April 21, 2023 • 55 mins
In this week's episode, we have Devin, Erica and Vanessa talking about the difference between performative and authentic Allies!
This is the episode to send to your friends that want to know what they can do to truly be an Ally to not just Transgender, but all marginalized communities.
Websites of our hosts mentioned in the episode:
Devin: Trans Rally - https://transrally.org
Erica: Oh... Erica - https://www.oherica.com
Thank you for joining us; we will see you next week! <3
Executive Producer and Host: Vanessa Joy: https://linktr.ee/vanesstradiol
Vanesstradiol Podcast - Copyright © 2023-2025 Vanessa Joy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa (00:10):
Okay, now it's working.
I was trying to save it to afolder that didn't exist
anymore. So, okay, there we go.
Hello, welcome back totranscending humanity. This is
episode three. Today we arejoined by Devin and Erica, two
new hosts with us today, thetopic of conversation is very
topical, if you follow me onLinkedIn, it is how to be an
(00:32):
ally. And when I mean that, Imean an authentic ally and not a
performative ally. And we willget into the differences between
those here and our conversation.
But first, I would like to haveDevin and Erica introduce
themselves and say a little bitabout themselves and all that
wonderful stuff. So Devin, goahead. Yeah, hi, I'm Devin
pronouns, are they them? Live inChicago. Basically, I have a
(00:54):
background in got my degree insocial work, but I work in
financial services now as acompliance advisor. So I'm
basically like Toby from theoffice telling financial
advisors No. So obviously lovedby everyone. Some ways to do it.
Exactly. And hey, you know, Ican work in this field. And I
(01:14):
can actually, like, make a smalldifference by saying, Hey, you
can't promise things you can'tactually, you don't know what's
gonna happen.
Devin (01:24):
In June of last year, I started an organization called
Trans rally. It's a membershiporganization for members and
friends of the trans communitywere 170 879 strong. The idea is
to provide a safe space forpeople to network
professionally, to get internaljob posting referrals, or to
build a financial base for thecommunity.
Vanessa (01:48):
Awesome.
Erica, you're up?
Erica (01:52):
Hi, I'm Erica Vogel.
Sorry, I just got a weird alerton my computer buzzing
everything up.
No, nope. We can cut and startagain. Okay, sorry. I might
leave at the end just because Ilike stuff.
Vanessa (02:07):
At the show, you get bloopers if you cut it? Well,
there's the humanity part oftranscending.
Erica (02:14):
Yeah, hi, Erica. De, I'm still doing it. And then this
encapsulates me entirely, I getflustered and I'm you know, I
just started talking. Hi, I'mErica clearly just had a weird
issue in the intro, theirpronouns are she her queer
transgender woman. I am a seniorproduct manager in financial
technology. And before that, Iwas struck designer, illustrator
(02:39):
photographer, also with big,other big businesses. I'm
married to a wonderful queerwoman, we have a child at home.
And I have three adult kids, allof whom are part of the LGBTQ i
a rainbow. So cool. So yeah.
Well, welcome both of you. It'swonderful to have you on the
(03:02):
show. And I'd say let's go andjust dive in about being an
ally.
Vanessa (03:10):
To give a quick synopsis, a performative ally,
is essentially a corporation inJune where they're in LA, as
long as it's convenient to them.
So like, it'll be the peoplethat say, Oh, I appreciate you
that kind of stuff. But theywill talk the talk, but they're
(03:30):
not going to walk the walk. Andauthentic ally is the person
that is willing to get down inthe trenches with you. They're
the people that will losefriends and family to be an
ally. Because it be, as you bothknow, coming out all that is,
(03:52):
you're gonna lose friends andfamily. And it's terrifying. And
it's hard. And it's sad, andit's heartbreaking. And
an authentic ally is going tohave that as well. And it's hard
to find people that are willingto do that, but they're going to
(04:13):
be ostracized just fordeciding to put humanity above
whatever else soSo yeah, let's just talk about
performativeexperiences that you too have
had all that so just knock itout.
Devin (04:35):
Yeah, Erica.
Erica (04:38):
Sure.
performative ally ship isdefinitely not my favorite. I
prefer closer to the varietythat that you spoke about
already.
In my day job, I work infinancial technology, as I said,
but as part of my day job, I ampart of the national leadership
team of our LGBTQI erg.
(05:00):
ERG affinity group depending onwhat you guys call it, right,
andI've been it's coming up. Right
now we have a robust calendar,and we do a lot of things to
celebrate out actually be havingmy own event as part of it.
And that's the way I think a lotof sort of middle of the road
companies that that they're kindof good in that month. We're
(05:22):
great in that month. But we'rereally good all year long
something every single month wesend people to we're
conferences. And I think mostcompanies don't get anywhere
near that. And frankly, mostcompanies sort of rely on the
ones that decide to do itinformally, if not actually
squashing the idea, right? Sooh, that's performative. If, if
(05:42):
you only care about pride inJune, where you make money off
of pride as a big part of yourrevenue, and you don't care
about others, the rest of theyear, you're really a
performative ally, in my book,that way I kind of differentiate
really good allies is, it's notthe person that says they're an
ally, just online, or maybe toyou in person, but you never see
them show up. That's really morelike, finding a good way to
(06:06):
voice tolerance. In my mind, I'mtolerant of you, like, you don't
mess with me, I don't mess withyou. That's tolerance. And Ally,
to me, is the person that speakswhen I'm not in the room, and
the subject comes up. Right? IfI'm in the room, you guys
believe I'm gonna be talkingabout it. And they'll be
supporting me. But they have thecourage, the the strength, the
(06:30):
fortitude, and the humanity tostand up when I'm not in the
room.
And that's not an easy thing todo. And I think, yeah, and I
think a lot of people sort offeel like, was it worth it? I
have a lot of people in my lifewho are allies in a lot of
places in their life. So yeah,as you caught up and as some
people do lose friends, and theylose contact with family, but I
(06:52):
would say don't let thatdiscourage you. Because it's
probably not just this onething. Right? Yeah. If you lose
your dad over supporting peoplewith trans rights, there's
probably some other stuff goingon, too. So I don't want people
to feel like this is just sortof adds and maybe expedites
those situations. But yeah,anybody who chooses to give
(07:14):
their fellow person space to bethemselves, the benefit of the
doubt, does decides not to putthem in a box. There's someone
that's an ally. Yeah, everybodywho needs to put something in a
box has some work to do. Yeah,and it's unfortunate, I think
that we're gonna have to, like,distinguish people who are
allies, because we live in sucha hostile world. You know, like,
(07:36):
it should be that you're just aperson, I'm a person, we have
differences, cool, we bringsomething different to the
table. Cool. But like there arepeople who want to hurt other
people, and to basically useanything that they can as a
weapon, either for their ownself interest, or because I
guess they're sadists orsomething. But just it's
Vanessa (08:01):
it's not, it's not.
Coming up, hopefully, it doesn'tcome up as I'm trying to talk
here.
So my I have a friend that worksfor a large software company
that I'm not going to name it,but it's a large cost software
company that suddenly becameless large, because they did
some really shitty things totheir employees. But
(08:25):
so my friend was telling meabout the diversity groups at
that company. And it's all 100%.
Like that, in order foremployees to get involved, they
have to sign up through HR, butit's completely unpaid has to be
completely outside of businesshours is be completely outside
of all of your duties. Andeverything is completely outside
(08:48):
and it doesn't factor intoperformance reviews, nothing.
But the company can then use thefact that those programs exist,
that they're not paying for,they're not supporting in any
way. But they can use those asbragging rights. So that's just
dangerous, and it's not allyship at all. So if like, if
(09:09):
you're at a company that it doesstuff like that, it's it doesn't
benefit anybody, companies. If acompany wants to be an ally,
they, it's, they might lose somecustomers over initially. Yes.
But in the long run fromeverything I've seen, it kind of
works out for them in in thefuture. So I have I guess two
(09:32):
examples top of mind for myself,at least one is recently Dylan
Mulvaney with Bud Light.
Devin (09:42):
The fact that, you know, as every beer drinker, a lot of
beer drinkers are likesomeone who's trans,
you know, having any sort ofrelationship with Bud Light.
Okay, cool. Now let's justbasically
You know, a lot of board ofpeople in the board of directors
(10:02):
were like, Hey, this is we don'twant this, it's hurting us now.
So let's bring out commercialsthat are all about patriotic
flags and stuff. And illicitlystepping away from it. But I
think that there's also positivepositive examples to one, it's
like not very known, which isactually like, it's not great
(10:24):
that it's not known, but it's,in some ways, a little bit more
substantive. But T Mobile,actually, they have a bank
account for T Mobile customers,where people can actually change
their name to their preferredname.
MasterCard has a program calledthe true name, program, and you
can change your name without itbeing legally different. But for
(10:46):
example, T Mobile just decidedto just do that, which is
amazing. And they're like,they're not like, waving it
around and being like, hey,here's what we need people who
are queer, look at this. No,it's just like, hey, well, let's
just do it. That's, you know, inan act of being an ally, even if
it's something small that
Vanessa (11:06):
Makes me wanna switch to T-Mobile
Erica (11:10):
I work in FinTech, financial technology. And what
you're talking about Devon is atrend that's growing fast. I
think. There are other banks,other financial institutions
that have also rolled outsomething similar with a credit
card or whatever. But just aboutevery single bank is working to
bring that about, and we'llprobably see it widely
distributed everywhere, at leastin the US within the next year.
(11:32):
Which is a great thing for for avariety of reasons, but
particularly for trans and nonbinary.
Devin (11:39):
Yeah, to touch on that, too. And I'm just sorry for just
talking so much. But I just alot of stuff is happening with
this, because I'm in finance andeverything, too. I spoke to
someone who I'm not going toname their name, but they worked
at daylight bank. And that's oneof the FinTech companies that is
marketed towards queer at queercommunity. And there was an
(12:04):
insane expos. They I think itwas in New York Mac, and you
should all read it, like thereis. So there's someone suing
daylight bank, because it'sbasically like venture capitals,
trying to like wrap itself in aveneer of the peer community.
(12:25):
But actually, it's like, techbro. 1,000%. And like, they have
this crazy party in Mexico. Andnow they're trying to like,
basically do something withlike, making people surrogate
parents against their will orsomething. If something weird
like just it's it's a crazystory, but that's that happens.
(12:46):
And it's daylight Bank, which islike the queer bank, at least
that's what they were trying tomarket themselves as
Vanessa (12:57):
just makes it makes my brain hurt. Like, here in a T
Mobile makes things easy isrefreshing. Because I have 18 T.
