April 25, 2025 • 76 mins
Vietnam-era Navy veteran Pat Knight takes us on an extraordinary journey through his life of service, sharing intimate details of his combat search and rescue missions during the height of the conflict. With remarkable clarity, he recounts his time as an aircrew member aboard H-2 utility helicopters, equipped with bulletproof panels and door-mounted M60 machine guns, flying dangerous rescue operations over the Gulf of Tonkin.
Knight's stories transport listeners directly into military life during the late 1960s—from his unexpected deployment to Japan where he remarkably discovered he and his father had slept in the same barracks twenty years apart, to the surreal experience of flying Bob Hope's USO tour and receiving a kiss from one of Hollywood's leading ladies. His vivid descriptions of tense encounters with Russian bombers during Cold War standoffs and the camaraderie that dissolved barriers between officers and enlisted men reveal the complexity of military service during this pivotal historical period.
The conversation shifts seamlessly from military service to Knight's 32-year career in law enforcement, where he rose from patrol officer to Chief of Police in Riverview, Michigan. His approach to community-oriented policing—treating youth with firm guidance rather than harsh punishment—demonstrates how his military values translated to civilian service. Rather than slowing down in retirement, Knight continues serving his rural Michigan community on emergency management boards and senior center leadership, fighting for resources and programs that benefit his neighbors.
What makes Knight's story truly remarkable is the thread of genuine human connection running throughout—from meeting his wife of 54 years on a blind date while stationed in California, to maintaining close ties with family across generations, to advocating for senior citizens in his retirement community. His parting wisdom reminds us that life inevitably brings challenges, but resilience, family support, and continued engagement with community provide the foundation for a meaningful life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So today is Thursday, april 24th 2025.
We're talking with Pat Knight,who served in the United States
Navy.
So good afternoon, pat, goodafternoon.
It's great to see you heretoday, great to see you.
Thanks for coming.
Certainly, certainly, it was awonderful drive here.
Actually, this is a beautiful,beautiful place to be.
We'll start out pretty simplethis afternoon.
(00:20):
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was born March 31st 1948 in Chambersburg,
pennsylvania, which is nearGettysburg, central Pennsylvania
.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
All right, so we're going to figure out how you got
to Michigan then as we gothrough this conversation.
So did you grow up then inPennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, Okay, my mother's family all lived
together and they all moved enmasse.
My mother's family all livedtogether and they all moved en
masse.
We lived in a big house inHarrisburg, Pennsylvania, all of
us together on Green Street andin my mother's family, most of
them moved to the Poconos.
My father was different.
(01:00):
We moved to a city calledSunbury, S-U-N-B-U-R-Y, named
after Sunbury, England.
Actually, in Sunbury there wasa former fort, British fort
there, and a British prison, andthat's where I graduated high
school in 1966.
Now, did you have brothers andsisters?
(01:21):
I had three brothers, brothersand sisters.
And I had three brothers.
Your mom must have been a verybusy person.
Yes, and they're all youngerthan me.
I was the oldest.
Uh-huh, actually they're halfbrothers, but they were never
considered that.
My father's, my adoptedstepfather, but he was a
fabulous, fabulous man.
When he first married my mother, he grabbed me by the scuff of
the neck and said come on, youbelong to me.
(01:44):
And when he always introducedus we were numerical I was
number one, my brother Bert wasnumber two, et cetera, et cetera
.
So I was always considered that.
But I was very, very close toboth my mother and my father and
they took I did okay in highschool, but it was.
(02:11):
I don't know if I shouldcontinue.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
The draft, vietnam was exploding.
Then I graduated in 1966 fromhigh school, as I said, right,
the draft was exploding and theydidn't have the lottery draft,
they had the straight-up draftand those that weren't in the
military weren't married withchildren or weren't in college.
(02:37):
This was a town of about a cityof about 15,000 people and I
got my half day off school inMarch of my senior year to go
register for the draft and theywere sucking people up left and
right, you know, and everybodywas, and they were drafting Army
(03:00):
, of course, but they also Idon't know if you were aware of
it they drafted into the MarineCorps.
I didn't realize that.
Oh yes, they did.
I think they counted it off asa joke, whether they did it or
not.
But they went 1-2-3 Marine Corps, 1-2-3 Marine Corps, 1-2-3
Marine Corps, and so I enlistedin the Navy to take care of and
(03:23):
go to school and stuff like this.
But I was having trouble with agirl when I was growing up and
I enlisted in the Navy with thepromise of nothing, I knew
everything you know, and stuff.
Oh yeah, and then when I was, Igraduated high school June of
1966, as I said before, Igraduated high school June of
(03:48):
1966, as I said before, and Iwas deferred and I went on
reserve duty until December andI got sent to Great Lakes Naval
Training Center four days beforeChristmas.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Oh, let's talk about that.
So Great Lakes, which is inIllinois, north of Chicago, it's
wintertime and you're there.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
It was the coldest winter in the history of Chicago
.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
they said what was it like for you stepping off that
Now?
Did you take the train or wereyou by bus?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I took a bus from Sunbury, pennsylvania, to
Harrisburg.
I got on a train, I rode thetrain to Chicago and then I rode
a local train to Waukegan, yep,and then I went from there to
boot camp and stuff like this.
But my mother is funny.
When I was in boot camp shewould mail me packages and she
(04:46):
used to say she was a dramaqueen.
She used to say when I would goto the post office to mail you
packages, the tears would freezeto my cheeks.
Oh, I could picture a momsaying something like that.
And, like I said, my scoreswere great but I was mad at the
world.
Like I said, over a girl.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I wish I had a nickel for every time I started a
statement with.
I had this problem with a girl,yeah, and I made this decision
because of it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And.
But I was blessed somehow Idon't know how, or anything else
, I guess.
When I came out my scores weregreat in the Navy, my scores
were great in boot camp and whenI came out I was sent to
Imperial Beach, california.
It was a Naval Auxiliary AirStation at that time, naval
(05:37):
Auxiliary Air Station in ReamField, imperial Beach,
california, san Diego.
Okay, so it's out by San Diego.
It is right, it's just south ofSan Diego, it's like Chula
Vista in that area.
It's right in there.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And so I went to Helicopter Combat Support
Squadron 1 there and I spentfrom April until end of
September into October there.
They formed a new squadron inHC-7, helicopter Combat Support
(06:16):
Squadron 7, which was at thattime it was dedicated to combat
search and rescue home based atSugi, japan big naval air
station there, and I left there,left California in September of
1967 and went to the base wasformed.
(06:39):
It was at Atsugi, japan, atAtsugi, japan, and I went there
and I spent two years there atAtsugi and I came home in
October of 1969.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So let's talk about some of your time in Japan.
I know, prior to us doing therecording, you had told me this
story about how you and your dadhad actually stayed in the same
barracks, like 20 years apart.
Yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
My father was in the Army Air Corps in World War II
and they called it points.
He didn't have enough points tocome home and so he was in.
I'm drawing a blank on hisbases.
He wasn't stationed at Atsugi,he was there a short time but
(07:30):
when I showed him pictures ofthe base and everything else
like this, we figured that weprobably slept in the same
barracks 20-some years apartbarracks 353, and stuff like
that.
And that's where I went toschool, there for air crew
school.
I started out in California butI went to school and finished
up my air crew school in JapanTsugami, not Tsugami at Sugi,
(07:58):
japan, the naval air stationthere.
And, like I said, we were inthe East Camp they called it,
and West Camp was all Marinesand of course we would always
butt our heads with the Marinesand stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
That's what Navy guys do yeah, and it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I met this Marine aviator.
The East Camp was all Marineaviation and they had different
planes and things like thisthere and I was out on the
runway or the tarmac, tarmac yeson the tarmac and I saw this
(08:39):
marine aviator and he came to meand he says why are we fighting
?
I said, well, because you're inthe Marine Corps and I'm in the
Navy.
He said we're aviation marines.
We don't blouse our trousers,we don't cut our hair.
He says we're just like youguys.
And I was very fortunate andeverything and it was fabulous.
We had at that time we flew inthe H-2 made by command in
(09:06):
Connecticut.
It was a small utilityhelicopter and the Navy version
was designed for utility andthey modified it for search and
rescue.
They put in some bulletproofpanels for the engine, the
(09:28):
transmission, the pilot and theco-pilot.
Had doors that snapped up.
They were bulletproof doors.
We had a little plate that weswung up and we could kneel
behind it and stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So you knew where to go, just in case, but it was a
small space.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right, and it was a good helicopter and we, like I
said, it was a utilityhelicopter and stuff like this,
and we then deployed todifferent areas of Asia from
there.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was that your home base, then it?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
was Atsugi right Naval Air Station Atsugi, japan.
We had a permanent detachmentin QB Point, subic Bay and that
was the jumping-off point forthe guys for Vietnam.
They would deploy aboard guidedmissile frigates.
Like I said, there'd be an 8 to10-man detachment, one bird,
(10:28):
the guided missile frigate, hadan asphalt steel landing
platform on the tail end.
The newer ones were upper level.
They had that and we were therewith that and slept where we
could.
A lot of times we slept in thecookers, cook's quarters of the
baker's quarters.
(10:48):
That was nice because for midrats, midnight, midnight rations
, they would bring us back foodat night.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So always good to have a baker on a destroyer or a
frigate.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, this is and this is nice.
We, uh, we, we.
We liked it a lot.
We were very, very close,obviously, to our pilots.
We weren't considered likeofficers and enlisted men, we
were considered a crew andeverything was great and stuff
like this.
I remember in the first stormit wasn't a monsoon but it was a
pretty good storm and I was allupset because we kept rolling
(11:23):
in the troughs of the waves andstuff and I'm guessing I was
like pure white and this oldbosun's mate was there, an old
salt, and he goes hey boy, don'tworry about a thing, because we
only roll over so far and themast snap off and it writes
itself.
But we also.
(11:43):
When we were in the storms ourhelicopter was back on the
little miniature flight decklanding platform and it was
chained down.
Well, the junior guy had to goout with a come along when we
were in a storm and made surethat the chains were tight.
So the helicopter didn't moveand I was very glad that I got
(12:05):
seniority quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So you weren't that junior guy that had to do that?
Not very often.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
We rotated some around and stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So you were an air crewman, but what was your
specific job?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I was an aviation structural mechanic, an AMS, but
I never worked in my ratebecause I flew and my NECs were
both flight NECs and stuff andit was like it was air crew plus
.
Then it was combat, search andrescue the two.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
NECs.
So you went to that SAR school,then the search and rescue
school.
Yes, I went to that.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But then there was a different one.
They came out later with SEERschool and I went back to
California from Asia and I wentto the SEER school and we had
switched to a two-engine modeland so I went to a plane
(13:09):
captain's school for thetwo-engine model and actually I
was the first, I believe I wasthe first plane captain from the
UH-2C, the two-engine model inthe Western Pacific.
And I came back to Atsugi andyou know, kubi Point and Suik
Bay, but we went to Sear Schooland I was just amazed at that
(13:33):
with how they worked, that andstuff like this.
And we had, you know, madesleeping bags and tents out of
parachutes and it was in WarnerSprings and we did all that
stuff and then the aggressorswould come through at night,
tear our tents down and they hadautomatic weapons firing blanks
(13:56):
, right, and they would shoot upthe thing and start to get you
gone and stuff like this.
And we went there and there wasa series where we had
navigation and we were taught tonavigate so we could find our
way in case we were shot down.
And there was a fresh officer Iput it that way who knew more
(14:26):
than anybody, of course, and wewere going back and we went down
and there's this barbed wirethere and they said in the
briefing don't cross the barbedwire.
And I told this officer thatand he said I'm a commissioned
officer, you do what I say.
(14:50):
So we went down over this hilland they were loading the
prisoners into trucks and wewere captured early.
So we were there early in thecompound and they put us in
black boxes and they would haveus kneel and cross our legs and
kneel and bend over, and theywould.
They were like plywood stuff,like this boxes.
(15:13):
They had different ones thereand they'd come along and they
seemed to.
I'm guessing what they did was.
I never asked for anything elselike this, but we didn't hear a
lot of people speaking English.
They had, like these were allNavy people but they had like
Mexican-Americans and they hadlike different other ones like
(15:35):
this when they were around usthey didn't speak in English and
stuff.
They'd come along and theywould pound on the boxes and
you'd have to recite yourprisoner number.
I remember the one time I got intoo big of a box.
I rolled over and fell asleep.
They pounded on the box andthey pulled me out and they
(15:56):
whacked me.
There was a Red Cross area thatyou could go and stuff like
this and everything else and itwas like a big, huge tent with a
wooden platform and stuff.
But there was a place that youcould sneak out of and escape
(16:17):
and another guy told me aboutthat, so I would get that and if
you escaped you got a hamsandwich and a glass of milk.
Oh yeah, so we did that andstuff.
But we went there and I thinkabout it.
I've been by there WarnerSprings many years later.
I just went by there justrecently and saw the sign for
Warner Springs for the city.
(16:37):
I'm sure it's long closed.
I thought about my time inSears School.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, probably the best ham sandwich you ever ate
there too, right, yeah, andstuff but uh.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
But then we went back .
I went back uh, to uh, japanand we deployed and everything
and we went on differentdeployments, um and and things
like that and um, and then in inuh, we were in at sugi had.
We were the only helicopterNavy helicopter squadron at
(17:08):
Atsugi Naval Air Station andthen they had all sorts of other
transport squadrons andeverything else like this.
