April 6, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode of the Vegan Food Truck Business Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Ariel Smith, known as "The Food Truck Scholar" and a university professor teaching entrepreneurship. Dr. Smith shares invaluable insights on running a successful food truck business, from menu pricing strategies to cash management and operations scaling.
Episode Highlights:
- Understanding business model adaptation and flexibility
- Strategic approaches to hiring and managing staff
- Tips for effective menu pricing and food cost management
- Best practices for cash handling and payment processing
- The importance of due diligence in business decision-making
Resources Mentioned:
- Book: Before You Launch a Food Truck by Dr. Ariel Smith
- Business Model Canvas for food truck planning
- The Food Truck Scholar Podcast
Connect with Dr. Ariel Smith:
- Instagram: @FoodTruckScholar and @DrArielDSmith
- LinkedIn: Ariel D Smith, PhD
Follow Savvy Frugal Vegan:
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Check out the website for upcoming workshops, events, coaching, and more
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Heather (2) (00:01):
Hey, this is Heather Zeitzwolfe and you are
listening to the Vegan FoodTruck Business podcast.
today's guest is Ariel Smith.
She is known as the Food TruckScholar.
I met her years ago at a podcastconvention, and I've been
following her ever since, andwhen I started this podcast, she
was one of the very first peopleI contacted to be on the show.
(00:22):
It took a little while, but hereis my interview with Ariel.
Heather (00:26):
All right.
Ariel Smith, the Food TruckScholar.
Oh my God.
are you the only food truckscholar in the United States or
is there somebody else.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (00:38):
there are people who research mobile
food vending, but to myknowledge, I'm the only person
that specifically worked onblack food truck owners,
Heather (00:46):
oh, there we go.
Ariel, you've had a podcast Youhave a PhD, what did you have to
do to become a food truckscholar?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (00:54):
my PhD is in American studies from
Purdue University.
I started my program in 2017,graduated in 2022, before,
during, and after Covid era.
I came to Purdue to studysomething entirely different.
Heather (01:07):
Really?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (01:08):
I came to study, like higher
education and specifically I wascurious about the ways in which
African Americans, getentrepreneurship education.
Because a a lot of times thebusiness case studies, that you
get from Harvard or anywhereelse, they don't include us.
they're not using case studiesof black-owned businesses.
That's something they're juststarting to do within the Covid
era.
(01:28):
Where do we learn to becomeentrepreneurs?
'cause always the gold standardis, zuckerberg or Gates or Musk
or all these other people, butthey don't look like me.
where are other people who looklike me learning to become
entrepreneurs?
That's what I was studying thenone day I was on Instagram and I
saw a new food truck at the timelaunching in Birmingham and I
(01:48):
said, now wait a minute.
I'm from Birmingham, Alabama,After I left, I felt real
disrespected.
Real, real disrespected.
20 16, 20 17, 20 18 were somegolden years for Birmingham in
terms of more and more foodtrucks are cranking out.
Meanwhile, I'm in WestLafayette, Indiana and we
couldn't find one black ownedrestaurant there.
The area is like less than 3%black.
(02:10):
it was a culture shock from whatI had experienced.
I just started trying tounderstand why are we having
more and more food trucks inBirmingham?
when I was doing a literarysearch, there was research about
immigrant food trucks.
research about Mexican Americanfood trucks.
research even about whiteAmerican food trucks.
There was nothing about blackAmericans in the food truck
industry.
(02:31):
it just so happened thatfollowing week I needed to write
my seminar paper.
my professor had checked in onus because we were all first
year PhD students and said,how's those seminar papers
coming?
And there was all blank faces.
he said, I get it.
It's your first, course in thePhD program, it's your first
paper.
You think whatever you write hasto be your dissertation.
It doesn't just write me a 10page paper about a question
(02:54):
that's on your mind right now.
And the question on my mind iswhat's happening with the black
food trucks in Birmingham?
I was like I know Birmingham'sgentrifying.
Does it have anything to do withthat?
I'm trying to figure it out.
And I got an A on the paper andI said, let me find out I can
eat my way to a PhD.
Because they started being realserious.
He was like, have you thoughtabout this?
Have you thought about that?
I was like, okay, these peopleare interested.
(03:15):
Like I just knew they was gonnashoot down this idea.
But actually they embraced itand got me to think more
critically about it.
And they got me to question,well, why do food trucks matter
at all?
And specifically, why do blackfood trucks matter?
What is the criticality of themto our ecosystem, to black
communities and to society atlarge?
And so that became my entiredissertation.
Heather (03:36):
Very cool.
And your doctorate you got toeat all these different foods.
Did you go into food trucks?
Were you talking to food truckowners?
how did you get your data forthis?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (03:46):
I did everything but own a food
truck, I started interviewingfood truck owners, and that's
how the Food Truck Scholar cameto be I wanted my work not to
just sit in the academy.
At best, maybe four people aregoing to read my dissertation.
What does that actually do forthe overall people?
I wanted to create somethingthat.
All the people that I'vecollected all this data from,
(04:08):
they could see it.
They could be like, okay.
She heard me and their messagegot out I started interviewing
food truck owners.
trying to find ways to give backso it wasn't always extraction.
I would go to.
Festivals, whether they were bigor small.
I went to the world largest foodtruck rally that had over 200
food trucks represented.
I spent three days walkingthrough it passing out little
(04:29):
cards, introducing myself,asking can I take photo of the
truck and giving them to themfor free to post social media.
I ended up hopping onto foodtrucks as they had lines wrapped
around.
I'm watching what is happeningand I could see when the food
trucks were cranking the foodout and when they were slow and
start asking them, so what'sgoing on and why is it like this
and why is it like that?
(04:49):
I started talking to food truckmanufacturers, I wanted to know,
who makes the food trucks?
I talked to everybody who sellsthe chassis.
I know the people who do custombuilds.
