April 23, 2024 • 52 mins
In this episode we talk to Oklahoma State Senator Julia Kirt and Oklahoma State Representative Melissa Provenzano about why it is becoming harder and harder for people to engage in politics. Join us as we talk about why people are feeling disenfranchised and divided. How can we better navigate the process, skip the noise, and be more effective in our advocacy efforts?
Together, we dissect the urgency of empowering women in politics and how recent shifts like the overturning of Roe v. Wade are reshaping perceptions of governance and personal autonomy. Our dialogue traverses the landscape of political engagement, revealing the potency of personal narratives in bridging divides and the transformative impact that comes from stepping into the political arena.
About Guest Speakers
Senator Julia Kirt was elected to the Oklahoma State Senate in 2018 representing District 30 in northwest Oklahoma City. She is an experienced community leader who has led statewide arts and culture nonprofit organizations for 20 years. As a mom of two, Senator Kirt knows first-hand the value of the investments we make in public education and in an economy that provides opportunity for all families. Senator Kirt currently serves as a Co-Chair for the Mental Health Caucus. Her committee work is largely focused on the state’s finances and the rules by which our government operates, which allows her to work for an Oklahoma built on fairness, where each person and community has what they need to thrive.
Representative Melissa Provenzano is a lifelong Tulsa area native, married mom to two and stepmom to two. Elected in 2018 to represent District 79 in Tulsa, she worked as a public school teacher and principal who grew exasperated with cutting her budget every single year until she decided to run. As a legislator, Melissa continues to bring this same commitment and voice, focusing on common sense education policy and for the needs of families of Tulsa at the state capitol. She currently services as the Assistant Minority Leader for the Democratic Caucus, State Director for Women In Government (National), and co-chair of the Mental Health Caucus. She was recently named one of Journal Record's 50 Women Making a Difference and is most proud of her work increasing access to diagnostic mammograms, student loan transparency, getting rid of the state grocery tax and separating occupational licensure renewals from tax status.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend, leave us a review and don't forget to hit the subscribe button. If you are ready to take your career and business to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and
founding member of Vest, anorganization connecting women
across industries, regions andcareer levels so that together
we can expedite the pipeline ofmore women in positions of power
and influence.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Vestor Podcast, where we
(00:23):
explore the invisible barriersholding women back in the
workplace and share stories ofwomen building power
collectively.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know I felt overwhelmed and unable to engage
when I got started.
I was so aggravated andfrustrated and annoyed.
The things we were facing andhow I thought decisions were
being made that were impacting,you know, my kids, my
neighborhoods, my family.
Going out and talking to peopleI don't agree with actually
(01:02):
galvanized me and changed myheart in a lot of ways.
I lost a lot of my cynicismabout politics when I was
knocking doors for running foroffice, because you're talking
to people at their home abouttheir values, what they care
about, and they don't fit intoneat boxes.
They cannot be flattened intored or blue.
That's just not the case.
(01:22):
People are very complexcombination of histories,
personal stories, experiences,values and connecting with
people just broke down so muchover that when I go knock doors
it is such an antidote to thetoxic politics stuff because you
know people are worried abouttheir kid, they're worried about
their street, they're worriedabout you know there's very
tangible things and we get sofocused on these big political
(01:46):
storylines instead of what realpeople need.
So to me, getting involvedactually helped my heart, it
helped my optimism, it helped myresolve.
In so many ways I am way lessfrustrated being in office than
I was watching politics from theoutside, than I was watching
politics from the outside.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I have a purple district.
I'm the first Democrat to holdthis particular district and
every year it's been a 52 to 48%margin, and so this last cycle
that meant 300 votes and whenpeople feel like they don't make
a difference, I'm like 300votes is not much.
(02:26):
Women feel the ones I speakwith feel very ignored by state
government.
You know the Roe v Wade gettingoverturned.
No matter how you feel about it, there's a definite vibe from
Republican women, democrat womenthat feel that others are
(02:46):
making decisions about theirbodies, and I get all different
flavors of opinion when I talkabout it.
But just listening andrespecting is largely absent in
today's culture and with thetalking heads on television and
you think that that must be thenarrative.
But really so many people justwant us to come back to center.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
In this episode we talked to Oklahoma State Senator
Julia Kirk and Oklahoma StateRepresentative Melissa
Provenzano about why it'sbecoming harder and harder for
people to engage in politics.
Join us as we talk about whypeople are feeling
disenfranchised.
Join us as we talk about whypeople are feeling
disenfranchised.
We also talk about how we canbetter navigate the process,
skip the noise and be moreeffective in our advocacy
(03:30):
efforts.
To access our guest's full bioand show notes, go to
wwwvestherco forward slashpodcast.
This episode is brought to youby Vestor Ventures, our venture
capital arm investing inwomen-led companies, building
solutions for the intersectionof the care economy and future
(03:52):
of work, and by our vast peernetwork, a network of
professional women acrossindustries, regions and career
levels, helping each othernavigate careers and working
together to build a future ofmore inclusive workspaces.
This conversation was part of amore intimate coaching session
with Vest members and has beenrepurposed to accommodate this
(04:13):
episode.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Good morning, so glad to be here.
Thanks y'all for having us.
I've always wanted to come to aVest meeting and I'm sad that
you had to invite me to speakbefore I finally showed up.
So I'll try to try to do better, but our schedules are a little
wild.
So I am a military kid.
My dad was in the Air Force, mymom was a public school teacher
(04:35):
and then actually went toseminary and became an Episcopal
priest.
So I lived about three placesas a kid, but mostly rooted in
Oklahoma, and I went away tocollege and when I came back for
a few months to stay with myfamily, I fell in love with
Oklahoma again and have beenhere ever since.
And I ran artists organizationfor about 15 years, so working
(04:55):
with artists across the state totry to help them thrive in our
state, and called the Oklahomavisual arts coalition.
We focused on grants, awardsand helping people have the
business skills and platform fortheir work that they wanted.
That work really just made medeeply understand the potential
(05:15):
of our state and how muchcreative potential is here and
how much I want to see.
You know, I've just never beensomeone who's satisfied with the
status quo, so I want to see usdo better.
So over time, that became acare about advocacy and really
caring about what influences theability to be a small business
person in Oklahoma, whatinfluences what affects
(05:36):
creativity, arts, education, howour kids encouraged or
discouraged from their dreamsand passions, and my desire for
the state to be a whole lot morecreative.
Over time, that really came intome advocating for systems, and
so that's how I ended up caringmore about what the legislature
was doing, and then also, at thesame time, my two kids started
(05:56):
going to our neighborhoodOklahoma City Public School and
we had a great experience there,but budgets started getting cut
literally my first year withkids in school had a great
experience there, but budgetsstarted getting cut literally my
first year with kids in school,and so I got a lot more
familiar with the levels ofgovernment that influence our
public schools and, over time,started organizing other folks
around speaking up to thelegislature, which is, I think,
what really hit me when, afterthe 2016 elections, I just had a
(06:21):
deep feeling that I needed tobe more involved and I got
pushed that maybe I would runfor office someday, and not a
week later, my state senatortold me that he was running to
become the mayor of OklahomaCity, so I suddenly got to
decide if I was ready to do thatwith two young children.
So I was elected in 2018, ranfor about a year and a half
leading up to that, so, butreally it was a combination of
(06:45):
creatives in our state andpublic schools that pushed me
into office.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Representative Provenzano.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Thank you, thank you for having me.
I mean, how do I even matchSenator Kurt, all of that?
I'm impressed that I actuallystarted.
I'm living my whole life inTulsa but love my city, love my
city.
And I became a teacher WillRogers High School, tulsa Public
Schools and taught biology fora long time to hormonal ninth
(07:16):
graders.
They're just right on the cuspof, oh, my goodness, that
seventh hour after everybody'sbeen outside and you have that
lovely smell.
But they were so awesome.
And then I decided to become aprincipal and that was really a
good fit, and ended up as amiddle school principal in a
Title I school in Tulsa.
(07:37):
And man, those kids.
It was fascinating because Ihad come from a real
high-performing school as anassistant and I go to this
really tough school and I'mlooking at the teachers going.
The quality is the same, theyare just as good in both of
these environments.
This population has just dealtwith a different set of issues
(08:01):
and kind of just found my heart.
And that's when I started, whenthe budgets started getting cut
, and I ended up, you know, withthese middle school kids who
would stand in traffic for youonce they know that you're going
to show up every day for themand then to cut a budget, cut a
budget, cut a budget, you know,cut curriculum, cut resource
(08:23):
officers, cut assistantprincipals, until you're just
like I can't do this anymore.
And I did it for 10 yearsstraight where I cut something.
And then the teacher walkouthappened and I came up and I met
my representative, who wastermed out and I thought and did
not get the answers that Iwanted, and so I decided to
(08:44):
stick my toe in.
I went to my husband.
I'm like, okay, so here's thepay, and it's a bit less than
what we can do, but I think wecan do it.
I feel called to do this.
And so we just hit the groundrunning.
And here I am six years laterand education policy remains my
foundation.
(09:04):
But now, once you've done this awhile, everybody sort of
figures out oh, you know, weknow that you're accessible and
we have your number and we knowyour email address, and so now
my plate is also full with youknow the same kinds of issues
that you see from publiceducation.
You know our systems have justbeen ignored for so long here in
Tulsa that the same things thatyou see happening in education
(09:26):
are happening in health andhappening in criminal justice
just do a serious lack offunding and lack of attention
over time.
So I spent a lot of timeresolving constituent issues,
and that's where pretty much allof my legislation comes from.
You know, like the diagnosticmammogram bill that you
referenced, I actually had alady that I was knocking her
door and she told me about thediagnostic mammogram she could
(09:48):
not afford to pay for becauseher insurance you know the cost
was going to be more than shecould even bear with insurance,
and so that's kind of been myfocus, and who knows what bills
I'll run next session as aresult.
So it's kind of enjoyablethough.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, thank you again for saying yes and for serving,
and that's actually a greatsegue to my next question, which
is what are some of the mostcritical issues?
It seemed like every time Iturn on the news, local news,
there's something all of asudden so fire.
So just really curious to hearfrom you both as to what you
consider to be the most criticalissues that you're working on
(10:25):
right now.
We'll start with you,Representative Crowley-Sundon,
then we'll go to Senator Crote.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Oh goodness, I think front and center for me is our
public education system.
And Tulsa is personal becausewe had this, you know, threat of
we're going to pull youraccreditation and you know, and
we're going to do all of thesedifferent things and it was, you
know, very cavalier and it wasvery concerning and the entire
Tulsa community was concernedand we actually plugged into the
(10:52):
business community and said youknow, do you understand what
losing accreditation will looklike for Tulsa?
That means people lose theirjobs, kids have to find new
places to go to school.
