From College to Navy: Michael Spayde's Journey

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today is Monday, june 9th 2025.
We're talking with MichaelSpade, who served the United
States Navy, so welcome, michael.
Thanks.
All right, good to see youagain.
It's been a little bit of time.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
It has been.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
I think it was like the snow was blowing or
something the last time wetalked.
I think so.
Yeah, I think so.
Anyway, it's been a while, solet's just start out.
You know kind of simple whenand where were you born?

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Youngstown Ohio.
I was born August 5th 1970.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Okay, so you're a 70s , 80s kid, gen X, alright, so
did you grow up in Youngstown?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
No, we actually moved .
When I was in second grade, Ithink.
We moved to Terre Haute,indiana.
Okay, and what precipitated themove?
Dad's job?
He was in aluminum uh, inaluminum manufacturing okay, in
uh in tarahote okay and uh, fromthere he was.
I'm sorry he was in steel inyoungstown and then aluminum in

(00:55):
tarahote okay and then fromthere the aluminum plant shut
down as well.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
So yeah, this was kind of a point in time for our
country where those industriesare really struggling, right,
yeah, right.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat it was like to grow up in
Terre Haute then.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Redneck kid, yeah, with all my buddies.
The school was actually prettybig, terre Haute North.
We had about 800 in our grade,800 graduating class, I think we
started with 12.
Okay, so it was a pretty bigclass, but it was.
We were country, country kids.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, did you so?
Did you like go through schoolwith, uh, like all the same
people?
Pretty much yes.
So your friends, like fromthird grade on, were your
friends for the most part?
Yes, okay, do you have anybrothers?

Speaker 3 (01:39):
and sisters, uh, sister, sister, three years
younger.
Okay, she, I mean, we don'treally keep in contact.
Yeah, so we're, I don't know,we just don't keep in contact,
okay.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, I won't ask about that then.
How about that?
That'll work.
So what can you tell me aboutyour parents?
So your dad worked in the steelindustry and then the aluminum
industry.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yep, both my parents are still around, okay.
Still kicking.
My dad worked in the aluminumI'm sorry steel industry, then
aluminum industry and then hewent from there to service
physical plant manager forschools.
Oh okay, he went from, I think,Saginaw Valley State and then
he moved to East Lake Ohio, soCleveland area, and then from

(02:22):
there he retired.
So they're snowbirds now, yeah,yeah, so do they still have a
he?

Speaker 1 (02:24):
retired, so they're snowbirds now.
Yeah, yeah, so do they stilllike have a place up here in the
north somewhere?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
There is that they have a house in Willoughby Well,
a condo, three-story condo, andneither of them can go up or
downstairs very well anymore.
So I'm thinking this might bethe last year they're probably
going to sell it, probablylooking for a ranch style,
something or other.
I'm trying to talk them into.
Hey, why don't you guys come uphere and just rent a house
somewhere between here andSaginaw, which is where my

(02:48):
sister lives?
Yeah, halfway in between, whynot?
Yeah, that'd be perfect.
They're only up here for fiveor six months, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
I have a lot of neighbors that are like that I
don't see them until May.
Yep, snowbirds, yep, snowbirds,yep, they're gone until
whenever, yeah.
So, uh, tell me a little bitabout school.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I want to back up with just a tiny bit school what
was that like?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
going through school and it's the 70s and you know I
think I joke with everyone likewe drink out of the hose.
We stayed out till whenever wasthat was like for you it?

Speaker 3 (03:17):
was exactly like that .
So we I mean I can still tastethe rubber from the hose every
time I I'm watering I'm wateringmy garden right now and I turn
that hose on.
I'm like I still remember thetaste.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Um.
So, yeah, we drank a lot of uhhose water.
Uh-huh, stayed out until dark.
When the lights came on, weneeded to be home right um road.

(03:41):
I mean you know, I don'tcountry kids.
I mean I rode my bikeeverywhere.
Um, we had BB gun wars, uhpotato bazooka wars.
I mean, we did all you know allthe stupid things that we did.
We rode bikes without helmetsand you know, I'm sure my
parents drank when they werepregnant and you know, yeah,
turned out pretty okay, I think,yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
You know it's funny when you talk about the bb gun
fights and some people look atyou like what you and I so did
you guys do this, so um, Iremember like I just had a daisy
, like red rider bb gun right,had one of those, but then you
had that.
You always had that kid thathad like the, the, the one that
you pumped up like 20 times pumponly yes okay, so you guys had
the rule one pump only.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, I remember those days I got curl in my
slight pump pump.
I want pump, just to make sure.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, exactly was like dang it.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
That was more than one man.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
That's not fair so when you say you're a country
kid, did you like live out inthe country?
Then is that?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
we actually, um it was.
It was a neighborhood, um, justa small, you know neighborhood
that was in the middle of thecountry.
I think it was probably acornfield.
At one point we were surroundedby cornfields.
I guess I've lived my life thatway the whole time.
From there I moved out and wentto college, did that thing.
My first house with my firstwife was literally a

(05:05):
neighborhood in the middle of acornfield.
That's what Potterville is,right, right, exactly.
And then from there, sunfield.
That's what Sunfield is.
It's a big corn, you know.
Yeah.
Neighborhood in the middle of acornfield.
Oh exactly, and now I'm inLeslie Lots of corn.
It's a neighborhood in themiddle of a cornfield, so that's
me yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
So what, um?
What did you go to college todo?

Speaker 3 (05:28):
I went to college initially to be a nurse okay
went to purdue.
Um, it was a lot of fun, mostof which I don't remember,
unfortunately.
Um, that would explain whyyou're not a nurse.
That would explain why I'm nota nurse and I realized that I
don't care for blood that much.
Yeah, um, so that wrapped.
That was a whole year.
Um moved back in with myparents, got my, got my stuff

(05:50):
straight, yeah, and uh then wentto, uh, went to Kalamazoo, went
to Western for a little while.
Okay.
Decided to continue partying.
Uh huh, um, got my act togetheragain and finished up at
Davenport.
That was my first degree.
Okay.
Um and went to work.
I was, uh, you know, in thecivilian world um different

(06:12):
office type jobs, uh huh, endedup in HR.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, and so how did the Navy fit into all this?

Speaker 3 (06:18):
Uh, my parents talked me out of joining the Marine
Corps out of high school.
Okay, I listened to them.
Was it a good thing or?
a bad thing it wouldn't haveturned out the same.
I mean, I wasn't ready, Ididn't.
I don't think I grew up until Iwas 25 or 26.
I mean really, and I mean whenI was 28,.

(06:40):
I decided to actually, when Iwas 28, I was between jobs
because SMNP, you know, wetalked about that a little bit
earlier.
But uh, they, they'd moved me toNaperville and didn't didn't
offer enough to make it worththe move, um, so at that time I
was unemployed, um, I hadapplied to a human resources

(07:01):
position that happened to be ablind ad from the Navy reserves.
And I got a phone call from myrecruiter, matt Wright, nc one,
and uh, he said, why don't youcome down, talk to me, okie,
dokie, and talked to him alittle bit and decided that, you
know, now I had a chance, itwas just a reserve, had a chance

(07:23):
to join.
And you know, now I had achance, it was just a reserve.
I had a chance to join andmaybe do something that I missed
doing when I was 18.
Um, I did so.
I was a reservist for, you know, about two years, okay, and my
recruiter called me up and said,hey, we need a recruiter.
Like, uh, hey, that's kind ofwhat I do, and so interviewed

(07:45):
and took it to your contract,okay, as a canvasser recruiter
that's what they called it,canrec, and loved it.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
So a lot of guys I talked to, myself included, we
all joined the military prettyearly in life, but there was
always, like that, one or twodudes at boot camp that were
like 31 years old.
Super old.
They're so old, so you know Iwas, so I was in boot camp in
2002 so yeah, that's 32 yearsold yeah, in boot camp yeah, I

(08:16):
was grandpa, okay, yeah, now Iwent to ocs when I was 38, so I
get it, because you got to keepup with the young guys, sure.
But so what, what was your?
I mean, you've been on your own.
You went to college, got yourdegree, did some partying, got
married, but you pretty much gotyour life going.
You've had a regular job andnow you're a bootcamp.
Like what was that all?

(08:37):
What was that like?

Speaker 3 (08:39):
It was interesting, um, I know how to fold my
underwear.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
I know how to.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
I knew how to you know, tuck my socks together and
, you know, put them together inmy drawers.
Um it, it was interesting, itwas, it was, I guess, I, I, I
approached bootcamp from adifferent perspective from a you
know a 10,000 foot perspective.
Um, I knew the purpose ofbootcamp.
It was to break you down as anindividual, build you back up as

(09:06):
the team.
I get it, I got it from day one.
I, I, I knew that's what wasgoing to happen.
Going into it, right, um, aboutday three, I still said what
the hell did I do?
Um, and my locker was perfectevery single time and it got
tossed every single time.
Um, you know it's what.
I knew what the purpose was.

