May 5, 2025 • 33 mins
From running a family farm at age 13 to saving lives under enemy fire in Vietnam, Jim Hock's journey exemplifies the resilience and quiet heroism of a generation. Born in Michigan in 1943 and adopted at age two, Jim's life took an unexpected turn when his draft notice arrived in 1966—just as he and his wife were settling into a new apartment, with boxes still unpacked.
Trained as a combat medic despite having studied business administration in college, Jim describes the heart-wrenching moment of saying goodbye to his wife before deploying: "I knew when I kissed her goodbye that I was never gonna see her again." This powerful certainty of his own death hangs over his entire Vietnam narrative, making his survival all the more poignant.
Jim's vivid recollections bring listeners into the chaos and courage of wartime medical service—from treating his first casualties under fire to rescuing soldiers from a burning ammunition dump. He shares bittersweet moments too: watching Bob Hope and Raquel Welch perform for the troops, receiving care packages from home, and the surreal instruction not to wear his uniform at the airport when returning home to avoid harassment from war protesters.
What makes Jim's story truly remarkable is how he transformed potential trauma into a full life after Vietnam. Returning to General Motors where he worked for 39 years, raising three children, and using his medical training to save lives in civilian settings—including once saving his own daughter from choking. Now celebrating 61 years of marriage, Jim leaves listeners with hard-earned wisdom: "Just feel lucky that you're in a country that you're free to do it. Follow your dreams. Don't give up."
Want to hear more stories of courage and resilience? Subscribe now and share this episode with someone who appreciates the sacrifices made by our veterans.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning.
Today is Monday, may 5th 2025.
We're talking with Jim Hock,who served in the United States
Army.
So good morning Jim, goodmorning, great to see you, Thank
you.
So we're going to start outeasy.
I'm just going to ask when andwhere were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I was born in Muskegon Michigan, and that was
in 1943.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Okay, so did you grow up in Muskegon 1943.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay, so did you grow up in Muskegon?
I was actually from a largefamily.
My mother and my real fatherseparated and I wound up being
adopted into another family.
My adoptive parents and Ibasically grew up around Belding
(00:49):
, michigan on a farm, and that'swhere I was basically raised
around.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Belding.
Okay, so were you just a babywhen you were adopted out.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I was probably about two years old.
My parents that adopted mecouldn't have any children and
they were neighbors to the ladythat had me and they she wanted
to have too many children totake care of, and one knows.
They wanted to adopt me andthey did.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So you got to go grow up on a farm?
Yes, I did.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It was a very interesting.
We had a lot of animals andstuff and when I was 13 years
old, my father got very sick andI did all the planting, all the
harvesting.
I ran that farm all by myself,13 years old.
Wow, my mother come out one day.
I was trying to change a plowshare and I was using some
(01:46):
language I probably shouldn'thave been.
She just turned around andwalked back into the house.
So if he's old enough to dothat, he's old enough to vent.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh, no doubt.
So you didn't have any otherbrothers and sisters at your
adoptive family?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
No, nobody.
I was an only child for them.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That's a lot for a 13-year-old kid.
It was yeah, but I can tell youhave a lot of pride in it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh yes, when I got to take my driver's license it was
no problem because I'd driveneverything you could think of
almost by that time.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And you could drive a stick shift too.
Yes, I could.
I always told my kids if youcan drive a stick shift, you can
drive anything.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That's right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So what kind of farming did you do?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It was just crop farming, basically, and we had
dairy cows and a lot ofdifferent animals and stuff.
So one day my dad was carryinga bucket full of eggs back from
the hen house.
We had a banny rooster, flewinto the bucket of eggs, broke
most of them.
Guess what we had for Sundaydinner Did it have a name.
(02:49):
My dad called him many names,but it was a Banny rooster.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Oh my gosh, Wow.
So you basically had to be theman of the house and kind of run
things.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, for that one year I did yeah.
Then my daddy did get better.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Uh-huh, yeah, came back and took over.
Was that hard for you for himto take over, since you had that
whole year kind of running ityour way?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think I was kind of relieved.
Yeah, I had other things Iwanted to do at that age.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, so you were in school.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Then you went to and other things I wanted to do at
that age.
Yeah, so you were in schoolthen.
Yes, it was a little countryschool.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Now, was that like a K-12 school then?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
K-8,.
I think it was yeah.
Then we went to high schoolfrom there.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Did you go to Belding High School?
Went to.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Belding High School.
Okay, and my wife at that timelived just down the road from us
.
We both had horses growing up.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
If you think about it .
I know kids today are like oh,horses, that's a lot of fun, but
that was kind of a necessity.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
It kind of was yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But you still got to have a good time.
Oh yes, so was there anythingin school that you really
enjoyed?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I enjoyed sports.
I participated in sports In 4-H.
We did that, so yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And what kinds of things did you do in 4-H?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Just mostly like you know what things farmers do have
shows for the animals andthings like that.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
All right, I do a few .
4-h shows myself at the countyfairs.
So it's always my daughtershowed horses, okay, so they
really enjoyed that, and so youmade it through school then, did
you?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
graduate.
Yeah, I graduated from Belding.
Unfortunately my wife, herfather, passed away as she was
in we were in eighth grade incountry school, and so her and
her family, they moved to Almawhere her mother's sister lived
(05:04):
and up by the.
Masonic Home that's where hermother's sister lived, and up by
the Masonic home that's whereher mother went to work, and so
we kind of dated back and forthbetween Belden and Alma.
Finally one day I says this iscosting too much money for gas.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Let's get married.
How romantic, that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, there was no cell phones and no email back
then.
No, not back then.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
no, Not at all, so yeah, so how old were you when?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
you got married.
