What happens when motherhood leaves you wondering who you are beyond diapers, carpools, or an empty nest? In this illuminating conversation with Jill Simons, Executive Director of Many Parts Ministries, we uncover how understanding your charisms—unique spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit—can transform your identity and purpose as a Catholic woman.
Jill explains the crucial distinction between gifts of the Holy Spirit (which all Christians receive) and charisms (which are unique to each person and meant for building the Church). This difference isn't just theological—it's deeply practical for mothers who often struggle with identity shifts when achievements, relationships, and routines change after having children.
"Our truest identity comes from what God says about us, not what we say about ourselves," Jill emphasizes, offering a powerful alternative to the identity confusion many women experience. Through Many Parts Ministries' assessment process, women can gain objective perspective on their spiritual gifts, discovering where God is calling them to serve within both their domestic church and the broader Catholic community.
Particularly fascinating is the concept of "seasonality" in our charisms. Just as motherhood evolves through different stages, the Holy Spirit often gives us new gifts for new seasons—whether we're new mothers, launching teens into adulthood, or entering our empty nest years. These charisms don't replace our vocation but rather empower us to live it more fully while continuing to grow in holiness.
For mothers of teenagers, Jill offers specific guidance on helping young people discover their own charisms, including a specially designed assessment for teens and strategies for supporting their discernment without overmanaging it. Her insights provide a roadmap for parents seeking to guide their children toward purposeful, faith-filled futures.
Ready to discover your unique spiritual gifts? Visit manypartsministries.com to take their assessment, access their communities, or explore their books and podcast. Your charisms aren't just for you—they're God's way of working through you to build His kingdom, one motherly moment at a time.
To find out more about Many Parts Ministries and receive their free guide to Charisms, please visit
https://manypartsministries.com
Jill Simons hosts the Charism for Catholics Podcast, available on all podcasting platforms
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/charisms-for-catholics/id1688464564
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sheila Nonato (00:00):
Are you a woman struggling to find your new
identity after becoming a motherfor the first time, or
adjusting to life with teens oradult children?
This is where knowing yourcharisms, which are expressions
of God's grace, can help you onthis path of faith-led
self-discovery.
Jill Simons is our guest thisweek to talk about how Many
(00:22):
Parts Ministries can help toidentify, value and nurture the
role that each member of theBody of Christ plays, and how we
can live out our God-givenfeminine genius as women and in
our own vocations.
Jill Simons (00:39):
So I think it's really important.
Something that we include inthe conversation around charisms
that isn't always included isthe aspect of where we are
receiving our identity, and thiscomes up hugely in the
conversation, especially aroundnew mothers or stay at home
mothers, where there isobviously this is important for
(01:01):
everybody, but I think theacuteness or maybe the awareness
of this just increases in thatsituation for a lot of women,
maybe not every woman, but a lotand we really have to
understand foundationally,before everything else, that our
truest identity comes from whatGod says about us.
(01:21):
Like what is true about us isactually what God says about us
and not what it is that we sayabout ourselves, because it's so
common to just organicallydevelop these identities from
relationships or achievements orstruggles, and this is so
commonly a pain point in earlymotherhood, because a lot of
(01:42):
things can feel like they'rebeing stripped away.
Maybe we don't have as muchtime for some relationships.
Maybe we aren't achieving quoteunquote on paper, what we
perceive to have achieved in thepast.
Maybe we're really strugglingwith being mothers and that
feels shameful, because weprobably prayed for this baby,
(02:02):
hoped for this baby, whateverthe situation might be.
I know my own situation.
I was when I became a new mom.
I was relatively newly marriedand I did not feel ready.
This was not the timing I hadhad in mind, and I had a lot of
shame around that, and all ofthose things can color our
concept of ourself.
That then makes it morechallenging to both be accurate
(02:26):
about ourselves in the waynecessary to discern our
charisms, but also to detachfrom the outcome of using our
charisms in a way that gives usgreater freedom, and so that's
why I think that in motherhood,it's so important to take
something like a charismassessment, have this awareness
(02:47):
of where it is that God isinviting you to build his church
, but also keep a really strongeye, and our assessment does
help you do this, because wehave an identity aspect of it,
with a lot of guidance about howto follow up, keep an eye on
where we're using our charismsfrom, because I think it can be
such a temptation to make itfeel like, oh, that is the thing
(03:11):
that I can then achieve with,or that is the thing that can
then give me a sociallyperceived value in a way that I
don't perceive my life havingvalue right now because of where
I'm at, and obviously the womenrun the entire spectrum of that
conversation.
There's probably some peoplelistening that are like I've
(03:32):
never struggled with that at alland that's fantastic, like
that's, that's a wonderful giftto not have those struggles.
And then all the way to thewomen who are like gosh, I don't
even I feel like I don't evenknow who I am and what I'm doing
anymore who are like gosh, Idon't even.
I feel like I don't even knowwho I am and what I'm doing
anymore.
And this looking at bothidentity and charisms can help
you wherever you fall on thatspectrum, to just look at what
(03:53):
needs to get dialed in toultimately just be the saint
that God created you to be.
Sheila Nonato (04:04):
Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast.
This is your host, SheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance catholic journalist.
Seeking the guidance of theholy spirit and the inspiration
of our lady, I strive to tellstories that inspire, illuminate
and enrich the lives ofcatholic women, to help them in
living out our vocation ofraising the next generation of
(04:26):
leaders and saints.
Co-hosts (04:28):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Sheila Nonato (04:35):
Welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast, jill
Simons, and it's an honor tomeet you online, and can we
please start off with a prayer?
Jill Simons (04:44):
I would love nothing more.
Let's begin in the name of thefather, son, Holy Spirit, Amen.
Come, Holy Spirit.
We just thank you for theopportunity to have this moment
of respite, just in yourpresence on in this time of
prayer and listening to thispodcast.
Just this moment of refreshmentin the midst of whatever the
(05:05):
subject, substance of our lifeis, as women and as mothers,
that this might be a place wherewe really can come to be
refreshed and renewed.
And we just ask that you mightbe with Sheila and myself as we
are speaking today, that wemight say what it is you desire
for us to say and that what itis that you have given us to say
will be impactful for thoselistening.
(05:27):
We pray that this will bearfruit in their lives and that
this time of investing inthemselves and their
relationship with you will yieldgreat fruit in their families,
in their relationships, in theirsphere of influence, whatever
that is.
We love you, lord, and wepraise you, Amen.
Sheila Nonato (05:48):
Amen.
Well, thank you very much, andI just wanted to introduce you
to listeners.
Jill Simons is a Catholicauthor and speaker.
She is the executive directorof Many Parts Ministries and
host of the Charisms forCatholics podcast.
It's actually a really awesomepodcast.
Please do listen in.
And she is a wife and a mom offour in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
(06:09):
And let's start off with you.
Know what is a charism of theHoly Spirit?
I know it's on your website,but if you can explain to us,
yes, I'd love to.
Jill Simons (06:19):
That's a great place to start.
A charism is a specific type ofgrace, so that's not something
we talk about a lot is thatthere's different varieties of
grace, because most of thegraces that we receive are
common to all of us.
We all receive the grace ofsalvation, the grace of
receiving the Holy Spirit, beingable to hear God's voice,
having that open Heaven, all thethings that happen in the image
(06:42):
of the baptism of Christ, aswell as receiving the gifts of
the Holy Spirit.
That gets talked aboutfrequently as we're going
through confirmation prep andthings like that.
Charisms are something separatefrom all of those things,
although they are the same typeof thing.
They are a grace, which meansit's a free gift.
You don't do something to earnit except simply accept the
(07:02):
grace, except simply accept theinvitation to be baptized as the
first advent of grace andcharisms are unique to each
individual person.
So the Holy Spirit looks at thechurch as a whole, thinks about
where you are created to fitwithin that, and then gives you
the gifts necessary for you tofulfill your specific and unique
(07:25):
role within the larger body ofChrist, which is why they vary
from person to person.
Sheila Nonato (07:32):
Okay, and how does Many Parts Ministries?
How does that fit into thecharisms of the Holy spirit?
Jill Simons (07:40):
So, that's our entire mission is to help the
church discern their charisms.
So this is at every level.
We help individuals, families,small groups, parishes, diocese,
all levels of the church tobetter understand the charisms
of its individual members sothat we can better come together
as the body of Christ to buildthe church in the most effective
(08:03):
way possible.
We find that, by and large, weare working harder, not smarter,
as a church.
We're not focusing on what itis that people have been given
and going from there andcooperating with the Holy Spirit
in that way.
We're looking at what we wouldlike to happen and then trying
to fit people into that mold andwe've kind of got it backwards.
(08:24):
But in order to get itstraightened out, working in the
way that God intended, we'vegot to have an actual
opportunity to step back, getsome objective perspective on
ourselves and be able to betterunderstand what is it that I was
created for and what have Ibeen given to be able to build
the church.
Sheila Nonato (08:43):
Beautiful! And on your website, you state your
mission, which is to helpeveryone who comes to church
know that they have a.
They have magnificent giftsfrom God to serve the church and
that we are all better off whenthey use them.
So how do we?
I know you have an assessmenton your website, so tell us,
kind of walk us through, how isthis assessment, how does it
(09:05):
work?
And then, how is this going tohelp us to find those gifts?
Jill Simons (09:09):
Well, really, the process of learning your
charisms has to start with someobjective perspective, that term
that I already used, talkingabout kind of how we begin,
because people are not great atbeing accurate about themselves.
We are not.
Even.
Even if you're seeking to beself-reflective and things like
that, your view of yourself,typically, if it's developing
(09:32):
organically, is not going to bethe most accurate view of
yourself.
Who's, of course, is going tobe completely accurate is God's
view of yourself.
But, short of God, just kind ofwriting on the stone tablet
telling exactly, telling youexactly what he wants you to do.
(09:53):
We can also use self-reportingin small instances to be able to
put together a holistic pictureof where are your most likely
charisms.
And that's what the assessmentdoes.
It's not magical, it's notspiritual, it's simply creating
a mirror to be able to show backto people.
Based on your answer to kind ofthese small questions, we're
able to aggregate that into awhole to show you this is what
(10:14):
we're hearing, this is whatwe're seeing, this is what seems
most likely for you, and that'swhat you come away from the
assessment with is not a likesign, sealed and delivered 100%.
These are your charisms and theywill never change.
It's, this is what seems mostlikely for you right now in this
season of your life, causethere is an element of that
seasonality that we experience alot as women in our charisms,
(10:39):
not that things are like givenand taken away, but that
typically things will new,things will be added for new
seasons, and I think weexperienced this when we, you
know, go to, like, graduate fromhigh school, when we go through
college, when we get married,when we decide our vocation,
discern our vocation, when wemaybe become mothers, whether
(11:01):
it's biological or spiritual,whatever that looks like there's
new gifts given for each season, and so this assessment just
kind of steps back, gives yousome objective perspective that
then you can take into a moreformal process of discernment.
Sheila Nonato (11:17):
Oh, I see, and can you also tell us a little
bit more about yourself and howdid you get into this apostolate
?
Jill Simons (11:25):
Yeah, so I used to start when I was 17 when I
discovered charisms, but now Ithink it makes a lot more sense
to start my story even younger.
I was one of those earlyprecocious readers.
That's either really fun toteach or really nightmarish to
teach.
I don't know.
It depends on your kindergartenphilosophy, but my saintly
grandmother used to give methese saint books to read just
(11:48):
small child saint books to readand I remember so clearly
reading one about St.
Rose of Lima and if you knowher story, she like cut her hair
off with a hatchet and burnedher face with boiling water and
mutilated herself in these waysso that she wouldn't be
attractive to someone to marry,because she wanted to be
celibate and commit her lifesolely to God.
(12:09):
And as I'm reading this, I'mjust like this sounds awful,
like I don't want any of thesethings, but I had been given
such a beautiful faith that Iknew I wanted to be a saint, but
I also knew I didn't want to belike her, and so I started
believing this lie, even at thatvery early age, that I was just
created incorrectly to actuallybe a saint.
(12:29):
Like there's this set ofcharacteristics or aptitudes or
predilections that make someonea saint, and I didn't have it.
But when I was 17 and trying tofigure out where to go to
college, I discovered thisconcept of charisms.
I think I literally Googled,like "what to do with my life
Catholic, or what to study incollege, catholic or something
(12:50):
like that, and was eventually,through some circuitous route,
brought to the teaching in thecatechism on charisms and some
of the other writings of JohnPaul II that dealt with charisms
, and it was beautiful but alsofrustrating, because I was clear
to me instantaneously that thisis what I needed to understand,
to understand what I should dobetter and what kind of saint
(13:14):
ultimately I should be.
But there was so little in thechurch documents about what I
should do to better understandmy charisms, and so it began
really this decade longexpedition of learning.
I was constantly readingeverything I could get my hands
on about charisms, but then atthe same time I was talking
(13:34):
about what I was learning withpeople in my circle and so many
people were then asking like,well, I want to know what my
charisms are, can you help me?
