He Didn’t Want To Go To War, But He Went And Led Men (David Dargo)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00):
Today is Thursday, October 23rd.
We're talking with David Dargo,who served in the United States
Army.
So good morning, Dave.
Good morning.
Do you prefer Dave or David?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
I usually go by Dave.
Okay.
But some of my relatives used tocall me Dave.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18):
So uh I was fine with both.
I usually get called by myformal name if I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Well, we'll start out pretty simple this morning.
When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
I was born uh 29th of April of 49 and in Romulus,
Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
Okay.
And did you grow up in theRomulus area then?
Uh I grew up in the Bellevillearea.

SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Okay.
And uh what was it like growingup?
I I grew up, it was probably theI grew up in an era of probably
the I can remember it was thebest.
I always thought everybody wasthe same, but we were just a
bunch of boys that I played toplayed with, and we did nothing

(02:02):
but play baseball, playedhockey, and uh rammed around the
neighborhood on our bikes and uhand uh challenged different kids
in the neighborhood to baseballgames and we just it was just a
lot of fun.
Picked up picked up bottlesalongside the road and we went

(02:23):
to the store and got a pop, anduh uh we had a baseball field.
We lived on seven acres, and uhmy dad built a uh backstop, and
then we had also had goal postson each end.
So my brother was big into basefootball, and I was uh I was I

(02:46):
loved baseball better thanfootball that wasn't wasn't my
sport.

SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Now did you just have one brother then?
One brother.
Okay.
Uh there was uh I was the lastborn in the family.
Uh-huh.
My brother was born in 45, andmy uh I had a well, I wasn't
born yet, but in 43, my motherhad a uh baby girl, her name was

(03:15):
Jean, and she died a couple dayslater after childbirth.
And uh the uh she had uh aforcep birth and uh they
actually crushed her skull.
Oh my gosh.
So so I often wondered whetherif sh she would have lived,

(03:40):
maybe my mother would have justhad two children instead of
having three.
So I was the last born.
That was the baby.
Okay.
So that's an interestingthought, really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I don't know, but but we werewe were very my dad, my dad had
uh uh problem finding work allthe time, and uh he finally got

(04:04):
into uh the gas stationbusiness.
And uh so uh that was uh he didthat for I don't know,
thirty-five, maybe forty years.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
He retired when he was sixtyfive.
So must have been a goodbusiness to be in.
Well, it was like, you know, thetypical gas station business,

(04:27):
and then I worked with him.
I worked with him, well, I usedto go to the station with them
all the time and just hang outthere.
Not every not all the time, butdifferent days.
Yeah.
And then sometimes after when Iwas in uh high school, uh my dad
worked uh one day he would workdays, and the next day he'd work

(04:50):
afternoons.
And uh I would go in, I'd getoff the bus, and then we'd we'd
go to work, and we'd I'd comehome at nine o'clock at night.
So so so I enjoyed work with mydad.
So it was a good experience.

SPEAKER_03 (05:08):
So Yeah, that must be I I I I can imagine that like
um a father and a son, um,you're working, but you're st I
I can see that bond there.
That's really nice.

SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yeah, it was like a good exper I then I picked up
some stuff you know, I picked upsome, you know, I was the I was
a typical kid that ran out tothe the the to the after the
bell rang.
Uh-huh.
You know, there'd be there wasbells on the when a customer
would pull in and they'd go outthere and how much, you know,
how much you fill up the tank,or sometimes it would be three

(05:43):
dollars worth of gas, or bigload was like maybe five.
Yeah.
It was like I sold gas when itwas 19 cents a gallon.
You know, maybe went up to aquarter after a while, but it
was they had these gas wars.
Right.
The gas station across thecorner, and uh it was a Sinoco

(06:03):
station.
We had the Sinoco station, anduh the other guy had a Sinclair
station, and they were kind oflike in a battle between who
could get the lower price andget the customer because that
was like a two-stall gasstation, typical two, you know,
the old-fashioned gas station.

(06:25):
So it was uh it was interesting.
You meet customers coming in andthe guys would come in and you
know, BS and uh and uh and itwas just a good experience.

SPEAKER_03 (06:36):
So you did you did car repair and stuff like that
too?

SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
So it was like a full Yeah, it was a full service
gas station.
Okay.
My dad I didn't work on thecars, but I always my dad did.
I assisted them, yeah, you know,and changed tires, you know,
whatever I could do, you know,clean the floors, you know,
whatever, you know.
We that was at the time whereyou it was made I bet you a lot

(07:02):
of it was uh we had bulk oil,and then you would take, you had
like a uh like a handle on thispump where you'd pump the oil
into these glass jars, and itwould be exactly one quart of
oil, glass jars.
So you had to handle themcarefully.

(07:23):
So because they you get too ifyou get some oil on those, the
those babies were slippery.
So things have changed a lot,haven't they?
Things have changed a lot.

SPEAKER_03 (07:32):
Yeah, you know, I I I don't I can't think of a gas
station right now where you pullin and you hear a bell anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Well, yeah, they're they're obsolete.
Yeah.
So they're obsolete.
So I can't even I don't evenremember when they got rid of
that, you know, but it was uh itwas a good experience, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (07:49):
Slowly went away.
Yeah.
But uh yeah, so what was schoollike for you?

SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
School was like uh I went to uh kindergarten at uh
public school, Belleville PublicSchool, and then uh the Catholic
school had I don't know whatyear it opened, but uh my
parents sent sent uh sent us toCatholic school, so I went from

(08:17):
uh first grade to eighth gradein the Catholic school.
Okay.
And then uh uh Catholics, wewent to uh we were we were a
Catholic family and we went tochurch every Sunday and then
when I went to school we went toMass every every day.
Oh every day before school we'dgo have a it'd be just a short

(08:39):
mass and then you'd go to uh toyour classroom.
The the church and uh the uhschoolhouse was right next to
each other.
So, you know, a lot of peoplehave uh well I hear, you know,
different uh TV programs andstuff, they always gave a bad

(09:00):
rap to the nuns and uh whatever.
But I don't know.
My uh my experience with theCatholic school was great.
And uh I don't know if I wasthey always give me the nuns
always gave me these littlechores to do, you know.
I had to uh uh go down atlunchtime and pick up the milk

(09:23):
and then deliver it to all theclasses.
And uh I did my job and theyappreciated it.
And uh I just this was just anice and we stuck together.
We had originally our my uhfirst grade class had 50 kids in
the class with one nun.

(09:44):
And then we got as we followedeach other all the way up to the
eighth grade, uh uh it wound upto be about thirty.
Thirty.
So there was some kids droppingout, you know, of the set.
But of course, you know, yourparents had to pay, not only did

(10:04):
they pay taxes, you know, theyalso had to pay uh tuition.
Right.
Which wasn't very much back thenbecause they were we had mostly
it was all nuns, all nuns thatran the school.
And uh so I had a goodexperience.

SPEAKER_03 (10:20):
Then I went to high school and uh Now did you you
I'm sorry, but did you go topublic school after Catholic
school then?
So nine.

SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
Public high school.
Okay.
That was right next door to theCatholic school.
Oh it was very it was it wasright next door.
Uh-huh.
So we when I was in Catholicschool, the at first uh the doc
not doctor, the the publicschools said, uh we're not gonna

(10:51):
we're not gonna pick up theCatholic kids on the bus route.
And uh and uh and uh pastor cameback and said, well, if you're
not gonna pick up the kids,you're just gonna have all the
kids then.
So so they they worked out anagreement that they the the
Catholic school kids were pickedup on the bus route and were

(11:12):
delivered because they wereright next to each other.
Yeah, that's right.
All you had to do was walk downthe sidewalk and uh you were at
the Catholic school.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (11:20):
So then So what was it like going from Catholic
school to public school?
Was it a big change for them?

SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
Well, you know, it was like, no, it wasn't too bad
because you know what?
They for some reason or other,they took all the Catholic
school kids and they put all ofus kids in the one room.
It was called a uh well, it wasnot that was just for the
beginning of the school day.
It was homeroom.

SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
And the homeroom lasted about 15 minutes, I'm
gonna say 15 minutes, where theygave us uh, you know, we were
some of the kids were doingtheir homework from the
previous, you know, trying tocatch up on something.
And uh uh Mrs.
Rowe, that was our homeroomteacher.
I had her for four years in arow.

(12:09):
She'd be doing like a littlebriefing in the morning and
taking a head count, you know,attendance count.
So, but uh it was uh it was agood experience.
So you all got to see each othereven through So we seen each
other, the Catholic school kidsstayed together the whole for
those for those 15 minutes, andthen we split up, went to our

(12:31):
classes because each, you know,the classes were uh about 50
minutes, 50 minutes long.
So maybe 55, I don't know,somewhere in there, 50 or 55.
And then you had six we had atthat time we had six classes.
You had six different subjectsto go to.
And sometimes you had a uh uhwhat they call study hour.

SPEAKER_03 (12:55):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
And you go to study hour, you could either go to the
study hall room, or you went ifyou got a pass, you could go to
the library.
But they could only take so manykids at the library.
Right.
So you had to have a certainspecial pass for that.

SPEAKER_03 (13:12):
So and how was high school for you?
Did you do well in school?

SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
I was uh, you know what?
I did uh I loved the work.
I loved to work.
And I did my best with like shopclasses.
That was my that was my thing.
Yeah.
And I I uh I did well with theteachers.
I I algebra was a problem for mebecause I when I went to the

(13:39):
kind of like when our first uhthe high the Catholic school
kids were a little bit ahead ofthe public school system.
So when we went to the ninthgrade, well we got into algebra,
but you know, I was really I wasreally good at math, but then
when they're they were showingme algebra, it just it didn't

(14:02):
click with me, you know.
So I didn't I did I did poorlywith algebra.
Yeah.
But all my other classes, I wasuh I was just the average
student now in school, justaverage, you know.
I didn't take no I didn't takeno college classes or anything.
Like my I don't know what theyused to call those.

(14:23):
Oh college prep.
College prep.

SPEAKER_03 (14:25):
Now they call them advanced advanced placement
classes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
So my my goal uh was uh was just I just wanted to go
after after I got out of school,I just wanted to go to work.
Go to work, get a job, and uh,and uh that's what was my you
know, just and uh I l, you know,it's just what I wanted to do.
I wasn't uh I wasn't I didn'thave one thought about going to

(14:52):
college.
No, not one.
So but so we'd stand, I rememberin the 11th and uh 11th and 12th
grade, we had our our lockerswere always just about the same
lockers all the time throughoutthe whole school high school
because our our uh homeroom wasin the same position, so that's

(15:14):
where they they'd put yourlocker at.
And uh I remember, especially inthe 11th and 12th grade, uh us
guys would be standing outsidethe locker and we'd be talking
about, you know, a year from nowor maybe two years from now,
we're gonna be in Vietnam.

(15:36):
So, you know, that was So youguys saw it coming.
We seen it coming.
Yeah.
Yeah, we seen it coming.
And uh in fact, one of the oneof the kids that uh had a well
he was locker was quite close tome.
He just lives right down theroad from me.
And we both wound up in Vietnamat the same time.

SPEAKER_03 (15:59):
So now did you see each other when you were there?

SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
No, we did not.

SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
All right.
Yep, so so you uh you uh getthrough high school then and
graduate, and uh what whathappens next?

SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
What happens next is well I was uh still working at
after I graduated from highschool.
I was then I got actually had ajob at the gas station.
Right.
So I had a got a job at the gasstation, and uh so we had
customers that would come in allthe time, and uh a man named uh
Paul Oatley, he'd come in thereand he said, you know, he said,

(16:37):
they're hiring at DeltaAirlines.
He says, You want me to get youin at Delta Airlines?
I said, well, he said, you yougo, uh he gave me a name, he
said where to go to.
So I said, well, I can't beworking in a gas station all,
you know.
So I want I wanted a regularjob.

(16:58):
So so uh I went and seen the uhstation manager there in uh
Detroit Metro Airport, and uhand uh they hired me right away.
So so yeah.
So they sent me down to Atlantafor an interview.
Right.
They put me on a plane, theysent me down to Atlanta for an

(17:19):
interview, and I was kind of uhafraid about that, you know.
It was like the first time I waswell it wasn't, yeah, it was the
first time I was ever on aplane.
Very first time.
That could be a little scary.
So yeah, it was like I was allby myself.
It was only I was only 18.
Uh-huh.
You know, I was 18, and uh, sobut uh they hired me and uh and

(17:40):
uh I started working at Delta,so uh and then uh I worked there
for not quite two years and Igot drafted.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (17:51):
And what was it what was it that what was that like
to get your draft notice?

SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
Well, when I every time I remember uh walking out
the mailbox, I knew it wascoming.
Yeah.
It was I I kind of dreaded it.
So I kind of dread because Ididn't want to I really didn't
want to go into the servicebecause my brother was in the he
was in uh he was in the army uhin uh 65-66 and he went to

(18:23):
Vietnam.
Yeah.
So while I was in high school, Iwould at uh I would actually
while I was in school, I'd havestudy all, and I'd write him a
letter right while I was inschool.
So I was writing him a letterwhile I was in school.

SPEAKER_03 (18:40):
Oh, that's nice though.

SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
So that's nice.

SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
And uh so yeah, well so you knew you were like, uh,
this probably isn't what I wantto do.
Yeah.
Was it pretty hard for him?

SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Uh he was uh MP uh and he was stationed, he was he
was in Saigon.
Okay, and but uh you know what?
I can actually say we when hegot back, we never talked about
it.
Yeah, he didn't share anyexperiences at all, not one.

(19:12):
My parents didn't ask himanything, and uh I didn't ask
him anything.

SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Not a thing.
It was like you didn't talkabout it.

SPEAKER_03 (19:23):
Just got home and got on with his life.
Yep.
Yeah.
So here you are, you finally getyour draft notice done.
And um, how did it work?
Did you just the the army pickedyou or did you pick the army?
How did that how'd that work?

SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Well, no, I just here's what happened.
I got my draft notice.
I was supposed to uh go down toFort Wayne, and that's uh that's
in Detroit.

SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
Right.
So a lot of people don't knowthat, right?

SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah, there was everybody thinks Fort Wayne is,
yeah.
Fort Wayne's right in this,right in the right in the city
of Detroit.
Uh-huh.
And it was like uh, and uh youhad to show up there and they
give you a physical, they giveyou a physical, and uh uh and
then uh past my physical, whichyou know I was in good I was in

(20:11):
good shape.
Yeah.
You know, some of the well mostof the guys were just about
everybody looked about the same,you know.
Everybody was like kind of therewas a couple guys with long
hair, but uh not too many, youknow.
We're and uh let's see.
So they they said, well, we'regonna they took us into this

(20:34):
room, and uh there was about I'mgonna say maybe a hundred guys,
somewhere around a hundred guys.
Somewhere, I don't know, itcould have been less than that.
I don't think it was more.
And they took us into the roomand they said uh there was a uh

(20:55):
an officer.
I imagine it was an officer.
At that time I really didn'twasn't paying attention, you
know.
Right.
But it was a military person.
He said, we need, we need out ofthe you guys that are standing
here, we need ten marines, hesays.
He says, there's any is thereanybody wants to be a Marine

(21:17):
here?
And and uh not one person heldup their hand.
Not one, not one person.
So he said, he just walked downthe line, he walked down the
line, and he counted to ten, andhe said, You're a Marine.
And then he went up, counted tenmore.
He says, You are now a Marine.

(21:39):
So off after after he counted itten times, there was ten Marines
standing off to one side.
They were now Marines.

SPEAKER_03 (21:49):
It was just luck of the draw, huh?

SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
So I didn't know, you know, yeah, but I just
didn't uh I just didn't uh uh II really didn't want to be in
the service at all, really, butI I I just I had to I had to go
and do my part, serve mycountry.

SPEAKER_03 (22:09):
Now, did you leave right from Fort Wayne to basic
training?
Yeah, well how did that work?
You got got your draft notice,you showed up and you went
through the physical, you didall the selection.
Did you leave like right rightthen?

SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
Well, then they yeah.
Yeah, left right there.
And what we did is uh uh theyput us on a bus to go to the
airport.

SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 (22:35):
Then they put us on all on it was like a greyhound
bus, I imagine.

SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
I can't really quite remember.
It was a it was a nice, it was anice bus, and they dropped us
off at the airport.
And they put one guy in charge.
It was like there was about atthat time they must have split
us up or something.
There was about I'm gonna sayabout 45 or 50 guys that they sp
uh somehow they split up.