Let's see, I was 64.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, 1964.
And you just had our 64thanniversary this year.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, congratulations .
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's amazing.
Well, congratulations, thankyou.
That's amazing, uh-huh yeah,especially with that romantic
ask.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah For her.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So you got married right away and then so 64, this
would have been right at thebeginning of Vietnam or kind of
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, I'm not sure if it was at the beginning or
because it was definitely goingon.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
We can hold on for a second.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Should I.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
If you want to you can go ahead and answer it, I
can Go ahead.
I can't reach it, I can edit it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, my phone's out of the way.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm sorry.
All right, hi.
This is McLaren Cardiologycalling for Linda, regarding
your next appointment with Dr.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
King, and I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It's okay, there we go.
This happens all the time, allthe time, okay, okay.
So we're talking about theVietnam War.
So you've graduated and you'remarried now.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And the war is going on.
So were you drafted.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Okay, yes, and the war is going on.
So were you drafted?
Okay, I was working at GeneralMotors at the time, full-time.
I would go into collegefull-time, my wife and I were
trying to have children andthings that just you know.
This was 1966 at this time andthings didn't happen.
(07:25):
And so I dropped down topart-time student one term
because my grade point I wastrying to get my grade point up,
and then we moved into anotherapartment.
We didn't even have the boxesunpacked.
I got a letter from the draftboard.
I had a report.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I was being drafted.
Wow, they don't waste any time.
That was in 1966, yep.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Uh-huh, yep.
So then I moved her up to Alma,where her mother and where she
used to live at that time, andthat's when I reported for my
training at Fort Knox.
Okay, I mean, it was a crushingblow, but anyway, that's when I
(08:10):
left for my basic training.
And once I got my basictraining done, that's when I
learned I was being sent to FortSam Houston to be a medic.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, I want to be a medic.
Okay, I want to ask a couplequestions, though, before we get
too far in.
And that is what was it likefor you in basic training?
You grew up on a farm, so youclearly weren't afraid of a hard
day's work no but what was itlike getting there and how was
that for you?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I think I just felt like freedom was taken away
because I couldn't do everythingI wanted to do at that time and
I was like I said I was goingto college and everything and it
was kind of a hard type of lifeto live with after being
(09:03):
married and being responsibleadults and everything, to be
treated like they have to treatsome people.
So one time we was out on apatrol and this guy ahead of me,
big, tall guy, kept getting outof step and the sergeant was
screaming at me kick him, kickhim.
I said so, I'm not gonna kickhim, he'll turn around and kill
(09:24):
me.
Oh, then the sergeant kicked meabout twice and I went down on
my knees.
Then I started kicking that guyahead of me.
Anyway, lived through it.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, lessons learned right, yes, yeah, so you
graduate basic training and thenyou head off to Fort Sam.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, Fort Sam Houston.
I was shocked because I thoughtof all the training I had.
I was in school, I was studyingbusiness administration.
I thought, well, maybe I'll getan office job.
Well, that didn't work.
I felt imbued.
I still think they thought well, he's going to college, he's
smart enough to be a medic and Ithink that's part of the reason
(10:07):
I got there.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So this whole experience so far, everything's
been chosen for you.
You haven't really had anychoices, that's right.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And I was, like I said, I was very apprehensive
about this because I knew medicsthat the enemy would shoot
somebody and wait for somebodyto come out and help them.
That would be their next target.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Right, right.
So what was Fort Sam Houstonlike for you?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh, it was very interesting.
I mean, obviously I learned alot of things that I used for
the rest of my life.
Actually I helped save livesafter I got out of the service
too, from the training that Iused for the rest of my life.
Actually I helped save livesafter I got out of the service
too, from the training that Ihad.
So anyway, but I got out of the.
After my medical training Ifound out I was going to the 1st
(10:58):
Infantry Division as a combatmedic and I was very scared.
So anyway, I said I had acouple of weeks to leave before
I left for Vietnam.
And I will never forget my wife.
She's standing on the runway,brown coat for a collar, and I
knew when I kissed her goodbyethat I was never gonna see her
(11:19):
again.
I just knew it yeah so it was.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
It was awful how did you deal with that?
Because you had it's like, it'snot like, you have a choice,
you have to go.
No, but you're terrified all atthe same time.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I said, like I said, I could still see her as I
looked out on the window of theairplane and away we went.
Yeah, it was a long, longflight to Vietnam.
We landed at Ben Hoa Airportand it was nighttime.
They had us pull all the shadesdown on the windows.
We was coming in for a landingand they kept high altitude when
(11:56):
we landed it was like we took anose dive into the to the
runway to avoid enemy fire.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
good, old combat landing.
I think yeah, definitely was acombat landing yeah so yeah, and
yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then it was after we stayed, got landed, we was
given our unit assignments and Ifound out that I was going to
the 1st Infantry Division and Iwas assigned to the 1st and 7th
Artillery, which was 105howitzers.
And I said for the first time Ifelt a glimmer of hope that I
(12:30):
might get home alive, as Iwasn't going to an infantry unit
but was in support of them.
So then it wasn't long after Igot into Vietnam that one of our
medics got wounded and I had togo out to the file to replace
(12:51):
him and he was a big, tall guyand he took took a lot of
shrapnel in his back.
I don't know if I would havesurvived had it been.
You know my thinking all thatright and that's when the first
casualties I had to work on wasthe worst I had the whole year I
was there.
It was an artilleryman.
(13:12):
He was on his second tour inVietnam.
He was carving his initialsinto a 105 Howitzer with a
screwdriver and a hammer and itexploded, injured him and two
others.
And he exploded, injured himand two others, and when I got
there they were both.
