October 19, 2024 • 45 mins
Discover the invisible barriers that hold women back from seizing their rightful places in political and civic spaces. In this episode, Andy Moore, founder of Let’s Fix This and Executive Director of the National Association of Nonpartisan Reformers, speaks with Mia Barros, founder of Voluntarios por Kamala, Blaire Postman, Founder of Cat Ladies for Kamala, and Cortney Tunis, former Executive Director of Pantsuit Nation. In it, they discuss the fear many women experience around political engagement, strategies to overcome that fear, and the importance of stepping into political conversations, especially when others cannot. The conversation also highlights the significance of local elections and civic engagement, regardless of swing state status and more.
Join us as Mia, Blaire, and Courtney— share their unique insights into overcoming societal pressures that often urge women to prioritize politeness over impactful dialogue. Special thanks to Andy Moore for moderating the session.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend, leave us a review and don't forget to hit the subscribe button. If you are ready to take your career and business to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and
founding member of Vest, anorganization connecting women
across industries, regions andcareer levels so that together
we can expedite the pipeline ofmore women in positions of power
and influence.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Vestor podcast, where we
(00:23):
explore the invisible barriersholding women back in the
workplace and share stories ofwomen building power
collectively.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I just want to normalize that, like I think all
of us are afraid of time.
I think all of us are afraid oftime and I think, as women,
many of us prefer to please, tobe liked, to avoid conflict.
I'm not saying that's all weare, but I think a lot of us
have been socialized that wayand so it can be easier to just
avoid these things.
For example, when I started toapproach people about voluntary
(00:59):
for Canada, I realized it's okayfor me to ask, it's okay for me
to tell and also say to them ifthis is not of interest to you,
that's a-okay, and just sort ofnormalizing that civic
engagement is productive,respectful, even if not everyone
agrees with our particularbrand of it, like that can,
that's all right your variousyou know identity privileges can
(01:29):
help you be the person that'sspeaking up, or means that you
know you're not in a place to dothat and want to step back.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And that's in part, why it's really important to
have coalitions and your closepeople that you're working with,
because if there's a topic thatis just really hits very close
to home and I'm not going to beable to have this conversation
in a way that is, you know,whatever measured or something
(01:54):
like that, then you know someoneelse can step forward and take
on that work.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
It is different.
When you're earning, you knowyou own your own business.
And so to Courtney's pointabout the privilege.
I don't have a two-year-old Ihave to feed and pay for to go
to certain things, so maybe it'seasier for me to take my risks.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
My two older kids play soccer.
I'm on the sidelines every weekand you hear so many
conversations that are reallyclose to being impactful and you
can feel the parents and Ithink in particular the mothers
not say the one thing that wouldmake this into a persuasive
conversation.
For the sake of politeness,right, keeping peace on the
(02:34):
sideline, the husbands, the dads, don't always have that same
filter.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
In this episode, andy Moore, founder of let's Fix
this and executive director ofthe National Association of
Nonpartisan Reformers, speaks toMia Barros, founder of
Voluntarios por Camela BlairPostman, founder of Cat Ladies
for Camela, and Courtney Tunis,former executive director of
Pantsuit Nation.
In it they discussed the fearmany women experience around
(03:05):
political engagement, strategiesto overcome that fear and the
importance of stepping intopolitical conversations,
especially when others cannot.
The conversation alsohighlights the significance of
local elections and civicengagement, regardless of swing
state status, and more For ourguests.
Full bios and show notes go towwwbestherco.
(03:29):
Forward slash podcast.
If you enjoy the episode, sharewith a friend and don't forget
to leave us a review.
This episode is brought to youby Vestor Ventures, a peer
network of professional womenand investment fund for women
led companies in the careeconomy and future of work.
To learn more, go towwwvestherco.
This episode was part of a moreintimate coaching session with
(03:55):
Vest members and has beenrepurposed to accommodate this
episode.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Mia and Blair, I'm going to start with you, because
it's about this election.
We're witnessing something thatis truly unprecedented, like a
massive wave of volunteerism andcommunity led initiatives that
are shaping the politicallandscape in ways that we
haven't really seen before, andnot least in a long time.
A lot of these were built onthe powerful groundwork laid by
(04:24):
the Win With Black Women group.
Could you each, mia maybe I'llhave you go first and then Blair
can you tell us about how andwhy you decided to get involved?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Absolutely.
I just want to say thank youall so much for being here.
Thank you, erica for invitingme, thank you, andy for
moderating and, to the otherpanelists as well, very excited
to be here.
So I'll just give you a littlebit of the background story for
Voluntarios por Cámara.
We were founded to protect andempower Spanish-speaking voters
and, of course, to help electVice President Kamala Harris and
(04:57):
Governor Tim Walz, and theorigin story of our group and
why I wanted to do this goesback to 2020.
I was a new mom, it was thepandemic, and I decided to
volunteer on the Spanish side ofthe National Voter Assistance
Hotline, and right after Ijoined in the first week of
October, the hotlines started toreceive hundreds, if not
thousands, of calls from votersin Spanish, and so I was getting
(05:20):
emails that represented avoicemail, like every minute, of
people that needed help, and,as it turned out, those calls
were coming from Florida,arizona, georgia, because voter
registration was about to closein those states on October 5th.
And that experience really lefta mark on me, because by the
time the team was able to get usall the voicemails and we were
(05:41):
able to get back to everybody,we had to tell them they missed
their deadline to register tovote for that election and it
really broke my heart, reallyfor two reasons.
The first is how can we have asystem in which millions of our
fellow citizens don't have thetools they need to exercise
their constitutional right tovote Like that just is wrong.
And second, these are folksthat wanted to vote.
(06:03):
We didn't need to convince themand they were calling a
Democratic hotline and,unfortunately, I don't know what
else to conclude, except thatthe message they probably took
away was that no one caredenough to be there to help them
or call them back in times wherethey could vote in the election
.
So this year in which theelection, as all of us know, is
(06:24):
just crucially important asimportant as 2020, if not more
for all of our futures and, Ithink, a year in which it's
really become clear to everyonethat the Latino vote is an
extremely, extremely importantpart of our electorate and
likely to be the decisive votein our election I just thought I
at least want to try to makesure that doesn't happen again.
(06:46):
So I spoke to my husband andtook a bit of a leap and decided
to focus on this for a certainperiod of time, and now, you
know I'm excited to say that ourvolunteers, including the
amazing Erica Lucas, will besupporting Spanish-speaking in
the swing on the spring statehotlines, um, and also
(07:06):
protecting the vote on theground as poll monitors and poll
observers.
Designated agent, designatedagents and more Um.
So that was kind of what reallypushed me to get involved, that
experience, um, and you knowit's.
It's really exciting to see allthe energy around getting
involved this year.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
But that was my particular story Awesome.
Thank you so much, blair.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you to Erica and Andy andeveryone at Vest I.
You know, the first time Ireally volunteered in a
substantial way for an electionwas in 2020.
And you know I don't I try tokeep this on the down low, but
I'm a recovering lawyer and I'vebeen out of that business for
(07:53):
way longer than I was ever in it.
And in 2020, I signed up for Ithink they called it voter
assistance or election integrityand I trained and went to
Philadelphia I was living in DCand I live in Baltimore and work
in DC and went to Philadelphiaand stayed at the polling
station I was assigned to.
Actually, I was like, are yousure I haven't been a lawyer for
(08:15):
like 20 years?
And they're like, no, no,that's good.
And you know we had a lot oftraining and we were there on
site in the unlikely event,honestly, on site, in the
unlikely event, honestly, thatsomething really substantial
happened and, at the very least,we were a person with a hotline
number to what they call theboiler room who could level up
(08:35):
real problems that couldn't beresolved on site.
A lot of them are notnecessarily malicious of intent.
Sometimes it's a simplemisunderstanding of human poll
workers and voters who don'tunderstand when you can cast a
provisional ballot and what thatmeans, and lots of other rules.
And, as we all know now, thoserules are even more so lately,
constantly in flux and changingall the time.
(08:55):
So, whatever they were backwhen I did this in 2020, I'm
sure they're obsolete in someway now.
And, of course, I got mypostcards and everything else
and that election, after a lotof, frankly, trauma and distress
for a lot of us, I believe,went the right way, thankfully,
and we're better for it, and Ihad gotten my postcards and I'm
(09:17):
like I'll probably sign up forthe voter thing again.
And then, first of all, it wasso exciting.
I think we all have yet tofully comprehend the amazing
happenstance of Joe Bidenstepping aside and also
endorsing Kamala Harris, and Ithink that's going to be
something we're going to needsome historical perspective on.
