September 12, 2024 • 43 mins
What happens when resilience meets faith in the face of life’s trials? This week on Veil and Armour, we welcome pioneering Feminine Genius podcaster Rachel Wong from Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Rachel shares her remarkable journey as the founder of The Feminine Genius Podcast, which she hosted from 2019 to 2022. It was a podcast that celebrated the myriad expressions of Catholic femininity. She opens up about her mental health struggles and how her unwavering faith provided guidance during tough times. Rachel also reflects on her transformative experience at World Youth Day in Panama and the lasting impact it had on her spiritual and professional endeavours, and God's calling in her life.
Have you ever felt paralyzed by the fear of making life’s big decisions? Our discussion delves into the common struggle of discerning our vocation, both within religious life and beyond. Rachel revisits her experience discerning with the Daughters of St. Paul, while Sheila shares her "Come and See" experience with the Missionaries of Charity. Together, we explore the importance of taking steps in faith, the courage to embrace the unknown, and the continuous process of spiritual growth. Rachel recalls how she learned from each and every guest on her show, each contributing to the rich dialogue of faith and the Feminine Genius.
Our conversation also touches upon the growing acceptance of conversations surrounding mental health, especially within the Catholic community. The episode also touches upon the importance of fostering a supportive and inclusive community through digital media. Join us as we continue our mission of connecting and uplifting through the power of shared stories and faith.
For resources on mental health in Canada, please seek advice and help from your doctor and local health professional in your area/city/country.
In Canada, Kids Help Phone for children and teens is available: Text 686868 (free and across Canada, based upon information found online on Sept. 11, 2024) https://www.kidshelpphone.ca
As of Sept. 11 2024, YouTube recommends this link of resources:
https://findahelpline.com/
Connect with Rachel Wong:
Instagram: @rchlcwng
https://www.rachelwong.substack.com
Connect with Sheila:
- Instagram
- X / Twitter
- Website
https://www.veilandarmour.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sheila Nonato (00:19):
Thank you, enrich the lives of Catholic women, to
help them in living out ourvocation of raising the next
generation of leaders and saints.
Co-Host (00:27):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Sheila Nonato (00:36):
Welcome to Episode 16.
Today we speak with the host ofThe Feminine Genius podcast,
Rachel Wong, from Vancouver,British Columbia, and she had
this podcast for three amazingyears.
We talk about vocation,discerning a religious vocation,
and Rachel also talks candidlyabout her struggles with mental
(00:57):
health and dealing with mentalhealth, and also what is next
for Rachel.
Stay tuned.
Welcome to Rachel Wong, to Veiland Armour.
We are so happy to have youhere and so honored to have you
here.
Thank you, yeah, thanks forhaving me, sheila.
Thank you, and I usually juststart just saying the Hail Mary.
So, yeah, we'll just start withthat, if that's okay.
(01:19):
In the name of the Father andof the Son and of the Holy
Spirit, Amen, Amen, Hail Mary,Full of Grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Rachel Wong (01:32):
Blessed art thou amongst women, and Blessed is
the fruit of thy womb, JesusHoly.
Sheila Nonato (01:37):
Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners now and
at the hour of our death.
Amen, in the name of the Fatherand of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit, Amen.
I'd like to introduce you toour guest.
Rachel Wong is a Catholicwriter and speaker based in
Vancouver, Canada.
She's formerly the host of TheFeminine Genius Podcast, a
podcast that celebrates thediversity of Catholic femininity
, one woman's story at a time.
She loves storytelling,connecting with others over good
(01:59):
food and conversation, andadventuring with the Lord.
Thank you, Rachel, welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you, yeah, so great to behere and touring with the Lord.
Rachel Wong (02:05):
Thank you, Rachel, welcome.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, so great to be here andto be with you.
Sheila Nonato (02:09):
So yeah, I've been listening to your podcast.
Amazing, amazing work, and canyou tell us how did it start.
Rachel Wong (02:15):
t, and I have to say too, it's been a while since
I've actually told the storyand I think, just as some
context for your listeners aswell, The Feminine Genius
podcast had run from 2019 toabout 2022.
So here we are recording in2024.
So it's interesting, I think,to talk about it in the past
(02:36):
tense, because it's stillsomething that folks can, of
course, listen to, but it's notlive like there are no new
episodes coming out, not livelike there are no new episodes
coming out.
But I think the long and shortof it is that I, in 2019, I'd
gone to World Youth Day and thatyear it was hosted in Panama
and I you know it was my firsttime like being that far away
(02:58):
from home, without family, and Iwent with Catholic Christian
Outreach on a mission trip andit was a beautiful experience.
You know everybody talks aboutWorld Youth Day and being like
this kind of pivotal moment fora lot of Catholic young adults,
and certainly it was nodifferent for me like very
impactful, getting to see PopeFrancis and just being with, you
know, hundreds, millions of,like hundreds of thousands and
(03:20):
millions of Catholics fromaround the world and just seeing
everybody praising the Lord inthat way and I remember, just
like even going into thatmission, that pilgrimage, really
feeling a sense of, I guess,like, maybe like frustration
with my own life.
I was kind of at that point inmy university degree where
(03:41):
things were starting to come toan end with my time in school
and I thought I knew what I wasgoing to do with my life.
But I wasn't so sure and I hadbeen an avid listener of
podcasts up until that point andI was studying communications,
I wanted to do something withmedia but, yeah, things weren't
(04:03):
really lining up, so let's justput it that way.
So fast forward to World YouthDay, and I really got a sense
that the Lord was inviting me tosomething big.
And that year World Youth Daywas also held in January, which
is very unusual, but because ofwhere Panama is in the world,
that's their summertime, so itworked out that way.
(04:24):
But because of where Panama isin the world, that's their
summertime, so it worked outthat way.
Very unusual, so kind of newyear, new me mentality, and I
was really feeling like the Lordwas inviting me to something
new and it was just, you know,simple things like reminding me
of different women who I hadbeen in touch with over the
course of you know the pastseveral months, who I had been
(04:46):
in touch with over the course ofyou know the past several
months just women that I admired, women like Catholic women, who
had so much faith and weredoing so many incredible things
with the church.
And I think at that point too,it was not only like what was I
going to do career wise, butalso how do I, as a woman, serve
in the church?
And there was no tangible wayforward for me.
I couldn't see anything reallylike clean and clear, but it was
(05:08):
just like these things whereit's like he was reminding me of
women who inspired me.
He was calling to mind theseinterests that I had, both like
professionally and personally,and it was kind of coming
together in this interestingsoup of like okay, maybe
something with media for women,you know, something Catholic,
(05:29):
and that was really what it is,and it kind of you know, to use
the soup metaphor it really likesimmered on the stove for a bit
until I actually found myselfkind of in your corner of the
country, sheila.
I was in Ottawa at the time,visiting some friends, and I was
in front of the BlessedSacrament.
We had gone to an adorationchapel and it just kind of hit
(05:54):
right there where I really feltthe Lord inviting me to.
You know, like He's spoken tomany prophets and people in the
Bible.
And here he was just like Iwant you to do this, like this
thing that you'd been thinkingabout.
And I think over those monthsit was kind of simmering into
this podcast question mark and Iput it out there for the Lord
(06:16):
and he's like I want you to dothis.
And I told Him because I waslike really resistant at the
time too, even though it wassimmering in my heart.
It's like that weirdjuxtaposition of it was
simmering in my heart, there wassomething kind of coming and
bubbling, but once He offered itto me I was like no, I can't do
it.
And I was just like well, ifyou want me to do it, Lord, like
(06:36):
you're going to have to make itreally easy and really clear.
And this is the part where Ilike to tell people that the
Lord has like the greatestmarketing brain.
He's very good at search engineoptimization.
Because after we were at theAdoration Chapel and we went
back to my friend's place, Ijust casually looked up on I
think it was probably Googledomains at the time, google
(06:58):
domains and I just searched upfemininegeniuspodcastcom and it
was available.
Like no website existed.
I was just like you've got tobe kidding me.
So naturally, I did the onlyreasonable thing to do and I
bought it, and then the rest washistory.
So from there, you know, justkind of taking time to
(07:25):
brainstorm, you know, reachingout to different people, and it
had run, like I said, from 2019to 2022, over 100 women and just
a really fabulous time gettingto do stuff like this, like
having conversations, butultimately learning so much
about the way God moves and howhe speaks to each one of us and,
ultimately, the different waysin which we can serve the church
(07:47):
as a woman.
Sheila Nonato (07:50):
Awesome, and the term "feminine genius.
What does it mean to you?