(13:35):
Everybody was yelling for me tohelp them and they all bled
from their waist up to theirhelmet, because we had flag
vests but nobody wore them.
Right we had flag vests butnobody wore them Right, you know
Right.
And so, anyway, the one guy, hehad his broken arm.
He had two spots of broken armwhen I was hanging out.
(14:00):
It was just bad and, like Isaid, I felt like I was the most
inadequate medic in the worldat that point in time and I was
trying to do what I was trainedfor and a person kept getting in
my way.
I told him to stay out of myway and I did not know.
There was a field hospital justdown the road from us.
(14:20):
After I told him to get out ofmy way, he told me that he was a
doctor and so we workedtogether, got the injured out,
airlifted to another hospitaland anyway, afterwards he
started talking to me and toldme all the things that I did
good, said I did a good job, andhe actually gave me the
(14:43):
confidence that I needed at thatpoint.
That got me through that restof the year and so we spent
about nine months of the wholeyear out in the field.
We'd go out and we'd go back tobase camp once in a while to
just get rearmed and suppliesand stuff, and so, anyway, zeon
(15:08):
was our base camp.
That's where we went back.
So, anyway, zeon was our basecamp.
That's where we went back andapparently my performance with
my first casualties impressedthe doctor I worked for, as I
was promoted to a spec fivespecialist and I only had 11
months in the Army, that'spretty quick.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, that was quick.
You must have done something,right.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, and I had one medic who worked for me who was
what they called a conscientiousobjector yes they didn't
believe in the war and refusedto carry weapons.
However, he was drafted, heanswered his country's call and
he was a very good medic and so,and I'll never forget, if we
were set near a village atnighttime, it was fairly easy to
(15:51):
tell if we were going to gethit that night, because all the
lights in the village would beon.
We almost knew that somethingwas going to happen, and so we
had tents to stay in as well.
We had bunkers to get into.
If we did come under attack Onenight, it was we had set up and
(16:13):
we were told we had to get outof the area we was at.
So we had to go reset up againand I was so tired I slept in a
bunker with my head actuallylaying in a puddle of water.
I never would sleep real welluntil I heard the cooks making
noise, getting breakfast.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Then that's when.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I could fall back asleep and one of our worst
attacks happened when someVietnamese women sent an ammo
dump on fire in Lai Kei and Imean there was explosions all
over the place and I saw themcarry out.
(16:51):
One of the women who was killedand set to fire she had a water
blister on her back thatcovered putting all of her bad.
She was dead and I knew therewas people in the ammo dump
finally convinced the MPs to letme and another medic to enter
(17:11):
into the ammo dump area and so,even though things were still
still burning, we followed inand found some men in a bunker
who were afraid to come out.
I finally told the sergeant Isaid get these guys out of here
and get them safe.
And they got out and they allsurvived and I was put in by my
(17:33):
sergeant for that action for aSilver Star award.
But he was just getting readyto retire from the Army and I
saw the paperwork but somehow itgot lost and it never happened.
Yeah, that happens, yeah, so andwe did have some fun times.
I'll never forget.
I saw Bob Hope Christmas show.
He and Raquel Welch and BarbaraMcNair were on the stage.
(17:56):
I remember Barbara McNairsinging a song.
I Am a Woman.
Like I said, he doubted amongthe 200 GIs looking on the stage
.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What about Raquel Welch?
She was quite something.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh yes, they were both beautiful.
Then one other time was back inour base camp and we had a
barracks brawl.
Somebody hit me hard.
I was lying on the floor and Icouldn't move, but I could hear
what was going on.
I heard somebody yell out goget the medic.
Somebody yelled out he is themedic.
Oh no, what was the?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
cause of the brawl, you know I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Everybody got bad.
Everybody was drinking too much.
You know, after spending weeksout in the field anyway, blowing
off some steam and beating upthe medic right I don't know.
I always enjoyed getting lettersfrom home.
Linda and I would send littletape things back.
(18:55):
We'd send tapes back home toeach other, and so one day
Saigon was coming out of afierce attack.
One time I went to a store inBedouin, bought a set of china
dinnerware which I sent home ona ship.
Not one piece got chipped oranything.
It came through perfect soanyway.
(19:18):
And then one day I was in ourmedical building when I heard a
helicopter approaching and allof a sudden I heard an abnormal
noise, an explosion.
And what happened?
The rotor came off, thehelicopter, cut the back end of
it off and it fell right intothe building next to us and the
people in the building.
(19:39):
They survived, but everyone onthe helicopter were killed, and
there were three people on thathelicopter that had their
suitcases and was catching aride to the airport to come home
because their tour was done.
They were all killed, and soI'll never forget it because
their tour was done.
(19:59):
They were all killed, and soI'll never forget.
As my tour was almost done, Ihad six months left to go to the
Army.
They said if I extended therethree months in Vietnam, I could
get out early.
And I said I don't want to stayhere three more minutes, get me
on a plane to come home.
And so, anyway, when I wasgetting ready to come home, I
was astounded that we were toldnot to wear our uniform to the
(20:22):
airport, as protesters wouldcall us baby killers, spit and
throw things at us, and I justnever could.
I just never understood that.
Anyway, my last assignment inthe Army was at Fort Hamilton in
Brooklyn, new York.
It was a chaplain's school baseand my wife came out with me.
(20:44):
We had an enjoyable experience,as we got a lot of free tickets
to the Broadway plays andbaseball games, and I don't know
, I just feel so blessed to havemade it home.
As a medic, my medical traininghas helped me save other lives
over the years.
One was my daughter at one timewho was choking, and so that's
(21:07):
pretty much it.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So did she show up in the brown coat with the fur
collar when you saw her again,your wife.
When I came home.
Yeah, I was just curious.