And so I got to have these justluxurious, super long times of
discernment with just friendsand peers where we would take
like 30 hours over the course offive months and talk these
things through, and it taught mewhat it looks like when the
(13:59):
Holy Spirit moves in someone.
I think that's the best way Icould summarize it.
Like I came to see thefingerprints of the specific
charisms in people as I got tolearn about them, with kind of
from the reading on one side andthe experiential knowledge on
the other side, and then theHoly Spirit just kept slowly
(14:20):
widening the circle.
Eventually people startedasking me to come talk to small
groups, to parish staffs, toentire parishes.
Then, about two years ago, heopened a really big door for us
to be able to launchinternationally, bring
everything online so that itwould be as accessible as
possible, which is a huge partof my desire for this.
(14:41):
I go back to myself.
At 17, as a teenager, I was inrural Iowa in a low resource
parish, and so now I seek tocreate things for where I was
then, for the teenagers, for thepeople in parishes who are
maybe not as engaged, or where Ishould say the community is not
(15:04):
as engaged, not as engaged, orwhere I should say the community
is not as engaged, where theresources maybe aren't there to
be able to understand, even ifit's just me.
How can I stand in the gap?
And so I've been doing thisfull time for the last two years
.
It's been phenomenal.
I have written five books aboutcharisms in all different ways,
and I'm working on more, andhave a wonderful staff that does
(15:27):
it alongside me now.
Sheila Nonato (15:29):
Oh, Wow, that's, that's beautiful.
And how did, how did you findyour charisms as a mother, and
how can other mothers, otherwomen, find theirs?
Jill Simons (15:40):
So I think it's really important.
It's something that we includein the conversation around
charisms.
That isn't always included isthe aspect of where we are
receiving our identity, and thiscomes up hugely in the
conversation especially aroundnew mothers or stay at home
mothers, where there isobviously this is important for
(16:02):
everybody, but I think theacuteness or maybe the awareness
of this it just increases inthat situation for a lot of
women maybe not every woman, buta lot and we really have to
understand foundationally,before everything else, that our
truest identity comes from whatGod says about us.
(16:22):
Like what is true about us isactually what God says about us
and not what it is that we sayabout ourselves, because it's so
common to just organicallydevelop these identities from
relationships or achievements orstruggles, and this is so
commonly a pain point in earlymotherhood, because a lot of
(16:43):
things can feel like they'rebeing stripped away.
Maybe we don't have as muchtime for some relationships,
maybe we aren't achieving quoteunquote on paper what we
perceive to have achieved in thepast.
Maybe we're really strugglingwith being mothers and that
feels shameful, because weprobably prayed for this baby,
(17:03):
hoped for this baby, whateverthe situation might be.
I know my own situation I waswhen I became a new mom.
I was relatively newly marriedand I did not feel ready.
This was not the timing I hadhad in mind, and I had a lot of
shame around that, and all ofthose things can color our
concept of ourself.
That then makes it morechallenging to both be accurate
(17:27):
about ourselves in the waynecessary to discern our
charisms, but also to detachfrom the outcome of using our
charisms in a way that gives usgreater freedom, and so that's
why I think that in motherhood,it's so important to take
something like a charismassessment, have this awareness
(17:48):
of where it is that God isinviting you to build his church
, but also keep a really strongeye, and our assessment does
help you do this, because wehave an identity aspect of it,
with a lot of guidance about howto follow up, keep an eye on
where we're using our charismsfrom, because I think it can be
such a temptation to make itfeel like, oh, that is the thing
(18:12):
that I can then achieve with,or that is the thing that can
then give me a sociallyperceived value in a way that I
don't perceive my life havingvalue right now because of where
I'm at, and obviously the womenrun the entire spectrum of that
conversation.
There's probably some peoplelistening that have like I've
(18:33):
never struggled with that at alland that's fantastic, like
that's, that's a wonderful giftto not have those struggles.
And then all the way to thewomen who are like gosh, I don't
even.
I feel like I don't even knowwho I am and what I'm doing
anymore.
And this looking at bothidentity and charisms can help
you wherever you fall on thatspectrum, to just look at what
(18:55):
needs to get dialed in toultimately just be the saint
that God created you to be.
Sheila Nonato (19:01):
Yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely.
And I just wanted to sort ofread some of the gifts of the
Holy Spirit, because they soundlike really leadership qualities
, which is what mothers andfathers are doing, uh, in, you
know, helping to form theirchildren, uh, in the faith and
to become leaders when they growup.
(19:22):
So I just you, understanding,right judgment or counsel,
courage or fortitude, knowledge,reverence or piety, wonder and
awe or fear of the Lord, andthese all, yeah, like, as I was
saying, fit together very nicelyand very concretely in sort of
(19:44):
helping us to raise the nextgeneration of leaders and saints
.
How do we fit the charisms insort of that formation, in
helping to be mothers in our owndomestic church?
How can, yeah, how can you helpus please?
Jill Simons (20:01):
Yeah.
So I want to be clear.
That list that you just readare the gifts of the Holy Spirit
.
The gifts of the Holy Spiritare different than charisms.
They are not interchangeable,it's not the same thing.
And the gifts of the HolySpirit are given to all
Christians.
So, Sheila, me, those listening, we all have those same gifts
and we all have all of them, allof those gifts that Sheila read
(20:24):
out just now, we all have.
That's part of our Baptism,given the fullness at our
Confirmation, and those are allthings that allow us to have the
personal faith that we ought.
So they're very important,definitely worth like
engendering and kind of buildingup in your kids, being aware of
those things, knowing that youand they have all of them and
(20:47):
and just the amount that we canhave not that we have to
quantify it or something canvary.
So, for instance, knowledge isone of those ones that you read.
I had to do a lot of learningto make the faith my own and
really be able to be at theplace where I can say, yes, I
believe Catholicism is real, anda lot of that was head
(21:08):
knowledge that I needed toacquire, and so that gift of the
Holy Spirit, of knowledge, isreally important to my faith,
whereas my wonderful saintlygrandmother was just like I
don't know nobody knows how theHoly Spirit or how the Trinity
functions and nobody has to andshe needed very little knowledge
(21:30):
, head knowledge of theology, inorder to sustain her very
beautiful, robust faith, and sothat's where we can have
variances within those gifts ofthe Holy Spirit.
Now, I'm so glad that youbrought them up, because gifts
and the charisms get confused alot.
Gifts of the Holy Spirit, like Isaid, are for us personally,
like that's for you to be theCatholic you should be and have
(21:52):
the faith that you should have.
Charisms are always for otherpeople, so the charisms you have
been given are for you to giveaway.
These are things that otherpeople need to receive from you,
and that's why everybody hasall different ones.
So, for instance, these giftsof the Holy spirit that Sheila
read, that is like the fact thatwe are all part of one puzzle.
(22:14):
It's all the same puzzle, it'sgot the same, maybe like brown
craft backing on it, or whatever.
The charisms are the aspectthat we all have different, like
colors and the shape, cutoutsare different and things like
that and they can only becombined in one way in the whole
, they they must come togetherto make the whole, and so that's
(22:36):
what we're looking for in ourcharisms.
So then, looking at how do weuse these within our family life
?
Every charism can be used atevery level of the church and,
as we know, the domestic church,our homes, is like the smallest
cellular unit of the body ofChrist, and so, even if you have
charisms where you're like gosh, this really seems like the
(22:57):
only place that it would live ismaybe at the parish level or
the diocesan level or even ahigher level of the church
structure.
There is still a way that Godis calling you to potentially to
use that charism within yourhome.
Now there's also situationswhere that's not true.
I have leadership is one of mycharisms, but that does not mean
(23:18):
I'm called to be the leader ofmy family.
I'm not the leader of my family, my husband is, and the husband
is always going to be theleader of the family, because
that's kind of the order of thedomestic church.
Some men have leadership as acharism that helps them to do
that, but I've receivedleadership as a charism to be
able to lead my organization,which is what I do from my place
(23:40):
, of being under the authorityof the Holy Spirit and also
ultimately though it's notreally socially acceptable to
say under the authority of myhusband, and that is what, when
we get these things kind ofrightly ordered, leads to
greater harmony in the familyand harmony in the church, and
it's not about like, oh, we needto make these certain rules
(24:02):
based on what we perceive asbest it's about.
What does it look like tocooperate with the Holy Spirit
authentically, with what you'vebeen given?
And the two most importantpieces of information you've
been given by the Holy Spiritare what is your vocation and
what are your charisms?
Because those two thingstogether gives you the clearest
(24:24):
sense of what the substance ofyour life should look like.
Sheila Nonato (24:29):
And I'm glad you made that distinction because I,
as you heard, I confused them,charism and gifts of the Holy
Spirit.
I'm sorry about that.
Jill Simons (24:44):
It is hard because they get, I mean, so many people
do that.
So common mistake.
Sheila Nonato (24:49):
I'm very curious also about your new program,
Charism for Teens teens becauseI do have preteens and I heard
this is a challenging period oftime to sort of, and I'd like to
be able to help navigatenavigate them in this sort of
challenging time and what.
So can you tell us a little bitmore about the program for
teens?
Jill Simons (25:09):
Yes.
So we have an assessment thatis specific for teenagers.
We do not have teenagers takeour adult assessment, because
there's a lot of prefrontalcortex development that is in
the works and there's a largergap in the self-reporting
abilities for teenagers versusadults.
(25:30):
So we have formulated anassessment specifically for them
and the main difference is thatit casts a lot of things in in
terms of where there is a pulland a desire, a longing from the
Holy spirit to do something, um, when they may not have had a
lot of forums to do that thingyet, which gives us a lot more
(25:51):
clarity for young people,because a lot of times there
will be that like fire to dosomething, that desire to do
something that hasn't had spaceto be explored yet, and so
that's the biggest differencebetween the two.
It's looking at the samecharisms.
It's still including thatidentity piece of things.
So that's the tool that teensare able to use independently
(26:13):
Now.
You don't have to wait for it tocome through their youth
ministry or through a parish orsomething like that.
If you go to our website, tothe assessment page, on one side
it'll say I'm 19 or younger andI'd like to take the charism
assessment.
On the other page it says I'm20 or older, so that's basically
the adult versus the teenassessment.
And then we?
I also have a book that cameout earlier this year called a
(26:34):
passion and purpose charisms forteens, and that book is super
helpful for teens and parentsalike.
Again, that's something thatyou can just buy on Amazon.
You do not have to wait for itto come through your youth
ministry program or through yourchildren's school, and that
really helps you understand howto teach teens to hear God's
(26:55):
voice in prayer.
As it relates to discernment,that's a great skillset.
There's a lot of reallypractical teaching tools for
that in that book, as well ashow to understand all of these
different charisms in theircontext as a young person and
start thinking about what doesthat mean?
I might be interested inexploring as I continue to
(27:18):
mature when it comes to what amI going to study in college,
what am I going to spend summersand internship time doing, and
how can I more thoughtfullyreally cooperate with what it is
that the Holy Spirit is doing,because a lot of people will
kind of organically stumble ontosomething pretty close to what
it is that they're supposed tobe doing, but there's not the
(27:41):
same level of clarity andintentionality there, without
being able to put language towhy A lot of people, especially
adults, will have started on apath as teenagers that turns out
is a great path for them.
They're finding a lot ofsuccess, but a lot of the lack
of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
We're gonna throw another thirdthing into the mix.
(28:01):
Fruits are a third thing fromthe gifts or the charisms.
Those are what show us wherethe Holy Spirit is present.
This is exactly like you know,an apple tree is an apple tree
because there is apples on thetree and this is the.
The fruits of the Holy spiritare the things that show up when
the Holy spirit is the sourceof what it is that you're doing.
(28:22):
And so a lot of people will notexperience the fruits at the
same level when they don't havean understanding of why what
they are doing is the correctthing for them to do.
They're sort of this nigglingopen door of like, what if it's
something else?
What if I'm incorrect?
Is this really all that Ishould be doing?
And we get to actually closethat door when we get clarity on
(28:46):
our charisms and the earlier itcomes in life, especially if it
comes as a teenager.
14 is really the youngest thatwe recommend in life, especially
if it comes as a teenager.
14 is really the youngest thatwe recommend If it comes as a
teenager.
What a foundation to then beable to like no.
I'm going to make the choicesin my life based on what it is
it seems like the Holy spirithas given me to do, and that's
that's the great gift that Ireceived in learning about them
(29:10):
so young, in being so tenaciousin like no.
I'm going to figure this out,even though there's not like
clear resources to do it.
I was clear going into collegethat craftsmanship, leadership
and writing were my primarycharisms and that point in my
life and I went hard after allof them and it was such a
(29:31):
beautiful progression and it wasa clear path for me to not only
serve other people but also togrow in the ways that the Holy
Spirit wanted me to grow to beable to do what I do now.
Nowadays there's a different setof three charisms that is
really the charisms of thisseason, but I still have writing
and craftsmanship, the two thatkind of got bumped down the
(29:53):
list a little bit, and they justcome along in service to what
is primary now.
