September 3, 2025 • 53 mins
When we talk about startup runway, we obsess over finances, how many months until the money runs out. But what about the founder's emotional runway? That invisible reservoir of energy, resilience, and motivation that keeps a company alive even when the path forward seems impossible?
In this deeply personal and practical conversation, Claudia Naim Burt, Co-founder and COO of Keep Company, shares how she discovered the concept of emotional runway through her own struggle to sustain herself while building a venture-backed startup. As one of only 250 Latinas to raise over $1 million in venture capital, Claudia brings a unique perspective to the challenges of entrepreneurship, motherhood, and maintaining wellbeing when everything feels urgent.
The emotional runway framework offers a strategic way to think about personal sustainability. Just as financial runway helps you make business decisions, emotional runway helps you make intentional choices about your time and energy before hitting burnout. Claudia shares her process of conducting an "energy audit" to identify activities that drain versus replenish her, and how making seemingly indulgent choices (like taking hour-long walks) became non-negotiable investments in herself as a key business asset.
Throughout our conversation, we explore powerful frameworks for extending your emotional runway:
- Reframing choices through values rather than guilt
- Recognizing the spectrum of burnout rather than viewing it as binary
- Making needs explicit rather than implicit
- Finding connection with peers as the ultimate antidote to isolation.
We also dive into how these principles apply differently across various seasons of business and life, and the importance of regularly renegotiating your contract with yourself about what matters most.
Ready to extend your emotional runway? Listen now and discover practical strategies to protect your wellbeing while leading through challenging times.
Your business and the people who depend on you will thank you for it.
Whether you’re running a business or building a career in corporate America, if you’re ready to extend your emotional runway, 🎧 Listen now.
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If you are ready to take your career and business to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Learn more at www.VESTHer.co
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When founders talk about building a company, the
conversation almost always comesback to one thing Runway.
How long can the business keepgoing before the money runs out?
But there's another kind ofrunway we don't talk about
nearly enough the emotionalrunway.
Because, let's be honest, it'snot just the bank account that
keeps a company alive.
(00:21):
It's the founder's energy,resilience and ability to keep
showing up every day.
And when that emotional runwayruns out, companies can break
apart, even if the financialslook strong.
That's exactly what we'redigging into today.
How do you protect yourwell-being when the weight of
the business is on yourshoulders?
(00:41):
How do you keep leading whenstepping back doesn't feel like
an option?
Hey everyone, I'm GabbyEichenlaub, coo at Vest and your
host for today.
In this episode, I'm joined byClaudia Naeem Burt, co-founder
and COO of Keep Company, apatented group learning platform
built on real human connection.
(01:02):
Keep Company has closed over $3million in venture capital
financing, making Claudia one ofonly 250 Latinas to raise over
$1 million in venture capital.
Together, we'll explore how torecognize burnout before it
derails you, what it means tobuild a business that supports
(01:22):
your life, not consumes it, andpractical ways to extend your
emotional runway, even duringthe busiest seasons.
For our guest's full bio andshow notes go to wwwvestherco
forward slash podcast.
And if you enjoyed the episode,don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and leave us areview.
Tell us what wasn't in the bioand where the term emotional
(01:45):
runway came from.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, not in the bio mom of two boys, I have a
four-year-old and aseven-year-old.
So reverence, empathy,camaraderie for everybody
navigating back to school,mental load, chaos, and
originally from Venezuela andhave been in back and forth
between Venezuela and the DCarea always.
(02:09):
So emotional runway.
One of the things I am, youknow, a mom, a caregiver, a
founder, a manager, a sister,right, All of these things and
one of the things that I startedto feel was I didn't have the
words for it, but my emotionalrunway going down and what I
(02:31):
started to do was I have toolsin my toolkit, and so I have a
therapist, I have friends, Italk to my sister all day long,
right, so, like, I haveself-awareness, but what I found
was it wasn't enough and so Ineeded a new tool.
So I started working with anexecutive coach who is
phenomenal and works withfounders specifically, so she
(02:52):
really understands, like, thepace and the challenges of the
stage that I'm building at, andshe introduced me to this term,
emotional runway, which is, asbusiness owners, as leaders,
whether you're managing abusiness unit or a function or a
business entirely.
We talk a lot about runwayright or burn rate.
(03:14):
Like how many if you did notmake a single dollar more
revenue.
Or if you hit your goals, howmany months of runway does the
business have to operate on?
And they're always thinkingabout cost benefit through that
lens.
And she said there is such athing that's financial runway,
right, there is such a thing.
And just to ground, I think oneof the goals with that term is
(03:37):
to provide that forwardperspective so that you can make
more strategic choices today,so that you can say, okay, if my
burn rate is three months, thenI have different choices that
I'm going to be making than ifmy burn rate is 12 months, Right
.
And so she said you need to.
She was like she said I hearyou thinking about your, your
run rate, your burn rate, your,you know, you know your runway
(04:01):
financially, but you need to bethinking about it emotionally
too.
This is an emotional game asmuch as it is an intellectual
one, and so she really one ofthe things that she did was have
me do like an energy audit.
So what are the things thatgive you energy and what are the
things that don't?
Over the course of your day,both work and family and self.
And very quickly, certainthings came to the surface, of
(04:23):
things that drain my energy andthings that give me energy.
And so she said you know,investing in things that give
you energy is extending youremotional runway, In other words
, how long you can run at thispace or in this way, in this way
.
And so what it allowed me to dowas to make more strategic
(04:44):
choices about what I did.
So if I, you know, we're alwaystalking about boundaries, we
know that that is a huge skillwe all have to build to have
more sustainability in ourcareers and in our lives, what
it allowed me to do is itempowered me to actually set
those boundaries.
It gave me like almost arational reasoning behind it.
So if I knew that somebody hadasked me to book the fifth
(05:06):
meeting of my afternoon, but Iknew that that would decrease my
emotional runway for the daybefore I have a really important
call, then I will feel moreempowered to say no.
The other thing that came to thesurface was the single biggest
source of energy for me was timealone, specifically time moving
(05:30):
.
So what I found was, when I dida long walk by myself for one
hour if I crossed that 30-minutemark I started to feel like
ideas, creativity, I feltlighter, I felt more perspective
.
And so she said okay, if youare one of Keep Company's
greatest assets and this issomething that unlocks taking a
(05:51):
one hour walk every day, this issomething that unlocks this key
asset for Keep Company KeepLemonade is my business Then we
need to figure out how to makeyour one hour happen every
single day.
And I looked at her like shehad seven heads.
I was like impossible.
Like are you?
Like haven't I told you what mylife looks like?
I don't want to take it awayfrom time with my kids, but it
(06:12):
certainly came out of theworkday.
So I'm like stuck between arock and a hard place.
And she said if we just look atthis strategically and we're
trying to unlock you as an asset, Our goal is to prolong your
emotional runway so you don'tburn out in three months, you
burn out in 18 months, and atthat point you've changed enough
things that you're not going inthat direction.
Right, and so that's theconcept of emotional runway.
(06:35):
I think similarly, like that isa micro of a choice you can make
over the course of a day, but Ithink big ones are hiring.
Nothing will reduce myemotional runway more than
somebody underperforming.
So if every day I am not.
I and we know these choices arereally hard.
People say you know, hire slowand fire fast.
(06:56):
In practice, when you'restretched thin and have limited
resources, that's really hard todo.
But I think seeing how muchhaving to course correct an
underperformer reduces mybandwidth and emotional runway
and how long I can run is verymotivating to make some kind of
hard but strategic decisionsthat are ultimately best for me
(07:19):
as a resource.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Wow, I love so much that you said and I think one
thing that I got away from it,too, is that burnout to me feels
like very present, like in thepresent moment and runway the
emotional runway aspect is it'salmost like you can be proactive
about something and we're soexcited to have you here to talk
(07:41):
about this.
As I mentioned, we have foundersat different stages, we have
professionals in differentcareers and stages as well, and
a lot of the times founders orprofessionals maybe sometimes
have to wear a lot of hats and Ithink a lot of the times it's
encouraged to just keep pushingthrough and ignore how you're
really doing.
(08:02):
Then sometimes you also have,like this mission to your work
that feels so critical, whetherit's like a social component, a
personal tie, or just even thefact that, like you, are the one
putting food on your plate orfor other people as well, right,
so sometimes taking a second tostep back feels like I just
can't do that, right.
(08:22):
But your work with Keep Companyreminds us that burnout doesn't
just impact our energy.
It affects how we show up asleaders and how we make
decisions and how we even feelconnected to our work or the
people around us.
So I love what you are sayingand I think I'd love to know
just how do you check in withyourself to really assess how
(08:44):
you're actually doing.
I feel like that's somethingthat gets thrown around, but how
do you put that into practice?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, I think that, first of all, I think when we
talk about burnout or well-being, or even on the more clinical
mental health side of depressionand clinical anxiety and these
kinds of things, I think that wetalk about it as a binary
You're burnt out or you're not,you're depressed or you're not,
you're well or you're not and Ithink, realistically, we need to
(09:12):
be talking about it as a fullspectrum and so, realistically,
what we're not trying to do isflip a switch.
You're burned out.
I'm going to do these seventhings and it'll be great.
In four weeks you won't beburned out.
That is not how humans work and, of course, our brains.
It's very attractive, right,like do these things and then
(09:32):
it'll be.
This won't be a problem.
But we are kind of like living,breathing things that are
constantly changing.
Our environment is constantlychanging.
There's only so much that wecan control, so we will always
be living somewhere on thespectrum.
And I think that one of thereasons why so much content and
services and things aboutburnout, why it often sounds
(09:55):
like trite and cheesy and nothelpful, is because the hard
truth is you have to get to knowyourself and figure out what
that looks like for you, and soif you are reading somebody
else's playbook, I don't knowhow hopeful it'll be.
If you get lucky and they havea temperament and a personality
and habits and challenges andassets similar to you, awesome,
(10:16):
copy their playbook.
That is not really realistic.
So I do think there is a lot ofwork of introspection and
self-awareness building tounderstand what that looks like,
and there are lots of tools tobe able to do that.
Certainly, reading is one ofthem looking at frameworks,
seeing what resonates with you.
There is everything I meanthere is therapy, there is
(10:38):
coaching, there are peerexperiences.
We always say that when peopleare struggling, their options
are phone, a friend, so like acompletely unstructured social
environment where they mighthave bandwidth and skill to
support you or not, orone-on-one clinical therapy.
Right, we need to be buildingtools in the toolkit across that
whole spectrum, and so I thinkabout it often, as there are
(11:02):
tools like StrengthsFinders andIMAP and personality tests that
sometimes are helpful inassessing like, not just, are
you an introvert or are you anextrovert, and how does that
insight into yourself, how doesthat inform your decision making
?
I remember my brother was thisis like a long time ago.
He was working in banking andhe is super, super extroverted.
