July 25, 2024 • 51 mins
In this insightful episode of the Transcending Humanity Podcast, Vanessa Joy welcomes Nikki Smith, a dedicated death doula, to discuss the profound and often challenging experiences surrounding death and grief. Nikki shares her journey to becoming a death doula during the COVID-19 pandemic, detailing how she found this work rewarding and established her LLC to support families during their most vulnerable moments. The episode delves into the importance of compassion and empathy in end-of-life care, with Nikki recounting her emotionally taxing yet rewarding experiences, including working with close friends and navigating the complexities of familial relationships in her professional role.
Vanessa and Nikki explore various facets of grief and loss, touching on personal stories and the emotional impact of working with individuals facing death. Nikki sheds light on her experiences during the AIDS crisis and dealing with elderly abuse, emphasizing the critical need for empathy and understanding towards vulnerable populations. The discussion takes a poignant turn as they address the disproportionate impact of suicide on the queer community, particularly among trans youth, and the significance of acceptance and support in preventing such tragedies.
The episode also covers the practical aspects of end-of-life planning, including the importance of advance directives and accessible medical documents for queer individuals. Nikki offers valuable advice on establishing support systems for medical decision-making and finding community resources for end-of-life planning. Vanessa shares her personal strategies for dealing with online criticism and maintaining positivity amidst challenging times.
In a lighter segment, Vanessa and Nikki play a game discussing end-of-the-world scenarios, showcasing their dark humor and camaraderie. Through heartfelt stories, practical advice, and a touch of humor, this episode provides listeners with a deeper understanding of death, grief, and the importance of compassion in our lives.
More on Nikki:
IG and TT Handles: @nikkithedeathdoula
www.nikkithedeathdoula.com
Good Grief Podcast with Nikki the Death Doula: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nikkideathdoula
Executive Producer and Host: Vanessa Joy: https://linktr.ee/vanesstradiol
Vanesstradiol Podcast - Copyright © 2023-2025 Vanessa Joy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa (00:00):
I don't really edit the episodes much though. I've had a
(00:02):
lot of tech issues. Oh, okay, solike we're recording right now.
So if people listen to thissorry for last week with any
tech issues, and we're suddenlylike I was talking over, Sarah I
didn't mean to be because Icouldn't hear her and there is
offensive group chat going on.
So hopefully that will happenthis time. Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to transcendinghumanity. This is episode 4048
(00:27):
Alisha? This is episode 48 I'mVanessa Joy. AKA when Australia
your hostess with the sum of itsasbestos stuff. And yeah I want
to do a little tricky morning onthis one or content warning or
(00:51):
whatever we're gonna be talkingabout some pretty deep stuff.
We're getting into death insuicides, stuff like that. This
might get my lovely guest here.
Hopefully, if I'm pointing thisway in the final edit, it'll be
pointing at her and not theother way. So my lovely guest is
Nikki the death doula. Soobviously there's going to be a
(01:13):
little bit of depth talk. Nikkiruns a podcast called Good
grief. I was on I was a guest onit. Last week, aired last week.
You really want to hear aboutall the bullshit that I've dealt
with with my family and how it'snot necessarily a bad thing to
(01:36):
not be upset when a parent diescheck out her podcast you should
be checking it out anywaysbecause she's Nikki and she is
badass just a reminder the viewsand opinions of myself Nikki and
anyone else that was in the showare their own and not their
respective organizations thisSaturday other that obviously I
speak on behalf of transcendinghumanity. I would like to remind
(02:00):
everybody Patreon subscribe thatkind of stuff. Thank you to my
buddy bears and above. And ourmerch shop is still there. And
I'm thinking about making Tamalashirt. Where I say something
like it's time for a woman toshow America what great truly
is. I think we need that soAnyways, enough yammering on
(02:27):
this is a show where everycouple of minutes in people are
like the fuck is going on here.
I would love to introduce NikkiSmith. The death doula.
Actually, I will have herintroduce herself herself Nikki.
Introduce yourself.
Nikki Smith (02:43):
Hi, I'm Nikki. I'm Nikki Nikki Smith. I'm a death
doula and a grief coach. I'mlocated in Columbus, Ohio, and I
help the dying and their lovedones navigate the end of life
journey.
Vanessa (02:59):
Which I mean, because there's doulas for birth. So why
shouldn't there be one for endof life?
Nikki Smith (03:08):
Absolutely agree.
Because
Vanessa (03:09):
honestly, the two events in our lives are pretty
similar in a lot of ways,
Nikki Smith (03:14):
are dying is very much a labor. It very much is a
labor and there's a lot involvedin dying. So
Vanessa (03:23):
how did you get into becoming a death doula?
Nikki Smith (03:29):
So I had heard about death, doulas on a YouTube
podcast episode years ago. And Ijust thought that sounded like
such a cool thing. I'd worked innursing homes, volunteer to
hospice, and I was like, oh,that's like a thing. A thing.
That's like a thing people coulddo that's so cool, and
(03:50):
immediately became obsessed. Iwas finding everything I could
find which at that time, therewasn't a lot. It's a death.
doula movement hasn't beenaround super long. Just since
like 2000, like late aughts,late, late early 2000s, I guess
you could say, but everything Icould find I was reading up on I
(04:12):
just thought it was super cool.
It was always in the back of mybrain. But I had a very nice
cushy full time job and it atthe time, and I was like, Yeah,
never actually do that though.
Flash forward to COVID. And likeeverybody else, I was still
thankfully employed, but I wasat home with nothing to do but
reevaluate my entire life onthis planet.
Vanessa (04:33):
And it was can really, right
Nikki Smith (04:35):
I think a lot of people made big life changes
during COVID. So I came
Vanessa (04:39):
out, UFC, I was after that.
Nikki Smith (04:43):
I can't say I did that. But I definitely decided
to shake things up in my life.
And I started training to be adeath doula. I went to the
international end of life doulaAssociation, and day one of
training first day down and Iwas I just knew this is what I
meant to do. So, finish up thetraining started my
(05:04):
certification process. Andduring all that I opened my LLC
started seeing clients and hereI am.
Vanessa (05:12):
That's, that's amazing.
That's me so rewarding to haveyou. Yeah. How do you cope with
so much death though? Like, areyou able to step aside a little
bit? Do you like try not to workwith family members or someone
that you're too close with?
Nikki Smith (05:29):
Or yeah, I, I always said I would not be a
doula to a family member. Mostlybecause I mean, part of the
reason I'm coming into thisspace with families is so that
the children or the loved onessurrounding surrounding the
dying person who I can talktoday, surrounding the dying
person can just be there inwhatever that capacity is their
(05:52):
daughter, their spouse, theirloved one, whatever that is,
they can just be there in thatcapacity and not do all the crap
so to speak. So, you know, whenit comes down to when my parents
get to their end of life, Iwould rather be there as their
daughter than their doula. Thatmakes sense. Absolutely. So I, I
(06:13):
like I said, I wouldn't doanybody to close to me, I did, I
did serve as a doula for a veryclose friend. And I don't regret
it, I was so happy I was thereand able to help and they're
very grateful for me as well.
But it was that one was a lotharder on me. It took a while.
It's, you know, I, when she whenshe died, I wasn't present at
the time. But, you know, the herdaughter texted me and said she,
(06:35):
you know, she's gone now. And I,I didn't know how to process
that, like, do I process this asa friend as the doula and it was
very confusing for me. So Iwouldn't make that I wouldn't do
that again. But also, when I'mworking with somebody I'm in,
I'm in work mode, if that makessense. I don't know my work is
different than you know, typingaway to computer. But much like
(06:57):
a therapist is not going to betaking on their clients problems
too hard, you know, and they'rein therapist mode. I'm in doula
mode when I'm working. That'snot to say I don't care and I
don't feel a lot of feelings formy clients, because I do I grow
to love them, because I'mworking with them in their most
intimate vulnerable moments. ButI'm also able to just kind of
(07:21):
take that hold space, you know,I'll when I leave after work of
the client, I'll take some timealone in my car and just feel
the feelings hold their holdtheir grief, hold their sadness,
whatever their, their thoughtsor feelings were that day. And
then I just kind of pack away ina little box and put it up on my
mental shelf, and leave it thereuntil the next time, I need to
get it down. It's
Vanessa (07:42):
That's smart. It's, you have to do what you anything
that you can do to survive withthose kinds of heavy things that
you're dealing with. And I mean,you see a lot of professions
work with that too, though, likedoctors, nurses, hospital staff,
you know, as you said,therapists stuff like that. So
(08:03):
you train yourself to step backa little bit.
Nikki Smith (08:06):
And it's like anything, the more you do it, I
don't want to say the easier itgets death is always hard,
right? And it's never gonna geteasier. But the more you do it,
the more you practice anything,the better you get at it. So
it's a little easier for me tocome compartmentalize and you
know, put those feelings awaywhen I need to. Very
Vanessa (08:24):
true, very true. Makes sense. So then, you my brain
just stopped working. Thathappens a lot. Anyone that
listen to this shows likeVanessa's brain stops working in
mind to what we have like twoneurons left, you know, stress
(08:45):
so, right. So you work both withthe person who is in the process
of passing in their families.
Oh, yeah. Who usually fires isit usually a family that hires
years, it's something thatseemed like a living will or
Nikki Smith (09:05):
so, so far everybody that has hired me has
been a family member of thedying person. I have had people
with diagnoses that have reachedout to me just to ask questions
or, you know, get a littleguidance, but I haven't really
worked with them in a full scopeas a doula, but so far, and
that's just the way it's workedout. I don't know how normal
(09:26):
that is with other doulas but sofar everybody that's hired me
has been a family member theirtheir person has been on board,
I would never work with somebodywho doesn't want me there. So
that's the first question I askis, do they know you're reaching
out to me? And are they okaywith working with me? And if
they say no, and know that I'mgonna say that I can't help you.
So I'm not going to force myselfon anybody that doesn't want my
(09:48):
services?
Vanessa (09:49):
No. You see that so often too, especially with
elderly elderly abuse? Yeah,stuff like that. Where they just
they start talking about thesethese People like they're just
things and forgotten. And it'sheartbreaking, absolutely
heartbreaking. There's so manypeople that are just fully
(10:10):
alone. I think I think youmentioned when you're
interviewing me, like duringthe, during the AIDS crisis,
where there were people that,like were dying alone, because
doctors, nurses, no one wantedto go near them. And the
heartbreak of that, like, oh, Ican't even imagine. Yeah,
Nikki Smith (10:34):
yeah, there were, there would be so many people
dying in hospitals. And when itwas so new and stigmatized,
there would be nurses that wouldrefuse to touch them. And you
have to physically touch peopleas a nurse, like, where they
would just make it so limited.
