February 23, 2024 • 57 mins
Remote-work has dwindled over the past few years as employers issue return-to-office mandates. But will that continue in 2024?
In this episode VEST Member Jess Kyle, Data Engineer Manager at Underdog Sports, a fully remote company with more than 350 distributed employees, talks to Lynn Greenberg, Founder of Pivt, a platform helping employers reduce turnover and enhance the social well-being of relocated, mobile, and remote workers and their families.
Listen to the conversation, we covered:
00:00:03 Remote Work Trends and Employee Satisfaction
00:19:21 Leveraging Technology for Remote Productivity
00:24:39 Addressing Employee Well-Being and Burnout
00:34:50 Improving Work-Life Balance Through Company Culture
00:40:20 Shift in Purpose of on-Site Retreats
00:49:16 Remote Work and Gender Disparities
00:55:44 Work Alignment and Personal Boundaries
Pivt is a VEST Her Ventures Portfolio Company.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend, leave us a review and don't forget to hit the subscribe button. If you are ready to take your career and business to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and
founding member of Vest, anorganization connecting women
across industries, regions andcareer levels so that together
we can expedite the pipeline ofmore women in positions of power
and influence.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Vestor podcast, where we
(00:23):
explore the invisible barriersholding women back in the
workplace and share stories ofwomen building power
collectively.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Post COVID.
For both the employee and theemployer, it's been a real time
of reflection.
From the employer side ofthings, I think they've really
had to think about what is thenature of our business right?
So if you're a software company, it might be a little bit
easier to have everyone workremotely and might be more
affordable to get people allover the world.
(00:58):
If you're in manufacturing orsometimes retail, that might not
be as easy.
And then another thing thatthese companies I think are
starting to really look at is alot of these companies hire
people remotely during thepandemic and one of the things
that they're now having toconsider is, if we're having
(01:19):
everyone return to office, theynow need to pay those people a
relocation package because theywere hired as a remote worker,
and that could be upwards, as Imentioned before, of $90,000 per
remote employee to say, okay,you need to relocate to Texas
because we're mandating you tocome in three days a week or
five days a week.
That's a hefty cost.
(01:40):
And also, what type of talentare they going to potentially
lose when they take that strictstance?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Remote work has dwindled over the past few years
as employers issue return tooffice mandates, but will that
continue in 2024?
In this episode, vest memberJess Kyle, data engineer manager
at Underdog Sports, a fullyremote company with more than
350 distributed employees, talksto Lynn Greenberg, founder of
(02:10):
Pivot, a platform helpingemployers reduce turnover while
enhancing the social well-beingof relocated, mobile and remote
workers, as well as theirfamilies.
Join us as we talk aboutemployer versus employee
expectations, how managers canprepare for hybrid models, new
work from home technologies andhow business leaders should
rethink office space.
(02:31):
This episode is brought to youby Vestor Ventures, our venture
capital arm, investing in womenled companies, building
solutions for the intersectionof the care economy and future
of work.
Also by Vest Peer Network, anetwork of professional women
across industries, regions andcareer levels, helping each
(02:51):
other navigate careers andworking together to build a
future of more inclusive workspaces.
This conversation was part of amore intimate coaching session
with Vest members and has beenrepurposed to accommodate this
episode.
If you enjoy the episode, shareit with a friend and don't
forget to leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Really excited to talk with Lynn today.
I want to just start out bysharing some context.
I think it's worth noting thatsome jobs simply cannot be done
remotely.
You know, jobs like careservices, manufacturing, many
teaching jobs, lots ofcritically important jobs are
unable to benefit from remotework.
I think it's important toacknowledge those folks and that
(03:32):
fact.
I also want to point out thatwe have people joining us from
both an employee and an employerperspective today.
I imagine that there are variedexperiences across the group
with remote work and I encourageall of you to share your
perspectives and ask questionsin the chat as the discussion
unfolds.
So with that, I'd like tointroduce today's guest.
We have Lynn Greenberg with us.
(03:55):
She is the founder and CEO ofPivot, which is a cutting edge
platform focused on reducingturnover and enhancing the
social well-being of women andenhancing the social well-being
of relocated, mobile and remoteemployees and their families.
Importantly, I'm going to tellyou all about Lynn in just a
moment, but first I want tocongratulate her on her recent
(04:16):
over-subscribed $3.5 millionfunding round.
I cannot wait to see the impactthat this is going to have on
furthering Pivot's mission,which I think is best summed up
by a quote that I found on oneof Lynn's LinkedIn posts, where
she says no one should feelalone in a place that should
feel like home.
So let me tell you all aboutLynn.
(04:37):
She is recognized as a Forbes30 under 30 in 2022 and Forbes
next 1000 in 2021.
Lynn is also actively involvedon the board of trustees at her
alma mater, franklin andMarshall College.
Before launching Pivot, lynngained valuable experience at
Bloomberg LP in London andAutonomy Ventures, where she
(04:59):
excelled in securing startupdeal flow, managing teams and
driving value creation forportfolio companies.
A dedicated mentor and advisor,lynn contributes her expertise
to women in business at YeshivaUniversity, astia Angels and
London and Partners.
Lynn's influence extends tovarious speaking engagements,
(05:20):
including South by Southwest,harvard University, nyu, stern
Business School, columbiaUniversity Business School, new
York Venture Summit, brandeisUniversity and the University of
Oxford.
She's also been featured inreputable publications such as
Forbes, the London EveningStandard and Digital Trends.
Lynn also shares her insightsthrough contributions to Thrive
(05:44):
Global, erc, worldwide MobilityMagazine, startup Magazine and
the Entrepreneur Podcast Network.
Lynn welcome and thank you somuch for joining us.
Thank you, such a privilege.
All right, let's dive right in.
I'm hoping you can start out bytelling us a little bit more
about Pivot.
What is it who uses it and whatare the main benefits of the
(06:06):
platform for both employers andemployees?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Absolutely.
So a little bit of context, andwhy Pivot means so much to me.
So Pivot was actually startedout of my own experience.
I relocated to London to workfor Bloomberg as a 21-year-old
and I landed there withoutknowing anyone, faced the issue
that all people do when movingsomewhere new, which is where do
(06:31):
you start to make your new cityfeel like home?
And despite the fact that I hada hefty relocation package, the
one thing that was missing forme turned out to be the number
one concern of all relocated andmobile employees, which is that
social well-being.
And what I struggled to findwas where do I live?
Which bank do I join?
(06:51):
How do I get information on mycity from people I trust?
What are the answers to thequestions I don't know to ask?
And then, how do I meet peoplefrom scratch and really make the
most of what I felt was a lifechanging opportunity?
And as we dug in deeper, what wecame to find was that the
average company spends $90,000on average domestically,
(07:14):
$300,000 on averageinternationally relocating
someone, and a third of thosepeople will quit their job
within a year or move back homebecause of their and their
family's inability to sociallyacclimate.
And so what we do at Pivot is weare a platform designed to
reduce turnover and improve thesocial well-being for relocated,
(07:36):
mobile, remote employees andtheir families.
We work with some of thelargest companies globally.
We started working with citiesthat are now attracting and
retaining remote workers toboost their economy and help
with the population deficitsthat they may have, and really
(07:58):
we do that through helping theemployees and their family
members make their new city feelat home through community
wellness, curated content toreally make sure that they
acclimate and make sure thatit's a transformative experience
, and all the while for theemployers, really helping them
protect their investment right,make sure that their employees
(08:19):
are happy and they stay, because, as we all know, people are the
most valuable asset to anyorganization, and I think one of
the silver linings of COVID wasthat we really found that that
company started understandingthat that good health and doing
right by your employees is alsoa very good business.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, definitely Could not agree with you more
there.
Are there any insights that youcan share from pivot users
about the preferences ofemployees when it comes to
working remotely or having amore flexible workspace?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I would say a couple things.
So I think it's constantlychanging.
I think it's different now thanit was two months ago, than it
was six months ago and certainlypre-COVID, and I think
understanding that is a reallyimportant thing for employees to
know and employers to know.
I think the motivations thebiggest thing is motivations for
(09:18):
moving are changing.
So traditionally it was yourcompany is going to relocate,
you you decide whether you wantto go or you don't want to go.
Now motivations are shifting,right?
We found that post COVID, therewere a whole lot of people I
think it was close to 3 millionplus domestically that relocated
(09:41):
on their own due to the factthat they could work more
flexibly.
Right, and people are startingto think about what priorities
are important to you.
Is it lifestyle?
Is it cost of living?
What's best for my family?
Do I need to be commuting fivedays a week?
Right, and those, if they don't, and those priorities take
precedent.
People are starting to torelocate because of those
(10:05):
aligned values.
I think what we're also seeingas of late and we actually have
started to see this since thelast election cycle is people
are now moving because ofclimate change, increasingly,
and because of politics, and soI think what we're starting to
see in terms of motivations isare people working to live or
(10:26):
living to work?
And those priorities are verymuch shifting, and that is
giving way into what ismotivating people to move.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I joke around often aboutworking from home.
Sometimes, depending on what'sgoing on, it's a lot more like
living at work than working fromhome.
That leads me into my nextquestion, which is about
striking a balance From acustomer perspective, what are
(11:00):
you hearing about the mainchallenges and opportunities
that organizations are facingStriking a balance between
remote and in-office work?
I know it seems like there'sthe rise of the hybrid culture
and there's opinions all acrossthe spectrum on that, but what
are you hearing from yourcustomers on this?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah.
So I'll start with thechallenges.
I think one of the big ones isculture.
It's very easy when you're inthe same office space to have
your vision on the walls and tobe communicative and transparent
and really make sure thateveryone's on the same boat.
(11:39):
And I think companies arestruggling with really
cultivating that cultureremotely and virtually.
And so how do you really starthyper-focusing and being really
intentional about that?
With that, I think, coincideswith that social well-being
(12:00):
component.
So traditionally, the workplaceis really a place where we find
a lot of our social connectionsand we all know that that
contributes to health and peopleextending and feeling more
loyal at their company if theyhave a co-worker beside them
that they really enjoy beingwith or working with.
(12:21):
And so how do you cultivatethose connections virtually as
well, which also helpsproductivity?
If you trust those people, youcreate those connections.
That really extends from asocial perspective really to the
workplace and the task at hand.
I think another thing thatcompanies are thinking about is
(12:42):
KPIs and tracking I think a lotof companies continue to be
concerned of.