For the Navy they had a spysquadron VQ-1, fleet
Reconnaissance Squadron 1.
And they flew EC-121s and sothey flew those out of there and
(17:32):
did tracking into the Sea ofJapan and over North Korea and
things like that, and probablydown into Vietnam, north Vietnam
and stuff.
Yeah, down into Vietnam, northVietnam and stuff yeah.
But in April of 69, the NorthKoreans I think there was like
(17:55):
three or four North Korean MiGsshot down a EC-121 from Atsugi.
It was not on a track, theyusually ran with a flight crew
of like 12.
There were 31 people on board.
There were a good number ofpeople on board just for flight
(18:17):
time.
There were even Marines onboard and they shot it down you
can look it up and stuff likethis because it was there and
they went into the Sea of Japanand we were diverted north.
I was on the USS Dale and wewere diverted north and we were
(18:41):
there and it was.
I thought there was threecarriers up there at that time,
but there was a fellow here inHillsdale that I met was on
another aircraft carrier.
He said no, there were fourcarriers up there, so they were
ready to go to war with NorthKorea.
Yeah, and then when we woke upone morning we were there quite
(19:01):
a while searching for him.
When we woke up one morning, wewere there quite a while
searching for him and the onlybody we found, sadly, was the
man who was in my squadron inHC-7.
He was married to a foreignnational and he was having
trouble getting his kids back tothe States, so he transferred
(19:22):
into VQ-1.
He was in aviation, so hetransferred into VQ-1.
He was in aviation.
He was an AT, an electronicstechnician.
Dick Sweeney was his name.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
He was the only body we found, so out of all 31
people.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You never found anyone no we never found anyone
and, like I said, the carrierswere there.
And then we woke up one morning.
Oh, I'll back up a little bit.
We had all sorts of planesflying around and I never
realized how big a Russian bearbomber was.
And we had one fly by us andthe tail, the big red star on it
(20:03):
, was as big as our helicopter.
And the co-pilot just gave us awave and I said over to the
intercom, because we had an M60machine gun on the left-hand
door, the crew door, and I saidover the intercom.
I said to the crew, I said hey,how about if I just wave this
M60 at them?
Well, the pilot, timMalachowski, said Knight, if you
(20:24):
move, we'll kill you.
They don't want to tangle withthe Russian bear, no.
But then after that everyoneleft and we were the only one
there.
We didn't have any supportships or anything.
So we stayed there and it wasus and a Russian destroyer.
The Russian destroyer would goback into port every night.
(20:45):
Vladivostok, it's that farsouth end.
So you were Close.
We were up at the north end ofNorth Korea and stuff.
We would follow them in andthen follow them back out.
And we refueled US militaryships, refueled side to side
(21:07):
with the oilers.
They refueled end to end.
When we refueled, they wouldpull behind us and act as a
lifeguard in case someone felloverboard or something like this
.
When they refueled, we pulledbehind them and acted as a
lifeguard.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Wow, that's nice.
A little detente back in the60s behind them and acted as a
limerick Wow that's nice, alittle detente back in the 60s.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So yeah, we were there and stuff like this, but
we were quite quite.
The HC-7 was quite a busy, busysquadron.
They made just under.
They were there from 1967, as Isaid, in late summer and they
came back to the States and theywere decommissioned in 75 when
(21:54):
Saigon fell back to thecommunists.
I was long gone.
I left in 1969.
I was there two years Right.
But they made I think it was148 rescues out of North Vietnam
in the area, waters and stuff.
But it was good duty, very,very good duty.
(22:14):
The camaraderie wasunbelievable with the men.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, you got to have , when you're doing that kind of
work, you got to have thosekind of friendships.
Oh, we were tight.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And there was no such thing.
As you know, you did treat themwith respect, but there was no
such thing as officers andenlisted men, because we were
all together, Right and stuff,and, like I said, we flew and
had a, we had a good time andstuff like that, and off duty,
you know, we went back to thePhilippines or back to Japan.
(22:43):
Of course, then you treated himwith respect and everything,
but it was always real good duty.
I remember once back up inJapan anyone could fly, left
seat in a helicopter you canhave you know a list of men.
So I was dragged out of my bunk, out of my rack, on a Sunday
(23:05):
morning by an officer I knewvery, very well and he wanted me
to fly with him.
So I had thought he neededflight time for the month and
stuff it's the only way theydon't Well.
His I can't remember if it washis girlfriend or his wife was
there.
She was.
He knew I was from.
(23:27):
My family lived in NewHampshire.
His wife or girlfriend,whatever she was, was in the
Miss.
I think she was Miss NewHampshire, oh.
And so he took her on thehelicopter.
When we were airborne he had meleave and go in the back.
We were in the H2.
He had his girlfriend come upand sit in the back.
We were in the H-2.
He had his girlfriend come upand sit in the co-pilot seat, in
(23:48):
the left seat, and so we flewjust around the base and stuff
like that, and then we got backand we changed and stuff.
So it's always interesting.
I have a lot of you know funnystories.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Oh yeah, a lot of good memories from there.
So did you guys fly a lot ofgood memories from there?
Oh yeah, so did you guys fly alot of search and rescue
missions then, while you werethere.
Yes, yes, Okay, so it was….
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, like I said, we went to… we were out of Hatsugi
or, I'm sorry, out of KewpiePoint, and then we would fly off
the guided missile frigates,the DLGs, and we always told the
pilots, whenever we briefed thepilots, the aircraft carrier
(24:31):
pilots, that if you get hit, getfeet wet, In other words, bail
out over the ocean like a TonkinGulf.
Your chances of survivalskyrocket if you do that.
Your chances of survivalskyrocket if you do that.
So we always had two crewmen.
Like I said, we were in a smallhelicopter.
First crewman stayed in thehelicopter, maintained radio
(24:54):
contact, the hoist and the M60machine gun on the left-hand
door.
Plus we had a rack of oneshoulder-mounted M60 and then
some M16s on the right-hand sideand everyone had you know 45
and stuff like this with them.
But we always had a guy thatwas always dressed as a swimmer.
(25:16):
He had, you know, the big swimfins ocean-going swim fins and a
mask and a vest.
The vest had a small flotationthing in it, had a D-ring in it
that you could hook up yourselfto when you got the pilot, and a
big K-bar knife and of course,the little CO bottles and stuff.
(25:38):
And it's interesting, later inlife, later on we had a guy
who's dead now.
Phil Poison was his name.
Ran the reunion association formy overseas helicopter squadron
.
Phil Poison lived in San Diego.
Put out to everyone did anyonehave this swimmer's vest?
(25:59):
They wanted to put it ondisplay.
And my wife said isn't that whatthe kids used to play with when
we lived in Riverview?
So I found it in the garagehere in Hillsdale and I went out
there and I took the knife outand the CO bottles out and it
had my name embroidered on itUSN on the other side and I sent
(26:21):
it off to Phil Poison on theother side.
And I sent it off to PhilPoison.
And the USS Midway isdecommissioned.
It's a floating museum in SanDiego Harbor and he gave it to
them for display.
Well, my wife and I went outthere and I went all over the
(26:48):
ship and stuff like this andthere's three of my helicopters
on the flight deck and the H-2,the H-3, and the H-46 are on the
flight deck and I went down andasked the people down in the
end of the display in the hangardeck if my stuff was there and
he says no.
He says I bet you it's still instorage.
(27:10):
So my brother and his familyhave a place in California,
southern California.
He lives in New Hampshire still, but we went out there to visit
him and we went there and Itook my brother there and on the
flight deck, as I said, there'san H-2, h-3, and H-46.
(27:30):
And then down in the hangararea there's a display for
search and rescue and it's allenclosed in plexiglass so no one
can touch anything.
And there's my first skipper'scoffee mug and there's the a
(27:51):
copy of the Medal of Honorcertificate from one of our
pilots, Clyde Lassen, that wonthe Medal of Honor, and there's
some other things there for andeverything else.
And over in the other sidethere's this enclosed area where
is this swimmer's vest, butit's turned around so you can't
(28:13):
see my name on it, whatever, forwhatever reason.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So but it's there so so your, your vest lives on 15
seconds of fame.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
So when I go out there, when I go to california,
I'm gonna go see your vest yeah,it's lloyd parthomer's coffee
cup and yeah, and uh andeverything and and, like I said
there's.
And then Clyde Lassen he wasjust such a nice man died of
cancer later.
Oh, life down in Florida.
Not not service-related, yeah,but but yeah it was, it was nice
(28:45):
and, like I said, I love flyingand it was.
It was just really really great, great.
We, as I told you before weeven got to, fly Bob Hope, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
So I think, before we leave Vietnam, you need to tell
me what's this Bob Hope storyall about.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I shared a house out in Japan, in what they call the
Japanese economy, with a fellowwho was in charge of assigning
all enlisted crewmen throughoutthe squadron and he and I were
best friends and so when thetime came up to fly Bob Hope, we
flew him, of course, in theH-46.
And, as I said before, I wasthe first crewman in the H-2.
(29:40):
I wasn't the first crewman inthe H-46, but anyone can fly a
second crewman, and so I got tofly Bob Hope in 1968.
And he was such a nice man andmost Hollywood stars, you know
their kids didn't go in themilitary, but Bob Hope and his
(30:00):
wife Dorothy, their childrenwere all adopted and his son
Kelly I think that was hismiddle name, it wasn't his first
name.
Kelly Hope was a Navy corpsmanand he was at a time stationed
at the big Army hospital in Zama, japan, and so you know we were
assigned to fly Bob Hope and wewere there and Jerry Colonna
(30:27):
and Martha Ray and Ann Margaretand a bunch of them I can't
remember all the stars werethere.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Anne Margaret's, the only one that matters to me,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And stuff and they were all dancing on the flight
deck with them and stuff likethis and it was fabulous.
And then, as you know, at theshows all the wounded sat in the
front row.
Yeah Well, we sat to the rightor to the left.
There's four of us pilot,co-pilot, two enlisted fliers,
(30:58):
and we were there at his showsand stuff like this.
But later on in life, and wewere living out here in
Hillsdale, my two adult childrenbought me the DVDs Bob, the
Vietnam years and second DVD.
In comes this H-46 helicopternumber 50, with my squadron's
emblem on it, with some goofyguy hanging out the front door
(31:21):
window.
No, so there's my 15 seconds offame.
But he was, like I said, sonice to us the first stop we
made.
We got out of the helicopter,he had the stars line up and he
took us down and introduced usto every single star and we just
felt like we were somethingspecial and he made us feel so
(31:44):
great.
He was such a nice man.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Well, that's a great experience, yeah, yeah, because
sometimes you meet people likethat and they're not so nice,
but it sounds like this was, oh,bob Hope was just fabulous,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And all the entertainers were there.
They were really good peopleand stuff like this.
And it's interesting, we hadparachute riggers were the guys
who did all of our sewing for us.
Parachute riggers were the guyswho did all of our sewing for
us.
And my name tag my leather nametag on my flight jacket and
(32:18):
then the ones on Velcro that Ihad on my flight suits.
They had my air crew wings onit and had.
At that time I was just anairman but it said P Knight on
it.
And there was an incident thathappened in the Philippines and
I kind of saved this oneparachute rigger's butt for
something and he told meanything you want, you got it.
(32:39):
I said you know something?
I'd like my name tag to say PatKnight, not P Knight.
So I did that and I'm helpingone of the stars down the steps
of the 46.
And she grabbed me by myshoulders and gave me a big
smooch, big kiss and asked mePat Knight, how have you been?
I thought she remembered mefrom before and I showed this
(33:02):
and told this story years laterwhen I was in the police
department in Riverview and Ihad some police over and stuff
like this and I told them thisstory and they said hey,
blankety blank, she didn'tremember you, she read your name
tag.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Oh, all those years you were believing the wrong
thing.
So you burst my bubble.
Yeah, so, so you were in forhow many years then?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Two.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I was in.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I was in the Navy for for just under four years.
It was three years nine months.
I got an early out in Septemberof 70 because I was registered
to go to the University of NewHampshire, okay and stuff.
So I got early out.
So I spent three years inmultiple months in active duty,
(33:50):
of course, two years in activeduty and stuff.
And if it hadn't been for theNavy I wouldn't be sitting here.
My wife is from Wyandotte,michigan.
She was going to WesternMichigan University at the time
and her and her girlfriend, bothfrom Wyandotte and they went to
Western at the Western, wentout to California, to Imperial
(34:14):
Beach in San Diego area to seeher sister-in-law who was her
best friend in Wyandotte HighSchool.
Her brother was in the Navy.
He was on the USS BonhommeRichard the aircraft carrier.
He did catapults and I met myfuture wife on a blind date in
(34:34):
Imperial Beach, california.
So if I hadn't been for the Navybecause I came back and I was
with a kid from a man, kid fromToledo, and he flew in the H-3.
He flew aboard the carrierswith the H-3.
But we went he said he wantedto stop in these apartments in
Imperial Beach to see his buddyfrom Toledo.
(34:56):
So we went in to see him andScott Boyer was the man's name,
and this is his wife, sharon.
He was out on an aircraftcarrier which was my future
brother-in-law's aircraftcarrier, the Bonhomer Shard, the
Bonnie Dick.
They were doing carrier qualls,getting ready to go back to
(35:18):
Vietnam, and she said boy, haveI got two girls for you guys to
meet?