(09:39):
But I was so excited when shecame on board and I was always
looking to do more because, eventhough I haven't been in
politics, I've been a littleadjacent.
I used to be a bureau speakeragent for former political and
media people.
This answer is way too long.
I didn't feel like.
I never felt like I was doingenough, but I didn't know how to
(10:00):
get a handhold on it.
And if JD Vance had been evenslightly less of a total jerk
and hadn't just been so openly,blatantly and so comfortable
being hostile towards women ofevery walk of life?
But starting with thesechildless cat ladies and I
(10:21):
realize you know I'm a childlesscat lady by every definition of
the word.
But it's not about that.
It's about othering people andthis is just an easy sort of bad
joke way to get a toehold in ofpeople being numbed to the
othering of their other fellowcitizens in this country and
(10:42):
their rights and theirimportance and how we all have
to take care of each other.
And I got the URL that day andthe Instagram the day that he
stepped aside and endorsedKamala Harris, and we've had
some helpers along the way, butI'm largely a one-person show
and it's been.
(11:05):
Without getting into detail,this answer is already way too
long.
It has been the best thing I'veever been involved with because
of the amazing people I've met,and I really believe we're
going to win this election, eventhough I'm nervous.
But somehow, even if we don't,I don't feel like I would
totally lose faith anymorebecause of all these.
(11:26):
I know that I'm not the onlyone, and I know that there are
other people I'm with, so that'sthat's how we started.
Sorry for the length.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
That's great.
I, politics aside, I do thinkhistorically, we'll look back on
this election Everyone who'shere represents PR or comms in
any way and look at some massivemissteps on political messaging
by certain individuals, forsure.
Courtney, a similar questionfor you you launched Pantsuit
(11:56):
Nation in 2016, which is one ofthe largest communities for
mobilizing millions to becomemore civically engaged, and
later on, after joining forces,you became the head of
activation for supermajority.
How have you seen the landscapeevolve since 2016, in
particular, regarding womenfemale voters and this unity
(12:19):
call started by win with Blackwomen and then followed by other
women led groups.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Well, it's been really, uh, interesting to not
be with Pansy Nation orSupermajority right now, um, you
know, since 2020 and kind ofwatch everything happen.
And what's most, um,interesting to me is really the
landscape is evolving, in partbecause of all of the groundwork
(12:48):
that was laid formalorganizations like Run for
Something that's actuallybringing people in to run for
office, to organizations likePantsuit Nation, which were
(13:08):
really about getting people toengage with each other and
recognize their own power whenit comes to civic engagement,
and then, once their kind ofempathy for one another had
really been cultivated, thentake the step to actually do the
work that makes our countrybetter for, you know, our
neighbors and ourselves, and sosome of what you know was
(13:33):
necessary.
It's funny to see some of theparallels.
So, for example, pantsuitNation blew up over the course
of two weeks, you know, wentfrom zero people to roughly 3
million people in about twoweeks, and Facebook was
scrambling to get everything inline.
(13:54):
To figure it out, we had theseamazing people that were just
working almost 24 seven to stopthe thing from crashing, to make
sure that everything wasworking, and that exact same
thing just happened with Zoom,when all of the when, the size
of the win with Black Women Callgot so large that they needed
to, you know, react in real timeand create these tools that are
(14:20):
now, you know, equipped tohandle these extremely large
organizing calls.
And even organizing on Zoom wassomething that started for the
2020 election bringing peopletogether, doing trainings for it
was really, you know, kind of afunction of the pandemic.
You know, doing trainings fortext banking or phone banking
(14:43):
had to happen over Zoom, and sorecognizing that this is a tool
and then the tool really blowingup is pretty amazing to see.
I think, also, the Roe decisionreally changed the way that
women saw themselves reflectedin what's happening on the
(15:06):
national level.
I think we all always knew thatour, you know, personal rights
were at stake, but when thatactually fell, the reality of
that was, you know, even forthose of us who are tracking
this, who are on the kind ofside of the percentage of the
(15:26):
population that keeps track ofall of these things on a regular
basis, it was still just anabsolute gut punch, and so a lot
of people began telling theirstories, and this was really a
key element of the PantsuitNation philosophy that it's
through storytelling that wereally understand what is at
stake when it comes to theseissues.
And you know, at the DNC yousaw all of those women and their
(15:50):
male counterparts telling theirstories about reproductive
issues, and that's the way thatwe really understand what's at
stake.
What's at stake, and so there'sthat storytelling kind of
through line and then Roe comingdown, I think really encouraged
more women to see themselves inthe reality of this election.
(16:13):
And the final thing I'll say isyou know, one thing I think is
really important and what'sreally exciting when something
like Cat Ladies for Kamalastarts or Voluntario Support
Kamala, is that Win With BlackWomen had been having that call
for years I mean I think eightyears or something and so they
were ready when the time came.
(16:37):
All of that infrastructure wasthere and what they needed was
just to have more people comeand more people care and be part
of it and the invitation go outto more people.
What's going to be the nextcatalyst for what we now see is
(17:08):
all of these organizations thathave raised so much money, that
have engaged all of these people.
So I think you know if there'sa lesson in all of this and this
speaks actually to what youwere talking about, blair, that
you know, no matter the outcome,there's a sense of kind of hope
.
That's there.
That's a little bit different,even as it feels, like you know,
extra, extra important that theelection, you know, doesn't go
(17:30):
in a Trump direction.
That people know how toorganize the average person
knows how to organize in adifferent way than they did
before and there's a sense oforganization sort of coming to
your door rather than youneeding to go out and find it.
That, I think, is empowering alot of people to become more
(17:54):
active for the first time.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
That's great.
Also, courtney didn't know, butshe was an excellent segue into
what I'm going to ask next,Because what I kind of heard all
of you saying is there's twolevels here, like in your
stories.
There's the raising awareness,gaining awareness of the public.
But then what do you do withthat?
How do you organize that?
Because if you just have a lotof followers, you're just a meme
(18:19):
account, right that?
Because it's, if you just havea lot of followers, you're just
a meme account, right?
The magic is, how do we createopportunities for engagement and
for action at the individuallevel?
And so, on the survey thatErica read earlier, it said that
67% of Vest members share thatthey still get most of their
political news from traditionalmedia and then social media,
(18:42):
their political news fromtraditional media and then
social media, podcasts, onlinestuff, kind of going on down.
And this strikes me as one ofthose big shifts where, even
eight years ago, even four yearsago, the way in which Americans
received information and fromwhom, has shifted, in some cases
majorly, some cases maybe justa minor shift, but we are much
(19:04):
more based in like informationsilos now.
And so how do you all and thisis open to anybody, but how do
you see the roles of traditionalmedia and non-traditional media
evolving this year as comparedto 2020 or 2016?
Speaker 4 (19:24):
I am certainly the newbie of these group of experts
and just to reiterate, win WithBlack Women leads all of us to
this day, through the election,through, hopefully, many years
to come, so just wanted to makesure everyone understood how
that being on those calls everyweek for eight years really made
(19:46):
the rest of us possible,because I am learning every
single day what to do.
And what really struck me, Andy, is I say this all the time we
have a lot of followers.
We have more followers thansome of these grassroots groups,
and what I've told people isthat if we don't get people
actually taking action, it'smeaningless.
It's meaningless.
(20:06):
And so, for example and I can'teven name all the different
grassroots and affinity groupswho have helped us in addition
to Win With Black Women but, forexample, we are going to be
doing a caravan to Penn, as theycall them, to Pennsylvania, to
meet cat ladies there weekendafter this for two days of
canvassing in York County,pennsylvania.
(20:29):
Everyone's welcome and you cango to their website and sign up
for different swing states,different shifts, different
dates.
We are doing phone bankingevery week.
We had to learn how to do thesethings.
We had to get help from otherpeople and when it comes to the
information silos, I think thebest thing that a group like
(20:50):
ours can do that has sort ofthis wide but maybe not deep
reach with our followers not yetis to encourage them to learn
with us.
So, for example, I try toregularly express in our
different posts and videos andemails that, look, I'm going to
(21:14):
do this phone bank.
You know, when I did my firstphone bank Two weeks ago, here's
what I learned.
Here's what I was scared of.
Here's what's not scary aboutit, or as scary as you might
think.
Don't want to do our thing.
Here's a list of our website oflike 20 other things you can do
with other groups.
You don't have to do our thing.
Here's some.
Let me introduce you to theseother groups.
Or maybe someplace that has a.
(21:34):
I'm one person.
I'm in the mid Atlantic.
I'm not going to be in personat a Nevada canvassing group.
Here's maybe some people youcan get in touch with there.
