November 24, 2025 • 79 mins
A childhood reshaped by an expressway, a career born from a newspaper ad, and a camera that followed him from training fields to a war zone—Glenn Wilkewitz’s story is a masterclass in showing up when it counts. We sit down with Glenn to chart his path from Detroit neighborhoods and ROTC hallways to 30 years in the Air National Guard, where he learned to love both the hum of computers and the craft of photography.
You’ll hear how a young bagger turned data operator rode the evolution from punch cards and mag tapes to mainframes and 286 desktops, then retrained again to keep pace with early networks and hospital IT. Glenn explains how a remote job entry terminal made him an early “remote worker,” why Pensacola’s photography school became a turning point at 42, and how an eye for images helped him navigate base politics and tell the stories that would otherwise stay in a drawer.
The centerpiece is his decision to volunteer for Iraq at 52. Glenn breaks down the unseen work of video exploitation: pulling 15-second clips from F-16 tapes, labeling mission data, and pushing files over secure networks to shape decisions on the ground—all while rockets and mortars bracketed his days. He balances those memories with the moment he came home, the quiet truths about prestige after the uniform comes off, and the purpose he found serving the Michigan Flight Museum—keeping vintage aircraft flying and communities connected with a few well-aimed antennas.
Threaded through are the personal anchors: his wife Debbie’s grit and grace, a faith journey that began in a bunker, and two daughters who turned skills into futures—one teaching STEM, the other helping touch the moon with Orion and Artemis. Glenn leaves listeners with practical, generous advice: build a marketable skill during the narrow window, stay curious, and do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do.
If this story moved you, tap follow, share it with a friend who loves military history or tech, and leave a short review with your favorite takeaway. Your note helps more people find conversations that matter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Today is Monday, November 24th, 2025.
We're talking with GlennWilkowitz, who served in the Air
National Guard.
So good morning, Glenn.
Yeah.
And uh thank you for sittingwith me through all the
technical difficulties thatwe've had this morning.
No problem.
But I think we're on the rightpath at this point.
Okay.
Great.
So we'll start out withsomething really simple.
(01:20):
When and where were you born?
SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
I was born in Detroit.
At the uh at Salvation Uh ArmyHospital that was there.
Um I lived in Detroit about 24years.
Okay.
What year were you born?
September 10th, 1951.
(01:42):
1951.
So tell me about growing up inDetroit.
What was that like for you?
Well, my neighborhood was theusual kind back then.
Kids down the street you playedwith, you did things together,
um, go golfing occasionally withthem.
Uh park was down the street, uhnear Gomper's uh uh elementary
(02:11):
school, and the park there iswhere we would play softball or
hardball, uh do skating when thewinter was there and such.
Um what basically happened to myneighborhood is the expressway
came through.
(02:31):
Oh, that'll change things.
That was on in schoolcraft andBurt Road area, just wiped them
out.
SPEAKER_03 (02:42):
Um so most of my friends went away.
SPEAKER_04 (02:48):
They moved, and so there wasn't that much activity
after that.
Uh-huh.
Now, do you have brothers andsisters?
I have one brother, name isMark, and right now he lives in
Tennessee uh and such.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Now, are you very close in age?
SPEAKER_04 (03:09):
Uh he is just turned 70, so he's he's about three
years behind me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Okay.
All right.
So not not quite close enough inage to be best pals then when
your friends all moved away.
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Or or did you or did you Well, my brother uh left,
moved out when he was 18.
Okay.
As soon as high school camearound, he's gone.
Yeah.
I hung around till I was 24before I finally moved out.
Okay.
Now tell me a little bit aboutyour parents.
Uh what did your what did yourparents do?
(03:42):
Well, my dad uh joined the Navywhen he was 17.
Uh he didn't um really like theway he had to go in, but he uh
ended up uh going to boot campin uh Chicago at the induction
(04:03):
center there.
My mom uh lived on a farm withher twelve brothers and sisters
in Bonertown, Tennessee.
And uh when she turned about 17or 18 in during the war, uh she
(04:25):
too left the farm and went downto Maxwell Airbase in uh
Alabama.
Yeah, Alabama, where sherepaired bullet holes on
airplanes.
Oh.
And such.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
So she was kind of a Rosie the Riveter then.
SPEAKER_04 (04:45):
In a way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She uh never talked about otherthan to say there were a lot of
cute pilots down there.
And pretty much with my dad aswell.
He uh served on a cargo ship,kind of like in the movie of Mr.
Roberts.
(05:05):
Okay, uh except his was anammunition ship ammo.
SPEAKER_03 (05:13):
But I have um map at home that shows all his
journeys.
He was a plank, means that hewas the first crew to serve on
the ship.
And basically they only had twobattle stars because they would
(05:36):
be floating around in areaswhere uh the Navy Army had
already taken over the island.
So they didn't see much actionthere.
Um he never graduated highschool.
And she and my mom they met in abowling app.
(06:02):
Got hooked up that way.
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
All kinds of places to meet people, isn't there?
SPEAKER_04 (06:07):
Yeah.
As a side note, how I met mywife.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Oh well, it seems to have worked out, yeah.
Yeah.
So your uh your parents met, andthen um how did they end up in
Michigan?
SPEAKER_04 (06:21):
Um, well, that's a bit of a story, I think.
Originally, they were uh livingin clear Winter Haven, Winter
Haven, Florida, and this was atthe start of the Korean War, and
he got a note from his mom aboutwanting the Navy to him to
(06:47):
report in.
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
I think it just later he just mama wanted her
his her boy back in Michigan.
So they came back to Michigan,they bought a house, Gielding
Street, school craft area.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
And the rest is history, as they say.
SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
So talk to me a little bit about school.
And I know you uh lived at homeuntil you're 24, but so you
graduated high school?
SPEAKER_04 (07:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Um I was rather unremarkable and I did that time
I was suffering from allergiesand asthma.
I never really participated insports.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (07:39):
So I joined ROTC and such, which I kind of liked and
such, because we had activitieswe would do, things like with
plays, that among those.
SPEAKER_03 (07:56):
Okay.
So graduated when I wasseventeen.
Mom and dad never really harpedabout going to college or
anything.
So I kind of floated around, youmight um so that was my high
(08:18):
school.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
You uh had joined the uh ROC.
RCC.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:22):
You know, we did the usual thing.
SPEAKER_03 (08:25):
Uh had a rifle range, the basement of Redford
High School, and we havemarching competition against
other trade schools and such.
So that was extra careercurricular activity.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Now, do you think that that uh kind of fired up
your interest in being in themilitary?
SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
Uh actually it was it's a little weird.
SPEAKER_03 (08:53):
We would always go visit my aunt at Okie in the
north, one of the suburbs ofright.
And we would with my dad anduncle, we would c occasionally
(09:15):
watch watch Walter Conk 20thcentury.
It was all war movies or news.
Right.
And I wasn't so much curiousabout that.
I was just thinking about thepeople who were doing that,
(09:37):
filming it.
And I thought that was that wasso um, anyways, I had interest
in photography then negative.
Right.
And um so, anyways, uh after I Idid work locally at one of the
(10:07):
DNC markets.
Uh-huh.
That was blocks with WalterStrom in it.
And I was just sort of aninnocent guy packing bags.
Right.
And I didn't know at the timethat Walters was well known
(10:27):
about his meeting good butchery.
And apparently what they calledback then, this was 1968, what
they call the production linefor Bedwick, they would come
there.
Oh.
I would pack it.
(10:48):
I don't know who the hell youwere, because I never watched
hockey.
Right.
Wasn't your thing.
It wasn't my thing.
So that was probably one of thehighlights.
Uh-huh.
After that, I started working inHudson's apartment in Northland.
(11:13):
And the guy there that would bein charge of me acted as if I
was gonna work there for 30years, like, yeah.
So but basically all I would dois break down.
And I had a few incidents whereI got chided for after three
(11:39):
months I got fired.
Oh, well.
So so much for that career.
SPEAKER_04 (11:45):
So I um collected on the for a while.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
I did have other part-time jobs that I did.
One of them was deliveringflowers.
That was just a couple change.
And another time I workedpart-time for Sears that was
(12:11):
bonia that.
Then one day I was lookingthrough the paper um and they
had an ad for computer training.
SPEAKER_04 (12:27):
So um I had money saved, went to it.
I did couldn't afford theprogramming.
SPEAKER_03 (12:36):
So I just learned l operations Honeywell computer
and such.
So I started looking for jobsafter I graduated.
I got one at what's calledPlymouth where they had the old
(12:58):
um TV gun factory.
Oh, okay.
Um my teacher wasn't that greatat showing me how still work.
I got released fired and such.
(13:18):
But I did end up with anotherjob on Greenfield Road and
Street Call of the Data.
Basically their main thing wasprinting out paper coupons with
Paul purchased new cars.
(13:40):
Okay.
Right.
They still do it.
Uh huh.
Other companies.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (13:49):
So I would be uh worked in data control, got in
because I wanted to be an opera.
SPEAKER_03 (13:56):
So they had an opening on the midnight as a
printer operator, print out 10,12 boxes of stuff, then go over
to the mail room and uh make along story short, eventually got
(14:17):
on afternoons, then on days, andthey had a computer operator
thing open there.
So I went started trainingthere.
Unbeknownst to me, there wasthis union thing going on where
the warehouse joined the teamand all of the operators grew in
(14:45):
with them.
So the work rule used to be Icould if I was called in like I
did on it on Saturday, I couldwork four hours because I had
done it before to get eight.
Right.
Because it was Saturday calledin.
Well apparently somewhere theyuh changed the rules, and I
(15:10):
ended up being fired for falsifyfalsifying my time card.
I'm out of working still livingat home.
And leading up to joining theinternational guard for that,
(15:31):
Vietnam, I had a pretty gooddraft.
Yeah.
But unbeknownst to me, my momtalked to my allergy.
He submitted the letter to thedraft.
They labeled me 4F.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
So mom did not want her boy going off to basically
moms have a way of doing thatsometimes.
SPEAKER_04 (15:58):
This ties in later when I went there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:01):
So, anyways, uh, I didn't know all that.
So I was uh at Cennial Library,Dearborn, Ford City.
SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
And I picked up a uh postcard saying, join the guard,
build it out.
They uh ran me through the ASVABtest that you have to do.
Yep.
And to make sure it's into theair.
(16:31):
Somebody will take a differentscore.
So, anyways, I passed all that.
Um and I think I called my mom.
Well, my told my parents, hey,going to the airport, give me a
ride.
Because I joined.
Yeah.
(16:52):
Raised the right hand, all thatgood stuff.
So I was in boot camp uh sixweeks.
Yeah, down in uh Texas, right?
Uh Lackland Air Force.
Uh-huh.
The only one where all the AirForce people go to.
