July 20, 2025 • 53 mins
The weight of war doesn't end when the boots leave foreign soil. In this deeply moving conversation, Marine Corps veteran Mike Omstead takes us through his remarkable journey from the streets of Detroit to the jungles of Vietnam and back again.
Growing up dyslexic in a large family, Mike found his calling in the Marine Corps after a brief college football attempt. His candid recollections of boot camp, where drill instructors "taught us to be killing machines," give way to raw accounts of his 13 months in Vietnam as a radio operator. The vivid details—from close combat encounters to bathing in a pond with fellow Marines while a massive snake approached—paint a startlingly authentic picture of the Vietnam experience rarely captured in history books.
But the true battle began after returning home. Greeted with a Dear John letter at the airport and struggling with what we now recognize as PTSD, Mike spent nearly a decade unable to discuss his experiences. "For the first ten years, it's either got to be destroyed or it goes my way," he explains, describing the rigid mindset that plagued many returning veterans.
The turning point came through love and community. His reconnection with Linda, a childhood friend who understood his struggles as both a nurse and compassionate partner, provided the foundation for healing. Today, as American Legion commander, Mike creates space for veterans to find the brotherhood that saved him. "If you can find the brotherhood and love of other veterans and share that with everybody, that'll make your life better," he reflects.
Whether you're a veteran seeking connection, a family member trying to understand, or simply a student of human resilience, Mike's story reminds us that our deepest wounds—and our most profound healing—often come through our relationships with others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Today is Wednesday, july 16th.
We're talking with Mike Amstead, who served in the United
States Marine Corps.
So good afternoon, mike.
Good afternoon I've got to saySemper Fi.
I grew up in a Marine Corpshousehold.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, Semper Fi Right back at you.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
All right.
Well, you asked before wereally started recording.
What's the first question?
So the first question I keep itsimple is when and where were
you?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
born.
I was born on the east side ofDetroit and when I was about
four years old we moved to thewest side of Detroit, eight
miles south of Southfield,before there was an expressway,
and Dad always thought that theyshould have taken the house,
because the expressway cameright through the backyard.
They took half the backyard butthey didn't take the house.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That must have made for a lot of noise.
Yeah, a lot of noise.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We were right on the exit coming off on the 8 Mile.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Uh-huh, so you pretty much grew up on the west side
of Detroit.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
All right, well, tell me a little bit about what it
was like growing up.
Did you have brothers andsisters?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yep, my brother Jerry , jimmy, passed away, and my
brother Jerry and myself andMarsha and Susie.
And then when my aunt passed,we got picked up, kim and Mark,
and we're one big happy familyLots of kids, then Lots of kids.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, where did you fall in the food chain there?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I was the second oldest, okay, my brother Jerry's
the oldest.
Okay, that survived.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So you had some responsibility, not all the
responsibility.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah Well, my brother , jerry, got married early, at
18, and that left me in thehouse there taking care of all
the girls and stuff the kids Wow, with mom.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, so what did your parents do?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
My dad was a toolmaker.
He was an accountant by tradebut he didn't like the
accounting business so he wentto work for his uncle in the
machine business and ended upworking on a boring mill and he
enjoyed that.
He worked with little tiny finenumbers, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, liked working with his hands then too, and all
that, yeah that, yeah, likedworking with his hands then too,
and all that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, dad always liked to work with his hands.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And then what?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
about your mom.
Mom was a housemaker.
She was an artist but she coulddraw and paint beautifully.
But basically she raised uskids Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
What was it like growing up with kind of a mixed
family right?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, yeah, it was challenging at times, depressing
at times and a lot of fun attimes.
The two kids we picked up, Markand Kim, are my physically
cousins, but they became mybrothers and sisters.
Mom and dad adopted them.
(03:43):
My aunt was murdered in a sadsituation.
Oh, and she had four kids andwe took two.
My mom and dad took two andadopted them, and the older two
went with my younger aunt inToledo.
Okay, now do the families gettogether very often, then yeah,
(04:05):
we would get together at leastonce a month or so.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
All right.
And then, once I hit 18, 19years of age, I was gone in the
service.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay.
Well, how was school for you?
Can we talk a little bit aboutthat?
What was school like?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
School was tough for me.
I'm dyslexic.
You know what dyslexia is.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And so it was very difficult.
The biggest fear I had was ifanybody asked me to read out
loud yeah, because in your headyou're reversing things nonstop,
always.
And so it went slow.
But but I found that myretention was much better than
most kids.
So I did good on the tests, butI didn't do well in the
(04:52):
classroom.
Also.
I went to, went on, graduatedfrom high school and went to the
University of Michigan.
Thought I was going to playfootball and they told me you're
Mike, but you can't run forcrap.
Oh no, I said you better findsomething else to do.
My dad was a pilot in World WarII.
(05:15):
Oh, okay, and I couldn't get inthe Air Force because I had bad
eyes.
But we had a neighbor, nickStingle, who was one of the
original guys on Okinawa thatput the flag up and all that
jazz Really, and he was a UnitedStates Marine.
And Dad and Nick would bebullshitting and I'd be
listening to him and I said, man, if I couldn't do the Air Force
(05:37):
, I'm going to join the MarineCorps.
So I joined the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You know, that's interesting to me because when I
was in the military I did sometime as a recruiter and
typically people that joined theMarine Corps, that was it.
They didn't have their sightson anything else but the Marine
Corps.
But you, it was almost a secondchoice.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Almost yeah, almost.
But once it became clear to meI couldn't be a pilot, I
definitely wanted to be a Marine.
Clear to me I couldn't be apilot, I definitely wanted to be
a Marine.
Once you get in, well, becauseI had been playing ball and I
was in pretty good shape.
I was better physically thanthe other recruits, so boot camp
(06:17):
was easy for me.
However, they pointed me out totry and pick on me to make me
look smaller to the other guys,and I remember I spent two years
looking for my drill instructor.
Once I got overseas I said if Iever see him, I'm going to talk
to him real close.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, it would be a one-way conversation.
One-way conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, he used to take great joy in jumping up on top
of a garbage can right outsidethe 50 gallon barrel.
He'd jump up on there, he'dkick me in the chest with his
foot like that and he wanted meto break and I wouldn't break.
Yeah, so that was part of thetraining, you know let's try to
see how far he could push you.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, yeah, well, what was your?
So I, you know, of course basictraining wasn't all that bad.
But what was your?
So I, you know, of course basictraining wasn't all that bad.
But what was your like initialimpression when you got off the
bus and you got to basictraining?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Ah, that was kind of fun, first time I'd ever been on
a big airplane.
Flew flew out to California.
They picked us up at theairport.
The bus got off.
Okay, stand on those yellowfootprints.
We stood on those yellowfootprints.
We stood on the yellowfootprints.
They took us in, shaved ourheads.
I remember Barbara saying howdo you want it?
(07:33):
I says what are you talkingabout?
Gone.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, just leave a little on top.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, right, and from there on it was just day after
day.
You know get up at 4 o'clock inthe morning and hit the rack at
whatever time it got dark.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So you were there in San Diego then.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, San.
Diego Butted up right to theNavy, basic training, in fact
during Vietnam we had to giveblood every 10 weeks, so we
would go.
We didn't mind that, becauseit's the first time you get to
sit still and lay down, you know.
So you're laying on a gurneypump and you look out the window
and you'd see these guys withlittle white hats and blue
uniforms.
We'd say who's that?
(08:13):
He says that's the Navy's bootcamp.
It's the Navy's boot camp andwe're sitting there with these
bright orange shirts on yellowshirts, orange reddish pants and
high-top sneakers.
So we couldn't get out the gatewithout somebody saying, hey,
we know who you are Right.
So that made it very, verycompetitive once we got to
(08:35):
Oceanside with the Navy.
That's why they became ourdance partners.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh, is that what that is?
Yeah, I'll never forget.
So I went to boot camp in SanDiego for the Navy.
And we had a guy that went AWOLbut he jumped the fence.
But he jumped the fence in theMarine Corps boot camp and they
kept him for a couple of weeksand he was never the same when
he got back.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
but he didn't want to go anywhere but Navy boot camp
after that yeah, we had one guygo under the fence because it
was right up to the airport.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right up to the airport and they brought him
back and they put him in a walllocker and they put ammonia on a
sponge for a couple hours inthere.
When they took him out his eyeswere all swollen shut and stuff
.
He didn't want to go nowhereanymore after that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Oh no, he became a pretty good recruit then Became
a pretty good recruit, then Allthings you can't do anymore
Things they used to do to us.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oh, I know, I know They'd call our moms names.
Oh sure, all kinds of you can'tdo any of that anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I remember they used to when you had mail call they
would feel it all throughyourself, like my girlfriend
wants a couple pieces of gum orsomething.
In a letter he says go ahead,chew the gum.
I said I didn't tell you tounwrap it.
I said chew the gum, oh no, youget aluminum foil in your teeth
(09:52):
.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, all kinds of ways to torture you.
Oh yeah, now they still do thecrucible when you were in boot
camp, what they call it thecrucible where, like where, at
the end of boot camp you do thiswhole field training exercise.
I can't say no At the end ofboot camp.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
we had a regular graduation ceremony.
Yeah, I think we went.
You know it's been 50, 60 years, but I think we went home for a
couple of weeks and then cameback and we went to uh, went to
29 palms and uh gave us somehand-to-hand stuff and uh, from
(10:32):
there then we we were shippedover to okinawa spent a night or
two in okinawa, okinawa todenang, denang, right up to
vandergrift wow, I want to backup on a few things you said
there.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So what was it like coming home after going through
boot camp?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
My friends and parents couldn't believe the
difference as far as disciplineand doing things just so Because
it used to be okay.