Learn with us, learn with us.
But also don't take the factthat you don't know everything
as a hindrance, because thetruth is most people have to
learn this by doing it and, Ithink, getting that information.
(21:57):
I work my day job is intraditional and streaming media.
I work for a large mediacompany in advertising and you
have to be everywhere, sort ofin one way or another, and one
of the ways that differentgrassroots groups can help is
some of these groups.
Geeks for Hairs are great onTwitch.
I'm not going to be on Twitchguys, it's probably not going to
(22:18):
happen, I mean not in ameaningful way in the next two
weeks.
You know what?
I'm not going to be on Twitchguys.
It's probably not going tohappen, not in a meaningful way,
in the next two weeks.
You know what I'm saying.
I'm jumping on something withthem and they're going to be on
Twitch and they're going to doall the work and I'm going to
say hi or whatever.
I'm not going to be able toexecute everything, but I'm
going to do a few things as wellas we can with our resources
(22:41):
resources and then I'm going toeither push the our cat ladies
who are interested in otherthings than what we're giving to
other places, other resources,or and or I'm going to hop on
with other people who are goingto help me get my word out
through other channels.
But you have to be it's veryfragmented and you kind of got
to be everywhere, but you can'tdo it by yourself.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Courtney or Mia?
How do you see the roles oftraditional media and newer
media shifting this year?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
about TikTok and how there are people there that are
speaking in plain language andexplaining things to people that
you know.
This is what this means.
You know the news is reportingon this.
Here's what that means, or?
Have you heard this story?
I'm going to do like a fivepart video on it and it becomes
almost like a long form versionof understanding what's
happening in the world.
Um, I'm not like.
(23:42):
I I'm very skeptical also of,like all social media because of
its potential ill, but that issays the woman who you know ran
a giant Facebook group.
But, um, the uh.
What is so interesting to me is,again, it's about meeting
people where they are, and andit's about getting people,
getting the information in frontof people, and maybe that is
(24:05):
through, you know, the we talk.
The Call Her Daddy podcast, forexample, was a place where a lot
of people just are, and nowKamala Harris is there, and if
you're on TikTok and you'rescrolling, you know you're going
to find these people that aretalking about various issues,
and I think it's a.
I think it's a reallyinteresting combination and I
(24:28):
think that there are some reallystrong creators out there that
they themselves are doing areally good mix of bringing in
traditional media, introducingthe story, breaking it down,
that kind of thing, so I thinkthat that is really good.
On the other hand, there's alot of crazies and a lot of
people that don't know whatthey're talking about and a lot
of misinformation that's comingfrom a similar place, and I do
(24:51):
think that you know theresponsibility of the platforms
to be giving people theknowledge to know like this is
AI created?
This is a refuted topic, youknow.
Here's some other articlesabout that.
All of that technology thathelps you understand and kind of
(25:12):
know how to consume media in amore intelligent way, I think is
really important and that'ssort of a really big learning
curve that we're all goingthrough right now with the
changes in technology.
That is going to continue toevolve the way that we interact
with traditional versusnon-traditional media.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
I have a friend that works in traditional media as a
TV journalist here in Oklahomaand then Detroit, boston.
He recently got laid off anddid what anybody does, where he
started a podcast and a substack and is now doing his own
thing.
But he relies on legacy media,as it is, to report news and
then he, like, synthesizes thatand does his own little nugget.
(25:54):
And I trust him.
I think it's great.
But he and I've had theconversation of if you grow this
, you will become the trustedsource People won't, even you'll
be disconnected from, or thereader, the listener will be
disconnected from the originalsource and while I may trust him
, there's thousands of otherpeople doing that.
Right, and that's what you said, courtney is that suddenly the
opportunity for disinformationor even just like spin that
(26:19):
might be subtle at first canquickly spin out of control and
I think that gives a lot ofpeople some pause.
And all of this kind of goes intogether with heightened
polarization.
Sometimes talking aboutpolitics being perceived as
political can feel dangerous orcontentious.
The news last week about anindividual being a plot being
(26:45):
foiled for a mass shooting onelection day a guy from here in
Oklahoma has made it hit home, Ithink for a lot of us, and
certainly for many women,including those in the vest
community, worry about politicalretribution and how it might
impact their business or theirspouse's business or their kids
(27:05):
at school or any number ofthings.
So this is really a questionfor anybody or everybody there.
But how do we combat that?
How do we foster healthy,productive political
conversations?
I feel like there's adifference between political
conversations and conversationsabout politics, sometimes right
(27:27):
Like it's a tent issue,especially with folks who might
hold different viewpoints.
What advice do you have for theaudience?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So this is a really difficult topic and certainly
not something that I think maybewe're going to solve in this
moment here, but what I will sayis that I think it really comes
down to your individualdecision about how you're going
(28:04):
to move in the world when thishappens, and that you know we're
I think each of us is aware ofthe way that one person's energy
can either escalate ordeescalate a situation, and you
can choose to be thedeescalating energy, even if
you're angry, even if you're,you know, insulted, and I'm
(28:24):
saying, I'm saying this, I never, I don't always do this, so
there's times when I am like, no, this is the land in the sand,
I'm not going to give you grace.
But it is about individualenergy, and one thing I think is
really interesting to have asan example right now is the Liz
Cheney Kamala Harrisinteractions and conversations,
(28:44):
that these are two people whoare really on opposite sides of
the political conversation buthave decided, like we're not
just being cordial, we areactually coming together and
standing on our common ground,and this is what it looks like
to have those conversations in aessentially civil way, that
(29:06):
this is not about like slinginginsults back and forth at each
other.
This isn't about, you know,being a sort of a lightning rod
for, I don't know, memeing orsomething.
This is about standing in frontof people, recognizing that
we're on different sides of thespectrum, but this is the way
(29:27):
that we've come together and Ithink that that's just a really
important visual that we haveright now, as compared to what
we're seeing in a lot of otherplaces.
But, when it comes down to it,a lot of it is about individual
decision making.
In those moments when thingsget heated and that's difficult,
because sometimes you shouldn'thave to be the person that is
(29:53):
the bigger person and you canmake your own decision about it.
But when it comes down to it, Ireally think it's about a
individual decision.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
And if I could just piggyback on Courtney, I think
the Liz Cheney, kamala Harrisvisual and reality is exactly
perfect.
And Kamala Harris I'm going tonot get this quote exactly right
but talks about I may learn andevolve my understanding of
(30:27):
issues and details and lifeexperiences that other people
have that I don't have, which iswhy they may think differently
than me.
But I'm not going to compromisemy values and it is an
individual thing.
I, you know, I work for a bigcompany that works with other
people from big companies and Ican't always say the first thing
that comes to my mind in someconversations.
(30:49):
But I also keep in mind what myown values are and I'm not
going to and in my discussions Ican have appropriately polite,
convivial discussions withpeople who think differently.
But I want to make sure I'm notcompromising my values in that
(31:11):
process, whatever that means forme personally, and I don't
personally believe that's goingto interfere with my work.
But if I'm prepared and I hadto be prepared when I took on
this more public-ish role withthe Cat Ladies is that if I feel
like I am acting appropriatelyin the space and someone just
(31:32):
finds out that I do this andthey don't like it.
Well, that's not something Idon't feel that's inappropriate,
and so I just I try to alwaysbe understanding and open-minded
and convivial, without but I amnot going to compromise my
values.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I just want to normalize that, like I think all
of us are afraid of time and Ithink, as women, you know, many
of us prefer to please, to beliked to avoid conflict.
I'm not saying that's all weare, but I think a lot of us
have been socialized that wayand so it can be easier to just
avoid these things.
And so for me, in doing thiswork, some of it has just been
(32:13):
trying to really go back to whatmatters to me and be a little
bit brave about it.
Matters to me and be a littlebit brave about it, like the
same way I would tell mydaughter and you know, believing
that this is right, believingin the urgency.
And then I've found that I, overtime, I've become more and more
afraid of engaging inrespectful discourse, and that's
(32:34):
bad, we have to move away fromthat.
And so, for example, when Istarted to approach people about
voluntario pro canada, Irealized like it's okay for me
to ask, it's okay for me to tellthem and also say to them if
this is not of interest to you,that's a-okay, and just sort of
normalizing that civicengagement is productive,
respectful, even if not everyoneagrees with our particular
(32:56):
brand of it, like that can,that's all right, and talking
about these issues has become sotaboo and it's really dangerous
that it's become so taboo.
