May 15, 2025 • 48 mins
In the third of five special episodes to celebrate this podcast's 300th episode, focused on J.R.R. Tolkien's fantasy epic The Lord of the Rings, this episode is the second middle chapter, with no beginning and no end, just like The Two Towers.
The Two Towers ups the ante from The Fellowship of the Ring, balancing intense action with rich storytelling. This episode focuses on the pivotal Battle of Helm's Deep and the groundbreaking introduction of Gollum, a character that redefined motion capture in film. Gollum's evolution from CGI concept to a fully realized character, is thanks to Andy Serkis' groundbreaking performance.
The filming for The Two Towers included gruelling night shoots, and the sheer scale of the battle scenes meant that the crew ended up with "I survived Helm's Deep" t-shirts. It was a monumental filmmaking achievement, taking months to shoot under challenging conditions.
The Lord of the Rings wouldn't be The Lord of the Rings, if it didn't feel like The Lord of the Rings, and esteemed Tolkien illustrators Alan Lee and John Howe were brought on as conceptual designers, ensuring visual continuity with the imagery many readers associated with the books. The artistry behind the sets and props in the series reflects a rich history, with every detail crafted to enhance the authenticity of Middle Earth.
We wants it, we needs it.
This episode is Part 2 of a three-part story, as well as Part 3 of a five-part group of episodes. You probably should take a listen to the previous episode, if you haven't!
I would love to hear your thoughts on The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers [Part 3 of 5] !
Verbal Diorama is now an award-winning podcast! Best Movie Podcast in the inaugural Ear Worthy Independent Podcast Awards and is also now nominated for the Earworm Award at the 2025 Golden Lobes.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(03:06):
Hi, everyone. I'm Em. Andwelcome to verbal diorama, episode
299, the Lord of the Rings,the Two Towers. This is the podcast
that's all about the historyand legacy of movies you know and
movies you don't. That it'slike in the great stories, listeners,
the ones that really mattered.Full of darkness and danger they
were. And sometimes you didn'twant to know the end because how
(03:27):
could the end be happy? Howcould the world go back to the way
it was when so much bad hadhappened? But in the end, it's only
a passing thing, this shadow.Even darkness must pass. A new day
will come. And when the sunshines, it'll shine out the clearer.
Those were the stories thatstayed with you that meant something,
even if you were too small tounderstand why. But I think, listeners,
(03:51):
I do understand. I know now,folk in those stories had lots of
chances of turning back, onlythey didn't. They kept going because
they were holding ontosomething. That there's some good
in the world, listeners. Andit's worth fighting for. Welcome
to Verbal Diorama. Whether youare a regular returning listener,
whether you are a brand newlistener to this podcast and you're
(04:14):
turning up 299 episodes later.Thank you for being here. Thank you
for choosing to listen to thispodcast. As always, I am delighted
to have you here for thehistory and legacy of the Lord of
the Rings, the Two Towers.Huge, huge. Thank you to everyone
who listens to this podcastand has continued to listen to and
support this podcast over thelast six years and very, very almost
(04:38):
300 episodes. It means so muchto have you here with me on this
journey. Kind of a bit likethe journey that Frodo and Sam are
on in this movie. It does feela little bit like Verbal Diorama
is taking a trip to Mordorbecause nothing ever gets easier
on this podcast. It only seemsto get more difficult. But I am so
(05:00):
happy to have you here and I'mreally, genuinely so grateful for
your support. It really meansso much that people continue to love
this podcast. I've had somelovely feedback about recent episodes
of this podcast as well. Andgenuinely, it means the absolute
world. I love doing thispodcast. I hope to do this podcast
for a long time going forward,but for now, doing these episodes
(05:23):
has genuinely been one of thebiggest joys I think I've ever done
for this podcast, but also oneof the most difficult things I've
ever had to accomplish on thispodcast. Because the Lord of the
Rings is huge, Tolkien ismassive, and these movies are immense.
And it's the sort of thingthat there is no way I could cover
(05:46):
every single thing about thesemovies on this podcast. There is
simply no way. Because theworld that Tolkien built is so immense
and so detailed and sointricate and honestly, I am not
a Tolkien scholar, I am just afan of these movies. But I hope that
I do them the tiniest amountof justice that they deserve. And
(06:09):
we are here literally the Runup to the 300th episode so this episode
is basically the third of afive part episode on the complete
history and legacy of the Lordof the Rings, focusing on Peter Jackson's
trilogy, but sandwichedbetween two animated versions. The
first was Ralph Bakshi's theLord of the Rings from 1978 and then
(06:31):
the last one, the last episodewill be on the Lord of the Rings,
the War of the Rohirrim, whichcame out last year in 2024. So if
you haven't listened to thevery first episode of this five episode
series, you technically don'tneed to. But I would recommend it
because it goes into Tolkien'shistory, his estate, and his estate's
(06:54):
control of the material isimportant when we get to Jackson's
movies as well as Saul Zain'slink with the rights. Now, as I mentioned,
last episode, the estatedidn't have anything to do with Jackson's
adaptations, but Saul Zain isa really important figure in the
general story of the Lord ofthe Rings and specifically how the
(07:15):
Lord of the Rings gotcinematic adaptations in the first
place. So you don't need tohave listened to the initial episode
on the Lord of the Rings,1978, and the General history of
the Lord of the Rings, whichwas episode 297, but you really do
need to have listened to theprevious episode on the Fellowship
of the Ring because that givesyou the introduction to Peter Jackson's
(07:37):
part of the story. So if youhaven't listened to the last episode,
stop this one now, please, andlisten to that one first. So although
it's a five part story, thisepisode is technically the second
of three interconnectedstories about Peter Jackson's the
Lord of the Rings trilogy. Thelast episode focused on the beginning
(07:58):
of his vision for the series,his dealings with Miramax, the move
to New Line Cinema, thevarious changes that he made to the
source material and specificson the Fellowship of the Ring, including
the casting choices for theseries and the incredible costume
design as well. This episodewill be focused on the Two Towers,
the Battle of Helm's Deep, andthe introduction of and technology
(08:21):
surrounding Gollum, as well asthe production and art design choices
for the series. The nextepisode, which is also the 300th,
will be primarily on theReturn of the King. I'm also going
to go into the rest of thevisual effects by Weta Workshop and
obviously some of thepractical effects as well, the makeup
and prosthetics, the musicacross all of the movies by Howard
(08:43):
Shaw, how that movie becameone of the biggest Academy Award
winning films of all time, andthe everlasting legacy of these movies
from the fan culture and thento setting a precedent that Peter
Jackson's Hobbit trilogy thenhad to follow. And the final episode
will be on the War of theRohirrim. And the effect the Lord
of the Rings and the Hobbithas had on New Zealand's tourism
(09:06):
and film industries, therights issues surrounding the Lord
of the Rings and the future ofthe franchise going forward. So that's
just a general summary ofwhere we're at and I hope that all
made sense. But like Gandalfthe White, I have been resurrected
from last episode to help saveMiddle Earth from the forces of Sauron.
(09:26):
I'm going round. I'm freeingkings from curses more powerful than
I was the last time. Maybewe'll see how I get on. What we need
is a few good taters. What doI mean? Potatoes, of course. Here's
the trailer for the Lord ofthe Rings, the Two Towers. Not sure
(09:46):
if you heard, but apparentlythey're taking the Hobbits to Isengard.
(11:49):
The Fellowship is broken.Sauron's power is growing stronger.
While venturing onto Mordor,Frodo and Sam come across the creature
Gollum who is forever consumedby the Ring's power. Meanwhile, Aragorn,
Gandalf, Legolas and Gimlimeet up with new allies in the plains
of Rohan. Together they mustwork to defend the people of Rohan
(12:10):
against Sauron's puppetSaruman as he unleashes his armies
from Isengard. All the whileSauron prepares to launch an attack
on Gondor. The war for theRing begins here. Let's run through
the cast. We obviously havelots of returning cast and some new
cast as well. We have ElijahWood as Frodo Baggins, Ian McKellen
(12:31):
as Gandalf Viggo Mortensen asAragorn Sean Astin as Samwise Gamgee
Andy Serkis as Gollum, BillyBoyd as Peregrine Took, Dominic Monaghan
as Meriadoc Brandybuck JohnRhys Davis as Gimli and the voice
of Treebeard. Orlando Bloom asLegolas Bernard Hill as Theoden Miranda
(12:55):
Otto as Eowyn David Wenham asFaramir Brad Dourif as Grima Wormtongue
Karl Urban as Eoma Liv Tyleras Arwen Cate Blanchett as Galadriel,
Christopher Lee as Saruman theWhite and Hugo Weaving as Elrond.
(13:16):
The Lord of the the Two Towershas a screenplay by Fran Walsh, Philippa
Boyens, Stephen Sinclair andPeter Jackson, was directed by Peter
Jackson and was based on theTwo Towers by J.R.R. tolkien. $868
million, 13 Academy Awardnominations and four wins later,
(13:37):
the Fellowship of the Ring wasalways going to be a spectacle, but
it was nothing compared to thewelcome the production got on Return
to Wellington. After the Oscarceremony, the Wellington airport
staff laid out a red carpetand the staff of Weta lined the arrivals
hall to greet Richard Taylorand his Best Visual Effects Oscar.