(11:26):
He gets a ton of energy fromother people and he was like 22.
And I'm very introverted.
I recharge alone.
And I remember he called me.
He's like I've been working for24 hours or something crazy.
I'm like go home, eat, sleep.
And he was like are you kiddingme?
I have to go be around peoplebecause that's how I'm going to
recover my baseline and that'slike the ultimate example, right
(11:50):
, like these two extremes.
But I think for me, a lot ofthat awareness honestly came in
living through a postpartumduring the pandemic.
So I had my first child.
My first child is seven, almosteight.
My second child I found out Iwas pregnant with him the first
day of lockdown, and so Iexperienced a very extreme
(12:12):
version, like so many of us didright, of motherhood and
caregiving and working andactive mothering while you know.
And so I think I saw, I saw alot was going around at the time
in 2020, in the kind ofmaternity space, maternal
well-being space, about rage,about maternal rage and what
(12:34):
that looks like the clinicalcomponents, the non-clinical
components and I remembersomebody said rage in mothers is
often the engine light going on, so when your car is like I'm
empty.
Right the, a red light comes onrage.
Often is that engine lightsaying I'm empty, and so I think
it is a way for me.
(12:55):
It's a really powerful metaphor, for how can you figure out
what those lights and warningsignals are for you?
Um and again, I'm happy toshare what they are for me, but
the truth is that, um, there,that is a.
That is work that introspectionrequires.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
No, I love that and I think that having that toolkit
component is so importantbecause it is like you said,
it's not a one size fits all,it's not like this is the magic
answer.
It's really having, whetherit's other people, whether it's
you know, introspection,whatever it is for you, having
being able to go to two or threedifferent things that may work
(13:35):
for you, I think is superimportant.
I'd love to know too youmentioned you know kind of your
postpartum as well, and I'm sure, through building a company or
even professional life, there'sso many different seasons that
we go through and I'd love toknow just your thoughts on how
can founders distinguish between, like a tough season, something
(13:56):
that's you know something quickor short, or that you kind of
get through to something moreserious, like burnout?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's a good question.
I think that there are clinicalmarkers.
I think, like we at KeepCompany, a lot of what we do in
this peer support space, so wecreate groups where we find
peers like you and your industry.
So what that often looks likeis other women at your seniority
level, or other people caringfor a parent with dementia,
(14:22):
other dads who are also at thisseniority level and caring for
adolescent kids, right.
So whatever that looks like foryou because what we have found
is that it is the greatestantidote to burnout is actually
connection.
Feeling like you are the onlyone navigating something is the
greatest accelerant of burnoutthat I have been able to
(14:44):
identify.
And what we found was when wewere starting.
For us, it began with theexperience of motherhood and
then expanded into fatherhoodand caregiving and now all
employee experiences, which isyou know, what we heard over and
over again is it feels like I'mthe only one.
I'm the only one who can't hackit.
I'm the only one who doesn'thave this figured out.
(15:05):
I'm the only one who can'tjuggle the balls.
I'm the only one who doesn'tpost pretty pictures on
Instagram.
I'm the only one who can'tjuggle the balls.
I'm the only one who doesn'tpost pretty pictures on
Instagram.
I'm the only one who doesn'thave this big career.
I'm the only fill in the blank,and it's a very bizarre thing
to be on the other side ofeverybody telling you they feel
like the only one, and so Ireally believe strongly that
finding people like you is thegreatest antidote to burnout.
(15:30):
I think that it's worth notinglike we are living in a time of
loneliness.
I think most people feelloneliness in one way shape or
form.
A lot of the mechanisms fororganic connection that we had
in life and at work are gone.
They have been redesigned andwe have a ton of flexibility
because of that.
We have a ton of access, butthere is a cost and it is human
(15:53):
connection, and so I think forpeople that work only remotely,
that can be a challenge.
I think, like you're not goingto run into somebody at the
grocery store, you might just doInstacart.
You're not going to ask yourfriend to give you a ride,
you're going to grab Uber right.
Like there are all of theseoptimizations that we've done
over the course of the last fiveyears in particular that have
little by little removed thesesmall ways that we connect with
(16:17):
other human beings and I thinkthat that can sound really
superficial but it is truly acore human need and I think,
cumulatively, people don't startto realize that that's what
they're feeling.
And so you know, you might notsay I'm lonely, but you might
say I feel numb, I feeldisconnected, I feel disengaged,
I feel isolated.
(16:39):
But I think on a fundamentallevel, what many of us are
experiencing is loneliness, andthere's so much data I mean the
former Surgeon General, theparting prescription was about
loneliness and the lonelinessepidemic and the impact that
that is taking.
I mean, particularly when youthink about elder care, the data
(16:59):
says that acute and chronicloneliness is the equivalent of
smoking an entire pack ofcigarettes every single day.
So like it has huge impacts toour physical health, not just
our emotional health.
So I think when you look at thetools in the toolkit, different
types of human connection haveto be part of it, no matter
(17:22):
where that is for you.
But I think a core distinctionon the clinical side of like
that line with burnout is thenumbness I was talking about.
So feeling numb, feeling likeyou just don't, can't care, you
just don't have enough energyeven to care, I think
self-isolating for a lot ofpeople can come with burnout.
(17:43):
I think this is particularlytrue with women.
Like your body will startletting you know, so things will
start feeling off, and if youdon't listen to the early
warning signals of your body,you will get bigger signals.
So I do think that,particularly with women, you
start to see a lot of physicalmanifestations as well that are
(18:06):
the cumulative impact of stress.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I definitely saw a lot of head nodding going
on in the in the group, so Ithink a lot of what you're
saying is definitely resonating.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, I think there's also a theme that I'm hearing
in in the chat which is notworking or taking a break or
resting or encouraging your teamto rest.
Somebody was talking about that.
I think those feel like choicesin the negative.
They feel like I am choosingnot to work and that actually
(18:39):
like tricks your brain intogoing into a guilt shame loop,
and so what you want to do istry to trick your brain to do
the opposite.
There is a kind of tool incognitive behavioral therapy
which really focuses on likedissecting our thoughts and
patterns there.
And one thing, one tool thatI've taken from cognitive
(19:03):
behavioral therapy that hasentered this space of like
cognitive behavioral coaching,which I think is really powerful
, is just asking yourself whatdo I value, what matters to me?
And so I'll bring this to lifewith an example I think about
often because I think a lot ofpeople can resonate with it.
So I had had my first child.
(19:24):
I was having a lot of anxietyabout leaving him after I went
back to work.
I had to travel for work at thetime and I had to go to New
York.
I'm in at the time and I had togo to New York.
I'm in DC.
I had to go to New Yorkregularly and I remember feeling
a little bit panicked, liketrue, like physical panic, about
the idea of being in adifferent city from him, even if
it was for 24 hours.
And I remember some somebodysaying to me don't focus on the
(19:47):
fact that you're not going to bewith him.
Focus on what you value and whythose values are driving you to
make these decisions.
And so, for me, what thatsounded like just to bring the
example to life is I value mywork.
I value the space and skillsand means that it gives me.
I value showing up for my team.
(20:08):
I value giving my husband spaceto build his skills with the
child and his bond with thechild.
I value having three hours onthe train where nobody can touch
me right, and that reallyreframes the experience of these
emotions to one of saying I'mchoosing this right, like I am
(20:30):
choosing to value these things,and so for your team that might
be.
If you value the sustainabilityof this work, you need to rest,
because you value being able todo this for more than three
more months, and for yourself.
Similarly, you know somebodysaid how can I show up if I
(20:51):
don't want to.
I think that this exerciseapplies there too.
You're showing up because thereis something you value there,
which of whether it's being ableto have the financial means to
make other decisions, whether itis finishing a project that you
started because you have avalue of accountability and
ownership, whether it is thepeople that you serve because
(21:13):
you have a value of somethingrelated to the mission.
I think that reframe can bereally powerful in making you
feel like you have agency andlike you are in choice, because,
I mean, there's so much thatall of us are not in choice
about, especially right nowwhere we have like 20 macro
crises everywhere you look right.
(21:33):
I think it can be reallyoverwhelming.
And so, focusing on your valuesand how they're informing your
choices, I heard somebody say Ithink this is not quite right,
but there is something to itwhich is.
I heard somebody say burnout isjust living out of alignment
with your values.
I don't know that it's thatsimple, right.
(21:54):
I think sometimes it'sexhaustion or all these other
things, but there is somethingto values when you're thinking
about being in choice.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Thank you.
Thank you for your, for yourinsight on that.
I think that really goes intokind of this next portion of
questions too, where one of thethings that really resonated
with the founders as we werebuilding out this session was
talking about how to managestress or burnout or, you know,
build out your emotional runwaywhen you feel like you can't
(22:25):
afford to slow down.
The business has to keep moving, whether you're building it or
whether you're in it as aprofessional.
So I'd love to know kind ofwhat it means to manage all that
while you're in the middle, andthat idea of really, you know,
shaping out and saying the ideathat burnout it's not just
personal, it's also structuralin the way we built our
(22:54):
businesses, and you mentionedthat earlier.
How can we as founders or asprofessionals, sometimes C-suite
executives to really rethinkthe systems that we build around
ourselves, whether that'sroutines, relationships, support
?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
that's routines, relationships, support and our
teams.
I think the heart of why thisis such a hard question is
because it changes.
It's a moving target.
So like in the same way that Ihate the word balance, because I
think work-life balance is amirage it assumes that we have
two stagnant parts of ourselvesthat are not pushing and pulling
and that once you got it, yougot it right Versus, really it
is.
This thing is changing andsometimes it pulls harder, and
(23:36):
this thing is changing andsometimes it pulls harder.
And then you're in thisconstant kind of tug of war
between these different parts ofwho you are and your life and
your identity and, from myperspective, your emotional
skills, your self-awareness.
That is strengthening your coreso that when you get yanked
this way by work or yanked thisway by your mother-in-law or
(23:58):
yanked this way by school, youcan come back to center.
So I think, like what makesthat so challenging and I'm
feeling this now is, as you'rein different seasons, what that
looks like will change, and soright now I'm really
reevaluating my kind of supportsystems.
But at Keep Company, I thinkwhat we've come back to is it is
(24:20):
about connection to self, howmuch self-awareness you have
about what is the engine lightfor you, and have you been able
to articulate the things thatgive you energy or bring you
back to baseline?
One nudge I would make there is, like, put it on a post-it note
and put it by your computer oryour desk the five people that
(24:41):
you can call that will give youenergy, or the five things that
you can do that will give youenergy and bring you back to
baseline.
Because I think when you'relike really in it, it can be
hard to remember oh, I havethese tools, oh I have these
people, I have these things thatactually help.
And so I think that it isconnection to self, and then
connection to others, and thatlooks like the relationships you
(25:03):
have both at work and at homeand how you lean on them and
what that looks like.
And then the last piece isconnection to the systems around
you.
