February 6, 2025 • 54 mins
Shrek and Fiona, fresh off their 'happily ever after', are invited to a Royal Ball in celebration of their marriage. It's being held, far far away in the kingdom of Far Far Away, by Fiona's parents, the King and Queen of Far Far Away, aka Mum and Dad. But hold on to your boots (Puss), because Shrek, being an actual ogre, faces a bit of a challenge fitting in with the royal family—especially when they expected the dashing Prince Charming, instead of a swamp-dwelling ogre.
Shrek 2 builds on its predecessor, exploring themes of self-acceptance and the chaos of familial relationships, giving us more depth, elaborating on the story we’ve seen, and carrying it on naturally. He’s married the princess, now he has to meet the parents.
Shrek 2 is seen by many as a perfect sequel. Not a perfect movie, but a perfect sequel. This is also a movie with heart, with a great central villain who’s clearly been in it for the long run, and all Fairy Godmother wants is her boy on the throne. Shrek getting a sequel was obvious, but wait, isn't this series making fun of Disney constantly churning out mediocre sequels? It's a good job this one is actually decent, right?
But really, aren't we all just here for Puss in Boots? Just look at him, in his little boots! Awwwww!
And where have all the good men gone?
I would love to hear your thoughts on Shrek 2 !
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(03:33):
Hi, everyone. I'm Em. Andwelcome to verbal diorama. Episode
286 Shrek 2 Shrek 2 Shrek 2Shrak 2 Shrek 2 Shrek 2 this is the
(03:55):
podcast that's all about thehistory and legacy of movies yous
Know and movies yous don'twhere your fallen tears have called
to me, so here comes my sweetremedy. I know what every princess
needs for her to live lifehappily with Just a welcome to Verbal
Diorama to all brand newlisteners of this podcast. Welcome
(04:19):
back regular returninglisteners. Whether you've come all
the way from far far away oryou just live locally, thank you
for being here. Thank you forchoosing to listen to this podcast.
I'm so happy to have you herefor the history and legacy of of
Shrek 2 and as part of thatwelcome to Animation Season 2025.
(04:39):
If this is your first timevisiting Animation Season 2025, there
have been four moviespreceding this episode. There have
been episodes on Turning Red,Encanto, Paranorman, and the Simpsons
Movie. And this is the fifthannual animation season. It is a
celebration of of animation inall of its perfect, wonderful forms,
(05:05):
whether that is traditional 2Dhand drawn animation, stop motion
animation, or CG animation andanimation season on this podcast
has featured some of thegreatest and most well known animation
studios of all time likeLeica, Aardman, Disney Dreamworks,
Sony Animation, Pixar Studio,Ghibli, Cartoon Saloon, even studios
(05:29):
that are no longer with uslike Fox Animation, Blue Sky Studios
and Don Blue Studios.Animation. It's not just for children
animation. It's not a genre.Animation is the perfect art form.
It is capable of depictinganything and anyone. Whether you
are an ogre, whether you are aprincess, whether you are a donkey,
(05:53):
there are no limitations. Youcan get away with anything in Animation
and Animation Season. That'swhy it's here. It's here to highlight
these incredible animatedfilms that you may know that you
may not, or that you may havediscounted for whatever reason. But
animation is so important andit's one of those art forms that
(06:16):
I absolutely love talkingabout on this podcast. So I hope
that you will indulge in someof the other animated treasures this
animation season and I hopethat you will enjoy this episode.
Huge thanks to everyone wholistens to this podcast and really
who has continued to listenand support this podcast. This podcast
has been going six years, veryalmost very soon. It is the sixth
(06:39):
birthday of this podcast. I'mgoing to be talking about that a
little bit later on in thisepisode. But this podcast has been
going for that long. It wouldnot have been going for that long
without the support of thelisteners of this podcast. So I am
so grateful to you all.Whether this is your first episode,
whether this is your 100thepisode, it doesn't matter. I'm so
grateful to you and I'm sograteful to you for listening. And
(07:02):
it's been over 200 episodessince I did an episode on the original
Shrek. This means that thisparticular episode holds the record
for the biggest gap between afirst and second movie on this podcast.
Shrek was episode 79. This is286. There's no particular reason
(07:26):
why, Just that there's a lotof other movies to get through, I
guess. But it is widelyconsidered by many to be one of the
best sequels ever. And goodthings come to those who wait. You
don't have to travel to FarFar Away to get to this episode.
Well, this fairy godmother,though, is all in it for herself.
(07:48):
Here's the trailer for Shrek 2.
(10:12):
Once upon a time, in a kingdomfar, far away, the King and Queen
were blessed with a beautifulbaby. Girl. And throughout the land
everyone was happy. Until thesun went down and they saw that their
daughter was cursed with afrightful enchantment that took hold
each and every night.Desperate, they sought the help of
(10:33):
a fairy godmother who had themlock the young princess away in a
tower, there to await the kissof the handsome Prince Charming.
It was he who would chance theperilous journey through blistering
cold and scorching desert,travelling for many days and nights,
risking life and limb to reachthe Dragon's Keep. For he was the
(10:54):
bravest and most handsome inall the land. And it was destiny
that his kiss would break thedreaded curse. He alone would climb
to the highest room of thetallest tower to enter the princess's
chambers, cross the room toher sleeping silhouette, pull back
the gossamer curtains to findthat she's on a honeymoon with her
(11:15):
new ogre husband. Let's runthrough the cast. We have Mike Myers
as Shrek, Eddie Murphy asDonkey, Cameron Diaz as Princess
Fiona, Julie Andrews as QueenLillian, Antonio Banderas as Puss
in Boots, John Cleese as KingHarold, Rupert Everett as Prince
(11:35):
Charming, Jennifer Saunders asFairy Godmother, Joan Rivers as Joan
Rivers and Larry King asDoris, the ugly stepsister. Shrek
2 has a screenplay by AndrewAdamson, Joe Stillman, J. David Stern
and David N. Weiss. A story byAndrew Adamson was directed by Andrew
(11:57):
Adamson, Kelly Asbury andConrad Vernon and was based on Shrek
by William Stig. So I thinkit's easy to call the Original Shrek
a 2000s phenomenon. Itsubverted the fairy tales that we'd
been spoon fed since children.It revolutionized animation. It won
the first ever Oscar for BestAnimated feature and basically became
(12:20):
a thousand meme generators. Sodespite it making fun of fairy tales
and specifically Disney moviesand their propensity to generate
sequels to those movies,sequel to Shrek was inevitable. It
was everything Disney andPixar weren't. It was rude, it had
farts, it made sex jokes andhad pop culture references. It was
(12:42):
the refreshing alternative toDisney, and in many ways it was Jeffrey
Katzenberg's middle finger tothe studio he previously called home.
Katzenberg had managed theacquisition of Pixar and then left
Disney to create DreamWorksalongside Steven Spielberg and David
Geffen. There was a wellpublicized feud between DreamWorks
(13:03):
and Pixar with Katzenbergwanting ants to beat a bug's life
into cinemas on purpose. Shrekwas the ultimate fu, with Lord Farquaad
reportedly modelled on Disneychief Michael Eisner. Let's Just
say Eisner and Katzenbergweren't the best of buddies. Shrek
cemented DreamWorks as theanimation studio of the future, and
(13:26):
while Disney's animationdepartment was floundering, no pun
intended, Little Mermaid Shrekwent up against Atlantis, the lost
Empire at the box office, andwith a six week advantage, Shrek
just decimated thecompetition. But the story of Atlantis
is due its very own episodepause for dramatic effect and there
(13:49):
were more tales to be toldfrom the Shrek universe as well as
more money. The original Shrekmade just under half a billion dollars
in 2001 and so it meantgetting the cast and creatives back
for a sequel. Director ofShrek, Andrew Adamson would return
to do the sequel but also cowrite the story. After Ted Elliott
(14:10):
and Terry Rossio, thescreenwriters and producers at Shrek,
left the project citingcreative differences. Adamson would
base his story on the 1967comedy drama Guess who's Coming to
Dinner, starring SpencerTracy, Katharine Hepburn and Sidney
Poitier, about a young whitewoman who brings her new fiance home
to meet her parents. But hernew fiance just happens to be an
(14:32):
African American man.Interracial marriage had historically
been prohibited in many USstates, and the movie was one of
the few to portray aninterracial marriage in a positive
light. Six months prior to themovie's release on 12 June 1967,
interracial marriage was stillillegal in 17 states. In Shrek 2,
(14:53):
the story similarly centersaround meeting the in laws with Princess
Fiona bringing Shrek home tobeat her royal parents in Far Far
Away. Like the parents inGuess who's Coming to Dinner, King
Harold and Queen Lillian,particularly Harold, struggle to
accept their daughter's choiceof husband, in this case because
Shrek is an ogre rather thanthe prince they expected. But naturally
(15:15):
the racial metaphor is stillthere. Jo Stillman, one of the writers
from Shrek, did return to helppen the script, and joining the movie's
writing team would bescreenwriting duo J. David Stern
and David Henry Weiss. Therewere initial plans for the return
of Lord Farquhar. Despitebecoming dragon food in the first
movie, the idea was that hewould return as a ghost to haunt
(15:38):
Shrek and seek revenge. WithJohn Lithgow reprising his role,
the idea was instead used forShrek 4D, the simulator ride at Universal
Studios. A new storycontinuing the fairy tale of Shrek
and Fiona straight after theirwedding was proposed instead. Again,
no pun intended, which wouldmean the return of all three primary
(15:59):
cast members, Mike Myers,Eddie Murphy and Cameron Diaz on
the first movie, the threeactors deferred their salaries and
were paid scale, butnegotiated deals that included a
percentage of the film'sprofits, which significantly increased
their total earnings givenShrek's massive box office success.