And it is not easy at all, I didmy entire legal name change
right down to my birthcertificate. And right down to
the gender marker, I'm overcertificate, which is a pain in
(13:17):
the sto in Ohio. In some states,you can't do it at all but and I
updated I tried updating my namewith AT and T you can't do it
online. And I was able to quoteunquote, update my caller name
on my caller ID. But anytime Icalled someone it was coming up
with my dead name. So I calledcustomer support. They're like,
(13:41):
you can only do that at a store.
And so I went to the store nearme but it's an affiliate store.
And just the look I got walkingin from the person working there
kind of told me how that entirething was gonna go. But I live
in a very red area and I'mpretty visibly trans specially
in person. And you know, howdoes, but so they supposedly
(14:04):
changed it and updated it. Butit still hasn't changed. So it
shouldn't be that hard to changeyour names for sign up and phone
bill, but it is. Yeah. So waysthat companies, companies can be
(14:26):
authentic. That's the moreinteresting part because we can
we can rag on people for beingperformative all we want but in
the end, we're here to educateand to just bring knowledge to
people and ways that people cando that is as Devin said, don't
make a big deal out of it. Butyou can put it into your
(14:53):
company's mission statement.
There's little things likediscord perfectly Example. And
on my massive job, I applied todiscord occasionally. And they
put rate on their applicationthat part of what they do is
they give $25,000 towards genderaffirming surgeries. And that is
(15:17):
right there in the open on theirjob descriptions when you apply.
And it's just little things likethat, knowing that a company has
your back is extremelyimportant. And because
especially those of us in thejob hunt, we're looking around
for things that it's hard tofind a company, you don't know,
(15:39):
if you're going to be signing upfor a place that's just going to
be completely toxic. So seeingthings like that, where they put
it right there in writing, soyou can see it, but they're also
not bragging about it. Andthat's the important thing is to
be subtle, but be strong. And Ivery appreciative of this court
(16:02):
for doing that. There's a lot ofother companies that do that
name and things like that aswell. But
Devin (16:09):
what if you do something crazy? I mean, I would be like,
if someone's like, yeah, we'regiving $10 million to trans
lifeline. I'd be like, Greatthat all you want. That's
substantive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But don't be like, Oh, we boughtsomeone something for $400 and
then spend $10,000 on marketing,saying that you spent $400.
Yeah, like, why?
Erica (16:32):
Yeah, sorry. I think if we want to, sort of point to
people at smaller companies, ormedium companies, or even if
you're in a large company,towards improving your ally
representation of LGBTQ people,and by the way,
intersectionality allmarginalized give me a nice,
right. But what you should belooking for is your company has
(16:55):
a calendar of holidays, right?
I'm sure Christmas is on there.
And New Year's Memorial Day and,and Fourth of July, and Labor
Day and Thanksgiving in thiscountry, it's really easy to
find very published calendarsthat have days that covered
diversity, inclusive, transTrans Day of visibility, for
example, not just pride. So askyour company why they haven't
(17:18):
built out occur a calendar ofall diverse events, right?
Because they probably don't justhave, you know, Joe, this hat
white guy is the only employeeif they're even considering
this. Right. So that's, that'snumber one. Find those days,
your company doesn't have totake those days off. To do is
let people know, hey, it'sintersexuality day, it's lesbian
(17:39):
awareness a day, it's whateverday and write a little something
about it, and to start to bringthis to your attention. And like
I said, while you're at it,don't just stop with our
community if you're gonna gothat route. Yeah. I think
pulling together, you know,creating affinity groups,
whether they are usually thingsand in some way or casual ones
and getting people just talkingand visiting and building
(17:59):
community. And I think whathappens when you put some focus
on that as your company helpsnew people a find a group of
people to talk to, but it alsohelps maybe people newly to
their weirdness start to find aplace to go, many people feel
isolated. And so work on yourcompany, getting people together
to talk and plan and listen. Andthen of course, obviously, you
(18:22):
shouldn't celebrate all of thehigh queer holidays, right. But
there are plenty of conferences,there are plenty of courses
they're consumed. There's somuch out there to educate your
people on how to care for makespace for advocate and elevate
your career employees. It's nothard to find, it's not hard to
consume. If your company is notdoing these things, just pick
(18:43):
one and start and then pick thenext thing. Do you want your
company to improve? And they doall these things? Do they send
people to conferences? Do youhave internal content to
consume, right? There's alwayssomething to add.
Vanessa (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It sounds simple. And really, itdoesn't it's not even that
expensive to do it. Nope. Butthen people will start people
will be drawn to your company,especially employees. I mean,
because they're like, Okay, asafe place for us. You know?
Yeah, Starbucks, but then theStarbucks NASA has the whole
(19:24):
union thing going on. So youhave the two Yes, it's very
queer friendly. But they're alsotrying to get in bus so but I
see what you mean like because Iknow they have amazing
insurance. And but just beingwhen people find out that that
(19:46):
accompany is going to actuallyvalue them as a human, be it any
sort of minority, especiallyrace because in the end EIA
starts and ends with racism. Andeverything has to be
acknowledged, like you see, justlet it like little things like
(20:09):
why is Easter a holiday wherecompanies are closed, but not
Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Youknow, it's kind of food for
thought kind of things likethat. And it wouldn't be a big
deal to, to have holidays andnon traditional holidays, non
Judeo Christian holidays reallyis what it boils down to be. So
(20:33):
it, it doesn't take much. Butjust to kind of step back and
look at your employees, talk toyour employees. As a leader,
I've always valued. I don't liketo be a boss. As a leader, I've
always been in managementpositions in one way or another
and ran a business for 13 years.
(20:56):
And my leadership style was tolisten to the people, because
they're the ones actually doingthe work. They're the ones that
are doing the job day by day,seeing everything I full on
realize, I don't know, I knowthe gist of what they do. But I
don't know all that nittygritties. So when people are
(21:16):
listening to be it, workperformance, or b and d are just
knowing that they can go someonethat will just hear them, if
they're having a shitty day, youknow, you shouldn't be afraid to
go to your supervisor. I don'teven know what's going on with
all this. But it's just it'simportant to make sure that your
(21:38):
staff feels heard, especiallysince Gen Z, and soon Gen alpha
are joining the workforce. Andthose generations. Don't take
shit, it's there. I have so muchrespect for them. Because if
they don't like something,they're just gonna leave,
(21:58):
they'll find something else. Andso my dad go hurtling down the
stairs. So it's a couple ofthese needs to get with the
program here or else they'regoing to be left behind. And
yeah, there's my point rightthere.
Erica (22:14):
So I have a question for both of you. One of the ways I
like to talk about ally ship isto talk about the differences
between what it means to be myally, versus an ally to the
trans community versus Devon'sally. I think it it helps opens
up conversations that helppeople to know their role as an
ally, that I think we call thisout at the top allies act. Is it
(22:36):
as an action word, it meansaction. So what would it mean to
you Vanessa, for for me to bethe kind of ally that I would
need to be for you. And is thatany different than the rest of
the trans community?
Vanessa (22:49):
Personally, it's what I asked people I've made posts on
it, but usually it's onFacebook, and the algorithm just
makes it fall flat. But if yousee my content, and it resonates
with you, hit that fucking sharebutton, and comment on it, when
you share it set the privacy topublic, not just the friends
(23:13):
show support, that also helpsget our, our words out there. So
for me, most of my activism ison social media because I'm a
parent, I'm, if I'm notparenting, I'm job planning, so
I don't have time to go out andlike do things. So I do my
activism online. And the bestthing that people can do is help
(23:34):
me get my voice heard. And Ithink that goes for the entire
trans community because a lot ofus all of us online we're just
sitting there just screaming outto the void and it's some of us
our voices are heard more thanothers. And luckily we happen to
have some of those people onstaff at this podcast but others
(23:56):
you know, we're pushing we'restruggling and we just need to
be able to be heard and ifpeople really want to support us
it's as easy as clicking thatshare button or in my case I
have some family members that Ican't get the step going to
fucking Chick fil A and nomatter how much I say they're
(24:16):
like well you know othercompanies are bad too it's just
just like all they want you todo is just not go to chicken
Chick fil A that's all Iespecially don't take my kid
there and but I'll come downI'll come downstairs and throw
something away and I'll seetypically things in the garbage
I'm like sake it's cluck sick.
Yeah. I have the explicit Markchecked on this podcast so you
(24:40):
guys you too can just unload.
But no, I get up Chick fil A iYeah. The other day. The power
went out here for like a longtime and like it knocked out
everywhere. And Chick fil A wasincluded. I'm like, Yeah, fuck
you. So But anyways, yeah, forme, that is my main thing is to
(25:05):
be an ally to me, help me helpmy voice get out. So awesome.
What about you done?
Devin (25:11):
Yeah. So on a day to day at least, you know, I kind of
have a strong personalitiesslash on a stubborn son of a
bitch. So I honestly, for mepersonally, I don't have an
extreme attraction, I guess toany any, like a gender binary
necessarily. So non binary. So Ihonestly don't really care what
(25:34):
pronouns people use, I used toplay them. But if it's socially
fluid, and I feel like I looklike a dude, that day or
something, I'm okay. He has,that's fine. It's not a huge
deal. But for me, the thing Ithink, that I want people to do
on a day to day basis is dosomething difficult. Because
(25:56):
being a real ally is not easy.
And you know, there's that oneepisode or that one show?
Because like Dateline NBC orwhatever it is, like, what would
you do? And it was, you know,they were staging fake, like
arguments like abusive argumentsand that kind of thing. And
people would just walk by, andnot do anything. And that was
(26:17):
the whole premise of the show.
And I would say, just, if yousee something, say something,
and just speak up, I would sayto for myself, at least, you
know, I run trans rally, be amember, become a member, get
people jobs, because our goal isto like network, and to build an
(26:40):
economic base for people.
Because I think it's somethinglike 80% of people with autism
are unemployed, orunderemployed, and autism, and
the trans communities have apretty large overlap. And also
like our appearances, especiallyif you live in an unsafe area,
aka anywhere, not in the city,pretty much in the United
States, even in blue states. Ifyou live outside the city, it's
(27:04):
not safe, usually. And there'sjust so much that goes wrong.
Like there was a politicianrecently that I think it was in
like Montana that was censuredfor speaking out
Vanessa (27:20):
Zooey Zephyr; that's actually something I wanted to
talk about today.
Devin (27:25):
And, like, in the century letter, you know, they
misgendered her multiple times,so that it's a hard world out
there. And Ally ship that reallymatters is not easy. And it
might put you at risk, and itwill cost something either
monetarily or social. If it'strue ally ship, I will say.
Vanessa (27:50):
But it's also extremely rewarding.
Devin (27:53):
It's so rewarding. Yeah.