It just would upset the localeconomy, you know, not to
mention just the chaos thatensued.
And it's been quieted down fora bit.
(11:14):
But, man, the business communityengaged with us at that point
and reached out to the governorand said we're very concerned,
you know.
And then things got much morecalm and so we're hopeful that
that continues and oursuperintendent does seem to be
in support of Tulsa Public andthe work that they're doing
there.
Bless the teachers and blessthe superintendent.
(11:35):
I'm just hopeful that that willlast.
But there's this sense ofwhat's going to happen next that
I'm always watchful for.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Thank you, senator Kurt.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, I always have a hard time with this because I
think everything intersects andso I have a real hard time with
separating out issues.
But that's not the way it worksup here.
I was telling someone thismorning who was very frustrated
about the process and I said wedon't like holistic thinking, we
don't work that way in ourpolicymaking up here.
So it's very difficult ifthat's how you want to approach
(12:09):
things.
But I'll say fundamentally twobiggest things I really spend
time on.
One is mental health.
I mean I just recognize thatour mental health and substance
use disorder issues across thestate.
Access to appropriate care isone of the most critical issues
and it's affecting all our otherissues.
It affects our family'swell-being, it affects the
(12:29):
workforce and employment, itaffects incarceration, it
affects homelessness, it affectsmany, many things, not to
mention quality of life.
So, mental health and substanceuse I'm really proud to have
helped start the Mental HealthCaucus, which is a way for the
legislature to try to workbetter together and respond to
those biggest needs.
Because I do think we have achallenge around being holistic.
(12:49):
In which case, how do you makesure the right ideas get moved
forward, because there's a lotof different things you know,
2000 bills filed a year and howdo we make sure the ones that
move forward are the ones thatreally can make an impact?
And so I think we're doing abetter job, working with Healthy
Minds Policy Initiative andothers to identify those most
impactful changes to make surepeople have access to care.
(13:11):
And then the other is housing.
When I came in, this was a bigconcern of mine, but I very much
thought, like what in the worldcan I do to help in this area?
It's so overwhelming and,frankly, when you're in the
minority, you have to berealistic about the things.
You can't be involved witheverything and you can't make
change in every area.
But over time it's just.
We finally have caught fire alittle bit.
(13:32):
I think COVID made people moreaware, even the business
community aware, that housing isa real concern.
Unfortunately, we haven't actedon making improvements in terms
of access to affordable housingor our you know, rental
availability or our eviction lawin 40 years.
So we have a lot of catching upto do, but I will say that at
(13:55):
least people are finally fertileand willing to talk about the
challenges and are seeing howthat affects economic
development, how that affectspeople's well-being.
So I've been working a lotaround landlord-tenant law and
I'll tell you that frankly,that's not something that I
wanted to work on, but it isabsolutely necessary and nobody
else wants to work on it, and sothat's something that, frankly,
in the minority party,sometimes that's what you got to
(14:16):
do is take an issue that noneof my friends are going to work
on it, so I'm going to jump inand so I've had a lot of great
angry landlord calls this year.
But I think we have to changethe way we talk about housing in
this country profit fromhousing and how that affects our
families because I think that'sthe big issue up here is how we
(14:36):
balance personal rights andresponsibilities with our
societal needs and well-beingRight, and that's not easy, it's
not clear, but I think housingis one where we're clearly out
of balance in terms of that andwe have to find a new way.
So I've been trying to talkabout housing as a utility or as
the kind of infrastructure thatwe all need, but that's not the
(14:57):
way we've treated it in thiscountry and the state, and I
want to respect local issues.
But anyway, point is isaffordable housing, housing and
how that affects homelessness,how that affects community
stability those are big thingsI'm focused on.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Thank you, senator Curt, and thank you for
outlining the intersectionalitybetween issues.
When we talk about policiesaffecting entrepreneurs, the
first thing everybody wants toaddress is access to capital.
But I'm like you know allpolicy is entrepreneurship
policy, because if we can't fixour health care access system,
you know people are going to beworried about just access to
help.
They're not going to quit theirjobs or start a new company
(15:34):
because of the fear of missingthat.
You know the way our healthcare system is structured is
very much dependent on employeeemployer based access.
So, anyways, I love that youincluded that access.
So, anyways, love that youincluded that comment.
So thank you so much.
There's a lot of apathy rightnow in the general public
regarding politics.
In fact, when we ask women,they often state I'm juggling so
(15:59):
many things, you know I don'thave really time to engage in
politics.
Another thing they've told usis I really don't trust
politicians.
There's too much divisivenessand hostility.
The other reason why they saythey don't engage is I already
know how I'm going to vote, so Ijust don't.
You know I don't need to engageand or my vote doesn't matter,
(16:21):
my voice doesn't matter,particularly in states where you
know they feel that they're theminority.
So what do you have to sayabout that and how do you
convince people, particularlywomen, to engage you?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
know I felt overwhelmed and unable to engage
.
When I got started.
I was so aggravated andfrustrated and annoyed.
The things we were facing andhow I thought decisions were
being made that were impactingmy kids, my neighborhoods, my
family At when in that time, Iwas really focused on city
(16:54):
council and school board reallythe areas of government that I
focused on.
But over time I realized somany of the decisions I cared
about were being made at thestate legislature.
I got to say going out andtalking to people I don't agree
with actually galvanized me andchanged my heart in a lot of
ways.
I lost a lot of my cynicismabout politics when I was
(17:15):
knocking doors for running foroffice, because you're talking
to people at their home abouttheir values, what they care
about, and they don't fit intoneat boxes.
They cannot be flattened intored or blue.
That's just not the case.
People are very complexcombination of histories,
personal stories, experiences,values and connecting with
(17:36):
people just broke down so muchover that.
And even now I mean I thinkProvenzano is the same when I go
knock doors.
It is such an antidote to thetoxic politics stuff because you
know people are worried abouttheir kid, they're worried about
their street they're worriedabout.
You know, there's very tangiblethings and we get so focused on
these big political storylinesinstead of what real people need
(17:57):
.
So, to me, getting involvedactually helped my heart, it
helped my optimism, it helped myresolve.
In so many ways I am way lessfrustrated being in office than
I was watching politics from theoutside.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
I'll hop in and echo what I saw.
Jessica just type in the thing.
And I have a purple district.
I'm the first Democrat to holdthis particular district and
every year it's been a 52 to 48percent margin, and so this last
cycle that meant 300 votes, andwhen people feel like they
(18:33):
don't make a difference, I'mlike 300 votes is not much.
And so you know it's the sweatequity that you have to get out
on the doors and knocking doors.
And I'll echo what Senator Kurtzsaid, that to have those
conversations, in particularwith women, when you're at their
door, they want to have aconversation.
(18:55):
You know, if you're saying Idon't have the time, it means I
need more information.
But I need to have a deep andwide conversation with you,
versus just you know, here's amailer and decide how you you,
how you feel.
But you know, I will tell you,women feel, the ones I speak
with feel very ignored by, bystate government.
(19:16):
You know the Roe v Wade gettingoverturned, no matter how you
feel about it, there's adefinite, definite vibe from
Republican women, democrat womenthat feel that that others are
making decisions about theirbodies, and so that's an easy
talking point to pivot to to youknow and and and I get all
(19:36):
different flavors of opinionwhen I talk about it, but just
listening and respecting islargely absent in in today's
culture and with the talkingheads on television and you
think that that must be thenarrative, but really so many
people just want us to come backto center when you have those
one-on-one conversations and usbeing willing to do that is the
(19:59):
key piece.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Can I respond a little bit more and just add to
something I saw in the chat,which is I think some people
worry, you know, does theirvoice matter in this process?
And you know, like I saw oneone comment of like I already
know how I'm gonna vote.
Right, you already know you'regonna vote, but it's so much
more complex than that.
Like every day, we decide whereto put our attention, and
(20:24):
constituent voices and communityleaders are how we make that
decision.
I mean, I'll take anything thatI have not already had on my
radar as a priority issue.
If a constituent raises it, I'mgoing to look into it and learn
more, and we are flooded withissues that we can be engaged on
and constituents absolutelydrive that.
(20:44):
I'll add to that.
I think one of the things thatexhausted me before and made me
feel unable to participate was Iwas trying to watch all levels
of government.
I was trying to be reallyinformed about federal.
I was trying to be reallyinformed about state, local.
It's too much and you may beable to do that.
Bravo to you if you're able todo that.
For me it was not a healthybalance, so I'm very out of the
(21:06):
loop on what's happening at thefederal level.
I cannot watch it and it makesme crazy because I'm able to
have a vote here and I'm not.
You know it's very difficult tomake change at the federal
level.
But I also had to check outfrom being always engaged with
city level stuff and schoolboard level stuff, because it's
just too much Like my braincan't handle it.
I can't engage on all theseissues.
So I think it's about what ismeaningful engagement to you,
(21:29):
and I think sending an emailhere and there is probably not
meaningful engagement.
You know, whereas serving on acommittee or being always,
always, always connecting withother advocates and we'll talk
about that more but those arethe kinds of things that make a
difference is being part of amovement or being part of a
change that's bigger than justyou.
It's not all one way we reallyset this up, where it's like
(21:50):
constituents talking to theirelected officials, but it really
should be reciprocal and thereshould be community connections
too.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I have to echo that.
My inbox.
Today I sit on theAdministrative Rules Committee.
I have gotten hundreds andhundreds and when it's from a
constituent in my districtbecause I always scroll to the
bottom to see what their addressis and if they're in my
constituent then I definitelypay more attention.
But the emails have gotten morepersonalized, which hooks me a
little bit more.
You know, here's my story.
Here's why I ask, because somuch of the email traffic is cut
(22:37):
and paste and click to send.
So it's evolving, I would say.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You lead into my next question and I promise Vast
members, we're going to get.
I see already that we have alot and we're going to get to
your questions, but before we dothat, we're talking about how
overwhelming it can be.
It really is a big challenge,right?
That is a lot of times whypeople don't engage is because
the process alone can beoverwhelming.
(23:03):
Do you have any other tips for,in addition to talking
one-on-one, not focusing just onheadlines but focusing on the
actual issues and picking?
You know where they're going tofocus?
Is there anything else that youwant to share with us?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I'll hop in.
I mean so.
It's overwhelming for us too,and especially during deadline
weeks.
This is one of our firstdeadline weeks and I can go from
the time I wake to the time Igo to sleep doing this job
during especially duringdeadline week and during session
, and just those brain breaksthat I have to take where I put
(23:38):
my phone in another room or I goon a walk or I you know, it
actually prepares me to comeback and dive right back in and
be effective.
I think you have to decide whatmatters most to you and target
that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, I, I like I would say, limit what you are
going to engage on, because Ithink it could be so aggravating
to have too many things you'retrying to engage on, because I
think it could be so aggravatingto have too many things you're
trying to engage on.