(17:13):
And then after graduating, umwent up to Wichita Falls Airbase
there, and went learned the B3500 Burroughs computers.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
Wow.
So this is what, 1975?
SPEAKER_04 (17:35):
Yes, this is 1975.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
So computers haven't quitearen't quite what we have today,
that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
I'm I as I explained to one of our volunteers here,
I'm a I'm a fossil.
SPEAKER_03 (17:52):
Because I started out practically at the beginning
of it.
So I graduated from there.
And anything else?
No more.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Well, no, I mean we can continue talking.
Yeah, we can continue through.
SPEAKER_04 (18:11):
So as a result of all that uh education, I got a
job at St.
SPEAKER_03 (18:19):
Joe's Mercy Hospital.
And uh I was there 37 years.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
So you finally figured out how not to get
fired.
SPEAKER_04 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, basically.
Yeah.
Know your stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Yeah.
So so let's talk a little bitmore about your time in the
military.
So you signed up to work in thein data systems then for the Air
Force.
SPEAKER_04 (18:42):
Of course, what they trained me on, we they didn't
have it, the base.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (18:46):
We had something called RJ.
And that's remote job entryterminal.
Basically, it was a typewriter.
You'd load the program on apaper tape.
SPEAKER_03 (19:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:01):
And they would then transmit their information up to
Niagara National Guard in NewYork.
It would process there and sendit back to us and print it out
on green bar paper.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
So you were one of the original remote remote
workers, then really.
SPEAKER_04 (19:23):
Basically, there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
And what we did locally there is we one of the
people in our unit knew Fortran.
SPEAKER_03 (19:36):
So he wrote a program so that uh at the
theater we'd have roll call.
SPEAKER_04 (19:46):
And everybody had to drop their little bit of paper
in a bag, and then we would getit and check off who was there.
SPEAKER_03 (19:55):
Mm-hmm.
Print out local program and thengive it to whoever makes
personal.
unknown (20:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (20:05):
Like that.
Now, how long were you there?
30 years.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Well, in in but you were, I mean, in Wichita Falls.
SPEAKER_04 (20:15):
No.
Oh, Wichita Falls.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:17):
That was two months of training.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Okay.
And then after that it was justregular National Guard, right?
SPEAKER_04 (20:24):
Yes, after that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
And then so was Selfridge where you went or was
Selfridge.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (20:31):
And so back in those days, we were like a foreign
body when we did our drill.
So couldn't go to the liquorstore.
The only time we could go if wewere on two weeks.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
So for a long time though, in the National Guard,
like during that period, therewasn't a lot.
SPEAKER_04 (21:02):
It was really one week in the we would we would be
training mostly.
SPEAKER_03 (21:08):
It's was mostly your ancillary job.
Right.
And such.
SPEAKER_04 (21:14):
So our basic uh duty for the 191st, then, was
defending the northern tier.
SPEAKER_03 (21:25):
The Russian bombers.
F-106.
So we would practice sheltermaking.
And we would pretend we're in ashelter.
We'd be in the basement.
SPEAKER_04 (21:40):
We'd have all the imaginary decontaminants.
SPEAKER_03 (21:48):
Because you'd be outside, have to take your boots
off, your uniform, and put in aclosable bag.
SPEAKER_04 (21:57):
So not taking your clothes off during practice.
Right.
But we were simulating it,certainly.
Simulating.
That would be usually on aSunday, we do it half the day.
So bring up and such.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
My I was and all that.
That would it went on for abouttill the Soviets play.
Right.
Um, the other thing we would do,we would uh deploy for two
(22:32):
weeks, usually in February downto Florida.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Wow, that sounds really rough.
SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
We'd go there, and I I I was real good now at
operating IBM 3040.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
So you've moved up into into different so you've
really watched the progressionof I mean, back when they had
like punch cards, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:58):
Yes, all the way through Polarith cards, yeah,
tapes, mag tape, paper tape, andsuch.
SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
Yeah.
And that's I could talk at thatfor a but that's so but you've
seen that like it's I've seenthe evolution.
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (23:15):
And I keep up.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah.
Because I don't want the No, youdon't want to be the guy still
doing DOS programming wheneveryone else is using point
one.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:26):
So um I would basically sit there while the
other Air Force guys.
SPEAKER_03 (23:35):
Maybe I get a little bit like go hang the teeth.
Right.
Right.
And so um I did that till uh Ihad a career change in the 90s,
late late 80s.
(23:55):
Okay.
As an admin.
Oh.
And we would uh train people oncomputer using their gosh awful
software called enable.
SPEAKER_04 (24:10):
And they would use laserdisks.
SPEAKER_01 (24:13):
And this was like the the old green CRT machines,
is that what you were using forthe time?
SPEAKER_04 (24:19):
In a way, yes, they were green.
SPEAKER_03 (24:22):
But you know, we had the uh what we call the 286
processor.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
That was the stuff, right?
SPEAKER_04 (24:31):
That was That was high end then.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
So I want to stop for just a second.
So at the same time you're doingthis in the military, you're
working for the hospital system,and you're seeing the same
evolution there, aren't you?
SPEAKER_04 (24:42):
Yeah, a little bit faster.
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, but yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_04 (24:46):
Um the thing is where I worked at uh they were
gonna move, we were up to thelatest version of mainframe
computing, big iron.
Yeah, they called it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
That's where you had rooms full of computing
equipment, right?
SPEAKER_04 (25:04):
So we were still not connected to the outside world
yet.
SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
Mm-hmm.
Were later on.
But um higher up because westarted to incorporate my
hospital.
And before that, I could get allmy work done at two o'clock.
I worked afternoons the most.
(25:31):
Uh-huh.
And it'd be all done by eighto'clock because nobody had
hardwire connection.
That l changed later on when webecome a twenty-four-hour.
Right.
So, anyways, the powers to bedecided to move the mainframe
(25:53):
from here in Ipsy to MountClemens.
So they said, Glenn, you couldhave a go with the mainframe and
drive an hour and fifteenminutes every day, or you can
learn something.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
Is that a hard choice?
SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
Uh no.
It took a it was a though.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
But at that time, I said, okay.
So started out learning IBM8088, two floppy disks, green
monitor, even some Apple IIcomputers for PBI, brain
function, coordination.
SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
Okay.
And they had something of anetwork there, but it was mostly
word processing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
So I'm just curious.
So did that career change takeplace right around the same time
you went to work admin in theguard?
Were those fairly closetogether?
SPEAKER_04 (27:02):
Yeah, pretty close.
SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Okay.
I was just trying to picture howthis was going for you.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
So when I was in the guard or also at the hospital,
um, I developed my interest inphotography.
Okay.
This was um about nineteenninety, bring my camera to all
film back then.
Right.
(27:27):
And we so my I think it was '92,my first sergeant Gary Wright uh
decided, okay, there's anopening.
(27:58):
And I had book learning I had todo with one of the people with
us I became friends with, he wasa AP photographer.
And so um but the Air Forcechanged the where we had to go
(28:22):
to school.
No more buckle.
So I had my paperwork in to goto school.
So did my friend, but why doeshe need to go to school?
So he got the school, right?
But he wasn't gonna go.
And he said, Okay, then here yougo.
(28:46):
So this was in 1993.
Okay.
And in August I shipped out toPetsacola Naval Air Station
March was in August.
And it was a seven-month pool.
(29:07):
All from the beginning.
My first day there, I came in,sat down, the other students
came in.
SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
They all asked, I'm 42 now.
Right.
You you know spring chicken.
And they asked me, Are you yourare you RT?
I thought no.
So we had it was a group oftowards the end of eight people.
SPEAKER_03 (29:39):
Uh-huh.
We had one person that got setback.
It was a Marine.
And he thought it was moreinteresting seeing his
girlfriend in Jackson, Florida,than being at school.
SPEAKER_01 (29:57):
Well, he's probably a young Marine, so who could
blame him, right?
SPEAKER_04 (30:00):
So eventually he I guess the Navy calls became a a
chain dragger.
SPEAKER_03 (30:09):
Mm-hmm.
Some physical work.
But um all this time my wife ispregnant with her second child,
Christmas.
So the doctor had set a date forher birth in October, and I flew
(30:33):
down because I had uh I think itwas holiday.
No, just for the weekend.
SPEAKER_04 (30:42):
So I was going to be there Friday, Saturday, and
Sunday.
So the doctor screwed up.
SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
And I had to leave missing her being born we call
it born day.
SPEAKER_04 (30:57):
Uh 20 minutes after I left.
SPEAKER_03 (30:59):
Oh, that's too much.
So my youngest Brittany wasthere and basically while I'm
away she mimicking just to beback home.
Oh no.
SPEAKER_04 (31:16):
So, anyways, um graduated.
SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
I was uh top of my class, of course.
I also had the top score for themonth of October.
But we had to go to a secondcall the versatile.
SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
This was uh learning how to do 80 millimeter tape or
film that came off the SR 71.
Okay.
The spy planes.
Yeah, yeah.
So we had to learn how to keepthe everything balanced in the
(31:58):
and all that.
SPEAKER_03 (32:00):
I was hoping to get my silver certificate, but we
had one drill where we had to doit as a oh no, so I didn't get
that.
Um my mom and dad came down towatch me graduate from school in
(32:21):
January, and then I drove home.
Uh-huh.
And such.
So I became a photographer onthe base, and kind of impressed
them that I did want to work,because I guess some of the
guards there did not do much.
(32:44):
I wanted to do much.
And so I had a bivum there basedvisual.
And it was all about him.
Uh you didn't do anythingwithout his approval.
(33:06):
But having just I knew I didn'treally have his approval to
maybe basic stuff, go there andput that metal on the chest or
change a plans.
The flag one time I was out andabout, the army was gonna do a
(33:32):
drop over set it up and go ask.
And he said no.
He photographs as such.
(33:55):
Sort of like from if you don'tput your pictures out there to
the bureau up in Washington,nobody's gonna know what to do
out here.
Right.
You gotta tell your story.
So and they haven't done so.
(34:17):
There was one time I went towater survival, through it all,
take pictures, people doingbeing taught.
Got to do the parachute dropfrom eboat, and um we so
(34:41):
photographing all that stuff.
Uh huh.
And so on a drill weekend, Iscanned my negatives because
it's all film and senteverything up to the hero
remarkably forced.
(35:02):
How did that feel?
That was great.
Yeah.
Didn't make my live on happy.
He threatened to throw me out ofphotography.
Because it wasn't about him.
Right.
He didn't get credit.
Yeah.
So um after that, um, I cancontinue on doing stuff.
(35:24):
Uh-huh.
The rolling around 2001 now.
I had been thinking, well, I gottwenty-four years in what you
want to do.
SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
So for people who don't uh who aren't familiar
with the National Guard, right,you get your 20-year letter,
which means you could retire atany time.
And when I got my 20-yearletter, that kind of changed how
I saw things.
I don't know if it was kind ofthe same for you.
Like you didn't have to be thereanymore.
SPEAKER_04 (36:01):
Yeah.
We would get a letter becausethey still approve of me.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (36:06):
So I would get a three-year extended another
three-year extiry.
SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
Okay.
So But you're you're 24 years inat this point.
Yeah.
In 2001.
SPEAKER_04 (36:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
So what happens?
SPEAKER_04 (36:21):
So um we would pull our kids out of school the first
week or second week in Novemberbecause they're they're a
student.
Right.
And it's only review time forthe first two weeks after summer
break.
So we pull them out and takethem to Disney.
(36:44):
So it's September 2001, andwe're down in Disney.
SPEAKER_03 (36:51):
And we're going to go to Blizzard, because they got
the big slides, all thatwonderful stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (37:00):
Oh, yeah.
And so we're going to leaveabout nine o'clock on the TV.
SPEAKER_03 (37:06):
I say, Oh, burning buildings.
Let's go to let's go to thebeach.
So we went there.
And then about 10 30, 11o'clock, we get an announcement
overhead saying the world isclosed.
And I it's like you hear thisall over about people talking
(37:32):
aloud about build planescrashing buildings, the
Pentagon, Pennsylvania.
Right.
And so uh we went back to ourroom, stayed at the pool, and
I'm thinking, and it did.
(37:52):
So in 2001, my buddy uh SergeantCleveland got a gig in
Washington, D.C.
for three months.
All he did was edit PowerPoint.
These PowerPoints go to thePentagon, and they would see
(38:15):
what's happening.
That also in Kosovo.
So he came back.
He says, Glenn, you gotta dothis.
So I did.
I put in for it.
I got it.
I was there April, May, June.
(39:14):
So it was May, April, April,May.
Coming home in August.
It was fantastic.
Because you could see how thewar was progressing, how Hussef
was doing, and such.
That there for twelve hours.
(39:35):
And you make sure theinformation that's feeding from
the room next door from otherguards, what the guard is.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
So you really got like a good view of what was
happening.
SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
And I wanted to do again in 2003, but I turned down
because they didn't have enoughroom on base, so I got put up in
Georgetown.
(40:10):
Nothing wrong with that.
What happened is my kids got outof school and I can't visit for
about three weeks.
Uh-huh.
And then I came home in August.
And I tried to do that again in2003, but because of some errors
(40:37):
I made.
Right.
So we're getting to uh Decemberof 2000.
And so I'm into my computercareer.
I'm up to the point where I canrepair laptops, plays, re-image
the PCs, and help basic breakfix problems, people having
(41:03):
problems, logging on, and otherhands.
Right.
And I do about 40k, basicallymyself.
And another person we well, Iclo I close forty.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
So we'd have a little friendly competition.
SPEAKER_03 (41:27):
Something.
SPEAKER_01 (41:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:29):
And so I'm sitting there, it's after Christmas, and
my buddy, Sergeant Cleveland,calls at work.
Uh-huh.
(41:49):
And well, we were hourly then,so I told my super waves all
from the base.
I go, great.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (42:06):
Well, on unboked to me in my drill that day, in in
the guard, and I imagine otherservices, you don't have a
war-time job.
SPEAKER_03 (42:18):
You're not in the guard.
unknown (42:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (42:20):
Needed a wartime.
And so uh Mike Cleveland was hisfull name.
Uh he took me over to Intel andshowed me what his job was.
So I learned it in ten minutes.
Basically taking video,digitizing it, transmit over the
(42:45):
internet, analog to thisdigital.
And I go, yeah, yeah, noproblem.
10 minutes.
So um also unbeknownst to me, mybivim went to a two-week school
to learn what I did.
Right.
(43:06):
Knowledge of computers.
SPEAKER_04 (43:08):
So um I'm sitting there in the office with my
commander.
And he says, uh, Mike here tellsme you can do his job.
You picked it up pretty quick.
SPEAKER_03 (43:21):
Oh, yeah, no problem.
He says, Would you like to go toIraq?
I go, Okay.
Sure, why not?
So I volunteered to go there.
I'm 52 right now.
SPEAKER_04 (43:41):
Yeah, 52 going to Iraq with our one with the 127th
fighter squadron called the RedDevils.
SPEAKER_03 (43:52):
And twelve aircraft were deployed, such.
Um told my wife, Bill Glanak.
I was interested in being thatother guy on the other side of
uh World War II photos takingpictures.
(44:15):
Yeah.
But I wanted so not to throw Godin with me.
I prayed for a year at church,do this.
And I go.
SPEAKER_01 (44:29):
Well, I I find that when God answers a prayer, uh
you better you better moveforward.
SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
So I did that.
SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (44:38):
And uh we went to a Air Force Base, Columbia, South
Carolina, and went through aboutwhat we were mostly what Intel
was mostly there.
(44:59):
And they, you know, made commentpeople going to the green zone.
Baghdad said, careful.
Right.
Well, guess what?
When we were there, our base washit sixty out of thirty ninety
(45:20):
days.
Rockets, RPGs, orders.
They were bad shots.
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Right, thank goodness.
SPEAKER_04 (45:32):
They they they were bad shots.
I did have one uh rocket landmaybe 50 yards from me while I
was in all the quiet zone there,where we could go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (45:46):
Then the rocket hit and on the ground.
Last over.
SPEAKER_02 (45:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (45:56):
So uh basically my job there was taking digital
taking uh video tapes off of iSony Sony 8 recorders that are
in the F-16s.
Take those tapes, add a player,and I'd sit across from Intel,
(46:17):
the pilot would be next, and theIntel person says, Glenn, I need
uh 15 seconds.
Uh-huh.
So digitize it, my name, pilot'sname, date, mission number,
digitize it, then I turn around,upload it from the SIPRNet to uh
(46:42):
guitar.
So the job was 12 hours a day,90 days a week for the for the
three months I was there.
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
No, no timeout.
SPEAKER_03 (46:57):
Right?
SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
And so I would uh walk the half mile back.
SPEAKER_03 (47:02):
I got my full gear on, bulletproof vest, helmet.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:10):
Gloves, goggles, all the fun stuff, right?
SPEAKER_03 (47:12):
No, no, not at mop level yet.
SPEAKER_01 (47:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (47:16):
We did carry our gas.
SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you were there, you werethere for 90 days?
Yeah.
And then where from where didyou go from there?
Oh.
Okay.
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (47:29):
Uh saw a lot of interesting stuff on the tapes.
Uh-huh.
Touch.
Some of the bomb drops.
Apparently, one of my videos orhowever it did, somebody
released it to the net to uhYouTube.
unknown (47:52):
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (47:53):
Oh.
Just look up Lucia.
You'll see 30 seconds bomb beingreleased, then moved over
because people in the buildingmoved and were heading towards
the day tag.
(48:16):
Uh pilots can't take.
They have to there's groundcontrollers.
SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (48:24):
So um come home, and the big picture.
Mom and dad, and kids running upto their dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (48:39):
So I'm Colonel Bankstall was at my commander,
and I'm the last one there atthe welcome.
And the base failed to tell mywife.
SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_04 (48:53):
But she is on base.
Okay and she's shopping.
SPEAKER_01 (48:56):
Okay.
So she's nearby anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (48:59):
Yeah.
So hey, I asked her, can Iborrow your phone?
SPEAKER_03 (49:03):
So I go, uh, dear, I'm waiting.
So she comes over, kids are withdad and such, and uh such basic
off to put it back another 90days when leaving.
Both kids are hugging me.
(49:26):
Oh, yeah.
My eyes are just dreaming.
Get on the plane.
Right.
So after that, you get a fullmonth off.
And we went down.
Where else would you go?
SPEAKER_04 (49:45):
We stopped in at uh my mom and dad, my mom's farm
house.
They have a reunion at thattime.
SPEAKER_03 (49:55):
So we get to see the cousins.
This is 2000.
Oh.
So 2005 rolls around.
And I said, well, yeah.
And after 30 years in August2005, got out of the guard.
SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
Well, can you tell me?
I mean, that 30 years is a longtime to be to be there.
What was it like for you puttingon that uniform for the last
time?
How did that feel?
SPEAKER_04 (50:31):
Well, it it felt good.
But uh my personal opinion,after you're out, your uniform.
I I never was a person to dressup on Veterans Day and march
with your pedals there.
SPEAKER_03 (50:51):
Um after that, all the prestige hours gone.
Right.
From from you.
And you're a civilian.
So but I wouldn't have missed itfor the world.
No, no.
(51:12):
And it's my wife will say neverhad a midlife crisis.
Right.
Something important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, anyways, after thatcontinued working at Trinity.
(51:35):
I was really itching to getpromoted.
But I had a manager that wasbasically out there during the
60s protesting military.
He knew I was there.
Yeah.
And I never really got promotedthere.
(51:55):
When I left to go to photographyschool, he told me to my face
that I wouldn't even give apregnant six months off little
you.
Right.
You have to.
So um what I did is I startedputting in jobs at other places
(52:21):
in the system.
So I got a job at Detroit MercyHospital in Detroit.
And I guess it a little bit moremoney down the mortgage.
Right.
And I was pretty good there.
Then Trinity decided, well,we'll close Detroit Mercy.
(52:47):
So this is uh the during thegreat Wi-Fi.
So during that time, I had to bethere to midnight before the
clock over.
Oh yes, Y2K.
And nothing.
Right.
(53:07):
So, anyways, I'm closing downthe hospital, packing up the
computers and such.
And the HR called and said,Well, we can put you back over
in Ann Arbor.
I go, Well, I want to work atFarmington.
I'd rather quit than anythingelse.
(53:33):
All the noise in the hospital.
And so I started working there.
I got certified in repairingcomputers, uh, ordering parts
(53:55):
from them.
It was a discount compared tothem per buying it.
And got to know thousands ofpeople there repairing and such.
And then in 2020, uh, I wasgiven a box said, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:21):
I was time to retire is what they thought.
SPEAKER_04 (54:26):
Basically, they they cut back a few other other
people.
SPEAKER_03 (54:31):
Um it's interesting.
I have Lincoln edit, and and Ican see how other people just
moved on to other places in thehealth industry.
So what did you do when youleft?
Well, um, I've never been one tohave idle hands.
(54:56):
And occasionally your wife wantsyou out of the house.
SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
Because you're driving her crazy at this point,
right?
SPEAKER_04 (55:04):
So I've been a member of this place for 30
years, but only a member.
SPEAKER_03 (55:13):
And then towards um the end, uh we were doing server
routing and sorry, donatingequipment.
