Family, Food, and Freedom: A Greek Immigrant's Journey (Art Arvanites)

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Art Arvanites's story begins in the shadow of World War II, where as a young boy in a small Greek village, he witnessed German occupation forces take his father, leaving his mother to raise five children alone. Barefoot and without basic school supplies, Art's resourcefulness emerged early as he moved between relatives and developed street-smart ways to survive. His poignant memory of asking his mother for a pencil for school—only to be told she couldn't afford one—underscores the poverty that shaped his early years.

The narrative transforms when, at nearly 17, Art receives sponsorship to immigrate to America. Arriving at Ellis Island after a 17-day ocean voyage with just $4 in his pocket, he experiences both culture shock and opportunity. His description of his first American meal—a ham and cheese sandwich that tasted "rotten" compared to familiar Greek food—captures the profound adjustment immigrants face.

Art's journey accelerates through military service, where he gains citizenship and English skills serving as a clerk typist in the U.S. Army. Returning to Lansing, his business acumen flourishes as he purchases Harry's Place restaurant across from the Fisher Body plant—a strategic decision that becomes the foundation of his success. His entrepreneurial ventures expand dramatically into real estate development, where his knack for identifying opportunity leads to remarkable investment returns.

Throughout his story, family values remain central. Art's pride in his four children, his partnership with his wife Theoria, and his commitment to helping relatives shine through every anecdote. Now at 90, still maintaining his own property and reflecting on his journey with profound gratitude, Art offers timeless wisdom: "Work hard, be happy, and enjoy life. Be honest to your fellow citizens, don't harm anybody."

This remarkable immigrant story demonstrates how resilience, work ethic, and entrepreneurial spirit can transform adversity into achievement. What challenges have you overcome in your own journey? Share your story of persistence and join our community of listeners exploring the extraordinary lives of ordinary people.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Today is Monday, July 14th 2025.
We're talking with ArtArvanitis, who served in the
United States Army, so goodafternoon, Art.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Good afternoon Bill.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Great to see you today.
Now full disclosure.
Art is my uncle or my Theo Art,so I'm interested to learn all
about you, and the way we'regoing to start is I'm going to
ask you quite simply when andwhere were you born?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
when and where were you born?
I was born June 20th 1935 inMalota.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Greece, which is a village near Megalopoli, Arcadia
, greece.
Okay, so you just had a 90thbirthday recently, then how does
it feel to be 90?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, no difference than 80 or 70.
A little bit slower.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yes, yes, I can understand that.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout growing up.
So you grew up in Greece.
What was it like to be a youngman in Greece?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, I tell you, there was a rough time during
the Second World War, which theGermans well, first the Italians

(02:23):
and then the Germans came intoGreece and they came in with,
were in southern Greece, andthere was devastating times.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
My I don't want to talk about that.
Okay, we don't have to.
Theodore, so how old were youwhen you came to the United
States?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I was pretty near 17.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
But anyway, what I want to say before, All right,
but anyway what I want to saybefore.
When the Germans came to ourvillage, which is only about 37
homes or something, and theytook my dad, so my mother was

(03:31):
left with five kids.
The oldest was nine, my sisterand I had a younger sister which

(03:59):
was about three, and I was thefourth child born.
So it was very, very toughtimes I don't even want to talk
about that Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
We can take our time.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
So that left your mother to raise all the children
.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yes, and my grandma had a brother at the other
village, which is Kedastari, andher brother was a priest,
papupapavageli, and he came tothe village to see my mother and

(04:45):
us and asked my oldest brotherwant to go with him to Kerastari
and stay?
And he said no.
He asked my other brother.
He asked my other brother, elia.
He says, would you like to cometo Calistari and stay with me?

(05:10):
No, and then he asked me and Isaid sure, I was the adventurous
, it sounds like it.
And Papua, papua, there wasnobody living in his village at

(05:34):
that time.
So he wanted some companybecause he had two sons and a
daughter.
His son was killed during the.
He was a pilot, he got killedduring when the Italians were

(05:57):
coming into northern Greece, andthe other was drafted in the
army.
And the third was a daughter,dina.
Yeah, I remember George Tassoand Dina.

(06:17):
So Papua Vigali took me toKerastari and I think it must
have been either 42 somewhere,fall of 42, and I stayed in

(06:39):
Kerastari till 1948.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
So from about seven years old to about 13 years old,
then you were there.
Did you visit home at allduring that time?

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yes, you know I.
I had gone many times to visitmom and my other siblings, but
that was a hard time because wehad no shoes.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Really.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, going barefooted.
You know I must have been inthe first grade or something
that they had.
The school was.
I had one room that a visitingteacher was coming and you know

(07:53):
the other kids, they werewriting with a pencil.
And I went home and I asked mymom and I said, mom, they're
writing something with thepencil.
Can I have a pencil myself?
And that's what I get emotional, mm-hmm she.

(08:19):
She said I don't have anythingto buy it.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
So that's, why.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's very difficult.
Yeah, you know, we're fortunatein this country.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I'm sorry, Bill.
You're fine, Theo, You're fineArt.
We take a lot for granted, Ithink.
We do.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I hope this country never takes anything for
granted, because we really lovethis country the freedom that
we have.
We really love this country.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
The freedom that we have.
So how long so did you graduatefrom school then in Greece?
How long did you stay in school?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, no, I didn't.
Okay.
I left Kyrhtari in 1948 and Iwas in Tripoli, which you

(09:36):
probably heard Tripoli, it's onthe center of Peloponnese, you
know that and I was sellingwatermelons for an uncle and I

(09:58):
made enough money from thewatermelons to go to Athens
where one of my dad's youngestbrother was living, and I was
fortunate enough, it was theIrene and the Ocosta.

(10:24):
They were terrific, very, verygood.
Just like the parents that Idid not have, so….

Speaker 1 (10:43):
So I want to ask you were doing… you traveled on your
own.
Then you went to differentfamily members, but you traveled
on your own at that young age.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
I remember going from village to village and there's
white clay and you know becauseduring the summertime, when you
travel like that and you'regoing barefoot and you see and
there's snakes, you know theyand and you're chasing them and

(11:18):
you look at anyway.
But yeah.
I had to travel.
You know, Papu Papa was, Ithink, probably in his middle
70s that time.
Yeah.
So, and then he had his ownproblems with some of the

(11:44):
villagers that they left to jointhe different parties and they
were threatening him and I thinkin 1946 he left.
He went to Athens during thenight From 1946 to 48, I was

(12:16):
staying in Karastari by myself.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Oh, so yeah.
So then you went to, then yousold watermelons and then you
ended up in Athens.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yes, and then when I went to Athens in September I'm
pretty sure that was because Iwent to register at the second

(12:48):
gymnasium in Greece, in Athens,and I remember that principal,
or whoever it was he says to mewrite an essay how you left the
village to be here and so forth.

