December 18, 2025 • 46 mins
Scrooged, a modern 80s retelling of Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" stars Bill Murray as a cynical, mean-spirited TV executive who finally learns the true meaning of Christmas, but its production was marred with difficulties.
After a four-year hiatus following the overwhelming success of Ghostbusters, Bill Murray returned to acting for this passion project. But before signing on, Murray literally tore apart the original script with screenwriters Mitch Glazer and Michael O'Donoghue to completely rework it, particularly the romantic subplot and family scenes.
What followed was one of Hollywood's most notorious productions. Director Richard Donner and Murray clashed constantly throughout the three-month shoot in New York City and Hollywood. Murray felt Donner rushed through takes and kept pushing him to perform louder and broader, while Donner struggled with Murray's improvisational style.
The $32 million production took a physical toll as well. Murray worked on dusty, smoky sets filled with fake snow that made him cough up blood. Co-star Carol Kane accidentally split his lip so badly during a scene that filming had to stop for several days. Co-writer O'Donoghue was equally miserable, claiming less than half the original script survived.
The film's iconic ending speech was almost entirely improvised by Murray, who went off-script and received a spontaneous ovation from the crew. O'Donoghue was less than impressed, but the moment became one of cinema's most memorable holiday monologues.
Scrooged adds layers of comedy and modern critique to Dickens' original text, showcasing not just the spirit of Christmas but a satirical look at the entertainment industry, and the commercialization of Christmas.
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Episode Transcript
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(02:25):
Hi, everyone. I'm Em, andwelcome to Verbal Diorama, Episode
325 Scrooged. This is thepodcast that's all about the history
and legacy. Movies you knowand movies you don't. There's a captain
of industry, feared by men,adored by women. Most of that is
true. Welcome to VerbalDiorama. Whether you're a regular
returning listener, if youare, welcome back. If you're a brand
(02:47):
new listener, welcome toVerbal Diorama. Thank you for being
here. Thank you for choosingto listen to this podcast. There
are so many podcasts out therethat all have incredible episodes
and all want you to listen tothem. I am no exception. However,
I'm so happy that you're hereand choosing to listen to yet another
Christmas episode of VerbalDiorama, mostly for the history and
(03:07):
legacy of Scrooge. If you area regular returning listener, thank
you so much for continuing tolisten and support this podcast.
This Podcast is seven yearsold in February of next year, and
I really, genuinely love doingwhat I do. So it makes such a difference
to have people continue tocome back to the podcast and continue
(03:28):
to send such lovely messagesof support on things like email and
social media. Thank you somuch. It genuinely means so much.
It is the biggest Christmasgift to me to have people enjoying
and listening to this podcastso genuinely. From the bottom of
my heart, thank you so much.This is the second of three Christmas
movies this year of DoubleDiorama last week, which Dingle all
(03:50):
the way famously had areindeer in it. There's also a famous
reindeer called Donna. So itmakes simple sense that we'd move
on to a Richard DonnerChristmas movie. There's also a distinct
capitalist feel to all of themovies that I'm featuring this year
for Christmas, that Christmasis increasingly becoming about making
(04:10):
money and scaring old ladiesto death. Maybe not so much the latter,
but it's not easy to humanizeEbenezer Scrooge less so when he's
a ruthless yuppie TV executivenamed Frank Cross, who couldn't care
less about giving elderlyladies heart attacks and is annoyed
that his secretary has giftedhis brother something other than
(04:32):
a towel. Trust me, in the 80s,a VHS was an incredibly generous
gift to give. As modernadaptations of A Christmas Carol
go, Only this one has BillMurray. This time he's inadvertently
summoning the ghosts insteadof busting them. You'll love it.
Here's the trailer for Scrooged.
(07:14):
Frank Cross may be theyoungest president of a TV network,
but he's also cynical and meanspirited, determined to milk every
drop of profit he can from theChristmas season. He treats his loyal
secretary with contempt by yetagain gifting her a towel, ignoring
her pleas to take her son tothe doctor and sacks a member of
his board on Christmas Eve fordisagreeing with his violent fear
(07:37):
mongering ad for a livebroadcast of A Christmas Carol. Not
only that, but he's alienatedhimself from his loving and supportive
younger brother. Frank isvisited one night by the ghost of
his mentor who tells him if hedoesn't change his miserly ways,
he'll be visited by threespirits. Any guess what might happen
(07:58):
next? Let's run through thecast. We have Bill Murray as Frank
Cross, Karen Allen as ClairePhillips, John Forsyth as Lou Hayward,
John Glover as Brice Cummings,Bobcat Goldthwait as Eliot Loudermilk,
David Johansson as the ghostof Christmas Past, Carol Kane as
(08:18):
the ghost of ChristmasPresent, Robert Mitchum as Preston
Rhinelander, Alfre Woodard asGrace Cooley, Nicholas Phillips as
Calvin Cooley and Michael J.Pollard as Herman. There's cameos,
loads of cameos in this movieas well by Lee Majors, John Houseman
and Robert Goulet, as well asBill Murray's brothers. John Murray
(08:41):
as James Cross, Brian DoyleMurray as Earl Cross and Joel Murray
as one of James Cross's houseguests. Scrooged has a screenplay
by Mitch Glazer and Michaelo'Donoghue, was directed by Richard
Donner and was based on AChristmas Carol by Charles Dickens.
And as long as Christmasmovies keep getting made, so too
(09:02):
will new versions of AChristmas Carol. There's actually
one coming out this year in2025 called Christmas Karma, directed
by Gurinder Chadha. 182 yearsago tomorrow, as of the general release
date of this episode, CharlesDickens novella A Christmas Carol
in Prose being a Ghost Storyof Christmas, to give it its full
(09:24):
title, was first published on19 December 1843, the first edition
of which sold out by ChristmasEve. Even back then in the 19th century,
counterfeiting was a thing andinsensitive copies of A Christmas
Carol, as it was most commonlyreferred to, began to surface. In
January 1844, Dickens actuallytook legal action against the publishers
(09:46):
of the counterfeit copies, butthe publisher went bankrupt and so
his losses from the case meantsmaller profits from the publication
of A Christmas Carol than youmight think. A Christmas Carol has
never been out of print in 182years. It's been translated into
several languages and has hadcountless adaptations, over 150 actually
(10:07):
on stage, live action,animated films, television, radio
adaptations, opera, ballet,graphic novels, as well as parodies
and derivative works. Theearliest adaptation was in February
1844, two months after thebook's publication, a stage production
running for 40 nights, withwhich was sanctioned by Dickens himself.
(10:31):
Speaking of counterfeits, bythe end of February 1844, eight rival
productions of A ChristmasCarol were also playing in London.
A Christmas Carol captured themid Victorian revival of celebrations
of the Christmas holidays,family gatherings, the giving and
receiving of gifts, partiesand seasonal food and drink. But
(10:52):
most importantly to thisstory, the spirit of the season.
And specifically focusing on aman who has none, Ebenezer Scrooge,
reportedly based on twonotorious misers. John Elwes, an
MP who assumed a vast fortunebut refused to spend his wealth,
which had been estimated at atotal of 74 million pounds in 2018.
(11:14):
Money. Or Jenny Wood, theowner of Gloucester Old bank, who
despite a total wealth of over100 million pounds in 2018 money,
refused to spend his ownmoney, but instead chose to spend
the city of Gloucester's moneyas the mayor of the city between
1811 and 1813. Both of thesemen died with extreme wealth accumulated,
(11:36):
but in the case of Jemmy Wood,his coffin was said to have been
stoned. A Christmas Carol hasbeen adapted so many times because
it's one of the greateststories ever told. Adapting it to
a modern audience is easybecause everyone loves a good redemption
arc. And when you have thedirector of Lethal Weapon and the
star of Ghostbusters, yousurely can't go wrong, right? It
(12:00):
was the mid-80s when MichaelO'Donoghue, the first head writer
of Saturday Night Live and thefirst performer to deliver a 9 on
the series, and his friendMitch Glazer, a former journalist
who worked for Crawdaddy,Rolling Stone and Playboy and a good
friend of John Belushi, teamedup to adapt A Christmas Carol for
the modern at the time 80saudience. In 1977, Glazer had been
(12:24):
the first journalist topublish a cover story on John Belushi,
and he jumped at the chancewhen Belushi and his friend Dan Aykroyd
asked him to write a movie forthem. That movie was never made,
but the experience of bothMichael o'Donoghue and Mitch Glazer
would link to them beingtapped to write Scrooge. And surprisingly,
(12:44):
their knowledge of SNL and thevague actors who worked at SNL in
the 80s made setting acontemporary adaptation of A Christmas
Carol in the cutthroat worldof TV executives make complete sense.