(23:00):
And uh uh they put one guy incharge.
And well, he hasn't he they weall raised our hands, you know,
took the oath, and uh, and nownow you are you are officially
in the army.
Well, they marched us on, well,we we got to the bus, and

(23:21):
everybody's in civvies, civilianclothes, and you're carrying a
little bag and you know,whatever.
And uh uh all of a sudden we'rewalking down, we flew on United.
I remember I was on United, anduh all of a sudden, once we got
to the there was no security atall at that time.

(23:45):
We just walked right through theairport, you walk up to the
plane, and it was a plane thatwas just like it was
specifically, I think it wasjust all militar it was just a
military aircraft.
Not a military aircraft, but uhit was a United aircraft, but it
was just for the for the armyguys to go, and they uh shipped

(24:08):
us down to Fort Knox.
But in the meantime, we lost twoguys.
Oh.
So so so there was already twoguys that decided to the you
know, they went through thewhole process and they we lost
two guys.
So we somewhere it was like wehad 50 and we wound up at 48.

SPEAKER_03 (24:26):
Somewhere between the bus and the plane, they
ducked out.

SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
We lost we lost two guys.
Yeah.
They kind of split.
Yeah.
Whatever happened to those guys,I don't know.
So who knows?

SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
So you get to Fort Knox?

SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
So we get to Fort Knox, get to Fort Knox, and uh
it was March, March 7th, I wentinto service.
Uh-huh.
So it was nasty, nasty cold,nasty cold, and we were just
like, and it was like, well, wewere old old wooden barracks.

(25:01):
They weren't very uh weren'tvery nice, uh, according to what
my living conditions at homewere, you know.
So well, that's to be expected,right?
And yeah, and so we're it wasalways like I can still remember
that.
We had to hurry up and get tothis spot, and then we just

(25:22):
waited and waited and waited.
Hurry up and wait.
And then I stayed down there formaybe two days, maybe three
days, and all of a sudden theyfigured out there was no room
for us.
So then they loaded us on thebus.
Uh there was another bus, I'mgonna say 50 or whatever could

(25:47):
get on a greyhound bus.
Yeah.
And they hauled us down to FortJackson, South Carolina.
So then I went from Fort Knox toFort Jackson and uh uh all of us
guys on a bus.
Didn't we didn't know anybody,you know, you didn't know
anybody.
Right.
You just like, and uh I justkind of went, we went from uh I

(26:07):
what I can remember is we wentfrom it was like wintertime in
Fort Knox, and we starteddriving south, and we were
driving through all these hillyareas, and we kept it kept
getting nicer and nicer, andthen all of a sudden we got down
there, it was green.
Everything was green.
It was summer again, right?
It was like, oh it was fine withme.

(26:29):
Yeah because it was like, hey,it's warm weather.
Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:33):
And how long was how long was uh boot camp?
Remember?

SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
Boot camp was eight weeks.

SPEAKER_03 (26:38):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
Eight weeks.

SPEAKER_03 (26:39):
Talk to me a little bit about what that basically
was.

SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
So when we arrived in South Carolina, it was like
nighttime.
It was like it was probablyabout eight o'clock at night.
It was dark.
It was dark.
And uh we were driving alongthis strip.
That's why I can remember it wasa straight road, and the bus

(27:03):
would stop, the bus would stop,and they'd call out your name.
And uh and we dropped off threeguys or four guys, and then we'd
go to the next stop.
We'd and they'd call out somemore names, you know, whatever,
four, five, six names.
They'd call out those names.

(27:24):
Those guys would get off thebus.
So then it came finally my namecome up, my name came up, and
you know, uh uh got off the busand there was a there was a
sergeant there ready to meet us,and he says, and now we're we're

(27:46):
in, you know, you're actually intraining, then not training, but
you're gonna go to your to youruh basic training uh barracks
and whatever.
So one thing about the army islike you had you had they made
sure that you ate three times aday.

(28:08):
Yes.
You ate three times a day.
So eight o'clock at night wasway past way past uh meal time.
So so they they did not likethat we got there that late.
So they took us into the messhall.

(28:28):
They took us into the mess hall.
March there was only about therewas only about I'd say there was
there was only two tables.
We had right that that timethere was they had round tables
in our mess hall.
Four guys would sit at a table.
Well, they were they were kindof angry that we got there that

(28:50):
late.
They had to keep the mess hallopen.

SPEAKER_03 (28:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (28:53):
So we went through the line, got a plate of food,
and my first meal in the army,my first meal, they made us eat
underneath the table, not on thetable.
We ate underneath the table.

SPEAKER_03 (29:09):
Like it was your fault you got there so late,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Yeah.
So well, I thought I thoughtthat was hey, and and we you you
just kind of shoved it down andoff you went to the barracks.
Yeah.
So it was an experience.
I'm in the army now.
Yeah.
And you do what you tell, theydo it, you whatever they tell
you to do, you better do it.

SPEAKER_03 (29:32):
Right.
Right.
So that's how that's how bootcamp was for you.
Follow orders.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Follow orders.

SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
Yeah.
Well, and you you've been aworker your whole life, really,
so it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
Uh it was it would.
I just thought it was actually II just it was kind of it was
kind of funny to me.
Uh-huh.
But I didn't talk back to no, Inever talked back to a sergeant
or to an officer.
Never.
Never.
No, never did.

SPEAKER_03 (29:59):
Plenty of people that did though, weren't there?

SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yes, there was people that did.
Yep.
No.
So you don't, you don't, youdon't mess with those guys.

SPEAKER_03 (30:07):
No.
Uh-uh.
No.
And so you when you graduatedboot camp, did you go right on
to your AIT or your training?

SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
So that we just went right across the street, uh-huh.
Right across the street to infinfantry training then.

SPEAKER_03 (30:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (30:24):
So I was a loving Bravo.
That's in uh infantry.
So you went to more advancedtraining.

SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And did you stay with the groupthat you were in basic training
with?

SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
No, they kind of were like that.
Everybody had their differentMOSs, you know.
Okay.
So everybody had different MOSs.
So you we were, I don'tremember, somewhere in basic
training, we did testing.
Uh huh.
We did some kind of testing andthey'd and everybody uh you know
you had to pass the basics.
You had to, you know, you runyour mile.

(31:00):
Do your push-ups, do your uhpull-ups, and uh learn how to
march and uh whatever and uh anduh so then you went then you
went to uh uh infantry training.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (31:15):
And then uh do you recall how long infantry
training was?

SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
I think that was another eight weeks, too.
Okay.
It was another eight weeks.

SPEAKER_03 (31:23):
So unless you learned what, like tactics and
things like that.

SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
Yeah, we learned how to shoot shoot different we
learned how to shoot the M16, welearned how to shoot uh uh set
M79 and then uh M60, and then uhthe rocket propelled launcher.
We learned how to shoot that.
And uh, you know, it's like uhthrowing grenades, live

(31:48):
grenades, you learned how to dothat.
And uh it was like uh they keptthe eye on you that because
there were some guys that nevershot a you know, you know, shot
a rifle or a shotgun orwhatever.
No, I was used to hunting.
My I grew up hunting all my mymy dad was a rabbit hunter, so I

(32:12):
used to go rabbit hunting withhim.
Rabbit hunting and pheasanthunting.
Oh.
So we added beagles and and uhso I was used to, you know,
there's a a rifle is a is a is alot different than a shotgun,
you know.

SPEAKER_03 (32:26):
Yeah.
So so you uh did you so did youenjoy that part though?

SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Was that enjoyable for you or well I just it was I
don't know if I I don't thinkyou'd call it enjoyable, but uh
it was like I knew I had to doit.
Right, you know, so I just Ijust did it, you know.
Okay.
So, you know, it was like I justtried to do the best I could.
I wasn't uh I just I was just amarksman shot.

(32:54):
I didn't some guys were reallygood at uh, I guess you have to
be more steady or you know.
I can remember us shootingthough BB guns.
We'd shoot BB guns at, andsomebody would throw up a like a
little round disc, and you couldactually hit that thing.

(33:14):
Wow.
You know.
So they were trying to get us toto be able to react to uh you
know to uh quick movement.
Right.
Yeah, you know, but uh I nevertried that after that.

SPEAKER_03 (33:32):
Well, we go out in the backyard afterwards, we'll
we'll see how that we'll see ifwe if we still have the same
reaction time that we used tohave.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (33:41):
So you you uh you get through um your infantry
training and so then at the end,by the time I got through
infantry training, so you werekind of I was kind of like in a
uh you got to know some guys andbecome friends with guys.
You know, I call them, I don'tcall them friends anymore, I
call them buddies.

(34:02):
Yeah.
You had a buddy.
And uh now this we were talkingeach, you know, we're neither of
us wanted, you know, we didn'twant to go to Vietnam.
That's uh so and uh and my myparents didn't want me to go to
Vietnam.
Right.
So they already had one boy thatwas sent there and he made it

(34:23):
back.
And and uh so I said, well, uhhe said, you know what, let's go
to NCO school, and that'll giveus some more time in the States.
So that's exactly I signed upfor NCO school.

SPEAKER_03 (34:39):
Right.
And for people listening, NCO'snon-commissioned officer, so
that's like the sergeant.

SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
You'd be have once you got out of that training
another eight weeks, it would beyou'd be a sergeant right off
the bat.
Wow.
You'd be a sergeant.
So you would go from a privateto a sergeant in a matter of uh,
let's see, eight, eight, andeight.
That'd be twenty-four weeks.
Yeah, that's pretty quick.
Yeah, pretty quick.

(35:04):
So, what was NCO school like?
So NCO school was oh, I hatedNCO school.
Oh no.
I hated it.
I actually I I it was like itwas like basic training all over
again.
Running, running, running, youknow, and it was kind of like
they took us down to uh uh FortBenning, and we actually uh I

(35:31):
was at Fort Benning, uh, and uhthey took us to the barracks, a
bunch of us guys, and right onthe building that we were going
in, it says condemned.
It says condemned.
So they gave us a bunch ofpallets and hammers and saws

(35:53):
that to fix the hole in thebuilding.
So I was right into that.
Yeah.
Because I kind of like work.
That's right up your alleythere.
Yeah.
So it had a old, it had an olduh uh cold-fired uh hot water

(36:13):
system for the not the not somuch the heat the building, it
was just for taking showers andstuff.
So I can still remember that.
And uh it was like it was likeit was from uh World War II,
yeah.
You know, where all the guyswent from World War II.
So they had the same uh sameconditions, but but that that

(36:39):
building was condemned, youknow, when we went into it.
Right.
By the time you got there.
We fixed it up though.
Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_03 (36:46):
The next guy's coming in, right?

SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Yeah.
So anyway, then uh abouthalfway, three-quarters of the
way through, I uh went into theoffice.
I said, I said, I'm done.
I said, I'm done.
Just send me the Vietnam.
I said, I'm done.
I said, I I don't I don't want Idon't want no more training.

(37:11):
So then they made me, they said,okay, you know, we'll do what,
you know, you're not gonna go tothe training.
I said, I'm done with training.
Uh so they made me a truckdriver.
They made me a truck driver forabout two weeks.

(37:31):
So that was a truck.
I said, I was the only one,there wasn't too many guys.
Somehow they ra they asked whenI was uh, I think I was in the
NCO school, and they they uh wewere out in formation one day
and they said, is there anyanybody that can drive a truck

(37:54):
here?
A deuce and a quarter, that'swhat we called them.

SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:58):
And uh and it's uh it's got a clutch in.
I said, I I I was well, I wasn'tgonna raise my hand, but I
raised my hand, you know.
I said that I raised my hand sothat I was a truck driver for a
little while.
I said, hey, that's better thanthat's better than uh being in
the infantry.
Right.

(38:18):
But that didn't last too long.
Two weeks.
That didn't last too long.
Uh-huh.
So then I got uh eventually Igot my orders and uh uh you were
to uh they sent you back home.
They sent you back home, and uhuh I was home for, I don't know,

(38:42):
a week or something like that.
Then I was supposed to re reportto Vietnam.
So my my b my dad was didn'twant me to go.
He wanted me to go to Canada.
I said, what you know, what am Igonna do in Canada?
You know?
Right.
I can't leave my I can't leaveyou guys, you know.

(39:05):
So I stayed home.
I stayed home, and this wasright around, now this time it
was right around uh December Iwas home.
So it was from March I went intoservice.
Now it's December.
It's December.
So I stayed home.

(39:27):
Then there was talk.
There was talk.
You know, all the guys talkedtogether.
You know, we're all going, we'reall going to Vietnam.
We're all going to Vietnam, youknow.
So he says, well There's justtalk there's just a lot of talk,
you know.
What what what you should do.
So so uh I wanted to stay staywith my dad to my uh my dad's

(39:54):
birthday was on uh the uh tenthof December and it was uh
somewhere before the tenth ofDecember.
So I was supposed to report uhright around the end of
November.
Okay.

(40:15):
And uh so uh I I stayed homesome extra days.
So I was basically AWAL.
Right.
I was AWA.
Yeah.
So then I got I got uh I got ona plane at Metro Airport, flew
out to Oakland, flew out toOakland, and uh uh so I met a

(40:42):
guy at the airport, he wasanother he said, God, I don't
know what they're gonna do withme.
He says, I'm a couple hourslate.
I said, don't worry about it.
I'm 12 days late.
I says, so I said, I'm 12 dayslate.
I said, you know where we'regoing, don't you?
We're going to Vietnam.
So, so so anyway, they they hadabout a hundred guys, somewhere

(41:07):
around a hundred guys, we hadto, we had to uh stand in
formation, and one by one guyhad to go into the office and
report to an officer.
Yeah.
Sleute the officer, go down, sitdown, and and they give us

(41:28):
article 15.
So I got my first article 15.
Pretty early on.
Pretty early on.
Yeah.
And they said, we're gonna fineyou for being 12 days late.
We're gonna fine you$3 a day.
And I thought, wow, what's thedeal?

(41:49):
Right.
$36.
I got to stay home for for 12extra days.

SPEAKER_03 (41:54):
Well, you got to see your dad's birthday.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
So, yeah.
So, so I I stayed home tillthen.
And then I so then we were outin formation, and uh uh there
was one song that kept playingover and over again.
And that was we had like a therewas like a jukebox there.

(42:21):
Yeah.
And some uh some uh you could goand it was like a little, I I
guess you'd call it a PX.
And uh you get a Coke there orsomething, and and there was one
song that the guys kept playingover and over again.
It was no other song played, andthat was uh Leaving on a Jet

(42:44):
Plane.

SPEAKER_03 (42:45):
Oh, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
It was by uh John Denver at the time, uh-huh.
And uh the mamas and the papasalso sang it.
Yeah.
Leaving on the jet plane.
And they just put the guys justkept playing that over and over
again, leaving on the jet plane.
So I stayed there uh about aday, about a day or maybe, no, I

(43:09):
think it was the day.
And uh we went through, we wentthrough, uh, got some more
uniforms and whatever, and uh,and when we were at, that was at
Oakland, and we were goingthrough there, and the guys that

(43:31):
were coming back from Vietnamwere on top, were on the second
story, and the guys that weregoing were on the first story,
and we were crossing paths.
We were crossing paths.
I kind of like looked up atthem.
I said, Oh, those guys look alot older than me.
I said, they all look kind ofweathered.

(43:52):
Yeah.
They all look weathered andstuff.
At that time they were, theywere coming home and they're
they came home in fatigues atthat time, you know.
And whatever, because when youwere over there, uh uh all the
uniforms got washed so manytimes that they were like very w

(44:15):
very weathered.
Right.
They were kind of a a differentkind of a green, different kind
of a green.
Kind of faded, huh?
And faded and yeah.
So it was kind of like I lookedat those guys, they looked, wow,
are they they look a lot olderthan me, you know.
And we were only like maybe ayear apart, you know so and uh

(44:40):
so we got on a got on a bus, goton a bus from after that, and uh
by this time it was nighttimeagain.
It was night, and they loaded usall on a bus and and got on the
got on the road, and all of asudden uh the bus driver pulls

(45:06):
off the road and he opens thedoor.
He opens the door up, and uh hestood up, he says, I'm gonna
take this bus right up to plainside, he says.
He said, We're you're not you'renot gonna go into the terminal
or nothing.
You're gonna go, I'm gonna driveit right up to the where the

(45:30):
where the stairs is to go up tothe aircraft.
He says, if any anybody wants toget off right now, I don't know
a thing, he says.
And the guys kind of looked ateach other and uh nobody got
off.
Nobody got off.
So he shut the door and we wereon our way.

(45:52):
Wow.
And uh went to plain side and uhgot on the got on the I don't
know what kind of plane it was.
I don't remember the uh theairline that I flew on.
Yeah.
So now was that did they takeyou directly to Right to it was
right, it was it went out ofOakland and Oakland and we flew

(46:16):
to uh we flew to uh Japan.
Okay.
Yeah.
Then from Japan we stoppedthere, fuel stop, and then from
Japan to Vietnam.