So, for instance, now myprimary charisms are like
knowledge, leadership andprophecy.
And as an expression ofknowledge, I've written more
books in this phase of my lifethan I did when I thought about
writing being primary, because Iwasn't writing for writing sake
(30:14):
.
I'm now writing to transmit theknowledge that I have to people
.
So it's a really beautiful toolalso to just look at where
you're at, look at where you'vebeen and be able to really
intentionally cooperate with theHoly Spirit.
Sheila Nonato (30:31):
And so just to sort of bring up that
distinction again.
So charisms, gifts and fruits,they're all different.
Yes, all different, yes.
And so the teens, they do wantthe test.
When they do the test inadulthood, do the charisms
change?
Or even, as in adulthood, dothey change when you're in a
different stage of life?
Jill Simons (30:52):
Yeah, so that's really that seasonality piece
where, when I discerned as ateen, I had clarity about those
few that was the case for in mysituation it was about it was
about 11 years that those werethe primary charisms for me.
It was real clear and it didn'treally change.
And then this would have beenabout four years ago.
(31:15):
There was a really clearseasonal shift in my life.
I reached the point where, likeit was very likely because of
medical issues, that our familywas complete.
I wasn't going to be like doingthe pregnant and new baby thing
again, and so that was a shift.
And then I also received theopportunity to do what it is
(31:35):
that I do now, and that wasanother shift.
And there was a really clearepisode of like a new
acquisition of grace.
And this is where this is whywe encourage people every like
two to three years, we encouragepeople to just reassess with
the assessment, not because youneed to do some like big, long
(31:56):
discernment process all overagain every two to three years,
but because it's reallyimportant and helpful to catch
if the Holy spirit is doingsomething new, because typically
new gifts are received for newmissions.
So they, the Holy spirit, hassomething new for you to do and
he gives you a new gift toempower you to do it.
And if you miss it, if it justkind of goes on, you know, under
(32:20):
the radar, then you can alsomiss out, just not be paying
attention to the new call ofmission that the Holy spirit has
for your life.
And this isn't a reallyimportant thing for mothers,
especially if there's sort of ayear to year, like you know.
Am I going to continue to stayhome?
Should I go back?
(32:40):
What does that look like?
What should I do?
How do I allot my time aschildren are getting older?
What else should I beprioritizing beyond the
development of our children'slives?
For my life and some people,that's going to be totally
different than other people.
But it's helpful to check backin on a semi-regular basis that
(33:03):
every two to three years, to beable to see is there a new
invitation?
We find that there's this levelof seasonality is higher for
women than for men, because mena lot of times are kind of on a
road for longer, not to say theycan't be given new things.
We still recommend men reassess, but there's not frequently
(33:27):
that level of like.
Now we're over here and nowit's totally different, and now
we're doing something else thatwe as women can experience in
our adult lives because of thecause of motherhood.
So that's why I think it's kindof extra important for women in
that situation to just bechecking in, because it's easy
to get your head down in whatyou're doing and not really pay
(33:48):
attention to if there's a newinvitation.
Sheila Nonato (33:52):
And so, in terms of that new invitation, I'm just
wondering if you do the testand you find a charism that
maybe you think, oh, I neverthought of that.
And you're wondering is theLord calling me to something
that I'm not sure if I can do?
And then, in that case, I'mthinking about Moses and God
(34:13):
said okay, you're going to talkto the Pharaoh.
And he said well, lord, I can'tdo it.
I think he might've had somesort of speech impediment.
But the Lord said(paraphrasing) "well, you got
your brother Aaron and he'sgoing to help you.
He still didn't let him off thehook.
But I'm just wondering, ifthere is a charism that you
think I don't think I can dothat, but the Lord is asking me
to do this, how do, how do wediscern that this is the right
(34:35):
charism that we, that we receive?
Jill Simons (34:36):
Yes.
So typically it's not that thewhole charism is like something
you're not sure you can do.
It's typically the specific waythat the Holy Spirit is calling
you to use it.
You might be like that's toobig, that's too much, that's
like more than I feel, like Ican handle, and this does happen
extremely regularly.
(34:57):
It is 100% normal part ofspiritual development as we see
it, because you're, as youprogress in your identity, that
piece of things we spoke aboutat the beginning, where you have
really adopted God's image ofyou as your image of yourself.
That's when there's a reallylike, a clear like taking off of
the training wheels.
(35:18):
I'm going to say where the Holyspirit's like okay, I've got an
invitation for you and itliterally is so large whether
it's not necessarily large insize, but it turned large in
risk Like this is so much biggerthan you have thought of or
imagined for yourself.
I'm going to invite you to dothis because you know yourself
(35:42):
and you know that you're onlygoing to get be able to get it
60% of the way to the finishline and you have got to put
your money where your mouth isand expect the Holy spirit to
get it the rest of the 40% ofthe way, but you're not going to
have any tangible physicalevidence of that until you do it
.
And that is where we're invitedto again just put our money
(36:02):
where our mouth is and like,okay, I'm saying that I am
trusting you.
Now I have to actually trustyou, because this thing
literally makes no sense unlessI trust you.
And again, the scope of thistotally different for different
people.
You have a large comfort zone.
It's probably going to be likea super massive thing.
(36:22):
You have a small comfort zone.
It might be something thatsomeone else is like that that's
your, that's your big risk,like that's not really big risk,
but but your hardest thing iswhatever the hardest thing you
have ever done is, and thatthere's really no benefit or
help in that comparison.
Because the Holy spirit meetsus where we're at and says I'm
going to stretch youspecifically, uniquely, this
(36:44):
much further than you've everbeen stretched before.
And then guess what, once we'redone, we're going to do it
again.
And this is what we see in thesaints, where what they're able
to accomplish in their lifetimeso vastly exceeds what it is
that you would expect.
And I think a great illustrativeexample that a lot of people
are familiar with is St Thereseof Lisieux.
(37:05):
Clearly a writing charism.
At work there she did enjoywriting, but it was her mother,
superior.
That was like I want you towrite this book and that was the
thing for her.
That was like so much furtherthan she was comfortable risking
, and she had the benefit of, ofthe obedience of her vocation
to be able to kind of push heracross the finish line which is
(37:25):
what we see frequently inreligious orders um to where she
was then faithful, did it?
The Holy spirit showed up andnow, whatever, a hundred and
plus years later, we're stillhaving current conversions from
this book that she wrote at thatpoint.
So this is what we expect.
Is that?
It's not.
(37:45):
It does not get easier as youprogress.
It asks you to let go more andmore.
The level of detachmentincreases just as exactly as we
expect.
The level of detachmentincreases as our holiness
increases.
So the fruit of our charisms,what the benefit I should say of
(38:06):
our charisms, is for otherpeople, but we experience this
necessary growth in holiness toprogress in them.
That is like the best sideeffect ever that the Holy Spirit
designed into the system sothat we would do both
simultaneously.
Sheila Nonato (38:24):
And so how much preparation do we need to do?
You mentioned prayer Before wetake this test, because maybe
some of the teens might bewondering I don't, I don't know
what, you know what, if myanswers are going to be correct,
or how?
Yeah, please guide us.
And even for some of the momsum, how do we, how do we prepare
for this test?
Jill Simons (38:45):
Yeah.
So, other than like Holy spirit, help me to be accurate.
That's the, that's what I wouldpray.
Holy spirit, help me to beaccurate.
And's the.
That's what I would pray.
Holy spirit helped me to beaccurate and then just dive in.
Because if you get into a realstate of like overthinking and
over-preparing and things likethat, your results will not be
accurate.
And that's the most importantthing is that it's just what is
your like off the cuff, um, gutresponse to this question.
(39:10):
That's going to be way moreaccurate than what you get to by
sitting with it for even 90seconds, like we would like to
this to go quickly and so itshould take you about 25 minutes
.
If it's getting past 30 minutes, you you are overthinking, like
it needs to and you're nothaving technical issues that
could obviously elongate it.
But if it's from you thinking,overthinking, that's where we're
(39:34):
like, okay, this might not bethe most accurate, because this
should be more organic gutinstinct responses to these
questions.
And I think the brilliant thingabout our assessment that's
really helpful is that at theend of it you receive a 25-page
PDF report.
It's very exhaustive.
(39:54):
That goes through every aspectof this.
So identity, all of thecharisms, where where you fall
in likelihood for all of thecharisms all kinds of details
about the charisms that are yourmost likely charisms and gives
you a really good foundation ofinformation to move forward in
your discernment journey.
(40:15):
But ultimately it's just goingto be a PDF on your hard drive
unless you actually take it intodiscernment.
So a lot of people do want tolike be really active and do a
bunch of things before theassessment, when in reality you
can come as you are, show up tothe assessment, ask the Holy
Spirit to help you, be accurate,and then afterwards is when
(40:36):
it's time to put in the work, toreally take the results, go
through it, pray through thoseand look at how can I get
clarity about whether this is mycharism or not by just testing
these things out.
This is literally like ascientific method situation,
like when I do this, does thisother thing that I would expect
happen?
And letting the Holy spiritgive you feedback on your
(40:59):
actions in the areas that areyour likely charisms so you can
grow in clarity about whetherthat is your charism or not.
And and the length of time thattakes is often proportionate
with both spiritual maturity andchronological age.
So if you are older and havebeen walking with Christ for a
very long time, you likely canvery accurately discern your
(41:20):
charisms.
In like one day.
You can take your results, praywith them, have a lot of
clarity because you've got anentire lifetime of evidence for
or against these differentthings.
If you are young and not asclose to the Lord, you're going
to need a lot more time becauseyou have very little personal
history to look back on what youhave done and also you're just
(41:43):
still kind of learning how theHoly Spirit does give you
feedback.
So, even on the longest end, werecommend people spend no more
than 60 days in discerning theircharisms before saying, okay,
yes, I think these are mycharisms, this is what I'm going
to focus on, this is what I amgoing to be intentional about
doing to build the church.
Sheila Nonato (42:05):
Okay, so I'm actually going to take the test
after this interview.
I'm just curious.
So once we get the results, dowe, how do we zero in on like do
we do all of them?
Do we pick one and then do weget a spiritual director?
How do we sort of or does yourministry have sort of some tools
for us to develop thesecharisms or point us towards
(42:28):
where should we go?
Some?
tools for us to develop thesecharisms or point us towards
where should we go?
Jill Simons (42:37):
Yes, absolutely.
So.
Typically, we recommend youlook at your top four to five as
your most likely charisms andto spend time with those.
If you have a bunch of ties inyour higher numbers that make
like there's, there's you know abank of maybe seven that are
all extremely similar, then Itypically encourage people to go
with what it is that is mostinteresting or most attractive
to them, because a lot of times,the Holy Spirit will draw us
(43:00):
towards what is the appropriatecall of the season, and so
there's always small ways to usethese charisms that are really
joy filled for us, even if we'realso being asked to take some
kind of big risk.
So, for instance, if someonehas a charism of music, it's
always going to be wonderful andjoy filled by and large,
(43:21):
pending other kind of largecircumstance changes, it's
always going to be joy filledfor them to like sing and play
with their friends and to beable to lead worship.
To like sing and play withtheir friends, um, and to be
able to lead worship, music andthings like that.
Maybe the big risk is, like youknow, opening for a huge
conference or being in front ofthe largest group crowd they've
ever been in front of, orsomething like that, um.
But if you scale it back, you'regoing to find a lot of peace
(43:44):
and joy and generosity, allthose good fruits of the Holy
spirit Spirit doing your charismat the level that you've been
doing it historically, so kindof in your comfort zone.
And so after you take your topfour or five, we want to first
of all pray with those as theHoly Spirit to give you feedback
on times historically that youmight have used these things
(44:07):
that you can use for evidence.
And then, ultimately, we wantto fill a bucket of evidence is
how I like to think about it.
Like you've got a bucket foreach charism.
We're looking to fill a bucketof with evidence that it is or
is not your charism and at theend of your period of
discernment, you're able to sayI did or did not receive
sufficient evidence for this tobe one of my charisms.
(44:29):
So there is guidance in how todo that in the report that you
get.
There is also a book that Iwrote called "pen your gifts.
It's behind me right there Ifyou're watching the video, and
it is a step-by-step exhaustiveguide.
This is for your personality.
If you are the kind of personthat's like, just no, no
creativity, I can't be creative,just tell me exactly what I am
(44:50):
supposed to do step-by-step.
I'm not that way, but some ofmy best friends are, so I wrote
this book for them, thinkingabout, like okay, if I have to
like, step by step by step, whatwould I tell people to do?
That's an open, your gifts.
If you are not a writer, not areader, that kind of format
(45:11):
doesn't resonate with you.
We also have other resourcesavailable.
We have our charism communitieson our website.
They're completely free.
It's like a Facebook group, butit's just on our website and
very soon maybe already at thetime that this eventually airs
we also are building a mobileapp that will have those
communities just in the mobileapp, so super accessible,
exactly like it would be onFacebook or something like that.