(13:58):
It was the recognition theyneeded that New Zealand's visual
effects industry was the bestin the industry and the Lord of the
Rings had helped them achievethat. Taylor had purchased 100 miniature
Oscars for his team and handedthem all out. It was A team effort
and a fitting end to the storyof the Fellowship of the Ring. But
(14:19):
as far as this complete storyis concerned, the story is just beginning
and obviously the story startswith JRR Tolkien. Tolkien famously
changed his mind often onwhich of the two towers the title
of his book was referencing.He named five towers in the Saruman's
(14:40):
dwelling Orfanc, Barad Dur,Sauron's Tower, Cirith Ungol, where
the Orcs capture Frodo, MinasTirith of the Kingdom of Gondor,
and Minas Morgul occupied bythe Nine Nazgul. He initially considered
leaving it vague or up tointerpretation, but in a letter in
1953 he named the ambiguoustwo towers as Orthanc and Barad Daw.
(15:04):
In a later illustration hedrew himself and a note at the end
of the Fellowship of the Ring,the towers were identified as Minas
Morgul and Orthanc, and theseare seen as Tolkien's chosen two
towers. But like many thingsin a movie adaptation, changes are
necessary and the two towersof this two towers aren't Orthanc
(15:25):
and Minas Morgul, but Orthancand Barad Dur to symbolise the evil
alliance out to destroy MiddleEarth. The film's narrative has Saruman
openly outing himself asSauron's servant, whereas this is
never really mentioned in thebooks and there's a few notable differences
in the film's restructurednarrative. While Tolkien's novel
(15:45):
is split into two distinctparts, following Frodo and Sam and
then the other characters,Peter Jackson chose to intercut between
storylines to maintainmomentum and engagement. Faramir's
characterization is alsochanged in the book. Faramir immediately
understands the Ring's dangerand helps Frodo, but in the film
he initially plans to take theRing to Gondor, creating additional
(16:08):
conflict. The film alsochanges Treebeard's decision making
process. In the book, the Entsdecide to attack Isengard during
the Entmoot. In the film, theyinitially decide against it until
Pippin tricks Treebeard intoseeing Saruman's destruction of the
trees. Frodo and Sam'sencounter with Shelob was moved to
the third film, which thenleft Faramir as an obstacle for Frodo
(16:32):
and Sam. The moviesignificantly expands the battle
of Helm's Deep and places itat the climax. The book treats it
more briefly with lessemphasis on Aragorn's role and without
the arrival of the elves,which was added to the movie to facilitate
the arrival of Arwen to fightalongside Aragorn, which was changed
after Fans reacted poorly. LivTyler had to reshoot scenes of Arwen
(16:56):
leaving for the west and alsoflashback scenes. Obviously the elves
fighting was retained, whichsegues perfectly into the creation
of Helm's Deep, which was amassive undertaking that combined
practical sets, miniatures,digital effects and innovative filmmaking
techniques. When New LineCinema bought the project off Miramax,
(17:17):
they were sold by thepromotional video Peter Jackson had
made. Part of that videoincluded the miniatures already made
by production designer AlanLee. And Helm's Deep was one of the
first miniatures made for theseries. The main physical Helm's
Deep set was built at DryCreek Quarry near Wellington in New
Zealand. It included a fullscale version of the main wall, about
(17:40):
a quarter of the fortressstanding approximately 40ft tall.
The main gate and causewaywere built to full scale. The Hornberg,
the central tower and keep,was constructed partially at full
scale. And there were alsoworking defensive platforms, stairs
and battlements where actorscould perform. This physical set
was large enough toaccommodate hundreds of actors and
(18:03):
stunt performers for thebattle sequences. And it was made
using lightweight materialslike polystyrene and plywood covered
with plaster to create thestone appearance. To film the wider
shots of Helm's Deep, WetaWorkshop created what they call bigatures,
which are extremely detailedlarge scale miniatures. These included
(18:23):
a 1/4 scale model of theentire fortress measuring about 50ft
wide, with detailed stoneworkand weathering effects used for forced
perspective shots, plusminiature figures to populate the
model for certain shots. WhenMiramax put the project in turnaround,
they sent a producer to ensureeverything was packed up, including
the miniature they'd made forHelm's Deep. The team delayed breaking
(18:47):
up the miniature to the verylast minute. And then new lines swooped
in, saved the day and and mostimportantly saved the miniature from
being dismantled and probablyalso destroyed in the process. These
bigotures were filmed usingspecial camera techniques to make
them appear full sized. In thefinal movie, they used a sweeping
120 foot crane that wasmounted on 40 foot containers. This
(19:11):
allowed them to use a 160 footcrane shot for the Deeping wall.
In all, there were 72miniatures built for the Lord of
the Rings trilogy. Do you wantto know how many were built for the
Hobbit trilogy? I'm going totell you, even though I'm not really
talking about the Hobbit. Butthere were 72 built for the Lord
of the Rings. There were zerobuilt for the Hobbit. And maybe that
(19:33):
just goes into why the Lord ofthe Rings and the Hobbit feels so
distinctly different. WetaDigital Extended both the physical
sets and miniatures withcomputer graphics and I'm going to
go into the majority of the CGvisual effects next episode, but
specifically to Helm's Deep.Digital extensions added the mountain
backdrop behind the fortressand the huge armies of Uruk Hai were
(19:57):
partially created with Weta'sproprietary crowd simulation software
Massive or Multiple AgentSimulation System in virtual environment.
Massive was created by StephenRegelius and allows each agent, or
in this case individual Orc,to each act with their own unique
behaviors and actions, usingAI to react realistically to their
(20:20):
surroundings by utilizing prerecorded animation clips, Massive
would go on to be used in manyfuture productions including Rise
of the Planet of the Apes,Avatar, World War Z, Black Panther
and Endgame. The entire Helm'sDeep sequence took approximately
120 days to film, with battlescenes alone requiring about four
(20:43):
months of night sheets indifficult weather conditions. One
of the most ambitious battlesequences ever filmed at that time.
It was so grueling and intensethat the crew received commemorative
T shirts with the slogan Isurvived Helm's Deep. At the end
of the schedule. Some peoplereferred to it as Hell's Deep. Filming
(21:03):
the nighttime battle presentedsignificant challenges. The set was
rigged with extensiveartificial rain systems, special
lighting, simulated lightningand torchlight, and multiple camera
units worked simultaneously tocapture different aspects of the
battle. They needed so manyextras that they literally hired
everyone who was available,regardless of height or stature,
(21:27):
including picking people withthe right hair to save on wigs. They
disguised a lot of the femaleextras as men for the Rohan soldiers,
specifically because theyneeded people who could ride horses.
There were 300 to 400 elvesand 300 to 400 uruk hai, plus the
rest of the cast, meaning atleast 1,000 physical people, with
(21:48):
the rest created by Massive.By the time they finished Helm's
Deep, the director ofphotography, John Cavill, had shot
a million feet of film. Therewas even a blink and you'll miss
it. Animatronic puppet of anUruk Hai in the scene where they're
yelling and banging theirshield and on verbal diorama. We
love a good animatronic puppetand I'm going to come to another
(22:10):
one a bit later in thisepisode too. This movie is 23 years
old this year and even 23years later, the battle of Helm's
Deep is still regarded as oneof the greatest on screen battles.
Also regarded as one of thegreatest things on screen Even after
23 years of computer generatedimagery and motion capture, is Gollum.
(22:34):
And Gollum is a revolutionarycharacter when it comes to motion
Capture and cg. You'llremember that we do briefly meet
Gollum in the Fellowship ofthe Ring, but he's hidden in shadow.
Even with the shadow though,he looks different between then and
this movie where he plays asignificant role. And there is a
(22:55):
reason for this, becauseoriginally Andy Serkis was hired
just to provide Gollum's voiceand Gollum was going to be a solely
CGI character. But PeterJackson was so impressed by Serkis
audition tape that they choseto use him on set as well. Gollum's
CGI model was redesigned in2001 when Serkis was cast as Smeagol,
(23:17):
so it was believable thatSmeagol could then transform into
Gollum. The model shown in theFellowship of the Ring is the original
Gollum CGI model. Scenes thatfeature that model in the Two Towers
were reanimated to the newGollum over Christmas 2001. Andy
Serkis was originally meant toappear in the Two Towers as himself
(23:38):
before becoming Gollum, butthis was actually moved to the Return
of the King. Andy Serkisperformed on set alongside the other
actors, wearing a white suitrather than a full motion capture
suit during principalphotography, and this allowed for
genuine interaction withElijah Wood and Sean Astin. Many
scenes were filmed twice, onewith Serkis physically in the scene,
(24:01):
acting with the other actors,and one without him so that the digital
character could be insertedlater. After principal photography,
Serkis performed in a motioncapture studio where his movements
were digitally recorded forthe Two Towers. During motion capture
sessions, a separate camerarecorded close ups of his face to
reference his expressions.Weta Digital developed new systems
(24:24):
to capture the nuances ofSerkis facial expressions. Though
much of the facial animationwas still done by hand and this included
Serkis actual eye twitches.Gollum's eyes were built with 5,000
polygons. A quarter of thegeometry for all of Gollum was just
in his eyes for context. Thisteam would go on to make Elita battle
(24:47):
Angel in 2019 with anothermotion capture performance for the
character of Alita in thatmovie. Alita's eyes were made of
9 million polygons. So just tocompare the technology and how it's
improved in that time period,we've gone from 5,000 polygons in
2002 to 9 million polygons in2019. Sculptors created physical
(25:11):
models of Gollum that servedas a reference for the digital artists.
