A Young Catholic Bride prepares for her marriage in Paris, France.
Sheila speaks with Cassandre Verheslt from Paris, France, who has some bittersweet news for us!
Stay tuned to find out!
0:01 Cassandre's quote: Growing closer to Jesus
0:32 Welcome1:07 "Love is patient, love is kind." 1 Corinthians 1-13
2:39 Opening prayer
3:10 Cassandre's Announcement
5:10 Understanding French Wedding Traditions
5:55 Church Wedding follows the civil wedding
6:57 Do most people do the church wedding?
7:40 Marriage Preparation
10:30 Finding the dress
13:30 A veil?
14:17 Wedding cake Traditions
14:47 Princess Diana and Prince Charles' Wedding Cake
15:24 "Are you saving a slice of your wedding cake for next year?"
15:54 Sheila's wedding cake fiasco
17:44 Q: How did you meet?
22:45 Marriage prep
23:14 Blooper - cameo of my daughter
28:09 The 4 Pillars of Marriage
30:07 Marriage prep tips
31:51 "Find the good in what is bothering me"
33:19 "Was prayer part of your courtship?"
35:40 An hour of adoration per week and Mass
37:01 The Sanctity of Marriage mirroring the Holy Trinity
37:41 Final prayers and Congratulations to Cassandre and her husband
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Casssandre Verhelst (00:00):
If we grow closer to the Lord, we're going
to grow closer to each other,and so if we want to get closer
to each other, we need to growcloser to the Lord because, by
nature, it's going to make usbecome closer to each other.
So I thought that was superimpressive, because if you do
keep your eyes on them, keepyour eyes on the prize, if you
(00:21):
keep your eyes on the prize ofJesus' love.
Co-Host (00:25):
I think you're going to get there.
Casssandre Verhelst (00:26):
Because it's a grace and you have to
have confidence in the fact thatthe Lord is taking that
commitment with the both of us.
Sheila Nonato (00:36):
Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast.
This is your host, SheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist,
Seeking the guidance of the HolySpirit and the inspiration of
Our Lady.
Host, Sheila Nonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist,
Seeking the guidance of the HolySpirit and the inspiration of
Our Lady.
I strive to tell stories thatinspire, illuminate and enrich
the lives of Catholic women tohelp them in living out our
vocation of raising the nextgeneration of leaders and saints
(00:59):
.
Co-Host (01:00):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Sheila Nonato (01:07):
"Love is patient and kind.
Love is not jealous or boastful.
It is not arrogant or rude.
Love does not insist on its ownway.
It is not irritable orresentful.
It does not rejoice at wrong,but rejoices in the right.
Love bears all things, believesall things, hopes all things,
(01:32):
endures all things.
Now I know in part, then Ishall understand fully even as I
have been fully understood.
So faith, hope, love, abide,these three, but the greatest of
these is love.
"Welcome to Cassandre Verhelst,
(01:54):
and it is bittersweet, as she'sgetting married in a week: the
civil wedding, and then thewedding and the church after
that.
But she's also going to beleaving Hozana and I'm very sad
about that.
But I'm still going to be goingto Hosanna to you know, pray
with the community.
But yes, Cassandre, please tellus first of all, how are you
(02:16):
doing?
Casssandre Verhelst (02:17):
I'm doing very good.
I'm super excited to getmarried, and so I'm.
With all of those emotions, I'mlooking forward to this new
chapter and a new life togetherwith my fiancé okay, well,
amazing well let's start with aprayer then, if you would mind
please yeah, " plaine de grâce.
Cassandre Verhelst (02:41):
Le Seigneur est avec vous.
Vous êtes bénie entre toutesles femmes, et Jésus, le fruit
de vos entrailles est béni.
Sainte Marie, mère de Dieu,priez pour nos pauvres pécheurs,
maintenant et à l'heure denotre mort.
Amen.
"
Sheila Nonato (02:59):
Au nom du Pere, et du fils, et du Saint Esprit,
Amen.
", that's as far as the Frenchgoes, for me it's been a while,
but thank you for that beautifulprayer in French of the Hail
Mary.
So, yeah, sorry for being nosy,but your wedding is in a week,
the civil wedding.
Tell us again, how does it work?
In France, there are twoweddings, yeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (03:20):
Well, in France, you have to first get
married at the town hall beforeyou're allowed to get married at
the church hall, before you'reallowed to get married at the
church, and so we decided to dothis in two different spots.
The town hall wedding will bein my fiance's region, and then
we're going to get marriedreligiously.
And that's how you call thedifference the civil wedding and
(03:43):
the religious wedding at leastFrench between Paris and
Brussels, because I'm actuallyfrom Brussels, and so midway we
found a church that could hostus for a mass, and then we'll
have a small reception next tothat, and so the first step is
(04:05):
this Saturday.
So I'm very excited.
It's a small step because it'sjust papers, but nonetheless
it's the step where you changeyour name Legally, you become
Mrs and not Miss and your newlast name, and you officialize
and you make official yourengagement in front of society.
Sheila Nonato (04:30):
Okay, and so everyone has to go through this
right.
You can't skip the civil right,yeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (04:36):
Or else it won't be recognized, unless
you're very sly and you go toanother country to get married.
Sheila Nonato (04:41):
Okay, okay, and then so tell us.
So you have a dress, but it'snot your.
It's not your wedding dress,right, it's a simpler dress.
Casssandre Verhelst (04:51):
Yeah, it's a simpler dress because, I mean,
you can do it as you like, andwe decided to kind of keep it
simple because it's it's in thecountryside, it's with just our
family, you can kind of choosethe form you want it to take.
Legally, you have to have atleast two witnesses for the
couple, so one each, and wedecided to have two each because
(05:16):
that's the to ask some of ourfriends to be there on that
special day.
And then, concretely, I'm goingto have a red dress with
flowers and and then we inviteto.
We invited our aunts and unclesand our grandmothers and our
family and our a few of ourclose friends to to come in and
(05:37):
spend the weekend in thecountryside right after so, to
spend some time all together.
Sheila Nonato (05:44):
Oh, wow, okay, Beautiful, beautiful, and and
then.
So then, after when is thechurch wedding?
Do you have to wait for acertain period of time, or how
do you?
Casssandre Verhelst (05:54):
No, and actually, on the contrary, you
ideally get married civillyright before your religious
wedding.
Um, because one of the prieststhat um that prepared us
prepares couples here in France,in Paris, said I mean, if you
end your engagement and youdecide not to get married in the
(06:15):
end, but you got marriedcivilly a year before or three
months before, first of all ittakes away some of your freedom
and, second of all, you'll bedivorced.
First of all, it takes away someof your freedom and second of
all, you'll be divorced.
You'll be divorced because youmight not have taken up and gone
through with the religiousceremony but in the eyes of the
state you were married.
(06:35):
And so often there are kind oftwo teams those that get married
just before because they makeit one event, and then those
that for different circumstances, because it's important to get
married in your hometown orbecause it's important for this
or that reason it's separatedand with more time in between.
Sheila Nonato (06:56):
Okay.
So do most people do the churchwedding, or do they just like
if they're not Catholic, do theyjust, I guess?
Or even if they are Catholic,do they still do the church?
Or is they are catholic, dothey do they still do the church
?
Or is it sort of a few rightnow and yeah?
Casssandre Verhelst (07:11):
Well, they're no, honestly, not a lot
of people get married at church.
And and what what I foundpretty impressive was, um, we
went to with paul adrian, to amarriage prep, um, in our parish
, because to get married in apair found to get married in the
catholic church, at least infrance you have to get married
in a parish.
To get married in the CatholicChurch, at least in France, you
have to have gone through somesort of marriage preparation,
either with a priest, with areligious community or in your
(07:32):
parish.
And so the priest that'smarrying us asked us to go to a
marriage prep in our parish.
And so we went to the parishclosest to our new house, our
new apartment, and there I wassurprised because there was an
(07:55):
array and just different typesof people that were there people
that are both firm believers inthe Catholic faith and in
Christ and Jesus and, you know,in the our Lord, and then other
couples where you know one hasbeen baptized and doesn't really
know where they're at and theother one not at all, and or one
(08:17):
that's, you know, firm in theirfaith and the other one not
sure.