(13:10):
And I wrote a couple pages andhe didn't even look at them.
He says I'm sorry, we're allfull.
And I went to talk to what Icall Theo Costa and I said
that's what happened.

(13:30):
And I think he kind of lookedconfused and I don't know if he
talked to them or what, butTheokos had no means to and I

(13:58):
think that if he was a principalhe expected to get paid under
the table to register me to goto school there, Right?
So Theo Costa says well, youstay with me and we'll do some.

(14:28):
I used to go to nightclubs andsell any kind of pumpkin seeds
and I used to go to differentseasons, go to the games where

(14:58):
they were playing soccer, and Iused to sell.
At the beginning I used to sell.
At the beginning.
I used to buy a big chocolatethey used to call it Hermes.
It was huge and I used to makea little lottery and say to them

(15:28):
you know, ticket for this, youknow for so many drag masters,
and it was sold out and we'removing over and calling the

(15:53):
number in that area and nobodywas there.
So we I had a little aneighborhood kid with me and we
were setting up and eating allthe whole chocolate and watching
the game.
So next time I bought three,uh-huh, so I got to and I used

(16:18):
to give two out and keep therest one and and.
Later on, when I got some moneyin my pocket, I used to buy the
tickets in the Greek system.

(16:41):
That time If you buy thetickets, you have also a ticket.
I think that they used to callthe pronia.
You get it together and I don'tknow they say that's where you

(17:03):
learn the street smarts, or whatthe guys that used to get the
tickets you know, at thePanathinaikos there was the
stadium near there was a goodteam too they take your tickets
and they throw them down.

(17:25):
So as soon as the gates close,I used to go around and see how
many of those pronios that I canget that they look like they
were the whole thing there,because they never change it.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, also, it's the same ticket every game.
Yeah, for the government.
Yeah, they never change it.
Yeah also, it's the same ticketevery every game.
Yeah, for this, the government.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah but the uh soccer team, whatever they're
playing, what they had, thegovernment ticket to buy 10
tickets and then I'll set waywhen people stand in the line to

(18:15):
buy tickets.
It says tickets and it says howmuch.
It says face value because I wasgetting the the government's
right yeah if there was, let'ssay, $20 for the ticket and $5

(18:35):
for the government.
So I used to sell them justlike this.
Give me that, give me that,give me that.
So next time I'll get doublethe.
Yeah, I used to make whateverthey were playing, I used to

(18:56):
make pretty good.
And then I think my uncleregistered me to go to night
school at tech school.
Well, I wasn't any tech savvy,that was all new to me.

(19:19):
You know the merchant marinesand so forth, you know.
You know the merchant marinesand so forth.
You know, and I used to taketwo buses from the way from home

(19:48):
in what they used to call it,to ammonia, to put it near
Philadelphia, where the nightschool was.
And I did it for I don't knowtwo or three, four months and I
said no, I'm not going to go tothat, said no, I'm not going to

(20:14):
go to that.
So I kept on doing the oddthings there and helping my
uncle.
But that time they got one ofthose kiosks, you know, selling
cigarettes.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Oh, yes, like a little shop, yeah, oh yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Like a little shop, yeah, like yeah, and I was
helping him a little bit and hisbrother.

(20:53):
In 1951, I bought my own littlekiosk with my cousin, but I was
working that many hours and mycousin never showed up for
something like that or wheneverhe wanted to show up, like theo
spiro was when I was working.
His shift sometimes is come infor three hours and then the

(21:18):
three hours become 12 hours, butanyway, that's something that.
So in early 52, I got the goodnews that Uncle Nick Bardaville,

(21:44):
which was living in LansingMichigan at that time, sent for
me to come to the US, and therewas another brother of my
grandma, so Theo Costa, makingarrangements of my grandma,

(22:05):
uh-huh.
So Theo Costa, americanRegiments and Papua Nicole sent
$400 at that time for my ticketto come over to the US.
Now, did you come over on aboat then?

(22:26):
Oh, yes, 17 days, wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
How was that?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
It was up and down.
You know, the funny thing wasin the high seas.
Yeah.
Everything was really, reallygood.
You know there were plenty offood you can eat all you want to
and in the high seas there wason that board there was 700

(22:57):
Greek people, mostly, mostly DPs.
You know that there weredisplaced people.
You know I came in under the.
I don't know who was.
How can you say it?

(23:18):
As an immigrant, you had firstpriority.
If you lost your parents, likeTheoria did the same thing,
theoria, as a matter of fact,lost both of her parents.
Yeah.
One.
Her father was in the army andher mother I don't know what she

(23:44):
died from, but anyway she cameover and we had first priority
and when I got the OK that UncleNick had sent the money to, it

(24:05):
took only 37 days for me to getall the papers and in mere
effect, papu, papa at that time,my registration papers that
were lost during the war, youknow, when they bombarded the

(24:29):
villages and they were destroyed.
Some of the villages, they didnot have anything happen to them
, but ours, because that wasclose to the town of 4,000 or
5,000 people.
Right.
That the Germans and theItalians, they'll look at any

(24:56):
forest.
If they've seen any movementsin any forest, they're
bombarding, and you know.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah a burden, and you know so.
How can?
So how were you able to findyour papers then, since they got
destroyed?

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yes, that's well, papu.
Papa, he was living in Perea.
That time I was in Athens, hewas living in Piraeus.
At that time I was in Athens,he was in Piraeus.
So he says well, we have anarrangement to go and see a

(25:38):
judge to give you a certificatefor you're born and all this and
that.
So I said, okay, I met him.
We went to the court, papu,papa Vageli, at that time you

(25:58):
know, big beard, very nice, trim, you know, and very
distinguished looking.
And I was behind him and thejudge says Pater, you know this

(26:22):
individual.
He says yes, and who is thisindividual?
He says yes, and who is thisindividual?
It's my nephew's child and hewas born.
When was he born?
He says September 12, 1935.
I didn't say nothing and I saidafter we got out Papu, I wasn't

(26:53):
born September 12, 1935.
I was born June 20, 1935.
And he says ah, you knownothing to it.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
you know we got the year right, so and what did you
say?

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well, I think there was something that happened with
my yaya and that they became tohis mind and his head.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
So you got a new birthday out of it.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah Well, nowadays they on my papers they say
September 12, 1935.
But I never celebrated, oh my,so you were able to get your
paperwork, yeah, and then gothrough all the departments to

(28:03):
sign off that I wasn't a badindividual, I wasn't committing
any crimes or I wasn't acommunist, and all this and that
.
So I was taking them by hand toeach department to make sure

(28:24):
that they sign up and you had topay the government step so they
stamp it, and I think I haddone it 28 or 29 days the whole
thing, and that took the lastweek.