How about tonight?
Well, it was Sunday night.
We had all been together up inLa Jolla up at one of the guys'
parents' place.
We had a big party and stuff.
We didn't even destroy theparents' place, you didn't wreck
anything.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
No, we were good.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And she said how about tonight?
And I said how about Tuesday?
We both flew Tuesday night, wegot flight pay.
They'll think we're rich.
So we met them and he ended upRon Stahl was his name and we
ended up meeting the two ladies.
Rosemary Adamus was the otherlady, my wife was Kathy Lake at
(36:01):
that time and we met them andeverything else like this.
And Ron Stahl, like I said, wasfrom Toledo and he ended up
marrying Rose.
Sadly, he was killed in amotorcycle accident in Toledo.
Oh, not his fault, yeah, andstuff.
But she's made out well.
She was a teacher as well, assame as my wife Mm-hmm, and she
(36:25):
married her principal in hersecond marriage and she had two
kids and they were all there,all'm sure grown up now and
everything, but it all sort ofturned out.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
So you were from Pennsylvania, you met a gal from
Michigan out in California.
Sounds like the date wentpretty well, but then she went
home and you went home, I wentback.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
After I got out of the Navy I went to New Hampshire
, yeah, and we got there and wedid long distance uh telephoning
and writing between Concord,New Hampshire, and Wyandotte,
michigan, and um, we knew eachother 13 months and we got
married.
We got married in Wyandotte andwe settled uh uh in in uh down
(37:08):
river in in in Wyandotte and andum, uh, I worked at various car
dealerships and stuff asservice manager and things like
that.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Then I uh well, before we get too far, though I
want to.
I want to point something outto people listening to.
This is that when you'retalking long distance at that
time it was, it was longdistance call, so you paid for
the call or you wrote letters,right, and um, you know
the-month longest relationship.
Looking at it from today'sperspective, it seems like wow,
(37:37):
that kind of happened kind ofquick.
But you really get to knowsomeone when you hand write a
letter to them, right?
I mean, is that what happened?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yes, and we still have a good number of those
letters here, and stuff likethis, and I did go back and
forth and she came to NewHampshire my parents, we did go
back and forth and I came toMichigan and everything else and
her father was in the Navy inWorld War II and, as I mentioned
(38:03):
before, my father was in theArmy Air Corps in World War II
and both my parents wereteachers.
My father-in-law worked forDetroit Edison and we got
married in Wyandotte.
Like I said, 13 months after wemet and we actually my parents
(38:25):
still in their home inPennsylvania where I grew up and
so we went back there where Igrew up and so we went back
there, which was a big mistake,and she was very, very nice to
me, my wife, my brand-new brideand we stayed there for a very
short time and then we came backto Michigan and then I worked
(38:49):
at some car dealers as like themaintenance manager and things
like this at car dealers andstuff and parts manager.
And then in 1973, I was hiredon the Riverview Police
Department.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Now, is this something you had like always
wanted to do, or is this justsomething that kind of like oh,
this looks like a goodopportunity.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I did something and I had applied to Michigan State
Police and stuff, and I think itwas probably for me working in
the government, with being inthe Navy and stuff like this,
and you know my, you knowteachers and government workers,
right things like this and andI just you know, applied to,
(39:39):
like I said, the Michigan StatePolice and Riverview police and
I I was playing oh, I back up atone step.
I was, like I said, servicemanager at South Point Dodge in
Taylor, michigan, and I wasgolfing on the Riverview Golf
Course, which is still there.
The pro came out and he was oneof the teachers in Riverview
(40:04):
and he said that your guy didn'tshow up and this guy didn't
show up.
I'm going to pair you with him,is that okay?
I said, sure, I'm a terriblegolfer, but we'll do it.
And the man was the.
He was a part-time mayor of thecity of Riverview, chet Belak
(40:24):
was his name, and so we golfedand he asked me what I did and
everything else like this and,like I said I had applied to
Michigan State Police andeverything else like this, he
asked me did you ever thinkabout being a policeman?
I said, yes, I did.
And he says, well, we're hiring, he says.
But I voted against it becausewe have too many policemen.
(40:46):
So I applied to RiverviewPolice and I was hired, and that
was 1973.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
And you didn't list him as a reference, did you no?
And you worked there for howlong?
32 years, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
So you had quite a career, right, and I retired as
chief of police.
As I joke with people, I shouldhave stayed in the union.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I've heard that story from a lot of people.
Politicians still be crazy.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
But I loved it.
I did everything From patrolwork all the way up to chief of
police.
I worked in traffic for manyyears the traffic bureaus they
called it.
I was just a patrolman but Idid all the school programs and
(41:40):
things like that.
It was interesting and stuff.
I worked in the detectivebureau.
I worked the road for a shortwhile.
They rotated shifts every sevendays so it got tough on you and
your body, tough on you andyour family and stuff.
(42:00):
I worked the 32 years.
I probably worked the majorityof them straight day shift with
the detective bureau and thingslike that.
And things came back around.
I mean always, you know, goodstuff for me.
I, you know, was there andstuff like this and we had a.
(42:22):
I worked all the.
I was in charge of the auxiliarypolice, as I said before, so I
went to all the basketball games, football games and things like
that.
And they had a Catholic highschool in Riverview.
They did not have their ownfootball field, they utilized
Riverview's public schoolfootball field.
(42:42):
So I took my auxiliary policeand I went to their games and
worked their games.
Well, I was of the opinion that, of the opinion that you know
you're nice to people and stuff,especially kids.
If you caught kids doingsomething, you didn't lock them
up, you kicked them in the butt.
(43:03):
It's a small town, so youcontacted their parents and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Everybody knows everybody.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, and if you caught kids with beer you make
them pour it out.
You know, rant and rave andscream at them.
And I went throughnon-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
Hey, I'm cured here in Michiganat Henry Ford Jackson, Henry
Ford Allegiance, and I wasgetting some very nasty you know
(43:31):
, I said non-Hodgkin's lymphomavery nasty chemotherapy because
my cancer was very fast growingand so I was about to get my
first chemo infusion.
I'm lying on the table and thisinfusion nurse is there and
she's about to poke me with thisneedle, with R-CHOP and that's
the acronym for all this stuff,and it was like nasty stuff.
(43:51):
Um, I could not kiss my wifefor a number of days.
Whenever I this is gross, but Iurinated, my urinated orange and
I couldn't even let my dog lickme because the stuff radiated
through my skin, right.
But this nurse leans down andlooks at me and she said I know
(44:13):
you, I remember you, you made uspour our beer out.
And she said I know you, Iremember you, you made us pour
our beer out.
She was from Roseo, michigan,went to Gabriel Richard High
School and I caught them in theparking lot with beer, I guess
and made them pour it out andkicked their butts and sent them
home to their parents.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
This is not the time you want to remember that story,
right?
While she's getting ready topoke her in the needle, though,
yeah and it was funny.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
It was funny how things go around and stuff, but
it was great.
And, like I said, people guysfrom my squadron said your stuff
is it related to dioxin?
I said I don't know, I don'tthink so, I don't think it's the
right type.
I said, but I don't care.
I I said I don't know, I don'tthink so, I don't think it's the
right type.
(44:58):
I said but I don't care, I'mcured so I didn't go to the VA.
I do have a 10% disability forhearing Right.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
So from helicopter jet engine noise or machine gun
noise, they said so you wentthrough your cancer treatment
while you were still a policeofficer then.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
No, we were out here, I was retired, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah Well, I do want to ask you a question about your
time, because you know a lot ofmy family friends are police
officers.
In fact, I worked part-time fora while and you know cops have
a million stories and we don'thave time for a million stories.
(45:40):
But I would like to know, like,when you think back on your
time doing police work, what'slike maybe one or two things
that really like stick out inyour mind that you're either
proud of or that just somethingthat you remember when you think
back on that time?
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Well, I was very, very proud to do and, like I
said, work with the kids andwork with the people and stuff
like this.
And I had very, very close ties, not just because my wife was a
teacher very close ties to theschool district and everything
else like this.
But Riverview was just afabulous, fabulous place to work
(46:12):
.
But in those days it wasMichigan state law that police
officers had to live in the citythey served, so that helped me
out tremendously, being fromPennsylvania and not being from
from down river in in inRiverview.
Um, so you got to know everyoneand and it was uh, when I
retired they had a retirementparty for me.
(46:34):
I was very thankful for that.
I had well over 200 people cometo my retirement party.
I had, of course, federal lawenforcement, state law
enforcement, county, local, myown people come and stuff like
this.
But the amount of citizens,especially older people from the
Downriver area, that paid 25bucks a ticket to come to my
(46:58):
retirement party, I stood at thepodium and I cried and my wife
just said to me maybe it'sbecause you did a good job and
stuff and and I have, I havegreat, great, uh, uh memories of
of the riverview policedepartment.
It was just a fabulous place towork.
I stay in contact with a lot ofpeople there.
(47:24):
The little side note one of theformer graduates of Riverview is
a guy by the name of Lloyd CarrJr.
He is a former head footballcoach at University of Michigan,
before Harbaugh.
He was in 1997, he took him tothe national championship and
(47:47):
he's such a nice, nice man andsadly, the last three times I've
seen him and I've seen him alot since then have been at
funerals.
His second wife passed away.
Uh, I didn't see him at my, mykid's graduation because his
stepson went to uh uh GrandValley state with our daughter
(48:10):
and um, uh, my guy, I got hiredwith uh Riverview.
Uh, he just passed away.
So Lloyd was at his funeral.
He lives out here in the areaand he doesn't drive, his family
drives him, but he's just sucha nice, nice man.
But the people of Riverview,they accepted me and they were
(48:32):
just so nice and they treated melike one of their own.
And you know the schooldistrict where my wife worked
and the city employees were allintegrated.
You know they were, we were inthe same credit union and things
like that and I have I just Iforgot all about it.
But just before I retired as apolice officer, I was named
(48:54):
police officer of the year andthey had the awards ceremony,
where I got the thing around myneck and stuff because I just
found the DVD downstairs and but, like I said, the memories of
working in the city of Riverviewand with the people and the
(49:17):
citizens, the citizens were justso great and sadly, like I said
, police officers don't have tolive where they serve anymore
because when John Engler wasgovernor he changed it, which it
should be, and now they've goneoutside.
The last two chiefs of policethat have been there have not
(49:40):
come up through the ranks.
The guy there now works inanother downriver city and they
had another one from DearbornPolice that was there and sadly,
the people that are moving upthe police they can't do that
because there's nothing at thetop anymore.
Right, it's sad.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Well, I think some of your best leaders come from
inside the ranks.
There, you know.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Well, yeah, when I was deputy chief and when I was
named chief of police, I lookedat the lieutenants that were
there and I knew them all very,very well.
I got along with them andeverything else like this.
But I thought I don't think Iwant to work side by side with
them on a regular basis likethat.
So I went down and chose asergeant.
(50:31):
He was a detective sergeant.
I worked with him when I was inthe detective bureau.
I knew that he was rock solidand he would have my back and he
would do the job.
So I named him deputy chief.
I try to hurt some people'sfeelings and probably upset some
people, but then he becamechief when I retired.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Right, Well, you're the chief, you get to make those
decisions Right.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
And, like I said, I really enjoyed police work.
Riverview was very safe, theDown River communities were very
, very safe and it was nice.
And I remember that, other thanat the range, I fired my gun
one time.
Other than at the range, Ifired my gun one time.
(51:18):
There was two fellows that hadescaped from one of the prisons
in Jackson and they had stolen acar and they were downriver and
we saw them and we were chasingthem and we went to.
They drove into Trenton, a citysouth of us, and it was the 4th
of July and it was a Sunday.
(51:40):
I remember that distinctly andI drove in and they get out of
their car and they're runningahead of me and they were
running into a court and I'm nowin the city of, like I said, in
the city of Trenton, and I'mchasing them and I pulled out my
weapon and hollered hold orI'll shoot.
(52:00):
But I had the time and presenceof mind.
I looked over the shoulder ofthe guy as he's running, he's
armed but he's not pointing hisgun at me.
There's a man sitting in his.
He's in a court.
He's sitting in his family roomyeah, I think it was family
room and he's got a bathrobe onreading the Sunday paper, and
(52:24):
he's right over the shoulder ofthe man I had.
So I fired into the ground andblew up some guy's zucchini
patch.
Oh no, and it was funny.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
You can't do that anymore either.
No, no, warning shots right?
No, no, but I did that so thatwas.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
But they kept going and the Trenton cops caught them
.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
But it was funny.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So the whole time you're on the police force you
had children, right?
Yes, and how many children didyou have?
Two, two, we have a son and adaughter, okay, so they grew up
in.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Riverview.
They went to school andgraduated high school in
Riverview yes, those poor kids.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Their mom's a teacher and their dad's a cop.
They can't get away withanything.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
No, but they never.
You know, living in the city ofRiverview, it was good for them
.
They never faced any adversityfrom their fellow students or
anything else like this, and itwas a good place to raise a
family.
It really was and I enjoy it andI used to go to meetings once
(53:30):
in a while down that way fromout here.
I haven't been in a while.
Last time I was there it wasfor the fellow that his funeral
was at Gabriel Richard Church inRiverview, but before that I
hadn't been there in a while.