And I mean, sure, when you're inthe hospital, you got, you know,
one nurse for, you know, howevermany people so they can't spend
(10:55):
all day with you, but they'll atleast hold your hand and talk to
you for a minute. But all theseall these people dying of AIDS
were like, the nurses would comein and like barely touch them,
the doctors would stand at theother end of the room, and talk
at them and then leave withoutever touching them. And knowing
it, knowing what we know now, weknow that's horrendous. It was
(11:15):
horrendous at the time. But I'mhoping now we're a little more
compassionate. And now that weknow how this is transmitted,
that doctors and nurses arebeing a little nicer about this.
Vanessa (11:27):
We can only hope. I mean, not all of them. But yeah.
I'm you said like death doulaand modern culture is kind of a
newer thing. But I would imagineit's has a long history back
through the years have you doneresearch on the history of it,
and so
Nikki Smith (11:46):
there isn't much like specific. So, okay, so the
to go way back. The word doulais from the ancient Greek word
dulay, which is female maidservant. It's also translated as
female slave, but I prefer maidservant. Right, so and so doulas
have been around in somecapacity or another since
(12:08):
ancient Greek times, and most ofthem were there for births. But
there's been references here andthere of doulas or you know
dulay working with people atdifferent times in their life
sometimes just helping out withthe wedding or helping out with
you know, sex so it's just kindof assumed that they probably
were helping people with dyingas well. And there are in other
(12:31):
cultures there are people thatare death walkers that do some
basically what we're doing so adeath doula is not a brand new
thing, but a death doula as weknow it right now, the trainings
that are out there, thecertifications that are out
there are all new ish. Sosomebody just finally made a
label for it, so to speak. Yeah.
Vanessa (12:53):
Yeah, like it's probably just like, absorbing
techniques just built up throughthe years but I like your your
point with doulas having beenwith other major events like
wedding sex and stuff like that.
A doula is a guide. Really.
Someone to give you somedirection, be it starting your
(13:18):
life, middle of your life, majorthings, and I love that.
Honestly, before I met you, Ididn't even know death. doulas
were a thing. So now I can thankBecky and her podcast collective
for that. So Thanks, Becky.
Maybe I should run one of herads on this on this episode.
(13:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So right here, putit right if I remember. And
that's about like a gap orsomething. So like
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Vanessa (14:26):
Okay, there's an audio gap. Hopefully I'll find that.
If there isn't an ad insertedright here, you'll know that
Vanessa is just a flake becauseI am. So when it comes to death
and dying, as you know, theshow's fairly queer focused,
it's not like as trans focus asit used to be, but it's run by a
(14:48):
trans person and most of my cohosts are queer in one way,
shape or form. One thing thatour community's struggles with a
lot is Um, we're almost we'repast 10 minutes in. So this
might eventually get monetizedas suicide goes on YouTube and
(15:09):
other algorithm. But it'ssomething that is effective
effectively for us. I myself hada incident back in April. And
throughout my life, I've hadsuicidal ideation. It's only
been since I'm finally on thecorrect medication and have my
(15:32):
ADHD under control and have myhormones in check that I haven't
had a suicidal thought inmonths, which is mind blowing
for me, because usually it'severyday. So those in the queer
community those not in the queercommunity, just, if you have
those thoughts all the time.
Know that it is normal. A lot ofpeople a lot of other people
(15:52):
feel this too. But you stillneed to talk to somebody. Yeah.
So getting back to my point,suicide is a very common thing
in the queer community,especially in the trans
community, especially in thetrans youth. And people find
themselves suddenly missing afamily member, in some cases out
(16:12):
of nowhere, because they mightnot know how that person how
much that person was struggling.
And a suicide. It's one of thosetricky things in that someone
could seem completely fine. Andthe next day they're gone. Yeah,
a lot of times is people thatdon't feel heard, or they are
(16:35):
being oppressed in one way,shape or another. So for family
and friends of, of the queercommunity. What advice would you
have, especially if they didn'tnecessarily know that the person
that took their life was queerin one way, shape, or form? What
(17:00):
advice do you have for unpackingthat? I know, that's a deep
question.
Nikki Smith (17:06):
I know that is a deep question. So and there's a
yeah, that's, that's a lot.
There's a lot to unpack withthat. But no, that's okay. It's
a great question, because I getasked questions like this a lot.
And so, even just a setback, ifyou've lost somebody in your
life to suicide. There's a lotof cases where they sit, you'll
hear I had no idea they weredepressed, I had no idea
(17:28):
anything was wrong. Or theymight say I had no idea they
were queer. And first of all,don't. It's it's easy to sit
back and say, I should haveknown No, you probably didn't
for a reason. I've had a longhistory of suicidal ideation,
myself, and I, that's one of thethings I don't talk about.
Because there's stigma we allknow, there's stigma around
(17:52):
suicide. And there's stigmaaround feeling it or stigma
around the act. There's stigmaaround the family members that
should have known. And it's,it's stupid and unfounded. And
that's why we don't nobody'stalking about it. So you know,
you probably didn't know youprobably had no idea. Because
they were scared, they werescared to ask for help, or they
(18:13):
were scared to let it be knownthat they weren't well, and when
it comes to the queer community,there's a lot of stigma with
that, too. Unfortunately, itpisses me off. I wish there
wasn't, but there is there'sjust too many people that are
you know, ostracized by theirfamily members, ostracized by
their friends and findthemselves completely alone and
(18:34):
or worse, yet abused, hurt,attacked, you know, whatever,
because of their, whatevertheir, you know, their their
queer identification might be,and there's so much stigma with
it, that they're terrified totalk about it. So they just see
people around them being abused,hurt, or, you know, looked down
on whatever and they say, Ican't live that way. And they
(18:57):
might take their own life. Andthere's nothing if it's done,
it's done, right? You We can'tchange the past. I wish we
could, but we can't change that.
The number one thing you can dois if it's if somebody in your
life has come has taken theirown life, because they were
(19:18):
queer, and they felt like theycouldn't come out to anybody.
For PUC sake, find somebodythat's queer and accept them and
just know that that's, that'sthe thing you can change. You
can help that for the nextperson. There's so many people I
work with or know that work indeath and dying or bereavement
or grief support, that havetaken their grief and done
(19:41):
something amazing with it.
They've i There's a woman herein Dayton, who started a whole
program called grief to hope forpeople who have lost their
children. Younger or adult shelost her adult son he was
murdered, and she took that shecould have just disappeared into
herself and beat herself up forthe rest of her life or not
being able to save her son butshe turned it into something
amazing. So turn it intosomething good.
Vanessa (20:05):
That's amazing advice.
One thing that we constantlyforget, just as humans, is we
can't change the past. The pastis the past, this past is the
past. And I know it's mucheasier said than done. And
personally, as someone that'sdealt with a lot of abuse and
trauma and stuff like that, it'sonly been somewhat recently that
(20:25):
I'm finally letting myself dipaway from all that and live my
life. If someone has, if someonehas taken their own life, or
been murdered, or whateverreason is gone from your life in
one way or another, that youdon't have any control over. You
set situation to learn. Yeah,especially if you find out some
(20:50):
things about the person that youdidn't know, like, if they're
part of the queer community.
Most people, not all people, butmost people can grow and learn.
And it's what you have to do.
It's, it's how we will surviveas a species is by having
empathy. Yeah. And as, as Nickysaid, you know, embrace someone
(21:16):
else. Get involved withcommunity. Let people know that
you're safe and can be trusted.
And remember that that trust isearned not. You don't just take
it. Yeah.
Nikki Smith (21:33):
Yeah, use it to honor them in some way. Like
when you see so many people thatwill lose somebody to cancer and
they form a team for a 5k inthere that raises money for
cancer. And that's, that'sgreat. Go to a Pride March. Go
to raise funds for mental healthawareness, like do something in
(21:54):
their name, you know, plant atree, I don't know, do something
beautiful to honor their memory,so that they are still alive in
some way. They're not physicallyhere, but you can keep their
memory alive.
Vanessa (22:06):
The pricing is pretty big. It's something that we
talked about in our prideepisode three episodes back. The
free mom hugs free dad hugs.
Nikki Smith (22:15):
Yes. The thing that I do I do the free mom hugs.
Yeah.
Vanessa (22:19):
Like, I know, there's some sad people that are worried
that it will offend people inour community. No, no. As long
as you're genuine. Yeah. Becausewe assess you out if you're not,
but so many in the community,have been ostracized by family.
And sometimes we just need afucking hug. Yeah. And having a
(22:41):
stranger. Willing to be thatvulnerable with us is a major
thing. And it can turn someone'slife around, it really can.
Simple things can turn people'slife around, just in your day to
day life. If you just make it apoint, to not be an asshole to
(23:09):
step one and kill ya smart,they'll
Transcending Humanity (23:11):
be an asshole.
Vanessa (23:14):
You would think it would be easy, but uh, so many
people struggle with it. Butlike you don't have to go out of
your way like you don't need tobuy someone the car behind you
at Starbucks a coffee which youshouldn't be doing anyways. Keep
that money as a tip to thebarista. If someone is in Drive
Thru to get a coffee at a coffeeshop, they can afford that car.
(23:37):
Yeah, give that money to thepeople that are being graded by
these assholes. That was on theside. And we shouldn't be on the
Starbucks anyways, but yeah,they sponsored the urn. See
those fuckers? I
Nikki Smith (23:52):
don't know. I don't like their coffee anyway, so I
don't care.
Vanessa (23:55):
Now that I live in downtown, Maslen, there's a
place here called treatmentcoffee. It's like a little local
chain and they're so fuckinggood. So yeah, that's my go
Nikki Smith (24:06):
to your local places. I do that. Exactly.
Vanessa (24:08):
Exactly. But yeah, just excuse me. If I made myself that
came up, treat people nice,like, you know, compliment a
cashier in their hair or holdthe door for somebody or just
little things. Those littleniceties. You could seriously
(24:31):
save somebody's life withoutknowing it, just by treating
them with dignity throughout theday. So
Nikki Smith (24:37):
just smiling at somebody could be what they
needed that day. You know,
Vanessa (24:42):
I know I've been there.
And I'm sure you have and I'msure a lot of the listeners and
viewers have to so it's it'shard, especially if you're
having a rough day yourself too.
But it's also a good way to turnyour own day around by just kind
of resetting yourself a littlebit. it. Yeah. Have you worked
(25:03):
with many cases with familieswhere there's a suicide to help
them through that? Or?
Nikki Smith (25:09):
I have not.