Because it makes you live anauthentic and genuine life. And
it actually does something forthe world. Instead of like, you
know, we're in this podcast, andeveryone competes with all those
stupid ads that just flood oureyeballs every day. Like I hate
personally Liberty Mutual ads asan example. Not a huge fan. No,
(28:16):
horrible. But we're competingagainst that for our humanity.
And so it's hard it just if youdo something genuine and
authentic, just be yourself.
Because that's what I would sayto anyone who's listening
Vanessa (28:39):
that the line if you hear something, say something
that sums up ally ship, really.
So another line I saw is realallies show up? Yep, it's that
simple. So
Erica (28:56):
yeah, I have some similarities to both you in
terms of what it means to be myally. I think number one is that
you identify yourself to be Iwant to know, right? And you ask
what I need. Right? And so if wewalk into the room and someone
says something that I don't needyou to get in front of me, I
need you to stand behind mewhile I handled the situation.
(29:19):
But there might be some whereyou're gonna get a cue from me
and it's okay for you to stepforward. So I think when we're
talking about ally ship, we canalways have to remember that
there's what the community needsbut you might not if you have
someone you know these trendsask they would like you to show
up so it's kind of goes back towhat you said show up take
(29:40):
action. Stand by behind me standwith me when I can't speak use
your words lend your privilegeto me. Yeah, right. That's
that's to me is what it means tobe my personal ally but it also
means like, be there with justbe in the moment with be because
I'm gonna like be loud about mytrans Joe weigh in, I want you
(30:00):
to share that and feel proudthat we get to stand together on
something that's about basichumanity. Obviously, when it
comes to the community, likehelp use your voice, but don't
talk over ours elevatemarginalized voices, right?
Devin (30:16):
Advocate for the bull to like, let me know in private,
please. It's like if you have apiece of paper on your foot or
something. Yeah, no.
Erica (30:25):
But when you see us post, something you've I think you
both have talked about earlier.
Share that, add a comment, like,but pass it on, elevate our
voices, don't speak over ours.
When you can't use your voice,use it. Right. And lend your
time. Like I said earlier, lendyour privilege show up with us.
If we're going to a rally showup. If you want to go to the
(30:47):
rally, and we don't know aboutit, let us know and show up.
Right. Speak up when we're notthere. That's my ally, the
people that I find out, didn'tspeak up for me when something
went down in the room that Iwasn't in there out of the
circle, man.
Vanessa (30:59):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
And honestly, allyship this,this can go for any marginalized
community. Don't just scroll onby when you see something, you
see something. It's like, if youread it, and say, hey, that's
fucked up. Well let other peopleknow that it's fucked up. And
that you will that it's fuckedup. And you know, it's a spread
that up, no thing that peoplecan help that the trans
(31:23):
community and a very simplething is if you're out hanging
out with us, to the bathroomwith us, just that makes life so
it's such a simple thing. Butwe're also let last week's
episode was about bathrooms, andwe're just terrified. The
bathrooms. Just go with us,please. That's a very powerful
way to be an ally. Honestly,it's just make sure that we can
(31:46):
pay, especially for our traininghere. So yeah, because that that
that
Erica (31:53):
That episode was so like, affirming, like, Oh, I'm not the
only one that's like nervous andthe ladies or in a changing room
or loving loving that. Where'sthe Starbucks on the road trip?
Right? You know, my someone saidto me last week, cuz I was sort
of relaying some of theexperiences I had while I was
out of town recently. And I hadto sort of be in a public
(32:14):
changing changing space, eventhough there was private
cubicles. You had to go to thatyou had to be in the ladies,
right? And she wanted to belike, Hey, by the way,
cisgendered women aren't lookingat anybody else, either.
Probably almost no one noticedyou because they were busy
dealing with their own shame ofbeing kind of naked in public.
Yeah. Right. So anyways, when wego to the bathroom, I'm
(32:37):
certainly not thinking aboutanybody else. I'm trying to, I'm
thinking about being as leastintrusive as possible, and to be
a much smaller version of my 511frame, and all of the things,
but that's what we're going toget out. Yeah. And what I look
like my wife will get with mewhen we're out together places,
which is great. It's alwayshelpful to have someone kind of
hold my hand because I getscared too, sometimes. But
(32:59):
occasionally, I'll see otherwomen in public and they're
like, let's go. If you see us,and you support us, and right
there with us in the bathroom,make sure
Vanessa (33:09):
I'll go pee with you.
Yes, exact guarantee. We need topee especially trans people,
trans transplants that are stillon Spyro guarantee you that
person has
Erica (33:24):
done mascara.
Vanessa (33:25):
Yeah, I got I hit my orchiectomy last year and it's
so nice. So but yeah, it's forthose that people listening that
don't know what it is a spiralis a testosterone aspirant
electron, it's a testosteroneblocker. And it's a horrible,
horrible, horrible drug. And oneof the many things that does
besides make your brain just notwork is it's a diuretic, and
(33:49):
you're just constantly paying,and you have to just bring in so
many pickles, you're just eatingsalt constantly. So yeah,
inspira it sucks. Yeah. So
Devin (34:01):
I do early in my journey.
And that's something I'm like, alittle bit scared about as I
start presenting them our fan isI'm only a year into my own
transition. And I mean, I'mprobably gonna go full fan,
slash like, maybe not fourth, Idon't know, like we'll see asked
me again in 12 months. Usingthat mascot privilege is
something that I'm scared about.
Vanessa (34:26):
It is scary. It's very valid to be scared. But I can
tell you that once you it'sjumping into a pool of cold
water, but once you do is it isvery liberating. So I am kind of
fast tracking my own transition.
Like I had my orky and my oneyear anniversary of starting
hormones, so but I'm also a lotolder and I just don't want to
(34:50):
wait but yeah, it's, there'sthere's no right or wrong way of
doing it. but once you finallydo, it is it's liberating. It's
also terrifying. But if someoneasked me if I would change how I
did things, no, only thing I dois do it sooner.
Erica (35:15):
It's because yes, you are. It's one of those big steps
along a lot of big steps, right?
When, you know, teaching,deciding to choose to take
hormones, whatever they mightbe, is a big scary one. Because
that's like when oh my gosh,things are really gonna happen.
And then they kind of happen anddon't happen based on your sense
of reality and expectations,right? And then the next one is
(35:37):
like, when do I go out and thelight of day like people see me,
you know, that whole thing. Andthere's more choosing to have
that first gender affirmingsurgery, you know, choosing
various paths get into legalstuff, there's all these big
steps along the way. And theyall have some fear that come
with them. Maybe they get lessover time, I don't know. But I
remember when I first likereally started not just kind of
(35:59):
being neutral, a little bit, butlike, Nope, I'm going out in
public and makeup and whatever Iwant to wear. And it was nerve
racking for like two months, butit got a little better every
day. And today. It's no big dealto me, I just like I dress
however I want wear as muchmakeup as I want or don't wear
heels because they suck for myfeet. But I wear some nice
(36:22):
chunky boots. And I don't evenhardly think about it. Unless
someone goes out of the way togive me like a really crazy look
that I can't dance. And it fromwhere you're standing. I never
thought I would feel okay withit. But I knew it was something
I had to do. Yeah, yeah, it getsbetter. It gets so much better
steps that you take,
Vanessa (36:45):
but also do it as it feels comfortable to you. So
don't ever let anyone rush yourtransition. Use. You go as you
go. Oh, that's you know? Yeah.
So and I'm proud of everyonethere under transitions be a
matter how they do it. It'sbecause it's brave. However you
(37:05):
however you do, whichever wayyou're going.
Erica (37:09):
Exactly. And speaking of ally ship, internal ally ship
with our own transit lanes, isnot putting our point of view on
what it means to transition onthem. leave people alone, they
don't need to live by yourexpectations. I did not choose
to divorce myself from manhoodto listen to what you think I
should be as a woman.
Vanessa (37:30):
I had to block someone on Instagram for that, because
she's like, Yeah, your hairlineis very masculine, you should do
this and the other to mask it.
And, you know, you shouldn't youshouldn't epilady You should
just go and get electrolysiswith everything. I'm like, Lady
egg broke, I recognize that youhave a lot of money and you can
buy whatever surgery is neverthat you want. I don't have that
luxury. So why don't you shutthe fuck up? And I haven't kind
(37:52):
of called that out on a post.
And she made a snarky post onit. So I just blocked her. So
because of that. Yeah.
Erica (38:01):
It's not stepping away from where the gender binary
says we should be to be put inanother narrow box. Yeah,
whoever you are as trans and nonbinary. And no one gets to tell
you who that is.
Vanessa (38:12):
But yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's transit
transitioning. It's anadventure. I didn't want to talk
about Zoey really quick. Devin.
You brought her up? Zoe is afucking hero. I have to say like
her in Aaron read together. Imean, they are together. They're
a couple.
Erica (38:34):
And what they are.
Devin (38:36):
Yeah, yeah. You didn't know. I didn't know that.
You can see them here. And it'samazing. You can see them in
Colorado on social media. That'sthe issue.
Vanessa (38:47):
Oh, yeah, yeah. They're so adorable. So I don't know if
either them listen to this. ButErin Zoe, YouTuber amazing. And
well, Erin probably alreadyknows I fangirl on her all the
time. She likes my post case.
But it's currently what Zoe isdoing is like she's been, as you
said, she's been censored by theby the majority in the Montana
(39:12):
house. And it means that she'snot allowed to talk to speak on
bills. And it's only because shewas trying to defend kids from
being killed. That's what theseRepublicans are doing is they're
trying to kill kids. And theyRepublicans can spin it however
they want. But that's the truthis what they're doing is
(39:36):
horrible. And they know it'shorrible. And they don't like
being shamed for it. And that'sexactly what they criticize Zoe
for doing is Zoe was talkingabout, look, you are actively
hurting these people. Whatyou're doing is horrible. It's,
I believe the word she used wasit's tantamount to torture which
is true and the If the majorityleader spoke over her saying,
(40:01):
Who are you to shame us that youcan't shame us in our in here,
so and that's what they broughtup in that letter to where they
misgendered her, you know, it'sjust just absolutely shitty. And
Zoey is still there, she's stillfighting. She had a post today
where she's like, I may not beable to speak on the floor, but
(40:22):
I'm still here for myconstituents. And it mirrors
what happened in Tennessee tothe point where the the
Republican caucus in Montana intheir letter even mentioned,
they kind of blaming somebodyfor the shit that happened in
Tennessee, which that'ssomething we talked about last
episode where one trans shooterout of 1000s of shooters have
Matala trans problem, butwhatever, whatever. But the same
(40:45):
thing happened in Tennessee withthe Tennessee three in that
power is being abused to silenceany sort of dissent that could
start pushing forward progress,which is it, this is why I am
(41:06):
hoping to find a way to get apolitical action committee
together for the transcommunity. Because this is
something that the three of ushave talked about in our
Discord. And I made a post aboutit on LinkedIn today. And other
people like Devin, it'ssomething that you've been
(41:28):
working on for a while to whatwe need is a consolidated voice.
