May 15, 2025 • 65 mins
What happens when a natural leader desperately tries to avoid the spotlight? Shirley Adams never wanted to stand out, but life had other plans. From being volunteered as platoon leader in Army basic training to becoming an HR executive decades later, leadership positions kept finding her despite her best efforts to remain invisible.
Born in Detroit in 1965 before moving to Orlando as a child, Shirley joined the Army in 1983 on the "buddy program" with her best friend when she discovered the Navy had a year-long waiting period for female recruits. What followed was a journey through military service as an Army cook in Germany, an unexpected pregnancy that led to an honorable discharge, and the beginning of civilian life as a young mother navigating the challenges of an unhealthy first marriage.
When Shirley took what she thought would be a temporary production job at Correct Craft boat manufacturing where her father worked, she couldn't have imagined it would become a 27-year career trajectory that would see her rise through purchasing into human resources and eventually senior leadership. Along the way, she began college at 39, earned her MBA at 47, and discovered her gift for organization during international mission trips.
Shirley's story is a powerful reminder of life's unexpected paths. Now working as an HR Director at a Presbyterian church after "retiring" at 50, she balances caring for grandchildren and supporting her husband through Alzheimer's while teaching as an adjunct professor. Her message resonates with clarity: "Don't operate out of fear. If you don't know something, learn it. Be a lifelong learner... It's never too late, and put yourself outside your comfort zone. You'll be so richly rewarded."
Join us for this compelling conversation about resilience, faith, reluctant leadership, and embracing the opportunities that arrive when we least expect them. Subscribe to hear more stories of ordinary people living extraordinary lives through service and purpose.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So today is Tuesday, May 13th.
We're talking with ShirleyAdams, who served in the United
States Army.
So good morning, Shirley.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Great to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And you know, after talking with you on the phone
and realizing that you knew myson, this is kind of an honor
for me.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
So I'm very excited.
Well, you should be.
You have a great son.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
He is absolutely adorable.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Thank you, I like him too.
Yeah, he's a good kid, but notjust because I'm his dad, yeah,
so we'll start out really simplethis morning.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I was born in Detroit , Michigan, on March 17th 1965.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Okay, all right.
Just a month before me,actually, I was born.
April 7th 1965.
Okay, Not Detroit, though InLansing.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
In.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Lansing.
Okay, yeah, so did you grow upin Detroit?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Until I was seven, my parents moved down here.
We lived in Detroit and therewas a lot of turbulence going on
in Detroit during those yearsand my grandfather lived here in
Orlando, and so he said hey,come down to Orlando, I'll get
you a job where I work.
And we moved here in 1972.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh, okay, so any brothers or sisters?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I have a sister who is 11 months younger than me.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, okay, so you're the older sister.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Do you act like an older sister?
Just curious.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Always.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
All right, I would expect nothing less.
Yeah, my wife is an oldersister and I have an older
sister, and they're very similarin those respects.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, the older sister.
They're expected, a lot more isexpected of them.
Yep, so do you have manymemories of Detroit when you
were growing up?
Yes, like good memories ofgoing to my grandparents' house
and I think probably.
Well, I remembertrick-or-treating as a kid and
(01:48):
it was always very cold, unlikehere where it can be pretty warm
.
Yeah, so stuff like that.
And then we would go back andvisit, of course, family.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh, okay, All right.
And what about your parents?
Tell me a little bit about them.
What did your dad do and what?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
did your mom do?
My mom was born in Detroit andshe ended up retiring.
She was a nurse as a retirednurse and then my dad.
He had to quit school reallyyoung to take care of his mom,
but his dad lived here and so weended up moving here when I was
(02:27):
seven and so he ended up goingto work for Correct Craft, which
is a boat manufacturing company, because his dad worked there
and then ultimately in the end,I ended up working there as well
, for 27 years, so kind of afamily thing.
It was a family thing.
Yep.
And my son ended up workingthere for a little bit too.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, it's kind of good that he was able to I mean
because I know it was.
Things were getting pretty badin Detroit at that time.
It's kind of nice that he wasable to come down here and find
work and be able to raise afamily.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Jobs were hard during that time and so you know,
trying to find a good job and,and, and he did, and he stayed
until he retired.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, so tell me about growing up in Florida in
the seventies.
I mean, I remember growing upin Michigan in the seventies.
I think it was probablycompletely different.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, it was.
Yes, disney was still new,disney had just opened right
before we came here and itwasn't nearly as crowded, of
course, as it is now Right, andthere were tons of orange groves
everywhere.
So we used to play in theorange groves right near here,
(03:39):
and I actually grew up in ahouse not too far from here and
we would go play hide andseek inthe orange groves.
So it was a little bitdifferent.
You came in when the lights.
You know when my dad would saycome in, when the street lights
come on, you better be in thehouse.
Right.
And other than that, it was, youknow, riding your bicycles
every day and swimming every day, and, you know, during the
(04:02):
summer we were in the pool allthe time.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So lots of sun.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yep Lots of friends.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, it was great, it was agood life.
Well good.
How was school?
School for me was I was okay,just average, uh-huh.
I did ROTC when I was in highschool, cause I always wanted to
(04:28):
join the Navy because there wasa Navy base, a recruiting base
here.
Uh-huh.
And, um, I remember driving pastthey had like a big replica of
a you know a warship there andwhere they were training the
soldiers and you could go drivepast there and see the soldiers
they were in.
They were in basic training andyou know, they were marching
(04:51):
and stuff and I'm like I want todo that one day.
And so got into high school andmy high school had Navy ROTC
and loved it.
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh well, so was there ?
Was there military in yourfamily, or was?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
this Wow, I'm the first one.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
All right.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, you didn't end up joining the Navy though.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I didn't join the Navy.
Uh got to senior year of highschool and time to make that
commitment and um, coming out,the Navy had a one-year waiting
period for women going in.
Oh.
And when you're 18, a yearsounds like a long time.
And my best friend was also inROTC with me and her dad was
(05:38):
retired Air Force and we decided, for whatever reason, we were
going to join the Army, becausethe Army was taking girls right
away.
Yeah, and so we joined the Army.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
On the buddy program.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
On the buddy program.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Which only guarantees to keep you together through
AIT.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Okay, all right, they're pretty good with that
guarantee.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, we were in basic training together.
We went into basic trainingtogether and, um it, like any
friendship there's always seemsto be like one person who's
stronger over the other has astronger personality and, and my
friend had a really strongpersonality.
I am the laid back, easygoingperson and so I just wanted to
(06:28):
make it through basic training,you know, without being seen.
So, you know, I was just hopingI could go in there, you know,
because being yelled at is nothigh on my list of things that I
enjoy.
And so when they asked, youknow, right in through basic
training, they asked who canmarch, who knows how to march,
(06:49):
who was in band or who was inROTC?
I did not raise my hand and Iwas pretty tall already, so I
was already in the back row forgirls at that time and I didn't
raise my hand.
But you know, my friendCharlotte boy, her hand went
straight up, you know, and shewas all about being in charge
and whatnot, and so they werepicking, you know, platoon
(07:12):
leaders and squad leaders andall that stuff.
So they're doing squad leaders,I think, first, and she became
a squad leader and I'm just fine, sit standing in the back and
one day.
We're in line, we're information and the drill sergeant
comes right up behind me and mymaiden name is Oakley and he's
like Oakley be in my office atwhatever time.
(07:34):
I thought I was going to dieand I'm like what is going on?
So I show up in the office andhe and the other drill sergeant
were there.
We had two drill sergeants andhe's like we noticed you know
how to march.
I'm like oh dang.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So much for under the radar, huh.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So much for under the radar.
And so they said, well, we'regoing to make you the platoon
leader.
And I'm like, oh no, this isnot what I wanted at all.
Right, and it wasn't an option.
Right, it wasn't an option.
And so I ended up staying theplatoon leader the entire time,
(08:13):
which was fine.
I think that wasn't the firsttime that that had happened,
where I had been put in like aleadership position just out of
the blue.
It actually happened in highschool too, because when I was
in ROTC one summer, theyactually took us out and they
did a uh, we did a week's worthof of basic training in the Navy
(08:34):
ROTC, and the same thinghappened there.
Sort of, they made me the, theleader of that group, um, even
though I didn't want it, and so,yeah, that sort of did it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So it sounds like people see in you this
leadership quality.
That's just there.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I don't know, I don't think they do Try to be quiet.
Yeah, get through.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Well, some of the best leaders are chosen, not the
people that raise their handsand try and be leaders, right?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Actually, basic training put a little bit of a
strain on our friendship on.
Charlotte's friendship andbecause she wanted to be the
leader and I didn't, and so thenI ended up being the leader
over her and I mean it was finebut, as I started, I was like
wow, you can be reallyirritating, and so we're still
(09:23):
friends now.
I can only take her in smalldoses.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well, and I think you see it from a different
perspective right, when you're aleader and you're ultimately
responsible, you start to kindof see the things that people do
that maybe you didn't see whenyou were flying under the radar.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
That is true.
Yeah, very true.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So basic training was what?
Was it?
12 weeks.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It was eight weeks.
Yeah, pretty true.
So basic training was what?
Was it?
12 weeks?
It was eight weeks, eight weeks, okay, yeah, because that was
the 80s.
Yeah, so I went in and we leftfor basic training the day after
Thanksgiving 1983.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Interesting.
I think the military does that.
I went to basic training theday after Christmas in 1984.
I took a gap year before I didanything.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I think the horrible thing, though, was because it
was Christmas they sent us homefrom basic training for a week.
How hard was that.
That was horrible.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean not coming home.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Coming home was great .
Speaker 1 (10:17):
You knew you had to go back though, but going back
was traumatic.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, it was horrible .
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's like going to basic training all over again.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's horrible.
It's like going to basictraining all over again.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I think they did extend us out, maybe a couple of
weeks because of that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Okay, did you go to Fort Jackson?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I did Okay, relaxing in Jackson.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's where all the women went in the 80s, I think.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I believe so.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
There were a lot of us.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The military was really just starting to
integrate males and females atthe time.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, we would have.
The only time that we saw themales was potentially near chow
time, because they were havingchow at the same time, but other
than that they kept us prettywell separated.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, probably not a bad idea yeah, probably not yeah
.
Yeah, so you get through basictraining.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I did get through basic training.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
And you were there kind of at a good time of year,
right.
It wasn't ridiculously hot andsweaty, it was pretty cold yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And it was really cold.
They would have like heatingtents where they'd have to take
us in there just to warm us upokay, yeah, anything else stand
out in basic training or anyother um, I um, well, I had to
go to like little extra bootcamp because I wasn't really
great at push-ups and.
(11:42):
And so, after the day was over,you'd have to go do weight
training, and those of us thatgot selected out but just had to
make it through the minimum forpush-ups.
But other than that it was fine.
I didn't really.
I mean, I learned a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And so you did you come homebetween basic and AIT, or did
you just go right to AIT?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Went straight to AIT.
My mom and my stepdad and mysister came up for graduation.
I think we got an afternoonwith them after graduation and I
don't think we had the next day.
I think it was really just thatone day, yeah, and then right
on into AIT.
It was really just that one dayand then right on into AIT.
(12:28):
But going back to MEPS, whenyou're choosing what you're
going to be, so the recruiterswere trying to get me to become
an MP because of my height.
But my friend Charlotte wasshort and needed to lose weight
before we could even get tobasic training, and so I had
(12:49):
thought or we had thought, Idon't know who thought it up,
maybe her because she was astronger personality I thought
one day I wanted to own my ownrestaurant.
I'm trying to think farther outahead what can I get out of
this?
And I was like, oh you know,owning a my own restaurant would
be a something really cool.
And so, um, we ended upbecoming army cooks.
(13:12):
Now, charlotte's dad wasfurious because he was an
officer in the air force oh yeahand um, but charlotte had fewer
options than I did, and so I'mbeing so okay, well, we'll do
this.
I'm thinking all right how hardis it to be a cook?
It cannot be that hard.
(13:33):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
It's ridiculously hard.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It is ridiculously hard.
There's a lot to learn, but thething is is you're on,
everybody's got to eat threetimes a day, and guess when the
cooks start in the morning?
