May 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Faith journeys often reveal themselves in unexpected moments of clarity. For Tammy Peterson, this clarity came during a poignant Good Friday service when she approached Christ's crucifix with tears streaming down her face. "I could see Christ was hurting every time I sinned," she shares, connecting this revelation to a profound experience she had in St. John's cave in Patmos, Greece, years earlier.
On the anniversary of her confirmation in the Catholic Church, Peterson reflects on her deepening spiritual journey with remarkable candor. The conversation weaves through Biblical women's roles, drawing stark contrasts between the choice today: The Virgin Mary and the Whore of Babylon. "Women are being commodified in our society," Peterson observes, referring to the latter depiction of women, seeing in this dynamic an echo of ancient warnings. Furthermore, she interprets the Biblical attention to Christ's feet as symbolic: "Women are the body of Christ, and we are the ones to bring people to church."
Perhaps most compelling is Peterson's thoughtful critique of modern feminism's impact on family life. In sharp contrast to the radical feminist view of domesticity as an imprisonment, Peterson sees the home and family as sacred space. The resulting societal shift has left many women childless, she says, often not by choice – a consequence she finds deeply troubling. Instead, Peterson recommends books like "The Way of All Women" and "The Little Oratory," emphasizing beauty and prayer practices that nurture both faith and family.
Whether teaching her granddaughter to pray the Rosary "one mystery at a time" or discussing theological concepts on her podcast, Peterson exemplifies a woman reclaiming traditional feminine wisdom in a modern context. Her message resonates particularly with mothers and grandmothers seeking to pass down faith traditions in an increasingly secular world. Ready to explore the sacred role of women in spiritual renewal? This conversation offers both comfort and challenge to those navigating the intersection of faith, family, and feminine identity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tammy Peterson (00:00):
I think that in our society, in our day and age
now, women have theresponsibility to go back to
church and bring their familiesthere, and I pray for that to
happen.
Narrator (00:17):
Mrs.
Tammy Peterson is a truthteller and a truth seeker.
This was how my mom began hernewspaper story in Toronto's
Catholic Register about Mrs.
Peterson's conversion in 2023.
A lot has happened since then.
Mrs.
Peterson continues to be on thepublic stage and host of the
popular Tammy Peterson podcast.
She is a beloved mother toJulian and Michaela and a doting
(00:40):
grandmother awaiting the birthof a new grandchild.
She is a devoted wife to herhusband, Dr.
Jordan Peterson.
She has joined him on his wewho Wrestle With God World Tour.
Here is my mother's interviewwith Mrs Peterson on the
anniversary of her confirmationand First Holy Communion at Holy
Rosary Church in Toronto.
Happy Easter and HappyAnniversary, Mrs.
(01:02):
Peterson.
God bless.
Happy Easter and HappyAnniversary, Mrs.
Peterson.
God bless
and the inspiration of Our Lady, I strive to tell stories that
(01:23):
inspire, illuminate and enrichthe lives of Catholic women, to
help them in living out ourvocation of raising the next
generation of leaders and saints.
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Happy Anniversary, Happy.
Easter, Happy Easter
Tammy Peterson (01:47):
Oh thank you,
Sheila Nonato (01:49):
Yeah, did you want to ask her something?
Tammy Peterson (01:52):
Do you have a question.
Narrator (01:55):
How did you teach your granddaughter the Rosary?
Tammy Peterson (01:59):
Oh well, I didn't teach her the whole thing
at the same time.
I taught her a little bit at atime, like one mystery at a time
.
So we would sit outside and I'dask her who she wanted to pray
for and she'd tell me, and thenwe would pray one mystery and
that was about all she had forsitting still, then she'd want
(02:24):
to go run around for a while.
So you know you can't do it allat once.
It's quite a long process.
At the beginning, right whenyou first learn, it takes a
little while, but once you getused to it it doesn't take as
long and you get used to thenecessity of it and how good it
is to think of other people.
Narrator (02:45):
Very good, thank you.
Sheila Nonato (02:49):
She was very curious about that.
When I told her.
Tammy Peterson (02:55):
My granddaughter knew how to pray the Rosary in
Russian.
Wow but not in English, so shewanted me to teach her that.
Sheila Nonato (03:03):
That's amazing.
Well, Happy Easter! That'samazing.
Tammy Peterson (03:05):
Yeah, it is, isn't it?
Sheila Nonato (03:06):
Well, Happy Easter.
Tammy Peterson (03:08):
You, too, Happy Easter.
Sheila Nonato (03:09):
How was Easter for you?
Tammy Peterson (03:11):
How was your family?
It was very interesting.
Are you recording this?
So right now it is recording,I'm going to say yeah.
Sheila Nonato (03:19):
Yeah, so it's recording now is recording now.
Tammy Peterson (03:33):
So, um, I went to the sermon and then this
church that I went to.
They brought in the Crucifixcovered in a shroud and walked
(03:55):
up the center aisle to the front, and then the main priest
uncovered each side of the crossand then the middle part of the
cross.
Each side of the cross and thenthe middle part of the cross,
and then people started comingup and kneeling in front and
kissing the feet of Christ, andI was sitting halfway back in
(04:16):
the church.
So I watched that as everyonewent up, and I thought.
The first thing that I thoughtwas this is a very good practice
in patience, because each ofthe pews stood up one at a time
and went up there, and so it wasa good exercise to not have sat
(04:37):
right at the front so that Icould be first, so sitting back
far enough so that I couldcontemplate why I was there.