But I went to a police meetingand I was on 4th Street south of
Pennsylvania Road, whichPennsylvania Road is the border
of Southgate and Riverview, andthe traffic was so heavy and so
(53:54):
choked up I'm used to the Outhere.
Actually you have to wait tothe some areas out here.
You have to wait till the Amishmove their wagons off the road
so you can get by them.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah, if you're watching this or listening to
this, we are in rural Michigan.
It was quite a drive gettingout here, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, and it's funny, my wife and I moved here by
accident, blindly.
We had fallen in love withSouth Carolina and we loved
Riverview.
We figured when we retired we'dstay in Riverview and maybe go
down to South Carolina for amonth or so in the winter and
we're coming back from.
I always took her to the ThomasEdison Inn in Port Huron for
(54:33):
her birthday and we're comingback with her birthday on 94,
interstate 94.
And she said to me you know,I'd like to buy a place on a
lake.
I pulled over to the shoulderof the road and I said what are
you talking about?
We have two kids, our son'solder than our daughter.
We're very, very close to ourfamily and our daughter,
(54:59):
actually to this day, is one ofmy wife's best friends, if not
her best friend.
She was pregnant with our firstgrandchild.
We are going nowhere.
So so we made a, came up thisway and made a way in here.
We did not want to go up north,nothing against up north, but
we did not want to go up north.
Nothing against up north, butwe didn't want to go up north.
This wasn't your thing.
(55:20):
No, we had been there with herparents and stuff like this, but
we just went.
So we came this way intoJackson County, into Hillsdale
County, and we looked at on theinternet 50-some places and
looked at 30-some in person andwe found this place here.
(55:41):
This is a man-made lake.
It's controlled by a dam, ohokay.
And we found this here inHillsdale, and Hillsdale County
is, uh, by deer it's, it's, it'sover 600 square miles but
(56:01):
there's only like 40,000 people.
And at that time we moved here,uh, uh, the, uh.
I say I still stay in contactwith uh, law enforcement and
stuff.
One of the conservationofficers told me he says, yeah,
there's only, there's 40,000people, he said, but the last
deer count was 56,000.
I've hit three since I've beenhere yeah and um, but uh, we, we
(56:25):
, we absolutely love it here inHillsdale.
It's uh, I'm like I said before.
I'm involved in the community acouple of different ways and my
wife's involved with thecommunity and and everything.
And then our daughter andson-in-law, because my wife
retired two years after me fromteaching.
They lived in our house herefor a year and built a house
close by us, and so the twodaughters graduate from high
(56:48):
school near here.
But we love living in HillsdaleCounty in the country.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
So let's talk about that a little bit too.
So you retired in 2005, right?
So your wife would have retiredin 2007.
Eight or eight, okay.
So it's been almost 20 years ofretirement for both of you.
Other than kind of moving hereand setting up, what have you
been up to?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Well, we came here and I was involved in Kiwanis
for a while.
One of our neighbors got usinvolved in Kiwanis and so I was
involved in that and I likedthat part and giving back.
Well, kiwanis has a statetrooper camp that they have in
the summertime and so I was putin charge with that, being a
retired police officer, the kidsgo through intermediate school
(57:41):
district and they have a statepolice academy for the kids.
It's one week in the summer andso I was in charge of sending
the high school kids fromRiverview that qualified and so
I did that, and then I had somehealth issues so I did continue
(58:02):
in Kiwanis.
I was there quite a few yearsbut I've been involved with the
emergency management and publicsafety here in Hillsdale County.
It's a 911 board, they call it,and I've been involved in that
(58:23):
for 18 years and so we have amonthly meeting.
I had one yesterday and youmeet with all the public safety.
There's police, fire andambulance people there, and then
there's some civilians likemyself who have had connections
with police or fire and thingspeople there, and then there's
some civilians like myself whohave had connections with police
or fire and things like thatand my wife.
(58:44):
She wasn't doing it so much nowbut she was involved with the
Hillsdale County Foundation andsome other people here with
Student of the Year scholarshipsfor the county.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
She's got a state of education yes, with student of
the year scholarships for thecounty she's got a state of
education, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
And then we go to the Perennial Park, the Hillsdale
County Senior Center, and we gothere to exercise and they have
a very, very nice place.
They have a state-of-the-artexercise area downstairs and
everything.
And they had some issues withsome county commissioners.
(59:20):
They wanted to cut funding backfor the senior center even
though they were on a 14-yearmillage, and they couldn't.
They're nice people, the countycommissioners, but they didn't
understand.
They thought that the HillsdaleCounty Perennial Park was just
meals on wheels.
It didn't provide other thingsfood, and you know they have a
(59:42):
gymnasium and they're going tobuild a walking track and things
like this.
And so I went and they weremeeting with the former director
of the Hillsdale County SeniorCenter and they asked a couple
people to come and speak therebecause the county commissioners
were there.
And, like I said, the countycommissioners really didn't have
(01:00:04):
a clue of what they did.
They thought it was just wheelson wheels.
And so I got up and spoke andtalked to them and there was
another retired doctor that wasthere.
He's a good friend Actually.
His daughter was the directorof the perennial park at that
time and they got up and spokeand stuff like this.
And so like a week or so later Ihad one of the they had changed
(01:00:27):
the hierarchy and one of thenew assistant director came to
me and asked me, said we'd likeyou to get on the board for
because we have an opening forperennial park.
I said, I said oh, that's nice.
I said I appreciate that itkeeps me busy and stuff.
I thought they just wantedinsight from someone that
exercised downstairs and workedout and could tell the people
(01:00:48):
about that.
And they said, yes, that's it.
But we also, because you stoodup to the county commissioners
and I said whoops, I got a bigmouth.
And so I've been on theHillsdale County Perennial Park
Senior Board for a year and ahalf and I love it and stuff and
they do a lot of things for theseniors and things like this
(01:01:12):
and it's really really great andstuff like this and it's uh,
it's really really great andstuff.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
So so really, I mean, if you think about your, your
life has been service to your,to your country, to your
community, to whatever communityyou're in.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
You've continued that , that service right, uh,
throughout and and in the, inthe, in the, in the county and
the in the uh and just thecommunity that I give to them,
they give back as well, yeah,and I, and I feel blessed that
they that, they that they do andand everything else like this.
In there there's a wide varietyof people that are on the
(01:01:52):
senior center board.
There's bankers there's.
They have one countycommissioner, just a new one now
.
They have different otherpeople through the community,
different areas and stuff likethis, and it's really nice and
(01:02:19):
it's good for the people andthey have a vision to do a lot
of different things to buildsome, some housing units out at
perennial park and, like I said,put a walking track in.
They have uh, uh fabulousexercise area.
They have everyone some.
They have fundraisers for newexercise equipment.
They they have uh called subsfor fun and so you buy subs.
So my wife and I both, you know, we of course participate and
(01:02:40):
buy subs and people go make subsup and you go pick them up and
you eat them and they, but allthe profits goes to purchasing
new equipment and things likethat.
So it's it's, it's great, yeah,that's really nice actually
it's a nice facility for thecitizens.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Right.
So do you think you'll everactually retire?
No, he's going to keep doingstuff.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Like I said, I tried to go to the senior center.
I was going to go this morningbut I've just been too busy.
I just graduated from thephysical therapy, as I said
before, with my hip replacement,so I just got back into it and
I try to go three days a week.
And I said my wife goes and shealso does cardio drumming as
well as exercising and stuff,and she does that and they have
(01:03:24):
fabulous programs there andstuff like this, and they have
different things and every oneof the people that work
downstairs are certifiedtrainers.
So they know all the equipmentand if you know, you know, have
any questions or you know, youknow, have issues or anything
else like this, they're dead,they're there to help you and
and stuff.
(01:03:44):
So it's, it's, it's, it's aneat facility and stuff and it's
just so fabulous.
Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
You know, out in the country it's, it's a jewel, you
know, it's a gem yeah, but Ithink it'd be very easy to uh be
out in the country and not doanything, because there's just
nothing to do.
So it sounds like you guys havecreated a great space for that.
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Yep, yep, they're good and, as I said, we retired
to the lake here and stuff.
Actually, this house was only acouple years old.
Actually, this house was only acouple years old and the people
we bought from sadly, the ladyjust died, her husband died a
while ago.
They were elderly.
The lot next door went for salebut we've been here 20 years
(01:04:30):
and he felt closed in thatsomebody was going to buy the
lot and build and these peoplebuilt it probably about seven
years ago, but still there'sspace between us and everything.
And they're fabulous neighborsand people next door on the
other side.
They are still working, theylive in the Down River area,
they're going to retire soon,but they're fabulous people too.
(01:04:51):
There's great, great peopleresidents on the lake, so it's
nice.
They do a lot of things likefishing, derbies and junk like
this here and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Always something to do.
Yeah Well, we've talked about alot of things.
We've covered everything frombeing born and growing up in
Pennsylvania to the blind datethat changed everything, and now
you're retired.
But you're not retired.
You've lived quite a great life.
You have children andgrandchildren, and maybe you're
(01:05:23):
inching up into thatgreat-grandchildren area at some
point Not yet, no.
Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
The oldest girl is 22 , or 21.
She's up at Northern MichiganUniversity and she's there.
And we have two that aregraduating high school this year
, one here and one in GrandRapids.
The one in here is going to goto Grand Valley State, where her
parents went and her uncle went, and the other one is going to
(01:05:52):
college in the Grand Rapids area, and then we have one that's
just entering high school.
Wow, that's fantastic, yeah.
So we've got lots of kids andstuff, I guess, and both our son
and our daughter are in themedical field and stuff.
So they're there and we'reproud.
Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Serving as well.
Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Yeah, we're proud of them and everything else like
this, and my wife keeps me inline.
Yeah, serving as well.
Yeah, we're proud of them andeverything else like this, and
my wife keeps me in line.
Yeah, keeps me straight.
The whip marks I have on myback are tremendous.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
So how long have you been married?
Then I didn't do the math 53years.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
53 years, no 54 years .
My apologies, don't want to getthat wrong 1971.
We only have 54 years myapologies, don't want to get
that wrong 1971.
We got 54 years.
We were both very young, we gotmarried and 54 years and we
celebrated our 50th.
It was a big celebration withthe kids and everything else and
we do a lot of things.
I have two brothers One hadpassed away in 2001, the one
(01:06:53):
next to me and I have a brotherin New Hampshire.
I have a brother in Wisconsinand we're very, very close.
My brothers have been here.
Like I said before, my brother,his wife, inherited the place
out in California and so we meetout there a lot of times and go
there.
And my brother took us to SanDiego because we had told him
(01:07:18):
about the USS Midway, yeah, andhe wanted to see it.
He's my youngest brother,younger brother now, and I
thought it was like an hour away.
It wasn't three hours away andmy brother drove and I felt so
terrible.
But we went there and he wasvery happy to see the aircraft
carrier, which I wasn'tstationed on an aircraft carrier
(01:07:40):
, but very happy to see the shipand my helicopters and
everything else like this.
But we're very close to mybrothers and my nieces and
nephews and our children andgrandchildren, nephews and our
children and grandchildren.
My wife is on the phone withour daughter on a constant basis
(01:08:03):
.
We text back and forth on aconstant basis and everything
else like this, and our son anddaughter have been here a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
That's great, that's great.
So, you know, as we kind ofwrap up our conversation this
afternoon, uh, there's alwaysone question that I ask everyone
, and that is, you know, lookingback on your life, if someone's
listening to this years fromnow, what?
No, the dog wants to talk to umyears from now.
So what, what message would youhave for people?
Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Years from now.
So what message would you havefor people?
Life is great.
Like I said, I've been throughsome medical issues and things
like that, but I'm blessed.
Family is great, it'sabsolutely fabulous and things
like this, but life is what youmake of it and you can't get
(01:09:04):
down.
There's bumps in the road butyou always have to pick yourself
up by your bootstraps and keepon moving for health reasons or
any other kind of reason andstuff like this.
And, like I said, I've beenblessed because I have a family
that's so supportive of me andsupportive of all of us together
(01:09:26):
that you know, we know, youknow.
But my extended family as well,my mother's side of the family
especially I get, you know, getelectronic birthday cards from.
I have two uncles and one aunton my mother's side are still
alive and I talk to themelectronically or I call them
(01:09:52):
and stuff.
And then I have a cousin's, mycousin, my first cousin, but
he's our son's age, stuff, andhe's been here and stuff like
this.
He lives in the Poconos inPennsylvania.
He worked in a car designindustry and so he comes out and
goes to like a lot of times inthe Detroit car show and stuff,
(01:10:14):
and so he's come here a numberof times and I've had my one
aunt and uncle from they livenow in the Adirondacks in
upstate New York.
They've come here and stufflike this.
So we're very close to all ofour family, extended and close
family and talk to them and dealwith them on a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Yeah, sounds like family is very important.
Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
It is, it is, it is.
It's sad when you I know ofsome people that have nothing
against getting divorced.
I'm very proud that she's stuckby me all these years and being
a cop and everything else likethis.
But some people that I knowhave had divorces and they have.
They don't know their children,they don't know their
(01:11:02):
grandchildren and stuff likethis.
And you know there's nothingyou can do to change anything
like that.
All you can do is just lookback and reflect on your own.
Yeah, and stuff like this, likethe picture behind you those
are, it's right behind your head.
Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Oh, let me turn around here.
Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Oh yeah, Down to the left is our son and our daughter
.
Up to the left upper are thefour granddaughters.
