Blackballed but never broken: Dula-Mite’s real Las Vegas story

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Forget everything you thought you knew about making it in music. Abdullah "Dulamite" Franklin pulls back the curtain on an industry built on smoke and mirrors, revealing why artists with millions of streams can still be broke while those you've never heard of are quietly building empires.

"A billion streams on Spotify equals fourteen thousand dollars," Franklin explains, cutting through the fantasy that streaming success equals financial freedom. As a rapper, songwriter, and entrepreneur who's written for some of the biggest names in music (though NDAs prevent him from naming most), he's navigated both the spotlight and the shadows of an industry that often exploits creative talent.

Growing up as a Sunni Muslim in Las Vegas shaped Franklin's perspective as "an acquired taste" – someone unwilling to compromise authenticity for acceptance. From watching his brother get lyrically "murdered" in a neighborhood battle that inspired his own rap career, to facing religious stereotypes and industry blackballing after an altercation with a well-connected artist, his path has been anything but conventional.

What sets Franklin apart is his business acumen. While many artists chase streams and social media followers, he's built a direct-to-consumer model that puts him in control of his data and dollars. "If somebody buys my album for $1, I got the 1,500 streams," he explains, but more importantly, "I know exactly who bought it, what city they're in. I get their email address, their phone number." This intelligence has allowed him to tour strategically in cities where his true fans live, not where streaming algorithms suggest.

Beyond music, Franklin has diversified into beverage brands, clothing, and acting – embodying his "renaissance man" approach to creative entrepreneurship. His parting wisdom? "Let God be God, you do the rest" and "The decisions you make determine your destiny." For anyone looking to build something meaningful in a world of fleeting viral moments, this conversation is essential listening.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Vegas Circle Podcast with your hosts,
paki and Chris.
We are people who arepassionate about business,
success and culture, and this isour platform to showcase people
in our city who are making ithappen.
And today's guest is just thatman.
We got the good brother who Iwould call the true renaissance
creative rapper, songwriter,entrepreneur, who just dropped a
new powerful album I just got achance to listen to yesterday.

(00:20):
Man, put some money in yourpocket too, man by the way I
appreciate that, but we're gonnaget into that.
Uh, so let's welcome to thecircle.
Man, artist, songwriter,entrepreneur, mr doulamite,
better known as penn franklin.
This was way overdue, man, yeahthis was.
This was way overdue.
Yes sir so but let's jump rightin, man.
So new album out.
Now got a chance to check itout.
Don't let me mess it up aat.

(00:42):
Being real is a new fate, yep.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
And acquired taste volume two.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's exactly what I wanted to ask you what did it
mean An acquired taste?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm an acquired taste , okay, and the reason why I
call myself an acquired taste?
Many reasons Accountability,right, so outspoken.
So I'm one of those people thatdon't mind telling his truth.
But my my telling my truth iswell thought out.
I don't just, I don't think.

(01:10):
I think before I speak, butsometimes people don't like
those types of people that canyes, ain't a yes, man, right and
you can articulate how you feel.
But also with the music thing,people had this thing where if
you're a rapper, you had to be agangster.
That's not where hip-hop camefrom.
If you look at the people thatare the top artists right now,

(01:32):
they.
I'm from the hood.
I just didn't become a productof my environment.
I didn't want to be a blood, Ididn't want to be a crip.
I didn't want to be a vice lord, I didn't want to be a gd.
I love what you're saying.
Right now you're're changingthe whole setup.
Yeah, I'm from the hood, but Ididn't want to be a corner boy.
So Kendrick Lamar is from thehood.
He's a good kid from a mad city.

(01:53):
That's the definition of me.
So when it comes to the LasVegas scene, I'm an acquired
taste, because a lot of thepeople I call it selective
outrage and they're selectiveabout who they like.
I'm from the east side of LasVegas too, so we're looked at
differently than what west LasVegas and north Las Vegas is
looked at, because it's moremulticultural A lot of Latinos,

(02:15):
a lot of Filipinos, so it's abigger area.
West Las Vegas and north townlooked at us like we were the
dirty kids and we were.
I'm from 28th Street.
I come from poverty, so I knowI'm an acquired taste because I
represent all those things.
So if they're going to say itabout me, why not?
I don't mind being that shit,yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
That's real.
The two tracks on the album Ithink I'm I'm feeling the most.
I'm going to listen to it moreCause I like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you a lyricist man, Thankyou, and that's what I love
about it.
Is you actually sayingsomething?
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Super Nintendo, Sega Genesiswas my and I texted you this too
.
Yeah, you did.
Judas the Kiss 2.
Judas Kiss 2, yep.
And then what I also like, man,is you tweaked it up and put

(02:58):
like Black Mamba in there.
Is that your style?
That you've always done isputting the art and motivation
and just kind of keeping youhooked.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
I like doing concept albums Okay, but everything in
those interludes represented me.
So, like in the beginning, itwas saying I don't like going
out to the club, I don't want togo to the club.
Yep, if I'm going to go to theclub, I want to get paid for it.
If I'm going to go to the club,I don't want to stand in the
line, I want to be on the flyer.
This is stuff I had to learn.

(03:25):
So you get treated differentlywhen you're that.
So I want it to be a purpose onwhy I'm going to party.
So while people was going tothe club, I was in the studio.
When people was going to theclub, kobe was in the gym.
So a lot of that stuffrepresents who I am as a person,
is that I'm trying to get it.
So, while I'm trying to get it,when I do go, have fun, I want

(03:47):
it to be great fun.
I don't want to go to Dre's, Iwant to go to Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah.
You speak of our languagebrother.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, I don't want to go to the Bellagio.
I know what the Bellagiorepresents, so why not go to the
real country?
I don't want to go to the Paris, not the casino.
I want to go to Paris, France.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
So is that because you grew up here and you because
I feel, like Vegas, you getspoiled, like we got everything
here.
So, like growing up here, youhave it in your backyard.
You know what I'm saying?
It's a different.
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
OK, locals don't really care about the strip.
Ok, you go don't really careabout the strip.
Okay, you go to new york.
They don't care about that.
Time square good point sopeople that's in california,
disneyland, knott's berry farm,all of that shit is just normal
shit that's true, that's trueit's like la and vegas have
something different.
Vegas people like to go to calibecause we need to be around the
water, because we're in aspaghetti bowl.

(04:39):
I agree, la, come here so theycan party.
We can party anytime we want.
We don't have to do it on thestreet.
We have hookah clubs next tothe jack-in-the-box.
So for me, I just we were poor,I was in a poor neighborhood.
The reason I wanted to dohip-hop I wanted to get out of
my circumstance and I wanted tosee the world um I don't want to

(05:03):
go to the strip to see theworld, I want to see the real.
I want to see the real Statue ofLiberty, not the one at the New
York, new York.
So that was, that was my thing,did somebody?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
teach you that, and the reason why I'm going to have
a follow-up question on that isbecause I learned that too when
I started having kids.
Yeah, Like I remember when Iwas 21 years old or maybe 20
years old and I'll neverremember.
I always remember this businessowner saying to me don't buy
your stuff, your kids, materialstuff, like take them on
experiences.
And once you take them out assoon as you can take them out of

(05:34):
the country it's going tochange the whole mindset about
life, and it seems like you didsomething similar to that.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, when I was a kid, you know Judas 2 on the
album.
That's real.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I was listening to it.
You could tell that reallyhappened.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Like I don't have a great relationship with my
parents.
Okay, like I haven't talked tomy pops probably almost 20 years
and then me and my mom we don'treally talk.
So growing up I grew up in anabusive household.
I saw you know I'm not puttingthem on blast, it's already in

(06:10):
the music I saw my dad do crazyshit.
I saw my mom accept crazy shit.
So I didn't travel, we didn'tgo anywhere, stayed in vegas, it
was.
They went places.
I didn't got you.
Like.
My mom traveled for work.
When my dad wanted to meet upwith one of his girls on the

(06:31):
side from my mom, he would gotravel, me and my brother.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
We didn't go anywhere got you.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
So for me I was like, nah, fuck that I gotta.
I gotta see the world once I'mold enough to get out of here.
Happen yeah so that's why Isaid rapping was for me to get
out of my circumstances.
Got you.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
When did you start getting like?
When did you get into music?

