April 13, 2025 • 72 mins
Dave Battelle's life story reads like a roadmap of divine intervention and purpose-driven choices. Born on December 7, 1932, in Lansing, Michigan—exactly nine years before Pearl Harbor—Dave shares a childhood memory that still sends chills: at just three and a half years old, an inexplicable feeling prompted him to run home rather than wait for a stranger who had lured him to a park. This "little angel" likely saved his life and foreshadowed a lifetime of pivotal moments where instinct and faith would guide him.
When drafted at 21, Dave faced grueling conditions at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. During a twelve-mile forced march in 120-degree heat, only 40 of 225 soldiers finished—Dave among them. His military journey took unexpected turns, leading him to Percy Jones Hospital in Michigan rather than the Korean frontlines. Later, as a chaplain's assistant at Fitzsimmons Army Hospital, he found purpose showing Moody Science films and ministering to troops. These experiences instilled discipline and clarity that transformed his approach to education when he returned to civilian life.
The GI Bill became Dave's gateway to a 31-year teaching career across Lansing schools. Unlike his earlier unfocused attempt at college, Dave returned with veteran's determination: "Get an education and get a job." This mission-oriented approach served him well as he taught seventh grade, led a police program, and became the only male teacher of human growth and development in his district. Perhaps his greatest legacy emerged years later when former students—including one who became a bank president—approached him to share how he had changed their lives.
Throughout his story, Dave returns to one consistent theme: "The Lord is going to direct you where He wants you." From narrowly avoiding dangerous combat roles to finding his calling in education, Dave sees divine guidance in every chapter of his journey. His testimony reminds us that our lives touch others in ways we may never fully know, and that purpose often reveals itself through the rearview mirror of time.
Have you considered how seemingly small decisions might be shaping your greater purpose? Listen to Dave's full interview to discover how faith and service created his extraordinary legacy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today is Thursday, april 10th.
We're talking with DaveBattelle, who served in the
United States Army.
So good afternoon Dave, goodafternoon.
It's great to see you today.
Oh, thank you, good to see you,good to be seen, I think.
Well, we'll start out prettyeasy.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I was born 1816 Vermont Avenue, Lansing,
Michigan, December 7, 1932.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So nine full years before World War II broke out
then really.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, I was nine on Pearl Harbor Day.
Yeah, I had a cousin up inSheridan and we were celebrating
a mutual birthday.
He had a December 7th.
A mutual birthday, he had aDecember 7th.
My uncle went over to get mygrandmother to come and take
care of his daughter and my dadhad gone up and beat him, and so
(00:56):
he brought grandma home and uh,yeah, so what was it like
growing up in Lansing at thattime?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What do you kind of remember about your childhood?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Let me just tell you an experience I had.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
All right.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I was three and a half.
I walked up the corner of WhiteStreet in Vermont and a man
came by and he said corner ofWhite Street and Vermont.
And a man came by and he saidhow would you like to go to the
park and swing?
Three and a half Right, oh,sounds like fun.
So he took me over to the park.
(01:42):
He said I'm going to go get mycar.
He said you wait here.
And a little angel told me toget my tail home.
I was only three and a half,but I hadn't enough sense to
sense what was going to happen.
I just have a hunch.
(02:03):
I probably wouldn't be heretoday if I had waited for him to
come back with the car.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wow, at three years old, that's Three and a half.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Jeez, I hadn't even gone to High Street yet until
four and a half.
So Uh-huh.
But he oh, I'll take you over inthe swing and we'll have a good
time.
And it's funny.
I taught a criminal justiceprogram in the Lansing schools
(02:39):
for about 20 years and we talkedabout not going with strangers
and submitting the authoritythat's been placed over you.
And you know I, just as I lookback on it, my mom and dad
(03:00):
probably should have told me tonot go with a stranger.
But back then they, you know,we went to Stanton my grandma
lived in Stanton near McBride,yeah, and we didn't even lock
the door.
We drove up and drove throughIonia and went up the hill and
(03:22):
made it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It was a safe time, or at least we thought it was
Well compared to now.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I'll tell you what it was paradise.
I hate to say it, but I wouldhate to be teaching today.
I'm not sure I could take it.
I had a kid tell me I didn'tlike him because he was black.
(03:53):
Well, two days later there wasa race riot in battle, and I'll
never forget it because mydaughter was born on the 21st of
August of 59.
So, anyway, we were in the car,we were downtown and somebody
(04:14):
started pounding on my window.
You SOB, get your out of thecar.
I'm going to beat the.
I rolled the window, mrBattelle.
I'm gonna beat the.
I rolled the window, mrBattelle.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I'm so sorry what are your students?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
yeah, yeah, yeah, he and his brother.
But I told him to grow up andgo home, and they did yeah, so
they listened to you they did?
Yeah, well, I'll tell you whatI had some thoughts.
A two-year-old well atwo-month-old in the car what
(04:58):
could they have done for cryingout loud?
Yeah well, it wouldn't havebeen pleasant, let's put it that
way.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Right right, that was some pretty tough times all
over.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, race riots were not uncommon.
My uncle and aunt lived inDetroit near Livernois and Fenco
and they had a race riot downthere.
They were dragging people outof the car and beating the crap
out of them, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, well, let's back up a little bit, because
there's a lot of stuff thathappens in between there, right?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So you I wonder if that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of stuff that happened
between growing up.
Now did you have brothers andsisters.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I had one brother.
He was born in 21.
Okay, the poor guy took organicchemistry in his junior year at
Michigan State was the only Bthat he got in school all the
way through Eastern and MichiganState and he was going to drop
out of college because he was soembarrassed.
(06:09):
The poor guy got a B.
I said, gee, I got a B once andit didn't faze me in the least.
Of course he failed to see thehumor, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So he was gosh what 12 years older than you.
Yeah, so he was gosh what 12years older than you.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, he was born in 21, and I was born in 32, 11
years.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Oh yeah, so 11 years difference.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So you really didn't have a lot in common as you were
growing up.
Not really.
Tom Sinus was part of the SinusDramus law firm.
I guess they're still still inbusiness, but he and my brother
used to play chess everysaturday morning at the union
building.
And would you like to go andsee michigan state play today?
(06:58):
Oh, love to.
Well, here I was, probably ifhe was 18 or 19, I wasn't very
old.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, 10, 11 years old.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, so let's well.
Anyway, I had to sit there fortwo and a half or three hours
while those two guys playedchess.
When I heard checkmate, Inearly wet my pants.
But he took me to see CharlieBachman, coach, and Dick Kippe,
(07:33):
the All-American play, and itwas pretty exciting back then.
Oh yeah, but to keep yourselfbusy at that age, even with the
grill, of course, oh yeah, theconcourse and set up parlors,
and so it really well.
It made going to college a lotmore pleasant.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, yeah, now did you went to college after you got
out of the military, yes, okay,so let's let's talk a little bit
about is there anything youwant to talk about with school
prior to enlisting or prior tobeing drafted?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well, I tried Michigan State right fresh out
of high school, uh-huh, and Idiscovered the billiard room
down in the basement and thatseemed to be more fun than going
to class.
So I have to admit, I didn'tget a good start Now, not bad
(08:53):
enough to flunk out, but Isurely wasn't setting any world
records for it that way, or putit that way.
So, anyway, I got to the pointin my life.
Well, there again, let's go theway you want to go, because I
(09:20):
finally made up my mind that,come hell or high water, I was
going to make it.
And when you were a veteran,you had two things in mind Get
an education and get a job Right, not tap a keg a day, and not
all the social baloney.
(09:42):
I never got involved in that.
I had a 7 to 10 class in BerkeyHall and I had a flat tire in
the way and I walked into classabout 10 minutes late and the
(10:08):
instructor tried to welcome meand he embarrassed me more than
I'd ever been embarrassed in mylifetime.
And for our final exam we hadan oral interview with him and
he said do you remember thenight you walked into class late
(10:29):
and I embarrassed you?
I said do I remember it?
I said how could I forget it?
Now, if I'd been 18, I probablywould have cried and walked out
of the class.
But I had other things in mind.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, you were older, you were more mature, you had
some time under your belt.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Just a little bit of maturity and after being in the
military, I thought the firsttwo direct orders were
negotiable.
Once I found out they weren't,I got along a lot better.
I tried to change the Army andthey tried to change me, and
I'll never so how old were youwhen you got drafted then?
(11:21):
Well, let's see in 53, forwardto 51.
I would have been 21.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay, so you weren't in school, or were you in school
, but your grades had dipped.
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh, that it was just Well one quarter, so it wasn't
long.
And don't ask me why I wasn'tmore serious about school.
(12:00):
It's just one of those thingsthat I watched my brother do his
calculus every night at 10, 30before he went to bed, and the
poor guy got to be in organicchemistry and well, I got it.
I told him I got to pee onceand it didn't faze me in the
(12:21):
least.
And it didn't phase me in theleast.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right.
So where did you go?
To basic training?
At Fort Lauderdale and Missouri, okay.
And was this in the summertime?
Yes, so it was warm there, wellyeah, warm Red clay.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And we took a force march 12 miles one way, 120 in
the shade, with no shade.
There were 225 of us in ouroutfit D of the 231st.
So anyway, we went on the marchand out of 225, 40 of us
(13:15):
finished.
And I was one of the 40 thatfinished.
Don't ask me why I didn't.
A little bit of pride, I'm sure.
Well, I'll tell you.
We had two guys that tried tofall out four or five times and
a deuce and a half went by andthe field first had a stick
(13:38):
about well, and if you droppedout, he jabbed you in the ribs a
couple of times.
And well, you resumed yourmarching even though you didn't
either feel like you could orshouldn't.