If we're letting our companieswork remotely, how do we know
that they're not going to be onthe golf course nine hours a day
and are they getting their jobsdone?
And so what are those newsoftwares that we need to
install, what are some of thosenew management styles that we
(13:04):
need to start promoting in orderto make sure that people are
hitting their goals and thatthey're working and taking
advantage of that?
And then I would say, achallenge as well is attracting
and retaining top talent,because I think people really
(13:25):
started understanding what theirpriorities were during COVID
and what their preferences were,and so companies really need to
understand the repercussions ofwhether they're going to say,
ok, we're going to have everyonecome back five days a week,
we're going to be completelyremote, or we're going to be
(13:47):
hybrid, and that will very muchimpact the talent pool, that
will impact who they're gettingand, from a cost standpoint,
what does office space look like?
The opportunity side of things,one of the main things that
(14:10):
we're seeing, especially withsome of the cities that we're
starting to work with, and wefound we're working with one
city in upstate New York, andthey did a survey on what
they're finding.
So to give you a little bit ofcontext, this region is
incentivizing remote workers torelocate there, and they're
(14:31):
giving them a cash allowance,they're helping them with
housing, and they found that 60%of their applicants were those
with accessibility needs, and Ithink that's a really important
thing that we need to becognizant of, and I think it's a
really great opportunity Isremote work really helps people
(14:51):
with accessibility needs A butalso people with different work
styles and lifestyle.
If you're a mother, if you're afather, that really prioritizes
that.
It really gives a lot ofnewfound flexibility in terms of
how, when and where we work,and so I think that's an
opportunity for the employeesand also the employers if they
(15:14):
can really understand how tocater to that.
The other thing that I wouldsay is two different things.
I would say the talent pool.
You don't have to hire in onespecific region if you have a
remote work lifestyle, which Ithink is really interesting, and
(15:34):
a lot of companies are lookingat this as a means to cut on
office space, which isinteresting as well.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, that is pretty interesting.
I've often wondered about theconnection between the
commercial real estate marketand these policies that
companies have about return towork or not, so you mentioned a
few challenges there that I'mreally curious about what you're
seeing in terms of how thesecompanies are meeting the moment
(16:03):
, especially with regard toculture and allowing flexibility
With executive decision making.
How are you seeing and how doyou think, additionally, that it
could be done executivesweighing the decision to mandate
a return to the office versusallowing flexibility, taking
into account employeesatisfaction and overall
(16:26):
business needs?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think this post-COVID for both the employee
and the employer, it's been areal time of reflection, and
from the employer side of things, I think they've really had to
think about what is the natureof our business.
So, if you're a softwarecompany, it might be a little
bit easier to have everyone workremotely and might be more
(16:53):
affordable to get people allover the world.
If you're in manufacturing orsometimes retail, that might not
be as easy, and so I think it'sreally understanding the nature
of your business.
What you need to do to reallyservice your clients and your
end user in the best possibleway is A.
And then another thing thatthese companies I think are
(17:17):
starting to really look at is alot of these companies hire
people remotely during thepandemic, and one of the things
that they're now having toconsider is if we're having
everyone return to office, theynow need to pay those people a
relocation package because theywere hired as a remote worker,
and that could be upwards, as Imentioned before, of $90,000 per
(17:42):
remote employee to say, okay,you need to relocate to Texas
because we're mandating you tocome in three days a week or
five days a week, and that's ahefty cost, right?
And so I think a lot ofcompanies need to see if they
can do that first of all, andalso, what type of talent are
(18:02):
they going to potentially losewhen they take that strict
stance right?
And so I think one of the thingsthat we've seen many times is a
lot of companies have saidwe're returning to office, and
then all of a sudden they backup on that because they learned
that a lot of their talent isgoing to quit right away, and so
that's something that I thinkthey're looking at is both on a
(18:25):
cost perspective and talentpolls.
And then the third aspect Iwould say that a lot of the
companies are weighing is againthat commercial real estate
piece.
So a lot of companies arelocked into 15, 20 year
commercial real estateinvestments and they're saying
(18:45):
everyone needs to return tooffice because we need to pay
for this space, right?
I think it's going to be reallyinteresting to see in five, 10
years how that shifts, becausethose leases will be up and it
is a significant cost cuttingmechanism if you can save on
that office space and be moreintentional about it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, definitely.
It seems like, in at least somecases, the cost of relocating
all those employees is probablyless than the cost of just
paying the lease and lettingpeople keep working remotely.
What about technology?
And by that I mean leveragingtechnology to maintain
productivity and collaboration.
(19:27):
So, like in the context ofremote work, how are you seeing
executives ensuring that theircompanies are effectively?
You know, I mean, I thinkthere's a balance to strike and
maybe you can speak to this toobetween monitoring in the sense
of, like, having a handle onproductivity and making sure
people are working.
And then you know, like I thinkthere's a fine line between
(19:49):
that and like surveillance,which I think you know.
I've heard a lot of, you know,horror stories about things
companies do, but you know, whatare you seeing in terms of how
companies are leveragingtechnology in this way?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah.
So I think I think it's stillvery much a learning curve for a
lot of these companies andtrial and error and seeing what
works.
I think it obviously very muchdepends on the structure.
So are they hybrid?
Are they remote for the hybridorganizations and specific in
particular?
You know they have a lot ofsoftware that's really
(20:24):
organizing when people are goinginto the office more
intentionally, right, I thinkthe slacks of the world and
those intranets, those companyintranets are becoming more and
more important and how theyleverage that.
And I would say, not just on atask basis but, for instance,
our team is fully remote.
(20:46):
And one of the things, one ofthe most successful things that
we've done is we have a Slackchannel as well where it's
called the water cooler and wetalked about things that you
might you might have if we wereall in the same office, talked
about in the water cooler.
So I think it's kind of takingsome of these tools and really
leverage both task orientedthings that you wouldn't be able
(21:09):
to that kind of takes in theway of going over to your
colleagues desk and tapping themon the shoulder to you know
logistics and day to day tocalendar processes either.
You know intentionally whenyou're going into the office
space, or you know how tounderstand when people are in
office, in office, out of office, and then I think the other
(21:34):
thing that people are lookingtowards is you know managers are
doing retrospectives, and Ithink this is not an opportunity
.
I think managers need to startdoing, if they don't already,
retrospectives on where the gapsand opportunities are quarterly
, because what we're finding isthat tech is evolving so rapidly
(21:55):
.
Even you know.
You look at AI integrationsright, and how that's affecting
everything that we do in theworkplace.
I think that the the techcomponent, especially from a
remote work standpoint, needs tobe constantly checked in on,
because there are so manydifferent ways that you can be
(22:16):
improving and implementing andyou know, catering to to the
needs, both culturally and taskoriented.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
When we're talking about remotework and its impact on
productivity, how are executivesaddressing, and how can they
address, concerns related toaccountability?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think it's being hyper clear on goals, both
personal goals, team and companygoals, kpis and how each person
contributes to the company,team and individual success.
I think that has to be very,very clear because then, from
(23:01):
the standpoint of them beingconcerned, if you're on the golf
course as opposed to workingright, if they're hitting their
KPIs and they're beingsuccessful in those ways, then
who cares right?
So I think that is a reallyreally big component to being
able to do this successfully.
I think the other aspect isreally developing systems of
(23:25):
transparency.
So, for instance, our teamevery Monday will list things
that they accomplished last weekand what they're looking to
accomplish this week, and whatthat does is it really promotes
accountability, which I think isreally important, because I
think everyone it's alsoimportant, when you can't see
what your colleagues working on,to really understand how
(23:47):
they're contributing to theteam's goals and the overall
goals and maybe those thingsthat they have questions there
that they might not be able tosee because they're working
remotely, right, and so I thinkthose are some of the things
that we've found to be prettysuccessful.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, I see Erica's comment here in the chat about
executives using it as an excusefor bad management.
Like, I agree that this is amanagement challenge.
I think you mentionedtransparency being important.
I totally agree and I thinkthat in addition to that, we
also need leaders who aremodeling the way in terms of
(24:22):
being accountable, like speakingup when you make a mistake,
letting people challenge youpublicly and addressing concerns
and accountability head on.
I think modeling that is superimportant Absolutely.
How are you seeing executivesaddress, like, the well-being of
(24:43):
employees, both remote and inoffice, but especially
considering the potential forburnout?
And I like, for context here, Ihave a lot of friends who are
professionals, like many of youhere in this group, and it seems
like, especially in the last, Iwant to say, year or so,
everyone I'm talking to is likeI'm so burned out, I'm working
so much, there's so much comingat me so fast.
(25:05):
You know, how are companiesaddressing the well-being in
this sense?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So, as I mentioned briefly earlier, I think one of
the silver linings of thepandemic was really employee
well-being.
I think it started to takecenter stage because everyone
really felt that burnout andfelt their well-being sacrificed
in some capacity.
And so employers are startingto really realize that good
(25:34):
health and taking care of youremployees is also good business
and helps with their tension andproductivity.
And this extends to social,financial, physical well-being.
And so I think what we'refinding is a couple of things.
I think we're seeing more andmore companies, even within the
last six months, hiring heads ofwell-being at their
organization whose job is toinfuse well-being into each part
(25:57):
of their organization.
So that's a really excitingmechanism to see on its own.
We're also seeing a lot ofthese companies hiring ahead of
mental health and really cominginto each aspect of the business
again and seeing okay, how canwe rework our strategy to really
incorporate this, which isreally, really cool.
(26:19):
And then I would say I think abig shift is benefits are
changing.
So pre-pandemic, it was allabout free food and ping-pong
tables in the office.
Right now it's about well-being.
Right, how do we take care ofyou?
And then the last aspect Iwould really say is.
(26:40):
I think it's really importantfrom a management perspective to
really walk the walk.
I think it's really importantit's sometimes easier said than
done, but to really show youremployees that you're taking
care of yourself, that you'retaking a maybe.
It's maybe, and that can be ina variety of different ways.
Maybe you're taking a gym classin the middle of a workday,
right, or you're going for awalk, or you're doing things to
(27:05):
really support yourself, and soI think there's a really big
accountability that needs tohappen on the management side to
really understand culturallythat taking care of your
well-being and your family'swell-being is something that we
prioritize and we see as goodbusiness.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, I think I mentioned earlier feeling like
you're living at work.
Sometimes it does feel like theboundaries between work and
personal can get blurred if youallow them to.