SPEAKER_03 (46:28):
And where did you where did you land in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
Uh Benoit.
Okay.
Benoit.

SPEAKER_03 (46:33):
What was what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 (46:35):
That was like uh, you know, the guys on the plane,
uh it was a full pl you know, itwas a full plane.
They, you know, they loaded upevery seat, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
And uh I can still remember the flight attendants
looked pretty nice, you know.
They were all nice lookinggirls, and the guys, you know,
were all young guys.
Yeah.
And uh uh there was like a lotof talk, you know, and laughing
and stuff like that.
So and uh all of a sudden the uhpilot made an announcement and

(47:14):
we're coming in for a landing,you know, you know, and uh there
was not enough windows to lookout of that the guys were trying
to look out to the landscape andsee what it looked like.
I can still remember, I said,damn, there's nothing.
There's all these holes downthere filled with water.

(47:36):
I said, there's nothing left ofthe place.
There's nothing, nothing left ofthe place.
I said, there's nothing butholes.
That was from B-52 bombers thatbombed over the the entrance to
the airport, not the entrance,but uh pathway to the airport.
Yeah.
And uh we landed at the airportand, you know, uh got off the

(48:00):
plane, and it was like, it waslike they opened the doors up
and uh uh the plane was airconditioned on the way over
there, you know, it was likevery comfortable.
It was like walking into anoven.
It was like, I mean, it was justlike the heat just and when they

(48:24):
opened the doors up and westarted walking down, there was
a there was a group of guys,well there was a there was like
a little, it was all uh just abuilding, but there was no
windows in it or nothing.
It was all clear.
And there was nothing but cheerand a roar, a roar of of uh

(48:48):
other guys, that was their birdthat they were going home on.
Yeah.
Their freedom bird.
We called it the freedom bird.
And and then they said, you,you, and you go unload the
plane.
And I was one of those you've.
Because I worked at the airport,so I was used to doing that.
Right.

(49:09):
So that's what I that was myjob.
I was a loader at the airport.
Uh we unloaded all the duffelbag, unloaded all the duffel
bag, went into uh, went into uhthere there were some more buses
that met us there.
And then uh I can remember thebuses, it was like uh we put our

(49:32):
duffel bags kind of underneathand uh there was no windows in
the in the in the buses.
Absolutely no windows.
And there was this there washeavy like uh uh like a mesh uh

(49:54):
wire that went up where thewindows were.
So well I kind of figured outthat what that was about, so
nobody could throw a grenade inthere, you know, and wipe out
the whole bus.
Right.
Yeah, so so that from there Iwent to uh we went to uh you
know, like some barracks, and uhthen uh what you had to do is uh

(50:20):
uh we they gave us littleassignments to do, and I did I
did KP for the officers,Messhaw, and I I couldn't
believe it.
I was I said, well, this ain'tbad, you know.
You know, the officers have theyhad round tables over there and

(50:41):
they had tableclaws with flowerson them.
I couldn't I said, oh my gosh, Icouldn't believe this.

SPEAKER_03 (50:49):
Like a fancy restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 (50:50):
Yeah, it was like it's it was nice.
Yeah, yeah.
So then every day we'd we standout in line, and uh uh they you
waited till your name was calledout.
And when your name was calledout, finally uh a couple days
down the line, my name wascalled out.
He said, you're going to theyou're going to the first calve.

(51:13):
So that's that's where I went.
So off I they put me on a theyput me on a uh helicopter.
I flew out to to uh a firebase.
It was fire base Jamie.
It was firebase Jamie, and Istayed there uh a couple days.

(51:38):
And I remember my fur my veryfirst night I stayed there.
Uh I slept in a foxhole, andthere was there were so many
mosquitoes there that I finallygot a a handkerchief or
something, put it over my facebecause the mosquitoes are just
tearing me up.

SPEAKER_03 (51:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (51:59):
So then they said uh uh they called up and the
officer came up to me, officeror sergeant, I still wasn't
quite sure about anything in theservice then at that time.
And you didn't, you justlistened to everybody, and they
said, Dargo, you're going out tothe field tomorrow.

(52:20):
So uh so I went out to the fieldon Christmas morning.
On Christmas morning, so I wentout to the field when the guys
got logged.
We called it getting logged.
Logged is when you're uh gettingthe company was getting
resupplied out in the field.

(52:41):
Okay.
So, yeah, so we called itlogged.
And uh and uh went out to thefield and I was like I was like
kind of r very scared.
And uh got off the chopper anduh uh uh got with my squad uh

(53:04):
because I was uh one of the whatthey call them FNGs.

SPEAKER_03 (53:10):
And yeah And if you know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (53:13):
Yeah.
And uh so I remember each guy uhthere was about eight guys in
the squad.
Maybe usually about eight, nine.
And uh so I had my backpackalready, you know, it was all

(53:34):
packed and I had everything Ineeded.
And all of us there was this oneguy would pass me, he says,
here, carry this.
And another guy would say, here,carry this.
And another guy would say, here,carry this.
And then you had, and then uh bythe time I had all this stuff in

(53:56):
my backpack, I couldn't even getoff the ground or it weighed
more than you did, didn't it?
Oh my god.
Then we had to go hump.

SPEAKER_03 (54:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:04):
So, yeah, so then just a few days later, it wasn't
too much, and uh I was walkingpoint.
I was walking point right from Iwalked point.
Really?
So uh I was pretty good at uh Iwas always good at observation.
I could always see what wasahead of me.

(54:27):
When I was pheasant hunting orrabbit hunting, a lot of times
we I always spotted rabbits whenthey were sitting down.
You you could see them sitting,I I would spot them.
Or pheasants, sometimes you spotthem actually sitting, thinking
that.
So I was pretty good at youknow, uh doing stuff like that.