And while the script wentthrough countless revisions, the
solid source material made itsomething special. But the question
remained how to end it. In away honest to Frank Cross and the
(13:06):
decade in which it was set.They'd both been living in New York
city for over 18 years andthey noticed that every year on Christmas
Eve, the city would bedifferent somehow. People would be
happier. They'd have more of aspring in their step, a smile on
their face, relishing theholiday spirit. New York City on
Christmas Eve was for allintents and purposes a miracle. It
(13:31):
wasn't a cheesy Hallmarkending. It wasn't overly sentimental
or manipulative. It washonest, heartfelt emotion with an
edge. And being written by SNLveterans who were friends with SNL
veterans meant they had eyeson an SNL veteran to play their lead
character. And after snl, BillMurray became a movie star in his
(13:52):
own right, thanks toCaddyshack in 1980, Stripes in 1981
and Tootsie in 1982. It wasGhostbusters in 1984 though that
made Bill Murray an a listerafter Ghostbusters became overwhelming
and a movie he made the sameyear called the Razor's Edge flopped.
Bill Murray took a selfimposed hiatus from acting, only
(14:14):
returning for a cameo inLittle Shop of horrors in 1986. He
lived in Europe for six monthsand came back to some scripts after
that and just didn't thinkthey were good enough, so he just
didn't do them. He receivedthe script for Scrooge two years
into his four year downtime.But Murray elected to wait. When
(14:34):
the desire to performreturned, he returned to the Scrooge
script and reworked it withGlazer and o'. Donoghue. And by that
I mean he literally threw theold script out and they rebuilt it
from scratch. He took aromance that had been removed from
an early draft and added moreto it, building up the character
of Claire Phillips. He wantedto do more with Frank Cross's family,
(14:56):
so they added more familyscenes, along with the character
of Grace and her familybecoming important to the plot, too.
Bill Murray is an actor knownfor his comedy and his improv. But
also, taking a hiatus fromacting at the peak of his career
meant that his return toacting needed to be something really
good. It needed to be thereason for his return. The idea of
(15:19):
making A Christmas Carol andthe character of Ebenezer Scrooge
funny wasn't going to be easy,but it was something he knew he could
do. And the promise of a $6million salary was enough for him
to return to. The idea beingthat audiences would pay the big
bucks to see Bill Murray, tosee him in a Christmas movie, and
(15:39):
to see him as, quote, unquote,Scrooge. The irony of Murray waiting
four years would also lead toa delay in filming the Ghostbusters
sequel, which then had to waittill Murray finished his commitments
on Scrooge. But then, whenMurray was ready, the script for
Ghostbusters 2 wasn't. But tobe honest, those Ghostbusters movies
probably deserve episodes oftheir own one day. And if you're
(16:02):
wondering, no, I never havegone for Ghostbusters 1 or 2 on this
podcast, that is somethingthat I probably need to change. Richard
Donner was just coming off theincredibly successful Lethal Weapon,
also a Christmas movie. That'sepisode 279 of this podcast. But
he was mostly known forSuperman and the omen in the 70s
and the Goonies in the early80s. Getting Richard Donner as the
(16:24):
director would have been a bigdeal at the time. And Donner was
interested in the script. SoBill Murray took Richard Donner out
for drinks to see if theywould get along, and they did. And
so Richard Donner joined theproject, and it was greenlit by Paramount.
A Richard Donner moviestarring Bill Murray. Again, what
could go wrong? You'll seewhere I'm going with this. This was
(16:47):
an 80s studio comedy, and itwas budgeted at a cost of $32 million.
Nowadays, that's not really alot of money. However, just to put
it into perspective, BladeRunner cost $30 million in 1982.
Indiana Jones and the Templeof Doom cost $28 million in 1984.
(17:09):
Even the most expensive movieof 1988, at the time the most expensive
movie ever made, Rambo 3, cost$58 million. Scrooged was mostly
filmed on sets, but those setswere elaborate. They used stage 29
at Paramount Studios in LosAngeles for the scenes in Frank Cross's
(17:29):
office, Frank Cross's bedroom,and the film set for A Christmas
Carol. So this was a fairlylavish production for the time and
an incredibly lavishproduction for a studio comedy. But
then there was the peopleproblem. Richard Donner had never
worked with anyone quite likeBill Murray, and he wrote, ring,
Direct Bill Murray. You justlet him be Bill Murray. One of Donner's
(17:53):
famous quotes about workingwith him on this movie was, quote,
you don't direct Billy, youpull him back. He added, quote, Billy
really became an actor to meduring Scrooge. I had always thought
of him as an entertainer. Now,having worked with him, I could see
him playing a heavy. He's agood enough actor. You give him a
(18:14):
platform, make him ascomfortable as possible, and he comes
at you from every direction.He did for me. Filming was long.
Murray's improvisational stylemeant he wanted takes to be one and
done. He wanted his dialogueto be spontaneous. He'd worked with
Mitch Glazer and MichaelO'Donaghue on snl. He trusted them
(18:34):
and he wanted to follow hisown process. Donner had his own way
of doing things. He wantedlots of takes, wanted Murray in full
Murray mode. Murray wouldlater say, quote, he kept telling
me to do things louder,louder, louder. I think he was deaf,
unquote. It was becoming clearboth men had different visions for
(18:54):
Scrooged. And Scrooged was adifficult movie for Bill Murray.
He didn't have the luxury ofplaying in an ensemble like Ghostbusters.
He was the sole star of themovie and had the responsibility
of carrying an entire movie onhis shoulders. Despite a big name
supporting cast includingKaren Allen, Bobcat Goldthwait, John
(19:15):
Glover and Robert Mitchum,Murray had quite a bit of the say
on who was cast in the movie,including three of his brothers in
various roles, as I've alreadysaid, and his friend, singer songwriter
David Johansson, the leadsinger of the New York Dolls. As
the Ghost of Christmas Past.He was even the one who persuaded
Robert Mitchum to join themovie. After Mitchum initially turned
(19:36):
the role down. Bill Murraywould admit afterwards that the filming
of the movie was a miserableexperience for him for several reasons.
Thankfully, decades later, hewould look back at the experience
fondly. But then the passageof time tends to change opinions.
Murray's experiences workingwith Richard Donner were one thing,
but his experiences workingwith Carol Kane were another. Kane's
(20:00):
Ghost of Christmas Present wasa beautiful, dainty ballerina fairy,
but wouldn't pull her puncheswhen it came to dealing With Frank
Cross, quite literally. It wasBill Murray's idea for the scenes
to be physical between the twocharacters and for hers to not hold
back from it. And because ofit, Kane would become quite emotional
for how violent her characterwas being. The role was physically
(20:22):
demanding for both actors,with Kane punching, pinching and
hitting Frank with a toaster.When she pulled Bill Murray's lip,
it really pulled his lips fromhis gums, injuring him and pausing
filming for a few days. Kanewould often break down on set, spending
20 minutes crying beforefilming could resume. And Bill Murray's
wasn't the only real injuryeither. When Frank is startled by
(20:46):
what he thinks is the Ghost ofChristmas Future, he elbows his secretary
Grace in the jaw. And BillMurray did accidentally hit Alfre
Woodard in the face. CarolKane's scenes would feature a ballet
dance, and she trained forweeks to learn the dance, knowing
that a real ballerina would bedoubling for her. She showed J. Michael
Riva, the film's art director,her dance at the studio and he started
(21:09):
laughing hysterically. Katetried so hard to learn the dance
and it just turned out to bereally quite bad. So instead of having
a perfect dance double, theygot Kane to dance it for real, just
to show the character tryingto dance. Kane would graciously call
the choice by Riva and RichardDonner courageous and creative. She
(21:29):
would have fond memories ofworking with Murray. Him, probably
not so much. In a 1988 NATimes interview, John Glover, who
played Brice, said he basedhis character on TV producer Don
Ohlmeyer, one of America'smost well known TV producers and
the former president of NBC'sWest coast division. Almayer actually
(21:51):
fired Norm MacDonald fromSaturday Night Live in early 1998,
a move that was widelybelieved to have been motivated by
MacDonald's refusal to stopmaking jokes at the expense of Ohlmeyer's
golfing buddy, O.J. simpson.Glover visited Ohlmeyer for tips
on his performance. Quote, hetold me about what he wanted to do
(22:11):
and what he had to do to getahead. He did it ethically, but I
concentrated just on thesuccess and drive part of his character
and forgot about his ethics,unquote. At the very start of the
movie, we see exactly whatSanta thinks of terrorists as the
Night the Reindeer Died playsout. Originally, Lee Marvin was cast
as Santa Claus, but He died inAugust 1987 during pre production.
(22:35):
Lee Manger's action hero rolewas originally written for Chuck
Norris, but reportedly MelGibson was also considered and Richard
Donner obviously had the guyon speed dial. After Lethal Weapon,
everyone was Attracted to themovie because of its great script.