They start at two and they donot finish until they're done
cleaning after dinner.
(14:00):
And so if you're lucky enoughto be in a unit that has enough
cooks to have two shifts, goodto go.
But if you're not, it is tiring.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work and doggoneit.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
They got to eat seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's right.
Yeah, that doesn't stop.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah it doesn't stop, so it was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, and so how is AIT for cooks?
A lot of math actually.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, it's a lot of math, because you're trying to
learn how to use this industrialequipment without chopping off
all your fingers equipmentwithout chopping off all your
fingers.
But then it's taking theserecipes and either multiplying
them or contracting them, youknow with math, of course, but
(14:54):
other than that it was.
You know it was fine and justyou know learning regulations is
actually a lot into it to makesure you're not giving somebody
food poisoning.
Right right.
More difficult than Ianticipated.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And I think it's funny because I remember math in
high school thinking I'll neveruse this Me too.
I'm not an army cook, but I doa lot of cooking and I find
myself using algebra all thetime, right right To solve for
either upscaling or downscalinga recipe.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
My biggest problem in downscaling after I got out of
the military was mashed potatoes.
Like we had lots of mashedpotatoes.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Scale that down now.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, you don't need mashed potatoes for 100 people.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Exactly.
That's funny, but I mean I canwhip up a meal for a bunch of
people.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Uh-huh.
That's funny because I rememberwhen I first got married a long
time ago, I was used to cookingfor a family, and it was just
her and I, and we had moved toVirginia Beach.
So I'm cooking nachos for eight10 people and it's just the two
of us.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I think we both gained a few pounds because of
that and you will gain a fewpounds while you're doing that.
Because, yeah, you've got totaste test everything, right.
And then when I was in myregular unit, we would eat like
before and after.
So you have to be careful youdon't eat twice.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Right, exactly Right.
Two dinners, two breakfasts,exactly Whatever it is.
So how long was your AIT?
Twice Right, exactly Right.
Two dinners, two breakfastswhatever it is.
So you uh, you get so how longwas your AIT?
Ait was also eight weeks?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Okay, yeah, and then from what?
So?
What happens from there?
So, what happens from there?
We're in a formation and, um,they're just uh, naming out
where you're going where you'rebeing stationed because you have
no idea where you're going togo and Charlotte and I both got
sent to Germany.
We were going to Germany, sothen you get to come home.
(16:55):
They sent us home for a week inbetween AIT and then being sent
over to Germany, and so thenwent into Ramstein and then into
Frankfurt and then got sent toour base, which was in
Gelnhausen.
Charlotte ended up staying inFrankfurt, and then I went to a
(17:15):
tiny little base in Gelnhausen,germany.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Right, that didn't have enough cooks for two shifts
.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, sometimes we did.
Sometimes we would jointogether with other units so
that we could make it, becauseyou can't do that for very long
without having a break.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Right, I can only imagine, or we would take turns
for the weekends for thedifferent units, because I was
in an HHC unit.
Okay, and how was Germany?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Gorgeous, beautiful, cold, but Cold, but absolutely
beautiful.
The base that I was at used tobe a World War II German base
and so it was gorgeous and thebarracks were like block.
I mean, it was just veryidyllic.
(18:03):
It had cobblestone streetsstill in the middle of it and it
had this beautiful like pondthat used to be a swimming pool
for officers.
So it was really very, uh,different.
Um, uh, and it was, and thecountryside was just really
hilly, just gorgeous, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, so did you have off time to enjoy all of that?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I did have off time.
In fact that's how I met myfirst husband.
He was also in the military, wewere in the same unit and he
was a mechanic and so, yeah, youwould get to go on your off
time and, of course, weekendsyou would get to go on your off
time and, of course, weekendsyou would get to go.
I would go to Frankfurt tovisit Charlotte, and a couple of
my other friends were nearbythat went to basic training, but
(18:53):
then you got to go into thecountryside.
It was really very pretty.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh, I've never been in Germany.
I've talked to a lot of peoplewho have I want to go back.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, how about that I?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
went on the Rhine River and my first husband,
stephen he had his car wasshipped over to him, so we went
on the Autobahn, which was scary.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Don't like driving fast, no.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Got to go to a couple of castles.
Yeah, yeah, very pretty yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Is there anything about Germany that really stands
out to you, Like if you thinkabout back to that, what's like
one thing that's just reallysticks in your head?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Um.
So Steven and I actually endedup.
We we um got married, but welived off post, and I think what
stands out to me most is justthe little town of Gelnhausen.
They would roll up the streetspractically at 12 o'clock on
Saturdays and then there wasnothing happening all through
(19:54):
Sunday.
So, it was just very more laidback.
I think the other thing thatstands out to me about Germany
was the people in southernGermany were much more welcoming
of Americans than the people innorthern Germany were.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Oh, Wow, do you think that's because in northern
Germany that was more of afighting thing and in southern
Germany it was more of aliberation thing?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It could be.
Yeah, it definitely could be,because it was only the 80s.
So now you're only talkingabout 35, 40 years since the end
of the war Still not enoughtime, I don't think had passed.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Which is interesting because you talk about World War
II now.
It seems so far away.
So far away, but when we weregrowing up, you know, Vietnam
was kind of still going on.
Right.
And it had maybe just ended,but World War II was still
something.
There was lots of movies madeabout it.
People still talked about it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, I mean, when you went to Frankfurt you could
see in the buildings themselvesin downtown Frankfurt where they
had literally built on top ofthe ruins, and so you would have
like this much where you couldsee the original foundation of
the building and then where theyjust built up and it's just was
pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, you probably wouldn't even see that today.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
No, you wouldn't even notice it today.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It's all gone.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
But they would tell you about it then.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Absolutely yeah, yeah .
So how long were you in Germany?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I guess it would have been about a year, a year and a
half, a little over a year anda half.
About a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay, and then so did you rotate back stateside or
did you get out of the Army?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So, when.
Stephen and I got married.
I was pregnant and at that time, because we were in a tiny
village, we did have a medicalunit there, but nothing that was
spectacular.
You'd have to go back toFrankfurt to get a real doctor
and the first question they askyou is are you going to have an
(22:13):
abortion?
That was the very first questionin 1984, late 1984.
And I said no, and so then Ionly had a few options back then
.
They were not as you weretalking about.
Women were still just reallybeing integrated into the
(22:34):
military.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
There was no, they didn't have a plan.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No, basically, it's a great way to get kicked out.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, so you didn't get kicked out.
You had a couple of options.
One you could have an abortion.
Right.
Number two because I was in anHAC unit.
We would go to the field allthe time at the drop of a pin to
do our planned war games andyou had to be ready to go in 15
minutes.
Right.
Well, if you've got a child, youbetter have a good support
(23:04):
system.
I didn't have that supportsystem over there, and most
wives of other military menthought you were trying to steal
their husband, and so they werenone too friendly towards you.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
None too friendly.
The third option was send yourchild home.
Let somebody else raise yourchild Well, my parents were
working and that's not what Iwas going to do or you could
take an honorable discharge.
That was really my only option.
So I took an honorable dischargeand stayed, I think, all the
(23:40):
way until they didn't dischargeme, until I was like seven
months pregnant, but because Ididn't have they did not have, I
didn't have an OB, I did nothave regular medical care I
ended up getting like reallysick.
I had a really bad kidneyinfection when I was being
discharged.
Oh.
And that was horrible.
(24:02):
So I remember flying home I wasreally sick and my kidney was
so swollen it was like halfsticking out my back.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, so then they flew me home, flew back to Fort
Jackson to get out processed,still didn't see a doctor, and
then they flew me home and thatnight I'm like you've got to
take me to the hospital and so,because I was still the military
(24:32):
was still actually in charge ofmy care, we went to the Navy
base, the Navy hospital here inOrlando, and of course I think I
spent a week in the hospitaland yeah, and then ultimately
she ended up being born there.
Oh okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So your daughter is your oldest.
My daughter is my oldest.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And so the military paid for the birth and I think I
had to pay for the diapers,which was like maybe three bucks
at the time.
So she was pretty cheap, shewas a bargain.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, not a bad deal.
So she was born in 85?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
She was born in July of 85.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, so I missed, like this, window of being able
to have military benefitsbecause I wasn't in a full.
I missed the full two years.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
By a few months.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's too bad.
They can't change some of that.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It's all in the past, right it's all in the past,
yeah.
Yeah, so you get out now, didyour husband.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So it turns out, the timing was really incredible.
He was coming, he was finishingup eight years, so he finished
up his eight years likeliterally right at the end of
the pregnancy, and so heactually made it home right
before the baby was born.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Oh well, that's kind of nice.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
The timing was could not.
I don't even know how you planthat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, divineintervention.
Divine intervention which Itruly of nice.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
The timing was could not.
I don't even know how you planthat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Divineintervention.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Divine intervention which I truly believe in.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that happens.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It happens.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So your daughter's born, your husband's back, yep,
what's the next phase?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So the next phase is, you know, he's.
We moved in with my dad for alittle bit as we tried to
transition, as he wastransitioning out of the
military, and then Jennifer wasborn.
So it was boom, boom, boom allhappening at the same time.
And then he is fromMassachusetts and he had worked
(26:36):
for Marshall's department storeprior to going into the military
.
Okay, and so when he got out ofthe military, marshall's hired
him back to going into themilitary.
Okay, and so when he got out ofthe military, marshall's hired
him back as a store manager, andso but then they transferred us
to Jacksonville, and so whenshe was, when the baby was
pretty little, we ended upmoving to Jacksonville.
(26:57):
Okay.
And lived there for a couple ofyears.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Uh-huh, and then you had another baby in there
somewhere.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Then I had another baby, yep, 14 months later,
along comes my son Eric, and Iwas still pretty young, because
I was 20 when I had Jennifer.
Yeah.
And then 21, when I had Eric.
And then I remember my momcoming up to Jacksonville.
They had taken Jennifer for aweek so that I could have some
(27:27):
bonding time with the new babyand then when they brought her
back and they left, I think Icried because I'm like what am I
going to do if they both cry atthe same time?
Right, oh, frightening, I wasonly 21.
Yeah, right.
Oh frightening, I was only 21.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Well, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily
get that about folks who jointhe military right.
You joined right out of highschool, kind of like you, and I
did, yeah, I was 18.
Yeah, you do a ton of stuff.
Yeah, on an acceleratedcalendar.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right and by the time you're 25, like you've had
whole life experience, right?
The people who are your agedon't get right right like how
are you having kids at 20 and 21and being married and doing all
the?
You're an adult, but you'restill a kid right yeah right now
.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I look at them I'm like, wow, you're just a baby.
Yeah, I was fully on an adult,making big decisions and all the
things.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Now you have two kids .
As they got older, though, werethey close enough in age that
they my sister and I?
I think we're 18 months apart.
And we were friends when wewere little, so once we got past
that screaming, crying stage,you know we were able to
entertain each other.
Was that kind of the same foryou or not?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Not really, because there's so polar opposites in
many things.
So my daughter, jennifer, isthe, you know she knew what she
wanted to be from a very youngage.
She wanted to be a teacher andyou know, just really book smart
and reading all the time andall that stuff.
And my son, god bless him, um,you know I it's a miracle he
(29:15):
graduated from high school buthe was full on boy, wanted to be
outside in sports and, uh,break in parts of his body.
You know, rough and tumble.
Right so they were reallytotally opposite.
Now they got along, but theywere not close friends.
They were not friends.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
They ran in two totally different circles.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you're married, your you're.
You're married, your husband'sworking, you're raising kids.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
So my first husband and I, after we got to
Jacksonville, we stayed therefor a while.
Eric came along and then, um uh, stephen got transferred back
to Orlando and was working forthem in Orlando, but he had a
lot of issues there, you know,and was working for them in
Orlando, but he had a lot ofissues.
Alcoholism is pretty prevalentin the military.
Yes.
(30:10):
And I did not see that while wewere in the military, but after
we were out it becomes a monsterand it's not the way.
I just was not going to have mychildren raised that way.
Right.
And so you know he didn't wantto get help.
(30:33):
And so we ultimately ended up,you know, divorcing and we're
great friends now.