Gollum was created as a fullydigital 3D character with unprecedented
anatomical detail, includingmuscles, skin textures and realistic
eyes. Unlike previous CGcharacters which were based on the
Geometry of the skeletonunderneath. For Gollum, the movement
(25:31):
was based on the muscles underthe skin. So instead of the skin
being pulled by the skeleton,it was being pulled by the muscles.
Detailed subsurface scatteringtechniques were developed to make
Gollum's skin look translucentand realistic rather than plastic,
like his skin tones took fourhours per frame to render. Subsurface
(25:52):
scattering was what clinchedthe Oscar win. This technology was
created for Gollum and isstill used for CG creatures to this
day. Weta started working onall of these systems in 1999, but
they really didn't need themworking 100% until 2002. For the
two Towers, where you wouldsee Gollum in all his glory for the
(26:13):
first time. More refinementswould come for Gollum for the Return
of the King too. The teamdidn't sit on their laurels for the
Two Towers. They shot AndySerkis on a motion capture stage
where he watched playbackfootage and acted like he was there.
But for the Return of theKing, Serkis was actually on set
interacting with others whileperforming the motion capture. So
(26:35):
the advancement in technologywas playing out behind the scenes
too. They would go through 12sets of motion capture rigs purely
because of Serkishyperactivity on set. And I just
quickly want to shout out oneof our favorite Ents, Treebeard,
who despite his name is not abeardy tree, but an Ent and who also
doesn't look like a Parsnip.This time round, shout out to the
(26:58):
original Parsnip beard. WhileCGI was used for some of Treebeard's
scenes, a remarkable fullsized animatronic puppet was built
for the close interaction withthe Hobbit characters. The Treebeard
puppet stood approximately14ft tall, making it one of the largest
animatronic figures createdfor the film. The animatronic Treebeard
(27:20):
had a steel internal frameworkand hydraulic systems, foam latex
bark exterior with detailedtexturing that was molded from polyurethane
molds of actual tree bark. Hewas decorated with real twigs, moss
and plant materials for addedauthenticity and had flexible joints
allowing for movement. Hisface had animatronic eyes capable
(27:42):
of blinking and looking indifferent directions. A mechanical
mouth system for lipsynchronization and branch like eyebrows
and beard that could moveexpressively. He had puppeteers moving
his face and body as well ascomputer controlled hydraulics. For
the scenes where Merry andPippin are riding on him, they are
(28:02):
actually on the Animatronic onspecial seated platforms with safety
systems in place. And it wouldhave been so easy to make Tree Beard
completely cgi, but as I thinkwe're all discovering in these episodes,
myself included, Peter Jacksonnever took the easy option on anything
for any of these movies. Thepractical puppet matched the digital
(28:24):
version they used for wideshots and walking scenes. The digital
version took between 28 and 48hours per frame to render. Treebeard
was brought to life vocally byJohn Rhys Davis, who also played
Gimli, and his referencefootage was also used for subtle
facial expressions. When itcame to the look of Middle Earth,
the visual identity of thefilms was largely shaped by two renowned
(28:47):
Tolkien illustrators. Jacksonhired illustrator and conceptual
designer Alan Lee, whoillustrated the 1992 centenary edition
of the Lord of the Rings. Leetook his inspiration from William
Morris, who was alsoinspiration to Tolkien himself. Both
Tolkien and Morris went toExeter College, Oxford were fans
(29:08):
of Icelandic language andNorse mythology, and Tolkien read
Morris and A.J. wyatt's 1895ninth English translation of Beowulf.
Tolkien's original artwork wasinfluenced by Morris. Lee was known
for his illustrated editionsof the Hobbit and the Lord of the
Rings and his atmosphericpainterly landscapes and architectural
(29:30):
designs. John Howe was alsohired, primarily known for the COVID
artwork to several Tolkienpublications and for his dramatic
character designs. Creaturesand weapons Howe designed most of
the weapons of Middle Earth,which were then forged by swordsmith
Peter Leon, with each swordtaking three to six days to handforge.
(29:52):
Peter Leon had started makingweapons and armour in 1984 because
you couldn't get equipment toNew Zealand and a childhood learning
about the ancient world andmedieval Europe led to a university
life playing fantasy roleplaying games for which he needed
roleplay weapons and if youcan't get the swords, Hun, you've
(30:12):
gotta make the swords. Leonwas asked to make the swords for
the Lord of the Rings after acareer forging his own fantasy weapons
since 1994, he made most ofthe hero swords, the aluminium stunt
blades for the fight scenes aswell as many other pieces. His experience
as a sword maker and in periodcombat techniques as well as riding
(30:33):
and jousting led to weaponsthat were both visually and functionally
correct. Alan Lee and JohnHowe were brought on as conceptual
designers, ensuring visualcontinuity with the imagery many
readers associate with thebooks. And just like the costuming
I talked about last episode,each culture, Elven, Dwarven, human,
(30:53):
Hobbit and Orc had distinctarchitectural styles, color palettes,
materials and craftsmanshiptechniques. The art team approached
Middle Earth as a realhistorical world with 7000 years
of history rather than just Afantasy construct. Each artifact
and structure was designedwith consideration for how it would
(31:14):
have been made, what materialswere available, the cultural significance
within its society, and how ithad aged and weathered over time.
Nothing on this movie wasrecycled from any other movie or
rented from any other company.Everything you see on screen was
made from scratch for thesemovies and for these movies only.
(31:36):
New Zealand artisans fromacross the country were tasked with
making realistic props for theLord of the Rings, including glassblowers,
ceramists, furniture makers,leather artists and metal workers.
Like the sets, the props werecreated in two scales to serve the
variety of characters on theproject, from Hobbit to Gandalf sized.
(31:58):
Everything from furniture,weapons and food was produced in
both small and large sizes.And just like the clothing, the visual
language of the Elven designused organic flowing lines inspired
by Art Nouveau nature basedmotifs featuring leaves, vines and
stars. Muted color palettes ofblues, silvers, pale greens and whites
(32:18):
and elves predominantlyintegrated their buildings with natural
surroundings. Dwarven designused geometric angular patterns and
strong symmetry. Was builtwith heavy stonework for durability
and scale, with elaborateengravings in rich warm colors with
golds and deep reds.Everything was illuminated from below
to show the Dwarves as amining community. I mentioned the
(32:42):
building of Hobbiton lastepisode, but the Hobbit holes were
based on rounded architecturethat was deliberately imperfect and
handcrafted. Everything wasmade to feel warm and comfortable
using natural materials withearth tones, greens and yellows.
Mount Sunday in New Zealand'sCanterbury region was used for the
location for the exterior ofEdoras, Rohan's capital. Rohan used
(33:07):
Anglo Saxon and Norseaesthetics with wooden construction
and again, like the clothing,horse motifs integrated into architecture
and decorations. And just likefor Gondor with its classical Byzantine
and Egyptian influences andsymbolic tree motifs throughout.