Because we're scattered all overthe place right now we need, we
need a loud voice, we needsupport we need money is one of
the main things because like itor not, in this country, the
only thing that matters in thiscountry is money, period. That's
all that matters. Humanity does.
(41:50):
People don't care abouthumanity. The Democratic Party
is a perfect example of that. Idon't like the Democrats either.
They're fucking worthless. Ivote for them, because the
alternative is voting for my ownextinction. But every one is
bought and paid for. So the wayto get around that is to throw
(42:12):
money at the problem. And I whatI would hope to see in APAC is
to help our voices be louderthan all of this, just all these
lies that all this legislatureis coming from just these these
groups that are just helpingthese legislators write these
bills, it's all the same peopledoing it. And it's all lies.
(42:34):
It's all fake science, it'snothing's real. But they're
taking advantage of having theirtheir majorities and just
shoving it through. Likesometimes in secret meetings.
It's it's
Devin (42:46):
horrible. For me, it seems like it's just a display
of raw power to hurt people. Andas another example, is on the
18th of April, two days ago,apparently, there were people
who were protesting in theMissouri House, I believe. And
they were in the galleries andthey were kids, they're trans
kids. And so what they did isthey actually locked the kids
(43:09):
away from their parents, anddidn't let them in the gallery.
And that was that you visit themout after like an hour or two.
But that was just a display ofpower, saying, look what we can
do. Look what we can do. And forme, at least, my beliefs
personally, is generally on theright. Most things are about
(43:32):
business. There are some peoplewho are very religious and it's
zealotry. And that this is Ithink, more driven by that.
Definitely. I think thathonestly, political
contributions, especially withthe overtime Supreme Court
decision a while ago, I forgetwhat it's called. But basically
(43:53):
legalizing Super PACs and darkmoney and unlimited
contributions. It's all just areturn on investment. Honestly,
that's all it is. Because theonly real legislation that
Donald Trump got passed was theTax Reform Act, that decrease
taxes. So it's a very simple andvery logical calculation, we'll
(44:15):
spend $4 billion to buy all thepoliticians and then save $40
billion in taxes over the next10 years. It's a wonderful
return on investment. Yeah, andfor me, that's what I'm trying
to do with trans rally is tobuild an economic base, that
self sustaining is sort of aquasi union. So that will, it
(44:37):
will then be a self sustainingself funding thing. Because if
we just like ask people formoney, what's in it for them?
Yeah, you know what I mean? Andthat kid that that spigot, that
faucet of money can just stop atany time ever. Someone else
gives them more money? Yeah,because there's only like, two
or 3 million people or trendsthat are the I think that our
(45:01):
trans that, like surveys orwhatever, I mean, I think it's
probably like 30 million, but 3million people or something, say
they're trans. And like, that'sa very small interest group
versus like all the businessowners in America.
Erica (45:16):
Well, that's why I think it's important that we find ways
to contribute No, Zoey who ranand want to see, right, we need
more people to get out there anddo that we need a political
action committee, we need tocome together as a as a
coalition. There's many of usout there, but it's usually just
a few of us in places and manyof us spread out by ourselves.
We need to find ways forumsonline and things like this
(45:40):
podcast, to come together tohave a single big voice that's
so much louder. And I'd lovethat we have so many content
creators doing out there doingtheir own things driving the
methods forward. But if we canall start to bolt together,
instead of one person here, oneperson or one person here, we're
going to do better get out thereand build your communities find
(46:00):
others join places like this,where your voice adds to an
exponential effect. Yeah,
Devin (46:08):
it's like the movie enhanced life or whatever, via
Pixar answer stronger together.
You know, it's just one of thosethings where you're together
Vanessa (46:17):
for a more more current thing for people to saying the
Mandalorian they're strongertogether, too. So it's when
they're divided. It's when theyfall.
Erica (46:27):
My favorite shows?
Vanessa (46:30):
To give spoilers?
Devin (46:32):
I haven't seen it at all.
How is it? Oh, it's
Vanessa (46:35):
amazing. Oh, you have to watch it. So yeah. That's one
of the goals of the show. Onereason that I love that we're
having rotating hosts is peoplelistening to this are going to
be able to get freshperspectives. Like I don't want
to be on every single episode, Ijust have been so far. But like,
I'm hoping next week that Iwon't be on the episode, we'll
(46:56):
have other people there to talk,because next week's topic is
going to be about parents oftrans kids. But I love that we
have so many different voices,like this week, to fresh faces,
we had fresh faces last week.
And that's my goal for thisbecause people will be able to
come here to listen to us towatch us. But every week,
(47:17):
they're going to have differenthear different experiences, and
but everything's still gonna beeasy to find in this one spot.
And that's what we need, as thecommunity at large is, everyone
needs to come together. SoDevin, go ahead and plug trans
rally. However much do you wantto rally.org,
Devin (47:42):
please, what we're doing is we're going to be sending
anyone who joins, so it's $3 tojoin as an individual member, we
have 100% off coupon unity, thatmakes $0, what we do is we
provide a safe space on Discordthat people are verified to have
that a real identity. So it'stroll free. It's extremely good.
(48:03):
There's not been any trolls atall, I see the logs of people
trying to come in, and then theycan't get in, and then they get
out. And it's been amazing. Butwhat we're going to be doing is
we're going to be sending QRcode stickers. And we're going
to be, you know, basicallygiving one of these to people
who join, even if they're freemembers. And they can
(48:27):
essentially kind of have thatphysical show of force in a
physical location, you know,outside of a Starbucks in a
rural area or something likethat, to act as a counter voice
against these crazy people. Weretrying to hurt us. And it's
where we're stronger together.
That's really what it comes downto. So trans rally.org, please.
(48:47):
I said it wouldn't plug but thenVanessa Gates said,
Vanessa (48:53):
no, no, that's one thing I want people I want and I
want hosts on the show to pluganything that you're working on.
Because not only do we are welooking for allies, but we also
speak up for ourselves so and ifallies can sign up for a
membership to trans rally, justthe price of a fucking Starbucks
a month, just sign up for asubscription. I'm going to be
(49:16):
honest, I had to cancel minejust because I have absolutely
no income. But as soon as I havesome income again, I'm going to
be I want to bring on andactually have a larger portion
of money going into it so
Devin (49:25):
that we want to be fiscal sponsors of nonprofits, whenever
we're profitable. I will say toyou, like I My ass is on the
line too. I mean, like I put allof my financial life sorted into
this and I'm contributing, likeover half of the monthly income
that we have for it not as ourhousehold income but of the
(49:46):
income that we bring in as transrally. So 300 bucks a month
currently is but I guess so likeI'm putting my money where my
mouth is and not just like it'sa net loss for bees, so I'm not
making money off of it for sure.
Yeah. But it's like it's we'retrying to build a movement will
be, I think it'll be successful,just kind of whether it will
grow quick enough to meet theneed now, because a lot of shits
(50:10):
happening right now,
Vanessa (50:13):
to get us a promise, it's all happening so fast.
That's why I'm pushing for us tofind. We need allies with money
and power. So that one thinglike you'll see in our
community, there's GoFundMe isconstantly and like, I'm going
to have another one starting upnext week, for my I'm meeting
(50:35):
with my surgeon. And it's ourGoFundMe, it's, it's pretty much
just all of us in the transcommunity sending $5 to one and
then once ours comes around, allthe trans people send $5 to
ours, and it's just, we're justmoving money around in our own
community. And it's hard. But,you know, that's what, I guess
(50:59):
we have to wrap this up. Butthat's what being an ally is
about is just, if you're notsure how to help us, but and you
want to you actively want tohelp us just ask, that's all you
have to do. Just ask. And, yeah,it's as simple as that. Erica,
(51:19):
do you have any closingthoughts?
Erica (51:21):
Um, yeah, so you can find me at Oh, erica.com. So that's O
H, like, Oh, my God, Erica, er,I see a.com Oh, Erica, and you
can from there, you can read myblog, it puts out something
every two weeks or so. And thenyou can find me on LinkedIn
where I'm pretty prolific inother places, so you want to
(51:44):
check what I'm doing. Go find methere. I think it's sort of a
final plug to kind of go onhere, you know, support support
this organization, right? We'retrying to do something good.
We're trying to pull peopletogether, we have these rotating
hosts. We're building acoalition here in Germany, if
you can. And look out for usshow up for us support artists
(52:08):
who are trans as well. There's alot of great ones out there
selling stuff, support ourcommunity pump that money in, so
that we have the help to makesure our rights are brought on
par with everybody else andmaintained.
Devin (52:22):
That's all we're asking.
Vanessa (52:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's simple. You know. I had another
Oh, yeah. I will have links toboth both sites in the
description of this week'spodcast and in our in the
YouTube release, so people canfind them easily there. And
(52:43):
something that we've beentalking about the discord is
getting into some merch so Iknow Erica was talking about we
were all talking about trying tofind artwork and stuff like
that, because right now theartwork that we're using is just
some shit I threw together inCanva. And about five minutes so
but
Erica (53:01):
logo logo coming your way soon. The
Devin (53:04):
new logo was I heart New York, the new logo that they did
the redesign of it now, afterthis, it's horrible.
Vanessa (53:14):
Well, thank you, Erica.
Yeah, that were. So we want tohave merch. And we want to grow.
So the ways that if you love theshow, the way so you can help us
is Tell your friends. If you'reon if you're listening to us on
Apple podcasts or other podcaststhat you can leave reviews,
please leave us a five star.
(53:35):
Because once the farts find us,we are going to have a lot of
negative reviews and a lot oftrolling, stuff like that. So
the more reviews we get, thehigher we're going to get in the
search rankings. And our voiceswill get out there even more. So
I am so appreciative of all thekind words I've had people reach
(53:56):
out to me and say they love theshow. And it's it's been helpful
for them. And I love hearingthat. Anyone that wants to reach
out to us directly our email istranscending that humanity, that
podcast@gmail.com I know it'slong, but at least it's pretty
easy. Or you can send any of usa DM on LinkedIn. Our our
(54:21):
current just podcast site alsohas like lists of all the hosts
so you can learn about us aswell. So I want to thank you
too, for joining us. This hasbeen lovely. It's been wonderful
having some new voices here. AndI'm looking forward to seeing
both of you and for for futureepisodes. So
Erica (54:39):
yeah, it's nice to get to talk to all of you and seeing
your faces actually on cameraand hear you since I know both
of you for a little while now.
So I really enjoyed it. Thanksfor having me.
Devin (54:51):
What I'm saying like, Oh, you're a real person. Oh, yeah.