SPEAKER_01 (55:28):
Tim Nichols, Phil Kennedy were the team doing
that, and they said well, andfor people watching this, you
were at the um the MichiganFlight Museum, right?
Down by uh Willowrun Airport.
SPEAKER_04 (55:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (55:42):
Okay.
You started really volunteeringyour time here.
SPEAKER_04 (55:45):
Coming here, um, I would sit in that room I showed
you.
SPEAKER_03 (55:49):
Uh-huh.
And they would ask him, okay,well.
So I would I'd start doingthings, people would lose files
on the server, they would haveproblems scanning, have the same
thing I was doing, but not involume for the days.
(56:16):
So then got to do we used tohave different locations because
our 1940 hangar burnt down.
We were lost a lot of stuff.
(56:37):
Right.
A lot of world war.
The one thing we didn't lose wasthe membership of the computer
because they were havingproblems with it.
So the person took it home.
Next day the barn burned down.
Oh.
So that was lucky because weafter that we had a couple homes
(57:02):
last sandtop old building, andcame here after they caught it
and built all the delays back.
We had a flying B-17, flying B45, D-47, Huey helicopter.
(57:32):
So we had to tell our B-17, notbecause it was brokering,
getting our small inweight.
You still have your helicopter,though.
SPEAKER_04 (57:47):
We have the Huey, we have the D-47 and the B-5.
SPEAKER_03 (57:54):
They all go to air shows and they then do rides.
SPEAKER_01 (58:03):
Right.
My wife and I actually rode uhin the Huey at the Freedom River
uh event.
So we loved it.
SPEAKER_03 (58:11):
I just came out there to take pictures for the
museum.
Um they sold the museum, I guessthey got because it's a flying
and certified that year.
But the person that bought itwill have it disassembled,
(58:34):
redone.
Like it was brand new.
Wow.
Fully shipped it.
New Zealand.
So you've been volunteering herefor at least eleven years.
SPEAKER_01 (58:51):
Right, eleven years.
And um actually, when I talkedto you last week, you're you're
getting ready to move and you'llbe leaving the flight museum.
Um, how does that feel?
SPEAKER_03 (59:04):
Well, I guess it feels like um try.
Okay.
But happens.
Um lot of people here appreciatewhat I do.
Yeah.
You know, there's a hangar overthere, not far from us, and we
(59:26):
had to hook up internet there,but Tomcat says it'll be a
million dollars.
SPEAKER_04 (59:35):
We go, no.
So what we do is we have atransmitter on top of that, and
it links to it.
SPEAKER_03 (59:43):
They get their internet.
So that's one of the things I'mproud of.
Um when I got uh retired from nohandshake, no party, just out
the door with charity.
(01:00:06):
And uh they threw a party for melast week, which was fantastic,
more than I had with Trinity andsuch.
They're gonna have to findsomebody.
They have Tim Nichols, butbefore I came, he would come in
(01:00:27):
in the evening.
There's another guy here that Iwould love to talk to Tim do
that because he's a docent.
But it'll be different.
Um they do have Tima out there.
(01:00:54):
Everybody goes there.
Fantastic.
They have another consolidatedair.
I'll have to check them out.
They need any computer.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:13):
So when you so when you get out to Arizona, you're
not gonna, you're you're uhyou're still looking at uh at
that uh serving in in somecapacity.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:22):
Yeah, it's um I know too many people didn't.
Right.
And they're grave.
Gotta be busy.
Yeah, for sure.
You have to be busy, keep yourmind active, whatever you're
doing.
Yeah.
Um my kids, Brittany and Krista.
(01:01:45):
Krista is out in Arizona andbrother.
Um real quick, I met my wife atthe bowling act, like my yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:55):
We talked about that earlier, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:58):
And we've been married.
Congratulations.
So Polish half German, halfIrish.
And our serpents are 300.
unknown (01:02:19):
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:20):
So, anyways, um gotta be active doing stuff.
I have a lot of videos out thereof our trips.
That's called all of the well,where can people see your videos
if they want to see your videos?
SPEAKER_04 (01:02:42):
They look up Hawkeye161.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:46):
Hawkeye161, and that's your your YouTube name
channel name.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:51):
And uh the so Krista teaches Al graduated a math
degree, and now she's into doingstudents kindergarten but grade
(01:03:13):
school STEM classes, beinginterested in right.
My oldest, Brittany, uhgraduated from the Toledo
University as a chemicalengineer.
(01:03:33):
She had been working on theglass down there, and she has an
interest in the space program.
And so she went down to whereSandusky is as the world's
largest vacuum.
(01:03:56):
They had open house.
She's wandering around andtalked to someone saying, Hey,
you got hired.
Worked there about six weeksago.
Worked on the Orion spacecraftaround the moon.
(01:04:17):
And um she was able to Thorthropcalled her and said, Hey, got
stuff for ya.
You can come down here watchArtemis rocket.
We went down there, we gotcanceled twice because of
problems.
(01:04:38):
He got to go back the third timethere as well, but nowadays
great position he was in.
So she got that.
So Brittany's now teaching.
You want to see her?
Do yoga by beat on Facebook.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:58):
Okay.
So I gotta ask though, does shestill do impersonations of of uh
your other daughter being born?
SPEAKER_04 (01:05:06):
Uh no.
No, no.
Although we do have video of it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:11):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, and that has to come outonce in a while, right?
Yes.
Well, Glenn, we've covered a lotin the in the last hour.
We've talked about your yourlife and really your life of
service, all the really amazingthings that you've seen, simply,
you know, from the beginning ofcomputing to what it is today,
and uh you're getting ready forthat next chapter in your life.
(01:05:35):
Um, so I want I really have twoquestions left.
The first question is Is thereanything that we haven't talked
about that you still wanted totalk about?
Uh is my first question.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05:47):
Well, talk about my wife.
Yeah.
Uh Debbie Wilkowes.
Debbie Lorbes.
Uh 100% Polish and master of thekitchen.
She has a culinary degree years,and had a variety of different
(01:06:10):
jobs at the hospital.
She got tired of cooking, thenshe did eight years as an ER
escort at St.
Joe's Hospital.
And then she stopped doing that.
And for the last 15 techniques,she's uh she's done driving
(01:06:36):
people to the airport.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06:39):
So kind of works as a contractor to other but she
has her own people that willcall her.
So when she goes to Arizona, allof that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:54):
I get the feeling that she probably will uh do it
out be just fine.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06:59):
She'll be fine.
And she's already hinted thatshe may pick it up again, but
just drive that one person,they'll get a referral.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07:10):
Right.
Right.
The reason we're moving toArizona is we used to do a
three-month ride where we'd goto Florida, over to Pensacola,
then to Arizona.
SPEAKER_04 (01:07:28):
And we did it first time we did it, we did an
Airbnb, and we didn't reallylike where we were doing this
for a month.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07:40):
Then I found that this other house that was
fantastic was bigger, had abigger backyard, the pool.
And my wife likes to swim everyday when she can.
So uh back then after that, uh Igot to know who the manager was,
(01:08:09):
and she said, call me.
Save those Airbnbs.
So I did, and we did that forfour years, same house month.
And because we had looked atother houses, there's nother,
neither nor any of them we likedbecause they had a post-damp
(01:08:33):
backyard.
Right.
And so this year we were down inPetsacola, got the call from
her, says the owner says you canhave the first bid on the house.
(01:08:53):
Really?
The last few years because hehas medical.
So I go, Debbie, do it.
You want to do it?
So we started the process whilewe were in Petzcola.
We then had another houserenting in because it was
(01:09:23):
two-story and did have a pool,but so we did the VA loan
through the whole process.
Took a month.
So that's the house we're goingto.
(01:09:43):
Nice.
It wasn't like this house.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09:48):
So you know you know enough about it?
SPEAKER_04 (01:09:50):
You've been there and we know the area.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:09:54):
Her brother lives ten minutes from us, Queen's
Creek.
SPEAKER_03 (01:09:58):
Mm-hmm.
And um probably a year or two,my oldest will probably move out
there.
She'll have the family.
Yeah.
Nice.
So I will not move because of Idon't have any grandkids.
(01:10:20):
Right.
And people won't move becausethey have grandkids.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10:24):
So I think they're if they want to live other than
Michigan or well, it sounds likethat next chapter is gonna be
exciting for you.
I'll I'll I'll be interested touh hear how things are going.
SPEAKER_04 (01:10:42):
Well, I'll throw YouTube up there.
SPEAKER_03 (01:10:45):
I think but oh as another thing.
Uh I was originally a Baptistand I um since God answered me,
(01:11:10):
I'll become Catholic.
So um I was in a bomb shelterbecause we had the big siren
going on.
Yeah.
And the Catholic with me andsuch.
So I started attending Catholicservices there.
(01:11:33):
And then when I came back, Iwent to Chaddy.
unknown (01:11:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (01:11:40):
Right.
And so I I was lying to the kidswhere I was going at the time
something left out.
Um, I got a black belt andkarate.
So I was telling them I wasgoing to school.
Some different techniques.
Then when my baptism time werereally a little shocked.
(01:12:08):
Yeah, because we had made themgo catechism.
I had right, right.
So now now you're you'reCatholic.
Every Saturday, just like mywife.
She was born Catholic.
But yeah, go on Saturday becausethen you You don't have to get
(01:12:32):
up early.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:33):
Because this is a Saturday service, like in the
afternoon or about four or fiveo'clock, depending where you're
at.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:39):
So we we'll do that.
And uh that's incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:47):
Lots of great churches out in uh out in
Arizona too.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:50):
Yeah, we have one that we'll be going.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:53):
Well, good.
Good.
Well, that really brings me tothe final question for our
interview today, and that is forpeople listening to this years
from now, maybe a hundred yearsfrom now, um, what message would
you like to leave them with?
SPEAKER_03 (01:13:09):
Well, um, what I'd like to say is there's a person
on Jordan, and he did a videotalking about kids, and it kind
of fits me, and it also fits mytwo kids, where you have a time
(01:13:38):
frame until you're about twentyfour to learn a because you're
leaving stuff behind as a kid,you're you're not partying,
you're not doing stuff.
Like if you're um a plumber,electrician, you're learning a
(01:14:03):
that you can use, and you havethis narrow window for learning.
Once you're on the other side ofthat narrow window, you can do
the things that you doubt as akid, so you can go out and do
(01:14:27):
other things, including your jobthat you but you can do other
things.
And if you're a couch potato andyou're 30 years old still living
at home, there's a problem.
So my kids got out of the housequickly.
(01:14:51):
Both of them got jobs out ofcollege, they're both doing
fine.
Not calling dad or or mom, hey,I no, they're all self-confident
as such what they're doing.
So, like I said, my advice isthat your children should get
(01:15:19):
some skill to stop doing whatthey might have been sixteen or
seven.