Decorative elements,unsurprisingly for a place with the
(33:27):
literal eye of Sauron everwatching. Mordor's recurring motifs
for its conceptual design wereflames, wheels and eyes, as well
as black volcanic rock andcrude metalwork. Everything was used
to signify that these werelong standing cultures with their
own design languages,alphabets, writing systems, jewelry
(33:47):
styles, textile patterns andarchitectural principles. The languages
specifically were important.Tolkien, as I mentioned in the very
first episode, was a huge fanof linguistics since his childhood
and his created languages wereintegral to Middle Earth. No one
wanted to get the languagewrong. Specialist dialect and creative
(34:08):
language coaches taught theactors Tolkien's elvish language
using phonetics and alsocreated various accents for all the
characters and began trainingand rehearsing with the actors a
month before Filming began.Both coaches were on set, standing
by, listening for dialogue anddialect and also supervised any looping
or dialogue recorded thattakes place after the scenes were
(34:31):
already shot. Productiondesigner Grant Major would say that
the work of Lee and Howe wasfundamental to the project, bringing
their intimate knowledge ofTolkien's Law to the work. Major
oversaw the creation of thelife sized exterior sets, including
the intricate and delicateElvish kingdom of Rivendell, the
grassy knolls of Hobbiton andthe underground interior realms of
(34:53):
the Mines of Moria. He maderealism and exquisite detail a priority,
but with a fantastical twist.The sets for Rivendell were created
to reflect the Elvish culturewhich is highly artistic and intimately
connected to the forest andnature. It appears a place of deep
serenity with archingwalkways, babbling brooks and quiet
(35:14):
wooden gazebos, lendingRivendell a sense of mystery. So
he designed and built a seriesof 40 foot tall towers that shimmer
in the background ofRivendell, suggesting there's more
to Rivendell than meets theeye. Many of major sets were built
at Peter Jackson's WellingtonStudios. This is where he created
the Mines of Moria. Graygranite walls were sprayed constantly
(35:37):
by technicians to appear asglistening, dripping jewel encrusted
caves. These sets not only hadto be visually correct, but also
hard wearing with thousands ofpeople walking through them, including
cast and crew. The sets had towithstand 60 pounds per square foot
of weight. The Two Towers wasalways acknowledged by the crew as
(35:58):
the most difficult film tomake. As the middle part of a trilogy,
it had no beginning or end,with the additional problem of intercutting
storylines appropriately.Peter Jackson had initially intended
to edit all three filmshimself at once, assisted by Jamie
Selkirk. This soon proved tooambitious, so John Gilbert was hired
to edit the Fellowship of theRing, Michael J. Horton for the Two
(36:21):
Towers and Jamie Selkirk onthe Return of the King. The process
of editing three films back toback resulted in some scenes, including
the reforging of Anguril,Gollum's backstory and Saruman's
demise being moved to theReturn of the King. Saruman's death
would end up being cut fromthe theatrical edition but included
in the extended edition. WhenJackson felt it was not starting
(36:44):
the third film effectivelyenough. Much of what was filmed remained
unused, even in the extendededitions. There is much information
online as to the content ofwhat was filmed and never used. So
I'm not going to go into ithere, but maybe we will get an extended
extended version in thefuture. There is no easy way to segue
(37:05):
into the obligatory Keanureference of this episode. But like
yes episode, I am trying tofind ways to link Keanu Reeves to
the Lord of the Rings, whichis something that I do for pretty
much every episode and onlybecause he literally is the best
of men and the one that I didlast episode I think easily could
(37:25):
have covered all of them, butI wanted to do something different
and literally the only way Icould link him is again via the Matrix
and that is because obviouslyKeanu Reeves starred in the Matrix.
Don't know if you realize, buthe did. Which was directed by the
Wachowskis and the Wachowskisvisual effects team on the Matrix
also included many people whoworked with Weta Digital who would
(37:50):
obviously then go on to workon the visual effects for all of
the Lord of the Rings but arespecifically using it for the Two
Towers. I don't know if thereis any other way to link Keanu Reeves
to the Lord of the Rings fornext episode, but because it's the
300th episode I'm gonna haveto think of something. As I mentioned,
I'm gonna talk about the musicspecifically next episode and I'm
(38:11):
a little bit worried aboutnext episode because it is going
to be so full of everythingelse that I haven't managed to fit
into these two episodes thatI'm worried it's going to be quite
massive. Hopefully not so I'llbe speaking about Howard Shaw's score
next episode, but I mentionedlast episode the website for the
(38:31):
Fellowship of the Ring and thewebsite for the movie was updated
when it came to the release ofthe Two Towers with interactive Middle
Earth maps, character profilesand exclusive behind the scenes content.
Fan sites were given exclusivematerials and early access to content,
but really the biggestmarketing tool for the Two Towers
(38:52):
was the Fellowship of theRing. The first teaser trailer was
attached to Spider man in May2002, which was a strategic leveraging
of another blockbuster'saudience. The second major trailer
focused heavily on the revealof Gollum, showcasing the character
as a major selling point, andlater trailers highlighted the Battle
(39:13):
of Helm's Deep, whichpositioned the movie as more action
packed than its predecessor.The Lord of the the Two Towers premiere
at the Ziegfeld Theater in NewYork on 5 December 2002 and was released
wide on 18 December 2002,which was a year minus a day from
the previous movie and onanother Wednesday as well. But unlike
(39:36):
the Fellowship of the Ring,there was no debuting at number three
in its short first week, theTwo Towers made $40 million in its
first two days, automaticallygoing to number one at the US box
office, beating Made inManhattan. It would stay at number
one for four weeks, onlydropping to third in its fifth week
behind Just Married and CatchMe if youf Can. It remained in the
(39:59):
US top 10 for 10 weeks on aproduction budget of $94 million.
The Two Towers grossed $339.8million domestically in the US and
$583.2 millioninternationally, for a total worldwide
gross of $923 million, makingit the highest grossing film of 2002
(40:22):
and at the time of itsrelease, the third highest grossing
film of all time, not adjustedfor inflation, behind Titanic and
Harry Potter and thePhilosopher's Stone. It also had
the highest internationalopening weekend and the highest opening
weekend of all time until theMatrix Reloaded surpassed it. The
Lord of the the Two Towers hasan approval rating of 95% on rotten
(40:47):
tomatoes, a 3% increase on theFellowship. With the website's consensus
reading the Two Towers balancethis spectacular action with emotional
storytelling, leavingaudiences both wholly satisfied and
eager for the final chapter.The Two Towers received slightly
fewer Academy Awardnominations than the Fellowship of
the Ring. It received severalsix for Best Picture, Best Art Direction,
(41:10):
Best Film Editing, Best Sound,Best Sound Editing, and Best Visual
Effects, winning in twocategories, Best Sound Editing and
Best Visual Effects. It alsoearned nine nominations at the BAFTAs
for Best Film, Best Direction,Best Cinematography, Best Costume
Design, Best Editing, BestMakeup and Hair, Best Production
Design, Best Sound and BestSpecial Visual Effects, leading to
(41:33):
wins in the categories forBest Costume Design and Best Special
Visual Effects. Of a total of222 award nominations, the Two Towers
won a total of 136 awards.Like all of these movies, there is
an extended version with 45minutes of new material, added special
effects and music, and 11minutes of fan club credits. The
(41:56):
theatrical version of the TwoTowers is 179 minutes long. The extended
version is 235 minutes. Justimagine how long that extended extended
version might be should itever be released. And this is where
we leave this chapter ofVerbal Diorama. This is where we
leave episode 299 of VerbalDiorama, with Gollum leading Frodo
(42:19):
and Sam on a dangerous route.The Rohirrim and the Elves have arrived
to save Helm's Deep, and thesurviving Uruk Hai have fled into
the forest, only to beattacked by Treebeard and the Ents.
Sauron will retaliate, butthere's still good in Middle Earth,
and it's on its way to Mordor.But first, Shelob, thank you for
(42:42):
listening. As always, I wouldlove to hear your thoughts on the
Lord of the Rings, the TwoTowers and thank you for your continued
support of this podcast. Ifyou have enjoyed this episode and
you would like to get involvedand help this podcast grow and reach
more people, you can find meand follow me across social media.
I'm at Verbal Diorama. You canlike post, share posts, comment on
(43:04):
posts. You can even contact meas well directly if you wish. You
can tell your friends andfamily about this podcast or about
this episode, or you can leavea rating and review wherever you
found this podcast. And ofcourse the next episode is on the
Lord of the Rings, the Returnof the King and it is also the 300th
episode of this podcast. So itis gonna be a little bit of a big
(43:27):
deal. If you enjoy what I dofor this podcast or you simply want
to support an indie podcasterwho does literally everything on
her own. If you have somespare change and you wish to, you
can financially contribute tothe upkeep of this podcast. Now you
are under no obligation. Thispodcast is free and will remain free.
But if you do enjoy what I doand you get value out of what I do,
(43:50):
There are a couple of ways youcan help. You can make a one off
donation@verbaldiorama.comtips or you can subscribe to the
Patreon to support theshow@verbaldiorama.com Patreon and
all money made goes back intothis podcast by paying for things
like software subscriptions,website hosting or new equipment.
(44:10):
Huge thank you to theincredible patrons of Verbal Diorama,
some of whom have supported mefor many, many years and I am so
grateful for their support.They are Claudia, Simon, Laurel,
Derek, Kat, Andy, Mike, Luke,Michael, Scott, Brendan, Lisa, Sam,
Jack, Dave, Stuart, Nicholas,so Kev, Pete, Heather, Danny, Ali,
(44:32):
Stu, Brett, Philip M, Xenos,Sean, Rhino, Philip K, Adam, Elaine,
Kyle and Aaron. If you do wantto get in touch, you want to say
hi, you want to give me somefeedback or a suggestion, you can
email verbaldioramail.com oryou can go to verbaldiorama.com and
you can fill out the littlecontact form and you can get in touch
(44:52):
with me that way. Or like Isaid before, you can send me a DM
on social media, on Instagramor Blue Sky. I'm not really around
on Twitter, to be honest. Ihave kind of left there because,
you know, it's kind of run bythat person and I don't want to be
associated with that but youcan contact me on other social medias
(45:12):
or on email and I willactually respond to you. And I love
receiving your messages andyour emails. So if you want to get
in touch, please feel free todo so. I would love to hear from
you, but otherwise, pleasejoin me next week for the 300th episode
of this podcast. How crazy isthat? And finally, is there no other
(45:34):
way.