However, I for three, fouryears, I was a volunteer at the
suicide hotline. Yeah. And I doI also do grief coaching. And
no, I don't think any of myclients lost anybody to suicide.
But I've helped in supportgroups for that before. So I
(25:29):
have at least spoken withpeople. But I haven't directly
had a client. But yeah, Ivolunteered at the suicide
hotline for a long time. So Ilearned a whole lot about
suicide loss while I was there.
That's
Vanessa (25:43):
amazing.
Unknown (25:44):
That's hard. Yeah, I
Vanessa (25:46):
can imagine I've, I've utilized that myself. These
couple of years ago, I did thatI texted them. And it's helps
Yeah, the amount of empathy thatyou have to have to do something
like that. Had to be hard intraining. But then rewarding is
Nikki Smith (26:10):
there is compassion, fatigue is totally a
thing. And mine kicked in about40 minutes. If a call went on
longer than 40 minutes, it wasreally, really hard for me to
hold that compassion. And thatsounds terrible. But I'm a human
being to like anybody, anybodywould tell you the same thing.
And honestly, the calls thatthat were, we really genuinely
(26:31):
help somebody that called injust like, you know, where they
were really, you know, on themetaphorical ledge, so to speak,
and just need somebody to talkthem down for a second, those
calls would be relatively short,and they felt great. You could
tell like, okay, they're,they're okay, they're safe.
They're gonna go to theirfriend's house, whatever. It was
all the other calls, we got thepeople that just would talk your
(26:52):
ear off for 45 minutes aboutnothing. The prank calls the
poor, like, we would get theperv calls to like, who? Who,
what? We would
Vanessa (27:02):
consider that.
Nikki Smith (27:03):
Yeah, you hear people whacking off and it's
like, Dude, you call the suicidehotline to whack off? real
classy.
Vanessa (27:12):
I never even thought of that employee has to.
Nikki Smith (27:16):
Oh, yeah, people there. Okay, I did. I do have
one quick story about that. So Iwas I was, I worked midnight to
6am. Friday into Saturday. So Iwas busy on those nights. And I
had somebody call in that. Itsounded like a teenage girl who
said, my friends here, she'sgonna kill herself. I said,
okay, and I went through thewhole process and like, what's
going on? Is there a weapon inthe room? Does she you know,
(27:38):
whatever. And they hung up, andI was like, shit. So you know,
when they hang up. If you gettheir number, you can try to
call it back. nobody's answeringthe call back again. And then
they said something else aboutlike, she's gonna cut and then I
heard giggling and I'm like, Oh,this is a prank call. But you
can't assume that right off thebat. So I was going through the
motions. And I was like, youknow, is everything okay? What
(27:59):
tell me about what's going onWhat led you to this? And they
hung up again. And I was like, Iwas pissed at that point. I'm
like, No, this is a prank call.
I kid you not. 10 minutes later,they called back and they
apologized to me. Really? Yeah,they were like they got they
were like, We got off the phoneand we couldn't believe how
sweet and like, caring you werelike, You really gave a shit.
I'm like, Yeah, I thought youwere gonna hurt yourself. Yes,
(28:23):
I'm here. That's what we do. Andthey were just so blown away by
the fact that I was I caredenough to help talk them out of
it. That they wanted toapologize to me. I'm like, Don't
do that again. Like, thank youfor apologizing. Don't fucking
do that again. Okay.
Vanessa (28:43):
Hoping a lesson was learned there. Yeah, that's a
yes.
Nikki Smith (28:48):
I mean, we're all idiots when we're teenagers. I'm
a prank, too. And I was anasshole when I was a teenager
too, but I have since learned,so.
Vanessa (28:56):
I don't I definitely did prank calls but I don't
really even as weird as I am. Idon't think I could have called
the suicide hotline course Ididn't know it existed. Yeah, it
did exist then. I don't know.
But I guess we should mentionedsuicide hotlines. 9886. Or
Nikki Smith (29:16):
call or text call or text either one. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (29:20):
And it helps it sometimes just as Nikki said,
sometimes you're gonna latch andyou can get talked down but shit
in April with my own attempt.
Like I was standing in thekitchen with a handful of pills
for like 45 minutes, juststaring at it. And Ultra
cautious that one hand movementand I miss talk myself down, but
(29:43):
it's not always possible. Yeah.
Don't be afraid. There's nostigma at all want
Nikki Smith (29:54):
to know and if you're calling that line, I
promise you the person that isanswering You're not bothering
them, you're not offending them.
And they do care. Because we hadlike, I went through a 10 week
training process, it was insane.
The amount of training had to gothrough for that. And they won't
let somebody do this. That'sgoing to be rude or doesn't
(30:17):
care. So that's the one thing Iheard so much of as I didn't
want to be a bother. It's like,Oh, my God, that's literally why
we're here. You're so don'tthink you're a bother. Don't
think you're irritating? Anybodydon't think you're offending
them just call for the love ofPete call?
Vanessa (30:36):
That's very important message there too, about being a
bother. Yeah, that's I know,that's a feeling that I've had,
and probably when you've hadwith ideation, and the entire
point of the service is to helpyou. And they are there. Yeah,
they're there to answer thephone or answer texts to talk to
(30:59):
you, and you're not botheringthem. So did you have to take
like mandatory like breaks andstuff like that to like for a
few days to?
Nikki Smith (31:08):
I'm trying to remember because it's been a
minute. We were we only everworked one shift a week. You
could sign up for more, but Idon't know if they ever like
kept you? Or said you couldn'tdo more. I'm honestly not sure.
And who knows, each center mightbe different. But where I was we
(31:29):
were only manded. not mandated.
But we were required to work.
One shift a week. And that wasit. And each shift was three to
six hours. So you could workthree hours a week. That's fine.
Vanessa (31:40):
That's a lot too. Oh, yeah. That's not a job that I
think anybody could or should bedoing full time. So oh, God, I
would absolutely destroy your
Nikki Smith (31:50):
Yeah, I couldn't imagine like six. When we when
you first come out of trainingmate, we had to do six hours a
week. And for at least thisfirst six months, just to make
sure you really wanted to do it.
And you know, plus, they reallythey were always short
volunteers. We needed help sobad. And six hours a week was
plenty more than enough.
Vanessa (32:14):
Can imagine. Yeah. You said it's a volunteer position.
Yeah. Pay for that. So thatmeans that if people aren't
getting paid for it, it meansthat they actually want to be
there. Yeah. Because otherwisethey wouldn't be there. Yeah.
That's what does it take to getinvolved to volunteer for that?
(32:40):
Are there like, rules andregulations? I imagine that Oh,
Nikki Smith (32:44):
yeah. Oh, yeah, there's, there's background
checks. Gosh, this was like2016, I think when I started
volunteering there, but I knew Ihad to go through a background
check. I had to do two separateinterviews. And then once I was
accepted, I had to go throughlike I said, it may have been
eight weeks was a very rigoroustraining program. And it was it
(33:05):
was just one night a week, butit was like three hours, each
every week for that whole time.
And it was a lot of justlearning about different types
of mental illness crisis, deescalation, policies and
procedures. And every senatormight be different. I trained
here in Columbus, for the localhotline, but we also answered
calls from the national hotlineto this was prior to 988. But
(33:27):
there was the, like, 888273 talkor helper, I forget, it's been
so long. If you ever call thatnumber, it would route you to
the local center to the areacode you are calling from, which
is great in the beginning, butwhen with cell phones, you know,
(33:47):
it doesn't mean anything doesn'tmean much. So we get calls from
people in Texas, they justhappen to have a 614 area code.
But they try to get you to alocal center because we have
resources for like localhospitals, local places, you can
go to if you need.
Vanessa (34:08):
Yeah. Which makes sense. And plus when you're
talking to someone local, theythey also know the unique
pressures of that particulararea. Exactly.
Nikki Smith (34:16):
I can't really identify with somebody in
Phoenix who might be dealingwith depression from the
heatwave or California at theSanta Ana winds I hear that
drives people to suicide a lot.
So yeah, yeah, I read it. I dida an essay or not an essay, a
thesis in college on suicideawareness. And I was reading up
(34:36):
on different factors of suicideand there was a whole, like,
tons of articles I found onpeople going a little crazy
during the Santa Ana winds. AndI know it's interesting. And
yeah, weather can do a lot man.
It can really play like peoplewho live in areas that don't get
(34:59):
a lot of sudden they get moredepressed. Yeah, right. I
Northeast
Vanessa (35:04):
Ohio. Yeah. Which a lot of people don't realize like
everyone thinks like Seattle
Unknown (35:09):
when it comes to Seattle gets more.
Vanessa (35:12):
Yeah like Seattle in Northeast Ohio like we bounced
back and forth for being thegloomiest. Yeah. And that's why
there's a giant military base inRavenna because there's so much
cloud cover. But good is we gotsome deep stuff here. Is there
anything else that you wanted totell Yammer about while you're
(35:32):
here?
Nikki Smith (35:33):
So the only other hill I have to die on is telling
people to fill out theiradvanced directive paperwork?
Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Please, ifyou do nothing else, fill out a
living will. And your livingwill is the it's that's your
Advanced Directive. That is theif I'm in a permanent vegetative
state, no hope of cure or wakingup. What? Do I want to be
(35:58):
artificially kept alive? Or do Iwant you to let me go fill that
out? Because if they don't know,they don't know. And they might
keep you alive artificially foryears. And oh, my God, that's
awful for you. That's awful foryour family, and very expensive.
Yeah, it's just there's verylittle and yeah, there are
stories of people that are incomas for 20 years, and they
(36:19):
wake up, but they're neverreally the same. You know, when
your time skips there, too?
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if nothingelse, fill out a living well,
for the love of God.
Vanessa (36:32):
Yeah, I actually, I have one that I did through
Legal Zoom. And there you goback and like fully updated 50
bucks or something like that.
There's not too much.
Nikki Smith (36:42):
You can you can use free services. Yeah, you can do
them for free. Like in Ohio. I,I don't I can give you the link,
if you want to put it in your,in your show notes. There's a
link through I think is throughOhioHealth. But they have all of
the documents they Living Willfinal or not final a Living Will
Power of Attorney, financial andmedical guardianship, DNR, all
(37:06):
of that in one packet. And ithas questions like FAQs on which
ones you need, and when. And allyou have to do is fill them out
and have them notarized. That'sit, then they're legally
binding. That said, if they'resitting in a drawer somewhere
that that's not going to helpyou. So make sure somebody has
copies of them. That
Vanessa (37:25):
was going to be my next question. In the queer
community, there's a fair numberof us that don't really have
many people we're close to. Andit can be kind of a lonely
existence. What would yousuggest people do with those
(37:47):
documents to make themaccessible for people?