Rachel Wong (07:56):
Yeah, it's a beautiful one and I remember
being really frustrated at firstthat Pope St John Paul II, in
his documents on women he neverreally outright comes out to
define the term.
But maybe it's for the best.
It really is.
In some senses it is what youmake of it, but I think at the
(08:16):
heart of it it really is justthe unique charisms and also the
struggles that a woman carriesin their life but also brings
into the world.
And we know that women havethis beautiful and innate
physical and also like emotionaland spiritual capacity to bear
life and bring forth life.
(08:36):
So really like the differentthings that make up who we are
as women both the quote-unquotegood and the quote-unquote bad
all of those things tiedtogether really make up our
feminine genius, because it's aunique combination of things
that only we have and it isthose things that inform the
(08:58):
ways in which we move in theworld and bring forth life in
the world.
So that's how I would definethe feminine genius and
ultimately what it means to me,because I've definitely seen how
that really has impacted my ownlife and my own story, which
continues to be written by theLord as we go forward.
Sheila Nonato (09:19):
So can you tell me what is the next chapter for
you?
You mentioned your podcast ranuntil 2022.
Are you going to see anotherrevival of it, or what's the new
chapter for you?
Rachel Wong (09:33):
Yeah, you know, if anybody knows, I would love that
direct line to God or anyspoilers, because the short
answer is I don't know.
The slightly longer answer isthat, thanks be to God, it's
still being written.
I would love to continue to dothings with media and within a
(10:00):
Catholic context, just becausethat really has been where my
heart has lived for the pastseveral years.
I spent some time indiscernment with the Daughters
of St.
Paul, so a congregation ofreligious women who serve the
church through media andproclaiming the gospel through
books and podcasts and socialmedia and all those wonderful
(10:22):
things, and that in itself wasan education and really a
formation, and hence why we callthat period of time when a
woman enters to the time a womanprofesses perpetual vows.
It's a time and season offormation and, in a sense, we
all are in different ways, indifferent kinds of formation,
(10:45):
like human formation, spiritualformation, just being able to
grow and learn more.
So you know, I discerned alittle bit with them and
realized that, okay, like that'snot where the Lord is calling
me.
So, yeah, again, like it's aslightly longer answer where I'm
just like I'm really unsure,but I certainly, like I tell
(11:05):
people and I also tell myselftoo that if the Lord ever were
to provide me with anopportunity to do you know what
you're doing, sheila like in adifferent context, in a
different medium, like I'd bereally open to it.
But I think, like,interestingly, I think the word
that I received for this year ishidden, and it's a lot of these
(11:26):
things, like you know, in somesense it's kind of stepping back
from public life, so to speak,but also a lot of things that
the Lord is doing in my liferight now are completely hidden
to me, and I think they usuallyare, but in a particular way
currently it just feels veryhidden, yeah, very mysterious,
(11:48):
and you know we're just tryingto go along with whatever it is
he's trying to unfold.
One of the priests in ourArchdiocese here in Vancouver.
He loves to talk about theadventure and the drama of life,
and I really feel like that'sexactly it right now, drama of
life and I really feel likethat's exactly it right now.
It's, you know, being able tojust hold on like very tightly
(12:08):
and see where the Lord is going.
You know, especially aftercoming out of formation, it's an
interesting time to acclimatizeback to life on the outside, so
to speak, but yeah, so noconcrete plans as of yet, but
certainly, as things unfold, I'meager and willing.
Whatever the Lord wants to do,I'm ready to do it.
Sheila Nonato (12:32):
That's awesome.
Yeah for myself.
I also had discerned religiouslife right after university, so
I stayed at a place calledStella Morris, a discernment
house for women yeah, I don'tknow if it's still open in
Toronto.
It was run by the MissionarySisters of the Precious Blood
and I had been volunteering withthe Missionaries of Charity as
(12:53):
a tutor in Toronto as well, andI spent an evening was it a
couple of days?
I forget now Either one or twodays in their house, amazing
women, and I commend you fordoing that because it's like you
said, it's an adventure, it's ajourney, and it can cause a
(13:14):
little bit of anxiety or fearbecause you don't know what
you're going into, but I trulycommend you as a young person I
hope you don't mind me callingyou a young person that you,
yeah, you decided to try it.
You decided to answer God'scall because, like you said, we
don't know what the next stepwill be until we try, and that's
(13:36):
truly amazing that you did that.
Rachel Wong (13:39):
Yeah, thank you yeah.
And I absolutely agree with you,like it's with so many things,
like whether it's likediscerning a particular vocation
, and I feel like that's reallybeen like the crux of it all is
(14:09):
just, you know, being able toovercome that like decision
paralysis, and then from thereit's like that anxiety or the
stress of, okay, but what if itdoesn't work out.
But the flip side is well, whatif it does?
And I have to remind myself ofthat time and time again.
And of course, even to take astep in any one direction, it's
(14:29):
not the forever step.
It's not like once you takethat step forward, you're
suddenly cemented in lead.
There are just so many choicesout there and what I've really
come to see is that's how theLord really moves in my life,
and I think it's true for manypeople.
(14:50):
It's just the particular waysof how he calls us, but
ultimately he does invite us ina direction.
He doesn't coerce us into aparticular direction.
Sheila Nonato (15:30):
And from there it's really up to us to explore
and to discern and listen,Listen well, of course and to
pray through it.
But I have to agree with you,it was truly a formative and
eye-opening experience that Idon't think I would be who I am
right now had I not gone throughthe time that I was with them
and even in the time leading upto it, like preparing for
actually moving and going thereand being with the sisters.
So yeah, that's amazing.
Can you tell me about yourguests on the podcast, memorable
guests over the years?
Rachel Wong (15:45):
Yeah, I mean like I think that you probably will
forgive me for saying this whereit's like you know they're all
my favorites and you know it'skind of like you know a mom to
their children, in a sense, um,just because of the fact that
they were all so different andand I think like that was really
the point was just to show likea wide range, um, but certainly
, um, you know, just just to notplay favorites, like I think
I'll be intentionally, like Iintentionally won't share names,
(16:09):
but certainly like what Ireally admired was just the fact
that there were so many peoplefrom all walks of life.
You know everything fromstay-at-home moms who were
running online ministries fromtheir living room, you know in
the midst of raising manychildren, which is, it's, mind
boggling to me, becausesometimes I feel like I can
barely do one task, let alonemany things, simultaneously.
(16:31):
So it's just wonderful, youknow, to high powered business
women.
You know chief executiveofficers or women who've started
their own business.
They're running their ownbusiness.
You know women who have been inreligious life for long periods
of time converts to theCatholic Church, and also, and I
(16:54):
would say, like you know, toyour question about, like some,
like standout or memorable ones,like I have to say, of course,
like they all were memorable intheir own way, of course, like
they all were memorable in theirown way.
But the stories in particularthat I really was drawn to and
really felt myself grow throughwere ones where women had
experienced, like exceptionaltrials, you know, things like
(17:19):
miscarriage, or like a death inthe family, or perhaps like a
crisis of discernment orvocation, if you will, and just
seeing how they were able toovercome, and by no means were
any of these things easy.
And I think a lot of these women, like they recognize that, like
they recognize that it was sucha hard fought battle, but to
(17:41):
see their faith get them throughthose tough times, even if at
the time, like they themselvesdidn't realize it.
But I think it's like it's.
It's such an interestingposition to be in as an
interviewer where you're able toin most cases you're hearing
this, these stories, in pasttense, so you get to see the
woman as they are right now,having endured the different
(18:04):
things that they have, like youknow, going through several
miscarriages or, um, you know,perhaps like they had lost a
loved one, um, there was one,one girl that comes to mind
right now who has, um, like ahearing disorder, so she's not
able, she's totally deaf in oneear, you know.
Or like one one who is legallyblind, and how she's able to
(18:24):
serve the church that way.
It's incredible to hear thedifferent ways that women have
been able to overcome, and ofcourse it's through their own
hard work, but ultimatelythrough the grace of God.
So it's just again, beautifulways of seeing how the Lord is
present and active andconstantly at work.
Sheila Nonato (18:45):
Amazing.
So I'm seeing sort of a themeof resilience and faith through
all the stories that you havebeen sharing, sort of sharing
these stories to help people, toempower people and to also help
them to see that you know we gothrough the cross but there's
(19:15):
also Resurrection after goingthrough the Cross.
Rachel Wong (19:19):
Yeah, I love that phrase.
So thank you for saying thatand I think so.
It's like certainly that waslike one of the big aspects of
it for me was certainly so.