In fact, he literally um lastweek, excuse me, he sent me
these YouTube videos that hefound of Gelnhausen as it stands
today because it closed, thatbase closed and was absorbed
back by the town and they turnedit into office buildings and
(30:56):
stuff like that.
And then, but you could still,somebody had gone through and
taken a tour and I was like, wow, it doesn't look the same, but
there were things that Irecognized almost 40 years ago
now.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
That's kind of cool when you can see that happen.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's good that you'reable to be friends.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh yeah, we couldn't be married and he ultimately did
end up getting help for hisalcoholism.
He ended up moving back toMassachusetts and now he's a big
AA proponent and he hasn't hadalcohol in a long, long, long
decades now, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, that will definitely change a person.
It will.
So when you got divorced, thendid you go back to work?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, so while I was working, while we were married
when we lived in Jacksonville, Iworked at night at McDonald's
at the mall, which was acrossthe street, and then McDonald's
wanted to put me through theirmanagement training program.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Because, you're a leader.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, and because we moved back here to Orlando, they
were like, hey, we have amanagement training program.
But I ultimately ended up notdoing that.
When Steve and I broke up, mydad got me a job at Correct
Craft because I needed a job,and he's like come work for us.
And I was like all right, Iwanted to become a police
(32:19):
officer, believe it or not.
And so my mom was furious thatI was going to work at Correct
Craft.
She's like you can only workthere a year, you know.
You're not going to work in afactory your whole life.
I'm like, okay, whatever.
And I had applied to the cityof Orlando, their police
(32:39):
department, and it's a process.
If you want to.
There's all these steps, checksteps along the way and you can
be kicked out of the process atany point.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So I made it all the way through and the last is a
psychological evaluation andthen you're cleared to go on.
I did get cleared to go on butthey had no white female spots,
no white female positions andthey're like go apply for the
(33:10):
county and they'll hire youright away.
But I was already, I had been,was in a, started, was seriously
dating my current husband, billat the time and he was like I
can't be married to a policeofficer, that just no way, that
can't happen.
So then I ended up, did staywith Correct Craft and ended up
(33:35):
I never went to college but Idid seek a transfer Because I
was just doing regularproduction line work.
Yeah, and they had an openingin purchasing.
And this is just now whencomputers are starting to get
big Right.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
This is like when they still had the big green
screens, right.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, it was still DOS.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, DOS program oh yes.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And the monitors were like yeah, they were huge.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
There's a whole segment of society that's
listening to this right now thathas no idea what we're talking
about.
No clue, because it's all onyour phone now, right, anyway?
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And I took typing in high school.
Yeah.
So, I figured oh, I can do thatand I remember somebody asking
me.
Well, you know, it involves alot of computer work and I'm
like well, I can type and I willlearn the computer, which I did
, and back then, you know, ofcourse they weren't teaching.
You know we didn't get computerclasses in high school.
We got shorthand and typing andum.
(34:33):
So you, I went to the schools.
You know they had the classesthat you could take for a week.
You went and learned word andthen you went and learned Excel
and PowerPoint and you knowthose were great classes for
getting you the basics and allthat stuff.
So I was in purchasing for ayear and a half.
Really loved it, Love, love,loved it, Love the manufacturing
(34:54):
.
I am a huge proponent ofmanufacturing, I love
manufacturing.
And then they came and tappedme on the shoulder and said hey,
we have this job in personneland Corecraft is a.
They were founded in 1925,family owned company.
And so I said, oh, I had adecision to make at that time
(35:17):
and they gave me the weekend tothink about it.
I knew nothing about HR.
And the lady came over from HRand she's like, oh, you need to
take this job you weekend tothink about it.
I knew nothing about HR.
And the lady came over from HRand she's like, oh, you need to
take this job, you'll knoweverything about everybody.
And I'm like, oh, that was likea nightmare.
I don't want to know anythingabout anybody.
I just want to do my thing.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I want to purchase stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, I want to purchase stuff, and so I had a
really good mentor.
He was the vice president ofproduction and I went and talked
to him and I said well, I seemy path going this way.
He's like you don't know thatyour path will end up that way,
but if you don't take this now,you'll never know.
And so I was like he was right.
So I took the job.
I just said you know, pleasejust make sure that I get the
(35:56):
right training, because that jobdid payroll every week.
And for me that was like a hugeresponsibility.
Well, it is a bigresponsibility.
Now I can do it in my sleep,but, um, I think of the first 90
days.
That's probably what kept me upmost at night, making sure that
, cause I knew everybody.
You know most people livepaycheck to paycheck, and so for
(36:18):
me that was a big deal.
I didn't want anybody to missout on that, so they did.
They sent me to school.
I started taking classes atRollins learning how to do
things, payroll courses and HRcourses, and then, along the way
, the company itself started tochange.
They were in their thirdgeneration.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
And somebody along the way said you know, if you
want to keep your job, you'regoing to have to go to college.
I was like, oh my gosh, by nowmy son's 18.
He had just graduated from highschool and my I was 39 and.
I went to Valencia College herein Orlando and my first night
(37:01):
of class I'm like thinking I'mreally old at 39.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, super old.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Super old.
I'm like I'm going to be theoldest person in class and I'm
just starting at the beginningand I had to take these like
remedial math classes before Icould even take math.
And the first night in classthere's one of my son's friends
high school friends is in theclass with me and I'm like, well
, this is not intimidating atall Right.
(37:29):
And so I'm texting Eric and I'mlike, oh, so-and-so's in class
with me, and he's getting a textfrom his friend dude, your
mom's in class with me.
I was like, oh, but I made it.
It took me six years to get myundergrad degree, and by that
time they were now requiringmaster's degrees.
So if you wanted to stay, I wasalready in a senior leadership
(37:55):
position and so I had the joblong before I had the title.
Right.
I was doing it, and so they paidfor my master's degree as well,
and so my best friend, she wasthe executive vice president.
We went and did our master'sdegrees at the same time.
It was great at UCF.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
So you got to do the buddy program at UCF then.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Did the buddy program at UCF.
I was going to get a master'sin psychology, because
psychology and HR sort of gohand in hand.
Yeah, but my boss, bill Yerginhe is the president still of
Corecraft he's like, oh, you'dbe way more valuable if you had
an MBA.
And so I'm like, well, you'repaying for it, so I'll get the
MBA whatever you want.
And I did, and it was anamazing experience.
(38:40):
Yeah.
So how old were you when yougot your master's degree then?
So well, I just turned 60 thisyear, so I think I was like
maybe 47.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
All right, very similar.
I got my undergrad only becauseI was going to OCS and had to
have a degree to get mycommission, but then I had a
bunch of VA money left over, soI got my master's, but I finally
got it when I was 50.
Really, and that's the otherthing too.
(39:16):
A lot of people that I talk tofrom the military, go to college
later on in life.
Colleges, don't forget, becauseI went to community college
right out of high school andtotally bombed Like every single
class bombed.
So probably 30 years later Iwant to go back and get my
degree.
So I go back to communitycollege.
They put me on academicprobation based on my grades
(39:37):
from 30 years ago.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
So yes, I had to pay for it.
The VA wouldn't pay for mycollege until I got off academic
probation, so I had to doeverything on my own for, like
that first you know semester.
But yeah, they don't forget.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
They don't forget.
Well, I ended up gettingstraight A's all the way through
college, and especially towardsthe end.
I was doing accelerated classesthrough Palm Beach Atlantic, so
the classes flipped over everysix weeks.
Yeah through Palm BeachAtlantic.
So the classes flipped overevery six weeks, yeah, and that
last year I took a ton because Ijust powered through it to get.
I was going to school likeevery night.
(40:11):
I'm like, I'll see you guyswhen I'm done.
Right, and my family, thankfully, my husband was very supportive
, and so I had a good supportsystem underneath, so my
daughter and I, I think,graduated near the same time.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Oh, that's kind of cool.
Yeah, did you walk for yourdegrees?
Okay, I was curious.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I did.
I was like man, I'm walking, Igot this, I'm walking.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Because I walked for my associate's degree but I
didn't walk for my undergrad ormy graduate degree.
I was like ah, I'm just done.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Well, the graduate degree.
You know, it was a cohort andwe all got pretty tight and
close In fact, we're stillfriends now and so we all walked
together and it was UCF, so itwas like massive graduation
Right.
Yeah, you kind of have to go dothat yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So there's something interesting I'm kind of learning
about you is that yourfriendships sort of stay.
Like you know, you went in onthe buddy program and you're
still friends with that person.
You're still friends with yourex-husband.
You're friends with the peopleyou went to college with.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, my very best friend is.
We met in the sixth grade, wow,and she actually married a Navy
guy.
He spent 30 years in the Navyand she moved back here probably
, I guess.
I guess it's been about maybeeight, nine years ago, because
her daughter lives here and wasshe was becoming a grandma as
(41:36):
well and, yeah, we're just bestfriends 30 years.
We just went right back tobeing best friends.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, that grandparent thing sort of sneaks
up on you, doesn't?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
it Well, it's the best thing ever.
Oh, I love it, I love it Iretired at 50 from Correct Craft
because I had told my daughterand son-in-law, like, if you
guys ever, you know, want tohave a child, you know I'll take
care of the baby.
And so I had, you know, gottento a point where I could, um,
(42:06):
retire, so to speak, and um,they were pregnant with, with my
first grandchild, ronan.
And uh, so I did, and that'swhen I start.
I started teaching at Rollins,then I'm an ed, so I'm an
adjunct professor.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Oh, okay.
So like a lot of people, youdon't really retire.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I came out of retirement twice.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, you kind of find things that you want to do
instead of things that you haveto do.
I think that's how I look at it.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Well, you do things, yes.
So when you're younger, youtake the job because you've got
to put food on the table Right.
And then, when you get older,you take the jobs that you like
because it intrigues you, not somuch for the money.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Exactly so.
I want to back up just a littlebit, though.
Tell me about your husband,Bill, and how you met.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So we met.
He was actually some of myfriends at Correct Craft.
He was renting a room from him,so that's how we met.
And then we started dating andhe sort of like had nowhere to
go for thanksgiving that year,and so I am.
The collector of lost souls ishow I how I describe it.
But if you don't have anywhereto go for the holidays, you're
(43:14):
coming to my house okay and umand yeah.
So we ended up getting marrieddated for a little over a year
and then ended up gettingmarried, dated for a little over
a year and then ended upgetting married.
Jennifer and Eric were young.
He was working for the Divisionof Forestry and he was a
dispatcher for forestry at thetime.
And then, yeah, we lived thereat forestry, on the forestry
(43:35):
property for I think five years,which was different.
Yeah.
And they didn't charge us.
They didn't charge us anythingfor like the first couple of
years.
And then they're like, oh yeah,well, we're probably the state
we probably should charge you,because they had little houses
on the property, on Forestryproperty, uh-huh and they're
like, oh, we probably shouldcharge you something.
(43:57):
So they charge us $25 a month.
Wow.
We'll be.
But that experience ended upgiving us the money to buy our
first house.
For the down payment I think weused the.
We didn't use the VA benefit.
Then they had like a first-timehomebuyers thing, so we had to
stay in that house for sevenyears and then we ended up
(44:19):
moving to this house.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Okay, and you've been married for how long, then
years?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
wow this year will be 36 congratulations yeah, thanks
, that's.
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's been quite the challenge, yeah well, I think
you know that's a.
That's a great message.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
For people, though, like marriage is great, but it's
work it is work and my husbandhas Alzheimer's, so that's a
challenge in and of itself, justnavigating that.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yes, I went through that with my grandfather and
then with my stepfather, so it'sdifficult.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
It is difficult.
Yeah, I went through it with mydad as well.
He died last year.
Okay.
He passed on last year.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, my stepfather passed away a few years ago.
Yeah.
And my grandmother too, youknow.
A lot of times we just had tofind humor in it.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Oh yeah, you know, you have to find the humor in it
.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Mm-hmm.
I remember when my parentsstill lived near where I lived
They've moved since, but mygrandmother had Alzheimer's and
we went to brunch.
We used to go to this fancyrestaurant for brunch and we
were all there all the kids, myparents and my grandmother and
it's one of those restaurantswhere they take your coat when
(45:33):
you come in.