Nikki Smith (37:49):
So first, before that, as far as like medical
power of attorney is differentthan a living well, that's where
you have somebody you wouldappoint to make decisions on
your behalf if you're not ableto. So that's not necessarily
you're in a coma forever, you'renot gonna wake up, this might
just be you're in surgery,something happened, whatever,
there's some reason you can'tmake medical decisions, they can
(38:11):
do that for you. Pick somebodyyou trust, if they if you don't
have one of those. And this isso important for people in the
queer community who might beestranged from their family,
they will go to next of kin. Andif you don't trust your next of
kin, or they don't align withyour beliefs, they won't make
the decisions you might want. Somake sure you have picked
somebody you trust. And this canbe a friend, it can be a
(38:32):
neighbor, just make sure they'reokay with it too, because they
have to sign the document aswell. But once you have those
forms, I know in Ohio, if youhave an online my chart portal,
which I like, I think everystate has their own version of a
my charts through epic. Youshould there's a place you can
upload it. So your doctor'soffice should do that. Yes, I
(38:56):
have it. It's really goodadvice. I have my chart for OSU
and Ohio Health and Central Ohioprimary care and I've uploaded
it to all three places. You cangive a copy to your doctor
physically, like take a copy andgive it to your doctor next time
you go and say put this in myfile. So they'll have that as
well. That's
Vanessa (39:16):
good advice.
Definitely. Good advice. Andwhile you're talking an idea
popped in my head of even justhaving a little coalition of
local local people, local queerpeople local, just whatever. And
sounds fucked up. But have ahave a well, buddy, essentially,
(39:39):
yeah.
Nikki Smith (39:42):
Fucked up at all.
Not No, I think that's awonderful idea. As long as as
long as you trust that person,you know, they'll make the
decisions you want, then yeah,there's nothing I wish I tell
people. I have a workbook on mywebsite for people who might not
have family left or who areestranged from their family. How
do I plan for by end of life,and I encourage you to dig deep
like maybe if you're a part ofan organization, is there
(40:05):
somebody within that organ itdoesn't have to be a church or
you know, maybe if it's areligious organization, that's a
great place to look. But a localchapter of, you know, like in
Columbus, we have StonewallColumbus, and there's a great
organizations there that helppeople in the queer community,
there might be somebody therethat's willing to do that. put
an ad on Craigslist, don't putit out on Craigslist. I'm
(40:28):
kidding. Don't do that.
Unknown (40:30):
Don't do this.
Nikki Smith (40:31):
Don't do that.
Yeah, just you know, if, ifthere's really genuinely nobody
in your life, will find somebodyfor you ask, you know, ask
around. There is a Facebookgroup that I'm part of called
stand with pride in the Midwest.
And I know they stand with prideand other areas of the country
(40:54):
to where people can reach out tolook for, you know, surrogate
family members, like I'm gettingmarried, and I want somebody to
walk me down the aisle, who willbe my my dad, and people will
volunteer, I will walk you downthe aisle. They'll ask people to
show up at their graduation.
It's like, yeah, so there arepeople out there that will do
that for you.
Vanessa (41:13):
And that kind of stuff really, you know, helps give
faith in humanity. Especiallylike, with us being just,
especially lately just beenbombarded by so much bad news,
in fact that politics on, youknow, the for profit news cycle
and everything. So it's nice tohear the stories of people like
that to show, you know, overall,humans aren't that terrible.
(41:37):
Yeah, as much as I like to sayhumans.
Nikki Smith (41:39):
And if I find myself on Facebook, getting real
pissed off, I scroll over to mygroups, and I go find stand with
pride and Midwest and I justread through posts and comments,
and I feel good again. There arepeople out there that give a
shit.
Vanessa (41:54):
There are and remember, if you're starting to get into
like an argument or someone onFacebook or social media, just
Nikki Smith (42:02):
don't. Don't just there's no point.
Vanessa (42:05):
Yeah, there's no point there's there's no winning. And
if, like I don't respond whenpeople post critical stuff on
things I post sometimes I'lljust delete the post. Because I
did that the other day with theRichard Simmons died the same
day that that Trump got shot.
Yeah, no. And so I'm like, inwhat universe is something along
(42:29):
the lines of what universe isfair that, you know, Richard was
taken from us, but the orangemenace just got his ear clipped.
And yeah, bunch of localrealtors that never interact
with me at all. jumped on, like,that's tacky. That's a horrible
thing to say this. And yet I'mlike, this fucker goes in front
of people, and talks about howhe would say, eradicate people
(42:52):
like me, you know? So
Nikki Smith (42:55):
what's tacky is they didn't have the same
response to children being shotin school.
Vanessa (42:59):
Exactly, exactly. Over and over again. So I'm just
like, You know what, I don'teven want this. And as, frankly,
as a business decision, Ideleted it, but don't engage is
what I'm trying to say. It alsotakes away people's power that
they think that they might haveis known as power on the
internet. You know, once you'rein person. We're all just people
(43:24):
just trying to.
Nikki Smith (43:26):
We're all fumbling around here on this blue marble.
Exactly.
Vanessa (43:32):
So I've missed this in the past couple episodes,
because, one, I don't know why Iforgot to do it with Sarah last
week, probably just because I'mflaky and the week before that
ran long with Chloe. So weweren't able to do it. But I'm
gonna bring back courageagainst. So this is the old
(43:54):
school Cards Against Humanity,like the original deck, kind
essentially. So there's nomodifications to this at all.
I'm just kind of going throughand just loosely shuffling and
the rule to this game. Nicki'sexcited. She's, like bouncing up
(44:15):
and down like the rules are. Youpick a card, and we have to come
up with something to respond toit. So it's only black cards,
not the white cards. Butbecause, to me, it usually isn't
a two person game, right? Iremember. I don't know if you
(44:38):
still do it or not. But thereused to be like an eyeline like
techspace version that you playwith like, I played with my
Warcraft friends. Oh, holy shit.
The girls that we were playingwith were fucking raunchy. It
was amazing. It was the bestthing ever. So anyways, so
Nikki? Yeah, Okay, I'm
Nikki Smith (45:00):
ready. Here's a deck.
Vanessa (45:02):
Tell me like approximately where in the deck
you want to pull the cart fromright there. Right? Here are in
like this. Yeah, right there.
Unknown (45:10):
That's fine. Here.
Yeah. Okay.
Vanessa (45:14):
So, this is gonna be your card. Okay. and I are going
to one at random. So the suspectcode. Okay, so are you ready for
your, your, your your stuff?
Nikki Smith (45:35):
I'm writing things already.
Vanessa (45:38):
Okay. I was gonna focus on this, the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang, but with
Nikki Smith (45:52):
Okay, so we were all on SNAP with a bang but with
glitter with glitter. That's
Vanessa (46:00):
a good luck enhancer.
Can you imagine? I mean, enoughglitter would just destroy the
world. I mean, people use themas glitter. Have you seen this
glitter bomb pranks? Yeah, thoseare amazing. So Good answer.
Good answer.
Nikki Smith (46:15):
You could say you better candidate too, but I like
glitter. Glitter
Vanessa (46:18):
is better.
Nikki Smith (46:22):
Craft Supplies it's true. That never goes away.
Vanessa (46:31):
If this episode weren't about death and stuff, I will
tell you. It's the hurt piece ofcraft supplies. Yeah, because
that's a quote. That's a that'sdefinitely a quote. I'm hoping a
little clip generator fromRiverside.
Nikki Smith (46:48):
For that because that one Exactly. Is crossed.
Fingers crossed.
Vanessa (46:51):
You never know what it's gonna do. Okay, so mine
blank. Hit tested. Motherapproved. Okay.
I mean, there's so many thingsand it's just how raunchy to do
(47:12):
we call yours was fairly yoursis fairly clean. But as a
lesbian, I'm just gonna saytoday's mother approved because
I like it. My mom and I do lovesome titties both my both my own
and those of other people.
Nikki Smith (47:30):
That's because Teddy's are fantastic. titties.
Vanessa (47:32):
Everybody loves titties. Everybody loves
studies. Everybody
Nikki Smith (47:36):
loves titties. Oh, yeah.
Vanessa (47:39):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, not not everybody loves to these on
themselves. Like I'm looking at,like trans mask individuals and
stuff. Sure, but the trans masspeople I've talked to still love
Teddy. It's just somebody else.
100% Yeah, I'm so happy thatI've grown my own there. It's
just, you know, just lookingmyself in the mirror just laying
(48:01):
there. I'm like, Oops. Oops.
Yeah, too. These are the best.
Yeah. Do you have any closingthoughts? Anything? That Yeah.
Any anything else that you wantto get out there? To my 90
listeners?
Nikki Smith (48:21):
It's okay to not be okay. But it's also okay to be
okay. Like that's the lesson welearned from when you were on my
episode. As far as death lossand grief, whatever you're gonna
feel is okay, valid and normal.
So don't there's so many peoplethink they're grieving wrong.
You're not how are you doing? Itis exactly right. Just don't
hurt anybody else in theprocess. Whatever you're gonna
(48:43):
feel as I always had my episode,every episode with your grief is
yours. Your feelings are valid.
And grief doesn't always have tosuck. So take with that.
Vanessa (48:54):
That's an amazing, amazing advice. And as alone as
anyone feels in their grief, Iguarantee you somebody else is
the only one that feels thatway. Somebody else has
Nikki Smith (49:05):
felt it thought it said you're never really truly
alone. And you're it's isolate.
Grief is isolating, but you'renever isolating.
Vanessa (49:12):
But if you can find if you can find the strength within
you to talk to somebody and youdon't have to either there's
there's there's no shame in nottalking to somebody, but if you
can, you might find somecommonalities. Like I just
noticed when I was on yourpodcast, just kind of unloading
about my dad, especially thefirst time that we talked before
(49:32):
that, like, it's nice to get allthat out there. Like not a lot
of people knew those thingsabout me beyond like my
therapist and my sons or theirmother. So it's just getting it
out there getting it off yourchest, putting words to it can
help a
Nikki Smith (49:49):
lot, so much. So, yes,
Vanessa (49:53):
it was a pleasure having you on the show. This was
fun. And it was and thank you Tome, thank you for having me. I'm
yours. Yeah. And I kind of givepeople a preview of this because
I ran your ad on last week's. Iran it another time too, but so,
(50:13):
but definitely people go checkout Good grief. Thank you, Nick.
He's a wonderful person and I'mhonored to get to know her and
she's not too far from meeither. So we're gonna have to
we're gonna have to get acoffee. Yes, yeah. I need a trip
to Columbus. So possibly becauseyou either too, they're always
trying to get me to come down.