Who own food truck parks andwhat are the logistics around
that?
people that do commercial tires.
I talked to Goodyear tounderstand what does commercial
tires look like?
talked to different spacesbecause I I'm not a food truck
(05:12):
owner, and there are someexperiences I would never have
because I'm not a food truckowner.
But one thing about research, ifyou're doing it, with intention
and with care, you find yourways to immerse yourself as much
as possible.
Heather (05:25):
you've got some insider connections there.
sounds like you were able toaccess everything, have you seen
any major shift in food truckscarts, popups, that sort of
thing.
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (05:37):
I'm seeing a lot of people get out
of the food truck industry.
Heather (05:39):
And why is that, do you think?
Is that because of the economy?
what are you seeing
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (05:43):
it's a mixture of things.
some of the very first people Iinterviewed, went back to being,
restaurant chefs.
Some of them were classicallytrained chefs.
They started the food truck.
They rocked with the food truckfor a while, and then they
decide, This is way too muchwear and tear on my body I miss
having time with my family.
I miss having more set hours.
(06:03):
With other people, it was liketheir dream to have a
restaurant.
So now they've worked andthey've gotten that restaurant.
For some people it is just beendealing with ordinances in their
cities.
'cause not all cities fullyunderstand.
how to support the mobile foodindustry.
my hometown of Birmingham in2013, they had passed bills,
this mobile vending.
They treated it like ice creamtrucks because they really
(06:25):
didn't understand it.
And Philadelphia in 2020 whenthe pandemic hit there were so
many different food trucks thatif they didn't have a brick and
mortar, they closed because ofthe permitting.
It was really terrible.
there's a multitude of differentreasons why.
For some it's wear and tear.
For other people, it's no longerprofitable for them.
then others, it's like a step.
Heather (06:46):
it can be a great stepping stone.
It could also be an offshoot youhit on the thing about the
permits how cities treat, foodtruck owners.
it's quite difficult.
certain cities are definitelymore friendly when it comes to
this and others make it almostimpossible.
And I think a lot of it is old,things on the books that haven't
come up with the times as far asfood trucks go.
(07:09):
what are some the cities thatyou see are more food truck
friendly versus other cities?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (07:15):
this question is interesting because
what's food truck friendly interms of, you see a lot of food
trucks versus what's food truckfriendly in terms of policy?
there've been some policychanges since I last looked at
them.
as opposed to 2018, there wasthis Food Trade Nation report
put out, by the federalgovernment in conjunction with a
nonprofit entity.
(07:35):
They researched 20 differentcities and saw places like
Portland, la, Miami, some of theplaces you would expect to be
listed being friendly with foodtrucks.
the question then becomes, wesee this back and forth I
remember during the pandemic,the state of Florida had passed
something that said, no matterwhere you are in the state, if
you have a food truck permit,it's gonna be honored across the
(07:57):
state.
by the time individual countiesgot a hold of that, GONE right.
Birmingham is a food truck city.
However, there's still a lot ofwork that needs to be done to
help the process of starting afood truck, getting all your
proper permits and licensing inplace so that you're fully
compliant, that space is stillmurky.
LA historically is known forhaving the strictest, street
(08:21):
vending laws.
We can go all the way back to1921 on that, but still very
much a food truck friendlyspace.
I feel like it's always adifficult question to answer.
Because people see an area andsay, oh, it's so food truck
friendly.
cause there's many of them, butwe don't know how many hurdles
they had to jump to get throughthat.
And we don't know what loopholesthey may have found.
(08:43):
For example, You may wannaoperate in Forsyth County, but
Forsyth County is incrediblydifficult.
maybe you're in the county nextdoor in Davidson County because
they're a little bit morelenient.
when you get ready to come up toForsyth, to go to a Wake Forest
or something you do a day passor temporary permit because
that's easier you just have todig a little bit deeper to
understand what's reallyhappening in each of these
(09:05):
places.
I would always advise to talk tothe people that are local
Because if I give answer now, Idon't know what policy changes
they may have made recently.
Heather (09:13):
I just interviewed a woman who's lives in a city
where they don't really havefood trucks.
she was, able to shape.
The policies they're making inthat city for food trucks.
have you seen people being ableto impact, the policy making?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (09:26):
Oh, yeah.
I actually interview the mayorof Duney, Virginia, who was a
food truck owner.
of course he couldn't vote onthe bill, but he was
instrumental in bringing itforward.
I think about situations likethat.
like in Peoria, Illinois, thevery first food truck I ever
interviewed on YouTube.
They were advocating for foodtruck legislation in Peoria.
(09:47):
I've been fortunate to talk topeople who have those stories.
they're trying to keep the dooropen, not just for themselves,
but for others.
food truck advocacy can also bea murky space
Heather (09:57):
these are all things that people have to consider
when they're dreaming abouthaving a food truck.
People, see'em in movies orvisit cities and there's food
trucks everywhere, and they'renot thinking about parking
permits or, any other kind ofpermits they might have to have
and all the costs associatedwith it.
there's a lot of moving parts,with having a food truck.
they need to do their homeworkin the city or wherever they are
(10:19):
going to be located and makesure that, is it worth the
headache?
Like, Do they really wanna dothis?
As a CPA I see people startingbusinesses and they invest in
things they don't need to investin right away Are there things
you see people making thatmistake of jumping in too
quickly and spending money onthings that they don't need to?
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (10:36):
Yeah, first of all, do you need the
food truck?
I know of some places that theyimmediately think that, oh, I
have to have the food truck tostart.
I've talked to quite a number ofpeople that actually got started
at Farmer's Market.
They had, tents and tables andthat's how they started testing
if they had a product that wasin demand we call that proof of
market, right?
Yeah, you really wanna know doyou have a following for this?
(10:56):
Let's do it at the farmer'smarket where the fee, the
barriers to entry, are low,Whereas if you're rushing to get
into a truck you're probablyfinancing it, now you gotta pay
for the note.