But and then you ask them whythey get those that are not sure
why are they getting married atchurch?
Some say it's because to pleasethe other, the one that actually
believes, and those that arekind of hesitant because they
don't know where they're at.
Well, they say because it'smore solemn, it adds some weight
(08:41):
.
Is that the right word?
Yeah, solemn, yeah, absolutely.
It adds some weight.
Is that the right word?
Yeah, exhalam, yeah, absolutely.
And to me that just causesquestions and brings up
questions, because you're like,what's the point?
I mean just because you know,in the traditional sense of
things, people go to church toget married, and so you don't
believe in it.
But it's what's been done.
(09:02):
So there's, you know, on theone side there's tradition, and
so you're, because people wantto get married in a church, it
obliges them to go to marriageprep in a parish, and so it
obliges them to go back to aparish and to reconnect, at
least, you know, three times onthe three different Sundays, or
at least once, if you know,depends on which on the parish
is the program, becausesometimes it's one day, you know
(09:24):
, or 12 times during the week,or doesn't really matter.
But so you're asking them tocome back and to interact with
the Catholic Church.
So at least there's that.
Then, on the other hand andmaybe I'm too idealist I ask I
question the process and askwell, what's the point?
I question the process and askwell, what's the point?
(09:46):
I mean, if the person does notbelieve, why bring them here?
Because it's a marriage of anuneducated I don't know what the
word is in the catechism but aperson that does not know.
They do not know the gracesthey will receive, and so
because they do not know,whether they get a civil wedding
or a Catholic wedding, itdoesn't matter, because they're
(10:09):
unaware of the graces they willreceive.
And if they were unaware andthey only had a civil wedding
but then they become awarebecause they get familiar with
the Catholic faith, well thenthe graces of the Catholic
wedding can fall onto them, butit doesn't matter.
The thing that changes is themoment when they start believing
(10:32):
.
And so if they start believingafter the wedding, why not get
just married at the town hall?
So that's kind of my position,but you might not.
I mean, it's only my thoughts.
I totally understand.
It's kind of my position, butyou might not.
Sheila Nonato (10:43):
I mean, okay, yeah, I totally understand.
It's kind of like FirstCommunion yeah, is that you know
?
I mean it's great that they doreceive it, right.
But, um, I think some peoplefind this like you were talking
about prep, preparation so thefirst for some First Communion,
you know, those uh, meetings,preparation, like some people
find it inconvenience, right,because like they just want to
(11:04):
get to the event and then theparty, because you know it's
nice to see all dressed up.
You know white dress and theveil and everything.
So for your dress, actually,are you gonna be wearing a veil?
I don't want to give anythingaway, you know, in case your
fiancee would hear about it, butare you wearing a veil, are you
?
How did you first of all, howdid you find this dress?
Casssandre Verhelst (11:27):
It's funny because, um, actually mom, um,
found the name of the, um, ofthe, of the man that's making
the dress, of the tailor, um,because she herself went to that
tailor 20 years ago for, um, adress, not her wedding dress,
but just a dress to go to awedding and um, and so it's a
couple, the wife and the husbandand the wife, when we came back
(11:48):
with mom, um, you know, a fewmonths ago to get my dress made,
she's like yeah, I recognizeyou, you came for a purple dress
.
No, and I was shocked.
I was like how does this ladyremember that mom came for a
purple dress 20 years ago?
But so it's, um, it's belg,it's a Belgian tailor that makes
custom dresses, and so I foundone that I liked and I asked him
(12:10):
to create kind of a mix betweendifferent styles, and I'm going
back next week, end of nextweek, to see the final results.
I'm very excited.
Sheila Nonato (12:22):
Wow, beautiful.
And are you going to look likeGrace Kelly?
How is the style?
Audrey Hepburn, what's yourstyle?
Casssandre Verhelst (12:30):
I like things that are elegant but not
over the top, so it's going tobe quite simple.
Simple and structured.
I hope that Adrien will listen.
With a collar, oh, okay, with acollar.
Co-Host (12:44):
Oh, ok, the collar, and then.
Casssandre Verhelst (12:46):
OK, because that's.
Sheila Nonato (12:48):
Yeah, for me as well.
I'm wondering if Prince,Princess Grace, she became
Princess Grace after she married, I think, the Prince of Monaco,
Grace Kelly.
Yeah, I think she might havehad that collar.
I'm trying to remember now, butyeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (13:00):
Well, I think it was more closed in my,
in my.
Okay, yeah, it was closed.
Yeah, yeah, it was yeah.
No, it was very closed and longsleeves no, and long sleeves
yes yes, yes yeah, yeah, yeah,or maybe like megan markel, but
it's like structured sort of no,exactly, exactly, kind of like
that, yeah, kind of like thatand no not lace.
Sheila Nonato (13:21):
Okay, it's hot, it's going to be hot, so right
in summer, um, and are youwearing a veil?
Did you decide to do somethingelse?
Yeah?
Casssandre Verhelst (13:30):
Yeah, a veil.
Um, I'm not very tall.
I'm not very tall, so, um, itwon't be very long, okay, um,
but uh, yeah, a veil.
And um, and I would have lovedto wear my mother's veil, but
it's not the right white and soit's not.
I won't be able to use it.
But I don't know if in the U.
(13:53):
S.
you also have this tradition,but sometimes moms use their
veils to cover their baby'scribs afterwards.
Sheila Nonato (14:00):
Oh, wow, I didn't know about this, I would have
done it.
Casssandre Verhelst (14:08):
I guess I didn't know what I would have
done it.
No, I guess I didn't know whatdo I do with this?
Yeah, so to cover your baby'scrib.
Um, yeah, against mosquitoes,but also for decoration.
Sheila Nonato (14:13):
Beautiful, well in.
I think it's in North America,I'm not sure, but apparently you
keep your wedding cake, a sliceof it, in the freezer right
here and you eat it later.
I don't know if that's such asuch a great, but actually um,
since my husband is in the armyand his Regiment, uh, where he
used to be um, is related toking charles.
(14:35):
Prince charles, when he wasstill a prince he's the prince
charles was the Colonel-in-Chiefof this regiment, this Canadian
regiment.
So when Prince Charles andPrincess Diana were married,
they sent over the top of theirwedding cake to the regiment,
the Canadian regiment (RoyalRegiment of Canada), and it's
sitting somewhere in Toronto.
(14:56):
I'm not going to say wherebecause in case someone wants to
do something to it, but anywayit's sitting safely somewhere in
Toronto.
Do something to it, but anywayit's sitting safely somewhere in
Toronto.
The top is perfectly preservedbecause I guess they used
fondant and some kind offruitcake or something.
Yeah, I took pictures of it andthere's like a note on it.
I think it's, you know,officially from the couple to
(15:17):
the soldiers, but they decidednot to eat it so they just
preserved it.
But anyway, I don't know, it'slike's like.
Are you gonna be doing thatsaving a slice and eating it a
year later?
Cassandre Verhelst (15:30):
Um well, we, I'm not, no, we won't have a
cake I have tons of little um,uh, tons of little cakes and
little um desserts, but not onebig cake, not one big one okay,
okay, no.
Sheila Nonato (15:44):
Okay, that's probably a good idea because
they can last.
They can, you know, cost up to$1,000, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, ours was 600.
I don't know it was like thewhole pricing of how many people
.
And then it was like I wantedit to have Filipino flowers and
like made out of fondant.
Anyway, you know, okay, I knowmy husband's going to listen to
(16:07):
this, but because, like you weresaying, there were desserts at
our reception, there were lotsof desserts and chocolate cake
and people did not eat thewedding cake, so we had to take
most of it home.
It's bad, anyways, but ittasted good after a year later,
perfect.
(16:27):
Anyway, it was the mostexpensive cake, but you know,
it's okay, it's all right.
Casssandre Verhelst (16:33):
At least you know you have a story to
tell on the podcast.
Sheila Nonato (16:37):
Yeah, and the really terrible one is, my
husband ordered this cake topperfrom Texas and we were trying
to keep what I was going to weara secret.
So he said can you email thislady what your dress would look
like?
So this lady made his uniform,the figurine in his uniform, red
scarlet uniform, beautiful.
(16:58):
And then I was made into afigurine and it was supposed to
go on top of the cake.