(09:27):
Right, you had to play the game, had to play the game and
that's what it was.
It was a game, um, I helpedeverybody that I could, all the
kids, because there were, likeeverybody else, um, so it was.
You know it was an interestingtime in my life.
Yeah, interesting time.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well, and I think too that probably you're
questioning your own judgmentfor those few days is probably a
different type of questioningyour own judgment.
That I did when I went in at 19or 18, right like I questioned
my own judgment because I was, Ihadn't had any experience yet,
sure, but you had.
But still, it's refreshing toknow that even the old guys uh,

(10:04):
questioned whether they're not.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
I think that's universal I think that's
universal, I think everybody.
I mean what?
I mean, what did I know when Iwas 18?
Yeah, I didn't know anything.
I mean, you know, looking at,looking back at that, I mean I
was partying girls.
Yeah, I mean, that's prettymuch my life from 18 to 28 now,

(10:29):
were you married at the time youwent to?

Speaker 1 (10:31):
I was to boot camp, okay, first one, all right, and
you um, so you go to basictraining.
And then did you go to, likepensacola for, uh, recruiting
school?
I did, I was a recruiter, sookay yeah, I loved pensacola.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Pensacola is an awesome place.
Um, I enjoyed my time thereevery single time.
Um, I went back for classifierschool, so another four weeks
down there.
Um, a couple of differentrecruiter awards was presented
down there to me.
Um, I just I loved being downthere.
It was, it was an awesome base.
I mean, you literally didn'thave to go anywhere, right, um,

(11:07):
except for the sushi placeoutside the back gate.
Uh, can't remember the name ofit, but blue angel rolls were
awesome.
Uh, I think it was soft shellcrab.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
um, and then pensacola beach, of course,
right, right.
And there was all the bars downthere too.
I went.
I was there in the lateeighties, early nineties, okay,
and uh, two things to go on mywell, actually three things.
One it was, hands down,probably one of the best
assignments ever, which is greatto be there.
But two things happened when Iwas there.
One is that I um, I atebarbecue from the exchange, okay

(11:41):
, the exchange okay, and gotsick, I like on a friday, and I
thought I was gonna die allweekend, like I wondered what I
had done in a previous life tomake this happen to me.
And I, because I got startedgetting sick at a bar and I'm
not a big drinker, so it wasn'tlike I was drinking, it was this
, yeah, so that happened.
And then the other thing thathappened, remember, you go to
recruiting school and you had tolike, do like speeches and

(12:01):
things like that.
You get up in front of yourclass and they critiqued you,
right.
So I got up in front of theclass and I do my little speech
and all I remember is one guy.
One guy wrote on his critiquehow many times is this guy gonna
check his fly to make sure it's?
Because I must have beenchecking my fly every two
seconds, I guess.
Right, okay, so yeah, that was.

(12:23):
That was my recruiting schoolexperience.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
And what I remember, we had a couple of guys, uh,
when I was in recruiting school,uh, that were over height and
weight standards that way, um,myself included, I never made
height or weight.
I had to make tape, yeah.
Um I made tape.
I mean that's, I made tape.
I mean that's, that's just.
You know what I did.
And uh, I remember having to PTas a group, all of us, because

(12:49):
of these couple of guys, and uh,again, I mean I knew the
purpose it was, it was a teameffort and military, it's just.
It's just what we did.
Yeah, and we PT'd twice as longas we had to every single day,
seven days a week.
I think it was six weeks, yeah,it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, we didn't.
We didn't experience any ofthat.
I was fit back in the day, sure, sure, fortunately, I guess so
was everyone else in that class.
So now, did you have kids?
At this time, I have nobiologicals.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
So you, uh, you get done, you come back home and you
start recruiting.
Talk to me about what was thatlike for you.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Oh, it was interesting.
Um started recruiting as.
Uh, when did I start?
I started recruiting, I thinkmy, I want to say February of
2004.
Okay, when I started, um, I wasat the research center in
Lansingansing, saginaw andMarshall Street, I think.
Yeah, right there at the corner.
Yep, the Quonset Hut.
Yep, it's a National Guardrecruiting office now.
It used to be the Naval ReserveCenter for Lansing.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, and at one time , because I grew up down the
street from there.
At one time it was like aMarine Corps.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, it was Navy and Marine Corps.
Yeah, okay, because the Marinesway better than the Navy staff.
I had a lot of fun.
Matter of fact, I just met,reconnected, with the supply
sergeant that retired back in2009.
Yeah.
It was a supply sergeant at theReserve Center, the guy that I
hung out with regularly.
How cool is that.

(14:20):
And it was, you know, in mywork today I just I, you know,
blind, blind dad, or blind emailcontact, Uh-huh, and he calls
me and he's like hey yeah, it'slike ask me who I was, ask me my
name.
He's like did you by any chancework at, uh, at the reserve

(14:40):
center?
So, as a matter of fact, I did,you know, from 2000 and you
know, four to 2000,.
You know well, I actually hadhad to move to the recruiting
office, and on the South side,but, um, but it was, it was the
same guy, and so we reconnected.
Um, we needed some help withthe work that I do now.
Um, and we ended up meeting atthe gun range.

(15:03):
So I figured you know, Marine,I need to shoot.
Maybe he still shoots and he'slike oh yeah, I got two new ones
, I got to try them out.
Perfect timing.
So we met up there.
We had actually middle of theafternoon, we were there by
ourselves, probably a two-hourconversation Get reacquainted.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Did you find, though, that like it was just easy.
Like I run into guys I haven'tseen in 10 years and it's like
just pick up.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
There's nothing, we just go yeah, and it seems like
that with almost everybody Ideal with and my work is
veterans.
So you know, and that's.
It's easy to talk to people.
There's no icebreakers.
It's like you know, have a haton or you know know a shirt, or
you know it's.
It's just, I go have aconversation.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, I mean regardless of what branch of
service, kind of all speak thesame language.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
It doesn't matter.
I think at this point, itdoesn't matter.
Yeah, you know, we, we all wentthrough the same thing it.
It doesn't matter what branchyou were in, we all got broke
down, we all got built up.
And again, hindsight, lookingback, it's at least for the Navy
, and I assume it's the samewith all the branches.

(16:16):
But as you progress through theranks, you are required to be a
leader.
That's you know.
You are required to be a leader.
Yeah, that's, that's you know.
You're required to be a leader.
You know, in my work today,what I find is the folks who got
out early are the ones who havethe most problems.
Yeah, in their, in theircareers, in their career path.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Well, if you think about it too.
So we're going to talk aboutwhat you do today.
But you know we'll put a pin inthat.
But you know the statistics arepretty crazy.
That like 50% of the people whoget out of the military leave
their first job within the firstyear, I would agree, and then
75% total leave before thesecond year.
Because it's not the.
The civilian world is not thesame as military.

(16:58):
I agree, and especially if yougot out after not serving a
whole lot of time Sure Right,because I don't think you had
that time to develop as a leader.
You're still again.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Just an observation from a guy that's been there and
done that.
In the Navy.
You really don't get into aleadership position until you're
an E4, the officer, third class.
Then you might have a littleworkstation, a couple of people,
um, but from there it justprogresses, progresses.
Through your career, you know,and however long you serve, you

(17:35):
know by the time you get outyou've you've had all of the
experience that you need to besuccessful and if you did it
right if you have, you know ifyou did it right, you're going
to come out, you're going to besuccessful.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Absolutely, and we'll get into that.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So you, you did the recruitinggig for a few years.
Um, anything stick out in yourmind about recruiting, like I
mean, I've got a million stories.
I'm not going to share mine,cause this is your story, but
yeah, anything like stick out inyour mind while you were doing
recruiting, do the like.
When you think back, that'swhat you think about.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Oh, nothing in particular there's.
I mean it was.
It was a lot of fun.
Yeah, you know, looking back atit, um, it was a lot of hours,
a lot of days, a lot of people.
Yeah, um, yeah, it was.

(18:30):
It's just, you know, likedifferent things.
You know, I I lost, um, I lostone of my recruits, a female uh,
because she was pregnant.
She tested positive for apregnancy test at maps and I
worked out of Lansing, so youknow I had Lansing MAPS, so it
was never.
There was never windshield time.
It was like cool, drop her offyou know, hey, but you know, hey

(18:53):
, you know, uncle, you know,grab, grab your girl, drop her
off, grab your you of it nextSunday.
Yeah, um, but I didn't.
I couldn't even make it fromthe office to maps.
My boss was on the phone.
What's going on?
Uh well, she tested positive.

(19:14):
This is your fault.
Yeah, uh, excuse me, this isyour fault.
How's it my fault, chief?
How's it my fault?
I didn't have sex with herRight.
My fault, chief.
I was at my fault.
I didn't have sex with herright.
It's your fault.
You should have had to.
You should have had to talkabout birds and bees.
That's fraternization, chief.
I would have gotten trouble forthat too.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, fix it, it's a catch-22 fix it?

Speaker 3 (19:38):
how am I gonna fix it ?
It was, that's, that's one ofthe, that's one of the memories.
Um, right, just just thingslike that.
Just, you know differentrecruits.
Um, got a got a pair ofbrothers, uh-huh, from holt area
, still in contact with theirmother.
Uh, both are doing well.
Um, I've had several individuallike I are.

