just losing your way. So

it's and people will treat, like, if you let
them trample them, they're goingto trample them. And often they
don't, they don't even do itintentionally, I don't think are
maliciously they just like, if Igive somebody an open gate,
they're gonna throw it right.
Yeah, I had some ideas for you.
So on, like three things youcould do to put a boundary in
place with that. One is, youcould send them the, you know,

(41:37):
just just edit, like a certainnumber, however many you
promised them. And then say, Iactually ended up taking like,
about 30 More, and I would, youknow, I can send you those as
well, for X amount more. Theother thing you could do is to
in, you could have a biggerpackage, right? So like, create

(41:59):
another tier where there's morephotos, and then they get those
and I have one of those two.
Okay, good. And then the thirdthing is like to save those
pictures and keep them foryourself, and use them for your
own social media, your ownmarketing your own motion. Those
are yours, like your mind.

Vanessa (42:14):
Yeah, that's another thing for people to remember
when you create things like whenyou create when other
photographers, you own thosephotos, the people that you take
the photos for, don't own them,you do. They're renting them
from you. And be sure you makethat clear. I haven't read on my
invoice. All properties remainan opera off offer remain the

(42:37):
property of Vanessa Joy. Bypaying for this invoice. You're
getting access to use him formarketing.

I would be curious to see what other copywriters do
I specifically tell them, Idon't own this because because I
don't want to be. First of all,I pray for like a lot of the
same kind of client like a tonof interior designers. And I
would never want them to think Ilike copied and pasted from
somebody else. But second ofall, I want them to note like
now it's yours and you get to dowhat you want with it. I can I

(43:05):
do keep a copy because I'morganized. For you know what
people do to their filessometimes. But yeah, I wouldn't
be so curious. Like, what thelike, it's fascinating to me,
because I didn't know that aboutphotographers that you own the
pictures. So I just be sointerested to know like what
other industries do around thatguy? Like podcast? Producers? Do

(43:31):
they keep the pot? Is it theirs?
Or is it the podcasters sofascinating. Like these
questions and more will not be

Vanessa (43:40):
like producers as in like, the software we're doing
it on like Riverside or toperson. So like, let's

say you had a producer like you had like
somebody edit it and do all thecut and like add the music and
whatever, you know, whateverthings they do, and release it
like do they own the podcast? Ordo you the podcaster on the
podcast?

Vanessa (44:03):
I mean, that's a very good question. Like

if anyone listening knows the answer, please. Phone
in one 800 997

Vanessa (44:13):
For the one down the center one 800 Call att. Yeah,
that's because that's actuallysomething when this podcast
first started. It was acollaborative effort between
myself and a few other LinkedInconnections. And I wasn't even
the one that named it. I can'tremember. I can't remember if it

(44:36):
was Tara or Liam that namedafter listening. Maybe they'll
tell me. But like it started offas like a collaboration. I
wasn't on every episode. I wasdoing the editing and stuff like
that for it to production behindthe scenes. But like we had, we
had more hosts and every weekwas just it was completely

(44:58):
different with different hostsand stuff, it wasn't like this
format that it is now. And thenpeople just started to kind of
like lose interest in it. And Idropped with once every two
weeks instead of every week,which I'm back to every week.
And I'm like, we have a discordchannel. And that's got really
quiet. And like, I don't wantthe show to die. And by trying

(45:22):
to keep it as a collaborativeeffort, getting everybody
scheduled together, it's just apain because everyone's
professional during their ownjobs in different time zones,
different parts of the world,whatever. So I wound up just
taking over the show. And now Iconsider this my show. But is

(45:42):
it?

I think it is, yeah, change of change of guards
there.