I don't remember.
You were just probably so happyto be home.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was.
Yeah, it doesn't even matter.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So how many kids did?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
you have.
Well, afterwards we adopted ourfirst daughter, uh-huh.
Then we had two of our own,uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So three children all together.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Three all together.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, children all together, three all together.
So I'd like to talk a littlebit about what you did after you
got home, if that's alright.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Okay, well, fortunately, with the war going
on in GM and stuff, I got tokeep my seniority kept going on
there and so I went back and Igot an associate degree and I
just didn't, I don't know.
I just didn't have the urge togo to school after I got back as
much as I did before, because Ihad a good job at GM.
(22:04):
It was a real good payout and Ihad a lot of good experiences
there.
One time I was responsible fortrying out a new engine assembly
line in Italy and so I was incharge of getting the planes,
all the parts, over there.
And we got over there and waswaiting for the parts to be
(22:27):
delivered at where we were at,but there was a soccer game
going on and these two Italians,they, didn't want to miss the
soccer game, so they took myplane to the wrong airport and
then I had to truck everythingfrom the airport back to the
place where we were.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
They have their priorities over there, right?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yes, they do, yes, they do so anyway, I had some
good, very good experienceworking for GM.
Like I said, I had 39 years inwhen I retired, nine years in
when I retired and when we gotback, this is where we finally
bought our first house righthere, and we were the third
(23:05):
house out here at the time, andso we love it out here And-.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So you lived here in this house since oh yeah, really
since you got back, yeah,pretty much, yeah, wow so yeah,
this house was pretty expensiveback then.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It was $17,000.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I remember when I bought my first house, my
father-in-law almost lost hismind because it was just so
expensive.
But you know, that's how itworks right, that's right,
absolutely.
The world keeps on turning itdoes it does so can you tell me
a little bit about your childrenand what they're doing now?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Well, my one child she lives up by Grayling and she
works up there.
She's divorced.
In fact, unfortunately, allthree of my kids are divorced.
My next daughter she works atthe Red Cross here in Lansing
and she's been there for many,many years and she's with a love
(24:10):
of her life.
Right now they're not marriedbut he's been very, very ill so
she's working hard to supporthim.
And our son he lives near thehigh school here in Portland.
He works for Gordon's Food inBrighton but he loves living
here so he drives back and forthevery day that's a drive so,
(24:32):
but between that we got a lot ofgreat grandkids and great
grandkids and we just love them.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
That's great.
And you said you justcelebrated your 61st anniversary
.
So things seem to be turningout for you.
Oh yes, I was curious Did youever find or meet up with any of
your siblings from your birthmother?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I had one sister, my birth mother.
When I was born, her husbandwas in the service in World War
II.
He was overseas.
Come home he had a surprise.
I was there, and so my firstname was Leffering.
Well, he forgave her andadopted me to his name, which
(25:22):
was Goodwin.
He got deployed again and whenhe came home I had another baby
sister and that was the end ofthat.
So that's when they separatedand so that's when I got adopted
to my third name.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Hock Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I have more last names than a lot of ladies.
Yes, Anyway but one of thesisters, my youngest other
sister.
She got adopted out too and shedied of cancer.
One of my other half-sistersknew my mother and dad knew
where I was at.
(25:59):
So she said we're going to findJim and they found me and so I
kind of had some relationshipwith them.
But that was kind of adifferent family.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
And anyway, then, since that sister passed away, I
haven't really had any contactwith them, but it was quite an
experience.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Oh, I'll bet.
And also you served in theMichigan National Guard for a
while.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yes, I served over there in Grand Ledge and I
served in the medical departmentbecause I knew my training
would get me a good job overthere and I enjoyed it for quite
a while.
But after a while, betweenworking overtime and everything,
I just became a little bit toomuch.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
So did you go to Camp Grayling for training when?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
you were there, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So was this in the 70s?
Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
That's about I think.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, it was in the 70s yeah, oh, okay, so the 1970s
Can you?
I'm just curious.
I served in the National Guardmyself, and a lot of people I
interview served in the Guard.
What was it like in the 70s toserve in the National Guard?
Can you talk a little bit aboutjust some of your experiences
there?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Oh, I don't know.
I mean, I don't remember awhole lot about it.
I enjoyed the summer camps,enjoyed the friendship, the
camaraderie that you have.
And then, like I said, I hadone neighbor that was a
helicopter pilot in Vietnam.
He was over there.
So we made a lot of friends andstuff and like I said, I had
(27:42):
one neighbor that was ahelicopter pilot in Vietnam.
He was over there.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
So we made a lot of friends and stuff, a lot of
shared experience, that kind ofthing.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Was there anything that we haven't talked about
that you'd like to talk about?
No, I don't know.
I'm just worried about the waythings are going on in the world
today and I don't know, I'mjust worried about the way
things are going on in the worldtoday.
Uh-huh and I don't know.
I just can't figure out what'sgoing on in the world today, a
lot of people I talk to feelthat way.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Absolutely and I always felt all the lies that
were lost in Vietnam.
You know that we didn't win thewar.
I always felt because theydidn't let us you don't beat
somebody when you wait for themto come into your own area I
always felt if we'd have wentnorth and we could.
(28:28):
I don't know if that would havebeen right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah.
But, things might have beendifferent.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Oh yeah, I had a neighbor boy that I grew up with
.
He was killed in Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
So what was it like?
So you served, you were inVietnam, you came home, you kind
of went on about your life andthen we left Vietnam and we
didn't really leave under greatcircumstances.
What was that like for you tokind of see that happen after
having been there?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Again, I just felt what a waste of 56,000 lives.
They're gone.
There's nothing you can doabout them, right?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
A lot of young men.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yes, there was.