I'm curious if, with thesecompanies you're working with,
are you seeing a lot ofdiscussion around encouraging
(27:46):
their employees to set andmaintain personal boundaries?
I think it's so important forthat message to come from
leadership, because otherwiseemployees are just going to
assume like, oh, I need to be onall the time, I need to be
working all the time, and Ithink everyone deserves to be
disconnected from work.
So are you seeing that kind ofcommunication happening or not
(28:07):
so much?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yes, and in fact I'm seeing a lot of it.
I'm seeing it also in people'semails.
On the bottom of their emailsthey'll say I may be responding
to you at a crazy hour, don'tfeel like you need to respond to
me at a crazy hour.
And so I think managers have toreally set the stage and have
(28:31):
to be a little bit more vocalabout what those priorities are,
not just for themselves, butalso correlating it back to the
overall well-being of thebusiness.
Because if you can't take careof yourself and you can't
prioritize those things, it'sgoing to lead to burnout, and we
(28:52):
know that that's not good forbusiness either.
And so I think really sayingthis is not just a nice to have,
but we need you to take care ofyourself, we need you to do
these things, we need you toturn off and start prioritizing
yourself, because that's goodfor our business.
So I think we're starting tosee that more and more, and I
think the most successfulcompanies are going to see that
(29:16):
10 times over in terms of theretention of their employees and
the productivity and the lackof burnout.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, We've talked a lot so far about during the
pandemic, people's prioritieschanged.
It suddenly illuminated like oh, wait a minute what's really
important to me, and now we havea lot more employees valuing
flexibility, so that putspressure on companies to come up
with new retention strategiesto keep their top talent within
(29:46):
the organization.
What are you seeing here,trend-wise?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I think a lot of it is, as I mentioned before, the
type of work and how selectivethey can be.
It also, I think, is going tovery much depend on the economy
and who holds the leverage.
Is it the employer or theemployee, unfortunately?
And then I think some of thetrends that we'll be looking at
(30:14):
certainly we are is thingsaround accommodating workers and
accessibility needs, but noteven those workers with
accessibility needs.
But sometimes, as I mentioned,if you're a parent, you're going
to be way more productive ifyou know that your kids are
taking care of and that you canpick them up from school and
(30:35):
those types of things.
And we're also seeing like we'vehad a couple of people that
were saying I don't have anaccessibility need, but the
lighting in the offices there'sjust too much for me.
I get migraines, and so it's, Ithink, really understanding.
I think companies and employersare going to really understand
(30:58):
that it's not cookie cutter andthat they're really going to
have to understand when, whatand how people work best and
really look to kind ofaccommodate that into their
strategy.
As I mentioned before, I thinkthe other trend we need to be
watching is really thatcommercial real estate piece,
right Like what's going tohappen in five, 10 years when
(31:21):
those leases run out.
How's that going to adjuststrategy and return to office?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, I think that's going to be a really huge
opportunity for a lot ofcompanies and it'll be really
interesting to see how many ofthem decide to kind of make a
shift, because I think whatyou're saying about
accessibility needs is soimportant.
When companies are not takingthat into consideration, you're
leaving huge amounts of talentjust on the table by expecting
(31:49):
your workforce to kind of justfit into this like, as you said,
cookie cutter, mold and it justthat's not the world we live in
.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and not just for people with
accessibility needs, asmentioned.
But it's you know, some peopleI certainly don't.
I don't work great when I'msitting at a desk nine to five.
I work way better when I'm ableto move around a little bit
more and change my scenery.
Maybe take 30 minutes to go fora walk in the middle of the day
, right?
And so I think it's reallythinking about how do we get the
(32:20):
most out of our talent?
Right, because I think it'simportant.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
And you know yeah, we've talkedabout parents and you know all
these situations where you mightbe taking care of someone and
how you can show up so muchbetter for the people that
depend on you when you havecontrol over your work schedule
and your environment.
Absolutely.
Let's drill in a little bit oncompany culture.
(32:46):
So, particularly in a hybridenvironment, I think I think we
all agree, maintaining a strongcompany culture, building
culture, is hard to nail itright, regardless of the setup,
but when you have a hybrid workenvironment or even totally
remote, I think there's evenadditional challenges.
On top of that, how do yourecommend that executives foster
(33:09):
a sense of belonging andcollaboration among team members
?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I think in a hybrid environment, it's really
important that they provide thetools to be intentional about
meeting.
So, when they do go into theoffice, are you making the most
of your time there?
Are you meeting with the rightpeople, both from a task
standpoint but also socially,and getting to know your
colleagues and building thatsense of trust?
I think, really giving newtypes of benefits and tools.
(33:39):
That extends beyond theworkplace, right.
And then, I think, creating ifthey're hybrid or they're remote
(34:10):
really being intentional aboutteam off-sites or how you're
getting people together, notjust day-to-day but as a company
as a whole.
Really connecting outside ofthe day-to-day task, I think is
really, really important from aculture standpoint.
And then, lastly, what I wouldsay is I think leaders need to
be even more vocal about theirvision and what's important to
(34:36):
them and how everyonecontributes to success.
I think that you need to bereinforcing that over and over
again when you're not important,even when you're not altogether
in person, all the time.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, those are really good points.
I think another point that Ithink some companies miss is
that it's not enough just tooffer these tools and offer have
someone in charge of wellbeingIf your decision-making about
what the company's going to bedoing is not in line with that
and doesn't facilitate that.
(35:09):
So, for example, let's say youwork at a company who the
velocity of new work is reallyfast, maybe they have all these
benefits and tools that you canuse to help feel more connected,
wellbeing tools to take bettercare of yourself.
But if the pace of your workand the decisions being made in
the company don't actually allowyou to take advantage of those
(35:31):
tools and benefits, then it'slike you may as well not even
have them.
I've experienced this inprevious roles, where it's like
people have to make a choicelike oh, do I take this
30-minute walk or do I finishthis critical thing that I'm
already going to be working ninehours today and I also have to
do this.
So I think I would like to seecompanies be more conscious of
(35:53):
those kinds of choices thatemployees are having to make,
and the decisions around thetools and the company trajectory
need to be in line.
Do you agree?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And I think a lot of that is again walking the walk.
I think management really needsto be transparent and show how
they're doing that.
And then also we've heard thisa lot too is employees have
great benefits, but they don'tknow how to utilize it to your
point.
And so are there people thatare there to explain or talk
about how they can takeadvantage, or to the fullest
(36:29):
extent, and then you've seenthis from a startup culture.
I think this is extending moreand more into the corporate
world.
But the unlimited time offreally saying to people, ok, but
we need you to take the timeoff because unfortunately,
especially in the US, we're in agrind culture and showing that
(36:51):
you're grinding and working morehours than not is seen as
amendable and successful.
And so I think really switchingthe narrative and having
leadership, the head of people,hr really say OK, here's how you
can take advantage of what weoffer you, here's how you should
(37:15):
be taking advantage of yourtime off.
And this is important because,xyz, this is not just a nice to
have, but I think we really needto start making people aware of
what they have and how they canreally utilize it to the
greatest extent and how thatcontributes back to company
success.
I think is the biggest thing.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, definitely, underdog.
We have a limited time off andthe only policy we have around
it is that you must take threeweeks minimum, that's great.
Yeah, I mean, like I said, Ithink they really are leading
the way in a lot of ways on thisremote work stuff.
So let's talk about futuretrends and predictions.
Looking ahead, what trends doyou foresee in the balance
(37:57):
between remote and in-officework?
I know we've talked a lot aboutthe real estate market.
How can executives prepare forthe evolving needs and
expectations of the workforce?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I think they have to get their systems in line and be
very attuned to employee pulseand, as I said, technology is
changing rapidly, people'smotivations for working and
moving is changing rapidly, andso I think it's really paramount
(38:33):
for them to really stay abreastof all of these things that are
popping up and the change insentiment and things like
inflation right, which couldreally change how people, where
they want to live and where theywant to work right and some of
the decisions, and so I think,thinking about it from an
(38:54):
employee standpoint, all thesethings that we're seeing pop up
and staying really close,potentially hiring that head of
wellness to keep that pulse onsentiment and where things are
headed, is going to be reallyparamount.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I just have this one final thing If you can leave us
with three main takeaways oraction items that you'd
recommend for VEST members, bothemployers and employees, I'll
keep it really simple, I think,for employees and employers.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I think we really, I would really urge everyone to
think about and evaluate yourpriorities, how, where and when
you work best, what work meansto you, right in regards to your
family, in regards to yourgoals and really make sure that
(39:44):
you're aligning your employees'needs and, as an employee,
you're aligning you and yourfamily's needs to what you're
doing at work.
I think that's one of theprivileges and the silver
linings that came out of COVIDis really the perspective to do
just that and be a little bitmore intentional and really
(40:06):
looking for those companies andthose employees that satisfy
that culture and that need.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, great advice.
All right, I'm going to giveyou a question from our chat.
So this is from Cat Slack.
Have you seen a shift in thepurpose of on-site retreats to
account for the full-timevirtual environment?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yes, absolutely.
So I think it's a couple ofthings parlaying that vision
over and over again, right, Ithink, especially, but also from
a social mechanism.
I think a lot of these retreatsnow are really to get to know
your colleagues, build trust,because then when you're across
(40:47):
from them on the Zoom over thescreen, it's way easier and more
productive to do work together.
You trust each other a littlebit more, you get to know their
habits and a little bit moreabout them.
So I think that's been, and Iwould say too, companies are
doing that from a retreatstandpoint.
I think they're also doingvirtual retreats too, right.
(41:10):
So there's like all theseAirbnb virtual things that you
can do, where you can bringsomeone on to help you build
sandwiches as a team.
Right, I think people are,companies are really seeing
retreats as a mechanism to getoutside of work and really
connect with people.
On that social standpoint, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Kristin Garcia asks work-life balance is now one and
the same when you make life andpersonal time a priority.
How are managers andsupervisors being trained on
asking about personal goals?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I think managers are well.
First of all, I would say thatthere's a fine line, right,
because you still need to kindof maintain being the manager
and not getting too engulfed inyour employees' day-to-day life.
(42:10):
But I think it's what everyoneis recognizing is that what
happens from the human sidegreatly affects work.
We're seeing this in relocation, right, as I mentioned those
numbers, a third of people willquit their job within a year and
move back home because of thathuman aspect, because them and
their family can acclimateoutside of work.