Vanessa (45:48):
But there's like actual intellectual property with it,
you

actually brought up something really interesting,
which I think that we think thatlike collaborating with other
people is going to be easier.
But I actually, I mean, I liketo work alone. But I think that
collaboration is the harder wayto go. In a lot of cases, it's
well worth it. Like itdefinitely like increases your
efforts and increases your reachand you know, all of those

(46:14):
wonderful benefits, but I thinkthat is definitely something
that people overlook is like it.
And that's why it's important tochoose a good, like a
collaborator that like thevalues are the same as you they
are as committed as you areright. Like they're as excited
to show up as you because ittakes a lot of energy to like,
come together and do somethingtogether. So it does

Vanessa (46:36):
it really does. And that's yeah, now I have it set
up. Where in our Discord, I'mjust posting the cure art
recording the sound because Iused to like to try to Okay,
well, when can you record werecording is always fine, then
sometimes I'd show them no one,no one would be there. So now

(46:58):
like, throughout July, I'd guessI view it guess last week is
coming up. And so now I justhave them scheduled. And I'm
like, I can have one co host oneach episode, if you'd like via
co hosts just heart react this,and then I'll schedule it with
you. But because you have tokind of keep it simple, stupid.

(47:19):
Yeah. And it's fun to try to becollaborative and collaborative.
That's a hard word to. And whenyou can do, it's great. But then
you always have to remember thatpeople are gonna get burnt out,
people are gonna get bored, likelife circumstances change. And
that's perfectly fine. So, butif you have passion for

(47:40):
something, and you can takeownership to it. Yeah.

And I would say don't let a collaborators lack
of interest or lack of energy,like, you know, if you are still
interested in doing it andexcited to do it, keep it going,
you know. So yeah.

Vanessa (47:57):
It's fun to take some ownership to so like, during the
show, I've taught myself videoediting, I've taught myself
about recording sound design,and more web design I've ever
done it before. But yeah, youcan just learn so much when you
take on a project.

That is one thing I'll say about entrepreneurship,
like you learn a lot. It is afast track education, not just
about like the stuff you've justsaid, like website and Mark. I
mean, you do have to learn tomarket like every business has
to market themselves. So whenpeople start businesses and
become entrepreneurs, they'realso signing up to be marketers,

(48:34):
you know, and in some cases, webdesigners and like copywriters,
like there's, you end uplearning a lot. And I also think
you end up learning, like a lotabout yourself, like, I have
never come up against, like myown inner demons, for lack of a
better word, like the blocksthat that are really like, wow,

(48:55):
that is not until I was abusiness owner, you know, like,
it just increases your selfawareness. I think so much like,
you have to overcome stuff, orit's going to impact your
revenue and your finances andmaybe the roof over your head.
Who knows. So

Vanessa (49:11):
that's one of the main things I have the place wise for
people starting a business isDon't quit your day job at
first.

Oh my god, thank

Vanessa (49:19):
you learn what you're doing first. Yeah. Because it's
hard. I had a foot in the doorand doing it because I ran. I
ran a small business for a longtime. I didn't own it, but I
essentially owned it withouthaving ownership. And so I know
you've had experience doing itbefore too. So you know, and but
still, there's unexpected thingslike in my case, when I came

(49:40):
out, my business diedcompletely. And so suddenly I
could have expected so all myincome died and I still haven't
it's been three years and Istill haven't gotten it back.
But so you have to be ready forall of those just what ifs, but
the rewarding side of it isfucking amazing. You can be your
own boss, if you want to.
Suddenly They just fuck offhalfway through the day and go

(50:00):
get a margarita, you can do it,you know? Something be said for
that. Wow, it's been 15 minutes.
So we should probably start toget to the wrap up. So when
people hire you, like, do youhave like, like a scope or range

(50:20):
of scopes that you take on forprojects? Do you do like
individual pages on a websiteall the way up to like creating
an entire everything or how's itwork?

Yeah, I try not to do individual pages because of
your word before cohesion, Iwant everything to sound the
same and feel the same.
Sometimes past clients will comeget one page like added on which
I love doing that, because like,we've already felt that but um,
and I just did this awesome. Onepage website, like it's just a

(50:51):
one page, but it says everythingfor this New Jersey meatball
company. Like it was so muchfun. As she pronounces it
meatballs. It was very fun. So,but usually like the websites,
we do like three to five pages,and then I have some web
designers that will actuallywe'll do like 1015 Page

(51:13):
websites, because they're doingportfolio pages for realtors or
interior designers, which issuper fun. I love those because
then we get like so muchcontent, you know, not just
website copy, but also likestuff they can use on social.
And then from there, I do lotsof like strategy sessions. So
like helping people figure outwhat to say on social media or

(51:35):
figure out what to say in like,with somebody who will just sit
and like workshop somethingtogether. And then the brand
messaging guides, and I havelike little services here and
there. Like if somebody needs abio, you know, or always, always
take on something special ifit's the right person, like I
had this local builder, and hecan ask me to do anything he

(51:58):
wants to do. And I'm like, yes,because he's he's a great
person, you know, like, it's allabout like him as a person. But
like, some people asked me to dothings in like, oh, I don't do
that. Like, hey, if I'd likedrive to somebody's like newly
built palace and be like, I amthe photographer, can we just do
anything?