Up in the upper right is thefour granddaughters again and
then the youngest one up theregiving her thumbs up.
Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Uh-huh, I see Sasha's got a prominent picture there
too.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
And we get actually my son and his ex-wife gave us
that, so we look at that andreflect on that and we have tons
of pictures like goingdownstairs, just tons and tons
of pictures of family membersand things like this and stuff.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Well, I hear Sasha's giving her input as well for
this.
So, yeah, well, I want to saythank you so much for taking
time out of your day to sit hereand talk with me and share your
story.
I'm sure people are going tohear this and learn something
from it.
Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
I don't know about learning something from it, but
it is interesting.
I've had a fabulous, fabulouslife and I'm so blessed and many
people are.
Most people are things likethis.
Obviously, you are, I'velistened to what your background
is and everything else likethis, but life is neat.
(01:12:33):
Life is neat yeah.
So today is Thursday, april 24th 2025.
We're talking with Pat Knight,who served in the United States
Navy.
So good afternoon, pat, goodafternoon.
It's great to see you heretoday, great to see you.
Thanks for coming.
Certainly, certainly, it was awonderful drive here.
Actually, this is a beautiful,beautiful place to be.
We'll start out pretty simplethis afternoon.
(00:20):
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was born March 31st 1948 in Chambersburg,
pennsylvania, which is nearGettysburg, central Pennsylvania
.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
All right, so we're going to figure out how you got
to Michigan then as we gothrough this conversation.
So did you grow up then inPennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, Okay, my mother's family all lived
together and they all moved enmasse.
My mother's family all livedtogether and they all moved en
masse.
We lived in a big house inHarrisburg, Pennsylvania, all of
us together on Green Street andin my mother's family, most of
them moved to the Poconos.
My father was different.
(01:00):
We moved to a city calledSunbury, S-U-N-B-U-R-Y, named
after Sunbury, England.
Actually, in Sunbury there wasa former fort, British fort
there, and a British prison, andthat's where I graduated high
school in 1966.
Now, did you have brothers andsisters?
(01:21):
I had three brothers, brothersand sisters.
And I had three brothers.
Your mom must have been a verybusy person.
Yes, and they're all youngerthan me.
I was the oldest.
Uh-huh, actually they're halfbrothers, but they were never
considered that.
My father's, my adoptedstepfather, but he was a
fabulous, fabulous man.
When he first married my mother, he grabbed me by the scuff of
the neck and said come on, youbelong to me.
(01:44):
And when he always introducedus we were numerical I was
number one, my brother Bert wasnumber two, et cetera, et cetera
.
So I was always considered that.
But I was very, very close toboth my mother and my father and
they took I did okay in highschool, but it was.
(02:11):
I don't know if I shouldcontinue.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
The draft, vietnam was exploding.
Then I graduated in 1966 fromhigh school, as I said, right,
the draft was exploding and theydidn't have the lottery draft,
they had the straight-up draftand those that weren't in the
military weren't married withchildren or weren't in college.
(02:37):
This was a town of about a cityof about 15,000 people and I
got my half day off school inMarch of my senior year to go
register for the draft and theywere sucking people up left and
right, you know, and everybodywas, and they were drafting Army
(03:00):
, of course, but they also Idon't know if you were aware of
it they drafted into the MarineCorps.
I didn't realize that.
Oh yes, they did.
I think they counted it off asa joke, whether they did it or
not.
But they went 1-2-3 Marine Corps, 1-2-3 Marine Corps, 1-2-3
Marine Corps, and so I enlistedin the Navy to take care of and
(03:23):
go to school and stuff like this.
But I was having trouble with agirl when I was growing up and
I enlisted in the Navy with thepromise of nothing, I knew
everything you know, and stuff.
Oh yeah, and then when I was, Igraduated high school June of
1966, as I said before, Igraduated high school June of
(03:48):
1966, as I said before, and Iwas deferred and I went on
reserve duty until December andI got sent to Great Lakes Naval
Training Center four days beforeChristmas.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Oh, let's talk about that.
So Great Lakes, which is inIllinois, north of Chicago, it's
wintertime and you're there.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
It was the coldest winter in the history of Chicago
.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
they said what was it like for you stepping off that
Now?
Did you take the train or wereyou by bus?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I took a bus from Sunbury, pennsylvania, to
Harrisburg.
I got on a train, I rode thetrain to Chicago and then I rode
a local train to Waukegan, yep,and then I went from there to
boot camp and stuff like this.
But my mother is funny.
When I was in boot camp shewould mail me packages and she
(04:46):
used to say she was a dramaqueen.
She used to say when I would goto the post office to mail you
packages, the tears would freezeto my cheeks.
Oh, I could picture a momsaying something like that.
And, like I said, my scoreswere great but I was mad at the
world.
Like I said, over a girl.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I wish I had a nickel for every time I started a
statement with.
I had this problem with a girl,yeah, and I made this decision
because of it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And.
But I was blessed somehow Idon't know how, or anything else
, I guess.
When I came out my scores weregreat in the Navy, my scores
were great in boot camp and whenI came out I was sent to
Imperial Beach, california.
It was a Naval Auxiliary AirStation at that time, naval
(05:37):
Auxiliary Air Station in ReamField, imperial Beach,
california, san Diego.
Okay, so it's out by San Diego.
It is right, it's just south ofSan Diego, it's like Chula
Vista in that area.
It's right in there.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And so I went to Helicopter Combat Support
Squadron 1 there and I spentfrom April until end of
September into October there.
They formed a new squadron inHC-7, helicopter Combat Support
(06:16):
Squadron 7, which was at thattime it was dedicated to combat
search and rescue home based atSugi, japan big naval air
station there, and I left there,left California in September of
1967 and went to the base wasformed.
(06:39):
It was at Atsugi, japan, atAtsugi, japan, and I went there
and I spent two years there atAtsugi and I came home in
October of 1969.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So let's talk about some of your time in Japan.
I know, prior to us doing therecording, you had told me this
story about how you and your dadhad actually stayed in the same
barracks, like 20 years apart.
Yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
My father was in the Army Air Corps in World War II
and they called it points.
He didn't have enough points tocome home and so he was in.
I'm drawing a blank on hisbases.
He wasn't stationed at Atsugi,he was there a short time but
(07:30):
when I showed him pictures ofthe base and everything else
like this, we figured that weprobably slept in the same
barracks 20-some years apartbarracks 353, and stuff like
that.
And that's where I went toschool, there for air crew
school.
I started out in California butI went to school and finished
up my air crew school in JapanTsugami, not Tsugami at Sugi,
(07:58):
japan, the naval air stationthere.
And, like I said, we were inthe East Camp they called it,
and West Camp was all Marinesand of course we would always
butt our heads with the Marinesand stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
That's what Navy guys do yeah, and it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I met this Marine aviator.
The East Camp was all Marineaviation and they had different
planes and things like thisthere and I was out on the
runway or the tarmac, tarmac yeson the tarmac and I saw this
(08:39):
marine aviator and he came to meand he says why are we fighting
?
I said, well, because you're inthe Marine Corps and I'm in the
Navy.
He said we're aviation marines.
We don't blouse our trousers,we don't cut our hair.
He says we're just like youguys.
And I was very fortunate andeverything and it was fabulous.
We had at that time we flew inthe H-2 made by command in
(09:06):
Connecticut.
It was a small utilityhelicopter and the Navy version
was designed for utility andthey modified it for search and
rescue.
They put in some bulletproofpanels for the engine, the
(09:28):
transmission, the pilot and theco-pilot.
Had doors that snapped up.
They were bulletproof doors.
We had a little plate that weswung up and we could kneel
behind it and stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So you knew where to go, just in case, but it was a
small space.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right, and it was a good helicopter and we, like I
said, it was a utilityhelicopter and stuff like this,
and we then deployed todifferent areas of Asia from
there.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was that your home base, then it?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
was Atsugi right Naval Air Station Atsugi, japan.
We had a permanent detachmentin QB Point, subic Bay and that
was the jumping-off point forthe guys for Vietnam.
They would deploy aboard guidedmissile frigates.
Like I said, there'd be an 8 to10-man detachment, one bird,
(10:28):
the guided missile frigate, hadan asphalt steel landing
platform on the tail end.
The newer ones were upper level.
They had that and we were therewith that and slept where we
could.
A lot of times we slept in thecookers, cook's quarters of the
baker's quarters.
(10:48):
That was nice because for midrats, midnight, midnight rations
, they would bring us back foodat night.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So always good to have a baker on a destroyer or a
frigate.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, this is and this is nice.
We, uh, we, we.
We liked it a lot.
We were very, very close,obviously, to our pilots.
We weren't considered likeofficers and enlisted men, we
were considered a crew andeverything was great and stuff
like this.
I remember in the first stormit wasn't a monsoon but it was a
pretty good storm and I was allupset because we kept rolling
(11:23):
in the troughs of the waves andstuff and I'm guessing I was
like pure white and this oldbosun's mate was there, an old
salt, and he goes hey boy, don'tworry about a thing, because we
only roll over so far and themast snap off and it writes
itself.
But we also.
(11:43):
When we were in the storms ourhelicopter was back on the
little miniature flight decklanding platform and it was
chained down.
Well, the junior guy had to goout with a come along when we
were in a storm and made surethat the chains were tight.
So the helicopter didn't moveand I was very glad that I got
(12:05):
seniority quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So you weren't that junior guy that had to do that?
Not very often.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
We rotated some around and stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So you were an air crewman, but what was your
specific job?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I was an aviation structural mechanic, an AMS, but
I never worked in my ratebecause I flew and my NECs were
both flight NECs and stuff andit was like it was air crew plus
.
Then it was combat, search andrescue the two.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
NECs.
So you went to that SAR school,then the search and rescue
school.
Yes, I went to that.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But then there was a different one.
They came out later with SEERschool and I went back to
California from Asia and I wentto the SEER school and we had
switched to a two-engine modeland so I went to a plane
(13:09):
captain's school for thetwo-engine model and actually I
was the first, I believe I wasthe first plane captain from the
UH-2C, the two-engine model inthe Western Pacific.
And I came back to Atsugi andyou know, kubi Point and Suik
Bay, but we went to Sear Schooland I was just amazed at that
(13:33):
with how they worked, that andstuff like this.
And we had, you know, madesleeping bags and tents out of
parachutes and it was in WarnerSprings and we did all that
stuff and then the aggressorswould come through at night,
tear our tents down and they hadautomatic weapons firing blanks
(13:56):
, right, and they would shoot upthe thing and start to get you
gone and stuff like this.
And we went there and there wasa series where we had
navigation and we were taught tonavigate so we could find our
way in case we were shot down.
And there was a fresh officer Iput it that way who knew more
(14:26):
than anybody, of course, and wewere going back and we went down
and there's this barbed wirethere and they said in the
briefing don't cross the barbedwire.
And I told this officer thatand he said I'm a commissioned
officer, you do what I say.
(14:50):
So we went down over this hilland they were loading the
prisoners into trucks and wewere captured early.
So we were there early in thecompound and they put us in
black boxes and they would haveus kneel and cross our legs and
kneel and bend over, and theywould.
They were like plywood stuff,like this boxes.
(15:13):
They had different ones thereand they'd come along and they
seemed to.
I'm guessing what they did was.
I never asked for anything elselike this, but we didn't hear a
lot of people speaking English.
They had, like these were allNavy people but they had like
Mexican-Americans and they hadlike different other ones like
(15:35):
this when they were around usthey didn't speak in English and
stuff.
They'd come along and theywould pound on the boxes and
you'd have to recite yourprisoner number.
I remember the one time I got intoo big of a box.
I rolled over and fell asleep.
They pounded on the box andthey pulled me out and they
(15:56):
whacked me.
There was a Red Cross area thatyou could go and stuff like
this and everything else and itwas like a big, huge tent with a
wooden platform and stuff.
But there was a place that youcould sneak out of and escape
(16:17):
and another guy told me aboutthat, so I would get that and if
you escaped you got a hamsandwich and a glass of milk.
Oh yeah, so we did that andstuff.
But we went there and I thinkabout it.
I've been by there WarnerSprings many years later.
I just went by there justrecently and saw the sign for
Warner Springs for the city.
(16:37):
I'm sure it's long closed.
I thought about my time inSears School.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, probably the best ham sandwich you ever ate
there too, right, yeah, andstuff but uh.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
But then we went back .
I went back uh, to uh, japanand we deployed and everything
and we went on differentdeployments, um and and things
like that and um, and then in inuh, we were in at sugi had.
We were the only helicopterNavy helicopter squadron at
(17:08):
Atsugi Naval Air Station andthen they had all sorts of other
transport squadrons andeverything else like this.
For the Navy they had a spysquadron VQ-1, fleet
Reconnaissance Squadron 1.
And they flew EC-121s and sothey flew those out of there and
(17:32):
did tracking into the Sea ofJapan and over North Korea and
things like that, and probablydown into Vietnam, north Vietnam
and stuff.
Yeah, down into Vietnam, northVietnam and stuff yeah.
But in April of 69, the NorthKoreans I think there was like
(17:55):
three or four North Korean MiGsshot down a EC-121 from Atsugi.
It was not on a track, theyusually ran with a flight crew
of like 12.
There were 31 people on board.
There were a good number ofpeople on board just for flight
(18:17):
time.
There were even Marines onboard and they shot it down you
can look it up and stuff likethis because it was there and
they went into the Sea of Japanand we were diverted north.