So they took my grandma's coatand halfway to the table she's
like where'd my coat go?
And she's asking about thiscoat for like 20 minutes.
So finally her mind goes tosomething else and we're all
sitting around the table lookingat the menus and I looked over
and I said, grandma, where'syour coat at?
(45:54):
Oh my gosh, I thought my mom wasgoing to kill me.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
That is something my son would do.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
But we still share that story.
So yeah, I mean it's sad andit's difficult, but you can
choose to be sad about it or youcan find something to help you
through it.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
You find yourself in that situation.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Yeah, and I have like a really good support system.
Yeah.
I've got my well.
My mom lives with me, butthat's another story.
But my kids, they're great.
My sister is really great.
So we have a good supportsystem.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
That's good, and your kids got along with Bill.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, okay, I mean during the teenage years it was
a little turbulent, but teenageyears are not turbulent.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Right, yeah, but we survived, everybody survived
into adulthood.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, well, that's good.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
That's good.
So your daughter is currentlyteaching.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, she's an elementary school teacher.
That's what she wanted to beher whole life and when she
graduated college in three years, not four and went straight
into teaching, so she was 21 andteaching kindergarten and, yeah
, I was very proud.
So she was 21 and teachingkindergarten and I yeah, it was
I was very proud.
So she's a gifted teacher nowand I think she's probably what,
(47:09):
18 years in now Wow, teaching.
Yeah, she's got three kids ofher own, married, and both my
kids live within two miles.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
That's gotta be, great as a grandmother.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
It is yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'm curious though.
So like, when the grandkidscome over and when they leave,
do you find yourself sleepingfor like two days after they're
gone, cause my grand, mygranddaughter, wears me out?
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So while we had Ronan full time Okay, um, and so
that's the reason why I retiredat 50 was to take care of him.
So I'd pick him up in themornings from their house, bring
him back here.
But I had to learn how to be amom all over again.
I forgot how hard it was to bea mom and how exhausting it was,
(47:55):
but I did, we did it and it waslike the best thing ever.
And then Scarlett came along.
Those two are 18 months apart,exactly 18 months apart, and I
was like, wow, it was easy withone, and so now I've got two.
And so, yeah, so my daughter,I'd go pick the kids up, but
(48:18):
she'd come home and, especiallywith Ronan, I'd give her her
child and her dinner because wewould coordinate.
I'd do the cooking because shecan't cook, and yeah, so it
worked.
So now I'm sort of in thegroove.
It doesn't bother me.
Now there's three of them.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Right, yeah, well, and you're young, yeah, big
picture.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, big picture.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Right, I like to think 60's young, but my kids
don't think so.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I know I think 60's young.
Yeah, my body's telling meotherwise.
In some aspects, right.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
We don't bounce like we used to.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
No, it's harder to get up off the floor.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yes, it definitely is , so you're an adjunct professor
as well.
I am, so you're an adjunctprofessor as well.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I am, and two years ago a friend of mine that I went
to high school with and churchwith, he had asked me to go out
for coffee and so we met.
He needed an HR director and hetold me he's like oh yeah, I'm
working for First PresbyterianChurch now and he's like we need
(49:21):
an HR director because ours isretiring.
I'm like you work for a churchthat needs an HR director.
How many people do you haveworking there typically?
Speaker 1 (49:30):
It's a big church.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
It is a big church.
They have 100.
Wow, but they have a schoolthat's attached to it, which?
is why they have 100.
And so he's telling me you knowthe type of person.
And now the kids are in school,adjuncting.
I was doing some consulting andI'm like, well, what if I
applied?
(49:52):
Because I've always been afaith person and working at
Correct Raft they're afaith-based company as well.
And, yeah, I applied,interviewed, got the job, and
it's probably been.
It doesn't pay as much as someof my other job, but it's the
best job I've ever had.
One of the best jobs.
(50:13):
Craftcraft was really good too.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, it sounds like you just had a series of good
experiences.
Yeah, probably a few bumpsalong the way, but a series of
good experiences A few bumpsalong.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
yeah, there was one I worked at for a year and I was
like, oh, this is not for me.
They were actually paying me alot of money, but I was like not
for me.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Have you discovered that money's great, but your
sanity's a little bit moreimportant?
Sanity and time, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
My time, when the kids were growing up.
I have a lot of regrets aboutoh, I had to work, so I missed
that field trip or whatever.
Now I tell people that I teachand that have worked for me
never miss a field trip.
Don't be afraid to come to meand ask for the day off because
you've got to go do somethingwith your kids.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
And so I think they appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Well, your experience is going to help them have an
even better experience.
Yeah, yeah, I can understandthat.
Yeah, I think something changesin us.
Well, again it's.
We had to do this because theyhad to put food on the table,
and now I can kind of choosewhat I want to do.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
And so do you feel like you're positively impacting
, like that, next generation offolks that are going to be
working?
Speaker 2 (51:25):
I totally feel that way.
There's actually the ladythat's working for me now.
She is going to nursing schoolat night Now she's a single mom
so I already feel for her and,yeah, she's doing her homework
(51:46):
all day.
She's a receptionist, so shehas a lot that allows her to be
able to do that, whereas somepeople it would probably drive
them crazy.
But I'm like, if she can do itit's not hurting anybody and
ultimately in the end she'sbettering herself.
That's why I'm here yeah well,and you're gonna.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
When you do those sorts of things, you make better
employees yeah like an employeethat you've taken care of.
They're nine times out of ten.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
I remember that right right, yeah, so people remember
how you made them feel yes,somebody.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
there's a quote about that somewhere, I think the
nation's poet actually wrotesomething about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you, I mean you've done alot, uh, in in your
semi-retired but not retired Um,you know you've raised a family
, you're taking care of a family, you're taking care of your
husband and a lot going on.
(52:41):
I do want to ask really twomore questions.
The first one is is thereanything that we haven't talked
about that you would like toshare as part of your story?
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Part of my story.
Well, because I was in theright place at the right time, I
think, and I mean Corecraftgave me so many opportunities.
I mean we started doing missiontrips around the world and I've
been to a ton of places becauseof that and my master's degree
(53:19):
got to go to China as part ofthat program.
It was built into thecurriculum Amazing.
You know just the opportunitiesthat I've had.
I am so grateful for.
I'm like I never thought thatthis would be the life that I
(53:40):
would have.
I figured I'd just go to worksomeplace like my dad and stay
there until I retired doingmenial nothing.
And that's not the way itturned out.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
It's amazing how life does that.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
I want to ask you a question about your so you did
mission trips.
Yeah, I know this is not a fairquestion, but if you could just
pick one of those that was yourabsolute favorite, tell me
about that.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, it was the very first one to Mexico.
Okay, because that one changedmy life.
They were all great and I gotto go to Ethiopia and all these
different countries, but thatone changed my life because I
had worked for this faith-basedcompany and we have guests come
in and there were, you know,bible studies and whatnot, but
(54:26):
our president, bill Yergin.
He was new to the company andhe told me we're going to do
mission trips and I was like,we're going to do what?
And he's like, yeah, I want youto find a place where we can go
and take employees out of thecountry.
You can't be in the UnitedStates.
I thought he was crazy.
I'm like how are we going to dothis?
You do this through church.
And I found a company.
(54:48):
I didn't know how to do it, soI'm one.
If I don't know how to dosomething, let's go find
somebody who does.
So I did.
I found a company calledMissionary Ventures they
specialize in short-term missiontrips and went to Mexico.
So they flew me out toCalifornia.
I went in through Tijuana,mexico, and met these
missionaries and they'rebuilding houses in Mexico.
(55:11):
It's a house to them, it's ashed to us, it's a house to them
and I said, okay, we're goingto do this.
I said okay, we're going to dothis.
So we took 25 people in July toMexico.
It was hot.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
And we were staying in a campground, we were camping
at night, and so there were nofacilities, I mean, and the
smell was just unbelievable.
And that first night BillYergin asked us we were praying.
He said if you want to say theprayer of salvation, say the
prayer.
And I was sitting there priorto this, and the sun was going
(55:54):
down and we're in Mexico and Ihad already thought to myself
God, why did you bring me here?
I am in this spot, spot in thisplace.
That is pushing me way outsidemy comfort zone.
I mean, my gag reflex was onoverdrive most of the time that
we were there because of thesmells and I'm like there's got
(56:17):
to be a reason.
So there's something biggergoing on here.
And so I said that prayer thatnight.
And I told him about it thenext day because we were on the
work site, we were taking alunch break and I tried to get
up as high as I could, away fromthe breeze, and I told him that
I had said the prayer ofsalvation and so he prayed with
(56:40):
me that night.
I could not talk about it for ayear after that, could not.
Even now I will start to cryabout it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yeah Well, how does I mean, how did that feel for you
?
Like, was that like a weightlifted?
I think it was a wake-up call.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
In that now I knew what my purpose was.
He had showed me what my giftwas Like.
I didn't believe in myself.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Right yeah, which amazes me because even up to
that point in your life, if youjust look back on all the things
that you had accomplished,right, you just look back on all
the things that you hadaccomplished.
Right, and I think too, thatmany times we look back and talk
about what we have accomplished, but really there's a lot of
(57:32):
things going on behind thescenes that helped you
accomplish those things.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Yeah, People, spiritual, all of those things,
yeah, all those things.
And I look back at it now andI'm like it was divine
intervention all along the way.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, I can't imagine working for a company that says
we're going to do a missionoutside the country.
That's just we build boats, butwe're going to do this.
That's why they're successful.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
That's why they're successful.
Yeah, and so I feel like he hadshowed me my gift was yeah, I
can go and I can hammer a nailin, but my real gift is in being
able to organize, and becausethere's a lot that goes into it
the transportation, the, foodthe safety.
All of that goes into takingall these people from outside,
you know, outside the UnitedStates and getting them all back
(58:19):
safely.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Yeah, getting them all back safely.
Yeah, do you think that whenyou look back on the leadership
positions that you were forcedto take, you feel like those are
little knocks on the door?
Yeah, they were, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
They were.
They were like Shirley, wake up, we know you're in there
Because I could have easily.
You know my dad, he was offeredpositions but in leadership and
he never would take them andyou know, he just sort of went
along.
He was the worker bee and um,yeah, but part of it is too is
(58:51):
saying yes when the opportunitycomes along.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Right, right, what's?
What's the old joke about theguy, the guy in the flood?
I don't know if you've heardthis, stop me.
There's a guy, there's a floodthat hits this guy's town and,
uh, you know, as the waters arerising, a a boat comes by and
and offers him help and he says,no, the lord will take care of
me.
And then the water gets alittle higher and another boat
(59:15):
comes by and he said, oh, thelord's going to take care of me.
And then the water gets alittle higher, a helicopter
comes by and he says, nope, theLord's going to take care of me.
And the guy drowns.
Yeah.
And he gets to heaven and hesays what's the deal?
You said you'd take care of me.
And the Lord says I sent youtwo boats and a helicopter.
What more did you want?
Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yeah, I have heard that story and I think about it
all the time and I'm like, yeah,he sent me stuff all along the
way, so working for a church nowthat is the amazing part.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, does it feel kind of full circle for you Full
?
Speaker 2 (59:49):
circle?
Yeah, in fact they had asked mebecause I started out as a
department of one in HR and I'mending as a department of one in
HR.
In between there's been a lotbig teams and stuff like that.
Lots of people, a thousandpeople, and now I'm back to 100,
department of One and the headpastor, david Swanson, had asked
(01:00:12):
me well, how do you feel aboutthat?
I'm like this is my full circlemoment and I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yeah, so I don't want to think too far in the future,
but what do you think is nextfor you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Gosh, I don't want to think too far in the future,
but what do you think is nextfor you, gosh?
I don't know.
I think so.
My son is very entrepreneurial.
My son-in-law isentrepreneurial.
I help them both with theirbusinesses and I think that
there will be something a jointventure in the future that I
(01:00:44):
will support them on.
I'm not the out in the frontand I'm great behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, I look forward to seeing that next chapter too.
Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Well, I've asked a lot of questions today and
you've had an amazing life,thank you.
I'm a firm believer in that.