Speaker 2 (06:50):
My first talent show.
I was seven Damn Okay Me and mybrother, and my brother wanted
to be a choreographer.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
So my brother is the one that got me in hip hop.
So my brother overhead tapes,cds.
Is he older than you or youngerthan you?
I'm the youngest, okay.
So my brother doing routines atMC Hammer, I'm right there with
him.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
That's what's up.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Okay, bobby Brown.
I'm a little, but he listeningto Bobby Brown, but he was a
choreographer so he was teachingyou all this stuff.
Yeah, he was teaching me how todance.
And then, with the music, mybrother decided he wanted to rap
, but he was trash.
He ended up battling this dudein the neighborhood and got
killed.
What I saw from that was thereaction of the people,
especially the girls, oh,getting murdered.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, girls was all over, the dude
that killed my brother.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, so initially I wanted to learn how to rap so I
could beat that dude.
What's?

Speaker 1 (07:39):
y'all's difference in age.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
My brother got me by six, seven years.
Okay, yes, it's a big gap, it'sa big gap, but dude killed him
and I was like, nah, I got toget some get back from my
brother.
Okay, ended up getting the getback.
Yeah, and I mean, it's justaddictive, when you love doing
something, 100% yeah themendorphins kick in, man.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
You see that, like we were talking about sports,
right, them endorphins ofhooping, like you were talking
about, and sports, all that.
It's a drug, man, and I don'tknow if we'll have enough time
to get into social media,because that's another drug too.
That's another drug, but let'stalk a little bit about your
upbringing then.
So, being Muslim, we weretalking about it on the phone a

(08:17):
little bit man.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Let's jump into that man, because Sun yeah, sunni
Muslim, sunni Muslim, yeah,you've always been practiced
that way.
Did you convert?
I'm the only one that was borninto it Interesting, so my dad
was in the army and I wish Chriswas here for that man too.
Like I was telling you, Chris,I was sick, but Chris' family is
a lot of Muslim in Michigan, inthe Detroit area, so I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
No, no, no, no, you're fine out here.
You get treated differently,like how?
So though I'm finna, break itdown for you.
So my mom and dad, my pops, wasin the army, okay, him and my
mom was together and they werekind of soul searching.
So my brother, he got tocelebrate Christmas and all of
that stuff.
So of course he do some soulsearching.
So they was like, okay, islam.

(09:00):
They was like, okay, islammight be it.
So by the time she was pregnantwith me, they were converting.
So Abdullah is not my originalbirth name.
Okay, so you changed it.
They legally changed my namewhen I was three months old.
Okay, so I was Marquise forthree months, interesting.
And then it was legally changedto Abdullah when I was three

(09:23):
months old.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Wow Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Your parents changed it.
My parents changed it Becausethey were in the middle of
converting.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, they changed their names.
They changed my brother's nameand then they changed mine.
So, marquis, I don't even knowwho that is, wow.
And you said three months old.
Three months old, I was a baby,and so I've been Abdullah the
whole time, growing up as theonly Muslim family, of course,
in the United States.
If you're black and you'reMuslim, what's the first thing I

(09:48):
said to you on the?

Speaker 1 (09:48):
phone.
Be my brother.
That's exactly what I thought,right, everybody think you in
the nation of Islam and all thatstuff, and so that was a
struggle, because kids havejokes.
Of course we are.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Everybody's a porkologist and know all the
pork shit and all of that stuff.
And it everybody's aporkologist and know all the
pork shit and all of that stuff.
And it was funny.
A lot of the gangsters thatgrew up in my neighborhood they
used to make those jokes.
Of course someone went toprison and then some of them
didn't, but some of themconverted to islam and then not
nation of islam, they actuallyconverted to be sunnis oh, sunni
, okay, yeah, to be sunni sothat that became funny.
But for me it was.

(10:22):
It's just always been, it'sjust normal.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's just a matter of everything.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
But I didn't want to be the kid that said oh, I'm
Muslim because of my parents.
That's a big statement.
Yeah, because you know somekids, my dad's a pastor, so I'm
that.
Well, did you look into any ofthis shit?
And once I looked into it I waslike nah, islam kind of makes
more sense for me.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, okay, that's awesome man, that's deep man,
because I think the first thingI said to you over the phone, I
told you my godmother, luanza,live across the street from from
farrakhan.
That's why I laughed.
So when I, when I was, when Iwas seeing it, the first thing
you do is correct me like no,I'm not, and it's amazing how
that's what you think a lot ofpeople think that, yeah, that's
what I grew up seeing.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
I get disrespected a lot too.
Because is that disrespectthough?
No, no, no what I mean by thatis that a lot of people think
they can speak on muslims.
Crazy, okay, okay, becausepeople do.
Okay, if you speak, you sayanything about a jewish person,
oh my god.
If a muslim says anything aboutchristianity, oh my god but we

(11:20):
get left, but we get all thejokes.
That's why terrorists, y'all youpork.
Oh, don't eat starbursts, it'spork in that.
Oh, like some dude made a joke,call me mr allah akbar, and I
was sitting.
I'm like yo, that's wild,disrespectful dog, because like
this is religion, like you don'treligion.

(11:41):
Family that stuff that's offlimits you can talk about my
music all you want, say doula,suck, that's fine.
But like religion and you knowfamily and stuff, kids, stuff
like that, that's off limits andsome people don't know the
limits on leaving religion whereit is.
But, like I said, I let Godsort that out, that ain't for me
to sort out.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
That's good man.
I wish we could have got it too, because Chris will have a
different perspective on it too.
But writing music, so I knowyou've written for a lot of
people, A lot of people.
Yeah, Was it Trey Songz orTimmy?
How many people have you?
You've been in the lab with alot of folks, man.
So let me step back for onesecond.
Writing is hard.
I almost fucked it up.

(12:20):
I can't even imagine I almostfucked it up.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
How?
So?
All right Mind, if I give you astory.
Of course, yeah, I'm not goingto name the people's names, so
they'll be like Artist A, artistB, producer A, producer B.
So Houston, texas, swisherHouse is popping.
Okay, so I'm opening for MikeJones, paul Wall, slim Thug in
Houston.
We backstage chilling.
Artist A walks in with Artist B.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
They just did an album together.
I'm going to be able to putthis together.
Man, I'm trying to figure outwho it is.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
I'll mess with you they got their security guards,
but the people that theyconnected to are powerful.
I'm not thinking about that atthe time, but it ended up being
a great lesson for me aftereverything that happened, right.
So we back there.
And a great lesson for me aftereverything that happened, right
.
So we back there.
And my manager at that time waslike yo, let's go say what up
to artist a, artist b, so me andmy boys go over there.
So everybody put their hand out, was shaking their hand.

(13:15):
Artist b was cool as shit,shook my hand and everything.
Artist a shook everybody's hand,but mine on purpose, on purpose
, left me hanging like this.
I said damn dog, you just gonnaleave me hanging.
Man, who's this motherfuckerman, I don't want to shake your
goddamn hand.
I felt like shaking.
I didn't feel like shaking allthese damn hands.
Then go on.
I said word, I walk off.

(13:39):
There was a whole thing ofwater bottles.
I started flinging them overthere.
I'm trying to hit thismotherfucker with water bottles
Dumbest shit I ever did After Ithought of water bottles.
It's about to be a fight.
I still got to go on stage.
I go on stage and do afive-minute freestyle dissing

(14:01):
this motherfucker.
He almost died.
I'm saying he about to die?
Stupid yeah Little do.
I'm saying he about to die,stupid yeah Little do I know.
Duh, he has a CEO and thatCEO's dad was in the music
business too.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
J Prince somebody, so he didn't blackballed, you were
blackballed.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I got blackballed instantly.
Oh wow, because I startedgetting writing opportunities.
When you get writingopportunities, people find out
who's behind certain stuff whenyou present the demo track.
After they hear the demo track,they look at who's involved.
Nah, we ain't messing with him,we ain't messing with him.
Y'all got to figure that out.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Wow, what year is this, because Y'all got to
figure that out.
What year is this?