And I mean my biggestrecommendation is to connect
with other people who care aboutthe same issues.
You know that could be yourneighborhood, you know that
could be your school, that couldbe an advocacy organization.
(24:14):
Just, no one should go it alonebecause there are a few solo,
you know super woman advocatesup here, who?
But they are here, but theyburn themselves out too If
they're up here trying to changethe law by themselves and talk
to every legislatoren.
Example, which is when I wasknocking doors, it was 788 was
on the ballot, which is themedical marijuana measure, and I
(24:46):
always asked for my list ofvoters to include people who
just registered, because I loveto talk to people who just
registered.
So I went to see a whole lot ofpeople the week after the
medical marijuana vote who werebrand new registrants.
They registered just for thatstate question and I had several
tell me well, we're done, itpassed.
And I was like oh, oh no, youneed to engage because all this
(25:10):
has changed and I think theythought it was a yes or no vote.
Now it's in.
But since that time, just onthat one state question, we've
changed how the money flows,we've changed the definitions,
we've changed everything aboutwhat that state question was.
And so when you think about anygiven issue, if you focus in
closely, that's fine, you canmake a big difference engaging
on that and that level of change.
(25:32):
But I guess the point is it'snot a one and done kind of
situation.
You have to.
It has to be issues you careabout.
That you're willing to engageon over and over again.
And I'll just add like youdon't have to know the perfect
solution either, like I thinksometimes when I was outside the
building and an advocate, Ithought I needed to come in with
all the answers for people.
And you know, if you're HungerOklahoma, you might need to,
(25:53):
because y'all are makingspecific proposals.
But other folks, you can comein and tell your story and say
I'm frustrated and the state isnot helping with this.
You know, sometimes that's thekind of change you need.
And if you point out that it'sintersectional, that's only.
That's only fair Because, forinstance, in our state, we
overwhelmingly spend money oncrisis instead of prevention.
I think that's something youcould raise across many, many
(26:16):
issue areas, so it doesn't haveto be like you don't have to
have a strategic plan for thestate, on whatever issue you're
trying to prepare, in order toengage.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, you touched on something that I think gets
into this issue of engagingRight, and that is the
(26:47):
environments in state likeOklahoma and, by the way, most,
although most of our members arebased in Oklahoma, when we're
talking about our podcasts it'sactually nationwide and I think
we're seeing it nationwide,regardless whether we're talking
about local, state or federalpolicies but it feels like the
environment can seem hostile fora lot of people, particularly
women, particularly people ofcolor, the LGBTQ plus community.
I don't want to put it on thembecause I feel like every time
we are addressing issues, wealways put it in the most
marginalized community to kindof, you know, figure out how we
(27:11):
overcome or how do we solve.
So I want to put it back on us.
How can we, what is ourresponsibility, to change or
counter a lot of these false,negatives and hostile laws which
make it harder for people toengage?
But also, I mean, when we'retalking about businesses, right,
(27:31):
and wanting people to not justengage in politics but even stay
in our state or recruit them toour state, it's really hard to
do that when people don't feelsafe or don't feel wanted in our
state.
So what do you have to sayabout that?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I mean I just say it's so hard and I confirm that
it's unacceptable.
And I frequently see many of myconstituents who don't feel
safe and all I can do day to dayis, you know, help them know
that they're elected, official,listens and cares.
And I mean last summer Icarried a sign for pride that
(28:08):
just said this legislator fightsfor your rights.
And it was kind of cheesy insome ways.
Like you know, I feel cheesyeven saying it, but I mean
people were feeling underminedand that was meaningful to
people.
I got a lot of applause andhugs and appreciation for that.
So that's one thing.
The other I would say don'tgive up.
(28:30):
You know I think change is slowand we're hoping that this is
the last gasp of certainpatriarchal structures.
Frankly, I don't mean to beoverly grandiose about it, but
you know there's a desperateneed to hold on to control
that's happening.
Even, as you know, women in thelegislature there's only.
We're just a little over 20% ofthe legislature, so it's a very
(28:51):
male dominated world.
You know we still have toreally angle to be taken
seriously.
I think we are, because we workin a bipartisan manner and they
know we do our work, butthere's still a lot of things
you would expect happening uphere, and I think there's a lot
of fundamental disregard for theneeds of people of color and
for for women.
(29:12):
So I think, just thatconsistency, the more of us that
show up.
They know they have torecognize and notice these
issues.
They know they have torecognize and notice these
issues and so it's.
It's a long-term, it's a it's.
It's not a change that's goingto happen overnight, because it
absolutely does matter who runsfor office.
I've been watching SenatorMichael Brooks Jimenez, whose
(29:32):
personal goal has been torecruit and help elect more
Latino, latino folks in Oklahoma, and you know that means he got
one more person three years ago.
Hey, that's a doubling of thenumber of Latino folks in the
legislature.
And while that's depressing insome ways, in other ways it's
been great and huge.
And you know, now there's aLatino caucus and he's helped
(29:56):
recruit people for school board.
So our school board at OklahomaCity Public Schools, which is
majority Hispanic, now has twoLatinas on the school board.
That's difference, that's adifference and so I think that
making those changes over timeand I think that is our
responsibility in office tobring people along with us as
much as possible.
So for me that's young people.
(30:16):
I spent a lot of time trying torecruit young people that I
don't think would would have avoice.
I make a real big emphasis, mypage program, like I don't want
the student class president, Iwant kids that that might not
have these opportunitiesotherwise.
So that's where I start.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, I'd have to agree.
I'm thinking about you knowthat, that sign, and then that I
saw you walking within prideand I'm like how do I get one of
those and got it printed andmarched in the Tulsa Pride
Parade in the hundred andfifteen degree heat but got so
many hugs?
But it's, it's so.
I think it's important thatwe're willing to say the thing.
(30:57):
You know if you know what Imean.
And when next Benedict here onour side of the state passed
away, it was a powerful momentof sorrow, but honestly, I took
away just this emoticum of hopeas well.
I went to the Tulsa vigil and Iwas scheduled to speak, and so I
(31:22):
called someone and said OK,what would you even want to hear
from a legislator you know, forsomething like this?
And so I got my remarks togetherand when I showed up there were
well over a thousand peoplethere at the Guthrie Green close
to 1,500 easily.
And I thought this is a momentthat all of these families and
(31:45):
friends and supporters aresaying enough, and to be able to
look around you and see howmany other people are or have
had enough and are there insupport of this community was
powerful.
And since then I've seen somany more people willing to
speak up in the Tulsa area andsay this is not okay, just
(32:09):
because you know you're notalone and we demonstrated it.
And so I think you knowattending events like that,
being willing to say the hardthing, grows that effort.
And I know that the TransAdvocacy Coalition in the Tulsa
area their membership has justexploded, you know, and they're
getting ready to have their.
You know two or three moreevents that, and so you know
(32:32):
visibility also brings a senseof fear as well, but they have
good relationships formed withlaw enforcement where they know
that they can be protected.
You know in very precise wayswhen they go out and do what
they do.
So I think we're on the path,but you gotta be willing to talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
You touched on something, you know, when we
launched Vest, actually a lot ofthe criticism came from women,
right, saying that.
Well, women, you know, when itcomes to my career and
navigating my career, oftentimesit's been women who've made it
hard for me to achieve, and Ithink we need to recognize that
(33:10):
right.
I think we need to recognize it, but I also need to, I think we
also need to look at it from abroader perspective.
You mentioned this, senatorKurt.
We live in a patriarchalsociety.
We also, you know, when itcomes to the workplace, it's
been dominated by mentalcolleagues.
(33:30):
It was created with a veryunique persona that usually had
a support system, and so all ofthe policies and how the
workplace has evolved has served, continues to serve, primarily
that one persona and as such,you know, it's created a lot of
competitive, a competitivenature amongst women.
It also isolates women and italso honestly causes us to
(33:52):
assimilate rather than fix thesystems or fix the workplaces.
And I'm just curious if you'veexperienced that in your you
know, as you serve, what is theenvironment like for you,
particularly being in theminority party?
And then I'm also going toattach another question to that,
because I've been asked to tocome and speak on policies that
(34:17):
affect women, and after I speak,you know I'll get a lot of text
messages, some from legislatorswho will say I agree with you
100%, but I can't say it outloud or I can't vote a certain
way because of my constituentsor because of my party, where my
party's in, and stuff like that.
I want to know the truth.
(34:39):
I want to know is it reallythat hostile of an environment?
Is there a balance betweenserving constituents and
creating education amongconstituents and doing the right
thing even though they may notthink it's the right thing for
their communities?
I'll leave that for later, butright now let's focus on what is
really the environment like forwomen, particularly women in
(35:04):
the minority?
And what would you say to yourcolleagues who continue to vote,
oftentimes against ourselves,right, like in policies that
actually hurt us more than theyhelp us?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I mean I'll hop in.
I don't think it's that clear.
I'll be curious what RepProvenzano will say.
But I think I faced lesschallenges being an older woman.
When I started running I waslike 44.
My colleagues who were in their20s or 30s faced unbelievable
things while running and theywere really disregarded and, I
(35:37):
think, unusually sexist responseto women candidates.
I think because I was, you know, 20 years into my career and
had a lot of.
I don't know, maybe it's justdifferent when you hit that edge
.
But so I didn't face people,didn't hit on me on the doors, I
didn't get dismissed.
People took me seriously.
I know from many of mycolleagues that when they
started running, peopledismissed them.
(35:58):
You know I'll never forgetrepresentative Munson telling me
about being dismissed andpreparing me, you know, for
people dismissing me and then itjust didn't happen and I think
that's just a privilege of ageand and.
But I will say that up here isvery personal, very personal.
Everything is very personal andyou know, as much as I don't
(36:19):
like that, I understand it.
You know we are humans, werelationships mean everything,
um and so um.
I mean I was warned about thisand I think I couldn't have done
it when I was younger because Iwas way more of a protest on
the corner type person.
But I have to work really hardto break down stereotypes and
build relationships with folksbecause I knew, coming in like I
, I'm an educated urbanvegetarian.
(36:42):
You know there's all thesethings that are going to make me
scary to a lot of my colleagues, and so I've worked really hard
to be friendly and connect withpeople in a meaningful way.
It is very personal, so I'lljust tell you that folks want us
to have almost like a debatecompetition.
Sometimes I mean, I hear frompeople who wish that I'd said
more or that we were making youknow we were breaking them down
(37:03):
more.
There is a huge politicalcapital cost for that and we
have to decide do we want to bein the conversations?
Are there things we can dobehind closed doors?
Are there?
Is there harm reduction we cando and we can blow up
relationships with one debate?