Now you gotta pay for the gas,generator.
propane.
Now you gotta worry about tires.
Anything that can go wrong onyour car personally, if you're
driving a food truck, that canalso happen.
(11:18):
Maybe not as bad if you have atrailer and you can haul it.
But wouldn't it be a little bitless stressful if you can test
the market where there's lowercost?
There's not a whole lot ofpressure on you to make a
certain amount of money, thenyou can go into the truck.
Do you need to immediately startout with a truck, even though
that's your goal,
Heather (11:36):
It could be a reality check when people have dreams
about starting a business,they're not thinking in, real
terms of all the work associatedwith it.
a farmer's market, you gottastand there all day, but a food
truck, you're in a hot truck forhours you've gotta prep, you
gotta park, there's more hoursinvolved.
Ariel - Food Truck S (11:53):
underscore hot because I've been on a food
truck that was 140 degrees,
Heather (11:57):
my God.
Ariel - Food Truck Schol (11:58):
People never realize how hot it can
get.
And that's mild for some statesif you're in a place like Texas
or the deep south during thesummer you're sweating, getting
dehydrated very quickly.
that's why they say, be carefulabout painting your food truck
black, because that's making iteven hotter during summer
months.
I know food truck owners thathave had to do IV injections
(12:20):
just to make sure they don'tpass out.
it can be very serious there'sso many things that you don't
think about with the food truck.
you wouldn't know if you didn'thave someone to tell you.
So whether they're listening tothe Food Trust Scholar podcast,
whether they're listening toyour podcast, Heather, or
they're talking to some peoplein their area and saying, Hey,
can I volunteer for you for acertain amount of time?
(12:43):
And just learn to see, okay,wow, didn't see that coming.
Didn't know if I don't havediamond, plated flooring, I'm
gonna slip and fall in my truckNo one would know unless you
spent time on a food truck oraround people who have.
you could be losing moneybecause no one told you.
Heather (13:00):
I didn't know about that flooring.
Okay.
everybody loves marketing.
That's the sexiest part ofstarting a business.
wrapping a food truck can bevery costly but it can look
great.
are there some recommendationsthat you have to keep some of
these early marketing costsdown, and make you stand out in
the community?
I
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (13:20):
know people love the wrap, I'm not
going to come heavy on that.
The biggest question I'm goingto say is the branding
consistent?
Because sometimes it's not,
Heather (13:31):
describe what you mean.
Is that like social media, themenu, the truck,
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (13:35):
They need to match.
it doesn't need too much goingon.
If you're noticing thateverybody in your city tends to
gravitate towards red, black,and white, maybe you be the food
truck that is a different color.
I've noticed that in certaincities.
in terms of your logos, makingthem very clean and easy to
read.
I've even seen people avoidwrapping altogether and had a
(13:57):
graffiti artist do their truckand that was different.
Heather (14:00):
Ooh, that sounds actually really cool.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (14:02):
Yeah.
So food truck owner Iinterviewed, actually she has a
food bus, chef, TLC inIndianapolis, Indiana.
she got a old school bus.
they have less miles.
she got a graffiti artist out ofNew York come down and do her
bus.
Heather (14:16):
Oh my God, that sounds very cool.
here in Portland, we have adouble decker bus, like one of
those British style ones, and itjust sits permanently.
it's a coffee shop that is verybusy You have to wait at the
door to get in just like youwould on a bus.
They built an experience aroundit.
all these things, planning itout.
I talked to someone recently shespent a lot of time on her
business plan because she waslooking for a grant building a
(14:39):
business plan is something thatnot everybody wants to do.
They don't necessarily have todo.
But it's good to go through thesteps and think about
strategically all these things.
What is your target market?
What is the competition doing?
How much money do you need?
What is your financialprojections think through all
the different elements of thebusiness.
if you are gonna be the one, inthe truck all the time, can you
(14:59):
somehow scale this in the futureto have somebody else
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (15:03):
the business plan that's for
funders, for your loans, yourinvestors But planning the
trajection of your food truck Iencourage a business model
canvas'cause it's a one page
Heather (15:14):
yeah.
I love that.
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (15:15):
a lot of people, because they put
so much time into that businessplan, even when their business
is starting to deviate from thatand go in a different direction,
which could be for the best.
They may not adapt to it becauseit's not what they wrote Whereas
if they do the business modelcanvas, it can actually help
them adapt, more quickly andeasily.
Heather (15:32):
I love that.
I've got, the books this is agreat way, to figure out your
business all in one model.
I'm glad that you said thatbecause I love this as well.
you could put on a whiteboardand use sticky notes it's just a
great way to, visually see whatyou want your business to be,
and you can always change it.
Where do you see that thresholdof when people are able to take
on new hires,
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (15:53):
That depends on the person.
how much money do you have tobring on another person?
people may not have it.
Sometimes it's a family member.
I've seen a lot of food trucks.
become a family venture whereeverybody is putting in to help
them take off.
if you don't have that, it maytake a little bit longer because
there's a blessing of havingfamily and friends helping you,
but then it could also go left.
(16:15):
that's a little bit of achallenge.
comes down to the money thatthey're making back.
that's gonna tie into, are youpricing your food appropriately?
Are you dealing with waste bothproduct and time because that's
costing you money.
sometimes you need spreadsheetsto forecast your inventory,
standardize measurements, getyour cost structure down, get
(16:35):
your pricing structure down,putting yourself in those spaces
where you can grow and scale tobring on someone and pay them
this hourly rate,
Heather (16:43):
what is an area that you've seen people make mistakes
when it comes to their menu andpricing?
food costs keep going up,changing your menu, pricing.
how often should they be doingthat?
Ariel - Food Tru (16:53):
Unfortunately, right now you probably have to
do that way more regularly thanwe ever had to.