Now it was yes, that type ofthing, yeah, it'll change you
for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Oh yeah, it'll change you.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
My dad.
He kind of understood becausehe was in the military Right and
he was the only one that didunderstand.
And my dad and I had a veryclose connection after I got
into the service.
It was very, very nice closeconnection.
After I got into the service.
It was very, very nice.
I remember him telling methings about when he was in the
service.
He would write me letters andhe kept writing letters all the
(11:35):
way through, whereas you can'task an 18-year-old girl to stay
with you for two years, no, soher letters kind of weaned off.
And when I got home I got theold Dear John in the airport.
And the reason I got it in theairport is because my dad had
told me please don't do that tohim in the mail.
Right, he might do somethingstupid over there and I probably
would have.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, You're a kid, yeah.
You're just a kid, yeah.
So you come home, you go back.
Now I know everyone in theMarine Corps is infantry right.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So was that your MOS or was that your job?
My MOS was 2531 radio operatorOkay.
But everybody's a grunt in theMarine Corps, so you have to be
trained in close combat.
Because I ended up working withrecon anyhow and after a while
it kind of became my team, so tospeak, because I was the
longest surviving guy in thegroup.
(12:30):
Really Because you've got aseven or eight man team, you
lose a couple of guys, eitherget injured or they go all the
way.
Yeah and everything.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, so how long were you at 29 Palms then?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
29 Palms, I think.
We were there for four weeksFour weeks of close combat, that
kind of stuff, and learned touse a knife real good and it
came in handy yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, my dad served in Korea, or my stepdad served
in Korea, and I don't think hisexperience was anywhere near the
Vietnam veterans' experience,but he did talk about the things
that they taught him he usedwhen he was there.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, they basically taught us to be killing machines
, right, and it came in realhandy.
Yeah, until they started usingwhat they now call Agent Orange.
You know you could be from meto that door from one of the
little bricks and you wouldn'tknow it in the jungle.
You know, first guy that moves,he gets it.
(13:40):
You know that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So you flew from there.
You said okinawa, and thenokinawa.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We spent two days in okinawa for some reason, I don't
know why, but okinawa was wasweird because, uh, people all
lived in the cardboard boxes.
It looked like outside the gateof the of the base really yeah,
I remember taking the bus fromthe airport into the base and
all of our Sea Rat boxes wereall put together and made into
(14:10):
little houses and stuff and allalong the road as you go into
the base there was people livingin them or sleeping in them.
Of course, this is 67.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah yeah, and so you flew from there to Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, from there I went right into Da Nang, from Da
Nang to Van Der Riff what wasit?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
like landing in Da Nang.
What was that like?
Your first impression of beingin Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, when you first get off the plane you say, son
of a bitch, it's hot here, andwithin two weeks you don't even
pay any attention to that.
But at first you thought it washot and, uh, you're wondering
what's going on and and theystart, deal they, everybody on
the plane ends up in a differentunit somewhere, uh-huh and you,
(14:56):
you get sent to your unit, thattype of stuff now did you, uh,
when you went to your, yourfinal unit, um, was there
anybody that you had been intraining with that went with you
?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Or is it just you?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, any of the guys I went to boot camp with or went
out to bits and that type ofstuff, I don't remember seeing
any of them.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, so you get there.
You're the new guy and youdon't know anybody.
Don't know nobody, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But we go to Vandegrift in the rear was
almost like being on at at theboot camp base, not quonset huts
but regular tents, that type ofstuff.
And then you were assigned outto different units and as a
radio operator I would one dayI'd be with with recon, one day
I'd be be with with a field team, that type of stuff.
(15:45):
And you got to know abouteverybody in the division, so to
speak.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So I mean, I guess that would be good in a way.
I think it'd be.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
was it a little bit tough, like moving from group to
group Because they're prettymuch a no, because the Marine
Corps is so small, you get toknow everybody and we all worked
together.
Okay, there was me and SergeantLufau were basically the.
We were the two biggest guys inthe whole battalion and we kind
(16:21):
of took care of whatever theofficers wanted us to do, like
guys weren't allowed to havepersonal weapons and some guys
they'd get like an oatmeal boxand inside there's a .45 or
something like that or .38personal weapon and they
wouldn't give them up.
And the officers asked me godown there and get that away
(16:44):
from those guys.
And the next thing I know I gota gun on my face and the MPs
come.
They empty out the unit.
The sergeant says which one ofthose guys put the gun in your
face?
He says that one.
He says, these are yours and Ibeat the shit out of him.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
They let you take care of business.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
He wouldn't mess with anything I got.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, there's no fun in being on the business end of
a gun.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
No, no, you don't like having a .38 in your face,
mm-mm.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
No, now you were there.
So were you at that base thewhole time that you were in the
country then, or did you?
I was in.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Vandergrift went up to Khe Sanh and I'm trying to
think of the name of the otherplace.
They had the farthest north.
It could go where they had arunway and they would blow the
damn runway up at least once ortwice a month and then they'd
have to rebuild it.
(17:40):
That was as far as you could geta fixed-wing plane in.
We used the.
Every time they blow the placeup, we'd take the uh, the big
metal grapes that they had.
That all interlocked we'd do isthe top of our hoochies and we
put sandbags over top of them.
We'd be pretty safe in thereyeah because there was always.
(18:01):
Every night there'd beairstrikes, but most of the time
after about two, four, fivemonths, I spent most of my time
in the jungle.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So you were there for a year.
Then Was it a total year.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, Marine Corps' hitch is 13 months.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Because the Army was 12, Marine Corps had to do more.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Right, of course, yeah, first in last out, right
yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, so our hitches were 13.
I was at my second hitch whenthey took us out.
In fact, if you recall, nixonwas trying to get re-elected.
He brought guys out of thejungle.
We didn't know what the hellwas going on.
All we knew was get back to therear.
You're on a plane getting thehell out of here, turn in all
(18:46):
your personal stuff, don't takeany weapons.
And we flew home.
Wow, and when we got off, it waskind of ugly, because I
remember getting off the planeand all the colors that you
hadn't seen.
You hadn't seen bright colorsfor like two years, yeah, you
(19:08):
know.
And they just were shocking andthe cars going by, and then
there were people outside thething and they were yelling at
us.
However, the damn officer wasthere, not an officer, but a
politician, and he was givingout.
He was a little gold star.
(19:28):
You know, we all had a littlegold star to give out.
I still got it on my, my honorguard uniform Anyhow.
But they told us you're going togo home, don't wear your
uniforms home and get streetclothes.
Well, I didn't have any streetclothes with me.
I remember in Hong Kong I wenton an hour and an hour to Hong
Kong.
I had three suits made becausewhen I got home I was going to
(19:52):
go to work with my brother.
Well, by the time I got out ofthere I opened up the duffel bag
where they had been stored.
They were just rotted away.
Oh no, yeah, back in the 60s,if you remember, man, we had
bell-bottom trousers.
Oh yeah, double-breasted.
They were really smooth, bigold, wide collars.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Oh yeah, man, I remember all that.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I was dapper as hell, but they rotted away in
that duffel bag.
That was worthlessno-transcript.
(20:34):
Something that you probably haveheard from other guys from
Vietnam when the shit happened,when stuff happened, never see
an officer around.
I remember one time I had anofficer around.
I remember one time I had anofficer around.
He's on a chopper.
We're going into a hill we hadtaken over two days before, so
(20:55):
the hill's supposed to be safe.
We don't know because we hadn'tbeen there in two days.
We're going in and I got amajor or a colonel I forget what
it was with me.
I'm his radio operator for thisparticular deal and he's going
to go up to the top of the hillnow, get back on and go home and
he's got all this crap on hisdoor.
You know well understand, theofficers and Marine Corps back
(21:16):
then were all reservists andthey probably were on a desk
yesterday like Ed McMahon.
They pull them out of there andthey send them over to Vietnam
for a little stretch.
And I told him.
I said, sir, you don't want toget off with all that crap on
you.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I didn't say crap.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I said you don't want to have those insignias on you
when you get off the chopper.
He says don't worry about it,don't worry about it, corporal,
don't worry about it.
Okay, we didn't land.
We got down within about threeor four feet of the ground.
He jumps out, he took two stepsand bang, he was shot and there
was three of them, or four ofthem, behind a log and we lit up
(21:54):
that log, something terrible.
We got rid of them but had toget a new major.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Some people you just can't help.
Yeah, right, yeah, because theyknow it.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Then the night I got hurt, we had incoming coming in
and it was 1 or 2 in the morning, whatever, and one of my
buddies I think it was GeraldSmith would fall asleep outside
and the incoming.
I go out to get him.
I'm dragging his ass back in.
(22:28):
He's waking up and shit'sdropping all around us and we
get back in the hole.
Somebody says he's hit.
Oh shit, we couldn't find noblood.
It was me.
Oh no, I hadn't gotten hit.
They called a corpsman.
Corpsman, give me the poppers.
(22:48):
Poppers are the greatest thingsin sliced bread.
They flew me back to Da Nang.
From Da Nang I went out to someship.
I was on a ship.
I remember the gangplank, itwas the hallways all the way
down, body bags, the whole thing.
Jesus Christ, this is not theplace for me.
(23:09):
Next thing, I know I think theysent me to Japan and I was in a
Japanese hospital, but withBritish nurses, and that's the
biggest lie they tell you.
They say if you get hurt youget to go home.
Bullshit, it's all about yourR&R, it's all about your MOS.
(23:33):
Yeah, if you're a straightgrunt, maybe you get to go home,
but they needed radio operatorsso I had to go back and I went
back.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So they patched you up and you yeah.
So they patched up up and youyeah.
So you, uh, they patched up andsent you back but so how?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
what was your injury?
What had happened?
Uh, I had, yet I had yet ashrapnel down through the groin
here, uh-huh and uh, uh.