When my daughter was sixteen,always wondered why she was
leaving early for high school.
Found out that set up the lamp.
(01:15:46):
And so the same way with Krista.
Wanted to teach you.
So she went to Grand Valley andgot her job by her connector.
Uh Debbie's relatives were butshe got a job.
(01:16:11):
Right.
So I'd encourage anyone whowants to be in the military to
join the air.
And of course, you have to havea good ASVAV score for that.
And um do what you're interestedin.
(01:16:33):
I originally wanted uhphotography art work at it.
Right.
I did, got it.
All right, but the other thing Iwould say about my photography
(01:16:54):
skills are good, but I neverreally could make a living at.
Right.
Do what you have to do so youcan do what you want to do,
right?
Basically.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17:10):
All right.
Well, Glenn, thanks for takingtime out this morning to sit and
talk with me.
I really appreciate it.
Today is Monday, November 24th, 2025.
We're talking with GlennWilkowitz, who served in the Air
National Guard.
So good morning, Glenn.
Yeah.
And uh thank you for sittingwith me through all the
technical difficulties thatwe've had this morning.
No problem.
But I think we're on the rightpath at this point.
Okay.
Great.
So we'll start out withsomething really simple.
(01:20):
When and where were you born?
SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
I was born in Detroit.
At the uh at Salvation Uh ArmyHospital that was there.
Um I lived in Detroit about 24years.
Okay.
What year were you born?
September 10th, 1951.
(01:42):
1951.
So tell me about growing up inDetroit.
What was that like for you?
Well, my neighborhood was theusual kind back then.
Kids down the street you playedwith, you did things together,
um, go golfing occasionally withthem.
Uh park was down the street, uhnear Gomper's uh uh elementary
(02:11):
school, and the park there iswhere we would play softball or
hardball, uh do skating when thewinter was there and such.
Um what basically happened to myneighborhood is the expressway
came through.
(02:31):
Oh, that'll change things.
That was on in schoolcraft andBurt Road area, just wiped them
out.
SPEAKER_03 (02:42):
Um so most of my friends went away.
SPEAKER_04 (02:48):
They moved, and so there wasn't that much activity
after that.
Uh-huh.
Now, do you have brothers andsisters?
I have one brother, name isMark, and right now he lives in
Tennessee uh and such.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Now, are you very close in age?
SPEAKER_04 (03:09):
Uh he is just turned 70, so he's he's about three
years behind me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Okay.
All right.
So not not quite close enough inage to be best pals then when
your friends all moved away.
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Or or did you or did you Well, my brother uh left,
moved out when he was 18.
Okay.
As soon as high school camearound, he's gone.
Yeah.
I hung around till I was 24before I finally moved out.
Okay.
Now tell me a little bit aboutyour parents.
Uh what did your what did yourparents do?
(03:42):
Well, my dad uh joined the Navywhen he was 17.
Uh he didn't um really like theway he had to go in, but he uh
ended up uh going to boot campin uh Chicago at the induction
(04:03):
center there.
My mom uh lived on a farm withher twelve brothers and sisters
in Bonertown, Tennessee.
And uh when she turned about 17or 18 in during the war, uh she
(04:25):
too left the farm and went downto Maxwell Airbase in uh
Alabama.
Yeah, Alabama, where sherepaired bullet holes on
airplanes.
Oh.
And such.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
So she was kind of a Rosie the Riveter then.
SPEAKER_04 (04:45):
In a way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She uh never talked about otherthan to say there were a lot of
cute pilots down there.
And pretty much with my dad aswell.
He uh served on a cargo ship,kind of like in the movie of Mr.
Roberts.
(05:05):
Okay, uh except his was anammunition ship ammo.
SPEAKER_03 (05:13):
But I have um map at home that shows all his
journeys.
He was a plank, means that hewas the first crew to serve on
the ship.
And basically they only had twobattle stars because they would
(05:36):
be floating around in areaswhere uh the Navy Army had
already taken over the island.
So they didn't see much actionthere.
Um he never graduated highschool.
And she and my mom they met in abowling app.
(06:02):
Got hooked up that way.
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
All kinds of places to meet people, isn't there?
SPEAKER_04 (06:07):
Yeah.
As a side note, how I met mywife.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Oh well, it seems to have worked out, yeah.
Yeah.
So your uh your parents met, andthen um how did they end up in
Michigan?
SPEAKER_04 (06:21):
Um, well, that's a bit of a story, I think.
Originally, they were uh livingin clear Winter Haven, Winter
Haven, Florida, and this was atthe start of the Korean War, and
he got a note from his mom aboutwanting the Navy to him to
(06:47):
report in.
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
I think it just later he just mama wanted her
his her boy back in Michigan.
So they came back to Michigan,they bought a house, Gielding
Street, school craft area.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
And the rest is history, as they say.
SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
So talk to me a little bit about school.
And I know you uh lived at homeuntil you're 24, but so you
graduated high school?
SPEAKER_04 (07:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Um I was rather unremarkable and I did that time
I was suffering from allergiesand asthma.
I never really participated insports.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (07:39):
So I joined ROTC and such, which I kind of liked and
such, because we had activitieswe would do, things like with
plays, that among those.
SPEAKER_03 (07:56):
Okay.
So graduated when I wasseventeen.
Mom and dad never really harpedabout going to college or
anything.
So I kind of floated around, youmight um so that was my high
(08:18):
school.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
You uh had joined the uh ROC.
RCC.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:22):
You know, we did the usual thing.
SPEAKER_03 (08:25):
Uh had a rifle range, the basement of Redford
High School, and we havemarching competition against
other trade schools and such.
So that was extra careercurricular activity.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Now, do you think that that uh kind of fired up
your interest in being in themilitary?
SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
Uh actually it was it's a little weird.
SPEAKER_03 (08:53):
We would always go visit my aunt at Okie in the
north, one of the suburbs ofright.
And we would with my dad anduncle, we would c occasionally
(09:15):
watch watch Walter Conk 20thcentury.
It was all war movies or news.
Right.
And I wasn't so much curiousabout that.
I was just thinking about thepeople who were doing that,
(09:37):
filming it.
And I thought that was that wasso um, anyways, I had interest
in photography then negative.
Right.
And um so, anyways, uh after I Idid work locally at one of the
(10:07):
DNC markets.
Uh-huh.
That was blocks with WalterStrom in it.
And I was just sort of aninnocent guy packing bags.
Right.
And I didn't know at the timethat Walters was well known
(10:27):
about his meeting good butchery.
And apparently what they calledback then, this was 1968, what
they call the production linefor Bedwick, they would come
there.
Oh.
I would pack it.
(10:48):
I don't know who the hell youwere, because I never watched
hockey.
Right.
Wasn't your thing.
It wasn't my thing.
So that was probably one of thehighlights.
Uh-huh.
After that, I started working inHudson's apartment in Northland.
(11:13):
And the guy there that would bein charge of me acted as if I
was gonna work there for 30years, like, yeah.
So but basically all I would dois break down.
And I had a few incidents whereI got chided for after three
(11:39):
months I got fired.
Oh, well.
So so much for that career.
SPEAKER_04 (11:45):
So I um collected on the for a while.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
I did have other part-time jobs that I did.
One of them was deliveringflowers.
That was just a couple change.
And another time I workedpart-time for Sears that was
(12:11):
bonia that.
Then one day I was lookingthrough the paper um and they
had an ad for computer training.
SPEAKER_04 (12:27):
So um I had money saved, went to it.
I did couldn't afford theprogramming.
SPEAKER_03 (12:36):
So I just learned l operations Honeywell computer
and such.
So I started looking for jobsafter I graduated.
I got one at what's calledPlymouth where they had the old
(12:58):
um TV gun factory.
Oh, okay.
Um my teacher wasn't that greatat showing me how still work.
I got released fired and such.
(13:18):
But I did end up with anotherjob on Greenfield Road and
Street Call of the Data.
Basically their main thing wasprinting out paper coupons with
Paul purchased new cars.
(13:40):
Okay.
Right.
They still do it.
Uh huh.
Other companies.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (13:49):
So I would be uh worked in data control, got in
because I wanted to be an opera.
SPEAKER_03 (13:56):
So they had an opening on the midnight as a
printer operator, print out 10,12 boxes of stuff, then go over
to the mail room and uh make along story short, eventually got
(14:17):
on afternoons, then on days, andthey had a computer operator
thing open there.
So I went started trainingthere.
Unbeknownst to me, there wasthis union thing going on where
the warehouse joined the teamand all of the operators grew in
(14:45):
with them.
So the work rule used to be Icould if I was called in like I
did on it on Saturday, I couldwork four hours because I had
done it before to get eight.
Right.
Because it was Saturday calledin.
Well apparently somewhere theyuh changed the rules, and I
(15:10):
ended up being fired for falsifyfalsifying my time card.
I'm out of working still livingat home.
And leading up to joining theinternational guard for that,
(15:31):
Vietnam, I had a pretty gooddraft.
Yeah.
But unbeknownst to me, my momtalked to my allergy.
He submitted the letter to thedraft.
They labeled me 4F.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
So mom did not want her boy going off to basically
moms have a way of doing thatsometimes.
SPEAKER_04 (15:58):
This ties in later when I went there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:01):
So, anyways, uh, I didn't know all that.
So I was uh at Cennial Library,Dearborn, Ford City.
SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
And I picked up a uh postcard saying, join the guard,
build it out.
They uh ran me through the ASVABtest that you have to do.
Yep.
And to make sure it's into theair.
(16:31):
Somebody will take a differentscore.
So, anyways, I passed all that.
Um and I think I called my mom.
Well, my told my parents, hey,going to the airport, give me a
ride.
Because I joined.
Yeah.
(16:52):
Raised the right hand, all thatgood stuff.
So I was in boot camp uh sixweeks.
Yeah, down in uh Texas, right?
Uh Lackland Air Force.
Uh-huh.
The only one where all the AirForce people go to.
(17:13):
And then after graduating, umwent up to Wichita Falls Airbase
there, and went learned the B3500 Burroughs computers.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
Wow.
So this is what, 1975?
SPEAKER_04 (17:35):
Yes, this is 1975.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
So computers haven't quitearen't quite what we have today,
that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
I'm I as I explained to one of our volunteers here,
I'm a I'm a fossil.
SPEAKER_03 (17:52):
Because I started out practically at the beginning
of it.
So I graduated from there.
And anything else?
No more.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Well, no, I mean we can continue talking.
Yeah, we can continue through.
SPEAKER_04 (18:11):
So as a result of all that uh education, I got a
job at St.
SPEAKER_03 (18:19):
Joe's Mercy Hospital.
And uh I was there 37 years.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
So you finally figured out how not to get
fired.
SPEAKER_04 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, basically.
Yeah.