And so I think really makingsure that they understand what
(42:36):
the priorities and the needs ofthat individual, how they work,
when they work best, where theywork best, to really incorporate
that into their strategy, Ithink is very paramount.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
So I'm interested to know how do you find the balance
and be fair when you have someemployees who just absolutely
cannot work remote but the otherside of your organization can?
How do you find fairness andwellness benefits and work like
balance and all those thingsthat you guys are talking about?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, I think that's a really big challenge that a
lot of these organizations arefacing right now, and I think a
lot of it is generational toothat people are finding.
And I think the other challengethat companies are finding as
well is how do we also promoteand make sure that we're
(43:33):
creating mentorship and forthose new hires, really
onboarding them in the correctway, and so that kind of all
comes into play.
And I think that's why a lot ofthese companies are shifting
towards a hybrid where it's alittle bit more intentional
about, when you come in, givingpeople the bandwidth and the
(43:53):
opportunity to work in office ifthat's what they desire to do,
but creating that flexibilityand putting processes in place
that, if they would prefer towork remotely, that they have
the ability to do that too.
So I think it's easier said thandone, especially for the larger
companies, to do something ofthat sort.
But I think it is a challengethat is evolving and again it's
(44:18):
kind of diving into youremployees' specific and
individual needs and seeing howyou can best accommodate it.
So, for instance, I'll justgive one more example For a
company we've seen this for acompany that is not paying for
office space and everyone isworking remotely.
They're giving a budget foremployees to go to a coffee shop
(44:41):
every day or we work so they'regetting outside of the office
or a budget to meet for lunchwith some of their colleagues
every once in a while, or ahappy hour.
So I think kind of beingflexible is kind of the
mechanism that companies arestarting to take and really very
(45:02):
much in the figuring out mode.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Hi Lynn, thank you so much for your presentation.
I had a question.
I'm an attorney and I you knowthe law tends to, in the field
in general, tends to take a longtime to catch up with what the
rest of the world is doingsometimes.
I'm just curious, from yourperspective, in working with a
variety of different companiesacross the globe, I'm sure Can
(45:25):
you kind of give us just maybe awar story, if you will, of a
company who hasn't reallyembraced these ideas and this
new way of doing things and justkind of how that has impacted
then if you have that hasn'tbeen receptive to using services
like yours or the othertechnologies that are available
to really kind of fully embrace.
(45:46):
It's almost like after thepandemic and then it was like,
okay, everybody get back to workand let's just go back to
normal and the whole worldwasn't normal anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah, so I will say, too, that I think there's a
little bit of a catch-22 here.
So I think some companies andwe know there's been a load of
layoffs in the last year arekind of taking this as an
opportunity.
If they know that they aretrying to cut costs and they
need to reduce their workforce,that they're kind of saying,
(46:17):
okay, this is, we're doing this,it's the, it's my way, or the
highway, knowing that they needto cut workforce and saying this
is the mechanism that we'regoing to do that.
So I think we're seeing thatright first of all.
The second thing is, I thinkthe companies that haven't
leaned into this are reallystarting to see retention issues
(46:42):
and, with a war for talent,they're just not attracting the
right talent and the best talentBecause, as I said, people's
priorities are shifting right.
They care about wellness forthem, their family, their
lifestyle, and so when they'reevaluating jobs, I think there
was a study that recently cameout that said two-thirds of
(47:05):
workers would rather take a jobthat focused on lifestyle and
more well-being benefits than ona greater salary right, and so
I think it's something that theyreally need to lean into, and
I'm not going to name names, butthere are some large
corporations that have not, andthey've seen a really big
(47:29):
retention issue.
They've also seen pretty bad PRstunts right, which does not
look great on their company froma culture standpoint and I
think it's going to be.
Yeah, it's an issue.
Speaker 5 (47:45):
I have another question about your company
specifically.
Can you tell us more about?
You said you're starting towork with cities.
I'm just really interested inyour idea and kind of how you're
doing what you're doing.
It sounds really interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Appreciate it.
Yeah, so we started realizingabout eight months ago that what
we were doing to supportcorporations and their employees
right to help them takenewfound opportunities and
unfamiliar places, acclimate,find community was actually
really applicable to what a lotof cities and towns across the
(48:18):
US were starting to do postCOVID, which is there's 71
cities and towns just across theUS way more internationally
that are saying we are going toincentivize remote workers to
relocate to our location inorder to boost our economy and
help with a population deficit.
(48:39):
And so what we've been doingwith cities is we've been coming
in and saying we'll help youattract and retain that talent
so that when you pay them$10,000 to relocate here, plus
housing and everything else,that they'll actually stay
beyond that incentive period andthey'll contribute back.
And then also giving them somedata and insights from the human
(49:02):
side of things as to how youcan enhance their lives and your
program to make sure that theystay and have a transformative
experience in their new location.
Speaker 6 (49:16):
I have a question I'll just throw out there and it
kind of relates to Monica's.
You know the people expecttheir lawyers to be in an office
, but also that's sort of thecase for some nonprofit people.
You know there are certainindustries where they just sort
of expect you to be there andthe fake background of a pretend
office isn't going to do it forthem.
Do you get asked, or if whenyou do, from people who are
(49:39):
reluctant to engage withbusiness, people who are working
remotely, what do you tell themother than just you know the
general tropes of you knowretention and all of that, like
what are some of the benefits ofwhy it may even be more
valuable to work with folks inthose remote?
Speaker 2 (49:58):
situations, and you mean from a client standpoint,
like, yeah, yeah, I think itreally comes down to right
specific.
I think it comes down to thesame thing that businesses are
parlaying that doing right byways of employees and your
(50:19):
customers is also going to doright by business and there's
stats that show that.
And so I think there are someinstances where clients,
especially in some industries,will want to meet in person in
some regards.
So maybe they'll work remotelybut they'll take more business
trips.
But it also gives them there'salso benefits to that right.
(50:41):
If they're not paying foroffice space and they're working
remotely, they might be able todo more client visits in person
.
They may be able to be a littlebit more flexible with their
schedule because they're notgoing from meeting to meeting,
they're in front of Zoom.
So I think it's reallyunderstanding what some of the
(51:02):
benefits are and I don't thinkit personally doesn't make you
less reputable, right if you'renot in office, and I hope that
COVID really started to shiftthat narrative that you can be
just as productive in a homeoffice as you can be in a
corporate setting.
Speaker 6 (51:23):
I have one more kind of question and since it's a
group of all women, I feelcomfortable asking this.
So I work in nonprofit andoften with folks who are barely
making minimum wage or notmaking a ton of money.
They're using their and havehistorically used their PTO time
for personal taking care ofbusiness kind of things.
(51:45):
Now, as a woman and a mom, Ifind myself and I work with
colleagues who are taking theirwork from home time and really
just doing more mom stuff andit's not an issue, it's sort of
like what we do.
But when I'm working with malecolleagues who don't have that
same situation, how do you kindof level set the playing field,
(52:11):
so to speak, on a team whenthere's still that level of
disparity?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
I think that's something that unfortunately
goes on from a manager bymanager basis but needs to be
addressed and needs to andactually I might defer to Erica
on this because you might have alittle bit more insight from
the care economy standpoint asto how this is being addressed.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Well, I want to make sure that I understand your
question, amy.
So you're saying that womenworking from home we're still
doing all of the work, right?
So we're working whatever weneed needs to take care of at
the office and we're still doinghousehold management and care,
given duties, and all of thatand their unpaid labor?
Yeah, I mean, I think it'sshifting.
(52:54):
I think that you know, I thinkthat societal norms are shifting
a little bit.
I think that man are taken onmore of that.
I think we're destigmatizing thefact that man can contribute to
household management, to care,given duties.
I were certainly, as youmentioned, nowhere near where we
need to be.
I was joking with my husbandthe other day.
(53:17):
He was telling somebody that hefeels like he contributes a lot
and I'm like, yeah, but stillnot even 50-50.
Like, not even, and you don'tget a pat in the back just for
contributing.
So I mean, I think,unfortunately, this is why these
conversations matter, because Ithink that some of this, we as
managers can have conversations,but I think, more importantly,
(53:40):
as a society, need to have theseconversations because this is
more of a conversation with ourpartners, conversations with our
friends, conversations withmore women, you know, sharing
our stories and talking abouthow do you, you know, how do you
manage this, how do you havethese conversations.
I think we just need to do moreof that and then it's going to
(54:06):
be over time.
I don't think it's going tohappen right away.
I don't know if that answersyour questions.
I don't know if it's.
I made it even more sad but no,I think.
Speaker 6 (54:16):
I mean, I think more than anything, I'm just curious
how other people are thinkingabout that, because you know,
I'm I'm Gen X, 45 years old.
We're sort of in that cost thatwe have been for a long time of
everything shifting.
But I noticed that just acouple of years older than me
and beyond is a very differentperspective, and then below
there's a different perspective,and so it's just sort of how do
(54:38):
you navigate that?
And I find you know, I have hadsimilar conversations with my
partner and it's more like workcolleagues I find that are like
why aren't you so refreshed?
You worked from home yesterday?
And I'm like, yes, I worked mytwo jobs at the same time.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
I see what you mean.
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 5 (54:55):
Well, I mean you and I both know, especially in the
legal setting, I mean even infirms where men are given the
same, you know everybody you canwork remote, you can not,
whatever there, often, a lot oftimes I even have friends that
are, I mean they're using theirremote time to not do extra mom
stuff or home management orwhatever.
They're spending more time onthe golf course or wherever
(55:17):
right I mean, some of them are,and so I think it's a matter of
you know, like Erica was saying,you know just like obviously
setting those expectations.
But I totally understand whatyou're saying, because we're in
the same age group and I seethat too.
There's just these vastlydifferent views on how that
flexibility is utilized, frommen to women, between men and
(55:41):
women, and I think that Lynntouched on this right.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
I think that this is why it's very important and we
don't do it enough to take abreak and see how are we
aligning what's important to us,how do we want to work, when,
when, how, you know.
How do we want to contribute?
How do we align, you know, ourvalues and how we want to show
up and how we want to treat it,and what boundaries do we want
to set so that we can then holdourselves accountable?
(56:07):
We don't do that enough, Ithink we, because, you know, and
it's unfortunate, because we,as women, even when things are
going right, we're alwaysworried that we're going to drop
the ball and so but but I thinkthat that's why it's even more
important to Lynn's takeaway iswe need to make time to have
those conversations withourselves to see how we're doing
(56:30):
, how do we want to continue toshow up, and then what
boundaries are we going to puttogether to keep ourselves
accountable?