And what I felt was that when Iwas in Patmos in Greece I think
(05:01):
it was during the summer we wentover to Greece, to Patmos, on a
ferry, and I knew that we weregoing to the cave of St John,
and so I decided that I wouldpray on the way there, and so it
was about a 15 minute boat rideand I prayed the entire boat
ride and then, when we got there, it was a beautiful old town
with very twisty cobblestonepassages, and we got to the
(05:29):
small chapel and inside it wasvery small and dark and there
were only a couple of pews.
It was very small, and so I satin the front pew and as I got
used to the light, I saw thatthere was a priest standing in
the front pew, and as I got usedto the light, I saw that there
was a a priest standing in thecorner praying and another
(05:50):
priest who was back behind withall of the you know I don't know
what you call them, but the,the special and sacred relics
that are back there, and so Isaw him back there too, and so I
was waiting for them to finish,and once they finished, I stood
(06:13):
up and someone said to me and Idon't know who it was said go
over to the corner there.
And so I went over and I sawthat there was a place in the
stone that was worn away, whereSt John would have put his hand,
and then there was a place onthe ground where St John would
have put his knee and so I putmy hand in that place and I put
(06:36):
my knee in that place on theground and I could feel my sins
very deeply from my life and itwas a profound experience.
It was the most profoundexperience I had had to my own
misgivings that I had, and itwasn't anything in particular,
(06:58):
it was just a very deep feelingof.
I think probably what it is issorrow and regret to have done
something that was so hurtful,which I didn't really understand
(07:20):
until I entered the CatholicChurch.
So now this is probably three orfour years later, which would
have been last Easter when Ientered the church, and now this
year, going to church, I sat inthe pews and I was thinking
about the fact that I had sinned, like everybody has Nothing
(07:41):
spectacular, but everybody sinsand I was feeling sorrow for the
fact that Christ was hurtingevery time I sinned and I felt
very bad.
And so by the time and tearscame down my face which was new
for me to sit in church and tofeel that kind of emotion and as
(08:07):
I walked up, I was, I teared upagain and when I knelt down I
said I was sorry.
And when I knelt down I said Iwas sorry, and then I stood up
and went back to my seat and Idecided that it was time to go
and so I walked to the back ofthe church and as I got there
(08:27):
there were two Catholic brothersstanding by the door and one of
them put his hand out for meand I came over and shook his
hand and he said that he knewwho I was and he asked me to
(08:50):
pray for him and um, and then Ileft for the day and it was that
was good, um.
The next night my husband washome and we watched Mel Gibson's
movie, the Passion of theChrist, and I told him how I
felt the day before when I wasin at Mass and I could see now
(09:13):
through that depiction.
It was very interesting how hedepicted the devil lurking and
that Christ could see the devilbut the people couldn't, and so
that was also something thatChrist is aware of the
(09:35):
misdemeanors, all of the sinsthat we make.
He's aware and he can see them,and he can see them as falling
away from what's right, and wedon't see it.
We don't see it until we, Ithink until we are baptized and
we come to the church and arehumbled enough to join the
(10:02):
church and to come to serviceand to be there, understanding
that the reason that we're thereis to be humble, and I think it
it's working for me anyway.
Sheila Nonato (10:18):
So yeah, beautiful.
Um, that's interesting.
You mentioned the passion ofthe Christ.
Um, many, many years ago I hadinterviewed the spiritual
director of Mel Gibson duringthe movie, and he was in Rome.
The priest was in Rome, fatherStephen Somerville, may he rest
in peace.
But he said every morning,stephen Somerville may he rest
in peace, but he said everymorning Mel Gibson would come
(10:39):
and when Jim Caviezel could comehe would come and he would say
the Mass in Latin.
And that was every day duringthe filming.
And it felt, as I recall thatmovie too, there was a very sort
of prayerful direction that wasguided by something more than
human, that the Holy Spirit wasguiding Mel Gibson's hand in
(11:02):
that movie.
It was very powerful and, fromwhat I recall, people were
disparaging it, saying no one'sgoing to watch that, it's in
Latin and nobody understandsthat.
But people came.
People came because of thepower of the story and the movie
that he made.
It's like a gift every year,although it's a difficult gift
(11:22):
to watch.
It's difficult to watch for meas well.
But how did your husbandreceive that movie?
Tammy Peterson (11:30):
Well, first of all, he said are you sure you
could?
He said it's very graphic.
I said, yeah, I want to watchit.
You know I'm ready to watch it.
I cried throughout the movieLike it was hard to watch it.
But then it was something.
He what did Jordan say?
He said that when Jim what ishis name?
(11:54):
Caviezel, Caviezel, Caviezel.
When Jim Caviezel was on setand he was on the Sermon on the
Mount, he was hit by lightningand he had two heart attacks
during the filming of that.
Wow, you know, that's reallysomething.
Sheila Nonato (12:28):
So there was definitely some spiritual
communication among the peoplethere.
And so this Easter you were byyourself.
Was it in Arizona?
Narrator (12:37):
Were you in Canada, I'm in Arizona, yeah.
Sheila Nonato (12:38):
Okay, okay, yourself, was it in Arizona?
Were you in Canada?
In Arizona?
Yeah, okay, okay.
So you spent Easter in Arizona.
What do you recall from lastyear?
Tammy Peterson (12:45):
I recall blowing up the church the night that
would have been Saturday nightand having Queenie there with me
and Jordan there with me.
I have pictures, so that helpsmy memory.
I remember you being there withme.
I have pictures, so that helpsmy memory.
I remember you being there withall your family and having our
picture taken.
And I remember many gifts.