I was on the USS Dale and wewere diverted north and we were
(18:41):
there and it was.
I thought there was threecarriers up there at that time,
but there was a fellow here inHillsdale that I met was on
another aircraft carrier.
He said no, there were fourcarriers up there, so they were
ready to go to war with NorthKorea.
Yeah, and then when we woke upone morning we were there quite
(19:01):
a while searching for him.
When we woke up one morning, wewere there quite a while
searching for him and the onlybody we found, sadly, was the
man who was in my squadron inHC-7.
He was married to a foreignnational and he was having
trouble getting his kids back tothe States, so he transferred
(19:22):
into VQ-1.
He was in aviation, so hetransferred into VQ-1.
He was in aviation.
He was an AT, an electronicstechnician.
Dick Sweeney was his name.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
He was the only body we found, so out of all 31
people.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You never found anyone no we never found anyone
and, like I said, the carrierswere there.
And then we woke up one morning.
Oh, I'll back up a little bit.
We had all sorts of planesflying around and I never
realized how big a Russian bearbomber was.
And we had one fly by us andthe tail, the big red star on it
(20:03):
, was as big as our helicopter.
And the co-pilot just gave us awave and I said over to the
intercom, because we had an M60machine gun on the left-hand
door, the crew door, and I saidover the intercom.
I said to the crew, I said hey,how about if I just wave this
M60 at them?
Well, the pilot, timMalachowski, said Knight, if you
(20:24):
move, we'll kill you.
They don't want to tangle withthe Russian bear, no.
But then after that everyoneleft and we were the only one
there.
We didn't have any supportships or anything.
So we stayed there and it wasus and a Russian destroyer.
The Russian destroyer would goback into port every night.
(20:45):
Vladivostok, it's that farsouth end.
So you were Close.
We were up at the north end ofNorth Korea and stuff.
We would follow them in andthen follow them back out.
And we refueled US militaryships, refueled side to side
(21:07):
with the oilers.
They refueled end to end.
When we refueled, they wouldpull behind us and act as a
lifeguard in case someone felloverboard or something like this
.
When they refueled, we pulledbehind them and acted as a
lifeguard.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Wow, that's nice.
A little detente back in the60s behind them and acted as a
limerick Wow that's nice, alittle detente back in the 60s.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So yeah, we were there and stuff like this, but
we were quite quite.
The HC-7 was quite a busy, busysquadron.
They made just under.
They were there from 1967, as Isaid, in late summer and they
came back to the States and theywere decommissioned in 75 when
(21:54):
Saigon fell back to thecommunists.
I was long gone.
I left in 1969.
I was there two years Right.
But they made I think it was148 rescues out of North Vietnam
in the area, waters and stuff.
But it was good duty, very,very good duty.
(22:14):
The camaraderie wasunbelievable with the men.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, you got to have , when you're doing that kind of
work, you got to have thosekind of friendships.
Oh, we were tight.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And there was no such thing.
As you know, you did treat themwith respect, but there was no
such thing as officers andenlisted men, because we were
all together, Right and stuff,and, like I said, we flew and
had a, we had a good time andstuff like that, and off duty,
you know, we went back to thePhilippines or back to Japan.
(22:43):
Of course, then you treated himwith respect and everything,
but it was always real good duty.
I remember once back up inJapan anyone could fly, left
seat in a helicopter you canhave you know a list of men.
So I was dragged out of my bunk, out of my rack, on a Sunday
(23:05):
morning by an officer I knewvery, very well and he wanted me
to fly with him.
So I had thought he neededflight time for the month and
stuff it's the only way theydon't Well.
His I can't remember if it washis girlfriend or his wife was
there.
She was.
He knew I was from.
(23:27):
My family lived in NewHampshire.
His wife or girlfriend,whatever she was, was in the
Miss.
I think she was Miss NewHampshire, oh.
And so he took her on thehelicopter.
When we were airborne he had meleave and go in the back.
We were in the H2.
He had his girlfriend come upand sit in the back.
We were in the H-2.
He had his girlfriend come upand sit in the co-pilot seat, in
(23:48):
the left seat, and so we flewjust around the base and stuff
like that, and then we got backand we changed and stuff.
So it's always interesting.
I have a lot of you know funnystories.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Oh yeah, a lot of good memories from there.
So did you guys fly a lot ofgood memories from there?
Oh yeah, so did you guys fly alot of search and rescue
missions then, while you werethere.
Yes, yes, Okay, so it was….
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, like I said, we went to… we were out of Hatsugi
or, I'm sorry, out of KewpiePoint, and then we would fly off
the guided missile frigates,the DLGs, and we always told the
pilots, whenever we briefed thepilots, the aircraft carrier
(24:31):
pilots, that if you get hit, getfeet wet, In other words, bail
out over the ocean like a TonkinGulf.
Your chances of survivalskyrocket if you do that.
Your chances of survivalskyrocket if you do that.
So we always had two crewmen.
Like I said, we were in a smallhelicopter.
First crewman stayed in thehelicopter, maintained radio
(24:54):
contact, the hoist and the M60machine gun on the left-hand
door.
Plus we had a rack of oneshoulder-mounted M60 and then
some M16s on the right-hand sideand everyone had you know 45
and stuff like this with them.
But we always had a guy thatwas always dressed as a swimmer.
(25:16):
He had, you know, the big swimfins ocean-going swim fins and a
mask and a vest.
The vest had a small flotationthing in it, had a D-ring in it
that you could hook up yourselfto when you got the pilot, and a
big K-bar knife and of course,the little CO bottles and stuff.
(25:38):
And it's interesting, later inlife, later on we had a guy
who's dead now.
Phil Poison was his name.
Ran the reunion association formy overseas helicopter squadron
.
Phil Poison lived in San Diego.
Put out to everyone did anyonehave this swimmer's vest?
(25:59):
They wanted to put it ondisplay.
And my wife said isn't that whatthe kids used to play with when
we lived in Riverview?
So I found it in the garagehere in Hillsdale and I went out
there and I took the knife outand the CO bottles out and it
had my name embroidered on itUSN on the other side and I sent
(26:21):
it off to Phil Poison on theother side.
And I sent it off to PhilPoison.
And the USS Midway isdecommissioned.
It's a floating museum in SanDiego Harbor and he gave it to
them for display.
Well, my wife and I went outthere and I went all over the
(26:48):
ship and stuff like this andthere's three of my helicopters
on the flight deck and the H-2,the H-3, and the H-46 are on the
flight deck and I went down andasked the people down in the
end of the display in the hangardeck if my stuff was there and
he says no.
He says I bet you it's still instorage.
(27:10):
So my brother and his familyhave a place in California,
southern California.
He lives in New Hampshire still, but we went out there to visit
him and we went there and Itook my brother there and on the
flight deck, as I said, there'san H-2, h-3, and H-46.
(27:30):
And then down in the hangararea there's a display for
search and rescue and it's allenclosed in plexiglass so no one
can touch anything.
And there's my first skipper'scoffee mug and there's the a
(27:51):
copy of the Medal of Honorcertificate from one of our
pilots, Clyde Lassen, that wonthe Medal of Honor, and there's
some other things there for andeverything else.
And over in the other sidethere's this enclosed area where
is this swimmer's vest, butit's turned around so you can't
(28:13):
see my name on it, whatever, forwhatever reason.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So but it's there so so your, your vest lives on 15
seconds of fame.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
So when I go out there, when I go to california,
I'm gonna go see your vest yeah,it's lloyd parthomer's coffee
cup and yeah, and uh andeverything and and, like I said
there's.
And then Clyde Lassen he wasjust such a nice man died of
cancer later.
Oh, life down in Florida.
Not not service-related, yeah,but but yeah it was, it was nice
(28:45):
and, like I said, I love flyingand it was.
It was just really really great, great.
We, as I told you before weeven got to, fly Bob Hope, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
So I think, before we leave Vietnam, you need to tell
me what's this Bob Hope storyall about.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I shared a house out in Japan, in what they call the
Japanese economy, with a fellowwho was in charge of assigning
all enlisted crewmen throughoutthe squadron and he and I were
best friends and so when thetime came up to fly Bob Hope, we
flew him, of course, in theH-46.
And, as I said before, I wasthe first crewman in the H-2.
(29:40):
I wasn't the first crewman inthe H-46, but anyone can fly a
second crewman, and so I got tofly Bob Hope in 1968.
And he was such a nice man andmost Hollywood stars, you know
their kids didn't go in themilitary, but Bob Hope and his
(30:00):
wife Dorothy, their childrenwere all adopted and his son
Kelly I think that was hismiddle name, it wasn't his first
name.
Kelly Hope was a Navy corpsmanand he was at a time stationed
at the big Army hospital in Zama, japan, and so you know we were
assigned to fly Bob Hope and wewere there and Jerry Colonna
(30:27):
and Martha Ray and Ann Margaretand a bunch of them I can't
remember all the stars werethere.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Anne Margaret's, the only one that matters to me,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And stuff and they were all dancing on the flight
deck with them and stuff likethis and it was fabulous.
And then, as you know, at theshows all the wounded sat in the
front row.
Yeah Well, we sat to the rightor to the left.
There's four of us pilot,co-pilot, two enlisted fliers,
(30:58):
and we were there at his showsand stuff like this.
But later on in life, and wewere living out here in
Hillsdale, my two adult childrenbought me the DVDs Bob, the
Vietnam years and second DVD.
In comes this H-46 helicopternumber 50, with my squadron's
emblem on it, with some goofyguy hanging out the front door
(31:21):
window.
No, so there's my 15 seconds offame.
But he was, like I said, sonice to us the first stop we
made.
We got out of the helicopter,he had the stars line up and he
took us down and introduced usto every single star and we just
felt like we were somethingspecial and he made us feel so
(31:44):
great.
He was such a nice man.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Well, that's a great experience, yeah, yeah, because
sometimes you meet people likethat and they're not so nice,
but it sounds like this was, oh,bob Hope was just fabulous,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And all the entertainers were there.
They were really good peopleand stuff like this.
And it's interesting, we hadparachute riggers were the guys
who did all of our sewing for us.
Parachute riggers were the guyswho did all of our sewing for
us.
And my name tag my leather nametag on my flight jacket and
(32:18):
then the ones on Velcro that Ihad on my flight suits.
They had my air crew wings onit and had.
At that time I was just anairman but it said P Knight on
it.
And there was an incident thathappened in the Philippines and
I kind of saved this oneparachute rigger's butt for
something and he told meanything you want, you got it.
(32:39):
I said you know something?
I'd like my name tag to say PatKnight, not P Knight.
So I did that and I'm helpingone of the stars down the steps
of the 46.
And she grabbed me by myshoulders and gave me a big
smooch, big kiss and asked mePat Knight, how have you been?
I thought she remembered mefrom before and I showed this
(33:02):
and told this story years laterwhen I was in the police
department in Riverview and Ihad some police over and stuff
like this and I told them thisstory and they said hey,
blankety blank, she didn'tremember you, she read your name
tag.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Oh, all those years you were believing the wrong
thing.
So you burst my bubble.
Yeah, so, so you were in forhow many years then?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Two.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I was in.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I was in the Navy for for just under four years.
It was three years nine months.
I got an early out in Septemberof 70 because I was registered
to go to the University of NewHampshire, okay and stuff.
So I got early out.
So I spent three years inmultiple months in active duty,
(33:50):
of course, two years in activeduty and stuff.
And if it hadn't been for theNavy I wouldn't be sitting here.
My wife is from Wyandotte,michigan.
She was going to WesternMichigan University at the time
and her and her girlfriend, bothfrom Wyandotte and they went to
Western at the Western, wentout to California, to Imperial
(34:14):
Beach in San Diego area to seeher sister-in-law who was her
best friend in Wyandotte HighSchool.
Her brother was in the Navy.
He was on the USS BonhommeRichard the aircraft carrier.
He did catapults and I met myfuture wife on a blind date in
(34:34):
Imperial Beach, california.
So if I hadn't been for the Navybecause I came back and I was
with a kid from a man, kid fromToledo, and he flew in the H-3.
He flew aboard the carrierswith the H-3.
But we went he said he wantedto stop in these apartments in
Imperial Beach to see his buddyfrom Toledo.
(34:56):
So we went in to see him andScott Boyer was the man's name,
and this is his wife, sharon.
He was out on an aircraftcarrier which was my future
brother-in-law's aircraftcarrier, the Bonhomer Shard, the
Bonnie Dick.
They were doing carrier qualls,getting ready to go back to
(35:18):
Vietnam, and she said boy, haveI got two girls for you guys to
meet?
How about tonight?
Well, it was Sunday night.
We had all been together up inLa Jolla up at one of the guys'
parents' place.
We had a big party and stuff.
We didn't even destroy theparents' place, you didn't wreck
anything.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
No, we were good.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And she said how about tonight?
And I said how about Tuesday?
We both flew Tuesday night, wegot flight pay.
They'll think we're rich.
So we met them and he ended upRon Stahl was his name and we
ended up meeting the two ladies.
Rosemary Adamus was the otherlady, my wife was Kathy Lake at
(36:01):
that time and we met them andeverything else like this.
And Ron Stahl, like I said, wasfrom Toledo and he ended up
marrying Rose.
Sadly, he was killed in amotorcycle accident in Toledo.
Oh, not his fault, yeah, andstuff.
But she's made out well.