So yeah,
Nikki Smith (50:35):
if you ever doubt, let me know.
Vanessa (50:38):
I shall, next week and transcending humanity. Let's
see, who do we have? Next weekis Samantha Tiana or tanto. I'm
not quite sure how to pronounceher last name. And the return of
Erica vocal. Samantha is apublished author recently has a
book that just came out. AndErica is a frequent co host on
(51:01):
the show. She has her own bookcoming out. So I'm probably just
gonna sit in the background ofthat episode and let those two
approaches him around aboutwriting and stuff. And hopefully
learn some lessons myselfbecause I want to start my own
my own book. And yeah, and theweek after that, I have someone
lined up hope it works out. He'sa YouTuber, so be fine. Thanks
(51:30):
again for joining us. Nikki.
Thank you again, I know I saidthis already, but you know, and
we will see you next time ontranscending humanity. Laws.
There it is.
I don't really edit the episodes much though. I've had a
(00:02):
lot of tech issues. Oh, okay, solike we're recording right now.
So if people listen to thissorry for last week with any
tech issues, and we're suddenlylike I was talking over, Sarah I
didn't mean to be because Icouldn't hear her and there is
offensive group chat going on.
So hopefully that will happenthis time. Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to transcendinghumanity. This is episode 4048
(00:27):
Alisha? This is episode 48 I'mVanessa Joy. AKA when Australia
your hostess with the sum of itsasbestos stuff. And yeah I want
to do a little tricky morning onthis one or content warning or
(00:51):
whatever we're gonna be talkingabout some pretty deep stuff.
We're getting into death insuicides, stuff like that. This
might get my lovely guest here.
Hopefully, if I'm pointing thisway in the final edit, it'll be
pointing at her and not theother way. So my lovely guest is
Nikki the death doula. Soobviously there's going to be a
(01:13):
little bit of depth talk. Nikkiruns a podcast called Good
grief. I was on I was a guest onit. Last week, aired last week.
You really want to hear aboutall the bullshit that I've dealt
with with my family and how it'snot necessarily a bad thing to
(01:36):
not be upset when a parent diescheck out her podcast you should
be checking it out anywaysbecause she's Nikki and she is
badass just a reminder the viewsand opinions of myself Nikki and
anyone else that was in the showare their own and not their
respective organizations thisSaturday other that obviously I
speak on behalf of transcendinghumanity. I would like to remind
(02:00):
everybody Patreon subscribe thatkind of stuff. Thank you to my
buddy bears and above. And ourmerch shop is still there. And
I'm thinking about making Tamalashirt. Where I say something
like it's time for a woman toshow America what great truly
is. I think we need that soAnyways, enough yammering on
(02:27):
this is a show where everycouple of minutes in people are
like the fuck is going on here.
I would love to introduce NikkiSmith. The death doula.
Actually, I will have herintroduce herself herself Nikki.
Introduce yourself.
Nikki Smith (02:43):
Hi, I'm Nikki. I'm Nikki Nikki Smith. I'm a death
doula and a grief coach. I'mlocated in Columbus, Ohio, and I
help the dying and their lovedones navigate the end of life
journey.
Vanessa (02:59):
Which I mean, because there's doulas for birth. So why
shouldn't there be one for endof life?
Nikki Smith (03:08):
Absolutely agree.
Because
Vanessa (03:09):
honestly, the two events in our lives are pretty
similar in a lot of ways,
Nikki Smith (03:14):
are dying is very much a labor. It very much is a
labor and there's a lot involvedin dying. So
Vanessa (03:23):
how did you get into becoming a death doula?
Nikki Smith (03:29):
So I had heard about death, doulas on a YouTube
podcast episode years ago. And Ijust thought that sounded like
such a cool thing. I'd worked innursing homes, volunteer to
hospice, and I was like, oh,that's like a thing. A thing.
That's like a thing people coulddo that's so cool, and
(03:50):
immediately became obsessed. Iwas finding everything I could
find which at that time, therewasn't a lot. It's a death.
doula movement hasn't beenaround super long. Just since
like 2000, like late aughts,late, late early 2000s, I guess
you could say, but everything Icould find I was reading up on I
(04:12):
just thought it was super cool.
It was always in the back of mybrain. But I had a very nice
cushy full time job and it atthe time, and I was like, Yeah,
never actually do that though.
Flash forward to COVID. And likeeverybody else, I was still
thankfully employed, but I wasat home with nothing to do but
reevaluate my entire life onthis planet.
Vanessa (04:33):
And it was can really, right
Nikki Smith (04:35):
I think a lot of people made big life changes
during COVID. So I came
Vanessa (04:39):
out, UFC, I was after that.
Nikki Smith (04:43):
I can't say I did that. But I definitely decided
to shake things up in my life.
And I started training to be adeath doula. I went to the
international end of life doulaAssociation, and day one of
training first day down and Iwas I just knew this is what I
meant to do. So, finish up thetraining started my
(05:04):
certification process. Andduring all that I opened my LLC
started seeing clients and hereI am.
Vanessa (05:12):
That's, that's amazing.
That's me so rewarding to haveyou. Yeah. How do you cope with
so much death though? Like, areyou able to step aside a little
bit? Do you like try not to workwith family members or someone
that you're too close with?
Nikki Smith (05:29):
Or yeah, I, I always said I would not be a
doula to a family member. Mostlybecause I mean, part of the
reason I'm coming into thisspace with families is so that
the children or the loved onessurrounding surrounding the
dying person who I can talktoday, surrounding the dying
person can just be there inwhatever that capacity is their
(05:52):
daughter, their spouse, theirloved one, whatever that is,
they can just be there in thatcapacity and not do all the crap
so to speak. So, you know, whenit comes down to when my parents
get to their end of life, Iwould rather be there as their
daughter than their doula. Thatmakes sense. Absolutely. So I, I
(06:13):
like I said, I wouldn't doanybody to close to me, I did, I
did serve as a doula for a veryclose friend. And I don't regret
it, I was so happy I was thereand able to help and they're
very grateful for me as well.
But it was that one was a lotharder on me. It took a while.
It's, you know, I, when she whenshe died, I wasn't present at
the time. But, you know, the herdaughter texted me and said she,
(06:35):
you know, she's gone now. And I,I didn't know how to process
that, like, do I process this asa friend as the doula and it was
very confusing for me. So Iwouldn't make that I wouldn't do
that again. But also, when I'mworking with somebody I'm in,
I'm in work mode, if that makessense. I don't know my work is
different than you know, typingaway to computer. But much like
(06:57):
a therapist is not going to betaking on their clients problems
too hard, you know, and they'rein therapist mode. I'm in doula
mode when I'm working. That'snot to say I don't care and I
don't feel a lot of feelings formy clients, because I do I grow
to love them, because I'mworking with them in their most
intimate vulnerable moments. ButI'm also able to just kind of
(07:21):
take that hold space, you know,I'll when I leave after work of
the client, I'll take some timealone in my car and just feel
the feelings hold their holdtheir grief, hold their sadness,
whatever their, their thoughtsor feelings were that day. And
then I just kind of pack away ina little box and put it up on my
mental shelf, and leave it thereuntil the next time, I need to
get it down. It's
Vanessa (07:42):
That's smart. It's, you have to do what you anything
that you can do to survive withthose kinds of heavy things that
you're dealing with. And I mean,you see a lot of professions
work with that too, though, likedoctors, nurses, hospital staff,
you know, as you said,therapists stuff like that. So
(08:03):
you train yourself to step backa little bit.
Nikki Smith (08:06):
And it's like anything, the more you do it, I
don't want to say the easier itgets death is always hard,
right? And it's never gonna geteasier. But the more you do it,
the more you practice anything,the better you get at it. So
it's a little easier for me tocome compartmentalize and you
know, put those feelings awaywhen I need to. Very
Vanessa (08:24):
true, very true. Makes sense. So then, you my brain
just stopped working. Thathappens a lot. Anyone that
listen to this shows likeVanessa's brain stops working in
mind to what we have like twoneurons left, you know, stress
(08:45):
so, right. So you work both withthe person who is in the process
of passing in their families.
Oh, yeah. Who usually fires isit usually a family that hires
years, it's something thatseemed like a living will or
Nikki Smith (09:05):
so, so far everybody that has hired me has
been a family member of thedying person. I have had people
with diagnoses that have reachedout to me just to ask questions
or, you know, get a littleguidance, but I haven't really
worked with them in a full scopeas a doula, but so far, and
that's just the way it's workedout. I don't know how normal
(09:26):
that is with other doulas but sofar everybody that's hired me
has been a family member theirtheir person has been on board,
I would never work with somebodywho doesn't want me there. So
that's the first question I askis, do they know you're reaching
out to me? And are they okaywith working with me? And if
they say no, and know that I'mgonna say that I can't help you.
So I'm not going to force myselfon anybody that doesn't want my
(09:48):
services?
Vanessa (09:49):
No. You see that so often too, especially with
elderly elderly abuse? Yeah,stuff like that. Where they just
they start talking about thesethese People like they're just
things and forgotten. And it'sheartbreaking, absolutely
heartbreaking. There's so manypeople that are just fully
(10:10):
alone. I think I think youmentioned when you're
interviewing me, like duringthe, during the AIDS crisis,
where there were people that,like were dying alone, because
doctors, nurses, no one wantedto go near them. And the
heartbreak of that, like, oh, Ican't even imagine. Yeah,
Nikki Smith (10:34):
yeah, there were, there would be so many people
dying in hospitals. And when itwas so new and stigmatized,
there would be nurses that wouldrefuse to touch them. And you
have to physically touch peopleas a nurse, like, where they
would just make it so limited.
And I mean, sure, when you're inthe hospital, you got, you know,
one nurse for, you know, howevermany people so they can't spend
(10:55):
all day with you, but they'll atleast hold your hand and talk to
you for a minute. But all theseall these people dying of AIDS
were like, the nurses would comein and like barely touch them,
the doctors would stand at theother end of the room, and talk
at them and then leave withoutever touching them. And knowing
it, knowing what we know now, weknow that's horrendous. It was
(11:15):
horrendous at the time. But I'mhoping now we're a little more
compassionate. And now that weknow how this is transmitted,
that doctors and nurses arebeing a little nicer about this.
Vanessa (11:27):
We can only hope. I mean, not all of them. But yeah.