Or you can ask questions.
(45:31):
If you have just briefquestions about like how would I
test this or what do you thinkabout that?
And if you'd like more intense,personalized help, we do have
charismatic coaches that we havetrained, that have been
exhaustively trained by myselfon walking with people through
the discernment process, and wehave a directory of those
coaches on our website where youcan see all of them reach out
(45:54):
to them individually.
Many Parts (Ministries) doesn'thost that training currently.
That's something we hope to addin the future is actually
having like programs through us.
Right now, we just let you workdirectly with people that we
have trained.
Sheila Nonato (46:14):
That's awesome.
Jill Simons (46:15):
And so you also mentioned that.
Can you mention again the nameof the book for teens?
Yes, it's called "Passion andPurpose Charisms for Teens, and
if you search Jill Simon'sCharisms on Amazon, all six of
my books will be the first onesto come up there.
Sheila Nonato (46:29):
And for the teen test do you have to be 13?
Could you be like almost 13, 12, or is that specifically for 13
and up?
Jill Simons (46:38):
So 14 and up is kind of our main recommendation
yes, that's the mainrecommendation.
The like unwritten part is thatif you have a mature, typically
female they can usually take itas young as 12.
Never yet met a male studentthat I felt was ready before 14
(46:59):
because of the self-reportinggap.
Not because they don't havecharisms, not because they're
not capable of using them, it'sjust the ability to be accurate
about themselves is very muchundeveloped at that stage, but
some precocious girls will beable to do it a little bit
earlier.
You are the best judge of yourown child, though, so that's
(47:19):
what I would say is that ifyou're like, no, I know my kid's
ready.
You know better than me aboutwhere they are at personally,
there can absolutely be outliers.
We don't do anything to likegatekeep it in any way.
That's just our recommendation.
That was really the design.
Intent is for 14 and up, and ifyou were to have a younger
child, do it and there would beto like a low identity score,
(47:44):
maybe they wouldn't have likeany green charisms or something
like that on the chart.
Maybe they wouldn't have likeany green charisms or something
like that on the chart.
That would just tell me thatthey aren't quite there yet and
to circle back in a year or twoand let them reassess with just
that higher level ofself-awareness.
Sheila Nonato (47:59):
Okay, so if a teen does the test, so as a mom
I'd like to help them along.
Is it helpful to have your bookthen to sort of guide guide in
that process, or yeah?
Jill Simons (48:12):
So if yes, I would say after they have results, the
most important thing is forthem to have sources of
information.
So if you are interested inbecoming that source of
information, we absolutely haveeverything available for you to
be able to do that.
We have, like I said, there's,six different books, all very
(48:33):
exhaustive about being able tounderstand the discernment
process, what charisms are, whatwe would expect to be coming up
during all of those processes,so you can learn those things
yourself.
You can also be involved in thecommunities, like I talked
about, and you can also learnwith our podcast.
You can also be involved in thecommunities, like I talked
about, and you can also learnwith our podcast if you're more
(48:53):
of an auditory learner than areader.
We have a lot of episodes.
It's called Charisms forCatholics.
It's free, of course, like allpodcasts are.
That allows you to learn aboutthese things and that can be
something that you can just dotogether as a family.
You can put on the episodesabout the individual charism
that your teen ranked highly forwhen you're driving to school
(49:14):
or on a family road trip andjust have conversations about do
they understand that?
Do you understand that?
Where do you think you've seenthat in their lives and you can
just really be a resource ofinformation and clarity for them
throughout that process andthat's the most important role I
think to take is to be theperson that maybe, like, brings
(49:35):
the attention back to that,continues the conversation
around it, but recognizing alsothat this is something of theirs
to steward, especially asteenagers, as they grow, and not
necessarily something that youhave to feel amazing about how
it's being steward, because it'sit's not on your paper at the
end of the day.
Absolutely help, absolutely bea resource.
(49:57):
But the best thing you can dofor your teens is for you to
expose them to this and then bediligent about, visually for
them, learning about anddiscerning your own charisms so
that they actually have thistemplate of.
This is what we're going for.
This is what it's going to belike eventually.
This is when I have to flyacross the country to go talk.
(50:20):
I talk to my kids and I'm likeit's not that I don't want to be
with you guys, it's because itis my role to be obedient and
this is something your dad and Ihave discerned, is a part of my
charisms that I'm reallyresponsible for, and so then
they're able to look at thatwith a kind of pride of like
mom's doing what she's supposedto do and that's really cool,
(50:41):
versus this is something that'staking away from us and we're
constantly talking about what'sthat going to be for you guys
and this is something that wesee maybe coming up and they're
much younger, they're not at theteen assessment point, but that
can be translated then for thehigh schoolers, where you're
able to actually kind ofverbally process your own
journey and why it is you dowhat you do, based on your own
(51:03):
charisms with them.
Sheila Nonato (51:06):
And if they find a charism that they're not quite
ready yet for it, I guess it'sokay to just come back to it,
maybe next year or a couple ofyears from now.
Jill Simons (51:16):
Yeah, typically, if there's something that I,
there's a variety of things thatcould be going on there A lot
of times it's going to be acourage gap.
Sometimes it could be that thisis like has not really been
given in fullness, where you'renot really quite capable of
using it yet.
Maybe there's some identityhealing that needs to happen.
(51:36):
A lot of different things canbe going on, but I would say, as
long as there is a few thingsthat you can focus on using from
a good place of not trying toearn your worth, not trying to
prove to people that you're agood person, where you can
actually just like I want tofreely give this to build the
church, then that is enough atthat.
(51:57):
At that stage, if they can comeaway with one, two, three would
be great, but if it's only oneor two, that's okay, but I would
not just let it go for forever.
I think that's a great placewhere you as a parent can like
leverage technology, put it onyour Google calendar, you know,
18 months out, to like remindLucy about such and such charism
(52:19):
and just kind of circle back.
Because, like I said a lot oftimes it's a courage gap.
A lot of times it's like theyare not at a place where they
can trust God quite that much,and that's okay.
We we're constantly growing inthat, and I think that's the
only place that becomes aproblem is when we're like, okay
, not right now, and then itjust gets permanently set aside.
(52:41):
I think if there's, if youcreate some kind of backstop for
yourself, structures foryourself, to make sure that it
comes back around I do this forso many things in my spiritual
life that I'll put on mycalendar at future dates to kind
of remind me to come back thatcan be a great way to just sort
of meet them where they're at,but also not completely let it
(53:02):
go, okay.
Sheila Nonato (53:04):
And just to sort of, if there are any listeners
out there who are thinking, youknow when you think of charism
they might think charismatic,like that's not necessarily like
the same thing.
Jill Simons (53:16):
Right, correct, well so this is so similar to
the gifts conversation where I'mjust like Catholic church
there's so many words we couldhave thought of different words
for different things, becauseall of these words being used in
different ways does certainlymuddy the water.
So charismatic means relatingto the free gift given to the
(53:37):
lady, like the free gift ofgrace given to the lady.
That's what it means.
And so charismatic, like thecharismatic renewal, charismatic
masses.
All of these things arerelating to the free gifts of
grace given by the Holy Spiritto the lady.
That is true.
But the charismatic movement,the way that we would think
about it, and that kind of like,you know, almost Catholic
(54:00):
Pentecostalism, where we havethis like emphasis on very
specific iterations of the HolySpirit healing, prophecy,
praying in tongues, things likethat those are things that are
valid opportunities for thelaity to be exploring the free
gift of grace that they've giventhem.
But that's only about 7% of thefree gifts of grace that the
(54:26):
Holy Spirit gives to the church,and charism looks at the whole
hundred percent like spectrumthat it can be.
So it is, though it might beuncomfortable for a person with
administration and service andgiving to call themselves
charismatic when they're doingthose things because, from their
(54:46):
perspective, their life isspreadsheets and stacking chairs
and writing checks.
That is still a charismaticexpression of the faith, and so
I think that I, my personalgifts and spirituality aligns
very strongly with thecharismatic renewal movement,
and so I found a great homethere.
(55:07):
That said, I work withthousands of people for whom
that is not the case, and thatis completely fine and does not
have anything to do one way orthe other with your ability to
have and use your charisms,which are also confusingly
charismatic.
Sheila Nonato (55:28):
Okay, that's good to know.
In case somebody is wonderingdo I have to be charismatic?
And no, you don't just have tobe Catholic or Christian.
actually, Is it only
Jill Simons (55:38):
Baptized.
Yes, anyone validly baptized,so so it would be.
Is it a Baptism that the Holy,that the, I'm sorry, that the
Roman Catholic church wouldrecommend or recognize as being
a baptism, that, yes, you havegot charism.
So this is all in common withour Protestant brothers and
sisters and they're way betterat talking about this honestly
than we are because I think thatthe treasure chest of the
(55:58):
Catholic church is so just soenormous that we kind of like
left lost this one in the backleft corner for a couple hundred
years and we're really justrediscovering the huge gift that
this is.
That, I think, is very specificfor this time, because there's
so many options now and there'sso much noise that the Holy
(56:20):
spirit, I think, in its wisdom,really has has elevated this
conversation about personalspiritual gifts to give us a
tool to combat that, to be ableto better understand, like, okay
, yes, I can be a hundredthousand different things when I
grew up, whereas growing up inrural France, there was like
maybe six jobs you could do, youknow, and there was so much
(56:41):
smaller area of places you couldgo in your life and and then,
given like the technology andall that, in any given moment.
There's probably a hundredthousand different things you
could be doing, even afteryou've chosen your vocation and
chosen your job.
The, the charisms, helps us,like put the horse blinders on,
(57:02):
like, okay, sure, yes, there'sso many things, can't do all of
them.
I'm going to actually sit withand create some silence,
actually understand what it isthat is specific to me, and I'm
going to block out everythingelse.
And that's something that Ithink happened way more
(57:22):
organically at earlier ages ofthe church that we're really
needing to actually beintentional about and make space
for now.
Sheila Nonato (57:32):
And was there anything that I did not touch
upon that you'd like to sharewith the listeners?
Jill Simons (57:38):
I don't think so.
This was awesome, Like wideranging, covered, kind of all
the high points.
I think the biggest thing isthat the devil loves to tell
people who listen to sort ofintroductory episodes like this
be like, "oh, but that's not you.
Like, you don't actually haveanything to offer.
This isn't actually, this isfor people who have podcasts and
write books and all of thesethings.
(57:58):
"And it's just such a lie that
the whole goal is to get youfeeling like you are expendable
to the church.
Like, you know you're doing yourSunday obligation and raising
your family and doing your best,but like who would really
notice if you weren't there?
And that is such a such a lieand it is so pervasive in the
(58:21):
church and it is so malignantwithin the church for people to
believe that because there is100% someone in your home,
someone in your parish, someonein your Bible study going
without.
If you do not use your charisms, like this is.
This is taking food out ofsomebody's mouth in some way.
(58:42):
This is removing a grace fromsomebody else's life.
If you don't do these things,they are full of joy to do, they
are full of fruit to use and we, Sheila and I, need you to do
these things because we are inthe Body of Christ with you, and
when it says in Scripture, whenone part suffers, we all suffer
(59:03):
with it and we're living in abody content with just such
malnourishment and strugglebecause we're not recognizing
how to be healthy individualcells in the body of Christ that
create a healthy whole.
Sheila Nonato (59:21):
Yes, absolutely, and I sort of liken it to, you
know, on the airplane, you putyour life vest on first and then
you can help your children.
And before doing this podcastand writing, returning to
writing, I was actually a stayat home mom for 11 years, or
maybe more now 12 years but Ijust, yeah, I had that.
You know the devil came andsaid you know what you're doing.
(59:43):
You know I feel like small incomparison to other women who
were working and but then, asI've been sort of growing in my
faith and learning about, youknow, other stay at home moms
who are listening to this, youknow it's, it's a big job,
motherhood is a big job that youknow.
Maybe the rewards or the fruitsof your, of your labor are going
(01:00:08):
to be seen later on in life, ormaybe in heaven, we don't know.
But we pour ourselves into ourfamilies and sometimes we do
forget about ourselves.
But knowing, you know, thegifts, the care sorry, the
charisms that the Holy Spirithas, you know, given us or has
empowered us with, that canreally help us in our own
(01:00:29):
motherhood, in our own families,to sort of inspire our own
children.
That you know there's no suchthing as I'm just a mom, like
there's no such thing, becauseit's a big, big job that you
know.
Unfortunately a lot of youngwomen are not choosing at this
time, but it is very, it's hard,but it's fruitful and very
(01:00:49):
rewarding.
And also having your identityrooted in Christ, anchored in
Christ, and knowing thatidentity.
I think this test will help youin that, to sort of secure you
know who you are in Christ andnot to belittle that, because
there's no such thing as a smallvocation.
So I really thank you forjoining us, and can you tell us
(01:01:10):
please where can we find you?
Jill Simons (01:01:13):
Yes, if you go to manypartsministries.
com, everything I've talkedabout in this episode will be
accessible from there.