We are an employee benefit, sothe system we often think about
is the organization, and thereis a huge amount of tension in
if you feel like your values arenot in alignment with the
(25:24):
values of an organization, theorganization you work for that
can really reduce your emotionalrunway, right, like, and that
makes sense.
And so at that point you comeback to like well,
self-awareness, right, like whatdo I need to be in alignment
with our values, what'simportant to me right now?
And the answer is allowed to beMonday, today and next year,
(25:45):
it's allowed to be time to rest.
And then the year after, it'sallowed to be like you are
allowed to renegotiate thecontract you have with yourself
about what matters, right.
And I think that, particularlyas women, we will have many
seasons of care, we will havemany seasons of career.
It is not linear, and I thinkthat, as the workforce evolves,
(26:05):
that's just more and more true,and so many industries are being
like, really fundamentallyredesigned right now more true
when so many industries arebeing like really fundamentally
redesigned right now.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I love that.
I love being able torenegotiate with yourselves.
You don't have to stay whereyou were at one year ago, and
it's not a failure if you decidethat that's not what you need
today.
So thank you for that importantreminder.
I have a quick question andthen we are going to see what's
going on in the chat.
But you know, as founders, it'seasy to build a business or,
(26:39):
again, a career that looks goodon paper but it doesn't actually
support the kind of life youactually want to live.
So I'd love to know from youwhat boundaries or
non-negotiables have been maybethe hardest to protect but have
made the biggest difference foryour well-being.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
The walk.
I'll tell you, like that, onehour walk in the middle of the
day, I don't I'm not able to doit every day, but having an
accountability partner to do itand also there's just these
things like habits build on eachother, right.
So what I have found is thatwhen I do it, I get that
(27:11):
positive feedback loop.
I see the clarity, I feelbetter, and then it motivates me
to do it again later, and so Ithink that that has been a piece
.
I think another piece isleaning on my co-founder.
I'm lucky to have a reallystrong relationship with my
co-founder.
One of the things that we did weparticipate in this program
called Tech Stars and they takeyou through this like
(27:37):
personality assessment, wherethey map out your stress
behaviors and so, based on yourpersonality, what do you tend to
do when you're stressed?
Turns out, we have differentstress behaviors and they're
basically opposite, and so itwas super, super helpful to say
to both ourselves and each otherwhen I am getting activated and
to a point of stress, this iswhat that looks like, and so we
(27:57):
can wave a flag to each other.
I also said it to my husband andmy sister and my mom the people
I talk to all the time Likethis is what I learned about my
stress behaviors, this is whatyou might notice, this is what
you might notice, and we'veasked all of our team to take
the same assessment so that wecan all come from a place of
grace and awareness like, hey,I'm noticing X, y, z, that might
(28:18):
mean you're stressed, right.
And so I think that buildingthat awareness and then
articulating it can be reallypowerful.
But I mean, I would say overthe last couple of years, every
six months, my non-negotiableskind of change in terms of what
the business needs, what myfamily needs, what I need and
(28:40):
what is pulling hardest, I thinkfor me, the heart of resilience
for me is feeling in choice, isreally feeling like, yeah, I
don't have a big social liferight now, that's my choice.
I am focused on work and I'mfocused on my kids, and that is
this season for me and that's mychoice.
(29:01):
And so I think that groundingin that has been a helpful tool
for me.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I love that, taking the guilt out of like what
you're not doing right thosenegative, negative choices.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, and I think it's important.
So, like the difference betweenguilt and shame, I think is
really important in theconversation around burnout.
So when you talk about guilt,it is I feel like I did
something wrong.
I feel like I'm supposed to bedoing this and instead I'm doing
this.
Shame is I did something wrongand therefore I am wrong, or I
(29:39):
did something bad, therefore Iam bad, and shame is a very
powerful emotion.
What we find in the group kindof peer setting that we have
here at Keep Company is thatpeople will really stay in shame
when they feel alone in anexperience.
Does they feel like they're theonly one that's having a hard
time with something?
It can really bring a ton ofshame and that really creates
(30:00):
like a stuckness around you.
It's really hard to action outof shame when they realize that
like, oh, you're like me andyou're struggling and you seem
great, and you're like me andyou're struggling, you seem
great.
Well, I guess I'm not theproblem then.
So what is the problem?
They go into actioning and so Ithink, like, keeping in mind,
(30:22):
give somebody a chance to say metoo, right, give somebody a
chance to say, yeah, I'm goingthrough that too, because it can
be such a quick and powerfulway to move out of shame and
guilt that something is hard.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I love that, thank you, and I really encourage
everyone to really think about,like, what boundaries or
non-negotiables you're buildingout for this season, right and
again making that the choice,jay, I'd love to know how the
chat is going, if we have anyquestions in there.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yes, I love this one from Autumn.
She says how do you retrain thepeople around you as you go
through different seasons andneed things to operate
differently, Whether that'semployees, clients, family,
friends I think we could relateit to all those.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Oh man, it is so hard .
I think the short answer ismake it explicit, not implicit.
I think that we are oftentaught not to make people
uncomfortable.
We're taught to dance around it.
We're taught to say like well,if you can, maybe it was like
right, like you're.
Like going around and aroundbut not saying the thing, and I
(31:35):
think we leave a lot on thetable because we assume that
they're getting the message, butusually they're not right.
And so I think particularly thisis, I would say, the one thing
that I try to tell, that that Iwould say to every woman,
working woman, especially femaleleaders is make your asks
explicit, do not leave them tobe implicit.
(31:56):
And so I think for personalrelationships and professional
relationships, whatever thatlooks like, it is about saying
does this person have thecapacity to support me in this
way I mean in the context ofkind of some of the stuff we're
talking about here and thenfiguring out what your explicit
asks are.
I think you know, for me ittook time to figure out as I
(32:18):
entered the like motherhood.
It took time to figure out whoI could ask for what right Like.
That is an exercise that youhave to go through, and so
you're, there is also kind of abuilding awareness of people's
limits, like sometimes peoplewill not have the capacity to
support you in the way that youwant, and so you can make the
ask, but then you also have toaccept, at a certain point,
(32:40):
their limits, and so I thinkbeing explicit about what you
need is really important.
I would say one thing that Ithink is important to talk about
that I don't that is often nottalked about in these
conversations is your spouse,your partner, your significant
other.
I actually find that,particularly in conversations
about you know stress, themental load.
(33:02):
It's like the final frontierhard conversation to have,
because it's really hard torenegotiate those contracts
right About, like those unsaid,unspoken understandings about
how we move through our lifetogether and different seasons
require different things, and soI think renegotiating those
(33:24):
contracts is really important,but they're not going to read
our minds Right Like.
There is work to be done firstabout building awareness about
what you need because, again inthe spirit of making it explicit
, you can't make it explicit ifyou don't have awareness of what
it even is.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
That's great.
This is a great question fromErica.
She asked can you describe whatyou mean by choices in the
negative?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah.
So what I mean is you can say,let's say that you're feeling
physically tired, physically rundown, and you have an
opportunity to rest.
You might say I'm choosing notto work.
Right now I'm offering areframe, which is I am choosing
to rest because I value my workand I value continuing to do it.
(34:15):
Or I am choosing to restbecause I value listening to my
body when it sends me thismessage and I will be honoring
it.
Or I am choosing to restbecause I value modeling to my
kids that honoring theirphysical needs is worthwhile.
So it is making choices aboutwhat you are choosing, not what
(34:39):
you're not choosing.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
I love that and that kind of disrupts burnout, I feel
like, because you have thosenegative reactions and a lot of
times we're just on autopilotand then we'll just do things
that make us even more stressedout because that's what we need
to do, or what we feel like weneed to do.
So I love that.
It feels like disruptingburnout to me by making choices
(35:02):
and then when you're feelingthose negative things, yeah yeah
, I think it's certainly part ofit.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
And and and again like I to the point earlier um,
some of this is on us and someof it it's not.
There's a lot we can't control,so the goal is to build skills
in um getting better and betterat managing our energy and what
we can control, and I Icertainly think some of these,
like frames and tools, arepowerful in that.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
That's a powerful part too is just learning to let
go of control sometimes, or tothe false sense of control.
Well, I'd love to jump intojust kind of our last questions.
We have a rapid fire kind ofresource questions that we'd
like to ask you, claudia, andmaybe some of this will resonate
(35:50):
I think it's more personal toyou, but maybe some will
resonate to people here maybethat are watching this
afterwards.
So I'd love to know firstwhat's one low effort thing that
makes you feel more humanduring a busy week.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Making tea.
I'm a tea drink.
There's like a ritual.
My kids now my four-year-olddaughter's like hey, I just need
some tea.
My mom was over and she waslike what in the world is this
child talking about?
I'm like it's hot water withhoney, like it's okay, but yeah,
I think like just like the heatof it, like taking it, does
make me slow down, even if it'sjust for like three minutes.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Love it.
What's one thing you do toshift out of work mode?
At the end of the day, I feellike I struggle with that
shifting in and out of work mode.
So what's one thing that you do?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So I have started a habit, which is when I get home,
I leave my phone in my baguntil my kids are asleep.
And so I think, like not, I'mnot perfect about this.
I break it on the weekends andI have my phone around me more
than I want, but there's like aone hour period when I get home.
(37:00):
That like that critical, likeyou know.
Bedtime, bath time, like goodnight, like review the day,
homework, like that window.
I try to keep my phone in mybag and for me that has helped.
I think on the flip side, I goand buy a cup of coffee every
single day post, drop off, pregetting to the office, and it
(37:21):
for me since very early in, likemy motherhood journey, it has
been like a, like a prompt to mybrain of like we're
transitioning from this job tothis job, from this part of the
day to that part of the day.
So I actually really do believein those rituals.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah, for sure.
What's one lesson or mindsetshift that helped you step into
your role as COO?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I think.
I mean I will say I think it iscoming back to this idea that
you are one of the business'sbiggest assets.
How, what strategic choices canyou make to unlock this asset?
That, for me, was a hugemindset shift and it took it
(38:06):
took the idea of taking space tomove my body as something like
absurd and indulgent to do inthe workday into something that
was like it's just not a smartchoice for me as a leader not to
do that, because I'm going towalk into meetings with less
ideas and less clarity.
So I think that, for me, was ahuge mindset shift.
(38:26):
The theme of all of this is mycoach has really been an unlock
because she is to thank for alot of these things.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I love that Part of your toolkit right.
What's something you'veautomated or delegated recently
that made a big difference?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I mean, what do I not ?
I am a serial optimizer and Ithink Keep Company was truly
born out of the fact that Ilooked at.
I was like I have strategicframeworks in everything that I
do.
You better believe I'm applyingthat to motherhood and so I
think that is very much myfoundational approach.
(39:03):
I think to think of an example.
I mean I am leaning reallyheavily into AI and how I'm
using that.