(13:05):
I got many gifts.
I received many, many gifts.
I remember the church was fulland there were many young men
being baptized, which was verygood to see, and a number of us
being confirmed.
Yeah, and the church was packed.
And I had an interview beforeand that was with Colm (Flynn).
Narrator (13:35):
Yes.
Tammy Peterson (13:35):
Yeah, so I had an interview before and then we
had an interview.
So, yeah, that's pretty muchwhat I remember.
I remember, you know, coming upand kneeling and having Father
(13:57):
Turrone's hands on my head andstanding with Jordan.
Yeah, it was, that was a verygood.
It was very good.
I could feel it was good.
Sheila Nonato (14:07):
And you took the name Mary, I did.
Narrator (14:10):
Mm-hmm.
Tammy Peterson (14:13):
Well, you know, I prayed the Rosary so I thought
it was suitable that that isthe name I chose.
Since then I've been doing apodcast and I'm still talking to
people about religious matters,and I had a woman who wrote a
book called the Mary.
We Forgot about Mary Magdalene,and I read that book a couple
(14:38):
of times.
It's a pretty good book and sheoutlines in all the ways that
Mary was written into the Bibleand also how well she was also
concerned about her being knownas a prostitute.
(15:00):
But I asked her one questionthat I was curious about.
I said you know, in the OldTestament God was the almighty,
the everlasting, the omnipotentand omniscient, unknown.
Really, you know, omnipotentand omniscient, unknown, really
(15:23):
you know.
And then Christ comes to earthand we can understand him in
human form, which makes it, youknow, easier for us to relate to
.
I said do you think there isany relationship between what?
Now I turned that on for you,but now I have no worries, no
worries anyway.
Um, I wondered if there was anyrelationship between the whore
(15:45):
of Babylon and Mary Magdalene,and so I asked her what she
thought that was and I said youknow, the whore of Babylon is
more of a universal characterfrom the Old Testament that
represents in every way that awoman can go wrong, can be
commoditized, which is happeningin our society right now, that
(16:08):
women are being a commodity.
They're a commodity, acommodity, they're a commodity,
they have a financial value andthat when the Whore of Babylon
is riding on the seven-headedmonster, that's the patriarchy
(16:30):
that has gone bad and it's notunified under god anymore.
And when it isn't, then it hasthese heads and one of them
might be power, another onemight be money, status, all
kinds of things.
And the thing that happens towomen is they become commodities
(16:52):
and that's why she's on top ofthe, that's why she's riding on
this monster.
And I said and then in the newtestament there's mary magdalene
, who has seven demons.
She has seven demons and wascleansed of those demons by, uh,
humbling herself to, to, and herelieved her of those demons.
(17:18):
And she said that she thoughtthat that was a reasonable,
although she hadn't written thatin her book.
She thought that that was areasonable comparison and I
think it is Mary Magdalene.
You know she was, as I learnedthrough reading this book.
She was there at the tomb andnamed.
There's a reason for that.
(17:40):
She was at Christ's feet manytimes, anointing many times, and
I think you know what is that.
What are feet?
What are feet?
Well, feet are.
It's where you go, it's how youmove, it's what else are feet?
(18:02):
Feet take you here and there,but they also they're what you
put up at night when you rest,because if you put them up then
you're not going anywhere,because if you put them up then
you're not going anywhere.
And I think that this attentionto the feet is the attention to
(18:24):
the body of Christ, and ofcourse the church is known as
the body of Christ, and women inthe Bible are attending to his
feet.
So women it's no wonder.
Women are the body of Christ,and so we are the ones to bring
people to church, and I thinkthe mother is the one to bring
people to church.
(18:45):
So I think that in our society,in our day and age now, women
have the responsibility to goback to church and bring their
families there, and I pray forthat to happen.
Sheila Nonato (19:03):
Do you think there's sort of a dichotomy that
you mentioned the Whore ofBabylon and no disrespect to
Madonna, she's a great singer,but I'm just thinking about
Madonna and what she has doneover her career and we have the
Madonna, christ Jesus and Jesus'mother.
Is this sort of the starkchoice that we have today as
(19:23):
women, that we have to make thischoice?
I don't.
Tammy Peterson (19:27):
I think we always have choices to make.
We always have in everything wedo.
We have choices to make, butthose two and those choices are
broad and deep, those choices wemake and they make a difference
.
So, yes, there are definitelychoices that we make and Madonna
, the singer, she made herchoices.
Sheila Nonato (19:50):
And I'm just reminded I actually well trying
to prepare for the interview.
I was sort of called to look atthis book again and it's called
"he Feminine Mystique.
I did in university, I was veryobsessed with women's rights and
women's human rights and I tookall the courses and this book
was actually very, I guess,influential to me.
(20:13):
I was a Catholic, but I wasalso, I guess, influential to me
.
I was a Catholic but I was also, I guess, guided by what I was
reading and my professors and Ithought, yeah, according to this
book, I didn't.
I didn't want to get married.
Well, I also thought I wascalled to be a nun, but that's
another story.
But I didn't want to getmarried because, according to
this book, marriage being in thehome, domesticity, femininity
(20:36):
it's like a prison and I did notwant to be imprisoned.
Who wrote that book?
It's Betty Friedan, I don'tknow if.
I'm pronouncing her namecorrectly.
Tammy Peterson (20:45):
But yeah, that the home is a prison.
I would say that that was herpoint of view and it was not
very helpful for her togeneralize to everyone.
Sheila Nonato (20:55):
But do you think there is a return to domesticity
that women nowadays?