Because with the current lay ofthe land, we don't know how
terifs or any of that stuff isgonna impact, cost.
And availability.
Heather (17:05):
What are some of the things that you've seen that has
worked for people to keep them,profitable
Ariel - Food Truck Sch (17:09):
people's menus may change if they can't
get certain ingredients anymore.
with my book, I actually talkabout some of the things to
think about with your menucreation.
It's available on Amazon thatfunctions like a workbook.
Heather (17:22):
Say the name of it
Ariel - Food Truck Schol (17:22):
Before you launch a food truck.
There you go.
Heather (17:25):
do you have recommendations of tools they
could use?
There's spreadsheets, there'ssoftware, to figure out your
pricing for your menu
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (17:32):
you can use chat GPT.
There's worksheets forrestaurateurs and different
restaurant books and hospitalityclasses can also help I talk to
friends who are trained chefsand they now teach.
so a lot of those textbooks, allthat stuff, it helps.
Because let's say that you get,some vegetables, And you know
they cost a certain amount perpound.
Some of them spoil before youget to them, Or not The right
(17:53):
size that's per yield.
Mm-hmm.
Because you're gonna expect towaste some.
what you actually paid for perpound, that's not the price per
yield It was a certain amountper pound or per ounce, but by
the time you cook it down, youdon't really get that.
you have to account for that inyour cost and pricing.
A lot of people don't do that.
If you're not then you'reshortchanging yourself.
'cause every little thing thatis a part of your menu and not
(18:17):
for example, labor Paying them$25 an hour or$15 an hour,
that's not all of what it costsyou.
When you run payroll, there'staxes the price to run the
payroll.
Any insurance or benefits youpay them.
Heather (18:30):
Yeah, before we wrap up, if you had to name the five
biggest challenges food truckowners, have when they're in the
weeds.
What would you say those are
Ariel - Food Truck Sch (18:39):
funding.
Hiring and retaining anddeveloping employees,
Heather (18:44):
it's all about the compliance and labor.
Those are the two big thingsyou're talking about.
And making sure that you havemoney management,
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (18:51):
the bookkeeping is gonna be big and
even simple things such as howdo you handle cash?
I did a workshop with RegionsBank about, cash handling tips
and counterfeit money awareness.
Recognize counterfeit money, butalso you can be short in a
drawer or accidentally give thewrong change all because you
(19:11):
have poor cash handlingtechniques.
making sure that when you'recounting the cash, all of the
dollar bills are faced a certainway group everything by fives,
tens, whatever.
that's important as well.
And those are things you learnin retail or customer service.
But if you're working withsomeone that's never had that
experience and now they're on afood truck, they may need to
learn that.
Heather (19:31):
I've encountered people that don't know how to add or
give back change.
a lot of places, they only willtake credit card.
They don't wanna have any cashon hand, because of robberies
but cash you don't have to payall the fees associated with it.
cash is actually really good.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (19:46):
we're getting, incentivized at a lot
of restaurants that if you payin cash, you get this percent
off.
Heather (19:53):
We have that here too.
but to
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (19:54):
your point, because a lot of people
are cashless in digital, thereis the challenge with payment
processing systems and how muchfees they take out and all of
that stuff that can happen
Heather (20:04):
any last thoughts for someone who's either thinking
about it or they are in theweeds and they're like, what did
I get myself into?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (20:11):
Slow down and do research You can
listen to me, you can listen toHeather, but if you're in a rush
to do things and you're notdoing your due diligence, you
can be taken advantage of.
unfortunately, I've seen that inmore spaces than not.
There are some things peoplecharge thousands of dollars for
you could actually do yourselfif you took the time to read.
(20:32):
And we're in a space now where alot of people don't want read
for themselves.
They don't wanna said they wantsomeone to come in and tell them
exactly what to do, and I thinkthat has its place, but it
should not replace you as thebusiness owner doing your due
diligence to at least know, likewhen you're talking about taxes
and whatnot, Heather, I may notbe the best accounting person
(20:53):
out there, but you gotta knowthe basics around managerial
accounting to know if thebookkeeper is doing what they're
supposed to do or not.
The same thing is key with yourbusiness.
So please take the time, do thedue diligence, whether it is
researching the food truckmanufacturer, figuring out
reviews on it, do your duediligence at every step.
Really take the time to learn.
Heather (21:14):
Awesome.
I love that.
Ariel, you have a book.
You had a podcast, and you'reeducating, the future.
Tell us about what you're doingas a teacher.
Ariel - Food Truck Sc (21:21):
currently I am an assistant teaching
professor of entrepreneurship atWake Forest University.
I've been here in North Carolinasince fall of 2023.
I've been teaching classesaround entrepreneurial
marketing, so I chuckled whenyou asked me the marketing
questions.
Also taught a class I designedcalled Black Entrepreneurship in
America.
we look at the experiences ofblack entrepreneurs from
(21:42):
Colonial America to present day.
I'm teaching some new classesthis fall to really get students
thinking a more holisticperspective around
entrepreneurship.
And then as an entrepreneurmyself, I've done a lot of other
projects during and since theFood Truck Scholar now people
just come to me to say, Hey, canI pick your brain about
something?
And usually it is aconsultation.
(22:04):
They really want my thoughts ontheir business.
So I have something called ideatherapy that people can come in,
sit down in a very casualsetting, we can just brainstorm
together basically their thoughtpartner, through whatever
concept they want to do.
Heather (22:16):
is that through the university or something you
offer on the side?
Ariel - Food Truck Schol (22:21):
That's separate.
I'm getting ready to launch anew updated website on that
soon.
So I'm very excited about that.
Heather (22:26):
if people wanna follow you on the internet, where do
they find you?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (22:30):
You can find me, the Food Truck
scholar.
Instagram is still active.
I'm still there.
Dr.
Ariel d Smith is also anotherInstagram you can follow me on.