Apparently I got a little dingin the back.
I thought it was a ding andthen Corman just patched that up
.
But they were concerned aboutthis and they patched me up down
there.
I think they did surgery.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I'm not real clear because you know it was like in
and out, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
And it all happened.
Just I was just out crawling onthe ground to drag Smitty back
in the hole, that's it.
But you know mortars, they goout like this.
You know the concussions, sothat was that?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Did you get used to it?
I found I got used to a lot ofstuff in combat.
Oh, absolutely, when you firstget there you're not used to it
for sure, but somehow it justbecomes how it is.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
It's like the heat.
It rains half the year.
I don't remember it raining,but it did.
I don't remember the heatbecause we didn't pay any
attention to the damn heat aftera while.
But the guys Smitty and John,you become really tight.
(25:06):
The group.
Once you get a group that youwork with on a regular basis,
you become real tight.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, I mean, it really does become a brotherhood
, right?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well, that's what this place, this place here,
this post, has saved my life.
I've got PTSD and I have aservice service dog and I'm
allowed to bring my service dogin here, but I have a new one
now because my other one passed,yeah, and she's in training, so
anyhow, uh, if it weren't forthese guys, it's unbelievable.
(25:38):
Your life is, your life is likeit starts all over in the
military.
You got your life before themilitary.
You got your life before themilitary, you got your life
after the military.
But everything goes back to themilitary and then it goes back
out as far as what you'rethinking about, how you operate,
what you might do, what youthink you're looking at, that
(25:59):
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, Well, it changes you right.
Oh yeah, Not only do you growup, but you become a different
person.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh, absolutely, I'll never be the person I was before
in the service.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, and I think to some extent too, you're never
the same person when you comehome from combat either.
No, the people that left withme are not the same people that
came back.
We were all changed by it.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
When I came back I didn't talk to anybody about
anything.
I think it took about 10 years.
My wife, I got married to thefirst thing in skirts when I
came home because I got deerjohned Right and that lasted
about three or four years and weseparated and I met my wife,
(26:49):
linda again because Linda and Iwent to school together as kids,
went to kindergarten togetherand the whole thing, and then we
got married.
We've been married now 48, 49years or something like that.
Wow, but I never said anythingto anybody and Linda made me go
get some help.
Yeah, and I saw a couple oftherapists.
(27:11):
In fact there's one of Sharonthat worked out of this club
here.
It's down in Florida now and wesee her when we go down there.
She got married and we went toher wedding and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Anyhow.
So to back up a little bit, sothey patched you up, they send
you back.
How much longer did you staythen, once you went back into
Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I think that was like mid-summer, okay, and they drug
us out of there in betweenChristmas and New Year's of
1969-70.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And that's when we came home, so you came home and
got your gold star, yeah, so youdidn't have a suit to go to
work in.
So did you come back to Detroitthen, after you returned?
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I came back to Detroit.
Then, after you returned, yeah,okay, yeah, I came back to
Detroit.
And I remember, because at thispoint I didn't know but the
girl I thought I was engaged to,her name was Mary, and I
remember calling her fromsomeplace overseas.
I think we must have stopped tofuel the plane, like in Okinawa
(28:24):
or something like that.
I'm not sure where it was, butI called her and I said meet me
at the airport, all alone, we'llgo someplace.
And then the next thing I knowI get back to Detroit.
I get off the plane.
I'm expecting nobody there buther, and there's every person I
ever knew in my life, and allthe way in the back of the group
(28:44):
there's Mary.
I says something's wrong hereright yeah, hi, mom, hi, dad,
hugging and kissing and all thejazz.
And I get back to her and shesays we got to talk.
Is oh, I know what this means.
(29:04):
Yeah, and like I told youearlier, you cannot ask-year-old
girl to wait two years for aguy.
We were madly in love when Ileft, but that didn't last.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Rarely, rarely does it last, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And then I, in that first 10-year period I was all
screwed up in the head anyhow.
Yeah, and for some crazy-assreason I went over to find out
who the hell she's seeing andshe's got this new boyfriend and
his car's parked outside herparents' house and it was like
(29:37):
11 o'clock at night.
I destroyed his fucking car, Idon't know.
I just busted all the windowsand everything and I sat there
and waited for him to come out.
He wouldn't come out, no, andthey wouldn't call the police.
They didn't call the police ornothing.
I finally just left and thatwas my kiss goodbye to those two
idiots, right.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Probably, if you had it to do all over again, you
might not have done that.
I wouldn't have done that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
But when I came home you know for the first 10 years
that's got to be destroyed orelse it goes my way.
There's only two avenues Right,you're done or you're me and
that makes you hard to live with.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Oh, very yeah, very hard to live with.
So how did?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
you meet your first wife.
The guys that were my buddies,my high school buddies, set me
up on a blind date about twoweeks after I got home and we
went out and we went to a danceplace.
(30:45):
We danced and she liked dancing, and so we had a dance place.
We danced and she liked dancing, and so we had a good time.
And about a week or two laterwe had done our thing together
and I asked her.
I said well, why don't we justget married?
She says okay, and so we gotmarried and I went to work with
(31:08):
my brother.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
My brother, worked for the.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
AFL-CIO and I became an agent for the AFL-CIO, a
local union, 876.
And I came home and she was asmoker and I didn't like smoking
cigarettes at all.
If you smoke cigarettes inVietnam, you're just a target.
You know that little glow, ohyeah, yeah.
(31:36):
So I didn't care for cigarettesmoking and I'd come home and
she'd be smoking.
She'd be asleep in the chairwith a big cigarette, do a hang
day, and it is this one dayshe's going to burn down a house
or something.
And uh, she drank a littlelittle too much when I wasn't
around by herself.
Yeah, you know, I don't mindhaving a drink with her, but
(31:58):
when she's all by herself andshe's getting loaded up.
So we ended up getting adivorce and about that time we
had our 10-year high schoolreunion, 10-year high school
reunion.
And that's where I met Lindaback up again.
I said well, you're looking good.
But when we were kids she's anonly child, my wife and when we
(32:24):
were kids her mother used todress her real nice, you know
plaited skirts.
So we thought she was the richkid and we were the poor kids
that wore jeans with holes inthem.
So I never really talked to hera lot as a kid in school.
But we dated for it was six,seven months and found out that
(32:44):
everything we had was in common.
She liked the things I liked.
She loved going up in the woods, her dad was a deer hunter, she
liked all of that stuff.
So we ended up we moved intogether.
We lived together for about sixmonths, maybe seven months,
eight months, whatever it was.
And I says, well, let's getmarried.
(33:04):
And we did, and we've beenhappily married now for 47 years
, whatever it was.
And I says, well, let's getmarried.
And we did, and we've beenhappily married now for 47 years
.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I think it is 48.
I'd have to check with her.
Yeah, yeah, well, that's prettyamazing.
Did you find that, did she?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
did she have like a calming effect on you?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, she's a nurse and shehelped me with a lot of stuff.
She understood.
She understood a lot of thecrap that was going on with me
and uh, it took about 10 yearsand about two or three different
therapists and stuff like thatand uh, I could start talking
about it like I could never dowhat we're doing right now.
(33:44):
When I first came home, I justtold you no, thank you and
walked away, but she's thecenter of my universe.
She's just now starting to getinvolved up here.
She's a workaholic.
Like I told you, she's a nurse.
She ran an NICU for babies for15 years and she worked in a
(34:07):
cancer unit.
She didn't like cancer unitsbecause everybody ended up
checking out the wrong way.
And now she's an educator, anurse educator.
She retired but she's workingwith what they call a contingent
and as a contingent nurse sheteaches and does all the
paperwork and stuff like that.
(34:29):
And we're happy together.
Today I got to put her on anairplane.
She's going to New York.
Oh, what's she going to NewYork for?
My granddaughter is some sortof competition or something.
And she's going to go with mydaughter to New York and they're
going to putz around a little.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Nice, yeah, nice.
So you got married, yeah, andit sounds like you had children,
or one child.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
When I got married, linda had one son Okay, she had
gone through a divorce.
Linda had one son Okay, she hadgone through a divorce.
My father-in-law owned his ownbusiness and one of the guys
that worked for him and my wife.
Now, when I was married thefirst time, they were together.
They got married and had a boy,tim.
(35:20):
Well, he just disappeared andhe quit working for my
father-in-law and they gotdivorced and I adopted Tim and
he was only now he's 50-someyears old.
Yeah, yeah.
So we went through absolutehell trying to have children
(35:43):
because of the injury I had.
Hell trying to have childrenbecause of the injury I had and
we finally threw all kinds ofembarrassing stuff with sperm
banks and all that crap.
Anyhow, we had one daughter.
I've got a daughter and a son.
I've got one of each because Idon't make a third variety.
(36:03):
I don't have a third variety.
I got one of each because Idon't make a third variety, I
don't have a third variety.
But I'm proud of my kids.
Neither one of them have everbeen arrested.
They both got a good education.
One's got a master's degree.
The other one's owned her ownbusiness and works for the
(36:23):
school.
My kids go to school now andshe's going to open up her
business again, I think, oncethe kids are out of school or
into college and out of thehouse.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Well, that's pretty amazing.
Yeah, it is.
That's a success story.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah well, you always want your kids to do better
than you, and both of mine havemy son he's the one with a
(37:24):
master's degree.
He's a classic.
He's a school teacher and theguy can't.
When I remember him as ateenager, he couldn't balance a
checkbook.
I'm pretty good at numbers.
Because of his dyslexia, he hadreal problems with numbers and
I don't know how he made itthrough all the schooling that
(37:45):
he did go through, but he did.
He's a language arts teacher.
He speaks German as well as hespeaks English and I guess, not
too far off, he'll probably endup being a school principal up
there.