We can, and it's unfortunate itactually is making my stomach
turn right now talking about it,because it's a political
(37:25):
reality, which is people havevery thin skin and I'll say I
think the men have thinner skin.
They don't want to be criticizedin public.
They don't want to look bad orlook like they're not doing the
right thing.
They still view themselves ashaving the right intentions.
So it's very easy to offend andpart of me of course wants to
be like, oh, who cares?
(37:46):
But the other part is we're infamily with these folks for
another potentially six years.
It's like having step family orsomething Like you just can't
change them.
So I think caution is needed andI think that's part of the
reason why Rep Provenzano hasgotten such so much done I mean,
I literally voted on at leasttwo Provenzano bills yesterday
(38:07):
on the Senate floor is becauseshe's been judicious about
issues she approaches and howyou treat other people.
So we have to we, we do have tobe super careful, and I would
say that there's I wish therewas more of a collaborative
expectation, but I will say thatsometimes asking questions,
(38:27):
even privately, is viewed as anattack when it should be.
We're trying to make the bestpolicy possible.
So I both want to change that,but at the same time, the
reality of it is am I going tobe isolated and I'm just talking
to myself, or am I going to bea part of the conversation?
And so that's the calculuswe're playing every day.
It's painful sometimes.
Sometimes I support things ordon't debate things that I wish
(38:49):
I could, but I also have to makethose decisions every day what
I think is going to be best forOklahoma and for constituents.
So I agonize over it.
It's like a moral dilemma onthe daily.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
I have to think back about when we were getting the
Women's Caucus started, firstmeeting.
Every single senator andrepresentative that was a woman
came to caucus and then therewas a few less, and then there
was a few less, and then therewas a few less.
Our Republican members werebeing pressured to not come and
(39:25):
this was about three years agoand and oh you know, they're
going to try and peel you offand do whatever it is we're
doing in secret caucus orsomething like that.
But but it was the start ofsomething and we still have the
Women's Caucus going on and westill have the Women's Caucus
going on and we have a Democratand a representative from the
(39:49):
House and from the Senate thatputs together things that the
issues that matter to women.
And you know, while some don'tcome, others do, others have
come back and I think we'recontinuing to grow, but it still
requires effort.
We're continuing to grow, butit still requires effort.
But there are things thatmatter to all women,
irregardless that we find commonground within that caucus.
(40:09):
For example, you know, gettinginsurance to pay for diagnostic
mammograms.
Every single woman, except forone through that caucus, signed
on to that bill, got it acrossthe line and several men,
because they had mother, mothersand sisters and and cousins who
had had breast cancer.
(40:30):
You know it was.
You know, and I'm like this iswhat we could do around an
apolitical issue, except forblue cross and blue shield that
didn't care for the bill.
But they, they got over it andso I think the opportunity is
there.
But then, you know, pivoting tothe thing about the competition
that's so real, you know,between women.
(40:51):
But at the same time, you know,I actually am thankful for our
leadership now, because we haveevolved into an intentional
lifting of women up.
You know, regardless, but ithas to be on purpose that you
focus and go.
How do I lift her up and how doI elevate her voice in a
(41:11):
meeting when you know agentleman might say almost
exactly the same thing?
You know, five minutes later,you know, you pivot to go.
Oh yeah, you know, shelley justsaid that a few minutes ago and
I could not agree with her more, you know, and so we've pivoted
to, you know, and if you notice, the caucus leaders for the
Democrats are both women, and soyou know, lifting those voices
(41:34):
up has also started to evolvethe way we talk.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
That's.
That's fantastic to hear, and Ido think we need to be
intentional.
I was not always this way, youknow.
I was guilty of being toofocused on myself or, you know,
whatever I was dealing with, tonot think of the women next to
me, so I'm glad to hear thatthat's happening.
I want to open it up.
There's a lot of questions.
I'm going to ask the vast teamto help me moderate.
(42:01):
I know some of them havealready been answered, so I
don't you know.
I want to get to the ones thatmaybe we have not heard.
Jessica, at the beginning yousaid do either of you have
thoughts on how we can work toget the legislature as a whole
to think more holistically, andare there certain people that
can be more effective indelivering that message?
Speaker 3 (42:23):
I think I'll just jump in and say, yes, we
absolutely can.
We also, at this point in time,have a changeover in the top
leadership, have a changeover inthe top leadership, and so
we'll see.
You know, in the House and inthe Senate this next cycle
there's a large number of peopleat the top that are coming out,
and so I think we have to beready to kind of press in to new
(42:48):
leaders wanting to do thingsdifferent and make their own
mark and make sure women'sissues are part of that in a
more common sense way.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I mean, I think it's going to have to be a demand of
constituents in terms ofholistic or intersectional
thinking and because we don'thave, you know, at the municipal
level they have a planningdepartment, they have people who
are thinking this way, who arelooking at demographics.
We don't have that at the statelevel, which makes me just nuts.
So really, in theory, thegovernor's kind of you know,
(43:18):
vision or strategic plan for theorganization, for the state,
but they're, you know, they haveno more than four years
guaranteed, so it's not built into our process and I think we
need people pushing forward.
I think about the differencethat Potts Family Foundation
made in terms of teachinglegislators about adverse
childhood experiences.
I mean, when I came in, theywere making a real push to make
(43:41):
sure everybody was informedabout ACEs and I think still are
.
But I mean, for me that was.
I learned about ACEs from thembecause they cared to make us
think holistically about traumaand understanding how that
affects us for our whole lives,and so I think it can happen,
but it takes intentional effortagain.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I'm going to mix one of Perrin's questions with.
There's been a lot of policiesthat I think it's important for
all of us to be aware.
I know that again you share oneabout immigration, which
obviously I'm also very much intune with and passionate about,
but others have shared otherharmful legislation.
One of Perrin's questions ishow effective are kind of
(44:22):
touched on this before but howeffective are constituent emails
and what's the best way to kindof address those issues?
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Number one in person.
You know, if that's up, you donot have to come to the Capitol.
If they have events in yourdistrict, go to the events.
If a candidate ever knocks yourdoor, do not let them leave
that porch until you tell themwhat you care about.
I can't tell you.
I knocked 20,000 doors for myfirst election.
I probably only had five or sixpeople who really grilled me
(44:54):
about specific things that theywere concerned about.
I mean, that's a very tinypercentage.
So do not let them go without.
Like campaign year, electionyear is the best year to be
heard because they have to thinkabout who they elect.
The other recommendation isfocus on your legislators.
First, because I'm going toconnect with.
Another question that came inwas do I talk to my people, even
(45:16):
though I think they agree withme?
Yes, because we needjustification to stick our neck
out all the time.
So it helps if I can say oh,I've just been flooded with
emails about that or I haveconstituents who care a whole
lot about that.
That helps me oppose mycolleagues without taking as
much heat, because I can sayit's my district saying that.
But in-person is best.
Second would be phone.
(45:36):
I know everyone hates phone,but phone is absolutely next.
Email would be way below that,because it does look like
copy-paste.
A lot of the language ends upbeing the same and eyeball to
eyeball changes the wholescenario.
So I strongly recommendface-to-face.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Perrin, turning it over to you.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
Thank you so much.
This is so helpful and awesome,and I have probably too many
things that I'm passionate aboutand care about.
But, senator Kurt, you saidthat, okay, showing up in person
is the best thing to do, but myand I feel like I'm decently
informed, but I don't reallyknow, like, do I just show up to
(46:19):
the Capitol anytime and go andtalk to my representative and
senator?
Are there like specific timesthat are good options for people
?
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, great question.
So all of us have either anexecutive assistant or a
legislative assistant.
You can call the office and askwe meet Monday through Thursday
.
There are times when you're notgoing to find us available
because we all have caucusmeetings and so the best way is
to call ahead and ask.
Even better, invite yourlegislator to coffee in the
(46:53):
district, and they can do thaton a Friday or on a weekend or
the summer.
You know, the less timesensitive it is, the easier it
is to make that happen.
If they won't do that, show upat their events.
But yeah, call up here Ifyou're going to just show up.
It is an interruption culture.
So I'm really a rule followerand so I hated coming up here if
(47:14):
I didn't have appointmentsbecause I was like, oh, I don't
want to interrupt.
This is how this building works.
And so if you come up here andyou're a constituent, you go to
your legislator's office, yoursenator or your house member,
you ask the LA or EA if they'reavailable.
If they're not available, ifthey're in committee, to pull
people off the floor.
And I never in a million I'msuch a it's such a like woman
(47:35):
stereotype I never would havedone that as an advocate,
because I would have been like,oh I sure wouldn't want to
trouble them.
That's how this place works andthat's sometimes the only
chance you get to catch a minuteface to face with someone.
So if we're on the floor youcan send in a slip for us to
come out.
(47:57):
Most people responsive to theirconstituents If they're not
that's I mean, like SenatorHicks always tells about her
senator during the teacherwalkout would never meet with
her, which is one of the reasonsshe ran for office and won.
So if your person is notresponsive, that tells you a lot
.
You can also go in pairs, likeI really recommend go with a
friend if it's an overwhelmingthing to you or if you have
other people so that they canlisten and you can listen and
you're not just.
You don't have to be one-on-one.
You can be in small groups andthat's fine.
But yeah, logistically you cancall the office and get schedule
(48:17):
information.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I want to close with what are your three takeaways
that you want Vest members toleave with today that are
actually like things that we canactually do this week or next
week.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Gosh, I think honestly, do not be afraid.
We are all just human beings uphere and you are a human being.
You are on our same level andso show up and hold us
accountable, please, please.
It's amazing how much aconstituent, even one or two,
that show up or call on thephone, can sway a vote on
(48:55):
something you care about andthat is your right to do so.
You know, or you know showingup matters with regard to women,
the importance of lifting otherwomen up and and having hard,
being willing to have hardconversations and not holding
back.
It's intimidating, but do itanyway.
(49:16):
I think those would be my toptwo.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I'll think of what they're going to hear in a
minute Senator.
Yeah, I just wanted to lift upjust focusing on a change you
want to see and connecting withother people who care about that
issue closely and I know youknow many of you already are.
But you know many of youalready are.
But you know, focus that onsomething that you want to
change.
That can be a neighborhoodthing, that could be a city
(49:41):
thing, that could whatever it is, and connect with other people
on it, because I just thinkbeing a solo advocate is no fun,
it doesn't make change and youneed other people you're along
with.
And then I agree I see thatposts about Together Oklahoma,
that I recommend them stronglyfor holistic thinking.
If you're someone who wantsmore intersectional approaches
(50:01):
to things, they're trying tolook at things that way you do
not have to agree witheverything that a specific
organization stands for to workwith them on the issues you care
about together.
We have very unusualpartnerships up here across the
aisle, across issuesno-transcript If you're not
(50:37):
positive, what you want toparticipate in.
Connect with these folks.
I see some folks posting reallygreat events.