It's like certainly that waslike one of the big aspects of
it for me was certainly it was,in many senses, like hoping to
just open the door to the factthat there are so many different
ways in which, like, we liveour lives and, as we know, like
life is not perfect and thereare going to be, like, the
(19:40):
thorny parts of it and there aregoing to be, like the thorny
parts of it and just how, likeeven there, like the Lord can
use that to help us grow, helpus mature, and how, like that
suffering can bear great fruit.
So I think that that certainlyis part of it.
The other part, or aspect of it,I think, is also just, you know
(20:02):
this, this was really um comingat a time when I was maybe
feeling a little discontentedwith um, just a woman's place in
in the church, you know, not tolike challenge, like you know,
for for me personally, it's likeI'm not looking to become an
ordained minister in the Church,like that's not it at all, but
just feeling like what can we dothen?
(20:24):
What are we able to do?
And kind of feeling a littlebit of maybe personally for me
and I can only speak for myselfit was a little bit of anxiety
about, okay, what am I going todo?
And just feeling like, am Icalled to emulate or be exactly
like this missionary that Ireally appreciate, or this good
(20:47):
friend of mine who is runninglike her own small Catholic
business?
But it doesn't feel like me.
So like, what am I supposed todo, since I'm not quite like
this person or that person?
I'm not ready to get marriedyet and at the time I wasn't
open to discerning religiouslife.
So, like, what is it?
And I think like, as time hasgone and I was able to interview
all of these women, it reallywas to show that, you know, it's
(21:11):
kind of that truth that we allknow where it's.
Like there is no one right wayand I use right in air quotes
there's no one right way to be aCatholic woman, and thanks be
to God for that, because he madeus each so unique and so
wonderfully different that Iknow that even for myself at the
(21:33):
time, like as a podcaster, Iknew that there were going to be
some people that you knowthanks be to God, they love the
show and they're able toresonate with the guests and
whatnot.
They're able to resonate withthe guests and whatnot.
And you know there might besome people out there who just
they don't vibe with me, theydon't like the show, and that's
okay too, and it's a wonderfulthing that there at the time,
(21:53):
there were so many of us like Iwas connected to so many other
female Catholic podcasters fromaround Canada and around the
United States and we built likea little community to support
one another.
And it was just wonderful tosee even that at work too,
because you know where I'm notable to catch all the fish, so
(22:14):
to speak, there's someone elseout there also fishing, right,
there's someone else out there,like also trying to catch,
because we're all trying to getpeople to the Lord.
And I think that that's one ofthe biggest things that you know
we really find like with likethe feminist movement is that at
(22:35):
times I really find that it'strying to pit people against one
another and as women, we'vealready had a very difficult
time trying to compete with men.
So when you add in likecompeting with other women in
there, it just makes it sotiresome and it really it kind
of defeats the purpose of whatwe're all trying to do.
So it's again like it's been areal gift and grace to be able
(22:57):
to collaborate with other womenand to see how they're thriving
and be able to support.
And of course, it's not to saythat there weren't moments in my
own heart where I really feltchallenged or even jealous, but
it was an opportunity for me toreally see the Lord at work
there and again, to use yourword resilience, just to see how
(23:19):
, when we are able to put asideour differences or even put
aside our ego and really enterin with humility, just how much
more we can achieve.
Because that's really like, Ithink, what our church needs
from women is to be able to, youknow, be that quiet, humble
presence in a sense.
Not like quiet, like don't talk,but in a sense like just be
(23:42):
present.
Quiet like don't talk, but in asense like just be present, be
open to people, be willing tospeak up when needed, to see
other people in the dignity thatGod has given them, um, and to
empower in big and small ways,like there are women who are
called to to speak up and speakout and there are other women
(24:02):
who are called to to maybe likebe like that, that prayerful,
silent witness, and all areimportant.
There are no two that are likeunimportant, right, like we are
all needed and necessary and um,I think like there's a lot of
like strength there, um,regardless of how we're called,
and um, even in the differentseasons in which we're called to
(24:23):
, because in a woman's life, aswe know like, and even in the
different seasons in which we'recalled to, because in a woman's
life, as we know like, thereare so many different seasons to
it and it's just being able tobe resilient and faithful, like
throughout.
awesome.
Sheila Nonato (24:44):
When you mentioned presence, I'm thinking
about I don't know if you knowLisa Canning.
She's, I think she's a mom of11.
Yeah, she was love her.
Yeah, she was talking about apodcast and how.
It's really a unique way ofmeetings that well, meeting
somebody or giving your voice tosomebody, and that they're in,
(25:07):
they're literally in your ear,you know, or the person you're
listening to is in your ear,like nobody else is that close
to you right yeah, it's likethey're there and they, you have
their, their attention.
And sometimes, when you know formyself, as a you know stay-at
at home mom who works part time,sometimes I'm with the kids
(25:27):
literally all day and listeningto an adult that's, you know,
not my husband that's the onlytime while cooking dinner,
listening right and hearing thestories, like having these
adventures while in my kitchendoing the dishes and and cooking
dinner, that's sort of a reallyspecial way of, I would say,
(25:50):
evangelizing, even if that's notwhat people mean to do, or
being even just present tosomebody who might not have the
physical presence of somebodythere, or maybe they're too shy
or too afraid to ask certainquestions, even to maybe their
priests.
Um, I feel like it's it'sopening sort of uh conversation
(26:15):
to topics that might not be,that might be taboo, let's say
even miscarriage, I would saynobody talked to me.
I have had two miscarriages.
They're two babies in heaven.
Yeah, nobody talked to me aboutit.
So you kind of feel alone.
And then when you hear somebody, let's say on social media, you
know there are all kinds ofways to waste time like I'm
talking about myself waste time,and but then there's this
(26:37):
special, unique purpose for goodthat you know people like you
have been using to help otherpeople and to connect other
people, and I think it's reallyamazing.
Is that what you set out to dowhen you started the podcast?
Rachel Wong (26:56):
I mean I think I would be lying if I said no.
So certainly there was a greatexpectation that there would be
something good.
I guess that comes out of it.
And of course it's like thereis, you know, the natural human
tendency of like, yeah, kind ofholding a certain amount of
(27:19):
influence.
But of course, as a Catholiccreator and entering into a
space that is so caught up withconsumption of time, of material
goods, of money, we have to bevery careful.
We have to be very careful,stewards of how we utilize the
(27:40):
tools and, of course, what we'reputting out there.
But you know, in all honesty,like I could have it, could have
never prepared me for what wasgoing to unfold, like over the
years that I ran the podcast,just because you know there are
people reaching out to me fromlike all corners of the world
and I was just like how, how areyou listening to me?
(28:03):
You know, and not realizing.
Of course it's like, well, duh,rachel, like there's a thing
called technology, ever heard ofit?
So you know, and but but like,in all seriousness, like it was
just a really incredible thingto see how quickly, like you
know, through the gift oftechnology, how quickly, like we
are able to connect with oneanother and through that I was
(28:25):
able to meet, you know, womenfrom all over Canada, the United
States, and and even interviewsome from, like, Australia and
the Philippines.
So, just like really being ableto just like grow a little
community.
And you know, again, like, justwith with every little bit of
growth let's just call it thatlike with every little bit of
(28:46):
growth, you know always havingto, you know, yeah, go back to
that main purpose of just whatam I trying to do here.
But ultimately, like, what isGod doing with all of this?
And it was really keeping akeen ear on you know how the
spirit is moving and who is heinviting me to reach out to.
(29:10):
And even like, if there weresome ideas that I had that just
they weren't coming to fruition,then you know really taking
that as a sign of like, okay,this is not for right now, and
that's fine, and let's gosomewhere else, let's do
something different.
And that really was even likethe move towards like winding
(29:31):
down the podcast.
Even it was just kind of seeingthat.
Okay, you know, not just likepersonal circumstances, but also
feeling like the work is neverdone, but perhaps it's like you
know, my time with it.
You know, for using thatanalogy of being a steward
rather than an owner, mystewardship of this podcast has
come to an end and that was areally hard thing for me to let
(29:55):
go of, just because it wassomething that I loved and I
think, as you know very well,it's a lot of work, but in the
midst of it I knew that it wasgood work and it was something
that I enjoyed.
And I love being able to connectwith women, not only to do the
podcast but also some of theother things that would come up
with it, like going to speak andum to do other, like podcasts,
(30:17):
uh, interviews and whatnot.
Um, just being able to, you know, at the heart of it, like
really share the Lord, um, andhow I've come to know about him
and and what it is that he'sdone in my life, um, and that
was like really, maybe thenumber one thing was to be able
to evangelize and proclaim thatway.