After Shrek became a huge hit,Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy and Cameron
(16:22):
Diaz negotiated an upfrontpayment of $10 million each for voicing
a sequel to the film. Joiningthe cast would be a whole host of
British names, including JulieAndrews, John Cleese, Jennifer Saunders,
and Rupert Everett and AntonioBanderas. Also joining as one of
the greatest characters in theentire franchise. Puss in Boots would
(16:45):
be so integral to thefranchise that I'm certain there's
a Mandela effect going on herebecause he was in Shrek, right? He's
just been here this wholetime. I don't believe that Shrek
exists without Puss in Boots.He's that important to this universe.
He'd also be the character toget the spin offs, one of which would
(17:07):
be outstanding, just FYI. Pussin Boots the Last Wish Very almost
got a spot on this animationseason, but I felt like I needed
to give Shrek 2 its final duesand all of the characters would make
sense in this story. PrinceCharming was the prince on his way
to rouse Fiona with FairyGodmother making a deal with the
king who already owed her formaking his happily ever after come
(17:31):
true. Just how much the FairyGodmother did actually do is unknown,
but it is likely she couldhave also caused Fiona's curse in
the first place. Mike Myerswas a huge Monty Python fan, and
so having John Cleese in themovie was a particular dream come
true for him. While most ofthe cast recorded their lines separately,
John Cleese and Julie Andrewsrecorded theirs as the King and Queen
(17:55):
together. Doing the animationonce again was the team at PDI DreamWorks,
and while the animation wasenhanced across the board, it would
also have to be updated toinclude these new characters, including
Pussing Boots, and he broughtabout new challenges. The original
inspiration for the characterwas Andrew Adamson's cat, who was
(18:15):
gray. But having a gray catnext to a gray donkey wouldn't work,
so Puss was instead modeled onvisual effects supervisor Ken Bielenberg's
orange tabby cat. Theanimators researched extensively
studying videos of real catsto understand their natural movements
and behaviors. They paidparticular attention to how cats
(18:35):
move their bodies duringdifferent actions walking, running,
pouncing, and even subtlemovements like ear twitches and tail
swishes. The team frequentlybrought in real cats to the studio
for live observation sessionsand as a podcast with two feline
producers, I can tell you thatEvie and Peggy are well represented
in Puss. For the charactersbipedal movements, the animators
(18:58):
had to find a careful balancebetween human and feline motion.
They created a hybrid stylethat maintained cat like grace while
allowing Puss to perform humanactions convincingly. This included
studying how a cat's spine andshoulders would adapt to upright
posture while retainingdistinctly feline characteristics.
(19:19):
The facial animation wasparticularly complex. The team developed
a detailed rig for Puss's facethat included multiple layers of
controls for his signaturecute eyes expression, sophisticated
whiskey movement systems,detailed mouth shapes for dialogue,
ear controls for emotionalexpression, fur dynamics that responded
to facial movements, andsimulated over 40,000 individual
(19:43):
hair strands on Puss's body.For the sword fighting sequences,
the animators referenced bothcat movement and traditional swashbuckling
films. This studied howlegendary screen sword fighters like
Errol Flynn moved, thenadapted these movements to work with
Puss's feline physiology. Thiscreated his distinctive fighting
style that combined cat likeagility with heroic swordplay. The
(20:07):
animation team also heavilyutilized Antonio Banderas performance
as a reference. They wouldfilm his recording sessions and study
his expressions and gestures,incorporating these human elements
into Puss's characteranimation. This helped maintain the
Spanish flair that Banderasbrought to the role while keeping
the character fundamentallyfeline. Banderas, for his part, would
(20:29):
not only record Puss'sdialogue in English, but also in
Spanish and Italian. At thetime, Banderas was on Broadway singing
every night and then recordingSessions for Shrek 2 the next morning.
So Puss's bravado ended upessentially destroying his vocal
cords. They also hadcomplications around how Pussy's
(20:49):
fur would react to his beltingcape because. Newsflash. I don't
know if you know this, butmost cats don't wear a belt or a
cape. They also had to developa simulation system to move fur out
of the way of the belt. It wasa lot easier for the Shrek 2 team
to animate fluids. Even hugevats of multicolored potions spilling
(21:11):
everywhere could be easilyachieved with new dynamic fluid engines
and directing how fluidsinteracted with characters. But with
a bigger cast for Shrek alsocame more human characters and more
realistic human characters.While Princess Fiona in the first
movie looked very naturallyhuman, subtle design changes were
(21:31):
made to her and to Shrek.Taking advantage of the enhancement
in CG animation, the rest ofthe human characters were created
with their human voice actorsin mind. With fairy godmother strongly
resembling Jennifer Saunders.One of the most difficult characters
to create was Handsome Shrekbecause he still had to resemble
Shrek but also be sexy. Theygave him strong chiseled features
(21:55):
and flowing hair, but keptsome of Mike Myers facial characteristics
to maintain a connection toShrek's personality. The design was
meant to parody the typicalPrince Charming archetype while still
making him believable as atransformed version of the character.
Myers maintained the Scottishaccent for Shrek, but with a slightly
(22:15):
more refined delivery asHandsome Shrek. Even the background
characters were remodeled fromthe original's generic design to
give them high resolutionassets, anatomically correct physiques,
textured clothing, redonehairstyles, and even skin wrinkles.
But wait, this is Hollywood. Imean, Far Far Away wrinkles aren't
(22:37):
allowed, right? But in trueShrek parody fashion, the design
of Far Far Away imitatedHollywood and Beverly Hills, but
reimagined it through amedieval fairy tale lens, mixing
medieval architecture withmodern Los Angeles culture. The Far
Far Away sign, which is adirect parody of the Hollywood sign,
(23:00):
is placed on a hillsideoverlooking the kingdom. The design
team carefully createdweathering aging effects to make
it look like it had been therefor centuries rather than decades.
The main street of Far FarAway was modeled after Rodeo Drive
in Beverly Hills, featuringmedieval versions of luxury stores
like Versacerie, Versace,Abercrombie and Witch, Abercrombie
(23:25):
and Fitch and Old Navery, OldNavy. The buildings maintained a
consistent architecturalstyle. The blended Gothic and Renaissance
elements with modern retaildesign with obviously a fire books
located on both sides of thestreet. The streets were based in
a warm golden Californiasunshine effect while also maintaining
(23:46):
the fairy tale atmosphere. Anew lighting system was implemented
which included carefulattention and to how light would
interact with differentsurfaces from cobblestone streets
to castle walls to create thefeeling of a sunny Mediterranean
climate in a fairy talesetting. They took inspiration from
15th and 16th centuryclassical paintings, including by
(24:08):
Gustav Door, the renowned 19thcentury French illustrator and engraver
who himself inspired theclassic Disney animated fairy tales.
Production designer GuillemAratos and his colleagues used a
lot more displacement andglobal illumination in obtaining
a greater realistic bouncelight. For Shrek 2, they used global
illumination for 80% of theshots, which is a proprietary renderer
(24:33):
and has been rewritten sincethe first Shrek. The King and Queen's
castle design drew inspirationfrom multiple real European castles,
but incorporated HollywoodHills mansion elements, creating
a hybrid that suggested bothancient royalty and modern celebrity.
The interior design followedthe same principle, mixing medieval
tapestries and throne roomswith modern luxury amenities. Fiona's
(24:58):
parents, Queen Lillian andKing Harold were named after Harold
and Lillian Michelson, anextraordinary couple that maybe you've
never heard of. HaroldMichelson was an Oscar nominated
production designer and artdirector working on west side Story,
the Birds and Cleopatra.Lillian Michelson was a film scholar
(25:18):
and researcher who sometimesexperienced danger doing said research.
It's said that she had tointerview drug lords and DEA agents
to have accurate material forthe movie Scarface, for example.
Lillian Michelson also builtand managed Hollywood's most famous
research library, theMichelson Cinema Research Library.
(25:40):
She made deals for the libraryto be housed with the American Film
Institute and then thePantagious Theatre. She was so passionate
about this library that thematerials contained within it were
under her almost constantwatch. Francis Ford Coppola asked
her to join ZoeTrope Studiosin 1980 and she at the library stayed
(26:01):
there till 1986 when Michelsonwas let go from the studio for financial
reasons. Dreamworks Picturesthen became the steward of the library
when Lillian Michelson retiredand in December 2020 the library
was donated to the Internetarchive. Harold Michelson died in
(26:21):
2007 at the age of 87 andLillian Michelson is currently 96
and living in the retirementcommunity set up by the Motion Picture
and Television Fund in LosAngeles. In 2017, Harold and Lillian
Michelson were given alifetime achievement award by the
American Academy of DramaticArts for their contributions, making
(26:44):
them the first behind thescenes non actors to ever receive
that award. Queen Lillian andKing Harold were named after them
in Shrek 2 as a tribute toeverything they've done for the Hollywood
film industry. And whileDragon shows up at the end of the
movie and it's discovered thather and Donkey have had quote unquote
(27:06):
mutant babies, she wasoriginally going to have a much bigger
role in the movie that whenthe potion is taken, Donkey turns
into a stallion, baby dragonwould have turned into a Pegasus.
