November 24, 2025 • 61 mins
Parenting today can feel like being in a tornado or holding back a storm brewing in the background —graphic headlines on every feed, smartphones in every pocket, and a culture that treats faith as a long-lost relic of an age gone by. We invited Dr. Ray Guarendi—clinical psychologist, EWTN host, and father of ten adopted children—to help us navigate the chaos with clear judgment, deep faith, and steady authority. The result is a candid, practical roadmap for raising resilient kids in a world that tests every boundary.
We start with the hard question: how do we help children process violence they may see online, specifically news of recent school shooting at Annunciation Church in Minnesota and the targeted killing of prominent debater and podcaster Charlie Kirk? Dr. Ray shares age-specific guidance for shielding younger kids and engaging teens through thoughtful questions that surface doubts, fears, and assumptions. From there, we dismantle the “safety as a reason for smartphones" myth that may be used by some people, with the flip-phone test, then rebuild a practical path of parenthood: privileges earned through trustworthiness, strong filters, paired devices, and limited apps. You’ll hear why consistency matters more than speeches, and how to replace arguments with calm consequences that work—like the blackout method that ends endless negotiations.
We also confront the myth that high standards cause rebellion. Standards give direction; love must always be accompanied with discipline. Dr. Ray shows how authority, delivered with affection, keeps homes peaceful and frees room for joy and humour. (Dr. Ray's got jokes, folks, lol) He opens up about adopting without boundaries, relying on grace, and finding laughter in the mess.
We close with hope for parents whose older kids have drifted from the faith. Even Christ, perfect in love, was rejected by many; your job is to witness, pray, and keep the light on. The seeds you planted can still bear fruit when the world’s promises fall flat.
If you’re ready to parent with courage—setting firm boundaries, cultivating daily prayer, and guiding your kids through a noisy culture—this conversation will steady your steps. Listen, share with a friend who needs backup, and subscribe for more faith-filled, practical episodes. Your calm conviction is the compass your family needs.
A Big "Thank you" to Dr. Ray Guarendi and Taylor Wilson! Wishing you and our American sisters and brothers a Blessed Thanksgiving Week!!!
For Dr. Ray Guarendi's books, radio and TV episodes, and speaking engagements, please visit:
https://www.drray.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (00:00):
Discipline without love may be harsh.
Love without discipline ischild abuse.
And the reason for that is, anda lot of your a lot of your
listeners and viewers, Sheila,have very high standards.
Their standards are higher thanthe cultures.
Here's where they struggle.
Sheila Nonato (00:26):
Hello and welcome to the Veil + Armour Podcast.
This is your host, SheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist.
Seeking the guidance of theHoly Spirit and the inspiration
of Our Lady, I strive to tellstories that inspire,
illuminate, and enrich the livesof Catholic women to help them
in living out our vocation ofraising the next generation of
(00:48):
leaders and saints.
Co-Host (00:50):
Please join us every week on the Veil in Armour
Podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
land and mother's heart.
Welcome to this week's EpisodeSisters in Christ.
Sheila Nonato (01:00):
For this week's topic, we will look at how do we
parent in the digital age?
Do the traditional parentingmethods, the idea of discipline,
do we throw that out the windowfor these new theories of
parenting?
Let's talk to top Catholicexpert on marriage and
parenting, clinicalpsychologist, and father of 10
(01:21):
adopted children, Dr.
Ray Guarandi, the one and onlyfrom EWTN.
Thank you very much for joiningus, and let's hear some
practical tips and encouragementfor Christian mothers and
Christian parents.
Welcome to the Veil and ArmourPodcast, and we are humbled and
honored to have Dr.
Ray Guarandi on our family'spodcast apostolate.
(01:42):
It's quite fitting that he is amilitary father whose children
have served in Afghanistan,Iraq, Africa, and Korea.
Since our podcast is Veil andArmour, Dr.
Grandi is a Catholic husband,father to 10 adopted children,
clinical psychologist, author ofover 20 books, professional
speaker, international radio andTV host.
(02:05):
And for over 40 years, Dr.
Ray's in-depth experience hasled to helping thousands
eliminate parenting frustrationsand build stronger marriages by
showing them proven parentingtechniques and following their
God-given instincts to raisetheir kids for heaven.
His radio show that "DoctorIs In" can be heard on EWTN,
(02:27):
Global Catholic Radio Network,Cirrus XM, iHeartRadio, and over
500 domestic and internationalAM and FM radio affiliates.
His TV show, "Living Right withDr.
Ray," can be seen on EWTN, andyou can find his books on his
website, drray.com.
Wow, Dr.
(02:48):
Ray, I am so humbled andhonoured again that you're here
with us.
We have so much to learn fromyou.
Can you please start us offwith a prayer?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (02:57):
Sure.
In the name of the Father, ofthe Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Amen.
Dear Lord, please give us thegood words to say.
Thank you so much that we arealive.
We know what we know.
You've allowed us to know whatwe know.
Please give us words that willhelp others to know you better
(03:19):
and to see your truths.
In your name we pray to theFather.
Amen.
In the Namee of the Father,the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Amen.
Sheila Nonato (03:29):
Thank you very much for that.
And so it's been quite a fewweeks in the news cycle.
We've had the tragic, horrificshooting of the Catholic
children at Annunciation Churchnot too long ago.
Um, the murder of the twochildren, Fletcher and Harper,
who are Heaven's newest saints,um, along with St.
(03:50):
Carlo Acutis, of course, andthe high-profile murder of
conservative podcaster CharlieKirk.
Now, how do we how do you to behonest, Dr.
Ray, I'm also strugglingmyself.
I was to be honest, I was justuh turned on my computer and
without any warning, it was onX, the video, the assassination
(04:11):
video.
No filter, no warning.
And to be, I'm sorry, I mightcry because I'm still struggling
to process what I saw.
Like I have been in the MiddleEast, I've reported on
terrorism, um, you know, crime,but I haven't seen an actual
person get killed.
You know, I've talked tosurvivors, but this really shook
(04:32):
me.
And I wasn't sure how toexplain it to my children.
How how would you suggest whatwould you suggest for us?
How do we explain it,especially for children who
might have seen it?
Because we, you know, Gen Alphais the, I guess, the the
children who have grown up inthe digital age.
And how do we explain it tothem and how do we help them if
they are struggling?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (04:52):
Depends on the age, Sheila.
Now, your little guy that I sawthere, right, the beginning of
this podcast, there's no reasonfor him to see or even know
about this.
To the degree you can shelterhim from it.
Don't have the TV on when he'saround.
Don't let him look over yourshoulder to whatever you're
scrolling through.
(05:12):
That's the first thing.
Now, if you got kids going to aschool where they're going to
hear this stuff and they'regoing to raise questions, then
you're going to have to addressit.
Simple way to do it.
Honey, God tells us how tolive.
He knows the best way for us tolive.
(05:32):
Some people ignore God, they dowhat they want.
Either because they think Goddoesn't exist or because they
don't like what He says.
And God allows that.
But for right now, there arepeople who do wrong things,
(05:58):
very, very wrong things.
Sheila, some parents questionthat if a child is exposed to
this, let's say you got a 10- or11-year-old who's exposed to
this, that somehow it's going torock their faith, somehow it's
going to shake them uppsychologically.
You can dramatically minimizethat if you if you acknowledge
(06:23):
that it happens, and youacknowledge in God's overall
scheme of things that He willsort it out.
Parents will say to me, Well,my son saw that.
He saw that on a scroll.
He saw it.
And you say, honey, that's whylife is so valuable.
(06:45):
Because the taking of a life isvery ugly.
It's not like anything somebodywould see on the movies.
It's not like anything somebodywould see in a video game.
The real thing is very, veryugly.
And that's why God says somuch, don't do it.
Keep your examples, yourexplanation short and to the
(07:06):
point.
You don't have to get intougly, nitty-gritty details.
You know, you got a little kid,it's eight, nine, ten, eleven.
Enough is enough.
You explain it to them and youtell them this is why it is so
important to do it God's way.
Sheila Nonato (07:24):
And uh so for the older children, uh, let's say
teens, um, if they're having ahard time processing, like would
you suggest they write it down?
They talk to the priest.
Um, you know, if let's say theparent is also struggling to
comprehend, how do you actuallyexplain evil, right?
So if you're struggling tocomprehend and the teen is also
struggling, going throughdifferent emotions, um what,
(07:48):
yeah, do do they, is it okay towrite it out?
Um, and then yeah, go tospiritual direction.
Um, what do you suggest?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (07:56):
Much of the time that's not necessary.
I would suggest this.
When you use the wordstruggling to process it, what
you're really saying, Sheila, isthat they got a whole bunch of
ideas and questions in theirhead that they don't have
answers for, that don't make anysense to them.
Why would such a good man in somany people's eyes be at age 31
(08:21):
snuffed out?
Well, you ask them, what do youthink about this?
What do you think it means?
Does that affect how you seeGod?
Does that affect how you seeother people?
Do you have a question aboutthis on why God would seemingly
stand by and allow it to happen?
(08:42):
I want to know what's insideyour head.
That's the way you got to doit.
Kind of like a kind of like alay psychologist.
Somebody comes into my office,I gotta find out why they think
the way they think.
Even if I think it'sridiculous, even if I think
they're all twisted up in theirthinking, I've at least got to
ask enough questions and exploreit enough to know, okay, this
is what's disturbing them.
(09:04):
This is what they don't have ananswer for, this is how they're
interpreting this that doesn'tfit with reality.
And that's what you do with theolder kids.
You say, okay, I want to knowhow you see this.
How do you understand it?
What doubts does it raise foryou about anything?
About God?
(09:24):
About people, about violence?
I want to know.
Only, Sheila, when you knowwhat's going on percolating
inside their head, can youactually address it in some way?
Sheila Nonato (09:40):
Okay.
Uh well, thank you for that.
And I was listening to yourradio show.
You had to address this issue,and you were talking about how
your daughter had postedsomething on Facebook, and
somebody she didn't know, atotal stranger, didn't agree
with her, um, just posting thething, and actually told her
such um, I can't even believesomebody would say this to a
person they don't know, but saidyour daughter is pregnant, and
(10:02):
she said she hoped her babywould die because she had a
positive uh post about CharlieKirk.
How did we get to thissituation?
Like we're supposed to advanceas a society uh with all of our
technological advancements,right?
We should be like superintelligent.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (10:21):
Progressive ideas say.
I don't call them progressive,I call them regressive because
they're throwing off wisdom ofthe millennia, they're throwing
off the wisdom of God.
There's a complex brew ineffect right now.
A couple of major themes.
One, as a society decides thatGod is irrelevant, that his way
(10:44):
of doing things, his way ofwanting us to live our lives, is
is really an impingement.
It doesn't belong here.
He's unsophisticated, even ifhe exists.
So the more that takes hold ofa society, as G.K.
Chesterton said, when peoplestop believing in God, it's not
that they believe in nothing,they believe in anything.
(11:08):
The second thing is somethinghas got to fill that hole.
What is going to decide howsociety thinks morally?
Well, in our case, this is nolonger a farm in 1880.
This is no longer a village in1115 in Africa.
This is a society that sayswe've got all kinds of
(11:31):
technology that will swamp yourbrain and will tell you how to
think and give you informationthat may or may not be true.
But one thing is certain, wegot a whole lot of people
telling you this is a better wayto think and to believe and to
act than what we used to thinkeven 60 years ago, 80 years ago.
(11:55):
Y ou never had school shootings80 years ago.
They were unheard of.
It was impossible.
When I used to go pick up myfriends at the airport, I walked
all the way to the gate.
I just stood at the gate andwaited for them to come in.
My mom and dad told me how theynever ever locked their doors.
They left their keys in theircars.
They never had their carsstolen or carjacked.
(12:17):
So as society leaves God'sways, the stuff that fills in
can be very evil.
And there are vulnerable peoplewho absorb that.
It's very common.
It doesn't surprise me as apsychologist at all.
I was not shocked by what thatwoman said to my daughter.
(12:38):
It was hideous, but it didn'tshock me because I've come to
sort of expect that this is whatyou get when you say God
doesn't matter.
His ways are for a pastime whenpeople were unsophisticated,
and we now know how to livebetter morally, sexually, and
every other way.
This is what's happening.
Sheila Nonato (13:01):
And I guess I wanted to um bring up also your
book, "Raising Upright Kids inan Upside-down World," which is
what we're talking about rightnow, and specifically your
chapter on phone smart.
So smartphones are supposed tomake us smarter, but is it
really?
So um, you have some tips, andactually, my children don't.
(13:21):
I'm not trying to be uh on amoral high ground here.
My children don't have cellphones just because we stop
right there, Sheila.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (13:28):
Yeah, you just illustrated, you illustrated a
classic example of what goodparents are doing to second
guess themselves.
First of all, you did a wisething.