(20:01):
I guess we're moving into work,so yeah, so you so.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, so you got out.
Are you so?
Were you still married at thistime then?
Or yes, okay, yes.
So you stayed married right upthrough the time you got out of
the navy just before.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
So okay with my second wife okay so I had.
I had two wives during my my 20years, 10 years each okay, so
I've been married for 20 years.
Starter wives yeah, somethinglike that, exactly.
Yeah, we won't go there.
Okay, so you get out and years10 years each.
Okay, so I've been married for20 years.
Starter wives yeah, somethinglike that, exactly.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, we won't go there.
Okay, so you get out and whatdo you do?

Speaker 3 (20:31):
I work with veterans doing career services, so um
anything employment related.
Uh, that's what I do forveterans.
Okay.
My specialty.
What I really enjoy isprofessional profiles.
So give me your resume, let's,let's get it working.
So do you help demilitarizepackage?
No, I don't want to do that.
That's not, that's, that's notmy mission.

(20:51):
Okay, my mission is to get youa job.
Okay, my mission is to not notlet me rephrase my mission is to
.
But I get them prepared to getthere themselves.
So every tool that I haveavailable is in their toolbox
now.

(21:11):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
All right, and this is a operation job ready.
Veteran.
That is correct.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yep Based out of Indianapolis.
Uh, we're actually 16 peoplenow Um, all veterans, well, all
veterans, except one spouse,veteran spouse or army spouse.
Okay, so, active duty armyspouse, so, um, but yeah, it's
all right, it's a greatorganization.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
How long have you been doing this?

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Uh, I started January 22nd, 23.
Okay, oh, 24, 24.
I'm sorry 24.
Okay, oh, 24, 24.
I'm sorry, 24.
So my retirement date for theNavy was February 29th.
I was on terminal leave.
My goal was when I started theretirement process.
My goal was to have a jobworking before I actually got
off the roles for the Navy.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Now let me ask you a question Do you think that your
time looking for a job aftergetting out of the Navy helped
you in how you work with peoplenow?

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Absolutely, absolutely it's, it's fresh,
it's right there.
Um, you know my, my attitude,coming from recruiting.
I've been doing this, I've beendoing this stuff for 25 years.
It's a piece of cake.
I get.
I get me a job right now.
Um, that's, that was theattitude I mean that's.
You know I started in sixmonths out.

(22:25):
So the I think it was September.
You know September 1st is whenI started.
You know, my career search forthe, for the.
What am I going to do next?
Right, um, you know it wasuncertain.
I, you know I didn't know.
You know I, I, I'm six monthsout and my, my, my background's
HR.
You know, my background is HR.

(22:47):
I can't approach a civilianemployer six months out.
I can't.
It doesn't make sense.
So I just started looking forstate jobs.
I figured state jobs.
It's going to take at leastthree or four months and then,
if, transparency, my retirementdate is here, everything should

(23:07):
be fine.
18 interviews with the state ofMichigan.
Wow, 18 interviews, 18 denialletters.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Um, it was an attitude check.
Um, I went back and looked.
I talked to some friends, verygood friends uh, that are in the
HR industry and, uh, one of mysome friends very good friends
that are in the HR industry andone of my closest friends.
Her name's Ellen.

(23:27):
She's like that interview youwent on.
Did you own the room when youwalked in?
Of course, I did.
That's what I do.
Can't do that.
Oh yeah.
Just, you know, I forgot aboutit, it was check, check the
attitude.
You know you don't run the room, you answer the questions right

(23:49):
, you know, and you do.
You know, you, you be honest,be transparent.
Um, my job search was very, um,very restrictive because of
things that I wanted or didn'twant.
Yeah, Um, I've been driving,you know, for the, for my
professional career.
I've been driving, you know,for the for my professional
career.
I've been driving to and fromwork, hours, hours, hours of

(24:10):
driving.
I didn't want to drive morethan 10 miles.
Well, living in Leslie, I meanLansing, right, Jackson, yeah,
you know, no more than that typeof a commute.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
You don't want to be in Livonia or Grand Rapids or
someplace like that.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
No, been there, done that.
Yeah, um, I I actually at onepoint in my career, um, I, I
lived in Potterville and I, I, Idrove to St Joe, I worked at
Whirlpool for manpower and thatwas 107 miles, one way, 365 days
, Um, and it worked.
I got an offer for one of mycontractors, uh huh, so that

(24:45):
wascom, so that wascom boom and,uh, unfortunately bust, right,
um, so what goes up must comedown.
You got it.
We never had a product.
We never had a product Right.
It was always, you know,getting the money, getting the
cash and hiring new people to dosomething and we just didn't

(25:05):
have the product Right.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
As close to a Ponzi scheme as you can get without
being illegal.
Yes, yes, yeah, well, I meanyou can sell an idea.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yes, you can.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
And as a former recruiter you probably knew I
mean when you're recruiting youare selling an idea, right.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
I mean it's not a tangible product.
We're going to go into a wholething at this point, I think,
with that question.
Um, when I decided to leavesmmp because you know, again, we
discussed it, but you know, themoving to naperville wasn't
wasn't an option for us um, Iwas looking for a new job.
It was frustrating.

(25:45):
Um, yeah, I was a recruiter, Iwas an HR, you know, an HR
generalist, basically for SMMP,um, and that's the kind of job I
was looking for, um and I.
I had an interview I think itwas with career builder as a
matter of fact, I don't thinkthey're around anymore, but it
was a.
It was a career, uh, like, likemonstercom, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Monster or what is it .
There's a bunch of them outthere.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
There are a bunch of them now, all those places, but
the, uh, the.
The interview was for asalesman position and I didn't
realize that when I went andquickly realized that's what I

(26:28):
was interviewing for, during theinterview I went home and I was
bummed out.
It's already been months thatI've been unemployed again by my
choice and talking to my wifemy ex she sat me down and she's
like look, dude, you are asalesman, that is what you do.
And it was literally anepiphany.
It was like holy cow, that ismy life, that's what I do.

(26:53):
I didn't like it because in myhead I was an HR guy.
Yeah, um, I embraced it and Imean at this point I try not to
sell because that's my entireeverything.
Right, you know it's, it's partof who I am.

(27:14):
You know, in the sense ofurgency, you know my, my sense
of urgency is stresses me out.
It stresses me out Sometimesstresses other people out too,
doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (27:26):
It does, yeah, and again.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
That's you know the, the, the recruiters.
In the current work that I do,I've spoke with many recruiters.
You know very similarbackgrounds or just you know
that was our last duty stationor career recruiters.
And it was one of the things Iasked him like how you know,
were you successful as arecruiter?
Because you know recruiting isit's it's it's a tough gig.
Yeah, you know it's.

(27:48):
It's not the job for mostpeople it's just a three-year
tour.
I think for, at least for theNavy, it was a three-year tour.
Um, I had more trouble withemployees than success with
employees and it wasn't aleadership issue, it was they're

(28:08):
not cut out for this job andyou can't hire them, you can't
fire them, you just have to dealwith them and try to do the
best you can with what you have.
You can't fire them, you justhave to deal with them.
Right.
And try to do the best you canwith what you have.
We figured out how to do it,but it was tough.
It was tough and therealization that I'm a salesman.

(28:30):
That's my profession.
I can put any kind of word onan HR guy.
I can.
I can, I can put that on there,you know, but I'm still selling
a company.
You know the Navy, you know as arecruiter, you sell.
You know as as any, any branch,I mean you, you, you sell.
You're trying to sell to a 17,18 year old kid a concept that

(28:53):
most people in today's worldhave never even heard of from
their family.
They have no idea or theirguidance counselor or whoever.
Right, with the guidancecounselors, they didn't want
military, they wanted everybodyto go to college.
That's how they got scored.
That's how they got scored.

(29:13):
It was dealing with.
My entire career in the Navyhas been millennials and Zs.
Yeah, you know, and they justdidn't have generally, they just
didn't have the wherewithal tofigure out.
You got to do something.

(29:34):
Yeah, what do you?
I mean you flip burgers allyour life.
This is what we offer.
This is how we can help.
This is what we do.
You can pick any job, any jobthat's in the civilian world.
I can tell you the jobequivalent in the United States
Navy.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
And it's the same job .

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Exactly the same Recruiting is recruiting
Cranking a wrench on a dieselengine.
It's called an engine Out there, it's called a diesel mechanic.
If you play your cards right,you can get your certification
paid for by the Navy.
You can walk out with a job intwo weeks making 60, 70 bucks an

(30:14):
hour.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Or the trades any trade anything, well, and the
catch was, though, you couldn'tlike, you didn't know what they
were going to, what was going tobe available, what they
qualified for Right, that is.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
So you had to you really had to walk that line
about don't sell a job.
Selling a job, right, don'tsell a job.
I mean back back.
You said you're recruiting inwhat the, the, the early
nineties.
Yeah.
That was, that's still.
You know, in the early nineties, what did they call the
recruiting manual?
I couldn't, I couldn't eventell you.
When I joined and startedrecruiting, at some point on our

(30:46):
I don't know third or fourthrevision of our recruiting
manual, um, my boss told me Idon't know if it's true or not,
I didn't, you know, I justthought it was funny.
Um, the recruiting manualmanual used to be called the
arts and crafts of recruiting.
Probably was, and that is oneof the.
You know.
You asked about memories.
That was one of my memories.
You know, the arts and craftsof recruiting.