Erica (54:55):
I'm a real person this fight ya know what you think?
But it's has been really nice.
Vanessa (55:01):
It's weird to actually talk to people like in quote
unquote in person. Switch soused to just text and chat
anymore so, okay, thank you bothso much for joining. Everyone
listening. Thank you so much forlistening. Tell your friends. We
love hearing from you
Okay, now it's working.
I was trying to save it to afolder that didn't exist
anymore. So, okay, there we go.
Hello, welcome back totranscending humanity. This is
episode three. Today we arejoined by Devin and Erica, two
new hosts with us today, thetopic of conversation is very
topical, if you follow me onLinkedIn, it is how to be an
(00:32):
ally. And when I mean that, Imean an authentic ally and not a
performative ally. And we willget into the differences between
those here and our conversation.
But first, I would like to haveDevin and Erica introduce
themselves and say a little bitabout themselves and all that
wonderful stuff. So Devin, goahead. Yeah, hi, I'm Devin
pronouns, are they them? Live inChicago. Basically, I have a
(00:54):
background in got my degree insocial work, but I work in
financial services now as acompliance advisor. So I'm
basically like Toby from theoffice telling financial
advisors No. So obviously lovedby everyone. Some ways to do it.
Exactly. And hey, you know, Ican work in this field. And I
(01:14):
can actually, like, make a smalldifference by saying, Hey, you
can't promise things you can'tactually, you don't know what's
gonna happen.
Devin (01:24):
In June of last year, I started an organization called
Trans rally. It's a membershiporganization for members and
friends of the trans communitywere 170 879 strong. The idea is
to provide a safe space forpeople to network
professionally, to get internaljob posting referrals, or to
build a financial base for thecommunity.
Vanessa (01:48):
Awesome.
Erica, you're up?
Erica (01:52):
Hi, I'm Erica Vogel.
Sorry, I just got a weird alerton my computer buzzing
everything up.
No, nope. We can cut and startagain. Okay, sorry. I might
leave at the end just because Ilike stuff.
Vanessa (02:07):
At the show, you get bloopers if you cut it? Well,
there's the humanity part oftranscending.
Erica (02:14):
Yeah, hi, Erica. De, I'm still doing it. And then this
encapsulates me entirely, I getflustered and I'm you know, I
just started talking. Hi, I'mErica clearly just had a weird
issue in the intro, theirpronouns are she her queer
transgender woman. I am a seniorproduct manager in financial
technology. And before that, Iwas struck designer, illustrator
(02:39):
photographer, also with big,other big businesses. I'm
married to a wonderful queerwoman, we have a child at home.
And I have three adult kids, allof whom are part of the LGBTQ i
a rainbow. So cool. So yeah.
Well, welcome both of you. It'swonderful to have you on the
(03:02):
show. And I'd say let's go andjust dive in about being an
ally.
Vanessa (03:10):
To give a quick synopsis, a performative ally,
is essentially a corporation inJune where they're in LA, as
long as it's convenient to them.
So like, it'll be the peoplethat say, Oh, I appreciate you
that kind of stuff. But theywill talk the talk, but they're
(03:30):
not going to walk the walk. Andauthentic ally is the person
that is willing to get down inthe trenches with you. They're
the people that will losefriends and family to be an
ally. Because it be, as you bothknow, coming out all that is,
(03:52):
you're gonna lose friends andfamily. And it's terrifying. And
it's hard. And it's sad, andit's heartbreaking. And
an authentic ally is going tohave that as well. And it's hard
to find people that are willingto do that, but they're going to
(04:13):
be ostracized just fordeciding to put humanity above
whatever else soSo yeah, let's just talk about
performativeexperiences that you too have
had all that so just knock itout.
Devin (04:35):
Yeah, Erica.
Erica (04:38):
Sure.
performative ally ship isdefinitely not my favorite. I
prefer closer to the varietythat that you spoke about
already.
In my day job, I work infinancial technology, as I said,
but as part of my day job, I ampart of the national leadership
team of our LGBTQI erg.
(05:00):
ERG affinity group depending onwhat you guys call it, right,
andI've been it's coming up. Right
now we have a robust calendar,and we do a lot of things to
celebrate out actually be havingmy own event as part of it.
And that's the way I think a lotof sort of middle of the road
companies that that they're kindof good in that month. We're
(05:22):
great in that month. But we'rereally good all year long
something every single month wesend people to we're
conferences. And I think mostcompanies don't get anywhere
near that. And frankly, mostcompanies sort of rely on the
ones that decide to do itinformally, if not actually
squashing the idea, right? Sooh, that's performative. If, if
(05:42):
you only care about pride inJune, where you make money off
of pride as a big part of yourrevenue, and you don't care
about others, the rest of theyear, you're really a
performative ally, in my book,that way I kind of differentiate
really good allies is, it's notthe person that says they're an
ally, just online, or maybe toyou in person, but you never see
them show up. That's really morelike, finding a good way to
(06:06):
voice tolerance. In my mind, I'mtolerant of you, like, you don't
mess with me, I don't mess withyou. That's tolerance. And Ally,
to me, is the person that speakswhen I'm not in the room, and
the subject comes up. Right? IfI'm in the room, you guys
believe I'm gonna be talkingabout it. And they'll be
supporting me. But they have thecourage, the the strength, the
(06:30):
fortitude, and the humanity tostand up when I'm not in the
room.
And that's not an easy thing todo. And I think, yeah, and I
think a lot of people sort offeel like, was it worth it? I
have a lot of people in my lifewho are allies in a lot of
places in their life. So yeah,as you caught up and as some
people do lose friends, and theylose contact with family, but I
(06:52):
would say don't let thatdiscourage you. Because it's
probably not just this onething. Right? Yeah. If you lose
your dad over supporting peoplewith trans rights, there's
probably some other stuff goingon, too. So I don't want people
to feel like this is just sortof adds and maybe expedites
those situations. But yeah,anybody who chooses to give
(07:14):
their fellow person space to bethemselves, the benefit of the
doubt, does decides not to putthem in a box. There's someone
that's an ally. Yeah, everybodywho needs to put something in a
box has some work to do. Yeah,and it's unfortunate, I think
that we're gonna have to, like,distinguish people who are
allies, because we live in sucha hostile world. You know, like,
(07:36):
it should be that you're just aperson, I'm a person, we have
differences, cool, we bringsomething different to the
table. Cool. But like there arepeople who want to hurt other
people, and to basically useanything that they can as a
weapon, either for their ownself interest, or because I
guess they're sadists orsomething. But just it's
Vanessa (08:01):
it's not, it's not.
Coming up, hopefully, it doesn'tcome up as I'm trying to talk
here.
So my I have a friend that worksfor a large software company
that I'm not going to name it,but it's a large cost software
company that suddenly becameless large, because they did
some really shitty things totheir employees. But
(08:25):
so my friend was telling meabout the diversity groups at
that company. And it's all 100%.
Like that, in order foremployees to get involved, they
have to sign up through HR, butit's completely unpaid has to be
completely outside of businesshours is be completely outside
of all of your duties. Andeverything is completely outside
(08:48):
and it doesn't factor intoperformance reviews, nothing.
But the company can then use thefact that those programs exist,
that they're not paying for,they're not supporting in any
way. But they can use those asbragging rights. So that's just
dangerous, and it's not allyship at all. So if like, if
(09:09):
you're at a company that it doesstuff like that, it's it doesn't
benefit anybody, companies. If acompany wants to be an ally,
they, it's, they might lose somecustomers over initially. Yes.
But in the long run fromeverything I've seen, it kind of
works out for them in in thefuture. So I have I guess two
(09:32):
examples top of mind for myself,at least one is recently Dylan
Mulvaney with Bud Light.
Devin (09:42):
The fact that, you know, as every beer drinker, a lot of
beer drinkers are likesomeone who's trans,
you know, having any sort ofrelationship with Bud Light.
Okay, cool. Now let's justbasically
You know, a lot of board ofpeople in the board of directors
(10:02):
were like, Hey, this is we don'twant this, it's hurting us now.
So let's bring out commercialsthat are all about patriotic
flags and stuff. And illicitlystepping away from it. But I
think that there's also positivepositive examples to one, it's
like not very known, which isactually like, it's not great
(10:24):
that it's not known, but it's,in some ways, a little bit more
substantive. But T Mobile,actually, they have a bank
account for T Mobile customers,where people can actually change
their name to their preferredname.
MasterCard has a program calledthe true name, program, and you
can change your name without itbeing legally different. But for
(10:46):
example, T Mobile just decidedto just do that, which is
amazing. And they're like,they're not like, waving it
around and being like, hey,here's what we need people who
are queer, look at this. No,it's just like, hey, well, let's
just do it. That's, you know, inan act of being an ally, even if
it's something small that
Vanessa (11:06):
Makes me wanna switch to T-Mobile
Erica (11:10):
I work in FinTech, financial technology. And what
you're talking about Devon is atrend that's growing fast. I
think. There are other banks,other financial institutions
that have also rolled outsomething similar with a credit
card or whatever. But just aboutevery single bank is working to
bring that about, and we'llprobably see it widely
distributed everywhere, at leastin the US within the next year.
(11:32):
Which is a great thing for for avariety of reasons, but
particularly for trans and nonbinary.
Devin (11:39):
Yeah, to touch on that, too. And I'm just sorry for just
talking so much. But I just alot of stuff is happening with
this, because I'm in finance andeverything, too. I spoke to
someone who I'm not going toname their name, but they worked
at daylight bank. And that's oneof the FinTech companies that is
marketed towards queer at queercommunity. And there was an
(12:04):
insane expos. They I think itwas in New York Mac, and you
should all read it, like thereis. So there's someone suing
daylight bank, because it'sbasically like venture capitals,
trying to like wrap itself in aveneer of the peer community.
(12:25):
But actually, it's like, techbro. 1,000%. And like, they have
this crazy party in Mexico. Andnow they're trying to like,
basically do something withlike, making people surrogate
parents against their will orsomething. If something weird
like just it's it's a crazystory, but that's that happens.
(12:46):
And it's daylight Bank, which islike the queer bank, at least
that's what they were trying tomarket themselves as
Vanessa (12:57):
just makes it makes my brain hurt. Like, here in a T
Mobile makes things easy isrefreshing. Because I have 18 T.
And it is not easy at all, I didmy entire legal name change
right down to my birthcertificate. And right down to
the gender marker, I'm overcertificate, which is a pain in
(13:17):
the sto in Ohio. In some states,you can't do it at all but and I
updated I tried updating my namewith AT and T you can't do it
online. And I was able to quoteunquote, update my caller name
on my caller ID. But anytime Icalled someone it was coming up
with my dead name. So I calledcustomer support. They're like,
(13:41):
you can only do that at a store.