You said, "I'm not going togive my kids a smartphone at the
age that the culture is givingit, okay?" You apologized.
(13:50):
You said, "I'm not trying to bethe moral high ground." Wait a
minute.
This has nothing to do withmoral high ground.
You made a decision that isyours to make as a mother and is
yours to make as a faith-filledChristian, even though the
culture doesn't understand itand they outvote you 95 to 5.
Irrelevant.
(14:10):
You've decided this is not agood thing for my kids and their
soul, especially at a youngerage.
But yet you kind of said, What?
And I had one mom say this tome, Sheila.
She said, "Well, if it were upto me," and I said, "Stop right
there.
Who's it up to?" Oh, I know,but but she's 13.
(14:34):
Every one of her friends hasone.
All of them have one.
That's how they communicate,that's how they're social.
I go, would you think it's agood thing?
No.
Okay.
Your daughter's not growing upin a vacuum.
She's not going to have friendsbecause she doesn't have this
thing attached to her in thepalm of her hand that can put
(14:55):
her in touch with the wholeworld, good, bad, ugly,
indifferent, and vile.
But see parents of faithapologize.
See how easily it it it shapeseven us?
Sheila Nonato (15:12):
Well, I'm uh to be honest, I'm feeling pressure
to to do it because everyonearound me has it.
And how do you how do theycommunicate?
Um, how do they have friends?
Uh, you know, how do they yeah,sorry?
Let's do a little simple test.
Sure.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (15:29):
When I ask parents, what's the number one
reason you gave your child asmartphone that basically has
contact with the whole universe?
What do you think they say?
Sheila Nonato (15:40):
Safety.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (15:41):
Yes, absolutely.
I gotta know where she is andwhat she's doing.
There are several answers tothat, and I talk about it in the
book.
The first answer is if she'swith any group of kids, every
single one of them has asmartphone.
So there's no problem withhaving a smartphone.
Everybody around her has asmartphone.
Okay, that's one.
Two, say, you're right, honey.
(16:01):
You're right.
Safety issue.
I want you to be able to get ahold of me.
Here's a flip phone.
Oh, oh, get that thing away fromme.
Oh, no, I'm not gonna use that,mom.
That's so lame.
No, and everybody's gonna lookat me like I'm some kind of
weirdo.
You see what I mean?
It's not a safety issue.
It's a I want the latest andthe greatest.
There's the difference.
(16:23):
That's the test.
Just offer him a smartphone.
Or offer them a phone that onlyhas three numbers: you, the
police, and pizza.
See if they go, oh, great.
Thank you so much, Mom.
This is wonderful.
They'll refuse it.
Every time they'll refuse it.
Because that's really not theissue.
The issue is I want this.
(16:44):
You know, the irony here,Sheila.
10, 12 years ago, I wasscreaming from the top of the
mountain, don't do this.
It's too early.
It's too early.
What's what do you think theaverage age of a kid getting a
smartphone now is?
Sheila Nonato (16:59):
I was just reading your book, so I think
four.
I don't know, four and up.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (17:03):
They're on devices and four.
Sheila Nonato (17:05):
Okay.
Maybe nine?
I don't know.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (17:07):
And ten.
Yeah.
Between nine and now, if yourkid's 13 and doesn't have one,
oh, oh my gosh.
You're you're in the bottom 5%,maybe 2%.
Okay.
So back then I said, this isgonna radically change how your
kids look at life, how theythink, how they look at
relationships, what they thinkmorals are, where they go,
(17:31):
radically so.
And I felt like, okay, this issome guy's opinion.
All right, big deal.
He's got some letters after hisname.
Now the research is coming outin waves, Sheila.
In waves, that we have allowedthis technology to misshape our
children.
One of the sadder things in myoffice, a parent will be sitting
(17:55):
with a teenager and say, Idon't know who that is.
We didn't raise him that way.
And I'll say, I believe you, Ibelieve you didn't, but I think
you underestimated what did.
Because all too often, if yougo with the flow of the culture,
(18:15):
now I'm not saying you have tobe Amish or quasi-amish, okay?
Don't mishear me.
But what I'm saying is don'tlet the culture dictate when
you're going to say, okay, thepressure's getting too intense.
All right, I'll relent.
Here's another thing I'venoticed, and I think I addressed
this in the book.
I don't remember, She.
(18:36):
I used to say back in the olddays when I wrote my first book
that parents are parentingwanting to be psychologically
correct.
And you hear that all the time.
Well, what should I have said?
Is that what I should havedone?
Is this the best thing to do inthis situation?
How would you handle this, Dr.
(18:56):
Ray?
So there's this question of amI being psychologically correct
in raising my kids?
What I've noticed now, Sheila,with the onslaught of
technology, parents areparenting also in fear.
"If I don't give her asmartphone, is she gonna get
(19:17):
deceptive?
Is she gonna resent me?
Is she gonna hate me?
Is she gonna hate me?
Is she gonna go to her friendsand I live tell them I live with
a psycho parent who's a weirdoreligious freak who doesn't let
me have a normal life?
Even her mother doesn't agreewith her.
My grandma doesn't agree withher.
(19:38):
My grandma thinks she'sstunting my social development."
So now the parents are like, Idon't want to mess up.
I don't want my kid to hate me.
And I always give them thisoption.
Say, okay, let's say that yourkid doesn't understand your
reasoning, your kid disagreeswith your reasoning, and your
kid is even going to do anythingshe can.
(20:00):
And I use she a lot becausesmartphones affect girls more
than boys.
I said, she's gonna do anythingshe can to get around you.
Her friends will give her aphone.
One of my daughters, we tookfive phones away from her
because she was 16 and she wasmishandling it.
And so when we took it, herfriends would give her another
one.
Then we'd have to catch thatone.
(20:20):
And we took it, friends wouldgive her another one.
So which is worse?
Your child resisting whatyou're doing with this
smartphone decision, or how thesmartphone will shape who she
is, which is worse.
I've also said this to parentSheila.
(20:42):
If my kids go astray, I want tobe able to say it's because
they had to go through me thanbecause I stepped aside.
Sheila Nonato (20:58):
Um yeah, those are powerful words, powerful
advice.
And um, just to go back to yourbook, um, you s you wrote, and
a privilege, so a phone is not abirthright, it is a privilege,
and a privilege must be earned.
Uh so in terms of, you know,how do you how does a kid earn a
cell phone?
There was, I I was joking to myhusband, the only time they're
(21:18):
gonna get a cell phone is ifthey're a CEO of their own
company.
Because what do you need itfor, right?
Um didn't yeah.
So, but yeah, is there an age,an appropriate?
Is there like scientificstudies that say this is the
right age to give a phone?
Can you help us uh decide this?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (21:36):
There's plenty of scientific studies that say
this is the wrong age to give aphone, that's for sure.
Okay.
I would say this (21:41):
the question is not age, the question is
trustworthiness.
You see how your child conductshim or herself across a whole
range of situations.
You know what they're like, youknow how they think, you know
how they view things, you knowhow morally they are solid.
(22:03):
You know these things.
You're the best judge of thatof anybody, more than any shrink
because you live with thatchild.
That's how you gaugetrustworthiness.
Now, when you decide, okay,we're going to go with the
phone.
One, it's a trial.
It's not, it's not totallydeterminate.
(22:26):
It is a trial.
Two, put all kinds of safetymechanisms on that phone.
I saw a recent survey that saidover 50% of parents have
absolutely no safety conditionson that phone.
You can pair that phone to yourphone so that anything that
(22:49):
goes out or in to your child'sphone, you know.
You see it on your phone.
You could do that.
It's easily done.
You can give a phone that hasaccess to no apps.
You can do that.
There's all kinds of things youcan do.
So at age 15, she's holding asmartphone in her hand, but her
friends don't have to know thatshe can't access all the stuff
(23:11):
she wants to access.
Do that.
Now, here's the question (23:13):
What do you do if the phone is
misused?
If, in fact, there are texts,there are language used uh in
the extreme, there's uhsexuality stuff all over it, and
I can't tell you how manyparents get burned with that
one, okay, because they think,well, my kids were all growing
(23:35):
up on a faith-field Catholicfamily, and she's not gonna do
that kind of stuff.
Oh yeah?
Come on.
It's not that she's a bad kid,it's just the temptation is
right here in her face.
Okay, so given that, the parentsays, Well, how long should I
take it?
And I say, that's not thequestion.
That's not the question.
There's no manual that says,Well, if they do this two weeks,
(23:56):
if they do this four weeks, ifthey do No.
The question is, should shehave had it to begin with?
You made an error in judgment.
You thought I I thought shecould handle it.
I thought this was somethingshe would have with her
responsibly.
I find out different.
She cheated on a test with it.
(24:16):
She had it in her room at nightuntil two in the morning.
She's been texting some guythat is bad news, but now she
thinks she's in love with himbecause they've been texting
back and forth for two months.
Do you know what percentage ofboys ages 11 to 19, Sheila, have
come across pornography?
Sheila Nonato (24:38):
50?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:40):
90.
Sheila Nonato (24:41):
90.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:42):
90.
Sheila Nonato (24:43):
Oh, wow.
So like inside the home oroutside the home?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:47):
Either on their device or the computer.
Oh, wow.
Sheila Nonato (24:50):
Okay.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:51):
So so given that, oh, maybe at a friend's
house, okay.
So so given that, the questionbecomes, what kind of what kind
of conditions am I gonna put onthis thing?
And these are conditions,Sheila, that the culture is not
putting on them.
So you're gonna feel isolated.
You're gonna feel like aweirdo.
(25:11):
All right, you already feellike a weirdo.
You homeschool, you're alreadya weirdo, okay?
So you're gonna be a weirdo, bea weirdo all the
way. (Friends, Dr. Ray has got jokes lol)But here's what you have in your
favor.
There is research, there aresurveys and follow-up studies
that say parents who raise theirkids in a faith-filled home
(25:35):
have a much higher chance ofthose kids being stable,
responsible, moral adults.
Even if there's bouncing alongthe way.
So that's the one thing youlook for.
Sheila Nonato (25:53):
Um, and so I guess it sort of lends itself to
you touched upon, you know, cancontrols on the phone, um, when
you you should give it, if youwant to, if you're going down
that route.
Um discipline.
So I forgive me if I if Ibutcher your quote.
I think you said lack ofdiscipline is like child abuse.
(26:13):
Now, what what do you meanexactly?
Can you explain to us?
For those who haven't heardyour amazing talks.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (26:18):
Here's the full core.
Here's the full quote.
"Discipline without love may beharsh.
Love without discipline ischild abuse." And the reason for
that is because the world isgoing to hurt that child.
If your standards are loose andfuzzy and not enforced, and a
(26:40):
lot of your a lot of yourlisteners and viewers, Sheila,
have very high standards.
Their standards are higher thanthe cultures.
Here's where they struggle inenforcing those standards.
If they have a standard thatyou you are not to be
disrespectful, that's astandard, absolutely.
There's no disrespect in thishome.
But in fact, they're looseabout enforcing that standard.
(27:03):
You know, your daughter has just
snotted off to you.
What'd you do about it?
Well, I told her we don't talkthat way.
I got that.
What'd you do about it?
Well, she knows.
She knows we don't allowdisrespect.
Yes.
What'd you do about it?
Well, I gave her a warning.
What'd you do about it?
You see what I'm saying?
They're not enforcing it.
So given that, you don'tdiscipline now, the world will
(27:26):
later.
The world will hurt your kid.
Judge, landlord, army sergeant,police officer, employer, a
wife.
Ooh, that's a rough one.
Given that, I don't want theworld to discipline my kids.
I want to do it because I lovethem.
And I hug them and kiss themafterwards, and I talk about it
with them afterwards.
The world's not going to dothat.
(27:46):
Some employer's not going tosay, well, you know, you've been
late three days in a row, andapparently you must be tired.
So I'll tell you what you do.
If you're going to be late,just call me.
So this, you know, this way Ican find somebody else until
you're ready to come in, andthat would be good, or I'll
cover for you.
That's not going to happen.
There's going to be aconsequence after a while.
(28:06):
You're fired.
Get out of here.
Well, that's world discipline.
That's certainly a lot harsherthan sitting in a chair because
you kicked over your brother'sblocks.
Sheila Nonato (28:19):
So by discipline, you mean if you say something,
you can't have this until youfinish your chores.
And if they don't, they don'tdo it, there must be a
consequence.
Is that what you're saying?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (28:31):
The number discipline problem I deal with,
Sheila, and this became veryapparent early in my career.
When you read stuff aboutdiscipline, and I've always
maintained this, the averageexpert is really uneasy with
discipline.
They don't like it.
They think a child can bereasoned with, they think a
(28:53):
child will understand.
If you get down on their leveland you explain it, the child's
gonna go, oh, father, I've beenso blind.
Of course, you make suchperfect sense.