I felt just so lucky that Icould have been one of them.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah Well, like you said, when you were getting on
the plane, you felt prettycertain that you weren't going
to come back.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, but you did that's right.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, but I did it.
It was hard.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, well, and here you are.
You had a great career.
You raised a family.
You've been married to yourwife for a good long time,
living out here in Portland.
By the way, it was a beautifuldrive out here.
The only really question I haveleft is for someone listening
(29:52):
to your story years from nowwhat message would you like to
leave for them?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Just feel lucky that you're in a country that you're
free to do it.
Follow your dreams.
Just keep following your dreams.
Don't give up.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
That's what you did, right?
Yep, all right.
Well, thanks for taking timeout on a Monday morning to talk
with me, jeff.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Thank you for being here, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
You're welcome.
Good morning.
Today is Monday, may 5th 2025.
We're talking with Jim Hock,who served in the United States
Army.
So good morning Jim, goodmorning, great to see you, Thank
you.
So we're going to start outeasy.
I'm just going to ask when andwhere were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I was born in Muskegon Michigan, and that was
in 1943.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Okay, so did you grow up in Muskegon 1943.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay, so did you grow up in Muskegon?
I was actually from a largefamily.
My mother and my real fatherseparated and I wound up being
adopted into another family.
My adoptive parents and Ibasically grew up around Belding
(00:49):
, michigan on a farm, and that'swhere I was basically raised
around.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Belding.
Okay, so were you just a babywhen you were adopted out.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I was probably about two years old.
My parents that adopted mecouldn't have any children and
they were neighbors to the ladythat had me and they she wanted
to have too many children totake care of, and one knows.
They wanted to adopt me andthey did.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So you got to go grow up on a farm?
Yes, I did.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It was a very interesting.
We had a lot of animals andstuff and when I was 13 years
old, my father got very sick andI did all the planting, all the
harvesting.
I ran that farm all by myself,13 years old.
Wow, my mother come out one day.
I was trying to change a plowshare and I was using some
(01:46):
language I probably shouldn'thave been.
She just turned around andwalked back into the house.
So if he's old enough to dothat, he's old enough to vent.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh, no doubt.
So you didn't have any otherbrothers and sisters at your
adoptive family?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
No, nobody.
I was an only child for them.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That's a lot for a 13-year-old kid.
It was yeah, but I can tell youhave a lot of pride in it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh yes, when I got to take my driver's license it was
no problem because I'd driveneverything you could think of
almost by that time.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And you could drive a stick shift too.
Yes, I could.
I always told my kids if youcan drive a stick shift, you can
drive anything.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That's right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So what kind of farming did you do?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It was just crop farming, basically, and we had
dairy cows and a lot ofdifferent animals and stuff.
So one day my dad was carryinga bucket full of eggs back from
the hen house.
We had a banny rooster, flewinto the bucket of eggs, broke
most of them.
Guess what we had for Sundaydinner Did it have a name.
(02:49):
My dad called him many names,but it was a Banny rooster.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Oh my gosh, Wow.
So you basically had to be theman of the house and kind of run
things.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, for that one year I did yeah.
Then my daddy did get better.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Uh-huh, yeah, came back and took over.
Was that hard for you for himto take over, since you had that
whole year kind of running ityour way?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think I was kind of relieved.
Yeah, I had other things Iwanted to do at that age.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, so you were in school.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Then you went to and other things I wanted to do at
that age.
Yeah, so you were in schoolthen.
Yes, it was a little countryschool.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Now, was that like a K-12 school then?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
K-8,.
I think it was yeah.
Then we went to high schoolfrom there.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Did you go to Belding High School?
Went to.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Belding High School.
Okay, and my wife at that timelived just down the road from us
.
We both had horses growing up.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
If you think about it .
I know kids today are like oh,horses, that's a lot of fun, but
that was kind of a necessity.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
It kind of was yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But you still got to have a good time.
Oh yes, so was there anythingin school that you really
enjoyed?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I enjoyed sports.
I participated in sports In 4-H.
We did that, so yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And what kinds of things did you do in 4-H?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Just mostly like you know what things farmers do have
shows for the animals andthings like that.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
All right, I do a few .
4-h shows myself at the countyfairs.
So it's always my daughtershowed horses, okay, so they
really enjoyed that, and so youmade it through school then, did
you?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
graduate.
Yeah, I graduated from Belding.
Unfortunately my wife, herfather, passed away as she was
in we were in eighth grade incountry school, and so her and
her family, they moved to Almawhere her mother's sister lived
(05:04):
and up by the.
Masonic Home that's where hermother's sister lived, and up by
the Masonic home that's whereher mother went to work, and so
we kind of dated back and forthbetween Belden and Alma.
Finally one day I says this iscosting too much money for gas.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Let's get married.
How romantic, that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, there was no cell phones and no email back
then.
No, not back then.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
no, Not at all, so yeah, so how old were you when?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
you got married.
Let's see, I was 64.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, 1964.
And you just had our 64thanniversary this year.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, congratulations .
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's amazing.
Well, congratulations, thankyou.
That's amazing, uh-huh yeah,especially with that romantic
ask.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah For her.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So you got married right away and then so 64, this
would have been right at thebeginning of Vietnam or kind of
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, I'm not sure if it was at the beginning or
because it was definitely goingon.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
We can hold on for a second.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Should I.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
If you want to you can go ahead and answer it, I
can Go ahead.
I can't reach it, I can edit it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, my phone's out of the way.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm sorry.
All right, hi.
This is McLaren Cardiologycalling for Linda, regarding
your next appointment with Dr.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
King, and I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It's okay, there we go.
This happens all the time, allthe time, okay, okay.