But there ended up being a lotof improvisation on set. Scenes were
planned, but actors wereencouraged to improvise and often
(22:57):
scenes were rewritten on set.They also filmed on location in New
York in the middle of winterin 1987, often starting at 5am when
it was bitterly cold.O'Donoghue would estimate that only
40% of his and Glazer'soriginal script ended on screen.
There was a lot of materialshot over the three and a half months
(23:19):
of filming between December1987 and March 1988. Many scenes
that were filmed but havenever seen the light of day, not
even an extended edition ordirector's cut. The fake snow they
used on set allegedly causedBill Murray to cough up blood. And
when it came to the movie'sfinal redemption speech, o'Donoghue
and Glazer wrote a moving,inspired speech for Frank Cross.
(23:42):
They desperately wanted BillMurray to read the speech as written
in the script. But Murrayinstead went off on a big, emotional,
completely unscripted tirade.The casting crew thought that he
was having a nervous breakdownas gave him a mini ovation at the
end of his frenzied speech.But after the applause died down,
o'Donoghue voiced hisdispleasure, only to be punched in
(24:05):
the arm by Richard Donner.Murray's performance during the closing
credits to get the cinemaaudiences to participate in the sing
song were also completely adlibbed. But fundamentally, this is
a movie about spirits. Andspeaking of spirits, this is also
the last movie appearance fora couple of people. Oscar winner
John Houseman died the monthbefore the movie was released. Oscar
(24:28):
nominee Anne Ramsay died a fewmonths before its release. Unit production
manager and executive producerRoger M. Rothstein and art department
set construction coordinatorRobert Scaife also passed away shortly
after filming. This moviewould also be the last on screen
appearance for the Solid GoldDancers. Not that they died, but
their TV show was cancelled inJuly of 1988. Scrooged is dedicated
(24:53):
to Robert Scaife, Anne Ramsayand Roger M. Rothstein. And this
is where I segue into theobligatory Keanu reference of this
episode. And if you don't knowone of those, it's why I try and
link every meal that I featurewith Keanu Reeves for no reason other
than he is no Scrooge and heis the best of men. But this was
actually incredibly difficultbecause trying to link Keanu Reeves
(25:15):
to a character like EbenezerScrooge or Frank Cross is not easy.
I actually found a movie thatcame out this year in 2025, a movie
directed by Aziz Ansari,starring Seth Rogen, Aziz Ansari,
Kiki Palmer, Sandra oh andKeanu Reeves. It's a movie called
(25:36):
Good Fortune and the reasonwhy I'm mentioning Good Fortune is
that I found a review thatdescribed it as a character having
a Christmas Carol styleawakening as supernatural intervention
shows him what a rich, selfishScrooge he's become. Keanu Reeves
plays an angel in the moviebecause of course he plays an angel
(25:56):
in the movie. I have not seenGood Fortune, but it is the easiest
way to link Keanu Reeves to acharacter like Frank Cross and a
movie that's based on AChristmas Carol. The score for Scrooge
was composed by Danny Elfmanand this was before Batman and Edward
Scissorhands made him one ofHollywood's go to composers. Scrooged
(26:18):
was Elfman's first big budgetHollywood score and had to mix wildly
broad comedy, holiday cheer,gothic horror and emotional drama.
The song Put a Little Love inyoun Heart was released as a single
by Annie Lennox and Al Green.The studio did some pre release audience
screenings for Scrooge insummer 1988 and those screenings
(26:40):
were positive, with 93% ofviewers rating the film as very good,
the highest rating ParamountPictures had received at the time.
Critics screenings nearest therelease, however, were met with mixed
responses and Scrooge wasreleased on 23rd November 1988, the
same week as the Land BeforeTime and Oliver and Company, but
(27:03):
also six days into the week soit opened at fifth to the Land Before
Times. First, it jumped tonumber one in its second week with
the fourth highest openingweekend of the year. It would stay
in the top 10 over Christmasand into the new year. Over eight
weeks on its budget of $32million, Scrooge would gross $60.3
million in the US and $40million internationally for a total
(27:27):
worldwide gross of $100.3million. Not a flop by any means,
but still considered adisappointment considering the star
power. Scrooge would laterfind more success in the home video
market and on TV. And on 31stOctober 2006, Paramount Home Entertainment
announced it would bereleasing Scrooge in an all new you'll
(27:50):
Love it edition on dvd, whichwould feature commentary by director
Richard Donner and featurettescalled Christmas to Remember, updating
Ebenezer, Bringing the Ghostto Life, the Look of Scrooge and
on the set with Bill MurrayParts 1 and 2. Paramount promoted
the you'll Love it edition aslate as September of 2006, but it
(28:13):
miraculously disappeared andwas never released. Scrooge was released
on Blu Ray in November 2011with none of those additional featurettes.
But then the 4K version ofScrooge, which was released on 7
November 2023 for the film's35th anniversary, contained the missing
(28:33):
commentary by Richard Donnerand the featurettes A Christmas to
Remember, Updating Ebenezer,Bringing the Ghosts to Life, the
Look of Scrooge, and On theSet with Bill Murray, parts one and
two. So we did get the you'lllove it edition eventually. Now I
mentioned mixed reviews, andthis is something that has plagued
(28:53):
Fringe for many years. Itcurrently has a rating of 71% on
rotten tomatoes, with aconsensus of Scrooge gets by with
Bill Murray and a dash ofholiday spirit. Although it's hampered
by a markedly conflicted toneand an undercurrent of mean spiritedness,
contemporary critics seem tothink of it more positively than
(29:16):
those at the time. Criticalreviews in 1988 were mixed, calling
it unsettling, cynical anddark in tone. Movie critic Roger
Ebert said that it was theworst film adaptation of A Christmas
Carol that he'd ever seen. Imean, it's not the best Rog, but
it's certainly not the worst,he would say, quote, scrooge is one
(29:40):
of the most disquieting,unsettling films to come along in
quite some time. It wasobviously intended as a comedy, but
there is little comic aboutit, and indeed the movie's overriding
emotions seem to be pain andanger. This entire production seems
to be in dire need of visitsfrom the ghosts of Christmas. The
Hollywood Reporter said thatthe story was uproarious and sometimes
(30:03):
vitriolic, labeling it ascathing satire of the entertainment
industry that was a wild andwoolly holiday feast that should
scrape off the competition.Jonathan Rosenbaum called Scrooge
an ironic film for seeminglycondemning the commercialization
of Christmas while alsocapitalizing on it taking the moral
message of A Christmas Carolwithout sacrificing its yuppie priorities
(30:26):
for an instant. The movie wasalso disavowed by writer Michael
O'Donoghue before his death in1994. He died when he was only 54
years of age. He would say,and I'm using different words here,
quote, we wrote an effingmasterpiece. We wrote It Happened
One Night. We wrote a storythat could make you laugh and cry.
(30:48):
You would have wanted to shareit with your grandchildren every
effing Christmas for the next100 years. The finished film was
A piece of unadulterated,unmitigated S word. Michael o'Donoghue
was not mincing his words.Scrooge would be nominated for Best
makeup at the 61st AcademyAwards, but it was lose to Beetlejuice,
(31:11):
which is another Danny Elfmanscore on that one. I mean, it's no
the Muppet Christmas Carol,but it's decent enough. And let me
make it completely clear. LikeJingle all the Way the last episode,
I have zero emotionalconnection to this movie. I like
it, but I don't love it. Ilove the setting. Like Jingle all
the Way, about thecommercialization of Christmas, a
(31:33):
modern take on A ChristmasCarol. It is a story that transcends
time. But while Bill Murray isthe star, he's also somewhat its
downfall. It's hard to take asincere redemption arc seriously
when you have Bill Murray adlibbing jokes. Frank Cross is not
an easy character to like.That's the point. But his redemption
(31:54):
struggles because of BillMurray, because he's an actor you
really want to like, even whenhe plays deplorable people. But the
difference between PeterVenkman, a slime bull ghostbuster
who flirts with young women,and Frank Cross, who literally fires
someone for voicing anopinion, doesn't care. An old lady
has died, tells his secretaryshe can't take time off for a doctor's
(32:14):
appointment for her child.Murray is both the best thing about
this movie and the worst.Frank Cross, I fear, might be a bit
too mean spirited. He needs todo more to be redeemed. Ebenezer
Scrooge may be a miserablegit, but I fully believe Michael
Caine was redeemed in theMuppet Christmas Carol. I believe
(32:35):
he learned the error of hisways. I don't believe it quite so
much for Frank Cross, mostlybecause even though he gave Elliot
Loudermilk his job back with araise, the guy still holds up a live
production team hostage with agun. Because redemption arc in real
life, Frank Cross is gonnalose his job and Elliot Loudermilk
(32:57):
is going to jail. I don'tthink the central romance helps much,
but it does help. But hetreats Karen Allen's Claire awfully.