He's in Carroll.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Okay, so you were working for the AFL-CIO when you
got married the second time.
It was both first and secondOkay, and so is that where you
worked?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, tell me about your career.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Before I went into service, when I was going to
school, I worked for Great ScottSupermarkets.
Do you remember them?
I do, honestly.
I worked for Great Scottsupermarkets.
You remember them?
I do, honestly, yes, work forGreat Scott supermarkets.
And I was.
I was a night crew leader andso I could go to school in the
day and work nights.
And I became a union stewardand I got involved with this
Union and my brother went towork for the union.
(38:41):
I'm a union steward and mybrother works for the union.
I was involved with the union.
His father-in-law ran the Oak.
It was Herschel Womack.
He came from California, tookthe local over from the
Teamsters back in about 58 or 59, something like that, and he
(39:08):
said you get done with theMarine Corps, you come to work
with me, boy.
I said, well, okay, so that'swhat I was thinking when I
bought those suits, right, and Isays, because they all wore
suits, you know the guys onstaff, yeah, so I says, well,
that's what I had the, the suitsmade for, and then the suits
ratted away.
But anyhow, I came back and Iwent to work for the Union.
(39:31):
Oh, within the first year or sowe'd be back and I and I worked
back in the stores immediatelywhen I came back at night.
I worked night crews and Iworked for the local for 30, I
think 35 years.
I retired in 2002.
(39:53):
And from 2002 until now I'vebeen very involved around here.
I'm the American Legioncommander here.
So that's my program and theseguys keep me on the straight and
narrow.
Oh, I'll bet.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I'll bet they do, but it's also nice to serve other
veterans.
Oh, absolutely, that's whatit's all about, because there's
guys that come back probably inthe same shape you were and you
can talk to him about it.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
We got a guy that came in hereand he left and he said he
wasn't ever coming back.
But he's starting to come backa little bit now.
Brian, he's a Marine and I kindof put him under my wing.
Hopefully he'll speak, but he'sall screwed up in the head too.
He's in that period where I hadfirst 10 years.
(40:43):
First 10 years I wouldn't gonear a VFW, especially when my
dad took us into one.
They said I can't serve thisguy.
He's not a vet.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
He says Vietnam wasn't a war.
Yeah, there's a lot of thingsthat happened in the past.
I think that they've fixed but,it left a bad taste.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
A lot of people yeah well, from I came home in 70
yeah, from 70, 75 they declareda war.
Right, you weren't allowed togo into vfws or american legion
dolls because you weren't a vet.
Yeah, in their eyes, rightthat's life.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, you know, now, when I talk to people, I always
ask did you serve?
Because a lot of people don'tfeel like they're veterans.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
And you know, I know there's that definition out
there.
But if you served, you served,hey, if you served, you served.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
If you did something to help guys out, it's all there
.
You know, yeah, even if you'repushing the numbers and making
the planes go where they need togo, like Stevie, that's part of
it.
It all helps.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
It does and I think that people sometimes people
don't understand that.
Even the folks that stayedstateside, that made sure we got
everything we needed, theyhelped that effort, they did
something.
They helped us survive overthere.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
There's a sense of like.
When you're in the woods, thejungle, you know that you got,
they got my back Right Ifanything happens.
I got this radio and I gotthese guys that I'm, you know,
communicating with.
I can get help out here anytimeI need it.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
You know that's hard to find once you get out.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
You know, yeah, it is , it is.
It's hard to find once you getout.
Yeah, you know, yeah, it is, itis.
It's hard to find someonethat'll do anything you know I
mean anything for you.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
You know, Right, We've covered a lot.
Is there anything we haven'ttalked about that you want to
talk about?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I'd like to talk about the American Legion and
the Post and the VFW.
These guys are the best humanbeings in the world to me Stevie
there I'd do anything for Steve.
And there's a guy, tim Maher.
He's been fighting cancer forfive years.
(42:59):
He's in his mid to late 80s.
His wife's in a nursing home.
He goes and visits her everyday Comes here.
He's the one that started theAMVETS here.
He's a big time Marine and hewas in the Marine Corps League
in 141 and Howell and they toldhim the Marine Corps League said
(43:26):
you can't wear your dress bluesanymore.
You got to wear the and hedidn't like that.
So he came here and he startedthe AMVETS.
And he started the AMVETSbasically as a backup to the
Marine Corps League and now wegot a Marine Corps League group
here now and I don't know ifthey understand what it was
(43:50):
really started for.
And then Tim I would doanything for him but he's losing
it, fighting cancer, 80-someyears of age, and I hope that
the rest of the guys understandas much as I do and Steve
understands that you don't wantto hurt the guy.
I love the guy and I hope thatthe rest of the guys understand
as much as I do and Steveunderstands that you don't want
to hurt the guy.
I love the guy and I want himto enjoy what he's got left of
(44:11):
his life.
And you've got Steve here who's100% disabled.
You'll never know it.
He's an extreme type A andyou've got to know Steve and be
around him for a while andyou'll find that he's the
greatest guy in the world.
I love the dude.
When he first came here he wasso active.
(44:32):
We thought, hey, he's trying totake over.
What's going on with this guy?
But that's just him.
That's the way he is and he'skept this place going.
Basically, he's like havingfour other guys in charge, you
know good guy.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Well, and you have a unique situation here because
you have the amvets, theamerican legion, the vfw all
under one roof.
Yes, and I've been to all yourmeetings.
Yeah, it seems to work yeah,yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
The vfw physically owns 55 of this place.
American legion physicallyowns% of this place.
American Legion physically owns45% of this place.
A few years back there was aguy I won't mention names
because this might go publicsomeday but he wanted to run the
American Legion.
(45:18):
He says, oh man, we're introuble, we gotta get out of
here.
He says, let's split off and gosomeplace.
I just wait a minute.
If we split off, we take our 45go, the whole thing's going to
fall apart.
You know, you got to keep ittogether.
So we kind of told that guy totake a flying leap and uh and uh
(45:40):
.
I think I've been instrumentalwith the american legion ever
since keeping it together, andthat's back when our mortgage
here was over a million.
Now we've got it down whereit's like 300,000.
And hopefully I'll live longenough to see this thing paid
off.
And we've got some wonderfulladies at work here Christine
(46:03):
out here and Sharon they're thegreatest in the world.
And Christine, who runs thisplace, she does a nice job.
So we're blessed with goodpeople and the guys get along so
well together.
If you understand themembership, I have about 250,
(46:23):
somewhere around 250 members ofthe American Legion.
You only see 50 of them, right.
You know, but I get when thedues come in.
Some of them they're retired inFlorida, Arizona, whatever, but
they still pay their dues here.
I guess it's cheaper than upthere so they can say that
they're a member and that's whyit's like that, you know.
But the active guys, it'samazing what they do around here
(46:48):
.
Oh yeah, you know, I used to bemore physically involved and
then when I got COVID for me towalk across the parking lot, I'm
I'm out of breath, so but andthey understand that and they
work with me about it.
But other than that, I justlove these guys, love this place
.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well and they love you too.
I've noticed that Like there'sjust it's well.
I mean, when you get out of themilitary.
It's hard when you come back toyour civilian life because you
miss those military guys.
So I think the VFW and theAmerican Legion and the other
groups it's a great place toreconnect with people and you
(47:28):
don't have to have servedtogether.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
I could tell you two quick stories about stuff that
happened in Vietnam that justpopped into my head.
That's fine, that are notmiserable, because I don't want
to tell you any of themiserables no that's.
I was on radio watch down in ahole at night, four hours on,
four hours off.
I'm in a pit and I had to takea leak.
The whole time I was there Idid not take a weapon with me.
(47:55):
I went out to take a leak.
I'm sitting there, I got myyou-know-what in my hand pin on
a tree and all of a suddenthere's a bush that's moving
like this.
It's a goddamn goop with allkinds of crap on his helmet.
He sees me, I see him.
I said he don't know, I don'thave a weapon, and he's diving
(48:15):
down the hill.
I'm diving back into the holewith my schwanza, my hand.
We went up the side of the hillbut never found anything.
The next morning that's whatyou do.
Most everything that went on ingroups went on at night over
there.
And then the next morning yougo out and count what you did.
That's why any guy says, well,I never aimed a weapon the whole
(48:39):
time I was there.
Well, you do a spray.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
We call it spray and pray.
You got it.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, you got it.
And then the other one.
That was funny, that happened.
I think we were on 881.
Yeah, we were on Hill 881, anddown to the east of us, down the
bottom of the hill, there was ariver and it had ponded up.
There was a beautiful littlepond down there and about seven
(49:05):
or eight of us went down thereskinny dipping and we left the
guy up on the hill and we werejust about we were screwing
around in the water or whateverwe were doing, and the guy up on
the hill that was the guard youknow you have to have.
He starts laughing his ass off.
I said what the hell's going on?
We look over.
It looked like a dinosaurcoming at us, the biggest
(49:27):
fucking snake I ever saw in mylife.
We said shoot it, Shoot it.
We're screwed, shoot it.
And he's laughing.
He waited until it was from meto you and he opened up blood
and guts all over the place andwe carried that.
(49:47):
They ate it.
It was good Because we've beeneating sea rats and whatever we
could find for like three orfour weeks at that point, man,
that fresh meat was all right.
That was one of the things thatsticks in my head.
That and peeing on a gook.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That poor guy was probably peeing on a tree too.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, he probably was too.
He was snooping and pooping.
I'll tell you that much.
Yeah, if he'd have come closerhe might have thrown a grenade
down our hole, but I scared himaway without even a weapon.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, that's something.
You're not a small guy, though,so yeah yeah, so that's about.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
That's about all I got to tell you right now.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
All right, well, I got one last question for you.