And so I went to the store nearme but it's an affiliate store.
And just the look I got walkingin from the person working there
kind of told me how that entirething was gonna go. But I live
in a very red area and I'mpretty visibly trans specially
in person. And you know, howdoes, but so they supposedly
(14:04):
changed it and updated it. Butit still hasn't changed. So it
shouldn't be that hard to changeyour names for sign up and phone
bill, but it is. Yeah. So waysthat companies, companies can be
(14:26):
authentic. That's the moreinteresting part because we can
we can rag on people for beingperformative all we want but in
the end, we're here to educateand to just bring knowledge to
people and ways that people cando that is as Devin said, don't
make a big deal out of it. Butyou can put it into your
(14:53):
company's mission statement.
There's little things likediscord perfectly Example. And
on my massive job, I applied todiscord occasionally. And they
put rate on their applicationthat part of what they do is
they give $25,000 towards genderaffirming surgeries. And that is
(15:17):
right there in the open on theirjob descriptions when you apply.
And it's just little things likethat, knowing that a company has
your back is extremelyimportant. And because
especially those of us in thejob hunt, we're looking around
for things that it's hard tofind a company, you don't know,
(15:39):
if you're going to be signing upfor a place that's just going to
be completely toxic. So seeingthings like that, where they put
it right there in writing, soyou can see it, but they're also
not bragging about it. Andthat's the important thing is to
be subtle, but be strong. And Ivery appreciative of this court
(16:02):
for doing that. There's a lot ofother companies that do that
name and things like that aswell. But
Devin (16:09):
what if you do something crazy? I mean, I would be like,
if someone's like, yeah, we'regiving $10 million to trans
lifeline. I'd be like, Greatthat all you want. That's
substantive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But don't be like, Oh, we boughtsomeone something for $400 and
then spend $10,000 on marketing,saying that you spent $400.
Yeah, like, why?
Erica (16:32):
Yeah, sorry. I think if we want to, sort of point to
people at smaller companies, ormedium companies, or even if
you're in a large company,towards improving your ally
representation of LGBTQ people,and by the way,
intersectionality allmarginalized give me a nice,
right. But what you should belooking for is your company has
(16:55):
a calendar of holidays, right?
I'm sure Christmas is on there.
And New Year's Memorial Day and,and Fourth of July, and Labor
Day and Thanksgiving in thiscountry, it's really easy to
find very published calendarsthat have days that covered
diversity, inclusive, transTrans Day of visibility, for
example, not just pride. So askyour company why they haven't
(17:18):
built out occur a calendar ofall diverse events, right?
Because they probably don't justhave, you know, Joe, this hat
white guy is the only employeeif they're even considering
this. Right. So that's, that'snumber one. Find those days,
your company doesn't have totake those days off. To do is
let people know, hey, it'sintersexuality day, it's lesbian
(17:39):
awareness a day, it's whateverday and write a little something
about it, and to start to bringthis to your attention. And like
I said, while you're at it,don't just stop with our
community if you're gonna gothat route. Yeah. I think
pulling together, you know,creating affinity groups,
whether they are usually thingsand in some way or casual ones
and getting people just talkingand visiting and building
(17:59):
community. And I think whathappens when you put some focus
on that as your company helpsnew people a find a group of
people to talk to, but it alsohelps maybe people newly to
their weirdness start to find aplace to go, many people feel
isolated. And so work on yourcompany, getting people together
to talk and plan and listen. Andthen of course, obviously, you
(18:22):
shouldn't celebrate all of thehigh queer holidays, right. But
there are plenty of conferences,there are plenty of courses
they're consumed. There's somuch out there to educate your
people on how to care for makespace for advocate and elevate
your career employees. It's nothard to find, it's not hard to
consume. If your company is notdoing these things, just pick
(18:43):
one and start and then pick thenext thing. Do you want your
company to improve? And they doall these things? Do they send
people to conferences? Do youhave internal content to
consume, right? There's alwayssomething to add.
Vanessa (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It sounds simple. And really, itdoesn't it's not even that
expensive to do it. Nope. Butthen people will start people
will be drawn to your company,especially employees. I mean,
because they're like, Okay, asafe place for us. You know?
Yeah, Starbucks, but then theStarbucks NASA has the whole
(19:24):
union thing going on. So youhave the two Yes, it's very
queer friendly. But they're alsotrying to get in bus so but I
see what you mean like because Iknow they have amazing
insurance. And but just beingwhen people find out that that
(19:46):
accompany is going to actuallyvalue them as a human, be it any
sort of minority, especiallyrace because in the end EIA
starts and ends with racism. Andeverything has to be
acknowledged, like you see, justlet it like little things like
(20:09):
why is Easter a holiday wherecompanies are closed, but not
Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Youknow, it's kind of food for
thought kind of things likethat. And it wouldn't be a big
deal to, to have holidays andnon traditional holidays, non
Judeo Christian holidays reallyis what it boils down to be. So
(20:33):
it, it doesn't take much. Butjust to kind of step back and
look at your employees, talk toyour employees. As a leader,
I've always valued. I don't liketo be a boss. As a leader, I've
always been in managementpositions in one way or another
and ran a business for 13 years.
(20:56):
And my leadership style was tolisten to the people, because
they're the ones actually doingthe work. They're the ones that
are doing the job day by day,seeing everything I full on
realize, I don't know, I knowthe gist of what they do. But I
don't know all that nittygritties. So when people are
(21:16):
listening to be it, workperformance, or b and d are just
knowing that they can go someonethat will just hear them, if
they're having a shitty day, youknow, you shouldn't be afraid to
go to your supervisor. I don'teven know what's going on with
all this. But it's just it'simportant to make sure that your
(21:38):
staff feels heard, especiallysince Gen Z, and soon Gen alpha
are joining the workforce. Andthose generations. Don't take
shit, it's there. I have so muchrespect for them. Because if
they don't like something,they're just gonna leave,
(21:58):
they'll find something else. Andso my dad go hurtling down the
stairs. So it's a couple ofthese needs to get with the
program here or else they'regoing to be left behind. And
yeah, there's my point rightthere.
Erica (22:14):
So I have a question for both of you. One of the ways I
like to talk about ally ship isto talk about the differences
between what it means to be myally, versus an ally to the
trans community versus Devon'sally. I think it it helps opens
up conversations that helppeople to know their role as an
ally, that I think we call thisout at the top allies act. Is it
(22:36):
as an action word, it meansaction. So what would it mean to
you Vanessa, for for me to bethe kind of ally that I would
need to be for you. And is thatany different than the rest of
the trans community?
Vanessa (22:49):
Personally, it's what I asked people I've made posts on
it, but usually it's onFacebook, and the algorithm just
makes it fall flat. But if yousee my content, and it resonates
with you, hit that fucking sharebutton, and comment on it, when
you share it set the privacy topublic, not just the friends
(23:13):
show support, that also helpsget our, our words out there. So
for me, most of my activism ison social media because I'm a
parent, I'm, if I'm notparenting, I'm job planning, so
I don't have time to go out andlike do things. So I do my
activism online. And the bestthing that people can do is help
(23:34):
me get my voice heard. And Ithink that goes for the entire
trans community because a lot ofus all of us online we're just
sitting there just screaming outto the void and it's some of us
our voices are heard more thanothers. And luckily we happen to
have some of those people onstaff at this podcast but others
(23:56):
you know, we're pushing we'restruggling and we just need to
be able to be heard and ifpeople really want to support us
it's as easy as clicking thatshare button or in my case I
have some family members that Ican't get the step going to
fucking Chick fil A and nomatter how much I say they're
(24:16):
like well you know othercompanies are bad too it's just
just like all they want you todo is just not go to chicken
Chick fil A that's all Iespecially don't take my kid
there and but I'll come downI'll come downstairs and throw
something away and I'll seetypically things in the garbage
I'm like sake it's cluck sick.
Yeah. I have the explicit Markchecked on this podcast so you
(24:40):
guys you too can just unload.
But no, I get up Chick fil A iYeah. The other day. The power
went out here for like a longtime and like it knocked out
everywhere. And Chick fil A wasincluded. I'm like, Yeah, fuck
you. So But anyways, yeah, forme, that is my main thing is to
(25:05):
be an ally to me, help me helpmy voice get out. So awesome.
What about you done?
Devin (25:11):
Yeah. So on a day to day at least, you know, I kind of
have a strong personalitiesslash on a stubborn son of a
bitch. So I honestly, for mepersonally, I don't have an
extreme attraction, I guess toany any, like a gender binary
necessarily. So non binary. So Ihonestly don't really care what
(25:34):
pronouns people use, I used toplay them. But if it's socially
fluid, and I feel like I looklike a dude, that day or
something, I'm okay. He has,that's fine. It's not a huge
deal. But for me, the thing Ithink, that I want people to do
on a day to day basis is dosomething difficult. Because
(25:56):
being a real ally is not easy.
And you know, there's that oneepisode or that one show?
Because like Dateline NBC orwhatever it is, like, what would
you do? And it was, you know,they were staging fake, like
arguments like abusive argumentsand that kind of thing. And
people would just walk by, andnot do anything. And that was
(26:17):
the whole premise of the show.
And I would say, just, if yousee something, say something,
and just speak up, I would sayto for myself, at least, you
know, I run trans rally, be amember, become a member, get
people jobs, because our goal isto like network, and to build an
(26:40):
economic base for people.
Because I think it's somethinglike 80% of people with autism
are unemployed, orunderemployed, and autism, and
the trans communities have apretty large overlap. And also
like our appearances, especiallyif you live in an unsafe area,
aka anywhere, not in the city,pretty much in the United
States, even in blue states. Ifyou live outside the city, it's
(27:04):
not safe, usually. And there'sjust so much that goes wrong.
Like there was a politicianrecently that I think it was in
like Montana that was censuredfor speaking out
Vanessa (27:20):
Zooey Zephyr; that's actually something I wanted to
talk about today.
Devin (27:25):
And, like, in the century letter, you know, they
misgendered her multiple times,so that it's a hard world out
there. And Ally ship that reallymatters is not easy. And it
might put you at risk, and itwill cost something either
monetarily or social. If it'strue ally ship, I will say.
Vanessa (27:50):
But it's also extremely rewarding.
Devin (27:53):
It's so rewarding. Yeah.
Because it makes you live anauthentic and genuine life. And
it actually does something forthe world. Instead of like, you
know, we're in this podcast, andeveryone competes with all those
stupid ads that just flood oureyeballs every day. Like I hate
personally Liberty Mutual ads asan example. Not a huge fan. No,
(28:16):
horrible. But we're competingagainst that for our humanity.
And so it's hard it just if youdo something genuine and
authentic, just be yourself.