Everything we do brings us tothe point where we're at right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
And so really just one last question, as we kind of
wrap this up, and that is whensomeone's watching this 100
years from now and you and Iaren't here anymore.
What message do you want toleave for people?
Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
I think the message would be don't be afraid.
I think the message would bedon't be afraid.
You've got to say yes whensomebody asks you.
Don't operate out of fear.
If you don't know something,learn it.
Be a lifelong learner.
I never thought I would go tocollege and here I am.
(01:01:39):
I'm teaching college, and itdidn't happen until later.
So it's never too late, and putyourself outside your comfort
zone.
Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
You'll be so richly rewarded.
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
That's what I want them to know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
All right, well, thank you for sharing that.
Thanks for taking time out on aTuesday to talk with me.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
I appreciate it.
Thank you for coming here.
I didn't fly here, you did.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
That's true.
So today is Tuesday, May 13th.
We're talking with ShirleyAdams, who served in the United
States Army.
So good morning, Shirley.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Great to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And you know, after talking with you on the phone
and realizing that you knew myson, this is kind of an honor
for me.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
So I'm very excited.
Well, you should be.
You have a great son.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
He is absolutely adorable.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Thank you, I like him too.
Yeah, he's a good kid, but notjust because I'm his dad, yeah,
so we'll start out really simplethis morning.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I was born in Detroit , Michigan, on March 17th 1965.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Okay, all right.
Just a month before me,actually, I was born.
April 7th 1965.
Okay, Not Detroit, though InLansing.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
In.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Lansing.
Okay, yeah, so did you grow upin Detroit?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Until I was seven, my parents moved down here.
We lived in Detroit and therewas a lot of turbulence going on
in Detroit during those yearsand my grandfather lived here in
Orlando, and so he said hey,come down to Orlando, I'll get
you a job where I work.
And we moved here in 1972.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh, okay, so any brothers or sisters?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I have a sister who is 11 months younger than me.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, okay, so you're the older sister.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Do you act like an older sister?
Just curious.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Always.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
All right, I would expect nothing less.
Yeah, my wife is an oldersister and I have an older
sister, and they're very similarin those respects.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, the older sister.
They're expected, a lot more isexpected of them.
Yep, so do you have manymemories of Detroit when you
were growing up?
Yes, like good memories ofgoing to my grandparents' house
and I think probably.
Well, I remembertrick-or-treating as a kid and
(01:48):
it was always very cold, unlikehere where it can be pretty warm
.
Yeah, so stuff like that.
And then we would go back andvisit, of course, family.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh, okay, All right.
And what about your parents?
Tell me a little bit about them.
What did your dad do and what?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
did your mom do?
My mom was born in Detroit andshe ended up retiring.
She was a nurse as a retirednurse and then my dad.
He had to quit school reallyyoung to take care of his mom,
but his dad lived here and so weended up moving here when I was
(02:27):
seven and so he ended up goingto work for Correct Craft, which
is a boat manufacturing company, because his dad worked there
and then ultimately in the end,I ended up working there as well
, for 27 years, so kind of afamily thing.
It was a family thing.
Yep.
And my son ended up workingthere for a little bit too.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, it's kind of good that he was able to I mean
because I know it was.
Things were getting pretty badin Detroit at that time.
It's kind of nice that he wasable to come down here and find
work and be able to raise afamily.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Jobs were hard during that time and so you know,
trying to find a good job and,and, and he did, and he stayed
until he retired.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, so tell me about growing up in Florida in
the seventies.
I mean, I remember growing upin Michigan in the seventies.
I think it was probablycompletely different.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, it was.
Yes, disney was still new,disney had just opened right
before we came here and itwasn't nearly as crowded, of
course, as it is now Right, andthere were tons of orange groves
everywhere.
So we used to play in theorange groves right near here,
(03:39):
and I actually grew up in ahouse not too far from here and
we would go play hide andseek inthe orange groves.
So it was a little bitdifferent.
You came in when the lights.
You know when my dad would saycome in, when the street lights
come on, you better be in thehouse.
Right.
And other than that, it was, youknow, riding your bicycles
every day and swimming every day, and, you know, during the
(04:02):
summer we were in the pool allthe time.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So lots of sun.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yep Lots of friends.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, it was great, it was agood life.
Well good.
How was school?
School for me was I was okay,just average, uh-huh.
I did ROTC when I was in highschool, cause I always wanted to
(04:28):
join the Navy because there wasa Navy base, a recruiting base
here.
Uh-huh.
And, um, I remember driving pastthey had like a big replica of
a you know a warship there andwhere they were training the
soldiers and you could go drivepast there and see the soldiers
they were in.
They were in basic training andyou know, they were marching
(04:51):
and stuff and I'm like I want todo that one day.
And so got into high school andmy high school had Navy ROTC
and loved it.
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh well, so was there ?
Was there military in yourfamily, or was?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
this Wow, I'm the first one.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
All right.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, you didn't end up joining the Navy though.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I didn't join the Navy.
Uh got to senior year of highschool and time to make that
commitment and um, coming out,the Navy had a one-year waiting
period for women going in.
Oh.
And when you're 18, a yearsounds like a long time.
And my best friend was also inROTC with me and her dad was
(05:38):
retired Air Force and we decided, for whatever reason, we were
going to join the Army, becausethe Army was taking girls right
away.
Yeah, and so we joined the Army.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
On the buddy program.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
On the buddy program.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Which only guarantees to keep you together through
AIT.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Okay, all right, they're pretty good with that
guarantee.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, we were in basic training together.
We went into basic trainingtogether and, um it, like any
friendship there's always seemsto be like one person who's
stronger over the other has astronger personality and, and my
friend had a really strongpersonality.
I am the laid back, easygoingperson and so I just wanted to
(06:28):
make it through basic training,you know, without being seen.
So, you know, I was just hopingI could go in there, you know,
because being yelled at is nothigh on my list of things that I
enjoy.
And so when they asked, youknow, right in through basic
training, they asked who canmarch, who knows how to march,
(06:49):
who was in band or who was inROTC?
I did not raise my hand and Iwas pretty tall already, so I
was already in the back row forgirls at that time and I didn't
raise my hand.
But you know, my friendCharlotte boy, her hand went
straight up, you know, and shewas all about being in charge
and whatnot, and so they werepicking, you know, platoon
(07:12):
leaders and squad leaders andall that stuff.
So they're doing squad leaders,I think, first, and she became
a squad leader and I'm just fine, sit standing in the back and
one day.
We're in line, we're information and the drill sergeant
comes right up behind me and mymaiden name is Oakley and he's
like Oakley be in my office atwhatever time.
(07:34):
I thought I was going to dieand I'm like what is going on?
So I show up in the office andhe and the other drill sergeant
were there.
We had two drill sergeants andhe's like we noticed you know
how to march.
I'm like oh dang.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So much for under the radar, huh.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So much for under the radar.
And so they said, well, we'regoing to make you the platoon
leader.
And I'm like, oh no, this isnot what I wanted at all.
Right, and it wasn't an option.
Right, it wasn't an option.
And so I ended up staying theplatoon leader the entire time,
(08:13):
which was fine.
I think that wasn't the firsttime that that had happened,
where I had been put in like aleadership position just out of
the blue.
It actually happened in highschool too, because when I was
in ROTC one summer, theyactually took us out and they
did a uh, we did a week's worthof of basic training in the Navy
(08:34):
ROTC, and the same thinghappened there.
Sort of, they made me the, theleader of that group, um, even
though I didn't want it, and so,yeah, that sort of did it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So it sounds like people see in you this
leadership quality.
That's just there.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I don't know, I don't think they do Try to be quiet.
Yeah, get through.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Well, some of the best leaders are chosen, not the
people that raise their handsand try and be leaders, right?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Actually, basic training put a little bit of a
strain on our friendship on.
Charlotte's friendship andbecause she wanted to be the
leader and I didn't, and so thenI ended up being the leader
over her and I mean it was finebut, as I started, I was like
wow, you can be reallyirritating, and so we're still
(09:23):
friends now.
I can only take her in smalldoses.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well, and I think you see it from a different
perspective right, when you're aleader and you're ultimately
responsible, you start to kindof see the things that people do
that maybe you didn't see whenyou were flying under the radar.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
That is true.
Yeah, very true.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So basic training was what?
Was it?
12 weeks.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It was eight weeks.
Yeah, pretty true.
So basic training was what?
Was it?
12 weeks?
It was eight weeks, eight weeks, okay, yeah, because that was
the 80s.
Yeah, so I went in and we leftfor basic training the day after
Thanksgiving 1983.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Interesting.
I think the military does that.
I went to basic training theday after Christmas in 1984.
I took a gap year before I didanything.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I think the horrible thing, though, was because it
was Christmas they sent us homefrom basic training for a week.
How hard was that.
That was horrible.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean not coming home.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Coming home was great .
Speaker 1 (10:17):
You knew you had to go back though, but going back
was traumatic.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, it was horrible .
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's like going to basic training all over again.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's horrible.
It's like going to basictraining all over again.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I think they did extend us out, maybe a couple of
weeks because of that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Okay, did you go to Fort Jackson?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I did Okay, relaxing in Jackson.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's where all the women went in the 80s, I think.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I believe so.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
There were a lot of us.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The military was really just starting to
integrate males and females atthe time.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, we would have.
The only time that we saw themales was potentially near chow
time, because they were havingchow at the same time, but other
than that they kept us prettywell separated.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, probably not a bad idea yeah, probably not yeah
.
Yeah, so you get through basictraining.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I did get through basic training.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
And you were there kind of at a good time of year,
right.
It wasn't ridiculously hot andsweaty, it was pretty cold yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And it was really cold.
They would have like heatingtents where they'd have to take
us in there just to warm us upokay, yeah, anything else stand
out in basic training or anyother um, I um, well, I had to
go to like little extra bootcamp because I wasn't really
great at push-ups and.
(11:42):
And so, after the day was over,you'd have to go do weight
training, and those of us thatgot selected out but just had to
make it through the minimum forpush-ups.
But other than that it was fine.
I didn't really.
I mean, I learned a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And so you did you come homebetween basic and AIT, or did
you just go right to AIT?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Went straight to AIT.
My mom and my stepdad and mysister came up for graduation.
I think we got an afternoonwith them after graduation and I
don't think we had the next day.
I think it was really just thatone day, yeah, and then right
on into AIT.
It was really just that one dayand then right on into AIT.
(12:28):
But going back to MEPS, whenyou're choosing what you're
going to be, so the recruiterswere trying to get me to become
an MP because of my height.
But my friend Charlotte wasshort and needed to lose weight
before we could even get tobasic training, and so I had
(12:49):
thought or we had thought, Idon't know who thought it up,
maybe her because she was astronger personality I thought
one day I wanted to own my ownrestaurant.
I'm trying to think farther outahead what can I get out of
this?
And I was like, oh you know,owning a my own restaurant would
be a something really cool.
And so, um, we ended upbecoming army cooks.
(13:12):
Now, charlotte's dad wasfurious because he was an
officer in the air force oh yeahand um, but charlotte had fewer
options than I did, and so I'mbeing so okay, well, we'll do
this.
I'm thinking all right how hardis it to be a cook?
It cannot be that hard.
(13:33):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
It's ridiculously hard.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It is ridiculously hard.
There's a lot to learn, but thething is is you're on,
everybody's got to eat threetimes a day, and guess when the
cooks start in the morning?
They start at two and they donot finish until they're done
cleaning after dinner.
(14:00):
And so if you're lucky enoughto be in a unit that has enough
cooks to have two shifts, goodto go.
But if you're not, it is tiring.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work and doggoneit.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
They got to eat seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's right.
Yeah, that doesn't stop.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah it doesn't stop, so it was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, and so how is AIT for cooks?
A lot of math actually.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, it's a lot of math, because you're trying to
learn how to use this industrialequipment without chopping off
all your fingers equipmentwithout chopping off all your
fingers.
But then it's taking theserecipes and either multiplying
them or contracting them, youknow with math, of course, but
(14:54):
other than that it was.
You know it was fine and justyou know learning regulations is
actually a lot into it to makesure you're not giving somebody
food poisoning.
Right right.