The two other places that youcan go that we talked about is
straight to Amazon to buy thephysical copies of the book.
We have digital copies of thebook on our websites and then
also, if you want to just listento our podcast in a podcast app
, wherever you're listening tothis.
(01:01:33):
Now we're on YouTube, we're onall the podcast app just at Many
Parts Ministries, and the showis called Charisms for Catholics
.
Sheila Nonato (01:01:41):
Well, thank you so much.
That is an awesome show, so Ido recommend everyone to listen
to that.
Thank you so much again foryour time and for bearing with
us with our technicaldifficulties.
I sincerely appreciate it, andGod bless you and your ministry
and your family.
Jill Simons (01:01:54):
You too, Sheila, God bless.
Sheila Nonato (01:01:55):
Take care, thank you, bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armour podcast.
Co-hosts (01:02:14):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
Are you a woman struggling to find your new
identity after becoming a motherfor the first time, or
adjusting to life with teens oradult children?
This is where knowing yourcharisms, which are expressions
of God's grace, can help you onthis path of faith-led
self-discovery.
Jill Simons is our guest thisweek to talk about how Many
(00:22):
Parts Ministries can help toidentify, value and nurture the
role that each member of theBody of Christ plays, and how we
can live out our God-givenfeminine genius as women and in
our own vocations.
Jill Simons (00:39):
So I think it's really important.
Something that we include inthe conversation around charisms
that isn't always included isthe aspect of where we are
receiving our identity, and thiscomes up hugely in the
conversation, especially aroundnew mothers or stay at home
mothers, where there isobviously this is important for
(01:01):
everybody, but I think theacuteness or maybe the awareness
of this just increases in thatsituation for a lot of women,
maybe not every woman, but a lotand we really have to
understand foundationally,before everything else, that our
truest identity comes from whatGod says about us.
(01:21):
Like what is true about us isactually what God says about us
and not what it is that we sayabout ourselves, because it's so
common to just organicallydevelop these identities from
relationships or achievements orstruggles, and this is so
commonly a pain point in earlymotherhood, because a lot of
(01:42):
things can feel like they'rebeing stripped away.
Maybe we don't have as muchtime for some relationships.
Maybe we aren't achieving quoteunquote on paper, what we
perceive to have achieved in thepast.
Maybe we're really strugglingwith being mothers and that
feels shameful, because weprobably prayed for this baby,
(02:02):
hoped for this baby, whateverthe situation might be.
I know my own situation.
I was when I became a new mom.
I was relatively newly marriedand I did not feel ready.
This was not the timing I hadhad in mind, and I had a lot of
shame around that, and all ofthose things can color our
concept of ourself.
That then makes it morechallenging to both be accurate
(02:26):
about ourselves in the waynecessary to discern our
charisms, but also to detachfrom the outcome of using our
charisms in a way that gives usgreater freedom, and so that's
why I think that in motherhood,it's so important to take
something like a charismassessment, have this awareness
(02:47):
of where it is that God isinviting you to build his church
, but also keep a really strongeye, and our assessment does
help you do this, because wehave an identity aspect of it,
with a lot of guidance about howto follow up, keep an eye on
where we're using our charismsfrom, because I think it can be
such a temptation to make itfeel like, oh, that is the thing
(03:11):
that I can then achieve with,or that is the thing that can
then give me a sociallyperceived value in a way that I
don't perceive my life havingvalue right now because of where
I'm at, and obviously the womenrun the entire spectrum of that
conversation.
There's probably some peoplelistening that are like I've
(03:32):
never struggled with that at alland that's fantastic, like
that's, that's a wonderful giftto not have those struggles.
And then all the way to thewomen who are like gosh, I don't
even I feel like I don't evenknow who I am and what I'm doing
anymore who are like gosh, Idon't even.
I feel like I don't even knowwho I am and what I'm doing
anymore.
And this looking at bothidentity and charisms can help
you wherever you fall on thatspectrum, to just look at what
(03:53):
needs to get dialed in toultimately just be the saint
that God created you to be.
Sheila Nonato (04:04):
Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast.
This is your host, SheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance catholic journalist.
Seeking the guidance of theholy spirit and the inspiration
of our lady, I strive to tellstories that inspire, illuminate
and enrich the lives ofcatholic women, to help them in
living out our vocation ofraising the next generation of
(04:26):
leaders and saints.
Co-hosts (04:28):
Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour
podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
lens and mother's heart.
Sheila Nonato (04:35):
Welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast, jill
Simons, and it's an honor tomeet you online, and can we
please start off with a prayer?
Jill Simons (04:44):
I would love nothing more.
Let's begin in the name of thefather, son, Holy Spirit, Amen.
Come, Holy Spirit.
We just thank you for theopportunity to have this moment
of respite, just in yourpresence on in this time of
prayer and listening to thispodcast.
Just this moment of refreshmentin the midst of whatever the
(05:05):
subject, substance of our lifeis, as women and as mothers,
that this might be a place wherewe really can come to be
refreshed and renewed.
And we just ask that you mightbe with Sheila and myself as we
are speaking today, that wemight say what it is you desire
for us to say and that what itis that you have given us to say
will be impactful for thoselistening.
(05:27):
We pray that this will bearfruit in their lives and that
this time of investing inthemselves and their
relationship with you will yieldgreat fruit in their families,
in their relationships, in theirsphere of influence, whatever
that is.
We love you, lord, and wepraise you, Amen.
Sheila Nonato (05:48):
Amen.
Well, thank you very much, andI just wanted to introduce you
to listeners.
Jill Simons is a Catholicauthor and speaker.
She is the executive directorof Many Parts Ministries and
host of the Charisms forCatholics podcast.
It's actually a really awesomepodcast.
Please do listen in.
And she is a wife and a mom offour in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
(06:09):
And let's start off with you.
Know what is a charism of theHoly Spirit?
I know it's on your website,but if you can explain to us,
yes, I'd love to.
Jill Simons (06:19):
That's a great place to start.
A charism is a specific type ofgrace, so that's not something
we talk about a lot is thatthere's different varieties of
grace, because most of thegraces that we receive are
common to all of us.
We all receive the grace ofsalvation, the grace of
receiving the Holy Spirit, beingable to hear God's voice,
having that open Heaven, all thethings that happen in the image
(06:42):
of the baptism of Christ, aswell as receiving the gifts of
the Holy Spirit.
That gets talked aboutfrequently as we're going
through confirmation prep andthings like that.
Charisms are something separatefrom all of those things,
although they are the same typeof thing.
They are a grace, which meansit's a free gift.
You don't do something to earnit except simply accept the
(07:02):
grace, except simply accept theinvitation to be baptized as the
first advent of grace andcharisms are unique to each
individual person.
So the Holy Spirit looks at thechurch as a whole, thinks about
where you are created to fitwithin that, and then gives you
the gifts necessary for you tofulfill your specific and unique
(07:25):
role within the larger body ofChrist, which is why they vary
from person to person.
Sheila Nonato (07:32):
Okay, and how does Many Parts Ministries?
How does that fit into thecharisms of the Holy spirit?
Jill Simons (07:40):
So, that's our entire mission is to help the
church discern their charisms.
So this is at every level.
We help individuals, families,small groups, parishes, diocese,
all levels of the church tobetter understand the charisms
of its individual members sothat we can better come together
as the body of Christ to buildthe church in the most effective
(08:03):
way possible.
We find that, by and large, weare working harder, not smarter,
as a church.
We're not focusing on what itis that people have been given
and going from there andcooperating with the Holy Spirit
in that way.
We're looking at what we wouldlike to happen and then trying
to fit people into that mold andwe've kind of got it backwards.
(08:24):
But in order to get itstraightened out, working in the
way that God intended, we'vegot to have an actual
opportunity to step back, getsome objective perspective on
ourselves and be able to betterunderstand what is it that I was
created for and what have Ibeen given to be able to build
the church.
Sheila Nonato (08:43):
Beautiful! And on your website, you state your
mission, which is to helpeveryone who comes to church
know that they have a.
They have magnificent giftsfrom God to serve the church and
that we are all better off whenthey use them.
So how do we?
I know you have an assessmenton your website, so tell us,
kind of walk us through, how isthis assessment, how does it
(09:05):
work?
And then, how is this going tohelp us to find those gifts?
Jill Simons (09:09):
Well, really, the process of learning your
charisms has to start with someobjective perspective, that term
that I already used, talkingabout kind of how we begin,
because people are not great atbeing accurate about themselves.
We are not.
Even.
Even if you're seeking to beself-reflective and things like
that, your view of yourself,typically, if it's developing
(09:32):
organically, is not going to bethe most accurate view of
yourself.
Who's, of course, is going tobe completely accurate is God's
view of yourself.
But, short of God, just kind ofwriting on the stone tablet
telling exactly, telling youexactly what he wants you to do.
(09:53):
We can also use self-reportingin small instances to be able to
put together a holistic pictureof where are your most likely
charisms.
And that's what the assessmentdoes.
It's not magical, it's notspiritual, it's simply creating
a mirror to be able to show backto people.
Based on your answer to kind ofthese small questions, we're
able to aggregate that into awhole to show you this is what
(10:14):
we're hearing, this is whatwe're seeing, this is what seems
most likely for you, and that'swhat you come away from the
assessment with is not a likesign, sealed and delivered 100%.
These are your charisms and theywill never change.
It's, this is what seems mostlikely for you right now in this
season of your life, causethere is an element of that
seasonality that we experience alot as women in our charisms,
(10:39):
not that things are like givenand taken away, but that
typically things will new,things will be added for new
seasons, and I think weexperienced this when we, you
know, go to, like, graduate fromhigh school, when we go through
college, when we get married,when we decide our vocation,
discern our vocation, when wemaybe become mothers, whether
(11:01):
it's biological or spiritual,whatever that looks like there's
new gifts given for each season, and so this assessment just
kind of steps back, gives yousome objective perspective that
then you can take into a moreformal process of discernment.
Sheila Nonato (11:17):
Oh, I see, and can you also tell us a little
bit more about yourself and howdid you get into this apostolate
?
Jill Simons (11:25):
Yeah, so I used to start when I was 17 when I
discovered charisms, but now Ithink it makes a lot more sense
to start my story even younger.
I was one of those earlyprecocious readers.
That's either really fun toteach or really nightmarish to
teach.
I don't know.
It depends on your kindergartenphilosophy, but my saintly
grandmother used to give methese saint books to read just
(11:48):
small child saint books to readand I remember so clearly
reading one about St.
Rose of Lima and if you knowher story, she like cut her hair
off with a hatchet and burnedher face with boiling water and
mutilated herself in these waysso that she wouldn't be
attractive to someone to marry,because she wanted to be
celibate and commit her lifesolely to God.
(12:09):
And as I'm reading this, I'mjust like this sounds awful,
like I don't want any of thesethings, but I had been given
such a beautiful faith that Iknew I wanted to be a saint, but
I also knew I didn't want to belike her, and so I started
believing this lie, even at thatvery early age, that I was just
created incorrectly to actuallybe a saint.
(12:29):
Like there's this set ofcharacteristics or aptitudes or
predilections that make someonea saint, and I didn't have it.
But when I was 17 and trying tofigure out where to go to
college, I discovered thisconcept of charisms.
I think I literally Googled,like "what to do with my life
Catholic, or what to study incollege, catholic or something
(12:50):
like that, and was eventually,through some circuitous route,
brought to the teaching in thecatechism on charisms and some
of the other writings of JohnPaul II that dealt with charisms
, and it was beautiful but alsofrustrating, because I was clear
to me instantaneously that thisis what I needed to understand,
to understand what I should dobetter and what kind of saint
(13:14):
ultimately I should be.
But there was so little in thechurch documents about what I
should do to better understandmy charisms, and so it began
really this decade longexpedition of learning.
I was constantly readingeverything I could get my hands
on about charisms, but then atthe same time I was talking
(13:34):
about what I was learning withpeople in my circle and so many
people were then asking like,well, I want to know what my
charisms are, can you help me?
And so I got to have these justluxurious, super long times of
discernment with just friendsand peers where we would take
like 30 hours over the course offive months and talk these
things through, and it taught mewhat it looks like when the
(13:59):
Holy Spirit moves in someone.
I think that's the best way Icould summarize it.
Like I came to see thefingerprints of the specific
charisms in people as I got tolearn about them, with kind of
from the reading on one side andthe experiential knowledge on
the other side, and then theHoly Spirit just kept slowly
(14:20):
widening the circle.
Eventually people startedasking me to come talk to small
groups, to parish staffs, toentire parishes.
Then, about two years ago, heopened a really big door for us
to be able to launchinternationally, bring
everything online so that itwould be as accessible as
possible, which is a huge partof my desire for this.
(14:41):
I go back to myself.
At 17, as a teenager, I was inrural Iowa in a low resource
parish, and so now I seek tocreate things for where I was
then, for the teenagers, for thepeople in parishes who are
maybe not as engaged, or where Ishould say the community is not
(15:04):
as engaged, not as engaged, orwhere I should say the community
is not as engaged, where theresources maybe aren't there to
be able to understand, even ifit's just me.