(31:06):
Um, all the arts and craftsthat we did, yeah, I mean there
was a lot.
I'm not gonna lie like I didn'teven look at the recruiting I
mean to take the tests yeah,yeah, you know, in recruiting
school, but right running, youknow, running the station, every
now and again I did have tolook, look things up.
Yeah, you know, just just as areference, um, but the arts and

(31:30):
crafts of recruiting, it's oneof the memories that will always
stick out for me.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Got to find that book on eBay.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
So true, we did lots of arts, we did lots of crafts,
lots of talking, babysitting,yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Did you find that like?
So I recruited right outside ofcentral Michigan.
And lots of kids would stop inSure Right, lots of them.
And what I found was I kind ofplayed would stop in Sure Right,
lots of them.
And what I found was I kind ofplayed the long game, like you
got to play the short game,because it's always about what
did you do lately?
Yes, just like you might haverecruited seven people, but you

(32:07):
had that one person who showedup pregnant, yep, and now you're
down one person and they don'tcare what you do.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
You're a shit bag.
Yeah, yeah, you on one personand they don't care what you do.
You're a shit bag.
Yeah, yeah, you, you.
You put six people in.
It's the 15th of the month, youlose one.
Yeah, and you're a shit bag.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, exactly, so you start over Master Chief's
tapping on your desk and, yeah,the whole, the whole nine yards.
So, yeah, it's.
It's a very weird.
If you look at people who arein sales car sales, insurance
sales, whatever it's the samething, you know.
Yeah, you sold 20 cars lastweek, right.
How many did you sell this week?

(32:40):
We don't care about this, Right, cause that's all money in the
bank now.
But, yeah, so I, so you would.
I would play the long game andthen what I was getting at to
them because I knew that therewas probably 50% of them are
going to be back, sure, right,because they've all been sold on
college.
College is a great place.
I got my degree, but it is notfor everyone when they're 18.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
And just like the military is not for everyone
when they're 18, there should bea balance, but these kids are
sold on it.
They get to college and like,oh my God, I can't do this,
which is what I did and thenthey come back and then they're
that.
At that point it's likeshooting fish in a barrel.
Sure, because they're ready,you don't even have to, you
don't have to sell them anymore,because they're ready to go
have a seat.
Yeah, or that or like.
Did you ever get that like thatone kid who spent all of his

(33:25):
dad's money not on college andhe had to go somewhere really
quick?

Speaker 3 (33:30):
I did quick, quick ships.
Yep, get out of here, why mydad's gonna kill me, why, why do
you have to get out of here?
Um, right, what?
What also got me a lot in inrecruiting was people just
didn't believe you.
Yeah, when you said, or ask thequestion when's the last time

(33:52):
you smoked?
When's the last time you werearrested?
Two questions you realize we'regoing to do a drug test.
You can't beat it.
Right, you can't beat it.
I don't care what you did, Ineed 30 days clean.
You got it, got it.
You sure Got it Next day.
You got positive.
Clearly, he didn't get it.

(34:16):
Or you know, the next day, hey,you guys got an FBI hit.
You need to get fixed.
Yeah, so an FBI hit.
Is there?
There's a criminal record ofsome sort somewhere.
They've had their fingerprintstaken.
You know in the way that weintroduce this to our candidates
.
You know again, you, you can't,you can't beat this drug test.

(34:37):
If you used it, it will bethere.
Do you ever have yourfingerprints taken?
Ever, not as a kid, like formissing persons, but as from a
police department.
Have you ever had yourfingerprints taken?
No, all right, cool, you sureCool.
I had an FBI hit yeah.
So when that happens you haveto fix it.
Can it be fixed?
Can you get a waiver for it, oris it not waverable that month

(34:59):
Right Are?

Speaker 1 (35:00):
waivers.
Is this a felony or is this amisdemeanor?

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Right Even sometimes a felony, we could work with
Right.
Every now and again, sometimesnot.
Sometimes, yes, so it's reallyyou know those were used.
I think those requirements theywere used to up the applicants
or reduce the applicant levels.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, like a throttle .

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Right, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Exactly correct.
Yeah, and did you.
So we had this really crazyrule like if you smoke dope like
once or twice, that's cool, butif you like smoked it five
times in your lifetime, you werean addict and you couldn't join
.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
They, they, they, they up the up, the, they, they
up the usage, um, they, theycalled it 10.
Um, in my time, um, so it wasthe magic number, up to 10 times
Um, you can get a waiver.

(35:57):
Well, just just to our hq,right from 11 to 100, I think it
went to our regional and then Ithink, over 100, like 101, it
actually had to go to theadmiral of cnrc.
So commander navy recruiting,right, um, you know.
So you know.
Somebody admits it's like okay,how many times I don't know you
gotta have a.
Have a number, brother.
Give me a number, give me anynumber you tell me.
I usually preface that with ifit's any more than 10, it's

(36:20):
going to take a long time, yeah,so how many times did you smoke
it?
Nine times, roger, that.
Make sure you keep that numberin mind, right, because you're
going to be asked 12, 12 moretimes today.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Don't say 15 or 20 later on, or 100.
Or I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Right, pick a number and stick with the number.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Well, you know, and that was something else too is
well, two things really.
One is that as a recruiter Iknow a lot of them did but as a
recruiter, you cannot rely to anapplicant.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Right, correct.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Now I would preface that with I'm not going to
answer questions.
You didn't ask, right?
But anything you ask me, I'mgoing to tell you the truth, yep
.
And if you decide not to joinbecause I told you the truth,
that's fine, because I'd ratherdo that than have you come back
and tell all your friends I'm aliar, because now I'm done.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Now you're a dirtbag.
Yeah, referrals in this, inthis business, in sales, I think
in in any any kind of a sales,you know career referrals or
referrals or money, you know youpiss one person off, they're
going.
It's just, you know, just likethe bad.
You know that that restaurant,you know, you, you have a bad
experience.
You're going to tell 10 peopleIf you have a good experience,

(37:34):
you might tell one, maybe, right, you know, and those referrals
are, are that's, that's money,that's that's how, that's how
our life was made easier.
You know, somebody toldsomebody that they had a good
experience and that person comes.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, Especially if they come like right home from
bootcamp and bring their friendsin.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
that's like gold, it's gold.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Absolutely Cause.
They're like fresh frombootcamp and they're not
complaining and they're all Navy, and they're all.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, all patriotic, and yeah it's, it's
awesome.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, Michael told me everything I.
There was no surprises when Igot there.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
It's.
It's funny that you mentionedthat.
Uh, same thing.
You know, I honestly I don'tnot gonna.
I don't think I lied to anybody.
Yeah, um, I tried not to.
Um, I never.
You know, I've never been on aship, so you know it's something
that I've never admitted to.
Nope, never been on a ship.
But you know, redirect, yeah,you know, redirect that,

(38:30):
redirect that way, um, it is thenavy.
If you have, you're going to goon a ship, more than likely,
right, unless you're my buddyfrom Eaton Rapids who wanted to
be on a ship.
His whole reason for being on aship, joining the Navy, was
being on a ship.
He was in.
He was in our delayed entryprogram for a long time.

(38:52):
He was one of the good ones,yeah, but he chose aviation,
which you should still be out.
Building a ship, yeah, youshould go to a carrier or
something, but his platform werethe AWACS.
They don't land on ships, no,they do not.
And he came back, I think,after his A school.

(39:13):
He's like man, you guys killedme.
It was my buddy's recruit.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
It's like you never told me I'dnever be on a ship.
What do you mean?
I picked this platform and Ican't ever go on a ship.
I'm like, dude, you picked theplatform yourself.
We didn't do any research.
It was a joke.

(39:33):
He wasn't upset about it, right?
Just you know, right, it's likeI just didn't realize it.
Um, and he ended up getting out, moved to colorado.
I think he's a firefighter outthere now.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, so it's a great example if you don't know what
you don't know right like youget in and you start picking
these different schools withdifferent things to do, and
sometimes it works out great andsometimes it's just a suck fest
.
Yep, exactly exactly correct.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, I've had a.
I've had nine people come backthrough the years that eight of
them eight of those nine people,um, had good things to say
thank you.
You know it was a thank you.
You, you know you, you tookcare of it.
One of those nine peoplebrought their son back after
college and I ended up puttingthat person in as an officer

(40:19):
candidate, which was awesome.
People that I've worked with inthe civilian world, that I
stayed in contact with, broughtme their kids.
That's what not lying and beingthat recruiter can do for you.
Yeah, you know, and and afterthe fact, it was always, you
know I introduced myself, youknow, as Michael Spada.