I'll say I was using it a tonat work and then I realized I
wasn't really using it outsideof work and so I've started to
lean into it more outside ofwork and that has been
interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah definitely, definitely, a great tool that
you can use.
What's one wellness orself-care trend you actually buy
into?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Touch grass.
There's like a whole thread onTikTok about it.
I think, like I would say, thenumber one tool I have
discovered over the last coupleof years is that there's not
much wisdom in the brain, it'sall in the body.
So like anything that can getyou back into the present,
whether it's like putting coldwater on your face, like
(39:54):
touching a leaf, like trulyanything that reminds you I am
here in this, that gets you outof your head, for me, there is
nothing more powerful.
So, yes, touch grass.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I love that one.
What's a resource you wish morefounders knew about or tapped
into?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Executive coaches.
I think that people use them,but I think it's important to
like the fit piece right.
Like I think that for me, Ifound somebody that worked with
co-founders at our stage withour tech.
Like I think that piece mattersa lot so that they have the
full context of what you'renavigating.
(40:35):
I think finding resources thatcan understand you as a whole
person.
She is a woman, she is Latina,she is a like she.
She has an important contextfor me.
I think that that piece isthere's's work right in finding
resources that understand youcontextually, but I think it has
outsized impact.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Absolutely.
What's the best non-businessbook that shaped how you lead or
think as a founder.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Honestly, I do not read business books.
I read romance novels becausethat's what I'm doing right now.
I don't need to read aboutbusiness or politics.
I need to be escaping andletting my mind go into, like
happy, joyful, light, low stakesplaces.
So I actually have reallyleaned into only reading for
(41:24):
pleasure over the last couple ofmonths and and it I 10 out of
10, I'm very happy with mychoice.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I mean what?
What author are you currentlyreading?
Oh, I, don't know.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I feel like I'm.
I just finished one by thiswoman named Carly Fortune.
It was like a like my friendswere all talking about.
It was like a summer read aboutlike a lake and something like
that.
I mean, I think that it'stelling that I don't even
remember.
That's like how I consume it.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
I'm just like, oh, it's just popcorn for your brain
, like it's just levity, I loveit, and if that helps fill your
emotional runway, all for it.
Totally.
My last question, and then Idefinitely want to jump over to
any audience questions that wehave.
What's one question you wishmore founders would take the
time to ask themselves?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Who takes care of me?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Wow, so powerful.
I think yeah great way to endthat kind of question and
hopefully everyone kind ofthinks and mulls over that after
the session too.
But I'd love to jump over intoany audience questions that have
maybe popped up in the chat.
Or if you have a question thathas been burning at you, please
(42:35):
go ahead and feel free to unmuteyourself.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
I didn't necessarily have a question.
I just keep going back to thepoint that you made about
reevaluating a contract foryourself, because I feel like
I'm like this is what it is,this is what it's going to be,
this is my boundary, I'm goingto stay with that and that's
what it is, and so being able toreally process OK, there is
(42:58):
certain seasons and times andthings that shift that I will
need to reevaluate, and so Ireally didn't process it like
that, and so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, I'm glad it resonated.
I will say like it's exhausting, right To like be reevaluating
what you need, but it's honest,like I think, like I wish we
could all find our forevertoolkit.
I think some things will beforever, but realistically, I do
think that it is like you haveto be in a constant conversation
with yourself about is thisworking for me?
So true, and thank you forsharing, tiffany, I do think
that it is like you have to bein a constant conversation with
(43:29):
yourself about is this workingfor me?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
So true?
Thank you for sharing, Tiffany.
Anyone else have any thoughtsthat?
Speaker 5 (43:40):
resonated or a question.
I have a question.
So I find and I think a lot ofus do, this is is evidence of it
that, yeah, community is a bigpart of what supports me and
helps me feel like, hey, I'm onthe right path.
All the things and and I'mtrying to do that myself for the
(44:01):
people that I want to work withsmall businesses and helping
them with marketing to do things, not by themselves, but like
get things done.
But how do you?
Because there's so much emotionwrapped up in it.
What are the impacts from abusiness standpoint?
Like when you're managingcommunities and trying to make
sure that it's fulfilling, bothemotional and honestly.
(44:21):
We, like I to your point aboutfeeling guilty about going for a
walk.
Like I feel guilty when I go doone of these things sometimes,
actually, I don't anymore, butbut like I feel guilty when I go
do one of these things.
Sometimes actually I don'tanymore, but but like I used to
a lot more because I felt like,oh, but I've got this long list
of things.
If I don't accomplish it, doyou, do you help them tie, like
maybe in that community, tie, uh, the time spent and the
(44:45):
activity, to know you'reactually checking things off the
list, or is it better to justsay no, let that go it's such a
good question.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I think, like the word that came up as you were
talking for me is discernment,which is really like building
the skill and knowing when yougot to just do the thing, even
if you don't want to do thething you got to push through
and finish the thing, and whatyou can start to change habits
and behaviors and build somespace.
And so I do think there's alevel of discernment.
And, again, I think our brainslike binary thinking.
(45:14):
They like yes, no, good, bad.
The truth is there is going tobe more in between.
And so if your kind ofpersonhood, let's call it your
non-work, non-family self, if Isaid to you, on a scale of one
to 10, how's personhood today?
And you said to me two, thequestion is not how do I get you
(45:35):
to a 10?
, the question is, how do I getyou to a three right Like, how
do we make those incrementalchanges that over time can be
impactful?
But in terms of theorganization, yes, I mean we
spend a huge amount of time andresources measuring the impact
of this, and I would say it's acouple of different things.
One is we see that having theright support systems in place
(45:59):
drives retention.
So our members, the employeesthat sign up for Keep Company,
tend to resign at a rate threetimes less than people that
don't in their industry, and sothe impact of like again, like
that, sustainability is reallypowerful.
What we find, though and this is, like I would say, like a core
part of our thesis is that theskills that you build
(46:22):
relationally will make youstronger at work.
If you learn how to listen, youwill be better with your
clients.
I promise you that, if youlearn critical thinking and how
to read emotional cues, thatwill make you more effective in
how you manage yourself and howyou manage others.
There's so much data about howleaders that have and exhibit
(46:43):
signs and skills ofself-awareness show up as
stronger managers and asstronger leaders show up as
stronger managers and asstronger leaders, so I think
there's a skills piece to this,which are what are the emotional
skills that you need to have inyour toolkit?
I think when I started my career, it was like you're a good
manager or you're a bad manager.
That was like the language.
We didn't have a level ofgranularity or specificity.
(47:07):
It wasn't.
You are.
Your team is ineffectivebecause you are a poor
communicator and you'recommunicating from a place of
dysregulation and a lack ofspecificity.
So when you're frustrated,people are getting emotional
data from you.
They have no idea what you wantthem to do differently.
Right, we need to get to aplace, I think in organizations,
(47:28):
where we can speak with moregranularity about lack of skill,
and I think people learningthese skills and practicing them
is an important part of that.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
Gloria, I have.
I have a question.
You talked about the importanceof family dynamics and spouses
and stuff, and then you alsotalked about loneliness being
one of the most criticalchallenges that we're facing as
humans.
How do we, how can we support,like our kids and our families
(48:00):
in developing those connectionsBecause we also take care of
them Model it?
Speaker 2 (48:08):
which is the hardest thing to do.
It's like the ultimate, likeput the oxygen mask on yourself.
But I do think there is.
I think I remember somebodysaid to me a couple of years ago
that they wanted to model totheir kids that they choose work
.
They didn't want to uselanguage that was like, oh, I
(48:29):
have to go to work.
They wanted to say like Ichoose work.
They didn't want to uselanguage that was like, oh, I
have to go to work.
They wanted to say, like Ichoose work because it fills me
and I get the opportunity towork in a field that I enjoy.
And so, like they really triedto reframe the language they
used around work.
And that really resonated withme.
And so I think, even like myhusband and I have like a date
night on Wednesday nights, welike pre-booked the babysitter.
(48:51):
It is a ritual we have doneforever.
And last week one of my kidswas like, oh, you guys always do
this.
And and my husband said like,to his credit, he was like I
value having one-on-one timewith mommy and that is why we're
doing this.
And so I think that, likethat's like the goal, right,
like the goal is to be able touse language that's intentional
(49:13):
and to say to them likerelationships don't just happen,
you have to invest in them.
But I think the other piece ofit is like knowing it's work,
like knowing that, like it iswork for us, like we, we are
doing some of that labor ontheir behalf and so like that
probably looks like.
I mean, I let me tell you I donot want to drive these children
(49:34):
to the number of play datesthat they are invited to or have
or want to have, but I wantthem to have these relationships
.
So it's like this constant pushand pull of like knowing
relationships require work andno matter what type of
relationship, and I think, likewhile our kids are of a certain
age, we are doing that work forthem until they can do it for
(49:57):
themselves.
So, yeah, I don't know, I don'thave, I don't know yet.
And I think that the in thecontext of social media,
obviously like not going to goon that whole tangent right now,
but what is meaningful humanconnection is up for debate
right now, and so I think thathow we talk to our kids about
that matters a ton, especiallywhen so few of us have it
(50:19):
figured out for ourselves, right.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
What a great question , very timely.
I was just seeing a post aboutjust like.
My kids don't know the amountof work I put in as an introvert
for them, so thank you, thankyou so much, and great question,
erica.
Anyone else have any lastthoughts?
Questions Autumn yeah, go forit.
Speaker 7 (50:42):
I would love to.
So one challenge I have.
So I have a 13-year old and Ifind that by the time I get to
her after school, my emotionalrunway is already spent for that
day.
And then a lot of times shelikes to um do what teenagers do
, and so I'm curious if thereare any strategies um, you know,
(51:04):
as you're balancing being afounder and being a mom, um that
really work to make sure thatyou're protecting that emotional
runway time for your family andnot giving it all away at work.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Oh my gosh, it is so hard and I do think it is quite
a reckoning when we have thosemoments which, like I have
certainly had and I think mostpeople have had which is, I use
the best of me at work, the highenergy, the like.
Let you like I bring the bestof me to work.
(51:37):
And that is a hard thing tolike look in the face, and
sometimes it's a necessity andsometimes it's a choice, and so
I think that I mean my instinctthere I don't, again, I don't
have a perfect answer I think myinstinct is to kind of sit with
yourself about what matters themost to you in those moments
and those interactions.
So is it that you have a littlebit more of a boundary so that
(51:59):
you can protect 15 minutes tolike come back to baseline,
whatever that looks like for youbefore that interaction?
Or is it that, back to theoutsourcing conversation Maybe
you do pick up two days a weekand you renegotiate the terms of
somebody else can do pickup, sothat you are like kind of
changed?
So I would say like rethink itall, rethink the structure right
(52:21):
and figure out what works foryou.
Like I know, like some peopleyou know, are you the drop-off
parent?