So, you know, I think, justtrying to get a little bit more
comfortable with doing it in arespectful way, of course, not
sort of violating your valuesthat is obviously not good but
(33:20):
also, like we heard aboutthere's changing Kamala Harris
like trying to find points incommon with folks who do see
things differently, so that,even if we disagree, it's in a
way that still can feelproductive, like we're
connecting as humans, we'rebeing, you know, we're
humanizing the other, we're,we're being social with the
other.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
It's not easy and it is very scary, but I think
sometimes these interactions,can go better than we expect If
we can put the fear like alittle know identity privileges
can help you be the personthat's speaking up or means that
(34:11):
you know you're not in aplace's really important to have
coalitions and your closepeople that you're working with,
because if there's a topic thatis just really hits very close
to home and I'm not going to beable to have this conversation
(34:34):
in a way that is, you know,whatever measured or something
like that then you know someoneelse can step forward and take
on that work.
And that's actually a lot ofwhat you know we would do in
Pantsuit Nation when it comes tomoderation.
That you know if this, if hey,are you okay in there?
(34:54):
Like, do you need any help?
What can I do with?
Like, how can I support you?
And sometimes you know it wouldjust be like today's not the day
for me to you know, get inthere and talk about something
that's really difficult for meto engage with.
That you know on a personallevel.
So I think there's a piece, too, about recognizing when you are
(35:15):
the person with the privilegeand can step in and be the voice
that is more moderated, butkeep like, bring that other
person into the room with youand make sure that their needs,
their rights, all of that isrepresented.
I think that's a really keything and something that we.
(35:36):
It's something that you sort ofhave to practice doing, like
reminding yourself you know whenyou have power, when your power
is compromised and when to useit.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
And I just said just to acknowledge, jumping over
into the chat a little bit and,yeah, it is different.
When you're earning, you knowyou own your own business, or
when I I now live in Baltimore,I work in DC, I have a base pay
that goes along with my position.
That is very different than theeight years I spent in a very
small city in southeastern NorthCarolina doing the same work,
(36:09):
where I worked at 100%commission and had to go out and
talk to very local businessowners in the greater Wilmington
North Carolina area, in thegreater Wilmington North
Carolina area, um, and you know,10, 12, 14 years ago, and uh,
it's, it is different.
And so to Courtney's pointabout the privilege.
That's, um, that's true, that'sreal.
(36:30):
I, for example I mean you jokeabout childless cat ladies I
don't have a two-year-old, Ihave to feed and pay for it to
go to certain things.
So maybe it's easier for me totake my risks.
And you know, I now do have aposition where I'm not on.
I have, we all have things wehave to do to earn our pay, but
it's not the same thing as,literally, where I used to work.
(36:52):
They called it you only eatwhat you kill.
But, the, the, the.
The fact that now I have thisposition is it became this year,
but starting in 2020, inparticular, it became to feel
for me and the position that Ihad, frankly but impossibly
(37:13):
immoral for me to not takeadvantage, to not give
everything I could give, becausethere were so many people who
were not in the position, whowere going to be in a position
where they might feel moreretribution, where they might
feel more danger to theirpersonal, economic and family
(37:36):
security or their personalwell-being, their physical
security.
So I just want to acknowledgeeverything going on in the chat,
and Courtney too, because it'sreal.
It's real.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
Yeah, thanks.
I love the energy around thisanswer and I have a similar
experience that I'll share realquickly.
And then we're getting close ontime.
But you know, my two older kidsplay soccer.
I'm on the sidelines every weekand you hear so many
conversations that are reallyclose to being impactful and you
(38:09):
can feel the parents and Ithink in particular the mothers
not say the one thing that wouldmake this into a persuasive
conversation.
For the sake of politeness,keeping peace on the sideline,
the husbands, the dads, don'talways have that same filter.
They'll stand off to the sideand watch a football game on
(38:30):
their phone and just observingit, the dynamics there, is
interesting and I think I'm verysympathetic to the massive
amount of emotions thateverybody brings in my
experience, particularly womento this election and the issues
that affect their household thatyou may feel unable to fully
(38:50):
express.
My wife, I know, will go to thecar and scream by herself
sometimes just to get it out,because she can't say the thing
out loud she really wants to out, because she can't say the
thing out loud, she really wantsto, and so I think, really
excellent feedback on tacticsand ways to create that space
when necessary.
So we've got, we'll say, likeseven minutes left, I think, and
(39:10):
I want to make sure that wehave some time to talk about
local stuff.
Right, we talk a lot about thepresidential election.
It certainly captivates theheadlines in the media, but all
of us have the opportunity tothink and act locally.
In places like Oklahoma, wherewe're not a swing state and we
might feel left out, there arestill ways that we can be
(39:35):
involved.
And so, to each of you, whatstrategies would you recommend
and how would you highlight theimportance of like state and
local elections, maybe incontrast, those national things,
and how can VEST members takeaction in their community and go
ahead?
Blair?
Speaker 4 (40:10):
But I'd say, boy, we've all learned how important
your state legislators are indealing with things like women's
health care, voting rights,even how they're implementing,
sometimes you know, funds thatthey could get from the federal
government, and when you're in astate that's not a purple state
or, you know, not, acompetitive state.
Primaries your primaries, arereally important.
That's what comes to mind forme.
Primaries, your primaries, arereally important, that's what
comes to mind for me.
But vote the best that you have.
Vote every time, and even ifyou don't think any of your
choices are perfect.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Thank you, Mia.
I think you were going to keepin mind is that you know, many
of our national leaders werelocal leaders.
You know Barack Obama was astate senator, Kamala Harris was
a district attorney, Tim Walzwas a local organizer for his
hometown, for John Curry, andthen became a representative in
Congress.
So you know, by voting now, byinvesting in local politicians
(40:59):
now, you are helping to createthe leaders of the future and
you're helping them to build theskills to become the kinds of
leaders that we want for all ofus at a national scale.
So there's lots of I mean,there's many, many ways in which
local elections are cruciallyimportant, but that's another
one that people don't alwaysthink about.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I would also add that .
So ballot ready is a reallygreat resource to prepare for
voting, and part of what Ireally love about it is that you
can see where you're the peoplewho represent you stand on
various issues.
It gives you a betterunderstanding of what the heck
(41:46):
you're voting for in these downballot races, and I know that
for many years I went into thevoting booth like who is this?
And I'm just like, yeah, I'malso from Massachusetts, so it's
a little bit.
Sometimes there's just one nameand it has a D next to it and
you're like, okay, vote for thatperson.
But every once in a while thereis an actual, you know,
important difference between howpeople feel about specific
(42:10):
subjects that you care about inyour local election, and I find
Ballot Ready a really usefulplace to just get to.
You know, what have they saidabout this, what are their
points about this, what's ontheir website about this?
So that is, I think, justthat's a resource that I share
pretty often with people whenthey say you know, I don't
really know what's going on inmy state Because I think, my
(42:31):
goodness, our state websiteslike so archaic and difficult to
navigate and like all that theywant is just like I don't know.
I just feel like I go there topay a parking ticket or
something, but it's that isreally helpful.
The other thing is that, again,because the pandemic kind of
created all of these differentopportunities that allow us to
(42:53):
connect with people outside ofour state without leaving our
homes, that, you know, phonebanking is something that you
can do no matter where you are,and you can call in to different
states.
I know that I'm, you know,sending vote forward letters in
to swing states from, you know,my little blue Massachusetts,
(43:14):
and so there are more ways thatpeople have created who
recognize that this is adifficult situation that a lot
of the country finds themselvesin, where they feel like it's
not enough for me to just vote,because I know the way that my
state is going to go.
The other thing that I think isinteresting is that over the
course of certainly my lifetime,we've seen states move from you
(43:37):
know, red states to purplestates.
States become swing states.
Swing states become, you know,entrenched in one color and so
kind of flexing your muscles andbeing ready when your state
might suddenly actually be inplay or there's an important
seat in your state.
That's in play is, I think,just an important thing to keep
in the back of your mind that,like I'm not doing this, it's
(43:58):
not a useless thing to engage inthis, these civic practices,
because it could be on mydoorstep, you know, in the next
election.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Could I just add one other thing that that I thought
of you know I just want toadvocate.
I just want to say that I thinkas women, we're just constantly
feeling like we're not doingenough, we aren't enough and
that can make us avoid things attimes because we just get
overwhelmed.
And I just want to emphasizethat one hour is enough.
You know, in one hour you canphone bank.
In one hour you can do a bootcamp about best practices for
(44:30):
advocating and promoting onsocial media.
You can also recruit, you know,five volunteers in one hour.
So I think for all of us, we'reconstantly feeling that pressure
, like we have to remindourselves that we can't let
perfect be the enemy of the good.