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Because Mike Jones and them was fire.
Swisher House then was popping.
So we talking about between 05,07.
I'm a young, I'm a pup, stupid,though I got blackballed for a
good 10 years, and that's whereI told you on the phone when I
text you that's when the NDAscame in.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Oh, because, oh, I got where you're going with that
, okay.
Okay, let's jump into that.
Then let's go ahead and fastforward a little bit on the.
So you sign NDAs because ofthis reason, because you don't
want them to know who you were.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
That's one of the reasons.
Okay, so one reason get paid.
What three reasons one get paid?
Well, three reasons One getpaid.
I'm broke.
I need these opportunities.
I'm in a small market.
As an artist I got to make somemoney.
Write for these guys, get paidup front, but your name's not
going to be in the credits.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Is that good?
Oh, because you're blackballed.
You got to come up with someway.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
NDAs is basically ghostwriting.
Yeah, it is.
So what is ghostwriting?
Yep, your name's not going tobe in the credits.
You can't even speak on it,like I can't even tell you all
of the artists that I've beeninvolved with that.
You know, I didn't even have tomeet them, but I'm involved
with the writing of something,even if it's three lines in a
song.
I can't even speak on itbecause because of the

(16:00):
non-disclosure agreements.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got paid,but some of those songs ended up
being big where I could havegot more.
There were some songs thatdidn't do too well, yeah, and
then there's some songs thatdidn't even make the albums.
Are you allowed to say it nowor you still can't say nothing?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
I still can't say nothing, okay.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Only on the ones that you know I put in the thing.
Yeah, yeah, I'm still justabout to.
I'm only getting my name inthose credits around like 2027.
Okay, because of myentertainment lawyer, you know,
kind of helped me with some ofthat stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
The other thing is, people don't understand what
urban splits and pop splits are.
I'm understanding there's 50-50for urban right Writer to who
drops the beat, but pop don't dothat.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Pop is dispersed with everybody.
Yeah, okay.
So, like hypothetically, ifit's a Madonna song, madonna can
have 13 people just writing toproducers.
We're talking about theengineer, all of that stuff.
It's probably getting brokendown in between 20 people.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
That's horrible.
That's not a lot of money.
Yeah, I was going to say that'shorrible.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
But the 20 people, that's horrible, that's not a
lot of money.
Yeah, I was gonna say that'shorrible.
But the artists sometimes, ifthey wrote their song too, you
know, the artist is kind of goodin that situation.
But writers people understandwriters.
We don't get paid a lot ofdough.
It's not a lot of money.
You're writing unless you saveyour money, got it okay, so
that's.
Another thing was the urbansplits and the pop splits, and
then the last thing was it wasjust I was broke.

(17:25):
I was an underground artist.
As an artist, I'm gettingopportunities.
Fuck it.
I made this bed and until I'mable to clean this room up, I'm
signing these NDAs.
But yeah, I've been involved ina lot of songs that people
dance to at the club or singingwhen they're doing their hair,

(17:45):
and I can't even speak on it.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Can you say anything that you've done with Trey Songz
and stuff like that?
Or you have to do NDA with him.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's a very popular song.
Okay, that one would beresolved, like I said, in 27,
but it's a very popular songthat people was dancing to in
the club.
That was the first one that Isaid.
I got to get mine on that oneso but yeah, blessed at the end
of the day, though blessed to beable to still have a career.

(18:13):
You just had to stay quietabout it.
What's the biggest?

Speaker 1 (18:16):
lesson you think you've learned just for for
ghostwriting and doing thingslike that.
That maybe has helped you inyour music.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Maybe it's helped you in your music like being able
to see maybe the process, thebiggest lesson I learned, period
in the music industry.
Somebody that's triple platinumis broke.
Everybody see these stars.
It's the people behind thescenes.
That's why I don't mind beingbehind.
I don't need to be in front ofthe camera If I'm never in front
of the camera.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Why do you say that they're broke?
Because people say that all thetime and I don't know the ins
and outs like you do.
Why do you say that they'rebroke?
Is it because of what they takeup front the payback, whatever
deal that they?

Speaker 2 (18:49):
do?
They don't realize it.
Especially early on you got toremember what they were getting
before.
360s Was horrible.
They was getting paid more.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
The 360s were paying more.
No Before 360s artists wasgetting more, but it was a loan,
exactly, a lot of them didn'tlike.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
People are like yo 50 got signed for a million.
No, that was a million dollarloan that you had to pay back.
Yeah, what you do with thatloan, that's something else.
You know what I'm saying.
So a lot like I saw aninterview with Scarlett, that's
with Swiss.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Beats.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Never heard of them.
Yeah, yeah, she's got to do thesong with Mary J Blige, right?
Yeah, I love the fire song.
She didn't know that heradvance was a loan and Adam 22,.
Or it was Vlad or Adam 22, itwas Vlad.
Okay, vlad had to break down toher that no, that's a loan,
that's not an action, did she?
Find that on the podcast.
She didn't know, and a lot ofartists don't know, that people
see these chains, they're in itI've heard that.

(19:47):
Yeah, I've heard that plenty oftimes man, I've seen so many
people that were heroes and onceI got around them I was like I
didn't look down on them, butI'm like nah, the shit that
people think yeah it ain't, itain't what they think it is like
a lot of them I don't even wantto say broke okay, it's some
that are broke, and them I don'teven want to say broke, okay,
it's some that are broke.

(20:07):
And then it's some that aretrying to make it look like they
live lavish, but they're justmiddle class, like us.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
So, how, like there's so many rabbit holes we could
go into on this, but likeeverything has changed right,
obviously CDs before.
Now you have your way of doingbusiness.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
It hasn't changed.
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Okay, okay, so correct me.
So how has it not changed?
Because the streaming is waydifferent.
I'll break it down for you,okay.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
I'm not educated on this.
No, I'm finna.
Break it down.
People don't think about this.
Okay, cds were sold between $9and 99 cents to maybe 1999.
Back in the day, right Artistswould get maybe a nickel, and if

(20:54):
you were in a group, 15 centsoff of each record, and then yep
, okay.
Right, we can even use like TLCand Tony Braxton as an example.
Right, they were killing it,they're killing it, they're
selling, they're selling 8million records.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
But they also go on tour, but that's where the
money's made, right On tour.
But check it out.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
The music videos cost more.
The Waterfalls video for TLCwas a million dollars.
The stuff that they got to payeverybody on the tour, even the
money from the merchandise, wasbeing paid for the production
because, like all of the, thepyro and all that stuff, all of
that shit costs.
So once that was paid back, thelabel was paid back, get you

(21:35):
paying everybody back.
That's the loan.
Artists are the last ones toget paid.
So now you break it down tostreaming.
It's no different artists.
Let's do an indie artist.
They go on spotify.
Who do you sign up with?
Distro?
Kid, tune core, either way,you're paying a yearly fee to
have your album on this site,right?

(21:58):
So let's say, tune core used tobe.
I think they lowered the price,but in the beginning it was
49.9999 a year.
Okay, okay, okay.
So $50.
You put your album on there.
Streams are less than a penny.
So now people buy bots, likewhat we were talking about on
the phone.
Okay, yeah.
So people don't realize that amillion streams on Spotify is

(22:23):
only $1,500.
But it's not $1,500 upfront,it's dispersed month by month.
Get what I'm saying.
Now let's really break it down.
Artists buy streams, so thereare people that would say,
500,000 streams on this song,$999.