The sequence was reportedlystoryboarded but ultimately cut from
the final film. And one of thethings that the original Schweppe
(27:27):
and this sequel do so well arethe pop culture parodies. There are
so many of them, I can'tpossibly list them all. However,
here's some very obvious ones.We have parodies of Mission Impossible
in the castle break insequence. Spider man, the upside
down kiss, Lord of the Rings,the forging of Fiona's wedding ring,
the Little Mermaid when Fionathrows an aerial lookalike into the
(27:51):
sea, Alien, the scene wherePuss emerges from Shrek's stomach,
Cops, the night chasesequence. And also the O.J. simpson
Bronco Chase. And obviouslyZorro in Puss in Boots character
and fighting style. It alsoparodies general Hollywood elements
like red carpet culture,celebrity lifestyle, awards shows,
(28:12):
and Hollywood's obsession withyouth, luxury and beauty. Here in
the uk, the Joan Rivers andLarry King characters were redubbed
with Kate Thornton andJonathan Ross, but they are never
credited for these roles. Itsimilarly doesn't make much sense
for the Joan Rivers characterbecause she is modeled on Joan Rivers.
(28:35):
The role was designedexclusively for Joan Rivers and she
is also credited on IMDb asJoan Rivers. So to not have Joan
Rivers voice, that role justdoes not work. And Joan Rivers would
be the first time that anyonewould essentially be playing themselves
in the Shrek universeexclusively to this podcast is the
(28:59):
obligatory Keanu reference. Itis part of this podcast where I try
and link the movie that I'mfeaturing with Keanu Reeves, and
it's always very difficult tolink Keanu to animation. I've always
found it really tough.However, Keanu Reeves first worked
with Princess Fiona, akaCameron Diaz in Feeling Minnesota
back in 1996, but teaming upagain next year for Jonah Hill's
(29:24):
second feature film asdirector the black comedy Outcome.
And I have to say, I'm sohappy to see Cameron Diaz back. She
has effectively been retiredfrom acting for about 10 years at
this point, and she hasrecently returned. She has obviously
just been in the Netflixaction movie Back in Action, which
is fine, she's good in it, butthe overall the movie is fine and
(29:46):
she is obviously going to bereturning in Shrek 5 as well. But
yeah, Cameron Diaz is theeasiest way to link Keanu Reeves
to this movie. Somebody mighttell you that Shrek is synonymous
with smash mouth's All Star,although I would argue that Mystery
Men got there first. But whenit came to the soundtrack for Shrek
(30:09):
2, Shrek 2 basically saw theShrek soundtrack and said hold my
beer because we've got theCounting Crows penned Accidentally
in Love, which was writtenespecially for this movie. A cover
of David Bowie's Changes, acover so good that David Bowie offered
to record new vocals for it.There are two covers of holding up
(30:30):
for a Hero, first recorded bythe Incredible Bonnie Tyler, including
a cover song by the inimitableJennifer Saunders, who is a comedy
legend here in the uk. Thereis a cover of Living La Vida Loca,
which is about as early 2000sas you can. Early 2000s. There's
Tom Waits, Little Drop ofPoison and Funky Town by Lips Inc.
(30:54):
The score and soundtrack isalso credited with helping to tell
the story, with composer HarryGregson Williams crediting Director
Andrew Adamson with pickingmost of Shrek 2 songs, and he specifically
chose tracks that worked bestwithin the narrative. And so obviously
fan anticipation for a sequelto Shrek was high. And so they did
(31:16):
a lot when it came tomarketing this movie. It was actually
one of the most extensive andinnovative marketing efforts for
an animated film at that time.They obviously had the traditional
deals like M&M's, Burger King,Ben and Jerry's. They had Shrek 2
cereals, they had Shrek 2Pepsi and Shrek 2 crisps, aka chips.
(31:40):
They also had a toy in videogame, which was released on the PlayStation
2 Xbox and GameCube, whichallowed players to experience the
movie story interactively. Itreceived mixed reviews, but then
most movie video game tie instend to do that. But the viral Marketing
for Shrek 2 in 2004 wasinnovative for its time. And you've
(32:01):
got to remember as well, thiswas before the advent of social media.
It was before YouTube, whichcame out in 2005, it was before Facebook
went public in 2006, and itwas before Twitter as well. That
came out in 2006. The officialwebsite, Shrek2.com featured interactive
(32:22):
character profiles, desktopwallpapers and screensavers for download.
Browser based mini games,behind the scenes videos and AOL
and MSN messenger icons. MostInternet users were actually still
on Dial Up Connections at thetime, if you remember Dial Up Connection,
because I certainly do. Andbecause of this, the interactive
(32:45):
features had to be relativelysimple to accommodate those slower
download speeds. And if you'reof that vintage where you remember,
those were the days ofInternet Explorer 6 and Medscape
Navigator, I mentioned AOL andMSN Messenger. The movie also had
an official presence on thoseplatforms. And these were basically
(33:07):
very, very early versions ofsocial media presences. There were
also email newslettercampaigns and promotional content
on very early social platformslike friends stuff. You could also
create your own fairy tale onthe Shrek 2 website, where users
could mix and match charactersand scenarios. And there was also
(33:27):
Far Far Away Idol, which wasan interactive feature that tied
into the DVD release starringSimon Cowell as himself, but an animated
version of himself. In May2004, Shrek 2 competed for the prestigious
Palme d'or at the Cannes FilmFestival alongside films like Oldboy,
the Lady killers andFahrenheit 9 11, the latter of which
(33:51):
won the award and is so farthe first and only documentary to
win the festival's main prize.Nevertheless, the fact Shrek 2 was
up there with some of the bestmovies from across the world that
year. Spoke wonders andaudience anticipation was high. Shrek
2 was originally scheduled forrelease on 18 June 2004. It was then
(34:13):
moved forward to 21 May 2004.However, due to fan demand, it was
released two days earlier on19 May 2004. It opened at third due
to its early release, but thenjumped up to number one at the weekly
box office where it stayed fortwo weeks and then stayed in the
top 10 for 11 weeks. On itseventual $150 million budget, Shrek
(34:37):
2 would make $441.6 milliondomestically and $487.5 million internationally
for a total worldwide gross of$929.1 million. It became the highest
grossing movie of 2004worldwide, beating its nearest rivals
(34:58):
Harry Potter and the Prisonerof azkaban and Spider Man 2 by 130
to 140 million dollars. Shrek2 was the highest grossing animated
film globally until therelease of Toy Story 3 in 2010. It
also held the title of highestgrossing animated film in North America
until Finding Dory wasreleased in 2016. It was the highest
(35:20):
grossing non Disney animatedfilm at the US box office until the
Super Mario Bros movie in 2023and it was the highest grossing non
Disney animated film worldwideuntil 2013 when Despicable Me Too
overtook it. When the Shrek 2DVD released, it became one of the
best selling DVD releases ofall time with over 37 million copies
(35:43):
being sold grossing $458million. Well, purportedly investors
would sue DreamWorks with aclass action lawsuit over misrepresented
DVD sales. Jeffrey Katzenbergand Chairman Roger Enrico were accused
of failing to Disclose in thefirst quarter that sales of the DVD
(36:03):
were declining more thanexpected. Expected that DreamWorks
continued to ship DVDs far inexcess of demand and hid the fact
that retailers were thenreturning unsold DVDs. The lawsuit
over the Shrek 2 DVD sales wasundermined by the documents presented
by the plaintiffs. Theplaintiffs arguments were that the
defendants were aware of atrend that would have a material
(36:25):
impact on the DVD sales, butthe documents did not support this
claim and the lawsuit wasthrown out. Despite the lawsuit being
thrown out, DreamWorksAnimation would deliver two profit
warnings in three months in2005 which saw its stock price crash
after surprise surprise lowerthan expected DVD sales. And this
(36:48):
was despite the financialsuccess of the movie Madagascar which
came out in 2005. But back toShrek too, because it was also praised
critically as well. It has an89% of rotten tomatoes with the consensus
reading it may not be as freshas the original, but topical humor
and colorful secondarycharacters make Shrek 2 a winner
(37:08):
in its own right. Shrek 2 wasalso nominated for the Academy Award
for Best Animated Feature, butit lost to the Incredibles. It was
also nominated for BestOriginal Song at the Academy Awards
for Accidentally in Love,which it lost to Al Otro Lado del
Rio from the MotorcycleDiaries. Accidentally in Love also
(37:28):
received a Golden Globenomination for Best Original Song
and a Grammy Award nominationfor Best Song Written for a Motion
Picture, Television or OtherVisual Media. But we need to talk
about sequels because Shrekthe Third and Shrek Forever after
exist. Yay. I have seen Shrekthe third. I have seen a bit of Shrek
(37:53):
Forever after and I turned itoff because I was not enjoying myself.
I probably should actuallygive that movie a chance, especially
with Shrek 5 on its way. Butit is really funny that Shrek made
its name on parodying Disney,Disney's repetitive messages and
inferior sequels. And then itbasically does exactly the same thing.