(28:48):
I went to the village, I wentto get a study and I went to see
my folks and my siblings and mymother at that time said Bye,
sonny, I'll probably never seeyou again.

(29:12):
Oh, oh.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Was she happy for you that you were coming to the
United States?
Yes, were they happy for youthat you were?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
coming to the.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
United States.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, but I said, mom, people meet again, but
mountains don't.
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I don't know why I'm so sentimental, but Well, she's
your mother, and that must havebeen very difficult.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Great lady.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
She did what she could right.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
She took care of you as best she could you know when
Theoria and I, 1973, went backfor my brother's wedding.
And.
I don't know.
We took a couple weeks off andI went to the village.

(30:20):
I had rented a car so we wentto pick up mom you know, stay
with him a little bit to go toTheoria's village.
And you know, when I was goingthrough, you know, I said mom,

(30:42):
you should be friends witheverybody in the village.
And he says I am son.
But that no good son of a andthat, good lady, I'll never be

(31:04):
friends.
You know because, and I know why, when we were lost our dad,
some of the people in thevillage took advantage of the

(31:26):
farm or whatever the trees at mydad.
You know, because we had sometrees almond trees, walnut trees
, olive trees, apple trees, youknow, for the year's food supply

(31:49):
Right, so they must went to ripit off.
So my mother never made friendswith them.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, never forgot.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
No no.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
So in 1973, you did see your mother again then oh
yeah, well, I went in 68 withJohnny.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Okay, you know that's what is it.
It's a picture of Johnny.
Where is it?
It's a picture of Johnny.
I took her.
She was sick with anemia, but Idid not go to different places

(32:47):
or just like when we were in 73.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
So if we can go back a little bit to your, you said
goodbye to your family and thendid you so.
Then you got on the boat tocome to the United States.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yes, and I went to Piraeus with Theo Costa and
Thierry Rini.
They were escorting me thereand you know they were wonderful

(33:27):
.
Your constant theory neitherwere more than parents mm-hmm,
they did more than they had tooh, they took care of you right?
Oh yeah, you know so, and Inever forgot my Theo Costa and
Theo Rini now.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Did you see them again after?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
you came many times oh good good and not only that.
I spoke to Theo Costa in hisname day in Christmas, whatever.
I talked to him at least two orthree times a year and he says

(34:14):
to me many times nephew, withall the nephews and nieces that
I have, you're the only one callme and thank me and see how we

(34:35):
are.
So you know, if somebody treatsyou good, you better.
Treat them better, Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yes, so tell me about your trip here.
And then, what was it like whenyou got to the United States?
So what was that like for you?

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Well, it wasn't easy.
I arrived at Ellis Island,which I did not know at that
time.
It was Ellis Island, uh-huh,and we were at the Ellis Island

(35:19):
for a whole day.
I went there about 10, 12 yearsago to see Ellis Island.
It looks beautiful now, butthose days 1952, it wasn't
nothing like it's today.
I don't know if you've everbeen there to see.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
I have.
I have.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Now they have all the names of people and we find my
name there, but we're sendingcross legs right there for 24
hours to be processed.
And when I was processed thereI got into a train and says well

(36:13):
, you're going to Detroit On theway, you know, because my last
meal that was probably about 5o'clock the day before, when we
were at the Ellis Island.
There was no food served for 24hours.

(36:37):
Oh, and I had $4 in my name, $4in my name.
And when I went to getsomething to eat and I see

(36:59):
people they were getting, as Ifound out later on, ham and
cheese sandwiches and Coca-Colaand I said, you know, indicate
to take that.
And I put the $4 right thereand he took it and I took a bite

(37:26):
and I thought there was rotten.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Really.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, and when I took a drink of Coca-Cola I thought
there was poison.
Oh no, because you know, inGreece I was getting used to the
feta cheese.
And then, you know, I was theportocolada, you know the orange

(38:00):
drink.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
And there was no such thing of what I got, that ham
and cheese sandwich in theCoca-Cola.
It wasn't exactly fresh either,like in Greece, and I was in
the middle of the train and Isee people going left, people

(38:39):
going right and there was like adoctor first time I ever saw.
I seen Egyptian before but I'dnever seen a black person and I
said there's my aunt outside inGreek.

(39:00):
And then when his eyes, thosewhite eyes and the black face I
never forget it.
He had no idea what you weresaying so I told and I said
after everybody went, the restall right.

(39:24):
And I said I'm going to stayright here because my Uncle,
nick's daughter was going topick me up.
I'm not going to move.
So next thing I know, after alady was coming and I thought

(39:45):
that there was my Aunt Mary.
You know that, curliss.
Yeah.
And I said, oh, tia Maria, no,so come here.
No, so come here.
So I went and then my Aunt Marywas waiting outside the gated

(40:13):
door oh, okay, to pick me up andat that time she was married to
Harold Goldmeister and westopped at Warren.

(40:58):
That was where her Papunico,theonico and Thea Magdalene- so
where did they live?
In Lansing 420 North ButlerStreet.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Oh, I know that area very well.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
They were next to Genesee Grade School.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, I don't think Genesee Grade School is there
anymore but, yeah, North Butler,I know where that's at.
So what did your Theo Nico dofor work?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Well, he was in the restaurant business, uh-huh.
And he, when I came here, hewasn't that good of a help.
He had a little restaurantcalled Bard's Restaurant.

(41:49):
What is it Say?
You know, enlarge Okay.

(42:19):
And then I went to West Juniora little bit and after about a
year or so he had another NickBardaville, first cousin in

(42:46):
Maplazan, and he got sick.
And Uncle Nick says to me,because he had a restaurant,
says Nick Bartaville needs alittle help, nick Bardaville

(43:06):
needs a little help.
Well, I had learned a little bitterrestrial business yeah with
him at Bard's and I went upthere for about a year and a
half or so, but not pleasant.