And you know, if we can putaside the self-judgment and sort
of trust that anything wecontribute is positive and
making things better, we havemore room and more space to just
(44:52):
do the even just a small amountthat we can do, because many of
us are in seasons that arealive, but that's all we can do,
a small amount but that's stillamazing, and so I just wanted
to add that in really quickly.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
If you enjoyed this episode, share with a friend and
don't forget to leave us areview.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
apply to join our community ofprofessional women all eager to
help you get there and staythere.
Go to wwwbestherco and applytoday.
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and
founding member of Vest, anorganization connecting women
across industries, regions andcareer levels so that together
we can expedite the pipeline ofmore women in positions of power
and influence.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Vestor podcast, where we
(00:23):
explore the invisible barriersholding women back in the
workplace and share stories ofwomen building power
collectively.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I just want to normalize that, like I think all
of us are afraid of time.
I think all of us are afraid oftime and I think, as women,
many of us prefer to please, tobe liked, to avoid conflict.
I'm not saying that's all weare, but I think a lot of us
have been socialized that wayand so it can be easier to just
avoid these things.
For example, when I started toapproach people about voluntary
(00:59):
for Canada, I realized it's okayfor me to ask, it's okay for me
to tell and also say to them ifthis is not of interest to you,
that's a-okay, and just sort ofnormalizing that civic
engagement is productive,respectful, even if not everyone
agrees with our particularbrand of it, like that can,
that's all right your variousyou know identity privileges can
(01:29):
help you be the person that'sspeaking up, or means that you
know you're not in a place to dothat and want to step back.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And that's in part, why it's really important to
have coalitions and your closepeople that you're working with,
because if there's a topic thatis just really hits very close
to home and I'm not going to beable to have this conversation
in a way that is, you know,whatever measured or something
(01:54):
like that, then you know someoneelse can step forward and take
on that work.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
It is different.
When you're earning, you knowyou own your own business.
And so to Courtney's pointabout the privilege.
I don't have a two-year-old Ihave to feed and pay for to go
to certain things, so maybe it'seasier for me to take my risks.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
My two older kids play soccer.
I'm on the sidelines every weekand you hear so many
conversations that are reallyclose to being impactful and you
can feel the parents and Ithink in particular the mothers
not say the one thing that wouldmake this into a persuasive
conversation.
For the sake of politeness,right, keeping peace on the
(02:34):
sideline, the husbands, the dads, don't always have that same
filter.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
In this episode, andy Moore, founder of let's Fix
this and executive director ofthe National Association of
Nonpartisan Reformers, speaks toMia Barros, founder of
Voluntarios por Camela BlairPostman, founder of Cat Ladies
for Camela, and Courtney Tunis,former executive director of
Pantsuit Nation.
In it they discussed the fearmany women experience around
(03:05):
political engagement, strategiesto overcome that fear and the
importance of stepping intopolitical conversations,
especially when others cannot.
The conversation alsohighlights the significance of
local elections and civicengagement, regardless of swing
state status, and more For ourguests.
Full bios and show notes go towwwbestherco.
(03:29):
Forward slash podcast.
If you enjoy the episode, sharewith a friend and don't forget
to leave us a review.
This episode is brought to youby Vestor Ventures, a peer
network of professional womenand investment fund for women
led companies in the careeconomy and future of work.
To learn more, go towwwvestherco.
This episode was part of a moreintimate coaching session with
(03:55):
Vest members and has beenrepurposed to accommodate this
episode.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Mia and Blair, I'm going to start with you, because
it's about this election.
We're witnessing something thatis truly unprecedented, like a
massive wave of volunteerism andcommunity led initiatives that
are shaping the politicallandscape in ways that we
haven't really seen before, andnot least in a long time.
A lot of these were built onthe powerful groundwork laid by
(04:24):
the Win With Black Women group.
Could you each, mia maybe I'llhave you go first and then Blair
can you tell us about how andwhy you decided to get involved?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Absolutely.
I just want to say thank youall so much for being here.
Thank you, erica for invitingme, thank you, andy for
moderating and, to the otherpanelists as well, very excited
to be here.
So I'll just give you a littlebit of the background story for
Voluntarios por Cámara.
We were founded to protect andempower Spanish-speaking voters
and, of course, to help electVice President Kamala Harris and
(04:57):
Governor Tim Walz, and theorigin story of our group and
why I wanted to do this goesback to 2020.
I was a new mom, it was thepandemic, and I decided to
volunteer on the Spanish side ofthe National Voter Assistance
Hotline, and right after Ijoined in the first week of
October, the hotlines started toreceive hundreds, if not
thousands, of calls from votersin Spanish, and so I was getting
(05:20):
emails that represented avoicemail, like every minute, of
people that needed help, and,as it turned out, those calls
were coming from Florida,arizona, georgia, because voter
registration was about to closein those states on October 5th.
And that experience really lefta mark on me, because by the
time the team was able to get usall the voicemails and we were
(05:41):
able to get back to everybody,we had to tell them they missed
their deadline to register tovote for that election and it
really broke my heart, reallyfor two reasons.
The first is how can we have asystem in which millions of our
fellow citizens don't have thetools they need to exercise
their constitutional right tovote Like that just is wrong.
And second, these are folksthat wanted to vote.
(06:03):
We didn't need to convince themand they were calling a
Democratic hotline and,unfortunately, I don't know what
else to conclude, except thatthe message they probably took
away was that no one caredenough to be there to help them
or call them back in times wherethey could vote in the election
.
So this year in which theelection, as all of us know, is
(06:24):
just crucially important asimportant as 2020, if not more
for all of our futures and, Ithink, a year in which it's
really become clear to everyonethat the Latino vote is an
extremely, extremely importantpart of our electorate and
likely to be the decisive votein our election I just thought I
at least want to try to makesure that doesn't happen again.
(06:46):
So I spoke to my husband andtook a bit of a leap and decided
to focus on this for a certainperiod of time, and now, you
know I'm excited to say that ourvolunteers, including the
amazing Erica Lucas, will besupporting Spanish-speaking in
the swing on the spring statehotlines, um, and also
(07:06):
protecting the vote on theground as poll monitors and poll
observers.
Designated agent, designatedagents and more Um.
So that was kind of what reallypushed me to get involved, that
experience, um, and you knowit's.
It's really exciting to see allthe energy around getting
involved this year.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
But that was my particular story Awesome.
Thank you so much, blair.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you to Erica and Andy andeveryone at Vest I.
You know, the first time Ireally volunteered in a
substantial way for an electionwas in 2020.
And you know I don't I try tokeep this on the down low, but
I'm a recovering lawyer and I'vebeen out of that business for
(07:53):
way longer than I was ever in it.
And in 2020, I signed up for Ithink they called it voter
assistance or election integrityand I trained and went to
Philadelphia I was living in DCand I live in Baltimore and work
in DC and went to Philadelphiaand stayed at the polling
station I was assigned to.
Actually, I was like, are yousure I haven't been a lawyer for
(08:15):
like 20 years?
And they're like, no, no,that's good.
And you know we had a lot oftraining and we were there on
site in the unlikely event,honestly, on site, in the
unlikely event, honestly, thatsomething really substantial
happened and, at the very least,we were a person with a hotline
number to what they call theboiler room who could level up
(08:35):
real problems that couldn't beresolved on site.
A lot of them are notnecessarily malicious of intent.
Sometimes it's a simplemisunderstanding of human poll
workers and voters who don'tunderstand when you can cast a
provisional ballot and what thatmeans, and lots of other rules.
And, as we all know now, thoserules are even more so lately,
constantly in flux and changingall the time.
(08:55):
So, whatever they were backwhen I did this in 2020, I'm
sure they're obsolete in someway now.
And, of course, I got mypostcards and everything else
and that election, after a lotof, frankly, trauma and distress
for a lot of us, I believe,went the right way, thankfully,
and we're better for it, and Ihad gotten my postcards and I'm
(09:17):
like I'll probably sign up forthe voter thing again.
And then, first of all, it wasso exciting.
I think we all have yet tofully comprehend the amazing
happenstance of Joe Bidenstepping aside and also
endorsing Kamala Harris, and Ithink that's going to be
something we're going to needsome historical perspective on.
(09:39):
But I was so excited when shecame on board and I was always
looking to do more because, eventhough I haven't been in
politics, I've been a littleadjacent.
I used to be a bureau speakeragent for former political and
media people.
This answer is way too long.
I didn't feel like.
I never felt like I was doingenough, but I didn't know how to
(10:00):
get a handhold on it.
And if JD Vance had been evenslightly less of a total jerk
and hadn't just been so openly,blatantly and so comfortable
being hostile towards women ofevery walk of life?
