38. Tammy's Catholic Conversion Anniversary: Easter Vigil 2024 Interview with Tammy and Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: Wrestling with God - How Tammy Peterson found God in the Catholic faith, through Mother Mary

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Unexpected blessings often emerge from life's darkest moments. 

For Tammy Peterson, a terminal diagnosis opened the door to profound spiritual transformation, miraculous healing, and ultimately, reception into the Catholic Church. This episode pulls back the curtain on our conversation with Tammy and Dr. Jordan Peterson on the very day of her confirmation last year on March 30, 2024.

When doctors gave Tammy just months to live, she discovered the power of prayer through the Holy Rosary. On day five of a novena to St. Josemaria Escriva, she announced to her husband that she would be healed—a prayer that was answered on their anniversary. Her journey to Jesus through Mary led her to choose the confirmation name "Mary," and to embrace a new mission challenging the mainstream radical feminist narrative that has led to negative consequences for women and society.

Through her podcast, Tammy explores Biblical wisdom from Proverbs while offering young women an alternative perspective on feminine identity. She powerfully contrasts the "female heroine" embodied by Mother Mary—who was conceived without sin, and became the Mother of God, knowing Jesus' ultimate sacrifice—with what she terms "the whore of Babylon." As Jordan notes, "Young women are told more lies than it's possible to imagine," particularly about the value and necessity of motherhood. The consequences of these cultural deceptions, he suggests, are "catastrophic," leaving many women reaching their thirties without children and deeply unfulfilled.

The conversation culminates with reflections on "wrestling with God"—the unavoidable struggle with moral choices and conflicts of duty that defines human existence. "Life is the wrestling with God," Jordan states simply. For Tammy, this wrestling has led to a profound spiritual awakening and a platform to share feminine wisdom in a society desperately in need of healing.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tammy loved being a mother.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
And I loved being a grandmother it was the best.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Yeah, and she loves being a grandmother and it was
certainly.
That was the best part of yourlife, especially when you had
little kids.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I was looking up at the stained glass tonight when
there weren't any lights on andyou could really see the images
there, and we were looking atMother Mary holding baby Jesus
and the crucifixion was beneathand we were talking about how
that was the message of thefemale hero.
If Christ is the male hero,then Mother Mary having this

(00:36):
baby, knowing what's going tohappen, that's the female hero.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
For Canadian podcaster Tammy Peterson, the
journey towards Christianconversion and Easter vigil
began with a grim prognosis 10months to live At the hospital.
She learned to converse withGod and developed a daily
practice of prayer.
After being taught how to praythe Holy Rosary by an
acquaintance at the time,queenie Yu by an acquaintance at

(01:02):
the time, queenie Yu, and onday five of a novena to St
Josemaria Escriva, she announcedto her husband, dr Jordan B
Peterson, that she had beenhealed of an illness that
developed post-cancer surgeryand that had mystified doctors.
It was a healing, she reassuredhim would happen on their
anniversary, which it did.

(01:23):
Since that time, her dailypractice of prayer continues,
emboldened by the confirmationname that Tammy Peterson adopted
at the Easter Vigil last yearat Holy Rosary Parish in Toronto
.
She chose the name Mary Mary,the Mother of God, the
embodiment of the femininegenius.
Mary's example is what inspiresthe new mission that Tammy Mary

(01:47):
Peterson has felt called to inher popular podcast giving women
a new perspective on womanhoodand women's pivotal role in
society, a stark contrast to themainstream radical feminist
narrative that dominatesacademia, pop culture and the
media.
In this week's episode, we pullback the curtains on the

(02:09):
interview I conducted with TammyPeterson and her husband, dr
Jordan B Peterson, on the day ofthe Easter Vigil, when she was
confirmed and received her firstHoly Communion.
What were her initial thoughts?
Let's find out Before we hearthe conversation.
Please join me in a Hail Maryin your language.
I will be praying the Hail Maryin Latin, which is an ancient

(02:33):
language of the Church.
In nomine Patris et Filii etSpiritus Sancti.
Amen, ave Maria, gratia plena,dominus tecum.

(03:01):
Thank you and a happy Easter toyou and your families.
God bless, hello and welcome tothe Veil and Armor podcast.
This is your host, sheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist,

(03:23):
seeking the guidance of the HolySpirit and the inspiration of
Our Lady.
I strive to tell stories thatinspire, illuminate and enrich
the lives of Catholic women, tohelp them in living out our
vocation of raising the nextgeneration of leaders and saints
.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armor
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens in mother's heart.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Thank you for joining us and congratulations.
Thank you On entering theCatholic Church.
Thank you.
What is your confirmation name?