Um, so, you know, kind ofreceiving like the little ting
(30:41):
tingling, I guess, if you callit that from the Lord, to just
be like, okay, I think it's timeto pass on the reins to someone
else and that someone elsebeing.
You know other women likeyourself who were, you know,
starting new podcasts and newministries just being able to
make space and there's thatphrase again, like for us as
women, like we're called to makespace in so many different ways
(31:03):
.
And yeah, so it's like beingable to take that time and
really listen, and I'm gratefulfor the time that he has given
me to share a little bit ofinfluence.
And now it's a time perhaps forme to step back and to listen
to him and listen to other womenand see what else is going on.
Sheila Nonato (31:31):
Okay, awesome.
And and the last podcast I waslistening to of yours was the
episode on the face of mercy.
I don't know if you wanted tospeak on that, I just thought it
spoke to me because, yeah, Ihad myself gone through some
mental health struggles in thepast.
(31:52):
I was in the Middle East in my20s.
I did my first journalisminternship and I was covering
the hospitals after terroristattacks.
It was in Jordan many, manyyears ago, but yeah, so I
suffered from PTSD from that andI just, yeah, I think at that
time this was I don't know when,was that now Mid-2000s?
(32:15):
There wasn't really a lot ofmaterial or teachings on mental
health and faith.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
How far have we advanced sincethen?
Rachel Wong (32:29):
Yeah, I mean.
Well, first off, I just want tosay to like thank you for you
know, being like so willing andopen to share that, and also the
work that you did as ajournalist and continue to do as
a journalist.
I think it's very important tohave, like a Catholic voice,
whether you're working for aCatholic outlet or not.
So I just want to thank you andaffirm you for that, sheila, in
(32:51):
terms of like, yeah, mentalhealth and Catholicism, like
certainly for me, like it's alsoa very personal thing as well,
like I suffer from depressionand anxiety and had experienced
many years of suicidal ideationas well.
So it's something that I thinkfor a long period of my life, I
(33:15):
really felt the weight of havingto keep both sides of myself,
that being my Catholic self andalso the self that was really
struggling and suffering, apartand at bay and just not feeling
like, oh, I can't coexist in thesame body, so to speak.
And I agree with you that,especially in those moments
(33:42):
where I was and in that time ofmy life when I was going through
that, I really didn't knowwhere to turn to in terms of
being able to reconcile both ofthose.
So, when I think about where weare now, in 2024, I think that
certainly there's greateropenness to the fact that these
(34:06):
types of things exist andbecause we're Catholic, you know
, we're not immune to thosethings and I think that it's
very important to certainly,like, have that spiritual
foundation, like for our lives.
But that should not be the beall and end all and ultimately
we know and we trust that God isloving God and He'll take care
of us.
(34:26):
But there's also an invitation,I think, to really again, like
you know, be a good steward ofour body, of our physical health
and our mental health.
And the Lord has put in ourmidst many talented and gifted
people who are doctors, who are,you know, Catholic therapists,
Catholic psychologists.
You know, I go to apsychologist who, or excuse me,
(34:49):
a therapist.
I go to a therapist who is,like, a practicing Catholic, and
it's wonderful because we'reable to have that common ground
understanding where there arethings that certainly, like, are
just, you know, we just won'tgo there.
If it's, like you know, notCatholic, then we're just not
going to go there and he's notgoing to bring up any kind of
things that would contradict myfaith, because we have that
(35:13):
shared understanding.
So I think that at least, likein the Archdiocese of Vancouver,
I know that they've been verygood at providing like just
access to resources, providingjust access to resources,
particularly therapists orpsychologists or counselors who
do have a Catholic background,like they themselves are
practicing Catholic.
(35:33):
And certainly there are manyministries like, as you know,
the Face of Mercy and manyothers, a lot in the United
States I don't know too muchabout here in Canada, but
certainly there's a growingawareness and presence when it
comes to these kinds ofministries and I think, all with
the intention of really openingup the conversation and opening
(35:55):
up the conversation more,because certainly it's been
something that has grown ingreater awareness in the secular
environment.
So to have that slowly, thesecular environment, so to have
that slowly, slowly but steadilycome into the Catholic space is
, I think, very important, justbecause I think there is like a
natural tendency and I'veexperienced this as well where
(36:16):
it's like there's a naturaltendency, I think, to maybe
over-spiritualize or perhapslike tell ourselves, tell other
people, or maybe other peoplehave told us to just pray harder
or pray it away.
And I think that you know, aspeople who have gone through our
own struggles, like we know,that prayer, of course, is
(36:36):
important and it should be apart of our routine and it
should help.
But we can have other things tosupplement that, like, you know
, going to see a counselortalking to a friend about it
like a, yeah, trusted friend, um, you know, like changing our
habits so that we are living amore like well-rounded life.
(36:59):
So better sleeping habits,better eating habits, working
out, um, spending time withfriends, like whatever it might
be, all the things that we mightdub as self-care.
It's not like the things likeour faith and self-care, they're
not mutually exclusive.
So being able to balance all ofthat with the awareness and
(37:19):
intention of growing as childrenof the Lord.
So, yeah, I think just somekind of scattered thoughts on
that question there, butcertainly my hope and my
intention is that more and morepeople continue to talk about it
as they feel comfortable andthat they find spaces where they
(37:40):
feel comfortable.
And I think really that's thekey thing is finding those
spaces and places where they dofeel comfortable to open up.
Sheila Nonato (37:56):
Well, thank you for sharing that and for being
vulnerable and open.
See it as it's kind of like awound or a wound that nobody
sees.
It's like a wound on your heartor on your soul that people
it's an invisible wound thatthey don't see.
Sometimes they don't know whereto seek help.
(38:17):
And, of course, our faith isalways there.
God is always there and, as youwere saying, like for myself, I
also found a wonderful Catholictherapist who sometimes says to
me maybe it might do you somegood to go to adoration.
Now, if it was a non-Catholic, Iwould never hear that.
But yeah, like I was thinking,yes, that's so true.
(38:40):
Sometimes, like I was sayingearlier, we have to go through
the cross earlier.
We have to go through the crossand it's a tiny sliver of what
Christ obviously endured.
But just tiny taste of thatsuffering just made me more, I
(39:01):
guess, made me want to love more, because I needed so much love
from God.
But I also knew maybe he's alsocalling me to be more loving
from God.
But I also knew maybe he's alsocalling me to be more loving,
to be more open and also to beable to receive that love.
Yeah, it's a trying time andgoing through it alone is very
difficult and, as you weresaying, to reach out to trusted
(39:22):
professionals is, yeah, it'sgoing to help tremendously,
because suffering alone is, it'sa challenge.
And, yeah, I'd really encouragethe listeners if you're going
through something, please doreach out to you, to your doctor
, to a trusted healthprofessional, and that, yeah, I
just hope you receive the helpthat you need and that you
(39:44):
deserve absolutely.
Was there anything else that youwanted to talk about?
Rachel Wong (39:51):
No, I mean, I think that I'm grateful for our
conversation just because it hasreminded me of a lot of the
different ways that the Lord hasmoved in my own life, and I
think anytime that there's anopportunity to be able to pause
and reflect on what the Lorddoes is wonderful, just because
(40:13):
our lives move at such breakneckspeed that sometimes we forget
how it is that we got here,because we're just so focused on
getting ahead and getting tothe next thing.
So I'm so grateful for theopportunity to reflect and to
share today and again, just tobe with you, sheila.
So thank you.
Sheila Nonato (40:33):
Thank you so much .
I really appreciate your timeand your beautiful story and
your beautiful podcast.
I know you finished it, but I'mstill listening to it.
Rachel Wong (40:43):
And I'm still getting many praises from it.
Sheila Nonato (40:45):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing yourtalents because, like you were
saying, some people you knowwant to remain silent, and that
is fine, but you heard God'scall to speak up and share your
voice and your talents and yourknowledge.
And we are all benefiting fromthat, even now, even though the
podcast has ended, but it stillreally lives on.
(41:06):
So in the internet it, you know, it still continues.
So thank you so much for that.
Yeah, god bless, and I will bepraying for you and your next
chapter and I can't wait to see,to find out what that is, and
I'm sure you are too.
Rachel Wong (41:23):
Yeah, I was going to say it's like yeah, me too,
absolutely yeah, thank you somuch.
Thank you are too.
Sheila Nonato (41:26):
Yeah, I was going to say it's like, yeah, me too,
absolutely yeah, thank you somuch.
Thank you so much, god bless.
Thank you.
Thank you, god bless you, thankyou, bye.
Thank you very much for joiningus, Rachel Wong.