But because of all the you knowhow it is right, like so many
things, to remember, and Iforgot it.
I forgot it and I couldn't, Icouldn't go back to get it, it
was too far.
Anyways, I feel so bad about it.
(17:19):
But our 15th anniversary iscoming up, so I was thinking I'm
going to have a cake, not a$600 cake.
I might make it myself andstick it on there.
I don't know.
Yeah, he doesn't want to see it.
So I don't know if it's likecause trauma?
No, I'm just joking.
I'm just joking, but anyway,back to you.
(17:39):
So I forgot to ask you.
So, your soon-to-be husband,how did you meet?
And then the proposal yeah,yeah, if you don't mind.
Casssandre Verhelst (17:48):
No, of course not um, we actually met
on exchange when we werestudents, um, at the um, at the
parish group, at the students umprayer group, on wednesday
evenings, there were um, thereare prayer, there are prayer,
there are prayer groups in thatparish, still for students and
um, and so I I noticed, quite,uh, I noticed him and I thought,
(18:13):
okay, I want to be friends withthis guy and and he had noticed
me at um, at a Mass on aprevious Sunday, and so it was
um.
So maybe just that a word ofencouragement to uh, to make
your uh, your daughters and yoursons or your yourself um, go to
go to Catholic um groups where,where students and when people
(18:36):
can can meet up because, um, youcan find the love of your life
and um, and so I had seen himand I think I, I'm, I think
that's really a grace that Ireceived and, and so I had seen
him and I think I'm, I thinkthat's really a grace that I
received, and and I and I thankthe Lord for that Because I very
, from very early on, aftermaybe two or three weeks of
knowing him, I thought I thoughtto myself, okay, I'm going to
marry this guy, and so I am, andso I knew that at the bottom of
(19:01):
my heart kind of like this,this baseline of decision, but
at the bottom of my heart kindof like this baseline of
decision, but at the same time Ithought we're so different,
there are so many things thatare a little bit off or that I'm
not at ease with or that Idon't understand, or I don't
understand why he's reactinglike that and why he's testing
me, and so I think we were bothkind of reserved and I think
(19:24):
that Paul Edrin was kind oftesting me in the beginning to
see, okay, who's this girl, andso that, you know, made us get
to know each other.
And we had to your standards,sheila, quite a long engagement
because we were engaged for ayear and a half, but I think it
was a year and a half.
(19:44):
That was really necessarybecause even if you have that
kind of decision or thatintuition at the beginning, it
can get confirmed with time.
And our engagement had its upsand downs, because when you get
to know someone, you get to knowthem entirely and you see all
(20:05):
of their um, all of their traits, but also all the things that
they're less proud of um andtheir weaknesses and so, and so
you know, when you discover them, you have to ask yourself, okay
, am I ready to love that and amI ready to to um, to commit
myself to this person?
And knowing that I had had thatthought and that really deep
(20:27):
intuition and peace when Ithought of this guy and told
myself, okay, I want to marryhim, it was pretty impressive
and actually pretty reassuring,because we are very different.
But it was the first time thatI thought, thought, okay, this
is the person I'm going to marrybecause I can feel, I can see
(20:47):
it and feel it.
So that was um pretty luckybeautiful.
Sheila Nonato (20:53):
So, um, so I can understand what you mean, like
the differences and, um, I guess, did you, how did you sort of
navigate through that, did you?
I mean, what was?
Did it come out in the marriageprep or conversations about
marriage after marriage prep?
So yeah, how did you guysnavigate that?
Casssandre Verhelst (21:14):
Yeah, I think what was the most
interesting during this marriageprep, because with Peredron,
what we did was we went to ourlocal parish.
What we did was we went to ourlocal parish.
But we also went on twodifferent retreats, and one that
was just incredible, in thesouth of France and if you know,
the listeners speak French.
I would so encourage them tolook into that.
(21:37):
It's by the friars of the Abbeyof La Grasse, l-a-g-r-a-s-s-e,
and they don't state themselvesas marriage pros, but de facto
they're very good.
They're very good, and so theyinvite couples to come and spend
(22:00):
a weekend at their abbey.
But they also go to the maincities in France and there are
300 to 400 couples, so that's800 people listening in
auditoriums to what thesefollowers have to say.
It's impressive and it's veryrich.
And then, maybe the thing thatmarked me the most was the fact
(22:21):
that they really pushed on thestatement that men and women are
built differently.
And you know, we know it, ofcourse we know it, but really
taking the time to understand it.
Having different couples comeand tell you you are different,
you will react differently.
Physically you are madedifferent, emotionally You're
(22:42):
made different, and the Lordwanted it that way.
He created men and women, um,and he didn't, uh, copy and
paste.
And so, understanding thatthose, um, that we're going to
complement each other, and thenunderstand also that we are
going to react differently todifferent to the same situation,
and and so, uh, reactingdifferently to the same
(23:05):
situation allows you to, um, tosee.
Sheila, do you want me to startover?
Sheila Nonato (23:12):
Sorry, it's just, my daughter was jumping around.
Hold on just a second.
Can you just go over there,please?
(Sheila is laughing) No, it'sokay, sorry, sorry sorry, no, no
, that's fine.
Casssandre Verhelst (23:24):
I thought when we edit audio it's easier
to start over and cut.
Sheila Nonato (23:27):
Yeah, it's okay.
So did you want to continueabout the retreat?
Casssandre Verhelst (23:31):
Yeah, so maybe the thing that interested
me the most and that marked methe most in that marriage prep
was the fact that differentcouples and different priests
and fathers gave us speeches andinterventions on interventions
isn't the right word gave usspeeches on how we are different
(23:52):
and we're going to reactdifferently to the same
situation, and so that'ssomething that was the hardest
for Paul-Hedri and me, because Ithink I'm very feminine and
he's very masculine.
I think I'm very feminine andhe's very masculine, and so, but
in the way of working in ourbrains and in our heads and in
our reactions, and so dealingwith ups and downs and a
(24:14):
constant line, how do you makethat fit?
And so how do you make that fit?
By knowing that you're going toreact differently.
And so knowing is from.
Knowledge is power.
Actually, we all know it and soI think that you advance and
you accept your differences ifyou know that they're there and
that you don't expect the otherto react the same way like you.
(24:36):
And so that's kind of, maybe onthe more intellectual way of
handling things.
And then, concretely as well, ishow do you deal with the fact
that you come from differentfamilies and that your mothers
react differently and educateyou differently?
You can have kind of the sameglobal education and values and
(24:56):
I think we're very lucky in thesense that we grew up in the
same places with the same kindof background but the emotional
education you get is completelydifferent because you don't have
the same person giving it toyou.
And so now, as we're preparingour, our wedding and not
preparing our marriage, butlogistically preparing the
(25:17):
wedding Well, you see that onefamily takes their decisions
very in advance and then, oncethe decision has been made, you
stick to it and you move on tothe next, whereas I come from a
family where we can talk 10times about the same subject and
until the moment wheresomething's paid and we're past
the deadline, we can come backon the decision 10, 12 times, it
(25:38):
doesn't really matter and we'regoing to call each other back
once then another time.
And just how do you mix the factthat you have one family that's
straightforward and one familythat's kind of in loops?
You're educated in that way,and so you start thinking that
way and then, and then again,the I think, the fact and what
told me and is um, their, their,their virtues in both of those
(26:04):
ways of working, and so we justneed to grab the good in each
and and put them together so wecan create a better and and so.
So that was kind of theeducation, and then the
emotional and then the differentthings of you know, one person
talks a lot and the other personlistens not.
Well, you have to make spacefor the other as well.
Sheila Nonato (26:25):
Okay, and so did you get.
Were you asked to read books?
Cassandre Verhelst (26:32):
Yeah, different books.
Casssandre Verhelst (26:34):
Yeah, we had quite a big list actually,
and I think the two that stoodout were the book by those
priests of La Grasse and anotherone by the Father Poitier
(spelling?
), who is a French-Parisianpriest, and it's called "Since
(26:55):
you have Decided to Love EachOther, in French, and that has
been very insightful and it wasimpressive because it was a
friend's mom that told us youguys should read this.