(40:40):
You know, retired Navyrecruiter.
Yeah.
That guy you know, so you knowit's fun, you know it's fun,
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
I would say this too, like if you're listening to
this and someone tells you oh,all recruiters are liars, or
whatever it is, dig into thatstory a little bit.
Oh sure, because nine times outof 10, there's a lot more to
the story than what thatperson's telling you.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
There is, yeah, there is the one person that came
back.
I can't remember his name, butI remember he actually came to
MEPS.
I was working at MEPS at thetime, I was a job classifier.
Um, and he came, and you know,he came into the, into the
office.
It was before, you know, allthe security protocols are that
they have in place now.
Um, he came in he had pinpointpupils and it's like how many,

(41:30):
how many Norcos did you taketoday?
Um, you know, or something,right, that's what that's first
thought that came to my mind.
So, how many Norcos did youtake today?
Um, you know?
Brief conversation.
It's like, yeah, the Navyscrewed me.
I'm like, oh, really, how Well,my doctor got me hooked on on
these Norcos.

(41:50):
Navy doctor, navy doctor,really, okay, I've had a lot of
navy doctors in my life.
I got a flexerol and anapperson, right, nothing more
than a flexerol and napperson.
Here you go, you'll be fine ifyou're in.
If you're in the army, you gotuh ibuprofen napperson,

(42:11):
napperson on my side, but youknow, so you know, digging into
that story.
Yes, you know, there's, there's, there was obviously something
going on there.
Yeah, um, and, and I wouldagree, you know bad, bad
experiences, you know.
I, I, I hear about it stilltoday.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
You know, had experiences in the civilian
world too.
Absolutely, you have terribleemployers and you have terrible
bosses, and absolutely that'sgoing to happen, no matter where
you go.
Right, it's called life, yeah.
Yeah, to me, the great thingabout being in the military was
you had a job like you wereguaranteed a job.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
You have a job that you can't get fired from unless
fraternization, right Drugs, dui, or you know Right Drugs, dui,
or you punched your someone.
You had to do something,something seriously messy.
Yeah, we weren't at will, whichis one of the most important

(43:13):
items in my reasoning forjoining and staying with the
Navy.
Every employer in the civilianworld is at will for the most
part, right.
What's that will employment?
I?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I can get fired for any reason or no reason at all
if I don't like your shirt or Idon't like the way your glasses
look, or yeah you're done.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Have a nice day.
Um, that was the contract inthe civilian world, the contract
with us.
Do your job.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, don't do anything stupid, do your job you
know it's funny, I, when I gotout of the military, I actually
learned a lesson about themilitary from a guy who'd never
been in the military.
But what he told me was I wentinto a sales job for a little
while and what he said was dothe things you know you need to
do and don't do the things youknow you're not supposed to do,
and you'll be successful.

(43:50):
Agree, I was like that kind ofsums up my military experience
Right, exactly, correct.
And if I go above and beyond,then the rewards are there.
You know I'm not going to go toovertime pay or anything like
that, just chest candy.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yeah, I mean, you know ribbons and you know awards
and medals and you know that's.
You know whatever.
You know my, my, I had a secure, you know I had a secure
opportunity.
You know, in in the field thatI was already you know that was
my field.
It was a human resources, youknow, and I looked at it, as I

(44:25):
basically have a quarter of acentury of work available to me
today, the only thing I have todo is do that job and don't do
anything stupid.
You know it sounds.
It sounds easy.
It was unbelievably difficultfor so many people, unbelievably
difficult, and the only thingyou had to do was don't do drugs
, don't drive while you'redrinking, keep your wiener in

(44:48):
your pants.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
And don't talk back most of the time, right.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
That's all you got to do, not do, right?
Whether it's for two years or22 years or 32 years, it doesn't
matter, right?
You know that's.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
That's what the military offers well, and you
make it through your enlistment.
Those simple lessons will makeyou successful in the civilian
world right because so manypeople in civilian jobs just
can't get it right, you know,especially today.
Yeah, you successful in thecivilian world Right Because so
many people in civilian jobs.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
just can't get it right, you know especially today
.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, you bring in a military person.
So this is something I ran intoum at consumers energy, as the
as the um, as the um veteransprogram manager, was that I
worked with veterans coming inbecause you have the veteran
mindset and there's some thingsthat you need to turn off
because you have that veteranmindset and there's some things
that you need to turn off, Sure,Right.
But then also I worked withhiring managers, because all
those things that they hire youfor, they get mad at you for too

(45:41):
.
I agree, Like if someone tellsyou to go do something, they
better be clear, because you'regoing to go do it Right and, in
the absence of orders, you'regoing to do it the way you think
it should be done, Exactly.
So don't get mad at me if youdidn't tell me what you needed
and so that was some of thetraining that civilian
supervisors needed was you bringin a military guy gal.
They're going to do.
We ask them to do.

(46:01):
Make sure you're asking forwhat you want Exactly.
Exactly I agree, yeah, so itreally kind of ties in with what
you're doing, what you're doing.
Now back to a question I askedbefore um, I don't know that I
asked it correctly when I saidso do you help demilitarize
their resumes?
And I think what I was askingwas you know, um, when I got out

(46:22):
I'm like, oh, I was 95, bravo,and I was xyz this and pdq that,
and people would look at thatand they would just throw it in
the trash bin because theydidn't understand.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
It didn't understand.
So the answer to your question,now that that I understand it,
is yes, absolutely, I thought itwas.
Are you demilitarizing theveteran?

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
God, no.
The answer is no, no.
I like to think of it more astranslations.
Yeah, I'm not demilitarizingyour resume.
I want that employer to knowyou are a veteran.
Yeah, absolutely, 100%.
You are a veteran.
First thing, you know your name.
Navy veteran.
You know, or you know whatever,um, you know secret, you know

(47:05):
clearance, your, your clearanceoptions, your, your department
of defense clearance, yoursecurity clearances those are,
you know, items that are huge inthe civilian world.
Whether you still have it oryou used to have it, it's huge,
but it's just a translation fromwhat you did in the military

(47:27):
into civilian terms.
So people like me in myposition as an HR person at that
company you're applying tounderstands what you're trying
to tell them.
Yeah, again, going back tohelping civilians become sailors
, you know my, my biggest salethis, you know, this is what I
counted on.
What do you want to do withyour life?

(47:47):
You know, yes, you want toparty.
Yeah, you want to get hitched.
Yes, all that, yes, all that.
What do you want to do in yourlife, like when you're an adult?
You know, like, uh, sometimesit's like a career, you know,
let's spell it out for him.
Sometimes, right, um, you know,most didn't really know.
I mean, I, I know I, I couldn'thave answered that question
when I was 18.

(48:07):
You know, I did.
I was gonna be a nurse.
Didn't quite work out.
I was gonna say that turned outlike, like a polar opposite
yeah um, um, but you know,that's, that's something that
you know.
What are you going to do?
Okay, so you know, and what didyou do in the?
You know in the military, youknow, if I don't know, you know
acronyms and you know the otherbranch of the service.

(48:34):
You know, I, I, you know, Ihave to learn what you did so I
can translate it for you.
So you know, you can work inthe civilian world, um, so, yes,
that's something that I focuson.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Well, and you find, do you find too?
Like, so you, this wassomething I think that people
struggle with sometimes is that,yeah, I might've done, I
might've, I might've been arecruiter in the Navy, as an
example, but I was a first classpetty officer, I was a chief,
right.
So I do have the HR background,but here's all the things, the
leadership things that a chiefdid, or all the leadership

(49:06):
things that a petty officer,first class did, and sometimes
employers don't understand thateither.
Right.
I mean, yeah, if I retired as acolonel, right, you're not
going to hire me as a vicepresident because I need to
understand your business.
But those leadership thingsthat I learned as a colonel or,

(49:27):
you know, a full bird captain orwhatever it is, applies, yeah,
those count, right, it applies.
Yeah, just like, if you're vicepresident, we're not going to
bring you in the military, youknow as the captain of a ship
right, but we're going to knowthat you have the skillset to
learn what we do and theneventually do that Sure, and I
think that sometimes that getslost in translation as well.
Is that something you work?

Speaker 3 (49:48):
on it does I've.
I've got several officers thatare, you know, retired officers.
Or you know I was an officer inthe military officers, um,
their mindset's different.
You know I was, I was enlisted.
Um, you know I never had an.
You know I had, yes, I had adegree when I came in.
Wasn't wasn't my mission.
Um, I didn't want to go throughall that, you know waivers,

(50:11):
going through this and that andthe other thing, and it was a
lot of fun.
I wanted to work.
My mindset is not 10,000 footlooking down, it's meat and
potatoes.
That's my background.
When I was a kid, that was meatand potatoes.
That's what I wanted to do.
That's what I wanted to do andcontinue doing.