Because that's what I would sayto anyone who's listening
Vanessa (28:39):
that the line if you hear something, say something
that sums up ally ship, really.
So another line I saw is realallies show up? Yep, it's that
simple. So
Erica (28:56):
yeah, I have some similarities to both you in
terms of what it means to be myally. I think number one is that
you identify yourself to be Iwant to know, right? And you ask
what I need. Right? And so if wewalk into the room and someone
says something that I don't needyou to get in front of me, I
need you to stand behind mewhile I handled the situation.
(29:19):
But there might be some whereyou're gonna get a cue from me
and it's okay for you to stepforward. So I think when we're
talking about ally ship, we canalways have to remember that
there's what the community needsbut you might not if you have
someone you know these trendsask they would like you to show
up so it's kind of goes back towhat you said show up take
(29:40):
action. Stand by behind me standwith me when I can't speak use
your words lend your privilegeto me. Yeah, right. That's
that's to me is what it means tobe my personal ally but it also
means like, be there with justbe in the moment with be because
I'm gonna like be loud about mytrans Joe weigh in, I want you
(30:00):
to share that and feel proudthat we get to stand together on
something that's about basichumanity. Obviously, when it
comes to the community, likehelp use your voice, but don't
talk over ours elevatemarginalized voices, right?
Devin (30:16):
Advocate for the bull to like, let me know in private,
please. It's like if you have apiece of paper on your foot or
something. Yeah, no.
Erica (30:25):
But when you see us post, something you've I think you
both have talked about earlier.
Share that, add a comment, like,but pass it on, elevate our
voices, don't speak over ours.
When you can't use your voice,use it. Right. And lend your
time. Like I said earlier, lendyour privilege show up with us.
If we're going to a rally showup. If you want to go to the
(30:47):
rally, and we don't know aboutit, let us know and show up.
Right. Speak up when we're notthere. That's my ally, the
people that I find out, didn'tspeak up for me when something
went down in the room that Iwasn't in there out of the
circle, man.
Vanessa (30:59):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
And honestly, allyship this,this can go for any marginalized
community. Don't just scroll onby when you see something, you
see something. It's like, if youread it, and say, hey, that's
fucked up. Well let other peopleknow that it's fucked up. And
that you will that it's fuckedup. And you know, it's a spread
that up, no thing that peoplecan help that the trans
(31:23):
community and a very simplething is if you're out hanging
out with us, to the bathroomwith us, just that makes life so
it's such a simple thing. Butwe're also let last week's
episode was about bathrooms, andwe're just terrified. The
bathrooms. Just go with us,please. That's a very powerful
way to be an ally. Honestly,it's just make sure that we can
(31:46):
pay, especially for our traininghere. So yeah, because that that
that
Erica (31:53):
That episode was so like, affirming, like, Oh, I'm not the
only one that's like nervous andthe ladies or in a changing room
or loving loving that. Where'sthe Starbucks on the road trip?
Right? You know, my someone saidto me last week, cuz I was sort
of relaying some of theexperiences I had while I was
out of town recently. And I hadto sort of be in a public
(32:14):
changing changing space, eventhough there was private
cubicles. You had to go to thatyou had to be in the ladies,
right? And she wanted to belike, Hey, by the way,
cisgendered women aren't lookingat anybody else, either.
Probably almost no one noticedyou because they were busy
dealing with their own shame ofbeing kind of naked in public.
Yeah. Right. So anyways, when wego to the bathroom, I'm
(32:37):
certainly not thinking aboutanybody else. I'm trying to, I'm
thinking about being as leastintrusive as possible, and to be
a much smaller version of my 511frame, and all of the things,
but that's what we're going toget out. Yeah. And what I look
like my wife will get with mewhen we're out together places,
which is great. It's alwayshelpful to have someone kind of
hold my hand because I getscared too, sometimes. But
(32:59):
occasionally, I'll see otherwomen in public and they're
like, let's go. If you see us,and you support us, and right
there with us in the bathroom,make sure
Vanessa (33:09):
I'll go pee with you.
Yes, exact guarantee. We need topee especially trans people,
trans transplants that are stillon Spyro guarantee you that
person has
Erica (33:24):
done mascara.
Vanessa (33:25):
Yeah, I got I hit my orchiectomy last year and it's
so nice. So but yeah, it's forthose that people listening that
don't know what it is a spiralis a testosterone aspirant
electron, it's a testosteroneblocker. And it's a horrible,
horrible, horrible drug. And oneof the many things that does
besides make your brain just notwork is it's a diuretic, and
(33:49):
you're just constantly paying,and you have to just bring in so
many pickles, you're just eatingsalt constantly. So yeah,
inspira it sucks. Yeah. So
Devin (34:01):
I do early in my journey.
And that's something I'm like, alittle bit scared about as I
start presenting them our fan isI'm only a year into my own
transition. And I mean, I'mprobably gonna go full fan,
slash like, maybe not fourth, Idon't know, like we'll see asked
me again in 12 months. Usingthat mascot privilege is
something that I'm scared about.
Vanessa (34:26):
It is scary. It's very valid to be scared. But I can
tell you that once you it'sjumping into a pool of cold
water, but once you do is it isvery liberating. So I am kind of
fast tracking my own transition.
Like I had my orky and my oneyear anniversary of starting
hormones, so but I'm also a lotolder and I just don't want to
(34:50):
wait but yeah, it's, there'sthere's no right or wrong way of
doing it. but once you finallydo, it is it's liberating. It's
also terrifying. But if someoneasked me if I would change how I
did things, no, only thing I dois do it sooner.
Erica (35:15):
It's because yes, you are. It's one of those big steps
along a lot of big steps, right?
When, you know, teaching,deciding to choose to take
hormones, whatever they mightbe, is a big scary one. Because
that's like when oh my gosh,things are really gonna happen.
And then they kind of happen anddon't happen based on your sense
of reality and expectations,right? And then the next one is
(35:37):
like, when do I go out and thelight of day like people see me,
you know, that whole thing. Andthere's more choosing to have
that first gender affirmingsurgery, you know, choosing
various paths get into legalstuff, there's all these big
steps along the way. And theyall have some fear that come
with them. Maybe they get lessover time, I don't know. But I
remember when I first likereally started not just kind of
(35:59):
being neutral, a little bit, butlike, Nope, I'm going out in
public and makeup and whatever Iwant to wear. And it was nerve
racking for like two months, butit got a little better every
day. And today. It's no big dealto me, I just like I dress
however I want wear as muchmakeup as I want or don't wear
heels because they suck for myfeet. But I wear some nice
(36:22):
chunky boots. And I don't evenhardly think about it. Unless
someone goes out of the way togive me like a really crazy look
that I can't dance. And it fromwhere you're standing. I never
thought I would feel okay withit. But I knew it was something
I had to do. Yeah, yeah, it getsbetter. It gets so much better
steps that you take,
Vanessa (36:45):
but also do it as it feels comfortable to you. So
don't ever let anyone rush yourtransition. Use. You go as you
go. Oh, that's you know? Yeah.
So and I'm proud of everyonethere under transitions be a
matter how they do it. It'sbecause it's brave. However you
(37:05):
however you do, whichever wayyou're going.
Erica (37:09):
Exactly. And speaking of ally ship, internal ally ship
with our own transit lanes, isnot putting our point of view on
what it means to transition onthem. leave people alone, they
don't need to live by yourexpectations. I did not choose
to divorce myself from manhoodto listen to what you think I
should be as a woman.
Vanessa (37:30):
I had to block someone on Instagram for that, because
she's like, Yeah, your hairlineis very masculine, you should do
this and the other to mask it.
And, you know, you shouldn't youshouldn't epilady You should
just go and get electrolysiswith everything. I'm like, Lady
egg broke, I recognize that youhave a lot of money and you can
buy whatever surgery is neverthat you want. I don't have that
luxury. So why don't you shutthe fuck up? And I haven't kind
(37:52):
of called that out on a post.
And she made a snarky post onit. So I just blocked her. So
because of that. Yeah.
Erica (38:01):
It's not stepping away from where the gender binary
says we should be to be put inanother narrow box. Yeah,
whoever you are as trans and nonbinary. And no one gets to tell
you who that is.
Vanessa (38:12):
But yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's transit
transitioning. It's anadventure. I didn't want to talk
about Zoey really quick. Devin.
You brought her up? Zoe is afucking hero. I have to say like
her in Aaron read together. Imean, they are together. They're
a couple.
Erica (38:34):
And what they are.
Devin (38:36):
Yeah, yeah. You didn't know. I didn't know that.
You can see them here. And it'samazing. You can see them in
Colorado on social media. That'sthe issue.
Vanessa (38:47):
Oh, yeah, yeah. They're so adorable. So I don't know if
either them listen to this. ButErin Zoe, YouTuber amazing. And
well, Erin probably alreadyknows I fangirl on her all the
time. She likes my post case.
But it's currently what Zoe isdoing is like she's been, as you
said, she's been censored by theby the majority in the Montana
(39:12):
house. And it means that she'snot allowed to talk to speak on
bills. And it's only because shewas trying to defend kids from
being killed. That's what theseRepublicans are doing is they're
trying to kill kids. And theyRepublicans can spin it however
they want. But that's the truthis what they're doing is
(39:36):
horrible. And they know it'shorrible. And they don't like
being shamed for it. And that'sexactly what they criticize Zoe
for doing is Zoe was talkingabout, look, you are actively
hurting these people. Whatyou're doing is horrible. It's,
I believe the word she used wasit's tantamount to torture which
is true and the If the majorityleader spoke over her saying,
(40:01):
Who are you to shame us that youcan't shame us in our in here,
so and that's what they broughtup in that letter to where they
misgendered her, you know, it'sjust just absolutely shitty. And
Zoey is still there, she's stillfighting. She had a post today
where she's like, I may not beable to speak on the floor, but
(40:22):
I'm still here for myconstituents. And it mirrors
what happened in Tennessee tothe point where the the
Republican caucus in Montana intheir letter even mentioned,
they kind of blaming somebodyfor the shit that happened in
Tennessee, which that'ssomething we talked about last
episode where one trans shooterout of 1000s of shooters have
Matala trans problem, butwhatever, whatever. But the same
(40:45):
thing happened in Tennessee withthe Tennessee three in that
power is being abused to silenceany sort of dissent that could
start pushing forward progress,which is it, this is why I am
(41:06):
hoping to find a way to get apolitical action committee
together for the transcommunity. Because this is
something that the three of ushave talked about in our
Discord. And I made a post aboutit on LinkedIn today. And other
people like Devin, it'ssomething that you've been
(41:28):
working on for a while to whatwe need is a consolidated voice.
Because we're scattered all overthe place right now we need, we
need a loud voice, we needsupport we need money is one of
the main things because like itor not, in this country, the
only thing that matters in thiscountry is money, period. That's
all that matters. Humanity does.