I'm you said like death doulaand modern culture is kind of a
newer thing. But I would imagineit's has a long history back
through the years have you doneresearch on the history of it,
and so
Nikki Smith (11:46):
there isn't much like specific. So, okay, so the
to go way back. The word doulais from the ancient Greek word
dulay, which is female maidservant. It's also translated as
female slave, but I prefer maidservant. Right, so and so doulas
have been around in somecapacity or another since
(12:08):
ancient Greek times, and most ofthem were there for births. But
there's been references here andthere of doulas or you know
dulay working with people atdifferent times in their life
sometimes just helping out withthe wedding or helping out with
you know, sex so it's just kindof assumed that they probably
were helping people with dyingas well. And there are in other
(12:31):
cultures there are people thatare death walkers that do some
basically what we're doing so adeath doula is not a brand new
thing, but a death doula as weknow it right now, the trainings
that are out there, thecertifications that are out
there are all new ish. Sosomebody just finally made a
label for it, so to speak. Yeah.
Vanessa (12:53):
Yeah, like it's probably just like, absorbing
techniques just built up throughthe years but I like your your
point with doulas having beenwith other major events like
wedding sex and stuff like that.
A doula is a guide. Really.
Someone to give you somedirection, be it starting your
(13:18):
life, middle of your life, majorthings, and I love that.
Honestly, before I met you, Ididn't even know death. doulas
were a thing. So now I can thankBecky and her podcast collective
for that. So Thanks, Becky.
Maybe I should run one of herads on this on this episode.
(13:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So right here, putit right if I remember. And
that's about like a gap orsomething. So like
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Vanessa (14:26):
Okay, there's an audio gap. Hopefully I'll find that.
If there isn't an ad insertedright here, you'll know that
Vanessa is just a flake becauseI am. So when it comes to death
and dying, as you know, theshow's fairly queer focused,
it's not like as trans focus asit used to be, but it's run by a
(14:48):
trans person and most of my cohosts are queer in one way,
shape or form. One thing thatour community's struggles with a
lot is Um, we're almost we'repast 10 minutes in. So this
might eventually get monetizedas suicide goes on YouTube and
(15:09):
other algorithm. But it'ssomething that is effective
effectively for us. I myself hada incident back in April. And
throughout my life, I've hadsuicidal ideation. It's only
been since I'm finally on thecorrect medication and have my
(15:32):
ADHD under control and have myhormones in check that I haven't
had a suicidal thought inmonths, which is mind blowing
for me, because usually it'severyday. So those in the queer
community those not in the queercommunity, just, if you have
those thoughts all the time.
Know that it is normal. A lot ofpeople a lot of other people
(15:52):
feel this too. But you stillneed to talk to somebody. Yeah.
So getting back to my point,suicide is a very common thing
in the queer community,especially in the trans
community, especially in thetrans youth. And people find
themselves suddenly missing afamily member, in some cases out
(16:12):
of nowhere, because they mightnot know how that person how
much that person was struggling.
And a suicide. It's one of thosetricky things in that someone
could seem completely fine. Andthe next day they're gone. Yeah,
a lot of times is people thatdon't feel heard, or they are
(16:35):
being oppressed in one way,shape or another. So for family
and friends of, of the queercommunity. What advice would you
have, especially if they didn'tnecessarily know that the person
that took their life was queerin one way, shape, or form? What
(17:00):
advice do you have for unpackingthat? I know, that's a deep
question.
Nikki Smith (17:06):
I know that is a deep question. So and there's a
yeah, that's, that's a lot.
There's a lot to unpack withthat. But no, that's okay. It's
a great question, because I getasked questions like this a lot.
And so, even just a setback, ifyou've lost somebody in your
life to suicide. There's a lotof cases where they sit, you'll
hear I had no idea they weredepressed, I had no idea
(17:28):
anything was wrong. Or theymight say I had no idea they
were queer. And first of all,don't. It's it's easy to sit
back and say, I should haveknown No, you probably didn't
for a reason. I've had a longhistory of suicidal ideation,
myself, and I, that's one of thethings I don't talk about.
Because there's stigma we allknow, there's stigma around
(17:52):
suicide. And there's stigmaaround feeling it or stigma
around the act. There's stigmaaround the family members that
should have known. And it's,it's stupid and unfounded. And
that's why we don't nobody'stalking about it. So you know,
you probably didn't know youprobably had no idea. Because
they were scared, they werescared to ask for help, or they
(18:13):
were scared to let it be knownthat they weren't well, and when
it comes to the queer community,there's a lot of stigma with
that, too. Unfortunately, itpisses me off. I wish there
wasn't, but there is there'sjust too many people that are
you know, ostracized by theirfamily members, ostracized by
their friends and findthemselves completely alone and
(18:34):
or worse, yet abused, hurt,attacked, you know, whatever,
because of their, whatevertheir, you know, their their
queer identification might be,and there's so much stigma with
it, that they're terrified totalk about it. So they just see
people around them being abused,hurt, or, you know, looked down
on whatever and they say, Ican't live that way. And they
(18:57):
might take their own life. Andthere's nothing if it's done,
it's done, right? You We can'tchange the past. I wish we
could, but we can't change that.
The number one thing you can dois if it's if somebody in your
life has come has taken theirown life, because they were
(19:18):
queer, and they felt like theycouldn't come out to anybody.
For PUC sake, find somebodythat's queer and accept them and
just know that that's, that'sthe thing you can change. You
can help that for the nextperson. There's so many people I
work with or know that work indeath and dying or bereavement
or grief support, that havetaken their grief and done
(19:41):
something amazing with it.
They've i There's a woman herein Dayton, who started a whole
program called grief to hope forpeople who have lost their
children. Younger or adult shelost her adult son he was
murdered, and she took that shecould have just disappeared into
herself and beat herself up forthe rest of her life or not
being able to save her son butshe turned it into something
amazing. So turn it intosomething good.
Vanessa (20:05):
That's amazing advice.
One thing that we constantlyforget, just as humans, is we
can't change the past. The pastis the past, this past is the
past. And I know it's mucheasier said than done. And
personally, as someone that'sdealt with a lot of abuse and
trauma and stuff like that, it'sonly been somewhat recently that
(20:25):
I'm finally letting myself dipaway from all that and live my
life. If someone has, if someonehas taken their own life, or
been murdered, or whateverreason is gone from your life in
one way or another, that youdon't have any control over. You
set situation to learn. Yeah,especially if you find out some
(20:50):
things about the person that youdidn't know, like, if they're
part of the queer community.
Most people, not all people, butmost people can grow and learn.
And it's what you have to do.
It's, it's how we will surviveas a species is by having
empathy. Yeah. And as, as Nickysaid, you know, embrace someone
(21:16):
else. Get involved withcommunity. Let people know that
you're safe and can be trusted.
And remember that that trust isearned not. You don't just take
it. Yeah.
Nikki Smith (21:33):
Yeah, use it to honor them in some way. Like
when you see so many people thatwill lose somebody to cancer and
they form a team for a 5k inthere that raises money for
cancer. And that's, that'sgreat. Go to a Pride March. Go
to raise funds for mental healthawareness, like do something in
(21:54):
their name, you know, plant atree, I don't know, do something
beautiful to honor their memory,so that they are still alive in
some way. They're not physicallyhere, but you can keep their
memory alive.
Vanessa (22:06):
The pricing is pretty big. It's something that we
talked about in our prideepisode three episodes back. The
free mom hugs free dad hugs.
Nikki Smith (22:15):
Yes. The thing that I do I do the free mom hugs.
Yeah.
Vanessa (22:19):
Like, I know, there's some sad people that are worried
that it will offend people inour community. No, no. As long
as you're genuine. Yeah. Becausewe assess you out if you're not,
but so many in the community,have been ostracized by family.
And sometimes we just need afucking hug. Yeah. And having a
(22:41):
stranger. Willing to be thatvulnerable with us is a major
thing. And it can turn someone'slife around, it really can.
Simple things can turn people'slife around, just in your day to
day life. If you just make it apoint, to not be an asshole to
(23:09):
step one and kill ya smart,they'll
Transcending Humanity (23:11):
be an asshole.
Vanessa (23:14):
You would think it would be easy, but uh, so many
people struggle with it. Butlike you don't have to go out of
your way like you don't need tobuy someone the car behind you
at Starbucks a coffee which youshouldn't be doing anyways. Keep
that money as a tip to thebarista. If someone is in Drive
Thru to get a coffee at a coffeeshop, they can afford that car.
(23:37):
Yeah, give that money to thepeople that are being graded by
these assholes. That was on theside. And we shouldn't be on the
Starbucks anyways, but yeah,they sponsored the urn. See
those fuckers? I
Nikki Smith (23:52):
don't know. I don't like their coffee anyway, so I
don't care.
Vanessa (23:55):
Now that I live in downtown, Maslen, there's a
place here called treatmentcoffee. It's like a little local
chain and they're so fuckinggood. So yeah, that's my go
Nikki Smith (24:06):
to your local places. I do that. Exactly.
Vanessa (24:08):
Exactly. But yeah, just excuse me. If I made myself that
came up, treat people nice,like, you know, compliment a
cashier in their hair or holdthe door for somebody or just
little things. Those littleniceties. You could seriously
(24:31):
save somebody's life withoutknowing it, just by treating
them with dignity throughout theday. So
Nikki Smith (24:37):
just smiling at somebody could be what they
needed that day. You know,
Vanessa (24:42):
I know I've been there.
And I'm sure you have and I'msure a lot of the listeners and
viewers have to so it's it'shard, especially if you're
having a rough day yourself too.
But it's also a good way to turnyour own day around by just kind
of resetting yourself a littlebit. it. Yeah. Have you worked
(25:03):
with many cases with familieswhere there's a suicide to help
them through that? Or?
Nikki Smith (25:09):
I have not.
However, I for three, fouryears, I was a volunteer at the
suicide hotline. Yeah. And I doI also do grief coaching. And
no, I don't think any of myclients lost anybody to suicide.
But I've helped in supportgroups for that before. So I
(25:29):
have at least spoken withpeople. But I haven't directly
had a client. But yeah, Ivolunteered at the suicide
hotline for a long time. So Ilearned a whole lot about
suicide loss while I was there.
That's
Vanessa (25:43):
amazing.
Unknown (25:44):
That's hard. Yeah, I
Vanessa (25:46):
can imagine I've, I've utilized that myself. These
couple of years ago, I did thatI texted them. And it's helps
Yeah, the amount of empathy thatyou have to have to do something
like that. Had to be hard intraining. But then rewarding is
Nikki Smith (26:10):
there is compassion, fatigue is totally a
thing. And mine kicked in about40 minutes. If a call went on
longer than 40 minutes, it wasreally, really hard for me to
hold that compassion. And thatsounds terrible. But I'm a human
being to like anybody, anybodywould tell you the same thing.