So we're talking about theVietnam War.
So you've graduated and you'remarried now.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And the war is going on.
So were you drafted.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Okay, yes, and the war is going on.
So were you drafted?
Okay, I was working at GeneralMotors at the time, full-time.
I would go into collegefull-time, my wife and I were
trying to have children andthings that just you know.
This was 1966 at this time andthings didn't happen.
(07:25):
And so I dropped down topart-time student one term
because my grade point I wastrying to get my grade point up,
and then we moved into anotherapartment.
We didn't even have the boxesunpacked.
I got a letter from the draftboard.
I had a report.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I was being drafted.
Wow, they don't waste any time.
That was in 1966, yep.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Uh-huh, yep.
So then I moved her up to Alma,where her mother and where she
used to live at that time, andthat's when I reported for my
training at Fort Knox.
Okay, I mean, it was a crushingblow, but anyway, that's when I
(08:10):
left for my basic training.
And once I got my basictraining done, that's when I
learned I was being sent to FortSam Houston to be a medic.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, I want to be a medic.
Okay, I want to ask a couplequestions, though, before we get
too far in.
And that is what was it likefor you in basic training?
You grew up on a farm, so youclearly weren't afraid of a hard
day's work no but what was itlike getting there and how was
that for you?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I think I just felt like freedom was taken away
because I couldn't do everythingI wanted to do at that time and
I was like I said I was goingto college and everything and it
was kind of a hard type of lifeto live with after being
(09:03):
married and being responsibleadults and everything, to be
treated like they have to treatsome people.
So one time we was out on apatrol and this guy ahead of me,
big, tall guy, kept getting outof step and the sergeant was
screaming at me kick him, kickhim.
I said so, I'm not gonna kickhim, he'll turn around and kill
(09:24):
me.
Oh, then the sergeant kicked meabout twice and I went down on
my knees.
Then I started kicking that guyahead of me.
Anyway, lived through it.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, lessons learned right, yes, yeah, so you
graduate basic training and thenyou head off to Fort Sam.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, Fort Sam Houston.
I was shocked because I thoughtof all the training I had.
I was in school, I was studyingbusiness administration.
I thought, well, maybe I'll getan office job.
Well, that didn't work.
I felt imbued.
I still think they thought well, he's going to college, he's
smart enough to be a medic and Ithink that's part of the reason
(10:07):
I got there.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So this whole experience so far, everything's
been chosen for you.
You haven't really had anychoices, that's right.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And I was, like I said, I was very apprehensive
about this because I knew medicsthat the enemy would shoot
somebody and wait for somebodyto come out and help them.
That would be their next target.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Right, right.
So what was Fort Sam Houstonlike for you?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh, it was very interesting.
I mean, obviously I learned alot of things that I used for
the rest of my life.
Actually I helped save livesafter I got out of the service
too, from the training that Iused for the rest of my life.
Actually I helped save livesafter I got out of the service
too, from the training that Ihad.
So anyway, but I got out of the.
After my medical training Ifound out I was going to the 1st
(10:58):
Infantry Division as a combatmedic and I was very scared.
So anyway, I said I had acouple of weeks to leave before
I left for Vietnam.
And I will never forget my wife.
She's standing on the runway,brown coat for a collar, and I
knew when I kissed her goodbyethat I was never gonna see her
(11:19):
again.
I just knew it yeah so it was.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
It was awful how did you deal with that?
Because you had it's like, it'snot like, you have a choice,
you have to go.
No, but you're terrified all atthe same time.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I said, like I said, I could still see her as I
looked out on the window of theairplane and away we went.
Yeah, it was a long, longflight to Vietnam.
We landed at Ben Hoa Airportand it was nighttime.
They had us pull all the shadesdown on the windows.
We was coming in for a landingand they kept high altitude when
(11:56):
we landed it was like we took anose dive into the to the
runway to avoid enemy fire.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
good, old combat landing.
I think yeah, definitely was acombat landing yeah so yeah, and
yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then it was after we stayed, got landed, we was
given our unit assignments and Ifound out that I was going to
the 1st Infantry Division and Iwas assigned to the 1st and 7th
Artillery, which was 105howitzers.
And I said for the first time Ifelt a glimmer of hope that I
(12:30):
might get home alive, as Iwasn't going to an infantry unit
but was in support of them.
So then it wasn't long after Igot into Vietnam that one of our
medics got wounded and I had togo out to the file to replace
(12:51):
him and he was a big, tall guyand he took took a lot of
shrapnel in his back.
I don't know if I would havesurvived had it been.
You know my thinking all thatright and that's when the first
casualties I had to work on wasthe worst I had the whole year I
was there.
It was an artilleryman.
(13:12):
He was on his second tour inVietnam.
He was carving his initialsinto a 105 Howitzer with a
screwdriver and a hammer and itexploded, injured him and two
others.
And he exploded, injured himand two others, and when I got
there they were both.
(13:35):
Everybody was yelling for me tohelp them and they all bled
from their waist up to theirhelmet, because we had flag
vests but nobody wore them.
Right we had flag vests butnobody wore them Right, you know
Right.
And so, anyway, the one guy, hehad his broken arm.
He had two spots of broken armwhen I was hanging out.
(14:00):
It was just bad and, like Isaid, I felt like I was the most
inadequate medic in the worldat that point in time and I was
trying to do what I was trainedfor and a person kept getting in
my way.
I told him to stay out of myway and I did not know.
There was a field hospital justdown the road from us.
(14:20):
After I told him to get out ofmy way, he told me that he was a
doctor and so we workedtogether, got the injured out,
airlifted to another hospitaland anyway, afterwards he
started talking to me and toldme all the things that I did
good, said I did a good job, andhe actually gave me the
(14:43):
confidence that I needed at thatpoint.