Why didn't you just explain itto me that way?
Love ya.
They're kids, they don'tunderstand three-quarters of
this stuff.
So what I say to parents is,okay, if you have just an
(29:16):
operating simple little houserule, you can't mistreat a
sibling.
You can't.
You can't call her names, youcan't torment her, you can't
look at her like you're anidiot.
You know, you can't do that.
You're not allowed to mistreata sibling.
That's a rule.
All right.
So now you say, well, here'swhat we're gonna do about this.
(29:36):
When you do this, let's say thekid's 11, you're gonna sit
down, you're gonna write 20 nicethings about your sister.
Make them up.
I do with your father.
And the kid looks at you like,I'm not doing that.
I'm not doing that.
That's ridiculous.
(29:56):
Not doing it.
Okay, now we're.
What do you do as a parent?
Do you yell and scream?
Do you argue?
Do you threaten?
Sheila Nonato (30:05):
What do you do?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (30:07):
Here's a technique I developed many,
many, many, many years ago whena woman came into my office.
She had a 14-year-old son.
And this kid, she had allowedhim to get away with a lot for a
long time.
And he was now to the pointwhere if she tried to discipline
him, he was going to fight her.
He was going to resist it.
He was going to argue.
He was going to threaten.
He was just going to flat outrefuse.
(30:29):
So I said, Well, okay, youdecide what you think is a good
consequence for that particulartype of misbehavior.
When he doesn't do it,immediately, immediately, he is
shut down.
Every single privilege that hehas at your hands, whatever it
(30:51):
is outside, friends, perks,privileges, favorite hoodie,
dessert, everything.
And parents don't realize howmuch they control.
Shuts down until you get yourconsequence.
And she said, Wow.
She goes, you know what thatsounds like?
I go, what's that?
She said, that that sounds likea blackout.
(31:12):
I said, oh, what a great name.
And that's what I suggest toparents.
If that little five-year-old,well, your little guy there,
Sheila, how how old was he rightbefore the podcast here?
He's he's five.
Five, okay.
So he does something.
What's his name, honey?
James.
James.
I got a James.
Sheila Nonato (31:31):
James Michael Raymond, actually.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (31:33):
Oh, why'd you pay?
Put my name third.
Should have been at leastmaybe.
Sorry.
Okay.
So James does something.
Whatever it is, some littlescrap kid thing.
And you say, okay, James, go tothe corner, please.
And he looks at you like, whoare you talking to?
(31:54):
You talking to me?
I don't think so.
I see your mouth moving, but Idon't hear no words coming out.
So what are you gonna do,Sheila?
Are you gonna go?
I said, go to the corner.
And he looks at you.
He goes to the corner, butafter 32 seconds, he comes out.
James, get back in that corner.
(32:16):
So see, that's the kind ofstuff that makes parents go to
confession every two hours.
You know?
Bless me, father.
Um, before I had children, Iwas pretty nice.
Now I don't think I'm pretty ornice.
So what happens is you getangry, you get frustrated, you
(32:36):
argue, you threaten.
James leaves the corner, youdon't say a word.
As a matter of fact, when youtold him to go to the corner and
he refused, you don't say aword.
Every single thing that he asksfor or he has, after that, you
look at him with a puzzled lookon your face as if to say, Oh
(33:00):
no, James, you you don't getyour stuffed animal, those are
gone.
I uh haven't got my corner yet.
Oh no, James, we're gonna drivethrough McDonald's and I'm
gonna get a Sunday, you're gonnawatch.
I haven't gotten my corner yet.
Oh no, James, you can't gooutside.
I haven't gotten my corner yet.
I'll tell you what, Sheila, forthe little kids, say the kids
(33:23):
under ten.
If that doesn't work in a day ortwo, so that all you have to
say is, James, go to the corner,please.
Go to the corner, please.
Five words.
That's it.
Works every time.
Parents will say to me, Well,um, yeah, but what what kind of
(33:49):
consequence should I use?
I go, that's up to you.
Use what you want.
You know, if you got a10-year-old kid, they make him
write sentences.
You got a 12-year-old, make himwrite an essay of apology.
That's the one the kids refuse,by the way.
That is the one that if youhave a teenager and you come up
with this essay of apology,300-word handwritten essay of
(34:10):
apology, they look at you like,who you've been listening to?
You can't think of this on yourown.
You talk to that Roy Ginoldidude or whatever, Dr.
Evil, whatever that guy's nameis.
Shut him down.
Shut him down.
It works really well.
You're not being mean.
(34:31):
You're not you're not smashinga gnat with a sledgehammer.
It is mean to fight with a kid.
That's what's mean.
The consequence isn't mean.
I just asked you to write anessay of apology to your sister
for calling her that name.
That's not mean.
That says, look, you can't dothis, and I know I can't reason
you into not doing it, so I'mgonna put some consequences on
(34:53):
it.
Okay, that's how the worldoperates.
Sheila Nonato (34:58):
Well, Dr.
Ray, I have to confess it isnot a confession.
But a few, maybe last year.
Uh, so there's this whole thingwith lighthouse parenting,
supposedly, combining nurturing,loving, protecting,
communicating.
Um, be a guide to your childrenand swoop in when you need to,
but let them grow.
But I kind of fell to thisexpert mentality last maybe a
(35:20):
few months ago.
Um, so I have two olderchildren, and when I said time
out, you sit there, okay.
But I have the last one.
Um, he's the little one, youknow.
And anyway, I felt really sad,like he was crying.
So I said, time out.
And you know what I did, uh,which I don't do anymore.
But I sat down with him duringthe time.
I know it's terrible.
(35:41):
Anyway, I sat down because hewouldn't do it.
He just cry, cry, cry, wouldn'tdo it.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (35:46):
See, you just said he refused.
Yeah, you did.
Tried to place a little simplepiece of discipline on him.
Nothing hurtful, nothing nasty.
Go sit in a chair.
Oh, for I'm sitting in thechair right now.
Okay, I don't feel bad at all.
So he wouldn't do it.
He looked at you like, no.
So what'd you do?
You said, Well, okay, I gottado gentle parenting.
(36:09):
I gotta do lighthouseparenting.
I'll go over and I'll sit withhim.
And then he'll come tounderstand why we're doing this.
And after I sit with him aboutfive times, he'll go over and
sit by himself.
And I want to go, you peoplewith those kind of theories,
have you ever had a real kid?
Because the average kid, afteryou sitting with him five times,
(36:31):
is now going to expect this isthe way it's done.
I'm not gone over here unlessyou sit with me.
And furthermore, they get to apoint where it's like, you know
what?
I'm not gone even if you do sitwith me.
Because I don't want to go.
The okay.
My dear, are you a Christianparent?
Sheila Nonato (36:53):
I am I'm striving to be.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (36:55):
Yeah.
Now, what is the theme ofGenesis about human nature?
Sheila Nonato (37:04):
Um well, we we can fall, but God redeems us.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (37:10):
Okay.
But the but the the state ofthe human is fallen, correct?
So mental parenting andlighthouse parenting assumes
that the kids are not going tobe willful.
They're not going to bestiff-necked.
All you have to do is gentlyguide, speak reasonably, reflect
(37:33):
the right eye messages, useactive listening, give choices,
set up win-win scenarios, andthe child will just naturally go
with the flow of parenthood.
And I'll tell you, my office isfilled with parents who come in
because they go, We tried that.
My kid is defiant.
(37:54):
And I go, Yeah, you know why?
Why?
Because he's a kid.
That's what they do.
We had 10 kids, you know that,Sheila.
And my 10 children are adopted.
And my 10 children, some ofthem had bad, very, very bad
histories.
Okay, crack prostitute,parents, abuse in the womb,
(38:18):
drugs in the womb, alcohol inthe womb, not pretty stuff.
Which, of course, would makethem harder to raise.
Okay, there would be someneurological issues going on.
Do you think that we called anyof our children the most common
adjective now leveled at kids,which is strong willed, mind of
(38:45):
her own, stubborn streak,defiant, six gone on sixteen,
high maintenance, challengingchild.
Do you think we use thosewords?
No, no.
You know why not?
Here's the reason why.
Very simple reason why not.
Certainly, I had some kidstougher to raise than others, of
(39:06):
course.
They all have differenttemperaments.
And I had some kids strongerwilled than siblings.
None of them was strongerwilled than their mother.
There's the difference.
When she said go to the cornerwhen they were three years old,
they better go to the corner.
(39:27):
Or they'll find out all theconsequences that are going to
happen to them.
And as a consequence, afterabout two months of that, they
never refused the corner again.
Or as other discipline kickedin, same thing.
Now, did they pull scrap?
Oh my gosh, yes.
Some of my kids would eat yourlittle guy for lunch, okay?
(39:47):
They pulled all kinds ofstunts.
The question becomes for mostparents you expect the stunts,
you expect the misbehavior.
That's kidhood.
Hey, that's adulthood.
I mean, I pull all kinds ofstunts on God.
I've been misbehaving all mylife to poor God.
You know, how come I haven'tlearned yet?
But the difference is when youdon't have authority, that's
(40:11):
when it gets ugly.
That's when you say, I wanted awhole bunch of kids and I
stopped at three because it wasjust so frustrating.
Yeah.
Because they fight you to brushtheir teeth, they fight you to
come in for supper, they fightyou to turn the TV off, they
fight you because they don'twant to turn the computer video
game off.
(40:32):
Everything becomes a battle.
And then you think this isn'tfun.
I don't like this.
Well, if you recognize twothings.
Kids are gonna do this stuff.
Fallen human nature,self-centered, stiff-necked.
Two, if you have authority, youcan you can stop it.
(40:53):
You can keep it from becomingan ugly, daily, fractious fight.
That's the that's thedifference.
That's the difference.
Sheila Nonato (41:06):
When you mention authority, I'm thinking about,
you know, there are these,again, you were talking about
theories, experts, um, how we'resupposed to be friends with our
kids.
And uh authority sounds soharsh and uh maybe even mean.
But I feel like parents havegiven up, you know, some parents
(41:28):
may not notice that they'vegiven up the authority and
handed it over to the cultureand to their friends, to their
peers.
Is this correct?
Is that what we're seeing now?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (41:37):
You're right on.
You're right on there, Sheila.
Here's a simple authority testI give to my clients.
They'll say to me, and I get alot of folks that are
faith-filled Christians,faith-filled Catholics, and
they'll say to me, one of theirstruggles is they're out of sync
with the culture.
Okay, the culture is much moremorally loose than they want to
raise their children.
So they say, we have highstandards.
(41:59):
I don't understand why we'restruggling with this discipline.
And and you know, we've gotfriends and people telling us
that the reason we're strugglingis because our standards are
too high, that that our kids aregoing to rebel against our high
standards, and we got to relaxour standards.
I mean, that's a common messagethrown to parents with high
standards.
I'll address that in a second.
(42:20):
I ask them this.
If you were to tell this childthat was mean, please go to the
corner.
Or that was disrespectful.
Go to bed, your night's over.
Or I can't believe you didthat.
(42:40):
Um you're grounded for threedays, and I'm gonna write a
nice, I want you to write a nice500-word essay on on why that
was so wrong, and then you'regonna have double chores, and
I'll I'll give you the chores.
I'll say, if you were to dothat, what would happen?
Now, when you don't haveauthority, nine times out of
ten, the parents are gonna say,a fight, refusal, argument, I'd
(43:08):
have to scream and yell andbecome a lunatic, threaten,
sneakiness, basic resistance.
I say, well then then no matterhow high your standards are,
you don't have authority.
Now they didn't do that onpurpose, it just slipped away
because they thought they couldreason with the child, they
could tell him you don't callyour sister that, and he'll
(43:30):
absorb it.
He'll just go after about thefifth time you say you don't
call your sister that, he'll go,maybe I shouldn't call my
sister that.
That's not a nice thing.
Now, he may realize it's not anice thing because he's a decent
kid, but when his sisterirritates him, that goes by the
wayside.
He's gonna call her that becauseshe just did something he
(43:53):
didn't like.
All right, so how do we stopthis?
I talked about high standardsbreeds rebellion.
I was in a meeting one time,and there was this counselor
type in there, Sheila, and shesaid, Well, we all know that if
a parent's standards are toohigh, the kids are gonna rebel.
(44:16):
Now, it was everything I coulddo to shut my mouth.
I wanted to say, no, we don'tall know that.
And that is a ridiculouscliche.
And I want to say, okay, whatare too high standards?
Well, I don't want you tomistreat your brother.
Oh, that's kind of a highstandard.
I tell you what, I'll tell youwhat.
(44:38):
You're allowed to cuss at himtwice during the week and one
kick.
Okay?
I mean, I don't want to have astandard too high.
I'd like you to make your bedevery day.
And until your bed's made, youdon't have any privileges.
That's a pretty high standard.