Actually, not once do I thinkthey're suited for each other. She
makes him a better person, buttruthfully, he needs to want to become
a better person. He rejectsher multiple times before he coerces
(33:19):
and compels her to join him infront of the cameras, finally choosing
her. And after protesting, shereluctantly obliges. But it's his
choice, not hers, to do this.So publicly. And I guess I'm just
not a fan of this sort ofpower dynamic relationship. Although
I will say her inclusion inthe movie is better than no inclusion
(33:39):
at all. And Karen Allen is, asalways, completely delightful as
Karen Allen always is. Donnaand Murray did butt heads during
filming, but up until hisdeath in 2021, Donna praised working
with him, which is goodbecause that's the healthiest, albeit
sometimes the hardest way tocome out of a scenario where two
creatives are literally tryingto make the best possible product
(34:02):
in their own minds. And I dogenuinely believe that they are both
trying to make this the bestpossible version of A Christmas Carol
that they could. The trueredemption arc of this movie sits
with one character. The onecharacter I believe in, the one character
that made me cry like a babyat the end. And he didn't even need
redeeming, he just needed tobelieve in something again. And that
(34:26):
was young Calvin Cooley.Honestly, that little boy saying,
God bless us everyone. Toquote the Ghost of Christmas Past
Niagara Falls, Calvin is thetidy Tim, reimagined as a young black
boy whose affliction isn't aterminal illness, but having seen
his father get murdered. It'sheartbreaking stuff. And for a wealthy
(34:49):
white man to not only see thepoverty, but of his African American
secretary's large family, butalso show empathy towards them not
only feels progressive for thelate 80s, but also feels progressive
for a character like FrankCross. And I actually really like
that about him because heshowed that empathy early on in the
movie. He didn't wait untilthe end. And that is one great thing
(35:12):
that I really loved about thechoices that they made for that character.
Scrooged does have a message,but it's so muddled because it can
never seem to decide whetherTV is good or bad. Frank Cross is
on TV telling people not towatch TV but to spend time with their
families instead. So is TV aninherently awful business or is it
(35:36):
the source of fond familymemories? And maybe that's due to
the time the movie was beingmade. With the global stock markets
crashing In October of 1987,there was a general upset in the
US at the time, and maybe thatis why it feels so muddled. And yet
Scrooge still more or lessworks, and credit must go mostly
(35:57):
to Charles Dickens. Maybe BillMurray looks so unhappy because he
actually was. Maybe this isjust the ultimate method acting.
I did laugh a little at thesupposed scenes of the past where
they just stuck a long wig onhim because he still looks the same
age. It sounds like I'M reallypushing back on this movie but there
is a lot that I like about it.The ghost of Christmas Future is
(36:19):
legit terrifying, as he shouldbe. Him coming over the TV screens
is a truly great scene that Iwish I could have found out more
about, but there was simplynothing on the Internet that I could
find about the ghost ofChristmas Future. The soles in his
chest, so nice. Frank had tolook twice. I really love that effect.
I think it's absolutelyterrific. I really like the Night
(36:42):
the Reindeer Died sketch. I'mpretty sure that's also the plot
for Violent Night, which is avery fun Christmas movie as well.
This is not supposed to be forchildren and a more modern grown
up interpretation of AChristmas Carol is actually very
welcome. The themes are prettyuniversal. Goodwill towards all men,
greed, forgiveness, regret,love, family, friendship, charity,
(37:06):
mercy, kindness. It can all beboiled down to one simple idea. Be
a good person who dedicatestheir life to making the lives of
others better. The productiondesign is great. The costume and
character work for the ghostsis great. The Danny Elfman score
is great. Alfra Woodard isgreat, as she always is. The fake
(37:26):
snow was probably toxic, sonot so great. Carol Kane got to beat
down our Bill Murray for abit. A Christmas Carol, literally.
The makeup making John Forsythlook like he just crawled out of
a grave is great. In manyways, this movie was ahead of its
time and it is incrediblyunderrated, possibly even by me.
(37:46):
Frank's trainer for AChristmas Carol is so ridiculous,
so violent and so depraved, itmay be something a TV network of
today would use to get peoplewatching the King's Speech with screaming
and explosions. I'd watch it,but while I admittedly merely like
this movie, many, many peoplelove it because it's so unique. It
(38:08):
found new life on VHS and DVDand tv. It's become more beloved
as the years have passed. Ifyou love A Christmas Carol and you
love Bill Murray at his peak,there is a lot to love here. In 2015,
IGM named it the 11th bestholiday movie of all time. In 2016,
Empire listed Scrooge as theseventh best Christmas film, and
(38:30):
in 2017, Timeout andConsequence of Sound listed it as
respectively, the 12th bestand 23rd best Christmas film. That
same year, Collider named itthe fifth best adaptation of A Christmas
Carol. And yes, I guess I findit hard to not compare it to the
Muppet Christmas Carol, whichis the best adaptation of the story.
(38:51):
That is on me. But if we cantake anything from this movie, it's
that Christmas Eve is the onenight of the year when we all act
a little nicer. We smile alittle easier, we cheer a little
more. For a couple of hoursout of the whole year, we are the
people that we always hoped wewould be. Except we should be that
365 days of the year. Andhopefully after the events of this
(39:13):
movie, Frank Cross did Butit's great that you've listened to
this episode. Now more thanever, it is important to remember
the true meaning of Christmas.Don't miss Richard Donner's immortal
classic Scrooged. Your lifemight just depend on it. Thank you
for listening. As always, Iwould love to hear your thoughts
on Scrooged and thank you foryour continued support of this podcast.
(39:37):
If you wanna show your supportin multiple different ways, you could
leave a rating or reviewwherever you found this podcast.
You could tell your friendsand family about this podcast or
you can find me and follow meon social media and you can share
the podcast that way. I am atVerbal Diorama. You can share posts
like posts, comment on posts.It all helps really to get the word
(39:59):
out there and to hopefully getother people to know this podcast
and know what I've been doing.I genuinely love doing this podcast
and anything you could do tohelp would be so appreciated. If
you like this episode onScrooged, you should also watch and
listen to the episode on theMuppet Christmas Carol, which is
episode 185. Genuinely one ofmy favorite Christmas movies of all
(40:23):
time. I will be watching itagain with the kids this year because
my love for the MuppetChristmas Carol knows no bounds.
It is in my opinion thesuperior adaptation of A Christmas
Carol, but as I said, AChristmas Carol is such a timeless
story that it just works witheverything. Whether you are a yuppie
TV executive in the 80s orwhether you have no cheeses for us.
(40:45):
Mises, as always, give mefeedback. Let me know what you think
of my recommendation. It isthe best one. It just is. The next
episode is the final episodeof the year on this podcast and it
is a very British Christmasfavorite. No, I'm very proud of the
listeners that I have in theUSA and I'm grateful to know some
(41:08):
incredible people over in theUS and Americans tend to obsess over
A Christmas Story. I didn'teven know that movie existed until
a few years ago because itdidn't really make much of a splash
over here. It's not really amovie that we watch or we talk about
because here in the UK we HaveSanta Claus the Movie. It is a movie
(41:29):
that came out two years afterA Christmas Story, a lavish, expensive
film about the origins ofSanta Claus. There's also somehow
about how evil corporationsmake money from Christmas. But it
is a British festive cultclassic. Every year you can guarantee
it'll be on around Christmas.In fact, it already has been here
(41:50):
in the uk. But while it was ahuge production, it's also a bit
of a notorious flop. So joinme next week for the history and
legacy of Santa Claus theMovie. That episode is due out the
very day the big man himselfactually sets off with all of our
toys. So hopefully he's gotsome headphones for the journey to
(42:13):
listen to his own story. Ifyou enjoy what I do for this podcast
and you have some spare changeand you want to support an indie
podcaster who does literallyall of this, everything, on her own,
I have no assistance. I haveno one helping. I have no one doing
research. Me, I have to do itall by myself. And it's really hard
sometimes. It's really tough.But if you enjoy and you get something
(42:37):
out of these episodes and youhave the means to help, you're under
no obligation, of course. Butthere are a couple of ways you can
help if you have the means to.You can make a one off donation@verbaldiorama.com
tips or you can subscribe tothe patreon@verbaldiorama.com patreon
and all money made goes backinto this podcast by paying for things
(42:59):
like software subscriptionsand website hosting and sometimes
even new equipment as well. Ahuge thank you to the amazing patrons
of this podcast to Simon,Laurel, Derek, Kat, Andy, Mike, Luke,
Michael, Scott, Brendan, Ian,Lisa, Sam, Jackson, Dave, Stuart,
Nicholas. So Kev, Heather,Danny, Stu, Brett, Philip M. Xenos,
(43:22):
Sean, Rhino, Philip K, Adam,Elaine, Kyle, Aaron and Connor. If
you want to get in touch, youcan email verbal diorama gmail.com
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out the contact form. You cansay hello, you can give feedback,
or you can give suggestions,or you can just say, I listened to
(43:44):
this episode and I watched themovie and this is what I thought
of the movie. I wouldgenuinely love to hear from you.