Focus on, I encourage you tofocus on one level of government
for a minute and not makeyourself be aware of all you are
not going to save the worldtomorrow I know we all want to
but focus on one level ofgovernment and really make your
(50:57):
voice heard there.
Focusing personally you havingone small group or face to face
conversation with a legislatorcould mean so much more than you
emailing city council people,federal people and state people.
So take that time, make thatinvestment.
And the other thing I'drecommend at that same level is,
if you care about who's gettingelected, get involved this year
(51:17):
with candidates you believe in.
So start now.
Look up who's filed forwhatever office you care about I
, of course, care a lot aboutlegislature and find a candidate
you can believe in.
Can you give them a little bitof time?
Literally?
My major volunteers gave methree hours a month.
Those are big volunteers so youcan make a real difference for
(51:39):
a campaign for a woman oranother person that you believe
in this year.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend
and don't forget to leave us areview.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
apply to join our community ofprofessional women, all eager to
help you get there and staythere.
Go to wwwvestherco and applytoday.
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and
founding member of Vest, anorganization connecting women
across industries, regions andcareer levels so that together
we can expedite the pipeline ofmore women in positions of power
and influence.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Vestor Podcast, where we
(00:23):
explore the invisible barriersholding women back in the
workplace and share stories ofwomen building power
collectively.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know I felt overwhelmed and unable to engage
when I got started.
I was so aggravated andfrustrated and annoyed.
The things we were facing andhow I thought decisions were
being made that were impacting,you know, my kids, my
neighborhoods, my family.
Going out and talking to peopleI don't agree with actually
(01:02):
galvanized me and changed myheart in a lot of ways.
I lost a lot of my cynicismabout politics when I was
knocking doors for running foroffice, because you're talking
to people at their home abouttheir values, what they care
about, and they don't fit intoneat boxes.
They cannot be flattened intored or blue.
That's just not the case.
(01:22):
People are very complexcombination of histories,
personal stories, experiences,values and connecting with
people just broke down so muchover that when I go knock doors
it is such an antidote to thetoxic politics stuff because you
know people are worried abouttheir kid, they're worried about
their street, they're worriedabout you know there's very
tangible things and we get sofocused on these big political
(01:46):
storylines instead of what realpeople need.
So to me, getting involvedactually helped my heart, it
helped my optimism, it helped myresolve.
In so many ways I am way lessfrustrated being in office than
I was watching politics from theoutside, than I was watching
politics from the outside.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I have a purple district.
I'm the first Democrat to holdthis particular district and
every year it's been a 52 to 48%margin, and so this last cycle
that meant 300 votes and whenpeople feel like they don't make
a difference, I'm like 300votes is not much.
(02:26):
Women feel the ones I speakwith feel very ignored by state
government.
You know the Roe v Wade gettingoverturned.
No matter how you feel about it, there's a definite vibe from
Republican women, democrat womenthat feel that others are
(02:46):
making decisions about theirbodies, and I get all different
flavors of opinion when I talkabout it.
But just listening andrespecting is largely absent in
today's culture and with thetalking heads on television and
you think that that must be thenarrative.
But really so many people justwant us to come back to center.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
In this episode we talked to Oklahoma State Senator
Julia Kirk and Oklahoma StateRepresentative Melissa
Provenzano about why it'sbecoming harder and harder for
people to engage in politics.
Join us as we talk about whypeople are feeling
disenfranchised.
Join us as we talk about whypeople are feeling
disenfranchised.
We also talk about how we canbetter navigate the process,
skip the noise and be moreeffective in our advocacy
(03:30):
efforts.
To access our guest's full bioand show notes, go to
wwwvestherco forward slashpodcast.
This episode is brought to youby Vestor Ventures, our venture
capital arm investing inwomen-led companies, building
solutions for the intersectionof the care economy and future
(03:52):
of work, and by our vast peernetwork, a network of
professional women acrossindustries, regions and career
levels, helping each othernavigate careers and working
together to build a future ofmore inclusive workspaces.
This conversation was part of amore intimate coaching session
with Vest members and has beenrepurposed to accommodate this
(04:13):
episode.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Good morning, so glad to be here.
Thanks y'all for having us.
I've always wanted to come to aVest meeting and I'm sad that
you had to invite me to speakbefore I finally showed up.
So I'll try to try to do better, but our schedules are a little
wild.
So I am a military kid.
My dad was in the Air Force, mymom was a public school teacher
(04:35):
and then actually went toseminary and became an Episcopal
priest.
So I lived about three placesas a kid, but mostly rooted in
Oklahoma, and I went away tocollege and when I came back for
a few months to stay with myfamily, I fell in love with
Oklahoma again and have beenhere ever since.
And I ran artists organizationfor about 15 years, so working
(04:55):
with artists across the state totry to help them thrive in our
state, and called the Oklahomavisual arts coalition.
We focused on grants, awardsand helping people have the
business skills and platform fortheir work that they wanted.
That work really just made medeeply understand the potential
(05:15):
of our state and how muchcreative potential is here and
how much I want to see.
You know, I've just never beensomeone who's satisfied with the
status quo, so I want to see usdo better.
So over time, that became acare about advocacy and really
caring about what influences theability to be a small business
person in Oklahoma, whatinfluences what affects
(05:36):
creativity, arts, education, howour kids encouraged or
discouraged from their dreamsand passions, and my desire for
the state to be a whole lot morecreative.
Over time, that really came intome advocating for systems, and
so that's how I ended up caringmore about what the legislature
was doing, and then also, at thesame time, my two kids started
(05:56):
going to our neighborhoodOklahoma City Public School and
we had a great experience there,but budgets started getting cut
literally my first year withkids in school had a great
experience there, but budgetsstarted getting cut literally my
first year with kids in school,and so I got a lot more
familiar with the levels ofgovernment that influence our
public schools and, over time,started organizing other folks
around speaking up to thelegislature, which is, I think,
what really hit me when, afterthe 2016 elections, I just had a
(06:21):
deep feeling that I needed tobe more involved and I got
pushed that maybe I would runfor office someday, and not a
week later, my state senatortold me that he was running to
become the mayor of OklahomaCity, so I suddenly got to
decide if I was ready to do thatwith two young children.
So I was elected in 2018, ranfor about a year and a half
leading up to that, so, butreally it was a combination of
(06:45):
creatives in our state andpublic schools that pushed me
into office.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Representative Provenzano.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Thank you, thank you for having me.
I mean, how do I even matchSenator Kurt, all of that?
I'm impressed that I actuallystarted.
I'm living my whole life inTulsa but love my city, love my
city.
And I became a teacher WillRogers High School, tulsa Public
Schools and taught biology fora long time to hormonal ninth
(07:16):
graders.
They're just right on the cuspof, oh, my goodness, that
seventh hour after everybody'sbeen outside and you have that
lovely smell.
But they were so awesome.
And then I decided to become aprincipal and that was really a
good fit, and ended up as amiddle school principal in a
Title I school in Tulsa.
(07:37):
And man, those kids.
It was fascinating because Ihad come from a real
high-performing school as anassistant and I go to this
really tough school and I'mlooking at the teachers going.
The quality is the same, theyare just as good in both of
these environments.
This population has just dealtwith a different set of issues
(08:01):
and kind of just found my heart.
And that's when I started, whenthe budgets started getting cut
, and I ended up, you know, withthese middle school kids who
would stand in traffic for youonce they know that you're going
to show up every day for themand then to cut a budget, cut a
budget, cut a budget, you know,cut curriculum, cut resource
(08:23):
officers, cut assistantprincipals, until you're just
like I can't do this anymore.
And I did it for 10 yearsstraight where I cut something.
And then the teacher walkouthappened and I came up and I met
my representative, who wastermed out and I thought and did
not get the answers that Iwanted, and so I decided to
(08:44):
stick my toe in.
I went to my husband.
I'm like, okay, so here's thepay, and it's a bit less than
what we can do, but I think wecan do it.
I feel called to do this.
And so we just hit the groundrunning.
And here I am six years laterand education policy remains my
foundation.
(09:04):
But now, once you've done this awhile, everybody sort of
figures out oh, you know, weknow that you're accessible and
we have your number and we knowyour email address, and so now
my plate is also full with youknow the same kinds of issues
that you see from publiceducation.
You know our systems have justbeen ignored for so long here in
Tulsa that the same things thatyou see happening in education
(09:26):
are happening in health andhappening in criminal justice
just do a serious lack offunding and lack of attention
over time.
So I spent a lot of timeresolving constituent issues,
and that's where pretty much allof my legislation comes from.
You know, like the diagnosticmammogram bill that you
referenced, I actually had alady that I was knocking her
door and she told me about thediagnostic mammogram she could
(09:48):
not afford to pay for becauseher insurance you know the cost
was going to be more than shecould even bear with insurance,
and so that's kind of been myfocus, and who knows what bills
I'll run next session as aresult.
So it's kind of enjoyablethough.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, thank you again for saying yes and for serving,
and that's actually a greatsegue to my next question, which
is what are some of the mostcritical issues?
It seemed like every time Iturn on the news, local news,
there's something all of asudden so fire.
So just really curious to hearfrom you both as to what you
consider to be the most criticalissues that you're working on
(10:25):
right now.
We'll start with you,Representative Crowley-Sundon,
then we'll go to Senator Crote.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Oh goodness, I think front and center for me is our
public education system.
And Tulsa is personal becausewe had this, you know, threat of
we're going to pull youraccreditation and you know, and
we're going to do all of thesedifferent things and it was, you
know, very cavalier and it wasvery concerning and the entire
Tulsa community was concernedand we actually plugged into the
(10:52):
business community and said youknow, do you understand what
losing accreditation will looklike for Tulsa?
That means people lose theirjobs, kids have to find new
places to go to school.
It just would upset the localeconomy, you know, not to
mention just the chaos thatensued.
And it's been quieted down fora bit.
(11:14):
But, man, the business communityengaged with us at that point
and reached out to the governorand said we're very concerned,
you know.
And then things got much morecalm and so we're hopeful that
that continues and oursuperintendent does seem to be
in support of Tulsa Public andthe work that they're doing
there.
Bless the teachers and blessthe superintendent.
(11:35):
I'm just hopeful that that willlast.
But there's this sense ofwhat's going to happen next that
I'm always watchful for.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Thank you, senator Kurt.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, I always have a hard time with this because I
think everything intersects andso I have a real hard time with
separating out issues.
But that's not the way it worksup here.
I was telling someone thismorning who was very frustrated
about the process and I said wedon't like holistic thinking, we
don't work that way in ourpolicymaking up here.
So it's very difficult ifthat's how you want to approach
(12:09):
things.
But I'll say fundamentally twobiggest things I really spend
time on.
One is mental health.