Ask everyone the same question.
So, when people are listeningto this story down the road and
you and I aren't here anymore,what would you like to leave
people with?
What piece of advice would youlike to leave people with?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
What piece of advice would you like to give people?
If you can find the brotherhoodand the love of other veterans
and share that with everybody,that'll make your life better.
It'll make other people's livesbetter and the closeness you'll
(51:05):
never understand the closenessof veterans Even though we
didn't serve together, we allserved and we all know what
that's like.
And there's a brotherhood andthat brotherhood is a love of
individuals.
If that can be shared, that's awonderful thing.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
All right.
Well, thank you for that.
Thanks for taking time out thisafternoon to sit and talk.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Hey no problem.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Thank you.
Today is Wednesday, july 16th.
We're talking with Mike Amstead, who served in the United
States Marine Corps.
So good afternoon, mike.
Good afternoon I've got to saySemper Fi.
I grew up in a Marine Corpshousehold.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, Semper Fi Right back at you.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
All right.
Well, you asked before wereally started recording.
What's the first question?
So the first question I keep itsimple is when and where were
you?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
born.
I was born on the east side ofDetroit and when I was about
four years old we moved to thewest side of Detroit, eight
miles south of Southfield,before there was an expressway,
and Dad always thought that theyshould have taken the house,
because the expressway cameright through the backyard.
They took half the backyard butthey didn't take the house.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That must have made for a lot of noise.
Yeah, a lot of noise.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We were right on the exit coming off on the 8 Mile.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Uh-huh, so you pretty much grew up on the west side
of Detroit.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
All right, well, tell me a little bit about what it
was like growing up.
Did you have brothers andsisters?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yep, my brother Jerry , jimmy, passed away, and my
brother Jerry and myself andMarsha and Susie.
And then when my aunt passed,we got picked up, kim and Mark,
and we're one big happy familyLots of kids, then Lots of kids.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, where did you fall in the food chain there?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I was the second oldest, okay, my brother Jerry's
the oldest.
Okay, that survived.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So you had some responsibility, not all the
responsibility.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah Well, my brother , jerry, got married early, at
18, and that left me in thehouse there taking care of all
the girls and stuff the kids Wow, with mom.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, so what did your parents do?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
My dad was a toolmaker.
He was an accountant by tradebut he didn't like the
accounting business so he wentto work for his uncle in the
machine business and ended upworking on a boring mill and he
enjoyed that.
He worked with little tiny finenumbers, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, liked working with his hands then too, and all
that, yeah that, yeah, likedworking with his hands then too,
and all that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, dad always liked to work with his hands.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And then what?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
about your mom.
Mom was a housemaker.
She was an artist but she coulddraw and paint beautifully.
But basically she raised uskids Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
What was it like growing up with kind of a mixed
family right?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, yeah, it was challenging at times, depressing
at times and a lot of fun attimes.
The two kids we picked up, Markand Kim, are my physically
cousins, but they became mybrothers and sisters.
Mom and dad adopted them.
(03:43):
My aunt was murdered in a sadsituation.
Oh, and she had four kids andwe took two.
My mom and dad took two andadopted them, and the older two
went with my younger aunt inToledo.
Okay, now do the families gettogether very often, then yeah,
(04:05):
we would get together at leastonce a month or so.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
All right.
And then, once I hit 18, 19years of age, I was gone in the
service.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay.
Well, how was school for you?
Can we talk a little bit aboutthat?
What was school like?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
School was tough for me.
I'm dyslexic.
You know what dyslexia is.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And so it was very difficult.
The biggest fear I had was ifanybody asked me to read out
loud yeah, because in your headyou're reversing things nonstop,
always.
And so it went slow.
But but I found that myretention was much better than
most kids.
So I did good on the tests, butI didn't do well in the
(04:52):
classroom.
Also.
I went to, went on, graduatedfrom high school and went to the
University of Michigan.
Thought I was going to playfootball and they told me you're
Mike, but you can't run forcrap.
Oh no, I said you better findsomething else to do.
My dad was a pilot in World WarII.
(05:15):
Oh, okay, and I couldn't get inthe Air Force because I had bad
eyes.
But we had a neighbor, nickStingle, who was one of the
original guys on Okinawa thatput the flag up and all that
jazz Really, and he was a UnitedStates Marine.
And Dad and Nick would bebullshitting and I'd be
listening to him and I said, man, if I couldn't do the Air Force
(05:37):
, I'm going to join the MarineCorps.
So I joined the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You know, that's interesting to me because when I
was in the military I did sometime as a recruiter and
typically people that joined theMarine Corps, that was it.
They didn't have their sightson anything else but the Marine
Corps.
But you, it was almost a secondchoice.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Almost yeah, almost.
But once it became clear to meI couldn't be a pilot, I
definitely wanted to be a Marine.
Clear to me I couldn't be apilot, I definitely wanted to be
a Marine.
Once you get in, well, becauseI had been playing ball and I
was in pretty good shape.
I was better physically thanthe other recruits, so boot camp
(06:17):
was easy for me.
However, they pointed me out totry and pick on me to make me
look smaller to the other guys,and I remember I spent two years
looking for my drill instructor.
Once I got overseas I said if Iever see him, I'm going to talk
to him real close.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, it would be a one-way conversation.
One-way conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, he used to take great joy in jumping up on top
of a garbage can right outsidethe 50 gallon barrel.
He'd jump up on there, he'dkick me in the chest with his
foot like that and he wanted meto break and I wouldn't break.
Yeah, so that was part of thetraining, you know let's try to
see how far he could push you.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, yeah, well, what was your?
So I, you know, of course basictraining wasn't all that bad.
But what was your?
So I, you know, of course basictraining wasn't all that bad.
But what was your like initialimpression when you got off the
bus and you got to basictraining?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Ah, that was kind of fun, first time I'd ever been on
a big airplane.
Flew flew out to California.
They picked us up at theairport.
The bus got off.
Okay, stand on those yellowfootprints.
We stood on those yellowfootprints.
We stood on the yellowfootprints.
They took us in, shaved ourheads.
I remember Barbara saying howdo you want it?
(07:33):
I says what are you talkingabout?
Gone.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, just leave a little on top.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, right, and from there on it was just day after
day.
You know get up at 4 o'clock inthe morning and hit the rack at
whatever time it got dark.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So you were there in San Diego then.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, San.
Diego Butted up right to theNavy, basic training, in fact
during Vietnam we had to giveblood every 10 weeks, so we
would go.
We didn't mind that, becauseit's the first time you get to
sit still and lay down, you know.
So you're laying on a gurneypump and you look out the window
and you'd see these guys withlittle white hats and blue
uniforms.
We'd say who's that?
(08:13):
He says that's the Navy's bootcamp.
It's the Navy's boot camp andwe're sitting there with these
bright orange shirts on yellowshirts, orange reddish pants and
high-top sneakers.
So we couldn't get out the gatewithout somebody saying, hey,
we know who you are Right.
So that made it very, verycompetitive once we got to
(08:35):
Oceanside with the Navy.
That's why they became ourdance partners.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh, is that what that is?
Yeah, I'll never forget.
So I went to boot camp in SanDiego for the Navy.
And we had a guy that went AWOLbut he jumped the fence.
But he jumped the fence in theMarine Corps boot camp and they
kept him for a couple of weeksand he was never the same when
he got back.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
but he didn't want to go anywhere but Navy boot camp
after that yeah, we had one guygo under the fence because it
was right up to the airport.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right up to the airport and they brought him
back and they put him in a walllocker and they put ammonia on a
sponge for a couple hours inthere.
When they took him out his eyeswere all swollen shut and stuff
.
He didn't want to go nowhereanymore after that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Oh no, he became a pretty good recruit then Became
a pretty good recruit, then Allthings you can't do anymore
Things they used to do to us.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oh, I know, I know They'd call our moms names.
Oh sure, all kinds of you can'tdo any of that anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I remember they used to when you had mail call they
would feel it all throughyourself, like my girlfriend
wants a couple pieces of gum orsomething.
In a letter he says go ahead,chew the gum.
I said I didn't tell you tounwrap it.
I said chew the gum, oh no, youget aluminum foil in your teeth
(09:52):
.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, all kinds of ways to torture you.
Oh yeah, now they still do thecrucible when you were in boot
camp, what they call it thecrucible where, like where, at
the end of boot camp you do thiswhole field training exercise.
I can't say no At the end ofboot camp.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
we had a regular graduation ceremony.
Yeah, I think we went.
You know it's been 50, 60 years, but I think we went home for a
couple of weeks and then cameback and we went to uh, went to
29 palms and uh gave us somehand-to-hand stuff and uh, from
(10:32):
there then we we were shippedover to okinawa spent a night or
two in okinawa, okinawa todenang, denang, right up to
vandergrift wow, I want to backup on a few things you said
there.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So what was it like coming home after going through
boot camp?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
My friends and parents couldn't believe the
difference as far as disciplineand doing things just so Because
it used to be okay.
Now it was yes, that type ofthing, yeah, it'll change you
for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Oh yeah, it'll change you.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
My dad.
He kind of understood becausehe was in the military Right and
he was the only one that didunderstand.
And my dad and I had a veryclose connection after I got
into the service.
It was very, very nice closeconnection.
After I got into the service.
It was very, very nice.
I remember him telling methings about when he was in the
service.
He would write me letters andhe kept writing letters all the
(11:35):
way through, whereas you can'task an 18-year-old girl to stay
with you for two years, no, soher letters kind of weaned off.
And when I got home I got theold Dear John in the airport.
And the reason I got it in theairport is because my dad had
told me please don't do that tohim in the mail.
Right, he might do somethingstupid over there and I probably
would have.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, You're a kid, yeah.