(38:14):
Shrek5, as I mentioned, hasbeen confirmed it will be arriving
in December 2026 with the mainthree principal cast returning. And
from this movie we got a Pussin Boots spin off in 2011, but really
the only movie that we careabout from the Shrek universe other
than the original Shrek andthis one is Puss in Boots the Last
(38:35):
Wish, which didn't have to goas hard as it did, but it really
did and it is a trulystunningly beautiful and poignant
movie. I highly recommend youwatch it. If you haven't, I believe
it's on Netflix at the momenthere in the uk. And the lasting legacy
of Shrek is simply this. Whenmy dad goes off on a bit of a rant
(38:56):
about something, my mom willtell him to stop being a drama king.
And if something permeates popculture to the extent that my parents
are quoting really hasproperly permeated pop culture. And
one of the reasons animationis so great and two kind of epitomizes
(39:18):
this is that animation workson a multi generational level. It
has kid friendly humor and ithas adult humor as well. And yes,
some of the references are abit dated because this is a movie
from the mid-2000s. There'salso more than a little bit transphobia
in this movie as well. Again,this was the case in the 2000s. There
(39:40):
is a particular line thatfairy Godmother says that's often
cut out. I'm not going torepeat the line, but it is often
cut out because it might causeoffense to some people. And the ridiculing
of Pinocchio for wearing athong is a funny joke, but it just
goes on a bit too long. Andwho cares that he's wearing a thong
again? Thongs were very much athing in the early 2000s, and I remember
(40:02):
using that line whenever youcould see a friend's thong poking
out from behind her jeans. Andjust like Shrek, this movie created
lasting memes and quotablemoments. While Shrek popularized
pop culture references andmodern music in animated films, Shrek
Too just takes it one stepfurther by elaborating on the story
we've seen and we know andcarrying it on in a natural way.
(40:26):
We know he's married to theprincess now, he has to meet the
parents, and this may be bold,but I think Far Far Away is one of
the best parodies of Hollywoodever put to screen because the attention
to detail is absolutelyphenomenal. But this is also a movie
with hearts. It has a greatcentral villain who's clearly been
in it for the long run, andall Fairy Godmother wants is her
(40:48):
boy on the throne. The ideathat he was the prince destined to
free Fiona from the tower butjust got there a bit late does make
you wonder how Lord Farquaaddidn't know that Fiona was technically
already off the market. But Iguess Lord Farquaad doesn't really
care. We know that he'scompensating for something. If you
(41:09):
think about this movie alittle bit too much, it starts to
not make sense. Like thetoadstool turning into a rose pretty
much immediately, but it takesovernight for Shrek and Donkey. And
why didn't Fiona questionPrince Charming as Shrek more? I
don't know. Maybe ask ifyou're Shrek, then where did we spend
our honeymoon? Stuff thatCharming wouldn't know. I realized
(41:31):
the plot would crumble, buther voice and demeanor didn't change.
So why would his Shrek 2 isseen by many as a perfect sequel.
Not a perfect movie, but aperfect sequel by expanding on the
original's themes and storywhile maintaining quality, balancing
comedy with emotional depth,deepening the character development
of Shrek, Fiona, and Donkeygiving us Puss in Boots. Look at
(41:56):
his eyes. Aww. The themes ofthe original Shrek are about self
confidence, accepting yourselffor who you are and that you are
worthy of love no matter whatyou look like or what your background
is. That you shouldn't judge abook by its cover. Regardless of
what the torches andpitchforks say in Shrek 2, they really
expand on this theme and howthe character of Shrek deals with
(42:19):
this in a really effectiveway. With both Shrek and Fiona now
ogres and her parentsaccepting her for who she is, but
her father refusing to giveShrek his blessing because of who
he is. Shrek has likely neverhad a family, so this seemingly happy
family dynamic is completelynew to him, not to mention the fact
they are the literal royalfamily of Far Far Away. So of course
(42:43):
he begins to doubt howdeserving he is of Fiona, especially
when he discovers she haddreams of marrying the stereotypically
handsome but total mummy's boyPrince Charming. He worries about
not being good enough to thepoint where he takes a potion to
become handsome, believingthat that's all that Fiona really
wants. The potion, obviouslyfrom Fairy Godmother, and Fairy Godmother
(43:08):
is just an exceptionalvillain. Jennifer Saunders plays
her perfectly, and holding outfor a hero is downright the best
song and scene in this entirefranchise. It has action, it has
humor, it has Fiona tryingdesperately to avoid Prince Charming
kissing her, and it has Mongo,go bongo, be good. That gets me every
(43:31):
time. In many ways, thesuccess of Shrek would ultimately
lead to the downfall ofDreamWorks. Nothing ever reached
these highest heights again.And in 2004, DreamWorks Animation
LLC became a publicly tradedcompany. And with them not having
a distribution arm, theyentered deals with other companies
like Paramount and 20thCentury Fox. The studio was ultimately
(43:54):
acquired by Universal Picturesin 2016, now headed up by Chris Meledandri
of Illumination Studios. Thisdeal is what gave us Puss in Boots,
the Last Wish. But it's safeto say that DreamWorks Animation
peaked in the early 2000s, andthen the late 2000s saw an evolution
of Disney animation. When BobIger replaced Michael Eisner at Disney
(44:17):
in 2005, he said that one ofhis main goals was to restore Disney's
animation. One of Iger's firstact was to buy Pixar outright rather
than just partnering with thecompany. In his tenure, Iger was
also responsible for Disneypaying billions for Lucasfilm and
Marvel. Iger also pushedPixar's storytelling brain trust
(44:37):
into the rest of Disneyanimation, which led to a whole new
renaissance with Tangled,Wreck It Ralph and Frozen and everything
that's come after that. And ifogres can live happily ever after,
there is hope for the rest ofus. We can only hope though, that
Shrek 5 brings back some ofthe Shrek magic and for a sequel,
(44:59):
it is genuinely one of thebest sequels. It's also one hell
of a middle finger to Disney.Thank you for listening. As always,
I would love to hear yourthoughts on Shrek too. And thank
you for your continued supportof this podcast. If you want to get
involved and help this podcastgrow, you can find this podcast on
social media. Iam@VerbalDiorama. You can find me,
(45:21):
you can follow me, you canlike posts, you can share posts wherever
you go. Social media ring,Verbal Diorama is there. You can
tell your friends and familyabout this podcast or you could leave
a rating or review whereveryou found this podcast. And if you
like this episode on Shrek,the only episode I can really Recommend
is episode 79 on the originalShrek. So the next episode of this
(45:45):
podcast I'm going to tell youabout the next three episodes of
this podcast because they arefor this podcast sixth birthday,
so they're kind of a big deal.So for the sixth birthday of this
podcast I wanted to focus onDisney and I have obviously covered
a lot of Disney movies in thepast, but I wanted to specifically
(46:05):
cover the pre RenaissanceRenaissance and post Renaissance
eras of Disney. So let's gothrough all three. For the pre Renaissance,
I'm going to be talking aboutthe history and legacy of the Great
Mouse Detective, AKA Basil theGreat Mouse Detective, which is what
it was released here in the UKas. And that movie was actually fundamental
(46:27):
to the Renaissance becausewithout the success of the Great
Mouse Detective, it's likelythat the Disney Renaissance never
have happened. But moving intothe Renaissance, I'm then going to
do an episode on the Historyand Legacy of Hercules, which is
a Disney Renaissance moviethat doesn't feel like a Disney Renaissance
movie, but it's an interestingDisney Renaissance movie. It has
(46:49):
a very unique and interestinganimation style and let's be honest,
some of the best songs inDisney movies. Full stop. The Muses.
That's all I need to say. TheMuses. Also, I believe the Muses
are the first black women toappear in Disney animation, which
(47:10):
is quite astonishing really,considering Hercules came out in
1997. And then the finalepisode for the Birthday is going
to be on the Post Renaissanceand I'm going to be doing an episode
on Atlantis, the Lost Empire,which is technically stunningly beautiful
but really, really, reallystruggles. And it's such a shame
(47:33):
because there's such greatstuff in Atlantis and it's got such
a fervent fan base as well,and you can really see what they
were trying to do with themovie. But I want to go into the
history and legacy ofAtlantis, the Lost Empire. So those
three movies are going to formthe basis of the sixth birthday of
this podcast. I hope youlisten to one of them. I hope you
listen to all of them. But ifyou do, I hope you enjoy them. They're
(47:55):
going to be released spreadover a week's period. But please
join me for the next episodesof this podcast on the history and
legacy of the great mousedetective, Hercules and Atlantis,
the Lost Empire. Now, I alwayssay this podcast is free and it always
will be free. However, it isnot free to make a podcast. So I
(48:17):
rely on some incrediblygenerous human beings to help fund
Verbal Diorama to help me payfor things like subscriptions and
software and equipment andhosting and all of the stuff that
you need to run a podcast. Youare under no obligation to financially
support this podcast and younever will be under any financial
(48:37):
obligation. However, if youhave some spare pennies and you want
to help support an indiecreator who does all of this every
week on her own, you can dothat one of two ways. You go to verbaldiorama.com
tips and give a one off tip.Or you can go to verbaldiorama.Com
Patreon and you can join theamazing patrons of this podcast.