That got me through that restof the year and so we spent
about nine months of the wholeyear out in the field.
We'd go out and we'd go back tobase camp once in a while to
just get rearmed and suppliesand stuff, and so, anyway, zeon
(15:08):
was our base camp.
That's where we went back.
So, anyway, zeon was our basecamp.
That's where we went back andapparently my performance with
my first casualties impressedthe doctor I worked for, as I
was promoted to a spec fivespecialist and I only had 11
months in the Army, that'spretty quick.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, that was quick.
You must have done something,right.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, and I had one medic who worked for me who was
what they called a conscientiousobjector yes they didn't
believe in the war and refusedto carry weapons.
However, he was drafted, heanswered his country's call and
he was a very good medic and so,and I'll never forget, if we
were set near a village atnighttime, it was fairly easy to
(15:51):
tell if we were going to gethit that night, because all the
lights in the village would beon.
We almost knew that somethingwas going to happen, and so we
had tents to stay in as well.
We had bunkers to get into.
If we did come under attack Onenight, it was we had set up and
(16:13):
we were told we had to get outof the area we was at.
So we had to go reset up againand I was so tired I slept in a
bunker with my head actuallylaying in a puddle of water.
I never would sleep real welluntil I heard the cooks making
noise, getting breakfast.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Then that's when.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I could fall back asleep and one of our worst
attacks happened when someVietnamese women sent an ammo
dump on fire in Lai Kei and Imean there was explosions all
over the place and I saw themcarry out.
(16:51):
One of the women who was killedand set to fire she had a water
blister on her back thatcovered putting all of her bad.
She was dead and I knew therewas people in the ammo dump
finally convinced the MPs to letme and another medic to enter
(17:11):
into the ammo dump area and so,even though things were still
still burning, we followed inand found some men in a bunker
who were afraid to come out.
I finally told the sergeant Isaid get these guys out of here
and get them safe.
And they got out and they allsurvived and I was put in by my
(17:33):
sergeant for that action for aSilver Star award.
But he was just getting readyto retire from the Army and I
saw the paperwork but somehow itgot lost and it never happened.
Yeah, that happens, yeah, so andwe did have some fun times.
I'll never forget.
I saw Bob Hope Christmas show.
He and Raquel Welch and BarbaraMcNair were on the stage.
(17:56):
I remember Barbara McNairsinging a song.
I Am a Woman.
Like I said, he doubted amongthe 200 GIs looking on the stage
.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What about Raquel Welch?
She was quite something.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh yes, they were both beautiful.
Then one other time was back inour base camp and we had a
barracks brawl.
Somebody hit me hard.
I was lying on the floor and Icouldn't move, but I could hear
what was going on.
I heard somebody yell out goget the medic.
Somebody yelled out he is themedic.
Oh no, what was the?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
cause of the brawl, you know I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Everybody got bad.
Everybody was drinking too much.
You know, after spending weeksout in the field anyway, blowing
off some steam and beating upthe medic right I don't know.
I always enjoyed getting lettersfrom home.
Linda and I would send littletape things back.
(18:55):
We'd send tapes back home toeach other, and so one day
Saigon was coming out of afierce attack.
One time I went to a store inBedouin, bought a set of china
dinnerware which I sent home ona ship.
Not one piece got chipped oranything.
It came through perfect soanyway.
(19:18):
And then one day I was in ourmedical building when I heard a
helicopter approaching and allof a sudden I heard an abnormal
noise, an explosion.
And what happened?
The rotor came off, thehelicopter, cut the back end of
it off and it fell right intothe building next to us and the
people in the building.
(19:39):
They survived, but everyone onthe helicopter were killed, and
there were three people on thathelicopter that had their
suitcases and was catching aride to the airport to come home
because their tour was done.
They were all killed, and soI'll never forget it because
their tour was done.
(19:59):
They were all killed, and soI'll never forget.
As my tour was almost done, Ihad six months left to go to the
Army.
They said if I extended therethree months in Vietnam, I could
get out early.
And I said I don't want to stayhere three more minutes, get me
on a plane to come home.
And so, anyway, when I wasgetting ready to come home, I
was astounded that we were toldnot to wear our uniform to the
(20:22):
airport, as protesters wouldcall us baby killers, spit and
throw things at us, and I justnever could.
I just never understood that.
Anyway, my last assignment inthe Army was at Fort Hamilton in
Brooklyn, new York.
It was a chaplain's school baseand my wife came out with me.
(20:44):
We had an enjoyable experience,as we got a lot of free tickets
to the Broadway plays andbaseball games, and I don't know
, I just feel so blessed to havemade it home.
As a medic, my medical traininghas helped me save other lives
over the years.
One was my daughter at one timewho was choking, and so that's
(21:07):
pretty much it.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So did she show up in the brown coat with the fur
collar when you saw her again,your wife.
When I came home.
Yeah, I was just curious.
I don't remember.
You were just probably so happyto be home.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was.
Yeah, it doesn't even matter.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So how many kids did?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
you have.
Well, afterwards we adopted ourfirst daughter, uh-huh.
Then we had two of our own,uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So three children all together.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Three all together.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, children all together, three all together.
So I'd like to talk a littlebit about what you did after you
got home, if that's alright.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Okay, well, fortunately, with the war going
on in GM and stuff, I got tokeep my seniority kept going on
there and so I went back and Igot an associate degree and I
just didn't, I don't know.
I just didn't have the urge togo to school after I got back as
much as I did before, because Ihad a good job at GM.
(22:04):
It was a real good payout and Ihad a lot of good experiences
there.
One time I was responsible fortrying out a new engine assembly
line in Italy and so I was incharge of getting the planes,
all the parts, over there.