Well, they have a choice.
They could.
Tammy Peterson (21:02):
Yeah, they could , and if they do, I commend them
because it is a sacred place.
Sheila Nonato (21:10):
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, we're looking atfalling birth rates Actually at
the time.
What was interesting to?
To find out at the time thatshe wrote this book, or by the
end of the 1950s, the U.
S.
birth, the American birth rate,was actually overtaking India's
.
And then the birth controlmovement and Planned Parenthood
started and the Feministmovement.
I don't know if it's acoincidence, but then the birth
(21:32):
rate started falling since then.
Tammy Peterson (21:34):
I would say that that was causal.
Yeah, I would say that was wascausal.
Yeah, I would say that wascausal.
You know there was there wereso many feminists speaking about
the necessity for women to getout in the workforce and that
the home was not.
All of them said it was aprison, but they weren't putting
it first.
Let's say they weren't puttingthe home and the idea of being a
(21:57):
parent first.
They were trying to put workfirst and career first, and we
have seen where that has takenus.
It's obvious where the birthrate has fallen.
50% of women, by the timethey're 30, don't have any kids.
50% of those women won't haveany kids and it won't be their
(22:22):
choice.
So we are actually ending upnow with our idea of feminism
and the values that have beeninstilled within our societies.
Because of that, we're leavingwomen barren of children and
that doesn't sound like a goodoutcome to me.
Sheila Nonato (22:46):
Instead of "he feminine mystique, what would
you recommend for young women toread today?
Tammy Peterson (22:51):
Oh, that's a good, that's a good.
Can I get a couple of books?
Yeah, of course.
Okay, I'll get a couple, threebooks, okay, so talk about these
a little bit.
Yeah for sure.
This one is called "he Way ofAll Women, okay, esther Harding,
okay, so it's a book aboutmyths, and it's a book about
(23:14):
myths, and it's a book abouthistory and what has gone on for
many, many years.
Let's see what does it say onthe back of it.
It's for our time for a deeperknowledge of the human being and
(23:34):
for clarification of theconfusion existing in the
relationship between the sexes,and that is something that Carl
Jung wrote on the back.
So it's a very good book.
Esther Harding was a leadingJungian analyst for many years
and the founder of the AnalyticPsychology Club of New York.
(23:56):
She is also the author of abook called Women's Mysteries
Ancient and Modern PsychicEnergy, its Sources and Its
Transformation.
So she has a number of books,and Jordan agrees with me that
this is a very good book.
He's the one who brought me toit, that book.
Okay, now this book.
(24:18):
I interviewed a fellow namedDavid Clayton and he wrote a
book called "he Way of Beauty,and he's written a course on
beauty that he's working tobring to people.
And I think this is veryinteresting because, you know,
people wonder.
(24:38):
They look at the church andthey think, oh, why is the
church so rich looking?
Why are the priests dressed inthese rich looking garments that
they wear?
And the idea behind the way ofbeauty is that you're presenting
beauty as an offering to God.
Beauty is that you'representing beauty as an offering
(25:02):
to God.
And you know modern art, which Istudied for quite a while.
Largely it does not look forbeauty, and so I think that, and
even our modern architecturewith its, you know how sometimes
(25:23):
you go to a new downtown highrise and you can't find the door
.
Like, that's not, that's notwelcoming, right?
So the whole idea of modernarchitecture is not for people
because it doesn't even, theydon't even tell you where the
door is.
And even in the seventies andthe eighties, the windows often
didn't open in those, in those.
So people were inside thebuildings with no fresh air.
So even architecture hasbrought us away from what's
(25:48):
beautiful as an offering to God.
And so I think that's a veryinteresting book.
And then this last one is called"he Little Oratory.
Okay, and this is a book by thesame author, david Clayton, and
he wrote it with another woman,layla Marie Lawler, and this is
(26:12):
Practicing Praying in your Home, okay, okay.
And so you know, I know thatpeople have got away from the
church, and that doesn't have tostop you from praying.
You can have a prayer practiceat home and at least have that
(26:33):
that you can share with yourchildren as a beginning.
And then, if you can find yourway to give the time that is
necessary to go to church once aweek, that would also be very
good.
So you had mentioned earlierwhen you were talking to my
daughter about teaching yourgranddaughter about the rosary,
(26:58):
don't often pray with her, butwhen I'm with her she is very
sure that I pray.
She knows I pray, she's verysure of that.
I can tell there's no questionin her mind that that's who I am
(27:21):
and for her that's veryimportant to know that.
And I can remember that aboutmy grandmothers, that my
grandmothers went to churchevery Sunday.
One of them played the organ,the other one sung in the choir
and that was something I knewand I didn't question.
I thought it was right, and shethinks that it's right that I
(27:45):
prayed the rosary and that is, Ithink, what grandmothers can
give their kids.
That is the most precious thingthey can give them.
Sheila Nonato (27:56):
Join us for Part Two of Faith, family and
Motherhood with Tammy Peterson.
Happy Mother's Day to MotherMary, to my mom, to my
mother-in-law, to Tammy Peterson! Happy Mother's Day to my
sister Kate, to mysisters-in-law Patricia and Nhu,
and the spiritual mothers, mysister Christl and my
(28:18):
sister-in-law Tamara, and youare all beautiful women, strong,
intelligent and inspirationaland role models for my daughters
, and I really appreciate havingyou in our lives! I cannot
forget my Aunt Ellen, the Titason the Nanato and Dabu side, my
(28:40):
aunts in Chicago, Tita Winnieand Tita Bing, and Aunt Cynthia
and all the Titas, Tita Emily,Tita Tess, Tita Maty, and if
I've forgotten you, I'm so sorry.