Know your stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Yeah.
So so let's talk a little bitmore about your time in the
military.
So you signed up to work in thein data systems then for the Air
Force.
SPEAKER_04 (18:42):
Of course, what they trained me on, we they didn't
have it, the base.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (18:46):
We had something called RJ.
And that's remote job entryterminal.
Basically, it was a typewriter.
You'd load the program on apaper tape.
SPEAKER_03 (19:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:01):
And they would then transmit their information up to
Niagara National Guard in NewYork.
It would process there and sendit back to us and print it out
on green bar paper.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
So you were one of the original remote remote
workers, then really.
SPEAKER_04 (19:23):
Basically, there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
And what we did locally there is we one of the
people in our unit knew Fortran.
SPEAKER_03 (19:36):
So he wrote a program so that uh at the
theater we'd have roll call.
SPEAKER_04 (19:46):
And everybody had to drop their little bit of paper
in a bag, and then we would getit and check off who was there.
SPEAKER_03 (19:55):
Mm-hmm.
Print out local program and thengive it to whoever makes
personal.
unknown (20:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (20:05):
Like that.
Now, how long were you there?
30 years.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Well, in in but you were, I mean, in Wichita Falls.
SPEAKER_04 (20:15):
No.
Oh, Wichita Falls.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:17):
That was two months of training.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Okay.
And then after that it was justregular National Guard, right?
SPEAKER_04 (20:24):
Yes, after that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
And then so was Selfridge where you went or was
Selfridge.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (20:31):
And so back in those days, we were like a foreign
body when we did our drill.
So couldn't go to the liquorstore.
The only time we could go if wewere on two weeks.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
So for a long time though, in the National Guard,
like during that period, therewasn't a lot.
SPEAKER_04 (21:02):
It was really one week in the we would we would be
training mostly.
SPEAKER_03 (21:08):
It's was mostly your ancillary job.
Right.
And such.
SPEAKER_04 (21:14):
So our basic uh duty for the 191st, then, was
defending the northern tier.
SPEAKER_03 (21:25):
The Russian bombers.
F-106.
So we would practice sheltermaking.
And we would pretend we're in ashelter.
We'd be in the basement.
SPEAKER_04 (21:40):
We'd have all the imaginary decontaminants.
SPEAKER_03 (21:48):
Because you'd be outside, have to take your boots
off, your uniform, and put in aclosable bag.
SPEAKER_04 (21:57):
So not taking your clothes off during practice.
Right.
But we were simulating it,certainly.
Simulating.
That would be usually on aSunday, we do it half the day.
So bring up and such.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
My I was and all that.
That would it went on for abouttill the Soviets play.
Right.
Um, the other thing we would do,we would uh deploy for two
(22:32):
weeks, usually in February downto Florida.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Wow, that sounds really rough.
SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
We'd go there, and I I I was real good now at
operating IBM 3040.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
So you've moved up into into different so you've
really watched the progressionof I mean, back when they had
like punch cards, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:58):
Yes, all the way through Polarith cards, yeah,
tapes, mag tape, paper tape, andsuch.
SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
Yeah.
And that's I could talk at thatfor a but that's so but you've
seen that like it's I've seenthe evolution.
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (23:15):
And I keep up.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah.
Because I don't want the No, youdon't want to be the guy still
doing DOS programming wheneveryone else is using point
one.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:26):
So um I would basically sit there while the
other Air Force guys.
SPEAKER_03 (23:35):
Maybe I get a little bit like go hang the teeth.
Right.
Right.
And so um I did that till uh Ihad a career change in the 90s,
late late 80s.
(23:55):
Okay.
As an admin.
Oh.
And we would uh train people oncomputer using their gosh awful
software called enable.
SPEAKER_04 (24:10):
And they would use laserdisks.
SPEAKER_01 (24:13):
And this was like the the old green CRT machines,
is that what you were using forthe time?
SPEAKER_04 (24:19):
In a way, yes, they were green.
SPEAKER_03 (24:22):
But you know, we had the uh what we call the 286
processor.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
That was the stuff, right?
SPEAKER_04 (24:31):
That was That was high end then.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
So I want to stop for just a second.
So at the same time you're doingthis in the military, you're
working for the hospital system,and you're seeing the same
evolution there, aren't you?
SPEAKER_04 (24:42):
Yeah, a little bit faster.
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, but yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_04 (24:46):
Um the thing is where I worked at uh they were
gonna move, we were up to thelatest version of mainframe
computing, big iron.
Yeah, they called it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
That's where you had rooms full of computing
equipment, right?
SPEAKER_04 (25:04):
So we were still not connected to the outside world
yet.
SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
Mm-hmm.
Were later on.
But um higher up because westarted to incorporate my
hospital.
And before that, I could get allmy work done at two o'clock.
I worked afternoons the most.
(25:31):
Uh-huh.
And it'd be all done by eighto'clock because nobody had
hardwire connection.
That l changed later on when webecome a twenty-four-hour.
Right.
So, anyways, the powers to bedecided to move the mainframe
(25:53):
from here in Ipsy to MountClemens.
So they said, Glenn, you couldhave a go with the mainframe and
drive an hour and fifteenminutes every day, or you can
learn something.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
Is that a hard choice?
SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
Uh no.
It took a it was a though.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
But at that time, I said, okay.
So started out learning IBM8088, two floppy disks, green
monitor, even some Apple IIcomputers for PBI, brain
function, coordination.
SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
Okay.
And they had something of anetwork there, but it was mostly
word processing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
So I'm just curious.
So did that career change takeplace right around the same time
you went to work admin in theguard?
Were those fairly closetogether?
SPEAKER_04 (27:02):
Yeah, pretty close.
SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Okay.
I was just trying to picture howthis was going for you.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
So when I was in the guard or also at the hospital,
um, I developed my interest inphotography.
Okay.
This was um about nineteenninety, bring my camera to all
film back then.
Right.
(27:27):
And we so my I think it was '92,my first sergeant Gary Wright uh
decided, okay, there's anopening.
(27:58):
And I had book learning I had todo with one of the people with
us I became friends with, he wasa AP photographer.
And so um but the Air Forcechanged the where we had to go
(28:22):
to school.
No more buckle.
So I had my paperwork in to goto school.
So did my friend, but why doeshe need to go to school?
So he got the school, right?
But he wasn't gonna go.
And he said, Okay, then here yougo.
(28:46):
So this was in 1993.
Okay.
And in August I shipped out toPetsacola Naval Air Station
March was in August.
And it was a seven-month pool.
(29:07):
All from the beginning.
My first day there, I came in,sat down, the other students
came in.
SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
They all asked, I'm 42 now.
Right.
You you know spring chicken.
And they asked me, Are you yourare you RT?
I thought no.
So we had it was a group oftowards the end of eight people.
SPEAKER_03 (29:39):
Uh-huh.
We had one person that got setback.
It was a Marine.
And he thought it was moreinteresting seeing his
girlfriend in Jackson, Florida,than being at school.
SPEAKER_01 (29:57):
Well, he's probably a young Marine, so who could
blame him, right?
SPEAKER_04 (30:00):
So eventually he I guess the Navy calls became a a
chain dragger.
SPEAKER_03 (30:09):
Mm-hmm.
Some physical work.
But um all this time my wife ispregnant with her second child,
Christmas.
So the doctor had set a date forher birth in October, and I flew
(30:33):
down because I had uh I think itwas holiday.
No, just for the weekend.
SPEAKER_04 (30:42):
So I was going to be there Friday, Saturday, and
Sunday.
So the doctor screwed up.
SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
And I had to leave missing her being born we call
it born day.
SPEAKER_04 (30:57):
Uh 20 minutes after I left.
SPEAKER_03 (30:59):
Oh, that's too much.
So my youngest Brittany wasthere and basically while I'm
away she mimicking just to beback home.
Oh no.
SPEAKER_04 (31:16):
So, anyways, um graduated.
SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
I was uh top of my class, of course.
I also had the top score for themonth of October.
But we had to go to a secondcall the versatile.
SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
This was uh learning how to do 80 millimeter tape or
film that came off the SR 71.
Okay.
The spy planes.
Yeah, yeah.
So we had to learn how to keepthe everything balanced in the
(31:58):
and all that.
SPEAKER_03 (32:00):
I was hoping to get my silver certificate, but we
had one drill where we had to doit as a oh no, so I didn't get
that.
Um my mom and dad came down towatch me graduate from school in
(32:21):
January, and then I drove home.
Uh-huh.
And such.
So I became a photographer onthe base, and kind of impressed
them that I did want to work,because I guess some of the
guards there did not do much.
(32:44):
I wanted to do much.
And so I had a bivum there basedvisual.
And it was all about him.
Uh you didn't do anythingwithout his approval.
(33:06):
But having just I knew I didn'treally have his approval to
maybe basic stuff, go there andput that metal on the chest or
change a plans.
The flag one time I was out andabout, the army was gonna do a
(33:32):
drop over set it up and go ask.
And he said no.
He photographs as such.
(33:55):
Sort of like from if you don'tput your pictures out there to
the bureau up in Washington,nobody's gonna know what to do
out here.
Right.
You gotta tell your story.
So and they haven't done so.
(34:17):
There was one time I went towater survival, through it all,
take pictures, people doingbeing taught.
Got to do the parachute dropfrom eboat, and um we so
(34:41):
photographing all that stuff.
Uh huh.
And so on a drill weekend, Iscanned my negatives because
it's all film and senteverything up to the hero
remarkably forced.
(35:02):
How did that feel?
That was great.
Yeah.
Didn't make my live on happy.
He threatened to throw me out ofphotography.
Because it wasn't about him.
Right.
He didn't get credit.
Yeah.
So um after that, um, I cancontinue on doing stuff.
(35:24):
Uh-huh.
The rolling around 2001 now.
I had been thinking, well, I gottwenty-four years in what you
want to do.
SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
So for people who don't uh who aren't familiar
with the National Guard, right,you get your 20-year letter,
which means you could retire atany time.
And when I got my 20-yearletter, that kind of changed how
I saw things.
I don't know if it was kind ofthe same for you.
Like you didn't have to be thereanymore.
SPEAKER_04 (36:01):
Yeah.
We would get a letter becausethey still approve of me.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (36:06):
So I would get a three-year extended another
three-year extiry.
SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
Okay.
So But you're you're 24 years inat this point.
Yeah.
In 2001.
SPEAKER_04 (36:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
So what happens?
SPEAKER_04 (36:21):
So um we would pull our kids out of school the first
week or second week in Novemberbecause they're they're a
student.
Right.
And it's only review time forthe first two weeks after summer
break.
So we pull them out and takethem to Disney.
(36:44):
So it's September 2001, andwe're down in Disney.