She was a teacher as well, assame as my wife Mm-hmm, and she
(36:25):
married her principal in hersecond marriage and she had two
kids and they were all there,all'm sure grown up now and
everything, but it all sort ofturned out.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
So you were from Pennsylvania, you met a gal from
Michigan out in California.
Sounds like the date wentpretty well, but then she went
home and you went home, I wentback.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
After I got out of the Navy I went to New Hampshire
, yeah, and we got there and wedid long distance uh telephoning
and writing between Concord,New Hampshire, and Wyandotte,
michigan, and um, we knew eachother 13 months and we got
married.
We got married in Wyandotte andwe settled uh uh in in uh down
(37:08):
river in in in Wyandotte and andum, uh, I worked at various car
dealerships and stuff asservice manager and things like
that.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Then I uh well, before we get too far, though I
want to.
I want to point something outto people listening to.
This is that when you'retalking long distance at that
time it was, it was longdistance call, so you paid for
the call or you wrote letters,right, and um, you know
the-month longest relationship.
Looking at it from today'sperspective, it seems like wow,
(37:37):
that kind of happened kind ofquick.
But you really get to knowsomeone when you hand write a
letter to them, right?
I mean, is that what happened?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yes, and we still have a good number of those
letters here, and stuff likethis, and I did go back and
forth and she came to NewHampshire my parents, we did go
back and forth and I came toMichigan and everything else and
her father was in the Navy inWorld War II and, as I mentioned
(38:03):
before, my father was in theArmy Air Corps in World War II
and both my parents wereteachers.
My father-in-law worked forDetroit Edison and we got
married in Wyandotte.
Like I said, 13 months after wemet and we actually my parents
(38:25):
still in their home inPennsylvania where I grew up and
so we went back there where Igrew up and so we went back
there, which was a big mistake,and she was very, very nice to
me, my wife, my brand-new brideand we stayed there for a very
short time and then we came backto Michigan and then I worked
(38:49):
at some car dealers as like themaintenance manager and things
like this at car dealers andstuff and parts manager.
And then in 1973, I was hiredon the Riverview Police
Department.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Now, is this something you had like always
wanted to do, or is this justsomething that kind of like oh,
this looks like a goodopportunity.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I did something and I had applied to Michigan State
Police and stuff, and I think itwas probably for me working in
the government, with being inthe Navy and stuff like this,
and you know my, you knowteachers and government workers,
right things like this and andI just you know, applied to,
(39:39):
like I said, the Michigan StatePolice and Riverview police and
I I was playing oh, I back up atone step.
I was, like I said, servicemanager at South Point Dodge in
Taylor, michigan, and I wasgolfing on the Riverview Golf
Course, which is still there.
The pro came out and he was oneof the teachers in Riverview
(40:04):
and he said that your guy didn'tshow up and this guy didn't
show up.
I'm going to pair you with him,is that okay?
I said, sure, I'm a terriblegolfer, but we'll do it.
And the man was the.
He was a part-time mayor of thecity of Riverview, chet Belak
(40:24):
was his name, and so we golfedand he asked me what I did and
everything else like this and,like I said I had applied to
Michigan State Police andeverything else like this, he
asked me did you ever thinkabout being a policeman?
I said, yes, I did.
And he says, well, we're hiring, he says.
But I voted against it becausewe have too many policemen.
(40:46):
So I applied to RiverviewPolice and I was hired, and that
was 1973.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
And you didn't list him as a reference, did you no?
And you worked there for howlong?
32 years, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
So you had quite a career, right, and I retired as
chief of police.
As I joke with people, I shouldhave stayed in the union.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I've heard that story from a lot of people.
Politicians still be crazy.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
But I loved it.
I did everything From patrolwork all the way up to chief of
police.
I worked in traffic for manyyears the traffic bureaus they
called it.
I was just a patrolman but Idid all the school programs and
(41:40):
things like that.
It was interesting and stuff.
I worked in the detectivebureau.
I worked the road for a shortwhile.
They rotated shifts every sevendays so it got tough on you and
your body, tough on you andyour family and stuff.
(42:00):
I worked the 32 years.
I probably worked the majorityof them straight day shift with
the detective bureau and thingslike that.
And things came back around.
I mean always, you know, goodstuff for me.
I, you know, was there andstuff like this and we had a.
(42:22):
I worked all the.
I was in charge of the auxiliarypolice, as I said before, so I
went to all the basketball games, football games and things like
that.
And they had a Catholic highschool in Riverview.
They did not have their ownfootball field, they utilized
Riverview's public schoolfootball field.
(42:42):
So I took my auxiliary policeand I went to their games and
worked their games.
Well, I was of the opinion that, of the opinion that you know
you're nice to people and stuff,especially kids.
If you caught kids doingsomething, you didn't lock them
up, you kicked them in the butt.
(43:03):
It's a small town, so youcontacted their parents and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Everybody knows everybody.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, and if you caught kids with beer you make
them pour it out.
You know, rant and rave andscream at them.
And I went throughnon-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
Hey, I'm cured here in Michiganat Henry Ford Jackson, Henry
Ford Allegiance, and I wasgetting some very nasty you know
(43:31):
, I said non-Hodgkin's lymphomavery nasty chemotherapy because
my cancer was very fast growingand so I was about to get my
first chemo infusion.
I'm lying on the table and thisinfusion nurse is there and
she's about to poke me with thisneedle, with R-CHOP and that's
the acronym for all this stuff,and it was like nasty stuff.
(43:51):
Um, I could not kiss my wifefor a number of days.
Whenever I this is gross, but Iurinated, my urinated orange and
I couldn't even let my dog lickme because the stuff radiated
through my skin, right.
But this nurse leans down andlooks at me and she said I know
(44:13):
you, I remember you, you made uspour our beer out.
And she said I know you, Iremember you, you made us pour
our beer out.
She was from Roseo, michigan,went to Gabriel Richard High
School and I caught them in theparking lot with beer, I guess
and made them pour it out andkicked their butts and sent them
home to their parents.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
This is not the time you want to remember that story,
right?
While she's getting ready topoke her in the needle, though,
yeah and it was funny.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
It was funny how things go around and stuff, but
it was great.
And, like I said, people guysfrom my squadron said your stuff
is it related to dioxin?
I said I don't know, I don'tthink so, I don't think it's the
right type.
I said, but I don't care.
I I said I don't know, I don'tthink so, I don't think it's the
right type.
(44:58):
I said but I don't care, I'mcured so I didn't go to the VA.
I do have a 10% disability forhearing Right.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
So from helicopter jet engine noise or machine gun
noise, they said so you wentthrough your cancer treatment
while you were still a policeofficer then.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
No, we were out here, I was retired, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah Well, I do want to ask you a question about your
time, because you know a lot ofmy family friends are police
officers.
In fact, I worked part-time fora while and you know cops have
a million stories and we don'thave time for a million stories.
(45:40):
But I would like to know, like,when you think back on your
time doing police work, what'slike maybe one or two things
that really like stick out inyour mind that you're either
proud of or that just somethingthat you remember when you think
back on that time?
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Well, I was very, very proud to do and, like I
said, work with the kids andwork with the people and stuff
like this.
And I had very, very close ties, not just because my wife was a
teacher very close ties to theschool district and everything
else like this.
But Riverview was just afabulous, fabulous place to work
(46:12):
.
But in those days it wasMichigan state law that police
officers had to live in the citythey served, so that helped me
out tremendously, being fromPennsylvania and not being from
from down river in in inRiverview.
Um, so you got to know everyoneand and it was uh, when I
retired they had a retirementparty for me.
(46:34):
I was very thankful for that.
I had well over 200 people cometo my retirement party.
I had, of course, federal lawenforcement, state law
enforcement, county, local, myown people come and stuff like
this.
But the amount of citizens,especially older people from the
Downriver area, that paid 25bucks a ticket to come to my
(46:58):
retirement party, I stood at thepodium and I cried and my wife
just said to me maybe it'sbecause you did a good job and
stuff and and I have, I havegreat, great, uh, uh memories of
of the riverview policedepartment.
It was just a fabulous place towork.
I stay in contact with a lot ofpeople there.
(47:24):
The little side note one of theformer graduates of Riverview is
a guy by the name of Lloyd CarrJr.
He is a former head footballcoach at University of Michigan,
before Harbaugh.
He was in 1997, he took him tothe national championship and
(47:47):
he's such a nice, nice man andsadly, the last three times I've
seen him and I've seen him alot since then have been at
funerals.
His second wife passed away.
Uh, I didn't see him at my, mykid's graduation because his
stepson went to uh uh GrandValley state with our daughter
(48:10):
and um, uh, my guy, I got hiredwith uh Riverview.
Uh, he just passed away.
So Lloyd was at his funeral.
He lives out here in the areaand he doesn't drive, his family
drives him, but he's just sucha nice, nice man.
But the people of Riverview,they accepted me and they were
(48:32):
just so nice and they treated melike one of their own.
And you know the schooldistrict where my wife worked
and the city employees were allintegrated.
You know they were, we were inthe same credit union and things
like that and I have I just Iforgot all about it.
But just before I retired as apolice officer, I was named
(48:54):
police officer of the year andthey had the awards ceremony,
where I got the thing around myneck and stuff because I just
found the DVD downstairs and but, like I said, the memories of
working in the city of Riverviewand with the people and the
(49:17):
citizens, the citizens were justso great and sadly, like I said
, police officers don't have tolive where they serve anymore
because when John Engler wasgovernor he changed it, which it
should be, and now they've goneoutside.
The last two chiefs of policethat have been there have not
(49:40):
come up through the ranks.
The guy there now works inanother downriver city and they
had another one from DearbornPolice that was there and sadly,
the people that are moving upthe police they can't do that
because there's nothing at thetop anymore.
Right, it's sad.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Well, I think some of your best leaders come from
inside the ranks.
There, you know.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Well, yeah, when I was deputy chief and when I was
named chief of police, I lookedat the lieutenants that were
there and I knew them all very,very well.
I got along with them andeverything else like this.
But I thought I don't think Iwant to work side by side with
them on a regular basis likethat.
So I went down and chose asergeant.
(50:31):
He was a detective sergeant.
I worked with him when I was inthe detective bureau.
I knew that he was rock solidand he would have my back and he
would do the job.
So I named him deputy chief.
I try to hurt some people'sfeelings and probably upset some
people, but then he becamechief when I retired.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Right, Well, you're the chief, you get to make those
decisions Right.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
And, like I said, I really enjoyed police work.
Riverview was very safe, theDown River communities were very
, very safe and it was nice.
And I remember that, other thanat the range, I fired my gun
one time.
Other than at the range, Ifired my gun one time.
(51:18):
There was two fellows that hadescaped from one of the prisons
in Jackson and they had stolen acar and they were downriver and
we saw them and we were chasingthem and we went to.
They drove into Trenton, a citysouth of us, and it was the 4th
of July and it was a Sunday.
(51:40):
I remember that distinctly andI drove in and they get out of
their car and they're runningahead of me and they were
running into a court and I'm nowin the city of, like I said, in
the city of Trenton, and I'mchasing them and I pulled out my
weapon and hollered hold orI'll shoot.
(52:00):
But I had the time and presenceof mind.
I looked over the shoulder ofthe guy as he's running, he's
armed but he's not pointing hisgun at me.
There's a man sitting in his.
He's in a court.
He's sitting in his family roomyeah, I think it was family
room and he's got a bathrobe onreading the Sunday paper, and
(52:24):
he's right over the shoulder ofthe man I had.
So I fired into the ground andblew up some guy's zucchini
patch.
Oh no, and it was funny.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
You can't do that anymore either.
No, no, warning shots right?
No, no, but I did that so thatwas.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
But they kept going and the Trenton cops caught them
.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
But it was funny.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So the whole time you're on the police force you
had children, right?
Yes, and how many children didyou have?
Two, two, we have a son and adaughter, okay, so they grew up
in.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Riverview.
They went to school andgraduated high school in
Riverview yes, those poor kids.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Their mom's a teacher and their dad's a cop.
They can't get away withanything.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
No, but they never.
You know, living in the city ofRiverview, it was good for them
.
They never faced any adversityfrom their fellow students or
anything else like this, and itwas a good place to raise a
family.
It really was and I enjoy it andI used to go to meetings once
(53:30):
in a while down that way fromout here.
I haven't been in a while.
Last time I was there it wasfor the fellow that his funeral
was at Gabriel Richard Church inRiverview, but before that I
hadn't been there in a while.
But I went to a police meetingand I was on 4th Street south of
Pennsylvania Road, whichPennsylvania Road is the border
of Southgate and Riverview, andthe traffic was so heavy and so
(53:54):
choked up I'm used to the Outhere.
Actually you have to wait tothe some areas out here.
You have to wait till the Amishmove their wagons off the road
so you can get by them.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah, if you're watching this or listening to
this, we are in rural Michigan.
It was quite a drive gettingout here, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, and it's funny, my wife and I moved here by
accident, blindly.
We had fallen in love withSouth Carolina and we loved
Riverview.
We figured when we retired we'dstay in Riverview and maybe go
down to South Carolina for amonth or so in the winter and
we're coming back from.
I always took her to the ThomasEdison Inn in Port Huron for
(54:33):
her birthday and we're comingback with her birthday on 94,
interstate 94.
And she said to me you know,I'd like to buy a place on a
lake.