It's more for married couples,but it can be interesting as
well, and actually it's contentthat speaks to a variety of
different people, from peoplethat are discerning to those
(27:18):
that have decided to get married, to those that are in their
first years of marriage.
It's because you have decidedto love each other.
Here are the things that you'regoing to have to do, and that
kind of echoes with at themoment.
In France, to get married atchurch, you have to write a
declaration of intention.
I don't know if you have to dothat also in canada, actually.
Sheila Nonato (27:40):
No, we don't, no.
Casssandre Verhelst (27:42):
And so it's me, Cassandre, um, on the, on
the.
You know, right before mywedding, I want to commit myself
and I commit to um.
This, that and this is in thatand one of the, and so it's.
We have to talk about the fourpillars of marriage, which are
fidelity, loyalty, and loyaltyand fidelity are the same thing.
(28:05):
So fidelity, freedom.
Fruitfulness so how you willbear fruit through your children
or, if you don't have children,in another way.
And indissolubility, so thefact that you're getting married
for life and when you startwith the last one, you decide to
(28:31):
love each other every day, andso the book that the priest, the
Father Pote, wrote reallyresponds and echoes with that.
Sheila Nonato (28:41):
Wow, I'm really impressed with the level of
maturity that you and yourfiancé have, because most people
are probably worried about theparty, right, like what's going
to be the hors d'oeuvres, what'sthe main course, of course.
But you guys are like, how dowe navigate through our
weaknesses, through ourdifferences, how do we work
(29:04):
through that?
Because, like you said, men andwomen are different and they
have different ways ofcommunicating.
I think that's the main.
If there is one thing that Ican impart on you, having been
married for 15 years, iscommunication is so important.
Prayer, obviously number one,and then communication with each
(29:26):
other and with God.
But, yeah, that's reallybecause you don't want to find
out later on that you can'tcommunicate, because that would
be well, it's not impossible toovercome.
But if you're already ahead ofthe game and you have some
strategies to try to understandeach other, um and that's
(29:47):
amazing, is there?
Okay, do you have any tips?
Like what, what?
What are like the top tips youfound out?
Uh, that you can share with,with people who are preparing to
get married, who are engaged?
Casssandre Verhelst (29:58):
Yeah, Well, I think again at that marriage
prep in the south of France.
Something that really marked meand that I left the retreat
with was a couple that said thatthey had been married and they
had gone through some roughpatches.
And when they were in thoserough patches they saw a lot of
the other's weaknesses and thebad traits.
(30:21):
And they said something thatwas interesting was, rather than
being angry about your spouse'sweaknesses, ask yourself,
because behind every weakness isa strength.
What is the strength behindthat weakness that made me fall
in love with him and make theeffort, and make the conscious
effort to switch your mindsetand to go find the strength
(30:43):
behind that weakness.
And so the wife gave an exampleof saying he drove me nuts
because he didn't take any moredecisions.
I had to do all of the.
I had to take all of thedecisions.
Think of you know, move thefamily and the wagon forward.
And it was super hard for me.
And she said but then I realizedthat behind the fact of not
(31:06):
taking decisions is a personthat thinks a lot and that
analyzes the differentpossibilities and that sees the
outcomes and imagines theoutcomes.
And she didn't have thatstrength because she was more
spontaneous.
And so she said, the moment Irealized that, behind the fact
that he was not taking decisions, but he was thinking about the
(31:29):
different consequences and hewas sharing them with me, it
allowed me to then take thedecision that I thought was best
, in knowing what the outcomewould be, or at least having
thought of it.
And so it was impressivebecause, she said, we became
better when I realized that itwas complimentary and when I
(31:49):
made the effort to go find thegood behind what was bothering
me.
And so that was one of theexamples that she gave me.
And so that was one of theexamples that she gave, and it
was um it.
It really echoed with mebecause, going into that retreat
, I was asking myself thecommitment is huge.
How are you sure that in 40years, you're not going to be
exasperated by some of yourhusband's traits?
(32:11):
Well, you won't be exasperatedif, behind what exasperates you,
you think of the positive andthe strengths that are in him.
Sheila Nonato (32:25):
Yes, and that's definitely a positive way of
looking at something that mightirritate a person about someone.
And you know, when you you'redating it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter, but I guess whenyou're you know living together
24/ 7 it might but having thatsupernatural outlook that you
(32:47):
know, yeah, everyone has faultsand weaknesses and and yeah, why
?
Why did I fall in love with thisperson in the first place?
It's not because of you, know,like I was able to overcome
whatever he didn't uh, put theremote back in the right place
or something, I don't know,whatever people have find
annoying, but um.
But also to remember to comeback to the sort of the glue, uh
(33:11):
, of prayer, as you guys startedoff in prayer group or in the
youth group, which I'm sure youprayed, but was prayer also part
of your courtship?
Yeah, it was.
Yeah, can you tell us?
Casssandre Verhelst (33:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, when you don't getinvited on a date, but you do
get invited to mass, you'relikely to say yes, yeah, yeah,
yeah, and one of the things thatone of the priests told us is
that there's no conjugalhappiness without conjugal
holiness and there's no conjugalholiness without conjugal
(33:47):
prayer, and so that's one of thebig reflection access that we
had during our engagement washow or at least on my side how
are we going to pray together?
Because you have to mix a lot ofthings, and in those lots of
things you have to mix is yourprayer sensibility and the way
(34:09):
you pray.
So you have those that prayvery silently and very
internally and those that aremuch more charismatic, and in
French, and those that are muchmore charismatic and in French
we say, those that unscrew lightbulbs.
I don't know if you have thesame joke in English, but so how
do you mix that?
And for me, that was kind ofnot a stress point, but
(34:30):
something that I didn't know howwe were going to do.
And one of the priests told usdo not ever stop compromising,
and especially not in yourprayer life, because the moment
you stop compromising in yourprayer life, your conjugal
prayer life, is the moment whenyou're going to stop
compromising in everything.
It's the most important thing.
So never, ever say okay, we'reincompatible in the way we pray,
(34:55):
we're not going to praytogether, incompatible in the
way we pray, we're not going topray together.
And so the answer that I got,at least during this marriage
prep and this engagement time,was you don't have to pray half
an hour together every day.
It's completely okay to justsay the Our Father together, and
that can be your conjugalprayer, and you might have
(35:15):
different views, sheila, buthaving just something easy and a
basis and use as a basis and,with Paul Adrien, what we we so
we do have different ways ofpraying, but we can agree on our
father and we can also agree onadoration and mass, and so
that's something that reallythat keeps us going together and
(35:38):
that makes us meet in themiddle is we have an hour of
adoration per week together andthen we try and go to Mass on
top of Sundays, but go to Masstogether once a week.
And it's not asking forpersonal input.
I mean the Lord is alreadythere and so you just have to go
and meet Him.
(35:58):
He's waiting for you there,
Sheila Nonato (36:02):
Yes, and I really like how you phrase that.
Like you know, the path tomarital holiness is really
through.
Well, the path to maritalhappiness, sorry is through.
Marital holiness is throughprayer, and I think, dr scott,
hon was the one who saidmarriage is the exchange of.
(36:22):
It's a covenant.
Uh, the marriage covenant is anexchange of persons, and so
your path to heaven is throughyour future husband and his is
through you, and so the theholier you are, the more you're
going to both go together ineternity, to spend eternity with
God and with your children, godwilling, yeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (36:47):
And maybe to add to that, Sheila and I
don't know if we talked about itlast time, but Zita of Habsburg
(the Last Empress of Austria)explained how prayer worked in
her marriage to hergrandchildren by talking about a
triangle, and on top of thetriangle is the Lord, On the
left was Charles and on theright she put her name and she
(37:07):
said if we grow closer to theLord, we're going to grow closer
to each other.
And so if we want to get closerto each other, we need to grow
closer to the Lord because bynature, it's going to make us
get closer to each other.
We need to grow closer to theLord because, by nature, it's
going to make us become closerto each other.
So I thought that was superimpressive, because if you do
keep your eyes on them, keepyour eyes on the prize, if you
(37:30):
keep your eyes on the prize ofJesus' love, I think you're
going to get there, because it'sa grace and you have to have
confidence in the fact that theLord is taking that commitment
with the both of us.