You're just a kid, yeah.
So you come home, you go back.
Now I know everyone in theMarine Corps is infantry right.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So was that your MOS or was that your job?
My MOS was 2531 radio operatorOkay.
But everybody's a grunt in theMarine Corps, so you have to be
trained in close combat.
Because I ended up working withrecon anyhow and after a while
it kind of became my team, so tospeak, because I was the
longest surviving guy in thegroup.
(12:30):
Really Because you've got aseven or eight man team, you
lose a couple of guys, eitherget injured or they go all the
way.
Yeah and everything.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, so how long were you at 29 Palms then?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
29 Palms, I think.
We were there for four weeksFour weeks of close combat, that
kind of stuff, and learned touse a knife real good and it
came in handy yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, my dad served in Korea, or my stepdad served
in Korea, and I don't think hisexperience was anywhere near the
Vietnam veterans' experience,but he did talk about the things
that they taught him he usedwhen he was there.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, they basically taught us to be killing machines
, right, and it came in realhandy.
Yeah, until they started usingwhat they now call Agent Orange.
You know you could be from meto that door from one of the
little bricks and you wouldn'tknow it in the jungle.
You know, first guy that moves,he gets it.
(13:40):
You know that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So you flew from there.
You said okinawa, and thenokinawa.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We spent two days in okinawa for some reason, I don't
know why, but okinawa was wasweird because, uh, people all
lived in the cardboard boxes.
It looked like outside the gateof the of the base really yeah,
I remember taking the bus fromthe airport into the base and
all of our Sea Rat boxes wereall put together and made into
(14:10):
little houses and stuff and allalong the road as you go into
the base there was people livingin them or sleeping in them.
Of course, this is 67.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah yeah, and so you flew from there to Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, from there I went right into Da Nang, from Da
Nang to Van Der Riff what wasit?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
like landing in Da Nang.
What was that like?
Your first impression of beingin Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, when you first get off the plane you say, son
of a bitch, it's hot here, andwithin two weeks you don't even
pay any attention to that.
But at first you thought it washot and, uh, you're wondering
what's going on and and theystart, deal they, everybody on
the plane ends up in a differentunit somewhere, uh-huh and you,
(14:56):
you get sent to your unit, thattype of stuff now did you, uh,
when you went to your, yourfinal unit, um, was there
anybody that you had been intraining with that went with you
?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Or is it just you?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, any of the guys I went to boot camp with or went
out to bits and that type ofstuff, I don't remember seeing
any of them.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, so you get there.
You're the new guy and youdon't know anybody.
Don't know nobody, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But we go to Vandegrift in the rear was
almost like being on at at theboot camp base, not quonset huts
but regular tents, that type ofstuff.
And then you were assigned outto different units and as a
radio operator I would one dayI'd be with with recon, one day
I'd be be with with a field team, that type of stuff.
(15:45):
And you got to know abouteverybody in the division, so to
speak.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So I mean, I guess that would be good in a way.
I think it'd be.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
was it a little bit tough, like moving from group to
group Because they're prettymuch a no, because the Marine
Corps is so small, you get toknow everybody and we all worked
together.
Okay, there was me and SergeantLufau were basically the.
We were the two biggest guys inthe whole battalion and we kind
(16:21):
of took care of whatever theofficers wanted us to do, like
guys weren't allowed to havepersonal weapons and some guys
they'd get like an oatmeal boxand inside there's a .45 or
something like that or .38personal weapon and they
wouldn't give them up.
And the officers asked me godown there and get that away
(16:44):
from those guys.
And the next thing I know I gota gun on my face and the MPs
come.
They empty out the unit.
The sergeant says which one ofthose guys put the gun in your
face?
He says that one.
He says, these are yours and Ibeat the shit out of him.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
They let you take care of business.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
He wouldn't mess with anything I got.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, there's no fun in being on the business end of
a gun.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
No, no, you don't like having a .38 in your face,
mm-mm.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
No, now you were there.
So were you at that base thewhole time that you were in the
country then, or did you?
I was in.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Vandergrift went up to Khe Sanh and I'm trying to
think of the name of the otherplace.
They had the farthest north.
It could go where they had arunway and they would blow the
damn runway up at least once ortwice a month and then they'd
have to rebuild it.
(17:40):
That was as far as you could geta fixed-wing plane in.
We used the.
Every time they blow the placeup, we'd take the uh, the big
metal grapes that they had.
That all interlocked we'd do isthe top of our hoochies and we
put sandbags over top of them.
We'd be pretty safe in thereyeah because there was always.
(18:01):
Every night there'd beairstrikes, but most of the time
after about two, four, fivemonths, I spent most of my time
in the jungle.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So you were there for a year.
Then Was it a total year.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, Marine Corps' hitch is 13 months.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Because the Army was 12, Marine Corps had to do more.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Right, of course, yeah, first in last out, right
yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, so our hitches were 13.
I was at my second hitch whenthey took us out.
In fact, if you recall, nixonwas trying to get re-elected.
He brought guys out of thejungle.
We didn't know what the hellwas going on.
All we knew was get back to therear.
You're on a plane getting thehell out of here, turn in all
(18:46):
your personal stuff, don't takeany weapons.
And we flew home.
Wow, and when we got off, it waskind of ugly, because I
remember getting off the planeand all the colors that you
hadn't seen.
You hadn't seen bright colorsfor like two years, yeah, you
(19:08):
know.
And they just were shocking andthe cars going by, and then
there were people outside thething and they were yelling at
us.
However, the damn officer wasthere, not an officer, but a
politician, and he was givingout.
He was a little gold star.
(19:28):
You know, we all had a littlegold star to give out.
I still got it on my, my honorguard uniform Anyhow.
But they told us you're going togo home, don't wear your
uniforms home and get streetclothes.
Well, I didn't have any streetclothes with me.
I remember in Hong Kong I wenton an hour and an hour to Hong
Kong.
I had three suits made becausewhen I got home I was going to
(19:52):
go to work with my brother.
Well, by the time I got out ofthere I opened up the duffel bag
where they had been stored.
They were just rotted away.
Oh no, yeah, back in the 60s,if you remember, man, we had
bell-bottom trousers.
Oh yeah, double-breasted.
They were really smooth, bigold, wide collars.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Oh yeah, man, I remember all that.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I was dapper as hell, but they rotted away in
that duffel bag.
That was worthlessno-transcript.
(20:34):
Something that you probably haveheard from other guys from
Vietnam when the shit happened,when stuff happened, never see
an officer around.
I remember one time I had anofficer around.
I remember one time I had anofficer around.
He's on a chopper.
We're going into a hill we hadtaken over two days before, so
(20:55):
the hill's supposed to be safe.
We don't know because we hadn'tbeen there in two days.
We're going in and I got amajor or a colonel I forget what
it was with me.
I'm his radio operator for thisparticular deal and he's going
to go up to the top of the hillnow, get back on and go home and
he's got all this crap on hisdoor.
You know well understand, theofficers and Marine Corps back
(21:16):
then were all reservists andthey probably were on a desk
yesterday like Ed McMahon.
They pull them out of there andthey send them over to Vietnam
for a little stretch.
And I told him.
I said, sir, you don't want toget off with all that crap on
you.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I didn't say crap.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I said you don't want to have those insignias on you
when you get off the chopper.
He says don't worry about it,don't worry about it, corporal,
don't worry about it.
Okay, we didn't land.
We got down within about threeor four feet of the ground.
He jumps out, he took two stepsand bang, he was shot and there
was three of them, or four ofthem, behind a log and we lit up
(21:54):
that log, something terrible.
We got rid of them but had toget a new major.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Some people you just can't help.
Yeah, right, yeah, because theyknow it.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Then the night I got hurt, we had incoming coming in
and it was 1 or 2 in the morning, whatever, and one of my
buddies I think it was GeraldSmith would fall asleep outside
and the incoming.
I go out to get him.
I'm dragging his ass back in.
(22:28):
He's waking up and shit'sdropping all around us and we
get back in the hole.
Somebody says he's hit.
Oh shit, we couldn't find noblood.
It was me.
Oh no, I hadn't gotten hit.
They called a corpsman.
Corpsman, give me the poppers.
(22:48):
Poppers are the greatest thingsin sliced bread.
They flew me back to Da Nang.
From Da Nang I went out to someship.
I was on a ship.
I remember the gangplank, itwas the hallways all the way
down, body bags, the whole thing.
Jesus Christ, this is not theplace for me.
(23:09):
Next thing, I know I think theysent me to Japan and I was in a
Japanese hospital, but withBritish nurses, and that's the
biggest lie they tell you.
They say if you get hurt youget to go home.
Bullshit, it's all about yourR&R, it's all about your MOS.
(23:33):
Yeah, if you're a straightgrunt, maybe you get to go home,
but they needed radio operatorsso I had to go back and I went
back.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So they patched you up and you yeah.
So they patched up up and youyeah.
So you, uh, they patched up andsent you back but so how?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
what was your injury?
What had happened?
Uh, I had, yet I had yet ashrapnel down through the groin
here, uh-huh and uh, uh.
Apparently I got a little dingin the back.
I thought it was a ding andthen Corman just patched that up
.
But they were concerned aboutthis and they patched me up down
there.
I think they did surgery.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I'm not real clear because you know it was like in
and out, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
And it all happened.
Just I was just out crawling onthe ground to drag Smitty back
in the hole, that's it.
But you know mortars, they goout like this.
You know the concussions, sothat was that?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Did you get used to it?
I found I got used to a lot ofstuff in combat.
Oh, absolutely, when you firstget there you're not used to it
for sure, but somehow it justbecomes how it is.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
It's like the heat.
It rains half the year.
I don't remember it raining,but it did.