Right, because I mean, you know,some employers are going to do
all of these wonderful thingsthat we're talking about, or we
may implement all thesewonderful things we just talked
about as managers, but thateverybody's going to, and so
then, at that point, then itbecomes a personal choice, right
(56:51):
?
What do we want to do then,personally?
So if you enjoyed this episode,share it with a friend and
don't forget to leave us areview.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
apply to join our community ofprofessional women, all eager to
help you get there and staythere.
Go to wwwbestherco and applytoday.
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and
founding member of Vest, anorganization connecting women
across industries, regions andcareer levels so that together
we can expedite the pipeline ofmore women in positions of power
and influence.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Vestor podcast, where we
(00:23):
explore the invisible barriersholding women back in the
workplace and share stories ofwomen building power
collectively.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Post COVID.
For both the employee and theemployer, it's been a real time
of reflection.
From the employer side ofthings, I think they've really
had to think about what is thenature of our business right?
So if you're a software company, it might be a little bit
easier to have everyone workremotely and might be more
affordable to get people allover the world.
(00:58):
If you're in manufacturing orsometimes retail, that might not
be as easy.
And then another thing thatthese companies I think are
starting to really look at is alot of these companies hire
people remotely during thepandemic and one of the things
that they're now having toconsider is, if we're having
(01:19):
everyone return to office, theynow need to pay those people a
relocation package because theywere hired as a remote worker,
and that could be upwards, as Imentioned before, of $90,000 per
remote employee to say, okay,you need to relocate to Texas
because we're mandating you tocome in three days a week or
five days a week.
That's a hefty cost.
(01:40):
And also, what type of talentare they going to potentially
lose when they take that strictstance?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Remote work has dwindled over the past few years
as employers issue return tooffice mandates, but will that
continue in 2024?
In this episode, vest memberJess Kyle, data engineer manager
at Underdog Sports, a fullyremote company with more than
350 distributed employees, talksto Lynn Greenberg, founder of
(02:10):
Pivot, a platform helpingemployers reduce turnover while
enhancing the social well-beingof relocated, mobile and remote
workers, as well as theirfamilies.
Join us as we talk aboutemployer versus employee
expectations, how managers canprepare for hybrid models, new
work from home technologies andhow business leaders should
rethink office space.
(02:31):
This episode is brought to youby Vestor Ventures, our venture
capital arm, investing in womenled companies, building
solutions for the intersectionof the care economy and future
of work.
Also by Vest Peer Network, anetwork of professional women
across industries, regions andcareer levels, helping each
(02:51):
other navigate careers andworking together to build a
future of more inclusive workspaces.
This conversation was part of amore intimate coaching session
with Vest members and has beenrepurposed to accommodate this
episode.
If you enjoy the episode, shareit with a friend and don't
forget to leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Really excited to talk with Lynn today.
I want to just start out bysharing some context.
I think it's worth noting thatsome jobs simply cannot be done
remotely.
You know, jobs like careservices, manufacturing, many
teaching jobs, lots ofcritically important jobs are
unable to benefit from remotework.
I think it's important toacknowledge those folks and that
(03:32):
fact.
I also want to point out thatwe have people joining us from
both an employee and an employerperspective today.
I imagine that there are variedexperiences across the group
with remote work and I encourageall of you to share your
perspectives and ask questionsin the chat as the discussion
unfolds.
So with that, I'd like tointroduce today's guest.
We have Lynn Greenberg with us.
(03:55):
She is the founder and CEO ofPivot, which is a cutting edge
platform focused on reducingturnover and enhancing the
social well-being of women andenhancing the social well-being
of relocated, mobile and remoteemployees and their families.
Importantly, I'm going to tellyou all about Lynn in just a
moment, but first I want tocongratulate her on her recent
(04:16):
over-subscribed $3.5 millionfunding round.
I cannot wait to see the impactthat this is going to have on
furthering Pivot's mission,which I think is best summed up
by a quote that I found on oneof Lynn's LinkedIn posts, where
she says no one should feelalone in a place that should
feel like home.
So let me tell you all aboutLynn.
(04:37):
She is recognized as a Forbes30 under 30 in 2022 and Forbes
next 1000 in 2021.
Lynn is also actively involvedon the board of trustees at her
alma mater, franklin andMarshall College.
Before launching Pivot, lynngained valuable experience at
Bloomberg LP in London andAutonomy Ventures, where she
(04:59):
excelled in securing startupdeal flow, managing teams and
driving value creation forportfolio companies.
A dedicated mentor and advisor,lynn contributes her expertise
to women in business at YeshivaUniversity, astia Angels and
London and Partners.
Lynn's influence extends tovarious speaking engagements,
(05:20):
including South by Southwest,harvard University, nyu, stern
Business School, columbiaUniversity Business School, new
York Venture Summit, brandeisUniversity and the University of
Oxford.
She's also been featured inreputable publications such as
Forbes, the London EveningStandard and Digital Trends.
Lynn also shares her insightsthrough contributions to Thrive
(05:44):
Global, erc, worldwide MobilityMagazine, startup Magazine and
the Entrepreneur Podcast Network.
Lynn welcome and thank you somuch for joining us.
Thank you, such a privilege.
All right, let's dive right in.
I'm hoping you can start out bytelling us a little bit more
about Pivot.
What is it who uses it and whatare the main benefits of the
(06:06):
platform for both employers andemployees?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Absolutely.
So a little bit of context, andwhy Pivot means so much to me.
So Pivot was actually startedout of my own experience.
I relocated to London to workfor Bloomberg as a 21-year-old
and I landed there withoutknowing anyone, faced the issue
that all people do when movingsomewhere new, which is where do
(06:31):
you start to make your new cityfeel like home?
And despite the fact that I hada hefty relocation package, the
one thing that was missing forme turned out to be the number
one concern of all relocated andmobile employees, which is that
social well-being.
And what I struggled to findwas where do I live?
Which bank do I join?
(06:51):
How do I get information on mycity from people I trust?
What are the answers to thequestions I don't know to ask?
And then, how do I meet peoplefrom scratch and really make the
most of what I felt was a lifechanging opportunity?
And as we dug in deeper, what wecame to find was that the
average company spends $90,000on average domestically,
(07:14):
$300,000 on averageinternationally relocating
someone, and a third of thosepeople will quit their job
within a year or move back homebecause of their and their
family's inability to sociallyacclimate.
And so what we do at Pivot is weare a platform designed to
reduce turnover and improve thesocial well-being for relocated,
(07:36):
mobile, remote employees andtheir families.
We work with some of thelargest companies globally.
We started working with citiesthat are now attracting and
retaining remote workers toboost their economy and help
with the population deficitsthat they may have, and really
(07:58):
we do that through helping theemployees and their family
members make their new city feelat home through community
wellness, curated content toreally make sure that they
acclimate and make sure thatit's a transformative experience
, and all the while for theemployers, really helping them
protect their investment right,make sure that their employees
(08:19):
are happy and they stay, because, as we all know, people are the
most valuable asset to anyorganization, and I think one of
the silver linings of COVID wasthat we really found that that
company started understandingthat that good health and doing
right by your employees is alsoa very good business.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, definitely Could not agree with you more
there.
Are there any insights that youcan share from pivot users
about the preferences ofemployees when it comes to
working remotely or having amore flexible workspace?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I would say a couple things.
So I think it's constantlychanging.
I think it's different now thanit was two months ago, than it
was six months ago and certainlypre-COVID, and I think
understanding that is a reallyimportant thing for employees to
know and employers to know.
I think the motivations thebiggest thing is motivations for
(09:18):
moving are changing.
So traditionally it was yourcompany is going to relocate,
you you decide whether you wantto go or you don't want to go.
Now motivations are shifting,right?
We found that post COVID, therewere a whole lot of people I
think it was close to 3 millionplus domestically that relocated
(09:41):
on their own due to the factthat they could work more
flexibly.
Right, and people are startingto think about what priorities
are important to you.
Is it lifestyle?
Is it cost of living?
What's best for my family?
Do I need to be commuting fivedays a week?
Right, and those, if they don't, and those priorities take
precedent.
People are starting to torelocate because of those
(10:05):
aligned values.
I think what we're also seeingas of late and we actually have
started to see this since thelast election cycle is people
are now moving because ofclimate change, increasingly,
and because of politics, and soI think what we're starting to
see in terms of motivations isare people working to live or
(10:26):
living to work?
And those priorities are verymuch shifting, and that is
giving way into what ismotivating people to move.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I joke around often aboutworking from home.
Sometimes, depending on what'sgoing on, it's a lot more like
living at work than working fromhome.
That leads me into my nextquestion, which is about
striking a balance From acustomer perspective, what are
(11:00):
you hearing about the mainchallenges and opportunities
that organizations are facingStriking a balance between
remote and in-office work?
I know it seems like there'sthe rise of the hybrid culture
and there's opinions all acrossthe spectrum on that, but what
are you hearing from yourcustomers on this?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah.
So I'll start with thechallenges.
I think one of the big ones isculture.
It's very easy when you're inthe same office space to have
your vision on the walls and tobe communicative and transparent
and really make sure thateveryone's on the same boat.
(11:39):
And I think companies arestruggling with really
cultivating that cultureremotely and virtually.
And so how do you really starthyper-focusing and being really
intentional about that?
With that, I think, coincideswith that social well-being
(12:00):
component.
So traditionally, the workplaceis really a place where we find
a lot of our social connectionsand we all know that that
contributes to health and peopleextending and feeling more
loyal at their company if theyhave a co-worker beside them
that they really enjoy beingwith or working with.
(12:21):
And so how do you cultivatethose connections virtually as
well, which also helpsproductivity?
If you trust those people, youcreate those connections.
That really extends from asocial perspective really to the
workplace and the task at hand.
I think another thing thatcompanies are thinking about is
(12:42):
KPIs and tracking I think a lotof companies continue to be
concerned of.
If we're letting our companieswork remotely, how do we know
that they're not going to be onthe golf course nine hours a day
and are they getting their jobsdone?
And so what are those newsoftwares that we need to
install, what are some of thosenew management styles that we
(13:04):
need to start promoting in orderto make sure that people are
hitting their goals and thatthey're working and taking
advantage of that?