Sheila Nonato (37:42):
Thank you very much to Cassandre Verhelst for
being a guest on our podcastsince last year, starting with
the Million Roses for MotherMary campaign, and then talking
about the Paris Olympics, andthe Three Million roses for
Mother Mary campaign which wasachieved by Hozana prayer
(38:03):
warriors, as I call them, and Ido wish her and her, I pray for
her and her husband to have abeautiful and holy marriage and
hope to see her again.
Thank you, and God bless you,Cassandre, and your husband, and
(38:26):
looking forward to chattingwith you again Congratulations
on your wedding, Miss Cassandre.
God bless, God bless.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armour podcast.
Co-Host (38:48):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic Mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
If we grow closer to the Lord, we're going
to grow closer to each other,and so if we want to get closer
to each other, we need to growcloser to the Lord because, by
nature, it's going to make usbecome closer to each other.
So I thought that was superimpressive, because if you do
keep your eyes on them, keepyour eyes on the prize, if you
(00:21):
keep your eyes on the prize ofJesus' love.
Co-Host (00:25):
I think you're going to get there.
Casssandre Verhelst (00:26):
Because it's a grace and you have to
have confidence in the fact thatthe Lord is taking that
commitment with the both of us.
Sheila Nonato (00:36):
Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast.
This is your host, SheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist,
Seeking the guidance of the HolySpirit and the inspiration of
Our Lady.
Host, Sheila Nonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist,
Seeking the guidance of the HolySpirit and the inspiration of
Our Lady.
I strive to tell stories thatinspire, illuminate and enrich
the lives of Catholic women tohelp them in living out our
vocation of raising the nextgeneration of leaders and saints
(00:59):
.
Co-Host (01:00):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Sheila Nonato (01:07):
"Love is patient and kind.
Love is not jealous or boastful.
It is not arrogant or rude.
Love does not insist on its ownway.
It is not irritable orresentful.
It does not rejoice at wrong,but rejoices in the right.
Love bears all things, believesall things, hopes all things,
(01:32):
endures all things.
Now I know in part, then Ishall understand fully even as I
have been fully understood.
So faith, hope, love, abide,these three, but the greatest of
these is love.
"Welcome to Cassandre Verhelst,
(01:54):
and it is bittersweet, as she'sgetting married in a week: the
civil wedding, and then thewedding and the church after
that.
But she's also going to beleaving Hozana and I'm very sad
about that.
But I'm still going to be goingto Hosanna to you know, pray
with the community.
But yes, Cassandre, please tellus first of all, how are you
(02:16):
doing?
Casssandre Verhelst (02:17):
I'm doing very good.
I'm super excited to getmarried, and so I'm.
With all of those emotions, I'mlooking forward to this new
chapter and a new life togetherwith my fiancé okay, well,
amazing well let's start with aprayer then, if you would mind
please yeah, " plaine de grâce.
Cassandre Verhelst (02:41):
Le Seigneur est avec vous.
Vous êtes bénie entre toutesles femmes, et Jésus, le fruit
de vos entrailles est béni.
Sainte Marie, mère de Dieu,priez pour nos pauvres pécheurs,
maintenant et à l'heure denotre mort.
Amen.
"
Sheila Nonato (02:59):
Au nom du Pere, et du fils, et du Saint Esprit,
Amen.
", that's as far as the Frenchgoes, for me it's been a while,
but thank you for that beautifulprayer in French of the Hail
Mary.
So, yeah, sorry for being nosy,but your wedding is in a week,
the civil wedding.
Tell us again, how does it work?
In France, there are twoweddings, yeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (03:20):
Well, in France, you have to first get
married at the town hall beforeyou're allowed to get married at
the church hall, before you'reallowed to get married at the
church, and so we decided to dothis in two different spots.
The town hall wedding will bein my fiance's region, and then
we're going to get marriedreligiously.
And that's how you call thedifference the civil wedding and
(03:43):
the religious wedding at leastFrench between Paris and
Brussels, because I'm actuallyfrom Brussels, and so midway we
found a church that could hostus for a mass, and then we'll
have a small reception next tothat, and so the first step is
(04:05):
this Saturday.
So I'm very excited.
It's a small step because it'sjust papers, but nonetheless
it's the step where you changeyour name Legally, you become
Mrs and not Miss and your newlast name, and you officialize
and you make official yourengagement in front of society.
Sheila Nonato (04:30):
Okay, and so everyone has to go through this
right.
You can't skip the civil right,yeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (04:36):
Or else it won't be recognized, unless
you're very sly and you go toanother country to get married.
Sheila Nonato (04:41):
Okay, okay, and then so tell us.
So you have a dress, but it'snot your.
It's not your wedding dress,right, it's a simpler dress.
Casssandre Verhelst (04:51):
Yeah, it's a simpler dress because, I mean,
you can do it as you like, andwe decided to kind of keep it
simple because it's it's in thecountryside, it's with just our
family, you can kind of choosethe form you want it to take.
Legally, you have to have atleast two witnesses for the
couple, so one each, and wedecided to have two each because
(05:16):
that's the to ask some of ourfriends to be there on that
special day.
And then, concretely, I'm goingto have a red dress with
flowers and and then we inviteto.
We invited our aunts and unclesand our grandmothers and our
family and our a few of ourclose friends to to come in and
(05:37):
spend the weekend in thecountryside right after so, to
spend some time all together.
Sheila Nonato (05:44):
Oh, wow, okay, Beautiful, beautiful, and and
then.
So then, after when is thechurch wedding?
Do you have to wait for acertain period of time, or how
do you?
Casssandre Verhelst (05:54):
No, and actually, on the contrary, you
ideally get married civillyright before your religious
wedding.
Um, because one of the prieststhat um that prepared us
prepares couples here in France,in Paris, said I mean, if you
end your engagement and youdecide not to get married in the
(06:15):
end, but you got marriedcivilly a year before or three
months before, first of all ittakes away some of your freedom
and, second of all, you'll bedivorced.
First of all, it takes away someof your freedom and second of
all, you'll be divorced.
You'll be divorced because youmight not have taken up and gone
through with the religiousceremony but in the eyes of the
state you were married.
(06:35):
And so often there are kind oftwo teams those that get married
just before because they makeit one event, and then those
that for different circumstances, because it's important to get
married in your hometown orbecause it's important for this
or that reason it's separatedand with more time in between.
Sheila Nonato (06:56):
Okay.
So do most people do the churchwedding, or do they just like
if they're not Catholic, do theyjust, I guess?
Or even if they are Catholic,do they still do the church?
Or is they are catholic, dothey do they still do the church
?
Or is it sort of a few rightnow and yeah?
Casssandre Verhelst (07:11):
Well, they're no, honestly, not a lot
of people get married at church.
And and what what I foundpretty impressive was, um, we
went to with paul adrian, to amarriage prep, um, in our parish
, because to get married in apair found to get married in the
catholic church, at least infrance you have to get married
in a parish.
To get married in the CatholicChurch, at least in France, you
have to have gone through somesort of marriage preparation,
either with a priest, with areligious community or in your
(07:32):
parish.
And so the priest that'smarrying us asked us to go to a
marriage prep in our parish.
And so we went to the parishclosest to our new house, our
new apartment, and there I wassurprised because there was an
(07:55):
array and just different typesof people that were there people
that are both firm believers inthe Catholic faith and in
Christ and Jesus and, you know,in the our Lord, and then other
couples where you know one hasbeen baptized and doesn't really
know where they're at and theother one not at all, and or one
(08:17):
that's, you know, firm in theirfaith and the other one not
sure.
But and then you ask them whythey get those that are not sure
why are they getting married atchurch?
Some say it's because to pleasethe other, the one that actually
believes, and those that arekind of hesitant because they
don't know where they're at.
Well, they say because it'smore solemn, it adds some weight
(08:41):
.
Is that the right word?
Yeah, solemn, yeah, absolutely.
It adds some weight.
Is that the right word?
Yeah, exhalam, yeah, absolutely.
And to me that just causesquestions and brings up
questions, because you're like,what's the point?
I mean just because you know,in the traditional sense of
things, people go to church toget married, and so you don't
believe in it.
But it's what's been done.