I don't remember the heatbecause we didn't pay any
attention to the damn heat aftera while.
But the guys Smitty and John,you become really tight.
(25:06):
The group.
Once you get a group that youwork with on a regular basis,
you become real tight.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, I mean, it really does become a brotherhood
, right?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well, that's what this place, this place here,
this post, has saved my life.
I've got PTSD and I have aservice service dog and I'm
allowed to bring my service dogin here, but I have a new one
now because my other one passed,yeah, and she's in training, so
anyhow, uh, if it weren't forthese guys, it's unbelievable.
(25:38):
Your life is, your life is likeit starts all over in the
military.
You got your life before themilitary.
You got your life before themilitary, you got your life
after the military.
But everything goes back to themilitary and then it goes back
out as far as what you'rethinking about, how you operate,
what you might do, what youthink you're looking at, that
(25:59):
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, Well, it changes you right.
Oh yeah, Not only do you growup, but you become a different
person.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh, absolutely, I'll never be the person I was before
in the service.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, and I think to some extent too, you're never
the same person when you comehome from combat either.
No, the people that left withme are not the same people that
came back.
We were all changed by it.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
When I came back I didn't talk to anybody about
anything.
I think it took about 10 years.
My wife, I got married to thefirst thing in skirts when I
came home because I got deerjohned Right and that lasted
about three or four years and weseparated and I met my wife,
(26:49):
linda again because Linda and Iwent to school together as kids,
went to kindergarten togetherand the whole thing, and then we
got married.
We've been married now 48, 49years or something like that.
Wow, but I never said anythingto anybody and Linda made me go
get some help.
Yeah, and I saw a couple oftherapists.
(27:11):
In fact there's one of Sharonthat worked out of this club
here.
It's down in Florida now and wesee her when we go down there.
She got married and we went toher wedding and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Anyhow.
So to back up a little bit, sothey patched you up, they send
you back.
How much longer did you staythen, once you went back into
Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I think that was like mid-summer, okay, and they drug
us out of there in betweenChristmas and New Year's of
1969-70.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And that's when we came home, so you came home and
got your gold star, yeah, so youdidn't have a suit to go to
work in.
So did you come back to Detroitthen, after you returned?
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I came back to Detroit.
Then, after you returned, yeah,okay, yeah, I came back to
Detroit.
And I remember, because at thispoint I didn't know but the
girl I thought I was engaged to,her name was Mary, and I
remember calling her fromsomeplace overseas.
I think we must have stopped tofuel the plane, like in Okinawa
(28:24):
or something like that.
I'm not sure where it was, butI called her and I said meet me
at the airport, all alone, we'llgo someplace.
And then the next thing I knowI get back to Detroit.
I get off the plane.
I'm expecting nobody there buther, and there's every person I
ever knew in my life, and allthe way in the back of the group
(28:44):
there's Mary.
I says something's wrong hereright yeah, hi, mom, hi, dad,
hugging and kissing and all thejazz.
And I get back to her and shesays we got to talk.
Is oh, I know what this means.
(29:04):
Yeah, and like I told youearlier, you cannot ask-year-old
girl to wait two years for aguy.
We were madly in love when Ileft, but that didn't last.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Rarely, rarely does it last, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And then I, in that first 10-year period I was all
screwed up in the head anyhow.
Yeah, and for some crazy-assreason I went over to find out
who the hell she's seeing andshe's got this new boyfriend and
his car's parked outside herparents' house and it was like
(29:37):
11 o'clock at night.
I destroyed his fucking car, Idon't know.
I just busted all the windowsand everything and I sat there
and waited for him to come out.
He wouldn't come out, no, andthey wouldn't call the police.
They didn't call the police ornothing.
I finally just left and thatwas my kiss goodbye to those two
idiots, right.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Probably, if you had it to do all over again, you
might not have done that.
I wouldn't have done that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
But when I came home you know for the first 10 years
that's got to be destroyed orelse it goes my way.
There's only two avenues Right,you're done or you're me and
that makes you hard to live with.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Oh, very yeah, very hard to live with.
So how did?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
you meet your first wife.
The guys that were my buddies,my high school buddies, set me
up on a blind date about twoweeks after I got home and we
went out and we went to a danceplace.
(30:45):
We danced and she liked dancing, and so we had a dance place.
We danced and she liked dancing, and so we had a good time.
And about a week or two laterwe had done our thing together
and I asked her.
I said well, why don't we justget married?
She says okay, and so we gotmarried and I went to work with
(31:08):
my brother.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
My brother, worked for the.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
AFL-CIO and I became an agent for the AFL-CIO, a
local union, 876.
And I came home and she was asmoker and I didn't like smoking
cigarettes at all.
If you smoke cigarettes inVietnam, you're just a target.
You know that little glow, ohyeah, yeah.
(31:36):
So I didn't care for cigarettesmoking and I'd come home and
she'd be smoking.
She'd be asleep in the chairwith a big cigarette, do a hang
day, and it is this one dayshe's going to burn down a house
or something.
And uh, she drank a littlelittle too much when I wasn't
around by herself.
Yeah, you know, I don't mindhaving a drink with her, but
(31:58):
when she's all by herself andshe's getting loaded up.
So we ended up getting adivorce and about that time we
had our 10-year high schoolreunion, 10-year high school
reunion.
And that's where I met Lindaback up again.
I said well, you're looking good.
But when we were kids she's anonly child, my wife and when we
(32:24):
were kids her mother used todress her real nice, you know
plaited skirts.
So we thought she was the richkid and we were the poor kids
that wore jeans with holes inthem.
So I never really talked to hera lot as a kid in school.
But we dated for it was six,seven months and found out that
(32:44):
everything we had was in common.
She liked the things I liked.
She loved going up in the woods, her dad was a deer hunter, she
liked all of that stuff.
So we ended up we moved intogether.
We lived together for about sixmonths, maybe seven months,
eight months, whatever it was.
And I says, well, let's getmarried.
(33:04):
And we did, and we've beenhappily married now for 47 years
, whatever it was.
And I says, well, let's getmarried.
And we did, and we've beenhappily married now for 47 years
.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I think it is 48.
I'd have to check with her.
Yeah, yeah, well, that's prettyamazing.
Did you find that, did she?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
did she have like a calming effect on you?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, she's a nurse and shehelped me with a lot of stuff.
She understood.
She understood a lot of thecrap that was going on with me
and uh, it took about 10 yearsand about two or three different
therapists and stuff like thatand uh, I could start talking
about it like I could never dowhat we're doing right now.
(33:44):
When I first came home, I justtold you no, thank you and
walked away, but she's thecenter of my universe.
She's just now starting to getinvolved up here.
She's a workaholic.
Like I told you, she's a nurse.
She ran an NICU for babies for15 years and she worked in a
(34:07):
cancer unit.
She didn't like cancer unitsbecause everybody ended up
checking out the wrong way.
And now she's an educator, anurse educator.
She retired but she's workingwith what they call a contingent
and as a contingent nurse sheteaches and does all the
paperwork and stuff like that.
(34:29):
And we're happy together.
Today I got to put her on anairplane.
She's going to New York.
Oh, what's she going to NewYork for?
My granddaughter is some sortof competition or something.
And she's going to go with mydaughter to New York and they're
going to putz around a little.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Nice, yeah, nice.
So you got married, yeah, andit sounds like you had children,
or one child.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
When I got married, linda had one son Okay, she had
gone through a divorce.
Linda had one son Okay, she hadgone through a divorce.
My father-in-law owned his ownbusiness and one of the guys
that worked for him and my wife.
Now, when I was married thefirst time, they were together.
They got married and had a boy,tim.
(35:20):
Well, he just disappeared andhe quit working for my
father-in-law and they gotdivorced and I adopted Tim and
he was only now he's 50-someyears old.
Yeah, yeah.
So we went through absolutehell trying to have children
(35:43):
because of the injury I had.
Hell trying to have childrenbecause of the injury I had and
we finally threw all kinds ofembarrassing stuff with sperm
banks and all that crap.
Anyhow, we had one daughter.
I've got a daughter and a son.
I've got one of each because Idon't make a third variety.
(36:03):
I don't have a third variety.
I got one of each because Idon't make a third variety, I
don't have a third variety.
But I'm proud of my kids.
Neither one of them have everbeen arrested.
They both got a good education.
One's got a master's degree.
The other one's owned her ownbusiness and works for the
(36:23):
school.
My kids go to school now andshe's going to open up her
business again, I think, oncethe kids are out of school or
into college and out of thehouse.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Well, that's pretty amazing.
Yeah, it is.
That's a success story.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah well, you always want your kids to do better
than you, and both of mine havemy son he's the one with a
(37:24):
master's degree.
He's a classic.
He's a school teacher and theguy can't.
When I remember him as ateenager, he couldn't balance a
checkbook.
I'm pretty good at numbers.
Because of his dyslexia, he hadreal problems with numbers and
I don't know how he made itthrough all the schooling that
(37:45):
he did go through, but he did.
He's a language arts teacher.
He speaks German as well as hespeaks English and I guess, not
too far off, he'll probably endup being a school principal up
there.
He's in Carroll.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Okay, so you were working for the AFL-CIO when you
got married the second time.
It was both first and secondOkay, and so is that where you
worked?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, tell me about your career.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Before I went into service, when I was going to
school, I worked for Great ScottSupermarkets.
Do you remember them?
I do, honestly.
I worked for Great Scottsupermarkets.
You remember them?
I do, honestly, yes, work forGreat Scott supermarkets.
And I was.
I was a night crew leader andso I could go to school in the
day and work nights.
And I became a union stewardand I got involved with this
Union and my brother went towork for the union.
(38:41):
I'm a union steward and mybrother works for the union.
I was involved with the union.
His father-in-law ran the Oak.