I mean I just recognize thatour mental health and substance
use disorder issues across thestate.
Access to appropriate care isone of the most critical issues
and it's affecting all our otherissues.
It affects our family'swell-being, it affects the
(12:29):
workforce and employment, itaffects incarceration, it
affects homelessness, it affectsmany, many things, not to
mention quality of life.
So, mental health and substanceuse I'm really proud to have
helped start the Mental HealthCaucus, which is a way for the
legislature to try to workbetter together and respond to
those biggest needs.
Because I do think we have achallenge around being holistic.
(12:49):
In which case, how do you makesure the right ideas get moved
forward, because there's a lotof different things you know,
2000 bills filed a year and howdo we make sure the ones that
move forward are the ones thatreally can make an impact?
And so I think we're doing abetter job, working with Healthy
Minds Policy Initiative andothers to identify those most
impactful changes to make surepeople have access to care.
(13:11):
And then the other is housing.
When I came in, this was a bigconcern of mine, but I very much
thought, like what in the worldcan I do to help in this area?
It's so overwhelming and,frankly, when you're in the
minority, you have to berealistic about the things.
You can't be involved witheverything and you can't make
change in every area.
But over time it's just.
We finally have caught fire alittle bit.
(13:32):
I think COVID made people moreaware, even the business
community aware, that housing isa real concern.
Unfortunately, we haven't actedon making improvements in terms
of access to affordable housingor our you know, rental
availability or our eviction lawin 40 years.
So we have a lot of catching upto do, but I will say that at
(13:55):
least people are finally fertileand willing to talk about the
challenges and are seeing howthat affects economic
development, how that affectspeople's well-being.
So I've been working a lotaround landlord-tenant law and
I'll tell you that frankly,that's not something that I
wanted to work on, but it isabsolutely necessary and nobody
else wants to work on it, and sothat's something that, frankly,
in the minority party,sometimes that's what you got to
(14:16):
do is take an issue that noneof my friends are going to work
on it, so I'm going to jump inand so I've had a lot of great
angry landlord calls this year.
But I think we have to changethe way we talk about housing in
this country profit fromhousing and how that affects our
families because I think that'sthe big issue up here is how we
(14:36):
balance personal rights andresponsibilities with our
societal needs and well-beingRight, and that's not easy, it's
not clear, but I think housingis one where we're clearly out
of balance in terms of that andwe have to find a new way.
So I've been trying to talkabout housing as a utility or as
the kind of infrastructure thatwe all need, but that's not the
(14:57):
way we've treated it in thiscountry and the state, and I
want to respect local issues.
But anyway, point is isaffordable housing, housing and
how that affects homelessness,how that affects community
stability those are big thingsI'm focused on.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Thank you, senator Curt, and thank you for
outlining the intersectionalitybetween issues.
When we talk about policiesaffecting entrepreneurs, the
first thing everybody wants toaddress is access to capital.
But I'm like you know allpolicy is entrepreneurship
policy, because if we can't fixour health care access system,
you know people are going to beworried about just access to
help.
They're not going to quit theirjobs or start a new company
(15:34):
because of the fear of missingthat.
You know the way our healthcare system is structured is
very much dependent on employeeemployer based access.
So, anyways, I love that youincluded that access.
So, anyways, love that youincluded that comment.
So thank you so much.
There's a lot of apathy rightnow in the general public
regarding politics.
In fact, when we ask women,they often state I'm juggling so
(15:59):
many things, you know I don'thave really time to engage in
politics.
Another thing they've told usis I really don't trust
politicians.
There's too much divisivenessand hostility.
The other reason why they saythey don't engage is I already
know how I'm going to vote, so Ijust don't.
You know I don't need to engageand or my vote doesn't matter,
(16:21):
my voice doesn't matter,particularly in states where you
know they feel that they're theminority.
So what do you have to sayabout that and how do you
convince people, particularlywomen, to engage you?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
know I felt overwhelmed and unable to engage
.
When I got started.
I was so aggravated andfrustrated and annoyed.
The things we were facing andhow I thought decisions were
being made that were impactingmy kids, my neighborhoods, my
family At when in that time, Iwas really focused on city
(16:54):
council and school board reallythe areas of government that I
focused on.
But over time I realized somany of the decisions I cared
about were being made at thestate legislature.
I got to say going out andtalking to people I don't agree
with actually galvanized me andchanged my heart in a lot of
ways.
I lost a lot of my cynicismabout politics when I was
(17:15):
knocking doors for running foroffice, because you're talking
to people at their home abouttheir values, what they care
about, and they don't fit intoneat boxes.
They cannot be flattened intored or blue.
That's just not the case.
People are very complexcombination of histories,
personal stories, experiences,values and connecting with
(17:36):
people just broke down so muchover that.
And even now I mean I thinkProvenzano is the same when I go
knock doors.
It is such an antidote to thetoxic politics stuff because you
know people are worried abouttheir kid, they're worried about
their street they're worriedabout.
You know, there's very tangiblethings and we get so focused on
these big political storylinesinstead of what real people need
(17:57):
.
So, to me, getting involvedactually helped my heart, it
helped my optimism, it helped myresolve.
In so many ways I am way lessfrustrated being in office than
I was watching politics from theoutside.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
I'll hop in and echo what I saw.
Jessica just type in the thing.
And I have a purple district.
I'm the first Democrat to holdthis particular district and
every year it's been a 52 to 48percent margin, and so this last
cycle that meant 300 votes, andwhen people feel like they
(18:33):
don't make a difference, I'mlike 300 votes is not much.
And so you know it's the sweatequity that you have to get out
on the doors and knocking doors.
And I'll echo what Senator Kurtzsaid, that to have those
conversations, in particularwith women, when you're at their
door, they want to have aconversation.
(18:55):
You know, if you're saying Idon't have the time, it means I
need more information.
But I need to have a deep andwide conversation with you,
versus just you know, here's amailer and decide how you you,
how you feel.
But you know, I will tell you,women feel, the ones I speak
with feel very ignored by, bystate government.
(19:16):
You know the Roe v Wade gettingoverturned, no matter how you
feel about it, there's adefinite, definite vibe from
Republican women, democrat womenthat feel that that others are
making decisions about theirbodies, and so that's an easy
talking point to pivot to to youknow and and and I get all
(19:36):
different flavors of opinionwhen I talk about it, but just
listening and respecting islargely absent in in today's
culture and with the talkingheads on television and you
think that that must be thenarrative, but really so many
people just want us to come backto center when you have those
one-on-one conversations and usbeing willing to do that is the
(19:59):
key piece.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Can I respond a little bit more and just add to
something I saw in the chat,which is I think some people
worry, you know, does theirvoice matter in this process?
And you know, like I saw oneone comment of like I already
know how I'm gonna vote.
Right, you already know you'regonna vote, but it's so much
more complex than that.
Like every day, we decide whereto put our attention, and
(20:24):
constituent voices and communityleaders are how we make that
decision.
I mean, I'll take anything thatI have not already had on my
radar as a priority issue.
If a constituent raises it, I'mgoing to look into it and learn
more, and we are flooded withissues that we can be engaged on
and constituents absolutelydrive that.
(20:44):
I'll add to that.
I think one of the things thatexhausted me before and made me
feel unable to participate was Iwas trying to watch all levels
of government.
I was trying to be reallyinformed about federal.
I was trying to be reallyinformed about state, local.
It's too much and you may beable to do that.
Bravo to you if you're able todo that.
For me it was not a healthybalance, so I'm very out of the
(21:06):
loop on what's happening at thefederal level.
I cannot watch it and it makesme crazy because I'm able to
have a vote here and I'm not.
You know it's very difficult tomake change at the federal
level.
But I also had to check outfrom being always engaged with
city level stuff and schoolboard level stuff, because it's
just too much Like my braincan't handle it.
I can't engage on all theseissues.
So I think it's about what ismeaningful engagement to you,
(21:29):
and I think sending an emailhere and there is probably not
meaningful engagement.
You know, whereas serving on acommittee or being always,
always, always connecting withother advocates and we'll talk
about that more but those arethe kinds of things that make a
difference is being part of amovement or being part of a
change that's bigger than justyou.
It's not all one way we reallyset this up, where it's like
(21:50):
constituents talking to theirelected officials, but it really
should be reciprocal and thereshould be community connections
too.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I have to echo that.
My inbox.
Today I sit on theAdministrative Rules Committee.
I have gotten hundreds andhundreds and when it's from a
constituent in my districtbecause I always scroll to the
bottom to see what their addressis and if they're in my
constituent then I definitelypay more attention.
But the emails have gotten morepersonalized, which hooks me a
little bit more.
You know, here's my story.
Here's why I ask, because somuch of the email traffic is cut
(22:37):
and paste and click to send.
So it's evolving, I would say.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You lead into my next question and I promise Vast
members, we're going to get.
I see already that we have alot and we're going to get to
your questions, but before we dothat, we're talking about how
overwhelming it can be.
It really is a big challenge,right?
That is a lot of times whypeople don't engage is because
the process alone can beoverwhelming.
(23:03):
Do you have any other tips for,in addition to talking
one-on-one, not focusing just onheadlines but focusing on the
actual issues and picking?
You know where they're going tofocus?
Is there anything else that youwant to share with us?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I'll hop in.
I mean so.
It's overwhelming for us too,and especially during deadline
weeks.
This is one of our firstdeadline weeks and I can go from
the time I wake to the time Igo to sleep doing this job
during especially duringdeadline week and during session
, and just those brain breaksthat I have to take where I put
(23:38):
my phone in another room or I goon a walk or I you know, it
actually prepares me to comeback and dive right back in and
be effective.
I think you have to decide whatmatters most to you and target
that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, I, I like I would say, limit what you are
going to engage on, because Ithink it could be so aggravating
to have too many things you'retrying to engage on, because I
think it could be so aggravatingto have too many things you're
trying to engage on.
And I mean my biggestrecommendation is to connect
with other people who care aboutthe same issues.
You know that could be yourneighborhood, you know that
could be your school, that couldbe an advocacy organization.
(24:14):
Just, no one should go it alonebecause there are a few solo,
you know super woman advocatesup here, who?
But they are here, but theyburn themselves out too If
they're up here trying to changethe law by themselves and talk
to every legislatoren.
Example, which is when I wasknocking doors, it was 788 was
on the ballot, which is themedical marijuana measure, and I
(24:46):
always asked for my list ofvoters to include people who
just registered, because I loveto talk to people who just
registered.
So I went to see a whole lot ofpeople the week after the
medical marijuana vote who werebrand new registrants.
They registered just for thatstate question and I had several
tell me well, we're done, itpassed.
And I was like oh, oh no, youneed to engage because all this
(25:10):
has changed and I think theythought it was a yes or no vote.
Now it's in.