I do sincerely appreciate eachand every one of you and all the
mothers and spiritual mothers.
May we celebrate them every dayand if you're a mom, may you be
(29:05):
treated with extra special loveand attention on this day.
Please join me in a free Retreatfor Mothers starting on May 11,
online on the Hozana App or theHozana website.
May 11 online on the Hozana appor the Hozana website, and it
is a free app and website thathas 1.9 million registered users
(29:25):
and, as I said, it is free.
So, please, I invite you tojoin me.
It's a seven-day retreat and ithas prayers and reflections and
we'll be celebrating MotherMary from Canada, and other
Marian devotions from around theworld.
Thank you so much.
God bless and may you have ablessed, blessed week.
(29:46):
See you next time.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armour podcast.
Narrator (30:06):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
I think that in our society, in our day and age
now, women have theresponsibility to go back to
church and bring their familiesthere, and I pray for that to
happen.
Narrator (00:17):
Mrs.
Tammy Peterson is a truthteller and a truth seeker.
This was how my mom began hernewspaper story in Toronto's
Catholic Register about Mrs.
Peterson's conversion in 2023.
A lot has happened since then.
Mrs.
Peterson continues to be on thepublic stage and host of the
popular Tammy Peterson podcast.
She is a beloved mother toJulian and Michaela and a doting
(00:40):
grandmother awaiting the birthof a new grandchild.
She is a devoted wife to herhusband, Dr.
Jordan Peterson.
She has joined him on his wewho Wrestle With God World Tour.
Here is my mother's interviewwith Mrs Peterson on the
anniversary of her confirmationand First Holy Communion at Holy
Rosary Church in Toronto.
Happy Easter and HappyAnniversary, Mrs.
(01:02):
Peterson.
God bless.
Happy Easter and HappyAnniversary, Mrs.
Peterson.
God bless
and the inspiration of Our Lady, I strive to tell stories that
(01:23):
inspire, illuminate and enrichthe lives of Catholic women, to
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Happy Anniversary, Happy.
Easter, Happy Easter
Tammy Peterson (01:47):
Oh thank you,
Sheila Nonato (01:49):
Yeah, did you want to ask her something?
Tammy Peterson (01:52):
Do you have a question.
Narrator (01:55):
How did you teach your granddaughter the Rosary?
Tammy Peterson (01:59):
Oh well, I didn't teach her the whole thing
at the same time.
I taught her a little bit at atime, like one mystery at a time
.
So we would sit outside and I'dask her who she wanted to pray
for and she'd tell me, and thenwe would pray one mystery and
that was about all she had forsitting still, then she'd want
(02:24):
to go run around for a while.
So you know you can't do it allat once.
It's quite a long process.
At the beginning, right whenyou first learn, it takes a
little while, but once you getused to it it doesn't take as
long and you get used to thenecessity of it and how good it
is to think of other people.
Narrator (02:45):
Very good, thank you.
Sheila Nonato (02:49):
She was very curious about that.
When I told her.
Tammy Peterson (02:55):
My granddaughter knew how to pray the Rosary in
Russian.
Wow but not in English, so shewanted me to teach her that.
Sheila Nonato (03:03):
That's amazing.
Well, Happy Easter! That'samazing.
Tammy Peterson (03:05):
Yeah, it is, isn't it?
Sheila Nonato (03:06):
Well, Happy Easter.
Tammy Peterson (03:08):
You, too, Happy Easter.
Sheila Nonato (03:09):
How was Easter for you?
Tammy Peterson (03:11):
How was your family?
It was very interesting.
Are you recording this?
So right now it is recording,I'm going to say yeah.
Sheila Nonato (03:19):
Yeah, so it's recording now is recording now.
Tammy Peterson (03:33):
So, um, I went to the sermon and then this
church that I went to.
They brought in the Crucifixcovered in a shroud and walked
(03:55):
up the center aisle to the front, and then the main priest
uncovered each side of the crossand then the middle part of the
cross.
Each side of the cross and thenthe middle part of the cross,
and then people started comingup and kneeling in front and
kissing the feet of Christ, andI was sitting halfway back in
(04:16):
the church.
So I watched that as everyonewent up, and I thought.
The first thing that I thoughtwas this is a very good practice
in patience, because each ofthe pews stood up one at a time
and went up there, and so it wasa good exercise to not have sat
(04:37):
right at the front so that Icould be first, so sitting back
far enough so that I couldcontemplate why I was there.
And what I felt was that when Iwas in Patmos in Greece I think
(05:01):
it was during the summer we wentover to Greece, to Patmos, on a
ferry, and I knew that we weregoing to the cave of St John,
and so I decided that I wouldpray on the way there, and so it
was about a 15 minute boat rideand I prayed the entire boat
ride and then, when we got there, it was a beautiful old town
with very twisty cobblestonepassages, and we got to the
(05:29):
small chapel and inside it wasvery small and dark and there
were only a couple of pews.
It was very small, and so I satin the front pew and as I got
used to the light, I saw thatthere was a priest standing in
the front pew, and as I got usedto the light, I saw that there
was a a priest standing in thecorner praying and another
(05:50):
priest who was back behind withall of the you know I don't know
what you call them, but the,the special and sacred relics
that are back there, and so Isaw him back there too, and so I
was waiting for them to finish,and once they finished, I stood
(06:13):
up and someone said to me and Idon't know who it was said go
over to the corner there.