(22:46):
They paid a $999 for those.
Then, I remember, at the end ofthe year they will put up the
stuff.
Yeah, I got 687,000 streams.
So why didn't Spotify sing youa plaque?
Your music videos cost, studiotime costs the album cover, the

(23:06):
photo shoot.
We can keep going.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Clothes, gas models everything costs everything's a
budget how are you making money?
So how do they?
How do they make?

Speaker 2 (23:21):
exactly the smoke and mirrors.
Basically, a billion streamsnow on spotify equals fourteen
thousand dollars are you serious?

Speaker 1 (23:32):
so that's why what snoop I think snoop was was big
on that right.
He was talking about thinkmaking I don't even know forty
thousand dollars or whatever wegot like forty thousand dollars
off of a couple songs that hedid.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
And that's real, that's normal shit so how do we
change that?

Speaker 1 (23:48):
like, how does that?
How does that change?
Is it going with what you'redoing with like even, and things
like that's?

Speaker 2 (23:53):
the bigger question how do you make money?
Now, right, okay, and that'swhere I was at.
Okay, I said, well, fuck, howin the hell do I make money off
of this shit?
There's people like Ryan Leslie.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
It's a genius Superphone.
I love Ryan Leslie.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
There's people like Nipsey Hussle.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah, there's LaRussell.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, Shout out to Mag and Selena at even they hit
up LaRussell.
Larussell was already startingthe blueprint on.
Okay, what the fuck can I do tomake money?
Because I'm working at a callcenter and I'm not making money
off the music.
I know the feeling.
I worked at five call centerswhile doing this.

(24:34):
So you ask how do you maketours?
What do they sell at tours?
Merch?

Speaker 1 (24:43):
yeah, merch, that's what the money is money's in the
merch, okay.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Money's in the tours, right.
How do you do that?
You gotta reach the people,right?
We used to listen.
If you buy something it's likean album what are you gonna do?
You're actually gonna listen tothis shit, but if you go to
spotify, you go to playlists.
Direct-to-consumer makes peoplenot only listen to the music,

(25:08):
they can become fans.
They actually get excited aboutwhat you're doing.
Next, as the artist, you'regetting paid, so you don't have
to worry about the Spotify shit.
You're already getting paid upfront.
Think $1 equals 1,500 streams.
So if somebody buys my albumfor $1, I got the 1,500 streams.
Artists aren't making money offof the streams.

(25:31):
You have to become like.
You asked me the one time whatam I?
I said I'm a renaissance man.
People buy my shit.
You get merch, but you got topay for the merch.
But what do I do with thatmoney?
That allows me to save themoney.
It also allows me to see who'sbuying it.
What city are they in?
Oh, all the analytics you knowexactly, I have the exact

(25:54):
analytics.
Streaming doesn't give you theexact analytics.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
It is a phoenix or spotify runs, and apple and all
of them own those analytics, nota calf but so do the record
labels.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh, good point.
The record labels now havebought into those streaming
services.
I know exactly who bought it,what city they in.
I get their email address,their phone number when I
dropped the album you can talkto them yeah.
Well, volume one I had moresales in Nashville and I had
more sales in Atlanta and I hadmore sales in Miami than I did

(26:29):
in Las Vegas.
I took my ass to Atlanta and Itook my ass to Nashville.
When I dropped the album, gotinterviewed and I found out damn
, my shit is reaching something.
But if you look at theanalytics on Spotify, it's going
to say Phoenix, no, remember,you bought the streams, so you
don't even know where youranalytics are coming from.
So it's just really a case ofeven if you put your album on a

(26:51):
streaming site, you got tocreate a website and start
selling yourself.
You can't rely, but some peoplewant to be popular.
Some people don't care aboutthe money.
Some people will listen topeople that don't know shit
about the music industry.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Or get just taken advantage of.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
I know podcasts that will sit there and say artists
need to invest their money intotheir music and be shooting
their podcast from a garage.
Well, are you using your moneyto invest in your podcast Me?
I can't speak for everybody.
I ain't listening to this nigga.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
That's so funny.
You say that Chris and Ireinvest everything.
Look at this.
I'm going to be honest with youwe reinvest everything, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
And this is just the beginning, and I'm not dogging
those people.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
But what you're saying is you're being honest,
yeah is you're being honest.
Yeah, you're being honest, andsome people be in that garage
for six years.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
You mean to tell me in six years you and your
partners ain't made it to wherey'all got a building and you got
the logos and you trademarkstuff and all it's a business,
everything they so busy tryingto be popular it's not realizing
you're a business, you're abrand.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
That's where everything changed for me so let
me I want to back up just forone second man, because so who
is making money?
Is it they have?
There has to be a way thatthey're making money, or is it
just a facade or like what it's?
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
I got a three-word answer.
Okay, ask me that questionagain how are these fellas
making?
No, ask me who is making.
Who's making money?
The smart niggas?
The smart niggas.
The smart niggas is any color,man and woman.
That's what I call them, thesmart niggas.
Larussell getting dough.
Larussell got to deal withCrocs.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
I love LaRussell, I told you on the phone.
I love him.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
I just love what he did with his backyard.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
You don't hear him on the radio.
He's not even on XM radio Himand Russ.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Russ is getting that chicken.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Just hustling, but he comes from the school of Russ
as well too.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
But what I like about Russ is Russ' dad was in the
music industry.
I heard that, yeah, russ tookthat— he's a Jersey cat, right.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
East Coast cat.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
yeah, I think he's an East Coast cat, but he took the
information at East Coast, buthe took the information.
Some people you know peoplelike the gatekeep.
Russ is not a gatekeeper.
Oh, I like that.
Yeah, russ is like nah, I'mgoing to give people game.
If I was giving the game in myhousehold, I'm going to give it
to people.
I'm not a gatekeeper.
You know what it is too.
Though.
Everybody has a definition ofsuccess.

(29:21):
I agree, I agree with you 100%.
Yeah, my definition shit my sonis good.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
You with me.
We solid on that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Roof over my head, yeah, car, yeah, refrigerator
filled up.
Nice shoes, nice clothes,passport stamp Can leave
whenever I want.
Yeah, how old is your son?
Yeah, he is 13.
We got the same birthday.
Okay, that's what's up.
Okay, so that's success to me.
And then, as I grow, then cool.
But I make music and I dosomething that a lot of people

(29:52):
don't do with their music.
What is that?
I make money off of it.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
So it's somebody like , for example, I feel like a
Beyonce.
Let's say and the only reasonI'm saying that is because she's
a mega star.
Yeah, mega star, when you writefor like a Beyonce, let's step
back for one second, don't?
Folks do not make any money offwriting for Beyonce Not a lot
of them.
Why so she keeps?

Speaker 2 (30:19):
everything or the ladies keep everything.
No, she don't keep everything,but it just depends on how many
writers are on the song.
Okay, like, if you look at thecredits for like Cowboy Carter,
there's a lot more writers onthat On a few songs.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
But Raphael Sadiq made a lot of money off of that.
Oh, because Raphael Sadiq notonly helped produce on there, he
damn near wrote on damn nearevery single song.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
So also sometimes— On .

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Cowboy Carter.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
On Cowboy Carter.
On Cowboy Carter.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
I didn't know that, okay.
Like Eric Bellinger makes a lotof money.
I know that name Okay, becausenot only can he do production,
he writes too.
So there's some people thatmake Leon Thomas.
It's fire.
I like that brother a lot.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
But he was writing for people.
But he's been doing it for aminute, right A long time.
Yeah, kanye, and all that.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
We can keep going.
Bryson Tiller, yep fire Dream.
Sean Garrett.
I have a whole list of some ofmy favorite writers that I'm
like, yeah, they get thatchicken, but then it's the— Is
it because they brokered theright deal?