Speaker 4 (03:57):
Mary.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Mary, and given that, what do you feel called to now
with this new name?
Given that, what do you feelcalled?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
to now with this new name.
Well, I am really at the verybeginning of an investigation
into the Proverbs, so I began torecord a proverb and to comment
on it.
Comment on it I look at theproverb and then I go to
actually an AI system that hasbeen set up on the Bible, on

(04:32):
scripture and on Jordan'swritings, and so then I get an
insight into some of the otherinterpretations of it, and so
then I can understand it betterand I write down a few of those
and then I talk about my newunderstanding of that and what
it seems to mean to me, and I'mhoping that through that, people

(04:56):
can find a relationship, thatthrough that people can find a
relationship, and the Proverbsare supposed to be something
that you can read to help youdeepen your faith and to show
you to broaden your scope ofunderstanding and how to use the
Bible to make your lifefruitful, and so I'm hoping that

(05:21):
that can be helpful to people.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Tammy loved being a mother.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Okay, and I love being a grandmother too.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
It was the best, yeah , and she loves being a
grandmother, and it wascertainly that was the best part
of your life, especially whenyou had little kids, and I think
the best part of you came outthen.
And young women are told morelies than it's really possible
to imagine, and one of them isthat that's not necessary or

(05:50):
desirable or valuable, andthat's an anti-truth.
It's really terrible for them.
It's terrible for everyone.
It pathologizes young womenterribly.
It, it, it bends and dementsthe entire culture in ways that
we're barely able to understand.
And Tammy knows better than that, and her investigations in her

(06:15):
podcast are at least in part aneffort to find out why that's
happened and to lay forward analternative pathway.
And part of the reason she'sfascinated by the Catholic
Church is because of itspositioning of Mary right, and
it's one of the things theCatholic Church has that's very

(06:38):
powerful to offer on theChristian side.
It's that insistence upon thedivine nature of the mother, and
that's something the Westdesperately needs.
We're too demented to reproduceourselves right.
There's no more confusiondeeper than that, and so, being

(07:03):
female and having a voice as shedoes, she's in a position to
investigate that with some depth.
She's been doing with peoplelike janice fiamengo, who's a
brilliant critic of the feministtradition, which is, in the, a
very pathological tradition.
It describes itself aspro-woman.

(07:24):
I see no evidence for thatwhatsoever very, very little.
And so well she's laying thatout in her podcast and in her
work, and good for her.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and I'm going to continue to do that and I've
been calling it the TammyPeterson podcast.
But I was looking up at thestained glass tonight when there
weren't any lights on and youcould really see the images
there, and we were looking atMother Mary holding baby Jesus
and the crucifixion was beneathand we were talking about how
that was the message of thefemale hero is.

(08:02):
Is really that's, that's the if.
If christ is the the male hero,then mother mary having this
baby, knowing what's going tohappen, that's the female hero,
and what's the opposite of thefemale hero is the whore of
Babylon.
And so I want to juxtaposethose two images and talk about.

(08:28):
Talk about this if you're notchoosing this, what are you
choosing?
Because this is what's, and sobe very careful what you decide,
be very careful what youdiscard.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
You don't know what will pop up to replace it.
Right, and at the moment itdoesn't look that pretty, you
might say.
And so young women.
They have very few sources ofwisdom.
They're taught very badly inuniversities.
A tremendous number of themmake it to 30 without having
children.
It's very hard on them and thecascading consequences of that

(09:12):
are catastrophic.
So and it's a tough nut tocrack it's very difficult for a
man to say anything about.
If I ever say anything aboutyoung women, the most vitriolic
commentary immediately comes myway, More vitriolic than if I
touch on any other topic.
How dare this old white manhave anything to say to us?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's like Well, people tell me.
I'm out of touch too, but Idon't care really Out of touch.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Out of touch with what.
That's the real question.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
My final question is my husband and I were at the
Detroit stop of your we whoWrestle With God tour.
Why is it so important towrestle with God?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
We don't have a choice.
Moral choices are verydifficult, especially when there
are conflicts of duty, whenyou're, you know, trying to say
divide your attention among thepeople you love, that's a good
example.
You're trying to do the rightthing, but there's a variety of
different ways to do that.
Well, that's wrestling.
No one escapes the necessity ofmoral decision.

(10:18):
That's a complete delusion.
If you think you can circumventthat, you can't circumvent that
.
And be alive.
Life is the wrestling with God.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it
.
Congratulations once again.
In Genesis we read of Jacobwrestling with an angel believed
to be God himself.
Jacob perseveres in thismonumental struggle and gains
God's blessing.
Struggle and gains God'sblessing.

(10:51):
Afterwards, jacob is renamedIsrael, for you have striven
with God and with men and haveprevailed.
The Bible says Tammy and JordanPeterson continue on their
journey of wrestling with God.
Dr Peterson's newest book wewho Wrestle With God and Tammy's

(11:13):
role in his recent book tourshow an earnest and authentic
striving for truth.
To see how Tammy Petersoncontinues to explore her faith
and the pressing issuesaffecting women in our modern
world, you can catch her onYouTube, apple Podcasts and all

(11:33):
podcasting platforms.
And to catch up on how DrPeterson explores the idea of
wrestling with God, you can findhis book we who Wrestle With
God on his website,jordanpetersoncom.
And because of our podcastanniversary this Easter, we're
going to be doing a giveaway ofDr Peterson's book we who
Wrestle With God.
For more details, please.

(11:54):
Who Wrestle With God?
For more details, please checkthe show notes.
Thank you and God bless.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armor podcast.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's be brave, let's be boldand be blessed together.