You can also DM me on socialmedia as well. I really love to hear
from people and I always tryto respond as quickly as possible.
I'm hugely grateful to you allfor your support. And finally
(46:14):
Bye.
Hi, everyone. I'm Em, andwelcome to Verbal Diorama, Episode
325 Scrooged. This is thepodcast that's all about the history
and legacy. Movies you knowand movies you don't. There's a captain
of industry, feared by men,adored by women. Most of that is
true. Welcome to VerbalDiorama. Whether you're a regular
returning listener, if youare, welcome back. If you're a brand
(02:47):
new listener, welcome toVerbal Diorama. Thank you for being
here. Thank you for choosingto listen to this podcast. There
are so many podcasts out therethat all have incredible episodes
and all want you to listen tothem. I am no exception. However,
I'm so happy that you're hereand choosing to listen to yet another
Christmas episode of VerbalDiorama, mostly for the history and
(03:07):
legacy of Scrooge. If you area regular returning listener, thank
you so much for continuing tolisten and support this podcast.
This Podcast is seven yearsold in February of next year, and
I really, genuinely love doingwhat I do. So it makes such a difference
to have people continue tocome back to the podcast and continue
(03:28):
to send such lovely messagesof support on things like email and
social media. Thank you somuch. It genuinely means so much.
It is the biggest Christmasgift to me to have people enjoying
and listening to this podcastso genuinely. From the bottom of
my heart, thank you so much.This is the second of three Christmas
movies this year of DoubleDiorama last week, which Dingle all
(03:50):
the way famously had areindeer in it. There's also a famous
reindeer called Donna. So itmakes simple sense that we'd move
on to a Richard DonnerChristmas movie. There's also a distinct
capitalist feel to all of themovies that I'm featuring this year
for Christmas, that Christmasis increasingly becoming about making
(04:10):
money and scaring old ladiesto death. Maybe not so much the latter,
but it's not easy to humanizeEbenezer Scrooge less so when he's
a ruthless yuppie TV executivenamed Frank Cross, who couldn't care
less about giving elderlyladies heart attacks and is annoyed
that his secretary has giftedhis brother something other than
(04:32):
a towel. Trust me, in the 80s,a VHS was an incredibly generous
gift to give. As modernadaptations of A Christmas Carol
go, Only this one has BillMurray. This time he's inadvertently
summoning the ghosts insteadof busting them. You'll love it.
Here's the trailer for Scrooged.
(07:14):
Frank Cross may be theyoungest president of a TV network,
but he's also cynical and meanspirited, determined to milk every
drop of profit he can from theChristmas season. He treats his loyal
secretary with contempt by yetagain gifting her a towel, ignoring
her pleas to take her son tothe doctor and sacks a member of
his board on Christmas Eve fordisagreeing with his violent fear
(07:37):
mongering ad for a livebroadcast of A Christmas Carol. Not
only that, but he's alienatedhimself from his loving and supportive
younger brother. Frank isvisited one night by the ghost of
his mentor who tells him if hedoesn't change his miserly ways,
he'll be visited by threespirits. Any guess what might happen
(07:58):
next? Let's run through thecast. We have Bill Murray as Frank
Cross, Karen Allen as ClairePhillips, John Forsyth as Lou Hayward,
John Glover as Brice Cummings,Bobcat Goldthwait as Eliot Loudermilk,
David Johansson as the ghostof Christmas Past, Carol Kane as
(08:18):
the ghost of ChristmasPresent, Robert Mitchum as Preston
Rhinelander, Alfre Woodard asGrace Cooley, Nicholas Phillips as
Calvin Cooley and Michael J.Pollard as Herman. There's cameos,
loads of cameos in this movieas well by Lee Majors, John Houseman
and Robert Goulet, as well asBill Murray's brothers. John Murray
(08:41):
as James Cross, Brian DoyleMurray as Earl Cross and Joel Murray
as one of James Cross's houseguests. Scrooged has a screenplay
by Mitch Glazer and Michaelo'Donoghue, was directed by Richard
Donner and was based on AChristmas Carol by Charles Dickens.
And as long as Christmasmovies keep getting made, so too
(09:02):
will new versions of AChristmas Carol. There's actually
one coming out this year in2025 called Christmas Karma, directed
by Gurinder Chadha. 182 yearsago tomorrow, as of the general release
date of this episode, CharlesDickens novella A Christmas Carol
in Prose being a Ghost Storyof Christmas, to give it its full
(09:24):
title, was first published on19 December 1843, the first edition
of which sold out by ChristmasEve. Even back then in the 19th century,
counterfeiting was a thing andinsensitive copies of A Christmas
Carol, as it was most commonlyreferred to, began to surface. In
January 1844, Dickens actuallytook legal action against the publishers
(09:46):
of the counterfeit copies, butthe publisher went bankrupt and so
his losses from the case meantsmaller profits from the publication
of A Christmas Carol than youmight think. A Christmas Carol has
never been out of print in 182years. It's been translated into
several languages and has hadcountless adaptations, over 150 actually
(10:07):
on stage, live action,animated films, television, radio
adaptations, opera, ballet,graphic novels, as well as parodies
and derivative works. Theearliest adaptation was in February
1844, two months after thebook's publication, a stage production
running for 40 nights, withwhich was sanctioned by Dickens himself.
(10:31):
Speaking of counterfeits, bythe end of February 1844, eight rival
productions of A ChristmasCarol were also playing in London.
A Christmas Carol captured themid Victorian revival of celebrations
of the Christmas holidays,family gatherings, the giving and
receiving of gifts, partiesand seasonal food and drink. But
(10:52):
most importantly to thisstory, the spirit of the season.
And specifically focusing on aman who has none, Ebenezer Scrooge,
reportedly based on twonotorious misers. John Elwes, an
MP who assumed a vast fortunebut refused to spend his wealth,
which had been estimated at atotal of 74 million pounds in 2018.
(11:14):
Money. Or Jenny Wood, theowner of Gloucester Old bank, who
despite a total wealth of over100 million pounds in 2018 money,
refused to spend his ownmoney, but instead chose to spend
the city of Gloucester's moneyas the mayor of the city between
1811 and 1813. Both of thesemen died with extreme wealth accumulated,
(11:36):
but in the case of Jemmy Wood,his coffin was said to have been
stoned. A Christmas Carol hasbeen adapted so many times because
it's one of the greateststories ever told. Adapting it to
a modern audience is easybecause everyone loves a good redemption
arc. And when you have thedirector of Lethal Weapon and the
star of Ghostbusters, yousurely can't go wrong, right? It
(12:00):
was the mid-80s when MichaelO'Donoghue, the first head writer
of Saturday Night Live and thefirst performer to deliver a 9 on
the series, and his friendMitch Glazer, a former journalist
who worked for Crawdaddy,Rolling Stone and Playboy and a good
friend of John Belushi, teamedup to adapt A Christmas Carol for
the modern at the time 80saudience. In 1977, Glazer had been
(12:24):
the first journalist topublish a cover story on John Belushi,
and he jumped at the chancewhen Belushi and his friend Dan Aykroyd
asked him to write a movie forthem. That movie was never made,
but the experience of bothMichael o'Donoghue and Mitch Glazer
would link to them beingtapped to write Scrooge. And surprisingly,
(12:44):
their knowledge of SNL and thevague actors who worked at SNL in
the 80s made setting acontemporary adaptation of A Christmas
Carol in the cutthroat worldof TV executives make complete sense.
And while the script wentthrough countless revisions, the
solid source material made itsomething special. But the question
remained how to end it. In away honest to Frank Cross and the
(13:06):
decade in which it was set.They'd both been living in New York
city for over 18 years andthey noticed that every year on Christmas
Eve, the city would bedifferent somehow. People would be
happier. They'd have more of aspring in their step, a smile on
their face, relishing theholiday spirit. New York City on
Christmas Eve was for allintents and purposes a miracle. It
(13:31):
wasn't a cheesy Hallmarkending. It wasn't overly sentimental
or manipulative. It washonest, heartfelt emotion with an
edge. And being written by SNLveterans who were friends with SNL
veterans meant they had eyeson an SNL veteran to play their lead
character. And after snl, BillMurray became a movie star in his
(13:52):
own right, thanks toCaddyshack in 1980, Stripes in 1981
and Tootsie in 1982. It wasGhostbusters in 1984 though that
made Bill Murray an a listerafter Ghostbusters became overwhelming
and a movie he made the sameyear called the Razor's Edge flopped.