(41:50):
People don't care abouthumanity. The Democratic Party
is a perfect example of that. Idon't like the Democrats either.
They're fucking worthless. Ivote for them, because the
alternative is voting for my ownextinction. But every one is
bought and paid for. So the wayto get around that is to throw
(42:12):
money at the problem. And I whatI would hope to see in APAC is
to help our voices be louderthan all of this, just all these
lies that all this legislatureis coming from just these these
groups that are just helpingthese legislators write these
bills, it's all the same peopledoing it. And it's all lies.
(42:34):
It's all fake science, it'snothing's real. But they're
taking advantage of having theirtheir majorities and just
shoving it through. Likesometimes in secret meetings.
It's it's
Devin (42:46):
horrible. For me, it seems like it's just a display
of raw power to hurt people. Andas another example, is on the
18th of April, two days ago,apparently, there were people
who were protesting in theMissouri House, I believe. And
they were in the galleries andthey were kids, they're trans
kids. And so what they did isthey actually locked the kids
(43:09):
away from their parents, anddidn't let them in the gallery.
And that was that you visit themout after like an hour or two.
But that was just a display ofpower, saying, look what we can
do. Look what we can do. And forme, at least, my beliefs
personally, is generally on theright. Most things are about
(43:32):
business. There are some peoplewho are very religious and it's
zealotry. And that this is Ithink, more driven by that.
Definitely. I think thathonestly, political
contributions, especially withthe overtime Supreme Court
decision a while ago, I forgetwhat it's called. But basically
(43:53):
legalizing Super PACs and darkmoney and unlimited
contributions. It's all just areturn on investment. Honestly,
that's all it is. Because theonly real legislation that
Donald Trump got passed was theTax Reform Act, that decrease
taxes. So it's a very simple andvery logical calculation, we'll
(44:15):
spend $4 billion to buy all thepoliticians and then save $40
billion in taxes over the next10 years. It's a wonderful
return on investment. Yeah, andfor me, that's what I'm trying
to do with trans rally is tobuild an economic base, that
self sustaining is sort of aquasi union. So that will, it
(44:37):
will then be a self sustainingself funding thing. Because if
we just like ask people formoney, what's in it for them?
Yeah, you know what I mean? Andthat kid that that spigot, that
faucet of money can just stop atany time ever. Someone else
gives them more money? Yeah,because there's only like, two
or 3 million people or trendsthat are the I think that our
(45:01):
trans that, like surveys orwhatever, I mean, I think it's
probably like 30 million, but 3million people or something, say
they're trans. And like, that'sa very small interest group
versus like all the businessowners in America.
Erica (45:16):
Well, that's why I think it's important that we find ways
to contribute No, Zoey who ranand want to see, right, we need
more people to get out there anddo that we need a political
action committee, we need tocome together as a as a
coalition. There's many of usout there, but it's usually just
a few of us in places and manyof us spread out by ourselves.
We need to find ways forumsonline and things like this
(45:40):
podcast, to come together tohave a single big voice that's
so much louder. And I'd lovethat we have so many content
creators doing out there doingtheir own things driving the
methods forward. But if we canall start to bolt together,
instead of one person here, oneperson or one person here, we're
going to do better get out thereand build your communities find
(46:00):
others join places like this,where your voice adds to an
exponential effect. Yeah,
Devin (46:08):
it's like the movie enhanced life or whatever, via
Pixar answer stronger together.
You know, it's just one of thosethings where you're together
Vanessa (46:17):
for a more more current thing for people to saying the
Mandalorian they're strongertogether, too. So it's when
they're divided. It's when theyfall.
Erica (46:27):
My favorite shows?
Vanessa (46:30):
To give spoilers?
Devin (46:32):
I haven't seen it at all.
How is it? Oh, it's
Vanessa (46:35):
amazing. Oh, you have to watch it. So yeah. That's one
of the goals of the show. Onereason that I love that we're
having rotating hosts is peoplelistening to this are going to
be able to get freshperspectives. Like I don't want
to be on every single episode, Ijust have been so far. But like,
I'm hoping next week that Iwon't be on the episode, we'll
(46:56):
have other people there to talk,because next week's topic is
going to be about parents oftrans kids. But I love that we
have so many different voices,like this week, to fresh faces,
we had fresh faces last week.
And that's my goal for thisbecause people will be able to
come here to listen to us towatch us. But every week,
(47:17):
they're going to have differenthear different experiences, and
but everything's still gonna beeasy to find in this one spot.
And that's what we need, as thecommunity at large is, everyone
needs to come together. SoDevin, go ahead and plug trans
rally. However much do you wantto rally.org,
Devin (47:42):
please, what we're doing is we're going to be sending
anyone who joins, so it's $3 tojoin as an individual member, we
have 100% off coupon unity, thatmakes $0, what we do is we
provide a safe space on Discordthat people are verified to have
that a real identity. So it'stroll free. It's extremely good.
(48:03):
There's not been any trolls atall, I see the logs of people
trying to come in, and then theycan't get in, and then they get
out. And it's been amazing. Butwhat we're going to be doing is
we're going to be sending QRcode stickers. And we're going
to be, you know, basicallygiving one of these to people
who join, even if they're freemembers. And they can
(48:27):
essentially kind of have thatphysical show of force in a
physical location, you know,outside of a Starbucks in a
rural area or something likethat, to act as a counter voice
against these crazy people. Weretrying to hurt us. And it's
where we're stronger together.
That's really what it comes downto. So trans rally.org, please.
(48:47):
I said it wouldn't plug but thenVanessa Gates said,
Vanessa (48:53):
no, no, that's one thing I want people I want and I
want hosts on the show to pluganything that you're working on.
Because not only do we are welooking for allies, but we also
speak up for ourselves so and ifallies can sign up for a
membership to trans rally, justthe price of a fucking Starbucks
a month, just sign up for asubscription. I'm going to be
(49:16):
honest, I had to cancel minejust because I have absolutely
no income. But as soon as I havesome income again, I'm going to
be I want to bring on andactually have a larger portion
of money going into it so
Devin (49:25):
that we want to be fiscal sponsors of nonprofits, whenever
we're profitable. I will say toyou, like I My ass is on the
line too. I mean, like I put allof my financial life sorted into
this and I'm contributing, likeover half of the monthly income
that we have for it not as ourhousehold income but of the
(49:46):
income that we bring in as transrally. So 300 bucks a month
currently is but I guess so likeI'm putting my money where my
mouth is and not just like it'sa net loss for bees, so I'm not
making money off of it for sure.
Yeah. But it's like it's we'retrying to build a movement will
be, I think it'll be successful,just kind of whether it will
grow quick enough to meet theneed now, because a lot of shits
(50:10):
happening right now,
Vanessa (50:13):
to get us a promise, it's all happening so fast.
That's why I'm pushing for us tofind. We need allies with money
and power. So that one thinglike you'll see in our
community, there's GoFundMe isconstantly and like, I'm going
to have another one starting upnext week, for my I'm meeting
(50:35):
with my surgeon. And it's ourGoFundMe, it's, it's pretty much
just all of us in the transcommunity sending $5 to one and
then once ours comes around, allthe trans people send $5 to
ours, and it's just, we're justmoving money around in our own
community. And it's hard. But,you know, that's what, I guess
(50:59):
we have to wrap this up. Butthat's what being an ally is
about is just, if you're notsure how to help us, but and you
want to you actively want tohelp us just ask, that's all you
have to do. Just ask. And, yeah,it's as simple as that. Erica,
(51:19):
do you have any closingthoughts?
Erica (51:21):
Um, yeah, so you can find me at Oh, erica.com. So that's O
H, like, Oh, my God, Erica, er,I see a.com Oh, Erica, and you
can from there, you can read myblog, it puts out something
every two weeks or so. And thenyou can find me on LinkedIn
where I'm pretty prolific inother places, so you want to
(51:44):
check what I'm doing. Go find methere. I think it's sort of a
final plug to kind of go onhere, you know, support support
this organization, right? We'retrying to do something good.
We're trying to pull peopletogether, we have these rotating
hosts. We're building acoalition here in Germany, if
you can. And look out for usshow up for us support artists
(52:08):
who are trans as well. There's alot of great ones out there
selling stuff, support ourcommunity pump that money in, so
that we have the help to makesure our rights are brought on
par with everybody else andmaintained.
Devin (52:22):
That's all we're asking.
Vanessa (52:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's simple. You know. I had another
Oh, yeah. I will have links toboth both sites in the
description of this week'spodcast and in our in the
YouTube release, so people canfind them easily there. And
(52:43):
something that we've beentalking about the discord is
getting into some merch so Iknow Erica was talking about we
were all talking about trying tofind artwork and stuff like
that, because right now theartwork that we're using is just
some shit I threw together inCanva. And about five minutes so
but
Erica (53:01):
logo logo coming your way soon. The
Devin (53:04):
new logo was I heart New York, the new logo that they did
the redesign of it now, afterthis, it's horrible.
Vanessa (53:14):
Well, thank you, Erica.
Yeah, that were. So we want tohave merch. And we want to grow.
So the ways that if you love theshow, the way so you can help us
is Tell your friends. If you'reon if you're listening to us on
Apple podcasts or other podcaststhat you can leave reviews,
please leave us a five star.
(53:35):
Because once the farts find us,we are going to have a lot of
negative reviews and a lot oftrolling, stuff like that. So
the more reviews we get, thehigher we're going to get in the
search rankings. And our voiceswill get out there even more. So
I am so appreciative of all thekind words I've had people reach
(53:56):
out to me and say they love theshow. And it's it's been helpful
for them. And I love hearingthat. Anyone that wants to reach
out to us directly our email istranscending that humanity, that
podcast@gmail.com I know it'slong, but at least it's pretty
easy. Or you can send any of usa DM on LinkedIn. Our our
(54:21):
current just podcast site alsohas like lists of all the hosts
so you can learn about us aswell. So I want to thank you
too, for joining us. This hasbeen lovely. It's been wonderful
having some new voices here. AndI'm looking forward to seeing
both of you and for for futureepisodes. So
Erica (54:39):
yeah, it's nice to get to talk to all of you and seeing
your faces actually on cameraand hear you since I know both
of you for a little while now.
So I really enjoyed it. Thanksfor having me.
Devin (54:51):
What I'm saying like, Oh, you're a real person. Oh, yeah.
Erica (54:55):
I'm a real person this fight ya know what you think?
But it's has been really nice.
Vanessa (55:01):
It's weird to actually talk to people like in quote
unquote in person. Switch soused to just text and chat
anymore so, okay, thank you bothso much for joining. Everyone
listening. Thank you so much forlistening. Tell your friends. We
love hearing from you
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