(43:29):
It was more of a college townthan anything else.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
At that time that was all there was was Central
Michigan University right andnot a lot else.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
I remember 7,000 students and I think it was less
.
The students were more than theMount Pleasant residents.
After a couple years I toldPhil Sanders, which was Uncle

(44:14):
Nick Bardaville's at that timeson-in-law I said, phil, I'm
going back to Lansing and therewas.
You know Phil was going to what?
There was a deal if I go there,we should become partners,

(44:37):
uh-huh, but anyway, I saw Philwas reluctant and I know why he
was reluctant because of hiswife.
And I said I learned a goodlesson.
And I left Phil and says well,I know you're going to do well

(45:01):
in life.
You're going to do well in life.
He was at that time, I wasprobably 20 years old and he was
38.
And I came back to Lansing and Iwent to Sexton's for I don't

(45:57):
know how long I stayed there foranyway and I went to Sexton and
I that time I said you know,uncle Harry, that summer of 57

(46:19):
or the fall of 57 or somethingthat you can come and help me.
So I did that.
And then Chris Cadillanes wassupposed to register for the

(46:46):
army, because if you're once,you're 18, you had to register
for the military right and Itook chris katayannis on may
street.
On May Street where there was aregistration offices that time

(47:17):
and Chris registered his name,you know, because at that time
Chris was freshly coming to thiscountry, he did not know any
English at all.
And I remember the lady says tome did you register yourself?

(47:40):
And I said yes, I registered.
And what's your name?
I told her and I said where areyou looking?
Oh, it says you're up for draft.
Uh-huh.

(48:02):
So I said I am.
He says yeah, and I said, well,if I'm going to be drafted,
I'll be ready.
And February 18, 1957, I wentto the Army.

(48:27):
Oh, and I said good, now Idon't have to work.
I don't have to.
You know, take it easy a littlebit.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Is that what you thought?
Yeah, oh Not that easy though.
No, no.
So where did you go for yourbasic training when you first
came into the Army?

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Well, you know, processing center, there was
four-letter word and it wasfunny At four-letter word, I
don't know if there was a firstnight or a second night.
They say we're going to have afirst night or a second night.
They say we're going to have aGI party, party.

(49:14):
Oh good, yeah, and I was toonaive, you know, right, right.
And it says you, you, you pickup a mop, you, you, you pick up
a broom, you, you, you.
So I, you pick up a broom, you,you, you.
So I said that's a GI party.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Not the kind of party you were expecting, was it Not
at all?

Speaker 2 (49:35):
And then we went to Fort Carson and there was a
rough second eight.
I mean the first eight, becausethere was March and April,

(49:55):
halfway up to Pikes Peak.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
You, been there, bill .
I have not been to Fort Carsonno.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Well and they got.
They call it the Agony Hill.
Uh-huh.
And that time you gotta, yougotta go up for bivouac and I
remember you pull your foot upand one foot goes down into the

(50:30):
mud and you pick up and that wasa pretty rough time.
A lot of people from or, let'ssay, california or Florida,

(51:35):
mm-hmm.
When you're a close to PikesPeak or four mile, well, it's's
Denver, it's the mile city.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Oh yeah, denver, the mile high city, the air is
different, right yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah.
So a lot of people did not madeit.
Art made it at 118 pounds and afull pack of 62 pounds in his
back.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Your pack weighed almost as much as you did, yeah,
so you weren't taking it easy.
It doesn't sound like it wasn'twhat you thought it was, no.
No but it got better.
Yeah, you were eight weeks atFort Carson then, is that yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Okay, and eight weeks at Fort Chaffee, arkansas.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
No, I've never heard of that.
That must not be there anymore.
Fort Chaffee, arkansas.
What did you do there?

Speaker 2 (52:35):
I went to clerk type of school.
Uh-huh.
You know, normally not normally, but I after my.
Well, no, there was.
Yeah, fort Chaffee.
Did you ever heard Fort Smith?

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Well, that was part of Fort Smith, Okay, Okay.
And there we went to Clortypusand most of the fellows

(53:17):
graduating they were sent toGermany and I applied.
You know well, I don't know if Iapplied or told I would like to
go to Germany, but because Iwasn't an American citizen I

(53:39):
couldn't go to Germany.
Oh yeah, so I stayed forChaffee an extra week or two or
so to get some orders from thePentagon and they sent me to

(54:00):
Fort Hood, texas.
And I said at that time yeah,they sent me in a foreign
country, it's Texas.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
It must have felt like a foreign country, huh.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
But you know, I was lucky there.
I got assigned to personnelwhere we had the new troops
coming in that were making thesecond missile command, Mm-hmm

(54:58):
missile command, and I stayedprobably about a month and first
sergeant he asked me, Arvanites, come here.
And I said okay, this isLieutenant Woodbeck.
And he says Lieutenant Woodbeckneeds someone to go and create

(55:31):
an airstrip.
This was all new to me and Isaid I don't know.
And his name was Sergeant Welch.
He was really nice, A young man.
I think he was made a firstsergeant during the Korea, you
know, I guess he made his rankby, but a good young man.

(55:54):
So I went to the airstrip westart getting and this is
Lieutenant.
He says, don't worry about it,we've got everything all set.
And then when I left theaviation wing at that time they

(56:19):
called it the aviation wing theyhad 300 pilots and probably 60
or 70 fixed wing, little L-19sand probably a dozen of H-13s

(56:48):
and some H-34s, because that's,how can I remember all of that?

Speaker 1 (56:55):
I know.
That's 60 years ago.
Some things you just remember,right.
Yeah, that's a pretty good sizeair wing, though that's a lot
of people.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Yeah, Well, and then you know, I got my citizenship
in Austin, Texas.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
So you got that while you were still in the Army.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yeah, and I had to have a witness with me.
So I picked up a real friend ofmine which was another draftee.
His name was Hunt.

(57:42):
We went to Austin, there to thecourt, and when the judge saw
that Aristides Arvanites, wouldyou like to change your name to
Americanize it I said no, yourHonor, that's my God-given name.

(58:05):
Come on, I give you 15 minutesto think about it.
And I said, your Honor, Ithought about it.
This is my name and I'm notgoing thought about it.
This is my name and I'm notgonna change it.
So okay, so I got mycitizenship and I was happy for

(58:33):
it.
Yeah.
But now I did not use Aristidesthat much, except on my legal
papers.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
It's still your name, though.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Yeah, so being a clerk typist, did that help you
with your English?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I remember that time.
You know, I think there was atone time that I could type 57
words a minute.
That was pretty good, yeah,that's.
But now I don't know if Iremember the keys.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Now, do you sort of just use two fingers and type,
or do you still type like you?

Speaker 2 (59:19):
No, I did not use two figures at Fort Chaffee.
Uh-huh, that ought us to A lotof the soldiers at Fort Chaffee.
They were probably not onlyhigh school graduates, but

(59:41):
college graduates.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
So you got your citizenship in Austin and then
did you stay at Fort Hood, thenthe rest of your time in the
Army yes, okay.
And how long were you in?
I was for two years.
Okay, I was for two years.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Okay, Probably well.
I was the February 18th when Iwas in the Army.
I probably got out of thereprobably a couple weeks early
because of leave time.