And then I would say, achallenge as well is attracting
and retaining top talent,because I think people really
(13:25):
started understanding what theirpriorities were during COVID
and what their preferences were,and so companies really need to
understand the repercussions ofwhether they're going to say,
ok, we're going to have everyonecome back five days a week,
we're going to be completelyremote, or we're going to be
(13:47):
hybrid, and that will very muchimpact the talent pool, that
will impact who they're gettingand, from a cost standpoint,
what does office space look like?
The opportunity side of things,one of the main things that
(14:10):
we're seeing, especially withsome of the cities that we're
starting to work with, and wefound we're working with one
city in upstate New York, andthey did a survey on what
they're finding.
So to give you a little bit ofcontext, this region is
incentivizing remote workers torelocate there, and they're
(14:31):
giving them a cash allowance,they're helping them with
housing, and they found that 60%of their applicants were those
with accessibility needs, and Ithink that's a really important
thing that we need to becognizant of, and I think it's a
really great opportunity Isremote work really helps people
(14:51):
with accessibility needs A butalso people with different work
styles and lifestyle.
If you're a mother, if you're afather, that really prioritizes
that.
It really gives a lot ofnewfound flexibility in terms of
how, when and where we work,and so I think that's an
opportunity for the employeesand also the employers if they
(15:14):
can really understand how tocater to that.
The other thing that I wouldsay is two different things.
I would say the talent pool.
You don't have to hire in onespecific region if you have a
remote work lifestyle, which Ithink is really interesting, and
(15:34):
a lot of companies are lookingat this as a means to cut on
office space, which isinteresting as well.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, that is pretty interesting.
I've often wondered about theconnection between the
commercial real estate marketand these policies that
companies have about return towork or not, so you mentioned a
few challenges there that I'mreally curious about what you're
seeing in terms of how thesecompanies are meeting the moment
(16:03):
, especially with regard toculture and allowing flexibility
With executive decision making.
How are you seeing and how doyou think, additionally, that it
could be done executivesweighing the decision to mandate
a return to the office versusallowing flexibility, taking
into account employeesatisfaction and overall
(16:26):
business needs?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think this post-COVID for both the employee
and the employer, it's been areal time of reflection, and
from the employer side of things, I think they've really had to
think about what is the natureof our business.
So, if you're a softwarecompany, it might be a little
bit easier to have everyone workremotely and might be more
(16:53):
affordable to get people allover the world.
If you're in manufacturing orsometimes retail, that might not
be as easy, and so I think it'sreally understanding the nature
of your business.
What you need to do to reallyservice your clients and your
end user in the best possibleway is A.
And then another thing thatthese companies I think are
(17:17):
starting to really look at is alot of these companies hire
people remotely during thepandemic, and one of the things
that they're now having toconsider is if we're having
everyone return to office, theynow need to pay those people a
relocation package because theywere hired as a remote worker,
and that could be upwards, as Imentioned before, of $90,000 per
(17:42):
remote employee to say, okay,you need to relocate to Texas
because we're mandating you tocome in three days a week or
five days a week, and that's ahefty cost, right?
And so I think a lot ofcompanies need to see if they
can do that first of all, andalso, what type of talent are
(18:02):
they going to potentially losewhen they take that strict
stance right?
And so I think one of the thingsthat we've seen many times is a
lot of companies have saidwe're returning to office, and
then all of a sudden they backup on that because they learned
that a lot of their talent isgoing to quit right away, and so
that's something that I thinkthey're looking at is both on a
(18:25):
cost perspective and talentpolls.
And then the third aspect Iwould say that a lot of the
companies are weighing is againthat commercial real estate
piece.
So a lot of companies arelocked into 15, 20 year
commercial real estateinvestments and they're saying
(18:45):
everyone needs to return tooffice because we need to pay
for this space, right?
I think it's going to be reallyinteresting to see in five, 10
years how that shifts, becausethose leases will be up and it
is a significant cost cuttingmechanism if you can save on
that office space and be moreintentional about it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, definitely.
It seems like, in at least somecases, the cost of relocating
all those employees is probablyless than the cost of just
paying the lease and lettingpeople keep working remotely.
What about technology?
And by that I mean leveragingtechnology to maintain
productivity and collaboration.
(19:27):
So, like in the context ofremote work, how are you seeing
executives ensuring that theircompanies are effectively?
You know, I mean, I thinkthere's a balance to strike and
maybe you can speak to this toobetween monitoring in the sense
of, like, having a handle onproductivity and making sure
people are working.
And then you know, like I thinkthere's a fine line between
(19:49):
that and like surveillance,which I think you know.
I've heard a lot of, you know,horror stories about things
companies do, but you know, whatare you seeing in terms of how
companies are leveragingtechnology in this way?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah.
So I think I think it's stillvery much a learning curve for a
lot of these companies andtrial and error and seeing what
works.
I think it obviously very muchdepends on the structure.
So are they hybrid?
Are they remote for the hybridorganizations and specific in
particular?
You know they have a lot ofsoftware that's really
(20:24):
organizing when people are goinginto the office more
intentionally, right, I thinkthe slacks of the world and
those intranets, those companyintranets are becoming more and
more important and how theyleverage that.
And I would say, not just on atask basis but, for instance,
our team is fully remote.
(20:46):
And one of the things, one ofthe most successful things that
we've done is we have a Slackchannel as well where it's
called the water cooler and wetalked about things that you
might you might have if we wereall in the same office, talked
about in the water cooler.
So I think it's kind of takingsome of these tools and really
leverage both task orientedthings that you wouldn't be able
(21:09):
to that kind of takes in theway of going over to your
colleagues desk and tapping themon the shoulder to you know
logistics and day to day tocalendar processes either.
You know intentionally whenyou're going into the office
space, or you know how tounderstand when people are in
office, in office, out of office, and then I think the other
(21:34):
thing that people are lookingtowards is you know managers are
doing retrospectives, and Ithink this is not an opportunity
.
I think managers need to startdoing, if they don't already,
retrospectives on where the gapsand opportunities are quarterly
, because what we're finding isthat tech is evolving so rapidly
(21:55):
.
Even you know.
You look at AI integrationsright, and how that's affecting
everything that we do in theworkplace.
I think that the the techcomponent, especially from a
remote work standpoint, needs tobe constantly checked in on,
because there are so manydifferent ways that you can be
(22:16):
improving and implementing andyou know, catering to to the
needs, both culturally and taskoriented.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
When we're talking about remotework and its impact on
productivity, how are executivesaddressing, and how can they
address, concerns related toaccountability?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think it's being hyper clear on goals, both
personal goals, team and companygoals, kpis and how each person
contributes to the company,team and individual success.
I think that has to be very,very clear because then, from
(23:01):
the standpoint of them beingconcerned, if you're on the golf
course as opposed to workingright, if they're hitting their
KPIs and they're beingsuccessful in those ways, then
who cares right?
So I think that is a reallyreally big component to being
able to do this successfully.
I think the other aspect isreally developing systems of
(23:25):
transparency.
So, for instance, our teamevery Monday will list things
that they accomplished last weekand what they're looking to
accomplish this week, and whatthat does is it really promotes
accountability, which I think isreally important, because I
think everyone it's alsoimportant, when you can't see
what your colleagues working on,to really understand how
(23:47):
they're contributing to theteam's goals and the overall
goals and maybe those thingsthat they have questions there
that they might not be able tosee because they're working
remotely, right, and so I thinkthose are some of the things
that we've found to be prettysuccessful.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, I see Erica's comment here in the chat about
executives using it as an excusefor bad management.
Like, I agree that this is amanagement challenge.
I think you mentionedtransparency being important.
I totally agree and I thinkthat in addition to that, we
also need leaders who aremodeling the way in terms of
(24:22):
being accountable, like speakingup when you make a mistake,
letting people challenge youpublicly and addressing concerns
and accountability head on.
I think modeling that is superimportant Absolutely.
How are you seeing executivesaddress, like, the well-being of
(24:43):
employees, both remote and inoffice, but especially
considering the potential forburnout?
And I like, for context here, Ihave a lot of friends who are
professionals, like many of youhere in this group, and it seems
like, especially in the last, Iwant to say, year or so,
everyone I'm talking to is likeI'm so burned out, I'm working
so much, there's so much comingat me so fast.
(25:05):
You know, how are companiesaddressing the well-being in
this sense?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So, as I mentioned briefly earlier, I think one of
the silver linings of thepandemic was really employee
well-being.
I think it started to takecenter stage because everyone
really felt that burnout andfelt their well-being sacrificed
in some capacity.
And so employers are startingto really realize that good
(25:34):
health and taking care of youremployees is also good business
and helps with their tension andproductivity.
And this extends to social,financial, physical well-being.
And so I think what we'refinding is a couple of things.
I think we're seeing more andmore companies, even within the
last six months, hiring heads ofwell-being at their
organization whose job is toinfuse well-being into each part
(25:57):
of their organization.
So that's a really excitingmechanism to see on its own.
We're also seeing a lot ofthese companies hiring ahead of
mental health and really cominginto each aspect of the business
again and seeing okay, how canwe rework our strategy to really
incorporate this, which isreally, really cool.
(26:19):
And then I would say I think abig shift is benefits are
changing.
So pre-pandemic, it was allabout free food and ping-pong
tables in the office.
Right now it's about well-being.
Right, how do we take care ofyou?
And then the last aspect Iwould really say is.
(26:40):
I think it's really importantfrom a management perspective to
really walk the walk.
I think it's really importantit's sometimes easier said than
done, but to really show youremployees that you're taking
care of yourself, that you'retaking a maybe.
It's maybe, and that can be ina variety of different ways.
Maybe you're taking a gym classin the middle of a workday,
right, or you're going for awalk, or you're doing things to
(27:05):
really support yourself, and soI think there's a really big
accountability that needs tohappen on the management side to
really understand culturallythat taking care of your
well-being and your family'swell-being is something that we
prioritize and we see as goodbusiness.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, I think I mentioned earlier feeling like
you're living at work.
Sometimes it does feel like theboundaries between work and
personal can get blurred if youallow them to.
I'm curious if, with thesecompanies you're working with,
are you seeing a lot ofdiscussion around encouraging
(27:46):
their employees to set andmaintain personal boundaries?
I think it's so important forthat message to come from
leadership, because otherwiseemployees are just going to
assume like, oh, I need to be onall the time, I need to be
working all the time, and Ithink everyone deserves to be
disconnected from work.
So are you seeing that kind ofcommunication happening or not
(28:07):
so much?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yes, and in fact I'm seeing a lot of it.
I'm seeing it also in people'semails.