For the women children to getout of the caves? Is there no other
way? There is one passage. Itleads into the mountains. But they
will not get far. The Uruk Haiare too many. Send word for the women
(45:55):
and children to make for themountain pass and barricade the entrance.
So much death. What can men doagainst such reckless hate? Ride
out with me. Ride out and meetthem. For death and glory. For Rohan.
(46:24):
For your people. The sun isrising. Look to my coming at first
night on the fifth day atdawn. Look to the east. Yes. Yes.
(46:51):
The horn of Helm hammer handshall sound in the deep one last
time. Yes. Yes. Let this bethe hour when we draw swords together.
(47:15):
Fell deeds awake. Now forwrath, now for ruin and the red d.
(47:43):
Bye.
Hi, everyone. I'm Em. Andwelcome to verbal diorama, episode
299, the Lord of the Rings,the Two Towers. This is the podcast
that's all about the historyand legacy of movies you know and
movies you don't. That it'slike in the great stories, listeners,
the ones that really mattered.Full of darkness and danger they
were. And sometimes you didn'twant to know the end because how
(03:27):
could the end be happy? Howcould the world go back to the way
it was when so much bad hadhappened? But in the end, it's only
a passing thing, this shadow.Even darkness must pass. A new day
will come. And when the sunshines, it'll shine out the clearer.
Those were the stories thatstayed with you that meant something,
even if you were too small tounderstand why. But I think, listeners,
(03:51):
I do understand. I know now,folk in those stories had lots of
chances of turning back, onlythey didn't. They kept going because
they were holding ontosomething. That there's some good
in the world, listeners. Andit's worth fighting for. Welcome
to Verbal Diorama. Whether youare a regular returning listener,
whether you are a brand newlistener to this podcast and you're
(04:14):
turning up 299 episodes later.Thank you for being here. Thank you
for choosing to listen to thispodcast. As always, I am delighted
to have you here for thehistory and legacy of the Lord of
the Rings, the Two Towers.Huge, huge. Thank you to everyone
who listens to this podcastand has continued to listen to and
support this podcast over thelast six years and very, very almost
(04:38):
300 episodes. It means so muchto have you here with me on this
journey. Kind of a bit likethe journey that Frodo and Sam are
on in this movie. It does feela little bit like Verbal Diorama
is taking a trip to Mordorbecause nothing ever gets easier
on this podcast. It only seemsto get more difficult. But I am so
(05:00):
happy to have you here and I'mreally, genuinely so grateful for
your support. It really meansso much that people continue to love
this podcast. I've had somelovely feedback about recent episodes
of this podcast as well. Andgenuinely, it means the absolute
world. I love doing thispodcast. I hope to do this podcast
for a long time going forward,but for now, doing these episodes
(05:23):
has genuinely been one of thebiggest joys I think I've ever done
for this podcast, but also oneof the most difficult things I've
ever had to accomplish on thispodcast. Because the Lord of the
Rings is huge, Tolkien ismassive, and these movies are immense.
And it's the sort of thingthat there is no way I could cover
(05:46):
every single thing about thesemovies on this podcast. There is
simply no way. Because theworld that Tolkien built is so immense
and so detailed and sointricate and honestly, I am not
a Tolkien scholar, I am just afan of these movies. But I hope that
I do them the tiniest amountof justice that they deserve. And
(06:09):
we are here literally the Runup to the 300th episode so this episode
is basically the third of afive part episode on the complete
history and legacy of the Lordof the Rings, focusing on Peter Jackson's
trilogy, but sandwichedbetween two animated versions. The
first was Ralph Bakshi's theLord of the Rings from 1978 and then
(06:31):
the last one, the last episodewill be on the Lord of the Rings,
the War of the Rohirrim, whichcame out last year in 2024. So if
you haven't listened to thevery first episode of this five episode
series, you technically don'tneed to. But I would recommend it
because it goes into Tolkien'shistory, his estate, and his estate's
(06:54):
control of the material isimportant when we get to Jackson's
movies as well as Saul Zain'slink with the rights. Now, as I mentioned,
last episode, the estatedidn't have anything to do with Jackson's
adaptations, but Saul Zain isa really important figure in the
general story of the Lord ofthe Rings and specifically how the
(07:15):
Lord of the Rings gotcinematic adaptations in the first
place. So you don't need tohave listened to the initial episode
on the Lord of the Rings,1978, and the General history of
the Lord of the Rings, whichwas episode 297, but you really do
need to have listened to theprevious episode on the Fellowship
of the Ring because that givesyou the introduction to Peter Jackson's
(07:37):
part of the story. So if youhaven't listened to the last episode,
stop this one now, please, andlisten to that one first. So although
it's a five part story, thisepisode is technically the second
of three interconnectedstories about Peter Jackson's the
Lord of the Rings trilogy. Thelast episode focused on the beginning
(07:58):
of his vision for the series,his dealings with Miramax, the move
to New Line Cinema, thevarious changes that he made to the
source material and specificson the Fellowship of the Ring, including
the casting choices for theseries and the incredible costume
design as well. This episodewill be focused on the Two Towers,
the Battle of Helm's Deep, andthe introduction of and technology
(08:21):
surrounding Gollum, as well asthe production and art design choices
for the series. The nextepisode, which is also the 300th,
will be primarily on theReturn of the King. I'm also going
to go into the rest of thevisual effects by Weta Workshop and
obviously some of thepractical effects as well, the makeup
and prosthetics, the musicacross all of the movies by Howard
(08:43):
Shaw, how that movie becameone of the biggest Academy Award
winning films of all time, andthe everlasting legacy of these movies
from the fan culture and thento setting a precedent that Peter
Jackson's Hobbit trilogy thenhad to follow. And the final episode
will be on the War of theRohirrim. And the effect the Lord
of the Rings and the Hobbithas had on New Zealand's tourism
(09:06):
and film industries, therights issues surrounding the Lord
of the Rings and the future ofthe franchise going forward. So that's
just a general summary ofwhere we're at and I hope that all
made sense. But like Gandalfthe White, I have been resurrected
from last episode to help saveMiddle Earth from the forces of Sauron.
(09:26):
I'm going round. I'm freeingkings from curses more powerful than
I was the last time. Maybewe'll see how I get on. What we need
is a few good taters. What doI mean? Potatoes, of course. Here's
the trailer for the Lord ofthe Rings, the Two Towers. Not sure
(09:46):
if you heard, but apparentlythey're taking the Hobbits to Isengard.
(11:49):
The Fellowship is broken.Sauron's power is growing stronger.
While venturing onto Mordor,Frodo and Sam come across the creature
Gollum who is forever consumedby the Ring's power. Meanwhile, Aragorn,
Gandalf, Legolas and Gimlimeet up with new allies in the plains
of Rohan. Together they mustwork to defend the people of Rohan
(12:10):
against Sauron's puppetSaruman as he unleashes his armies
from Isengard. All the whileSauron prepares to launch an attack
on Gondor. The war for theRing begins here. Let's run through
the cast. We obviously havelots of returning cast and some new
cast as well. We have ElijahWood as Frodo Baggins, Ian McKellen
(12:31):
as Gandalf Viggo Mortensen asAragorn Sean Astin as Samwise Gamgee
Andy Serkis as Gollum, BillyBoyd as Peregrine Took, Dominic Monaghan
as Meriadoc Brandybuck JohnRhys Davis as Gimli and the voice
of Treebeard. Orlando Bloom asLegolas Bernard Hill as Theoden Miranda
(12:55):
Otto as Eowyn David Wenham asFaramir Brad Dourif as Grima Wormtongue
Karl Urban as Eoma Liv Tyleras Arwen Cate Blanchett as Galadriel,
Christopher Lee as Saruman theWhite and Hugo Weaving as Elrond.
(13:16):
The Lord of the the Two Towershas a screenplay by Fran Walsh, Philippa
Boyens, Stephen Sinclair andPeter Jackson, was directed by Peter
Jackson and was based on theTwo Towers by J.R.R. tolkien. $868
million, 13 Academy Awardnominations and four wins later,
(13:37):
the Fellowship of the Ring wasalways going to be a spectacle, but
it was nothing compared to thewelcome the production got on Return
to Wellington. After the Oscarceremony, the Wellington airport
staff laid out a red carpetand the staff of Weta lined the arrivals
hall to greet Richard Taylorand his Best Visual Effects Oscar.
(13:58):
It was the recognition theyneeded that New Zealand's visual
effects industry was the bestin the industry and the Lord of the
Rings had helped them achievethat. Taylor had purchased 100 miniature
Oscars for his team and handedthem all out. It was A team effort
and a fitting end to the storyof the Fellowship of the Ring. But
(14:19):
as far as this complete storyis concerned, the story is just beginning
and obviously the story startswith JRR Tolkien. Tolkien famously
changed his mind often onwhich of the two towers the title
of his book was referencing.He named five towers in the Saruman's
(14:40):
dwelling Orfanc, Barad Dur,Sauron's Tower, Cirith Ungol, where
the Orcs capture Frodo, MinasTirith of the Kingdom of Gondor,
and Minas Morgul occupied bythe Nine Nazgul. He initially considered
leaving it vague or up tointerpretation, but in a letter in
1953 he named the ambiguoustwo towers as Orthanc and Barad Daw.