We learned so much from you andyour courageous adventure in
discernment and also thediscussion on the intersection
of faith and mental wellness andyour own journey in that.
Thank you for being so raw andhonest and open about that and
(41:49):
I'm sure it's going to helpothers.
And if you'd like to see whatshe's up to, you can catch her
on Instagram at RCHLCWNG.
I'll have that in the shownotes on Instagram and I believe
she's also on Substack (", soI'll have all that information
in the show notes.
And if you see me wearing thesame thing for the past three
(42:11):
episodes, for the intros andoutros, it's because I'm doing
batch recordings just time forschool.
You know, in time for school,motherhood you kind of have to
combine a lot of things at thesame time and this is the time
that I'm able to record andhopefully get these episodes
(42:32):
weekly out to you and hopefullythat will give you some
encouragement or help you insome way.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we will continue the
conversation on Feminine Geniuswith Sister Helena Burns.
Watch out for that one too.
Thank you so much, and Godbless.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armor podcast.
Co-Host (42:53):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic Mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
Thank you, enrich the lives of Catholic women, to
help them in living out ourvocation of raising the next
generation of leaders and saints.
Co-Host (00:27):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Sheila Nonato (00:36):
Welcome to Episode 16.
Today we speak with the host ofThe Feminine Genius podcast,
Rachel Wong, from Vancouver,British Columbia, and she had
this podcast for three amazingyears.
We talk about vocation,discerning a religious vocation,
and Rachel also talks candidlyabout her struggles with mental
(00:57):
health and dealing with mentalhealth, and also what is next
for Rachel.
Stay tuned.
Welcome to Rachel Wong, to Veiland Armour.
We are so happy to have youhere and so honored to have you
here.
Thank you, yeah, thanks forhaving me, sheila.
Thank you, and I usually juststart just saying the Hail Mary.
So, yeah, we'll just start withthat, if that's okay.
(01:19):
In the name of the Father andof the Son and of the Holy
Spirit, Amen, Amen, Hail Mary,Full of Grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Rachel Wong (01:32):
Blessed art thou amongst women, and Blessed is
the fruit of thy womb, JesusHoly.
Sheila Nonato (01:37):
Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners now and
at the hour of our death.
Amen, in the name of the Fatherand of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit, Amen.
I'd like to introduce you toour guest.
Rachel Wong is a Catholicwriter and speaker based in
Vancouver, Canada.
She's formerly the host of TheFeminine Genius Podcast, a
podcast that celebrates thediversity of Catholic femininity
, one woman's story at a time.
She loves storytelling,connecting with others over good
(01:59):
food and conversation, andadventuring with the Lord.
Thank you, Rachel, welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you, yeah, so great to behere and touring with the Lord.
Rachel Wong (02:05):
Thank you, Rachel, welcome.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, so great to be here andto be with you.
Sheila Nonato (02:09):
So yeah, I've been listening to your podcast.
Amazing, amazing work, and canyou tell us how did it start.
Rachel Wong (02:15):
t, and I have to say too, it's been a while since
I've actually told the storyand I think, just as some
context for your listeners aswell, The Feminine Genius
podcast had run from 2019 toabout 2022.
So here we are recording in2024.
So it's interesting, I think,to talk about it in the past
(02:36):
tense, because it's stillsomething that folks can, of
course, listen to, but it's notlive like there are no new
episodes coming out, not livelike there are no new episodes
coming out.
But I think the long and shortof it is that I, in 2019, I'd
gone to World Youth Day and thatyear it was hosted in Panama
and I you know it was my firsttime like being that far away
(02:58):
from home, without family, and Iwent with Catholic Christian
Outreach on a mission trip andit was a beautiful experience.
You know everybody talks aboutWorld Youth Day and being like
this kind of pivotal moment fora lot of Catholic young adults,
and certainly it was nodifferent for me like very
impactful, getting to see PopeFrancis and just being with, you
know, hundreds, millions of,like hundreds of thousands and
(03:20):
millions of Catholics fromaround the world and just seeing
everybody praising the Lord inthat way and I remember, just
like even going into thatmission, that pilgrimage, really
feeling a sense of, I guess,like, maybe like frustration
with my own life.
I was kind of at that point inmy university degree where
(03:41):
things were starting to come toan end with my time in school
and I thought I knew what I wasgoing to do with my life.
But I wasn't so sure and I hadbeen an avid listener of
podcasts up until that point andI was studying communications,
I wanted to do something withmedia but, yeah, things weren't
(04:03):
really lining up, so let's justput it that way.
So fast forward to World YouthDay, and I really got a sense
that the Lord was inviting me tosomething big.
And that year World Youth Daywas also held in January, which
is very unusual, but because ofwhere Panama is in the world,
that's their summertime, so itworked out that way.
(04:24):
But because of where Panama isin the world, that's their
summertime, so it worked outthat way.
Very unusual, so kind of newyear, new me mentality, and I
was really feeling like the Lordwas inviting me to something
new and it was just, you know,simple things like reminding me
of different women who I hadbeen in touch with over the
course of you know the pastseveral months, who I had been
(04:46):
in touch with over the course ofyou know the past several
months just women that I admired, women like Catholic women, who
had so much faith and weredoing so many incredible things
with the church.
And I think at that point too,it was not only like what was I
going to do career wise, butalso how do I, as a woman, serve
in the church?
And there was no tangible wayforward for me.
I couldn't see anything reallylike clean and clear, but it was
(05:08):
just like these things whereit's like he was reminding me of
women who inspired me.
He was calling to mind theseinterests that I had, both like
professionally and personally,and it was kind of coming
together in this interestingsoup of like okay, maybe
something with media for women,you know, something Catholic,
(05:29):
and that was really what it is,and it kind of you know, to use
the soup metaphor it really likesimmered on the stove for a bit
until I actually found myselfkind of in your corner of the
country, sheila.
I was in Ottawa at the time,visiting some friends, and I was
in front of the BlessedSacrament.
We had gone to an adorationchapel and it just kind of hit
(05:54):
right there where I really feltthe Lord inviting me to.
You know, like He's spoken tomany prophets and people in the
Bible.
And here he was just like Iwant you to do this, like this
thing that you'd been thinkingabout.
And I think over those monthsit was kind of simmering into
this podcast question mark and Iput it out there for the Lord
(06:16):
and he's like I want you to dothis.
And I told Him because I waslike really resistant at the
time too, even though it wassimmering in my heart.
It's like that weirdjuxtaposition of it was
simmering in my heart, there wassomething kind of coming and
bubbling, but once He offered itto me I was like no, I can't do
it.
And I was just like well, ifyou want me to do it, Lord, like
(06:36):
you're going to have to make itreally easy and really clear.
And this is the part where Ilike to tell people that the
Lord has like the greatestmarketing brain.
He's very good at search engineoptimization.
Because after we were at theAdoration Chapel and we went
back to my friend's place, Ijust casually looked up on I
think it was probably Googledomains at the time, google
(06:58):
domains and I just searched upfemininegeniuspodcastcom and it
was available.
Like no website existed.
I was just like you've got tobe kidding me.
So naturally, I did the onlyreasonable thing to do and I
bought it, and then the rest washistory.
So from there, you know, justkind of taking time to
(07:25):
brainstorm, you know, reachingout to different people, and it
had run, like I said, from 2019to 2022, over 100 women and just
a really fabulous time gettingto do stuff like this, like
having conversations, butultimately learning so much
about the way God moves and howhe speaks to each one of us and,
ultimately, the different waysin which we can serve the church
(07:47):
as a woman.
Sheila Nonato (07:50):
Awesome, and the term "feminine genius.
What does it mean to you?
Rachel Wong (07:56):
Yeah, it's a beautiful one and I remember
being really frustrated at firstthat Pope St John Paul II, in
his documents on women he neverreally outright comes out to
define the term.
But maybe it's for the best.
It really is.
In some senses it is what youmake of it, but I think at the
(08:16):
heart of it it really is justthe unique charisms and also the
struggles that a woman carriesin their life but also brings
into the world.
And we know that women havethis beautiful and innate
physical and also like emotionaland spiritual capacity to bear
life and bring forth life.
(08:36):
So really like the differentthings that make up who we are
as women both the quote-unquotegood and the quote-unquote bad
all of those things tiedtogether really make up our
feminine genius, because it's aunique combination of things
that only we have and it isthose things that inform the
(08:58):
ways in which we move in theworld and bring forth life in
the world.
So that's how I would definethe feminine genius and
ultimately what it means to me,because I've definitely seen how
that really has impacted my ownlife and my own story, which
continues to be written by theLord as we go forward.