SPEAKER_03 (36:51):
And we're going to go to Blizzard, because they got
the big slides, all thatwonderful stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (37:00):
Oh, yeah.
And so we're going to leaveabout nine o'clock on the TV.
SPEAKER_03 (37:06):
I say, Oh, burning buildings.
Let's go to let's go to thebeach.
So we went there.
And then about 10 30, 11o'clock, we get an announcement
overhead saying the world isclosed.
And I it's like you hear thisall over about people talking
(37:32):
aloud about build planescrashing buildings, the
Pentagon, Pennsylvania.
Right.
And so uh we went back to ourroom, stayed at the pool, and
I'm thinking, and it did.
(37:52):
So in 2001, my buddy uh SergeantCleveland got a gig in
Washington, D.C.
for three months.
All he did was edit PowerPoint.
These PowerPoints go to thePentagon, and they would see
(38:15):
what's happening.
That also in Kosovo.
So he came back.
He says, Glenn, you gotta dothis.
So I did.
I put in for it.
I got it.
I was there April, May, June.
(39:14):
So it was May, April, April,May.
Coming home in August.
It was fantastic.
Because you could see how thewar was progressing, how Hussef
was doing, and such.
That there for twelve hours.
(39:35):
And you make sure theinformation that's feeding from
the room next door from otherguards, what the guard is.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
So you really got like a good view of what was
happening.
SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
And I wanted to do again in 2003, but I turned down
because they didn't have enoughroom on base, so I got put up in
Georgetown.
(40:10):
Nothing wrong with that.
What happened is my kids got outof school and I can't visit for
about three weeks.
Uh-huh.
And then I came home in August.
And I tried to do that again in2003, but because of some errors
(40:37):
I made.
Right.
So we're getting to uh Decemberof 2000.
And so I'm into my computercareer.
I'm up to the point where I canrepair laptops, plays, re-image
the PCs, and help basic breakfix problems, people having
(41:03):
problems, logging on, and otherhands.
Right.
And I do about 40k, basicallymyself.
And another person we well, Iclo I close forty.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
So we'd have a little friendly competition.
SPEAKER_03 (41:27):
Something.
SPEAKER_01 (41:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:29):
And so I'm sitting there, it's after Christmas, and
my buddy, Sergeant Cleveland,calls at work.
Uh-huh.
(41:49):
And well, we were hourly then,so I told my super waves all
from the base.
I go, great.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (42:06):
Well, on unboked to me in my drill that day, in in
the guard, and I imagine otherservices, you don't have a
war-time job.
SPEAKER_03 (42:18):
You're not in the guard.
unknown (42:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (42:20):
Needed a wartime.
And so uh Mike Cleveland was hisfull name.
Uh he took me over to Intel andshowed me what his job was.
So I learned it in ten minutes.
Basically taking video,digitizing it, transmit over the
(42:45):
internet, analog to thisdigital.
And I go, yeah, yeah, noproblem.
10 minutes.
So um also unbeknownst to me, mybivim went to a two-week school
to learn what I did.
Right.
(43:06):
Knowledge of computers.
SPEAKER_04 (43:08):
So um I'm sitting there in the office with my
commander.
And he says, uh, Mike here tellsme you can do his job.
You picked it up pretty quick.
SPEAKER_03 (43:21):
Oh, yeah, no problem.
He says, Would you like to go toIraq?
I go, Okay.
Sure, why not?
So I volunteered to go there.
I'm 52 right now.
SPEAKER_04 (43:41):
Yeah, 52 going to Iraq with our one with the 127th
fighter squadron called the RedDevils.
SPEAKER_03 (43:52):
And twelve aircraft were deployed, such.
Um told my wife, Bill Glanak.
I was interested in being thatother guy on the other side of
uh World War II photos takingpictures.
(44:15):
Yeah.
But I wanted so not to throw Godin with me.
I prayed for a year at church,do this.
And I go.
SPEAKER_01 (44:29):
Well, I I find that when God answers a prayer, uh
you better you better moveforward.
SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
So I did that.
SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (44:38):
And uh we went to a Air Force Base, Columbia, South
Carolina, and went through aboutwhat we were mostly what Intel
was mostly there.
(44:59):
And they, you know, made commentpeople going to the green zone.
Baghdad said, careful.
Right.
Well, guess what?
When we were there, our base washit sixty out of thirty ninety
(45:20):
days.
Rockets, RPGs, orders.
They were bad shots.
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Right, thank goodness.
SPEAKER_04 (45:32):
They they they were bad shots.
I did have one uh rocket landmaybe 50 yards from me while I
was in all the quiet zone there,where we could go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (45:46):
Then the rocket hit and on the ground.
Last over.
SPEAKER_02 (45:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (45:56):
So uh basically my job there was taking digital
taking uh video tapes off of iSony Sony 8 recorders that are
in the F-16s.
Take those tapes, add a player,and I'd sit across from Intel,
(46:17):
the pilot would be next, and theIntel person says, Glenn, I need
uh 15 seconds.
Uh-huh.
So digitize it, my name, pilot'sname, date, mission number,
digitize it, then I turn around,upload it from the SIPRNet to uh
(46:42):
guitar.
So the job was 12 hours a day,90 days a week for the for the
three months I was there.
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
No, no timeout.
SPEAKER_03 (46:57):
Right?
SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
And so I would uh walk the half mile back.
SPEAKER_03 (47:02):
I got my full gear on, bulletproof vest, helmet.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:10):
Gloves, goggles, all the fun stuff, right?
SPEAKER_03 (47:12):
No, no, not at mop level yet.
SPEAKER_01 (47:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (47:16):
We did carry our gas.
SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you were there, you werethere for 90 days?
Yeah.
And then where from where didyou go from there?
Oh.
Okay.
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (47:29):
Uh saw a lot of interesting stuff on the tapes.
Uh-huh.
Touch.
Some of the bomb drops.
Apparently, one of my videos orhowever it did, somebody
released it to the net to uhYouTube.
unknown (47:52):
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (47:53):
Oh.
Just look up Lucia.
You'll see 30 seconds bomb beingreleased, then moved over
because people in the buildingmoved and were heading towards
the day tag.
(48:16):
Uh pilots can't take.
They have to there's groundcontrollers.
SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (48:24):
So um come home, and the big picture.
Mom and dad, and kids running upto their dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (48:39):
So I'm Colonel Bankstall was at my commander,
and I'm the last one there atthe welcome.
And the base failed to tell mywife.
SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_04 (48:53):
But she is on base.
Okay and she's shopping.
SPEAKER_01 (48:56):
Okay.
So she's nearby anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (48:59):
Yeah.
So hey, I asked her, can Iborrow your phone?
SPEAKER_03 (49:03):
So I go, uh, dear, I'm waiting.
So she comes over, kids are withdad and such, and uh such basic
off to put it back another 90days when leaving.
Both kids are hugging me.
(49:26):
Oh, yeah.
My eyes are just dreaming.
Get on the plane.
Right.
So after that, you get a fullmonth off.
And we went down.
Where else would you go?
SPEAKER_04 (49:45):
We stopped in at uh my mom and dad, my mom's farm
house.
They have a reunion at thattime.
SPEAKER_03 (49:55):
So we get to see the cousins.
This is 2000.
Oh.
So 2005 rolls around.
And I said, well, yeah.
And after 30 years in August2005, got out of the guard.
SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
Well, can you tell me?
I mean, that 30 years is a longtime to be to be there.
What was it like for you puttingon that uniform for the last
time?
How did that feel?
SPEAKER_04 (50:31):
Well, it it felt good.
But uh my personal opinion,after you're out, your uniform.
I I never was a person to dressup on Veterans Day and march
with your pedals there.
SPEAKER_03 (50:51):
Um after that, all the prestige hours gone.
Right.
From from you.
And you're a civilian.
So but I wouldn't have missed itfor the world.
No, no.
(51:12):
And it's my wife will say neverhad a midlife crisis.
Right.
Something important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, anyways, after thatcontinued working at Trinity.
(51:35):
I was really itching to getpromoted.
But I had a manager that wasbasically out there during the
60s protesting military.
He knew I was there.
Yeah.
And I never really got promotedthere.
(51:55):
When I left to go to photographyschool, he told me to my face
that I wouldn't even give apregnant six months off little
you.
Right.
You have to.
So um what I did is I startedputting in jobs at other places
(52:21):
in the system.
So I got a job at Detroit MercyHospital in Detroit.
And I guess it a little bit moremoney down the mortgage.
Right.
And I was pretty good there.
Then Trinity decided, well,we'll close Detroit Mercy.
(52:47):
So this is uh the during thegreat Wi-Fi.
So during that time, I had to bethere to midnight before the
clock over.
Oh yes, Y2K.
And nothing.
Right.
(53:07):
So, anyways, I'm closing downthe hospital, packing up the
computers and such.
And the HR called and said,Well, we can put you back over
in Ann Arbor.
I go, Well, I want to work atFarmington.
I'd rather quit than anythingelse.
(53:33):
All the noise in the hospital.
And so I started working there.
I got certified in repairingcomputers, uh, ordering parts
(53:55):
from them.
It was a discount compared tothem per buying it.
And got to know thousands ofpeople there repairing and such.
And then in 2020, uh, I wasgiven a box said, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:21):
I was time to retire is what they thought.
SPEAKER_04 (54:26):
Basically, they they cut back a few other other
people.
SPEAKER_03 (54:31):
Um it's interesting.
I have Lincoln edit, and and Ican see how other people just
moved on to other places in thehealth industry.
So what did you do when youleft?
Well, um, I've never been one tohave idle hands.
(54:56):
And occasionally your wife wantsyou out of the house.
SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
Because you're driving her crazy at this point,
right?
SPEAKER_04 (55:04):
So I've been a member of this place for 30
years, but only a member.
SPEAKER_03 (55:13):
And then towards um the end, uh we were doing server
routing and sorry, donatingequipment.
SPEAKER_01 (55:28):
Tim Nichols, Phil Kennedy were the team doing
that, and they said well, andfor people watching this, you
were at the um the MichiganFlight Museum, right?
Down by uh Willowrun Airport.
SPEAKER_04 (55:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (55:42):
Okay.
You started really volunteeringyour time here.
SPEAKER_04 (55:45):
Coming here, um, I would sit in that room I showed
you.
SPEAKER_03 (55:49):
Uh-huh.
And they would ask him, okay,well.
So I would I'd start doingthings, people would lose files
on the server, they would haveproblems scanning, have the same
thing I was doing, but not involume for the days.
(56:16):
So then got to do we used tohave different locations because
our 1940 hangar burnt down.
We were lost a lot of stuff.
(56:37):
Right.
A lot of world war.
The one thing we didn't lose wasthe membership of the computer
because they were havingproblems with it.
So the person took it home.