So both of those I can messageand reach out to you.
And I'm also very heavy onLinkedIn.
follow Ariel d Smith, PhD, youcan always engage with me there.
Heather (22:47):
Ariel, thank you so much for being on the show today
and giving us your knowledge.
you've really studied thisstuff.
You've got a doctorate in it, sohow cool is that?
thank you Ariel, and Iappreciate you so much.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (22:59):
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me on.
It feels good to be on the otherside of the mic.
Hey, this is Heather Zeitzwolfe and you are
listening to the Vegan FoodTruck Business podcast.
today's guest is Ariel Smith.
She is known as the Food TruckScholar.
I met her years ago at a podcastconvention, and I've been
following her ever since, andwhen I started this podcast, she
was one of the very first peopleI contacted to be on the show.
(00:22):
It took a little while, but hereis my interview with Ariel.
Heather (00:26):
All right.
Ariel Smith, the Food TruckScholar.
Oh my God.
are you the only food truckscholar in the United States or
is there somebody else.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (00:38):
there are people who research mobile
food vending, but to myknowledge, I'm the only person
that specifically worked onblack food truck owners,
Heather (00:46):
oh, there we go.
Ariel, you've had a podcast Youhave a PhD, what did you have to
do to become a food truckscholar?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (00:54):
my PhD is in American studies from
Purdue University.
I started my program in 2017,graduated in 2022, before,
during, and after Covid era.
I came to Purdue to studysomething entirely different.
Heather (01:07):
Really?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (01:08):
I came to study, like higher
education and specifically I wascurious about the ways in which
African Americans, getentrepreneurship education.
Because a a lot of times thebusiness case studies, that you
get from Harvard or anywhereelse, they don't include us.
they're not using case studiesof black-owned businesses.
That's something they're juststarting to do within the Covid
era.
(01:28):
Where do we learn to becomeentrepreneurs?
'cause always the gold standardis, zuckerberg or Gates or Musk
or all these other people, butthey don't look like me.
where are other people who looklike me learning to become
entrepreneurs?
That's what I was studying thenone day I was on Instagram and I
saw a new food truck at the timelaunching in Birmingham and I
(01:48):
said, now wait a minute.
I'm from Birmingham, Alabama,After I left, I felt real
disrespected.
Real, real disrespected.
20 16, 20 17, 20 18 were somegolden years for Birmingham in
terms of more and more foodtrucks are cranking out.
Meanwhile, I'm in WestLafayette, Indiana and we
couldn't find one black ownedrestaurant there.
The area is like less than 3%black.
(02:10):
it was a culture shock from whatI had experienced.
I just started trying tounderstand why are we having
more and more food trucks inBirmingham?
when I was doing a literarysearch, there was research about
immigrant food trucks.
research about Mexican Americanfood trucks.
research even about whiteAmerican food trucks.
There was nothing about blackAmericans in the food truck
industry.
(02:31):
it just so happened thatfollowing week I needed to write
my seminar paper.
my professor had checked in onus because we were all first
year PhD students and said,how's those seminar papers
coming?
And there was all blank faces.
he said, I get it.
It's your first, course in thePhD program, it's your first
paper.
You think whatever you write hasto be your dissertation.
It doesn't just write me a 10page paper about a question
(02:54):
that's on your mind right now.
And the question on my mind iswhat's happening with the black
food trucks in Birmingham?
I was like I know Birmingham'sgentrifying.
Does it have anything to do withthat?
I'm trying to figure it out.
And I got an A on the paper andI said, let me find out I can
eat my way to a PhD.
Because they started being realserious.
He was like, have you thoughtabout this?
Have you thought about that?
I was like, okay, these peopleare interested.
(03:15):
Like I just knew they was gonnashoot down this idea.
But actually they embraced itand got me to think more
critically about it.
And they got me to question,well, why do food trucks matter
at all?
And specifically, why do blackfood trucks matter?
What is the criticality of themto our ecosystem, to black
communities and to society atlarge?
And so that became my entiredissertation.
Heather (03:36):
Very cool.
And your doctorate you got toeat all these different foods.
Did you go into food trucks?
Were you talking to food truckowners?
how did you get your data forthis?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (03:46):
I did everything but own a food
truck, I started interviewingfood truck owners, and that's
how the Food Truck Scholar cameto be I wanted my work not to
just sit in the academy.
At best, maybe four people aregoing to read my dissertation.
What does that actually do forthe overall people?
I wanted to create somethingthat.
All the people that I'vecollected all this data from,
(04:08):
they could see it.
They could be like, okay.
She heard me and their messagegot out I started interviewing
food truck owners.
trying to find ways to give backso it wasn't always extraction.
I would go to.
Festivals, whether they were bigor small.
I went to the world largest foodtruck rally that had over 200
food trucks represented.
I spent three days walkingthrough it passing out little
(04:29):
cards, introducing myself,asking can I take photo of the
truck and giving them to themfor free to post social media.
I ended up hopping onto foodtrucks as they had lines wrapped
around.
I'm watching what is happeningand I could see when the food
trucks were cranking the foodout and when they were slow and
start asking them, so what'sgoing on and why is it like this
and why is it like that?
(04:49):
I started talking to food truckmanufacturers, I wanted to know,
who makes the food trucks?
I talked to everybody who sellsthe chassis.
I know the people who do custombuilds.
Who own food truck parks andwhat are the logistics around
that?
people that do commercial tires.
I talked to Goodyear tounderstand what does commercial
tires look like?
talked to different spacesbecause I I'm not a food truck
(05:12):
owner, and there are someexperiences I would never have
because I'm not a food truckowner.
But one thing about research, ifyou're doing it, with intention
and with care, you find yourways to immerse yourself as much
as possible.
Heather (05:25):
you've got some insider connections there.
sounds like you were able toaccess everything, have you seen
any major shift in food truckscarts, popups, that sort of
thing.