How can I stand in the gap?
And so I've been doing thisfull time for the last two years
.
It's been phenomenal.
I have written five books aboutcharisms in all different ways,
and I'm working on more, andhave a wonderful staff that does
(15:27):
it alongside me now.
Sheila Nonato (15:29):
Oh, Wow, that's, that's beautiful.
And how did, how did you findyour charisms as a mother, and
how can other mothers, otherwomen, find theirs?
Jill Simons (15:40):
So I think it's really important.
It's something that we includein the conversation around
charisms.
That isn't always included isthe aspect of where we are
receiving our identity, and thiscomes up hugely in the
conversation especially aroundnew mothers or stay at home
mothers, where there isobviously this is important for
(16:02):
everybody, but I think theacuteness or maybe the awareness
of this it just increases inthat situation for a lot of
women maybe not every woman, buta lot and we really have to
understand foundationally,before everything else, that our
truest identity comes from whatGod says about us.
(16:22):
Like what is true about us isactually what God says about us
and not what it is that we sayabout ourselves, because it's so
common to just organicallydevelop these identities from
relationships or achievements orstruggles, and this is so
commonly a pain point in earlymotherhood, because a lot of
(16:43):
things can feel like they'rebeing stripped away.
Maybe we don't have as muchtime for some relationships,
maybe we aren't achieving quoteunquote on paper what we
perceive to have achieved in thepast.
Maybe we're really strugglingwith being mothers and that
feels shameful, because weprobably prayed for this baby,
(17:03):
hoped for this baby, whateverthe situation might be.
I know my own situation I waswhen I became a new mom.
I was relatively newly marriedand I did not feel ready.
This was not the timing I hadhad in mind, and I had a lot of
shame around that, and all ofthose things can color our
concept of ourself.
That then makes it morechallenging to both be accurate
(17:27):
about ourselves in the waynecessary to discern our
charisms, but also to detachfrom the outcome of using our
charisms in a way that gives usgreater freedom, and so that's
why I think that in motherhood,it's so important to take
something like a charismassessment, have this awareness
(17:48):
of where it is that God isinviting you to build his church
, but also keep a really strongeye, and our assessment does
help you do this, because wehave an identity aspect of it,
with a lot of guidance about howto follow up, keep an eye on
where we're using our charismsfrom, because I think it can be
such a temptation to make itfeel like, oh, that is the thing
(18:12):
that I can then achieve with,or that is the thing that can
then give me a sociallyperceived value in a way that I
don't perceive my life havingvalue right now because of where
I'm at, and obviously the womenrun the entire spectrum of that
conversation.
There's probably some peoplelistening that have like I've
(18:33):
never struggled with that at alland that's fantastic, like
that's, that's a wonderful giftto not have those struggles.
And then all the way to thewomen who are like gosh, I don't
even.
I feel like I don't even knowwho I am and what I'm doing
anymore.
And this looking at bothidentity and charisms can help
you wherever you fall on thatspectrum, to just look at what
(18:55):
needs to get dialed in toultimately just be the saint
that God created you to be.
Sheila Nonato (19:01):
Yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely.
And I just wanted to sort ofread some of the gifts of the
Holy Spirit, because they soundlike really leadership qualities
, which is what mothers andfathers are doing, uh, in, you
know, helping to form theirchildren, uh, in the faith and
to become leaders when they growup.
(19:22):
So I just you, understanding,right judgment or counsel,
courage or fortitude, knowledge,reverence or piety, wonder and
awe or fear of the Lord, andthese all, yeah, like, as I was
saying, fit together very nicelyand very concretely in sort of
(19:44):
helping us to raise the nextgeneration of leaders and saints
.
How do we fit the charisms insort of that formation, in
helping to be mothers in our owndomestic church?
How can, yeah, how can you helpus please?
Jill Simons (20:01):
Yeah.
So I want to be clear.
That list that you just readare the gifts of the Holy Spirit
.
The gifts of the Holy Spiritare different than charisms.
They are not interchangeable,it's not the same thing.
And the gifts of the HolySpirit are given to all
Christians.
So, Sheila, me, those listening, we all have those same gifts
and we all have all of them, allof those gifts that Sheila read
(20:24):
out just now, we all have.
That's part of our Baptism,given the fullness at our
Confirmation, and those are allthings that allow us to have the
personal faith that we ought.
So they're very important,definitely worth like
engendering and kind of buildingup in your kids, being aware of
those things, knowing that youand they have all of them and
(20:47):
and just the amount that we canhave not that we have to
quantify it or something canvary.
So, for instance, knowledge isone of those ones that you read.
I had to do a lot of learningto make the faith my own and
really be able to be at theplace where I can say, yes, I
believe Catholicism is real, anda lot of that was head
(21:08):
knowledge that I needed toacquire, and so that gift of the
Holy Spirit, of knowledge, isreally important to my faith,
whereas my wonderful saintlygrandmother was just like I
don't know nobody knows how theHoly Spirit or how the Trinity
functions and nobody has to andshe needed very little knowledge
(21:30):
, head knowledge of theology, inorder to sustain her very
beautiful, robust faith, and sothat's where we can have
variances within those gifts ofthe Holy Spirit.
Now, I'm so glad that youbrought them up, because gifts
and the charisms get confused alot.
Gifts of the Holy Spirit, like Isaid, are for us personally,
like that's for you to be theCatholic you should be and have
(21:52):
the faith that you should have.
Charisms are always for otherpeople, so the charisms you have
been given are for you to giveaway.
These are things that otherpeople need to receive from you,
and that's why everybody hasall different ones.
So, for instance, these giftsof the Holy spirit that Sheila
read, that is like the fact thatwe are all part of one puzzle.
(22:14):
It's all the same puzzle, it'sgot the same, maybe like brown
craft backing on it, or whatever.
The charisms are the aspectthat we all have different, like
colors and the shape, cutoutsare different and things like
that and they can only becombined in one way in the whole
, they they must come togetherto make the whole, and so that's
(22:36):
what we're looking for in ourcharisms.
So then, looking at how do weuse these within our family life
?
Every charism can be used atevery level of the church and,
as we know, the domestic church,our homes, is like the smallest
cellular unit of the body ofChrist, and so, even if you have
charisms where you're like gosh, this really seems like the
(22:57):
only place that it would live ismaybe at the parish level or
the diocesan level or even ahigher level of the church
structure.
There is still a way that Godis calling you to potentially to
use that charism within yourhome.
Now there's also situationswhere that's not true.
I have leadership is one of mycharisms, but that does not mean
(23:18):
I'm called to be the leader ofmy family.
I'm not the leader of my family, my husband is, and the husband
is always going to be theleader of the family, because
that's kind of the order of thedomestic church.
Some men have leadership as acharism that helps them to do
that, but I've receivedleadership as a charism to be
able to lead my organization,which is what I do from my place
(23:40):
, of being under the authorityof the Holy Spirit and also
ultimately though it's notreally socially acceptable to
say under the authority of myhusband, and that is what, when
we get these things kind ofrightly ordered, leads to
greater harmony in the familyand harmony in the church, and
it's not about like, oh, we needto make these certain rules
(24:02):
based on what we perceive asbest it's about.
What does it look like tocooperate with the Holy Spirit
authentically, with what you'vebeen given?
And the two most importantpieces of information you've
been given by the Holy Spiritare what is your vocation and
what are your charisms?
Because those two thingstogether gives you the clearest
(24:24):
sense of what the substance ofyour life should look like.
Sheila Nonato (24:29):
And I'm glad you made that distinction because I,
as you heard, I confused them,charism and gifts of the Holy
Spirit.
I'm sorry about that.
Jill Simons (24:44):
It is hard because they get, I mean, so many people
do that.
So common mistake.
Sheila Nonato (24:49):
I'm very curious also about your new program,
Charism for Teens teens becauseI do have preteens and I heard
this is a challenging period oftime to sort of, and I'd like to
be able to help navigatenavigate them in this sort of
challenging time and what.
So can you tell us a little bitmore about the program for
teens?
Jill Simons (25:09):
Yes.
So we have an assessment thatis specific for teenagers.
We do not have teenagers takeour adult assessment, because
there's a lot of prefrontalcortex development that is in
the works and there's a largergap in the self-reporting
abilities for teenagers versusadults.
(25:30):
So we have formulated anassessment specifically for them
and the main difference is thatit casts a lot of things in in
terms of where there is a pulland a desire, a longing from the
Holy spirit to do something, um, when they may not have had a
lot of forums to do that thingyet, which gives us a lot more
(25:51):
clarity for young people,because a lot of times there
will be that like fire to dosomething, that desire to do
something that hasn't had spaceto be explored yet, and so
that's the biggest differencebetween the two.
It's looking at the samecharisms.
It's still including thatidentity piece of things.
So that's the tool that teensare able to use independently
(26:13):
Now.
You don't have to wait for it tocome through their youth
ministry or through a parish orsomething like that.
If you go to our website, tothe assessment page, on one side
it'll say I'm 19 or younger andI'd like to take the charism
assessment.
On the other page it says I'm20 or older, so that's basically
the adult versus the teenassessment.
And then we?
I also have a book that cameout earlier this year called a
(26:34):
passion and purpose charisms forteens, and that book is super
helpful for teens and parentsalike.
Again, that's something thatyou can just buy on Amazon.
You do not have to wait for itto come through your youth
ministry program or through yourchildren's school, and that
really helps you understand howto teach teens to hear God's
(26:55):
voice in prayer.
As it relates to discernment,that's a great skillset.
There's a lot of reallypractical teaching tools for
that in that book, as well ashow to understand all of these
different charisms in theircontext as a young person and
start thinking about what doesthat mean?
I might be interested inexploring as I continue to
(27:18):
mature when it comes to what amI going to study in college,
what am I going to spend summersand internship time doing, and
how can I more thoughtfullyreally cooperate with what it is
that the Holy Spirit is doing,because a lot of people will
kind of organically stumble ontosomething pretty close to what
it is that they're supposed tobe doing, but there's not the
(27:41):
same level of clarity andintentionality there, without
being able to put language towhy A lot of people, especially
adults, will have started on apath as teenagers that turns out
is a great path for them.
They're finding a lot ofsuccess, but a lot of the lack
of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
We're gonna throw another thirdthing into the mix.
(28:01):
Fruits are a third thing fromthe gifts or the charisms.
Those are what show us wherethe Holy Spirit is present.
This is exactly like you know,an apple tree is an apple tree
because there is apples on thetree and this is the.
The fruits of the Holy spiritare the things that show up when
the Holy spirit is the sourceof what it is that you're doing.
(28:22):
And so a lot of people will notexperience the fruits at the
same level when they don't havean understanding of why what
they are doing is the correctthing for them to do.
They're sort of this nigglingopen door of like, what if it's
something else?
What if I'm incorrect?
Is this really all that Ishould be doing?
And we get to actually closethat door when we get clarity on
(28:46):
our charisms and the earlier itcomes in life, especially if it
comes as a teenager.
14 is really the youngest thatwe recommend in life, especially
if it comes as a teenager.
14 is really the youngest thatwe recommend If it comes as a
teenager.
What a foundation to then beable to like no.
I'm going to make the choicesin my life based on what it is
it seems like the Holy spirithas given me to do, and that's
that's the great gift that Ireceived in learning about them
(29:10):
so young, in being so tenaciousin like no.
I'm going to figure this out,even though there's not like
clear resources to do it.
I was clear going into collegethat craftsmanship, leadership
and writing were my primarycharisms and that point in my
life and I went hard after allof them and it was such a
(29:31):
beautiful progression and it wasa clear path for me to not only
serve other people but also togrow in the ways that the Holy
Spirit wanted me to grow to beable to do what I do now.
Nowadays there's a different setof three charisms that is
really the charisms of thisseason, but I still have writing
and craftsmanship, the two thatkind of got bumped down the
(29:53):
list a little bit, and they justcome along in service to what
is primary now.
So, for instance, now myprimary charisms are like
knowledge, leadership andprophecy.
And as an expression ofknowledge, I've written more
books in this phase of my lifethan I did when I thought about
writing being primary, because Iwasn't writing for writing sake
(30:14):
.
I'm now writing to transmit theknowledge that I have to people
.
So it's a really beautiful toolalso to just look at where
you're at, look at where you'vebeen and be able to really
intentionally cooperate with theHoly Spirit.
Sheila Nonato (30:31):
And so just to sort of bring up that
distinction again.
So charisms, gifts and fruits,they're all different.
Yes, all different, yes.
And so the teens, they do wantthe test.
When they do the test inadulthood, do the charisms
change?
Or even, as in adulthood, dothey change when you're in a
different stage of life?
Jill Simons (30:52):
Yeah, so that's really that seasonality piece
where, when I discerned as ateen, I had clarity about those
few that was the case for in mysituation it was about it was
about 11 years that those werethe primary charisms for me.