Vanessa (52:18):
When you find people like that happening in your
life, hold on to them, becausethat's huge. Yeah.

Most of the time, it's like, people do like a
website, plus build in whateverother Life Pieces they're
working on, you know. So I lovewhen somebody like, you know, to
your point before of like, Don'tquit your day job. I also think
like when you're starting abusiness, you've often don't
even know what you don't knowyet. Like, you don't even know

(52:45):
your message you don't know,you're not clear on everything.
So like, I always say like,let's start small. And then we
can always like build, we canalways grow, we can always
change. But like when people arejust like all in at the very
beginning. I'm like, Oh my God,you're gonna change so many
things in like, two years. Yeah.

Vanessa (53:03):
And you can do them yourself really easily doing
that. Like, as you said, startslow. And learn as you go. When
you said you don't know what youdon't know, that is like, if
anything sums up small businessownership. Now, in a nutshell,
it's that phrase.

I'm doing a podcast on the things I wish I knew
before I started a business theyown. I think it's two weeks from
now. But even after doing theepisode, I was like, damn it,
there were like so many thingsthat I wanted to include,
because I've made a lot ofmistakes where I just like jump
into something and like Uberlike that habit. Like I just go
for it and then find out thehard way that I hate it. And so

(53:48):
I kind of did that with thispod, not I don't hate the
podcast, I just jumped into it.
And then I was like, Oh my God,there's like 20 more million
things I would have added soyeah, it's our it's our pen,

Vanessa (53:57):
but it's so hard to keep it on. Fourth property.
You're being you're talkingright now you're not getting
paid to write when the othersorry. It's just like that's the
end because flight going crazy.
So like people want to hire youto price like by the hour by the
package by service.

Yeah, everything is by the package. Unless it's like
a very, you know, unless it's aservice that like fits into a
nice tidy little box, which Ionly have a couple of so those
are like will tune ups thingsand then the brand messaging
guide. But yeah, most things areby project. And I love that.
And Iwould encourage like you know,

(54:36):
it's different industries needto price themselves in different
ways. But it really really workswith me because it's an
advantage to the client wherelike they're getting my best
work at my most excited andcreative level. And I'm also
being like compensated for whatI'm doing so

Vanessa (54:55):
yeah, and they don't have to worry about unexpected
bill, that kind of thing. Right?

Exactly. And I know like I can take on this many
projects at a time so I don'tlike overbooked myself and just
go no, you know, like, I don'tknow how much money I'm getting
this month. So I have to likeschedule 10 different clients,
you know, it's very like, Okay,I've three. And that's it. Yeah,

Vanessa (55:16):
I just want the scariest parts of having your
own business is never knowingwhere your next paycheck is
coming from right now, you know.
So people, I'm going to give youa chance to the end of the
episode to like plug all yourstuff, but I would highly
suggest anybody that has theirown company that started
quickly. Look at Emily's brandmessaging blueprints, brand

(55:39):
blueprints. Those really help.
And especially if you canestablish you can always edit
them in the future too. But ifyou can establish yourself and
make yourself remember by thinksof symbols, colors, and word

(56:00):
choices how you use stuff likethat. Just themes. People
remember you for that. So Ithink we've talked in previous
episodes when you think whatcompany do you think of when you
think of the color pink? LikeBarbie? Yeah, Barbie or T Mobile
or like Victoria's Secret orsomething? Yeah, so but they can
like, pop it in your head. So Idon't have stumps me or what's

(56:27):
going on? Anyways. So I want toI told you about this head time.
I'm gonna start try somethingnew. Oh, yeah, I can't wait and
of episodes. I was like, my cohost, Jess. They always do when
when they're hosting. Theyalways do an icebreaker. I'm

(56:48):
like, Well, what can I do I mybrain isn't going to be able to
figure out nice Praeger. I justlook to my left and I have a box
of cards against humanity overthere. That'd be fine. So I
opened it up and found all theblack cards and at the end, so
what we want what I'm thinkingwe do is we each get a card.