Okay.
Uh, you can leave it unmade onMondays and Wednesdays.
And Saturdays, if you sleep in,you can leave it unmade too.
(45:00):
I don't want to have a highstandard.
You see what I mean?
Every standard is up there.
No, we don't reach it.
Of course we don't reach it.
Nobody reaches it.
But you have to have thestandard.
Here's the other thing.
A parent will say to me, Canyou be too strict?
I'll say, Well, not really.
(45:21):
You can be too harsh.
You can be too mean.
But what is too strict in thecontext of love?
Sheila, I have no doubt thatlittle James of yours, you would
die for in two minutes.
You love that kid up one sideand down the other, and you
never realize what kids can doto your heart.
(45:41):
So you totally love him and yousacrifice yourself for him, and
you give him so many thingsevery day.
So it's not a matter of, gee, Ihave to show you how much I
appreciate you, son.
He sees it.
You hug him, you kiss him, youput food in front of him, you
take him places, you tickle him,you have fun with him, you
(46:02):
laugh with him, you do all kindsof stuff.
All right, that is good lovingparenthood.
He's not going to rebel becauseyou got discipline.
Because you say, James, you'regone to bed early.
Because today, when we were atgrandma's, do you remember what
you did?
Yeah, I know.
I grabbed it and I threw it onpurpose.
(46:22):
Yeah, son.
We get home, you're gone tobed.
That's not mean.
That's basically saying, James,you can't do that.
But see, we we don't do thatanymore, Sheila, because the
experts and all their theorieshave said, well, I think James
needs to understand.
(46:43):
Uh, maybe he can talk withgrandma, and then when you come
home, you can talk with him.
Yes, that's all well and good,but it doesn't take the place of
discipline.
After you do all that, is theregoing to be a consequence or
not?
Sheila Nonato (46:58):
And uh, I guess what you're saying, everything
from discipline to being, youknow, taking up your role as a
parent, as an authority in thelife of your children, it's all
rooted in love and also infaith.
And I am I'm truly inspired byyour story of adopting 10
children.
Can you give us a glimpse into,you know, how did that come to
(47:18):
be?
Um, it seems like such an actof love and self-sacrifice.
How did the option of adoption,the blessing of adoption, come
to your family?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (47:29):
I was getting killed by taxes.
So I figured I needed some taxdeductions.
And one of the things that theagencies don't tell you is if
you adopt in December, you stillget the tax deduction for the
whole year.
So they pretty much pay forthemselves that first year.
Long about kid number three,two things kicked in.
(47:51):
One, at that time, now my kidsare older now, they're all
adults.
But at that time, if you werewilling to adopt a cross-race,
black, biracial, and you're awhite person, I asked a lady one
time in an adoption agencysaid, if I want to adopt a
little black baby boy, how longwould I have to wait?
(48:11):
She said, What are you doingtomorrow?
So we realized if we adopt across-race, I got three white,
two Hispanic, two biracial,three black.
You can adopt tomorrow.
And that's what happened withus.
Okay, so it just kind of kepthappening.
But the second factor was mywife said this," Ray, if not us,
who?
(48:32):
We have a solid marriage.
We have the resources, we'vegot a good extended family." My
wife's a stay-at-home mom.
Um, and I she says, and I said,"and I'm a psychologist." She
goes, "Yeah, well, that'll hurtus, Ray, but we'll leave that
aside for right now." Okay.
So that's kind of how ithappened.
(48:54):
It was kind of like eatingpotato chips, you know.
You can always, you can alwaysthink you can eat one more until
you puke.
I think that's sort of whathappened.
And uh, I remember kid number11.
I was so moved, I saw a reallysad movie about a kid that that
just lived in very vilecircumstances, and I said, we
got to adopt again.
So I went home, did all thestuff he had to do.
(49:16):
I paid the fees, and I went toall the, I had to go to all the
parenting classes.
I did.
They were asking me questionsin this class, you know.
So at the end of all that, mywife says, Ray, let's go out to
eat.
Oh, okay.
See, this is code word for wegot to talk.
And we gotta talk is code wordfor let me tell you what's wrong
(49:36):
with you.
Okay, so that said, we went outto eat and she said, if you
want to adopt another child, I'mwilling.
But I have to tell you, I'mgetting pretty close to my load
limit.
And I, Sheila, being a verysensitive, nurturant, affirming
psychologist type, I realized atthat point I needed to say
(50:00):
something that would comforther.
So I said, Oh, you wimp.
I work for a living.
Actually, the truth be told, atthat point we had 10 under 12.
And I said, "Honey, you're theboss.
You're the one who's doing 98%of this.
Uh, I just write parentingbooks.
(50:20):
That's all I do.
You do the actual nitty-grittyof it." I said, "Y ou veto it,
it's over." And that's kind ofhow it ended.
And I had the chocolate drizzlecake to comfort myself.
Sheila Nonato (50:33):
I just, you know, to be honest, I was reading
your book, laughing, and thenthe talks.
Uh what is the role?
Like, I really it's soeffective the way you deliver
your message, and you know,sprinkling it with bits of
humorous stories.
Like, what is the role?
Because parenting can be hard,right?
Especially lack of sleep in theearly days.
Uh, and then the teens, youknow, the mood changes and all
(50:54):
the peer pressure and stuff likethat, all the other issues.
But parenting seems to be likepeople see it's a as a drudgery.
They don't want to be, theywant to be child-free now,
right?
But isn't there supposed to befun?
Like parenting should be fun,right?
There should be a little bit ofhumour.
You should have fun with yourkids.
Um, how did you how did you dothat with your own family?
And how can we do that now inthis age, this digital age, with
(51:16):
all the distractions, right?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (51:18):
Part of it is yeah, you don't
over-psychologize.
So many parents will come to meand they'll describe something
their kid did, and then they'rejust in agony over it.
And I'll say, "Okay, so hestole a matchbox car from the
drugstore and you found it.
What are you telling yourself?""Well, I can't believe he did
(51:38):
that because he knows how wefeel about stealing, and I'm
thinking my parenting isn'tgetting through to him, and I
don't know why he would do it."See, they're just and I'd say,
"Okay, your kid stole a matchboxtoy.
Okay, he brings it back, heapologizes, and then you put
some consequence on it.
A heavy one, but you put it onher, and then you move on with
life."See, we we overthink this, we
(52:00):
overanalyze it.
We got the parents, their headsare spinning.
That's what makes parenting inin many respects so much more
difficult.
And again, the culture's not onyour side anymore.
It's not.
So you have to be more vigilantand you have to be stronger,
and you can't get bullied byother people who tell you you're
a throwback Neanderthal, youfaith-filled weirdo trying to
(52:23):
raise your kid according to Godand Jesus' standards.
You you if you're bullied likethat.
Okay, I'll share with you asimple story.
About five years into ourmarriage, my wife and I decided
we didn't want any kids.
And the hard part of that,Sheila, was finding a time to
(52:45):
tell the kids that.
You don't get it.
Sheila Nonato (52:53):
I muted myself.
Um, well, you know, I have afriend who has 15 kids.
So yeah, and she's younger thanme.
So she Carissa Douglas, hername.
I was gonna give a shout-out toher.
She's uh an author on ScepterPress.
Um Little Douglings.
Anyway, she um she's alsosings, sounds like Jewel.
I don't know if anybodyremembers Jewel, but um, but
(53:14):
yeah, she is also an example tome that uh, you know, it's hard,
but with the grace of God andthe help of your husband, you
can do it.
Um, and I also just finallytalking about you were talking
about uh the influence of theculture, and now we have these
influencers.
I mean, we also have CharlieKirk, who gave us a positive
(53:36):
view of influencing because healways pointed to Jesus Christ.
How do we keep our children orshow our children that the real
influencers, God and theparents?
How do you how do we do that?
Any any practical tips for usand how to how to keep them in
the faith?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (53:55):
You're gonna, every day, faith is gonna infuse
your life.
You're gonna pray before meals,you're gonna pray at night,
you're gonna bless them, you'regonna pray a family rosary,
you're gonna have activities atchurch, you're gonna do these
things.
Those are all great.
And what you're doing is you'reestablishing an alternative way
to live as opposed to theculture.
Now, here is the sad reality,Sheila.
(54:18):
Never before in human historyhave so many people raised in
the faith abandoned it, leavingit, rejecting it, being hostile
toward it, coming up with allkinds of justifications why
their child rearing experiencewas horrible.
(54:39):
Okay, never before.
This has never happened.
In all of human history, themain influences were the tribe,
the family, and the clan.
That was it.
Your little tiny circle is whatinfluenced.
Not anymore.
Not anymore.
The technology, if you don'twatch, can just swamp your house
like a fog and take over andshape your kid.
All right.
So that's a reality.
(54:59):
You got to be vigilant.
You definitely have to be morevigilant.
You didn't have to be thisvigilant 100 years ago.
The culture, in many respects,thought more like you did.
Not now, not people who taketheir faith seriously.
Secondly, you can't be scared,you can't parent scared.
You can't say, if I make thatdecision, my kids are gonna hate
me, my kid is gonna run away,my kid is gonna be deceptive, my
(55:22):
kid is going to go by you startparenting like that and you
don't make any good judgments.
You don't parent by your kids'reaction, and you don't parent
by the culture's reaction.
You parent by good judgment.
Now, let's leave your viewerswith this.
One of the most common things Inow get as a psychologist is
(55:45):
parents who have raised theirchildren and watched their
children leave the faith.
That's such a common phenomenonnow.
It's not unusual for me to say,to hear from somebody, we had
five children and only two areleft in the faith.
I ran up against uh a goodfamily just recently.
They had nine kids betweenthem.
(56:05):
None left in the faith.
One kinda, kinda sorta.
A couple of them flirtingaround the edges.
So what's going on out there?
I mean, were these bad parents?
Did they just simply not impartthe faith?
Well, they did what they thoughtthey should do.
And sacraments and perhapsCatholic school, and they
thought that was enough.
(56:26):
Generally, it's not anymore.
But here's what I do tologically take away the guilt of
parents who think they failed.
What did I miss?
Maybe I should have prayed theRoserie in Aramaic while I knelt
on broken glass and levitated.
You know, what's wrong with mehere?
You do me, you do me thisexercise, Sheila.
(56:49):
You help me out on this.
I'm gonna ask you a series ofquestions, and I'm gonna prove
logically that anybodylistening, hearing, watching
your podcast, who feels guiltyabout the way their kids left
the faith, even though, asparents, they tried their very
best to raise them in the faith.
They were human, they madetheir mistakes, and maybe they
(57:12):
look back on it and say, I wouldhave done this, this, and this,
and this different.
Okay, we're all in that boat.
I'm gonna take their guildaway.
You ready?
Sheila Nonato (57:21):
Yes, yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:23):
Is there a God?
Sheila Nonato (57:24):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:25):
Is Christ God?
Sheila Nonato (57:27):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:27):
Was he sinless?
Sheila Nonato (57:29):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:30):
Could he perform miracles?
Sheila Nonato (57:32):
Absolutely.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:33):
Did he have a perfect understanding of human
nature?
Sheila Nonato (57:36):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:39):
Could he get most people to follow him?
No.
Oh, so I think that theseparents must think they're
better at this than the God man.
I tease him.
Can you do America?
Can you even do a crummy cardtrack?
(57:59):
Our Lord Himself couldn't getmost people to follow him.
He was God.
So we think there's some kindof spiritual formula that we
just didn't apply right.
No.
No, you do your best to raisethem as God said, and you
recognize that's a scary worldout there.
And one good thing, I alwaystell this to parents you laid
(58:22):
down an alternative.
You expose them to analternative.
So as they move into their 20sand their 30s and they realize
they don't want youralternative, and they find out
that their alternative and theculture's alternative isn't
working so well.
Maybe they'll look back.
And I think this is oneexplanation why you're seeing
(58:44):
more and more young people turntoward the faith.
Sheila Nonato (58:50):
Well, I'm truly inspired by your story, uh, Dr.
Guarendi, and for coming on andhelping us mothers and parents
to uh navigate this kind ofdifficult, new, um, and
exciting, I guess, world of thedigital age that, you know, for
for the forces of good, we canevangelize through technology.
(59:11):
But unfortunately, there arealso the sort of negative
aspects of it that you are havebeen helping us navigate through
today.
And I encourage um ourlisteners, our viewers to um go
to your website, drray.com.
I'll put it in the show notes.
Raising upright kids in anupside down world, amazing.
So many books that you canchoose from and learn from.
(59:32):
And I am my son's gonna saygoodbye.
Say goodbye to Dr.
Ray.
Thank you so much.
God bless, God bless yourfamily.
Thank you so much.
Bye.
Thank you very much, Sister St.
Christ, for joining us thisweek.
And if you're looking forsomething to read, Dr.
Ray, a spiritual reading, Dr.