Are you the pickup parent?
How do, how do you guardrailthose interactions so that they
don't just work for them, theywork for you too.
And there's a lot in therethat's indulgent, right, like,
like the assumption even that,like you can choose.
But where you can choose, I dothink there's an opportunity to
(52:43):
say how do I make theseinteractions work better for me
so that I can show up in a waythat feels good to me?
And there's room there right toredesign, knowing again there's
a lot we can't control,including the mood of our
children, certainly.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Great, great question , and I think, too, part of it
goes back to like we are morethan just the founder, so being
able to have these conversations, we're more than just the
founder, we're more than justthe mom, we're more than just
the caretaker.
So all of these differentaspects really depend on each
other.
If you enjoyed this episode,share it with a friend and don't
(53:23):
forget to leave us a review.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
consider joining our communityof powerful women eager to help
you get there and stay there.
To learn more, go towwwbestherco.
When founders talk about building a company, the
conversation almost always comesback to one thing Runway.
How long can the business keepgoing before the money runs out?
But there's another kind ofrunway we don't talk about
nearly enough the emotionalrunway.
Because, let's be honest, it'snot just the bank account that
keeps a company alive.
(00:21):
It's the founder's energy,resilience and ability to keep
showing up every day.
And when that emotional runwayruns out, companies can break
apart, even if the financialslook strong.
That's exactly what we'redigging into today.
How do you protect yourwell-being when the weight of
the business is on yourshoulders?
(00:41):
How do you keep leading whenstepping back doesn't feel like
an option?
Hey everyone, I'm GabbyEichenlaub, coo at Vest and your
host for today.
In this episode, I'm joined byClaudia Naeem Burt, co-founder
and COO of Keep Company, apatented group learning platform
built on real human connection.
(01:02):
Keep Company has closed over $3million in venture capital
financing, making Claudia one ofonly 250 Latinas to raise over
$1 million in venture capital.
Together, we'll explore how torecognize burnout before it
derails you, what it means tobuild a business that supports
(01:22):
your life, not consumes it, andpractical ways to extend your
emotional runway, even duringthe busiest seasons.
For our guest's full bio andshow notes go to wwwvestherco
forward slash podcast.
And if you enjoyed the episode,don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and leave us areview.
Tell us what wasn't in the bioand where the term emotional
(01:45):
runway came from.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, not in the bio mom of two boys, I have a
four-year-old and aseven-year-old.
So reverence, empathy,camaraderie for everybody
navigating back to school,mental load, chaos, and
originally from Venezuela andhave been in back and forth
between Venezuela and the DCarea always.
(02:09):
So emotional runway.
One of the things I am, youknow, a mom, a caregiver, a
founder, a manager, a sister,right, All of these things and
one of the things that I startedto feel was I didn't have the
words for it, but my emotionalrunway going down and what I
(02:31):
started to do was I have toolsin my toolkit, and so I have a
therapist, I have friends, Italk to my sister all day long,
right, so, like, I haveself-awareness, but what I found
was it wasn't enough and so Ineeded a new tool.
So I started working with anexecutive coach who is
phenomenal and works withfounders specifically, so she
(02:52):
really understands, like, thepace and the challenges of the
stage that I'm building at, andshe introduced me to this term,
emotional runway, which is, asbusiness owners, as leaders,
whether you're managing abusiness unit or a function or a
business entirely.
We talk a lot about runwayright or burn rate.
(03:14):
Like how many if you did notmake a single dollar more
revenue.
Or if you hit your goals, howmany months of runway does the
business have to operate on?
And they're always thinkingabout cost benefit through that
lens.
And she said there is such athing that's financial runway,
right, there is such a thing.
And just to ground, I think oneof the goals with that term is
(03:37):
to provide that forwardperspective so that you can make
more strategic choices today,so that you can say, okay, if my
burn rate is three months, thenI have different choices that
I'm going to be making than ifmy burn rate is 12 months, Right
.
And so she said you need to.
She was like she said I hearyou thinking about your, your
run rate, your burn rate, your,you know, you know your runway
(04:01):
financially, but you need to bethinking about it emotionally
too.
This is an emotional game asmuch as it is an intellectual
one, and so she really one ofthe things that she did was have
me do like an energy audit.
So what are the things thatgive you energy and what are the
things that don't?
Over the course of your day,both work and family and self.
And very quickly, certainthings came to the surface, of
(04:23):
things that drain my energy andthings that give me energy.
And so she said you know,investing in things that give
you energy is extending youremotional runway, In other words
, how long you can run at thispace or in this way, in this way
.
And so what it allowed me to dowas to make more strategic
(04:44):
choices about what I did.
So if I, you know, we're alwaystalking about boundaries, we
know that that is a huge skillwe all have to build to have
more sustainability in ourcareers and in our lives, what
it allowed me to do is itempowered me to actually set
those boundaries.
It gave me like almost arational reasoning behind it.
So if I knew that somebody hadasked me to book the fifth
(05:06):
meeting of my afternoon, but Iknew that that would decrease my
emotional runway for the daybefore I have a really important
call, then I will feel moreempowered to say no.
The other thing that came to thesurface was the single biggest
source of energy for me was timealone, specifically time moving
(05:30):
.
So what I found was, when I dida long walk by myself for one
hour if I crossed that 30-minutemark I started to feel like
ideas, creativity, I feltlighter, I felt more perspective
.
And so she said okay, if youare one of Keep Company's
greatest assets and this issomething that unlocks taking a
(05:51):
one hour walk every day, this issomething that unlocks this key
asset for Keep Company KeepLemonade is my business Then we
need to figure out how to makeyour one hour happen every
single day.
And I looked at her like shehad seven heads.
I was like impossible.
Like are you?
Like haven't I told you what mylife looks like?
I don't want to take it awayfrom time with my kids, but it
(06:12):
certainly came out of theworkday.
So I'm like stuck between arock and a hard place.
And she said if we just look atthis strategically and we're
trying to unlock you as an asset, Our goal is to prolong your
emotional runway so you don'tburn out in three months, you
burn out in 18 months, and atthat point you've changed enough
things that you're not going inthat direction.
Right, and so that's theconcept of emotional runway.
(06:35):
I think similarly, like that isa micro of a choice you can make
over the course of a day, but Ithink big ones are hiring.
Nothing will reduce myemotional runway more than
somebody underperforming.
So if every day I am not.
I and we know these choices arereally hard.
People say you know, hire slowand fire fast.
(06:56):
In practice, when you'restretched thin and have limited
resources, that's really hard todo.
But I think seeing how muchhaving to course correct an
underperformer reduces mybandwidth and emotional runway
and how long I can run is verymotivating to make some kind of
hard but strategic decisionsthat are ultimately best for me
(07:19):
as a resource.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Wow, I love so much that you said and I think one
thing that I got away from it,too, is that burnout to me feels
like very present, like in thepresent moment and runway the
emotional runway aspect is it'salmost like you can be proactive
about something and we're soexcited to have you here to talk
(07:41):
about this.
As I mentioned, we have foundersat different stages, we have
professionals in differentcareers and stages as well, and
a lot of the times founders orprofessionals maybe sometimes
have to wear a lot of hats and Ithink a lot of the times it's
encouraged to just keep pushingthrough and ignore how you're
really doing.
(08:02):
Then sometimes you also have,like this mission to your work
that feels so critical, whetherit's like a social component, a
personal tie, or just even thefact that, like you, are the one
putting food on your plate orfor other people as well, right,
so sometimes taking a second tostep back feels like I just
can't do that, right.
(08:22):
But your work with Keep Companyreminds us that burnout doesn't
just impact our energy.
It affects how we show up asleaders and how we make
decisions and how we even feelconnected to our work or the
people around us.
So I love what you are sayingand I think I'd love to know
just how do you check in withyourself to really assess how
(08:44):
you're actually doing.
I feel like that's somethingthat gets thrown around, but how
do you put that into practice?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, I think that, first of all, I think when we
talk about burnout or well-being, or even on the more clinical
mental health side of depressionand clinical anxiety and these
kinds of things, I think that wetalk about it as a binary
You're burnt out or you're not,you're depressed or you're not,
you're well or you're not and Ithink, realistically, we need to
(09:12):
be talking about it as a fullspectrum and so, realistically,
what we're not trying to do isflip a switch.
You're burned out.
I'm going to do these seventhings and it'll be great.
In four weeks you won't beburned out.
That is not how humans work and, of course, our brains.
It's very attractive, right,like do these things and then
(09:32):
it'll be.
This won't be a problem.
But we are kind of like living,breathing things that are
constantly changing.
Our environment is constantlychanging.
There's only so much that wecan control, so we will always
be living somewhere on thespectrum.
And I think that one of thereasons why so much content and
services and things aboutburnout, why it often sounds
(09:55):
like trite and cheesy and nothelpful, is because the hard
truth is you have to get to knowyourself and figure out what
that looks like for you, and soif you are reading somebody
else's playbook, I don't knowhow hopeful it'll be.
If you get lucky and they havea temperament and a personality
and habits and challenges andassets similar to you, awesome,
(10:16):
copy their playbook.
That is not really realistic.
So I do think there is a lot ofwork of introspection and
self-awareness building tounderstand what that looks like,
and there are lots of tools tobe able to do that.
Certainly, reading is one ofthem looking at frameworks,
seeing what resonates with you.
There is everything I meanthere is therapy, there is
(10:38):
coaching, there are peerexperiences.
We always say that when peopleare struggling, their options
are phone, a friend, so like acompletely unstructured social
environment where they mighthave bandwidth and skill to
support you or not, orone-on-one clinical therapy.
Right, we need to be buildingtools in the toolkit across that
whole spectrum, and so I thinkabout it often, as there are
(11:02):
tools like StrengthsFinders andIMAP and personality tests that
sometimes are helpful inassessing like, not just, are
you an introvert or are you anextrovert, and how does that
insight into yourself, how doesthat inform your decision making
?
I remember my brother was thisis like a long time ago.
He was working in banking andhe is super, super extroverted.
(11:26):
He gets a ton of energy fromother people and he was like 22.
And I'm very introverted.
I recharge alone.
And I remember he called me.
He's like I've been working for24 hours or something crazy.
I'm like go home, eat, sleep.
And he was like are you kiddingme?
I have to go be around peoplebecause that's how I'm going to
recover my baseline and that'slike the ultimate example, right
(11:50):
, like these two extremes.
But I think for me, a lot ofthat awareness honestly came in
living through a postpartumduring the pandemic.
So I had my first child.
My first child is seven, almosteight.
My second child I found out Iwas pregnant with him the first
day of lockdown, and so Iexperienced a very extreme
(12:12):
version, like so many of us didright, of motherhood and
caregiving and working andactive mothering while you know.