It was real clear and it didn'treally change.
And then this would have beenabout four years ago.
(31:15):
There was a really clearseasonal shift in my life.
I reached the point where, likeit was very likely because of
medical issues, that our familywas complete.
I wasn't going to be like doingthe pregnant and new baby thing
again, and so that was a shift.
And then I also received theopportunity to do what it is
(31:35):
that I do now, and that wasanother shift.
And there was a really clearepisode of like a new
acquisition of grace.
And this is where this is whywe encourage people every like
two to three years, we encouragepeople to just reassess with
the assessment, not because youneed to do some like big, long
(31:56):
discernment process all overagain every two to three years,
but because it's reallyimportant and helpful to catch
if the Holy spirit is doingsomething new, because typically
new gifts are received for newmissions.
So they, the Holy spirit, hassomething new for you to do and
he gives you a new gift toempower you to do it.
And if you miss it, if it justkind of goes on, you know, under
(32:20):
the radar, then you can alsomiss out, just not be paying
attention to the new call ofmission that the Holy spirit has
for your life.
And this isn't a reallyimportant thing for mothers,
especially if there's sort of ayear to year, like you know.
Am I going to continue to stayhome?
Should I go back?
(32:40):
What does that look like?
What should I do?
How do I allot my time aschildren are getting older?
What else should I beprioritizing beyond the
development of our children'slives?
For my life and some people,that's going to be totally
different than other people.
But it's helpful to check backin on a semi-regular basis that
(33:03):
every two to three years, to beable to see is there a new
invitation?
We find that there's this levelof seasonality is higher for
women than for men, because mena lot of times are kind of on a
road for longer, not to say theycan't be given new things.
We still recommend men reassess, but there's not frequently
(33:27):
that level of like.
Now we're over here and nowit's totally different, and now
we're doing something else thatwe as women can experience in
our adult lives because of thecause of motherhood.
So that's why I think it's kindof extra important for women in
that situation to just bechecking in, because it's easy
to get your head down in whatyou're doing and not really pay
(33:48):
attention to if there's a newinvitation.
Sheila Nonato (33:52):
And so, in terms of that new invitation, I'm just
wondering if you do the testand you find a charism that
maybe you think, oh, I neverthought of that.
And you're wondering is theLord calling me to something
that I'm not sure if I can do?
And then, in that case, I'mthinking about Moses and God
(34:13):
said okay, you're going to talkto the Pharaoh.
And he said well, lord, I can'tdo it.
I think he might've had somesort of speech impediment.
But the Lord said(paraphrasing) "well, you got
your brother Aaron and he'sgoing to help you.
He still didn't let him off thehook.
But I'm just wondering, ifthere is a charism that you
think I don't think I can dothat, but the Lord is asking me
to do this, how do, how do wediscern that this is the right
(34:35):
charism that we, that we receive?
Jill Simons (34:36):
Yes.
So typically it's not that thewhole charism is like something
you're not sure you can do.
It's typically the specific waythat the Holy Spirit is calling
you to use it.
You might be like that's toobig, that's too much, that's
like more than I feel, like Ican handle, and this does happen
extremely regularly.
(34:57):
It is 100% normal part ofspiritual development as we see
it, because you're, as youprogress in your identity, that
piece of things we spoke aboutat the beginning, where you have
really adopted God's image ofyou as your image of yourself.
That's when there's a reallylike, a clear like taking off of
the training wheels.
(35:18):
I'm going to say where the Holyspirit's like okay, I've got an
invitation for you and itliterally is so large whether
it's not necessarily large insize, but it turned large in
risk Like this is so much biggerthan you have thought of or
imagined for yourself.
I'm going to invite you to dothis because you know yourself
(35:42):
and you know that you're onlygoing to get be able to get it
60% of the way to the finishline and you have got to put
your money where your mouth isand expect the Holy spirit to
get it the rest of the 40% ofthe way, but you're not going to
have any tangible physicalevidence of that until you do it
.
And that is where we're invitedto again just put our money
(36:02):
where our mouth is and like,okay, I'm saying that I am
trusting you.
Now I have to actually trustyou, because this thing
literally makes no sense unlessI trust you.
And again, the scope of thistotally different for different
people.
You have a large comfort zone.
It's probably going to be likea super massive thing.
(36:22):
You have a small comfort zone.
It might be something thatsomeone else is like that that's
your, that's your big risk,like that's not really big risk,
but but your hardest thing iswhatever the hardest thing you
have ever done is, and thatthere's really no benefit or
help in that comparison.
Because the Holy spirit meetsus where we're at and says I'm
going to stretch youspecifically, uniquely, this
(36:44):
much further than you've everbeen stretched before.
And then guess what, once we'redone, we're going to do it
again.
And this is what we see in thesaints, where what they're able
to accomplish in their lifetimeso vastly exceeds what it is
that you would expect.
And I think a great illustrativeexample that a lot of people
are familiar with is St Thereseof Lisieux.
(37:05):
Clearly a writing charism.
At work there she did enjoywriting, but it was her mother,
superior.
That was like I want you towrite this book and that was the
thing for her.
That was like so much furtherthan she was comfortable risking
, and she had the benefit of, ofthe obedience of her vocation
to be able to kind of push heracross the finish line which is
(37:25):
what we see frequently inreligious orders um to where she
was then faithful, did it?
The Holy spirit showed up andnow, whatever, a hundred and
plus years later, we're stillhaving current conversions from
this book that she wrote at thatpoint.
So this is what we expect.
Is that?
It's not.
(37:45):
It does not get easier as youprogress.
It asks you to let go more andmore.
The level of detachmentincreases just as exactly as we
expect.
The level of detachmentincreases as our holiness
increases.
So the fruit of our charisms,what the benefit I should say of
(38:06):
our charisms, is for otherpeople, but we experience this
necessary growth in holiness toprogress in them.
That is like the best sideeffect ever that the Holy Spirit
designed into the system sothat we would do both
simultaneously.
Sheila Nonato (38:24):
And so how much preparation do we need to do?
You mentioned prayer Before wetake this test, because maybe
some of the teens might bewondering I don't, I don't know
what, you know what, if myanswers are going to be correct,
or how?
Yeah, please guide us.
And even for some of the momsum, how do we, how do we prepare
for this test?
Jill Simons (38:45):
Yeah.
So, other than like Holy spirit, help me to be accurate.
That's the, that's what I wouldpray.
Holy spirit, help me to beaccurate.
And's the.
That's what I would pray.
Holy spirit helped me to beaccurate and then just dive in.
Because if you get into a realstate of like overthinking and
over-preparing and things likethat, your results will not be
accurate.
And that's the most importantthing is that it's just what is
your like off the cuff, um, gutresponse to this question.
(39:10):
That's going to be way moreaccurate than what you get to by
sitting with it for even 90seconds, like we would like to
this to go quickly and so itshould take you about 25 minutes
.
If it's getting past 30 minutes, you you are overthinking, like
it needs to and you're nothaving technical issues that
could obviously elongate it.
But if it's from you thinking,overthinking, that's where we're
(39:34):
like, okay, this might not bethe most accurate, because this
should be more organic gutinstinct responses to these
questions.
And I think the brilliant thingabout our assessment that's
really helpful is that at theend of it you receive a 25-page
PDF report.
It's very exhaustive.
(39:54):
That goes through every aspectof this.
So identity, all of thecharisms, where where you fall
in likelihood for all of thecharisms all kinds of details
about the charisms that are yourmost likely charisms and gives
you a really good foundation ofinformation to move forward in
your discernment journey.
(40:15):
But ultimately it's just goingto be a PDF on your hard drive
unless you actually take it intodiscernment.
So a lot of people do want tolike be really active and do a
bunch of things before theassessment, when in reality you
can come as you are, show up tothe assessment, ask the Holy
Spirit to help you, be accurate,and then afterwards is when
(40:36):
it's time to put in the work, toreally take the results, go
through it, pray through thoseand look at how can I get
clarity about whether this is mycharism or not by just testing
these things out.
This is literally like ascientific method situation,
like when I do this, does thisother thing that I would expect
happen?
And letting the Holy spiritgive you feedback on your
(40:59):
actions in the areas that areyour likely charisms so you can
grow in clarity about whetherthat is your charism or not.
And and the length of time thattakes is often proportionate
with both spiritual maturity andchronological age.
So if you are older and havebeen walking with Christ for a
very long time, you likely canvery accurately discern your
(41:20):
charisms.
In like one day.
You can take your results, praywith them, have a lot of
clarity because you've got anentire lifetime of evidence for
or against these differentthings.
If you are young and not asclose to the Lord, you're going
to need a lot more time becauseyou have very little personal
history to look back on what youhave done and also you're just
(41:43):
still kind of learning how theHoly Spirit does give you
feedback.
So, even on the longest end, werecommend people spend no more
than 60 days in discerning theircharisms before saying, okay,
yes, I think these are mycharisms, this is what I'm going
to focus on, this is what I amgoing to be intentional about
doing to build the church.
Sheila Nonato (42:05):
Okay, so I'm actually going to take the test
after this interview.
I'm just curious.
So once we get the results, dowe, how do we zero in on like do
we do all of them?
Do we pick one and then do weget a spiritual director?
How do we sort of or does yourministry have sort of some tools
for us to develop thesecharisms or point us towards
(42:28):
where should we go?
Some?
tools for us to develop thesecharisms or point us towards
where should we go?
Jill Simons (42:37):
Yes, absolutely.
So.
Typically, we recommend youlook at your top four to five as
your most likely charisms andto spend time with those.
If you have a bunch of ties inyour higher numbers that make
like there's, there's you know abank of maybe seven that are
all extremely similar, then Itypically encourage people to go
with what it is that is mostinteresting or most attractive
to them, because a lot of times,the Holy Spirit will draw us
(43:00):
towards what is the appropriatecall of the season, and so
there's always small ways to usethese charisms that are really
joy filled for us, even if we'realso being asked to take some
kind of big risk.
So, for instance, if someonehas a charism of music, it's
always going to be wonderful andjoy filled by and large,
(43:21):
pending other kind of largecircumstance changes, it's
always going to be joy filledfor them to like sing and play
with their friends and to beable to lead worship.
To like sing and play withtheir friends, um, and to be
able to lead worship, music andthings like that.
Maybe the big risk is, like youknow, opening for a huge
conference or being in front ofthe largest group crowd they've
ever been in front of, orsomething like that, um.
But if you scale it back, you'regoing to find a lot of peace
(43:44):
and joy and generosity, allthose good fruits of the Holy
spirit Spirit doing your charismat the level that you've been
doing it historically, so kindof in your comfort zone.
And so after you take your topfour or five, we want to first
of all pray with those as theHoly Spirit to give you feedback
on times historically that youmight have used these things
(44:07):
that you can use for evidence.
And then, ultimately, we wantto fill a bucket of evidence is
how I like to think about it.
Like you've got a bucket foreach charism.
We're looking to fill a bucketof with evidence that it is or
is not your charism and at theend of your period of
discernment, you're able to sayI did or did not receive
sufficient evidence for this tobe one of my charisms.
(44:29):
So there is guidance in how todo that in the report that you
get.
There is also a book that Iwrote called "pen your gifts.
It's behind me right there Ifyou're watching the video, and
it is a step-by-step exhaustiveguide.
This is for your personality.
If you are the kind of personthat's like, just no, no
creativity, I can't be creative,just tell me exactly what I am
(44:50):
supposed to do step-by-step.
I'm not that way, but some ofmy best friends are, so I wrote
this book for them, thinkingabout, like okay, if I have to
like, step by step by step, whatwould I tell people to do?
That's an open, your gifts.
If you are not a writer, not areader, that kind of format
(45:11):
doesn't resonate with you.
We also have other resourcesavailable.
We have our charism communitieson our website.
They're completely free.
It's like a Facebook group, butit's just on our website and
very soon maybe already at thetime that this eventually airs
we also are building a mobileapp that will have those
communities just in the mobileapp, so super accessible,
exactly like it would be onFacebook or something like that.
Or you can ask questions.
(45:31):
If you have just briefquestions about like how would I
test this or what do you thinkabout that?
And if you'd like more intense,personalized help, we do have
charismatic coaches that we havetrained, that have been
exhaustively trained by myselfon walking with people through
the discernment process, and wehave a directory of those
coaches on our website where youcan see all of them reach out
(45:54):
to them individually.
Many Parts (Ministries) doesn'thost that training currently.
That's something we hope to addin the future is actually
having like programs through us.
Right now, we just let you workdirectly with people that we
have trained.
Sheila Nonato (46:14):
That's awesome.
Jill Simons (46:15):
And so you also mentioned that.
Can you mention again the nameof the book for teens?
Yes, it's called "Passion andPurpose Charisms for Teens, and
if you search Jill Simon'sCharisms on Amazon, all six of
my books will be the first onesto come up there.
Sheila Nonato (46:29):
And for the teen test do you have to be 13?
Could you be like almost 13, 12, or is that specifically for 13
and up?