(59:52):
Ray has a new book called Drama-Free Discipline.
I'm actually looking forward toreading that as well.
And um, for our next Episode, Iam also very honoured to be
telling the story of CamilleMendoza.
Camille, who helped to designthe logo for Veil and Armour.
My sister-in-law TamaraFernandez Nonato, a gifted
artist as well, very gifted, whogenerously created this logo,
(01:00:19):
the outline of the logo.
And Camille finished it for us.
And I am very, very honouredthat both of them have
contributed to this beautifullogo of Our Lady, who is in the
in the picture, she is in thepainting, she is um pregnant
with our Lord, which is veryfitting this Advent season.
And so I um I urge you to staytuned for Camille's episode on
(01:00:45):
how grief, grieving with ourLord, helped her to be able to
see the cross in the way thatOur Lady saw the Cross through a
mother's eyes, and how Jesushelped her to heal from the
tremendous loss of her sweetchild, who is now a precious
(01:01:07):
saint in heaven, Lilo.
Take care, friends, and Godbless you and your families.
Discipline without love may be harsh.
Love without discipline ischild abuse.
And the reason for that is, anda lot of your a lot of your
listeners and viewers, Sheila,have very high standards.
Their standards are higher thanthe cultures.
Here's where they struggle.
Sheila Nonato (00:26):
Hello and welcome to the Veil + Armour Podcast.
This is your host, SheilaNonato.
I'm a stay-at-home mom and afreelance Catholic journalist.
Seeking the guidance of theHoly Spirit and the inspiration
of Our Lady, I strive to tellstories that inspire,
illuminate, and enrich the livesof Catholic women to help them
in living out our vocation ofraising the next generation of
(00:48):
leaders and saints.
Co-Host (00:50):
Please join us every week on the Veil in Armour
Podcast, where stories comealive through a journalist's
land and mother's heart.
Welcome to this week's EpisodeSisters in Christ.
Sheila Nonato (01:00):
For this week's topic, we will look at how do we
parent in the digital age?
Do the traditional parentingmethods, the idea of discipline,
do we throw that out the windowfor these new theories of
parenting?
Let's talk to top Catholicexpert on marriage and
parenting, clinicalpsychologist, and father of 10
(01:21):
adopted children, Dr.
Ray Guarandi, the one and onlyfrom EWTN.
Thank you very much for joiningus, and let's hear some
practical tips and encouragementfor Christian mothers and
Christian parents.
Welcome to the Veil and ArmourPodcast, and we are humbled and
honored to have Dr.
Ray Guarandi on our family'spodcast apostolate.
(01:42):
It's quite fitting that he is amilitary father whose children
have served in Afghanistan,Iraq, Africa, and Korea.
Since our podcast is Veil andArmour, Dr.
Grandi is a Catholic husband,father to 10 adopted children,
clinical psychologist, author ofover 20 books, professional
speaker, international radio andTV host.
(02:05):
And for over 40 years, Dr.
Ray's in-depth experience hasled to helping thousands
eliminate parenting frustrationsand build stronger marriages by
showing them proven parentingtechniques and following their
God-given instincts to raisetheir kids for heaven.
His radio show that "DoctorIs In" can be heard on EWTN,
(02:27):
Global Catholic Radio Network,Cirrus XM, iHeartRadio, and over
500 domestic and internationalAM and FM radio affiliates.
His TV show, "Living Right withDr.
Ray," can be seen on EWTN, andyou can find his books on his
website, drray.com.
Wow, Dr.
(02:48):
Ray, I am so humbled andhonoured again that you're here
with us.
We have so much to learn fromyou.
Can you please start us offwith a prayer?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (02:57):
Sure.
In the name of the Father, ofthe Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Amen.
Dear Lord, please give us thegood words to say.
Thank you so much that we arealive.
We know what we know.
You've allowed us to know whatwe know.
Please give us words that willhelp others to know you better
(03:19):
and to see your truths.
In your name we pray to theFather.
Amen.
In the Namee of the Father,the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Amen.
Sheila Nonato (03:29):
Thank you very much for that.
And so it's been quite a fewweeks in the news cycle.
We've had the tragic, horrificshooting of the Catholic
children at Annunciation Churchnot too long ago.
Um, the murder of the twochildren, Fletcher and Harper,
who are Heaven's newest saints,um, along with St.
(03:50):
Carlo Acutis, of course, andthe high-profile murder of
conservative podcaster CharlieKirk.
Now, how do we how do you to behonest, Dr.
Ray, I'm also strugglingmyself.
I was to be honest, I was justuh turned on my computer and
without any warning, it was onX, the video, the assassination
(04:11):
video.
No filter, no warning.
And to be, I'm sorry, I mightcry because I'm still struggling
to process what I saw.
Like I have been in the MiddleEast, I've reported on
terrorism, um, you know, crime,but I haven't seen an actual
person get killed.
You know, I've talked tosurvivors, but this really shook
(04:32):
me.
And I wasn't sure how toexplain it to my children.
How how would you suggest whatwould you suggest for us?
How do we explain it,especially for children who
might have seen it?
Because we, you know, Gen Alphais the, I guess, the the
children who have grown up inthe digital age.
And how do we explain it tothem and how do we help them if
they are struggling?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (04:52):
Depends on the age, Sheila.
Now, your little guy that I sawthere, right, the beginning of
this podcast, there's no reasonfor him to see or even know
about this.
To the degree you can shelterhim from it.
Don't have the TV on when he'saround.
Don't let him look over yourshoulder to whatever you're
scrolling through.
(05:12):
That's the first thing.
Now, if you got kids going to aschool where they're going to
hear this stuff and they'regoing to raise questions, then
you're going to have to addressit.
Simple way to do it.
Honey, God tells us how tolive.
He knows the best way for us tolive.
(05:32):
Some people ignore God, they dowhat they want.
Either because they think Goddoesn't exist or because they
don't like what He says.
And God allows that.
But for right now, there arepeople who do wrong things,
(05:58):
very, very wrong things.
Sheila, some parents questionthat if a child is exposed to
this, let's say you got a 10- or11-year-old who's exposed to
this, that somehow it's going torock their faith, somehow it's
going to shake them uppsychologically.
You can dramatically minimizethat if you if you acknowledge
(06:23):
that it happens, and youacknowledge in God's overall
scheme of things that He willsort it out.
Parents will say to me, Well,my son saw that.
He saw that on a scroll.
He saw it.
And you say, honey, that's whylife is so valuable.
(06:45):
Because the taking of a life isvery ugly.
It's not like anything somebodywould see on the movies.
It's not like anything somebodywould see in a video game.
The real thing is very, veryugly.
And that's why God says somuch, don't do it.
Keep your examples, yourexplanation short and to the
(07:06):
point.
You don't have to get intougly, nitty-gritty details.
You know, you got a little kid,it's eight, nine, ten, eleven.
Enough is enough.
You explain it to them and youtell them this is why it is so
important to do it God's way.
Sheila Nonato (07:24):
And uh so for the older children, uh, let's say
teens, um, if they're having ahard time processing, like would
you suggest they write it down?
They talk to the priest.
Um, you know, if let's say theparent is also struggling to
comprehend, how do you actuallyexplain evil, right?
So if you're struggling tocomprehend and the teen is also
struggling, going throughdifferent emotions, um what,
(07:48):
yeah, do do they, is it okay towrite it out?
Um, and then yeah, go tospiritual direction.
Um, what do you suggest?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (07:56):
Much of the time that's not necessary.
I would suggest this.
When you use the wordstruggling to process it, what
you're really saying, Sheila, isthat they got a whole bunch of
ideas and questions in theirhead that they don't have
answers for, that don't make anysense to them.
Why would such a good man in somany people's eyes be at age 31
(08:21):
snuffed out?
Well, you ask them, what do youthink about this?
What do you think it means?
Does that affect how you seeGod?
Does that affect how you seeother people?
Do you have a question aboutthis on why God would seemingly
stand by and allow it to happen?
(08:42):
I want to know what's insideyour head.
That's the way you got to doit.
Kind of like a kind of like alay psychologist.
Somebody comes into my office,I gotta find out why they think
the way they think.
Even if I think it'sridiculous, even if I think
they're all twisted up in theirthinking, I've at least got to
ask enough questions and exploreit enough to know, okay, this
is what's disturbing them.
(09:04):
This is what they don't have ananswer for, this is how they're
interpreting this that doesn'tfit with reality.
And that's what you do with theolder kids.
You say, okay, I want to knowhow you see this.
How do you understand it?
What doubts does it raise foryou about anything?
About God?
(09:24):
About people, about violence?
I want to know.
Only, Sheila, when you knowwhat's going on percolating
inside their head, can youactually address it in some way?
Sheila Nonato (09:40):
Okay.
Uh well, thank you for that.
And I was listening to yourradio show.
You had to address this issue,and you were talking about how
your daughter had postedsomething on Facebook, and
somebody she didn't know, atotal stranger, didn't agree
with her, um, just posting thething, and actually told her
such um, I can't even believesomebody would say this to a
person they don't know, but saidyour daughter is pregnant, and
(10:02):
she said she hoped her babywould die because she had a
positive uh post about CharlieKirk.
How did we get to thissituation?
Like we're supposed to advanceas a society uh with all of our
technological advancements,right?
We should be like superintelligent.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (10:21):
Progressive ideas say.
I don't call them progressive,I call them regressive because
they're throwing off wisdom ofthe millennia, they're throwing
off the wisdom of God.
There's a complex brew ineffect right now.
A couple of major themes.
One, as a society decides thatGod is irrelevant, that his way
(10:44):
of doing things, his way ofwanting us to live our lives, is
is really an impingement.
It doesn't belong here.
He's unsophisticated, even ifhe exists.
So the more that takes hold ofa society, as G.K.
Chesterton said, when peoplestop believing in God, it's not
that they believe in nothing,they believe in anything.
(11:08):
The second thing is somethinghas got to fill that hole.
What is going to decide howsociety thinks morally?
Well, in our case, this is nolonger a farm in 1880.
This is no longer a village in1115 in Africa.
This is a society that sayswe've got all kinds of
(11:31):
technology that will swamp yourbrain and will tell you how to
think and give you informationthat may or may not be true.
But one thing is certain, wegot a whole lot of people
telling you this is a better wayto think and to believe and to
act than what we used to thinkeven 60 years ago, 80 years ago.
(11:55):
Y ou never had school shootings80 years ago.
They were unheard of.
It was impossible.
When I used to go pick up myfriends at the airport, I walked
all the way to the gate.
I just stood at the gate andwaited for them to come in.
My mom and dad told me how theynever ever locked their doors.
They left their keys in theircars.
They never had their carsstolen or carjacked.
(12:17):
So as society leaves God'sways, the stuff that fills in
can be very evil.
And there are vulnerable peoplewho absorb that.
It's very common.
It doesn't surprise me as apsychologist at all.
I was not shocked by what thatwoman said to my daughter.
(12:38):
It was hideous, but it didn'tshock me because I've come to
sort of expect that this is whatyou get when you say God
doesn't matter.
His ways are for a pastime whenpeople were unsophisticated,
and we now know how to livebetter morally, sexually, and
every other way.
This is what's happening.
Sheila Nonato (13:01):
And I guess I wanted to um bring up also your
book, "Raising Upright Kids inan Upside-down World," which is
what we're talking about rightnow, and specifically your
chapter on phone smart.
So smartphones are supposed tomake us smarter, but is it
really?
So um, you have some tips, andactually, my children don't.
(13:21):
I'm not trying to be uh on amoral high ground here.
My children don't have cellphones just because we stop
right there, Sheila.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (13:28):
Yeah, you just illustrated, you illustrated a
classic example of what goodparents are doing to second
guess themselves.
First of all, you did a wisething.
You said, "I'm not going togive my kids a smartphone at the
age that the culture is givingit, okay?" You apologized.
(13:50):
You said, "I'm not trying to bethe moral high ground." Wait a
minute.
This has nothing to do withmoral high ground.
You made a decision that isyours to make as a mother and is
yours to make as a faith-filledChristian, even though the
culture doesn't understand itand they outvote you 95 to 5.
Irrelevant.
(14:10):
You've decided this is not agood thing for my kids and their
soul, especially at a youngerage.
But yet you kind of said, What?
And I had one mom say this tome, Sheila.
She said, "Well, if it were upto me," and I said, "Stop right
there.
Who's it up to?" Oh, I know,but but she's 13.
(14:34):
Every one of her friends hasone.
All of them have one.
That's how they communicate,that's how they're social.
I go, would you think it's agood thing?
No.
Okay.
Your daughter's not growing upin a vacuum.
She's not going to have friendsbecause she doesn't have this
thing attached to her in thepalm of her hand that can put
(14:55):
her in touch with the wholeworld, good, bad, ugly,
indifferent, and vile.