Right, to make a long storyshort, as I say I made it, and
(14:07):
as I say I made it.
And well, the one guy died whenhe turned the company, straight
from a cook brain.
The other guy died later thatnight.
Battelle, yeah, aren't you fromMichigan?
(14:27):
I said yes, sir.
He said well, how would youlike to go to Flint and talk to
so-and-so's parents?
And I said I'd love to.
Well, we better not send you.
Then I said that's probably thewisest decision you made.
Then I said that's probably thewisest decision you made,
because I would have told themwell, you know, here they tried
(14:51):
to fall out four or five.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I felt like falling out too,but I had just enough pride by
golly.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I was going to make it one way or another, but I
didn't have to have a stickjabbed in my ribs to keep me
going either yeah, so you werein basic training and then did
you go to your schooling MOSschool after that.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
When I finished basic training, we waited for our
orders and I thought it would beKorea, because I was an A1
profile and tested pretty well.
You know what it's funny?
We went to Detroit and had ourexam and we had two lines One
(15:54):
line they could spell andpronounce their names and the
other line that couldn't.
I said these guys aren't goingto Korea, are they?
And no comment.
Well, to make a long storyshort, guess who went to Korea.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
All the guys that couldn't spell their names.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, and those that could.
But now, there again, I got myorders and it was from Fort
Custer oh my gosh, the FederalCenter right there in Battle
(16:47):
Creek.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh yeah, fort Custer Training Center there no no,
that was a ways away from it.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
This was Percy Jones Hospital, so I had an exciting
experience with that.
The guys that I was stationedwith weren't too impressed when
they found out that I was goingto Battle Creek, 48 miles from
(17:17):
home.
Right, they were going to FortLewis, washington for a couple
of weeks and going home and ontheir way to Korea and probably
not coming back.
Well, when they found where Iwas going, they were so
impressed that they took myfootlocker, all of my clothes,
(17:45):
and took them out in the woodsand hid them.
I had a feeling they were alittle bitter.
Oh yeah, and there again.
If I were going to go to Koreaand they wanted to send me to
leadership school, which youwere a head man on a rifle team,
there was an eight-man rifleteam.
(18:06):
They gave you a BAR and a widehelmet and you're the lead man
and you're out in front oh, mygosh Officer.
Well, anyway, some realexperiences.
That would have been pleasant.
(18:27):
But I said what's the catch?
Well, the life expectancy ofthe lead man on a rifle team is
90 seconds.
I said you know what?
I think I've changed my mind.
I don't think I'll go.
(18:48):
Yeah.
And it probably saved my life,or it could have.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Right.
So what did you do at PercyJones then?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I mothballed all the equipment because we were
getting rid of Percy Jones, whowas becoming the federal center
there in Battle Creek.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So I put cosmoline on all of the equipment and called
all the hospitals and askedthem whether they needed
whatever we had hospitals, andasked them whether they needed
whatever we had.
And I think the thing that hurtme more than anything we had an
x-ray cable.
They were about four inches indiameter and I tried to call
(19:41):
Percy Jones and, well, five orsix of the Army hospitals and
none of them needed an x-raymachine.
And I thought to myself, well,in order to get rid of the x-ray
(20:04):
machine, they had to put it insalvage.
And I had to saw that thing intwo with a hacksaw and I thought
to myself what a waste.
Yeah, but there again, it tookme a while to wake up, but I,
(20:30):
when they gave me this order, Ijust felt like I had to do it
right so I was there six monthsand I got some new orders for
Fitzsimmons Army Hospital out inDenver, Colorado.
Mm-hmm.
(20:50):
As the chaplain's assistantthere in Aurora, where all of
the rascals are breaking in.
And I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, anyway, yeah, so you're out in Aurora,
colorado, now.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Fitzsimmons.
Well, this is my brother and mydad.
My dad was in World War I.
My brother made it throughNormandy.
They were going to commissionhim in the Navy and found out he
had asthma so the Navy wouldn'ttake him.
(21:31):
So they handed him aflamethrower and sent him over
to Normandy and he made itthrough.
Wow, my dad rode a horse backduring World War I.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
So you have a family history of being in the military
, then oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It was in the family.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Definitely so.
How long were you atFitzsimmons then?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I went there January 1st of 54, so not quite a year.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
But I showed Moody's Science Films up on the floors
and witnessed to the troops andkept the chapel.
There's a picture.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Let me see here, this is the chapel right there.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I see thatOkay.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
So I kept that clean and was responsible for the
choir.
As I say showed Moody Sciencefilms up on the floors there at
(23:03):
the hospital and I have to admitit was, you know, good duty.
Yeah.
And sure beat Korea.
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And then where did you go after Fitzsimmons Home,
so you got discharged from there?
Yeah, okay.
And was your family still herein Lansing then?
Yeah, okay, all right.
What was your family still herein Lansing then?
Yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
What was it like coming home, exciting.
I love my mom.
Well, if you had no call likefather, like I did, my mother
and I were like this.
Yeah, she stayed home and tookcare of me every day, and I
(23:51):
don't mean to be unkind, butwhen you have to take your dad
on a heads bar two or threetimes out of the month, it
wasn't a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
No, it had to be really hard.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Well, I have to say this, that when I was 12, I
mixed apple leaves and tobaccoin a pipe.
My mother walked through thefront door and she said David
Claude, my dad's name was Claude.
(24:30):
David Claude, I want to see youin my bedroom.
Well, I didn't have to ask herwhat she meant, because she had
a yardstick in there not one ofthose little flimsy ones built
on a bottom like this and Istill got a slight indentation
in my left cheek.
That's been there for quite awhile.
But guess what?
(24:51):
I haven't smoked since.
Right when I was nine, we wereup in Stanton with my
grandparents and my grandfatherasked me if I wanted to taste a
beer, and I said yeah, I guess.
Well, I took it and spit it out.
(25:12):
That's the last time I dranktoo.
So I'm a slow learner, but Ilearned a few things from life's
experiences that encouraged meto be a little bit more
responsible.
And well, clean cut, let's putit that way, right.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Don't do things you shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So after you got home, is that,when you went to seminary, then
what did you do between?
No, when you went to seminary,then what did you do between?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No, I went to seminary before I went to
college.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, In 56, you went to seminary right yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
In Chicago, uh-huh 30 , 40 West.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
So that would have been on Washington Boulevard,
washington Boulevard.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, I remember it well.
We used to meet our wives atthe dorm every night at 615 to
make sure they made it in safely.
It was Lake Street.
It all was one block north andMadison Avenue was two blocks
(26:33):
south.
We were in a real good area ofChicago.
Yeah.
I remember a friend of mine,fred Raft.
He was a guard downtown and hegot out of work at 2.30, was
(26:58):
getting off the L and three guysaccosted him, wanted to steal
from him and probably I don'tknow what they would have done
to him, but anyway he had hisbooks in a folder.
Yeah.
And he started to swing thosearound.
(27:21):
He knocked two of them off thetrain rail and they kind of took
the message that maybe theybetter leave him alone.
Well, he feared for his lifefor a long time.
He just didn't figure he'd getaway with that.
Yeah.
But he did.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, that'll put some fear into you, for sure, oh
in that area.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I remember I spoke at the mission the gospel mission
there on Madison Avenue onenight.
It seated 500 people and theyall were alcoholics.
You walked in and you got acheap drunk, whether you wanted
to or not, but they couldn't eatuntil they listened to the
(28:15):
sermon.
So I had a captive audience andso I spoke and left and well, I
was impressed.
I wasn't impressed with thealcohol because I'd grown up
(28:35):
with it and yeah, some prettybad memories too about that.
Well, my brother had a chance togo to.
Well, anyway, end up going tosecret 7 crown.
(28:57):
He had a chance to go to MidlandDow okay as a chemist and he
had a chance to go to Seagram'ssub-town of Lawrenceburg in Anna
as a chemist.
Well, he had nine kids.
He knew how to make kids, butthe problem was that he sampled
(29:20):
the product, destroyed hismarriage, destroyed his family.
After having an alcoholicfather, he had a chance to go to
Midland Hill and he choseSeagram Seven Crown.
Now, my brother was brilliant,but not smart.
(29:42):
Now I would have had more sensethan that.
But there again, obviously hefelt the need to drain the
sorrows.
I guess, I don't know.
Yeah, but after having analcoholic father he should have
(30:06):
learned a few things.
But after having an alcoholicfather he should have learned a
few things.
But obviously it must havelooked more attractive to him
than it did to me.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, I think people in that situation go one of two
ways they either stay away fromit or they give in to it.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Jim Stiles, a guy in our church gave me a book.
We were in spuds one morning.
In our church gave me a book.
We were in spuds one morning.
The youngest son of analcoholic father has a 90%
chance of becoming an alcoholicand I wasn't interested in
drinking.
But I read that book and I saidno.
(30:44):
I said I'm not gonna run intothe same thing that the family
ran into.
So I made a choice and I'm notsorry.
I was in the Army, I was readyto get out and a girl I was
(31:07):
writing called me and said Dave,your dad became a Christian
yesterday and doesn't drinkanymore.
And I told you what.
I said that, yeah, but does hedrink at any less?
And the last 23 years of hislife he didn't drink and didn't
(31:30):
smoke.
Now he still died of emphysemafrom the.
He smoked Kools inside of thehouse.
My mom died of lung cancer.
To watch your mom die of lungcancer there's any any more
devastating than watching that.
I'll tell you she, yeah, shewas in constant pain and
(31:54):
complained and you tried tosoothe her, but you just loved
her and she loved you and thatwas about the extent of it it's
all you could do at that point,right, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So you left seminary then, though after about a year,
right, yeah yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
One year I went to seminary.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Did you just decide that that wasn't the life for
you?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Well, no, I was going to go to Michigan State.