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (05:37):
I'm seeing a lot of people get out
of the food truck industry.
Heather (05:39):
And why is that, do you think?
Is that because of the economy?
what are you seeing
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (05:43):
it's a mixture of things.
some of the very first people Iinterviewed, went back to being,
restaurant chefs.
Some of them were classicallytrained chefs.
They started the food truck.
They rocked with the food truckfor a while, and then they
decide, This is way too muchwear and tear on my body I miss
having time with my family.
I miss having more set hours.
(06:03):
With other people, it was liketheir dream to have a
restaurant.
So now they've worked andthey've gotten that restaurant.
For some people it is just beendealing with ordinances in their
cities.
'cause not all cities fullyunderstand.
how to support the mobile foodindustry.
my hometown of Birmingham in2013, they had passed bills,
this mobile vending.
They treated it like ice creamtrucks because they really
(06:25):
didn't understand it.
And Philadelphia in 2020 whenthe pandemic hit there were so
many different food trucks thatif they didn't have a brick and
mortar, they closed because ofthe permitting.
It was really terrible.
there's a multitude of differentreasons why.
For some it's wear and tear.
For other people, it's no longerprofitable for them.
then others, it's like a step.
Heather (06:46):
it can be a great stepping stone.
It could also be an offshoot youhit on the thing about the
permits how cities treat, foodtruck owners.
it's quite difficult.
certain cities are definitelymore friendly when it comes to
this and others make it almostimpossible.
And I think a lot of it is old,things on the books that haven't
come up with the times as far asfood trucks go.
(07:09):
what are some the cities thatyou see are more food truck
friendly versus other cities?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (07:15):
this question is interesting because
what's food truck friendly interms of, you see a lot of food
trucks versus what's food truckfriendly in terms of policy?
there've been some policychanges since I last looked at
them.
as opposed to 2018, there wasthis Food Trade Nation report
put out, by the federalgovernment in conjunction with a
nonprofit entity.
(07:35):
They researched 20 differentcities and saw places like
Portland, la, Miami, some of theplaces you would expect to be
listed being friendly with foodtrucks.
the question then becomes, wesee this back and forth I
remember during the pandemic,the state of Florida had passed
something that said, no matterwhere you are in the state, if
you have a food truck permit,it's gonna be honored across the
(07:57):
state.
by the time individual countiesgot a hold of that, GONE right.
Birmingham is a food truck city.
However, there's still a lot ofwork that needs to be done to
help the process of starting afood truck, getting all your
proper permits and licensing inplace so that you're fully
compliant, that space is stillmurky.
LA historically is known forhaving the strictest, street
(08:21):
vending laws.
We can go all the way back to1921 on that, but still very
much a food truck friendlyspace.
I feel like it's always adifficult question to answer.
Because people see an area andsay, oh, it's so food truck
friendly.
cause there's many of them, butwe don't know how many hurdles
they had to jump to get throughthat.
And we don't know what loopholesthey may have found.
(08:43):
For example, You may wannaoperate in Forsyth County, but
Forsyth County is incrediblydifficult.
maybe you're in the county nextdoor in Davidson County because
they're a little bit morelenient.
when you get ready to come up toForsyth, to go to a Wake Forest
or something you do a day passor temporary permit because
that's easier you just have todig a little bit deeper to
understand what's reallyhappening in each of these
(09:05):
places.
I would always advise to talk tothe people that are local
Because if I give answer now, Idon't know what policy changes
they may have made recently.
Heather (09:13):
I just interviewed a woman who's lives in a city
where they don't really havefood trucks.
she was, able to shape.
The policies they're making inthat city for food trucks.
have you seen people being ableto impact, the policy making?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (09:26):
Oh, yeah.
I actually interview the mayorof Duney, Virginia, who was a
food truck owner.
of course he couldn't vote onthe bill, but he was
instrumental in bringing itforward.
I think about situations likethat.
like in Peoria, Illinois, thevery first food truck I ever
interviewed on YouTube.
They were advocating for foodtruck legislation in Peoria.
(09:47):
I've been fortunate to talk topeople who have those stories.
they're trying to keep the dooropen, not just for themselves,
but for others.
food truck advocacy can also bea murky space
Heather (09:57):
these are all things that people have to consider
when they're dreaming abouthaving a food truck.
People, see'em in movies orvisit cities and there's food
trucks everywhere, and they'renot thinking about parking
permits or, any other kind ofpermits they might have to have
and all the costs associatedwith it.
there's a lot of moving parts,with having a food truck.
they need to do their homeworkin the city or wherever they are
(10:19):
going to be located and makesure that, is it worth the
headache?
Like, Do they really wanna dothis?
As a CPA I see people startingbusinesses and they invest in
things they don't need to investin right away Are there things
you see people making thatmistake of jumping in too
quickly and spending money onthings that they don't need to?
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (10:36):
Yeah, first of all, do you need the
food truck?
I know of some places that theyimmediately think that, oh, I
have to have the food truck tostart.
I've talked to quite a number ofpeople that actually got started
at Farmer's Market.
They had, tents and tables andthat's how they started testing
if they had a product that wasin demand we call that proof of
market, right?
Yeah, you really wanna know doyou have a following for this?
(10:56):
Let's do it at the farmer'smarket where the fee, the
barriers to entry, are low,Whereas if you're rushing to get
into a truck you're probablyfinancing it, now you gotta pay
for the note.
Now you gotta pay for the gas,generator.
propane.
Now you gotta worry about tires.
Anything that can go wrong onyour car personally, if you're
driving a food truck, that canalso happen.
(11:18):
Maybe not as bad if you have atrailer and you can haul it.
But wouldn't it be a little bitless stressful if you can test
the market where there's lowercost?
There's not a whole lot ofpressure on you to make a
certain amount of money, thenyou can go into the truck.