(09:02):
So there's, you know, on theone side there's tradition, and
so you're, because people wantto get married in a church, it
obliges them to go to marriageprep in a parish, and so it
obliges them to go back to aparish and to reconnect, at
least, you know, three times onthe three different Sundays, or
at least once, if you know,depends on which on the parish
is the program, becausesometimes it's one day, you know
(09:24):
, or 12 times during the week,or doesn't really matter.
But so you're asking them tocome back and to interact with
the Catholic Church.
So at least there's that.
Then, on the other hand andmaybe I'm too idealist I ask I
question the process and askwell, what's the point?
I question the process and askwell, what's the point?
(09:46):
I mean, if the person does notbelieve, why bring them here?
Because it's a marriage of anuneducated I don't know what the
word is in the catechism but aperson that does not know.
They do not know the gracesthey will receive, and so
because they do not know,whether they get a civil wedding
or a Catholic wedding, itdoesn't matter, because they're
(10:09):
unaware of the graces they willreceive.
And if they were unaware andthey only had a civil wedding
but then they become awarebecause they get familiar with
the Catholic faith, well thenthe graces of the Catholic
wedding can fall onto them, butit doesn't matter.
The thing that changes is themoment when they start believing
(10:32):
.
And so if they start believingafter the wedding, why not get
just married at the town hall?
So that's kind of my position,but you might not.
I mean, it's only my thoughts.
I totally understand.
It's kind of my position, butyou might not.
Sheila Nonato (10:43):
I mean, okay, yeah, I totally understand.
It's kind of like FirstCommunion yeah, is that you know
?
I mean it's great that they doreceive it, right.
But, um, I think some peoplefind this like you were talking
about prep, preparation so thefirst for some First Communion,
you know, those uh, meetings,preparation, like some people
find it inconvenience, right,because like they just want to
(11:04):
get to the event and then theparty, because you know it's
nice to see all dressed up.
You know white dress and theveil and everything.
So for your dress, actually,are you gonna be wearing a veil?
I don't want to give anythingaway, you know, in case your
fiancee would hear about it, butare you wearing a veil, are you
?
How did you first of all, howdid you find this dress?
Casssandre Verhelst (11:27):
It's funny because, um, actually mom, um,
found the name of the, um, ofthe, of the man that's making
the dress, of the tailor, um,because she herself went to that
tailor 20 years ago for, um, adress, not her wedding dress,
but just a dress to go to awedding and um, and so it's a
couple, the wife and the husbandand the wife, when we came back
(11:48):
with mom, um, you know, a fewmonths ago to get my dress made,
she's like yeah, I recognizeyou, you came for a purple dress
.
No, and I was shocked.
I was like how does this ladyremember that mom came for a
purple dress 20 years ago?
But so it's, um, it's belg,it's a Belgian tailor that makes
custom dresses, and so I foundone that I liked and I asked him
(12:10):
to create kind of a mix betweendifferent styles, and I'm going
back next week, end of nextweek, to see the final results.
I'm very excited.
Sheila Nonato (12:22):
Wow, beautiful.
And are you going to look likeGrace Kelly?
How is the style?
Audrey Hepburn, what's yourstyle?
Casssandre Verhelst (12:30):
I like things that are elegant but not
over the top, so it's going tobe quite simple.
Simple and structured.
I hope that Adrien will listen.
With a collar, oh, okay, with acollar.
Co-Host (12:44):
Oh, ok, the collar, and then.
Casssandre Verhelst (12:46):
OK, because that's.
Sheila Nonato (12:48):
Yeah, for me as well.
I'm wondering if Prince,Princess Grace, she became
Princess Grace after she married, I think, the Prince of Monaco,
Grace Kelly.
Yeah, I think she might havehad that collar.
I'm trying to remember now, butyeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (13:00):
Well, I think it was more closed in my,
in my.
Okay, yeah, it was closed.
Yeah, yeah, it was yeah.
No, it was very closed and longsleeves no, and long sleeves
yes yes, yes yeah, yeah, yeah,or maybe like megan markel, but
it's like structured sort of no,exactly, exactly, kind of like
that, yeah, kind of like thatand no not lace.
Sheila Nonato (13:21):
Okay, it's hot, it's going to be hot, so right
in summer, um, and are youwearing a veil?
Did you decide to do somethingelse?
Yeah?
Casssandre Verhelst (13:30):
Yeah, a veil.
Um, I'm not very tall.
I'm not very tall, so, um, itwon't be very long, okay, um,
but uh, yeah, a veil.
And um, and I would have lovedto wear my mother's veil, but
it's not the right white and soit's not.
I won't be able to use it.
But I don't know if in the U.
(13:53):
S.
you also have this tradition,but sometimes moms use their
veils to cover their baby'scribs afterwards.
Sheila Nonato (14:00):
Oh, wow, I didn't know about this, I would have
done it.
Casssandre Verhelst (14:08):
I guess I didn't know what I would have
done it.
No, I guess I didn't know whatdo I do with this?
Yeah, so to cover your baby'scrib.
Um, yeah, against mosquitoes,but also for decoration.
Sheila Nonato (14:13):
Beautiful, well in.
I think it's in North America,I'm not sure, but apparently you
keep your wedding cake, a sliceof it, in the freezer right
here and you eat it later.
I don't know if that's such asuch a great, but actually um,
since my husband is in the armyand his Regiment, uh, where he
used to be um, is related toking charles.
(14:35):
Prince charles, when he wasstill a prince he's the prince
charles was the Colonel-in-Chiefof this regiment, this Canadian
regiment.
So when Prince Charles andPrincess Diana were married,
they sent over the top of theirwedding cake to the regiment,
the Canadian regiment (RoyalRegiment of Canada), and it's
sitting somewhere in Toronto.
(14:56):
I'm not going to say wherebecause in case someone wants to
do something to it, but anywayit's sitting safely somewhere in
Toronto.
Do something to it, but anywayit's sitting safely somewhere in
Toronto.
The top is perfectly preservedbecause I guess they used
fondant and some kind offruitcake or something.
Yeah, I took pictures of it andthere's like a note on it.
I think it's, you know,officially from the couple to
(15:17):
the soldiers, but they decidednot to eat it so they just
preserved it.
But anyway, I don't know, it'slike's like.
Are you gonna be doing thatsaving a slice and eating it a
year later?
Cassandre Verhelst (15:30):
Um well, we, I'm not, no, we won't have a
cake I have tons of little um,uh, tons of little cakes and
little um desserts, but not onebig cake, not one big one okay,
okay, no.
Sheila Nonato (15:44):
Okay, that's probably a good idea because
they can last.
They can, you know, cost up to$1,000, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, ours was 600.
I don't know it was like thewhole pricing of how many people
.
And then it was like I wantedit to have Filipino flowers and
like made out of fondant.
Anyway, you know, okay, I knowmy husband's going to listen to
(16:07):
this, but because, like you weresaying, there were desserts at
our reception, there were lotsof desserts and chocolate cake
and people did not eat thewedding cake, so we had to take
most of it home.
It's bad, anyways, but ittasted good after a year later,
perfect.
(16:27):
Anyway, it was the mostexpensive cake, but you know,
it's okay, it's all right.
Casssandre Verhelst (16:33):
At least you know you have a story to
tell on the podcast.
Sheila Nonato (16:37):
Yeah, and the really terrible one is, my
husband ordered this cake topperfrom Texas and we were trying
to keep what I was going to weara secret.
So he said can you email thislady what your dress would look
like?
So this lady made his uniform,the figurine in his uniform, red
scarlet uniform, beautiful.
(16:58):
And then I was made into afigurine and it was supposed to
go on top of the cake.
But because of all the you knowhow it is right, like so many
things, to remember, and Iforgot it.
I forgot it and I couldn't, Icouldn't go back to get it, it
was too far.
Anyways, I feel so bad about it.
(17:19):
But our 15th anniversary iscoming up, so I was thinking I'm
going to have a cake, not a$600 cake.
I might make it myself andstick it on there.
I don't know.
Yeah, he doesn't want to see it.
So I don't know if it's likecause trauma?
No, I'm just joking.
I'm just joking, but anyway,back to you.
(17:39):
So I forgot to ask you.
So, your soon-to-be husband,how did you meet?
And then the proposal yeah,yeah, if you don't mind.