(57:09):
Yep. And I guess I'm just kindof stealing this from Nikki that
that did last sorry, Nikki, withyour with your cards at the end.
But it's good. I didn't make

you love that. Yeah, it's a compliment.
It's flattery.

Vanessa (57:22):
She'll be on the show in a few weeks.

I think you should go first and show me now it's
done. I don't even

Vanessa (57:28):
know how it's done.
This is this is going to be thefirst time but yeah. So what
we're going to do is we're goingto pick cards for me. I'm just
going to just grab one atrandom. I'm not going to look at
it. I'm just gonna set it down.
And how I was seen for like youlike here's the deck. Yeah. And
just tell me like 25% 50% So

can you see the crack on the top? The crack. Oh,
it moved now Oh, yeah. No, I cansee a nice crack. That first
crack is yeah, this one. Yeah, Imight go to the next crack. But
that's okay. It doesn't matter.
The next crack see that? Yeah,that's right. She that was the
one I had my eye on. Yo. Okay.

Vanessa (58:13):
Now, do you want the card on the bottom or the top?

Oh my god. That's a that's a big question. Okay.
Bottom

Vanessa (58:22):
we're learning some stuff about Yeah.

I think I learned what uh, this is my here's my
sheltered secret. I think Ilearned what a bottom was from
cards of humanity cards fromhere.
Educational friends, and I waslike, wow, yep. First time here.
Everything.

Vanessa (58:42):
I didn't really know what it was until fairly
recently, too. So. Okay. My cardyour card. Okay. You want me to
go first? Yeah. So what we'regoing to do is we have to come
up with something we're going touse the prompt on the back of
the card and then come up with aresponse to it select response
like what you would pick a whitecard from parents consuming it

(59:04):
for Okay, and it can be anywherefrom G rated all the way up to
the most filthy shit you canthink of. Okay,

so I can't then I can't share the episode with my
mom if it's filthy

Vanessa (59:17):
as you can choose which I don't I don't talk to my mom
she's a she's a See you nextThursday. But so Okay, mine is I
am going under cleanse this weeknothing but kale juice and
wonder if it's going to reversethis. Oh

my god that it's Yeah, it did. It did

Vanessa (59:41):
nothing but kill juice and I just got a good one. So
when I ran that manufacturingcompany, there was a guy that
would like drink a bottle oflike Lipton iced tea and then he

(01:00:03):
would use it as both a spittoonand an ashtray. So my cleanse is
nothing but kale juice and thewhatever nasty shit that was in
the bottom of that bottle mix ofchewing tobacco and cigarette
butts. And a little you inflictthat upon yourself. It popped

(01:00:26):
into my head you could use MilkyWay's What's the fun? Yeah,

Emily Aborn (01:00:32):
no I teasing you know this teasing. Okay, I love
your answer. That's awesome. Wediscussed today.

Vanessa (01:00:39):
Did it? Okay, you ready for yours? Yes. All right. I got
99 problems, but blink eight one

I'm a kale juice cleanse.
Harry here God that's a verygood one full circle. like kale
juice cleanse ain't my sisterNoah and I were just talking
about this like we're done withthat crap.

Transcending Humanity (01:01:08):
There's no real plane any of it. Yeah.
levitated and like sound our youknow, inner guidance.

Vanessa (01:01:16):
If you want to be healthy, just don't eat like
shit. Eggs not eat lesscalories. So

I do love kale though. And kale chips for the
record for all the listenerskale.

Vanessa (01:01:27):
Okay, well, if you want to get Emily gift Sinco you're
gonna regret that, likesomeone's gonna listen to this
and send like a pallet full ofsomething. Like what the fuck is
this and your husband's gonna belike, I've heard of stalkers,
but like people sending kill.
Welcome to welcome to Trump'sAmerica. Okay,

I think it's actually pronounced Merica just
Mario.