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Is that what it is?
You have to broker the rightdeal and have the right
licensing for that particularsong and cuts and all that stuff
.
It's networking.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Okay, okay for that particular song and cuts and all
that stuff.
It's networking.
Okay, networking and buildingrelationships Like Dream's
godfather for one of his kids isHov, that makes a lot of sense.
So if you build thoserelationships it's like some
people don't think about this.
When I leave this podcast,you'll be getting text messages
from me just checking on you hasnothing to do about the podcast

(31:44):
.
Yeah, relationships, oh man,you'll be getting text messages
from me just checking on you hasnothing to do about the podcast
Relationships.
Yeah, oh man, what you up toWant to meet up for dinner, it
don't matter if it's Applebee's,that's what you support, you
get it.
You build those relationshipsbecause it's bigger than what
people think it is, because,like, if I get an opportunity,
say I'm doing a movie and theyneed a spot for a podcast and
they need people Holla at my man.

(32:06):
Yeah, yeah, you build thoserelationships.
People don't think about thatstuff.
People just they use you.
Like some of the Vegas artistswill come in here and do this
podcast and you'll never hearfrom them again.
That's wild, yeah, but that'swhat people do.
It's about what your intentionsis with this shit.
My intentions is with this shit, my intentions?

Speaker 1 (32:27):
is to be a brand.
We on the same, we literally onthe same plane.
Let's talk about the Vegasartists.
Man, we'll jump into that man.
So why don't we support theVegas artists like a lot of
other markets?
I know we talked a little bitabout it over the phone.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
We actually do?

Speaker 1 (32:41):
How so?
Or why haven't they blown up?
They have.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Okay, do how.
So why, or why haven't theyblown up?
Or they have?
Okay it.
Just what am I missing then?
People want it to be like newyork and atlanta.
We're not big like them.
Okay, neo, and I get it.
Let me say this here's the conneo's from vegas.
He doesn't be like I'm fromvegas, but when he got his
residency here, when he postedabout it, he said I'm a kid from
vegas and I'm doing a residencyhere.
This is a dream come true.
Yeah, he's not a gangsterrapper, or I mean you know, I'm

(33:11):
a hell of a musician.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
I mean, he's a fucking.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, one of the best songwriters of all time period.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I think he wrote for beyonce too.
Right bro, for everybody.
One of her biggest hits iswritten by him.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I was gonna say, yeah , yeah, so he wrote.
I think he wrote for mario.
You should let me love you.
That's neo yeah neo.
Imagine dragon.
He's killing it, the killerskilling it, fucking baby keen
dizzy.
Right, we can even go toathletes, steven jackson that's
my man.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, steven, my man andre agassi.
Yeah, marcus banks like we.
Those all been all guestsexcept for andre agassi, but
everybody else has been on theshow, which everybody wants to
be like oh, you got a red day.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, yeah, bro, we even second tier, right jazz
laser is writing hits I knowthat name too.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
What is it?
Who's?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
jazz laser.
Jazz laser is with theproduction group the audibles,
but he's an artist too, he got.
Oh, okay, okay, okay, he got arecord deal with Murder Inc
before Irv passed away and hegot out of the deal because Irv
got sick.
Yes, but Jazz Lazer has writtenfor Summer Walker, oh wow, and
numerous other people, yepMaking moves.
He even wrote for Justin Bieber.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Okay okay, Justin Bieber Okay Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Pooh Bear, molly Mall , that hosts all of them.
That's out here, all from LasVegas.
They're not from Vegas, butthey brutes.
But Lazer is from Vegas, okay,but like you know, he's
networking, creatingrelationships Molly Mall, pooh
Bear, the Audibles, jazz Newton.
He understood the mission.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
P-Fire, another rapper from Vegas.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, I just came on to P-Fire.
I think he's friends with myguy.
He doing something with FrenchMontana Hype man for French.
Yeah, he's my friend, he's myman in Real House.
I don't know him but PuertoRican cat, I think.
Yeah, I think he Puerto Rican,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
P-Fire Wes Khalifa, french Montana Fire.
If he a hype man for the restof his life, this motherfucker
is traveling seeing the world.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
I saw him at the gym.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Dude, I'm proud of you.
So, like I said, people got tothink about what do you think is
success?
Our Beyonce is going to come,our Jay-Z is going to come, but
there are people that are doingstuff in this industry.
Some people don't want to be inthe limelight.
I got a friend that said I juststarted to think that Vegas is
just going to have riders, sowhat have we do?

(35:30):
Vegas has written some of thebiggest hits.
Some people be out of touchwhen they speak about certain
shit that they just don't know.
Well, you know, this is atransient town and you got to do
blah, blah, blah.
Shut up, you don't know.
You talking from 2008, my niggait's a whole different game.
Now Reezy I'm bringing up, I'mjust saying Reezy produced for

(35:52):
everybody.
Shout out to Reezy.
I don't even know who Reezy is.
I ain't no front.
Yeah, euros.
Okay, he wrote, I think, one ortwo songs on Bryson Tiller's
new album.
Okay, incredible artist man.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
I can keep going see, that's what I love about and
that's why I told you before islike that's why we wanted to
build vegas circles, because wereally wanted to put the
spotlight on people that aresuper talented and are really
the ones building the city, youknow what I mean.
So that's excellent that youmentioned in that.
Let's talk about the blackballing.
We talked a little bit about40-40 on the phone, but I want

(36:25):
to go in that lane real quick.
What happened?
Right?
So you were mentioning about alot of artists basically getting
blackballed because theycouldn't perform at specific
clubs, lounges, things alongthose lines.
But in your perspective, whathappened?
We?

Speaker 2 (36:37):
used to have a lot of different.
Like you know how, in 8 Milethey had the shelter.
Vegas had a lot of spots wherelocal artists was doing stuff,
where we were opening for peopleat these spots.
Now, what year was this?

Speaker 1 (36:50):
because I moved to 07 .

Speaker 2 (36:52):
So what, even around that time, okay okay, even
around that time it was around2013, 2012, maybe I could have
the year wrong, but it wasaround that time.
It just kind of got shut down.
Okay, the the Beauty Bar I'mtalking about Beauty Bar sounds
familiar.
Okay, the Beauty Bar downtown.
The Bunk House, daddy Mac's Inn, green Valley Damn, there's so

(37:13):
many.
If we want to really take it tothe 90s, the Cooler Lounge Okay
, there was a lot of placeswhere.
But, like even me, I got toperform on the strip.
I performed when crownnightclub was was here.
Okay, I remember crown.
Okay, I performed opening nightat crown nightclub.
Okay, talking about 1500 people, e40 and everybody in the
building performing for thesemotherfuckers.

(37:34):
And then there was a situationwhere a local rapper killed a
few cops.
He got ambushed, he did what hedid.
Next thing, you know, a monthlater, the sheriff at that time
was on the cover of the lasvegas weekly.
He was like nah, fuck, hip-hopin vegas ever since then.

(37:58):
Yeah, big sean can go to dray's, gucci can go to Dre's we not
performing at Dre's, they notputting us on the strip.
And then every time there's aplace out here that's outside of
the strip that I have artistscome through.
Suddenly, six months to a yearlater, that liquor license is

(38:19):
pulled.
Oh, they didn't have theirliquor license, it wasn't proper
, so it got pulled.
So that's why I say people gotto get out of the spaghetti bowl
, leave the city.
Landlord, the landlord Vegaslegend still is.
He's on my Mount Rushmore.
Got the fuck out of Vegas.
He signed a grind heart withStarlito and Don Tripp.

(38:41):
When he goes down south, theyknow who the fuck he is.
He's already looked at like ahero out here.
They love landlord out here.
But landlord understood themission.
He was signed to floydmayweather for a minute too,
okay, but he understood themission leave vegas.
Jay cole was in north carolina.
He left north carolina am.