Next day the barn burned down.
Oh.
So that was lucky because weafter that we had a couple homes
(57:02):
last sandtop old building, andcame here after they caught it
and built all the delays back.
We had a flying B-17, flying B45, D-47, Huey helicopter.
(57:32):
So we had to tell our B-17, notbecause it was brokering,
getting our small inweight.
You still have your helicopter,though.
SPEAKER_04 (57:47):
We have the Huey, we have the D-47 and the B-5.
SPEAKER_03 (57:54):
They all go to air shows and they then do rides.
SPEAKER_01 (58:03):
Right.
My wife and I actually rode uhin the Huey at the Freedom River
uh event.
So we loved it.
SPEAKER_03 (58:11):
I just came out there to take pictures for the
museum.
Um they sold the museum, I guessthey got because it's a flying
and certified that year.
But the person that bought itwill have it disassembled,
(58:34):
redone.
Like it was brand new.
Wow.
Fully shipped it.
New Zealand.
So you've been volunteering herefor at least eleven years.
SPEAKER_01 (58:51):
Right, eleven years.
And um actually, when I talkedto you last week, you're you're
getting ready to move and you'llbe leaving the flight museum.
Um, how does that feel?
SPEAKER_03 (59:04):
Well, I guess it feels like um try.
Okay.
But happens.
Um lot of people here appreciatewhat I do.
Yeah.
You know, there's a hangar overthere, not far from us, and we
(59:26):
had to hook up internet there,but Tomcat says it'll be a
million dollars.
SPEAKER_04 (59:35):
We go, no.
So what we do is we have atransmitter on top of that, and
it links to it.
SPEAKER_03 (59:43):
They get their internet.
So that's one of the things I'mproud of.
Um when I got uh retired from nohandshake, no party, just out
the door with charity.
(01:00:06):
And uh they threw a party for melast week, which was fantastic,
more than I had with Trinity andsuch.
They're gonna have to findsomebody.
They have Tim Nichols, butbefore I came, he would come in
(01:00:27):
in the evening.
There's another guy here that Iwould love to talk to Tim do
that because he's a docent.
But it'll be different.
Um they do have Tima out there.
(01:00:54):
Everybody goes there.
Fantastic.
They have another consolidatedair.
I'll have to check them out.
They need any computer.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:13):
So when you so when you get out to Arizona, you're
not gonna, you're you're uhyou're still looking at uh at
that uh serving in in somecapacity.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:22):
Yeah, it's um I know too many people didn't.
Right.
And they're grave.
Gotta be busy.
Yeah, for sure.
You have to be busy, keep yourmind active, whatever you're
doing.
Yeah.
Um my kids, Brittany and Krista.
(01:01:45):
Krista is out in Arizona andbrother.
Um real quick, I met my wife atthe bowling act, like my yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:55):
We talked about that earlier, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:58):
And we've been married.
Congratulations.
So Polish half German, halfIrish.
And our serpents are 300.
unknown (01:02:19):
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:20):
So, anyways, um gotta be active doing stuff.
I have a lot of videos out thereof our trips.
That's called all of the well,where can people see your videos
if they want to see your videos?
SPEAKER_04 (01:02:42):
They look up Hawkeye161.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:46):
Hawkeye161, and that's your your YouTube name
channel name.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:51):
And uh the so Krista teaches Al graduated a math
degree, and now she's into doingstudents kindergarten but grade
(01:03:13):
school STEM classes, beinginterested in right.
My oldest, Brittany, uhgraduated from the Toledo
University as a chemicalengineer.
(01:03:33):
She had been working on theglass down there, and she has an
interest in the space program.
And so she went down to whereSandusky is as the world's
largest vacuum.
(01:03:56):
They had open house.
She's wandering around andtalked to someone saying, Hey,
you got hired.
Worked there about six weeksago.
Worked on the Orion spacecraftaround the moon.
(01:04:17):
And um she was able to Thorthropcalled her and said, Hey, got
stuff for ya.
You can come down here watchArtemis rocket.
We went down there, we gotcanceled twice because of
problems.
(01:04:38):
He got to go back the third timethere as well, but nowadays
great position he was in.
So she got that.
So Brittany's now teaching.
You want to see her?
Do yoga by beat on Facebook.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:58):
Okay.
So I gotta ask though, does shestill do impersonations of of uh
your other daughter being born?
SPEAKER_04 (01:05:06):
Uh no.
No, no.
Although we do have video of it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:11):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, and that has to come outonce in a while, right?
Yes.
Well, Glenn, we've covered a lotin the in the last hour.
We've talked about your yourlife and really your life of
service, all the really amazingthings that you've seen, simply,
you know, from the beginning ofcomputing to what it is today,
and uh you're getting ready forthat next chapter in your life.
(01:05:35):
Um, so I want I really have twoquestions left.
The first question is Is thereanything that we haven't talked
about that you still wanted totalk about?
Uh is my first question.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05:47):
Well, talk about my wife.
Yeah.
Uh Debbie Wilkowes.
Debbie Lorbes.
Uh 100% Polish and master of thekitchen.
She has a culinary degree years,and had a variety of different
(01:06:10):
jobs at the hospital.
She got tired of cooking, thenshe did eight years as an ER
escort at St.
Joe's Hospital.
And then she stopped doing that.
And for the last 15 techniques,she's uh she's done driving
(01:06:36):
people to the airport.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06:39):
So kind of works as a contractor to other but she
has her own people that willcall her.
So when she goes to Arizona, allof that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:54):
I get the feeling that she probably will uh do it
out be just fine.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06:59):
She'll be fine.
And she's already hinted thatshe may pick it up again, but
just drive that one person,they'll get a referral.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07:10):
Right.
Right.
The reason we're moving toArizona is we used to do a
three-month ride where we'd goto Florida, over to Pensacola,
then to Arizona.
SPEAKER_04 (01:07:28):
And we did it first time we did it, we did an
Airbnb, and we didn't reallylike where we were doing this
for a month.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07:40):
Then I found that this other house that was
fantastic was bigger, had abigger backyard, the pool.
And my wife likes to swim everyday when she can.
So uh back then after that, uh Igot to know who the manager was,
(01:08:09):
and she said, call me.
Save those Airbnbs.
So I did, and we did that forfour years, same house month.
And because we had looked atother houses, there's nother,
neither nor any of them we likedbecause they had a post-damp
(01:08:33):
backyard.
Right.
And so this year we were down inPetsacola, got the call from
her, says the owner says you canhave the first bid on the house.
(01:08:53):
Really?
The last few years because hehas medical.
So I go, Debbie, do it.
You want to do it?
So we started the process whilewe were in Petzcola.
We then had another houserenting in because it was
(01:09:23):
two-story and did have a pool,but so we did the VA loan
through the whole process.
Took a month.
So that's the house we're goingto.
(01:09:43):
Nice.
It wasn't like this house.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09:48):
So you know you know enough about it?
SPEAKER_04 (01:09:50):
You've been there and we know the area.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:09:54):
Her brother lives ten minutes from us, Queen's
Creek.
SPEAKER_03 (01:09:58):
Mm-hmm.
And um probably a year or two,my oldest will probably move out
there.
She'll have the family.
Yeah.
Nice.
So I will not move because of Idon't have any grandkids.
(01:10:20):
Right.
And people won't move becausethey have grandkids.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10:24):
So I think they're if they want to live other than
Michigan or well, it sounds likethat next chapter is gonna be
exciting for you.
I'll I'll I'll be interested touh hear how things are going.
SPEAKER_04 (01:10:42):
Well, I'll throw YouTube up there.
SPEAKER_03 (01:10:45):
I think but oh as another thing.
Uh I was originally a Baptistand I um since God answered me,
(01:11:10):
I'll become Catholic.
So um I was in a bomb shelterbecause we had the big siren
going on.
Yeah.
And the Catholic with me andsuch.
So I started attending Catholicservices there.
(01:11:33):
And then when I came back, Iwent to Chaddy.
unknown (01:11:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (01:11:40):
Right.
And so I I was lying to the kidswhere I was going at the time
something left out.
Um, I got a black belt andkarate.
So I was telling them I wasgoing to school.
Some different techniques.
Then when my baptism time werereally a little shocked.
(01:12:08):
Yeah, because we had made themgo catechism.
I had right, right.
So now now you're you'reCatholic.
Every Saturday, just like mywife.
She was born Catholic.
But yeah, go on Saturday becausethen you You don't have to get
(01:12:32):
up early.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:33):
Because this is a Saturday service, like in the
afternoon or about four or fiveo'clock, depending where you're
at.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:39):
So we we'll do that.
And uh that's incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:47):
Lots of great churches out in uh out in
Arizona too.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:50):
Yeah, we have one that we'll be going.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:53):
Well, good.
Good.
Well, that really brings me tothe final question for our
interview today, and that is forpeople listening to this years
from now, maybe a hundred yearsfrom now, um, what message would
you like to leave them with?
SPEAKER_03 (01:13:09):
Well, um, what I'd like to say is there's a person
on Jordan, and he did a videotalking about kids, and it kind
of fits me, and it also fits mytwo kids, where you have a time
(01:13:38):
frame until you're about twentyfour to learn a because you're
leaving stuff behind as a kid,you're you're not partying,
you're not doing stuff.
Like if you're um a plumber,electrician, you're learning a
(01:14:03):
that you can use, and you havethis narrow window for learning.
Once you're on the other side ofthat narrow window, you can do
the things that you doubt as akid, so you can go out and do
(01:14:27):
other things, including your jobthat you but you can do other
things.
And if you're a couch potato andyou're 30 years old still living
at home, there's a problem.
So my kids got out of the housequickly.
(01:14:51):
Both of them got jobs out ofcollege, they're both doing
fine.
Not calling dad or or mom, hey,I no, they're all self-confident
as such what they're doing.
So, like I said, my advice isthat your children should get
(01:15:19):
some skill to stop doing whatthey might have been sixteen or
seven.
When my daughter was sixteen,always wondered why she was
leaving early for high school.
Found out that set up the lamp.
(01:15:46):
And so the same way with Krista.
Wanted to teach you.
So she went to Grand Valley andgot her job by her connector.
Uh Debbie's relatives were butshe got a job.
(01:16:11):
Right.
So I'd encourage anyone whowants to be in the military to
join the air.
And of course, you have to havea good ASVAV score for that.
And um do what you're interestedin.
(01:16:33):
I originally wanted uhphotography art work at it.
Right.
I did, got it.
All right, but the other thing Iwould say about my photography
(01:16:54):
skills are good, but I neverreally could make a living at.
Right.
Do what you have to do so youcan do what you want to do,
right?
Basically.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17:10):
All right.
Well, Glenn, thanks for takingtime out this morning to sit and
talk with me.
I really appreciate it.
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