More difficult than Ianticipated.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And I think it's funny because I remember math in
high school thinking I'll neveruse this Me too.
I'm not an army cook, but I doa lot of cooking and I find
myself using algebra all thetime, right right To solve for
either upscaling or downscalinga recipe.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
My biggest problem in downscaling after I got out of
the military was mashed potatoes.
Like we had lots of mashedpotatoes.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Scale that down now.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, you don't need mashed potatoes for 100 people.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Exactly.
That's funny, but I mean I canwhip up a meal for a bunch of
people.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Uh-huh.
That's funny because I rememberwhen I first got married a long
time ago, I was used to cookingfor a family, and it was just
her and I, and we had moved toVirginia Beach.
So I'm cooking nachos for eight10 people and it's just the two
of us.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I think we both gained a few pounds because of
that and you will gain a fewpounds while you're doing that.
Because, yeah, you've got totaste test everything, right.
And then when I was in myregular unit, we would eat like
before and after.
So you have to be careful youdon't eat twice.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Right, exactly Right.
Two dinners, two breakfasts,exactly Whatever it is.
So how long was your AIT?
Twice Right, exactly Right.
Two dinners, two breakfastswhatever it is.
So you uh, you get so how longwas your AIT?
Ait was also eight weeks?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Okay, yeah, and then from what?
So?
What happens from there?
So, what happens from there?
We're in a formation and, um,they're just uh, naming out
where you're going where you'rebeing stationed because you have
no idea where you're going togo and Charlotte and I both got
sent to Germany.
We were going to Germany, sothen you get to come home.
(16:55):
They sent us home for a week inbetween AIT and then being sent
over to Germany, and so thenwent into Ramstein and then into
Frankfurt and then got sent toour base, which was in
Gelnhausen.
Charlotte ended up staying inFrankfurt, and then I went to a
(17:15):
tiny little base in Gelnhausen,germany.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Right, that didn't have enough cooks for two shifts
.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, sometimes we did.
Sometimes we would jointogether with other units so
that we could make it, becauseyou can't do that for very long
without having a break.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Right, I can only imagine, or we would take turns
for the weekends for thedifferent units, because I was
in an HHC unit.
Okay, and how was Germany?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Gorgeous, beautiful, cold, but Cold, but absolutely
beautiful.
The base that I was at used tobe a World War II German base
and so it was gorgeous and thebarracks were like block.
I mean, it was just veryidyllic.
(18:03):
It had cobblestone streetsstill in the middle of it and it
had this beautiful like pondthat used to be a swimming pool
for officers.
So it was really very, uh,different.
Um, uh, and it was, and thecountryside was just really
hilly, just gorgeous, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, so did you have off time to enjoy all of that?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I did have off time.
In fact that's how I met myfirst husband.
He was also in the military, wewere in the same unit and he
was a mechanic and so, yeah, youwould get to go on your off
time and, of course, weekendsyou would get to go on your off
time and, of course, weekendsyou would get to go.
I would go to Frankfurt tovisit Charlotte, and a couple of
my other friends were nearbythat went to basic training, but
(18:53):
then you got to go into thecountryside.
It was really very pretty.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh, I've never been in Germany.
I've talked to a lot of peoplewho have I want to go back.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, how about that I?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
went on the Rhine River and my first husband,
stephen he had his car wasshipped over to him, so we went
on the Autobahn, which was scary.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Don't like driving fast, no.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Got to go to a couple of castles.
Yeah, yeah, very pretty yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Is there anything about Germany that really stands
out to you, Like if you thinkabout back to that, what's like
one thing that's just reallysticks in your head?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Um.
So Steven and I actually endedup.
We we um got married, but welived off post, and I think what
stands out to me most is justthe little town of Gelnhausen.
They would roll up the streetspractically at 12 o'clock on
Saturdays and then there wasnothing happening all through
(19:54):
Sunday.
So, it was just very more laidback.
I think the other thing thatstands out to me about Germany
was the people in southernGermany were much more welcoming
of Americans than the people innorthern Germany were.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Oh, Wow, do you think that's because in northern
Germany that was more of afighting thing and in southern
Germany it was more of aliberation thing?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It could be.
Yeah, it definitely could be,because it was only the 80s.
So now you're only talkingabout 35, 40 years since the end
of the war Still not enoughtime, I don't think had passed.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Which is interesting because you talk about World War
II now.
It seems so far away.
So far away, but when we weregrowing up, you know, Vietnam
was kind of still going on.
Right.
And it had maybe just ended,but World War II was still
something.
There was lots of movies madeabout it.
People still talked about it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, I mean, when you went to Frankfurt you could
see in the buildings themselvesin downtown Frankfurt where they
had literally built on top ofthe ruins, and so you would have
like this much where you couldsee the original foundation of
the building and then where theyjust built up and it's just was
pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, you probably wouldn't even see that today.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
No, you wouldn't even notice it today.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It's all gone.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
But they would tell you about it then.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Absolutely yeah, yeah .
So how long were you in Germany?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I guess it would have been about a year, a year and a
half, a little over a year anda half.
About a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay, and then so did you rotate back stateside or
did you get out of the Army?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So, when.
Stephen and I got married.
I was pregnant and at that time, because we were in a tiny
village, we did have a medicalunit there, but nothing that was
spectacular.
You'd have to go back toFrankfurt to get a real doctor
and the first question they askyou is are you going to have an
(22:13):
abortion?
That was the very first questionin 1984, late 1984.
And I said no, and so then Ionly had a few options back then
.
They were not as you weretalking about.
Women were still just reallybeing integrated into the
(22:34):
military.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
There was no, they didn't have a plan.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No, basically, it's a great way to get kicked out.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, so you didn't get kicked out.
You had a couple of options.
One you could have an abortion.
Right.
Number two because I was in anHAC unit.
We would go to the field allthe time at the drop of a pin to
do our planned war games andyou had to be ready to go in 15
minutes.
Right.
Well, if you've got a child, youbetter have a good support
(23:04):
system.
I didn't have that supportsystem over there, and most
wives of other military menthought you were trying to steal
their husband, and so they werenone too friendly towards you.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
None too friendly.
The third option was send yourchild home.
Let somebody else raise yourchild Well, my parents were
working and that's not what Iwas going to do or you could
take an honorable discharge.
That was really my only option.
So I took an honorable dischargeand stayed, I think, all the
(23:40):
way until they didn't dischargeme, until I was like seven
months pregnant, but because Ididn't have they did not have, I
didn't have an OB, I did nothave regular medical care I
ended up getting like reallysick.
I had a really bad kidneyinfection when I was being
discharged.
Oh.
And that was horrible.
(24:02):
So I remember flying home I wasreally sick and my kidney was
so swollen it was like halfsticking out my back.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, so then they flew me home, flew back to Fort
Jackson to get out processed,still didn't see a doctor, and
then they flew me home and thatnight I'm like you've got to
take me to the hospital and so,because I was still the military
(24:32):
was still actually in charge ofmy care, we went to the Navy
base, the Navy hospital here inOrlando, and of course I think I
spent a week in the hospitaland yeah, and then ultimately
she ended up being born there.
Oh okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So your daughter is your oldest.
My daughter is my oldest.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And so the military paid for the birth and I think I
had to pay for the diapers,which was like maybe three bucks
at the time.
So she was pretty cheap, shewas a bargain.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, not a bad deal.
So she was born in 85?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
She was born in July of 85.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, so I missed, like this, window of being able
to have military benefitsbecause I wasn't in a full.
I missed the full two years.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
By a few months.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's too bad.
They can't change some of that.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It's all in the past, right it's all in the past,
yeah.
Yeah, so you get out now, didyour husband.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So it turns out, the timing was really incredible.
He was coming, he was finishingup eight years, so he finished
up his eight years likeliterally right at the end of
the pregnancy, and so heactually made it home right
before the baby was born.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Oh well, that's kind of nice.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
The timing was could not.
I don't even know how you planthat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, divineintervention.
Divine intervention which Itruly of nice.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
The timing was could not.
I don't even know how you planthat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Divineintervention.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Divine intervention which I truly believe in.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that happens.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It happens.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So your daughter's born, your husband's back, yep,
what's the next phase?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So the next phase is, you know, he's.
We moved in with my dad for alittle bit as we tried to
transition, as he wastransitioning out of the
military, and then Jennifer wasborn.
So it was boom, boom, boom allhappening at the same time.
And then he is fromMassachusetts and he had worked
(26:36):
for Marshall's department storeprior to going into the military
.
Okay, and so when he got out ofthe military, marshall's hired
him back to going into themilitary.
Okay, and so when he got out ofthe military, marshall's hired
him back as a store manager, andso but then they transferred us
to Jacksonville, and so whenshe was, when the baby was
pretty little, we ended upmoving to Jacksonville.
(26:57):
Okay.
And lived there for a couple ofyears.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Uh-huh, and then you had another baby in there
somewhere.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Then I had another baby, yep, 14 months later,
along comes my son Eric, and Iwas still pretty young, because
I was 20 when I had Jennifer.
Yeah.
And then 21, when I had Eric.
And then I remember my momcoming up to Jacksonville.
They had taken Jennifer for aweek so that I could have some
(27:27):
bonding time with the new babyand then when they brought her
back and they left, I think Icried because I'm like what am I
going to do if they both cry atthe same time?
Right, oh, frightening, I wasonly 21.
Yeah, right.
Oh frightening, I was only 21.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Well, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily
get that about folks who jointhe military right.
You joined right out of highschool, kind of like you, and I
did, yeah, I was 18.
Yeah, you do a ton of stuff.
Yeah, on an acceleratedcalendar.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right and by the time you're 25, like you've had
whole life experience, right?
The people who are your agedon't get right right like how
are you having kids at 20 and 21and being married and doing all
the?
You're an adult, but you'restill a kid right yeah right now
.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I look at them I'm like, wow, you're just a baby.
Yeah, I was fully on an adult,making big decisions and all the
things.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Now you have two kids .
As they got older, though, werethey close enough in age that
they my sister and I?
I think we're 18 months apart.
And we were friends when wewere little, so once we got past
that screaming, crying stage,you know we were able to
entertain each other.
Was that kind of the same foryou or not?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Not really, because there's so polar opposites in
many things.
So my daughter, jennifer, isthe, you know she knew what she
wanted to be from a very youngage.
She wanted to be a teacher andyou know, just really book smart
and reading all the time andall that stuff.
And my son, god bless him, um,you know I it's a miracle he
(29:15):
graduated from high school buthe was full on boy, wanted to be
outside in sports and, uh,break in parts of his body.
You know, rough and tumble.
Right so they were reallytotally opposite.
Now they got along, but theywere not close friends.
They were not friends.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
They ran in two totally different circles.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you're married, your you're.
You're married, your husband'sworking, you're raising kids.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
So my first husband and I, after we got to
Jacksonville, we stayed therefor a while.
Eric came along and then, um uh, stephen got transferred back
to Orlando and was working forthem in Orlando, but he had a
lot of issues there, you know,and was working for them in
Orlando, but he had a lot ofissues.
Alcoholism is pretty prevalentin the military.
Yes.
(30:10):
And I did not see that while wewere in the military, but after
we were out it becomes a monsterand it's not the way.
I just was not going to have mychildren raised that way.
Right.
And so you know he didn't wantto get help.
(30:33):
And so we ultimately ended up,you know, divorcing and we're
great friends now.
In fact, he literally um lastweek, excuse me, he sent me
these YouTube videos that hefound of Gelnhausen as it stands
today because it closed, thatbase closed and was absorbed
back by the town and they turnedit into office buildings and
(30:56):
stuff like that.
And then, but you could still,somebody had gone through and
taken a tour and I was like, wow, it doesn't look the same, but
there were things that Irecognized almost 40 years ago
now.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
That's kind of cool when you can see that happen.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's good that you'reable to be friends.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh yeah, we couldn't be married and he ultimately did
end up getting help for hisalcoholism.
He ended up moving back toMassachusetts and now he's a big
AA proponent and he hasn't hadalcohol in a long, long, long
decades now, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, that will definitely change a person.
It will.