I didn't have my undergraduatedegree, so it was going to be
seven years of schooling.
Okay.
And otherwise it's four.
You know, with your college.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So you had just reached the point where you had
to get your degree before youcould.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I had to get a degree before I could do what I wanted
to do After the second quarter.
I took a writing class.
That instructor got up and gavethe introduction to this
(33:20):
writing class.
English had never been one ofmy favorites, but I took Hazel
Lowry at Eastern and World andwe had Beowulf and Catcher in
the Rye and in fact I thoughtCrimson Letter was a dirty book.
So I took it home and hid itunder my pillow.
Well, guess where it was?
(33:41):
When I got home that night, onthe pillow, my mother wasn't as
naive as I thought.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, moms figure us out pretty good.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, well, that's about it.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, so you got into Michigan State then.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, I got into Michigan State and I tried to
get my classes and I goteverything but algebra tools,
something or other.
I couldn't get it and I triedfor a couple of hours.
(34:29):
And.
I was ready to go home and givethe whole mess up and say too
bad.
And there was a tower guard.
She was fairly decent looking.
She said you know what?
I think I can get you analgebra class.
(34:50):
I said, would you?
Yes, so she did so I can thankher for quite a few things I
because had I not been able toget it?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
We'd be having a whole different conversation.
Oh yeah, we would have, becauseI probably would have gone home
and said well, I made my effort, but it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, but instead you got your classes.
And how was college for you?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
It was, I'll tell you .
When you got new books, tuitionand $150 a month spending money
, it wasn't a bad deal reallyRight.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
The world's your oyster at that point, right?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, when I got my job there in Battle Creek at
$4,700, I took a pay cut, sothat tells you something about
what the JI Bill was worth.
But to get new books, get yourtuition paid.
I could have gotten room andboard, but I lived at home and
(36:16):
that was fine.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, and how long did you go to Michigan State?
Was that four years?
Yeah, so you would havegraduated what like in 1959?
Fifty-nine, fifty-nine, okay,and then your first teaching job
.
So let me ask you this you wentto michigan state and you got
your degree and and you neverwent back to seminary then no
right you became a teacher.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I became a teacher.
I had my mind high studenttaught at grand rapids Central
and Grand Rapids, if it makessense, grand Rapids Central,
right.
And so, anyway, I got joboffers and one of them was Grand
(37:01):
Ledge and I was going to takeit because it was close to my
mom and dad and they were up inage and I thought it would be
kind of nice to be there andtake care of them.
But when Battle Creek called mea couple weeks later and
offered me $700 more with a babycoming, I said you know what I
(37:27):
think I'm going to take it.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Now, when did you?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
get married June 8th of 56.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, so you've been married for a couple of years,
then, yeah, yeah, and how didyou meet your wife?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
She went to Penn Avenue Baptist Church.
Uh-huh, when we got married,her mom lost her husband when
Sandra was nine and she livedwith us for 40 and a half years.
(38:03):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's unbelievable, butbelieve it or not, in 40 years.
We had one disagreement shewanted to discipline the kids
and I told her time out.
I said if mom and dad are home,they'll take care of the
discipline.
If you're babysitting for themand they need something, then
(38:29):
you give it to them.
You know Right?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
So anyway, Well, that's pretty incredible, though
in 40 years, just onedisagreement.
Oh, that's a pretty good trackrecord.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Oh my gosh, that's unheard of.
Yeah, it's a miracle really.
I had a guy down in Florida.
We went there, I think, in 2007or something, something like
(39:00):
that.
Anyway, he said he'd beenmarried for four years and never
had a disagreement with hiswife.
Well, after getting to know hima little bit, I don't know
whether he argued or not, butyou talk about an unbelievable
(39:23):
or yeah, not believable.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I think if you're married and you don't get in a
disagreement once in a while,you're probably not
communicating well, you know mywife's not always right, but
you've never been wrong.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yes, yes, that's true , that's true.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
You have to be a smart man to stay married as
long as you've been married.
So you, uh, you took firstteaching job at.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
You initially were at Grand Ledge and then this no, I
went to Grand Ledge and theyoffered me a job.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Oh, they made this offer right.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
But then you got a but.
Then two weeks later, I got acall from Battle Creek offering
me $700 more than what GrandLedge was willing to pay me.
So I went to see who was there,Superintendent at Grand Ledge.
(40:21):
Well, anyway, he practicallyhugged me.
He said you know, if theyoffered me $500 more next year,
I'd probably take it.
Yeah.
So he completely let me breakcontract and go to Battle Creek,
which I thought was more thangenerous because he didn't have
(40:47):
to.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Right, right.
He allowed you to take care ofyour family, though, so that was
good.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, and really we got into a good church, got a
new home there.
We lived in an Army housing forabout a year.
Cement slab no basement.
Body, ear, mm-hmm.
Cement slab no basement basicshelter.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right, that's about it.
Yeah, well, and how long didyou?
How long were you at BattleCreek then?
How long did you teach there?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
five years okay then I got.
I got my master's in counselingin Petersburg, michigan.
The superintendent called meand he said I'd like you to be
the guide instructor for gradeskindergarten through 12.
(41:46):
Are you interested?
Well, I had a good church and agood home and I thought about
it, but I said you know, whatI'm interested.
So we went to Petersburg, rightnext to Deerfield, where Danny
(42:08):
Thomas was raised.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Oh.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Oh, okay, yeah, he St Jude.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh, that's right.
That's right, he was.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
He was like their ambassador.
He was the guy yeah.
And his daughter Marlo Thomaskind of took over for that after
he stopped.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, Marlo was his daughter.
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you, it canjerk some tears.
Yeah.
So it was a little boring, butI enjoyed it and it was
different, though, right,because you weren't teaching.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Now you were basically supervising the staff.
Is that what you?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
did?
I taught 7th grade ok for 5years in Battle Creek.
I had 6 classes of the 33 kids.
I'll tell you an experience Ihad with Phil Handy.
I had a seventh grader thatcouldn't read, couldn't write,
(43:23):
couldn't spell and couldn't domath.
Other than that he was a whiz.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Good student, other than that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well, I got the job down in Petersburg, about 18
miles from Toledo, off from 23.
Yeah so anyway, I had to goback to Battle Creek and get the
(43:53):
house ready to sell.
So I got a friend of mine, heand I helped me paint it and we
got it ready to sell and it soldright away, which I wasn't
surprised.
So anyway, the third day weworked I went to the bank and it
(44:17):
was downtown, on the corner ofCapitol and Michigan Avenue
there in Battle Creek, so Ithought I'd walk.
What's the sense of taking acar for eight blocks or whatever
.
All at once this big black kidcomes up and are you, Mr Patel?
(44:39):
I said yeah, I have been forquite a while.
He said do you know who I am?
Well, I had him in seventhgrade when he was about 3'6" and
weighed 115 pounds.
That day he was about 6 feetand weighed 200 pounds.
He's a little bigger.
Just a little.
(45:00):
Yeah.
He said you know who I am, andI said no, I don't have the.
I'm Phil Handy.
I said Phil Handy didn't havethem.
I'm Phil.
Handy.
I said Phil Handy, didn't Ihave you in seventh grade?
He said yeah, mr Patel, I'vebeen wanting to talk to you.
You changed my life.
He said.
(45:20):
I finally decided I wanted toamount to something.
You were helpful in getting meto do that.
He said you know what I did?
I said no, I went to WesternMichigan University and got my
degree in finance and I'm thepresident of the Michigan
(45:43):
National Bank downtown.
And I grabbed him and huggedhim National.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Bank downtown and I grabbed him and hugged him.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, you put him on a different path than he was on,
that's for sure.
Well, I was in Fitzsimmons,panera's one morning, panera's
one morning.
A black lady walked in, cameover and grabbed me and hugged
me and I said you know, thisdoesn't happen very often.
She said well, do you know whoI?
(46:20):
Am and.
I said I don't have the fog.
Well, I had you back in 1961,which would have been my second
year of teaching.
I said you remember me from.
Then she said, mr Pindell, howcould I forget you?
And there again, when you teach, you see the immediate but you
(46:48):
very seldom see the long term.
So you don't really see theaccomplishments that take place
after a person decides to getwith it and mature.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
You sowed some seeds and they grew right.
Yeah, yeah, so anyway.
You sowed some seeds and theygrew right?
Yeah, yeah, so anyway.
So you get your house all fixedup and ready to sell?
Oh yeah don't go.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
What was the name so you?
Speaker 1 (47:24):
were, you were working down in, you said
Petersburg, petersburg, yeah,petersburg.
Right next to.
Right next to Deerfield.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, Deerfield.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
And how long were you in Petersburg?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
We came back to Lansing in 66.
But my dad was interesting, tosay the least, and I figured I'd
better get back.
So I sent out fielders, andOakmas offered me a job and
(48:08):
Walter French offered me a job.
Well, if all things were equal.
I would have chosen Ocmus,because I know it's more
blue-collar or white-collar yeah.
More blue collar or whitecollar yeah.
(48:31):
But something just told me thatI should choose Walter French.
And well, I had the policeprogram for 20 years, taught
human growth and development forabout five years.
Work boys stayed out at Brodyfor 40 years, so I didn't sit
(48:56):
around much.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
No, you were one of the first men to teach human
growth and development, weren'tyou?
Speaker 2 (49:03):
I was the only.
You were the only man to teachthat yeah, yeah, that was, I was
yep, yeah that's interestingand I thought, let me think
about it, you know, because I'dheard so many bad experiences.
Right.
But you know what I taught forfive years and counseled the
(49:30):
other half day, and I taught ingood taste.
Neil Hansen was a teacher overat West Junior.