But see parents of faithapologize.
See how easily it it it shapeseven us?
Sheila Nonato (15:12):
Well, I'm uh to be honest, I'm feeling pressure
to to do it because everyonearound me has it.
And how do you how do theycommunicate?
Um, how do they have friends?
Uh, you know, how do they yeah,sorry?
Let's do a little simple test.
Sure.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (15:29):
When I ask parents, what's the number one
reason you gave your child asmartphone that basically has
contact with the whole universe?
What do you think they say?
Sheila Nonato (15:40):
Safety.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (15:41):
Yes, absolutely.
I gotta know where she is andwhat she's doing.
There are several answers tothat, and I talk about it in the
book.
The first answer is if she'swith any group of kids, every
single one of them has asmartphone.
So there's no problem withhaving a smartphone.
Everybody around her has asmartphone.
Okay, that's one.
Two, say, you're right, honey.
(16:01):
You're right.
Safety issue.
I want you to be able to get ahold of me.
Here's a flip phone.
Oh, oh, get that thing away fromme.
Oh, no, I'm not gonna use that,mom.
That's so lame.
No, and everybody's gonna lookat me like I'm some kind of
weirdo.
You see what I mean?
It's not a safety issue.
It's a I want the latest andthe greatest.
There's the difference.
(16:23):
That's the test.
Just offer him a smartphone.
Or offer them a phone that onlyhas three numbers: you, the
police, and pizza.
See if they go, oh, great.
Thank you so much, Mom.
This is wonderful.
They'll refuse it.
Every time they'll refuse it.
Because that's really not theissue.
The issue is I want this.
(16:44):
You know, the irony here,Sheila.
10, 12 years ago, I wasscreaming from the top of the
mountain, don't do this.
It's too early.
It's too early.
What's what do you think theaverage age of a kid getting a
smartphone now is?
Sheila Nonato (16:59):
I was just reading your book, so I think
four.
I don't know, four and up.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (17:03):
They're on devices and four.
Sheila Nonato (17:05):
Okay.
Maybe nine?
I don't know.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (17:07):
And ten.
Yeah.
Between nine and now, if yourkid's 13 and doesn't have one,
oh, oh my gosh.
You're you're in the bottom 5%,maybe 2%.
Okay.
So back then I said, this isgonna radically change how your
kids look at life, how theythink, how they look at
relationships, what they thinkmorals are, where they go,
(17:31):
radically so.
And I felt like, okay, this issome guy's opinion.
All right, big deal.
He's got some letters after hisname.
Now the research is coming outin waves, Sheila.
In waves, that we have allowedthis technology to misshape our
children.
One of the sadder things in myoffice, a parent will be sitting
(17:55):
with a teenager and say, Idon't know who that is.
We didn't raise him that way.
And I'll say, I believe you, Ibelieve you didn't, but I think
you underestimated what did.
Because all too often, if yougo with the flow of the culture,
(18:15):
now I'm not saying you have tobe Amish or quasi-amish, okay?
Don't mishear me.
But what I'm saying is don'tlet the culture dictate when
you're going to say, okay, thepressure's getting too intense.
All right, I'll relent.
Here's another thing I'venoticed, and I think I addressed
this in the book.
I don't remember, She.
(18:36):
I used to say back in the olddays when I wrote my first book
that parents are parentingwanting to be psychologically
correct.
And you hear that all the time.
Well, what should I have said?
Is that what I should havedone?
Is this the best thing to do inthis situation?
How would you handle this, Dr.
(18:56):
Ray?
So there's this question of amI being psychologically correct
in raising my kids?
What I've noticed now, Sheila,with the onslaught of
technology, parents areparenting also in fear.
"If I don't give her asmartphone, is she gonna get
(19:17):
deceptive?
Is she gonna resent me?
Is she gonna hate me?
Is she gonna hate me?
Is she gonna go to her friendsand I live tell them I live with
a psycho parent who's a weirdoreligious freak who doesn't let
me have a normal life?
Even her mother doesn't agreewith her.
My grandma doesn't agree withher.
(19:38):
My grandma thinks she'sstunting my social development."
So now the parents are like, Idon't want to mess up.
I don't want my kid to hate me.
And I always give them thisoption.
Say, okay, let's say that yourkid doesn't understand your
reasoning, your kid disagreeswith your reasoning, and your
kid is even going to do anythingshe can.
(20:00):
And I use she a lot becausesmartphones affect girls more
than boys.
I said, she's gonna do anythingshe can to get around you.
Her friends will give her aphone.
One of my daughters, we tookfive phones away from her
because she was 16 and she wasmishandling it.
And so when we took it, herfriends would give her another
one.
Then we'd have to catch thatone.
(20:20):
And we took it, friends wouldgive her another one.
So which is worse?
Your child resisting whatyou're doing with this
smartphone decision, or how thesmartphone will shape who she
is, which is worse.
I've also said this to parentSheila.
(20:42):
If my kids go astray, I want tobe able to say it's because
they had to go through me thanbecause I stepped aside.
Sheila Nonato (20:58):
Um yeah, those are powerful words, powerful
advice.
And um, just to go back to yourbook, um, you s you wrote, and
a privilege, so a phone is not abirthright, it is a privilege,
and a privilege must be earned.
Uh so in terms of, you know,how do you how does a kid earn a
cell phone?
There was, I I was joking to myhusband, the only time they're
(21:18):
gonna get a cell phone is ifthey're a CEO of their own
company.
Because what do you need itfor, right?
Um didn't yeah.
So, but yeah, is there an age,an appropriate?
Is there like scientificstudies that say this is the
right age to give a phone?
Can you help us uh decide this?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (21:36):
There's plenty of scientific studies that say
this is the wrong age to give aphone, that's for sure.
Okay.
I would say this (21:41):
the question is not age, the question is
trustworthiness.
You see how your child conductshim or herself across a whole
range of situations.
You know what they're like, youknow how they think, you know
how they view things, you knowhow morally they are solid.
(22:03):
You know these things.
You're the best judge of thatof anybody, more than any shrink
because you live with thatchild.
That's how you gaugetrustworthiness.
Now, when you decide, okay,we're going to go with the
phone.
One, it's a trial.
It's not, it's not totallydeterminate.
(22:26):
It is a trial.
Two, put all kinds of safetymechanisms on that phone.
I saw a recent survey that saidover 50% of parents have
absolutely no safety conditionson that phone.
You can pair that phone to yourphone so that anything that
(22:49):
goes out or in to your child'sphone, you know.
You see it on your phone.
You could do that.
It's easily done.
You can give a phone that hasaccess to no apps.
You can do that.
There's all kinds of things youcan do.
So at age 15, she's holding asmartphone in her hand, but her
friends don't have to know thatshe can't access all the stuff
(23:11):
she wants to access.
Do that.
Now, here's the question (23:13):
What do you do if the phone is
misused?
If, in fact, there are texts,there are language used uh in
the extreme, there's uhsexuality stuff all over it, and
I can't tell you how manyparents get burned with that
one, okay, because they think,well, my kids were all growing
(23:35):
up on a faith-field Catholicfamily, and she's not gonna do
that kind of stuff.
Oh yeah?
Come on.
It's not that she's a bad kid,it's just the temptation is
right here in her face.
Okay, so given that, the parentsays, Well, how long should I
take it?
And I say, that's not thequestion.
That's not the question.
There's no manual that says,Well, if they do this two weeks,
(23:56):
if they do this four weeks, ifthey do No.
The question is, should shehave had it to begin with?
You made an error in judgment.
You thought I I thought shecould handle it.
I thought this was somethingshe would have with her
responsibly.
I find out different.
She cheated on a test with it.
(24:16):
She had it in her room at nightuntil two in the morning.
She's been texting some guythat is bad news, but now she
thinks she's in love with himbecause they've been texting
back and forth for two months.
Do you know what percentage ofboys ages 11 to 19, Sheila, have
come across pornography?
Sheila Nonato (24:38):
50?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:40):
90.
Sheila Nonato (24:41):
90.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:42):
90.
Sheila Nonato (24:43):
Oh, wow.
So like inside the home oroutside the home?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:47):
Either on their device or the computer.
Oh, wow.
Sheila Nonato (24:50):
Okay.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (24:51):
So so given that, oh, maybe at a friend's
house, okay.
So so given that, the questionbecomes, what kind of what kind
of conditions am I gonna put onthis thing?
And these are conditions,Sheila, that the culture is not
putting on them.
So you're gonna feel isolated.
You're gonna feel like aweirdo.
(25:11):
All right, you already feellike a weirdo.
You homeschool, you're alreadya weirdo, okay?
So you're gonna be a weirdo, bea weirdo all the
way. (Friends, Dr. Ray has got jokes lol)But here's what you have in your
favor.
There is research, there aresurveys and follow-up studies
that say parents who raise theirkids in a faith-filled home
(25:35):
have a much higher chance ofthose kids being stable,
responsible, moral adults.
Even if there's bouncing alongthe way.
So that's the one thing youlook for.
Sheila Nonato (25:53):
Um, and so I guess it sort of lends itself to
you touched upon, you know, cancontrols on the phone, um, when
you you should give it, if youwant to, if you're going down
that route.
Um discipline.
So I forgive me if I if Ibutcher your quote.
I think you said lack ofdiscipline is like child abuse.
(26:13):
Now, what what do you meanexactly?
Can you explain to us?
For those who haven't heardyour amazing talks.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (26:18):
Here's the full core.
Here's the full quote.
"Discipline without love may beharsh.
Love without discipline ischild abuse." And the reason for
that is because the world isgoing to hurt that child.
If your standards are loose andfuzzy and not enforced, and a
(26:40):
lot of your a lot of yourlisteners and viewers, Sheila,
have very high standards.
Their standards are higher thanthe cultures.
Here's where they struggle inenforcing those standards.
If they have a standard thatyou you are not to be
disrespectful, that's astandard, absolutely.
There's no disrespect in thishome.
But in fact, they're looseabout enforcing that standard.
(27:03):
You know, your daughter has just
snotted off to you.
What'd you do about it?
Well, I told her we don't talkthat way.
I got that.
What'd you do about it?
Well, she knows.
She knows we don't allowdisrespect.
Yes.
What'd you do about it?
Well, I gave her a warning.
What'd you do about it?
You see what I'm saying?
They're not enforcing it.
So given that, you don'tdiscipline now, the world will
(27:26):
later.
The world will hurt your kid.
Judge, landlord, army sergeant,police officer, employer, a
wife.
Ooh, that's a rough one.
Given that, I don't want theworld to discipline my kids.
I want to do it because I lovethem.
And I hug them and kiss themafterwards, and I talk about it
with them afterwards.
The world's not going to dothat.
(27:46):
Some employer's not going tosay, well, you know, you've been
late three days in a row, andapparently you must be tired.
So I'll tell you what you do.
If you're going to be late,just call me.
So this, you know, this way Ican find somebody else until
you're ready to come in, andthat would be good, or I'll
cover for you.
That's not going to happen.
There's going to be aconsequence after a while.
(28:06):
You're fired.
Get out of here.
Well, that's world discipline.
That's certainly a lot harsherthan sitting in a chair because
you kicked over your brother'sblocks.
Sheila Nonato (28:19):
So by discipline, you mean if you say something,
you can't have this until youfinish your chores.
And if they don't, they don'tdo it, there must be a
consequence.
Is that what you're saying?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (28:31):
The number discipline problem I deal with,
Sheila, and this became veryapparent early in my career.
When you read stuff aboutdiscipline, and I've always
maintained this, the averageexpert is really uneasy with
discipline.
They don't like it.
They think a child can bereasoned with, they think a
(28:53):
child will understand.
If you get down on their leveland you explain it, the child's
gonna go, oh, father, I've beenso blind.
Of course, you make suchperfect sense.
Why didn't you just explain itto me that way?
Love ya.
They're kids, they don'tunderstand three-quarters of
this stuff.
So what I say to parents is,okay, if you have just an
(29:16):
operating simple little houserule, you can't mistreat a
sibling.
You can't.
You can't call her names, youcan't torment her, you can't
look at her like you're anidiot.
You know, you can't do that.
You're not allowed to mistreata sibling.
That's a rule.
All right.
So now you say, well, here'swhat we're gonna do about this.
(29:36):
When you do this, let's say thekid's 11, you're gonna sit
down, you're gonna write 20 nicethings about your sister.
Make them up.
I do with your father.
And the kid looks at you like,I'm not doing that.
I'm not doing that.
That's ridiculous.
(29:56):
Not doing it.
Okay, now we're.
What do you do as a parent?
Do you yell and scream?
Do you argue?
Do you threaten?
Sheila Nonato (30:05):
What do you do?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (30:07):
Here's a technique I developed many,
many, many, many years ago whena woman came into my office.
She had a 14-year-old son.
And this kid, she had allowedhim to get away with a lot for a
long time.