Sheila Nonato (09:19):
So can you tell me what is the next chapter for
you?
You mentioned your podcast ranuntil 2022.
Are you going to see anotherrevival of it, or what's the new
chapter for you?
Rachel Wong (09:33):
Yeah, you know, if anybody knows, I would love that
direct line to God or anyspoilers, because the short
answer is I don't know.
The slightly longer answer isthat, thanks be to God, it's
still being written.
I would love to continue to dothings with media and within a
(10:00):
Catholic context, just becausethat really has been where my
heart has lived for the pastseveral years.
I spent some time indiscernment with the Daughters
of St.
Paul, so a congregation ofreligious women who serve the
church through media andproclaiming the gospel through
books and podcasts and socialmedia and all those wonderful
(10:22):
things, and that in itself wasan education and really a
formation, and hence why we callthat period of time when a
woman enters to the time a womanprofesses perpetual vows.
It's a time and season offormation and, in a sense, we
all are in different ways, indifferent kinds of formation,
(10:45):
like human formation, spiritualformation, just being able to
grow and learn more.
So you know, I discerned alittle bit with them and
realized that, okay, like that'snot where the Lord is calling
me.
So, yeah, again, like it's aslightly longer answer where I'm
just like I'm really unsure,but I certainly, like I tell
(11:05):
people and I also tell myselftoo that if the Lord ever were
to provide me with anopportunity to do you know what
you're doing, sheila like in adifferent context, in a
different medium, like I'd bereally open to it.
But I think, like,interestingly, I think the word
that I received for this year ishidden, and it's a lot of these
(11:26):
things, like you know, in somesense it's kind of stepping back
from public life, so to speak,but also a lot of things that
the Lord is doing in my liferight now are completely hidden
to me, and I think they usuallyare, but in a particular way
currently it just feels veryhidden, yeah, very mysterious,
(11:48):
and you know we're just tryingto go along with whatever it is
he's trying to unfold.
One of the priests in ourArchdiocese here in Vancouver.
He loves to talk about theadventure and the drama of life,
and I really feel like that'sexactly it right now, drama of
life and I really feel likethat's exactly it right now.
It's, you know, being able tojust hold on like very tightly
(12:08):
and see where the Lord is going.
You know, especially aftercoming out of formation, it's an
interesting time to acclimatizeback to life on the outside, so
to speak, but yeah, so noconcrete plans as of yet, but
certainly, as things unfold, I'meager and willing.
Whatever the Lord wants to do,I'm ready to do it.
Sheila Nonato (12:32):
That's awesome.
Yeah for myself.
I also had discerned religiouslife right after university, so
I stayed at a place calledStella Morris, a discernment
house for women yeah, I don'tknow if it's still open in
Toronto.
It was run by the MissionarySisters of the Precious Blood
and I had been volunteering withthe Missionaries of Charity as
(12:53):
a tutor in Toronto as well, andI spent an evening was it a
couple of days?
I forget now Either one or twodays in their house, amazing
women, and I commend you fordoing that because it's like you
said, it's an adventure, it's ajourney, and it can cause a
(13:14):
little bit of anxiety or fearbecause you don't know what
you're going into, but I trulycommend you as a young person I
hope you don't mind me callingyou a young person that you,
yeah, you decided to try it.
You decided to answer God'scall because, like you said, we
don't know what the next stepwill be until we try, and that's
(13:36):
truly amazing that you did that.
Rachel Wong (13:39):
Yeah, thank you yeah.
And I absolutely agree with you,like it's with so many things,
like whether it's likediscerning a particular vocation
, and I feel like that's reallybeen like the crux of it all is
(14:09):
just, you know, being able toovercome that like decision
paralysis, and then from thereit's like that anxiety or the
stress of, okay, but what if itdoesn't work out.
But the flip side is well, whatif it does?
And I have to remind myself ofthat time and time again.
And of course, even to take astep in any one direction, it's
(14:29):
not the forever step.
It's not like once you takethat step forward, you're
suddenly cemented in lead.
There are just so many choicesout there and what I've really
come to see is that's how theLord really moves in my life,
and I think it's true for manypeople.
(14:50):
It's just the particular waysof how he calls us, but
ultimately he does invite us ina direction.
He doesn't coerce us into aparticular direction.
Sheila Nonato (15:30):
And from there it's really up to us to explore
and to discern and listen,Listen well, of course and to
pray through it.
But I have to agree with you,it was truly a formative and
eye-opening experience that Idon't think I would be who I am
right now had I not gone throughthe time that I was with them
and even in the time leading upto it, like preparing for
actually moving and going thereand being with the sisters.
So yeah, that's amazing.
Can you tell me about yourguests on the podcast, memorable
guests over the years?
Rachel Wong (15:45):
Yeah, I mean like I think that you probably will
forgive me for saying this whereit's like you know they're all
my favorites and you know it'skind of like you know a mom to
their children, in a sense, um,just because of the fact that
they were all so different andand I think like that was really
the point was just to show likea wide range, um, but certainly
, um, you know, just just to notplay favorites, like I think
I'll be intentionally, like Iintentionally won't share names,
(16:09):
but certainly like what Ireally admired was just the fact
that there were so many peoplefrom all walks of life.
You know everything fromstay-at-home moms who were
running online ministries fromtheir living room, you know in
the midst of raising manychildren, which is, it's, mind
boggling to me, becausesometimes I feel like I can
barely do one task, let alonemany things, simultaneously.
(16:31):
So it's just wonderful, youknow, to high powered business
women.
You know chief executiveofficers or women who've started
their own business.
They're running their ownbusiness.
You know women who have been inreligious life for long periods
of time converts to theCatholic Church, and also, and I
(16:54):
would say, like you know, toyour question about, like some,
like standout or memorable ones,like I have to say, of course,
like they all were memorable intheir own way, of course, like
they all were memorable in theirown way.
But the stories in particularthat I really was drawn to and
really felt myself grow throughwere ones where women had
experienced, like exceptionaltrials, you know, things like
(17:19):
miscarriage, or like a death inthe family, or perhaps like a
crisis of discernment orvocation, if you will, and just
seeing how they were able toovercome, and by no means were
any of these things easy.
And I think a lot of these women, like they recognize that, like
they recognize that it was sucha hard fought battle, but to
(17:41):
see their faith get them throughthose tough times, even if at
the time, like they themselvesdidn't realize it.
But I think it's like it's.
It's such an interestingposition to be in as an
interviewer where you're able toin most cases you're hearing
this, these stories, in pasttense, so you get to see the
woman as they are right now,having endured the different
(18:04):
things that they have, like youknow, going through several
miscarriages or, um, you know,perhaps like they had lost a
loved one, um, there was one,one girl that comes to mind
right now who has, um, like ahearing disorder, so she's not
able, she's totally deaf in oneear, you know.
Or like one one who is legallyblind, and how she's able to
(18:24):
serve the church that way.
It's incredible to hear thedifferent ways that women have
been able to overcome, and ofcourse it's through their own
hard work, but ultimatelythrough the grace of God.
So it's just again, beautifulways of seeing how the Lord is
present and active andconstantly at work.
Sheila Nonato (18:45):
Amazing.
So I'm seeing sort of a themeof resilience and faith through
all the stories that you havebeen sharing, sort of sharing
these stories to help people, toempower people and to also help
them to see that you know we gothrough the cross but there's
(19:15):
also Resurrection after goingthrough the Cross.
Rachel Wong (19:19):
Yeah, I love that phrase.
So thank you for saying thatand I think so.
It's like certainly that waslike one of the big aspects of
it for me was certainly so.
It's like certainly that waslike one of the big aspects of
it for me was certainly it was,in many senses, like hoping to
just open the door to the factthat there are so many different
ways in which, like, we liveour lives and, as we know, like
life is not perfect and thereare going to be, like, the
(19:40):
thorny parts of it and there aregoing to be, like the thorny
parts of it and just how, likeeven there, like the Lord can
use that to help us grow, helpus mature, and how, like that
suffering can bear great fruit.
So I think that that certainlyis part of it.
The other part, or aspect of it,I think, is also just, you know
(20:02):
this, this was really um comingat a time when I was maybe
feeling a little discontentedwith um, just a woman's place in
in the church, you know, not tolike challenge, like you know,
for for me personally, it's likeI'm not looking to become an
ordained minister in the Church,like that's not it at all, but
just feeling like what can we dothen?
(20:24):
What are we able to do?
And kind of feeling a littlebit of maybe personally for me
and I can only speak for myselfit was a little bit of anxiety
about, okay, what am I going todo?