I went into his classroom andwas teaching growth and
(49:53):
development.
One of the boys said by the way, can you have sex after 60?
I said boy, I'd like to answerthat but I'm not that old yet.
But I'll budget Mr Hanson toanswer that.
And Mr Hanson was usually fullof it clear up to his ears.
(50:15):
He just about dropped it.
Go bats.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Oh my gosh.
So you were in the LansingSchool District for quite a
while then.
31 years my gosh, and so youtaught at.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Walter French Auto Administration Building downtown
Everett and Sexton.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
You never taught at Dwight Rich though.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Well, I had the police program and growth and
development, so I traveledreally to all those schools.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Because I noticed you named almost every school in
Lansing but not Dwight Rich, soI was just curious if you taught
there too.
Oh no that's where, neil.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Hansen was.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Oh, is that where you got asked that question, gosh,
so this whole time you'reteaching, though you're also
raising a family.
Oh yeah, how many children didyou have?
Three, three, you know.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Tell me a little bit about them okay, I had two girls
and a boy, and my last one wasmy.
My oldest daughter was born in59.
I had a daughter born in 62,and Todd was born in 63.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Sort of just one right after the other.
Then Well pretty much yeah.
And what did they end up doing?
Well Becoming.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I wish I could tell you the good news about him.
But when he was in high schoolhe was cutting through there by
Waverly High School and fell andhit his head and got a brain
(52:16):
tumor.
Oh, and he struggled most ofhis life since then.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, that's too bad.
Karen, let's see, she worked atDid any of your kids go into
(52:50):
teaching at all?
No, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Okay, they probably saw me and said, gee, why would
I want to do that?
No, I have to admit, we go tothe South Baptist and South
Church.
Oh, they took Baptist out ofthe name, didn't they?
It's go to the South Baptistand South.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Church.
Oh, they took Baptist out ofthe name, didn't they?
It's South Church now.
Yep, my kids used to go to thesummer Bible school.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Oh did they.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yep, when they were little.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Okay, well, we've been going there for quite a
while.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
So what was it like to, after 31 years of teaching,
to retire?
Speaker 2 (53:34):
You know, I was scared to death.
Uh-huh.
And I had a minor sinusinfection.
So I went to my doctor and he'sin with another doctor and he
recommended Augmentin.
Well, I didn't know I wasallergic to it, but it oxidized
(54:00):
my liver.
I lost 14 pounds, had a hivesalt for my body, couldn't eat,
couldn't sleep.
I wasn't afraid I was going todie, I was afraid I was going to
live.
And my principal called me andhe said are you sure you want to
(54:23):
keep teaching?
I had 31 years.
I said, gee, I want to go 35.
Well, what's the big deal?
So when we talked he convincedme that it was time.
When you get that nearpermanence, I'll tell you yeah,
(54:50):
I lost 14 pounds, couldn't eat,couldn't sleep.
The funny thing about it is Iwas working at the student
services downtown with PatFarrell, pat Isom.
Student.
Services downtown with PatFarrell, pat Isom, and if you
(55:17):
missed seven days of work youhad to bring a doctor's excuse.
So I walked in with thedoctor's excuse and Pat Isom
took it, tore it in two, said ifyou say you're sick, I know you
are.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Because you're an honest man and they knew that.
That's pretty incredible.
Well.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
I have to admit that.
Well, I have to admit that.
And what was the big deal abouthaving 35 years?
Because I bought 2.4, ten yearsof military and I worked at the
(56:26):
alumni relations office out inthe Union building up on the
fourth floor.
We sent out mailings to All thegraduates, yeah.
So anyway, I decided that wasit so did you do anything after
that?
I was a security guard at EastLansing High School, Waverly
(56:50):
Junior High, the library andmuseum downtown.
I work Polaris Club, the golfcourse on Canal, so I didn't sit
(57:10):
around.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Oh no, and how long did you work there?
Where now?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
The Polaris Club I was there five years, okay.
And down to the museum andlibrary.
I was there about five yearstoo Okay.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
So about ten years altogether.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:30):
When you add that to 31 years of military and well,
even Boy State, I loved thatprogram and that was 40 years,
so I didn't sit around.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
No, it sounds like you kept pretty busy.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Well, I had a paper out.
I got it when I was nine, gaveit up when I was 18.
Yeah, I had to collect everyweek, and whether they paid me
or not, I still had to go to thejournal and pay my paper bill.
And so I learned a few thingsabout people.
(58:17):
I had a couple that didn't wantto pay me when I would go there
.
I'd have to go on a Sunday.
To how much did you say it was?
And it went all the way up to35 cents.
Yeah.
Well, and they'd reach theirhand in their pocket and hand me
(58:40):
35 cents and I'd punch the card, you know.
And I thought to myself well, Isaid, whether you pay me or not
, I have to go to the journalevery Saturday morning and pay
my paper bill.
Well, how much did you say?
It was 35 cents.
And they'd reach their hand intheir pocket and hand me 35
(59:03):
cents and I'd punch their card,you know.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
And I yeah, I had a.
I remember I had a like a blackbook with two rings on it and
all my customers were in there,and then you had.
You had a white card forSaturday and Sunday.
You had a green card for Sundayonly, and then you had like a
yellow card or something forpeople who took it all week.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Well, I remember Sundays.
The papers were about like thisand you had to fold 118 and
those things.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Went through a lot of rubber bands back in those days
.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Well, I didn't know the unity, but on Vermont Street
or not.
Jerry Christopher was in myclass, he lived there.
Dwayne Evans, he lived there.
Louise Drooping, she livedthere.
Viola Dane, she lived rightthere.
Bob Schroeder Bob and EddieSchroeder, they lived there.
(01:00:02):
So I delivered papers for closeto nine years.
And my friend Johnson.
He said how would you like tocome and pitch for my 10th grade
(01:00:28):
baseball team?
I said boy, I'd love to, but Ihate to give up my paper route.
So I kept my paper route, Ifigured well, you got your
(01:00:49):
priorities right.
Well, he kind of put me throughthe paces so I figured it
wouldn't hurt me to do the same.
Give a little bit back.
But I'll tell you once I cameback to Lansing in 66, every
(01:01:12):
time he saw me he made a bigdeal out of it.
I'm trying to think who was theprincipal at Eastern.
Not him, but Eleanor EllieDorsum.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Yes, Miss Dorsum.
Yeah, I remember Miss Dorsum.
Yes, miss Dorsum.
Yeah, I remember Miss Dorsum.
I think she taught English atPattengill for a while too.
She might have.
Well, her and my sister used tolock horns all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Miss Dorsum was no joke.
Well, she was a good friend ofmine.
She grew up there in VermontStreet and she said, dave, I
want you to be a counselor atEastern, but I've got to have a
female.
I said, well, I don't qualify.
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Right, it doesn't work.
Oh, my goodness, wow, I haven'theard her name in a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Yeah, LA Dorson.
Yeah, tom.
Fox, I think he was at Everett.
Irvin was there the couple ofyears I was there.
Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Yeah, yeah, my cousin went to school with Irvin
Johnson.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I walked into the mall one day and Mickey, his
wife I didn't know her from Adam, but she said, would you help
me pick out a shirt for Irvin?
And yeah, I guess so.
Well, I picked out a shirt, andhe even liked it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
so there's your claim to fame, right there.
Right there.
Well, we've talked a lot aboutyour family and your career and
growing up and getting to whereyou're at today.
Is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you
would like to mention or like totalk about?
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
I was on Barakel's board church board for 12 years,
but I think I'm about as proudof Boys' Day as anything that I
did other than the military.
My kids are proud of their dadthat he was in the military.
(01:03:38):
Well, my dad, let's see.
He went in and 14, got out in19.
Well, right at the end of WorldWar I, he, wanted to keep his
(01:03:58):
horse and they wouldn't let him.
But he wouldn't talk to meabout his experiences.
So I don't know.
I don't have the longest ideaof what my dad did.
I know he rode a horse.
I know he rode a horse andthat's.
I know.
(01:04:20):
My brother said he'd never seenso many dead bodies in all his
life when he went to Normandy.
Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
So yeah, I'm sure they both had some pretty rough
experiences.
I'm sure they did.
Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Neither one of those wars were easy to fight.
Yeah, my dad, I'm sure if ithad all been pleasant he would
have talked to me about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I thought to myself, geeBattelle point man on rifle team
(01:04:51):
and OCS and promotionsCS andpromotions.
I said yeah, and four bulletholes in my forehead when I come
to the train station down onWashington.
Avenue.
Oh, doesn't he look good yeah.
I said no thanks.
(01:05:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Probably a smart decision on your point.
Well, 92nd.
Yeah, that's not very long.
Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
You know, missouri had their share of snakes, a lot
of cotton rattlers, but theRattlers but the yeah and Fort
Leonard Wood had its fair shareof snakes, that's for sure.
What was the name of the?
Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Diamondback or Cottonmouth or Water Moccasin no
it was.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
We had a couple of guys.
We were in combat in cities atnight.
And they went into a trench andmet two friends in there.
They were codmouth rattlers.
There again, you had 90 secondsto take care of it, or you were
(01:06:21):
gone.
Right, it was only about twofeet long, but deadly deadly
mm-hmm so do you?
Did you encounter one of thosewhile you were there?
Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
no, no, they just talked about it yeah, I didn't
even care to.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I can't say that I blame you at all.
Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Well, I think um you.
As we kind of wrap up ourconversation today, I got one
more question to ask you, uh-oh.
Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I've heard that story before.
Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, just one more.
So the question is whensomeone's listening to your
story years from now, whatmessage would you like to leave
for people?
Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
What message would you like to leave for people
that the Lord is going to directyou where he wants you?