Jill Simons (46:38):
So 14 and up is kind of our main recommendation
yes, that's the mainrecommendation.
The like unwritten part is thatif you have a mature, typically
female they can usually take itas young as 12.
Never yet met a male studentthat I felt was ready before 14
(46:59):
because of the self-reportinggap.
Not because they don't havecharisms, not because they're
not capable of using them, it'sjust the ability to be accurate
about themselves is very muchundeveloped at that stage, but
some precocious girls will beable to do it a little bit
earlier.
You are the best judge of yourown child, though, so that's
(47:19):
what I would say is that ifyou're like, no, I know my kid's
ready.
You know better than me aboutwhere they are at personally,
there can absolutely be outliers.
We don't do anything to likegatekeep it in any way.
That's just our recommendation.
That was really the design.
Intent is for 14 and up, and ifyou were to have a younger
child, do it and there would beto like a low identity score,
(47:44):
maybe they wouldn't have likeany green charisms or something
like that on the chart.
Maybe they wouldn't have likeany green charisms or something
like that on the chart.
That would just tell me thatthey aren't quite there yet and
to circle back in a year or twoand let them reassess with just
that higher level ofself-awareness.
Sheila Nonato (47:59):
Okay, so if a teen does the test, so as a mom
I'd like to help them along.
Is it helpful to have your bookthen to sort of guide guide in
that process, or yeah?
Jill Simons (48:12):
So if yes, I would say after they have results, the
most important thing is forthem to have sources of
information.
So if you are interested inbecoming that source of
information, we absolutely haveeverything available for you to
be able to do that.
We have, like I said, there's,six different books, all very
(48:33):
exhaustive about being able tounderstand the discernment
process, what charisms are, whatwe would expect to be coming up
during all of those processes,so you can learn those things
yourself.
You can also be involved in thecommunities, like I talked
about, and you can also learnwith our podcast.
You can also be involved in thecommunities, like I talked
about, and you can also learnwith our podcast if you're more
(48:53):
of an auditory learner than areader.
We have a lot of episodes.
It's called Charisms forCatholics.
It's free, of course, like allpodcasts are.
That allows you to learn aboutthese things and that can be
something that you can just dotogether as a family.
You can put on the episodesabout the individual charism
that your teen ranked highly forwhen you're driving to school
(49:14):
or on a family road trip andjust have conversations about do
they understand that?
Do you understand that?
Where do you think you've seenthat in their lives and you can
just really be a resource ofinformation and clarity for them
throughout that process andthat's the most important role I
think to take is to be theperson that maybe, like, brings
(49:35):
the attention back to that,continues the conversation
around it, but recognizing alsothat this is something of theirs
to steward, especially asteenagers, as they grow, and not
necessarily something that youhave to feel amazing about how
it's being steward, because it'sit's not on your paper at the
end of the day.
Absolutely help, absolutely bea resource.
(49:57):
But the best thing you can dofor your teens is for you to
expose them to this and then bediligent about, visually for
them, learning about anddiscerning your own charisms so
that they actually have thistemplate of.
This is what we're going for.
This is what it's going to belike eventually.
This is when I have to flyacross the country to go talk.
(50:20):
I talk to my kids and I'm likeit's not that I don't want to be
with you guys, it's because itis my role to be obedient and
this is something your dad and Ihave discerned, is a part of my
charisms that I'm reallyresponsible for, and so then
they're able to look at thatwith a kind of pride of like
mom's doing what she's supposedto do and that's really cool,
(50:41):
versus this is something that'staking away from us and we're
constantly talking about what'sthat going to be for you guys
and this is something that wesee maybe coming up and they're
much younger, they're not at theteen assessment point, but that
can be translated then for thehigh schoolers, where you're
able to actually kind ofverbally process your own
journey and why it is you dowhat you do, based on your own
(51:03):
charisms with them.
Sheila Nonato (51:06):
And if they find a charism that they're not quite
ready yet for it, I guess it'sokay to just come back to it,
maybe next year or a couple ofyears from now.
Jill Simons (51:16):
Yeah, typically, if there's something that I,
there's a variety of things thatcould be going on there A lot
of times it's going to be acourage gap.
Sometimes it could be that thisis like has not really been
given in fullness, where you'renot really quite capable of
using it yet.
Maybe there's some identityhealing that needs to happen.
(51:36):
A lot of different things canbe going on, but I would say, as
long as there is a few thingsthat you can focus on using from
a good place of not trying toearn your worth, not trying to
prove to people that you're agood person, where you can
actually just like I want tofreely give this to build the
church, then that is enough atthat.
(51:57):
At that stage, if they can comeaway with one, two, three would
be great, but if it's only oneor two, that's okay, but I would
not just let it go for forever.
I think that's a great placewhere you as a parent can like
leverage technology, put it onyour Google calendar, you know,
18 months out, to like remindLucy about such and such charism
(52:19):
and just kind of circle back.
Because, like I said a lot oftimes it's a courage gap.
A lot of times it's like theyare not at a place where they
can trust God quite that much,and that's okay.
We we're constantly growing inthat, and I think that's the
only place that becomes aproblem is when we're like, okay
, not right now, and then itjust gets permanently set aside.
(52:41):
I think if there's, if youcreate some kind of backstop for
yourself, structures foryourself, to make sure that it
comes back around I do this forso many things in my spiritual
life that I'll put on mycalendar at future dates to kind
of remind me to come back thatcan be a great way to just sort
of meet them where they're at,but also not completely let it
(53:02):
go, okay.
Sheila Nonato (53:04):
And just to sort of, if there are any listeners
out there who are thinking, youknow when you think of charism
they might think charismatic,like that's not necessarily like
the same thing.
Jill Simons (53:16):
Right, correct, well so this is so similar to
the gifts conversation where I'mjust like Catholic church
there's so many words we couldhave thought of different words
for different things, becauseall of these words being used in
different ways does certainlymuddy the water.
So charismatic means relatingto the free gift given to the
(53:37):
lady, like the free gift ofgrace given to the lady.
That's what it means.
And so charismatic, like thecharismatic renewal, charismatic
masses.
All of these things arerelating to the free gifts of
grace given by the Holy Spiritto the lady.
That is true.
But the charismatic movement,the way that we would think
about it, and that kind of like,you know, almost Catholic
(54:00):
Pentecostalism, where we havethis like emphasis on very
specific iterations of the HolySpirit healing, prophecy,
praying in tongues, things likethat those are things that are
valid opportunities for thelaity to be exploring the free
gift of grace that they've giventhem.
But that's only about 7% of thefree gifts of grace that the
(54:26):
Holy Spirit gives to the church,and charism looks at the whole
hundred percent like spectrumthat it can be.
So it is, though it might beuncomfortable for a person with
administration and service andgiving to call themselves
charismatic when they're doingthose things because, from their
(54:46):
perspective, their life isspreadsheets and stacking chairs
and writing checks.
That is still a charismaticexpression of the faith, and so
I think that I, my personalgifts and spirituality aligns
very strongly with thecharismatic renewal movement,
and so I found a great homethere.
(55:07):
That said, I work withthousands of people for whom
that is not the case, and thatis completely fine and does not
have anything to do one way orthe other with your ability to
have and use your charisms,which are also confusingly
charismatic.
Sheila Nonato (55:28):
Okay, that's good to know.
In case somebody is wonderingdo I have to be charismatic?
And no, you don't just have tobe Catholic or Christian.
actually, Is it only
Jill Simons (55:38):
Baptized.
Yes, anyone validly baptized,so so it would be.
Is it a Baptism that the Holy,that the, I'm sorry, that the
Roman Catholic church wouldrecommend or recognize as being
a baptism, that, yes, you havegot charism.
So this is all in common withour Protestant brothers and
sisters and they're way betterat talking about this honestly
than we are because I think thatthe treasure chest of the
(55:58):
Catholic church is so just soenormous that we kind of like
left lost this one in the backleft corner for a couple hundred
years and we're really justrediscovering the huge gift that
this is.
That, I think, is very specificfor this time, because there's
so many options now and there'sso much noise that the Holy
(56:20):
spirit, I think, in its wisdom,really has has elevated this
conversation about personalspiritual gifts to give us a
tool to combat that, to be ableto better understand, like, okay
, yes, I can be a hundredthousand different things when I
grew up, whereas growing up inrural France, there was like
maybe six jobs you could do, youknow, and there was so much
(56:41):
smaller area of places you couldgo in your life and and then,
given like the technology andall that, in any given moment.
There's probably a hundredthousand different things you
could be doing, even afteryou've chosen your vocation and
chosen your job.
The, the charisms, helps us,like put the horse blinders on,
(57:02):
like, okay, sure, yes, there'sso many things, can't do all of
them.
I'm going to actually sit withand create some silence,
actually understand what it isthat is specific to me, and I'm
going to block out everythingelse.
And that's something that Ithink happened way more
(57:22):
organically at earlier ages ofthe church that we're really
needing to actually beintentional about and make space
for now.
Sheila Nonato (57:32):
And was there anything that I did not touch
upon that you'd like to sharewith the listeners?
Jill Simons (57:38):
I don't think so.
This was awesome, Like wideranging, covered, kind of all
the high points.
I think the biggest thing isthat the devil loves to tell
people who listen to sort ofintroductory episodes like this
be like, "oh, but that's not you.
Like, you don't actually haveanything to offer.
This isn't actually, this isfor people who have podcasts and
write books and all of thesethings.
(57:58):
"And it's just such a lie that
the whole goal is to get youfeeling like you are expendable
to the church.
Like, you know you're doing yourSunday obligation and raising
your family and doing your best,but like who would really
notice if you weren't there?
And that is such a such a lieand it is so pervasive in the
(58:21):
church and it is so malignantwithin the church for people to
believe that because there is100% someone in your home,
someone in your parish, someonein your Bible study going
without.
If you do not use your charisms, like this is.
This is taking food out ofsomebody's mouth in some way.
(58:42):
This is removing a grace fromsomebody else's life.
If you don't do these things,they are full of joy to do, they
are full of fruit to use and we, Sheila and I, need you to do
these things because we are inthe Body of Christ with you, and
when it says in Scripture, whenone part suffers, we all suffer
(59:03):
with it and we're living in abody content with just such
malnourishment and strugglebecause we're not recognizing
how to be healthy individualcells in the body of Christ that
create a healthy whole.
Sheila Nonato (59:21):
Yes, absolutely, and I sort of liken it to, you
know, on the airplane, you putyour life vest on first and then
you can help your children.
And before doing this podcastand writing, returning to
writing, I was actually a stayat home mom for 11 years, or
maybe more now 12 years but Ijust, yeah, I had that.
You know the devil came andsaid you know what you're doing.
(59:43):
You know I feel like small incomparison to other women who
were working and but then, asI've been sort of growing in my
faith and learning about, youknow, other stay at home moms
who are listening to this, youknow it's, it's a big job,
motherhood is a big job that youknow.
Maybe the rewards or the fruitsof your, of your labor are going
(01:00:08):
to be seen later on in life, ormaybe in heaven, we don't know.
But we pour ourselves into ourfamilies and sometimes we do
forget about ourselves.
But knowing, you know, thegifts, the care sorry, the
charisms that the Holy Spirithas, you know, given us or has
empowered us with, that canreally help us in our own
(01:00:29):
motherhood, in our own families,to sort of inspire our own
children.
That you know there's no suchthing as I'm just a mom, like
there's no such thing, becauseit's a big, big job that you
know.
Unfortunately a lot of youngwomen are not choosing at this
time, but it is very, it's hard,but it's fruitful and very
(01:00:49):
rewarding.
And also having your identityrooted in Christ, anchored in
Christ, and knowing thatidentity.
I think this test will help youin that, to sort of secure you
know who you are in Christ andnot to belittle that, because
there's no such thing as a smallvocation.
So I really thank you forjoining us, and can you tell us
(01:01:10):
please where can we find you?
Jill Simons (01:01:13):
Yes, if you go to manypartsministries.
com, everything I've talkedabout in this episode will be
accessible from there.
The two other places that youcan go that we talked about is
straight to Amazon to buy thephysical copies of the book.
We have digital copies of thebook on our websites and then
also, if you want to just listento our podcast in a podcast app
, wherever you're listening tothis.
(01:01:33):
Now we're on YouTube, we're onall the podcast app just at Many
Parts Ministries, and the showis called Charisms for Catholics
.
Sheila Nonato (01:01:41):
Well, thank you so much.
That is an awesome show, so Ido recommend everyone to listen
to that.
Thank you so much again foryour time and for bearing with
us with our technicaldifficulties.
I sincerely appreciate it, andGod bless you and your ministry
and your family.
Jill Simons (01:01:54):
You too, Sheila, God bless.
Sheila Nonato (01:01:55):
Take care, thank you, bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to theVeil and Armour podcast.
Co-hosts (01:02:14):
I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom
today.
Please subscribe to our podcastand YouTube channel and please
spread the word.
Let's Be Brave, let's Be Boldand Be Blessed together.
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