(48:59):
They are Sade, Claudia, Simon,Laurel, Derek, Kat, Andy, Mike, Luke,
Michael, Scott, Brendan, Lisa,Sam, Jack, Dave, Stuart, Nicholas,
Zoe, Kev, Pete, Heather,Danny, Ali, Stuart, Brett, Philip
M, Michelle, Xenos, Sean,Rhino, Philip K, Adam, Elaine, Kyle
(49:19):
and Aaron. If you want to getin touch, you can email verbaldioramail.com
or you can go to my website,verbaldiorama.com and you can fill
out the little contact form.You can also find bits that I do@filmstories.co.uk
and finally,
(53:46):
Bye.
Hi, everyone. I'm Em. Andwelcome to verbal diorama. Episode
286 Shrek 2 Shrek 2 Shrek 2Shrak 2 Shrek 2 Shrek 2 this is the
(03:55):
podcast that's all about thehistory and legacy of movies yous
Know and movies yous don'twhere your fallen tears have called
to me, so here comes my sweetremedy. I know what every princess
needs for her to live lifehappily with Just a welcome to Verbal
Diorama to all brand newlisteners of this podcast. Welcome
(04:19):
back regular returninglisteners. Whether you've come all
the way from far far away oryou just live locally, thank you
for being here. Thank you forchoosing to listen to this podcast.
I'm so happy to have you herefor the history and legacy of of
Shrek 2 and as part of thatwelcome to Animation Season 2025.
(04:39):
If this is your first timevisiting Animation Season 2025, there
have been four moviespreceding this episode. There have
been episodes on Turning Red,Encanto, Paranorman, and the Simpsons
Movie. And this is the fifthannual animation season. It is a
celebration of of animation inall of its perfect, wonderful forms,
(05:05):
whether that is traditional 2Dhand drawn animation, stop motion
animation, or CG animation andanimation season on this podcast
has featured some of thegreatest and most well known animation
studios of all time likeLeica, Aardman, Disney Dreamworks,
Sony Animation, Pixar Studio,Ghibli, Cartoon Saloon, even studios
(05:29):
that are no longer with uslike Fox Animation, Blue Sky Studios
and Don Blue Studios.Animation. It's not just for children
animation. It's not a genre.Animation is the perfect art form.
It is capable of depictinganything and anyone. Whether you
are an ogre, whether you are aprincess, whether you are a donkey,
(05:53):
there are no limitations. Youcan get away with anything in Animation
and Animation Season. That'swhy it's here. It's here to highlight
these incredible animatedfilms that you may know that you
may not, or that you may havediscounted for whatever reason. But
animation is so important andit's one of those art forms that
(06:16):
I absolutely love talkingabout on this podcast. So I hope
that you will indulge in someof the other animated treasures this
animation season and I hopethat you will enjoy this episode.
Huge thanks to everyone wholistens to this podcast and really
who has continued to listenand support this podcast. This podcast
has been going six years, veryalmost very soon. It is the sixth
(06:39):
birthday of this podcast. I'mgoing to be talking about that a
little bit later on in thisepisode. But this podcast has been
going for that long. It wouldnot have been going for that long
without the support of thelisteners of this podcast. So I am
so grateful to you all.Whether this is your first episode,
whether this is your 100thepisode, it doesn't matter. I'm so
grateful to you and I'm sograteful to you for listening. And
(07:02):
it's been over 200 episodessince I did an episode on the original
Shrek. This means that thisparticular episode holds the record
for the biggest gap between afirst and second movie on this podcast.
Shrek was episode 79. This is286. There's no particular reason
(07:26):
why, Just that there's a lotof other movies to get through, I
guess. But it is widelyconsidered by many to be one of the
best sequels ever. And goodthings come to those who wait. You
don't have to travel to FarFar Away to get to this episode.
Well, this fairy godmother,though, is all in it for herself.
(07:48):
Here's the trailer for Shrek 2.
(10:12):
Once upon a time, in a kingdomfar, far away, the King and Queen
were blessed with a beautifulbaby. Girl. And throughout the land
everyone was happy. Until thesun went down and they saw that their
daughter was cursed with afrightful enchantment that took hold
each and every night.Desperate, they sought the help of
(10:33):
a fairy godmother who had themlock the young princess away in a
tower, there to await the kissof the handsome Prince Charming.
It was he who would chance theperilous journey through blistering
cold and scorching desert,travelling for many days and nights,
risking life and limb to reachthe Dragon's Keep. For he was the
(10:54):
bravest and most handsome inall the land. And it was destiny
that his kiss would break thedreaded curse. He alone would climb
to the highest room of thetallest tower to enter the princess's
chambers, cross the room toher sleeping silhouette, pull back
the gossamer curtains to findthat she's on a honeymoon with her
(11:15):
new ogre husband. Let's runthrough the cast. We have Mike Myers
as Shrek, Eddie Murphy asDonkey, Cameron Diaz as Princess
Fiona, Julie Andrews as QueenLillian, Antonio Banderas as Puss
in Boots, John Cleese as KingHarold, Rupert Everett as Prince
(11:35):
Charming, Jennifer Saunders asFairy Godmother, Joan Rivers as Joan
Rivers and Larry King asDoris, the ugly stepsister. Shrek
2 has a screenplay by AndrewAdamson, Joe Stillman, J. David Stern
and David N. Weiss. A story byAndrew Adamson was directed by Andrew
(11:57):
Adamson, Kelly Asbury andConrad Vernon and was based on Shrek
by William Stig. So I thinkit's easy to call the Original Shrek
a 2000s phenomenon. Itsubverted the fairy tales that we'd
been spoon fed since children.It revolutionized animation. It won
the first ever Oscar for BestAnimated feature and basically became
(12:20):
a thousand meme generators. Sodespite it making fun of fairy tales
and specifically Disney moviesand their propensity to generate
sequels to those movies,sequel to Shrek was inevitable. It
was everything Disney andPixar weren't. It was rude, it had
farts, it made sex jokes andhad pop culture references. It was
(12:42):
the refreshing alternative toDisney, and in many ways it was Jeffrey
Katzenberg's middle finger tothe studio he previously called home.
Katzenberg had managed theacquisition of Pixar and then left
Disney to create DreamWorksalongside Steven Spielberg and David
Geffen. There was a wellpublicized feud between DreamWorks
(13:03):
and Pixar with Katzenbergwanting ants to beat a bug's life
into cinemas on purpose. Shrekwas the ultimate fu, with Lord Farquaad
reportedly modelled on Disneychief Michael Eisner. Let's Just
say Eisner and Katzenbergweren't the best of buddies. Shrek
cemented DreamWorks as theanimation studio of the future, and
(13:26):
while Disney's animationdepartment was floundering, no pun
intended, Little Mermaid Shrekwent up against Atlantis, the lost
Empire at the box office, andwith a six week advantage, Shrek
just decimated thecompetition. But the story of Atlantis
is due its very own episodepause for dramatic effect and there
(13:49):
were more tales to be toldfrom the Shrek universe as well as
more money. The original Shrekmade just under half a billion dollars
in 2001 and so it meantgetting the cast and creatives back
for a sequel. Director ofShrek, Andrew Adamson would return
to do the sequel but also cowrite the story. After Ted Elliott
(14:10):
and Terry Rossio, thescreenwriters and producers at Shrek,
left the project citingcreative differences. Adamson would
base his story on the 1967comedy drama Guess who's Coming to
Dinner, starring SpencerTracy, Katharine Hepburn and Sidney
Poitier, about a young whitewoman who brings her new fiance home
to meet her parents. But hernew fiance just happens to be an
(14:32):
African American man.Interracial marriage had historically
been prohibited in many USstates, and the movie was one of
the few to portray aninterracial marriage in a positive
light. Six months prior to themovie's release on 12 June 1967,
interracial marriage was stillillegal in 17 states. In Shrek 2,
(14:53):
the story similarly centersaround meeting the in laws with Princess
Fiona bringing Shrek home tobeat her royal parents in Far Far
Away. Like the parents inGuess who's Coming to Dinner, King
Harold and Queen Lillian,particularly Harold, struggle to
accept their daughter's choiceof husband, in this case because
Shrek is an ogre rather thanthe prince they expected. But naturally
(15:15):
the racial metaphor is stillthere. Jo Stillman, one of the writers
from Shrek, did return to helppen the script, and joining the movie's
writing team would bescreenwriting duo J. David Stern
and David Henry Weiss. Therewere initial plans for the return
of Lord Farquhar. Despitebecoming dragon food in the first
movie, the idea was that hewould return as a ghost to haunt
(15:38):
Shrek and seek revenge. WithJohn Lithgow reprising his role,
the idea was instead used forShrek 4D, the simulator ride at Universal
Studios. A new storycontinuing the fairy tale of Shrek
and Fiona straight after theirwedding was proposed instead. Again,
no pun intended, which wouldmean the return of all three primary
(15:59):
cast members, Mike Myers,Eddie Murphy and Cameron Diaz on
the first movie, the threeactors deferred their salaries and
were paid scale, butnegotiated deals that included a
percentage of the film'sprofits, which significantly increased
their total earnings givenShrek's massive box office success.