And he was now to the pointwhere if she tried to discipline
him, he was going to fight her.
He was going to resist it.
He was going to argue.
He was going to threaten.
He was just going to flat outrefuse.
(30:29):
So I said, Well, okay, youdecide what you think is a good
consequence for that particulartype of misbehavior.
When he doesn't do it,immediately, immediately, he is
shut down.
Every single privilege that hehas at your hands, whatever it
(30:51):
is outside, friends, perks,privileges, favorite hoodie,
dessert, everything.
And parents don't realize howmuch they control.
Shuts down until you get yourconsequence.
And she said, Wow.
She goes, you know what thatsounds like?
I go, what's that?
She said, that that sounds likea blackout.
(31:12):
I said, oh, what a great name.
And that's what I suggest toparents.
If that little five-year-old,well, your little guy there,
Sheila, how how old was he rightbefore the podcast here?
He's he's five.
Five, okay.
So he does something.
What's his name, honey?
James.
James.
I got a James.
Sheila Nonato (31:31):
James Michael Raymond, actually.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (31:33):
Oh, why'd you pay?
Put my name third.
Should have been at leastmaybe.
Sorry.
Okay.
So James does something.
Whatever it is, some littlescrap kid thing.
And you say, okay, James, go tothe corner, please.
And he looks at you like, whoare you talking to?
(31:54):
You talking to me?
I don't think so.
I see your mouth moving, but Idon't hear no words coming out.
So what are you gonna do,Sheila?
Are you gonna go?
I said, go to the corner.
And he looks at you.
He goes to the corner, butafter 32 seconds, he comes out.
James, get back in that corner.
(32:16):
So see, that's the kind ofstuff that makes parents go to
confession every two hours.
You know?
Bless me, father.
Um, before I had children, Iwas pretty nice.
Now I don't think I'm pretty ornice.
So what happens is you getangry, you get frustrated, you
(32:36):
argue, you threaten.
James leaves the corner, youdon't say a word.
As a matter of fact, when youtold him to go to the corner and
he refused, you don't say aword.
Every single thing that he asksfor or he has, after that, you
look at him with a puzzled lookon your face as if to say, Oh
(33:00):
no, James, you you don't getyour stuffed animal, those are
gone.
I uh haven't got my corner yet.
Oh no, James, we're gonna drivethrough McDonald's and I'm
gonna get a Sunday, you're gonnawatch.
I haven't gotten my corner yet.
Oh no, James, you can't gooutside.
I haven't gotten my corner yet.
I'll tell you what, Sheila, forthe little kids, say the kids
(33:23):
under ten.
If that doesn't work in a day ortwo, so that all you have to
say is, James, go to the corner,please.
Go to the corner, please.
Five words.
That's it.
Works every time.
Parents will say to me, Well,um, yeah, but what what kind of
(33:49):
consequence should I use?
I go, that's up to you.
Use what you want.
You know, if you got a10-year-old kid, they make him
write sentences.
You got a 12-year-old, make himwrite an essay of apology.
That's the one the kids refuse,by the way.
That is the one that if youhave a teenager and you come up
with this essay of apology,300-word handwritten essay of
(34:10):
apology, they look at you like,who you've been listening to?
You can't think of this on yourown.
You talk to that Roy Ginoldidude or whatever, Dr.
Evil, whatever that guy's nameis.
Shut him down.
Shut him down.
It works really well.
You're not being mean.
(34:31):
You're not you're not smashinga gnat with a sledgehammer.
It is mean to fight with a kid.
That's what's mean.
The consequence isn't mean.
I just asked you to write anessay of apology to your sister
for calling her that name.
That's not mean.
That says, look, you can't dothis, and I know I can't reason
you into not doing it, so I'mgonna put some consequences on
(34:53):
it.
Okay, that's how the worldoperates.
Sheila Nonato (34:58):
Well, Dr.
Ray, I have to confess it isnot a confession.
But a few, maybe last year.
Uh, so there's this whole thingwith lighthouse parenting,
supposedly, combining nurturing,loving, protecting,
communicating.
Um, be a guide to your childrenand swoop in when you need to,
but let them grow.
But I kind of fell to thisexpert mentality last maybe a
(35:20):
few months ago.
Um, so I have two olderchildren, and when I said time
out, you sit there, okay.
But I have the last one.
Um, he's the little one, youknow.
And anyway, I felt really sad,like he was crying.
So I said, time out.
And you know what I did, uh,which I don't do anymore.
But I sat down with him duringthe time.
I know it's terrible.
(35:41):
Anyway, I sat down because hewouldn't do it.
He just cry, cry, cry, wouldn'tdo it.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (35:46):
See, you just said he refused.
Yeah, you did.
Tried to place a little simplepiece of discipline on him.
Nothing hurtful, nothing nasty.
Go sit in a chair.
Oh, for I'm sitting in thechair right now.
Okay, I don't feel bad at all.
So he wouldn't do it.
He looked at you like, no.
So what'd you do?
You said, Well, okay, I gottado gentle parenting.
(36:09):
I gotta do lighthouseparenting.
I'll go over and I'll sit withhim.
And then he'll come tounderstand why we're doing this.
And after I sit with him aboutfive times, he'll go over and
sit by himself.
And I want to go, you peoplewith those kind of theories,
have you ever had a real kid?
Because the average kid, afteryou sitting with him five times,
(36:31):
is now going to expect this isthe way it's done.
I'm not gone over here unlessyou sit with me.
And furthermore, they get to apoint where it's like, you know
what?
I'm not gone even if you do sitwith me.
Because I don't want to go.
The okay.
My dear, are you a Christianparent?
Sheila Nonato (36:53):
I am I'm striving to be.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (36:55):
Yeah.
Now, what is the theme ofGenesis about human nature?
Sheila Nonato (37:04):
Um well, we we can fall, but God redeems us.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (37:10):
Okay.
But the but the the state ofthe human is fallen, correct?
So mental parenting andlighthouse parenting assumes
that the kids are not going tobe willful.
They're not going to bestiff-necked.
All you have to do is gentlyguide, speak reasonably, reflect
(37:33):
the right eye messages, useactive listening, give choices,
set up win-win scenarios, andthe child will just naturally go
with the flow of parenthood.
And I'll tell you, my office isfilled with parents who come in
because they go, We tried that.
My kid is defiant.
(37:54):
And I go, Yeah, you know why?
Why?
Because he's a kid.
That's what they do.
We had 10 kids, you know that,Sheila.
And my 10 children are adopted.
And my 10 children, some ofthem had bad, very, very bad
histories.
Okay, crack prostitute,parents, abuse in the womb,
(38:18):
drugs in the womb, alcohol inthe womb, not pretty stuff.
Which, of course, would makethem harder to raise.
Okay, there would be someneurological issues going on.
Do you think that we called anyof our children the most common
adjective now leveled at kids,which is strong willed, mind of
(38:45):
her own, stubborn streak,defiant, six gone on sixteen,
high maintenance, challengingchild.
Do you think we use thosewords?
No, no.
You know why not?
Here's the reason why.
Very simple reason why not.
Certainly, I had some kidstougher to raise than others, of
(39:06):
course.
They all have differenttemperaments.
And I had some kids strongerwilled than siblings.
None of them was strongerwilled than their mother.
There's the difference.
When she said go to the cornerwhen they were three years old,
they better go to the corner.
(39:27):
Or they'll find out all theconsequences that are going to
happen to them.
And as a consequence, afterabout two months of that, they
never refused the corner again.
Or as other discipline kickedin, same thing.
Now, did they pull scrap?
Oh my gosh, yes.
Some of my kids would eat yourlittle guy for lunch, okay?
(39:47):
They pulled all kinds ofstunts.
The question becomes for mostparents you expect the stunts,
you expect the misbehavior.
That's kidhood.
Hey, that's adulthood.
I mean, I pull all kinds ofstunts on God.
I've been misbehaving all mylife to poor God.
You know, how come I haven'tlearned yet?
But the difference is when youdon't have authority, that's
(40:11):
when it gets ugly.
That's when you say, I wanted awhole bunch of kids and I
stopped at three because it wasjust so frustrating.
Yeah.
Because they fight you to brushtheir teeth, they fight you to
come in for supper, they fightyou to turn the TV off, they
fight you because they don'twant to turn the computer video
game off.
(40:32):
Everything becomes a battle.
And then you think this isn'tfun.
I don't like this.
Well, if you recognize twothings.
Kids are gonna do this stuff.
Fallen human nature,self-centered, stiff-necked.
Two, if you have authority, youcan you can stop it.
(40:53):
You can keep it from becomingan ugly, daily, fractious fight.
That's the that's thedifference.
That's the difference.
Sheila Nonato (41:06):
When you mention authority, I'm thinking about,
you know, there are these,again, you were talking about
theories, experts, um, how we'resupposed to be friends with our
kids.
And uh authority sounds soharsh and uh maybe even mean.
But I feel like parents havegiven up, you know, some parents
(41:28):
may not notice that they'vegiven up the authority and
handed it over to the cultureand to their friends, to their
peers.
Is this correct?
Is that what we're seeing now?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (41:37):
You're right on.
You're right on there, Sheila.
Here's a simple authority testI give to my clients.
They'll say to me, and I get alot of folks that are
faith-filled Christians,faith-filled Catholics, and
they'll say to me, one of theirstruggles is they're out of sync
with the culture.
Okay, the culture is much moremorally loose than they want to
raise their children.
So they say, we have highstandards.
(41:59):
I don't understand why we'restruggling with this discipline.
And and you know, we've gotfriends and people telling us
that the reason we're strugglingis because our standards are
too high, that that our kids aregoing to rebel against our high
standards, and we got to relaxour standards.
I mean, that's a common messagethrown to parents with high
standards.
I'll address that in a second.
(42:20):
I ask them this.
If you were to tell this childthat was mean, please go to the
corner.
Or that was disrespectful.
Go to bed, your night's over.
Or I can't believe you didthat.
(42:40):
Um you're grounded for threedays, and I'm gonna write a
nice, I want you to write a nice500-word essay on on why that
was so wrong, and then you'regonna have double chores, and
I'll I'll give you the chores.
I'll say, if you were to dothat, what would happen?
Now, when you don't haveauthority, nine times out of
ten, the parents are gonna say,a fight, refusal, argument, I'd
(43:08):
have to scream and yell andbecome a lunatic, threaten,
sneakiness, basic resistance.
I say, well then then no matterhow high your standards are,
you don't have authority.
Now they didn't do that onpurpose, it just slipped away
because they thought they couldreason with the child, they
could tell him you don't callyour sister that, and he'll
(43:30):
absorb it.
He'll just go after about thefifth time you say you don't
call your sister that, he'll go,maybe I shouldn't call my
sister that.
That's not a nice thing.
Now, he may realize it's not anice thing because he's a decent
kid, but when his sisterirritates him, that goes by the
wayside.
He's gonna call her that becauseshe just did something he
(43:53):
didn't like.
All right, so how do we stopthis?
I talked about high standardsbreeds rebellion.
I was in a meeting one time,and there was this counselor
type in there, Sheila, and shesaid, Well, we all know that if
a parent's standards are toohigh, the kids are gonna rebel.
(44:16):
Now, it was everything I coulddo to shut my mouth.
I wanted to say, no, we don'tall know that.
And that is a ridiculouscliche.
And I want to say, okay, whatare too high standards?
Well, I don't want you tomistreat your brother.
Oh, that's kind of a highstandard.
I tell you what, I'll tell youwhat.
(44:38):
You're allowed to cuss at himtwice during the week and one
kick.
Okay?
I mean, I don't want to have astandard too high.
I'd like you to make your bedevery day.
And until your bed's made, youdon't have any privileges.
That's a pretty high standard.
Okay.
Uh, you can leave it unmade onMondays and Wednesdays.
And Saturdays, if you sleep in,you can leave it unmade too.
(45:00):
I don't want to have a highstandard.
You see what I mean?
Every standard is up there.
No, we don't reach it.
Of course we don't reach it.
Nobody reaches it.
But you have to have thestandard.
Here's the other thing.
A parent will say to me, Canyou be too strict?
I'll say, Well, not really.
(45:21):
You can be too harsh.
You can be too mean.
But what is too strict in thecontext of love?
Sheila, I have no doubt thatlittle James of yours, you would
die for in two minutes.
You love that kid up one sideand down the other, and you
never realize what kids can doto your heart.
(45:41):
So you totally love him and yousacrifice yourself for him, and
you give him so many thingsevery day.
So it's not a matter of, gee, Ihave to show you how much I
appreciate you, son.
He sees it.
You hug him, you kiss him, youput food in front of him, you
take him places, you tickle him,you have fun with him, you
(46:02):
laugh with him, you do all kindsof stuff.
All right, that is good lovingparenthood.
He's not going to rebel becauseyou got discipline.