(50:32):
But officers are different.
There's a different outlook, adifferent look on um, but
officers are different.
There there's a.
There's a difference um,different outlook, a different.
I think look on the world, youknow, and it's, it's a, it's a
10 000 over.
Oh, you know it's 10 000 footoverview.
You know they're again,generally, you know, in general,
um, you know good, bad,different there's, it's know,

(50:55):
it's just different.
Yeah, um, obviously dealt with alot of officers and you know,
in my years in the Navy, um,most are pretty decent.
I mean, I've had worse luckwith chiefs than I had with with
most of the officers that Iworked with.
Um, they're a different breed.
That's a different breed too,um, you know, but the the

(51:16):
translation for officers is alittle more in-depth than most
enlisted folks.
Enlisted folks here's a list.
Boom, here you go.
I think a lot of what officersdo.
It's a lot of putting togethera lot of theoretical information
that would go on that, on that,on those profiles, on that

(51:37):
resume, um, I don't think Iexplained that properly, but
that's well, I think so I served14 years enlisted in the.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
in my last seven years I was an officer and, um,
I think the difference, if Iboiled it down to my experience,
was that at the, when you're anofficer, you're at the
strategic level yes, and whenyou're enlisted, you're at the
execution level tactical, yeah,yep, so.
So if you were enlisted andthen an officer, a lot of those

(52:06):
strategic decisions you make aretempered by the fact that you
had to execute those at somepoint, exactly correct, whereas
if you were just an officer,your whole career, you don't
have have that knowledge of howthis is going to impact.
I won't say you don't.
A lot of them don't have theunderstanding of how this
impacts the boots on the ground.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
The officers who were previous enlisted, those were
the good ones.
Yeah, in my experience workingfor officers, those were the
ones they knew.
You know, in my experienceworking for um, you know,
working for officers, those,those were the ones you know.
They they knew you know,especially in recruiting.
I mean, recruiting is it's justa tough business, you know,
it's all there is.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
It's the toughest job you'll ever like.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Is what I, what I tell people If you liked it or
if there there's nothing inbetween, right, you either love
it or you hate it, that's true.
There's nothing, there's allright.
No, there's no.
Uh, there are no fence sitters.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's it's,they're, they're, they're polar
opposite.
Yeah, you know, you love it oryou hate it.
Um, you know, but thoseofficers, even if they never
served in a recruiting role,they, they understood, you know,

(53:08):
they understood that.
You know that that lansingstation, you know south, south
lansing, it's not, it's over bywal now, but that station, the
only Saturday we had off was thefirst Saturday of the month,
that's it.
We worked every other Saturday.
It was just that's what we did60 to 75, 80 hours a week.

(53:28):
That's what we did.
A lot of the guys that camefrom the fleet didn't realize
that, yeah, culture shock.
Didn't realize.
You know they're, they're,they're detailer and you can get
home and see people with yourfamily.
I can, I can get you, you know,I can you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, your folkslive in Traverse City.
I can get you to.

(53:49):
I can get you to Lansing.
I can get you to Lansing rightnow as a recruiter.
Okay, cool, that's, you knowthere's, there's.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
You're never going to go to Traverse City, though.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
You're, you're, you're not going to be in
Traverse City, it's, you knowit's full.
Yeah, Um, you know.
And then they sit down and theyrealize I'm working twice is
what I used to do in my old joband I don't understand anything.
I have to learn an entirely newjob, you know.
I have to learn an entire newway to live my life, you know,

(54:21):
and that didn't bode well formost people that came into
recruiting.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
And I you know, I think that's where the where
there's a I'm going to call it amistake is that.
You know, I came from the fleet.
I was a fire controlman, had noidea what I was getting into
when I became a recruiter, but Iloved it and I was good at it.
I'm not bragging on myself, butI was good at it.
I excelled at recruiting, Ithink because I loved it.
But a lot of guys, like yousaid, would come in and be like

(54:47):
holy crap one, I'm not good atthis, I suck, and there's no
amount of training you're goingto give that guy to make him
good, because he's just not goodat it Not a people person Right
.
We should give them the optionto go back to the fleet or go do
something else.
But we force them to stay inrecruiting and they don't belong
there.
And that's the only thing I'llsay about the military is like

(55:13):
once you're there, you're kindof stuck and hopefully it's a
fit.
Now I didn't see a lot ofpeople where whatever they did
wasn't a fit, because I thinkthey do a pretty good job of
fitting people with jobs thatmatch who they are.
But recruiting is a wholedifferent.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
It's beast when it comes to the opposite of that.
Yes, it is a station commander.
I ran the station in Lansingfrom four to nine 2004, 2009.
Um, I think I had five or sixrecruiters.
Um, I would say three of thoserecruiters were worth anything.

(55:48):
Yeah, one of those recruiterswas a negative in the office.
Um tried to get him reassignedseveral times.
Um it, it wasn't.
It wasn't an option.
It wasn't an option.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
It wasn't a possibility.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
It was an incumbent on you to make sure he was
successful, and how do I makehim if I've got myself two
recruiters that are successfuland one that is literally an
anchor in making our job moredifficult?
What do I do with this person?
You are the driver.
All you got to do do brother,don't worry about it take them

(56:25):
there and pick them up and thenjust give them one every month
and don't talk to them.
Don't talk to them.
All I need you to do is drivethese guys, drive them to the
motel, take them from MEPS andtake them home.
That's all you got to do.
For that.
You'll get one contract a monthevery month.
For that.
You'll get one contract a monthevery month.
My guys were successful.

(56:46):
He got his one contract, whichkept HQ off of his ass.
All my guys made gold.
Most months.
My guys made gold and I wasable to deal with that one issue
, you know.
And then you know you havemediocres.

(57:06):
You know people who were eh,they're okay, you know they can
at least you know get one mostmonths.
You get one contract.
So get one person in the Navy,get that one.
So it was a difficult it wasdifficult.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Just see, that's where real leadership comes in.
Right, if I'm not a leader, I'mjust going to try and force
that round peg into that squarehole every month and it's just
never going to fit.
But as a leader, you were likeokay, this guy has a skillset,
he can drive a car.
Sure, right, let's let himdrive a car.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
This is a diesel mechanic actually, but yeah, you
know what I mean, like drive acar.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
you can drive a car.
He can't talk to people and wedon't want him to do that, right
, but also we don't.
You know he's not goinganywhere, you know.
So as a leader, you saw, youwere able to kind of mix things
up and and get things done.
And the thing is he probablywasn't an anchor because he

(58:03):
wanted to be, or was he?

Speaker 3 (58:07):
He, he, I don't think that was his, his, his initial
Right, um, I think at the end hewas.
He was very frustrated.
Yeah, um, it was.
It was difficult from you know,from from a you know, from a
leadership standpoint.
My office wasn't successful ifI had a recruiter that didn't

(58:31):
put somebody in the Navy, ifeverybody put somebody in the
Navy, even if we don't make agoal, if everybody put somebody
in the Navy, we're not gettingin trouble.
We still have Saturday off.
Yeah, somebody in the Navy,we're not getting in trouble.
We still have Saturday off.
You know, and our, our bosses,you know, our chief is is, is on
somebody else's ass today.
Um, you know, because tomorrowis tomorrow and you haven't done
anything for me tomorrow yet.

(58:52):
Right Um so yeah, it was.
You know it's difficult.
It was difficult Um learningexperience.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
I get that.
So, um, so now you're workingum with operation job ready
veteran.
Can't say that enough, becauseI really appreciate the work
that you guys do.
Um, if someone is either freshout of the military and looking
for some help, or someone whomaybe has been out for a while
and is just kind ofering, um,how would they get in touch with

(59:21):
you?

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Website.
Okay, um, I, I, I've plasteredthe you know the mid Michigan
area with you know everybody Iknow, right, Um, my business
cards are out in town.
Okay, but I hang out at placeswhere I have, you know.
I hang out at places where Ihave clients.
I'm proud of what I do.

(59:45):
I tell everybody this and Idon't want people to take it the
wrong way.
I don't have a job, I just amdoing what I do.
I've been doing that for thelast know, I think over 18
months.
At this point, um, I'm gettinga paycheck for it.

(01:00:06):
Yeah, okay, you want to pay me?
Cool, um, so I mean it's, it's,it's not work, it's just I get
up.
You know, I know I've got, youknow I these certain things I
got to do.
You know for this, you know forthis person, or this person, or
my ex-wife, I did two coverletters for last week.
You know we still hang out, butanyway, um, that's all right,

(01:00:26):
you know, but she's army veteran, you know, works at uh, works
at the uh prison on Ionia, um,you know she's.
Yes, we still hang out, yes,we're still friends, we still
share custody of our dogs, um,but the bottom line is, you know
, it boils down to the fact thatshe's a veteran and she is,

(01:00:48):
she's building her career withthe state of Michigan and I
respect it and I respecteverybody that has went through
what we went through.
You know, whether it be youknow, whatever you know,
whatever you know, whatever thatveteran sitting across the
table for me has went through,we've, we've, we've been through
something similar.
Right, we all served, you know,and we don't have to break the

(01:01:09):
ice.
We just, you know, have a seatand you know even different
branches of service right.
You know, we just sit down andstart talking.
You know I'm, I'm not, I'm nota threat.
I'm not asking you for money,I'm not asking employers for
money, it's, it's there, there's, there's no cost, there's no
cost, right which we're, we're,we're funded, we're funded by
you know, we're funded by grants.

(01:01:31):
You know, and and and you know,all of all this, this, this
opportunity, has clicked everysingle box that I made when I
was retiring, Even even a coupleof boxes that I didn't know I
was that I, that I had.