And so I went over and I sawthat there was a place in the
stone that was worn away, whereSt John would have put his hand,
and then there was a place onthe ground where St John would
have put his knee and so I putmy hand in that place and I put
(06:36):
my knee in that place on theground and I could feel my sins
very deeply from my life and itwas a profound experience.
It was the most profoundexperience I had had to my own
misgivings that I had, and itwasn't anything in particular,
(06:58):
it was just a very deep feelingof.
I think probably what it is issorrow and regret to have done
something that was so hurtful,which I didn't really understand
(07:20):
until I entered the CatholicChurch.
So now this is probably three orfour years later, which would
have been last Easter when Ientered the church, and now this
year, going to church, I sat inthe pews and I was thinking
about the fact that I had sinned, like everybody has Nothing
(07:41):
spectacular, but everybody sinsand I was feeling sorrow for the
fact that Christ was hurtingevery time I sinned and I felt
very bad.
And so by the time and tearscame down my face which was new
for me to sit in church and tofeel that kind of emotion and as
(08:07):
I walked up, I was, I teared upagain and when I knelt down I
said I was sorry.
And when I knelt down I said Iwas sorry, and then I stood up
and went back to my seat and Idecided that it was time to go
and so I walked to the back ofthe church and as I got there
(08:27):
there were two Catholic brothersstanding by the door and one of
them put his hand out for meand I came over and shook his
hand and he said that he knewwho I was and he asked me to
(08:50):
pray for him and um, and then Ileft for the day and it was that
was good, um.
The next night my husband washome and we watched Mel Gibson's
movie, the Passion of theChrist, and I told him how I
felt the day before when I wasin at Mass and I could see now
(09:13):
through that depiction.
It was very interesting how hedepicted the devil lurking and
that Christ could see the devilbut the people couldn't, and so
that was also something thatChrist is aware of the
(09:35):
misdemeanors, all of the sinsthat we make.
He's aware and he can see them,and he can see them as falling
away from what's right, and wedon't see it.
We don't see it until we, Ithink until we are baptized and
we come to the church and arehumbled enough to join the
(10:02):
church and to come to serviceand to be there, understanding
that the reason that we're thereis to be humble, and I think it
it's working for me anyway.
Sheila Nonato (10:18):
So yeah, beautiful.
Um, that's interesting.
You mentioned the passion ofthe Christ.
Um, many, many years ago I hadinterviewed the spiritual
director of Mel Gibson duringthe movie, and he was in Rome.
The priest was in Rome, fatherStephen Somerville, may he rest
in peace.
But he said every morning,stephen Somerville may he rest
in peace, but he said everymorning Mel Gibson would come
(10:39):
and when Jim Caviezel could comehe would come and he would say
the Mass in Latin.
And that was every day duringthe filming.
And it felt, as I recall thatmovie too, there was a very sort
of prayerful direction that wasguided by something more than
human, that the Holy Spirit wasguiding Mel Gibson's hand in
(11:02):
that movie.
It was very powerful and, fromwhat I recall, people were
disparaging it, saying no one'sgoing to watch that, it's in
Latin and nobody understandsthat.
But people came.
People came because of thepower of the story and the movie
that he made.
It's like a gift every year,although it's a difficult gift
(11:22):
to watch.
It's difficult to watch for meas well.
But how did your husbandreceive that movie?
Tammy Peterson (11:30):
Well, first of all, he said are you sure you
could?
He said it's very graphic.
I said, yeah, I want to watchit.
You know I'm ready to watch it.
I cried throughout the movieLike it was hard to watch it.
But then it was something.
He what did Jordan say?
He said that when Jim what ishis name?
(11:54):
Caviezel, Caviezel, Caviezel.
When Jim Caviezel was on setand he was on the Sermon on the
Mount, he was hit by lightningand he had two heart attacks
during the filming of that.
Wow, you know, that's reallysomething.
Sheila Nonato (12:28):
So there was definitely some spiritual
communication among the peoplethere.
And so this Easter you were byyourself.
Was it in Arizona?
Narrator (12:37):
Were you in Canada, I'm in Arizona, yeah.
Sheila Nonato (12:38):
Okay, okay, yourself, was it in Arizona?
Were you in Canada?
In Arizona?
Yeah, okay, okay.
So you spent Easter in Arizona.
What do you recall from lastyear?
Tammy Peterson (12:45):
I recall blowing up the church the night that
would have been Saturday nightand having Queenie there with me
and Jordan there with me.
I have pictures, so that helpsmy memory.
I remember you being there withme.
I have pictures, so that helpsmy memory.
I remember you being there withall your family and having our
picture taken.
And I remember many gifts.
(13:05):
I got many gifts.
I received many, many gifts.
I remember the church was fulland there were many young men
being baptized, which was verygood to see, and a number of us
being confirmed.
Yeah, and the church was packed.
And I had an interview beforeand that was with Colm (Flynn).
Narrator (13:35):
Yes.
Tammy Peterson (13:35):
Yeah, so I had an interview before and then we
had an interview.
So, yeah, that's pretty muchwhat I remember.
I remember, you know, coming upand kneeling and having Father
(13:57):
Turrone's hands on my head andstanding with Jordan.
Yeah, it was, that was a verygood.
It was very good.
I could feel it was good.
Sheila Nonato (14:07):
And you took the name Mary, I did.
Narrator (14:10):
Mm-hmm.
Tammy Peterson (14:13):
Well, you know, I prayed the Rosary so I thought
it was suitable that that isthe name I chose.