Because so many times I hadguys that I was working with
that went someplace else andthey kept me there or sent me
someplace else.
So I've been a Christian for along time.
(01:07:41):
I just feel that Lord knowsbest and he puts you in the
direction where he wants you andkeeps you there.
Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
All right.
Well, thank you for that.
Thanks for taking time out thisafternoon to talk with me.
Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
I appreciate it.
Well, it's my pleasure.
I had no idea what we weregetting into, but here we are.
What we were getting into, buthere we are.
Well, I have to admit that whenI look back at the experiences
that happened in my life, themilitary was one that was
(01:08:29):
probably the most important.
You know, when you figure itpays for five years of schooling
and it allows you to teach for31 years and get a pension every
month and Social Security andsecurity for the rest of your
life, I mean, what complaintscan you have?
(01:08:53):
Yeah.
And if I hadn't liked it?
I'm just the kind that wouldn'thave kept it.
Mm-hmm.
Today is Thursday, april 10th.
We're talking with DaveBattelle, who served in the
United States Army.
So good afternoon Dave, goodafternoon.
It's great to see you today.
Oh, thank you, good to see you,good to be seen, I think.
Well, we'll start out prettyeasy.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I was born 1816 Vermont Avenue, Lansing,
Michigan, December 7, 1932.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So nine full years before World War II broke out
then really.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, I was nine on Pearl Harbor Day.
Yeah, I had a cousin up inSheridan and we were celebrating
a mutual birthday.
He had a December 7th.
A mutual birthday, he had aDecember 7th.
My uncle went over to get mygrandmother to come and take
care of his daughter and my dadhad gone up and beat him, and so
(00:56):
he brought grandma home and uh,yeah, so what was it like
growing up in Lansing at thattime?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What do you kind of remember about your childhood?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Let me just tell you an experience I had.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
All right.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I was three and a half.
I walked up the corner of WhiteStreet in Vermont and a man
came by and he said corner ofWhite Street and Vermont.
And a man came by and he saidhow would you like to go to the
park and swing?
Three and a half Right, oh,sounds like fun.
So he took me over to the park.
(01:42):
He said I'm going to go get mycar.
He said you wait here.
And a little angel told me toget my tail home.
I was only three and a half,but I hadn't enough sense to
sense what was going to happen.
I just have a hunch.
(02:03):
I probably wouldn't be heretoday if I had waited for him to
come back with the car.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wow, at three years old, that's Three and a half.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Jeez, I hadn't even gone to High Street yet until
four and a half.
So Uh-huh.
But he oh, I'll take you over inthe swing and we'll have a good
time.
And it's funny.
I taught a criminal justiceprogram in the Lansing schools
(02:39):
for about 20 years and we talkedabout not going with strangers
and submitting the authoritythat's been placed over you.
And you know I, just as I lookback on it, my mom and dad
(03:00):
probably should have told me tonot go with a stranger.
But back then they, you know,we went to Stanton my grandma
lived in Stanton near McBride,yeah, and we didn't even lock
the door.
We drove up and drove throughIonia and went up the hill and
(03:22):
made it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It was a safe time, or at least we thought it was
Well compared to now.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I'll tell you what it was paradise.
I hate to say it, but I wouldhate to be teaching today.
I'm not sure I could take it.
I had a kid tell me I didn'tlike him because he was black.
(03:53):
Well, two days later there wasa race riot in battle, and I'll
never forget it because mydaughter was born on the 21st of
August of 59.
So, anyway, we were in the car,we were downtown and somebody
(04:14):
started pounding on my window.
You SOB, get your out of thecar.
I'm going to beat the.
I rolled the window, mrBattelle.
I'm gonna beat the.
I rolled the window, mrBattelle.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I'm so sorry what are your students?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
yeah, yeah, yeah, he and his brother.
But I told him to grow up andgo home, and they did yeah, so
they listened to you they did?
Yeah, well, I'll tell you whatI had some thoughts.
A two-year-old well atwo-month-old in the car what
(04:58):
could they have done for cryingout loud?
Yeah well, it wouldn't havebeen pleasant, let's put it that
way.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Right right, that was some pretty tough times all
over.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, race riots were not uncommon.
My uncle and aunt lived inDetroit near Livernois and Fenco
and they had a race riot downthere.
They were dragging people outof the car and beating the crap
out of them, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, well, let's back up a little bit, because
there's a lot of stuff thathappens in between there, right?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So you I wonder if that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of stuff that happened
between growing up.
Now did you have brothers andsisters.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I had one brother.
He was born in 21.
Okay, the poor guy took organicchemistry in his junior year at
Michigan State was the only Bthat he got in school all the
way through Eastern and MichiganState and he was going to drop
out of college because he was soembarrassed.
(06:09):
The poor guy got a B.
I said, gee, I got a B once andit didn't faze me in the least.
Of course he failed to see thehumor, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So he was gosh what 12 years older than you.
Yeah, so he was gosh what 12years older than you.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, he was born in 21, and I was born in 32, 11
years.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Oh yeah, so 11 years difference.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So you really didn't have a lot in common as you were
growing up.
Not really.
Tom Sinus was part of the SinusDramus law firm.
I guess they're still still inbusiness, but he and my brother
used to play chess everysaturday morning at the union
building.
And would you like to go andsee michigan state play today?
(06:58):
Oh, love to.
Well, here I was, probably ifhe was 18 or 19, I wasn't very
old.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, 10, 11 years old.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, so let's well.
Anyway, I had to sit there fortwo and a half or three hours
while those two guys playedchess.
When I heard checkmate, Inearly wet my pants.
But he took me to see CharlieBachman, coach, and Dick Kippe,
(07:33):
the All-American play, and itwas pretty exciting back then.
Oh yeah, but to keep yourselfbusy at that age, even with the
grill, of course, oh yeah, theconcourse and set up parlors,
and so it really well.
It made going to college a lotmore pleasant.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, yeah, now did you went to college after you got
out of the military, yes, okay,so let's let's talk a little bit
about is there anything youwant to talk about with school
prior to enlisting or prior tobeing drafted?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well, I tried Michigan State right fresh out
of high school, uh-huh, and Idiscovered the billiard room
down in the basement and thatseemed to be more fun than going
to class.
So I have to admit, I didn'tget a good start Now, not bad
(08:53):
enough to flunk out, but Isurely wasn't setting any world
records for it that way, or putit that way.
So, anyway, I got to the pointin my life.
Well, there again, let's go theway you want to go, because I
(09:20):
finally made up my mind that,come hell or high water, I was
going to make it.
And when you were a veteran,you had two things in mind Get
an education and get a job Right, not tap a keg a day, and not
all the social baloney.
(09:42):
I never got involved in that.
I had a 7 to 10 class in BerkeyHall and I had a flat tire in
the way and I walked into classabout 10 minutes late and the
(10:08):
instructor tried to welcome meand he embarrassed me more than
I'd ever been embarrassed in mylifetime.
And for our final exam we hadan oral interview with him and
he said do you remember thenight you walked into class late
(10:29):
and I embarrassed you?
I said do I remember it?
I said how could I forget it?
Now, if I'd been 18, I probablywould have cried and walked out
of the class.
But I had other things in mind.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, you were older, you were more mature, you had
some time under your belt.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Just a little bit of maturity and after being in the
military, I thought the firsttwo direct orders were
negotiable.
Once I found out they weren't,I got along a lot better.
I tried to change the Army andthey tried to change me, and
I'll never so how old were youwhen you got drafted then?
(11:21):
Well, let's see in 53, forwardto 51.
I would have been 21.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay, so you weren't in school, or were you in school
, but your grades had dipped.
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh, that it was just Well one quarter, so it wasn't
long.
And don't ask me why I wasn'tmore serious about school.
(12:00):
It's just one of those thingsthat I watched my brother do his
calculus every night at 10, 30before he went to bed, and the
poor guy got to be in organicchemistry and well, I got it.
I told him I got to pee onceand it didn't faze me in the
(12:21):
least.
And it didn't phase me in theleast.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right.
So where did you go?
To basic training?
At Fort Lauderdale and Missouri, okay.
And was this in the summertime?
Yes, so it was warm there, wellyeah, warm Red clay.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And we took a force march 12 miles one way, 120 in
the shade, with no shade.
There were 225 of us in ouroutfit D of the 231st.
So anyway, we went on the marchand out of 225, 40 of us
(13:15):
finished.
And I was one of the 40 thatfinished.
Don't ask me why I didn't.
A little bit of pride, I'm sure.
Well, I'll tell you.
We had two guys that tried tofall out four or five times and
a deuce and a half went by andthe field first had a stick
(13:38):
about well, and if you droppedout, he jabbed you in the ribs a
couple of times.
And well, you resumed yourmarching even though you didn't
either feel like you could orshouldn't.
Right, to make a long storyshort, as I say I made it, and
(14:07):
as I say I made it.
And well, the one guy died whenhe turned the company, straight
from a cook brain.
The other guy died later thatnight.
Battelle, yeah, aren't you fromMichigan?
(14:27):
I said yes, sir.
He said well, how would youlike to go to Flint and talk to
so-and-so's parents?
And I said I'd love to.
Well, we better not send you.
Then I said that's probably thewisest decision you made.
Then I said that's probably thewisest decision you made,
because I would have told themwell, you know, here they tried
(14:51):
to fall out four or five.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I felt like falling out too,but I had just enough pride by
golly.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I was going to make it one way or another, but I
didn't have to have a stickjabbed in my ribs to keep me
going either yeah, so you werein basic training and then did
you go to your schooling MOSschool after that.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
When I finished basic training, we waited for our
orders and I thought it would beKorea, because I was an A1
profile and tested pretty well.
You know what it's funny?