On the bottom of their emailsthey'll say I may be responding
to you at a crazy hour, don'tfeel like you need to respond to
me at a crazy hour.
And so I think managers have toreally set the stage and have
(28:31):
to be a little bit more vocalabout what those priorities are,
not just for themselves, butalso correlating it back to the
overall well-being of thebusiness.
Because if you can't take careof yourself and you can't
prioritize those things, it'sgoing to lead to burnout, and we
(28:52):
know that that's not good forbusiness either.
And so I think really sayingthis is not just a nice to have,
but we need you to take care ofyourself, we need you to do
these things, we need you toturn off and start prioritizing
yourself, because that's goodfor our business.
So I think we're starting tosee that more and more, and I
think the most successfulcompanies are going to see that
(29:16):
10 times over in terms of theretention of their employees and
the productivity and the lackof burnout.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, We've talked a lot so far about during the
pandemic, people's prioritieschanged.
It suddenly illuminated like oh, wait a minute what's really
important to me, and now we havea lot more employees valuing
flexibility, so that putspressure on companies to come up
with new retention strategiesto keep their top talent within
(29:46):
the organization.
What are you seeing here,trend-wise?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I think a lot of it is, as I mentioned before, the
type of work and how selectivethey can be.
It also, I think, is going tovery much depend on the economy
and who holds the leverage.
Is it the employer or theemployee, unfortunately?
And then I think some of thetrends that we'll be looking at
(30:14):
certainly we are is thingsaround accommodating workers and
accessibility needs, but noteven those workers with
accessibility needs.
But sometimes, as I mentioned,if you're a parent, you're going
to be way more productive ifyou know that your kids are
taking care of and that you canpick them up from school and
(30:35):
those types of things.
And we're also seeing like we'vehad a couple of people that
were saying I don't have anaccessibility need, but the
lighting in the offices there'sjust too much for me.
I get migraines, and so it's, Ithink, really understanding.
I think companies and employersare going to really understand
(30:58):
that it's not cookie cutter andthat they're really going to
have to understand when, whatand how people work best and
really look to kind ofaccommodate that into their
strategy.
As I mentioned before, I thinkthe other trend we need to be
watching is really thatcommercial real estate piece,
right Like what's going tohappen in five, 10 years when
(31:21):
those leases run out.
How's that going to adjuststrategy and return to office?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, I think that's going to be a really huge
opportunity for a lot ofcompanies and it'll be really
interesting to see how many ofthem decide to kind of make a
shift, because I think whatyou're saying about
accessibility needs is soimportant.
When companies are not takingthat into consideration, you're
leaving huge amounts of talentjust on the table by expecting
(31:49):
your workforce to kind of justfit into this like, as you said,
cookie cutter, mold and it justthat's not the world we live in
.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and not just for people with
accessibility needs, asmentioned.
But it's you know, some peopleI certainly don't.
I don't work great when I'msitting at a desk nine to five.
I work way better when I'm ableto move around a little bit
more and change my scenery.
Maybe take 30 minutes to go fora walk in the middle of the day
, right?
And so I think it's reallythinking about how do we get the
(32:20):
most out of our talent?
Right, because I think it'simportant.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
And you know yeah, we've talkedabout parents and you know all
these situations where you mightbe taking care of someone and
how you can show up so muchbetter for the people that
depend on you when you havecontrol over your work schedule
and your environment.
Absolutely.
Let's drill in a little bit oncompany culture.
(32:46):
So, particularly in a hybridenvironment, I think I think we
all agree, maintaining a strongcompany culture, building
culture, is hard to nail itright, regardless of the setup,
but when you have a hybrid workenvironment or even totally
remote, I think there's evenadditional challenges.
On top of that, how do yourecommend that executives foster
(33:09):
a sense of belonging andcollaboration among team members
?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I think in a hybrid environment, it's really
important that they provide thetools to be intentional about
meeting.
So, when they do go into theoffice, are you making the most
of your time there?
Are you meeting with the rightpeople, both from a task
standpoint but also socially,and getting to know your
colleagues and building thatsense of trust?
I think, really giving newtypes of benefits and tools.
(33:39):
That extends beyond theworkplace, right.
And then, I think, creating ifthey're hybrid or they're remote
(34:10):
really being intentional aboutteam off-sites or how you're
getting people together, notjust day-to-day but as a company
as a whole.
Really connecting outside ofthe day-to-day task, I think is
really, really important from aculture standpoint.
And then, lastly, what I wouldsay is I think leaders need to
be even more vocal about theirvision and what's important to
(34:36):
them and how everyonecontributes to success.
I think that you need to bereinforcing that over and over
again when you're not important,even when you're not altogether
in person, all the time.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, those are really good points.
I think another point that Ithink some companies miss is
that it's not enough just tooffer these tools and offer have
someone in charge of wellbeingIf your decision-making about
what the company's going to bedoing is not in line with that
and doesn't facilitate that.
(35:09):
So, for example, let's say youwork at a company who the
velocity of new work is reallyfast, maybe they have all these
benefits and tools that you canuse to help feel more connected,
wellbeing tools to take bettercare of yourself.
But if the pace of your workand the decisions being made in
the company don't actually allowyou to take advantage of those
(35:31):
tools and benefits, then it'slike you may as well not even
have them.
I've experienced this inprevious roles, where it's like
people have to make a choicelike oh, do I take this
30-minute walk or do I finishthis critical thing that I'm
already going to be working ninehours today and I also have to
do this.
So I think I would like to seecompanies be more conscious of
(35:53):
those kinds of choices thatemployees are having to make,
and the decisions around thetools and the company trajectory
need to be in line.
Do you agree?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And I think a lot of that is again walking the walk.
I think management really needsto be transparent and show how
they're doing that.
And then also we've heard thisa lot too is employees have
great benefits, but they don'tknow how to utilize it to your
point.
And so are there people thatare there to explain or talk
about how they can takeadvantage, or to the fullest
(36:29):
extent, and then you've seenthis from a startup culture.
I think this is extending moreand more into the corporate
world.
But the unlimited time offreally saying to people, ok, but
we need you to take the timeoff because unfortunately,
especially in the US, we're in agrind culture and showing that
(36:51):
you're grinding and working morehours than not is seen as
amendable and successful.
And so I think really switchingthe narrative and having
leadership, the head of people,hr really say OK, here's how you
can take advantage of what weoffer you, here's how you should
(37:15):
be taking advantage of yourtime off.
And this is important because,xyz, this is not just a nice to
have, but I think we really needto start making people aware of
what they have and how they canreally utilize it to the
greatest extent and how thatcontributes back to company
success.
I think is the biggest thing.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, definitely, underdog.
We have a limited time off andthe only policy we have around
it is that you must take threeweeks minimum, that's great.
Yeah, I mean, like I said, Ithink they really are leading
the way in a lot of ways on thisremote work stuff.
So let's talk about futuretrends and predictions.
Looking ahead, what trends doyou foresee in the balance
(37:57):
between remote and in-officework?
I know we've talked a lot aboutthe real estate market.
How can executives prepare forthe evolving needs and
expectations of the workforce?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I think they have to get their systems in line and be
very attuned to employee pulseand, as I said, technology is
changing rapidly, people'smotivations for working and
moving is changing rapidly, andso I think it's really paramount
(38:33):
for them to really stay abreastof all of these things that are
popping up and the change insentiment and things like
inflation right, which couldreally change how people, where
they want to live and where theywant to work right and some of
the decisions, and so I think,thinking about it from an
(38:54):
employee standpoint, all thesethings that we're seeing pop up
and staying really close,potentially hiring that head of
wellness to keep that pulse onsentiment and where things are
headed, is going to be reallyparamount.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I just have this one final thing If you can leave us
with three main takeaways oraction items that you'd
recommend for VEST members, bothemployers and employees, I'll
keep it really simple, I think,for employees and employers.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I think we really, I would really urge everyone to
think about and evaluate yourpriorities, how, where and when
you work best, what work meansto you, right in regards to your
family, in regards to yourgoals and really make sure that
(39:44):
you're aligning your employees'needs and, as an employee,
you're aligning you and yourfamily's needs to what you're
doing at work.
I think that's one of theprivileges and the silver
linings that came out of COVIDis really the perspective to do
just that and be a little bitmore intentional and really
(40:06):
looking for those companies andthose employees that satisfy
that culture and that need.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, great advice.
All right, I'm going to giveyou a question from our chat.
So this is from Cat Slack.
Have you seen a shift in thepurpose of on-site retreats to
account for the full-timevirtual environment?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yes, absolutely.
So I think it's a couple ofthings parlaying that vision
over and over again, right, Ithink, especially, but also from
a social mechanism.
I think a lot of these retreatsnow are really to get to know
your colleagues, build trust,because then when you're across
(40:47):
from them on the Zoom over thescreen, it's way easier and more
productive to do work together.
You trust each other a littlebit more, you get to know their
habits and a little bit moreabout them.
So I think that's been, and Iwould say too, companies are
doing that from a retreatstandpoint.
I think they're also doingvirtual retreats too, right.
(41:10):
So there's like all theseAirbnb virtual things that you
can do, where you can bringsomeone on to help you build
sandwiches as a team.
Right, I think people are,companies are really seeing
retreats as a mechanism to getoutside of work and really
connect with people.
On that social standpoint, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Kristin Garcia asks work-life balance is now one and
the same when you make life andpersonal time a priority.
How are managers andsupervisors being trained on
asking about personal goals?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I think managers are well.
First of all, I would say thatthere's a fine line, right,
because you still need to kindof maintain being the manager
and not getting too engulfed inyour employees' day-to-day life.
(42:10):
But I think it's what everyoneis recognizing is that what
happens from the human sidegreatly affects work.
We're seeing this in relocation, right, as I mentioned those
numbers, a third of people willquit their job within a year and
move back home because of thathuman aspect, because them and
their family can acclimateoutside of work.
And so I think really makingsure that they understand what
(42:36):
the priorities and the needs ofthat individual, how they work,
when they work best, where theywork best, to really incorporate
that into their strategy, Ithink is very paramount.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
So I'm interested to know how do you find the balance
and be fair when you have someemployees who just absolutely
cannot work remote but the otherside of your organization can?
How do you find fairness andwellness benefits and work like
balance and all those thingsthat you guys are talking about?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, I think that's a really big challenge that a
lot of these organizations arefacing right now, and I think a
lot of it is generational toothat people are finding.