(39:02):
I see you.
Waka flaka was in ohio.
He left.
You gotta leave your city.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
That's interesting.
You say that because I did thesame.
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
You say that If I got signed tomorrow and I became
like this big star.
I'm moving out of Vegas.
I feel like I would probablyget killed.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Really.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Your hometown is either gonna really really
support you, but you're gonnahave somebody that's hating on
you.
Haters are dangerous.
They're great, but they'redangerous.
Some of them are reallydangerous because of their mouth
.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Especially because, like with the Nipsey situation
and so many things that couldhappen, you never know, yeah,
yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
But also, too, there's going to be people that
are jealous of your success.
Get the fuck out of your city,but regardless, you have to
leave, no matter what New York,new York artists go down South.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
They stay in Miami, they stay in Miami, they do all
that shit.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
So the sheriff to me just created opportunities where
motherfuckers had to leave thecity.
We already knew LA cats wasn'tgoing to fuck with us.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
But why is that, though, y'all too close?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Y'all like cousins.
They fuck with me.
You got gotta prove you can rap.
Okay, I was the second artistthat was on homegrown radio.
Dizzy.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Dizzy was the first that's what's up, okay you gotta
your resume is serious, man,your resume is serious I don't
say that because they'll saythat it's not I like that.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, but to all a day keep talking shit.
I like it, but yeah, it's just.
God has blessed me to be ableto where.
If people talk to me, I'm anopen book.
I ain't gatekeeping.
It's up to you what you'regoing to take from the
information that you get when wetalk.
But I have no reason togatekeep.
I'm going to hold myselfaccountable.

(40:36):
I know where I fucked up.
I pay attention to thisbusiness and I still got shit.
I need to learn about thisbusiness.
I could have said somethingduring this conversation that
somebody else would hear and belike that ain't all the way
right, but he's close, but atleast I'm close.
But Vegas definitely was on thestrip.
They was not having that shit.
So advice to artists if you'relistening or you're watching

(41:00):
this, get the fuck out of thecity.
There's an artist out here thattook that lesson and I'm so
proud of him Tay Banz.
Tay Banz just went on his firsttour with Steven Joseph, who
signed with Eric Bellinger's newlabel.
He gets it.
There's artists like East GodSelly that's starting to get it.
I can keep going.
Lit Sox shout out to him.

(41:21):
He just got a deal.
He was on the episode of canaanand he was on the sound his
song went viral.
He just got a record deal.
Even tiktok is behind him.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
So those people that were saying that there's no shit
so let me ask you this rightlike vegas is next.
So and I love you saying thatbecause I love vegas Is it
better to be independent, then,or do you sign to a label?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
That's a great question.
This is how I break it down toyou.
Russell should be independent.
Sexy Red needs a record deal.
Why?
Because they just put the fuel,put the gas on her.
I'll do another example.
See if you catch it.
Russ can stay independent.
Ply is needed a record deal.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
So you're saying they're not talented?
I'm kidding, because LilRussell's super talented to me
Cardi B and Nicki.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Nicki can be independent because Nicki has
been on songs with men andkilled them.
Nicki loves hip hop.
Cardi loves money.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Big difference, it's a huge difference.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
I follow you.
Nicki knows the money's goingto come because of her talent.
Look at her right.
Her surgeries went great.
Nicki's a bad motherfucker.
Everybody took the blueprintfrom Nicki but Nicki could wrap
her ass off and she madetimeless music.
The writers behind Cardi ismaking pretty.
She made timeless music.
The writers behind cardi ismaking pretty, really good
timeless music.
But it was about a 10-year gapbetween each album so she

(42:53):
wouldn't.
It's a different it's adifferent type of love she was a
brand.
Cardi became a brand and focusedmore on the brand.
The music kind of fell in theback.
I follow you.
You, Nicki, was like nigga Iwant to be the best female
rapper of all time.
It's the difference in themusic.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
She was trying to be better than Wayne and Drake and
all that Exactly, literally,trying to compete, really
competing with them.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
If you look at Sexy Red people like her.
They'll be hot for this longand then they fizzle out.
She has to keep doing whatshe's doing until the next sexy
red comes.
Her job is to, within a two tofour-year period, see how many
songs I can make, so that way Ican always go on tour, even if

(43:36):
it's clubs when things fizzleout.
She needs the machine behindher.
Larussell don't need no machinebehind him, he's the machine.
He is the machine.
Straight the machine, straightup machine.
So that's what I mean.
So it depends on what type ofartist you are.
If you make timeless music,your personality is timeless.
You're not chasing clout,you're not worried about the

(43:57):
social media stuff.
You're just really an authenticartist and you make great music
and brands love you and allthat stuff, not temporary brands
.
They really love you.
You're good.
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
People forget kendrick got rebox that's a very
good point, yeah drake istimeless.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
We can go.
Yes, there's a lot some peopleain't timeless.
Yeah, so if you're a timelessartist, you can have a a machine
one album and go independentthe next album.
If you're not timeless, youneed that machine behind you.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
So where do we go with music?
Where do you think music goes?
We got AI, we got all, becauseyou said it's the same as far as
streaming, how we were gettingpaid from CDs and things like
that.
Where do we go next?
What do you think is the nextthing that's coming up, maybe in
the next five years or so?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
it's only going to come back when they start caring
about talent.
I love that you're saying thatthey don't care about talent.
No more.
I'll give an example.
I'm actually going to put themon blast because I don't care,
because they was put on blastthat they was doing shady
business.
I went to Atlanta to meet up afew years ago with Authentic
Empire.
It was an upcoming indie labelin Atlanta, had a meeting with

(45:06):
them.
They did not care about mymusic.
All they cared about.
When I met her with that A&R.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, the musicis playing.
I'm sitting there looking atthem.
I'm like this is when I knew Ineeded to go indie 100%.
I'm just looking at them.
Yeah, so you don't be on TikTokthat much.
Huh, I said no, yeah, your IGfollowers are cool.

(45:29):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I said what about the music?
Yeah, it's cool.
I said, oh, I get it, theydon't care about it.
He said he looked up, you don'twant to do work, I get it.
And I walked out.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Because when you say work, help you build the artist,
get it out.
That's what they used to do.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yes, People don't realize.
Aretha Franklin had droppedabout four to five albums before
she actually had her first hit.
Janet Jackson's first twoalbums didn't hit, so they got
Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
Bobby Brown's first albumdidn't go well.
That's a good point.
Yeah, Reasonable Doubt justwent platinum.
You know what I'm saying 20years later.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
whatever 20 years later it went gold.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Going gold wasn't good in 96 and stuff.
So they got to develop asartists.
That's why they're still around.
That's why some of the bestmusic are coming from 40 and
50-year-olds.
They don't develop artists.
I'm like, ah, y'all not tryingto mold this so it can get to
the masses.
You want the work already done.

(46:37):
Well, when they ready to do thework again and actually go to
open mics to see that there'sactually actual singers and not
letting the rapper sing theirown hooks, that's when the music
industry will come back alive.
Do you still love it then?
Do you still enjoy doing it?

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Hell yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Okay, my goal is whether it happens or not.
I don't care, but that's myambition as a rapper.
When I'm done, I want people tobe talking about me in top 20
west coast not vegas, west coastor just be in the conversation.
That's what's up.
Yeah, even in vegas they don'trealize they're putting me in

(47:17):
the conversation, but I'm in theconversation.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
That's like whether it's good or bad, yeah, you're
talking about it I think that'swhat floyd did so well, man it
People pay to see what the loosand these yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, music is subjective.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Yeah, it is, everybody got their favorites.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
So I get it If I suck at least you're talking about
it.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
I get it.
I get it, man.
I just want to transition onesecond about being
non-accessible.
I just want you to finish up onthat side.
Why do you say you'renon-accessible?
What does that mean to you?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
I can give access to you because I feel comfortable
giving access to you.
That's fair.
We're here and you'respotlighting me as an artist.
You didn't ask me anything togo viral.
We're actually having aconversation.
In the past, I've Clickbaitit's all clickbait.
Well, you could just Like howwe talked before the interview,

(48:08):
right, yeah, yeah, clickbait,it's all clickbait.
Well, you could just like howwe talked before the interview,
right?
Yeah, you could have beentaking information from me and
flip it and try to make itnegative to see if it'll go you
know where you're going.
Yeah, I've talked to peoplewhere I remember this jason lee
was cool with hollywood unlockand all that stuff.
Yeah, he was cool with Lyricaand I forgot her husband's name.