Do you need to immediately startout with a truck, even though
that's your goal,
Heather (11:36):
It could be a reality check when people have dreams
about starting a business,they're not thinking in, real
terms of all the work associatedwith it.
a farmer's market, you gottastand there all day, but a food
truck, you're in a hot truck forhours you've gotta prep, you
gotta park, there's more hoursinvolved.
Ariel - Food Truck S (11:53):
underscore hot because I've been on a food
truck that was 140 degrees,
Heather (11:57):
my God.
Ariel - Food Truck Schol (11:58):
People never realize how hot it can
get.
And that's mild for some statesif you're in a place like Texas
or the deep south during thesummer you're sweating, getting
dehydrated very quickly.
that's why they say, be carefulabout painting your food truck
black, because that's making iteven hotter during summer
months.
I know food truck owners thathave had to do IV injections
(12:20):
just to make sure they don'tpass out.
it can be very serious there'sso many things that you don't
think about with the food truck.
you wouldn't know if you didn'thave someone to tell you.
So whether they're listening tothe Food Trust Scholar podcast,
whether they're listening toyour podcast, Heather, or
they're talking to some peoplein their area and saying, Hey,
can I volunteer for you for acertain amount of time?
(12:43):
And just learn to see, okay,wow, didn't see that coming.
Didn't know if I don't havediamond, plated flooring, I'm
gonna slip and fall in my truckNo one would know unless you
spent time on a food truck oraround people who have.
you could be losing moneybecause no one told you.
Heather (13:00):
I didn't know about that flooring.
Okay.
everybody loves marketing.
That's the sexiest part ofstarting a business.
wrapping a food truck can bevery costly but it can look
great.
are there some recommendationsthat you have to keep some of
these early marketing costsdown, and make you stand out in
the community?
I
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (13:20):
know people love the wrap, I'm not
going to come heavy on that.
The biggest question I'm goingto say is the branding
consistent?
Because sometimes it's not,
Heather (13:31):
describe what you mean.
Is that like social media, themenu, the truck,
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (13:35):
They need to match.
it doesn't need too much goingon.
If you're noticing thateverybody in your city tends to
gravitate towards red, black,and white, maybe you be the food
truck that is a different color.
I've noticed that in certaincities.
in terms of your logos, makingthem very clean and easy to
read.
I've even seen people avoidwrapping altogether and had a
(13:57):
graffiti artist do their truckand that was different.
Heather (14:00):
Ooh, that sounds actually really cool.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (14:02):
Yeah.
So food truck owner Iinterviewed, actually she has a
food bus, chef, TLC inIndianapolis, Indiana.
she got a old school bus.
they have less miles.
she got a graffiti artist out ofNew York come down and do her
bus.
Heather (14:16):
Oh my God, that sounds very cool.
here in Portland, we have adouble decker bus, like one of
those British style ones, and itjust sits permanently.
it's a coffee shop that is verybusy You have to wait at the
door to get in just like youwould on a bus.
They built an experience aroundit.
all these things, planning itout.
I talked to someone recently shespent a lot of time on her
business plan because she waslooking for a grant building a
(14:39):
business plan is something thatnot everybody wants to do.
They don't necessarily have todo.
But it's good to go through thesteps and think about
strategically all these things.
What is your target market?
What is the competition doing?
How much money do you need?
What is your financialprojections think through all
the different elements of thebusiness.
if you are gonna be the one, inthe truck all the time, can you
(14:59):
somehow scale this in the futureto have somebody else
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (15:03):
the business plan that's for
funders, for your loans, yourinvestors But planning the
trajection of your food truck Iencourage a business model
canvas'cause it's a one page
Heather (15:14):
yeah.
I love that.
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (15:15):
a lot of people, because they put
so much time into that businessplan, even when their business
is starting to deviate from thatand go in a different direction,
which could be for the best.
They may not adapt to it becauseit's not what they wrote Whereas
if they do the business modelcanvas, it can actually help
them adapt, more quickly andeasily.
Heather (15:32):
I love that.
I've got, the books this is agreat way, to figure out your
business all in one model.
I'm glad that you said thatbecause I love this as well.
you could put on a whiteboardand use sticky notes it's just a
great way to, visually see whatyou want your business to be,
and you can always change it.
Where do you see that thresholdof when people are able to take
on new hires,
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (15:53):
That depends on the person.
how much money do you have tobring on another person?
people may not have it.
Sometimes it's a family member.
I've seen a lot of food trucks.
become a family venture whereeverybody is putting in to help
them take off.
if you don't have that, it maytake a little bit longer because
there's a blessing of havingfamily and friends helping you,
but then it could also go left.
(16:15):
that's a little bit of achallenge.
comes down to the money thatthey're making back.
that's gonna tie into, are youpricing your food appropriately?
Are you dealing with waste bothproduct and time because that's
costing you money.
sometimes you need spreadsheetsto forecast your inventory,
standardize measurements, getyour cost structure down, get
(16:35):
your pricing structure down,putting yourself in those spaces
where you can grow and scale tobring on someone and pay them
this hourly rate,
Heather (16:43):
what is an area that you've seen people make mistakes
when it comes to their menu andpricing?
food costs keep going up,changing your menu, pricing.
how often should they be doingthat?
Ariel - Food Tru (16:53):
Unfortunately, right now you probably have to
do that way more regularly thanwe ever had to.
Because with the current lay ofthe land, we don't know how
terifs or any of that stuff isgonna impact, cost.
And availability.
Heather (17:05):
What are some of the things that you've seen that has
worked for people to keep them,profitable
Ariel - Food Truck Sch (17:09):
people's menus may change if they can't
get certain ingredients anymore.
with my book, I actually talkabout some of the things to
think about with your menucreation.
It's available on Amazon thatfunctions like a workbook.
Heather (17:22):
Say the name of it
Ariel - Food Truck Schol (17:22):
Before you launch a food truck.