And so I think I saw, I saw alot was going around at the time
in 2020, in the kind ofmaternity space, maternal
well-being space, about rage,about maternal rage and what
(12:34):
that looks like the clinicalcomponents, the non-clinical
components and I remembersomebody said rage in mothers is
often the engine light going on, so when your car is like I'm
empty.
Right the, a red light comes onrage.
Often is that engine lightsaying I'm empty, and so I think
it is a way for me.
(12:55):
It's a really powerful metaphor, for how can you figure out
what those lights and warningsignals are for you?
Um and again, I'm happy toshare what they are for me, but
the truth is that, um, there,that is a.
That is work that introspectionrequires.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
No, I love that and I think that having that toolkit
component is so importantbecause it is like you said,
it's not a one size fits all,it's not like this is the magic
answer.
It's really having, whetherit's other people, whether it's
you know, introspection,whatever it is for you, having
being able to go to two or threedifferent things that may work
(13:35):
for you, I think is superimportant.
I'd love to know too youmentioned you know kind of your
postpartum as well, and I'm sure, through building a company or
even professional life, there'sso many different seasons that
we go through and I'd love toknow just your thoughts on how
can founders distinguish between, like a tough season, something
(13:56):
that's you know something quickor short, or that you kind of
get through to something moreserious, like burnout?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's a good question.
I think that there are clinicalmarkers.
I think, like we at KeepCompany, a lot of what we do in
this peer support space, so wecreate groups where we find
peers like you and your industry.
So what that often looks likeis other women at your seniority
level, or other people caringfor a parent with dementia,
(14:22):
other dads who are also at thisseniority level and caring for
adolescent kids, right.
So whatever that looks like foryou because what we have found
is that it is the greatestantidote to burnout is actually
connection.
Feeling like you are the onlyone navigating something is the
greatest accelerant of burnoutthat I have been able to
(14:44):
identify.
And what we found was when wewere starting.
For us, it began with theexperience of motherhood and
then expanded into fatherhoodand caregiving and now all
employee experiences, which isyou know, what we heard over and
over again is it feels like I'mthe only one.
I'm the only one who can't hackit.
I'm the only one who doesn'thave this figured out.
(15:05):
I'm the only one who can'tjuggle the balls.
I'm the only one who doesn'tpost pretty pictures on
Instagram.
I'm the only one who can'tjuggle the balls.
I'm the only one who doesn'tpost pretty pictures on
Instagram.
I'm the only one who doesn'thave this big career.
I'm the only fill in the blank,and it's a very bizarre thing
to be on the other side ofeverybody telling you they feel
like the only one, and so Ireally believe strongly that
finding people like you is thegreatest antidote to burnout.
(15:30):
I think that it's worth notinglike we are living in a time of
loneliness.
I think most people feelloneliness in one way shape or
form.
A lot of the mechanisms fororganic connection that we had
in life and at work are gone.
They have been redesigned andwe have a ton of flexibility
because of that.
We have a ton of access, butthere is a cost and it is human
(15:53):
connection, and so I think forpeople that work only remotely,
that can be a challenge.
I think, like you're not goingto run into somebody at the
grocery store, you might just doInstacart.
You're not going to ask yourfriend to give you a ride,
you're going to grab Uber right.
Like there are all of theseoptimizations that we've done
over the course of the last fiveyears in particular that have
little by little removed thesesmall ways that we connect with
(16:17):
other human beings and I thinkthat that can sound really
superficial but it is truly acore human need and I think,
cumulatively, people don't startto realize that that's what
they're feeling.
And so you know, you might notsay I'm lonely, but you might
say I feel numb, I feeldisconnected, I feel disengaged,
I feel isolated.
(16:39):
But I think on a fundamentallevel, what many of us are
experiencing is loneliness, andthere's so much data I mean the
former Surgeon General, theparting prescription was about
loneliness and the lonelinessepidemic and the impact that
that is taking.
I mean, particularly when youthink about elder care, the data
(16:59):
says that acute and chronicloneliness is the equivalent of
smoking an entire pack ofcigarettes every single day.
So like it has huge impacts toour physical health, not just
our emotional health.
So I think when you look at thetools in the toolkit, different
types of human connection haveto be part of it, no matter
(17:22):
where that is for you.
But I think a core distinctionon the clinical side of like
that line with burnout is thenumbness I was talking about.
So feeling numb, feeling likeyou just don't, can't care, you
just don't have enough energyeven to care, I think
self-isolating for a lot ofpeople can come with burnout.
(17:43):
I think this is particularlytrue with women.
Like your body will startletting you know, so things will
start feeling off, and if youdon't listen to the early
warning signals of your body,you will get bigger signals.
So I do think that,particularly with women, you
start to see a lot of physicalmanifestations as well that are
(18:06):
the cumulative impact of stress.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I definitely saw a lot of head nodding going
on in the in the group, so Ithink a lot of what you're
saying is definitely resonating.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, I think there's also a theme that I'm hearing
in in the chat which is notworking or taking a break or
resting or encouraging your teamto rest.
Somebody was talking about that.
I think those feel like choicesin the negative.
They feel like I am choosingnot to work and that actually
(18:39):
like tricks your brain intogoing into a guilt shame loop,
and so what you want to do istry to trick your brain to do
the opposite.
There is a kind of tool incognitive behavioral therapy
which really focuses on likedissecting our thoughts and
patterns there.
And one thing, one tool thatI've taken from cognitive
(19:03):
behavioral therapy that hasentered this space of like
cognitive behavioral coaching,which I think is really powerful
, is just asking yourself whatdo I value, what matters to me?
And so I'll bring this to lifewith an example I think about
often because I think a lot ofpeople can resonate with it.
So I had had my first child.
(19:24):
I was having a lot of anxietyabout leaving him after I went
back to work.
I had to travel for work at thetime and I had to go to New
York.
I'm in at the time and I had togo to New York.
I'm in DC.
I had to go to New Yorkregularly and I remember feeling
a little bit panicked, liketrue, like physical panic, about
the idea of being in adifferent city from him, even if
it was for 24 hours.
And I remember some somebodysaying to me don't focus on the
(19:47):
fact that you're not going to bewith him.
Focus on what you value and whythose values are driving you to
make these decisions.
And so, for me, what thatsounded like just to bring the
example to life is I value mywork.
I value the space and skillsand means that it gives me.
I value showing up for my team.
(20:08):
I value giving my husband spaceto build his skills with the
child and his bond with thechild.
I value having three hours onthe train where nobody can touch
me right, and that reallyreframes the experience of these
emotions to one of saying I'mchoosing this right, like I am
(20:30):
choosing to value these things,and so for your team that might
be.
If you value the sustainabilityof this work, you need to rest,
because you value being able todo this for more than three
more months, and for yourself.
Similarly, you know somebodysaid how can I show up if I
(20:51):
don't want to.
I think that this exerciseapplies there too.
You're showing up because thereis something you value there,
which of whether it's being ableto have the financial means to
make other decisions, whether itis finishing a project that you
started because you have avalue of accountability and
ownership, whether it is thepeople that you serve because
(21:13):
you have a value of somethingrelated to the mission.
I think that reframe can bereally powerful in making you
feel like you have agency andlike you are in choice, because,
I mean, there's so much thatall of us are not in choice
about, especially right nowwhere we have like 20 macro
crises everywhere you look right.
(21:33):
I think it can be reallyoverwhelming.
And so, focusing on your valuesand how they're informing your
choices, I heard somebody say Ithink this is not quite right,
but there is something to itwhich is.
I heard somebody say burnout isjust living out of alignment
with your values.
I don't know that it's thatsimple, right.
(21:54):
I think sometimes it'sexhaustion or all these other
things, but there is somethingto values when you're thinking
about being in choice.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Thank you.
Thank you for your, for yourinsight on that.
I think that really goes intokind of this next portion of
questions too, where one of thethings that really resonated
with the founders as we werebuilding out this session was
talking about how to managestress or burnout or, you know,
build out your emotional runwaywhen you feel like you can't
(22:25):
afford to slow down.
The business has to keep moving, whether you're building it or
whether you're in it as aprofessional.
So I'd love to know kind ofwhat it means to manage all that
while you're in the middle, andthat idea of really, you know,
shaping out and saying the ideathat burnout it's not just
personal, it's also structuralin the way we built our
(22:54):
businesses, and you mentionedthat earlier.
How can we as founders or asprofessionals, sometimes C-suite
executives to really rethinkthe systems that we build around
ourselves, whether that'sroutines, relationships, support
?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
that's routines, relationships, support and our
teams.
I think the heart of why thisis such a hard question is
because it changes.
It's a moving target.
So like in the same way that Ihate the word balance, because I
think work-life balance is amirage it assumes that we have
two stagnant parts of ourselvesthat are not pushing and pulling
and that once you got it, yougot it right Versus, really it
is.
This thing is changing andsometimes it pulls harder, and
(23:36):
this thing is changing andsometimes it pulls harder.
And then you're in thisconstant kind of tug of war
between these different parts ofwho you are and your life and
your identity and, from myperspective, your emotional
skills, your self-awareness.
That is strengthening your coreso that when you get yanked
this way by work or yanked thisway by your mother-in-law or
(23:58):
yanked this way by school, youcan come back to center.
So I think, like what makesthat so challenging and I'm
feeling this now is, as you'rein different seasons, what that
looks like will change, and soright now I'm really
reevaluating my kind of supportsystems.
But at Keep Company, I thinkwhat we've come back to is it is
(24:20):
about connection to self, howmuch self-awareness you have
about what is the engine lightfor you, and have you been able
to articulate the things thatgive you energy or bring you
back to baseline?
One nudge I would make there is, like, put it on a post-it note
and put it by your computer oryour desk the five people that
(24:41):
you can call that will give youenergy, or the five things that
you can do that will give youenergy and bring you back to
baseline.
Because I think when you'relike really in it, it can be
hard to remember oh, I havethese tools, oh I have these
people, I have these things thatactually help.
And so I think that it isconnection to self, and then
connection to others, and thatlooks like the relationships you
(25:03):
have both at work and at homeand how you lean on them and
what that looks like.
And then the last piece isconnection to the systems around
you.
We are an employee benefit, sothe system we often think about
is the organization, and thereis a huge amount of tension in
if you feel like your values arenot in alignment with the
(25:24):
values of an organization, theorganization you work for that
can really reduce your emotionalrunway, right, like, and that
makes sense.
And so at that point you comeback to like well,
self-awareness, right, like whatdo I need to be in alignment
with our values, what'simportant to me right now?
And the answer is allowed to beMonday, today and next year,
(25:45):
it's allowed to be time to rest.
And then the year after, it'sallowed to be like you are
allowed to renegotiate thecontract you have with yourself
about what matters, right.
And I think that, particularlyas women, we will have many
seasons of care, we will havemany seasons of career.
It is not linear, and I thinkthat, as the workforce evolves,
(26:05):
that's just more and more true,and so many industries are being
like, really fundamentallyredesigned right now more true
when so many industries arebeing like really fundamentally
redesigned right now.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I love that.