Because you say, James, you'regone to bed early.
Because today, when we were atgrandma's, do you remember what
you did?
Yeah, I know.
I grabbed it and I threw it onpurpose.
(46:22):
Yeah, son.
We get home, you're gone tobed.
That's not mean.
That's basically saying, James,you can't do that.
But see, we we don't do thatanymore, Sheila, because the
experts and all their theorieshave said, well, I think James
needs to understand.
(46:43):
Uh, maybe he can talk withgrandma, and then when you come
home, you can talk with him.
Yes, that's all well and good,but it doesn't take the place of
discipline.
After you do all that, is theregoing to be a consequence or
not?
Sheila Nonato (46:58):
And uh, I guess what you're saying, everything
from discipline to being, youknow, taking up your role as a
parent, as an authority in thelife of your children, it's all
rooted in love and also infaith.
And I am I'm truly inspired byyour story of adopting 10
children.
Can you give us a glimpse into,you know, how did that come to
(47:18):
be?
Um, it seems like such an actof love and self-sacrifice.
How did the option of adoption,the blessing of adoption, come
to your family?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (47:29):
I was getting killed by taxes.
So I figured I needed some taxdeductions.
And one of the things that theagencies don't tell you is if
you adopt in December, you stillget the tax deduction for the
whole year.
So they pretty much pay forthemselves that first year.
Long about kid number three,two things kicked in.
(47:51):
One, at that time, now my kidsare older now, they're all
adults.
But at that time, if you werewilling to adopt a cross-race,
black, biracial, and you're awhite person, I asked a lady one
time in an adoption agencysaid, if I want to adopt a
little black baby boy, how longwould I have to wait?
(48:11):
She said, What are you doingtomorrow?
So we realized if we adopt across-race, I got three white,
two Hispanic, two biracial,three black.
You can adopt tomorrow.
And that's what happened withus.
Okay, so it just kind of kepthappening.
But the second factor was mywife said this," Ray, if not us,
who?
(48:32):
We have a solid marriage.
We have the resources, we'vegot a good extended family." My
wife's a stay-at-home mom.
Um, and I she says, and I said,"and I'm a psychologist." She
goes, "Yeah, well, that'll hurtus, Ray, but we'll leave that
aside for right now." Okay.
So that's kind of how ithappened.
(48:54):
It was kind of like eatingpotato chips, you know.
You can always, you can alwaysthink you can eat one more until
you puke.
I think that's sort of whathappened.
And uh, I remember kid number11.
I was so moved, I saw a reallysad movie about a kid that that
just lived in very vilecircumstances, and I said, we
got to adopt again.
So I went home, did all thestuff he had to do.
(49:16):
I paid the fees, and I went toall the, I had to go to all the
parenting classes.
I did.
They were asking me questionsin this class, you know.
So at the end of all that, mywife says, Ray, let's go out to
eat.
Oh, okay.
See, this is code word for wegot to talk.
And we gotta talk is code wordfor let me tell you what's wrong
(49:36):
with you.
Okay, so that said, we went outto eat and she said, if you
want to adopt another child, I'mwilling.
But I have to tell you, I'mgetting pretty close to my load
limit.
And I, Sheila, being a verysensitive, nurturant, affirming
psychologist type, I realized atthat point I needed to say
(50:00):
something that would comforther.
So I said, Oh, you wimp.
I work for a living.
Actually, the truth be told, atthat point we had 10 under 12.
And I said, "Honey, you're theboss.
You're the one who's doing 98%of this.
Uh, I just write parentingbooks.
(50:20):
That's all I do.
You do the actual nitty-grittyof it." I said, "Y ou veto it,
it's over." And that's kind ofhow it ended.
And I had the chocolate drizzlecake to comfort myself.
Sheila Nonato (50:33):
I just, you know, to be honest, I was reading
your book, laughing, and thenthe talks.
Uh what is the role?
Like, I really it's soeffective the way you deliver
your message, and you know,sprinkling it with bits of
humorous stories.
Like, what is the role?
Because parenting can be hard,right?
Especially lack of sleep in theearly days.
Uh, and then the teens, youknow, the mood changes and all
(50:54):
the peer pressure and stuff likethat, all the other issues.
But parenting seems to be likepeople see it's a as a drudgery.
They don't want to be, theywant to be child-free now,
right?
But isn't there supposed to befun?
Like parenting should be fun,right?
There should be a little bit ofhumour.
You should have fun with yourkids.
Um, how did you how did you dothat with your own family?
And how can we do that now inthis age, this digital age, with
(51:16):
all the distractions, right?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (51:18):
Part of it is yeah, you don't
over-psychologize.
So many parents will come to meand they'll describe something
their kid did, and then they'rejust in agony over it.
And I'll say, "Okay, so hestole a matchbox car from the
drugstore and you found it.
What are you telling yourself?""Well, I can't believe he did
(51:38):
that because he knows how wefeel about stealing, and I'm
thinking my parenting isn'tgetting through to him, and I
don't know why he would do it."See, they're just and I'd say,
"Okay, your kid stole a matchboxtoy.
Okay, he brings it back, heapologizes, and then you put
some consequence on it.
A heavy one, but you put it onher, and then you move on with
life."See, we we overthink this, we
(52:00):
overanalyze it.
We got the parents, their headsare spinning.
That's what makes parenting inin many respects so much more
difficult.
And again, the culture's not onyour side anymore.
It's not.
So you have to be more vigilantand you have to be stronger,
and you can't get bullied byother people who tell you you're
a throwback Neanderthal, youfaith-filled weirdo trying to
(52:23):
raise your kid according to Godand Jesus' standards.
You you if you're bullied likethat.
Okay, I'll share with you asimple story.
About five years into ourmarriage, my wife and I decided
we didn't want any kids.
And the hard part of that,Sheila, was finding a time to
(52:45):
tell the kids that.
You don't get it.
Sheila Nonato (52:53):
I muted myself.
Um, well, you know, I have afriend who has 15 kids.
So yeah, and she's younger thanme.
So she Carissa Douglas, hername.
I was gonna give a shout-out toher.
She's uh an author on ScepterPress.
Um Little Douglings.
Anyway, she um she's alsosings, sounds like Jewel.
I don't know if anybodyremembers Jewel, but um, but
(53:14):
yeah, she is also an example tome that uh, you know, it's hard,
but with the grace of God andthe help of your husband, you
can do it.
Um, and I also just finallytalking about you were talking
about uh the influence of theculture, and now we have these
influencers.
I mean, we also have CharlieKirk, who gave us a positive
(53:36):
view of influencing because healways pointed to Jesus Christ.
How do we keep our children orshow our children that the real
influencers, God and theparents?
How do you how do we do that?
Any any practical tips for usand how to how to keep them in
the faith?
Dr. Ray Guarendi (53:55):
You're gonna, every day, faith is gonna infuse
your life.
You're gonna pray before meals,you're gonna pray at night,
you're gonna bless them, you'regonna pray a family rosary,
you're gonna have activities atchurch, you're gonna do these
things.
Those are all great.
And what you're doing is you'reestablishing an alternative way
to live as opposed to theculture.
Now, here is the sad reality,Sheila.
(54:18):
Never before in human historyhave so many people raised in
the faith abandoned it, leavingit, rejecting it, being hostile
toward it, coming up with allkinds of justifications why
their child rearing experiencewas horrible.
(54:39):
Okay, never before.
This has never happened.
In all of human history, themain influences were the tribe,
the family, and the clan.
That was it.
Your little tiny circle is whatinfluenced.
Not anymore.
Not anymore.
The technology, if you don'twatch, can just swamp your house
like a fog and take over andshape your kid.
All right.
So that's a reality.
(54:59):
You got to be vigilant.
You definitely have to be morevigilant.
You didn't have to be thisvigilant 100 years ago.
The culture, in many respects,thought more like you did.
Not now, not people who taketheir faith seriously.
Secondly, you can't be scared,you can't parent scared.
You can't say, if I make thatdecision, my kids are gonna hate
me, my kid is gonna run away,my kid is gonna be deceptive, my
(55:22):
kid is going to go by you startparenting like that and you
don't make any good judgments.
You don't parent by your kids'reaction, and you don't parent
by the culture's reaction.
You parent by good judgment.
Now, let's leave your viewerswith this.
One of the most common things Inow get as a psychologist is
(55:45):
parents who have raised theirchildren and watched their
children leave the faith.
That's such a common phenomenonnow.
It's not unusual for me to say,to hear from somebody, we had
five children and only two areleft in the faith.
I ran up against uh a goodfamily just recently.
They had nine kids betweenthem.
(56:05):
None left in the faith.
One kinda, kinda sorta.
A couple of them flirtingaround the edges.
So what's going on out there?
I mean, were these bad parents?
Did they just simply not impartthe faith?
Well, they did what they thoughtthey should do.
And sacraments and perhapsCatholic school, and they
thought that was enough.
(56:26):
Generally, it's not anymore.
But here's what I do tologically take away the guilt of
parents who think they failed.
What did I miss?
Maybe I should have prayed theRoserie in Aramaic while I knelt
on broken glass and levitated.
You know, what's wrong with mehere?
You do me, you do me thisexercise, Sheila.
(56:49):
You help me out on this.
I'm gonna ask you a series ofquestions, and I'm gonna prove
logically that anybodylistening, hearing, watching
your podcast, who feels guiltyabout the way their kids left
the faith, even though, asparents, they tried their very
best to raise them in the faith.
They were human, they madetheir mistakes, and maybe they
(57:12):
look back on it and say, I wouldhave done this, this, and this,
and this different.
Okay, we're all in that boat.
I'm gonna take their guildaway.
You ready?
Sheila Nonato (57:21):
Yes, yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:23):
Is there a God?
Sheila Nonato (57:24):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:25):
Is Christ God?
Sheila Nonato (57:27):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:27):
Was he sinless?
Sheila Nonato (57:29):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:30):
Could he perform miracles?
Sheila Nonato (57:32):
Absolutely.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:33):
Did he have a perfect understanding of human
nature?
Sheila Nonato (57:36):
Yes.
Dr. Ray Guarendi (57:39):
Could he get most people to follow him?
No.
Oh, so I think that theseparents must think they're
better at this than the God man.
I tease him.
Can you do America?
Can you even do a crummy cardtrack?
(57:59):
Our Lord Himself couldn't getmost people to follow him.
He was God.
So we think there's some kindof spiritual formula that we
just didn't apply right.
No.
No, you do your best to raisethem as God said, and you
recognize that's a scary worldout there.
And one good thing, I alwaystell this to parents you laid
(58:22):
down an alternative.
You expose them to analternative.
So as they move into their 20sand their 30s and they realize
they don't want youralternative, and they find out
that their alternative and theculture's alternative isn't
working so well.
Maybe they'll look back.
And I think this is oneexplanation why you're seeing
(58:44):
more and more young people turntoward the faith.
Sheila Nonato (58:50):
Well, I'm truly inspired by your story, uh, Dr.
Guarendi, and for coming on andhelping us mothers and parents
to uh navigate this kind ofdifficult, new, um, and
exciting, I guess, world of thedigital age that, you know, for
for the forces of good, we canevangelize through technology.
(59:11):
But unfortunately, there arealso the sort of negative
aspects of it that you are havebeen helping us navigate through
today.
And I encourage um ourlisteners, our viewers to um go
to your website, drray.com.
I'll put it in the show notes.
Raising upright kids in anupside down world, amazing.
So many books that you canchoose from and learn from.
(59:32):
And I am my son's gonna saygoodbye.
Say goodbye to Dr.
Ray.
Thank you so much.
God bless, God bless yourfamily.
Thank you so much.
Bye.
Thank you very much, Sister St.
Christ, for joining us thisweek.
And if you're looking forsomething to read, Dr.
Ray, a spiritual reading, Dr.
(59:52):
Ray has a new book called Drama-Free Discipline.
I'm actually looking forward toreading that as well.
And um, for our next Episode, Iam also very honoured to be
telling the story of CamilleMendoza.
Camille, who helped to designthe logo for Veil and Armour.
My sister-in-law TamaraFernandez Nonato, a gifted
artist as well, very gifted, whogenerously created this logo,
(01:00:19):
the outline of the logo.
And Camille finished it for us.
And I am very, very honouredthat both of them have
contributed to this beautifullogo of Our Lady, who is in the
in the picture, she is in thepainting, she is um pregnant
with our Lord, which is veryfitting this Advent season.
And so I um I urge you to staytuned for Camille's episode on
(01:00:45):
how grief, grieving with ourLord, helped her to be able to
see the cross in the way thatOur Lady saw the Cross through a
mother's eyes, and how Jesushelped her to heal from the
tremendous loss of her sweetchild, who is now a precious
(01:01:07):
saint in heaven, Lilo.
Take care, friends, and Godbless you and your families.
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