And honestly, the calls thatthat were, we really genuinely
(26:31):
help somebody that called injust like, you know, where they
were really, you know, on themetaphorical ledge, so to speak,
and just need somebody to talkthem down for a second, those
calls would be relatively short,and they felt great. You could
tell like, okay, they're,they're okay, they're safe.
They're gonna go to theirfriend's house, whatever. It was
all the other calls, we got thepeople that just would talk your
(26:52):
ear off for 45 minutes aboutnothing. The prank calls the
poor, like, we would get theperv calls to like, who? Who,
what? We would
Vanessa (27:02):
consider that.
Nikki Smith (27:03):
Yeah, you hear people whacking off and it's
like, Dude, you call the suicidehotline to whack off? real
classy.
Vanessa (27:12):
I never even thought of that employee has to.
Nikki Smith (27:16):
Oh, yeah, people there. Okay, I did. I do have
one quick story about that. So Iwas I was, I worked midnight to
6am. Friday into Saturday. So Iwas busy on those nights. And I
had somebody call in that. Itsounded like a teenage girl who
said, my friends here, she'sgonna kill herself. I said,
okay, and I went through thewhole process and like, what's
going on? Is there a weapon inthe room? Does she you know,
(27:38):
whatever. And they hung up, andI was like, shit. So you know,
when they hang up. If you gettheir number, you can try to
call it back. nobody's answeringthe call back again. And then
they said something else aboutlike, she's gonna cut and then I
heard giggling and I'm like, Oh,this is a prank call. But you
can't assume that right off thebat. So I was going through the
motions. And I was like, youknow, is everything okay? What
(27:59):
tell me about what's going onWhat led you to this? And they
hung up again. And I was like, Iwas pissed at that point. I'm
like, No, this is a prank call.
I kid you not. 10 minutes later,they called back and they
apologized to me. Really? Yeah,they were like they got they
were like, We got off the phoneand we couldn't believe how
sweet and like, caring you werelike, You really gave a shit.
I'm like, Yeah, I thought youwere gonna hurt yourself. Yes,
(28:23):
I'm here. That's what we do. Andthey were just so blown away by
the fact that I was I caredenough to help talk them out of
it. That they wanted toapologize to me. I'm like, Don't
do that again. Like, thank youfor apologizing. Don't fucking
do that again. Okay.
Vanessa (28:43):
Hoping a lesson was learned there. Yeah, that's a
yes.
Nikki Smith (28:48):
I mean, we're all idiots when we're teenagers. I'm
a prank, too. And I was anasshole when I was a teenager
too, but I have since learned,so.
Vanessa (28:56):
I don't I definitely did prank calls but I don't
really even as weird as I am. Idon't think I could have called
the suicide hotline course Ididn't know it existed. Yeah, it
did exist then. I don't know.
But I guess we should mentionedsuicide hotlines. 9886. Or
Nikki Smith (29:16):
call or text call or text either one. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (29:20):
And it helps it sometimes just as Nikki said,
sometimes you're gonna latch andyou can get talked down but shit
in April with my own attempt.
Like I was standing in thekitchen with a handful of pills
for like 45 minutes, juststaring at it. And Ultra
cautious that one hand movementand I miss talk myself down, but
(29:43):
it's not always possible. Yeah.
Don't be afraid. There's nostigma at all want
Nikki Smith (29:54):
to know and if you're calling that line, I
promise you the person that isanswering You're not bothering
them, you're not offending them.
And they do care. Because we hadlike, I went through a 10 week
training process, it was insane.
The amount of training had to gothrough for that. And they won't
let somebody do this. That'sgoing to be rude or doesn't
(30:17):
care. So that's the one thing Iheard so much of as I didn't
want to be a bother. It's like,Oh, my God, that's literally why
we're here. You're so don'tthink you're a bother. Don't
think you're irritating? Anybodydon't think you're offending
them just call for the love ofPete call?
Vanessa (30:36):
That's very important message there too, about being a
bother. Yeah, that's I know,that's a feeling that I've had,
and probably when you've hadwith ideation, and the entire
point of the service is to helpyou. And they are there. Yeah,
they're there to answer thephone or answer texts to talk to
(30:59):
you, and you're not botheringthem. So did you have to take
like mandatory like breaks andstuff like that to like for a
few days to?
Nikki Smith (31:08):
I'm trying to remember because it's been a
minute. We were we only everworked one shift a week. You
could sign up for more, but Idon't know if they ever like
kept you? Or said you couldn'tdo more. I'm honestly not sure.
And who knows, each center mightbe different. But where I was we
(31:29):
were only manded. not mandated.
But we were required to work.
One shift a week. And that wasit. And each shift was three to
six hours. So you could workthree hours a week. That's fine.
Vanessa (31:40):
That's a lot too. Oh, yeah. That's not a job that I
think anybody could or should bedoing full time. So oh, God, I
would absolutely destroy your
Nikki Smith (31:50):
Yeah, I couldn't imagine like six. When we when
you first come out of trainingmate, we had to do six hours a
week. And for at least thisfirst six months, just to make
sure you really wanted to do it.
And you know, plus, they reallythey were always short
volunteers. We needed help sobad. And six hours a week was
plenty more than enough.
Vanessa (32:14):
Can imagine. Yeah. You said it's a volunteer position.
Yeah. Pay for that. So thatmeans that if people aren't
getting paid for it, it meansthat they actually want to be
there. Yeah. Because otherwisethey wouldn't be there. Yeah.
That's what does it take to getinvolved to volunteer for that?
(32:40):
Are there like, rules andregulations? I imagine that Oh,
Nikki Smith (32:44):
yeah. Oh, yeah, there's, there's background
checks. Gosh, this was like2016, I think when I started
volunteering there, but I knew Ihad to go through a background
check. I had to do two separateinterviews. And then once I was
accepted, I had to go throughlike I said, it may have been
eight weeks was a very rigoroustraining program. And it was it
(33:05):
was just one night a week, butit was like three hours, each
every week for that whole time.
And it was a lot of justlearning about different types
of mental illness crisis, deescalation, policies and
procedures. And every senatormight be different. I trained
here in Columbus, for the localhotline, but we also answered
calls from the national hotlineto this was prior to 988. But
(33:27):
there was the, like, 888273 talkor helper, I forget, it's been
so long. If you ever call thatnumber, it would route you to
the local center to the areacode you are calling from, which
is great in the beginning, butwhen with cell phones, you know,
(33:47):
it doesn't mean anything doesn'tmean much. So we get calls from
people in Texas, they justhappen to have a 614 area code.
But they try to get you to alocal center because we have
resources for like localhospitals, local places, you can
go to if you need.
Vanessa (34:08):
Yeah. Which makes sense. And plus when you're
talking to someone local, theythey also know the unique
pressures of that particulararea. Exactly.
Nikki Smith (34:16):
I can't really identify with somebody in
Phoenix who might be dealingwith depression from the
heatwave or California at theSanta Ana winds I hear that
drives people to suicide a lot.
So yeah, yeah, I read it. I dida an essay or not an essay, a
thesis in college on suicideawareness. And I was reading up
(34:36):
on different factors of suicideand there was a whole, like,
tons of articles I found onpeople going a little crazy
during the Santa Ana winds. AndI know it's interesting. And
yeah, weather can do a lot man.
It can really play like peoplewho live in areas that don't get
(34:59):
a lot of sudden they get moredepressed. Yeah, right. I
Northeast
Vanessa (35:04):
Ohio. Yeah. Which a lot of people don't realize like
everyone thinks like Seattle
Unknown (35:09):
when it comes to Seattle gets more.
Vanessa (35:12):
Yeah like Seattle in Northeast Ohio like we bounced
back and forth for being thegloomiest. Yeah. And that's why
there's a giant military base inRavenna because there's so much
cloud cover. But good is we gotsome deep stuff here. Is there
anything else that you wanted totell Yammer about while you're
(35:32):
here?
Nikki Smith (35:33):
So the only other hill I have to die on is telling
people to fill out theiradvanced directive paperwork?
Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Please, ifyou do nothing else, fill out a
living will. And your livingwill is the it's that's your
Advanced Directive. That is theif I'm in a permanent vegetative
state, no hope of cure or wakingup. What? Do I want to be
(35:58):
artificially kept alive? Or do Iwant you to let me go fill that
out? Because if they don't know,they don't know. And they might
keep you alive artificially foryears. And oh, my God, that's
awful for you. That's awful foryour family, and very expensive.
Yeah, it's just there's verylittle and yeah, there are
stories of people that are incomas for 20 years, and they
(36:19):
wake up, but they're neverreally the same. You know, when
your time skips there, too?
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if nothingelse, fill out a living well,
for the love of God.
Vanessa (36:32):
Yeah, I actually, I have one that I did through
Legal Zoom. And there you goback and like fully updated 50
bucks or something like that.
There's not too much.
Nikki Smith (36:42):
You can you can use free services. Yeah, you can do
them for free. Like in Ohio. I,I don't I can give you the link,
if you want to put it in your,in your show notes. There's a
link through I think is throughOhioHealth. But they have all of
the documents they Living Willfinal or not final a Living Will
Power of Attorney, financial andmedical guardianship, DNR, all
(37:06):
of that in one packet. And ithas questions like FAQs on which
ones you need, and when. And allyou have to do is fill them out
and have them notarized. That'sit, then they're legally
binding. That said, if they'resitting in a drawer somewhere
that that's not going to helpyou. So make sure somebody has
copies of them. That
Vanessa (37:25):
was going to be my next question. In the queer
community, there's a fair numberof us that don't really have
many people we're close to. Andit can be kind of a lonely
existence. What would yousuggest people do with those
(37:47):
documents to make themaccessible for people?
Nikki Smith (37:49):
So first, before that, as far as like medical
power of attorney is differentthan a living well, that's where
you have somebody you wouldappoint to make decisions on
your behalf if you're not ableto. So that's not necessarily
you're in a coma forever, you'renot gonna wake up, this might
just be you're in surgery,something happened, whatever,
there's some reason you can'tmake medical decisions, they can
(38:11):
do that for you. Pick somebodyyou trust, if they if you don't
have one of those. And this isso important for people in the
queer community who might beestranged from their family,
they will go to next of kin. Andif you don't trust your next of
kin, or they don't align withyour beliefs, they won't make
the decisions you might want. Somake sure you have picked
somebody you trust. And this canbe a friend, it can be a
(38:32):
neighbor, just make sure they'reokay with it too, because they
have to sign the document aswell. But once you have those
forms, I know in Ohio, if youhave an online my chart portal,
which I like, I think everystate has their own version of a
my charts through epic. Youshould there's a place you can
upload it. So your doctor'soffice should do that. Yes, I
(38:56):
have it. It's really goodadvice. I have my chart for OSU
and Ohio Health and Central Ohioprimary care and I've uploaded
it to all three places. You cangive a copy to your doctor
physically, like take a copy andgive it to your doctor next time
you go and say put this in myfile. So they'll have that as
well. That's
Vanessa (39:16):
good advice.