Casssandre Verhelst (17:48):
No, of course not um, we actually met
on exchange when we werestudents, um, at the um, at the
parish group, at the students umprayer group, on wednesday
evenings, there were um, thereare prayer, there are prayer,
there are prayer groups in thatparish, still for students and
um, and so I I noticed, quite,uh, I noticed him and I thought,
(18:13):
okay, I want to be friends withthis guy and and he had noticed
me at um, at a Mass on aprevious Sunday, and so it was
um.
So maybe just that a word ofencouragement to uh, to make
your uh, your daughters and yoursons or your yourself um, go to
go to Catholic um groups where,where students and when people
(18:36):
can can meet up because, um, youcan find the love of your life
and um, and so I had seen himand I think I, I'm, I think
that's really a grace that Ireceived and, and so I had seen
him and I think I'm, I thinkthat's really a grace that I
received, and and I and I thankthe Lord for that Because I very
, from very early on, aftermaybe two or three weeks of
knowing him, I thought I thoughtto myself, okay, I'm going to
marry this guy, and so I am, andso I knew that at the bottom of
(19:01):
my heart kind of like this,this baseline of decision, but
at the bottom of my heart kindof like this baseline of
decision, but at the same time Ithought we're so different,
there are so many things thatare a little bit off or that I'm
not at ease with or that Idon't understand, or I don't
understand why he's reactinglike that and why he's testing
me, and so I think we were bothkind of reserved and I think
(19:24):
that Paul Edrin was kind oftesting me in the beginning to
see, okay, who's this girl, andso that, you know, made us get
to know each other.
And we had to your standards,sheila, quite a long engagement
because we were engaged for ayear and a half, but I think it
was a year and a half.
(19:44):
That was really necessarybecause even if you have that
kind of decision or thatintuition at the beginning, it
can get confirmed with time.
And our engagement had its upsand downs, because when you get
to know someone, you get to knowthem entirely and you see all
(20:05):
of their um, all of their traits, but also all the things that
they're less proud of um andtheir weaknesses and so, and so
you know, when you discover them, you have to ask yourself, okay
, am I ready to love that and amI ready to to um, to commit
myself to this person?
And knowing that I had had thatthought and that really deep
(20:27):
intuition and peace when Ithought of this guy and told
myself, okay, I want to marryhim, it was pretty impressive
and actually pretty reassuring,because we are very different.
But it was the first time thatI thought, thought, okay, this
is the person I'm going to marrybecause I can feel, I can see
(20:47):
it and feel it.
So that was um pretty luckybeautiful.
Sheila Nonato (20:53):
So, um, so I can understand what you mean, like
the differences and, um, I guess, did you, how did you sort of
navigate through that, did you?
I mean, what was?
Did it come out in the marriageprep or conversations about
marriage after marriage prep?
So yeah, how did you guysnavigate that?
Casssandre Verhelst (21:14):
Yeah, I think what was the most
interesting during this marriageprep, because with Peredron,
what we did was we went to ourlocal parish.
What we did was we went to ourlocal parish.
But we also went on twodifferent retreats, and one that
was just incredible, in thesouth of France and if you know,
the listeners speak French.
I would so encourage them tolook into that.
(21:37):
It's by the friars of the Abbeyof La Grasse, l-a-g-r-a-s-s-e,
and they don't state themselvesas marriage pros, but de facto
they're very good.
They're very good, and so theyinvite couples to come and spend
(22:00):
a weekend at their abbey.
But they also go to the maincities in France and there are
300 to 400 couples, so that's800 people listening in
auditoriums to what thesefollowers have to say.
It's impressive and it's veryrich.
And then, maybe the thing thatmarked me the most was the fact
(22:21):
that they really pushed on thestatement that men and women are
built differently.
And you know, we know it, ofcourse we know it, but really
taking the time to understand it.
Having different couples comeand tell you you are different,
you will react differently.
Physically you are madedifferent, emotionally You're
(22:42):
made different, and the Lordwanted it that way.
He created men and women, um,and he didn't, uh, copy and
paste.
And so, understanding thatthose, um, that we're going to
complement each other, and thenunderstand also that we are
going to react differently todifferent to the same situation,
and and so, uh, reactingdifferently to the same
(23:05):
situation allows you to, um, tosee.
Sheila, do you want me to startover?
Sheila Nonato (23:12):
Sorry, it's just, my daughter was jumping around.
Hold on just a second.
Can you just go over there,please?
(Sheila is laughing) No, it'sokay, sorry, sorry sorry, no, no
, that's fine.
Casssandre Verhelst (23:24):
I thought when we edit audio it's easier
to start over and cut.
Sheila Nonato (23:27):
Yeah, it's okay.
So did you want to continueabout the retreat?
Casssandre Verhelst (23:31):
Yeah, so maybe the thing that interested
me the most and that marked methe most in that marriage prep
was the fact that differentcouples and different priests
and fathers gave us speeches andinterventions on interventions
isn't the right word gave usspeeches on how we are different
(23:52):
and we're going to reactdifferently to the same
situation, and so that'ssomething that was the hardest
for Paul-Hedri and me, because Ithink I'm very feminine and
he's very masculine.
I think I'm very feminine andhe's very masculine, and so, but
in the way of working in ourbrains and in our heads and in
our reactions, and so dealingwith ups and downs and a
(24:14):
constant line, how do you makethat fit?
And so how do you make that fit?
By knowing that you're going toreact differently.
And so knowing is from.
Knowledge is power.
Actually, we all know it and soI think that you advance and
you accept your differences ifyou know that they're there and
that you don't expect the otherto react the same way like you.
(24:36):
And so that's kind of, maybe onthe more intellectual way of
handling things.
And then, concretely as well, ishow do you deal with the fact
that you come from differentfamilies and that your mothers
react differently and educateyou differently?
You can have kind of the sameglobal education and values and
(24:56):
I think we're very lucky in thesense that we grew up in the
same places with the same kindof background but the emotional
education you get is completelydifferent because you don't have
the same person giving it toyou.
And so now, as we're preparingour, our wedding and not
preparing our marriage, butlogistically preparing the
(25:17):
wedding Well, you see that onefamily takes their decisions
very in advance and then, oncethe decision has been made, you
stick to it and you move on tothe next, whereas I come from a
family where we can talk 10times about the same subject and
until the moment wheresomething's paid and we're past
the deadline, we can come backon the decision 10, 12 times, it
(25:38):
doesn't really matter and we'regoing to call each other back
once then another time.
And just how do you mix the factthat you have one family that's
straightforward and one familythat's kind of in loops?
You're educated in that way,and so you start thinking that
way and then, and then again,the I think, the fact and what
told me and is um, their, their,their virtues in both of those
(26:04):
ways of working, and so we justneed to grab the good in each
and and put them together so wecan create a better and and so.
So that was kind of theeducation, and then the
emotional and then the differentthings of you know, one person
talks a lot and the other personlistens not.
Well, you have to make spacefor the other as well.
Sheila Nonato (26:25):
Okay, and so did you get.
Were you asked to read books?
Cassandre Verhelst (26:32):
Yeah, different books.
Casssandre Verhelst (26:34):
Yeah, we had quite a big list actually,
and I think the two that stoodout were the book by those
priests of La Grasse and anotherone by the Father Poitier
(spelling?
), who is a French-Parisianpriest, and it's called "Since
(26:55):
you have Decided to Love EachOther, in French, and that has
been very insightful and it wasimpressive because it was a
friend's mom that told us youguys should read this.
It's more for married couples,but it can be interesting as
well, and actually it's contentthat speaks to a variety of
different people, from peoplethat are discerning to those
(27:18):
that have decided to get married, to those that are in their
first years of marriage.
It's because you have decidedto love each other.
Here are the things that you'regoing to have to do, and that
kind of echoes with at themoment.
In France, to get married atchurch, you have to write a
declaration of intention.
I don't know if you have to dothat also in canada, actually.
Sheila Nonato (27:40):
No, we don't, no.
Casssandre Verhelst (27:42):
And so it's me, Cassandre, um, on the, on
the.
You know, right before mywedding, I want to commit myself
and I commit to um.
This, that and this is in thatand one of the, and so it's.