Since then I've been doing apodcast and I'm still talking to
people about religious matters,and I had a woman who wrote a
book called the Mary.
We Forgot about Mary Magdalene,and I read that book a couple
(14:38):
of times.
It's a pretty good book and sheoutlines in all the ways that
Mary was written into the Bibleand also how well she was also
concerned about her being knownas a prostitute.
(15:00):
But I asked her one questionthat I was curious about.
I said you know, in the OldTestament God was the almighty,
the everlasting, the omnipotentand omniscient, unknown.
Really, you know, omnipotentand omniscient, unknown, really
(15:23):
you know.
And then Christ comes to earthand we can understand him in
human form, which makes it, youknow, easier for us to relate to
.
I said do you think there isany relationship between what?
Now I turned that on for you,but now I have no worries, no
worries anyway.
Um, I wondered if there was anyrelationship between the whore
(15:45):
of Babylon and Mary Magdalene,and so I asked her what she
thought that was and I said youknow, the whore of Babylon is
more of a universal characterfrom the Old Testament that
represents in every way that awoman can go wrong, can be
commoditized, which is happeningin our society right now, that
(16:08):
women are being a commodity.
They're a commodity, acommodity, they're a commodity,
they have a financial value andthat when the Whore of Babylon
is riding on the seven-headedmonster, that's the patriarchy
(16:30):
that has gone bad and it's notunified under god anymore.
And when it isn't, then it hasthese heads and one of them
might be power, another onemight be money, status, all
kinds of things.
And the thing that happens towomen is they become commodities
(16:52):
and that's why she's on top ofthe, that's why she's riding on
this monster.
And I said and then in the newtestament there's mary magdalene
, who has seven demons.
She has seven demons and wascleansed of those demons by, uh,
humbling herself to, to, and herelieved her of those demons.
(17:18):
And she said that she thoughtthat that was a reasonable,
although she hadn't written thatin her book.
She thought that that was areasonable comparison and I
think it is Mary Magdalene.
You know she was, as I learnedthrough reading this book.
She was there at the tomb andnamed.
There's a reason for that.
(17:40):
She was at Christ's feet manytimes, anointing many times, and
I think you know what is that.
What are feet?
What are feet?
Well, feet are.
It's where you go, it's how youmove, it's what else are feet?
(18:02):
Feet take you here and there,but they also they're what you
put up at night when you rest,because if you put them up then
you're not going anywhere,because if you put them up then
you're not going anywhere.
And I think that this attentionto the feet is the attention to
(18:24):
the body of Christ, and ofcourse the church is known as
the body of Christ, and women inthe Bible are attending to his
feet.
So women it's no wonder.
Women are the body of Christ,and so we are the ones to bring
people to church, and I thinkthe mother is the one to bring
people to church.
(18:45):
So I think that in our society,in our day and age now, women
have the responsibility to goback to church and bring their
families there, and I pray forthat to happen.
Sheila Nonato (19:03):
Do you think there's sort of a dichotomy that
you mentioned the Whore ofBabylon and no disrespect to
Madonna, she's a great singer,but I'm just thinking about
Madonna and what she has doneover her career and we have the
Madonna, christ Jesus and Jesus'mother.
Is this sort of the starkchoice that we have today as
(19:23):
women, that we have to make thischoice?
I don't.
Tammy Peterson (19:27):
I think we always have choices to make.
We always have in everything wedo.
We have choices to make, butthose two and those choices are
broad and deep, those choices wemake and they make a difference
.
So, yes, there are definitelychoices that we make and Madonna
, the singer, she made herchoices.
Sheila Nonato (19:50):
And I'm just reminded I actually well trying
to prepare for the interview.
I was sort of called to look atthis book again and it's called
"he Feminine Mystique.
I did in university, I was veryobsessed with women's rights and
women's human rights and I tookall the courses and this book
was actually very, I guess,influential to me.
(20:13):
I was a Catholic, but I wasalso, I guess, influential to me
.
I was a Catholic but I was also, I guess, guided by what I was
reading and my professors and Ithought, yeah, according to this
book, I didn't.
I didn't want to get married.
Well, I also thought I wascalled to be a nun, but that's
another story.
But I didn't want to getmarried because, according to
this book, marriage being in thehome, domesticity, femininity
(20:36):
it's like a prison and I did notwant to be imprisoned.
Who wrote that book?
It's Betty Friedan, I don'tknow if.
I'm pronouncing her namecorrectly.
Tammy Peterson (20:45):
But yeah, that the home is a prison.
I would say that that was herpoint of view and it was not
very helpful for her togeneralize to everyone.
Sheila Nonato (20:55):
But do you think there is a return to domesticity
that women nowadays?
Well, they have a choice.
They could.
Tammy Peterson (21:02):
Yeah, they could , and if they do, I commend them
because it is a sacred place.
Sheila Nonato (21:10):
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, we're looking atfalling birth rates Actually at
the time.
What was interesting to?
To find out at the time thatshe wrote this book, or by the
end of the 1950s, the U.
S.
birth, the American birth rate,was actually overtaking India's
.
And then the birth controlmovement and Planned Parenthood
started and the Feministmovement.
I don't know if it's acoincidence, but then the birth
(21:32):
rate started falling since then.
Tammy Peterson (21:34):
I would say that that was causal.
Yeah, I would say that was wascausal.
Yeah, I would say that wascausal.
You know there was there wereso many feminists speaking about
the necessity for women to getout in the workforce and that
the home was not.
All of them said it was aprison, but they weren't putting
it first.
Let's say they weren't puttingthe home and the idea of being a
(21:57):
parent first.