There you go.
Heather (17:25):
do you have recommendations of tools they
could use?
There's spreadsheets, there'ssoftware, to figure out your
pricing for your menu
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (17:32):
you can use chat GPT.
There's worksheets forrestaurateurs and different
restaurant books and hospitalityclasses can also help I talk to
friends who are trained chefsand they now teach.
so a lot of those textbooks, allthat stuff, it helps.
Because let's say that you get,some vegetables, And you know
they cost a certain amount perpound.
Some of them spoil before youget to them, Or not The right
(17:53):
size that's per yield.
Mm-hmm.
Because you're gonna expect towaste some.
what you actually paid for perpound, that's not the price per
yield It was a certain amountper pound or per ounce, but by
the time you cook it down, youdon't really get that.
you have to account for that inyour cost and pricing.
A lot of people don't do that.
If you're not then you'reshortchanging yourself.
'cause every little thing thatis a part of your menu and not
(18:17):
for example, labor Paying them$25 an hour or$15 an hour,
that's not all of what it costsyou.
When you run payroll, there'staxes the price to run the
payroll.
Any insurance or benefits youpay them.
Heather (18:30):
Yeah, before we wrap up, if you had to name the five
biggest challenges food truckowners, have when they're in the
weeds.
What would you say those are
Ariel - Food Truck Sch (18:39):
funding.
Hiring and retaining anddeveloping employees,
Heather (18:44):
it's all about the compliance and labor.
Those are the two big thingsyou're talking about.
And making sure that you havemoney management,
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (18:51):
the bookkeeping is gonna be big and
even simple things such as howdo you handle cash?
I did a workshop with RegionsBank about, cash handling tips
and counterfeit money awareness.
Recognize counterfeit money, butalso you can be short in a
drawer or accidentally give thewrong change all because you
(19:11):
have poor cash handlingtechniques.
making sure that when you'recounting the cash, all of the
dollar bills are faced a certainway group everything by fives,
tens, whatever.
that's important as well.
And those are things you learnin retail or customer service.
But if you're working withsomeone that's never had that
experience and now they're on afood truck, they may need to
learn that.
Heather (19:31):
I've encountered people that don't know how to add or
give back change.
a lot of places, they only willtake credit card.
They don't wanna have any cashon hand, because of robberies
but cash you don't have to payall the fees associated with it.
cash is actually really good.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (19:46):
we're getting, incentivized at a lot
of restaurants that if you payin cash, you get this percent
off.
Heather (19:53):
We have that here too.
but to
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (19:54):
your point, because a lot of people
are cashless in digital, thereis the challenge with payment
processing systems and how muchfees they take out and all of
that stuff that can happen
Heather (20:04):
any last thoughts for someone who's either thinking
about it or they are in theweeds and they're like, what did
I get myself into?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (20:11):
Slow down and do research You can
listen to me, you can listen toHeather, but if you're in a rush
to do things and you're notdoing your due diligence, you
can be taken advantage of.
unfortunately, I've seen that inmore spaces than not.
There are some things peoplecharge thousands of dollars for
you could actually do yourselfif you took the time to read.
(20:32):
And we're in a space now where alot of people don't want read
for themselves.
They don't wanna said they wantsomeone to come in and tell them
exactly what to do, and I thinkthat has its place, but it
should not replace you as thebusiness owner doing your due
diligence to at least know, likewhen you're talking about taxes
and whatnot, Heather, I may notbe the best accounting person
(20:53):
out there, but you gotta knowthe basics around managerial
accounting to know if thebookkeeper is doing what they're
supposed to do or not.
The same thing is key with yourbusiness.
So please take the time, do thedue diligence, whether it is
researching the food truckmanufacturer, figuring out
reviews on it, do your duediligence at every step.
Really take the time to learn.
Heather (21:14):
Awesome.
I love that.
Ariel, you have a book.
You had a podcast, and you'reeducating, the future.
Tell us about what you're doingas a teacher.
Ariel - Food Truck Sc (21:21):
currently I am an assistant teaching
professor of entrepreneurship atWake Forest University.
I've been here in North Carolinasince fall of 2023.
I've been teaching classesaround entrepreneurial
marketing, so I chuckled whenyou asked me the marketing
questions.
Also taught a class I designedcalled Black Entrepreneurship in
America.
we look at the experiences ofblack entrepreneurs from
(21:42):
Colonial America to present day.
I'm teaching some new classesthis fall to really get students
thinking a more holisticperspective around
entrepreneurship.
And then as an entrepreneurmyself, I've done a lot of other
projects during and since theFood Truck Scholar now people
just come to me to say, Hey, canI pick your brain about
something?
And usually it is aconsultation.
(22:04):
They really want my thoughts ontheir business.
So I have something called ideatherapy that people can come in,
sit down in a very casualsetting, we can just brainstorm
together basically their thoughtpartner, through whatever
concept they want to do.
Heather (22:16):
is that through the university or something you
offer on the side?
Ariel - Food Truck Schol (22:21):
That's separate.
I'm getting ready to launch anew updated website on that
soon.
So I'm very excited about that.
Heather (22:26):
if people wanna follow you on the internet, where do
they find you?
Ariel - Food Truck Scholar (22:30):
You can find me, the Food Truck
scholar.
Instagram is still active.
I'm still there.
Dr.
Ariel d Smith is also anotherInstagram you can follow me on.
So both of those I can messageand reach out to you.
And I'm also very heavy onLinkedIn.
follow Ariel d Smith, PhD, youcan always engage with me there.
Heather (22:47):
Ariel, thank you so much for being on the show today
and giving us your knowledge.
you've really studied thisstuff.
You've got a doctorate in it, sohow cool is that?
thank you Ariel, and Iappreciate you so much.
Ariel - Food Truck Schola (22:59):
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me on.
It feels good to be on the otherside of the mic.
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