After Shrek became a huge hit,Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy and Cameron
(16:22):
Diaz negotiated an upfrontpayment of $10 million each for voicing
a sequel to the film. Joiningthe cast would be a whole host of
British names, including JulieAndrews, John Cleese, Jennifer Saunders,
and Rupert Everett and AntonioBanderas. Also joining as one of
the greatest characters in theentire franchise. Puss in Boots would
(16:45):
be so integral to thefranchise that I'm certain there's
a Mandela effect going on herebecause he was in Shrek, right? He's
just been here this wholetime. I don't believe that Shrek
exists without Puss in Boots.He's that important to this universe.
He'd also be the character toget the spin offs, one of which would
(17:07):
be outstanding, just FYI. Pussin Boots the Last Wish Very almost
got a spot on this animationseason, but I felt like I needed
to give Shrek 2 its final duesand all of the characters would make
sense in this story. PrinceCharming was the prince on his way
to rouse Fiona with FairyGodmother making a deal with the
king who already owed her formaking his happily ever after come
(17:31):
true. Just how much the FairyGodmother did actually do is unknown,
but it is likely she couldhave also caused Fiona's curse in
the first place. Mike Myerswas a huge Monty Python fan, and
so having John Cleese in themovie was a particular dream come
true for him. While most ofthe cast recorded their lines separately,
John Cleese and Julie Andrewsrecorded theirs as the King and Queen
(17:55):
together. Doing the animationonce again was the team at PDI DreamWorks,
and while the animation wasenhanced across the board, it would
also have to be updated toinclude these new characters, including
Pussing Boots, and he broughtabout new challenges. The original
inspiration for the characterwas Andrew Adamson's cat, who was
(18:15):
gray. But having a gray catnext to a gray donkey wouldn't work,
so Puss was instead modeled onvisual effects supervisor Ken Bielenberg's
orange tabby cat. Theanimators researched extensively
studying videos of real catsto understand their natural movements
and behaviors. They paidparticular attention to how cats
(18:35):
move their bodies duringdifferent actions walking, running,
pouncing, and even subtlemovements like ear twitches and tail
swishes. The team frequentlybrought in real cats to the studio
for live observation sessionsand as a podcast with two feline
producers, I can tell you thatEvie and Peggy are well represented
in Puss. For the charactersbipedal movements, the animators
(18:58):
had to find a careful balancebetween human and feline motion.
They created a hybrid stylethat maintained cat like grace while
allowing Puss to perform humanactions convincingly. This included
studying how a cat's spine andshoulders would adapt to upright
posture while retainingdistinctly feline characteristics.
(19:19):
The facial animation wasparticularly complex. The team developed
a detailed rig for Puss's facethat included multiple layers of
controls for his signaturecute eyes expression, sophisticated
whiskey movement systems,detailed mouth shapes for dialogue,
ear controls for emotionalexpression, fur dynamics that responded
to facial movements, andsimulated over 40,000 individual
(19:43):
hair strands on Puss's body.For the sword fighting sequences,
the animators referenced bothcat movement and traditional swashbuckling
films. This studied howlegendary screen sword fighters like
Errol Flynn moved, thenadapted these movements to work with
Puss's feline physiology. Thiscreated his distinctive fighting
style that combined cat likeagility with heroic swordplay. The
(20:07):
animation team also heavilyutilized Antonio Banderas performance
as a reference. They wouldfilm his recording sessions and study
his expressions and gestures,incorporating these human elements
into Puss's characteranimation. This helped maintain the
Spanish flair that Banderasbrought to the role while keeping
the character fundamentallyfeline. Banderas, for his part, would
(20:29):
not only record Puss'sdialogue in English, but also in
Spanish and Italian. At thetime, Banderas was on Broadway singing
every night and then recordingSessions for Shrek 2 the next morning.
So Puss's bravado ended upessentially destroying his vocal
cords. They also hadcomplications around how Pussy's
(20:49):
fur would react to his beltingcape because. Newsflash. I don't
know if you know this, butmost cats don't wear a belt or a
cape. They also had to developa simulation system to move fur out
of the way of the belt. It wasa lot easier for the Shrek 2 team
to animate fluids. Even hugevats of multicolored potions spilling
(21:11):
everywhere could be easilyachieved with new dynamic fluid engines
and directing how fluidsinteracted with characters. But with
a bigger cast for Shrek alsocame more human characters and more
realistic human characters.While Princess Fiona in the first
movie looked very naturallyhuman, subtle design changes were
(21:31):
made to her and to Shrek.Taking advantage of the enhancement
in CG animation, the rest ofthe human characters were created
with their human voice actorsin mind. With fairy godmother strongly
resembling Jennifer Saunders.One of the most difficult characters
to create was Handsome Shrekbecause he still had to resemble
Shrek but also be sexy. Theygave him strong chiseled features
(21:55):
and flowing hair, but keptsome of Mike Myers facial characteristics
to maintain a connection toShrek's personality. The design was
meant to parody the typicalPrince Charming archetype while still
making him believable as atransformed version of the character.
Myers maintained the Scottishaccent for Shrek, but with a slightly
(22:15):
more refined delivery asHandsome Shrek. Even the background
characters were remodeled fromthe original's generic design to
give them high resolutionassets, anatomically correct physiques,
textured clothing, redonehairstyles, and even skin wrinkles.
But wait, this is Hollywood. Imean, Far Far Away wrinkles aren't
(22:37):
allowed, right? But in trueShrek parody fashion, the design
of Far Far Away imitatedHollywood and Beverly Hills, but
reimagined it through amedieval fairy tale lens, mixing
medieval architecture withmodern Los Angeles culture. The Far
Far Away sign, which is adirect parody of the Hollywood sign,
(23:00):
is placed on a hillsideoverlooking the kingdom. The design
team carefully createdweathering aging effects to make
it look like it had been therefor centuries rather than decades.
The main street of Far FarAway was modeled after Rodeo Drive
in Beverly Hills, featuringmedieval versions of luxury stores
like Versacerie, Versace,Abercrombie and Witch, Abercrombie
(23:25):
and Fitch and Old Navery, OldNavy. The buildings maintained a
consistent architecturalstyle. The blended Gothic and Renaissance
elements with modern retaildesign with obviously a fire books
located on both sides of thestreet. The streets were based in
a warm golden Californiasunshine effect while also maintaining
(23:46):
the fairy tale atmosphere. Anew lighting system was implemented
which included carefulattention and to how light would
interact with differentsurfaces from cobblestone streets
to castle walls to create thefeeling of a sunny Mediterranean
climate in a fairy talesetting. They took inspiration from
15th and 16th centuryclassical paintings, including by
(24:08):
Gustav Door, the renowned 19thcentury French illustrator and engraver
who himself inspired theclassic Disney animated fairy tales.
Production designer GuillemAratos and his colleagues used a
lot more displacement andglobal illumination in obtaining
a greater realistic bouncelight. For Shrek 2, they used global
illumination for 80% of theshots, which is a proprietary renderer
(24:33):
and has been rewritten sincethe first Shrek. The King and Queen's
castle design drew inspirationfrom multiple real European castles,
but incorporated HollywoodHills mansion elements, creating
a hybrid that suggested bothancient royalty and modern celebrity.
The interior design followedthe same principle, mixing medieval
tapestries and throne roomswith modern luxury amenities. Fiona's
(24:58):
parents, Queen Lillian andKing Harold were named after Harold
and Lillian Michelson, anextraordinary couple that maybe you've
never heard of. HaroldMichelson was an Oscar nominated
production designer and artdirector working on west side Story,
the Birds and Cleopatra.Lillian Michelson was a film scholar
(25:18):
and researcher who sometimesexperienced danger doing said research.
It's said that she had tointerview drug lords and DEA agents
to have accurate material forthe movie Scarface, for example.
Lillian Michelson also builtand managed Hollywood's most famous
research library, theMichelson Cinema Research Library.
(25:40):
She made deals for the libraryto be housed with the American Film
Institute and then thePantagious Theatre. She was so passionate
about this library that thematerials contained within it were
under her almost constantwatch. Francis Ford Coppola asked
her to join ZoeTrope Studiosin 1980 and she at the library stayed
(26:01):
there till 1986 when Michelsonwas let go from the studio for financial
reasons. Dreamworks Picturesthen became the steward of the library
when Lillian Michelson retiredand in December 2020 the library
was donated to the Internetarchive. Harold Michelson died in
(26:21):
2007 at the age of 87 andLillian Michelson is currently 96
and living in the retirementcommunity set up by the Motion Picture
and Television Fund in LosAngeles. In 2017, Harold and Lillian
Michelson were given alifetime achievement award by the
American Academy of DramaticArts for their contributions, making
(26:44):
them the first behind thescenes non actors to ever receive
that award. Queen Lillian andKing Harold were named after them
in Shrek 2 as a tribute toeverything they've done for the Hollywood
film industry. And whileDragon shows up at the end of the
movie and it's discovered thather and Donkey have had quote unquote
(27:06):
mutant babies, she wasoriginally going to have a much bigger
role in the movie that whenthe potion is taken, Donkey turns
into a stallion, baby dragonwould have turned into a Pegasus.