They were trying to put workfirst and career first, and we
have seen where that has takenus.
It's obvious where the birthrate has fallen.
50% of women, by the timethey're 30, don't have any kids.
50% of those women won't haveany kids and it won't be their
(22:22):
choice.
So we are actually ending upnow with our idea of feminism
and the values that have beeninstilled within our societies.
Because of that, we're leavingwomen barren of children and
that doesn't sound like a goodoutcome to me.
Sheila Nonato (22:46):
Instead of "he feminine mystique, what would
you recommend for young women toread today?
Tammy Peterson (22:51):
Oh, that's a good, that's a good.
Can I get a couple of books?
Yeah, of course.
Okay, I'll get a couple, threebooks, okay, so talk about these
a little bit.
Yeah for sure.
This one is called "he Way ofAll Women, okay, esther Harding,
okay, so it's a book aboutmyths, and it's a book about
(23:14):
myths, and it's a book abouthistory and what has gone on for
many, many years.
Let's see what does it say onthe back of it.
It's for our time for a deeperknowledge of the human being and
(23:34):
for clarification of theconfusion existing in the
relationship between the sexes,and that is something that Carl
Jung wrote on the back.
So it's a very good book.
Esther Harding was a leadingJungian analyst for many years
and the founder of the AnalyticPsychology Club of New York.
(23:56):
She is also the author of abook called Women's Mysteries
Ancient and Modern PsychicEnergy, its Sources and Its
Transformation.
So she has a number of books,and Jordan agrees with me that
this is a very good book.
He's the one who brought me toit, that book.
Okay, now this book.
(24:18):
I interviewed a fellow namedDavid Clayton and he wrote a
book called "he Way of Beauty,and he's written a course on
beauty that he's working tobring to people.
And I think this is veryinteresting because, you know,
people wonder.
(24:38):
They look at the church andthey think, oh, why is the
church so rich looking?
Why are the priests dressed inthese rich looking garments that
they wear?
And the idea behind the way ofbeauty is that you're presenting
beauty as an offering to God.
Beauty is that you'representing beauty as an offering
(25:02):
to God.
And you know modern art, which Istudied for quite a while.
Largely it does not look forbeauty, and so I think that, and
even our modern architecturewith its, you know how sometimes
(25:23):
you go to a new downtown highrise and you can't find the door
.
Like, that's not, that's notwelcoming, right?
So the whole idea of modernarchitecture is not for people
because it doesn't even, theydon't even tell you where the
door is.
And even in the seventies andthe eighties, the windows often
didn't open in those, in those.
So people were inside thebuildings with no fresh air.
So even architecture hasbrought us away from what's
(25:48):
beautiful as an offering to God.
And so I think that's a veryinteresting book.
And then this last one is called"he Little Oratory.
Okay, and this is a book by thesame author, david Clayton, and
he wrote it with another woman,layla Marie Lawler, and this is
(26:12):
Practicing Praying in your Home, okay, okay.
And so you know, I know thatpeople have got away from the
church, and that doesn't have tostop you from praying.
You can have a prayer practiceat home and at least have that
(26:33):
that you can share with yourchildren as a beginning.
And then, if you can find yourway to give the time that is
necessary to go to church once aweek, that would also be very
good.
So you had mentioned earlierwhen you were talking to my
daughter about teaching yourgranddaughter about the rosary,
(26:58):
don't often pray with her, butwhen I'm with her she is very
sure that I pray.
She knows I pray, she's verysure of that.
I can tell there's no questionin her mind that that's who I am
(27:21):
and for her that's veryimportant to know that.
And I can remember that aboutmy grandmothers, that my
grandmothers went to churchevery Sunday.
One of them played the organ,the other one sung in the choir
and that was something I knewand I didn't question.
I thought it was right, and shethinks that it's right that I
(27:45):
prayed the rosary and that is, Ithink, what grandmothers can
give their kids.
That is the most precious thingthey can give them.
Sheila Nonato (27:56):
Join us for Part Two of Faith, family and
Motherhood with Tammy Peterson.
Happy Mother's Day to MotherMary, to my mom, to my
mother-in-law, to Tammy Peterson! Happy Mother's Day to my
sister Kate, to mysisters-in-law Patricia and Nhu,
and the spiritual mothers, mysister Christl and my
(28:18):
sister-in-law Tamara, and youare all beautiful women, strong,
intelligent and inspirationaland role models for my daughters
, and I really appreciate havingyou in our lives! I cannot
forget my Aunt Ellen, the Titason the Nanato and Dabu side, my
(28:40):
aunts in Chicago, Tita Winnieand Tita Bing, and Aunt Cynthia
and all the Titas, Tita Emily,Tita Tess, Tita Maty, and if
I've forgotten you, I'm so sorry.
I do sincerely appreciate eachand every one of you and all the
mothers and spiritual mothers.
May we celebrate them every dayand if you're a mom, may you be
(29:05):
treated with extra special loveand attention on this day.
Please join me in a free Retreatfor Mothers starting on May 11,
online on the Hozana App or theHozana website.
May 11 online on the Hozana appor the Hozana website, and it
is a free app and website thathas 1.9 million registered users
(29:25):
and, as I said, it is free.
So, please, I invite you tojoin me.
It's a seven-day retreat and ithas prayers and reflections and
we'll be celebrating MotherMary from Canada, and other
Marian devotions from around theworld.
Thank you so much.
God bless and may you have ablessed, blessed week.
(29:46):
See you next time.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armour podcast.
Narrator (30:06):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
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