We went to Detroit and had ourexam and we had two lines One
(15:54):
line they could spell andpronounce their names and the
other line that couldn't.
I said these guys aren't goingto Korea, are they?
And no comment.
Well, to make a long storyshort, guess who went to Korea.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
All the guys that couldn't spell their names.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, and those that could.
But now, there again, I got myorders and it was from Fort
Custer oh my gosh, the FederalCenter right there in Battle
(16:47):
Creek.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh yeah, fort Custer Training Center there no no,
that was a ways away from it.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
This was Percy Jones Hospital, so I had an exciting
experience with that.
The guys that I was stationedwith weren't too impressed when
they found out that I was goingto Battle Creek, 48 miles from
(17:17):
home.
Right, they were going to FortLewis, washington for a couple
of weeks and going home and ontheir way to Korea and probably
not coming back.
Well, when they found where Iwas going, they were so
impressed that they took myfootlocker, all of my clothes,
(17:45):
and took them out in the woodsand hid them.
I had a feeling they were alittle bitter.
Oh yeah, and there again.
If I were going to go to Koreaand they wanted to send me to
leadership school, which youwere a head man on a rifle team,
there was an eight-man rifleteam.
(18:06):
They gave you a BAR and a widehelmet and you're the lead man
and you're out in front oh, mygosh Officer.
Well, anyway, some realexperiences.
That would have been pleasant.
(18:27):
But I said what's the catch?
Well, the life expectancy ofthe lead man on a rifle team is
90 seconds.
I said you know what?
I think I've changed my mind.
I don't think I'll go.
(18:48):
Yeah.
And it probably saved my life,or it could have.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Right.
So what did you do at PercyJones then?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I mothballed all the equipment because we were
getting rid of Percy Jones, whowas becoming the federal center
there in Battle Creek.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So I put cosmoline on all of the equipment and called
all the hospitals and askedthem whether they needed
whatever we had hospitals, andasked them whether they needed
whatever we had.
And I think the thing that hurtme more than anything we had an
x-ray cable.
They were about four inches indiameter and I tried to call
(19:41):
Percy Jones and, well, five orsix of the Army hospitals and
none of them needed an x-raymachine.
And I thought to myself, well,in order to get rid of the x-ray
(20:04):
machine, they had to put it insalvage.
And I had to saw that thing intwo with a hacksaw and I thought
to myself what a waste.
Yeah, but there again, it tookme a while to wake up, but I,
(20:30):
when they gave me this order, Ijust felt like I had to do it
right so I was there six monthsand I got some new orders for
Fitzsimmons Army Hospital out inDenver, Colorado.
Mm-hmm.
(20:50):
As the chaplain's assistantthere in Aurora, where all of
the rascals are breaking in.
And I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, anyway, yeah, so you're out in Aurora,
colorado, now.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Fitzsimmons.
Well, this is my brother and mydad.
My dad was in World War I.
My brother made it throughNormandy.
They were going to commissionhim in the Navy and found out he
had asthma so the Navy wouldn'ttake him.
(21:31):
So they handed him aflamethrower and sent him over
to Normandy and he made itthrough.
Wow, my dad rode a horse backduring World War I.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
So you have a family history of being in the military
, then oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It was in the family.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Definitely so.
How long were you atFitzsimmons then?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I went there January 1st of 54, so not quite a year.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
But I showed Moody's Science Films up on the floors
and witnessed to the troops andkept the chapel.
There's a picture.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Let me see here, this is the chapel right there.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I see thatOkay.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
So I kept that clean and was responsible for the
choir.
As I say showed Moody Sciencefilms up on the floors there at
(23:03):
the hospital and I have to admitit was, you know, good duty.
Yeah.
And sure beat Korea.
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And then where did you go after Fitzsimmons Home,
so you got discharged from there?
Yeah, okay.
And was your family still herein Lansing then?
Yeah, okay, all right.
What was your family still herein Lansing then?
Yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
What was it like coming home, exciting.
I love my mom.
Well, if you had no call likefather, like I did, my mother
and I were like this.
Yeah, she stayed home and tookcare of me every day, and I
(23:51):
don't mean to be unkind, butwhen you have to take your dad
on a heads bar two or threetimes out of the month, it
wasn't a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
No, it had to be really hard.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Well, I have to say this, that when I was 12, I
mixed apple leaves and tobaccoin a pipe.
My mother walked through thefront door and she said David
Claude, my dad's name was Claude.
(24:30):
David Claude, I want to see youin my bedroom.
Well, I didn't have to ask herwhat she meant, because she had
a yardstick in there not one ofthose little flimsy ones built
on a bottom like this and Istill got a slight indentation
in my left cheek.
That's been there for quite awhile.
But guess what?
(24:51):
I haven't smoked since.
Right when I was nine, we wereup in Stanton with my
grandparents and my grandfatherasked me if I wanted to taste a
beer, and I said yeah, I guess.
Well, I took it and spit it out.
(25:12):
That's the last time I dranktoo.
So I'm a slow learner, but Ilearned a few things from life's
experiences that encouraged meto be a little bit more
responsible.
And well, clean cut, let's putit that way, right.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Don't do things you shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So after you got home, is that,when you went to seminary, then
what did you do between?
No, when you went to seminary,then what did you do between?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No, I went to seminary before I went to
college.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, In 56, you went to seminary right yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
In Chicago, uh-huh 30 , 40 West.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
So that would have been on Washington Boulevard,
washington Boulevard.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, I remember it well.
We used to meet our wives atthe dorm every night at 615 to
make sure they made it in safely.
It was Lake Street.
It all was one block north andMadison Avenue was two blocks
(26:33):
south.
We were in a real good area ofChicago.
Yeah.
I remember a friend of mine,fred Raft.
He was a guard downtown and hegot out of work at 2.30, was
(26:58):
getting off the L and three guysaccosted him, wanted to steal
from him and probably I don'tknow what they would have done
to him, but anyway he had hisbooks in a folder.
Yeah.
And he started to swing thosearound.
(27:21):
He knocked two of them off thetrain rail and they kind of took
the message that maybe theybetter leave him alone.
Well, he feared for his lifefor a long time.
He just didn't figure he'd getaway with that.
Yeah.
But he did.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, that'll put some fear into you, for sure, oh
in that area.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I remember I spoke at the mission the gospel mission
there on Madison Avenue onenight.
It seated 500 people and theyall were alcoholics.
You walked in and you got acheap drunk, whether you wanted
to or not, but they couldn't eatuntil they listened to the
(28:15):
sermon.
So I had a captive audience andso I spoke and left and well, I
was impressed.
I wasn't impressed with thealcohol because I'd grown up
(28:35):
with it and yeah, some prettybad memories too about that.
Well, my brother had a chance togo to.
Well, anyway, end up going tosecret 7 crown.
(28:57):
He had a chance to go to MidlandDow okay as a chemist and he
had a chance to go to Seagram'ssub-town of Lawrenceburg in Anna
as a chemist.
Well, he had nine kids.
He knew how to make kids, butthe problem was that he sampled
(29:20):
the product, destroyed hismarriage, destroyed his family.
After having an alcoholicfather, he had a chance to go to
Midland Hill and he choseSeagram Seven Crown.
Now, my brother was brilliant,but not smart.
(29:42):
Now I would have had more sensethan that.
But there again, obviously hefelt the need to drain the
sorrows.
I guess, I don't know.
Yeah, but after having analcoholic father he should have
(30:06):
learned a few things.
But after having an alcoholicfather he should have learned a
few things.
But obviously it must havelooked more attractive to him
than it did to me.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, I think people in that situation go one of two
ways they either stay away fromit or they give in to it.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Jim Stiles, a guy in our church gave me a book.
We were in spuds one morning.
In our church gave me a book.
We were in spuds one morning.
The youngest son of analcoholic father has a 90%
chance of becoming an alcoholicand I wasn't interested in
drinking.
But I read that book and I saidno.
(30:44):
I said I'm not gonna run intothe same thing that the family
ran into.
So I made a choice and I'm notsorry.
I was in the Army, I was readyto get out and a girl I was
(31:07):
writing called me and said Dave,your dad became a Christian
yesterday and doesn't drinkanymore.
And I told you what.
I said that, yeah, but does hedrink at any less?
And the last 23 years of hislife he didn't drink and didn't
(31:30):
smoke.
Now he still died of emphysemafrom the.
He smoked Kools inside of thehouse.
My mom died of lung cancer.
To watch your mom die of lungcancer there's any any more
devastating than watching that.
I'll tell you she, yeah, shewas in constant pain and
(31:54):
complained and you tried tosoothe her, but you just loved
her and she loved you and thatwas about the extent of it it's
all you could do at that point,right, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So you left seminary then, though after about a year,
right, yeah yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
One year I went to seminary.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Did you just decide that that wasn't the life for
you?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Well, no, I was going to go to Michigan State.
I didn't have my undergraduatedegree, so it was going to be
seven years of schooling.
Okay.
And otherwise it's four.
You know, with your college.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So you had just reached the point where you had
to get your degree before youcould.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I had to get a degree before I could do what I wanted
to do After the second quarter.
I took a writing class.
That instructor got up and gavethe introduction to this
(33:20):
writing class.
English had never been one ofmy favorites, but I took Hazel
Lowry at Eastern and World andwe had Beowulf and Catcher in
the Rye and in fact I thoughtCrimson Letter was a dirty book.
So I took it home and hid itunder my pillow.
Well, guess where it was?
(33:41):
When I got home that night, onthe pillow, my mother wasn't as
naive as I thought.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, moms figure us out pretty good.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, well, that's about it.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, so you got into Michigan State then.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, I got into Michigan State and I tried to
get my classes and I goteverything but algebra tools,
something or other.