The sequence was reportedlystoryboarded but ultimately cut from
the final film. And one of thethings that the original Schweppe
(27:27):
and this sequel do so well arethe pop culture parodies. There are
so many of them, I can'tpossibly list them all. However,
here's some very obvious ones.We have parodies of Mission Impossible
in the castle break insequence. Spider man, the upside
down kiss, Lord of the Rings,the forging of Fiona's wedding ring,
the Little Mermaid when Fionathrows an aerial lookalike into the
(27:51):
sea, Alien, the scene wherePuss emerges from Shrek's stomach,
Cops, the night chasesequence. And also the O.J. simpson
Bronco Chase. And obviouslyZorro in Puss in Boots character
and fighting style. It alsoparodies general Hollywood elements
like red carpet culture,celebrity lifestyle, awards shows,
(28:12):
and Hollywood's obsession withyouth, luxury and beauty. Here in
the uk, the Joan Rivers andLarry King characters were redubbed
with Kate Thornton andJonathan Ross, but they are never
credited for these roles. Itsimilarly doesn't make much sense
for the Joan Rivers characterbecause she is modeled on Joan Rivers.
(28:35):
The role was designedexclusively for Joan Rivers and she
is also credited on IMDb asJoan Rivers. So to not have Joan
Rivers voice, that role justdoes not work. And Joan Rivers would
be the first time that anyonewould essentially be playing themselves
in the Shrek universeexclusively to this podcast is the
(28:59):
obligatory Keanu reference. Itis part of this podcast where I try
and link the movie that I'mfeaturing with Keanu Reeves, and
it's always very difficult tolink Keanu to animation. I've always
found it really tough.However, Keanu Reeves first worked
with Princess Fiona, akaCameron Diaz in Feeling Minnesota
back in 1996, but teaming upagain next year for Jonah Hill's
(29:24):
second feature film asdirector the black comedy Outcome.
And I have to say, I'm sohappy to see Cameron Diaz back. She
has effectively been retiredfrom acting for about 10 years at
this point, and she hasrecently returned. She has obviously
just been in the Netflixaction movie Back in Action, which
is fine, she's good in it, butthe overall the movie is fine and
(29:46):
she is obviously going to bereturning in Shrek 5 as well. But
yeah, Cameron Diaz is theeasiest way to link Keanu Reeves
to this movie. Somebody mighttell you that Shrek is synonymous
with smash mouth's All Star,although I would argue that Mystery
Men got there first. But whenit came to the soundtrack for Shrek
(30:09):
2, Shrek 2 basically saw theShrek soundtrack and said hold my
beer because we've got theCounting Crows penned Accidentally
in Love, which was writtenespecially for this movie. A cover
of David Bowie's Changes, acover so good that David Bowie offered
to record new vocals for it.There are two covers of holding up
(30:30):
for a Hero, first recorded bythe Incredible Bonnie Tyler, including
a cover song by the inimitableJennifer Saunders, who is a comedy
legend here in the uk. Thereis a cover of Living La Vida Loca,
which is about as early 2000sas you can. Early 2000s. There's
Tom Waits, Little Drop ofPoison and Funky Town by Lips Inc.
(30:54):
The score and soundtrack isalso credited with helping to tell
the story, with composer HarryGregson Williams crediting Director
Andrew Adamson with pickingmost of Shrek 2 songs, and he specifically
chose tracks that worked bestwithin the narrative. And so obviously
fan anticipation for a sequelto Shrek was high. And so they did
(31:16):
a lot when it came tomarketing this movie. It was actually
one of the most extensive andinnovative marketing efforts for
an animated film at that time.They obviously had the traditional
deals like M&M's, Burger King,Ben and Jerry's. They had Shrek 2
cereals, they had Shrek 2Pepsi and Shrek 2 crisps, aka chips.
(31:40):
They also had a toy in videogame, which was released on the PlayStation
2 Xbox and GameCube, whichallowed players to experience the
movie story interactively. Itreceived mixed reviews, but then
most movie video game tie instend to do that. But the viral Marketing
for Shrek 2 in 2004 wasinnovative for its time. And you've
(32:01):
got to remember as well, thiswas before the advent of social media.
It was before YouTube, whichcame out in 2005, it was before Facebook
went public in 2006, and itwas before Twitter as well. That
came out in 2006. The officialwebsite, Shrek2.com featured interactive
(32:22):
character profiles, desktopwallpapers and screensavers for download.
Browser based mini games,behind the scenes videos and AOL
and MSN messenger icons. MostInternet users were actually still
on Dial Up Connections at thetime, if you remember Dial Up Connection,
because I certainly do. Andbecause of this, the interactive
(32:45):
features had to be relativelysimple to accommodate those slower
download speeds. And if you'reof that vintage where you remember,
those were the days ofInternet Explorer 6 and Medscape
Navigator, I mentioned AOL andMSN Messenger. The movie also had
an official presence on thoseplatforms. And these were basically
(33:07):
very, very early versions ofsocial media presences. There were
also email newslettercampaigns and promotional content
on very early social platformslike friends stuff. You could also
create your own fairy tale onthe Shrek 2 website, where users
could mix and match charactersand scenarios. And there was also
(33:27):
Far Far Away Idol, which wasan interactive feature that tied
into the DVD release starringSimon Cowell as himself, but an animated
version of himself. In May2004, Shrek 2 competed for the prestigious
Palme d'or at the Cannes FilmFestival alongside films like Oldboy,
the Lady killers andFahrenheit 9 11, the latter of which
(33:51):
won the award and is so farthe first and only documentary to
win the festival's main prize.Nevertheless, the fact Shrek 2 was
up there with some of the bestmovies from across the world that
year. Spoke wonders andaudience anticipation was high. Shrek
2 was originally scheduled forrelease on 18 June 2004. It was then
(34:13):
moved forward to 21 May 2004.However, due to fan demand, it was
released two days earlier on19 May 2004. It opened at third due
to its early release, but thenjumped up to number one at the weekly
box office where it stayed fortwo weeks and then stayed in the
top 10 for 11 weeks. On itseventual $150 million budget, Shrek
(34:37):
2 would make $441.6 milliondomestically and $487.5 million internationally
for a total worldwide gross of$929.1 million. It became the highest
grossing movie of 2004worldwide, beating its nearest rivals
(34:58):
Harry Potter and the Prisonerof azkaban and Spider Man 2 by 130
to 140 million dollars. Shrek2 was the highest grossing animated
film globally until therelease of Toy Story 3 in 2010. It
also held the title of highestgrossing animated film in North America
until Finding Dory wasreleased in 2016. It was the highest
(35:20):
grossing non Disney animatedfilm at the US box office until the
Super Mario Bros movie in 2023and it was the highest grossing non
Disney animated film worldwideuntil 2013 when Despicable Me Too
overtook it. When the Shrek 2DVD released, it became one of the
best selling DVD releases ofall time with over 37 million copies
(35:43):
being sold grossing $458million. Well, purportedly investors
would sue DreamWorks with aclass action lawsuit over misrepresented
DVD sales. Jeffrey Katzenbergand Chairman Roger Enrico were accused
of failing to Disclose in thefirst quarter that sales of the DVD
(36:03):
were declining more thanexpected. Expected that DreamWorks
continued to ship DVDs far inexcess of demand and hid the fact
that retailers were thenreturning unsold DVDs. The lawsuit
over the Shrek 2 DVD sales wasundermined by the documents presented
by the plaintiffs. Theplaintiffs arguments were that the
defendants were aware of atrend that would have a material
(36:25):
impact on the DVD sales, butthe documents did not support this
claim and the lawsuit wasthrown out. Despite the lawsuit being
thrown out, DreamWorksAnimation would deliver two profit
warnings in three months in2005 which saw its stock price crash
after surprise surprise lowerthan expected DVD sales. And this
(36:48):
was despite the financialsuccess of the movie Madagascar which
came out in 2005. But back toShrek too, because it was also praised
critically as well. It has an89% of rotten tomatoes with the consensus
reading it may not be as freshas the original, but topical humor
and colorful secondarycharacters make Shrek 2 a winner
(37:08):
in its own right. Shrek 2 wasalso nominated for the Academy Award
for Best Animated Feature, butit lost to the Incredibles. It was
also nominated for BestOriginal Song at the Academy Awards
for Accidentally in Love,which it lost to Al Otro Lado del
Rio from the MotorcycleDiaries. Accidentally in Love also
(37:28):
received a Golden Globenomination for Best Original Song
and a Grammy Award nominationfor Best Song Written for a Motion
Picture, Television or OtherVisual Media. But we need to talk
about sequels because Shrekthe Third and Shrek Forever after
exist. Yay. I have seen Shrekthe third. I have seen a bit of Shrek
(37:53):
Forever after and I turned itoff because I was not enjoying myself.
I probably should actuallygive that movie a chance, especially
with Shrek 5 on its way. Butit is really funny that Shrek made
its name on parodying Disney,Disney's repetitive messages and
inferior sequels. And then itbasically does exactly the same thing.
(38:14):
Shrek5, as I mentioned, hasbeen confirmed it will be arriving
in December 2026 with the mainthree principal cast returning. And
from this movie we got a Pussin Boots spin off in 2011, but really
the only movie that we careabout from the Shrek universe other
than the original Shrek andthis one is Puss in Boots the Last
(38:35):
Wish, which didn't have to goas hard as it did, but it really
did and it is a trulystunningly beautiful and poignant
movie. I highly recommend youwatch it. If you haven't, I believe
it's on Netflix at the momenthere in the uk. And the lasting legacy
of Shrek is simply this. Whenmy dad goes off on a bit of a rant
(38:56):
about something, my mom willtell him to stop being a drama king.