But starting with thesechildless cat ladies and I
(10:21):
realize you know I'm a childlesscat lady by every definition of
the word.
But it's not about that.
It's about othering people andthis is just an easy sort of bad
joke way to get a toehold in ofpeople being numbed to the
othering of their other fellowcitizens in this country and
(10:42):
their rights and theirimportance and how we all have
to take care of each other.
And I got the URL that day andthe Instagram the day that he
stepped aside and endorsedKamala Harris, and we've had
some helpers along the way, butI'm largely a one-person show
and it's been.
(11:05):
Without getting into detail,this answer is already way too
long.
It has been the best thing I'veever been involved with because
of the amazing people I've met,and I really believe we're
going to win this election, eventhough I'm nervous.
But somehow, even if we don't,I don't feel like I would
totally lose faith anymorebecause of all these.
(11:26):
I know that I'm not the onlyone, and I know that there are
other people I'm with, so that'sthat's how we started.
Sorry for the length.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
That's great.
I, politics aside, I do thinkhistorically, we'll look back on
this election Everyone who'shere represents PR or comms in
any way and look at some massivemissteps on political messaging
by certain individuals, forsure.
Courtney, a similar questionfor you you launched Pantsuit
(11:56):
Nation in 2016, which is one ofthe largest communities for
mobilizing millions to becomemore civically engaged, and
later on, after joining forces,you became the head of
activation for supermajority.
How have you seen the landscapeevolve since 2016, in
particular, regarding womenfemale voters and this unity
(12:19):
call started by win with Blackwomen and then followed by other
women led groups.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Well, it's been really, uh, interesting to not
be with Pansy Nation orSupermajority right now, um, you
know, since 2020 and kind ofwatch everything happen.
And what's most, um,interesting to me is really the
landscape is evolving, in partbecause of all of the groundwork
(12:48):
that was laid formalorganizations like Run for
Something that's actuallybringing people in to run for
office, to organizations likePantsuit Nation, which were
(13:08):
really about getting people toengage with each other and
recognize their own power whenit comes to civic engagement,
and then, once their kind ofempathy for one another had
really been cultivated, thentake the step to actually do the
work that makes our countrybetter for, you know, our
neighbors and ourselves, and sosome of what you know was
(13:33):
necessary.
It's funny to see some of theparallels.
So, for example, pantsuitNation blew up over the course
of two weeks, you know, wentfrom zero people to roughly 3
million people in about twoweeks, and Facebook was
scrambling to get everything inline.
(13:54):
To figure it out, we had theseamazing people that were just
working almost 24 seven to stopthe thing from crashing, to make
sure that everything wasworking, and that exact same
thing just happened with Zoom,when all of the when, the size
of the win with Black Women Callgot so large that they needed
to, you know, react in real timeand create these tools that are
(14:20):
now, you know, equipped tohandle these extremely large
organizing calls.
And even organizing on Zoom wassomething that started for the
2020 election bringing peopletogether, doing trainings for it
was really, you know, kind of afunction of the pandemic.
You know, doing trainings fortext banking or phone banking
(14:43):
had to happen over Zoom, and sorecognizing that this is a tool
and then the tool really blowingup is pretty amazing to see.
I think, also, the Roe decisionreally changed the way that
women saw themselves reflectedin what's happening on the
(15:06):
national level.
I think we all always knew thatour, you know, personal rights
were at stake, but when thatactually fell, the reality of
that was, you know, even forthose of us who are tracking
this, who are on the kind ofside of the percentage of the
(15:26):
population that keeps track ofall of these things on a regular
basis, it was still just anabsolute gut punch, and so a lot
of people began telling theirstories, and this was really a
key element of the PantsuitNation philosophy that it's
through storytelling that wereally understand what is at
stake when it comes to theseissues.
And you know, at the DNC yousaw all of those women and their
(15:50):
male counterparts telling theirstories about reproductive
issues, and that's the way thatwe really understand what's at
stake.
What's at stake, and so there'sthat storytelling kind of
through line and then Roe comingdown, I think really encouraged
more women to see themselves inthe reality of this election.
(16:13):
And the final thing I'll say isyou know, one thing I think is
really important and what'sreally exciting when something
like Cat Ladies for Kamalastarts or Voluntario Support
Kamala, is that Win With BlackWomen had been having that call
for years I mean I think eightyears or something and so they
were ready when the time came.
(16:37):
All of that infrastructure wasthere and what they needed was
just to have more people comeand more people care and be part
of it and the invitation go outto more people.
What's going to be the nextcatalyst for what we now see is
(17:08):
all of these organizations thathave raised so much money, that
have engaged all of these people.
So I think you know if there'sa lesson in all of this and this
speaks actually to what youwere talking about, blair, that
you know, no matter the outcome,there's a sense of kind of hope
.
That's there.
That's a little bit different,even as it feels, like you know,
extra, extra important that theelection, you know, doesn't go
(17:30):
in a Trump direction.
That people know how toorganize the average person
knows how to organize in adifferent way than they did
before and there's a sense oforganization sort of coming to
your door rather than youneeding to go out and find it.
That, I think, is empowering alot of people to become more
(17:54):
active for the first time.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
That's great.
Also, courtney didn't know, butshe was an excellent segue into
what I'm going to ask next,Because what I kind of heard all
of you saying is there's twolevels here, like in your
stories.
There's the raising awareness,gaining awareness of the public.
But then what do you do withthat?
How do you organize that?
Because if you just have a lotof followers, you're just a meme
(18:19):
account, right that?
Because it's, if you just havea lot of followers, you're just
a meme account, right?
The magic is, how do we createopportunities for engagement and
for action at the individuallevel?
And so, on the survey thatErica read earlier, it said that
67% of Vest members share thatthey still get most of their
political news from traditionalmedia and then social media,
(18:42):
their political news fromtraditional media and then
social media, podcasts, onlinestuff, kind of going on down.
And this strikes me as one ofthose big shifts where, even
eight years ago, even four yearsago, the way in which Americans
received information and fromwhom, has shifted, in some cases
majorly, some cases maybe justa minor shift, but we are much
(19:04):
more based in like informationsilos now.
And so how do you all and thisis open to anybody, but how do
you see the roles of traditionalmedia and non-traditional media
evolving this year as comparedto 2020 or 2016?
Speaker 4 (19:24):
I am certainly the newbie of these group of experts
and just to reiterate, win WithBlack Women leads all of us to
this day, through the election,through, hopefully, many years
to come, so just wanted to makesure everyone understood how
that being on those calls everyweek for eight years really made
(19:46):
the rest of us possible,because I am learning every
single day what to do.
And what really struck me, Andy, is I say this all the time we
have a lot of followers.
We have more followers thansome of these grassroots groups,
and what I've told people isthat if we don't get people
actually taking action, it'smeaningless.
It's meaningless.
(20:06):
And so, for example and I can'teven name all the different
grassroots and affinity groupswho have helped us in addition
to Win With Black Women but, forexample, we are going to be
doing a caravan to Penn, as theycall them, to Pennsylvania, to
meet cat ladies there weekendafter this for two days of
canvassing in York County,pennsylvania.
(20:29):
Everyone's welcome and you cango to their website and sign up
for different swing states,different shifts, different
dates.
We are doing phone bankingevery week.
We had to learn how to do thesethings.
We had to get help from otherpeople and when it comes to the
information silos, I think thebest thing that a group like
(20:50):
ours can do that has sort ofthis wide but maybe not deep
reach with our followers not yetis to encourage them to learn
with us.
So, for example, I try toregularly express in our
different posts and videos andemails that, look, I'm going to
(21:14):
do this phone bank.
You know, when I did my firstphone bank Two weeks ago, here's
what I learned.
Here's what I was scared of.
Here's what's not scary aboutit, or as scary as you might
think.
Don't want to do our thing.
Here's a list of our website oflike 20 other things you can do
with other groups.
You don't have to do our thing.
Here's some.
Let me introduce you to theseother groups.
Or maybe someplace that has a.
(21:34):
I'm one person.
I'm in the mid Atlantic.
I'm not going to be in personat a Nevada canvassing group.
Here's maybe some people youcan get in touch with there.
Learn with us, learn with us.
But also don't take the factthat you don't know everything
as a hindrance, because thetruth is most people have to
learn this by doing it and, Ithink, getting that information.
(21:57):
I work my day job is intraditional and streaming media.
I work for a large mediacompany in advertising and you
have to be everywhere, sort ofin one way or another, and one
of the ways that differentgrassroots groups can help is
some of these groups.
Geeks for Hairs are great onTwitch.