I couldn't get it and I triedfor a couple of hours.
(34:29):
And.
I was ready to go home and givethe whole mess up and say too
bad.
And there was a tower guard.
She was fairly decent looking.
She said you know what?
I think I can get you analgebra class.
(34:50):
I said, would you?
Yes, so she did so I can thankher for quite a few things I
because had I not been able toget it?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
We'd be having a whole different conversation.
Oh yeah, we would have, becauseI probably would have gone home
and said well, I made my effort, but it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, but instead you got your classes.
And how was college for you?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
It was, I'll tell you .
When you got new books, tuitionand $150 a month spending money
, it wasn't a bad deal reallyRight.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
The world's your oyster at that point, right?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, when I got my job there in Battle Creek at
$4,700, I took a pay cut, sothat tells you something about
what the JI Bill was worth.
But to get new books, get yourtuition paid.
I could have gotten room andboard, but I lived at home and
(36:16):
that was fine.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, and how long did you go to Michigan State?
Was that four years?
Yeah, so you would havegraduated what like in 1959?
Fifty-nine, fifty-nine, okay,and then your first teaching job
.
So let me ask you this you wentto michigan state and you got
your degree and and you neverwent back to seminary then no
right you became a teacher.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I became a teacher.
I had my mind high studenttaught at grand rapids Central
and Grand Rapids, if it makessense, grand Rapids Central,
right.
And so, anyway, I got joboffers and one of them was Grand
(37:01):
Ledge and I was going to takeit because it was close to my
mom and dad and they were up inage and I thought it would be
kind of nice to be there andtake care of them.
But when Battle Creek called mea couple weeks later and
offered me $700 more with a babycoming, I said you know what I
(37:27):
think I'm going to take it.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Now, when did you?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
get married June 8th of 56.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, so you've been married for a couple of years,
then, yeah, yeah, and how didyou meet your wife?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
She went to Penn Avenue Baptist Church.
Uh-huh, when we got married,her mom lost her husband when
Sandra was nine and she livedwith us for 40 and a half years.
(38:03):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's unbelievable, butbelieve it or not, in 40 years.
We had one disagreement shewanted to discipline the kids
and I told her time out.
I said if mom and dad are home,they'll take care of the
discipline.
If you're babysitting for themand they need something, then
(38:29):
you give it to them.
You know Right?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
So anyway, Well, that's pretty incredible, though
in 40 years, just onedisagreement.
Oh, that's a pretty good trackrecord.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Oh my gosh, that's unheard of.
Yeah, it's a miracle really.
I had a guy down in Florida.
We went there, I think, in 2007or something, something like
(39:00):
that.
Anyway, he said he'd beenmarried for four years and never
had a disagreement with hiswife.
Well, after getting to know hima little bit, I don't know
whether he argued or not, butyou talk about an unbelievable
(39:23):
or yeah, not believable.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I think if you're married and you don't get in a
disagreement once in a while,you're probably not
communicating well, you know mywife's not always right, but
you've never been wrong.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yes, yes, that's true , that's true.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
You have to be a smart man to stay married as
long as you've been married.
So you, uh, you took firstteaching job at.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
You initially were at Grand Ledge and then this no, I
went to Grand Ledge and theyoffered me a job.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Oh, they made this offer right.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
But then you got a but.
Then two weeks later, I got acall from Battle Creek offering
me $700 more than what GrandLedge was willing to pay me.
So I went to see who was there,Superintendent at Grand Ledge.
(40:21):
Well, anyway, he practicallyhugged me.
He said you know, if theyoffered me $500 more next year,
I'd probably take it.
Yeah.
So he completely let me breakcontract and go to Battle Creek,
which I thought was more thangenerous because he didn't have
(40:47):
to.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Right, right.
He allowed you to take care ofyour family, though, so that was
good.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, and really we got into a good church, got a
new home there.
We lived in an Army housing forabout a year.
Cement slab no basement.
Body, ear, mm-hmm.
Cement slab no basement basicshelter.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right, that's about it.
Yeah, well, and how long didyou?
How long were you at BattleCreek then?
How long did you teach there?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
five years okay then I got.
I got my master's in counselingin Petersburg, michigan.
The superintendent called meand he said I'd like you to be
the guide instructor for gradeskindergarten through 12.
(41:46):
Are you interested?
Well, I had a good church and agood home and I thought about
it, but I said you know, whatI'm interested.
So we went to Petersburg, rightnext to Deerfield, where Danny
(42:08):
Thomas was raised.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Oh.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Oh, okay, yeah, he St Jude.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh, that's right.
That's right, he was.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
He was like their ambassador.
He was the guy yeah.
And his daughter Marlo Thomaskind of took over for that after
he stopped.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, Marlo was his daughter.
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you, it canjerk some tears.
Yeah.
So it was a little boring, butI enjoyed it and it was
different, though, right,because you weren't teaching.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Now you were basically supervising the staff.
Is that what you?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
did?
I taught 7th grade ok for 5years in Battle Creek.
I had 6 classes of the 33 kids.
I'll tell you an experience Ihad with Phil Handy.
I had a seventh grader thatcouldn't read, couldn't write,
(43:23):
couldn't spell and couldn't domath.
Other than that he was a whiz.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Good student, other than that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well, I got the job down in Petersburg, about 18
miles from Toledo, off from 23.
Yeah so anyway, I had to goback to Battle Creek and get the
(43:53):
house ready to sell.
So I got a friend of mine, heand I helped me paint it and we
got it ready to sell and it soldright away, which I wasn't
surprised.
So anyway, the third day weworked I went to the bank and it
(44:17):
was downtown, on the corner ofCapitol and Michigan Avenue
there in Battle Creek, so Ithought I'd walk.
What's the sense of taking acar for eight blocks or whatever
.
All at once this big black kidcomes up and are you, Mr Patel?
(44:39):
I said yeah, I have been forquite a while.
He said do you know who I am?
Well, I had him in seventhgrade when he was about 3'6" and
weighed 115 pounds.
That day he was about 6 feetand weighed 200 pounds.
He's a little bigger.
Just a little.
(45:00):
Yeah.
He said you know who I am, andI said no, I don't have the.
I'm Phil Handy.
I said Phil Handy didn't havethem.
I'm Phil.
Handy.
I said Phil Handy, didn't Ihave you in seventh grade?
He said yeah, mr Patel, I'vebeen wanting to talk to you.
You changed my life.
He said.
(45:20):
I finally decided I wanted toamount to something.
You were helpful in getting meto do that.
He said you know what I did?
I said no, I went to WesternMichigan University and got my
degree in finance and I'm thepresident of the Michigan
(45:43):
National Bank downtown.
And I grabbed him and huggedhim National.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Bank downtown and I grabbed him and hugged him.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, you put him on a different path than he was on,
that's for sure.
Well, I was in Fitzsimmons,panera's one morning, panera's
one morning.
A black lady walked in, cameover and grabbed me and hugged
me and I said you know, thisdoesn't happen very often.
She said well, do you know whoI?
(46:20):
Am and.
I said I don't have the fog.
Well, I had you back in 1961,which would have been my second
year of teaching.
I said you remember me from.
Then she said, mr Pindell, howcould I forget you?
And there again, when you teach, you see the immediate but you
(46:48):
very seldom see the long term.
So you don't really see theaccomplishments that take place
after a person decides to getwith it and mature.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
You sowed some seeds and they grew right.
Yeah, yeah, so anyway.
You sowed some seeds and theygrew right?
Yeah, yeah, so anyway.
So you get your house all fixedup and ready to sell?
Oh yeah don't go.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
What was the name so you?
Speaker 1 (47:24):
were, you were working down in, you said
Petersburg, petersburg, yeah,petersburg.
Right next to.
Right next to Deerfield.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, Deerfield.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
And how long were you in Petersburg?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
We came back to Lansing in 66.
But my dad was interesting, tosay the least, and I figured I'd
better get back.
So I sent out fielders, andOakmas offered me a job and
(48:08):
Walter French offered me a job.
Well, if all things were equal.
I would have chosen Ocmus,because I know it's more
blue-collar or white-collar yeah.
More blue collar or whitecollar yeah.
(48:31):
But something just told me thatI should choose Walter French.
And well, I had the policeprogram for 20 years, taught
human growth and development forabout five years.
Work boys stayed out at Brodyfor 40 years, so I didn't sit
(48:56):
around much.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
No, you were one of the first men to teach human
growth and development, weren'tyou?
Speaker 2 (49:03):
I was the only.
You were the only man to teachthat yeah, yeah, that was, I was
yep, yeah that's interestingand I thought, let me think
about it, you know, because I'dheard so many bad experiences.
Right.
But you know what I taught forfive years and counseled the
(49:30):
other half day, and I taught ingood taste.
Neil Hansen was a teacher overat West Junior.
I went into his classroom andwas teaching growth and
(49:53):
development.
One of the boys said by the way, can you have sex after 60?
I said boy, I'd like to answerthat but I'm not that old yet.
But I'll budget Mr Hanson toanswer that.
And Mr Hanson was usually fullof it clear up to his ears.
(50:15):
He just about dropped it.
Go bats.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Oh my gosh.
So you were in the LansingSchool District for quite a
while then.
31 years my gosh, and so youtaught at.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Walter French Auto Administration Building downtown
Everett and Sexton.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
You never taught at Dwight Rich though.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Well, I had the police program and growth and
development, so I traveledreally to all those schools.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Because I noticed you named almost every school in
Lansing but not Dwight Rich, soI was just curious if you taught
there too.
Oh no that's where, neil.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Hansen was.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Oh, is that where you got asked that question, gosh,
so this whole time you'reteaching, though you're also
raising a family.