(01:00:20):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
And did you come back to Lansing then, or did you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I was going to stay inTexas.
I had found a person.
They had a restaurant I thinkthey call it the Elite at that

(01:00:47):
time, anyway but then I wastalking to Uncle Nick and Uncle
Nick had slept and broke his leg, slipped on ice, uh-huh, broke
his leg and Theomar Gdaldinisays well, theonique needs some

(01:01:14):
help, needs some help.
So I got into the bus and Icame to Lansing, you know,
because I had an obligationRight.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
So you helped out.
How long did you stay at therestaurant then?

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
So you helped out.
How long did you?
Stay at the restaurant then no,I didn't, I had met them before
.
I used to go to Waco, Texas.
They had a Greek church therego once a while, and then they
had a visiting priest.
They used to come to Fort Hoodonce in a while, so I had met

(01:02:04):
him.
Okay, or they had that, so Ididn't stay there.
But he says well, if you getout from the army, you know the
Greeks, they promise you a lotof things yes so you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
You came back to Lansing then and helped your
Theo.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Nico right yeah and is so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
He still had the same restaurant.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
No, do you have?
Did he have a different?
He could not work, that he hadmedical problems.
Okay, you know he lived to be96 years old and we lost the
Amagdaleny in 1961 from a heartattack.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
So but so then, what did you do when you came back?
What were you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Well, I went to work, hopefully for Fisher, but I
look around, you know, a coupleweeks, you know.
When we got out from the Armythey said I remember Captain.
Anyway, he says you have 90days to make.

(01:03:31):
And I had a couple weeks lookaround and so I went to Fisher
body apply for it.
This is you just got out fromthe army.

(01:04:10):
Yeah, this is you can startwork tonight.
You don't have to take aphysical.
So I said what work would Ihave to do?
So he took me and says well,you can work right here.

(01:04:36):
And I said sparks flying allover.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Yeah, that was what they called the pits.
That's where you weld.
You know, you got two 20-poundsof welding guns and I'm 118
pounds and flares flying about30 feet away.
And I looked there's six guysin the pits, their t-shirts

(01:05:07):
burnt and I said well, what elsedo you have to do?
He says you work there four tosix months and then you can
transfer to whatever, and I saidokay and I just walked out yeah

(01:05:32):
, it doesn't sound like a verysafe place to be.
Well now I learned that whenMark both Huey and Mark they
worked at Fisher and they didnot have to do that.
But that's the hardest job.

(01:05:56):
Yeah.
So, anyway, and I went rightacross to Uncle Harry again and
Uncle Harry says well, I needsomeone to help me with Harris.

(01:06:21):
And I said well, you know, I'mplanning to get married, you
know.
I never thought that I'd getmarried to Ria.
But I said that's my plans andwhat is for me.

(01:06:44):
And I said, well, he says youwork.
Well, no, what did I?
I said when you're ready tosell, would you give me the

(01:07:07):
first choice?
And Uncle Harry, you know, wasa man of honor, you know, would
give you a shake, right, a manof honor, you know, he'd give
you a check, figured there was.
And we made a deal that I'lltake care.
And then in 1960, there werethree license liquor license.

(01:07:45):
Uncle Harry had beer and wine.
There were three liquor licenseissued to the city of Lansing.
So I said to Uncle Harry I'mgoing to apply for liquor
license.
Oh, he says, dami, I did allright with beer and wine.
And I said I don't think thatwill do.

(01:08:13):
So I went to the city hall andput an application in.
It says how many years ofexperience you have in a
restaurant?
Oh, I said a couple years.
It says it's not enough, you'vegot to have at least five years
.
So I said five years.

(01:08:34):
Oh, uncle Harry has 45.
So I went back and I said UncleHarry, you got to apply for
this liquor license.
Oh, tommy, I did all right, Idon't need that and I said, yes,

(01:08:59):
you do.
So I convinced him he will fillup the application and it took
me eight months every Mondaynight going to the city council

(01:09:31):
night, going to the City Councilto get the license, and I
remember the one of thecouncilman says well, you gotta
change, here is here becausethere was a factory bar Right
and you've got to change it.
Put carpet in.
And yes sir, yes sir.
How stupid they were, but youhad to agree.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Yeah, yeah, but you had to agree, right, right, yeah
.
So after eight months UncleHarry got a liquor license and
on that liquor license there wasa stipulation the individual

(01:10:44):
receives that cannot sell thatliquor license unless there's
this this up and says call TomSinas to make the cell.
So you know, uncle Harry neverremembered that was from the

(01:11:13):
first day that the liquorlicense was issued to him.
Before we do that, we got tocome in into the price because

(01:11:36):
to buy it and you know the wayhe said, you give me so much
down, so much amount, triple net.
I don't want you to, maria,have to have any taxes, any

(01:12:03):
insurance, any utilities or anyof this.
And I said, okay, just tell mewhat money I have to come up.
So he was fair.
But, maria, at that time whenwe got the liquor, the business

(01:12:29):
had doubled.
She wasn't willing to departfrom you know.
But Uncle Harry says, don'tlisten to Maria.
And you know it was a blessing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Yeah, no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Still there, harry.
I think let's say 2005, 2007,.
Took a couple of.
We tried different things andyou know music I didn't like
music, it's not my cup of tea.
Full restaurant I don't want it, because when I was in Maplazan
that was full restaurant.
You had to make pies, you hadto do this and that, soups and

(01:13:42):
gravies and specials, and allthis and that, and you have to
have a chef and chefs.
They're terrible and I learnedthat by buying Johnny's.
You know where the Taco Bell ison West Side, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
There was Theo's before, yes, and then I bought
it.
That's where I made it toJohnny's.
But I was waiting to buy aliquor license and I bought a
liquor license and then made itto a.

(01:14:29):
You know, you make more moneyout of liquor because you have
no waste.
The only waste you have if yourbartender gives drinks away,
right.
And the thing with Jonas isafter spending a ton of money to

(01:14:55):
remodel it and put the bar inand all this and that All new
makeup here.

(01:15:18):
Anyway, I was talking one daymachine at Harry's and it's a
new element.
Okay, art says, but I cannot bethere after six.
I said, okay, I'll wait for you, I cannot be there after six.
I said okay, I'll wait for you.

(01:15:38):
And when we met after six hesays you know, I left Brothers
and I'm working for Taco Bell.
I said oh yeah, mike, what'ssays?

(01:16:00):
Taco Bell has 13 Taco Bells thathe owns and he wants somebody
to take care of the equipmentinside and out.
And he said he has a Taco Bellon West Side you know that was

(01:16:23):
on the right side and the guygives him a hard time and he
says he's looking for a place tomove it.
I said, well, I got to theright place here.