I'm not going to be on Twitchguys, it's probably not going to
(22:18):
happen, I mean not in ameaningful way in the next two
weeks.
You know what?
I'm not going to be on Twitchguys.
It's probably not going tohappen, not in a meaningful way,
in the next two weeks.
You know what I'm saying.
I'm jumping on something withthem and they're going to be on
Twitch and they're going to doall the work and I'm going to
say hi or whatever.
I'm not going to be able toexecute everything, but I'm
going to do a few things as wellas we can with our resources
(22:41):
resources and then I'm going toeither push the our cat ladies
who are interested in otherthings than what we're giving to
other places, other resources,or and or I'm going to hop on
with other people who are goingto help me get my word out
through other channels.
But you have to be it's veryfragmented and you kind of got
to be everywhere, but you can'tdo it by yourself.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Courtney or Mia?
How do you see the roles oftraditional media and newer
media shifting this year?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
about TikTok and how there are people there that are
speaking in plain language andexplaining things to people that
you know.
This is what this means.
You know the news is reportingon this.
Here's what that means, or?
Have you heard this story?
I'm going to do like a fivepart video on it and it becomes
almost like a long form versionof understanding what's
happening in the world.
Um, I'm not like.
(23:42):
I I'm very skeptical also of,like all social media because of
its potential ill, but that issays the woman who you know ran
a giant Facebook group.
But, um, the uh.
What is so interesting to me is,again, it's about meeting
people where they are, and andit's about getting people,
getting the information in frontof people, and maybe that is
(24:05):
through, you know, the we talk.
The Call Her Daddy podcast, forexample, was a place where a lot
of people just are, and nowKamala Harris is there, and if
you're on TikTok and you'rescrolling, you know you're going
to find these people that aretalking about various issues,
and I think it's a.
I think it's a reallyinteresting combination and I
(24:28):
think that there are some reallystrong creators out there that
they themselves are doing areally good mix of bringing in
traditional media, introducingthe story, breaking it down,
that kind of thing, so I thinkthat that is really good.
On the other hand, there's alot of crazies and a lot of
people that don't know whatthey're talking about and a lot
of misinformation that's comingfrom a similar place, and I do
(24:51):
think that you know theresponsibility of the platforms
to be giving people theknowledge to know like this is
AI created?
This is a refuted topic, youknow.
Here's some other articlesabout that.
All of that technology thathelps you understand and kind of
(25:12):
know how to consume media in amore intelligent way, I think is
really important and that'ssort of a really big learning
curve that we're all goingthrough right now with the
changes in technology.
That is going to continue toevolve the way that we interact
with traditional versusnon-traditional media.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
I have a friend that works in traditional media as a
TV journalist here in Oklahomaand then Detroit, boston.
He recently got laid off anddid what anybody does, where he
started a podcast and a substack and is now doing his own
thing.
But he relies on legacy media,as it is, to report news and
then he, like, synthesizes thatand does his own little nugget.
(25:54):
And I trust him.
I think it's great.
But he and I've had theconversation of if you grow this
, you will become the trustedsource People won't, even you'll
be disconnected from, or thereader, the listener will be
disconnected from the originalsource and while I may trust him
, there's thousands of otherpeople doing that.
Right, and that's what you said, courtney is that suddenly the
opportunity for disinformationor even just like spin that
(26:19):
might be subtle at first canquickly spin out of control and
I think that gives a lot ofpeople some pause.
And all of this kind of goes intogether with heightened
polarization.
Sometimes talking aboutpolitics being perceived as
political can feel dangerous orcontentious.
The news last week about anindividual being a plot being
(26:45):
foiled for a mass shooting onelection day a guy from here in
Oklahoma has made it hit home, Ithink for a lot of us, and
certainly for many women,including those in the vest
community, worry about politicalretribution and how it might
impact their business or theirspouse's business or their kids
(27:05):
at school or any number ofthings.
So this is really a questionfor anybody or everybody there.
But how do we combat that?
How do we foster healthy,productive political
conversations?
I feel like there's adifference between political
conversations and conversationsabout politics, sometimes right
(27:27):
Like it's a tent issue,especially with folks who might
hold different viewpoints.
What advice do you have for theaudience?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So this is a really difficult topic and certainly
not something that I think maybewe're going to solve in this
moment here, but what I will sayis that I think it really comes
down to your individualdecision about how you're going
(28:04):
to move in the world when thishappens, and that you know we're
I think each of us is aware ofthe way that one person's energy
can either escalate ordeescalate a situation, and you
can choose to be thedeescalating energy, even if
you're angry, even if you're,you know, insulted, and I'm
(28:24):
saying, I'm saying this, I never, I don't always do this, so
there's times when I am like, no, this is the land in the sand,
I'm not going to give you grace.
But it is about individualenergy, and one thing I think is
really interesting to have asan example right now is the Liz
Cheney Kamala Harrisinteractions and conversations,
(28:44):
that these are two people whoare really on opposite sides of
the political conversation buthave decided, like we're not
just being cordial, we areactually coming together and
standing on our common ground,and this is what it looks like
to have those conversations in aessentially civil way, that
(29:06):
this is not about like slinginginsults back and forth at each
other.
This isn't about, you know,being a sort of a lightning rod
for, I don't know, memeing orsomething.
This is about standing in frontof people, recognizing that
we're on different sides of thespectrum, but this is the way
(29:27):
that we've come together and Ithink that that's just a really
important visual that we haveright now, as compared to what
we're seeing in a lot of otherplaces.
But, when it comes down to it,a lot of it is about individual
decision making.
In those moments when thingsget heated and that's difficult,
because sometimes you shouldn'thave to be the person that is
(29:53):
the bigger person and you canmake your own decision about it.
But when it comes down to it, Ireally think it's about a
individual decision.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
And if I could just piggyback on Courtney, I think
the Liz Cheney, kamala Harrisvisual and reality is exactly
perfect.
And Kamala Harris I'm going tonot get this quote exactly right
but talks about I may learn andevolve my understanding of
(30:27):
issues and details and lifeexperiences that other people
have that I don't have, which iswhy they may think differently
than me.
But I'm not going to compromisemy values and it is an
individual thing.
I, you know, I work for a bigcompany that works with other
people from big companies and Ican't always say the first thing
that comes to my mind in someconversations.
(30:49):
But I also keep in mind what myown values are and I'm not
going to and in my discussions Ican have appropriately polite,
convivial discussions withpeople who think differently.
But I want to make sure I'm notcompromising my values in that
(31:11):
process, whatever that means forme personally, and I don't
personally believe that's goingto interfere with my work.
But if I'm prepared and I hadto be prepared when I took on
this more public-ish role withthe Cat Ladies is that if I feel
like I am acting appropriatelyin the space and someone just
(31:32):
finds out that I do this andthey don't like it.
Well, that's not something Idon't feel that's inappropriate,
and so I just I try to alwaysbe understanding and open-minded
and convivial, without but I amnot going to compromise my
values.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I just want to normalize that, like I think all
of us are afraid of time and Ithink, as women, you know, many
of us prefer to please, to beliked to avoid conflict.
I'm not saying that's all weare, but I think a lot of us
have been socialized that wayand so it can be easier to just
avoid these things.
And so for me, in doing thiswork, some of it has just been
(32:13):
trying to really go back to whatmatters to me and be a little
bit brave about it.
Matters to me and be a littlebit brave about it, like the
same way I would tell mydaughter and you know, believing
that this is right, believingin the urgency.
And then I've found that I, overtime, I've become more and more
afraid of engaging inrespectful discourse, and that's
(32:34):
bad, we have to move away fromthat.
And so, for example, when Istarted to approach people about
voluntario pro canada, Irealized like it's okay for me
to ask, it's okay for me to tellthem and also say to them if
this is not of interest to you,that's a-okay, and just sort of
normalizing that civicengagement is productive,
respectful, even if not everyoneagrees with our particular
(32:56):
brand of it, like that can,that's all right, and talking
about these issues has become sotaboo and it's really dangerous
that it's become so taboo.
So, you know, I think, justtrying to get a little bit more
comfortable with doing it in arespectful way, of course, not
sort of violating your valuesthat is obviously not good but
(33:20):
also, like we heard aboutthere's changing Kamala Harris
like trying to find points incommon with folks who do see
things differently, so that,even if we disagree, it's in a
way that still can feelproductive, like we're
connecting as humans, we'rebeing, you know, we're
humanizing the other, we're,we're being social with the
other.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
It's not easy and it is very scary, but I think
sometimes these interactions,can go better than we expect If
we can put the fear like alittle know identity privileges
can help you be the personthat's speaking up or means that
(34:11):
you know you're not in aplace's really important to have
coalitions and your closepeople that you're working with,
because if there's a topic thatis just really hits very close
to home and I'm not going to beable to have this conversation
(34:34):
in a way that is, you know,whatever measured or something
like that then you know someoneelse can step forward and take
on that work.