Oh yeah, how many children didyou have?
Three, three, you know.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Tell me a little bit about them okay, I had two girls
and a boy, and my last one wasmy.
My oldest daughter was born in59.
I had a daughter born in 62,and Todd was born in 63.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Sort of just one right after the other.
Then Well pretty much yeah.
And what did they end up doing?
Well Becoming.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I wish I could tell you the good news about him.
But when he was in high schoolhe was cutting through there by
Waverly High School and fell andhit his head and got a brain
(52:16):
tumor.
Oh, and he struggled most ofhis life since then.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, that's too bad.
Karen, let's see, she worked atDid any of your kids go into
(52:50):
teaching at all?
No, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Okay, they probably saw me and said, gee, why would
I want to do that?
No, I have to admit, we go tothe South Baptist and South
Church.
Oh, they took Baptist out ofthe name, didn't they?
It's go to the South Baptistand South.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Church.
Oh, they took Baptist out ofthe name, didn't they?
It's South Church now.
Yep, my kids used to go to thesummer Bible school.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Oh did they.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yep, when they were little.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Okay, well, we've been going there for quite a
while.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
So what was it like to, after 31 years of teaching,
to retire?
Speaker 2 (53:34):
You know, I was scared to death.
Uh-huh.
And I had a minor sinusinfection.
So I went to my doctor and he'sin with another doctor and he
recommended Augmentin.
Well, I didn't know I wasallergic to it, but it oxidized
(54:00):
my liver.
I lost 14 pounds, had a hivesalt for my body, couldn't eat,
couldn't sleep.
I wasn't afraid I was going todie, I was afraid I was going to
live.
And my principal called me andhe said are you sure you want to
(54:23):
keep teaching?
I had 31 years.
I said, gee, I want to go 35.
Well, what's the big deal?
So when we talked he convincedme that it was time.
When you get that nearpermanence, I'll tell you yeah,
(54:50):
I lost 14 pounds, couldn't eat,couldn't sleep.
The funny thing about it is Iwas working at the student
services downtown with PatFarrell, pat Isom.
Student.
Services downtown with PatFarrell, pat Isom, and if you
(55:17):
missed seven days of work youhad to bring a doctor's excuse.
So I walked in with thedoctor's excuse and Pat Isom
took it, tore it in two, said ifyou say you're sick, I know you
are.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Because you're an honest man and they knew that.
That's pretty incredible.
Well.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
I have to admit that.
Well, I have to admit that.
And what was the big deal abouthaving 35 years?
Because I bought 2.4, ten yearsof military and I worked at the
(56:26):
alumni relations office out inthe Union building up on the
fourth floor.
We sent out mailings to All thegraduates, yeah.
So anyway, I decided that wasit so did you do anything after
that?
I was a security guard at EastLansing High School, Waverly
(56:50):
Junior High, the library andmuseum downtown.
I work Polaris Club, the golfcourse on Canal, so I didn't sit
(57:10):
around.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Oh no, and how long did you work there?
Where now?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
The Polaris Club I was there five years, okay.
And down to the museum andlibrary.
I was there about five yearstoo Okay.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
So about ten years altogether.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:30):
When you add that to 31 years of military and well,
even Boy State, I loved thatprogram and that was 40 years,
so I didn't sit around.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
No, it sounds like you kept pretty busy.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Well, I had a paper out.
I got it when I was nine, gaveit up when I was 18.
Yeah, I had to collect everyweek, and whether they paid me
or not, I still had to go to thejournal and pay my paper bill.
And so I learned a few thingsabout people.
(58:17):
I had a couple that didn't wantto pay me when I would go there
.
I'd have to go on a Sunday.
To how much did you say it was?
And it went all the way up to35 cents.
Yeah.
Well, and they'd reach theirhand in their pocket and hand me
(58:40):
35 cents and I'd punch the card, you know.
And I thought to myself well, Isaid, whether you pay me or not
, I have to go to the journalevery Saturday morning and pay
my paper bill.
Well, how much did you say?
It was 35 cents.
And they'd reach their hand intheir pocket and hand me 35
(59:03):
cents and I'd punch their card,you know.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
And I yeah, I had a.
I remember I had a like a blackbook with two rings on it and
all my customers were in there,and then you had.
You had a white card forSaturday and Sunday.
You had a green card for Sundayonly, and then you had like a
yellow card or something forpeople who took it all week.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Well, I remember Sundays.
The papers were about like thisand you had to fold 118 and
those things.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Went through a lot of rubber bands back in those days
.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Well, I didn't know the unity, but on Vermont Street
or not.
Jerry Christopher was in myclass, he lived there.
Dwayne Evans, he lived there.
Louise Drooping, she livedthere.
Viola Dane, she lived rightthere.
Bob Schroeder Bob and EddieSchroeder, they lived there.
(01:00:02):
So I delivered papers for closeto nine years.
And my friend Johnson.
He said how would you like tocome and pitch for my 10th grade
(01:00:28):
baseball team?
I said boy, I'd love to, but Ihate to give up my paper route.
So I kept my paper route, Ifigured well, you got your
(01:00:49):
priorities right.
Well, he kind of put me throughthe paces so I figured it
wouldn't hurt me to do the same.
Give a little bit back.
But I'll tell you once I cameback to Lansing in 66, every
(01:01:12):
time he saw me he made a bigdeal out of it.
I'm trying to think who was theprincipal at Eastern.
Not him, but Eleanor EllieDorsum.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Yes, Miss Dorsum.
Yeah, I remember Miss Dorsum.
Yes, miss Dorsum.
Yeah, I remember Miss Dorsum.
I think she taught English atPattengill for a while too.
She might have.
Well, her and my sister used tolock horns all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Miss Dorsum was no joke.
Well, she was a good friend ofmine.
She grew up there in VermontStreet and she said, dave, I
want you to be a counselor atEastern, but I've got to have a
female.
I said, well, I don't qualify.
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Right, it doesn't work.
Oh, my goodness, wow, I haven'theard her name in a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Yeah, LA Dorson.
Yeah, tom.
Fox, I think he was at Everett.
Irvin was there the couple ofyears I was there.
Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Yeah, yeah, my cousin went to school with Irvin
Johnson.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I walked into the mall one day and Mickey, his
wife I didn't know her from Adam, but she said, would you help
me pick out a shirt for Irvin?
And yeah, I guess so.
Well, I picked out a shirt, andhe even liked it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
so there's your claim to fame, right there.
Right there.
Well, we've talked a lot aboutyour family and your career and
growing up and getting to whereyou're at today.
Is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you
would like to mention or like totalk about?
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
I was on Barakel's board church board for 12 years,
but I think I'm about as proudof Boys' Day as anything that I
did other than the military.
My kids are proud of their dadthat he was in the military.
(01:03:38):
Well, my dad, let's see.
He went in and 14, got out in19.
Well, right at the end of WorldWar I, he, wanted to keep his
(01:03:58):
horse and they wouldn't let him.
But he wouldn't talk to meabout his experiences.
So I don't know.
I don't have the longest ideaof what my dad did.
I know he rode a horse.
I know he rode a horse andthat's.
I know.
(01:04:20):
My brother said he'd never seenso many dead bodies in all his
life when he went to Normandy.
Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
So yeah, I'm sure they both had some pretty rough
experiences.
I'm sure they did.
Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Neither one of those wars were easy to fight.
Yeah, my dad, I'm sure if ithad all been pleasant he would
have talked to me about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I thought to myself, geeBattelle point man on rifle team
(01:04:51):
and OCS and promotionsCS andpromotions.
I said yeah, and four bulletholes in my forehead when I come
to the train station down onWashington.
Avenue.
Oh, doesn't he look good yeah.
I said no thanks.
(01:05:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Probably a smart decision on your point.
Well, 92nd.
Yeah, that's not very long.
Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
You know, missouri had their share of snakes, a lot
of cotton rattlers, but theRattlers but the yeah and Fort
Leonard Wood had its fair shareof snakes, that's for sure.
What was the name of the?
Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Diamondback or Cottonmouth or Water Moccasin no
it was.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
We had a couple of guys.
We were in combat in cities atnight.
And they went into a trench andmet two friends in there.
They were codmouth rattlers.
There again, you had 90 secondsto take care of it, or you were
(01:06:21):
gone.
Right, it was only about twofeet long, but deadly deadly
mm-hmm so do you?
Did you encounter one of thosewhile you were there?
Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
no, no, they just talked about it yeah, I didn't
even care to.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I can't say that I blame you at all.
Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Well, I think um you.
As we kind of wrap up ourconversation today, I got one
more question to ask you, uh-oh.
Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I've heard that story before.
Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, just one more.
So the question is whensomeone's listening to your
story years from now, whatmessage would you like to leave
for people?
Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
What message would you like to leave for people
that the Lord is going to directyou where he wants you?
Because so many times I hadguys that I was working with
that went someplace else andthey kept me there or sent me
someplace else.
So I've been a Christian for along time.
(01:07:41):
I just feel that Lord knowsbest and he puts you in the
direction where he wants you andkeeps you there.
Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
All right.
Well, thank you for that.
Thanks for taking time out thisafternoon to talk with me.
Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
I appreciate it.
Well, it's my pleasure.
I had no idea what we weregetting into, but here we are.
What we were getting into, buthere we are.
Well, I have to admit that whenI look back at the experiences
that happened in my life, themilitary was one that was
(01:08:29):
probably the most important.
You know, when you figure itpays for five years of schooling
and it allows you to teach for31 years and get a pension every
month and Social Security andsecurity for the rest of your
life, I mean, what complaintscan you have?
(01:08:53):
Yeah.
And if I hadn't liked it?
I'm just the kind that wouldn'thave kept it.
Mm-hmm.
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