(15:04):
In a later illustration hedrew himself and a note at the end
of the Fellowship of the Ring,the towers were identified as Minas
Morgul and Orthanc, and theseare seen as Tolkien's chosen two
towers. But like many thingsin a movie adaptation, changes are
necessary and the two towersof this two towers aren't Orthanc
(15:25):
and Minas Morgul, but Orthancand Barad Dur to symbolise the evil
alliance out to destroy MiddleEarth. The film's narrative has Saruman
openly outing himself asSauron's servant, whereas this is
never really mentioned in thebooks and there's a few notable differences
in the film's restructurednarrative. While Tolkien's novel
(15:45):
is split into two distinctparts, following Frodo and Sam and
then the other characters,Peter Jackson chose to intercut between
storylines to maintainmomentum and engagement. Faramir's
characterization is alsochanged in the book. Faramir immediately
understands the Ring's dangerand helps Frodo, but in the film
he initially plans to take theRing to Gondor, creating additional
(16:08):
conflict. The film alsochanges Treebeard's decision making
process. In the book, the Entsdecide to attack Isengard during
the Entmoot. In the film, theyinitially decide against it until
Pippin tricks Treebeard intoseeing Saruman's destruction of the
trees. Frodo and Sam'sencounter with Shelob was moved to
the third film, which thenleft Faramir as an obstacle for Frodo
(16:32):
and Sam. The moviesignificantly expands the battle
of Helm's Deep and places itat the climax. The book treats it
more briefly with lessemphasis on Aragorn's role and without
the arrival of the elves,which was added to the movie to facilitate
the arrival of Arwen to fightalongside Aragorn, which was changed
after Fans reacted poorly. LivTyler had to reshoot scenes of Arwen
(16:56):
leaving for the west and alsoflashback scenes. Obviously the elves
fighting was retained, whichsegues perfectly into the creation
of Helm's Deep, which was amassive undertaking that combined
practical sets, miniatures,digital effects and innovative filmmaking
techniques. When New LineCinema bought the project off Miramax,
(17:17):
they were sold by thepromotional video Peter Jackson had
made. Part of that videoincluded the miniatures already made
by production designer AlanLee. And Helm's Deep was one of the
first miniatures made for theseries. The main physical Helm's
Deep set was built at DryCreek Quarry near Wellington in New
Zealand. It included a fullscale version of the main wall, about
(17:40):
a quarter of the fortressstanding approximately 40ft tall.
The main gate and causewaywere built to full scale. The Hornberg,
the central tower and keep,was constructed partially at full
scale. And there were alsoworking defensive platforms, stairs
and battlements where actorscould perform. This physical set
was large enough toaccommodate hundreds of actors and
(18:03):
stunt performers for thebattle sequences. And it was made
using lightweight materialslike polystyrene and plywood covered
with plaster to create thestone appearance. To film the wider
shots of Helm's Deep, WetaWorkshop created what they call bigatures,
which are extremely detailedlarge scale miniatures. These included
(18:23):
a 1/4 scale model of theentire fortress measuring about 50ft
wide, with detailed stoneworkand weathering effects used for forced
perspective shots, plusminiature figures to populate the
model for certain shots. WhenMiramax put the project in turnaround,
they sent a producer to ensureeverything was packed up, including
the miniature they'd made forHelm's Deep. The team delayed breaking
(18:47):
up the miniature to the verylast minute. And then new lines swooped
in, saved the day and and mostimportantly saved the miniature from
being dismantled and probablyalso destroyed in the process. These
bigotures were filmed usingspecial camera techniques to make
them appear full sized. In thefinal movie, they used a sweeping
120 foot crane that wasmounted on 40 foot containers. This
(19:11):
allowed them to use a 160 footcrane shot for the Deeping wall.
In all, there were 72miniatures built for the Lord of
the Rings trilogy. Do you wantto know how many were built for the
Hobbit trilogy? I'm going totell you, even though I'm not really
talking about the Hobbit. Butthere were 72 built for the Lord
of the Rings. There were zerobuilt for the Hobbit. And maybe that
(19:33):
just goes into why the Lord ofthe Rings and the Hobbit feels so
distinctly different. WetaDigital Extended both the physical
sets and miniatures withcomputer graphics and I'm going to
go into the majority of the CGvisual effects next episode, but
specifically to Helm's Deep.Digital extensions added the mountain
backdrop behind the fortressand the huge armies of Uruk Hai were
(19:57):
partially created with Weta'sproprietary crowd simulation software
Massive or Multiple AgentSimulation System in virtual environment.
Massive was created by StephenRegelius and allows each agent, or
in this case individual Orc,to each act with their own unique
behaviors and actions, usingAI to react realistically to their
(20:20):
surroundings by utilizing prerecorded animation clips, Massive
would go on to be used in manyfuture productions including Rise
of the Planet of the Apes,Avatar, World War Z, Black Panther
and Endgame. The entire Helm'sDeep sequence took approximately
120 days to film, with battlescenes alone requiring about four
(20:43):
months of night sheets indifficult weather conditions. One
of the most ambitious battlesequences ever filmed at that time.
It was so grueling and intensethat the crew received commemorative
T shirts with the slogan Isurvived Helm's Deep. At the end
of the schedule. Some peoplereferred to it as Hell's Deep. Filming
(21:03):
the nighttime battle presentedsignificant challenges. The set was
rigged with extensiveartificial rain systems, special
lighting, simulated lightningand torchlight, and multiple camera
units worked simultaneously tocapture different aspects of the
battle. They needed so manyextras that they literally hired
everyone who was available,regardless of height or stature,
(21:27):
including picking people withthe right hair to save on wigs. They
disguised a lot of the femaleextras as men for the Rohan soldiers,
specifically because theyneeded people who could ride horses.
There were 300 to 400 elvesand 300 to 400 uruk hai, plus the
rest of the cast, meaning atleast 1,000 physical people, with
(21:48):
the rest created by Massive.By the time they finished Helm's
Deep, the director ofphotography, John Cavill, had shot
a million feet of film. Therewas even a blink and you'll miss
it. Animatronic puppet of anUruk Hai in the scene where they're
yelling and banging theirshield and on verbal diorama. We
love a good animatronic puppetand I'm going to come to another
(22:10):
one a bit later in thisepisode too. This movie is 23 years
old this year and even 23years later, the battle of Helm's
Deep is still regarded as oneof the greatest on screen battles.
Also regarded as one of thegreatest things on screen Even after
23 years of computer generatedimagery and motion capture, is Gollum.
(22:34):
And Gollum is a revolutionarycharacter when it comes to motion
Capture and cg. You'llremember that we do briefly meet
Gollum in the Fellowship ofthe Ring, but he's hidden in shadow.
Even with the shadow though,he looks different between then and
this movie where he plays asignificant role. And there is a
(22:55):
reason for this, becauseoriginally Andy Serkis was hired
just to provide Gollum's voiceand Gollum was going to be a solely
CGI character. But PeterJackson was so impressed by Serkis
audition tape that they choseto use him on set as well. Gollum's
CGI model was redesigned in2001 when Serkis was cast as Smeagol,
(23:17):
so it was believable thatSmeagol could then transform into
Gollum. The model shown in theFellowship of the Ring is the original
Gollum CGI model. Scenes thatfeature that model in the Two Towers
were reanimated to the newGollum over Christmas 2001. Andy
Serkis was originally meant toappear in the Two Towers as himself
(23:38):
before becoming Gollum, butthis was actually moved to the Return
of the King. Andy Serkisperformed on set alongside the other
actors, wearing a white suitrather than a full motion capture
suit during principalphotography, and this allowed for
genuine interaction withElijah Wood and Sean Astin. Many
scenes were filmed twice, onewith Serkis physically in the scene,
(24:01):
acting with the other actors,and one without him so that the digital
character could be insertedlater. After principal photography,
Serkis performed in a motioncapture studio where his movements
were digitally recorded forthe Two Towers. During motion capture
sessions, a separate camerarecorded close ups of his face to
reference his expressions.Weta Digital developed new systems
(24:24):
to capture the nuances ofSerkis facial expressions. Though
much of the facial animationwas still done by hand and this included
Serkis actual eye twitches.Gollum's eyes were built with 5,000
polygons. A quarter of thegeometry for all of Gollum was just
in his eyes for context. Thisteam would go on to make Elita battle
(24:47):
Angel in 2019 with anothermotion capture performance for the
character of Alita in thatmovie. Alita's eyes were made of
9 million polygons. So just tocompare the technology and how it's
improved in that time period,we've gone from 5,000 polygons in
2002 to 9 million polygons in2019. Sculptors created physical
(25:11):
models of Gollum that servedas a reference for the digital artists.