Bill Murray took a selfimposed hiatus from acting, only
(14:14):
returning for a cameo inLittle Shop of horrors in 1986. He
lived in Europe for six monthsand came back to some scripts after
that and just didn't thinkthey were good enough, so he just
didn't do them. He receivedthe script for Scrooge two years
into his four year downtime.But Murray elected to wait. When
(14:34):
the desire to performreturned, he returned to the Scrooge
script and reworked it withGlazer and o'. Donoghue. And by that
I mean he literally threw theold script out and they rebuilt it
from scratch. He took aromance that had been removed from
an early draft and added moreto it, building up the character
of Claire Phillips. He wantedto do more with Frank Cross's family,
(14:56):
so they added more familyscenes, along with the character
of Grace and her familybecoming important to the plot, too.
Bill Murray is an actor knownfor his comedy and his improv. But
also, taking a hiatus fromacting at the peak of his career
meant that his return toacting needed to be something really
good. It needed to be thereason for his return. The idea of
(15:19):
making A Christmas Carol andthe character of Ebenezer Scrooge
funny wasn't going to be easy,but it was something he knew he could
do. And the promise of a $6million salary was enough for him
to return to. The idea beingthat audiences would pay the big
bucks to see Bill Murray, tosee him in a Christmas movie, and
(15:39):
to see him as, quote, unquote,Scrooge. The irony of Murray waiting
four years would also lead toa delay in filming the Ghostbusters
sequel, which then had to waittill Murray finished his commitments
on Scrooge. But then, whenMurray was ready, the script for
Ghostbusters 2 wasn't. But tobe honest, those Ghostbusters movies
probably deserve episodes oftheir own one day. And if you're
(16:02):
wondering, no, I never havegone for Ghostbusters 1 or 2 on this
podcast, that is somethingthat I probably need to change. Richard
Donner was just coming off theincredibly successful Lethal Weapon,
also a Christmas movie. That'sepisode 279 of this podcast. But
he was mostly known forSuperman and the omen in the 70s
and the Goonies in the early80s. Getting Richard Donner as the
(16:24):
director would have been a bigdeal at the time. And Donner was
interested in the script. SoBill Murray took Richard Donner out
for drinks to see if theywould get along, and they did. And
so Richard Donner joined theproject, and it was greenlit by Paramount.
A Richard Donner moviestarring Bill Murray. Again, what
could go wrong? You'll seewhere I'm going with this. This was
(16:47):
an 80s studio comedy, and itwas budgeted at a cost of $32 million.
Nowadays, that's not really alot of money. However, just to put
it into perspective, BladeRunner cost $30 million in 1982.
Indiana Jones and the Templeof Doom cost $28 million in 1984.
(17:09):
Even the most expensive movieof 1988, at the time the most expensive
movie ever made, Rambo 3, cost$58 million. Scrooged was mostly
filmed on sets, but those setswere elaborate. They used stage 29
at Paramount Studios in LosAngeles for the scenes in Frank Cross's
(17:29):
office, Frank Cross's bedroom,and the film set for A Christmas
Carol. So this was a fairlylavish production for the time and
an incredibly lavishproduction for a studio comedy. But
then there was the peopleproblem. Richard Donner had never
worked with anyone quite likeBill Murray, and he wrote, ring,
Direct Bill Murray. You justlet him be Bill Murray. One of Donner's
(17:53):
famous quotes about workingwith him on this movie was, quote,
you don't direct Billy, youpull him back. He added, quote, Billy
really became an actor to meduring Scrooge. I had always thought
of him as an entertainer. Now,having worked with him, I could see
him playing a heavy. He's agood enough actor. You give him a
(18:14):
platform, make him ascomfortable as possible, and he comes
at you from every direction.He did for me. Filming was long.
Murray's improvisational stylemeant he wanted takes to be one and
done. He wanted his dialogueto be spontaneous. He'd worked with
Mitch Glazer and MichaelO'Donaghue on snl. He trusted them
(18:34):
and he wanted to follow hisown process. Donner had his own way
of doing things. He wantedlots of takes, wanted Murray in full
Murray mode. Murray wouldlater say, quote, he kept telling
me to do things louder,louder, louder. I think he was deaf,
unquote. It was becoming clearboth men had different visions for
(18:54):
Scrooged. And Scrooged was adifficult movie for Bill Murray.
He didn't have the luxury ofplaying in an ensemble like Ghostbusters.
He was the sole star of themovie and had the responsibility
of carrying an entire movie onhis shoulders. Despite a big name
supporting cast includingKaren Allen, Bobcat Goldthwait, John
(19:15):
Glover and Robert Mitchum,Murray had quite a bit of the say
on who was cast in the movie,including three of his brothers in
various roles, as I've alreadysaid, and his friend, singer songwriter
David Johansson, the leadsinger of the New York Dolls. As
the Ghost of Christmas Past.He was even the one who persuaded
Robert Mitchum to join themovie. After Mitchum initially turned
(19:36):
the role down. Bill Murraywould admit afterwards that the filming
of the movie was a miserableexperience for him for several reasons.
Thankfully, decades later, hewould look back at the experience
fondly. But then the passageof time tends to change opinions.
Murray's experiences workingwith Richard Donner were one thing,
but his experiences workingwith Carol Kane were another. Kane's
(20:00):
Ghost of Christmas Present wasa beautiful, dainty ballerina fairy,
but wouldn't pull her puncheswhen it came to dealing With Frank
Cross, quite literally. It wasBill Murray's idea for the scenes
to be physical between the twocharacters and for hers to not hold
back from it. And because ofit, Kane would become quite emotional
for how violent her characterwas being. The role was physically
(20:22):
demanding for both actors,with Kane punching, pinching and
hitting Frank with a toaster.When she pulled Bill Murray's lip,
it really pulled his lips fromhis gums, injuring him and pausing
filming for a few days. Kanewould often break down on set, spending
20 minutes crying beforefilming could resume. And Bill Murray's
wasn't the only real injuryeither. When Frank is startled by
(20:46):
what he thinks is the Ghost ofChristmas Future, he elbows his secretary
Grace in the jaw. And BillMurray did accidentally hit Alfre
Woodard in the face. CarolKane's scenes would feature a ballet
dance, and she trained forweeks to learn the dance, knowing
that a real ballerina would bedoubling for her. She showed J. Michael
Riva, the film's art director,her dance at the studio and he started
(21:09):
laughing hysterically. Katetried so hard to learn the dance
and it just turned out to bereally quite bad. So instead of having
a perfect dance double, theygot Kane to dance it for real, just
to show the character tryingto dance. Kane would graciously call
the choice by Riva and RichardDonner courageous and creative. She
(21:29):
would have fond memories ofworking with Murray. Him, probably
not so much. In a 1988 NATimes interview, John Glover, who
played Brice, said he basedhis character on TV producer Don
Ohlmeyer, one of America'smost well known TV producers and
the former president of NBC'sWest coast division. Almayer actually
(21:51):
fired Norm MacDonald fromSaturday Night Live in early 1998,
a move that was widelybelieved to have been motivated by
MacDonald's refusal to stopmaking jokes at the expense of Ohlmeyer's
golfing buddy, O.J. simpson.Glover visited Ohlmeyer for tips
on his performance. Quote, hetold me about what he wanted to do
(22:11):
and what he had to do to getahead. He did it ethically, but I
concentrated just on thesuccess and drive part of his character
and forgot about his ethics,unquote. At the very start of the
movie, we see exactly whatSanta thinks of terrorists as the
Night the Reindeer Died playsout. Originally, Lee Marvin was cast
as Santa Claus, but He died inAugust 1987 during pre production.
(22:35):
Lee Manger's action hero rolewas originally written for Chuck
Norris, but reportedly MelGibson was also considered and Richard
Donner obviously had the guyon speed dial. After Lethal Weapon,
everyone was Attracted to themovie because of its great script.
But there ended up being a lotof improvisation on set. Scenes were
planned, but actors wereencouraged to improvise and often
(22:57):
scenes were rewritten on set.They also filmed on location in New
York in the middle of winterin 1987, often starting at 5am when
it was bitterly cold.O'Donoghue would estimate that only
40% of his and Glazer'soriginal script ended on screen.
There was a lot of materialshot over the three and a half months
(23:19):
of filming between December1987 and March 1988. Many scenes
that were filmed but havenever seen the light of day, not
even an extended edition ordirector's cut. The fake snow they
used on set allegedly causedBill Murray to cough up blood. And
when it came to the movie'sfinal redemption speech, o'Donoghue
and Glazer wrote a moving,inspired speech for Frank Cross.