And if something permeates popculture to the extent that my parents
are quoting really hasproperly permeated pop culture. And
one of the reasons animationis so great and two kind of epitomizes
(39:18):
this is that animation workson a multi generational level. It
has kid friendly humor and ithas adult humor as well. And yes,
some of the references are abit dated because this is a movie
from the mid-2000s. There'salso more than a little bit transphobia
in this movie as well. Again,this was the case in the 2000s. There
(39:40):
is a particular line thatfairy Godmother says that's often
cut out. I'm not going torepeat the line, but it is often
cut out because it might causeoffense to some people. And the ridiculing
of Pinocchio for wearing athong is a funny joke, but it just
goes on a bit too long. Andwho cares that he's wearing a thong
again? Thongs were very much athing in the early 2000s, and I remember
(40:02):
using that line whenever youcould see a friend's thong poking
out from behind her jeans. Andjust like Shrek, this movie created
lasting memes and quotablemoments. While Shrek popularized
pop culture references andmodern music in animated films, Shrek
Too just takes it one stepfurther by elaborating on the story
we've seen and we know andcarrying it on in a natural way.
(40:26):
We know he's married to theprincess now, he has to meet the
parents, and this may be bold,but I think Far Far Away is one of
the best parodies of Hollywoodever put to screen because the attention
to detail is absolutelyphenomenal. But this is also a movie
with hearts. It has a greatcentral villain who's clearly been
in it for the long run, andall Fairy Godmother wants is her
(40:48):
boy on the throne. The ideathat he was the prince destined to
free Fiona from the tower butjust got there a bit late does make
you wonder how Lord Farquaaddidn't know that Fiona was technically
already off the market. But Iguess Lord Farquaad doesn't really
care. We know that he'scompensating for something. If you
(41:09):
think about this movie alittle bit too much, it starts to
not make sense. Like thetoadstool turning into a rose pretty
much immediately, but it takesovernight for Shrek and Donkey. And
why didn't Fiona questionPrince Charming as Shrek more? I
don't know. Maybe ask ifyou're Shrek, then where did we spend
our honeymoon? Stuff thatCharming wouldn't know. I realized
(41:31):
the plot would crumble, buther voice and demeanor didn't change.
So why would his Shrek 2 isseen by many as a perfect sequel.
Not a perfect movie, but aperfect sequel by expanding on the
original's themes and storywhile maintaining quality, balancing
comedy with emotional depth,deepening the character development
of Shrek, Fiona, and Donkeygiving us Puss in Boots. Look at
(41:56):
his eyes. Aww. The themes ofthe original Shrek are about self
confidence, accepting yourselffor who you are and that you are
worthy of love no matter whatyou look like or what your background
is. That you shouldn't judge abook by its cover. Regardless of
what the torches andpitchforks say in Shrek 2, they really
expand on this theme and howthe character of Shrek deals with
(42:19):
this in a really effectiveway. With both Shrek and Fiona now
ogres and her parentsaccepting her for who she is, but
her father refusing to giveShrek his blessing because of who
he is. Shrek has likely neverhad a family, so this seemingly happy
family dynamic is completelynew to him, not to mention the fact
they are the literal royalfamily of Far Far Away. So of course
(42:43):
he begins to doubt howdeserving he is of Fiona, especially
when he discovers she haddreams of marrying the stereotypically
handsome but total mummy's boyPrince Charming. He worries about
not being good enough to thepoint where he takes a potion to
become handsome, believingthat that's all that Fiona really
wants. The potion, obviouslyfrom Fairy Godmother, and Fairy Godmother
(43:08):
is just an exceptionalvillain. Jennifer Saunders plays
her perfectly, and holding outfor a hero is downright the best
song and scene in this entirefranchise. It has action, it has
humor, it has Fiona tryingdesperately to avoid Prince Charming
kissing her, and it has Mongo,go bongo, be good. That gets me every
(43:31):
time. In many ways, thesuccess of Shrek would ultimately
lead to the downfall ofDreamWorks. Nothing ever reached
these highest heights again.And in 2004, DreamWorks Animation
LLC became a publicly tradedcompany. And with them not having
a distribution arm, theyentered deals with other companies
like Paramount and 20thCentury Fox. The studio was ultimately
(43:54):
acquired by Universal Picturesin 2016, now headed up by Chris Meledandri
of Illumination Studios. Thisdeal is what gave us Puss in Boots,
the Last Wish. But it's safeto say that DreamWorks Animation
peaked in the early 2000s, andthen the late 2000s saw an evolution
of Disney animation. When BobIger replaced Michael Eisner at Disney
(44:17):
in 2005, he said that one ofhis main goals was to restore Disney's
animation. One of Iger's firstact was to buy Pixar outright rather
than just partnering with thecompany. In his tenure, Iger was
also responsible for Disneypaying billions for Lucasfilm and
Marvel. Iger also pushedPixar's storytelling brain trust
(44:37):
into the rest of Disneyanimation, which led to a whole new
renaissance with Tangled,Wreck It Ralph and Frozen and everything
that's come after that. And ifogres can live happily ever after,
there is hope for the rest ofus. We can only hope though, that
Shrek 5 brings back some ofthe Shrek magic and for a sequel,
(44:59):
it is genuinely one of thebest sequels. It's also one hell
of a middle finger to Disney.Thank you for listening. As always,
I would love to hear yourthoughts on Shrek too. And thank
you for your continued supportof this podcast. If you want to get
involved and help this podcastgrow, you can find this podcast on
social media. Iam@VerbalDiorama. You can find me,
(45:21):
you can follow me, you canlike posts, you can share posts wherever
you go. Social media ring,Verbal Diorama is there. You can
tell your friends and familyabout this podcast or you could leave
a rating or review whereveryou found this podcast. And if you
like this episode on Shrek,the only episode I can really Recommend
is episode 79 on the originalShrek. So the next episode of this
(45:45):
podcast I'm going to tell youabout the next three episodes of
this podcast because they arefor this podcast sixth birthday,
so they're kind of a big deal.So for the sixth birthday of this
podcast I wanted to focus onDisney and I have obviously covered
a lot of Disney movies in thepast, but I wanted to specifically
(46:05):
cover the pre RenaissanceRenaissance and post Renaissance
eras of Disney. So let's gothrough all three. For the pre Renaissance,
I'm going to be talking aboutthe history and legacy of the Great
Mouse Detective, AKA Basil theGreat Mouse Detective, which is what
it was released here in the UKas. And that movie was actually fundamental
(46:27):
to the Renaissance becausewithout the success of the Great
Mouse Detective, it's likelythat the Disney Renaissance never
have happened. But moving intothe Renaissance, I'm then going to
do an episode on the Historyand Legacy of Hercules, which is
a Disney Renaissance moviethat doesn't feel like a Disney Renaissance
movie, but it's an interestingDisney Renaissance movie. It has
(46:49):
a very unique and interestinganimation style and let's be honest,
some of the best songs inDisney movies. Full stop. The Muses.
That's all I need to say. TheMuses. Also, I believe the Muses
are the first black women toappear in Disney animation, which
(47:10):
is quite astonishing really,considering Hercules came out in
1997. And then the finalepisode for the Birthday is going
to be on the Post Renaissanceand I'm going to be doing an episode
on Atlantis, the Lost Empire,which is technically stunningly beautiful
but really, really, reallystruggles. And it's such a shame
(47:33):
because there's such greatstuff in Atlantis and it's got such
a fervent fan base as well,and you can really see what they
were trying to do with themovie. But I want to go into the
history and legacy ofAtlantis, the Lost Empire. So those
three movies are going to formthe basis of the sixth birthday of
this podcast. I hope youlisten to one of them. I hope you
listen to all of them. But ifyou do, I hope you enjoy them. They're
(47:55):
going to be released spreadover a week's period. But please
join me for the next episodesof this podcast on the history and
legacy of the great mousedetective, Hercules and Atlantis,
the Lost Empire. Now, I alwayssay this podcast is free and it always
will be free. However, it isnot free to make a podcast. So I
(48:17):
rely on some incrediblygenerous human beings to help fund
Verbal Diorama to help me payfor things like subscriptions and
software and equipment andhosting and all of the stuff that
you need to run a podcast. Youare under no obligation to financially
support this podcast and younever will be under any financial
(48:37):
obligation. However, if youhave some spare pennies and you want
to help support an indiecreator who does all of this every
week on her own, you can dothat one of two ways. You go to verbaldiorama.com
tips and give a one off tip.Or you can go to verbaldiorama.Com
Patreon and you can join theamazing patrons of this podcast.
(48:59):
They are Sade, Claudia, Simon,Laurel, Derek, Kat, Andy, Mike, Luke,
Michael, Scott, Brendan, Lisa,Sam, Jack, Dave, Stuart, Nicholas,
Zoe, Kev, Pete, Heather,Danny, Ali, Stuart, Brett, Philip
M, Michelle, Xenos, Sean,Rhino, Philip K, Adam, Elaine, Kyle
(49:19):
and Aaron. If you want to getin touch, you can email verbaldioramail.com
or you can go to my website,verbaldiorama.com and you can fill
out the little contact form.You can also find bits that I do@filmstories.co.uk
and finally,
(53:46):
Bye.
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