And that's actually a lot ofwhat you know we would do in
Pantsuit Nation when it comes tomoderation.
That you know if this, if hey,are you okay in there?
(34:54):
Like, do you need any help?
What can I do with?
Like, how can I support you?
And sometimes you know it wouldjust be like today's not the day
for me to you know, get inthere and talk about something
that's really difficult for meto engage with.
That you know on a personallevel.
So I think there's a piece, too, about recognizing when you are
(35:15):
the person with the privilegeand can step in and be the voice
that is more moderated, butkeep like, bring that other
person into the room with youand make sure that their needs,
their rights, all of that isrepresented.
I think that's a really keything and something that we.
(35:36):
It's something that you sort ofhave to practice doing, like
reminding yourself you know whenyou have power, when your power
is compromised and when to useit.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
And I just said just to acknowledge, jumping over
into the chat a little bit and,yeah, it is different.
When you're earning, you knowyou own your own business, or
when I I now live in Baltimore,I work in DC, I have a base pay
that goes along with my position.
That is very different than theeight years I spent in a very
small city in southeastern NorthCarolina doing the same work,
(36:09):
where I worked at 100%commission and had to go out and
talk to very local businessowners in the greater Wilmington
North Carolina area, in thegreater Wilmington North
Carolina area, um, and you know,10, 12, 14 years ago, and uh,
it's, it is different.
And so to Courtney's pointabout the privilege.
That's, um, that's true, that'sreal.
(36:30):
I, for example I mean you jokeabout childless cat ladies I
don't have a two-year-old, Ihave to feed and pay for it to
go to certain things.
So maybe it's easier for me totake my risks.
And you know, I now do have aposition where I'm not on.
I have, we all have things wehave to do to earn our pay, but
it's not the same thing as,literally, where I used to work.
(36:52):
They called it you only eatwhat you kill.
But, the, the, the.
The fact that now I have thisposition is it became this year,
but starting in 2020, inparticular, it became to feel
for me and the position that Ihad, frankly but impossibly
(37:13):
immoral for me to not takeadvantage, to not give
everything I could give, becausethere were so many people who
were not in the position, whowere going to be in a position
where they might feel moreretribution, where they might
feel more danger to theirpersonal, economic and family
(37:36):
security or their personalwell-being, their physical
security.
So I just want to acknowledgeeverything going on in the chat,
and Courtney too, because it'sreal.
It's real.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
Yeah, thanks.
I love the energy around thisanswer and I have a similar
experience that I'll share realquickly.
And then we're getting close ontime.
But you know, my two older kidsplay soccer.
I'm on the sidelines every weekand you hear so many
conversations that are reallyclose to being impactful and you
(38:09):
can feel the parents and Ithink in particular the mothers
not say the one thing that wouldmake this into a persuasive
conversation.
For the sake of politeness,keeping peace on the sideline,
the husbands, the dads, don'talways have that same filter.
They'll stand off to the sideand watch a football game on
(38:30):
their phone and just observingit, the dynamics there, is
interesting and I think I'm verysympathetic to the massive
amount of emotions thateverybody brings in my
experience, particularly womento this election and the issues
that affect their household thatyou may feel unable to fully
(38:50):
express.
My wife, I know, will go to thecar and scream by herself
sometimes just to get it out,because she can't say the thing
out loud she really wants to out, because she can't say the
thing out loud, she really wantsto, and so I think, really
excellent feedback on tacticsand ways to create that space
when necessary.
So we've got, we'll say, likeseven minutes left, I think, and
(39:10):
I want to make sure that wehave some time to talk about
local stuff.
Right, we talk a lot about thepresidential election.
It certainly captivates theheadlines in the media, but all
of us have the opportunity tothink and act locally.
In places like Oklahoma, wherewe're not a swing state and we
might feel left out, there arestill ways that we can be
(39:35):
involved.
And so, to each of you, whatstrategies would you recommend
and how would you highlight theimportance of like state and
local elections, maybe incontrast, those national things,
and how can VEST members takeaction in their community and go
ahead?
Blair?
Speaker 4 (40:10):
But I'd say, boy, we've all learned how important
your state legislators are indealing with things like women's
health care, voting rights,even how they're implementing,
sometimes you know, funds thatthey could get from the federal
government, and when you're in astate that's not a purple state
or, you know, not, acompetitive state.
Primaries your primaries, arereally important.
That's what comes to mind forme.
Primaries, your primaries, arereally important, that's what
comes to mind for me.
But vote the best that you have.
Vote every time, and even ifyou don't think any of your
choices are perfect.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Thank you, Mia.
I think you were going to keepin mind is that you know, many
of our national leaders werelocal leaders.
You know Barack Obama was astate senator, Kamala Harris was
a district attorney, Tim Walzwas a local organizer for his
hometown, for John Curry, andthen became a representative in
Congress.
So you know, by voting now, byinvesting in local politicians
(40:59):
now, you are helping to createthe leaders of the future and
you're helping them to build theskills to become the kinds of
leaders that we want for all ofus at a national scale.
So there's lots of I mean,there's many, many ways in which
local elections are cruciallyimportant, but that's another
one that people don't alwaysthink about.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I would also add that .
So ballot ready is a reallygreat resource to prepare for
voting, and part of what Ireally love about it is that you
can see where you're the peoplewho represent you stand on
various issues.
It gives you a betterunderstanding of what the heck
(41:46):
you're voting for in these downballot races, and I know that
for many years I went into thevoting booth like who is this?
And I'm just like, yeah, I'malso from Massachusetts, so it's
a little bit.
Sometimes there's just one nameand it has a D next to it and
you're like, okay, vote for thatperson.
But every once in a while thereis an actual, you know,
important difference between howpeople feel about specific
(42:10):
subjects that you care about inyour local election, and I find
Ballot Ready a really usefulplace to just get to.
You know, what have they saidabout this, what are their
points about this, what's ontheir website about this?
So that is, I think, justthat's a resource that I share
pretty often with people whenthey say you know, I don't
really know what's going on inmy state Because I think, my
(42:31):
goodness, our state websiteslike so archaic and difficult to
navigate and like all that theywant is just like I don't know.
I just feel like I go there topay a parking ticket or
something, but it's that isreally helpful.
The other thing is that, again,because the pandemic kind of
created all of these differentopportunities that allow us to
(42:53):
connect with people outside ofour state without leaving our
homes, that, you know, phonebanking is something that you
can do no matter where you are,and you can call in to different
states.
I know that I'm, you know,sending vote forward letters in
to swing states from, you know,my little blue Massachusetts,
(43:14):
and so there are more ways thatpeople have created who
recognize that this is adifficult situation that a lot
of the country finds themselvesin, where they feel like it's
not enough for me to just vote,because I know the way that my
state is going to go.
The other thing that I think isinteresting is that over the
course of certainly my lifetime,we've seen states move from you
(43:37):
know, red states to purplestates.
States become swing states.
Swing states become, you know,entrenched in one color and so
kind of flexing your muscles andbeing ready when your state
might suddenly actually be inplay or there's an important
seat in your state.
That's in play is, I think,just an important thing to keep
in the back of your mind that,like I'm not doing this, it's
(43:58):
not a useless thing to engage inthis, these civic practices,
because it could be on mydoorstep, you know, in the next
election.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Could I just add one other thing that that I thought
of you know I just want toadvocate.
I just want to say that I thinkas women, we're just constantly
feeling like we're not doingenough, we aren't enough and
that can make us avoid things attimes because we just get
overwhelmed.
And I just want to emphasizethat one hour is enough.
You know, in one hour you canphone bank.
In one hour you can do a bootcamp about best practices for
(44:30):
advocating and promoting onsocial media.
You can also recruit, you know,five volunteers in one hour.
So I think for all of us, we'reconstantly feeling that pressure
, like we have to remindourselves that we can't let
perfect be the enemy of the good.
And you know, if we can putaside the self-judgment and sort
of trust that anything wecontribute is positive and
making things better, we havemore room and more space to just
(44:52):
do the even just a small amountthat we can do, because many of
us are in seasons that arealive, but that's all we can do,
a small amount but that's stillamazing, and so I just wanted
to add that in really quickly.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
If you enjoyed this episode, share with a friend and
don't forget to leave us areview.
And if you're ready to takeyour career to the next level,
apply to join our community ofprofessional women all eager to
help you get there and staythere.
Go to wwwbestherco and applytoday.
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