I pulled over to the shoulderof the road and I said what are
you talking about?
We have two kids, our son'solder than our daughter.
We're very, very close to ourfamily and our daughter,
(54:59):
actually to this day, is one ofmy wife's best friends, if not
her best friend.
She was pregnant with our firstgrandchild.
We are going nowhere.
So so we made a, came up thisway and made a way in here.
We did not want to go up north,nothing against up north, but
we did not want to go up north.
Nothing against up north, butwe didn't want to go up north.
This wasn't your thing.
(55:20):
No, we had been there with herparents and stuff like this, but
we just went.
So we came this way intoJackson County, into Hillsdale
County, and we looked at on theinternet 50-some places and
looked at 30-some in person andwe found this place here.
(55:41):
This is a man-made lake.
It's controlled by a dam, ohokay.
And we found this here inHillsdale, and Hillsdale County
is, uh, by deer it's, it's, it'sover 600 square miles but
(56:01):
there's only like 40,000 people.
And at that time we moved here,uh, uh, the, uh.
I say I still stay in contactwith uh, law enforcement and
stuff.
One of the conservationofficers told me he says, yeah,
there's only, there's 40,000people, he said, but the last
deer count was 56,000.
I've hit three since I've beenhere yeah and um, but uh, we, we
(56:25):
, we absolutely love it here inHillsdale.
It's uh, I'm like I said before.
I'm involved in the community acouple of different ways and my
wife's involved with thecommunity and and everything.
And then our daughter andson-in-law, because my wife
retired two years after me fromteaching.
They lived in our house herefor a year and built a house
close by us, and so the twodaughters graduate from high
(56:48):
school near here.
But we love living in HillsdaleCounty in the country.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
So let's talk about that a little bit too.
So you retired in 2005, right?
So your wife would have retiredin 2007.
Eight or eight, okay.
So it's been almost 20 years ofretirement for both of you.
Other than kind of moving hereand setting up, what have you
been up to?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Well, we came here and I was involved in Kiwanis
for a while.
One of our neighbors got usinvolved in Kiwanis and so I was
involved in that and I likedthat part and giving back.
Well, kiwanis has a statetrooper camp that they have in
the summertime and so I was putin charge with that, being a
retired police officer, the kidsgo through intermediate school
(57:41):
district and they have a statepolice academy for the kids.
It's one week in the summer andso I was in charge of sending
the high school kids fromRiverview that qualified and so
I did that, and then I had somehealth issues so I did continue
(58:02):
in Kiwanis.
I was there quite a few yearsbut I've been involved with the
emergency management and publicsafety here in Hillsdale County.
It's a 911 board, they call it,and I've been involved in that
(58:23):
for 18 years and so we have amonthly meeting.
I had one yesterday and youmeet with all the public safety.
There's police, fire andambulance people there, and then
there's some civilians likemyself who have had connections
with police or fire and thingspeople there, and then there's
some civilians like myself whohave had connections with police
or fire and things like thatand my wife.
(58:44):
She wasn't doing it so much nowbut she was involved with the
Hillsdale County Foundation andsome other people here with
Student of the Year scholarshipsfor the county.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
She's got a state of education yes, with student of
the year scholarships for thecounty she's got a state of
education, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
And then we go to the Perennial Park, the Hillsdale
County Senior Center, and we gothere to exercise and they have
a very, very nice place.
They have a state-of-the-artexercise area downstairs and
everything.
And they had some issues withsome county commissioners.
(59:20):
They wanted to cut funding backfor the senior center even
though they were on a 14-yearmillage, and they couldn't.
They're nice people, the countycommissioners, but they didn't
understand.
They thought that the HillsdaleCounty Perennial Park was just
meals on wheels.
It didn't provide other thingsfood, and you know they have a
(59:42):
gymnasium and they're going tobuild a walking track and things
like this.
And so I went and they weremeeting with the former director
of the Hillsdale County SeniorCenter and they asked a couple
people to come and speak therebecause the county commissioners
were there.
And, like I said, the countycommissioners really didn't have
(01:00:04):
a clue of what they did.
They thought it was just wheelson wheels.
And so I got up and spoke andtalked to them and there was
another retired doctor that wasthere.
He's a good friend Actually.
His daughter was the directorof the perennial park at that
time and they got up and spokeand stuff like this.
And so like a week or so later Ihad one of the they had changed
(01:00:27):
the hierarchy and one of thenew assistant director came to
me and asked me, said we'd likeyou to get on the board for
because we have an opening forperennial park.
I said, I said oh, that's nice.
I said I appreciate that itkeeps me busy and stuff.
I thought they just wantedinsight from someone that
exercised downstairs and workedout and could tell the people
(01:00:48):
about that.
And they said, yes, that's it.
But we also, because you stoodup to the county commissioners
and I said whoops, I got a bigmouth.
And so I've been on theHillsdale County Perennial Park
Senior Board for a year and ahalf and I love it and stuff and
they do a lot of things for theseniors and things like this
(01:01:12):
and it's really really great andstuff like this and it's uh,
it's really really great andstuff.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
So so really, I mean, if you think about your, your
life has been service to your,to your country, to your
community, to whatever communityyou're in.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
You've continued that , that service right, uh,
throughout and and in the, inthe, in the, in the county and
the in the uh and just thecommunity that I give to them,
they give back as well, yeah,and I, and I feel blessed that
they that, they that they do andand everything else like this.
In there there's a wide varietyof people that are on the
(01:01:52):
senior center board.
There's bankers there's.
They have one countycommissioner, just a new one now
.
They have different otherpeople through the community,
different areas and stuff likethis, and it's really nice and
(01:02:19):
it's good for the people andthey have a vision to do a lot
of different things to buildsome, some housing units out at
perennial park and, like I said,put a walking track in.
They have uh, uh fabulousexercise area.
They have everyone some.
They have fundraisers for newexercise equipment.
They they have uh called subsfor fun and so you buy subs.
So my wife and I both, you know, we of course participate and
(01:02:40):
buy subs and people go make subsup and you go pick them up and
you eat them and they, but allthe profits goes to purchasing
new equipment and things likethat.
So it's it's, it's great, yeah,that's really nice actually
it's a nice facility for thecitizens.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Right.
So do you think you'll everactually retire?
No, he's going to keep doingstuff.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Like I said, I tried to go to the senior center.
I was going to go this morningbut I've just been too busy.
I just graduated from thephysical therapy, as I said
before, with my hip replacement,so I just got back into it and
I try to go three days a week.
And I said my wife goes and shealso does cardio drumming as
well as exercising and stuff,and she does that and they have
(01:03:24):
fabulous programs there andstuff like this, and they have
different things and every oneof the people that work
downstairs are certifiedtrainers.
So they know all the equipmentand if you know, you know, have
any questions or you know, youknow, have issues or anything
else like this, they're dead,they're there to help you and
and stuff.
(01:03:44):
So it's, it's, it's, it's aneat facility and stuff and it's
just so fabulous.
Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
You know, out in the country it's, it's a jewel, you
know, it's a gem yeah, but Ithink it'd be very easy to uh be
out in the country and not doanything, because there's just
nothing to do.
So it sounds like you guys havecreated a great space for that.
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Yep, yep, they're good and, as I said, we retired
to the lake here and stuff.
Actually, this house was only acouple years old.
Actually, this house was only acouple years old and the people
we bought from sadly, the ladyjust died, her husband died a
while ago.
They were elderly.
The lot next door went for salebut we've been here 20 years
(01:04:30):
and he felt closed in thatsomebody was going to buy the
lot and build and these peoplebuilt it probably about seven
years ago, but still there'sspace between us and everything.
And they're fabulous neighborsand people next door on the
other side.
They are still working, theylive in the Down River area,
they're going to retire soon,but they're fabulous people too.
(01:04:51):
There's great, great peopleresidents on the lake, so it's
nice.
They do a lot of things likefishing, derbies and junk like
this here and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Always something to do.
Yeah Well, we've talked about alot of things.
We've covered everything frombeing born and growing up in
Pennsylvania to the blind datethat changed everything, and now
you're retired.
But you're not retired.
You've lived quite a great life.
You have children andgrandchildren, and maybe you're
(01:05:23):
inching up into thatgreat-grandchildren area at some
point Not yet, no.
Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
The oldest girl is 22 , or 21.
She's up at Northern MichiganUniversity and she's there.
And we have two that aregraduating high school this year
, one here and one in GrandRapids.
The one in here is going to goto Grand Valley State, where her
parents went and her uncle went, and the other one is going to
(01:05:52):
college in the Grand Rapids area, and then we have one that's
just entering high school.
Wow, that's fantastic, yeah.
So we've got lots of kids andstuff, I guess, and both our son
and our daughter are in themedical field and stuff.
So they're there and we'reproud.
Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Serving as well.
Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Yeah, we're proud of them and everything else like
this, and my wife keeps me inline.
Yeah, serving as well.
Yeah, we're proud of them andeverything else like this, and
my wife keeps me in line.
Yeah, keeps me straight.
The whip marks I have on myback are tremendous.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
So how long have you been married?
Then I didn't do the math 53years.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
53 years, no 54 years .
My apologies, don't want to getthat wrong 1971.
We only have 54 years myapologies, don't want to get
that wrong 1971.
We got 54 years.
We were both very young, we gotmarried and 54 years and we
celebrated our 50th.
It was a big celebration withthe kids and everything else and
we do a lot of things.
I have two brothers One hadpassed away in 2001, the one
(01:06:53):
next to me and I have a brotherin New Hampshire.
I have a brother in Wisconsinand we're very, very close.
My brothers have been here.
Like I said before, my brother,his wife, inherited the place
out in California and so we meetout there a lot of times and go
there.
And my brother took us to SanDiego because we had told him
(01:07:18):
about the USS Midway, yeah, andhe wanted to see it.
He's my youngest brother,younger brother now, and I
thought it was like an hour away.
It wasn't three hours away andmy brother drove and I felt so
terrible.
But we went there and he wasvery happy to see the aircraft
carrier, which I wasn'tstationed on an aircraft carrier
(01:07:40):
, but very happy to see the shipand my helicopters and
everything else like this.
But we're very close to mybrothers and my nieces and
nephews and our children andgrandchildren, nephews and our
children and grandchildren.
My wife is on the phone withour daughter on a constant basis
(01:08:03):
.
We text back and forth on aconstant basis and everything
else like this, and our son anddaughter have been here a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
That's great, that's great.
So, you know, as we kind ofwrap up our conversation this
afternoon, uh, there's alwaysone question that I ask everyone
, and that is, you know, lookingback on your life, if someone's
listening to this years fromnow, what?
No, the dog wants to talk to umyears from now.
So what, what message would youhave for people?
Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Years from now.
So what message would you havefor people?
Life is great.
Like I said, I've been throughsome medical issues and things
like that, but I'm blessed.
Family is great, it'sabsolutely fabulous and things
like this, but life is what youmake of it and you can't get
(01:09:04):
down.
There's bumps in the road butyou always have to pick yourself
up by your bootstraps and keepon moving for health reasons or
any other kind of reason andstuff like this.
And, like I said, I've beenblessed because I have a family
that's so supportive of me andsupportive of all of us together
(01:09:26):
that you know, we know, youknow.
But my extended family as well,my mother's side of the family
especially I get, you know, getelectronic birthday cards from.
I have two uncles and one aunton my mother's side are still
alive and I talk to themelectronically or I call them
(01:09:52):
and stuff.
And then I have a cousin's, mycousin, my first cousin, but
he's our son's age, stuff, andhe's been here and stuff like
this.
He lives in the Poconos inPennsylvania.
He worked in a car designindustry and so he comes out and
goes to like a lot of times inthe Detroit car show and stuff,
(01:10:14):
and so he's come here a numberof times and I've had my one
aunt and uncle from they livenow in the Adirondacks in
upstate New York.
They've come here and stufflike this.
So we're very close to all ofour family, extended and close
family and talk to them and dealwith them on a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Yeah, sounds like family is very important.
Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
It is, it is, it is.
It's sad when you I know ofsome people that have nothing
against getting divorced.
I'm very proud that she's stuckby me all these years and being
a cop and everything else likethis.
But some people that I knowhave had divorces and they have.
They don't know their children,they don't know their
(01:11:02):
grandchildren and stuff likethis.
And you know there's nothingyou can do to change anything
like that.
All you can do is just lookback and reflect on your own.
Yeah, and stuff like this, likethe picture behind you those
are, it's right behind your head.
Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Oh, let me turn around here.
Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Oh yeah, Down to the left is our son and our daughter
.
Up to the left upper are thefour granddaughters.
Up in the upper right is thefour granddaughters again and
then the youngest one up theregiving her thumbs up.
Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Uh-huh, I see Sasha's got a prominent picture there
too.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
And we get actually my son and his ex-wife gave us
that, so we look at that andreflect on that and we have tons
of pictures like goingdownstairs, just tons and tons
of pictures of family membersand things like this and stuff.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Well, I hear Sasha's giving her input as well for
this.
So, yeah, well, I want to saythank you so much for taking
time out of your day to sit hereand talk with me and share your
story.
I'm sure people are going tohear this and learn something
from it.
Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
I don't know about learning something from it, but
it is interesting.
I've had a fabulous, fabulouslife and I'm so blessed and many
people are.
Most people are things likethis.
Obviously, you are, I'velistened to what your background
is and everything else likethis, but life is neat.
(01:12:33):
Life is neat yeah.
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