(01:01:53):
Yeah, um, you know it's I, I.
I don't have to drive anywhereif I don't want to.
You know I don't have to driveanywhere if I don't want to.
My office is on the bottomfloor of my house as well.
I've got everything I need todo my job, which is a phone and

(01:02:17):
a computer, and me, my mouth.
I get up in the morning and sayhow many people I got today.
I go through and you know, lookat my notes, or you know, if
I've got to call people, if Igot, you know, make that initial
conversation, that initialphone call.
You know, try and figure outwhat their goals are.
You know I'm going to help youget there.
I'm going to give youeverything.
I'm going to give youeverything that I have to help

(01:02:38):
you are, you know, a 21 year oldkid just out of you know, just
out of your first you know fouryear tour, or two year tour, or
how many years you did, orretired, been out of the Navy,
been out of the military.
For you know, I've, I've got acouple of clients who are over
70.
Yeah, you know they're, theydon't need to work.
You know one guy's working at,I think, ryder youder, doing

(01:03:01):
just warehousing stuff.
Why are you working?
I sit around the house.
Yeah.
Okay, okay, I'll help you, I'llhelp.
You know, that's what I do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
So you, you know I love your story because it's a
little bit different from moststories.
Like most stories, it's schoolmilitary.
You know it's this progressionand you kind of did it a little
bit differently, but you've donea lot really.
I mean, you served your country, you brought people into the

(01:03:36):
Navy, not only serving themilitary, but also serving those
folks because they're going toget something from all of that.
And you're continuing to dothat in what you do today, even
after retirement from the Navy.
Is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you
wanted to cover?

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Oh, the military is a fantastic option.
It is a fantastic option, um,you can pick a branch and do
pretty much exactly what youwant to do, whatever that may be
.
You know you want to be a.
You know you want to be amarine cool, be a marine.
You want to be in the navy cool, what do you want to do?

(01:04:14):
You want to be in there forcool, what do you want to do?
You'll be in depo long time, um, um, you know, coast Guard.
Good luck finding a recruiter,bro.
Uh, you know, so it you know it.
It it's an option, just like thetrades, just like college.
You, you've got options.
You make the choice to gomilitary.

(01:04:37):
I mean, we've already talkedabout it You're not going to get
fired unless you do somethingstupid and do your job, if done
properly.
We can, we can translateeverything that you did in the
military to civilian to make itlook just like a job.
Yeah, you know, because that'swhat it is.
It's it that it was just a job,right, you know, look at it.
You know as as your first job,do you?

(01:05:03):
You know, 18 year old kid, letme see your resume.
My, what?
That's what the Navy is goingto give to you.
Or you know whatever branch youknow, you, you go into the Navy
as a, you know, a, cbht,haltech or not, not?
Not, haltech?
Um, you say Haltech?
Yeah, sheet metal guy, right?
Well, who does sheet metal inthe civilian world?
Plumbers, right.

(01:05:24):
Hvac guys.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Auto industry Auto industry People who build
boilers, people who build waterheaters, people yeah, it's on
and on and on.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
You know again, my career is career.
You know it's employment.
That's what I do.
That's what I've done my entireprofessional career.
I live it.
That's just me.
Every time I have somebody comeinto the house, a worker the

(01:05:54):
last one was a plumbing guy, akid, maybe 23, 24, 25.
Hey, how'd you get into this?
Usually it's are you anapprentice or are you still an
apprenticeship?
This kid, yeah, I've got threeyears done.
I've got one more year to go.
He was 23.

(01:06:20):
I always again preface it.
You know, in the civilian worldwe don't talk about.
You know wages, but I'm curious, 23 years old, you didn't go to
college, nope, how much youmaking?
How much you making?
It's usually upwards of.
You know apprenticeship 25, 30,25, 35 bucks an hour.
You know, usually somewhere inthere, 23 years old, no college,

(01:06:42):
you're one year away frommaking 60, 70, 80 bucks an hour,
right In a union job.
In a union job, you're, you're,you have, you have a funded
pension.
Yeah, let me tell you that's awonderful thing.
Yes, it is.
You know, listen to me, it is awonderful thing.
You know it too.
Yeah absolutely.

(01:07:02):
I open my eyes in the morningand I get a paycheck.
Just because I open my eyes inthe morning, it's because you
breathe them, it's liberating.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah, I want to piggyback on the apprenticeship
thing too.
So here's something that a lotof people don't know.
Let's say you go into the Navyon a two year hitch, right, you
get out, you get into anapprenticeship.
Guess what?
You get GI bill money for beingan apprenticeship.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Yes, you do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
So, on top of the 30 bucks an hour you're making,
you're going to get BAH for like1500 bucks a month, right,
right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
So, and if you do it the right way and you don't,
you're not.
You know, I'm not.
You know, if you're one ofthose people who I'm not going
to college, yeah, not my thing,cool, I, I love it.
You're, you're, you're, you,are you?
You do you give that gi bill toyour kids?
yeah, that's available to you,you if, if you do it right.

(01:08:02):
Each branch has different rulesand regulations.
When I married my second wife,she had a stepdaughter who she
had a daughter, my stepdaughter.
That's one of the first thingsI did.
Hey, I already have a degree.
I already went and got anotherdegree, maybe paid 400%
Bachelor's degree in psychology,3.94 GPA.

(01:08:23):
Never paid a cent, not one cent.
Paid for tuition assistance,all the books were covered and I
walk out with a degree.
And I did it all at MAPS.
We had to be there.
We didn't have eight hoursworth of work every day but we
couldn't leave.
It was cool.
That's a good idea.
We went Go to school.
That's a good idea.
Why not go to school.
You know they'd be paid forthat A hundred percent Right,

(01:08:50):
and they will do it for the mostpart, for anybody.
Your duty station, yourdeployment schedule, it all
affects it, right, but it'sthere.
It's available to you Forty,forty, five hundred bucks a year
to go to school.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Any school, yeah, and depending on what program you
fall under and all that thing,you can use your GI Bill if you
want to while you're on activeduty.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
I don't ever suggest doing that because it's a waste
of a lot of money that'savailable, but it's there, right
.
I don't the entitlement.
I hate that word.

(01:09:29):
I hate it, especially intoday's world.
Right, everybody's in thinksthat they're entitled.
Entitled to what A good job.
A house, you know, the Americandream.
I'm entitled to the Americandream.
Shut up.
You're not entitled to anythingexcept death and paying taxes.
Bro, sit down.
Shut up.

(01:09:49):
Now we have a conversation tohave.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Join the military and you do have entitlements just
for doing your job.
Well, here's what I would argueis those VA programs and the GI
bill, those are notentitlements, those are things
that you earned for havingserved your country right yes.
This isn't something you'rejust giving me to give me.
That's true, I earned it.
That is true.
I served my.
However long, I get X number ofdollars for my GI bill.

(01:10:18):
I got injured, I can't functionproperly.
I get my VA benefits.
Those aren't entitlements.
Those are things that I earnedas a, as a veteran, and you
earned them too.
I agree, I agree, and I thinkthat's where that's where the
differentiation has to happen.
Right, those things are notentitlements.
You take that off the tablebecause those are earned

(01:10:39):
benefits, right, and that'sthat's one of the things too,
like when we oh, you're going toget me going, but when we, when
we go to war, um, congressalways, like, calculates the
cost of going to that war, sure,and sending people over there.
What they don't ever calculateis the cost of bringing them
home, yes, and once they getback right, them home, yes, and
once they get back right.

(01:10:59):
So all of a sudden, now that'san entitlement.
Well, no, those people got hurtor or earned those benefits or
whatever.
It was doing what you askedthem to do, right.
So you know, I really strugglewith when people, when people
talk about those as entitlementsand want to do something with
them because, look, we wrote ablank check when we signed up I

(01:11:19):
agree right, and that's whetheryou are a combat veteran or
whether you're a non-combatveteran, whether you're a
recruiter, every single job inthe military helps the military
be successful.
I agree, and that's why I alwaysask people if they served,
because many times, if you askthem if they're a veteran,
they're hesitant to say yes, I'ma veteran If they didn't serve

(01:11:41):
in combat, or they only servefor two years or whatever, it is
Sure.
So I always ask did you serve?
Because to me that's that's theimportant thing.
Did you, if you serve?
Did you serve for one year?
Did you serve for 40 years?
Whatever it is, everyone servedand it made our country
successful, no matter what yourjob.
I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
I say that's a good idea because I usually ask are
you a veteran Right?
And I like did you serve better?
It's different, yeah.
Because, I've talked to a lotof people.
You know that.
Because our requirements to bea veteran for Operation Job
Ready Veterans less than whatthe state of Michigan requires,

(01:12:22):
I don't need to talk about them,but I can work with a lot of
folks that the job folks at thestate of Michigan can't work.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
It's not in their wheelhouse, they've got their
left and right limits and theyhave to stay with them.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Correct.
It's their rules.
I can pick up some folks thatthey can't help yeah, and I can
send folks their way that theycan help more than what I can
help them.
It's case management.
I look at it as case management.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Well, I think you probably learned some of that
recruiting too right.
Like I can't bring you in, butI know that that branch is
looking for what you got rightRecruiting my, my, this, I, I
want to leave this for, you know, possible recruiters in the
future, right?