Vanessa (01:01:52):
just strictly a direct Fuck yeah. With the the c part
is actually three K's. Yeah, I'mnot very patriotic that anyone
who follows my social media.
Today, I'm on my face. And I'mthreads but on the street, I
live on the went through andplanted these big, like, of

(01:02:13):
American flags in everyone'sfront yard. And they've served
in a various military branch,they get that one. But I'm like,
what the star spangled bullshitsays like a lot of us in the
trans community, the Americanflag is actually very traumatic
to see when I was driving downthe street just being surrounded
by these things is like springsurrounded by hate, which sucks.

(01:02:35):
That should not be we should nothave to be afraid of the flag of
the country that we live in.

Okay, Vanessa, if I send you a thank you card, which
I'm going to I'm going to askthem for a different stamp.
Because don't I get an I haveall these freedom stamps and I'm
really annoyed by them. Like I'mlike, I don't want the like, I
feel weird sending them topeople. I'm like, I know.
I hope this is okay.

Vanessa (01:03:02):
I wish there would be a more creative stamp for freedom
stamps. Yeah,

yeah, but I'm getting a special you're gonna
get a special stamp.

Vanessa (01:03:10):
Mostly kill

45 cents or whatever.

Vanessa (01:03:13):
It's I think it's 60 cents. Oh, she first stamp.
Yeah, don't

even doing this is why we raise our prices. We need
to raise their price.

Vanessa (01:03:22):
I know. All right. So this.

This was fires. Do you want to know should we do
that? I'm gonna do that. Shouldwe get one more card? Waltzing

Vanessa (01:03:31):
through the wrap up? Do you want to do another card?

I don't know.
What's the wrap up? Is thatanother thing? It's

Vanessa (01:03:37):
working in the summer stuff and tell people where to
find you and shit like that. Oh,

okay. Then we should do one more card. Just
wonder card. Yeah, I'll let youchoose both of them. This time
you chose you. I liked yourchoice better than mine.

Vanessa (01:03:48):
So you think this is a game worth doing a future
episode? Yes.

It's so Okay, cool.
It puts people on the spot givesthem just enough like you know,
yeah,

Vanessa (01:03:56):
nuff stuff. Yeah. Okay, so wanchain Right. Yeah. Two
coats. Do you want my right orleft?

Right, right.

Vanessa (01:04:07):
Okay. Your card. Blank.
High five, bro

that's a hard one sending humanity high five, bro.

Vanessa (01:04:20):
Get something on your nose girl. You made obviously
here to stop it. Oh,

wow. The time?
Yeah,

Vanessa (01:04:29):
I know. I look over there like, and for mine. What
are my parents hiding from me?
And I've always thought like forthe longest time that one of
them isn't my real parents. So Imean, I look like both of them.
But whose child Am I

get yourself on? 23 and me Are you okay? Like

Vanessa (01:04:59):
I found that After my mother's side on there, and then
the shit ton of like secondcousins I've never heard of, and
no one on my dad's side, but aslooked like my dad, like from
the profiles, so, but I willclick my mom from the front.

Oh, you know what you can do your dad, would he
take a paternity test? And I wasgonna say excuse me this is an
incentive to not shame becausehe's passed on so

Vanessa (01:05:21):
it's not insensitive. I tell people about sulfur
specsheet stuff all the time.
So, okay,

so that's not the way we're gonna find out.
You'll maybe it'll,you know, you'll you'll you get
relatives closer to you on23andme It just takes time
sometimes. Like, that's how Ifound my dad, honestly. Um,
yeah.

Vanessa (01:05:44):
I did an Ancestry DNA.
I want to fish it. No,

they do not say you actually have some people take
some people are crazy like meand take all the tests. But then
some people only take ancestry.
Some people only take 23 me soyou actually end up with like
different people in differentplaces. Like my cousins on
ancestry? Not at 23andme forexample.

Vanessa (01:06:06):
Oh, maybe I'll do 23andme then. Yeah, do you? See?

Gotta put that DNA out there. Yeah, I need to get
your hands of other Yeah, that'sthat's our takeaway for today.
There's

Vanessa (01:06:20):
no privacy left in this world. So

I agree. That's why I went for it.