So when you got divorced, thendid you go back to work?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, so while I was working, while we were married
when we lived in Jacksonville, Iworked at night at McDonald's
at the mall, which was acrossthe street, and then McDonald's
wanted to put me through theirmanagement training program.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Because, you're a leader.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, and because we moved back here to Orlando, they
were like, hey, we have amanagement training program.
But I ultimately ended up notdoing that.
When Steve and I broke up, mydad got me a job at Correct
Craft because I needed a job,and he's like come work for us.
And I was like all right, Iwanted to become a police
(32:19):
officer, believe it or not.
And so my mom was furious thatI was going to work at Correct
Craft.
She's like you can only workthere a year, you know.
You're not going to work in afactory your whole life.
I'm like, okay, whatever.
And I had applied to the cityof Orlando, their police
(32:39):
department, and it's a process.
If you want to.
There's all these steps, checksteps along the way and you can
be kicked out of the process atany point.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So I made it all the way through and the last is a
psychological evaluation andthen you're cleared to go on.
I did get cleared to go on butthey had no white female spots,
no white female positions andthey're like go apply for the
(33:10):
county and they'll hire youright away.
But I was already, I had been,was in a, started, was seriously
dating my current husband, billat the time and he was like I
can't be married to a policeofficer, that just no way, that
can't happen.
So then I ended up, did staywith Correct Craft and ended up
(33:35):
I never went to college but Idid seek a transfer Because I
was just doing regularproduction line work.
Yeah, and they had an openingin purchasing.
And this is just now whencomputers are starting to get
big Right.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
This is like when they still had the big green
screens, right.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, it was still DOS.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, DOS program oh yes.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And the monitors were like yeah, they were huge.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
There's a whole segment of society that's
listening to this right now thathas no idea what we're talking
about.
No clue, because it's all onyour phone now, right, anyway?
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And I took typing in high school.
Yeah.
So, I figured oh, I can do thatand I remember somebody asking
me.
Well, you know, it involves alot of computer work and I'm
like well, I can type and I willlearn the computer, which I did
, and back then, you know, ofcourse they weren't teaching.
You know we didn't get computerclasses in high school.
We got shorthand and typing andum.
(34:33):
So you, I went to the schools.
You know they had the classesthat you could take for a week.
You went and learned word andthen you went and learned Excel
and PowerPoint and you knowthose were great classes for
getting you the basics and allthat stuff.
So I was in purchasing for ayear and a half.
Really loved it, Love, love,loved it, Love the manufacturing
(34:54):
.
I am a huge proponent ofmanufacturing, I love
manufacturing.
And then they came and tappedme on the shoulder and said hey,
we have this job in personneland Corecraft is a.
They were founded in 1925,family owned company.
And so I said, oh, I had adecision to make at that time
(35:17):
and they gave me the weekend tothink about it.
I knew nothing about HR.
And the lady came over from HRand she's like, oh, you need to
take this job you weekend tothink about it.
I knew nothing about HR.
And the lady came over from HRand she's like, oh, you need to
take this job, you'll knoweverything about everybody.
And I'm like, oh, that was likea nightmare.
I don't want to know anythingabout anybody.
I just want to do my thing.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I want to purchase stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, I want to purchase stuff, and so I had a
really good mentor.
He was the vice president ofproduction and I went and talked
to him and I said well, I seemy path going this way.
He's like you don't know thatyour path will end up that way,
but if you don't take this now,you'll never know.
And so I was like he was right.
So I took the job.
I just said you know, pleasejust make sure that I get the
(35:56):
right training, because that jobdid payroll every week.
And for me that was like a hugeresponsibility.
Well, it is a bigresponsibility.
Now I can do it in my sleep,but, um, I think of the first 90
days.
That's probably what kept me upmost at night, making sure that
, cause I knew everybody.
You know most people livepaycheck to paycheck, and so for
(36:18):
me that was a big deal.
I didn't want anybody to missout on that, so they did.
They sent me to school.
I started taking classes atRollins learning how to do
things, payroll courses and HRcourses, and then, along the way
, the company itself started tochange.
They were in their thirdgeneration.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
And somebody along the way said you know, if you
want to keep your job, you'regoing to have to go to college.
I was like, oh my gosh, by nowmy son's 18.
He had just graduated from highschool and my I was 39 and.
I went to Valencia College herein Orlando and my first night
(37:01):
of class I'm like thinking I'mreally old at 39.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, super old.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Super old.
I'm like I'm going to be theoldest person in class and I'm
just starting at the beginningand I had to take these like
remedial math classes before Icould even take math.
And the first night in classthere's one of my son's friends
high school friends is in theclass with me and I'm like, well
, this is not intimidating atall Right.
(37:29):
And so I'm texting Eric and I'mlike, oh, so-and-so's in class
with me, and he's getting a textfrom his friend dude, your
mom's in class with me.
I was like, oh, but I made it.
It took me six years to get myundergrad degree, and by that
time they were now requiringmaster's degrees.
So if you wanted to stay, I wasalready in a senior leadership
(37:55):
position and so I had the joblong before I had the title.
Right.
I was doing it, and so they paidfor my master's degree as well,
and so my best friend, she wasthe executive vice president.
We went and did our master'sdegrees at the same time.
It was great at UCF.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
So you got to do the buddy program at UCF then.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Did the buddy program at UCF.
I was going to get a master'sin psychology, because
psychology and HR sort of gohand in hand.
Yeah, but my boss, bill Yerginhe is the president still of
Corecraft he's like, oh, you'dbe way more valuable if you had
an MBA.
And so I'm like, well, you'repaying for it, so I'll get the
MBA whatever you want.
And I did, and it was anamazing experience.
(38:40):
Yeah.
So how old were you when yougot your master's degree then?
So well, I just turned 60 thisyear, so I think I was like
maybe 47.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
All right, very similar.
I got my undergrad only becauseI was going to OCS and had to
have a degree to get mycommission, but then I had a
bunch of VA money left over, soI got my master's, but I finally
got it when I was 50.
Really, and that's the otherthing too.
(39:16):
A lot of people that I talk tofrom the military, go to college
later on in life.
Colleges, don't forget, becauseI went to community college
right out of high school andtotally bombed Like every single
class bombed.
So probably 30 years later Iwant to go back and get my
degree.
So I go back to communitycollege.
They put me on academicprobation based on my grades
(39:37):
from 30 years ago.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
So yes, I had to pay for it.
The VA wouldn't pay for mycollege until I got off academic
probation, so I had to doeverything on my own for, like
that first you know semester.
But yeah, they don't forget.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
They don't forget.
Well, I ended up gettingstraight A's all the way through
college, and especially towardsthe end.
I was doing accelerated classesthrough Palm Beach Atlantic, so
the classes flipped over everysix weeks.
Yeah through Palm BeachAtlantic.
So the classes flipped overevery six weeks, yeah, and that
last year I took a ton because Ijust powered through it to get.
I was going to school likeevery night.
(40:11):
I'm like, I'll see you guyswhen I'm done.
Right, and my family, thankfully, my husband was very supportive
, and so I had a good supportsystem underneath, so my
daughter and I, I think,graduated near the same time.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Oh, that's kind of cool.
Yeah, did you walk for yourdegrees?
Okay, I was curious.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I did.
I was like man, I'm walking, Igot this, I'm walking.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Because I walked for my associate's degree but I
didn't walk for my undergrad ormy graduate degree.
I was like ah, I'm just done.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Well, the graduate degree.
You know, it was a cohort andwe all got pretty tight and
close In fact, we're stillfriends now and so we all walked
together and it was UCF, so itwas like massive graduation
Right.
Yeah, you kind of have to go dothat yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So there's something interesting I'm kind of learning
about you is that yourfriendships sort of stay.
Like you know, you went in onthe buddy program and you're
still friends with that person.
You're still friends with yourex-husband.
You're friends with the peopleyou went to college with.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, my very best friend is.
We met in the sixth grade, wow,and she actually married a Navy
guy.
He spent 30 years in the Navyand she moved back here probably
, I guess.
I guess it's been about maybeeight, nine years ago, because
her daughter lives here and wasshe was becoming a grandma as
(41:36):
well and, yeah, we're just bestfriends 30 years.
We just went right back tobeing best friends.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, that grandparent thing sort of sneaks
up on you, doesn't?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
it Well, it's the best thing ever.
Oh, I love it, I love it Iretired at 50 from Correct Craft
because I had told my daughterand son-in-law, like, if you
guys ever, you know, want tohave a child, you know I'll take
care of the baby.
And so I had, you know, gottento a point where I could, um,
(42:06):
retire, so to speak, and um,they were pregnant with, with my
first grandchild, ronan.
And uh, so I did, and that'swhen I start.
I started teaching at Rollins,then I'm an ed, so I'm an
adjunct professor.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Oh, okay.
So like a lot of people, youdon't really retire.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I came out of retirement twice.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, you kind of find things that you want to do
instead of things that you haveto do.
I think that's how I look at it.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Well, you do things, yes.
So when you're younger, youtake the job because you've got
to put food on the table Right.
And then, when you get older,you take the jobs that you like
because it intrigues you, not somuch for the money.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Exactly so.
I want to back up just a littlebit, though.
Tell me about your husband,Bill, and how you met.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So we met.
He was actually some of myfriends at Correct Craft.
He was renting a room from him,so that's how we met.
And then we started dating andhe sort of like had nowhere to
go for thanksgiving that year,and so I am.
The collector of lost souls ishow I how I describe it.
But if you don't have anywhereto go for the holidays, you're
(43:14):
coming to my house okay and umand yeah.
So we ended up getting marrieddated for a little over a year
and then ended up gettingmarried, dated for a little over
a year and then ended upgetting married.
Jennifer and Eric were young.
He was working for the Divisionof Forestry and he was a
dispatcher for forestry at thetime.
And then, yeah, we lived thereat forestry, on the forestry
(43:35):
property for I think five years,which was different.
Yeah.
And they didn't charge us.
They didn't charge us anythingfor like the first couple of
years.
And then they're like, oh yeah,well, we're probably the state
we probably should charge you,because they had little houses
on the property, on Forestryproperty, uh-huh and they're
like, oh, we probably shouldcharge you something.
(43:57):
So they charge us $25 a month.
Wow.
We'll be.
But that experience ended upgiving us the money to buy our
first house.
For the down payment I think weused the.
We didn't use the VA benefit.
Then they had like a first-timehomebuyers thing, so we had to
stay in that house for sevenyears and then we ended up
(44:19):
moving to this house.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Okay, and you've been married for how long, then
years?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
wow this year will be 36 congratulations yeah, thanks
, that's.
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's been quite the challenge, yeah well, I think
you know that's a.
That's a great message.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
For people, though, like marriage is great, but it's
work it is work and my husbandhas Alzheimer's, so that's a
challenge in and of itself, justnavigating that.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yes, I went through that with my grandfather and
then with my stepfather, so it'sdifficult.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
It is difficult.
Yeah, I went through it with mydad as well.
He died last year.
Okay.
He passed on last year.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, my stepfather passed away a few years ago.
Yeah.
And my grandmother too, youknow.
A lot of times we just had tofind humor in it.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Oh yeah, you know, you have to find the humor in it
.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Mm-hmm.
I remember when my parentsstill lived near where I lived
They've moved since, but mygrandmother had Alzheimer's and
we went to brunch.
We used to go to this fancyrestaurant for brunch and we
were all there all the kids, myparents and my grandmother and
it's one of those restaurantswhere they take your coat when
(45:33):
you come in.
So they took my grandma's coatand halfway to the table she's
like where'd my coat go?
And she's asking about thiscoat for like 20 minutes.
So finally her mind goes tosomething else and we're all
sitting around the table lookingat the menus and I looked over
and I said, grandma, where'syour coat at?
(45:54):
Oh my gosh, I thought my mom wasgoing to kill me.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
That is something my son would do.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
But we still share that story.
So yeah, I mean it's sad andit's difficult, but you can
choose to be sad about it or youcan find something to help you
through it.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
You find yourself in that situation.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Yeah, and I have like a really good support system.
Yeah.
I've got my well.
My mom lives with me, butthat's another story.
But my kids, they're great.
My sister is really great.