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Um, a couple of things.
Number one don't let your bossruin your career.
Right, number one, because,worst case scenario, you guys
are together three years,probably less.
You know overlapping,overlapping.
You know duty stations.
Don't ever let your boss ruinyour career.

(01:13:30):
Number two this is probably themost important thing and it it
applies to me today as wellForget, forget quota, forget
that word, forget the numbers,forget quota, forget that word,
forget the numbers.
Just forget them, becausethey're there.
They're never going away.
You can't make that change.
You can't change it.
Help the people.

(01:13:52):
Why is that kid in your office?
Why is that kid in your officetoday?
Yeah, well, because mom and dadare going to kick him out when
he turns 18 and he graduates.
Awesome, mom and dad.
Sweet, you know good job, heneeds a job.
You might not know he needs ajob.
He needs to understand he needsa job.

(01:14:17):
Help the person.
Right Numbers will come.
Yeah, you know come.
Every recruiter that ever workedfor me, every person in
recruiting that I've ever workedwith in officer recruiting,
officer recruiting.
I get officers, brand newofficers, coming into the office
.
I was not a station commanderfor officer recruiting, I was
just there.
I have chiefs come in.

(01:14:38):
I have officers come in to dothat job.
I'm a career recruiter.
I know how to do this job.
It was my job to teach folkshow to do this job.
You got to.
Let me.
Don't be an officer today.
Don't be a chief today, be astudent.

(01:14:58):
Let me show you how to do this.
Is it the right way?
It works for me, though?
It's worked for me for you know, these years.
You know so you got to forgetabout the numbers.
You know, officer recruiting alot different, but you know,
enlisted recruiting it's alwaysnumbers.
Right, you know, forget aboutthat stuff.
Just help somebody you know.

(01:15:20):
And on the flip side, you know,I'm sorry, go back as a
recruiter.
I took that to heart reallyearly in my career because the
numbers were killing me.
The numbers were killing me.
I always woke up, I got to make.
Well, I got to.
If you stop worrying about thatand worry about the person that
you're talking to, why is thatperson there?

(01:15:42):
Obviously, you know, like youdon't go to a car lot without
needing or wanting to buy a newcar, right, that's, it's just a
given For the most part,everybody that comes into the
office needed something, youknow.
And if I couldn't help them forfor whatever reason, you know
you still need something.

(01:16:02):
You know what?
I think the army can help youhere.
Yeah, I know a guy.
You know, I know a guy, come on, let's go, I'll introduce you.
Or you know, hey, the MarineCorps.
Marine Corps is, it's different.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
You know the Marines, you want to be a Marine right,
it's, it's not, it's not thesame, and you and I Right it's,
it's what they want.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
It's different.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Yeah, um, yeah, you know you know, I think I think
recruiting is a lot back in myyounger days.
This is how I look atrecruiting.
It's a lot like when you go tothe bar right, you go to the bar
, and if you're desperate to gohome with someone that night,
you'll look like an idiot.
You see, they can just smellthe desperation on you, right?

(01:16:42):
Sure.
So if you're in recruiting andyou haven't made your numbers
and that's what you'reconcentrating on that kid
sitting in that chair knows thatyou don't have his best
interest at heart.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
right, you're just trying to make a number right
and they know it, and that'swhere a lot of recruiters got in
trouble too yeah they cut, theycut corners.
You know I've, you know I'vehad asthma.
You know I don't have asthma,but you know that's, that's one
of the big ones.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
I had Use an inhaler.
I have asthma yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Oh, you stop using your inhaler?
What when you're like less than12, right, you stopped using
your.
You know you stopped when youwere 12.
Moving on, yeah, Next question.
Yeah, you know that's whererecruiters get in trouble.
You know they're, they're,they're hiding stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
You got to know when to move on, you know you you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
They have to be ready , willing and able.
Yeah, all three at the sametime.
Or you have to be able to talkthem into something one of those
three, because they're nevergoing to boot camp if they're
not ready willing and able.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
There are some people who you just have to say I'm
sorry, you're not qualified, andI think that people have
trouble.
You've gone all this way, you,you got this guy in the office
like you're one person away andand they're just not qualified.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
And the thing is again my, my, my first, my first
recruiter, um, or my recruiter,it's like who was my first boss
?
Um, it's like it's you missgoal.
You're going to get your weenieslapped Right.
You might have to do some extramilitary training.

(01:18:31):
You might have to come in onSaturday.
You tell this guy not to talkabout something in his medical
record.
You get caught, you're out.
Yeah, that's it.
You're either out of the Navyor you're out of recruiting.
You're going to be in a badposition regardless.
I've seen it happen multipletimes.
It's not worth it.
You know it's a career, even ifyou're not going to make it a

(01:18:52):
career, it's what you're doing.
You know you get kicked outafter five years.
You have this resume and yougot a bad conduct, discharge or
dishonorable or something.
What happened in those fiveyears?
You have this resume and yougot a bad conduct, discharge or
dishonorable or something.
What happened in those fiveyears?

(01:19:13):
You only got two choices hideit, talk about it or lie about
it.
Right, you know can, can the?
You know if, looking at a DDtwo, 14, if that's a requirement
for the job, you know, doesthat person, that's person, does
that civilian know how to readthat DD 214?
You know, do they know it was abad conduct discharge, right,
you can give them the differentcopy.
Give them copy one.
It's not on there, it just saysyou served.

(01:19:34):
I don't want that copy man.
I need copy four.
You know, I need to look atthat RE code.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Right, I need copy four.
You know I need to look at thatRE code, right, you know, cause
I know those RE codes.
Or I need to see your last eval, dd two, 14, because I have
like four DD two 14s.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Right, yeah, I've got a two 14 and a 15.
So they had a bunch of myawards messy, yeah, so but yeah
it's cause I got out and went.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
grab the one that doesn't say it Exactly and maybe
I'll get away with it.
But yeah, so educatingemployers as to what to look for
.
You know, but if someone'sdoing the right thing, you don't
have to ever do that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
Exactly, Correct 23 years, you're still sitting here
today.
I still get a pension.
I still have excellent evals,most excellent.
If you miss goal and you justget that missed goal eval, it's

(01:20:36):
hard to explain it.
It's fun.
It's fun to see that eval comeback and like I didn't write any
of that, but that is reallymediocre.
It's a mediocre.
You know it was meant to bethat way, right, we know what
this means, we.
We know that you were a shitbagthat month or that that that
particular.
That's right, um, but yeah,it's just, I don't know yeah it

(01:20:58):
is what it is so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
We've talked about a lot of stuff um drinking from a
hose yes um, drinking from,drinking from the fire hydrant,
um, all those things and um, youknow you've already lived quite
an interesting life, done a lotof stuff, um, but I think, as
we kind of wrap up ourconversation today, um, you've
said a couple of things already,but I really want to put a

(01:21:20):
finer point on it, and that isyou know, if someone is
listening to a hundred yearsfrom now and neither one of us
are here and they're listeningto your story, listening about
your life, the things thatyou've done, what message would
you leave for that person?
Like, what do you want them totake away from all of this?

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
the military has provided a life that I've always
wanted today, always.
You know, I don't have to work.
I wake up in the morning and Iget paid.
Just because I opened my eyestoday, I've got a dream house.
My home is exactly.
I mean, you know, with a VAloan, it's.

(01:22:10):
I walked in.
I'm like, yep, this is it righthere.
You know, just make the offer,I'm done, we're not going
anywhere else.
Yeah, we're done.
Um, you know my resume.
You know I mean, again, incareer services, my resume is
you know, I, I am.
You know the resume.

(01:22:31):
You know, and that's it's, it'ssolid.
You know, I don't hope I neverhave to use it again, but if I
need to, it's solid, right, um,I've, I've, I.
I used the Navy and I goteverything out of it that I
wanted.
Navy got everything out of methat they needed and they're
moving on to the next.
You know my time in the Navywas 23 years, the best 23 years
of my life.

(01:22:51):
My stepdaughter got a freeeducation with my GI bill, no
student loans.
She's a nurse and she makesmore hourly rate than her mother
and myself combined.
Without overtime.
She makes more.
She's 23 years old.
She's a nurse at U of Memergency room.

(01:23:16):
You know what?
Yeah, you know I.
I don't have a student loan forher.
She doesn't have student loans.
What's in the news?
Everybody's got student loans,thousands and thousands of
dollars.
They're never going to pay themoff, right?
You know how many articles do Iread?
You know student loan 75 yearsold and still paying the student

(01:23:37):
loan from when they were 18.
She has nothing except a goodjob and she loves it.
I had a good job, I loved it.
I have a good job now, notreally a job, it's just what I
do.
Yeah, you know, but all of theyears of my entire professional
career, all of the years I'veheard do something you love,

(01:23:59):
you'll never work a day in yourlife.
Do something you love, you'llnever work a day in your life.
I was 54 years old before Irealized what that really meant,
and I'm living it every day,every day that's awesome.
I'm not working, I'm just doingwhat I do yeah, alright.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Well, thanks for doing what you do this afternoon
, talking with me and sharingyour story.
I really appreciate it cool,cool.

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