And we got over there and waswaiting for the parts to be
(22:27):
delivered at where we were at,but there was a soccer game
going on and these two Italians,they, didn't want to miss the
soccer game, so they took myplane to the wrong airport and
then I had to truck everythingfrom the airport back to the
place where we were.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
They have their priorities over there, right?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yes, they do, yes, they do so anyway, I had some
good, very good experienceworking for GM.
Like I said, I had 39 years inwhen I retired, nine years in
when I retired and when we gotback, this is where we finally
bought our first house righthere, and we were the third
(23:05):
house out here at the time, andso we love it out here And-.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So you lived here in this house since oh yeah, really
since you got back, yeah,pretty much, yeah, wow so yeah,
this house was pretty expensiveback then.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It was $17,000.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I remember when I bought my first house, my
father-in-law almost lost hismind because it was just so
expensive.
But you know, that's how itworks right, that's right,
absolutely.
The world keeps on turning itdoes it does so can you tell me
a little bit about your childrenand what they're doing now?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Well, my one child she lives up by Grayling and she
works up there.
She's divorced.
In fact, unfortunately, allthree of my kids are divorced.
My next daughter she works atthe Red Cross here in Lansing
and she's been there for many,many years and she's with a love
(24:10):
of her life.
Right now they're not marriedbut he's been very, very ill so
she's working hard to supporthim.
And our son he lives near thehigh school here in Portland.
He works for Gordon's Food inBrighton but he loves living
here so he drives back and forthevery day that's a drive so,
(24:32):
but between that we got a lot ofgreat grandkids and great
grandkids and we just love them.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
That's great.
And you said you justcelebrated your 61st anniversary
.
So things seem to be turningout for you.
Oh yes, I was curious Did youever find or meet up with any of
your siblings from your birthmother?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I had one sister, my birth mother.
When I was born, her husbandwas in the service in World War
II.
He was overseas.
Come home he had a surprise.
I was there, and so my firstname was Leffering.
Well, he forgave her andadopted me to his name, which
(25:22):
was Goodwin.
He got deployed again and whenhe came home I had another baby
sister and that was the end ofthat.
So that's when they separatedand so that's when I got adopted
to my third name.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Hock Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I have more last names than a lot of ladies.
Yes, Anyway but one of thesisters, my youngest other
sister.
She got adopted out too and shedied of cancer.
One of my other half-sistersknew my mother and dad knew
where I was at.
(25:59):
So she said we're going to findJim and they found me and so I
kind of had some relationshipwith them.
But that was kind of adifferent family.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
And anyway, then, since that sister passed away, I
haven't really had any contactwith them, but it was quite an
experience.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Oh, I'll bet.
And also you served in theMichigan National Guard for a
while.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yes, I served over there in Grand Ledge and I
served in the medical departmentbecause I knew my training
would get me a good job overthere and I enjoyed it for quite
a while.
But after a while, betweenworking overtime and everything,
I just became a little bit toomuch.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
So did you go to Camp Grayling for training when?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
you were there, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So was this in the 70s?
Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
That's about I think.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, it was in the 70s yeah, oh, okay, so the 1970s
Can you?
I'm just curious.
I served in the National Guardmyself, and a lot of people I
interview served in the Guard.
What was it like in the 70s toserve in the National Guard?
Can you talk a little bit aboutjust some of your experiences
there?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Oh, I don't know.
I mean, I don't remember awhole lot about it.
I enjoyed the summer camps,enjoyed the friendship, the
camaraderie that you have.
And then, like I said, I hadone neighbor that was a
helicopter pilot in Vietnam.
He was over there.
So we made a lot of friends andstuff and like I said, I had
(27:42):
one neighbor that was ahelicopter pilot in Vietnam.
He was over there.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
So we made a lot of friends and stuff, a lot of
shared experience, that kind ofthing.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Was there anything that we haven't talked about
that you'd like to talk about?
No, I don't know.
I'm just worried about the waythings are going on in the world
today and I don't know, I'mjust worried about the way
things are going on in the worldtoday.
Uh-huh and I don't know.
I just can't figure out what'sgoing on in the world today, a
lot of people I talk to feelthat way.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Absolutely and I always felt all the lies that
were lost in Vietnam.
You know that we didn't win thewar.
I always felt because theydidn't let us you don't beat
somebody when you wait for themto come into your own area I
always felt if we'd have wentnorth and we could.
(28:28):
I don't know if that would havebeen right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah.
But, things might have beendifferent.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Oh yeah, I had a neighbor boy that I grew up with
.
He was killed in Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
So what was it like?
So you served, you were inVietnam, you came home, you kind
of went on about your life andthen we left Vietnam and we
didn't really leave under greatcircumstances.
What was that like for you tokind of see that happen after
having been there?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Again, I just felt what a waste of 56,000 lives.
They're gone.
There's nothing you can doabout them, right?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
A lot of young men.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yes, there was.
I felt just so lucky that Icould have been one of them.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah Well, like you said, when you were getting on
the plane, you felt prettycertain that you weren't going
to come back.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, but you did that's right.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, but I did it.
It was hard.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, well, and here you are.
You had a great career.
You raised a family.
You've been married to yourwife for a good long time,
living out here in Portland.
By the way, it was a beautifuldrive out here.
The only really question I haveleft is for someone listening
(29:52):
to your story years from nowwhat message would you like to
leave for them?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Just feel lucky that you're in a country that you're
free to do it.
Follow your dreams.
Just keep following your dreams.
Don't give up.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
That's what you did, right?
Yep, all right.
Well, thanks for taking timeout on a Monday morning to talk
with me, jeff.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Thank you for being here, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
You're welcome.
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