(01:16:46):
I was spending pretty near$400,000 to remodel it.
And he says, well, how big isit?
I said, well, it's just alittle under an acre and a half.

(01:17:08):
I said, well, he needs an acre.
Well, I cannot cut it.
I said here's my card.
Give it to Pete and if he'sinterested he can call me.
So couple days later I get acall.

(01:17:31):
This is Pete.
Whatever from Taco Bell.
You talk to Michael Gorman.
Whatever from Taco Bell.
You talk to Michael Gorman.
And I said yes.
And he says how much you wantfor the piece of property?

(01:17:55):
I said the piece of property isnot for sale.
I said I'll lease it for you.
He says how?
Much you want.
Well, at the time I said I wantat least $6,500 to pay the note

(01:18:17):
and I said another $1,500 to$2,000 for the money for myself.
Oh, it's just art, it's toomuch.
We're selling tacos for 69cents.
It's very, very expensive.

(01:18:38):
69 cents, it's very expensive.
Well, pete, that's what it is.
I said you did not make nomoney out of tacos.
You make out of money ofselling the pub and tacos.

(01:19:01):
You make a lot of money ofselling a pop.
And I said you get a pop for 10, 15 cents, a glass they cost
you and you sell it for 79, 89,99.
That's where you make yourmoney.
It says well, I cannot disputethat.

(01:19:25):
It says let me think about it.
And a couple days later it saysokay, I have an attorney, throw
the papers.
And I said don't forget, I'mnot going to spend any money

(01:19:52):
anymore to tear down thebuilding.
If you do that and if we haveto auction anything out, I get
the benefit.
And the license?
Are you going to use thelicense?

(01:20:14):
No, I said the license comesback to me, right, so that was a
good deal.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
It sounds like it, so I'm just curious so did Joni's
ever open?
Oh yeah, okay, so they wereopen and running for a while
before you.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Well, Tina was the manager, Uh-huh, and she just
had Shannon and Adam wasprobably about a year and you
know, you have about 40employees or something like that

(01:20:56):
and they're not the bestintelligent people to work with.
And I saw Tina F this F thatyou know, the cook and that's

(01:21:18):
what I said.
You know it's punishing mygirls.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Yeah, it was time to do something different, right?
So I want to go back a littlebit.
You bought the bar andrestaurant in 1965.
When did you meet Theoria?

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Well that time we were made and then we started
dating and then we got marriedin the fall of 69.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Okay, so you had already established your
business.
How did you meet?

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I met through probably church Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
And you got married in 69, and then you had how many
children.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Well, we had Johnny in 63.
Okay, 62.
And Harry.
You know, because I said to Riawe're not going to have any
kids that in three years youknow we're not going to have any

(01:22:37):
kids to be in diapers and haveyou know more, right?
So they gotta be apart.
So you know we, harriet wasborn in 65.
And Tina was born in 68.
Christopher was born in 68.

(01:22:59):
, christopher was born in 73.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Okay, all right, so you had them nicely spaced out
then.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Well, I didn't want Rhea to have kids to.
You know, two kids in diapers.
Right.
So, and if you go somewhere youdon't have to have one, he goes
, thank god, you know.
I I said to the area work hardbut enjoy life right and we used

(01:23:34):
to go two weeks every winterwhen Fisher Body was taking
those two weeks off Right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
So for people listening to this, just so they
get the idea, Harry's was rightacross from Fisher Body.
Oh yeah, and Fisher Body waslike your main business 95%.
Yes, so you would, when theywould do their changeover or
whatever, you would go onvacation, because they were all
on vacation.
Basically, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
They used to take a couple weeks off during
Christmas, New Year and a coupleweeks off during the summer for
retooling.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
So that was the opportunity for us to get
together with our family.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
So my father worked for Oldsmobile.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Well, same.
Thing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Every year in July for two weeks they would do
changeover retooling and so wewould go on vacation.
I remember those days back inthe 70s and early 80s.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Yeah well, they kept up until I don't know if they're
still doing it or I'm prettysure they're still doing it, so
it worked out good, so with fourchildren.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
So I take it Joni's was named after your daughter,
your firstborn.
After my mother, after yourmother, okay?
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
So her name was Joni Helene.
Oh, my mother, andrea's mother.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Yeah, well, that's nice, that's.
You know, bill, I never, youknow.
I know I get a little bit.
I call it sentimental oremotional, but I never regret

(01:25:50):
the tough times.
I always I said it's a betterday tomorrow.
I always, you know, enjoy andthank God that it worked that
way.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Well, I think those tough times make you who you are
right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Sometimes you go through those things and it you
know they say well, it dependswhat you're associating with.
Yeah, you can associatesomebody that you can learn, or

(01:26:36):
you can associate somebodythat's down to the dumps.
Which one you want to be?

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Yeah, I want to learn right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
You know, like when my and one of my father's
brothers, my father's brothers,see we're talking, one time it
says, well, tell me, art, how doin USA, how do you doing over

(01:27:19):
there?
I said, thea, I'm living thelife of a prince, beautiful, you
know.
Mm-hmm.
And thank God that you know tohave the health and to do the

(01:27:42):
things that's good for everybody, good for your family, and
don't try to hurt anybody.
Try to help somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
Try to help somebody Well, and also for people
listening to this, when you talkabout health.
You're 90 years old and I knowthat you do your own landscaping
and you take care of yourproperty.
You do a lot of things thatsome people don't understand how

(01:28:17):
you can do it, but I think it'sbecause you've.
I think it's because you'vemaintained your health and you
have a healthy attitude towardslife.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
God bless.
If you don't have good health,you got nothing.
Right.
So thank the Almighty forbestowing good health on you.
Absolutely.
We had our ups and downs withhealth, but thanks to the good

(01:28:44):
doctors too.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Yeah, well, they're here for a reason.
Yeah.
I want to talk a little bitabout your family, so tell me
about your children, sure Well,or tell me what you'd like to
share about your children.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
I love them all.
Yeah.
I'll tell you we're blessed.
We're having, you know, ofcourse, losing Johnny.
That was devastating.
Yeah.
But, thank God, we got Terri,tina and Christopher.
We got Haria, tina andChristopher.