(23:42):
They desperately wanted BillMurray to read the speech as written
in the script. But Murrayinstead went off on a big, emotional,
completely unscripted tirade.The casting crew thought that he
was having a nervous breakdownas gave him a mini ovation at the
end of his frenzied speech.But after the applause died down,
o'Donoghue voiced hisdispleasure, only to be punched in
(24:05):
the arm by Richard Donner.Murray's performance during the closing
credits to get the cinemaaudiences to participate in the sing
song were also completely adlibbed. But fundamentally, this is
a movie about spirits. Andspeaking of spirits, this is also
the last movie appearance fora couple of people. Oscar winner
John Houseman died the monthbefore the movie was released. Oscar
(24:28):
nominee Anne Ramsay died a fewmonths before its release. Unit production
manager and executive producerRoger M. Rothstein and art department
set construction coordinatorRobert Scaife also passed away shortly
after filming. This moviewould also be the last on screen
appearance for the Solid GoldDancers. Not that they died, but
their TV show was cancelled inJuly of 1988. Scrooged is dedicated
(24:53):
to Robert Scaife, Anne Ramsayand Roger M. Rothstein. And this
is where I segue into theobligatory Keanu reference of this
episode. And if you don't knowone of those, it's why I try and
link every meal that I featurewith Keanu Reeves for no reason other
than he is no Scrooge and heis the best of men. But this was
actually incredibly difficultbecause trying to link Keanu Reeves
(25:15):
to a character like EbenezerScrooge or Frank Cross is not easy.
I actually found a movie thatcame out this year in 2025, a movie
directed by Aziz Ansari,starring Seth Rogen, Aziz Ansari,
Kiki Palmer, Sandra oh andKeanu Reeves. It's a movie called
(25:36):
Good Fortune and the reasonwhy I'm mentioning Good Fortune is
that I found a review thatdescribed it as a character having
a Christmas Carol styleawakening as supernatural intervention
shows him what a rich, selfishScrooge he's become. Keanu Reeves
plays an angel in the moviebecause of course he plays an angel
(25:56):
in the movie. I have not seenGood Fortune, but it is the easiest
way to link Keanu Reeves to acharacter like Frank Cross and a
movie that's based on AChristmas Carol. The score for Scrooge
was composed by Danny Elfmanand this was before Batman and Edward
Scissorhands made him one ofHollywood's go to composers. Scrooged
(26:18):
was Elfman's first big budgetHollywood score and had to mix wildly
broad comedy, holiday cheer,gothic horror and emotional drama.
The song Put a Little Love inyoun Heart was released as a single
by Annie Lennox and Al Green.The studio did some pre release audience
screenings for Scrooge insummer 1988 and those screenings
(26:40):
were positive, with 93% ofviewers rating the film as very good,
the highest rating ParamountPictures had received at the time.
Critics screenings nearest therelease, however, were met with mixed
responses and Scrooge wasreleased on 23rd November 1988, the
same week as the Land BeforeTime and Oliver and Company, but
(27:03):
also six days into the week soit opened at fifth to the Land Before
Times. First, it jumped tonumber one in its second week with
the fourth highest openingweekend of the year. It would stay
in the top 10 over Christmasand into the new year. Over eight
weeks on its budget of $32million, Scrooge would gross $60.3
million in the US and $40million internationally for a total
(27:27):
worldwide gross of $100.3million. Not a flop by any means,
but still considered adisappointment considering the star
power. Scrooge would laterfind more success in the home video
market and on TV. And on 31stOctober 2006, Paramount Home Entertainment
announced it would bereleasing Scrooge in an all new you'll
(27:50):
Love it edition on dvd, whichwould feature commentary by director
Richard Donner and featurettescalled Christmas to Remember, updating
Ebenezer, Bringing the Ghostto Life, the Look of Scrooge and
on the set with Bill MurrayParts 1 and 2. Paramount promoted
the you'll Love it edition aslate as September of 2006, but it
(28:13):
miraculously disappeared andwas never released. Scrooge was released
on Blu Ray in November 2011with none of those additional featurettes.
But then the 4K version ofScrooge, which was released on 7
November 2023 for the film's35th anniversary, contained the missing
(28:33):
commentary by Richard Donnerand the featurettes A Christmas to
Remember, Updating Ebenezer,Bringing the Ghosts to Life, the
Look of Scrooge, and On theSet with Bill Murray, parts one and
two. So we did get the you'lllove it edition eventually. Now I
mentioned mixed reviews, andthis is something that has plagued
(28:53):
Fringe for many years. Itcurrently has a rating of 71% on
rotten tomatoes, with aconsensus of Scrooge gets by with
Bill Murray and a dash ofholiday spirit. Although it's hampered
by a markedly conflicted toneand an undercurrent of mean spiritedness,
contemporary critics seem tothink of it more positively than
(29:16):
those at the time. Criticalreviews in 1988 were mixed, calling
it unsettling, cynical anddark in tone. Movie critic Roger
Ebert said that it was theworst film adaptation of A Christmas
Carol that he'd ever seen. Imean, it's not the best Rog, but
it's certainly not the worst,he would say, quote, scrooge is one
(29:40):
of the most disquieting,unsettling films to come along in
quite some time. It wasobviously intended as a comedy, but
there is little comic aboutit, and indeed the movie's overriding
emotions seem to be pain andanger. This entire production seems
to be in dire need of visitsfrom the ghosts of Christmas. The
Hollywood Reporter said thatthe story was uproarious and sometimes
(30:03):
vitriolic, labeling it ascathing satire of the entertainment
industry that was a wild andwoolly holiday feast that should
scrape off the competition.Jonathan Rosenbaum called Scrooge
an ironic film for seeminglycondemning the commercialization
of Christmas while alsocapitalizing on it taking the moral
message of A Christmas Carolwithout sacrificing its yuppie priorities
(30:26):
for an instant. The movie wasalso disavowed by writer Michael
O'Donoghue before his death in1994. He died when he was only 54
years of age. He would say,and I'm using different words here,
quote, we wrote an effingmasterpiece. We wrote It Happened
One Night. We wrote a storythat could make you laugh and cry.
(30:48):
You would have wanted to shareit with your grandchildren every
effing Christmas for the next100 years. The finished film was
A piece of unadulterated,unmitigated S word. Michael o'Donoghue
was not mincing his words.Scrooge would be nominated for Best
makeup at the 61st AcademyAwards, but it was lose to Beetlejuice,
(31:11):
which is another Danny Elfmanscore on that one. I mean, it's no
the Muppet Christmas Carol,but it's decent enough. And let me
make it completely clear. LikeJingle all the Way the last episode,
I have zero emotionalconnection to this movie. I like
it, but I don't love it. Ilove the setting. Like Jingle all
the Way, about thecommercialization of Christmas, a
(31:33):
modern take on A ChristmasCarol. It is a story that transcends
time. But while Bill Murray isthe star, he's also somewhat its
downfall. It's hard to take asincere redemption arc seriously
when you have Bill Murray adlibbing jokes. Frank Cross is not
an easy character to like.That's the point. But his redemption
(31:54):
struggles because of BillMurray, because he's an actor you
really want to like, even whenhe plays deplorable people. But the
difference between PeterVenkman, a slime bull ghostbuster
who flirts with young women,and Frank Cross, who literally fires
someone for voicing anopinion, doesn't care. An old lady
has died, tells his secretaryshe can't take time off for a doctor's
(32:14):
appointment for her child.Murray is both the best thing about
this movie and the worst.Frank Cross, I fear, might be a bit
too mean spirited. He needs todo more to be redeemed. Ebenezer
Scrooge may be a miserablegit, but I fully believe Michael
Caine was redeemed in theMuppet Christmas Carol. I believe
(32:35):
he learned the error of hisways. I don't believe it quite so
much for Frank Cross, mostlybecause even though he gave Elliot
Loudermilk his job back with araise, the guy still holds up a live
production team hostage with agun. Because redemption arc in real
life, Frank Cross is gonnalose his job and Elliot Loudermilk
(32:57):
is going to jail. I don'tthink the central romance helps much,
but it does help. But hetreats Karen Allen's Claire awfully.