So we have a good supportsystem.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
That's good, and your kids got along with Bill.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, okay, I mean during the teenage years it was
a little turbulent, but teenageyears are not turbulent.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Right, yeah, but we survived, everybody survived
into adulthood.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, well, that's good.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
That's good.
So your daughter is currentlyteaching.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, she's an elementary school teacher.
That's what she wanted to beher whole life and when she
graduated college in three years, not four and went straight
into teaching, so she was 21 andteaching kindergarten and, yeah
, I was very proud.
So she was 21 and teachingkindergarten and I yeah, it was
I was very proud.
So she's a gifted teacher nowand I think she's probably what,
(47:09):
18 years in now Wow, teaching.
Yeah, she's got three kids ofher own, married, and both my
kids live within two miles.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
That's gotta be, great as a grandmother.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
It is yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'm curious though.
So like, when the grandkidscome over and when they leave,
do you find yourself sleepingfor like two days after they're
gone, cause my grand, mygranddaughter, wears me out?
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So while we had Ronan full time Okay, um, and so
that's the reason why I retiredat 50 was to take care of him.
So I'd pick him up in themornings from their house, bring
him back here.
But I had to learn how to be amom all over again.
I forgot how hard it was to bea mom and how exhausting it was,
(47:55):
but I did, we did it and it waslike the best thing ever.
And then Scarlett came along.
Those two are 18 months apart,exactly 18 months apart, and I
was like, wow, it was easy withone, and so now I've got two.
And so, yeah, so my daughter,I'd go pick the kids up, but
(48:18):
she'd come home and, especiallywith Ronan, I'd give her her
child and her dinner because wewould coordinate.
I'd do the cooking because shecan't cook, and yeah, so it
worked.
So now I'm sort of in thegroove.
It doesn't bother me.
Now there's three of them.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Right, yeah, well, and you're young, yeah, big
picture.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, big picture.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Right, I like to think 60's young, but my kids
don't think so.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I know I think 60's young.
Yeah, my body's telling meotherwise.
In some aspects, right.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
We don't bounce like we used to.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
No, it's harder to get up off the floor.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yes, it definitely is , so you're an adjunct professor
as well.
I am, so you're an adjunctprofessor as well.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I am, and two years ago a friend of mine that I went
to high school with and churchwith, he had asked me to go out
for coffee and so we met.
He needed an HR director and hetold me he's like oh yeah, I'm
working for First PresbyterianChurch now and he's like we need
(49:21):
an HR director because ours isretiring.
I'm like you work for a churchthat needs an HR director.
How many people do you haveworking there typically?
Speaker 1 (49:30):
It's a big church.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
It is a big church.
They have 100.
Wow, but they have a schoolthat's attached to it, which?
is why they have 100.
And so he's telling me you knowthe type of person.
And now the kids are in school,adjuncting.
I was doing some consulting andI'm like, well, what if I
applied?
(49:52):
Because I've always been afaith person and working at
Correct Raft they're afaith-based company as well.
And, yeah, I applied,interviewed, got the job, and
it's probably been.
It doesn't pay as much as someof my other job, but it's the
best job I've ever had.
One of the best jobs.
(50:13):
Craftcraft was really good too.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, it sounds like you just had a series of good
experiences.
Yeah, probably a few bumpsalong the way, but a series of
good experiences A few bumpsalong.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
yeah, there was one I worked at for a year and I was
like, oh, this is not for me.
They were actually paying me alot of money, but I was like not
for me.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Have you discovered that money's great, but your
sanity's a little bit moreimportant?
Sanity and time, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
My time, when the kids were growing up.
I have a lot of regrets aboutoh, I had to work, so I missed
that field trip or whatever.
Now I tell people that I teachand that have worked for me
never miss a field trip.
Don't be afraid to come to meand ask for the day off because
you've got to go do somethingwith your kids.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
And so I think they appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Well, your experience is going to help them have an
even better experience.
Yeah, yeah, I can understandthat.
Yeah, I think something changesin us.
Well, again it's.
We had to do this because theyhad to put food on the table,
and now I can kind of choosewhat I want to do.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
And so do you feel like you're positively impacting
, like that, next generation offolks that are going to be
working?
Speaker 2 (51:25):
I totally feel that way.
There's actually the ladythat's working for me now.
She is going to nursing schoolat night Now she's a single mom
so I already feel for her and,yeah, she's doing her homework
(51:46):
all day.
She's a receptionist, so shehas a lot that allows her to be
able to do that, whereas somepeople it would probably drive
them crazy.
But I'm like, if she can do itit's not hurting anybody and
ultimately in the end she'sbettering herself.
That's why I'm here yeah well,and you're gonna.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
When you do those sorts of things, you make better
employees yeah like an employeethat you've taken care of.
They're nine times out of ten.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
I remember that right right, yeah, so people remember
how you made them feel yes,somebody.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
there's a quote about that somewhere, I think the
nation's poet actually wrotesomething about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you, I mean you've done alot, uh, in in your
semi-retired but not retired Um,you know you've raised a family
, you're taking care of a family, you're taking care of your
husband and a lot going on.
(52:41):
I do want to ask really twomore questions.
The first one is is thereanything that we haven't talked
about that you would like toshare as part of your story?
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Part of my story.
Well, because I was in theright place at the right time, I
think, and I mean Corecraftgave me so many opportunities.
I mean we started doing missiontrips around the world and I've
been to a ton of places becauseof that and my master's degree
(53:19):
got to go to China as part ofthat program.
It was built into thecurriculum Amazing.
You know just the opportunitiesthat I've had.
I am so grateful for.
I'm like I never thought thatthis would be the life that I
(53:40):
would have.
I figured I'd just go to worksomeplace like my dad and stay
there until I retired doingmenial nothing.
And that's not the way itturned out.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
It's amazing how life does that.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
I want to ask you a question about your so you did
mission trips.
Yeah, I know this is not a fairquestion, but if you could just
pick one of those that was yourabsolute favorite, tell me
about that.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, it was the very first one to Mexico.
Okay, because that one changedmy life.
They were all great and I gotto go to Ethiopia and all these
different countries, but thatone changed my life because I
had worked for this faith-basedcompany and we have guests come
in and there were, you know,bible studies and whatnot, but
(54:26):
our president, bill Yergin.
He was new to the company andhe told me we're going to do
mission trips and I was like,we're going to do what?
And he's like, yeah, I want youto find a place where we can go
and take employees out of thecountry.
You can't be in the UnitedStates.
I thought he was crazy.
I'm like how are we going to dothis?
You do this through church.
And I found a company.
(54:48):
I didn't know how to do it, soI'm one.
If I don't know how to dosomething, let's go find
somebody who does.
So I did.
I found a company calledMissionary Ventures they
specialize in short-term missiontrips and went to Mexico.
So they flew me out toCalifornia.
I went in through Tijuana,mexico, and met these
missionaries and they'rebuilding houses in Mexico.
(55:11):
It's a house to them, it's ashed to us, it's a house to them
and I said, okay, we're goingto do this.
I said okay, we're going to dothis.
So we took 25 people in July toMexico.
It was hot.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
And we were staying in a campground, we were camping
at night, and so there were nofacilities, I mean, and the
smell was just unbelievable.
And that first night BillYergin asked us we were praying.
He said if you want to say theprayer of salvation, say the
prayer.
And I was sitting there priorto this, and the sun was going
(55:54):
down and we're in Mexico and Ihad already thought to myself
God, why did you bring me here?
I am in this spot, spot in thisplace.
That is pushing me way outsidemy comfort zone.
I mean, my gag reflex was onoverdrive most of the time that
we were there because of thesmells and I'm like there's got
(56:17):
to be a reason.
So there's something biggergoing on here.
And so I said that prayer thatnight.
And I told him about it thenext day because we were on the
work site, we were taking alunch break and I tried to get
up as high as I could, away fromthe breeze, and I told him that
I had said the prayer ofsalvation and so he prayed with
(56:40):
me that night.
I could not talk about it for ayear after that, could not.
Even now I will start to cryabout it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yeah Well, how does I mean, how did that feel for you
?
Like, was that like a weightlifted?
I think it was a wake-up call.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
In that now I knew what my purpose was.
He had showed me what my giftwas Like.
I didn't believe in myself.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Right yeah, which amazes me because even up to
that point in your life, if youjust look back on all the things
that you had accomplished,right, you just look back on all
the things that you hadaccomplished.
Right, and I think too, thatmany times we look back and talk
about what we have accomplished, but really there's a lot of
(57:32):
things going on behind thescenes that helped you
accomplish those things.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Yeah, People, spiritual, all of those things,
yeah, all those things.
And I look back at it now andI'm like it was divine
intervention all along the way.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, I can't imagine working for a company that says
we're going to do a missionoutside the country.
That's just we build boats, butwe're going to do this.
That's why they're successful.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
That's why they're successful.
Yeah, and so I feel like he hadshowed me my gift was yeah, I
can go and I can hammer a nailin, but my real gift is in being
able to organize, and becausethere's a lot that goes into it
the transportation, the, foodthe safety.
All of that goes into takingall these people from outside,
you know, outside the UnitedStates and getting them all back
(58:19):
safely.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Yeah, getting them all back safely.
Yeah, do you think that whenyou look back on the leadership
positions that you were forcedto take, you feel like those are
little knocks on the door?
Yeah, they were, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
They were.
They were like Shirley, wake up, we know you're in there
Because I could have easily.
You know my dad, he was offeredpositions but in leadership and
he never would take them andyou know, he just sort of went
along.
He was the worker bee and um,yeah, but part of it is too is
(58:51):
saying yes when the opportunitycomes along.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Right, right, what's?
What's the old joke about theguy, the guy in the flood?
I don't know if you've heardthis, stop me.
There's a guy, there's a floodthat hits this guy's town and,
uh, you know, as the waters arerising, a a boat comes by and
and offers him help and he says,no, the lord will take care of
me.
And then the water gets alittle higher and another boat
(59:15):
comes by and he said, oh, thelord's going to take care of me.
And then the water gets alittle higher, a helicopter
comes by and he says, nope, theLord's going to take care of me.
And the guy drowns.
Yeah.
And he gets to heaven and hesays what's the deal?
You said you'd take care of me.
And the Lord says I sent youtwo boats and a helicopter.
What more did you want?
Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yeah, I have heard that story and I think about it
all the time and I'm like, yeah,he sent me stuff all along the
way, so working for a church nowthat is the amazing part.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, does it feel kind of full circle for you Full
?
Speaker 2 (59:49):
circle?
Yeah, in fact they had asked mebecause I started out as a
department of one in HR and I'mending as a department of one in
HR.
In between there's been a lotbig teams and stuff like that.
Lots of people, a thousandpeople, and now I'm back to 100,
department of One and the headpastor, david Swanson, had asked
(01:00:12):
me well, how do you feel aboutthat?
I'm like this is my full circlemoment and I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yeah, so I don't want to think too far in the future,
but what do you think is nextfor you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Gosh, I don't want to think too far in the future,
but what do you think is nextfor you, gosh?
I don't know.
I think so.
My son is very entrepreneurial.
My son-in-law isentrepreneurial.
I help them both with theirbusinesses and I think that
there will be something a jointventure in the future that I
(01:00:44):
will support them on.
I'm not the out in the frontand I'm great behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, I look forward to seeing that next chapter too.
Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Well, I've asked a lot of questions today and
you've had an amazing life,thank you.
I'm a firm believer in that.
Everything we do brings us tothe point where we're at right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
And so really just one last question, as we kind of
wrap this up, and that is whensomeone's watching this 100
years from now and you and Iaren't here anymore.
What message do you want toleave for people?
Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
I think the message would be don't be afraid.
I think the message would bedon't be afraid.
You've got to say yes whensomebody asks you.
Don't operate out of fear.
If you don't know something,learn it.
Be a lifelong learner.
I never thought I would go tocollege and here I am.
(01:01:39):
I'm teaching college, and itdidn't happen until later.
So it's never too late, and putyourself outside your comfort
zone.
Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
You'll be so richly rewarded.
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
That's what I want them to know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
All right, well, thank you for sharing that.
Thanks for taking time out on aTuesday to talk with me.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
I appreciate it.
Thank you for coming here.
I didn't fly here, you did.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
That's true.
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