(01:29:20):
We could not ask for betterchildren.
Haria is married, has threechildren herself and she's she's

(01:29:41):
the joy of my heart, tina.
She's married, she has twochildren of her own and one of
her husband, which is more thanher own child, and she's Tina
the Terror.
She's hardworking, intelligentyou name it and Christopher, of

(01:30:07):
course, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
Oh, I know.
Yes, well, I know all three ofthem actually, but yes.
Christopher, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
The only thing I used to say to him son, go ahead,
get married, settle down.
Son, go ahead, get married,settle down.
But now today he's going toPortugal.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Yeah, for two weeks.
Well, all of your children workvery hard.
They're hard workers.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Oh, absolutely.
And they say, God, that welearned from you to take pride
of our work and take pride ofour family.
Mm-hmm.
And the what's the proper word?
They say the Todas.

(01:31:01):
Oh, anyway, some of those words, you know it has an effect of.
When I had, six years ago, thisstroke, it took away from my
memory.
I used to, you know, peopleused to write down the old days,

(01:31:28):
the telephone numbers.
I wrote it down once and thatwas it.
I remember it.
When I used to call differentsuppliers or different people, I

(01:31:54):
used to say I've a hole.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
You remember the old days, the I've a hole.
Yeah, so you had two lettersand then numbers, right.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:58):
Yeah, Now I'm a little young for that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Oh, you're way, way different generation.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Yes, but I know what you're talking about because I
remember my parents talkingabout it.
Yes, we still had a party linewhen I was a kid, where people
shared.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
Listen listen, listen to somebody else yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
Or someone would listen and you could tell when
they were listening to your elseyes, yes, or someone would
listen and you could tell whenthey were listening to your
conversations.
So yeah, I do remember that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
But well, thank God it's still, I can find my way
around.
Let's put it that way it'simportant, that's very important
.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
I want to talk a little bit about you too.
So you Harry's Place is stillrunning strong and that's still
in the family.
But you've had otherrestaurants and other businesses
and you've been very successful.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
Well, I don't know if that's what you call it Bill,
that what you call it, bill, butI know I used to get involved
with different things, yes, andI used to get upset.
When I find difficulties, Istart out with Harry's and then

(01:33:24):
Uncle Nick had a piece ofproperty on Beverly and Grand
River and he was trying torezone it and he had opposition
from the neighbors.
He had opposition from theneighbors and he says to me we

(01:33:48):
tried to resolve this and theseneighbors, they were objecting,

(01:34:12):
and I said who's these neighbors?
Oh, this is Mr Colbert.
And I went there, talked to himin 1968, and I said to him Mr

(01:34:34):
Colbert, would you like to sellthis raw land?
He says I would.
And I says I would.
And I said, okay, I'll give youthat time.
You know there was, I'll giveyou $15,000 for it.

(01:34:56):
Oh, no, it's just, I don't know, it's 2025.
We agree anyway in 17, in 1968,which it was good money, right,
and I said, well, I'll tell youwhat I will do.
I'll give you a down paymentand I'll pay you every month

(01:35:21):
down payment and I pay you everymonth.
So there was a deal that tookaway.
You know, fox Island is an wellthey used to own by Mr

(01:35:42):
Bartleville and when I bought itthey brought it up to and there
was nobody Against it andthat's where Jim Fox bought it
and put Fox Island and thoseapartments.
So from there I Failed the 1978Louv La Hague Lucas and I built

(01:36:08):
those 40 units on.
Journey Circle and I kept thefront that I put in later on the
Arvanites Retail Center and Isold it last year Because now I
sold just about everything andfrom there we got to East

(01:36:34):
Lansing.
I used to say to Theoria, I'llnever get involved in another
project.
And then a couple months lateranother idea was coming and then
I get involved and she sayswhat happened when you said that

(01:36:54):
I'll never get involved withanother project, well, I said
that was then.

Speaker 1 (01:37:01):
Yeah, this is now right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
Yeah, well, we had a lot of fun.
I don't know, Christopher.
He asked me one time says howmany projects you get involved?
And I said I don't know, son,and really I never really sat

(01:37:30):
down because I traded Like whenwe bought Johnny's, theo's out,
I traded him with an officebuilding I had on michigan
avenue and uh, weverly west fromuh, michigan avenue.

(01:37:52):
Yeah, there was an officebuilding there.
I ran that office building fora few years and and then there
was a time there and I said,well, I'll sell that one to get

(01:38:15):
that one.
You know so Right.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
A lot of wheeling and dealing.
It sounds like lots of so.
So were you and louis of lajaca's business partners for a
while then uh, we were for thefor 2000 building and hagedorn
and grand river.

(01:38:40):
Okay on Hagedorn and GrandRiver.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
Okay, and then when we were, we built the apartments
and Louis at that time says Igot to get out from the
apartments so we can buy theGolden Gate with Jim Christofil.

(01:39:04):
Yeah, and then John Christofilhad it later.
So, yeah, we were in twoprojects with Louie.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
Okay, but it sounds like there's a lot of businesses
around like Lansing and EastLansing that you had a part of
then.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
Yeah, I started with Lake Lansing.
I had bought 40 acres of LakeLansing back in 71, 72, to put a

(01:39:54):
mobile home park in there.
And then Bill what was it?
Bill Sod, or that was the drain.
Commissioner for AM County.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
That was probably before my time.
I was born in 65, so yeah,somewhere yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
Yeah, you were a young man.
He came in I bought it for 40grand on land contract and they

(01:40:46):
because there was two differentcells they came in and they
wanted to drain, and it saysthey wanted to drain the Lake
Lansing.

(01:41:07):
Oh, they went to Mr White whichhad some, you know, a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
White Hills.
Yeah, yeah, he built a lot ofhomes in East Lansing.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
He, and then he will never let them put a drench, all
the debris and everything.
And so it says to me I willgive you $80,000.

(01:41:46):
And I said no.
As a matter of fact, he cameinto the old Harry's before I
remodeled and you know we'redealing and wheeling back and

(01:42:06):
forth, and it says well, mypeople said that we will not
give you no more than 80 grand,but we'll.

(01:42:26):
I think there was.
The beginning was yeah, I saidto make a golf course After we
drench it.
You can have that and make agolf course.
And I said make a golf course.
And I said make a golf course.
You know it'll take a lot ofmoney and 40 acres, it's not a

(01:42:52):
big golf course, right?
So I said give me $120,000 andyou can have it.
This was at Harry's.
And he says no, there's no waywe're going to give you $120,000
.
So I said you're wasting mytime then.

(01:43:16):
And then he goes to thetelephone, which there was a
telephone booth inside Harry'swith a pay phone, right yeah, it
says okay, we'll give you 120.

(01:43:39):
That was one of the deals, so Iwant to make sure I understand
this.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
You bought it on land that was one of the deals.
So I want to make sure Iunderstand this.
So you bought it on landcontracts, so you didn't really
completely own it yet, but youtripled your money by making
that sale.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
Wow, wow.
Oh yeah, louie Mike and Ibought 17 acres on Jolly Road
for having something with theArmy.