(48:29):
He was the blonde-haired guythat was the producer.
They were cool.
He saw Homeboy out on a date.
He saw him on a date, talked tohim on the phone while he was
on the date.
I said while While he was onthe date right, puts it out that
he's cheating on Lyrica.
He puts it out.
He's cheating on Lyrica.
He puts it out.

(48:49):
Jason Lee does Homie's likewhat the fuck?
We was just on the phone.
Why would you do that?
He said anytime you talk to me,whether we're friends or not,
I'm still doing my job.
So it's all business.
It's all business.
He didn't know how to turn offHollywood on live.
I've had conversations withpeople and I call it what it is.
I've had conversations withpeople and I call it what it is
Barbershop conversations.

(49:10):
If we having a conversationabout a local rappers and I'd be
like man MC such as such, Ithink he trash.
He not really my style.
It's barbershop talk.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
I'm thinking it's an opinion.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
I'm thinking I'm in a comfort zone to do that,
because we talking like wepartners.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
They like they go back and tell the motherfucker
and now I'm a hater.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they stirring up the potand they watching from a
distance seeing it.
Oh you messy, that's gossip,all of that stuff.
So when I meet people I candetermine nah, you ain't my cup
of tea.
Like people speak on me anddon't even know me.
I saw one person say, as a man,how you know as a man, I don't

(49:54):
even know you, you just know ofme.
You don't know what I am as aman.
How can you speak on me?
As a man, you can talk aboutthe music, all you want.
You're not going to get to knowthe man.
People know I got a son.
They'll never know about my sonunless you in my circle people
don't even know where I live.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
I don't, I just I don't, I don't fuck with
everybody.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
I get it.
Social media has definitelymade it that way, where you
can't fuck with everybody youshow what you want.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
It's a highlight reel , but you show what you want to
show.
I show what I want.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
I don't put nothing personal on my on my social
media.
I don't even want if they couldtalk about my religion, I'm not
even giving them a say.
I was married I'm not marriedbut if I was married, I'm not
giving you the opportunity to goon her dms to look her up.
None of that stuff, becausethat's me, that's, that's your
bubble.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
That's my shit.
I get it, I ain going to letnobody infiltrate.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
That I get it.
But non-accessible too inbusiness is you have to be
careful who you do business with, especially as a songwriter.
You do a song with somebody andthat person is in a production
company where the CEO doesn'thave good relationships with

(51:11):
radio and they see your name onthem credits.
That fucks you up, so you haveto become not accessible to nah.
I look that nigga up.
I can't fuck with him, so youjust gotta realize due diligence
.
You gotta do the rightrelationships, networking I, you
have to understand being smartas a person and being smart as

(51:32):
the brand and being able toseparate them.
You can't be your persona allthe time.
At the end of the day, it's WWE.
Hulk Hogan is not Hulk Hogan.
Hulk Hogan's a brand.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Right, the Rock is the.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Wayne Johnson.
I understand the difference.
I didn't.
At first.
I was always acting like dukeof my.
I was fucking up relationships.
I'm an mc.
You're not better than me.
They're like I don't give afuck.
You trying to make money, yeahso yeah, that's what I did, so I
make myself non-accessible to alot of people that's what's up,
yeah, so I think it's also goodfor this too, man.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
It's peaceful, it's good for that you know what I
mean.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
So people try to put me in gossip.
I'd be like I don't talk tonobody, so y'all had that.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
It's crazy because we , chris and I, we laugh about
this all the time.
Man, we always say that healways makes fun of me because
he says I always say everybody'sgood people and he says they're
bad people till they showthemselves.
Right, but I'm big on energy,right, so I'm big on energy, so
I'm always about bring thatright energy, and it's gonna
come back full circle.
Absolutely, you know I'm sayingso, but I get it because my

(52:33):
circle's small too, man.
I mean, when you see me, I'm,I'm always just with my wife.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Man, my kids might sound crazy when I see this, but
I was in a club one time andit's gonna sound crazy, but I
think people that believe inenergy and spirituality will
understand this.
I'm seeing beautiful women, butwhen they looked up, I could
see a skull.
Oh shit, your spirit ain'tright.
I'm cool and I could look atpeople and be like, oh shit,

(53:00):
something ain't right with them.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
You know we can go a long long list on that.
It's something my father hadsaid a bit.
But I do want to ask you aboutbusiness advice or just life
advice in general, man.
Just you know, being an artist,entrepreneur, I know you have
other businesses that you'reinvolved with too, man, but
what's made the biggest impactthat's helped your life, or for
our listeners, that you canleave them a nugget on?

Speaker 2 (53:23):
I live by certain quotes, but the number one quote
that I go by.
Well, two quotes that I go by.
Let God be God, you do the rest.
The number one quote that I goby.
Well, two quotes that I go by.
Let God be God, you do the rest.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Let God be God.
You do the rest.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yes, Love that A lot of people only pray to God when
there's bad stuff going on.
Did you thank this motherfuckerfor waking you up?
Brushing your teeth?
Yeah.
How about the fact that youwoke up peacefully?
Yeah, some people be in badrelationships.
I've had them.
Your kid went to school andcame home and didn't have a
bully fuck with him.
Thank you, god.

(53:51):
You know people only thank Godwhen it's convenient for when
you need them.
Yeah, yeah.
So, and then the other thingwith the let God be God too,
though, is God already wroteyour book, your chapters are
already written.
You got to do the work.
Yeah, walk through it.
Yeah, if you don't do the work,if you don't do the work, that

(54:12):
book can change and themchapters can evaporate and turn
into something else.
The other one is, which goeswith the first quote the
decisions you make determineyour destiny.
Do the research.
If you want to be a doctor, yougot to go to school for the
shit.
Well, if you want to be in themusic industry, learn about this
shit, and there's a lot in themusic industry changes every two
years.
Ai, that shit is serious.

(54:33):
We about to have cartoonswinning Grammys.
Better understand what's aboutto go on.
Do you want to be part of that,trying to fight that, or do you
want to create your own brand?

Speaker 3 (54:45):
I love it yeah that's true.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
That's very true.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Speaking of brand.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yeah, I know you're gonna ask a question.
I came bearing gifts.
Yes, speak on it.
Yeah, all right.
So this is for you and chris.
One partnered up with a chef,eddie g.
Okay, he created his ownbarbecue and seasoning called
griffs his name after his dad.
That's what's up.
So all of these recipes werehis father's, okay, and as he
became a chef, he turned it intoa product.

(55:13):
Father passed away, so it wasdedicated to him.
So this is the all-purposeseasoning and this is all the
different barbecue sauce.
See some jerk over there, man.
Yeah so anybody that's watching.
You can go to Griff'sBBQSaucecom, that's bar grips
bbq saucecom.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
That's what's up.
Okay, and it doesn't cost a lot, but it's delicious, so this is
for y'all.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Okay, I appreciate that man.
I also partnered with demontime rum okay their website is
drink, drink demon rumcom.
Okay, so they're in lee'sliquor, okay, okay, all of that
stuff.
Okay, that's actually my firstpartnership.
Okay, networking, yeah mepeople came to a listener party.
He's like I gotta fuck with you, yeah, so this is for you as

(55:55):
well too.
Appreciate that man delicious,and then I actually own this one
so exquisite.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
This is actually the prototype you know you're gonna
make my kids, my kids gonna beall over that.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, I'm actually building the website for that
right now.
Okay, so that's actually likethe prototype.
I'm actually getting bottlesmade so they can look official,
so I can put them in stores.
So that might take a year, butat least people can taste the
shit.
So it's called ExquisiteSensations.
Right now it's pink lemonadeoriginal lemonade.
I got a fruit punch coming.
I'm working on some otherflavors.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
I came up with the recipes.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
That's what's up.
The science went to thescientists and all that stuff.
Oh, you were real with it.
Oh yeah, there's no calories,zero calories in this shit.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Get out of here.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, okay, probiotics in it.
Okay, so it's actually not onlygood, but it's good for you.
Oh, you're speaking my language.
Okay, hats, what they call them, a Pooh Shiesty mask.
Okay, all of that stuff youasked about the logo.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
That's what I wanted to know.
I see the king in the seat when.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I first came up in the mixtape circuit it was the
TI shit.
I got influenced by TI, I can'tlie.
He called himself King of theSouth, so I called myself the
certified King of Las Vegas.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
That's what's up.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Okay, oh, I thought it was, but it ruffled some
feathers right, it wasn't to sayI was better than anybody, it
was to ruffle feathers.
But number two, to be in aconversation to where now people
either say he ain't the KingAnytime they bring up the word
King, my name pops up.
So, whether it's good or bad,that means I made an impact.