We have to talk about the fourpillars of marriage, which are
fidelity, loyalty, and loyaltyand fidelity are the same thing.
(28:05):
So fidelity, freedom.
Fruitfulness so how you willbear fruit through your children
or, if you don't have children,in another way.
And indissolubility, so thefact that you're getting married
for life and when you startwith the last one, you decide to
(28:31):
love each other every day, andso the book that the priest, the
Father Pote, wrote reallyresponds and echoes with that.
Sheila Nonato (28:41):
Wow, I'm really impressed with the level of
maturity that you and yourfiancé have, because most people
are probably worried about theparty, right, like what's going
to be the hors d'oeuvres, what'sthe main course, of course.
But you guys are like, how dowe navigate through our
weaknesses, through ourdifferences, how do we work
(29:04):
through that?
Because, like you said, men andwomen are different and they
have different ways ofcommunicating.
I think that's the main.
If there is one thing that Ican impart on you, having been
married for 15 years, iscommunication is so important.
Prayer, obviously number one,and then communication with each
(29:26):
other and with God.
But, yeah, that's reallybecause you don't want to find
out later on that you can'tcommunicate, because that would
be well, it's not impossible toovercome.
But if you're already ahead ofthe game and you have some
strategies to try to understandeach other, um and that's
(29:47):
amazing, is there?
Okay, do you have any tips?
Like what, what?
What are like the top tips youfound out?
Uh, that you can share with,with people who are preparing to
get married, who are engaged?
Casssandre Verhelst (29:58):
Yeah, Well, I think again at that marriage
prep in the south of France.
Something that really marked meand that I left the retreat
with was a couple that said thatthey had been married and they
had gone through some roughpatches.
And when they were in thoserough patches they saw a lot of
the other's weaknesses and thebad traits.
(30:21):
And they said something thatwas interesting was, rather than
being angry about your spouse'sweaknesses, ask yourself,
because behind every weakness isa strength.
What is the strength behindthat weakness that made me fall
in love with him and make theeffort, and make the conscious
effort to switch your mindsetand to go find the strength
(30:43):
behind that weakness.
And so the wife gave an exampleof saying he drove me nuts
because he didn't take any moredecisions.
I had to do all of the.
I had to take all of thedecisions.
Think of you know, move thefamily and the wagon forward.
And it was super hard for me.
And she said but then I realizedthat behind the fact of not
(31:06):
taking decisions is a personthat thinks a lot and that
analyzes the differentpossibilities and that sees the
outcomes and imagines theoutcomes.
And she didn't have thatstrength because she was more
spontaneous.
And so she said, the moment Irealized that, behind the fact
that he was not taking decisions, but he was thinking about the
(31:29):
different consequences and hewas sharing them with me, it
allowed me to then take thedecision that I thought was best
, in knowing what the outcomewould be, or at least having
thought of it.
And so it was impressivebecause, she said, we became
better when I realized that itwas complimentary and when I
(31:49):
made the effort to go find thegood behind what was bothering
me.
And so that was one of theexamples that she gave me.
And so that was one of theexamples that she gave, and it
was um it.
It really echoed with mebecause, going into that retreat
, I was asking myself thecommitment is huge.
How are you sure that in 40years, you're not going to be
exasperated by some of yourhusband's traits?
(32:11):
Well, you won't be exasperatedif, behind what exasperates you,
you think of the positive andthe strengths that are in him.
Sheila Nonato (32:25):
Yes, and that's definitely a positive way of
looking at something that mightirritate a person about someone.
And you know, when you you'redating it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter, but I guess whenyou're you know living together
24/ 7 it might but having thatsupernatural outlook that you
(32:47):
know, yeah, everyone has faultsand weaknesses and and yeah, why
?
Why did I fall in love with thisperson in the first place?
It's not because of you, know,like I was able to overcome
whatever he didn't uh, put theremote back in the right place
or something, I don't know,whatever people have find
annoying, but um.
But also to remember to comeback to the sort of the glue, uh
(33:11):
, of prayer, as you guys startedoff in prayer group or in the
youth group, which I'm sure youprayed, but was prayer also part
of your courtship?
Yeah, it was.
Yeah, can you tell us?
Casssandre Verhelst (33:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, when you don't getinvited on a date, but you do
get invited to mass, you'relikely to say yes, yeah, yeah,
yeah, and one of the things thatone of the priests told us is
that there's no conjugalhappiness without conjugal
holiness and there's no conjugalholiness without conjugal
(33:47):
prayer, and so that's one of thebig reflection access that we
had during our engagement washow or at least on my side how
are we going to pray together?
Because you have to mix a lot ofthings, and in those lots of
things you have to mix is yourprayer sensibility and the way
(34:09):
you pray.
So you have those that prayvery silently and very
internally and those that aremuch more charismatic, and in
French, and those that are muchmore charismatic and in French
we say, those that unscrew lightbulbs.
I don't know if you have thesame joke in English, but so how
do you mix that?
And for me, that was kind ofnot a stress point, but
(34:30):
something that I didn't know howwe were going to do.
And one of the priests told usdo not ever stop compromising,
and especially not in yourprayer life, because the moment
you stop compromising in yourprayer life, your conjugal
prayer life, is the moment whenyou're going to stop
compromising in everything.
It's the most important thing.
So never, ever say okay, we'reincompatible in the way we pray,
(34:55):
we're not going to praytogether, incompatible in the
way we pray, we're not going topray together.
And so the answer that I got,at least during this marriage
prep and this engagement time,was you don't have to pray half
an hour together every day.
It's completely okay to justsay the Our Father together, and
that can be your conjugalprayer, and you might have
(35:15):
different views, sheila, buthaving just something easy and a
basis and use as a basis and,with Paul Adrien, what we we so
we do have different ways ofpraying, but we can agree on our
father and we can also agree onadoration and mass, and so
that's something that reallythat keeps us going together and
(35:38):
that makes us meet in themiddle is we have an hour of
adoration per week together andthen we try and go to Mass on
top of Sundays, but go to Masstogether once a week.
And it's not asking forpersonal input.
I mean the Lord is alreadythere and so you just have to go
and meet Him.
(35:58):
He's waiting for you there,
Sheila Nonato (36:02):
Yes, and I really like how you phrase that.
Like you know, the path tomarital holiness is really
through.
Well, the path to maritalhappiness, sorry is through.
Marital holiness is throughprayer, and I think, dr scott,
hon was the one who saidmarriage is the exchange of.
(36:22):
It's a covenant.
Uh, the marriage covenant is anexchange of persons, and so
your path to heaven is throughyour future husband and his is
through you, and so the theholier you are, the more you're
going to both go together ineternity, to spend eternity with
God and with your children, godwilling, yeah.
Casssandre Verhelst (36:47):
And maybe to add to that, Sheila and I
don't know if we talked about itlast time, but Zita of Habsburg
(the Last Empress of Austria)explained how prayer worked in
her marriage to hergrandchildren by talking about a
triangle, and on top of thetriangle is the Lord, On the
left was Charles and on theright she put her name and she
(37:07):
said if we grow closer to theLord, we're going to grow closer
to each other.
And so if we want to get closerto each other, we need to grow
closer to the Lord because bynature, it's going to make us
get closer to each other.
We need to grow closer to theLord because, by nature, it's
going to make us become closerto each other.
So I thought that was superimpressive, because if you do
keep your eyes on them, keepyour eyes on the prize, if you
(37:30):
keep your eyes on the prize ofJesus' love, I think you're
going to get there, because it'sa grace and you have to have
confidence in the fact that theLord is taking that commitment
with the both of us.
Sheila Nonato (37:42):
Thank you very much to Cassandre Verhelst for
being a guest on our podcastsince last year, starting with
the Million Roses for MotherMary campaign, and then talking
about the Paris Olympics, andthe Three Million roses for
Mother Mary campaign which wasachieved by Hozana prayer
(38:03):
warriors, as I call them, and Ido wish her and her, I pray for
her and her husband to have abeautiful and holy marriage and
hope to see her again.
Thank you, and God bless you,Cassandre, and your husband, and
(38:26):
looking forward to chattingwith you again Congratulations
on your wedding, Miss Cassandre.
God bless, God bless.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armour podcast.
Co-Host (38:48):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic Mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
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