It was Herschel Womack.
He came from California, tookthe local over from the
Teamsters back in about 58 or 59, something like that, and he
(39:08):
said you get done with theMarine Corps, you come to work
with me, boy.
I said, well, okay, so that'swhat I was thinking when I
bought those suits, right, and Isays, because they all wore
suits, you know the guys onstaff, yeah, so I says, well,
that's what I had the, the suitsmade for, and then the suits
ratted away.
But anyhow, I came back and Iwent to work for the Union.
(39:31):
Oh, within the first year or sowe'd be back and I and I worked
back in the stores immediatelywhen I came back at night.
I worked night crews and Iworked for the local for 30, I
think 35 years.
I retired in 2002.
(39:53):
And from 2002 until now I'vebeen very involved around here.
I'm the American Legioncommander here.
So that's my program and theseguys keep me on the straight and
narrow.
Oh, I'll bet.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I'll bet they do, but it's also nice to serve other
veterans.
Oh, absolutely, that's whatit's all about, because there's
guys that come back probably inthe same shape you were and you
can talk to him about it.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
We got a guy that came in hereand he left and he said he
wasn't ever coming back.
But he's starting to come backa little bit now.
Brian, he's a Marine and I kindof put him under my wing.
Hopefully he'll speak, but he'sall screwed up in the head too.
He's in that period where I hadfirst 10 years.
(40:43):
First 10 years I wouldn't gonear a VFW, especially when my
dad took us into one.
They said I can't serve thisguy.
He's not a vet.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
He says Vietnam wasn't a war.
Yeah, there's a lot of thingsthat happened in the past.
I think that they've fixed but,it left a bad taste.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
A lot of people yeah well, from I came home in 70
yeah, from 70, 75 they declareda war.
Right, you weren't allowed togo into vfws or american legion
dolls because you weren't a vet.
Yeah, in their eyes, rightthat's life.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, you know, now, when I talk to people, I always
ask did you serve?
Because a lot of people don'tfeel like they're veterans.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
And you know, I know there's that definition out
there.
But if you served, you served,hey, if you served, you served.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
If you did something to help guys out, it's all there
.
You know, yeah, even if you'repushing the numbers and making
the planes go where they need togo, like Stevie, that's part of
it.
It all helps.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
It does and I think that people sometimes people
don't understand that.
Even the folks that stayedstateside, that made sure we got
everything we needed, theyhelped that effort, they did
something.
They helped us survive overthere.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
There's a sense of like.
When you're in the woods, thejungle, you know that you got,
they got my back Right Ifanything happens.
I got this radio and I gotthese guys that I'm, you know,
communicating with.
I can get help out here anytimeI need it.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
You know that's hard to find once you get out.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
You know, yeah, it is , it is.
It's hard to find once you getout.
Yeah, you know, yeah, it is, itis.
It's hard to find someonethat'll do anything you know I
mean anything for you.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
You know, Right, We've covered a lot.
Is there anything we haven'ttalked about that you want to
talk about?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I'd like to talk about the American Legion and
the Post and the VFW.
These guys are the best humanbeings in the world to me Stevie
there I'd do anything for Steve.
And there's a guy, tim Maher.
He's been fighting cancer forfive years.
(42:59):
He's in his mid to late 80s.
His wife's in a nursing home.
He goes and visits her everyday Comes here.
He's the one that started theAMVETS here.
He's a big time Marine and hewas in the Marine Corps League
in 141 and Howell and they toldhim the Marine Corps League said
(43:26):
you can't wear your dress bluesanymore.
You got to wear the and hedidn't like that.
So he came here and he startedthe AMVETS.
And he started the AMVETSbasically as a backup to the
Marine Corps League and now wegot a Marine Corps League group
here now and I don't know ifthey understand what it was
(43:50):
really started for.
And then Tim I would doanything for him but he's losing
it, fighting cancer, 80-someyears of age, and I hope that
the rest of the guys understandas much as I do and Steve
understands that you don't wantto hurt the guy.
I love the guy and I hope thatthe rest of the guys understand
as much as I do and Steveunderstands that you don't want
to hurt the guy.
I love the guy and I want himto enjoy what he's got left of
(44:11):
his life.
And you've got Steve here who's100% disabled.
You'll never know it.
He's an extreme type A andyou've got to know Steve and be
around him for a while andyou'll find that he's the
greatest guy in the world.
I love the dude.
When he first came here he wasso active.
(44:32):
We thought, hey, he's trying totake over.
What's going on with this guy?
But that's just him.
That's the way he is and he'skept this place going.
Basically, he's like havingfour other guys in charge, you
know good guy.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Well, and you have a unique situation here because
you have the amvets, theamerican legion, the vfw all
under one roof.
Yes, and I've been to all yourmeetings.
Yeah, it seems to work yeah,yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
The vfw physically owns 55 of this place.
American legion physicallyowns% of this place.
American Legion physically owns45% of this place.
A few years back there was aguy I won't mention names
because this might go publicsomeday but he wanted to run the
American Legion.
(45:18):
He says, oh man, we're introuble, we gotta get out of
here.
He says, let's split off and gosomeplace.
I just wait a minute.
If we split off, we take our 45go, the whole thing's going to
fall apart.
You know, you got to keep ittogether.
So we kind of told that guy totake a flying leap and uh and uh
(45:40):
.
I think I've been instrumentalwith the american legion ever
since keeping it together, andthat's back when our mortgage
here was over a million.
Now we've got it down whereit's like 300,000.
And hopefully I'll live longenough to see this thing paid
off.
And we've got some wonderfulladies at work here Christine
(46:03):
out here and Sharon they're thegreatest in the world.
And Christine, who runs thisplace, she does a nice job.
So we're blessed with goodpeople and the guys get along so
well together.
If you understand themembership, I have about 250,
(46:23):
somewhere around 250 members ofthe American Legion.
You only see 50 of them, right.
You know, but I get when thedues come in.
Some of them they're retired inFlorida, Arizona, whatever, but
they still pay their dues here.
I guess it's cheaper than upthere so they can say that
they're a member and that's whyit's like that, you know.
But the active guys, it'samazing what they do around here
(46:48):
.
Oh yeah, you know, I used to bemore physically involved and
then when I got COVID for me towalk across the parking lot, I'm
I'm out of breath, so but andthey understand that and they
work with me about it.
But other than that, I justlove these guys, love this place
.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well and they love you too.
I've noticed that Like there'sjust it's well.
I mean, when you get out of themilitary.
It's hard when you come back toyour civilian life because you
miss those military guys.
So I think the VFW and theAmerican Legion and the other
groups it's a great place toreconnect with people and you
(47:28):
don't have to have servedtogether.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
I could tell you two quick stories about stuff that
happened in Vietnam that justpopped into my head.
That's fine, that are notmiserable, because I don't want
to tell you any of themiserables no that's.
I was on radio watch down in ahole at night, four hours on,
four hours off.
I'm in a pit and I had to takea leak.
The whole time I was there Idid not take a weapon with me.
(47:55):
I went out to take a leak.
I'm sitting there, I got myyou-know-what in my hand pin on
a tree and all of a suddenthere's a bush that's moving
like this.
It's a goddamn goop with allkinds of crap on his helmet.
He sees me, I see him.
I said he don't know, I don'thave a weapon, and he's diving
(48:15):
down the hill.
I'm diving back into the holewith my schwanza, my hand.
We went up the side of the hillbut never found anything.
The next morning that's whatyou do.
Most everything that went on ingroups went on at night over
there.
And then the next morning yougo out and count what you did.
That's why any guy says, well,I never aimed a weapon the whole
(48:39):
time I was there.
Well, you do a spray.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
We call it spray and pray.
You got it.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, you got it.
And then the other one.
That was funny, that happened.
I think we were on 881.
Yeah, we were on Hill 881, anddown to the east of us, down the
bottom of the hill, there was ariver and it had ponded up.
There was a beautiful littlepond down there and about seven
(49:05):
or eight of us went down thereskinny dipping and we left the
guy up on the hill and we werejust about we were screwing
around in the water or whateverwe were doing, and the guy up on
the hill that was the guard youknow you have to have.
He starts laughing his ass off.
I said what the hell's going on?
We look over.
It looked like a dinosaurcoming at us, the biggest
(49:27):
fucking snake I ever saw in mylife.
We said shoot it, Shoot it.
We're screwed, shoot it.
And he's laughing.
He waited until it was from meto you and he opened up blood
and guts all over the place andwe carried that.
(49:47):
They ate it.
It was good Because we've beeneating sea rats and whatever we
could find for like three orfour weeks at that point, man,
that fresh meat was all right.
That was one of the things thatsticks in my head.
That and peeing on a gook.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That poor guy was probably peeing on a tree too.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, he probably was too.
He was snooping and pooping.
I'll tell you that much.
Yeah, if he'd have come closerhe might have thrown a grenade
down our hole, but I scared himaway without even a weapon.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, that's something.
You're not a small guy, though,so yeah yeah, so that's about.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
That's about all I got to tell you right now.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
All right, well, I got one last question for you.
Ask everyone the same question.
So, when people are listeningto this story down the road and
you and I aren't here anymore,what would you like to leave
people with?
What piece of advice would youlike to leave people with?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
What piece of advice would you like to give people?
If you can find the brotherhoodand the love of other veterans
and share that with everybody,that'll make your life better.
It'll make other people's livesbetter and the closeness you'll
(51:05):
never understand the closenessof veterans Even though we
didn't serve together, we allserved and we all know what
that's like.
And there's a brotherhood andthat brotherhood is a love of
individuals.
If that can be shared, that's awonderful thing.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
All right.
Well, thank you for that.
Thanks for taking time out thisafternoon to sit and talk.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Hey no problem.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Thank you.
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