And just feeling like, am Icalled to emulate or be exactly
like this missionary that Ireally appreciate, or this good
(20:47):
friend of mine who is runninglike her own small Catholic
business?
But it doesn't feel like me.
So like, what am I supposed todo, since I'm not quite like
this person or that person?
I'm not ready to get marriedyet and at the time I wasn't
open to discerning religiouslife.
So, like, what is it?
And I think like, as time hasgone and I was able to interview
all of these women, it reallywas to show that, you know, it's
(21:11):
kind of that truth that we allknow where it's.
Like there is no one right wayand I use right in air quotes
there's no one right way to be aCatholic woman, and thanks be
to God for that, because he madeus each so unique and so
wonderfully different that Iknow that even for myself at the
(21:33):
time, like as a podcaster, Iknew that there were going to be
some people that you knowthanks be to God, they love the
show and they're able toresonate with the guests and
whatnot.
They're able to resonate withthe guests and whatnot.
And you know there might besome people out there who just
they don't vibe with me, theydon't like the show, and that's
okay too, and it's a wonderfulthing that there at the time,
(21:53):
there were so many of us like Iwas connected to so many other
female Catholic podcasters fromaround Canada and around the
United States and we built likea little community to support
one another.
And it was just wonderful tosee even that at work too,
because you know where I'm notable to catch all the fish, so
(22:14):
to speak, there's someone elseout there also fishing, right,
there's someone else out there,like also trying to catch,
because we're all trying to getpeople to the Lord.
And I think that that's one ofthe biggest things that you know
we really find like with likethe feminist movement is that at
(22:35):
times I really find that it'strying to pit people against one
another and as women, we'vealready had a very difficult
time trying to compete with men.
So when you add in likecompeting with other women in
there, it just makes it sotiresome and it really it kind
of defeats the purpose of whatwe're all trying to do.
So it's again like it's been areal gift and grace to be able
(22:57):
to collaborate with other womenand to see how they're thriving
and be able to support.
And of course, it's not to saythat there weren't moments in my
own heart where I really feltchallenged or even jealous, but
it was an opportunity for me toreally see the Lord at work
there and again, to use yourword resilience, just to see how
(23:19):
, when we are able to put asideour differences or even put
aside our ego and really enterin with humility, just how much
more we can achieve.
Because that's really like, Ithink, what our church needs
from women is to be able to, youknow, be that quiet, humble
presence in a sense.
Not like quiet, like don't talk,but in a sense like just be
(23:42):
present.
Quiet like don't talk, but in asense like just be present, be
open to people, be willing tospeak up when needed, to see
other people in the dignity thatGod has given them, um, and to
empower in big and small ways,like there are women who are
called to to speak up and speakout and there are other women
(24:02):
who are called to to maybe likebe like that, that prayerful,
silent witness, and all areimportant.
There are no two that are likeunimportant, right, like we are
all needed and necessary and um,I think like there's a lot of
like strength there, um,regardless of how we're called,
and um, even in the differentseasons in which we're called to
(24:23):
, because in a woman's life, aswe know like, and even in the
different seasons in which we'recalled to, because in a woman's
life, as we know like, thereare so many different seasons to
it and it's just being able tobe resilient and faithful, like
throughout.
awesome.
Sheila Nonato (24:44):
When you mentioned presence, I'm thinking
about I don't know if you knowLisa Canning.
She's, I think she's a mom of11.
Yeah, she was love her.
Yeah, she was talking about apodcast and how.
It's really a unique way ofmeetings that well, meeting
somebody or giving your voice tosomebody, and that they're in,
(25:07):
they're literally in your ear,you know, or the person you're
listening to is in your ear,like nobody else is that close
to you right yeah, it's likethey're there and they, you have
their, their attention.
And sometimes, when you know formyself, as a you know stay-at
at home mom who works part time,sometimes I'm with the kids
(25:27):
literally all day and listeningto an adult that's, you know,
not my husband that's the onlytime while cooking dinner,
listening right and hearing thestories, like having these
adventures while in my kitchendoing the dishes and and cooking
dinner, that's sort of a reallyspecial way of, I would say,
(25:50):
evangelizing, even if that's notwhat people mean to do, or
being even just present tosomebody who might not have the
physical presence of somebodythere, or maybe they're too shy
or too afraid to ask certainquestions, even to maybe their
priests.
Um, I feel like it's it'sopening sort of uh conversation
(26:15):
to topics that might not be,that might be taboo, let's say
even miscarriage, I would saynobody talked to me.
I have had two miscarriages.
They're two babies in heaven.
Yeah, nobody talked to me aboutit.
So you kind of feel alone.
And then when you hear somebody, let's say on social media, you
know there are all kinds ofways to waste time like I'm
talking about myself waste time,and but then there's this
(26:37):
special, unique purpose for goodthat you know people like you
have been using to help otherpeople and to connect other
people, and I think it's reallyamazing.
Is that what you set out to dowhen you started the podcast?
Rachel Wong (26:56):
I mean I think I would be lying if I said no.
So certainly there was a greatexpectation that there would be
something good.
I guess that comes out of it.
And of course it's like thereis, you know, the natural human
tendency of like, yeah, kind ofholding a certain amount of
(27:19):
influence.
But of course, as a Catholiccreator and entering into a
space that is so caught up withconsumption of time, of material
goods, of money, we have to bevery careful.
We have to be very careful,stewards of how we utilize the
(27:40):
tools and, of course, what we'reputting out there.
But you know, in all honesty,like I could have it, could have
never prepared me for what wasgoing to unfold, like over the
years that I ran the podcast,just because you know there are
people reaching out to me fromlike all corners of the world
and I was just like how, how areyou listening to me?
(28:03):
You know, and not realizing.
Of course it's like, well, duh,rachel, like there's a thing
called technology, ever heard ofit?
So you know, and but but like,in all seriousness, like it was
just a really incredible thingto see how quickly, like you
know, through the gift oftechnology, how quickly, like we
are able to connect with oneanother and through that I was
(28:25):
able to meet, you know, womenfrom all over Canada, the United
States, and and even interviewsome from, like, Australia and
the Philippines.
So, just like really being ableto just like grow a little
community.
And you know, again, like, justwith with every little bit of
growth let's just call it thatlike with every little bit of
(28:46):
growth, you know always havingto, you know, yeah, go back to
that main purpose of just whatam I trying to do here.
But ultimately, like, what isGod doing with all of this?
And it was really keeping akeen ear on you know how the
spirit is moving and who is heinviting me to reach out to.
(29:10):
And even like, if there weresome ideas that I had that just
they weren't coming to fruition,then you know really taking
that as a sign of like, okay,this is not for right now, and
that's fine, and let's gosomewhere else, let's do
something different.
And that really was even likethe move towards like winding
(29:31):
down the podcast.
Even it was just kind of seeingthat.
Okay, you know, not just likepersonal circumstances, but also
feeling like the work is neverdone, but perhaps it's like you
know, my time with it.
You know, for using thatanalogy of being a steward
rather than an owner, mystewardship of this podcast has
come to an end and that was areally hard thing for me to let
(29:55):
go of, just because it wassomething that I loved and I
think, as you know very well,it's a lot of work, but in the
midst of it I knew that it wasgood work and it was something
that I enjoyed.
And I love being able to connectwith women, not only to do the
podcast but also some of theother things that would come up
with it, like going to speak andum to do other, like podcasts,
(30:17):
uh, interviews and whatnot.
Um, just being able to, you know, at the heart of it, like
really share the Lord, um, andhow I've come to know about him
and and what it is that he'sdone in my life, um, and that
was like really, maybe thenumber one thing was to be able
to evangelize and proclaim thatway.
Um, so, you know, kind ofreceiving like the little ting
(30:41):
tingling, I guess, if you callit that from the Lord, to just
be like, okay, I think it's timeto pass on the reins to someone
else and that someone elsebeing.
You know other women likeyourself who were, you know,
starting new podcasts and newministries just being able to
make space and there's thatphrase again, like for us as
women, like we're called to makespace in so many different ways
(31:03):
.
And yeah, so it's like beingable to take that time and
really listen, and I'm gratefulfor the time that he has given
me to share a little bit ofinfluence.
And now it's a time perhaps forme to step back and to listen
to him and listen to other womenand see what else is going on.
Sheila Nonato (31:31):
Okay, awesome.
And and the last podcast I waslistening to of yours was the
episode on the face of mercy.
I don't know if you wanted tospeak on that, I just thought it
spoke to me because, yeah, Ihad myself gone through some
mental health struggles in thepast.
(31:52):
I was in the Middle East in my20s.
I did my first journalisminternship and I was covering
the hospitals after terroristattacks.