Definitely. Good advice. Andwhile you're talking an idea
popped in my head of even justhaving a little coalition of
local local people, local queerpeople local, just whatever. And
sounds fucked up. But have ahave a well, buddy, essentially,
(39:39):
yeah.
Nikki Smith (39:42):
Fucked up at all.
Not No, I think that's awonderful idea. As long as as
long as you trust that person,you know, they'll make the
decisions you want, then yeah,there's nothing I wish I tell
people. I have a workbook on mywebsite for people who might not
have family left or who areestranged from their family. How
do I plan for by end of life,and I encourage you to dig deep
like maybe if you're a part ofan organization, is there
(40:05):
somebody within that organ itdoesn't have to be a church or
you know, maybe if it's areligious organization, that's a
great place to look. But a localchapter of, you know, like in
Columbus, we have StonewallColumbus, and there's a great
organizations there that helppeople in the queer community,
there might be somebody therethat's willing to do that. put
an ad on Craigslist, don't putit out on Craigslist. I'm
(40:28):
kidding. Don't do that.
Unknown (40:30):
Don't do this.
Nikki Smith (40:31):
Don't do that.
Yeah, just you know, if, ifthere's really genuinely nobody
in your life, will find somebodyfor you ask, you know, ask
around. There is a Facebookgroup that I'm part of called
stand with pride in the Midwest.
And I know they stand with prideand other areas of the country
(40:54):
to where people can reach out tolook for, you know, surrogate
family members, like I'm gettingmarried, and I want somebody to
walk me down the aisle, who willbe my my dad, and people will
volunteer, I will walk you downthe aisle. They'll ask people to
show up at their graduation.
It's like, yeah, so there arepeople out there that will do
that for you.
Vanessa (41:13):
And that kind of stuff really, you know, helps give
faith in humanity. Especiallylike, with us being just,
especially lately just beenbombarded by so much bad news,
in fact that politics on, youknow, the for profit news cycle
and everything. So it's nice tohear the stories of people like
that to show, you know, overall,humans aren't that terrible.
(41:37):
Yeah, as much as I like to sayhumans.
Nikki Smith (41:39):
And if I find myself on Facebook, getting real
pissed off, I scroll over to mygroups, and I go find stand with
pride and Midwest and I justread through posts and comments,
and I feel good again. There arepeople out there that give a
shit.
Vanessa (41:54):
There are and remember, if you're starting to get into
like an argument or someone onFacebook or social media, just
Nikki Smith (42:02):
don't. Don't just there's no point.
Vanessa (42:05):
Yeah, there's no point there's there's no winning. And
if, like I don't respond whenpeople post critical stuff on
things I post sometimes I'lljust delete the post. Because I
did that the other day with theRichard Simmons died the same
day that that Trump got shot.
Yeah, no. And so I'm like, inwhat universe is something along
(42:29):
the lines of what universe isfair that, you know, Richard was
taken from us, but the orangemenace just got his ear clipped.
And yeah, bunch of localrealtors that never interact
with me at all. jumped on, like,that's tacky. That's a horrible
thing to say this. And yet I'mlike, this fucker goes in front
of people, and talks about howhe would say, eradicate people
(42:52):
like me, you know? So
Nikki Smith (42:55):
what's tacky is they didn't have the same
response to children being shotin school.
Vanessa (42:59):
Exactly, exactly. Over and over again. So I'm just
like, You know what, I don'teven want this. And as, frankly,
as a business decision, Ideleted it, but don't engage is
what I'm trying to say. It alsotakes away people's power that
they think that they might haveis known as power on the
internet. You know, once you'rein person. We're all just people
(43:24):
just trying to.
Nikki Smith (43:26):
We're all fumbling around here on this blue marble.
Exactly.
Vanessa (43:32):
So I've missed this in the past couple episodes,
because, one, I don't know why Iforgot to do it with Sarah last
week, probably just because I'mflaky and the week before that
ran long with Chloe. So weweren't able to do it. But I'm
gonna bring back courageagainst. So this is the old
(43:54):
school Cards Against Humanity,like the original deck, kind
essentially. So there's nomodifications to this at all.
I'm just kind of going throughand just loosely shuffling and
the rule to this game. Nicki'sexcited. She's, like bouncing up
(44:15):
and down like the rules are. Youpick a card, and we have to come
up with something to respond toit. So it's only black cards,
not the white cards. Butbecause, to me, it usually isn't
a two person game, right? Iremember. I don't know if you
(44:38):
still do it or not. But thereused to be like an eyeline like
techspace version that you playwith like, I played with my
Warcraft friends. Oh, holy shit.
The girls that we were playingwith were fucking raunchy. It
was amazing. It was the bestthing ever. So anyways, so
Nikki? Yeah, Okay, I'm
Nikki Smith (45:00):
ready. Here's a deck.
Vanessa (45:02):
Tell me like approximately where in the deck
you want to pull the cart fromright there. Right? Here are in
like this. Yeah, right there.
Unknown (45:10):
That's fine. Here.
Yeah. Okay.
Vanessa (45:14):
So, this is gonna be your card. Okay. and I are going
to one at random. So the suspectcode. Okay, so are you ready for
your, your, your your stuff?
Nikki Smith (45:35):
I'm writing things already.
Vanessa (45:38):
Okay. I was gonna focus on this, the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang, but with
Nikki Smith (45:52):
Okay, so we were all on SNAP with a bang but with
glitter with glitter. That's
Vanessa (46:00):
a good luck enhancer.
Can you imagine? I mean, enoughglitter would just destroy the
world. I mean, people use themas glitter. Have you seen this
glitter bomb pranks? Yeah, thoseare amazing. So Good answer.
Good answer.
Nikki Smith (46:15):
You could say you better candidate too, but I like
glitter. Glitter
Vanessa (46:18):
is better.
Nikki Smith (46:22):
Craft Supplies it's true. That never goes away.
Vanessa (46:31):
If this episode weren't about death and stuff, I will
tell you. It's the hurt piece ofcraft supplies. Yeah, because
that's a quote. That's a that'sdefinitely a quote. I'm hoping a
little clip generator fromRiverside.
Nikki Smith (46:48):
For that because that one Exactly. Is crossed.
Fingers crossed.
Vanessa (46:51):
You never know what it's gonna do. Okay, so mine
blank. Hit tested. Motherapproved. Okay.
I mean, there's so many thingsand it's just how raunchy to do
(47:12):
we call yours was fairly yoursis fairly clean. But as a
lesbian, I'm just gonna saytoday's mother approved because
I like it. My mom and I do lovesome titties both my both my own
and those of other people.
Nikki Smith (47:30):
That's because Teddy's are fantastic. titties.
Vanessa (47:32):
Everybody loves titties. Everybody loves
studies. Everybody
Nikki Smith (47:36):
loves titties. Oh, yeah.
Vanessa (47:39):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, not not everybody loves to these on
themselves. Like I'm looking at,like trans mask individuals and
stuff. Sure, but the trans masspeople I've talked to still love
Teddy. It's just somebody else.
100% Yeah, I'm so happy thatI've grown my own there. It's
just, you know, just lookingmyself in the mirror just laying
(48:01):
there. I'm like, Oops. Oops.
Yeah, too. These are the best.
Yeah. Do you have any closingthoughts? Anything? That Yeah.
Any anything else that you wantto get out there? To my 90
listeners?
Nikki Smith (48:21):
It's okay to not be okay. But it's also okay to be
okay. Like that's the lesson welearned from when you were on my
episode. As far as death lossand grief, whatever you're gonna
feel is okay, valid and normal.
So don't there's so many peoplethink they're grieving wrong.
You're not how are you doing? Itis exactly right. Just don't
hurt anybody else in theprocess. Whatever you're gonna
(48:43):
feel as I always had my episode,every episode with your grief is
yours. Your feelings are valid.
And grief doesn't always have tosuck. So take with that.
Vanessa (48:54):
That's an amazing, amazing advice. And as alone as
anyone feels in their grief, Iguarantee you somebody else is
the only one that feels thatway. Somebody else has
Nikki Smith (49:05):
felt it thought it said you're never really truly
alone. And you're it's isolate.
Grief is isolating, but you'renever isolating.
Vanessa (49:12):
But if you can find if you can find the strength within
you to talk to somebody and youdon't have to either there's
there's there's no shame in nottalking to somebody, but if you
can, you might find somecommonalities. Like I just
noticed when I was on yourpodcast, just kind of unloading
about my dad, especially thefirst time that we talked before
(49:32):
that, like, it's nice to get allthat out there. Like not a lot
of people knew those thingsabout me beyond like my
therapist and my sons or theirmother. So it's just getting it
out there getting it off yourchest, putting words to it can
help a
Nikki Smith (49:49):
lot, so much. So, yes,
Vanessa (49:53):
it was a pleasure having you on the show. This was
fun. And it was and thank you Tome, thank you for having me. I'm
yours. Yeah. And I kind of givepeople a preview of this because
I ran your ad on last week's. Iran it another time too, but so,
(50:13):
but definitely people go checkout Good grief. Thank you, Nick.
He's a wonderful person and I'mhonored to get to know her and
she's not too far from meeither. So we're gonna have to
we're gonna have to get acoffee. Yes, yeah. I need a trip
to Columbus. So possibly becauseyou either too, they're always
trying to get me to come down.
So yeah,
Nikki Smith (50:35):
if you ever doubt, let me know.
Vanessa (50:38):
I shall, next week and transcending humanity. Let's
see, who do we have? Next weekis Samantha Tiana or tanto. I'm
not quite sure how to pronounceher last name. And the return of
Erica vocal. Samantha is apublished author recently has a
book that just came out. AndErica is a frequent co host on
(51:01):
the show. She has her own bookcoming out. So I'm probably just
gonna sit in the background ofthat episode and let those two
approaches him around aboutwriting and stuff. And hopefully
learn some lessons myselfbecause I want to start my own
my own book. And yeah, and theweek after that, I have someone
lined up hope it works out. He'sa YouTuber, so be fine. Thanks
(51:30):
again for joining us. Nikki.
Thank you again, I know I saidthis already, but you know, and
we will see you next time ontranscending humanity. Laws.
There it is.
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