But since that time, just onthat one state question, we've
changed how the money flows,we've changed the definitions,
we've changed everything aboutwhat that state question was.
And so when you think about anygiven issue, if you focus in
closely, that's fine, you canmake a big difference engaging
on that and that level of change.
(25:32):
But I guess the point is it'snot a one and done kind of
situation.
You have to.
It has to be issues you careabout.
That you're willing to engageon over and over again.
And I'll just add like youdon't have to know the perfect
solution either, like I thinksometimes when I was outside the
building and an advocate, Ithought I needed to come in with
all the answers for people.
And you know, if you're HungerOklahoma, you might need to,
(25:53):
because y'all are makingspecific proposals.
But other folks, you can comein and tell your story and say
I'm frustrated and the state isnot helping with this.
You know, sometimes that's thekind of change you need.
And if you point out that it'sintersectional, that's only.
That's only fair Because, forinstance, in our state, we
overwhelmingly spend money oncrisis instead of prevention.
I think that's something youcould raise across many, many
(26:16):
issue areas, so it doesn't haveto be like you don't have to
have a strategic plan for thestate, on whatever issue you're
trying to prepare, in order toengage.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, you touched on something that I think gets
into this issue of engagingRight, and that is the
(26:47):
environments in state likeOklahoma and, by the way, most,
although most of our members arebased in Oklahoma, when we're
talking about our podcasts it'sactually nationwide and I think
we're seeing it nationwide,regardless whether we're talking
about local, state or federalpolicies but it feels like the
environment can seem hostile fora lot of people, particularly
women, particularly people ofcolor, the LGBTQ plus community.
I don't want to put it on thembecause I feel like every time
we are addressing issues, wealways put it in the most
marginalized community to kindof, you know, figure out how we
(27:11):
overcome or how do we solve.
So I want to put it back on us.
How can we, what is ourresponsibility, to change or
counter a lot of these false,negatives and hostile laws which
make it harder for people toengage?
But also, I mean, when we'retalking about businesses, right,
(27:31):
and wanting people to not justengage in politics but even stay
in our state or recruit them toour state, it's really hard to
do that when people don't feelsafe or don't feel wanted in our
state.
So what do you have to sayabout that?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I mean I just say it's so hard and I confirm that
it's unacceptable.
And I frequently see many of myconstituents who don't feel
safe and all I can do day to dayis, you know, help them know
that they're elected, official,listens and cares.
And I mean last summer Icarried a sign for pride that
(28:08):
just said this legislator fightsfor your rights.
And it was kind of cheesy insome ways.
Like you know, I feel cheesyeven saying it, but I mean
people were feeling underminedand that was meaningful to
people.
I got a lot of applause andhugs and appreciation for that.
So that's one thing.
The other I would say don'tgive up.
(28:30):
You know I think change is slowand we're hoping that this is
the last gasp of certainpatriarchal structures.
Frankly, I don't mean to beoverly grandiose about it, but
you know there's a desperateneed to hold on to control
that's happening.
Even, as you know, women in thelegislature there's only.
We're just a little over 20% ofthe legislature, so it's a very
(28:51):
male dominated world.
You know we still have toreally angle to be taken
seriously.
I think we are, because we workin a bipartisan manner and they
know we do our work, butthere's still a lot of things
you would expect happening uphere, and I think there's a lot
of fundamental disregard for theneeds of people of color and
for for women.
(29:12):
So I think, just thatconsistency, the more of us that
show up.
They know they have torecognize and notice these
issues.
They know they have torecognize and notice these
issues and so it's.
It's a long-term, it's a it's.
It's not a change that's goingto happen overnight, because it
absolutely does matter who runsfor office.
I've been watching SenatorMichael Brooks Jimenez, whose
(29:32):
personal goal has been torecruit and help elect more
Latino, latino folks in Oklahoma, and you know that means he got
one more person three years ago.
Hey, that's a doubling of thenumber of Latino folks in the
legislature.
And while that's depressing insome ways, in other ways it's
been great and huge.
And you know, now there's aLatino caucus and he's helped
(29:56):
recruit people for school board.
So our school board at OklahomaCity Public Schools, which is
majority Hispanic, now has twoLatinas on the school board.
That's difference, that's adifference and so I think that
making those changes over timeand I think that is our
responsibility in office tobring people along with us as
much as possible.
So for me that's young people.
(30:16):
I spent a lot of time trying torecruit young people that I
don't think would would have avoice.
I make a real big emphasis, mypage program, like I don't want
the student class president, Iwant kids that that might not
have these opportunitiesotherwise.
So that's where I start.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, I'd have to agree.
I'm thinking about you knowthat, that sign, and then that I
saw you walking within prideand I'm like how do I get one of
those and got it printed andmarched in the Tulsa Pride
Parade in the hundred andfifteen degree heat but got so
many hugs?
But it's, it's so.
I think it's important thatwe're willing to say the thing.
(30:57):
You know if you know what Imean.
And when next Benedict here onour side of the state passed
away, it was a powerful momentof sorrow, but honestly, I took
away just this emoticum of hopeas well.
I went to the Tulsa vigil and Iwas scheduled to speak, and so I
(31:22):
called someone and said OK,what would you even want to hear
from a legislator you know, forsomething like this?
And so I got my remarks togetherand when I showed up there were
well over a thousand peoplethere at the Guthrie Green close
to 1,500 easily.
And I thought this is a momentthat all of these families and
(31:45):
friends and supporters aresaying enough, and to be able to
look around you and see howmany other people are or have
had enough and are there insupport of this community was
powerful.
And since then I've seen somany more people willing to
speak up in the Tulsa area andsay this is not okay, just
(32:09):
because you know you're notalone and we demonstrated it.
And so I think you knowattending events like that,
being willing to say the hardthing, grows that effort.
And I know that the TransAdvocacy Coalition in the Tulsa
area their membership has justexploded, you know, and they're
getting ready to have their.
You know two or three moreevents that, and so you know
(32:32):
visibility also brings a senseof fear as well, but they have
good relationships formed withlaw enforcement where they know
that they can be protected.
You know in very precise wayswhen they go out and do what
they do.
So I think we're on the path,but you gotta be willing to talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
You touched on something, you know, when we
launched Vest, actually a lot ofthe criticism came from women,
right, saying that.
Well, women, you know, when itcomes to my career and
navigating my career, oftentimesit's been women who've made it
hard for me to achieve, and Ithink we need to recognize that
(33:10):
right.
I think we need to recognize it, but I also need to, I think we
also need to look at it from abroader perspective.
You mentioned this, senatorKurt.
We live in a patriarchalsociety.
We also, you know, when itcomes to the workplace, it's
been dominated by mentalcolleagues.
(33:30):
It was created with a veryunique persona that usually had
a support system, and so all ofthe policies and how the
workplace has evolved has served, continues to serve, primarily
that one persona and as such,you know, it's created a lot of
competitive, a competitivenature amongst women.
It also isolates women and italso honestly causes us to
(33:52):
assimilate rather than fix thesystems or fix the workplaces.
And I'm just curious if you'veexperienced that in your you
know, as you serve, what is theenvironment like for you,
particularly being in theminority party?
And then I'm also going toattach another question to that,
because I've been asked to tocome and speak on policies that
(34:17):
affect women, and after I speak,you know I'll get a lot of text
messages, some from legislatorswho will say I agree with you
100%, but I can't say it outloud or I can't vote a certain
way because of my constituentsor because of my party, where my
party's in, and stuff like that.
I want to know the truth.
(34:39):
I want to know is it reallythat hostile of an environment?
Is there a balance betweenserving constituents and
creating education amongconstituents and doing the right
thing even though they may notthink it's the right thing for
their communities?
I'll leave that for later, butright now let's focus on what is
really the environment like forwomen, particularly women in
(35:04):
the minority?
And what would you say to yourcolleagues who continue to vote,
oftentimes against ourselves,right, like in policies that
actually hurt us more than theyhelp us?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I mean I'll hop in.
I don't think it's that clear.
I'll be curious what RepProvenzano will say.
But I think I faced lesschallenges being an older woman.
When I started running I waslike 44.
My colleagues who were in their20s or 30s faced unbelievable
things while running and theywere really disregarded and, I
(35:37):
think, unusually sexist responseto women candidates.
I think because I was, you know, 20 years into my career and
had a lot of.
I don't know, maybe it's justdifferent when you hit that edge
.
But so I didn't face people,didn't hit on me on the doors, I
didn't get dismissed.
People took me seriously.
I know from many of mycolleagues that when they
started running, peopledismissed them.
(35:58):
You know I'll never forgetrepresentative Munson telling me
about being dismissed andpreparing me, you know, for
people dismissing me and then itjust didn't happen and I think
that's just a privilege of ageand and.
But I will say that up here isvery personal, very personal.
Everything is very personal andyou know, as much as I don't
(36:19):
like that, I understand it.
You know we are humans, werelationships mean everything,
um and so um.
I mean I was warned about thisand I think I couldn't have done
it when I was younger because Iwas way more of a protest on
the corner type person.
But I have to work really hardto break down stereotypes and
build relationships with folksbecause I knew, coming in like I
, I'm an educated urbanvegetarian.
(36:42):
You know there's all thesethings that are going to make me
scary to a lot of my colleagues, and so I've worked really hard
to be friendly and connect withpeople in a meaningful way.
It is very personal, so I'lljust tell you that folks want us
to have almost like a debatecompetition.
Sometimes I mean, I hear frompeople who wish that I'd said
more or that we were making youknow we were breaking them down
(37:03):
more.
There is a huge politicalcapital cost for that and we
have to decide do we want to bein the conversations?
Are there things we can dobehind closed doors?
Are there?
Is there harm reduction we cando and we can blow up
relationships with one debate?
We can, and it's unfortunate itactually is making my stomach
turn right now talking about it,because it's a political
(37:25):
reality, which is people havevery thin skin and I'll say I
think the men have thinner skin.
They don't want to be criticizedin public.
They don't want to look bad orlook like they're not doing the
right thing.
They still view themselves ashaving the right intentions.
So it's very easy to offend andpart of me of course wants to
be like, oh, who cares?
(37:46):
But the other part is we're infamily with these folks for
another potentially six years.
It's like having step family orsomething Like you just can't
change them.
So I think caution is needed andI think that's part of the
reason why Rep Provenzano hasgotten such so much done I mean,
I literally voted on at leasttwo Provenzano bills yesterday
(38:07):
on the Senate floor is becauseshe's been judicious about
issues she approaches and howyou treat other people.
So we have to we, we do have tobe super careful, and I would
say that there's I wish therewas more of a collaborative
expectation, but I will say thatsometimes asking questions,
(38:27):
even privately, is viewed as anattack when it should be.
We're trying to make the bestpolicy possible.