And I think the other challengethat companies are finding as
well is how do we also promoteand make sure that we're
(43:33):
creating mentorship and forthose new hires, really
onboarding them in the correctway, and so that kind of all
comes into play.
And I think that's why a lot ofthese companies are shifting
towards a hybrid where it's alittle bit more intentional
about, when you come in, givingpeople the bandwidth and the
(43:53):
opportunity to work in office ifthat's what they desire to do,
but creating that flexibilityand putting processes in place
that, if they would prefer towork remotely, that they have
the ability to do that too.
So I think it's easier said thandone, especially for the larger
companies, to do something ofthat sort.
But I think it is a challengethat is evolving and again it's
(44:18):
kind of diving into youremployees' specific and
individual needs and seeing howyou can best accommodate it.
So, for instance, I'll justgive one more example For a
company we've seen this for acompany that is not paying for
office space and everyone isworking remotely.
They're giving a budget foremployees to go to a coffee shop
(44:41):
every day or we work so they'regetting outside of the office
or a budget to meet for lunchwith some of their colleagues
every once in a while, or ahappy hour.
So I think kind of beingflexible is kind of the
mechanism that companies arestarting to take and really very
(45:02):
much in the figuring out mode.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Hi Lynn, thank you so much for your presentation.
I had a question.
I'm an attorney and I you knowthe law tends to, in the field
in general, tends to take a longtime to catch up with what the
rest of the world is doingsometimes.
I'm just curious, from yourperspective, in working with a
variety of different companiesacross the globe, I'm sure Can
(45:25):
you kind of give us just maybe awar story, if you will, of a
company who hasn't reallyembraced these ideas and this
new way of doing things and justkind of how that has impacted
then if you have that hasn'tbeen receptive to using services
like yours or the othertechnologies that are available
to really kind of fully embrace.
(45:46):
It's almost like after thepandemic and then it was like,
okay, everybody get back to workand let's just go back to
normal and the whole worldwasn't normal anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah, so I will say, too, that I think there's a
little bit of a catch-22 here.
So I think some companies andwe know there's been a load of
layoffs in the last year arekind of taking this as an
opportunity.
If they know that they aretrying to cut costs and they
need to reduce their workforce,that they're kind of saying,
(46:17):
okay, this is, we're doing this,it's the, it's my way, or the
highway, knowing that they needto cut workforce and saying this
is the mechanism that we'regoing to do that.
So I think we're seeing thatright first of all.
The second thing is, I thinkthe companies that haven't
leaned into this are reallystarting to see retention issues
(46:42):
and, with a war for talent,they're just not attracting the
right talent and the best talentBecause, as I said, people's
priorities are shifting right.
They care about wellness forthem, their family, their
lifestyle, and so when they'reevaluating jobs, I think there
was a study that recently cameout that said two-thirds of
(47:05):
workers would rather take a jobthat focused on lifestyle and
more well-being benefits than ona greater salary right, and so
I think it's something that theyreally need to lean into, and
I'm not going to name names, butthere are some large
corporations that have not, andthey've seen a really big
(47:29):
retention issue.
They've also seen pretty bad PRstunts right, which does not
look great on their company froma culture standpoint and I
think it's going to be.
Yeah, it's an issue.
Speaker 5 (47:45):
I have another question about your company
specifically.
Can you tell us more about?
You said you're starting towork with cities.
I'm just really interested inyour idea and kind of how you're
doing what you're doing.
It sounds really interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Appreciate it.
Yeah, so we started realizingabout eight months ago that what
we were doing to supportcorporations and their employees
right to help them takenewfound opportunities and
unfamiliar places, acclimate,find community was actually
really applicable to what a lotof cities and towns across the
(48:18):
US were starting to do postCOVID, which is there's 71
cities and towns just across theUS way more internationally
that are saying we are going toincentivize remote workers to
relocate to our location inorder to boost our economy and
help with a population deficit.
(48:39):
And so what we've been doingwith cities is we've been coming
in and saying we'll help youattract and retain that talent
so that when you pay them$10,000 to relocate here, plus
housing and everything else,that they'll actually stay
beyond that incentive period andthey'll contribute back.
And then also giving them somedata and insights from the human
(49:02):
side of things as to how youcan enhance their lives and your
program to make sure that theystay and have a transformative
experience in their new location.
Speaker 6 (49:16):
I have a question I'll just throw out there and it
kind of relates to Monica's.
You know the people expecttheir lawyers to be in an office
, but also that's sort of thecase for some nonprofit people.
You know there are certainindustries where they just sort
of expect you to be there andthe fake background of a pretend
office isn't going to do it forthem.
Do you get asked, or if whenyou do, from people who are
(49:39):
reluctant to engage withbusiness, people who are working
remotely, what do you tell themother than just you know the
general tropes of you knowretention and all of that, like
what are some of the benefits ofwhy it may even be more
valuable to work with folks inthose remote?
Speaker 2 (49:58):
situations, and you mean from a client standpoint,
like, yeah, yeah, I think itreally comes down to right
specific.
I think it comes down to thesame thing that businesses are
parlaying that doing right byways of employees and your
(50:19):
customers is also going to doright by business and there's
stats that show that.
And so I think there are someinstances where clients,
especially in some industries,will want to meet in person in
some regards.
So maybe they'll work remotelybut they'll take more business
trips.
But it also gives them there'salso benefits to that right.
(50:41):
If they're not paying foroffice space and they're working
remotely, they might be able todo more client visits in person
.
They may be able to be a littlebit more flexible with their
schedule because they're notgoing from meeting to meeting,
they're in front of Zoom.
So I think it's reallyunderstanding what some of the
(51:02):
benefits are and I don't thinkit personally doesn't make you
less reputable, right if you'renot in office, and I hope that
COVID really started to shiftthat narrative that you can be
just as productive in a homeoffice as you can be in a
corporate setting.
Speaker 6 (51:23):
I have one more kind of question and since it's a
group of all women, I feelcomfortable asking this.
So I work in nonprofit andoften with folks who are barely
making minimum wage or notmaking a ton of money.
They're using their and havehistorically used their PTO time
for personal taking care ofbusiness kind of things.
(51:45):
Now, as a woman and a mom, Ifind myself and I work with
colleagues who are taking theirwork from home time and really
just doing more mom stuff andit's not an issue, it's sort of
like what we do.
But when I'm working with malecolleagues who don't have that
same situation, how do you kindof level set the playing field,
(52:11):
so to speak, on a team whenthere's still that level of
disparity?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
I think that's something that unfortunately
goes on from a manager bymanager basis but needs to be
addressed and needs to andactually I might defer to Erica
on this because you might have alittle bit more insight from
the care economy standpoint asto how this is being addressed.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Well, I want to make sure that I understand your
question, amy.
So you're saying that womenworking from home we're still
doing all of the work, right?
So we're working whatever weneed needs to take care of at
the office and we're still doinghousehold management and care,
given duties, and all of thatand their unpaid labor?
Yeah, I mean, I think it'sshifting.
(52:54):
I think that you know, I thinkthat societal norms are shifting
a little bit.
I think that man are taken onmore of that.
I think we're destigmatizing thefact that man can contribute to
household management, to care,given duties.
I were certainly, as youmentioned, nowhere near where we
need to be.
I was joking with my husbandthe other day.
(53:17):
He was telling somebody that hefeels like he contributes a lot
and I'm like, yeah, but stillnot even 50-50.
Like, not even, and you don'tget a pat in the back just for
contributing.
So I mean, I think,unfortunately, this is why these
conversations matter, because Ithink that some of this, we as
managers can have conversations,but I think, more importantly,
(53:40):
as a society, need to have theseconversations because this is
more of a conversation with ourpartners, conversations with our
friends, conversations withmore women, you know, sharing
our stories and talking abouthow do you, you know, how do you
manage this, how do you havethese conversations.
I think we just need to do moreof that and then it's going to
(54:06):
be over time.
I don't think it's going tohappen right away.
I don't know if that answersyour questions.
I don't know if it's.
I made it even more sad but no,I think.
Speaker 6 (54:16):
I mean, I think more than anything, I'm just curious
how other people are thinkingabout that, because you know,
I'm I'm Gen X, 45 years old.
We're sort of in that cost thatwe have been for a long time of
everything shifting.
But I noticed that just acouple of years older than me
and beyond is a very differentperspective, and then below
there's a different perspective,and so it's just sort of how do
(54:38):
you navigate that?
And I find you know, I have hadsimilar conversations with my
partner and it's more like workcolleagues I find that are like
why aren't you so refreshed?
You worked from home yesterday?
And I'm like, yes, I worked mytwo jobs at the same time.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
I see what you mean.
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 5 (54:55):
Well, I mean you and I both know, especially in the
legal setting, I mean even infirms where men are given the
same, you know everybody you canwork remote, you can not,
whatever there, often, a lot oftimes I even have friends that
are, I mean they're using theirremote time to not do extra mom
stuff or home management orwhatever.
They're spending more time onthe golf course or wherever
(55:17):
right I mean, some of them are,and so I think it's a matter of
you know, like Erica was saying,you know just like obviously
setting those expectations.
But I totally understand whatyou're saying, because we're in
the same age group and I seethat too.
There's just these vastlydifferent views on how that
flexibility is utilized, frommen to women, between men and
(55:41):
women, and I think that Lynntouched on this right.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
I think that this is why it's very important and we
don't do it enough to take abreak and see how are we
aligning what's important to us,how do we want to work, when,
when, how, you know.
How do we want to contribute?
How do we align, you know, ourvalues and how we want to show
up and how we want to treat it,and what boundaries do we want
to set so that we can then holdourselves accountable?
(56:07):
We don't do that enough, Ithink we, because, you know, and
it's unfortunate, because we,as women, even when things are
going right, we're alwaysworried that we're going to drop
the ball and so but but I thinkthat that's why it's even more
important to Lynn's takeaway iswe need to make time to have
those conversations withourselves to see how we're doing
(56:30):
, how do we want to continue toshow up, and then what
boundaries are we going to puttogether to keep ourselves
accountable?
Right, because I mean, you know,some employers are going to do
all of these wonderful thingsthat we're talking about, or we
may implement all thesewonderful things we just talked
about as managers, but thateverybody's going to, and so
then, at that point, then itbecomes a personal choice, right
(56:51):
?
What do we want to do then,personally?
So if you enjoyed this episode,share it with a friend and
don't forget to leave us areview.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
apply to join our community ofprofessional women, all eager to
help you get there and staythere.
Go to wwwbestherco and applytoday.
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