Actually, not once do I thinkthey're suited for each other. She
makes him a better person, buttruthfully, he needs to want to become
a better person. He rejectsher multiple times before he coerces
(33:19):
and compels her to join him infront of the cameras, finally choosing
her. And after protesting, shereluctantly obliges. But it's his
choice, not hers, to do this.So publicly. And I guess I'm just
not a fan of this sort ofpower dynamic relationship. Although
I will say her inclusion inthe movie is better than no inclusion
(33:39):
at all. And Karen Allen is, asalways, completely delightful as
Karen Allen always is. Donnaand Murray did butt heads during
filming, but up until hisdeath in 2021, Donna praised working
with him, which is goodbecause that's the healthiest, albeit
sometimes the hardest way tocome out of a scenario where two
creatives are literally tryingto make the best possible product
(34:02):
in their own minds. And I dogenuinely believe that they are both
trying to make this the bestpossible version of A Christmas Carol
that they could. The trueredemption arc of this movie sits
with one character. The onecharacter I believe in, the one character
that made me cry like a babyat the end. And he didn't even need
redeeming, he just needed tobelieve in something again. And that
(34:26):
was young Calvin Cooley.Honestly, that little boy saying,
God bless us everyone. Toquote the Ghost of Christmas Past
Niagara Falls, Calvin is thetidy Tim, reimagined as a young black
boy whose affliction isn't aterminal illness, but having seen
his father get murdered. It'sheartbreaking stuff. And for a wealthy
(34:49):
white man to not only see thepoverty, but of his African American
secretary's large family, butalso show empathy towards them not
only feels progressive for thelate 80s, but also feels progressive
for a character like FrankCross. And I actually really like
that about him because heshowed that empathy early on in the
movie. He didn't wait untilthe end. And that is one great thing
(35:12):
that I really loved about thechoices that they made for that character.
Scrooged does have a message,but it's so muddled because it can
never seem to decide whetherTV is good or bad. Frank Cross is
on TV telling people not towatch TV but to spend time with their
families instead. So is TV aninherently awful business or is it
(35:36):
the source of fond familymemories? And maybe that's due to
the time the movie was beingmade. With the global stock markets
crashing In October of 1987,there was a general upset in the
US at the time, and maybe thatis why it feels so muddled. And yet
Scrooge still more or lessworks, and credit must go mostly
(35:57):
to Charles Dickens. Maybe BillMurray looks so unhappy because he
actually was. Maybe this isjust the ultimate method acting.
I did laugh a little at thesupposed scenes of the past where
they just stuck a long wig onhim because he still looks the same
age. It sounds like I'M reallypushing back on this movie but there
is a lot that I like about it.The ghost of Christmas Future is
(36:19):
legit terrifying, as he shouldbe. Him coming over the TV screens
is a truly great scene that Iwish I could have found out more
about, but there was simplynothing on the Internet that I could
find about the ghost ofChristmas Future. The soles in his
chest, so nice. Frank had tolook twice. I really love that effect.
I think it's absolutelyterrific. I really like the Night
(36:42):
the Reindeer Died sketch. I'mpretty sure that's also the plot
for Violent Night, which is avery fun Christmas movie as well.
This is not supposed to be forchildren and a more modern grown
up interpretation of AChristmas Carol is actually very
welcome. The themes are prettyuniversal. Goodwill towards all men,
greed, forgiveness, regret,love, family, friendship, charity,
(37:06):
mercy, kindness. It can all beboiled down to one simple idea. Be
a good person who dedicatestheir life to making the lives of
others better. The productiondesign is great. The costume and
character work for the ghostsis great. The Danny Elfman score
is great. Alfra Woodard isgreat, as she always is. The fake
(37:26):
snow was probably toxic, sonot so great. Carol Kane got to beat
down our Bill Murray for abit. A Christmas Carol, literally.
The makeup making John Forsythlook like he just crawled out of
a grave is great. In manyways, this movie was ahead of its
time and it is incrediblyunderrated, possibly even by me.
(37:46):
Frank's trainer for AChristmas Carol is so ridiculous,
so violent and so depraved, itmay be something a TV network of
today would use to get peoplewatching the King's Speech with screaming
and explosions. I'd watch it,but while I admittedly merely like
this movie, many, many peoplelove it because it's so unique. It
(38:08):
found new life on VHS and DVDand tv. It's become more beloved
as the years have passed. Ifyou love A Christmas Carol and you
love Bill Murray at his peak,there is a lot to love here. In 2015,
IGM named it the 11th bestholiday movie of all time. In 2016,
Empire listed Scrooge as theseventh best Christmas film, and
(38:30):
in 2017, Timeout andConsequence of Sound listed it as
respectively, the 12th bestand 23rd best Christmas film. That
same year, Collider named itthe fifth best adaptation of A Christmas
Carol. And yes, I guess I findit hard to not compare it to the
Muppet Christmas Carol, whichis the best adaptation of the story.
(38:51):
That is on me. But if we cantake anything from this movie, it's
that Christmas Eve is the onenight of the year when we all act
a little nicer. We smile alittle easier, we cheer a little
more. For a couple of hoursout of the whole year, we are the
people that we always hoped wewould be. Except we should be that
365 days of the year. Andhopefully after the events of this
(39:13):
movie, Frank Cross did Butit's great that you've listened to
this episode. Now more thanever, it is important to remember
the true meaning of Christmas.Don't miss Richard Donner's immortal
classic Scrooged. Your lifemight just depend on it. Thank you
for listening. As always, Iwould love to hear your thoughts
on Scrooged and thank you foryour continued support of this podcast.
(39:37):
If you wanna show your supportin multiple different ways, you could
leave a rating or reviewwherever you found this podcast.
You could tell your friendsand family about this podcast or
you can find me and follow meon social media and you can share
the podcast that way. I am atVerbal Diorama. You can share posts
like posts, comment on posts.It all helps really to get the word
(39:59):
out there and to hopefully getother people to know this podcast
and know what I've been doing.I genuinely love doing this podcast
and anything you could do tohelp would be so appreciated. If
you like this episode onScrooged, you should also watch and
listen to the episode on theMuppet Christmas Carol, which is
episode 185. Genuinely one ofmy favorite Christmas movies of all
(40:23):
time. I will be watching itagain with the kids this year because
my love for the MuppetChristmas Carol knows no bounds.
It is in my opinion thesuperior adaptation of A Christmas
Carol, but as I said, AChristmas Carol is such a timeless
story that it just works witheverything. Whether you are a yuppie
TV executive in the 80s orwhether you have no cheeses for us.
(40:45):
Mises, as always, give mefeedback. Let me know what you think
of my recommendation. It isthe best one. It just is. The next
episode is the final episodeof the year on this podcast and it
is a very British Christmasfavorite. No, I'm very proud of the
listeners that I have in theUSA and I'm grateful to know some
(41:08):
incredible people over in theUS and Americans tend to obsess over
A Christmas Story. I didn'teven know that movie existed until
a few years ago because itdidn't really make much of a splash
over here. It's not really amovie that we watch or we talk about
because here in the UK we HaveSanta Claus the Movie. It is a movie
(41:29):
that came out two years afterA Christmas Story, a lavish, expensive
film about the origins ofSanta Claus. There's also somehow
about how evil corporationsmake money from Christmas. But it
is a British festive cultclassic. Every year you can guarantee
it'll be on around Christmas.In fact, it already has been here
(41:50):
in the uk. But while it was ahuge production, it's also a bit
of a notorious flop. So joinme next week for the history and
legacy of Santa Claus theMovie. That episode is due out the
very day the big man himselfactually sets off with all of our
toys. So hopefully he's gotsome headphones for the journey to
(42:13):
listen to his own story. Ifyou enjoy what I do for this podcast
and you have some spare changeand you want to support an indie
podcaster who does literallyall of this, everything, on her own,
I have no assistance. I haveno one helping. I have no one doing
research. Me, I have to do itall by myself. And it's really hard
sometimes. It's really tough.But if you enjoy and you get something
(42:37):
out of these episodes and youhave the means to help, you're under
no obligation, of course. Butthere are a couple of ways you can
help if you have the means to.You can make a one off donation@verbaldiorama.com
tips or you can subscribe tothe patreon@verbaldiorama.com patreon
and all money made goes backinto this podcast by paying for things
(42:59):
like software subscriptionsand website hosting and sometimes
even new equipment as well. Ahuge thank you to the amazing patrons
of this podcast to Simon,Laurel, Derek, Kat, Andy, Mike, Luke,
Michael, Scott, Brendan, Ian,Lisa, Sam, Jackson, Dave, Stuart,
Nicholas. So Kev, Heather,Danny, Stu, Brett, Philip M. Xenos,
(43:22):
Sean, Rhino, Philip K, Adam,Elaine, Kyle, Aaron and Connor. If
you want to get in touch, youcan email verbal diorama gmail.com
you can also go to the websiteverbal diorama.com and you can fill
out the contact form. You cansay hello, you can give feedback,
or you can give suggestions,or you can just say, I listened to
(43:44):
this episode and I watched themovie and this is what I thought
of the movie. I wouldgenuinely love to hear from you.
You can also DM me on socialmedia as well. I really love to hear
from people and I always tryto respond as quickly as possible.
I'm hugely grateful to you allfor your support. And finally
(46:14):
Bye.
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