Speaker 1 (01:44:16):
Oh yeah, the enlistment building there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Yeah, we bought it for $170 on a land contract and
we sold it to 17 acres to theArmy enlisted for $570.

(01:44:41):
Wow, wow, then I took thatmoney.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
You know, take it from one, put it to the other
Right Always investing in yourown business too.
So that's.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
Yeah, well, if you don't take no chances, you know
not all like the East Lansing.
You know, not all like the EastLansing.
We had bought that FortunityHouse back in 72.

(01:45:34):
And you know we had thosepsychologists in there.
Well, in 20, in 2025 yearslater, that building was
obsolete to for office.
Right, so we took a chance andwe spent a lot of money.
But you know, we wanted to notto have an office building but

(01:46:06):
to have a little retail center.
We figure, with Michigan State,a little retail center will do
much better, like a pizza placeand a 7-Eleven or something like
that.
But the city said no, yeah,yeah.

(01:46:29):
So I don't know I was.
You know we had heard GM wasgoing to put a tunnel from
Fisher Body to Oldsmobile forsetting the bodies over.

(01:46:56):
Right so we went and bought withGus and I and Bill Gus I had
brought him from Fisherbody towork back in 1965 I was a Greek
boy and we bought his cousinBill from Montreal.

(01:47:24):
He was from Greece to Germanyto Montreal to here, to at that
time to be the cook or the cheffor Harry's.
But I told him, you know, wecan do things together, and we

(01:47:50):
can because you know to pay bigwages is not feasible, right,
but if we do other things, andwe agree, and we bought nine,

(01:48:14):
ten pieces of properties rightunder Rosemary and what's the
other street there.
Anyway, all that in one section.
If Fisherbody had to make amove, they had to see us first.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
Right, right, they never built that tunnel, though,
did they?
No, but you were able to movethe properties, right, yeah,
right, they never built thattunnel, though did they, but you
were able to move theproperties right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Yeah, yeah, oh, after well, I told Gus and Bill yeah,
there were nine pieces ofproperty and we put a price on

(01:49:05):
all of them.
But I said make a package.
If you get the or B property orC property, it's equal value
Not to have one up and one Right.
And then I set them on thetable and that time we had those

(01:49:38):
big cigarette trays, uh-huh,and I had made on paper.
I had wrote property A is worth$25,000.
Property B is worth $25,000.
Property C worth $25,000.

(01:49:59):
It was worth $25,000.
Property C worth $25,000.
And I said that we'll shake itup, we'll put it in the ashtray
and under the table and that'sit.
And you take it and shake it,and I take it and shake it, and

(01:50:23):
Bill take it, or Gus, and thenyou draw it.
And I said, bill, you're theoldest, you want to draw.
No, I said Gus, you want todraw because I'm going to be the
last one.
I don't want guys to say well,you knew which one to Right.

(01:50:46):
And I said I don't want youguys to.
So I says okay, gus, he, yeah,all that he got.
Or Gus's bar West on WestMichigan Avenue right next to
Safeway.
Yeah, he got that one and I gotthree of his property.

(01:51:12):
I sold them later on, you knowWell, in matter of fact, I have
one of the houses that's rightacross from the Union Hall, the
602.
Yeah.
Right across the street that Igave it to Harry.

(01:51:32):
I said you know, I'm not goingto take care of it.
I used to take care of it, youknow go, I used to take care of
it, you know go.
I said Hugh is going to youknow you and Matthew, it's your
house now.
So you know.

(01:51:55):
Same thing, the Genesee house Icall it Because I had bought
all the properties around Harris.
Yeah, that way back in 70s theyused to complain.
The neighbors complained thaton 2.30, the bar was closing,

(01:52:23):
people they were drinking in theparking lot.
Or Fisher Body was, I don'tknow if you remember when Fisher
Body had those old windows, yes, and they closed all the
windows because the neighborswere complaining, because the
neighbors were complaining.
So I had bought three housesaround and a lot behind.

(01:52:51):
So I used it as a buffer zone.

Speaker 1 (01:52:53):
Right, nobody can complain because it's your
property, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53:35):
Even though I used to buy it on a land contract.
I remember, yeah, I got 15 forthat one, 17 for the other house
behind it, mm-hmm.
So and those I did pay cashbecause for 17,.

(01:53:58):
For six months, for six monthsthat his son's trying to close
the estate and I said to himwhen he agreed, I said one

(01:54:20):
stipulation, said what's that,the old grand piano that you
have in there?
I want it for the same price.
So he gave me the piano andthat time I got a couple guys

(01:54:42):
from Fisher Body, strong guys,because it's heavy, right now
it's out in the garage.
I said I don't know anythingabout music and Ria knows
nothing about music.
I want my kids to learn music,so Ria knew nothing about it.

(01:55:11):
I took the piano, put it onShannon's Lane At that time we
were living on Shannon's Laneand Ria says what is that?
And I said piano.
That the kids couldn't learn toplay the piano.

(01:55:32):
I don't know.
That was probably.
I don't think Christopher wasborn yet, I don't know and all
three of them learned music.

Speaker 1 (01:55:47):
That's great.
Yeah, that is.
Yeah, that is.

Speaker 2 (01:55:53):
A lot of funny things happen in life, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
Yeah, that's a great story, though I mean that's
fantastic.
So we've talked about a lot ofstuff today.
We've covered a lot of things.
Is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you
want to talk about?
Is there anything that we'vemissed?

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
Well, you know, have God bestow us with good health
till the time comes to leavethis earth.
I think that's probably Ria andI, and all of us wish not to be

(01:56:41):
a burden to anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:56:47):
Well then, I want to ask you one more question, and
then we'll stop for the day.
So I ask everyone the samequestion, and that is you know,
years from now, when people arelistening to these stories of
people's lives, what would youlike?
What message would you leavefor people?

(01:57:11):
What, what piece of advicewould you give to people that
are going to hear this?

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
years from now?
Well, I don't know.
Work hard, be happy and enjoylife.
You know, be honest to yourfellow citizens, don't harm

(01:57:35):
anybody, don't harm you.
So I don't know, bill.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
I think that's good.
I think that's good.
Well, thanks for taking theafternoon and sitting here
answering all my questions.
I've learned so much about younow.
This has been really good.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
Well, I'm glad that you came over and we spent
pretty near.
This has been really good.
Well, I'm glad that you cameover and we spent pretty near
two hours almost, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
Yeah, it's been a little time it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
I like it.
Now I get to know you and youget to know me.

Speaker 1 (01:58:12):
I do, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:58:14):
I do, it's fantastic.