(57:30):
That's powerful.
But I drew that.
Oh, you drew this.
Yeah, okay, and so all of myshirts is to be.
We have different type of stickfigures, because I was like
what can I do?
That's different, but you canmake a stick figure, look cool.
So this is the main logo forFresh Academy Cloths.
So, yeah, I got you all theshirts.

(57:51):
And then also, too, if you buythe album, you can purchase, get
the whole setup.
You can get the whole setup aswell too.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Mention that too.
Your album is on Even yeah,Evenbiz.
Okay, I wasn't familiar withEven until you sent me the link.
To be honest with you, that'salso partly owned by la russell
and that's why you mentionedthat.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Okay, so I actually pulled something off with that.
When they first started, yougot to be accepted by them, and
so when I got accepted I put anacquired taste value one up.
I just wanted to see how Iwould do.
I only did one music video,didn't do any interviews,
nothing, barely did anymarketing.
I just wanted to see how many Icould sell.
Ended up selling the first week129 albums.

(58:30):
I got hit up by the CEO.
He bought one.
When he heard the album, westarted conversating.
Next thing, you know, I becamea partner.
Oh, so you're a partner even so,when you go to the artist page,
they got J Cole on there.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Kevin.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Gates, because all of them partnered with even too,
as you scroll down my picture isright next to Damian Lillard.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Oh, that's what's up.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Damian.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Lillard is on Even Two.
That's what's up my picturelike this Okay, congrats, man.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Salute to that man.
I didn't know that Okay.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
I don't want to put my albums on the streaming sites
.
I'll put maybe one to threesingles, okay, but it's a pay as
you want.
Model, pay what you want, aminimum, a dollar.
Love that which like I sayequals the 1500 streams, so the
whole album.
You gotta buy it.
But if you want to just hearsingles, you go to the streaming

(59:22):
sites if you want to do that,but that's how I make my money,
that's what's up.
So yeah, man, congr, yeah mancongrats, man.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
I'm learning something from this man.
I'm learning something for this.
I can't leave out what I askedyou about Vegas food man, cause
I always I'm a big foodie man.
I love food.
So what's your favoriterestaurant in Vegas?

Speaker 2 (59:39):
being being a local, I mean like mom and pop's joint
okay to me of all time that'snot around and it pisses me off

(59:59):
was hamburger heaven hamburgerheaven if you from vegas was
that all 15 no, it was on thewest side.
Okay, okay, okay, it was, um,damn, it was a street.
It was okay, listen to me.
Okay, if you from vegas, okay,I'm definitely grew up here okay
, you know what hamburger heavenwas.

(01:00:21):
When did it go out of business?
Yeah, when I was, probably,when I turned about like 14, 15
years old.
Okay, I'm upset about but tothis day.
It's the best hamburger I everhad.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Okay Hamburgers matter of fact, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Because they make it right there.
They made it right there.
Okay, remember that skit on InLiving Color when Tommy Davidson
would come to the window.
Hamburger, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
That was hamburger heaven.
Oh, get out of here.
It was just like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Okay, they're making the hamburgers at best fucking
cakes.
Okay, I'm talking about thebest caramel cake I've ever had.
Chocolate cake hamburger heaven, fire hands down.
Okay, I don't mention nobodyelse until them, of course,
grits, grits cafe, or grits onthe west side, I don't know if
it's, I think it's grits cafeyeah, grits is delicious.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Um, it's Grits Cafe.
Yeah, grits Cafe, but we alljust call it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Grits.
Yeah, Grits is delicious.
It's this African joint Cali.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Bash my man.
That's my favorite.
Ole, that's my favoriterestaurant.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
That's my favorite.
Yeah, I go to Ole.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Ole, shout out to Ole , I talk about her show.
She is fire.
She sat next to me.
She's like you ever top fiverestaurant.
I go to all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah, they ate African food.
I said nah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
She sat there with me and said they're the same
palate, yeah, yeah and Nene, soI could tell you the whole story
.
I know them really well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
They're great people.
That's my favorite.
Right now they fire at Calabash.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I'm glad you said that, man.
What else is up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
for you, man.
Let me say this man, God is soamazing.
I don't care what your beliefsays, man, you got to.
God is amazing.
I'm working on, I'm shooting afew more videos for this album.
I'm actually already working onvolume three.
Okay, as far as, like therecording part, the money that

(01:02:12):
I'm getting for all of the sales, I'm putting it towards, my
goal is, in 2027, to be able togo to have my own 10 city tour.
Okay, take like another vegasartist with me, no matter if
it's bismarck north dakota.
Okay, get the building, have aconcert.
That's the goal.
Okay, but as far as what'scoming up in january, I'll be.
I'm actually filming a privateconcert okay here in vegas.
Yeah, it's okay, you'll be there, it's gonna be a full
production okay and everything,so I'm doing that.
In january I'm actuallystarring on a new dramedy okay

(01:02:37):
we're actually on the thirdepisode.
Okay, it's called.
It's untitled.
They have a name for it is thisthe one?

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I saw some video.
Was it like berries orsomething like that?
You were doing some video andrecording, okay he told me to
take it down.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
The director called me Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
I said it those are my guys over there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
So, I know Barry just got married.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
So I love him so shout out to CJ and all of them
Sorry if I wasn't supposed tosay that, my bad.
No, you're fine.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
They casted me for the show, so I want to say the
title.
But shout out to cj and josephadu for actually putting it
together, the alley-oop for toget me on there, because I did
the doritos commercial becauseof them.
Okay, congrats, man so acting.
Shout out to oba, my man, obaashward.
Okay, he, I got a song that'sgonna be the title track for an
independent movie called chances, so I got that coming up.
Got a couple more auditions forsome movies.
Okay, I got a podcast comingout next year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
I'm tired you overdue for that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
gonna call that.
I already got it.
It's called the Shit you Scaredto Say.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
I can see you're gonna hit a home run with that.
Yeah, so it's not gonna be ahip-hop podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
It's like this different guests all walks a lot
of stuff, yeah um, using myrelationships and talking about
them.
That's what's up.
What else I got new flavorscoming out.
The website will be coming out.
Freshacademycom is coming injanuary.
Damn about working man oh lastthing I'll be.
If you know it on YouTube, it'scalled For Shooters Only.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Next year.
I'm actually it's like a micdrop for like like 2 Chainz and
Neo just did it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Oh, okay, okay, I'm not familiar with this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
They actually contacted me today.
Okay, in my email.
And yeah, they want me to dothat in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
That's what's up, man .
So yeah, that's what's up, man.
So yeah, thanks man.
What's the social handles man,people can reach out to you on?

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
man, everything is D-U-L-A-M-I-T-E on everything.
That's what's up, man.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Well, I support what you're doing.
Man Check us out atthevegascirclecom.
Man Support this brother, manHustling.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
So, thank you, brother, aren't doing shit.
Yeah, it means that you in thecave and you haven't tried to
see, because we have tons ofpeople making moves.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
We're going to keep spotlighting.
Yes, man, appreciate you,brother.
Thank you, man, that was goodstuff.