Vanessa (01:06:27):
So some final thoughts.
Do you have anything final thingbefore you start promoting your
shit? Like, final thing to getout there

is just that this was fun. And this was a great
example of like, whatcollaboration can look like, you
know, we each bring something tothe table. And also the person
listening hopefully gotsomething enjoyable. Hopefully.
Hopefully you didn't, didn't

Vanessa (01:06:50):
you? Oh, they did?
Whether or not they did. And ifyou did, subscribe to the
Patreon Yes.
patreon.com/transferring.
Humanity and Emily, you have onetear, right? Oh, no, no, no, no,
no, no. We have a podcast atleast. Yeah. Well, then let's do
your Plex. Like, where can theyfind you? How do they hire you?
Or whatever. Since

you're already listening to a podcast, you can
find content with character onany of the podcast platforms
that you listen to as well asYouTube? I just put it on
YouTube. Yeah, me. I'd say theeasiest way to like find
everything and like what linksare specific do is just Emily a
born.com. And that's like acornwith a beat. And that's it.

Vanessa (01:07:33):
That's That's easy.
That's really easy. God, I'm the

only Emily acorn.
really true. It's amazing. Yeah.

Vanessa (01:07:42):
What are the odds of that?

Although, yes. And my sister in law stole my old
name. Actually. Her name isEmily. And she took my name. So
I handed that off. Oh,

Vanessa (01:07:52):
just passing it on.
Yeah. Got it turns out there's abig photographer out there named
Vanessa Joy. I didn't know thatwhen like Joy. Joy isn't the
surname that I would have chosenbut I needed to for legal
reasons. But Vanessa's name Ijust always wanted. But then it
turns out there's another bigphotographer named Vanessa Joy.

(01:08:13):
So I imagine she had someconfusing messages. It seems

like a common or you know, Joy. This seems like
something I would combine withVanessa but I like it
personally. It makes me it makesme feel happy. And it matches
your purple vibe like superwell. So

Vanessa (01:08:31):
I definitely went full purple today. Yeah, so I had to
reapply some of it because I hada photo cake before this and I
sweat it all off even wassetting spray. Well, this was
fun. This was very educational.
Like it's kind of one two punchwith you. And then last week
with Gianna in her branding andphotography. So you too should
leave. Yeah, she's the anticorporate brand photographer to

(01:08:57):
see have a podcast. No, shedoesn't. But she should

all look her up.
Yeah.

Vanessa (01:09:09):
Yeah, if you follow me on Instagram, she actually just
tagged me in a real today. Shewas on the show last week. But
the to you between the visualand the writing. You might be
able to make some magic happenmatch made in heaven. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me. Yeah, this was fun.
And God for everyone elselistening next week. I have

(01:09:36):
Chloe Milligan I think it's wellsorry, Chloe. If you listen to
this, I should know your name bynow. Yeah, Clary Milligan is
going to be our guest and I havea guest host Kate rattle from
legal burnouts is going to beguest hosting. And we're going
to be talking to Chloe aboutbeing usually so you know,
Emily, this show. I'm hardcoreatheist. A lot of our hosts So

(01:10:01):
fairly anti religious as well.
But I know that we have to havesome listeners of faith be at
one faith or another. And soChloe is a strong Christian left
his Christian and she happens tobe trans too. So we're gonna be
talking about the burnout andthe ups and downs of life that
she feels, which should be apretty interesting conversation.
So

I really want to listen. Yeah,

Vanessa (01:10:21):
I'm excited for that one. I'm really excited for that
one. So leftist,

trans Christian.
Yes, I want to listen. Yeah,

Vanessa (01:10:28):
it's something you don't hear of much. Like, I've
been following her for a while.
And I'm like, boy, that can't beeasy. So I'm curious to learn
more about her.

But maybe you could get listener questions
beforehand and like, see ifanybody has anything they want
you to ask if you feltcomfortable with that, not like
telling you what to do with yourshow. I just have a question for
her.

Vanessa (01:10:53):
Oh, well, if you have a question for her, just ask her
through me.

Okay. I'll ask it are there so that we can keep
them we can keep them inmystery.

Vanessa (01:11:01):
There you go. All right. I will see you all next
week. And transcending humanity.

And toodles bye.
Thank you. Where is the

Vanessa (01:11:13):
end? Oh, there it is.

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Copywriting, Branding, and Building Connections with Emily Aborn - Episode 45

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Copywriting, Branding, and Building Connections with Emily Aborn - Episode 45