Gollum was created as a fullydigital 3D character with unprecedented
anatomical detail, includingmuscles, skin textures and realistic
eyes. Unlike previous CGcharacters which were based on the
Geometry of the skeletonunderneath. For Gollum, the movement
(25:31):
was based on the muscles underthe skin. So instead of the skin
being pulled by the skeleton,it was being pulled by the muscles.
Detailed subsurface scatteringtechniques were developed to make
Gollum's skin look translucentand realistic rather than plastic,
like his skin tones took fourhours per frame to render. Subsurface
(25:52):
scattering was what clinchedthe Oscar win. This technology was
created for Gollum and isstill used for CG creatures to this
day. Weta started working onall of these systems in 1999, but
they really didn't need themworking 100% until 2002. For the
two Towers, where you wouldsee Gollum in all his glory for the
(26:13):
first time. More refinementswould come for Gollum for the Return
of the King too. The teamdidn't sit on their laurels for the
Two Towers. They shot AndySerkis on a motion capture stage
where he watched playbackfootage and acted like he was there.
But for the Return of theKing, Serkis was actually on set
interacting with others whileperforming the motion capture. So
(26:35):
the advancement in technologywas playing out behind the scenes
too. They would go through 12sets of motion capture rigs purely
because of Serkishyperactivity on set. And I just
quickly want to shout out oneof our favorite Ents, Treebeard,
who despite his name is not abeardy tree, but an Ent and who also
doesn't look like a Parsnip.This time round, shout out to the
(26:58):
original Parsnip beard. WhileCGI was used for some of Treebeard's
scenes, a remarkable fullsized animatronic puppet was built
for the close interaction withthe Hobbit characters. The Treebeard
puppet stood approximately14ft tall, making it one of the largest
animatronic figures createdfor the film. The animatronic Treebeard
(27:20):
had a steel internal frameworkand hydraulic systems, foam latex
bark exterior with detailedtexturing that was molded from polyurethane
molds of actual tree bark. Hewas decorated with real twigs, moss
and plant materials for addedauthenticity and had flexible joints
allowing for movement. Hisface had animatronic eyes capable
(27:42):
of blinking and looking indifferent directions. A mechanical
mouth system for lipsynchronization and branch like eyebrows
and beard that could moveexpressively. He had puppeteers moving
his face and body as well ascomputer controlled hydraulics. For
the scenes where Merry andPippin are riding on him, they are
(28:02):
actually on the Animatronic onspecial seated platforms with safety
systems in place. And it wouldhave been so easy to make Tree Beard
completely cgi, but as I thinkwe're all discovering in these episodes,
myself included, Peter Jacksonnever took the easy option on anything
for any of these movies. Thepractical puppet matched the digital
(28:24):
version they used for wideshots and walking scenes. The digital
version took between 28 and 48hours per frame to render. Treebeard
was brought to life vocally byJohn Rhys Davis, who also played
Gimli, and his referencefootage was also used for subtle
facial expressions. When itcame to the look of Middle Earth,
the visual identity of thefilms was largely shaped by two renowned
(28:47):
Tolkien illustrators. Jacksonhired illustrator and conceptual
designer Alan Lee, whoillustrated the 1992 centenary edition
of the Lord of the Rings. Leetook his inspiration from William
Morris, who was alsoinspiration to Tolkien himself. Both
Tolkien and Morris went toExeter College, Oxford were fans
(29:08):
of Icelandic language andNorse mythology, and Tolkien read
Morris and A.J. wyatt's 1895ninth English translation of Beowulf.
Tolkien's original artwork wasinfluenced by Morris. Lee was known
for his illustrated editionsof the Hobbit and the Lord of the
Rings and his atmosphericpainterly landscapes and architectural
(29:30):
designs. John Howe was alsohired, primarily known for the COVID
artwork to several Tolkienpublications and for his dramatic
character designs. Creaturesand weapons Howe designed most of
the weapons of Middle Earth,which were then forged by swordsmith
Peter Leon, with each swordtaking three to six days to handforge.
(29:52):
Peter Leon had started makingweapons and armour in 1984 because
you couldn't get equipment toNew Zealand and a childhood learning
about the ancient world andmedieval Europe led to a university
life playing fantasy roleplaying games for which he needed
roleplay weapons and if youcan't get the swords, Hun, you've
(30:12):
gotta make the swords. Leonwas asked to make the swords for
the Lord of the Rings after acareer forging his own fantasy weapons
since 1994, he made most ofthe hero swords, the aluminium stunt
blades for the fight scenes aswell as many other pieces. His experience
as a sword maker and in periodcombat techniques as well as riding
(30:33):
and jousting led to weaponsthat were both visually and functionally
correct. Alan Lee and JohnHowe were brought on as conceptual
designers, ensuring visualcontinuity with the imagery many
readers associate with thebooks. And just like the costuming
I talked about last episode,each culture, Elven, Dwarven, human,
(30:53):
Hobbit and Orc had distinctarchitectural styles, color palettes,
materials and craftsmanshiptechniques. The art team approached
Middle Earth as a realhistorical world with 7000 years
of history rather than just Afantasy construct. Each artifact
and structure was designedwith consideration for how it would
(31:14):
have been made, what materialswere available, the cultural significance
within its society, and how ithad aged and weathered over time.
Nothing on this movie wasrecycled from any other movie or
rented from any other company.Everything you see on screen was
made from scratch for thesemovies and for these movies only.
(31:36):
New Zealand artisans fromacross the country were tasked with
making realistic props for theLord of the Rings, including glassblowers,
ceramists, furniture makers,leather artists and metal workers.
Like the sets, the props werecreated in two scales to serve the
variety of characters on theproject, from Hobbit to Gandalf sized.
(31:58):
Everything from furniture,weapons and food was produced in
both small and large sizes.And just like the clothing, the visual
language of the Elven designused organic flowing lines inspired
by Art Nouveau nature basedmotifs featuring leaves, vines and
stars. Muted color palettes ofblues, silvers, pale greens and whites
(32:18):
and elves predominantlyintegrated their buildings with natural
surroundings. Dwarven designused geometric angular patterns and
strong symmetry. Was builtwith heavy stonework for durability
and scale, with elaborateengravings in rich warm colors with
golds and deep reds.Everything was illuminated from below
to show the Dwarves as amining community. I mentioned the
(32:42):
building of Hobbiton lastepisode, but the Hobbit holes were
based on rounded architecturethat was deliberately imperfect and
handcrafted. Everything wasmade to feel warm and comfortable
using natural materials withearth tones, greens and yellows.
Mount Sunday in New Zealand'sCanterbury region was used for the
location for the exterior ofEdoras, Rohan's capital. Rohan used
(33:07):
Anglo Saxon and Norseaesthetics with wooden construction
and again, like the clothing,horse motifs integrated into architecture
and decorations. And just likefor Gondor with its classical Byzantine
and Egyptian influences andsymbolic tree motifs throughout.
Decorative elements,unsurprisingly for a place with the
(33:27):
literal eye of Sauron everwatching. Mordor's recurring motifs
for its conceptual design wereflames, wheels and eyes, as well
as black volcanic rock andcrude metalwork. Everything was used
to signify that these werelong standing cultures with their
own design languages,alphabets, writing systems, jewelry
(33:47):
styles, textile patterns andarchitectural principles. The languages
specifically were important.Tolkien, as I mentioned in the very
first episode, was a huge fanof linguistics since his childhood
and his created languages wereintegral to Middle Earth. No one
wanted to get the languagewrong. Specialist dialect and creative
(34:08):
language coaches taught theactors Tolkien's elvish language
using phonetics and alsocreated various accents for all the
characters and began trainingand rehearsing with the actors a
month before Filming began.Both coaches were on set, standing
by, listening for dialogue anddialect and also supervised any looping
or dialogue recorded thattakes place after the scenes were
(34:31):
already shot. Productiondesigner Grant Major would say that
the work of Lee and Howe wasfundamental to the project, bringing
their intimate knowledge ofTolkien's Law to the work. Major
oversaw the creation of thelife sized exterior sets, including
the intricate and delicateElvish kingdom of Rivendell, the
grassy knolls of Hobbiton andthe underground interior realms of
(34:53):
the Mines of Moria. He maderealism and exquisite detail a priority,
but with a fantastical twist.The sets for Rivendell were created
to reflect the Elvish culturewhich is highly artistic and intimately
connected to the forest andnature. It appears a place of deep
serenity with archingwalkways, babbling brooks and quiet
(35:14):
wooden gazebos, lendingRivendell a sense of mystery. So
he designed and built a seriesof 40 foot tall towers that shimmer
in the background ofRivendell, suggesting there's more
to Rivendell than meets theeye. Many of major sets were built
at Peter Jackson's WellingtonStudios. This is where he created
the Mines of Moria. Graygranite walls were sprayed constantly
(35:37):
by technicians to appear asglistening, dripping jewel encrusted
caves. These sets not only hadto be visually correct, but also
hard wearing with thousands ofpeople walking through them, including
cast and crew. The sets had towithstand 60 pounds per square foot
of weight. The Two Towers wasalways acknowledged by the crew as
(35:58):
the most difficult film tomake. As the middle part of a trilogy,
it had no beginning or end,with the additional problem of intercutting
storylines appropriately.Peter Jackson had initially intended
to edit all three filmshimself at once, assisted by Jamie
Selkirk. This soon proved tooambitious, so John Gilbert was hired
to edit the Fellowship of theRing, Michael J. Horton for the Two
(36:21):
Towers and Jamie Selkirk onthe Return of the King. The process
of editing three films back toback resulted in some scenes, including
the reforging of Anguril,Gollum's backstory and Saruman's
demise being moved to theReturn of the King. Saruman's death
would end up being cut fromthe theatrical edition but included
in the extended edition. WhenJackson felt it was not starting
(36:44):
the third film effectivelyenough. Much of what was filmed remained
unused, even in the extendededitions. There is much information
online as to the content ofwhat was filmed and never used. So
I'm not going to go into ithere, but maybe we will get an extended
extended version in thefuture. There is no easy way to segue
(37:05):
into the obligatory Keanureference of this episode. But like
yes episode, I am trying tofind ways to link Keanu Reeves to
the Lord of the Rings, whichis something that I do for pretty
much every episode and onlybecause he literally is the best
of men and the one that I didlast episode I think easily could
(37:25):
have covered all of them, butI wanted to do something different
and literally the only way Icould link him is again via the Matrix
and that is because obviouslyKeanu Reeves starred in the Matrix.