It was in Jordan many, manyyears ago, but yeah, so I
suffered from PTSD from that andI just, yeah, I think at that
time this was I don't know when,was that now Mid-2000s?
(32:15):
There wasn't really a lot ofmaterial or teachings on mental
health and faith.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
How far have we advanced sincethen?
Rachel Wong (32:29):
Yeah, I mean.
Well, first off, I just want tosay to like thank you for you
know, being like so willing andopen to share that, and also the
work that you did as ajournalist and continue to do as
a journalist.
I think it's very important tohave, like a Catholic voice,
whether you're working for aCatholic outlet or not.
So I just want to thank you andaffirm you for that, sheila, in
(32:51):
terms of like, yeah, mentalhealth and Catholicism, like
certainly for me, like it's alsoa very personal thing as well,
like I suffer from depressionand anxiety and had experienced
many years of suicidal ideationas well.
So it's something that I thinkfor a long period of my life, I
(33:15):
really felt the weight of havingto keep both sides of myself,
that being my Catholic self andalso the self that was really
struggling and suffering, apartand at bay and just not feeling
like, oh, I can't coexist in thesame body, so to speak.
And I agree with you that,especially in those moments
(33:42):
where I was and in that time ofmy life when I was going through
that, I really didn't knowwhere to turn to in terms of
being able to reconcile both ofthose.
So, when I think about where weare now, in 2024, I think that
certainly there's greateropenness to the fact that these
(34:06):
types of things exist andbecause we're Catholic, you know
, we're not immune to thosethings and I think that it's
very important to certainly,like, have that spiritual
foundation, like for our lives.
But that should not be the beall and end all and ultimately
we know and we trust that God isloving God and He'll take care
of us.
(34:26):
But there's also an invitation,I think, to really again, like
you know, be a good steward ofour body, of our physical health
and our mental health.
And the Lord has put in ourmidst many talented and gifted
people who are doctors, who are,you know, Catholic therapists,
Catholic psychologists.
You know, I go to apsychologist who, or excuse me,
(34:49):
a therapist.
I go to a therapist who is,like, a practicing Catholic, and
it's wonderful because we'reable to have that common ground
understanding where there arethings that certainly, like, are
just, you know, we just won'tgo there.
If it's, like you know, notCatholic, then we're just not
going to go there and he's notgoing to bring up any kind of
things that would contradict myfaith, because we have that
(35:13):
shared understanding.
So I think that at least, likein the Archdiocese of Vancouver,
I know that they've been verygood at providing like just
access to resources, providingjust access to resources,
particularly therapists orpsychologists or counselors who
do have a Catholic background,like they themselves are
practicing Catholic.
(35:33):
And certainly there are manyministries like, as you know,
the Face of Mercy and manyothers, a lot in the United
States I don't know too muchabout here in Canada, but
certainly there's a growingawareness and presence when it
comes to these kinds ofministries and I think, all with
the intention of really openingup the conversation and opening
(35:55):
up the conversation more,because certainly it's been
something that has grown ingreater awareness in the secular
environment.
So to have that slowly, thesecular environment, so to have
that slowly, slowly but steadilycome into the Catholic space is
, I think, very important, justbecause I think there is like a
natural tendency and I'veexperienced this as well where
(36:16):
it's like there's a naturaltendency, I think, to maybe
over-spiritualize or perhapslike tell ourselves, tell other
people, or maybe other peoplehave told us to just pray harder
or pray it away.
And I think that you know, aspeople who have gone through our
own struggles, like we know,that prayer, of course, is
(36:36):
important and it should be apart of our routine and it
should help.
But we can have other things tosupplement that, like, you know
, going to see a counselortalking to a friend about it
like a, yeah, trusted friend, um, you know, like changing our
habits so that we are living amore like well-rounded life.
(36:59):
So better sleeping habits,better eating habits, working
out, um, spending time withfriends, like whatever it might
be, all the things that we mightdub as self-care.
It's not like the things likeour faith and self-care, they're
not mutually exclusive.
So being able to balance all ofthat with the awareness and
(37:19):
intention of growing as childrenof the Lord.
So, yeah, I think just somekind of scattered thoughts on
that question there, butcertainly my hope and my
intention is that more and morepeople continue to talk about it
as they feel comfortable andthat they find spaces where they
(37:40):
feel comfortable.
And I think really that's thekey thing is finding those
spaces and places where they dofeel comfortable to open up.
Sheila Nonato (37:56):
Well, thank you for sharing that and for being
vulnerable and open.
See it as it's kind of like awound or a wound that nobody
sees.
It's like a wound on your heartor on your soul that people
it's an invisible wound thatthey don't see.
Sometimes they don't know whereto seek help.
(38:17):
And, of course, our faith isalways there.
God is always there and, as youwere saying, like for myself, I
also found a wonderful Catholictherapist who sometimes says to
me maybe it might do you somegood to go to adoration.
Now, if it was a non-Catholic, Iwould never hear that.
But yeah, like I was thinking,yes, that's so true.
(38:40):
Sometimes, like I was sayingearlier, we have to go through
the cross earlier.
We have to go through the crossand it's a tiny sliver of what
Christ obviously endured.
But just tiny taste of thatsuffering just made me more, I
(39:01):
guess, made me want to love more, because I needed so much love
from God.
But I also knew maybe he's alsocalling me to be more loving
from God.
But I also knew maybe he's alsocalling me to be more loving,
to be more open and also to beable to receive that love.
Yeah, it's a trying time andgoing through it alone is very
difficult and, as you weresaying, to reach out to trusted
(39:22):
professionals is, yeah, it'sgoing to help tremendously,
because suffering alone is, it'sa challenge.
And, yeah, I'd really encouragethe listeners if you're going
through something, please doreach out to you, to your doctor
, to a trusted healthprofessional, and that, yeah, I
just hope you receive the helpthat you need and that you
(39:44):
deserve absolutely.
Was there anything else that youwanted to talk about?
Rachel Wong (39:51):
No, I mean, I think that I'm grateful for our
conversation just because it hasreminded me of a lot of the
different ways that the Lord hasmoved in my own life, and I
think anytime that there's anopportunity to be able to pause
and reflect on what the Lorddoes is wonderful, just because
(40:13):
our lives move at such breakneckspeed that sometimes we forget
how it is that we got here,because we're just so focused on
getting ahead and getting tothe next thing.
So I'm so grateful for theopportunity to reflect and to
share today and again, just tobe with you, sheila.
So thank you.
Sheila Nonato (40:33):
Thank you so much .
I really appreciate your timeand your beautiful story and
your beautiful podcast.
I know you finished it, but I'mstill listening to it.
Rachel Wong (40:43):
And I'm still getting many praises from it.
Sheila Nonato (40:45):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing yourtalents because, like you were
saying, some people you knowwant to remain silent, and that
is fine, but you heard God'scall to speak up and share your
voice and your talents and yourknowledge.
And we are all benefiting fromthat, even now, even though the
podcast has ended, but it stillreally lives on.
(41:06):
So in the internet it, you know, it still continues.
So thank you so much for that.
Yeah, god bless, and I will bepraying for you and your next
chapter and I can't wait to see,to find out what that is, and
I'm sure you are too.
Rachel Wong (41:23):
Yeah, I was going to say it's like yeah, me too,
absolutely yeah, thank you somuch.
Thank you are too.
Sheila Nonato (41:26):
Yeah, I was going to say it's like, yeah, me too,
absolutely yeah, thank you somuch.
Thank you so much, god bless.
Thank you.
Thank you, god bless you, thankyou, bye.
Thank you very much for joiningus, Rachel Wong.
We learned so much from you andyour courageous adventure in
discernment and also thediscussion on the intersection
of faith and mental wellness andyour own journey in that.
Thank you for being so raw andhonest and open about that and
(41:49):
I'm sure it's going to helpothers.
And if you'd like to see whatshe's up to, you can catch her
on Instagram at RCHLCWNG.
I'll have that in the shownotes on Instagram and I believe
she's also on Substack (", soI'll have all that information
in the show notes.
And if you see me wearing thesame thing for the past three
(42:11):
episodes, for the intros andoutros, it's because I'm doing
batch recordings just time forschool.
You know, in time for school,motherhood you kind of have to
combine a lot of things at thesame time and this is the time
that I'm able to record andhopefully get these episodes
(42:32):
weekly out to you and hopefullythat will give you some
encouragement or help you insome way.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we will continue the
conversation on Feminine Geniuswith Sister Helena Burns.
Watch out for that one too.
Thank you so much, and Godbless.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armor podcast.
Co-Host (42:53):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic Mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
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