I love being able torenegotiate with yourselves.
You don't have to stay whereyou were at one year ago, and
it's not a failure if you decidethat that's not what you need
today.
So thank you for that importantreminder.
I have a quick question andthen we are going to see what's
going on in the chat.
But you know, as founders, it'seasy to build a business or,
(26:39):
again, a career that looks goodon paper but it doesn't actually
support the kind of life youactually want to live.
So I'd love to know from youwhat boundaries or
non-negotiables have been maybethe hardest to protect but have
made the biggest difference foryour well-being.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
The walk.
I'll tell you, like that, onehour walk in the middle of the
day, I don't I'm not able to doit every day, but having an
accountability partner to do itand also there's just these
things like habits build on eachother, right.
So what I have found is thatwhen I do it, I get that
(27:11):
positive feedback loop.
I see the clarity, I feelbetter, and then it motivates me
to do it again later, and so Ithink that that has been a piece
.
I think another piece isleaning on my co-founder.
I'm lucky to have a reallystrong relationship with my
co-founder.
One of the things that we did weparticipate in this program
called Tech Stars and they takeyou through this like
(27:37):
personality assessment, wherethey map out your stress
behaviors and so, based on yourpersonality, what do you tend to
do when you're stressed?
Turns out, we have differentstress behaviors and they're
basically opposite, and so itwas super, super helpful to say
to both ourselves and each otherwhen I am getting activated and
to a point of stress, this iswhat that looks like, and so we
(27:57):
can wave a flag to each other.
I also said it to my husband andmy sister and my mom the people
I talk to all the time Likethis is what I learned about my
stress behaviors, this is whatyou might notice, this is what
you might notice, and we'veasked all of our team to take
the same assessment so that wecan all come from a place of
grace and awareness like, hey,I'm noticing X, y, z, that might
(28:18):
mean you're stressed, right.
And so I think that buildingthat awareness and then
articulating it can be reallypowerful.
But I mean, I would say overthe last couple of years, every
six months, my non-negotiableskind of change in terms of what
the business needs, what myfamily needs, what I need and
(28:40):
what is pulling hardest, I thinkfor me, the heart of resilience
for me is feeling in choice, isreally feeling like, yeah, I
don't have a big social liferight now, that's my choice.
I am focused on work and I'mfocused on my kids, and that is
this season for me and that's mychoice.
(29:01):
And so I think that groundingin that has been a helpful tool
for me.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I love that, taking the guilt out of like what
you're not doing right thosenegative, negative choices.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, and I think it's important.
So, like the difference betweenguilt and shame, I think is
really important in theconversation around burnout.
So when you talk about guilt,it is I feel like I did
something wrong.
I feel like I'm supposed to bedoing this and instead I'm doing
this.
Shame is I did something wrongand therefore I am wrong, or I
(29:39):
did something bad, therefore Iam bad, and shame is a very
powerful emotion.
What we find in the group kindof peer setting that we have
here at Keep Company is thatpeople will really stay in shame
when they feel alone in anexperience.
Does they feel like they're theonly one that's having a hard
time with something?
It can really bring a ton ofshame and that really creates
(30:00):
like a stuckness around you.
It's really hard to action outof shame when they realize that
like, oh, you're like me andyou're struggling and you seem
great, and you're like me andyou're struggling, you seem
great.
Well, I guess I'm not theproblem then.
So what is the problem?
They go into actioning and so Ithink, like, keeping in mind,
(30:22):
give somebody a chance to say metoo, right, give somebody a
chance to say, yeah, I'm goingthrough that too, because it can
be such a quick and powerfulway to move out of shame and
guilt that something is hard.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I love that, thank you, and I really encourage
everyone to really think about,like, what boundaries or
non-negotiables you're buildingout for this season, right and
again making that the choice,jay, I'd love to know how the
chat is going, if we have anyquestions in there.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yes, I love this one from Autumn.
She says how do you retrain thepeople around you as you go
through different seasons andneed things to operate
differently, Whether that'semployees, clients, family,
friends I think we could relateit to all those.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Oh man, it is so hard .
I think the short answer ismake it explicit, not implicit.
I think that we are oftentaught not to make people
uncomfortable.
We're taught to dance around it.
We're taught to say like well,if you can, maybe it was like
right, like you're.
Like going around and aroundbut not saying the thing, and I
(31:35):
think we leave a lot on thetable because we assume that
they're getting the message, butusually they're not right.
And so I think particularly thisis, I would say, the one thing
that I try to tell, that that Iwould say to every woman,
working woman, especially femaleleaders is make your asks
explicit, do not leave them tobe implicit.
(31:56):
And so I think for personalrelationships and professional
relationships, whatever thatlooks like, it is about saying
does this person have thecapacity to support me in this
way I mean in the context ofkind of some of the stuff we're
talking about here and thenfiguring out what your explicit
asks are.
I think you know, for me ittook time to figure out as I
(32:18):
entered the like motherhood.
It took time to figure out whoI could ask for what right Like.
That is an exercise that youhave to go through, and so
you're, there is also kind of abuilding awareness of people's
limits, like sometimes peoplewill not have the capacity to
support you in the way that youwant, and so you can make the
ask, but then you also have toaccept, at a certain point,
(32:40):
their limits, and so I thinkbeing explicit about what you
need is really important.
I would say one thing that Ithink is important to talk about
that I don't that is often nottalked about in these
conversations is your spouse,your partner, your significant
other.
I actually find that,particularly in conversations
about you know stress, themental load.
(33:02):
It's like the final frontierhard conversation to have,
because it's really hard torenegotiate those contracts
right About, like those unsaid,unspoken understandings about
how we move through our lifetogether and different seasons
require different things, and soI think renegotiating those
(33:24):
contracts is really important,but they're not going to read
our minds Right Like.
There is work to be done firstabout building awareness about
what you need because, again inthe spirit of making it explicit
, you can't make it explicit ifyou don't have awareness of what
it even is.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
That's great.
This is a great question fromErica.
She asked can you describe whatyou mean by choices in the
negative?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah.
So what I mean is you can say,let's say that you're feeling
physically tired, physically rundown, and you have an
opportunity to rest.
You might say I'm choosing notto work.
Right now I'm offering areframe, which is I am choosing
to rest because I value my workand I value continuing to do it.
(34:15):
Or I am choosing to restbecause I value listening to my
body when it sends me thismessage and I will be honoring
it.
Or I am choosing to restbecause I value modeling to my
kids that honoring theirphysical needs is worthwhile.
So it is making choices aboutwhat you are choosing, not what
(34:39):
you're not choosing.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
I love that and that kind of disrupts burnout, I feel
like, because you have thosenegative reactions and a lot of
times we're just on autopilotand then we'll just do things
that make us even more stressedout because that's what we need
to do, or what we feel like weneed to do.
So I love that.
It feels like disruptingburnout to me by making choices
(35:02):
and then when you're feelingthose negative things, yeah yeah
, I think it's certainly part ofit.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
And and and again like I to the point earlier um,
some of this is on us and someof it it's not.
There's a lot we can't control,so the goal is to build skills
in um getting better and betterat managing our energy and what
we can control, and I Icertainly think some of these,
like frames and tools, arepowerful in that.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
That's a powerful part too is just learning to let
go of control sometimes, or tothe false sense of control.
Well, I'd love to jump intojust kind of our last questions.
We have a rapid fire kind ofresource questions that we'd
like to ask you, claudia, andmaybe some of this will resonate
(35:50):
I think it's more personal toyou, but maybe some will
resonate to people here maybethat are watching this
afterwards.
So I'd love to know firstwhat's one low effort thing that
makes you feel more humanduring a busy week.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Making tea.
I'm a tea drink.
There's like a ritual.
My kids now my four-year-olddaughter's like hey, I just need
some tea.
My mom was over and she waslike what in the world is this
child talking about?
I'm like it's hot water withhoney, like it's okay, but yeah,
I think like just like the heatof it, like taking it, does
make me slow down, even if it'sjust for like three minutes.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Love it.
What's one thing you do toshift out of work mode?
At the end of the day, I feellike I struggle with that
shifting in and out of work mode.
So what's one thing that you do?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So I have started a habit, which is when I get home,
I leave my phone in my baguntil my kids are asleep.
And so I think, like not, I'mnot perfect about this.
I break it on the weekends andI have my phone around me more
than I want, but there's like aone hour period when I get home.
(37:00):
That like that critical, likeyou know.
Bedtime, bath time, like goodnight, like review the day,
homework, like that window.
I try to keep my phone in mybag and for me that has helped.
I think on the flip side, I goand buy a cup of coffee every
single day post, drop off, pregetting to the office, and it
(37:21):
for me since very early in, likemy motherhood journey, it has
been like a, like a prompt to mybrain of like we're
transitioning from this job tothis job, from this part of the
day to that part of the day.
So I actually really do believein those rituals.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah, for sure.
What's one lesson or mindsetshift that helped you step into
your role as COO?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I think.
I mean I will say I think it iscoming back to this idea that
you are one of the business'sbiggest assets.
How, what strategic choices canyou make to unlock this asset?
That, for me, was a hugemindset shift and it took it
(38:06):
took the idea of taking space tomove my body as something like
absurd and indulgent to do inthe workday into something that
was like it's just not a smartchoice for me as a leader not to
do that, because I'm going towalk into meetings with less
ideas and less clarity.
So I think that, for me, was ahuge mindset shift.
(38:26):
The theme of all of this is mycoach has really been an unlock
because she is to thank for alot of these things.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I love that Part of your toolkit right.
What's something you'veautomated or delegated recently
that made a big difference?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I mean, what do I not ?
I am a serial optimizer and Ithink Keep Company was truly
born out of the fact that Ilooked at.
I was like I have strategicframeworks in everything that I
do.
You better believe I'm applyingthat to motherhood and so I
think that is very much myfoundational approach.
(39:03):
I think to think of an example.
I mean I am leaning reallyheavily into AI and how I'm
using that.
I'll say I was using it a tonat work and then I realized I
wasn't really using it outsideof work and so I've started to
lean into it more outside ofwork and that has been
interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah definitely, definitely, a great tool that
you can use.
What's one wellness orself-care trend you actually buy
into?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Touch grass.
There's like a whole thread onTikTok about it.
I think, like I would say, thenumber one tool I have
discovered over the last coupleof years is that there's not
much wisdom in the brain, it'sall in the body.
So like anything that can getyou back into the present,
whether it's like putting coldwater on your face, like
(39:54):
touching a leaf, like trulyanything that reminds you I am
here in this, that gets you outof your head, for me, there is
nothing more powerful.
So, yes, touch grass.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I love that one.
What's a resource you wish morefounders knew about or tapped
into?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Executive coaches.
I think that people use them,but I think it's important to
like the fit piece right.