Don't know if you realize, buthe did. Which was directed by the
Wachowskis and the Wachowskisvisual effects team on the Matrix
also included many people whoworked with Weta Digital who would
(37:50):
obviously then go on to workon the visual effects for all of
the Lord of the Rings but arespecifically using it for the Two
Towers. I don't know if thereis any other way to link Keanu Reeves
to the Lord of the Rings fornext episode, but because it's the
300th episode I'm gonna haveto think of something. As I mentioned,
I'm gonna talk about the musicspecifically next episode and I'm
(38:11):
a little bit worried aboutnext episode because it is going
to be so full of everythingelse that I haven't managed to fit
into these two episodes thatI'm worried it's going to be quite
massive. Hopefully not so I'llbe speaking about Howard Shaw's score
next episode, but I mentionedlast episode the website for the
(38:31):
Fellowship of the Ring and thewebsite for the movie was updated
when it came to the release ofthe Two Towers with interactive Middle
Earth maps, character profilesand exclusive behind the scenes content.
Fan sites were given exclusivematerials and early access to content,
but really the biggestmarketing tool for the Two Towers
(38:52):
was the Fellowship of theRing. The first teaser trailer was
attached to Spider man in May2002, which was a strategic leveraging
of another blockbuster'saudience. The second major trailer
focused heavily on the revealof Gollum, showcasing the character
as a major selling point, andlater trailers highlighted the Battle
(39:13):
of Helm's Deep, whichpositioned the movie as more action
packed than its predecessor.The Lord of the the Two Towers premiere
at the Ziegfeld Theater in NewYork on 5 December 2002 and was released
wide on 18 December 2002,which was a year minus a day from
the previous movie and onanother Wednesday as well. But unlike
(39:36):
the Fellowship of the Ring,there was no debuting at number three
in its short first week, theTwo Towers made $40 million in its
first two days, automaticallygoing to number one at the US box
office, beating Made inManhattan. It would stay at number
one for four weeks, onlydropping to third in its fifth week
behind Just Married and CatchMe if youf Can. It remained in the
(39:59):
US top 10 for 10 weeks on aproduction budget of $94 million.
The Two Towers grossed $339.8million domestically in the US and
$583.2 millioninternationally, for a total worldwide
gross of $923 million, makingit the highest grossing film of 2002
(40:22):
and at the time of itsrelease, the third highest grossing
film of all time, not adjustedfor inflation, behind Titanic and
Harry Potter and thePhilosopher's Stone. It also had
the highest internationalopening weekend and the highest opening
weekend of all time until theMatrix Reloaded surpassed it. The
Lord of the the Two Towers hasan approval rating of 95% on rotten
(40:47):
tomatoes, a 3% increase on theFellowship. With the website's consensus
reading the Two Towers balancethis spectacular action with emotional
storytelling, leavingaudiences both wholly satisfied and
eager for the final chapter.The Two Towers received slightly
fewer Academy Awardnominations than the Fellowship of
the Ring. It received severalsix for Best Picture, Best Art Direction,
(41:10):
Best Film Editing, Best Sound,Best Sound Editing, and Best Visual
Effects, winning in twocategories, Best Sound Editing and
Best Visual Effects. It alsoearned nine nominations at the BAFTAs
for Best Film, Best Direction,Best Cinematography, Best Costume
Design, Best Editing, BestMakeup and Hair, Best Production
Design, Best Sound and BestSpecial Visual Effects, leading to
(41:33):
wins in the categories forBest Costume Design and Best Special
Visual Effects. Of a total of222 award nominations, the Two Towers
won a total of 136 awards.Like all of these movies, there is
an extended version with 45minutes of new material, added special
effects and music, and 11minutes of fan club credits. The
(41:56):
theatrical version of the TwoTowers is 179 minutes long. The extended
version is 235 minutes. Justimagine how long that extended extended
version might be should itever be released. And this is where
we leave this chapter ofVerbal Diorama. This is where we
leave episode 299 of VerbalDiorama, with Gollum leading Frodo
(42:19):
and Sam on a dangerous route.The Rohirrim and the Elves have arrived
to save Helm's Deep, and thesurviving Uruk Hai have fled into
the forest, only to beattacked by Treebeard and the Ents.
Sauron will retaliate, butthere's still good in Middle Earth,
and it's on its way to Mordor.But first, Shelob, thank you for
(42:42):
listening. As always, I wouldlove to hear your thoughts on the
Lord of the Rings, the TwoTowers and thank you for your continued
support of this podcast. Ifyou have enjoyed this episode and
you would like to get involvedand help this podcast grow and reach
more people, you can find meand follow me across social media.
I'm at Verbal Diorama. You canlike post, share posts, comment on
(43:04):
posts. You can even contact meas well directly if you wish. You
can tell your friends andfamily about this podcast or about
this episode, or you can leavea rating and review wherever you
found this podcast. And ofcourse the next episode is on the
Lord of the Rings, the Returnof the King and it is also the 300th
episode of this podcast. So itis gonna be a little bit of a big
(43:27):
deal. If you enjoy what I dofor this podcast or you simply want
to support an indie podcasterwho does literally everything on
her own. If you have somespare change and you wish to, you
can financially contribute tothe upkeep of this podcast. Now you
are under no obligation. Thispodcast is free and will remain free.
But if you do enjoy what I doand you get value out of what I do,
(43:50):
There are a couple of ways youcan help. You can make a one off
donation@verbaldiorama.comtips or you can subscribe to the
Patreon to support theshow@verbaldiorama.com Patreon and
all money made goes back intothis podcast by paying for things
like software subscriptions,website hosting or new equipment.
(44:10):
Huge thank you to theincredible patrons of Verbal Diorama,
some of whom have supported mefor many, many years and I am so
grateful for their support.They are Claudia, Simon, Laurel,
Derek, Kat, Andy, Mike, Luke,Michael, Scott, Brendan, Lisa, Sam,
Jack, Dave, Stuart, Nicholas,so Kev, Pete, Heather, Danny, Ali,
(44:32):
Stu, Brett, Philip M, Xenos,Sean, Rhino, Philip K, Adam, Elaine,
Kyle and Aaron. If you do wantto get in touch, you want to say
hi, you want to give me somefeedback or a suggestion, you can
email verbaldioramail.com oryou can go to verbaldiorama.com and
you can fill out the littlecontact form and you can get in touch
(44:52):
with me that way. Or like Isaid before, you can send me a DM
on social media, on Instagramor Blue Sky. I'm not really around
on Twitter, to be honest. Ihave kind of left there because,
you know, it's kind of run bythat person and I don't want to be
associated with that but youcan contact me on other social medias
(45:12):
or on email and I willactually respond to you. And I love
receiving your messages andyour emails. So if you want to get
in touch, please feel free todo so. I would love to hear from
you, but otherwise, pleasejoin me next week for the 300th episode
of this podcast. How crazy isthat? And finally, is there no other
(45:34):
way.
For the women children to getout of the caves? Is there no other
way? There is one passage. Itleads into the mountains. But they
will not get far. The Uruk Haiare too many. Send word for the women
(45:55):
and children to make for themountain pass and barricade the entrance.
So much death. What can men doagainst such reckless hate? Ride
out with me. Ride out and meetthem. For death and glory. For Rohan.
(46:24):
For your people. The sun isrising. Look to my coming at first
night on the fifth day atdawn. Look to the east. Yes. Yes.
(46:51):
The horn of Helm hammer handshall sound in the deep one last
time. Yes. Yes. Let this bethe hour when we draw swords together.
(47:15):
Fell deeds awake. Now forwrath, now for ruin and the red d.
(47:43):
Bye.
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