So I both want to change that,but at the same time, the
reality of it is am I going tobe isolated and I'm just talking
to myself, or am I going to bea part of the conversation?
And so that's the calculuswe're playing every day.
It's painful sometimes.
Sometimes I support things ordon't debate things that I wish
(38:49):
I could, but I also have to makethose decisions every day what
I think is going to be best forOklahoma and for constituents.
So I agonize over it.
It's like a moral dilemma onthe daily.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
I have to think back about when we were getting the
Women's Caucus started, firstmeeting.
Every single senator andrepresentative that was a woman
came to caucus and then therewas a few less, and then there
was a few less, and then therewas a few less.
Our Republican members werebeing pressured to not come and
(39:25):
this was about three years agoand and oh you know, they're
going to try and peel you offand do whatever it is we're
doing in secret caucus orsomething like that.
But but it was the start ofsomething and we still have the
Women's Caucus going on and westill have the Women's Caucus
going on and we have a Democratand a representative from the
(39:49):
House and from the Senate thatputs together things that the
issues that matter to women.
And you know, while some don'tcome, others do, others have
come back and I think we'recontinuing to grow, but it still
requires effort.
We're continuing to grow, butit still requires effort.
But there are things thatmatter to all women,
irregardless that we find commonground within that caucus.
(40:09):
For example, you know, gettinginsurance to pay for diagnostic
mammograms.
Every single woman, except forone through that caucus, signed
on to that bill, got it acrossthe line and several men,
because they had mother, mothersand sisters and and cousins who
had had breast cancer.
(40:30):
You know it was.
You know, and I'm like this iswhat we could do around an
apolitical issue, except forblue cross and blue shield that
didn't care for the bill.
But they, they got over it andso I think the opportunity is
there.
But then, you know, pivoting tothe thing about the competition
that's so real, you know,between women.
(40:51):
But at the same time, you know,I actually am thankful for our
leadership now, because we haveevolved into an intentional
lifting of women up.
You know, regardless, but ithas to be on purpose that you
focus and go.
How do I lift her up and how doI elevate her voice in a
(41:11):
meeting when you know agentleman might say almost
exactly the same thing?
You know, five minutes later,you know, you pivot to go.
Oh yeah, you know, shelley justsaid that a few minutes ago and
I could not agree with her more, you know, and so we've pivoted
to, you know, and if you notice, the caucus leaders for the
Democrats are both women, and soyou know, lifting those voices
(41:34):
up has also started to evolvethe way we talk.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
That's.
That's fantastic to hear, and Ido think we need to be
intentional.
I was not always this way, youknow.
I was guilty of being toofocused on myself or, you know,
whatever I was dealing with, tonot think of the women next to
me, so I'm glad to hear thatthat's happening.
I want to open it up.
There's a lot of questions.
I'm going to ask the vast teamto help me moderate.
(42:01):
I know some of them havealready been answered, so I
don't you know.
I want to get to the ones thatmaybe we have not heard.
Jessica, at the beginning yousaid do either of you have
thoughts on how we can work toget the legislature as a whole
to think more holistically, andare there certain people that
can be more effective indelivering that message?
Speaker 3 (42:23):
I think I'll just jump in and say, yes, we
absolutely can.
We also, at this point in time,have a changeover in the top
leadership, have a changeover inthe top leadership, and so
we'll see.
You know, in the House and inthe Senate this next cycle
there's a large number of peopleat the top that are coming out,
and so I think we have to beready to kind of press in to new
(42:48):
leaders wanting to do thingsdifferent and make their own
mark and make sure women'sissues are part of that in a
more common sense way.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I mean, I think it's going to have to be a demand of
constituents in terms ofholistic or intersectional
thinking and because we don'thave, you know, at the municipal
level they have a planningdepartment, they have people who
are thinking this way, who arelooking at demographics.
We don't have that at the statelevel, which makes me just nuts.
So really, in theory, thegovernor's kind of you know,
(43:18):
vision or strategic plan for theorganization, for the state,
but they're, you know, they haveno more than four years
guaranteed, so it's not built into our process and I think we
need people pushing forward.
I think about the differencethat Potts Family Foundation
made in terms of teachinglegislators about adverse
childhood experiences.
I mean, when I came in, theywere making a real push to make
(43:41):
sure everybody was informedabout ACEs and I think still are
.
But I mean, for me that was.
I learned about ACEs from thembecause they cared to make us
think holistically about traumaand understanding how that
affects us for our whole lives,and so I think it can happen,
but it takes intentional effortagain.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I'm going to mix one of Perrin's questions with.
There's been a lot of policiesthat I think it's important for
all of us to be aware.
I know that again you share oneabout immigration, which
obviously I'm also very much intune with and passionate about,
but others have shared otherharmful legislation.
One of Perrin's questions ishow effective are kind of
(44:22):
touched on this before but howeffective are constituent emails
and what's the best way to kindof address those issues?
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Number one in person.
You know, if that's up, you donot have to come to the Capitol.
If they have events in yourdistrict, go to the events.
If a candidate ever knocks yourdoor, do not let them leave
that porch until you tell themwhat you care about.
I can't tell you.
I knocked 20,000 doors for myfirst election.
I probably only had five or sixpeople who really grilled me
(44:54):
about specific things that theywere concerned about.
I mean, that's a very tinypercentage.
So do not let them go without.
Like campaign year, electionyear is the best year to be
heard because they have to thinkabout who they elect.
The other recommendation isfocus on your legislators.
First, because I'm going toconnect with.
Another question that came inwas do I talk to my people, even
(45:16):
though I think they agree withme?
Yes, because we needjustification to stick our neck
out all the time.
So it helps if I can say oh,I've just been flooded with
emails about that or I haveconstituents who care a whole
lot about that.
That helps me oppose mycolleagues without taking as
much heat, because I can sayit's my district saying that.
But in-person is best.
Second would be phone.
(45:36):
I know everyone hates phone,but phone is absolutely next.
Email would be way below that,because it does look like
copy-paste.
A lot of the language ends upbeing the same and eyeball to
eyeball changes the wholescenario.
So I strongly recommendface-to-face.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Perrin, turning it over to you.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
Thank you so much.
This is so helpful and awesome,and I have probably too many
things that I'm passionate aboutand care about.
But, senator Kurt, you saidthat, okay, showing up in person
is the best thing to do, but myand I feel like I'm decently
informed, but I don't reallyknow, like, do I just show up to
(46:19):
the Capitol anytime and go andtalk to my representative and
senator?
Are there like specific timesthat are good options for people
?
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, great question.
So all of us have either anexecutive assistant or a
legislative assistant.
You can call the office and askwe meet Monday through Thursday
.
There are times when you're notgoing to find us available
because we all have caucusmeetings and so the best way is
to call ahead and ask.
Even better, invite yourlegislator to coffee in the
(46:53):
district, and they can do thaton a Friday or on a weekend or
the summer.
You know, the less timesensitive it is, the easier it
is to make that happen.
If they won't do that, show upat their events.
But yeah, call up here Ifyou're going to just show up.
It is an interruption culture.
So I'm really a rule followerand so I hated coming up here if
(47:14):
I didn't have appointmentsbecause I was like, oh, I don't
want to interrupt.
This is how this building works.
And so if you come up here andyou're a constituent, you go to
your legislator's office, yoursenator or your house member,
you ask the LA or EA if they'reavailable.
If they're not available, ifthey're in committee, to pull
people off the floor.
And I never in a million I'msuch a it's such a like woman
(47:35):
stereotype I never would havedone that as an advocate,
because I would have been like,oh I sure wouldn't want to
trouble them.
That's how this place works andthat's sometimes the only
chance you get to catch a minuteface to face with someone.
So if we're on the floor youcan send in a slip for us to
come out.
(47:57):
Most people responsive to theirconstituents If they're not
that's I mean, like SenatorHicks always tells about her
senator during the teacherwalkout would never meet with
her, which is one of the reasonsshe ran for office and won.
So if your person is notresponsive, that tells you a lot
.
You can also go in pairs, likeI really recommend go with a
friend if it's an overwhelmingthing to you or if you have
other people so that they canlisten and you can listen and
you're not just.
You don't have to be one-on-one.
You can be in small groups andthat's fine.
But yeah, logistically you cancall the office and get schedule
(48:17):
information.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I want to close with what are your three takeaways
that you want Vest members toleave with today that are
actually like things that we canactually do this week or next
week.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Gosh, I think honestly, do not be afraid.
We are all just human beings uphere and you are a human being.
You are on our same level andso show up and hold us
accountable, please, please.
It's amazing how much aconstituent, even one or two,
that show up or call on thephone, can sway a vote on
(48:55):
something you care about andthat is your right to do so.
You know, or you know showingup matters with regard to women,
the importance of lifting otherwomen up and and having hard,
being willing to have hardconversations and not holding
back.
It's intimidating, but do itanyway.
(49:16):
I think those would be my toptwo.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I'll think of what they're going to hear in a
minute Senator.
Yeah, I just wanted to lift upjust focusing on a change you
want to see and connecting withother people who care about that
issue closely and I know youknow many of you already are.
But you know many of youalready are.
But you know, focus that onsomething that you want to
change.
That can be a neighborhoodthing, that could be a city
(49:41):
thing, that could whatever it is, and connect with other people
on it, because I just thinkbeing a solo advocate is no fun,
it doesn't make change and youneed other people you're along
with.
And then I agree I see thatposts about Together Oklahoma,
that I recommend them stronglyfor holistic thinking.
If you're someone who wantsmore intersectional approaches
(50:01):
to things, they're trying tolook at things that way you do
not have to agree witheverything that a specific
organization stands for to workwith them on the issues you care
about together.
We have very unusualpartnerships up here across the
aisle, across issuesno-transcript If you're not
(50:37):
positive, what you want toparticipate in.
Connect with these folks.
I see some folks posting reallygreat events.
Focus on, I encourage you tofocus on one level of government
for a minute and not makeyourself be aware of all you are
not going to save the worldtomorrow I know we all want to
but focus on one level ofgovernment and really make your
(50:57):
voice heard there.
Focusing personally you havingone small group or face to face
conversation with a legislatorcould mean so much more than you
emailing city council people,federal people and state people.
So take that time, make thatinvestment.
And the other thing I'drecommend at that same level is,
if you care about who's gettingelected, get involved this year
(51:17):
with candidates you believe in.
So start now.
Look up who's filed forwhatever office you care about I
, of course, care a lot aboutlegislature and find a candidate
you can believe in.
Can you give them a little bitof time?
Literally?
My major volunteers gave methree hours a month.
Those are big volunteers so youcan make a real difference for
(51:39):
a campaign for a woman oranother person that you believe
in this year.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend
and don't forget to leave us areview.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
apply to join our community ofprofessional women, all eager to
help you get there and staythere.
Go to wwwvestherco and applytoday.
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