Like I think that for me, Ifound somebody that worked with
co-founders at our stage withour tech.
Like I think that piece mattersa lot so that they have the
full context of what you'renavigating.
(40:35):
I think finding resources thatcan understand you as a whole
person.
She is a woman, she is Latina,she is a like she.
She has an important contextfor me.
I think that that piece isthere's's work right in finding
resources that understand youcontextually, but I think it has
outsized impact.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Absolutely.
What's the best non-businessbook that shaped how you lead or
think as a founder.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Honestly, I do not read business books.
I read romance novels becausethat's what I'm doing right now.
I don't need to read aboutbusiness or politics.
I need to be escaping andletting my mind go into, like
happy, joyful, light, low stakesplaces.
So I actually have reallyleaned into only reading for
(41:24):
pleasure over the last couple ofmonths and and it I 10 out of
10, I'm very happy with mychoice.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I mean what?
What author are you currentlyreading?
Oh, I, don't know.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I feel like I'm.
I just finished one by thiswoman named Carly Fortune.
It was like a like my friendswere all talking about.
It was like a summer read aboutlike a lake and something like
that.
I mean, I think that it'stelling that I don't even
remember.
That's like how I consume it.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
I'm just like, oh, it's just popcorn for your brain
, like it's just levity, I loveit, and if that helps fill your
emotional runway, all for it.
Totally.
My last question, and then Idefinitely want to jump over to
any audience questions that wehave.
What's one question you wishmore founders would take the
time to ask themselves?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Who takes care of me?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Wow, so powerful.
I think yeah great way to endthat kind of question and
hopefully everyone kind ofthinks and mulls over that after
the session too.
But I'd love to jump over intoany audience questions that have
maybe popped up in the chat.
Or if you have a question thathas been burning at you, please
(42:35):
go ahead and feel free to unmuteyourself.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
I didn't necessarily have a question.
I just keep going back to thepoint that you made about
reevaluating a contract foryourself, because I feel like
I'm like this is what it is,this is what it's going to be,
this is my boundary, I'm goingto stay with that and that's
what it is, and so being able toreally process OK, there is
(42:58):
certain seasons and times andthings that shift that I will
need to reevaluate, and so Ireally didn't process it like
that, and so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, I'm glad it resonated.
I will say like it's exhausting, right To like be reevaluating
what you need, but it's honest,like I think, like I wish we
could all find our forevertoolkit.
I think some things will beforever, but realistically, I do
think that it is like you haveto be in a constant conversation
with yourself about is thisworking for me?
So true, and thank you forsharing, tiffany, I do think
that it is like you have to bein a constant conversation with
(43:29):
yourself about is this workingfor me?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
So true?
Thank you for sharing, Tiffany.
Anyone else have any thoughtsthat?
Speaker 5 (43:40):
resonated or a question.
I have a question.
So I find and I think a lot ofus do, this is is evidence of it
that, yeah, community is a bigpart of what supports me and
helps me feel like, hey, I'm onthe right path.
All the things and and I'mtrying to do that myself for the
(44:01):
people that I want to work withsmall businesses and helping
them with marketing to do things, not by themselves, but like
get things done.
But how do you?
Because there's so much emotionwrapped up in it.
What are the impacts from abusiness standpoint?
Like when you're managingcommunities and trying to make
sure that it's fulfilling, bothemotional and honestly.
(44:21):
We, like I to your point aboutfeeling guilty about going for a
walk.
Like I feel guilty when I go doone of these things sometimes,
actually, I don't anymore, butbut like I feel guilty when I go
do one of these things.
Sometimes actually I don'tanymore, but but like I used to
a lot more because I felt like,oh, but I've got this long list
of things.
If I don't accomplish it, doyou, do you help them tie, like
maybe in that community, tie, uh, the time spent and the
(44:45):
activity, to know you'reactually checking things off the
list, or is it better to justsay no, let that go it's such a
good question.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I think, like the word that came up as you were
talking for me is discernment,which is really like building
the skill and knowing when yougot to just do the thing, even
if you don't want to do thething you got to push through
and finish the thing, and whatyou can start to change habits
and behaviors and build somespace.
And so I do think there's alevel of discernment.
And, again, I think our brainslike binary thinking.
(45:14):
They like yes, no, good, bad.
The truth is there is going tobe more in between.
And so if your kind ofpersonhood, let's call it your
non-work, non-family self, if Isaid to you, on a scale of one
to 10, how's personhood today?
And you said to me two, thequestion is not how do I get you
(45:35):
to a 10?
, the question is, how do I getyou to a three right Like, how
do we make those incrementalchanges that over time can be
impactful?
But in terms of theorganization, yes, I mean we
spend a huge amount of time andresources measuring the impact
of this, and I would say it's acouple of different things.
One is we see that having theright support systems in place
(45:59):
drives retention.
So our members, the employeesthat sign up for Keep Company,
tend to resign at a rate threetimes less than people that
don't in their industry, and sothe impact of like again, like
that, sustainability is reallypowerful.
What we find, though and this is, like I would say, like a core
part of our thesis is that theskills that you build
(46:22):
relationally will make youstronger at work.
If you learn how to listen, youwill be better with your
clients.
I promise you that, if youlearn critical thinking and how
to read emotional cues, thatwill make you more effective in
how you manage yourself and howyou manage others.
There's so much data about howleaders that have and exhibit
(46:43):
signs and skills ofself-awareness show up as
stronger managers and asstronger leaders show up as
stronger managers and asstronger leaders, so I think
there's a skills piece to this,which are what are the emotional
skills that you need to have inyour toolkit?
I think when I started my career, it was like you're a good
manager or you're a bad manager.
That was like the language.
We didn't have a level ofgranularity or specificity.
(47:07):
It wasn't.
You are.
Your team is ineffectivebecause you are a poor
communicator and you'recommunicating from a place of
dysregulation and a lack ofspecificity.
So when you're frustrated,people are getting emotional
data from you.
They have no idea what you wantthem to do differently.
Right, we need to get to aplace, I think in organizations,
(47:28):
where we can speak with moregranularity about lack of skill,
and I think people learningthese skills and practicing them
is an important part of that.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
Gloria, I have.
I have a question.
You talked about the importanceof family dynamics and spouses
and stuff, and then you alsotalked about loneliness being
one of the most criticalchallenges that we're facing as
humans.
How do we, how can we support,like our kids and our families
(48:00):
in developing those connectionsBecause we also take care of
them Model it?
Speaker 2 (48:08):
which is the hardest thing to do.
It's like the ultimate, likeput the oxygen mask on yourself.
But I do think there is.
I think I remember somebodysaid to me a couple of years ago
that they wanted to model totheir kids that they choose work
.
They didn't want to uselanguage that was like, oh, I
(48:29):
have to go to work.
They wanted to say like Ichoose work.
They didn't want to uselanguage that was like, oh, I
have to go to work.
They wanted to say, like Ichoose work because it fills me
and I get the opportunity towork in a field that I enjoy.
And so, like they really triedto reframe the language they
used around work.
And that really resonated withme.
And so I think, even like myhusband and I have like a date
night on Wednesday nights, welike pre-booked the babysitter.
(48:51):
It is a ritual we have doneforever.
And last week one of my kidswas like, oh, you guys always do
this.
And and my husband said like,to his credit, he was like I
value having one-on-one timewith mommy and that is why we're
doing this.
And so I think that, likethat's like the goal, right,
like the goal is to be able touse language that's intentional
(49:13):
and to say to them likerelationships don't just happen,
you have to invest in them.
But I think the other piece ofit is like knowing it's work,
like knowing that, like it iswork for us, like we, we are
doing some of that labor ontheir behalf and so like that
probably looks like.
I mean, I let me tell you I donot want to drive these children
(49:34):
to the number of play datesthat they are invited to or have
or want to have, but I wantthem to have these relationships
.
So it's like this constant pushand pull of like knowing
relationships require work andno matter what type of
relationship, and I think, likewhile our kids are of a certain
age, we are doing that work forthem until they can do it for
(49:57):
themselves.
So, yeah, I don't know, I don'thave, I don't know yet.
And I think that the in thecontext of social media,
obviously like not going to goon that whole tangent right now,
but what is meaningful humanconnection is up for debate
right now, and so I think thathow we talk to our kids about
that matters a ton, especiallywhen so few of us have it
(50:19):
figured out for ourselves, right.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
What a great question , very timely.
I was just seeing a post aboutjust like.
My kids don't know the amountof work I put in as an introvert
for them, so thank you, thankyou so much, and great question,
erica.
Anyone else have any lastthoughts?
Questions Autumn yeah, go forit.
Speaker 7 (50:42):
I would love to.
So one challenge I have.
So I have a 13-year old and Ifind that by the time I get to
her after school, my emotionalrunway is already spent for that
day.
And then a lot of times shelikes to um do what teenagers do
, and so I'm curious if thereare any strategies um, you know,
(51:04):
as you're balancing being afounder and being a mom, um that
really work to make sure thatyou're protecting that emotional
runway time for your family andnot giving it all away at work.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Oh my gosh, it is so hard and I do think it is quite
a reckoning when we have thosemoments which, like I have
certainly had and I think mostpeople have had which is, I use
the best of me at work, the highenergy, the like.
Let you like I bring the bestof me to work.
(51:37):
And that is a hard thing tolike look in the face, and
sometimes it's a necessity andsometimes it's a choice, and so
I think that I mean my instinctthere I don't, again, I don't
have a perfect answer I think myinstinct is to kind of sit with
yourself about what matters themost to you in those moments
and those interactions.
So is it that you have a littlebit more of a boundary so that
(51:59):
you can protect 15 minutes tolike come back to baseline,
whatever that looks like for youbefore that interaction?
Or is it that, back to theoutsourcing conversation Maybe
you do pick up two days a weekand you renegotiate the terms of
somebody else can do pickup, sothat you are like kind of
changed?
So I would say like rethink itall, rethink the structure right
(52:21):
and figure out what works foryou.
Like I know, like some peopleyou know, are you the drop-off
parent?
Are you the pickup parent?
How do, how do you guardrailthose interactions so that they
don't just work for them, theywork for you too.
And there's a lot in therethat's indulgent, right, like,
like the assumption even that,like you can choose.
But where you can choose, I dothink there's an opportunity to
(52:43):
say how do I make theseinteractions work better for me
so that I can show up in a waythat feels good to me?
And there's room there right toredesign, knowing again there's
a lot we can't control,including the mood of our
children, certainly.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Great, great question , and I think, too, part of it
goes back to like we are morethan just the founder, so being
able to have these conversations, we're more than just the
founder, we're more than justthe mom, we're more than just
the caretaker.
So all of these differentaspects really depend on each
other.
If you enjoyed this episode,share it with a friend and don't
(53:23):
forget to leave us a review.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
consider joining our communityof powerful women eager to help
you get there and stay there.
To learn more, go towwwbestherco.
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