(54:47):
They give me my machete andwe're hacking through the
jungle.
We did that every day, everyday.
So then I went from there, andthen I stayed like that for, I
don't know, um about a monthprobably, and then they uh they
gave me the radio to carry.
They gave me the radio.

(55:08):
So I was with this, I was withthe squad leader at that time.
So I really didn't like carryingradio either, because that that
also, not only did you have abackpack, now you got a radio
that weighed, I'm gonna say, Idon't know, maybe weighed 15
pounds or something like that.
Yeah, they were pretty big andheavy.

(55:30):
They were very big and this longantenna.
Yeah.
The antenna, I didn't like thatidea at all.
So, but hey, they I did what Iwas told to do.
So, and after that, it was likeuh uh and you keep progressing.
Then I was carrying the uh thenafter that I I did that for

(55:53):
about two months, I think.
And then I they uh they saidyou're gonna carry the M79 from
now on, not not the M16.

SPEAKER_03 (56:04):
And the M79's with the great grenade launcher.
It was a grenade launcher,right.

SPEAKER_00 (56:08):
Okay.
So you you had you had uh andthen it was a short little
weapon, but uh the rounds werequite heavy.
Yeah.
We had shotgun rounds, and itwas called a shotgun round and
actually a grenade round round.
And you had to kind of in thejungle, it's pretty tough

(56:31):
shooting those babies.
You had to shoot the shotgunround if you did shoot.

SPEAKER_01 (56:35):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 (56:36):
You didn't very s because the the cover of the the
terrain, you couldn't shoot theweapon up hardly, you know,
because of the branches andwhatever.

SPEAKER_03 (56:48):
Just bounce back at you.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:50):
Right exactly.
Yep.
So after after that, uh, I don'tknow.

SPEAKER_03 (56:57):
As uh So were you were you with the squad the
whole time you were there then?

SPEAKER_00 (57:04):
You know, I was yep.
Well, well, believe it or not,is like every little while
something happens to somebody.

SPEAKER_01 (57:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:14):
Something happens.
Somebody, somebody we had guysthat literally passed out, you
know, walking, uh, walking everyday.
Hump, I we called it humping.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (57:27):
Well, because you're humping all that stuff on your
back and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 (57:31):
We go up and down, up and down.
Yeah.
And then we walked in a singlefile about somewhere around
eight to ten feet apart, youknow.
Eight to ten feet apart.

SPEAKER_03 (57:44):
Now you're just looking for the enemy at this
point?

SPEAKER_00 (57:46):
Yes, we were just just looking for for the we
called them the gooks.
Yep.
Yeah.
So we're just looking and uhwe'd stop and then uh uh and
look for trails.
We'd look for trails.
And we never went down a trailif we found a trail.

(58:08):
And then we'd set up by thetrail.
So you'd set up by a trail andthen put your uh uh claymore
mines out.
Right.
And uh whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (58:21):
You basically set up for an ambush then.
Right.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (58:24):
Yep.
So but every night we sat up inthe we set uh or set up in a
circle the whole company.
There's somewhere around uh nineninety to a hundred guys,
including everybody, you know.

(59:19):
And you'd each squad would wouldbe uh uh eight guys would squad
in the next squad next to you,and there was four squads to a
platoon, and there was fourplatoons to a company.
And then uh the the officer anduh first sergeant would always

(59:43):
kind of be in the middle.
Right.
They had they had different, andthey had uh radio man too, and
they had uh I always remembereduh one of the guys always had to
have this big book with them,kind of a book.
They kept track of all uh whowas out in the field, you know,
you know, whatever.

(01:00:03):
They kept pretty they keptpretty good records that way.
I always thought.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:08):
So yeah, so when you set up these ambushes, did you
ever have an occasion toactually like encounter the
enemy?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:18):
So after a while, my squad alone, I don't know if
it's other squads, but theychanged their strategy.
The uh army did.
Or the first cav, I don't knowwho it was who.
And they had squads with they'ddrop us off all by ourselves,

(01:00:41):
one squad.
That would be eight guys out inthe jungle out in the middle of
nowhere, and and and we'd set upfor an ambush.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:55):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:56):
Or we would close a fire base.
We sat one day we sat and weclosed the fire base and they
took all the well, they took allthe artillery pieces off the
fire base, and they everybodyleft the fire base, and then
they said, somehow my squad gotpicked to uh just go go out

(01:01:22):
there.
We sat in the bamboo for aboutfour days.
We sat out in the bamboo forfour days, just looking at that
that flat area out there, andall of a sudden, all of a
sudden, uh There they come.
There's two of them come up,come out up from the other side.

(01:01:46):
They were probably looking forfood, you know, because I don't
think they were very well fed.
Yeah you know.
And uh so that was at the time Iwas still carrying the radio.
And uh we we called it in.
We called it into the I don't Idon't remember the the base.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:09):
Yeah, like your higher headquarters.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:11):
And out comes a out comes a Cobra helicopter.
And and uh uh Cobra helicopter,he came uh kind of like down,
come he was coming down, and thethese two guys were out in the
middle.

(01:02:31):
They they got caught right outin the middle.
It was like it was like probablythree, four hundred feet across
this open area at least, maybefive hundred.
They got caught right on thethey were right on the berm.
And uh and uh these sons of gunswere like this helicopter

(01:02:52):
started beating down on them,and they s they stood up there,
they stood up there shooting atthe helicopter with their with
their AKs.
And it was like, and the the guymissed them.
He missed them.
He completely missed them.
And they ran the wrong way.

(01:03:14):
They ran right towards us.
So so we took them out.
So the M's, the guy that was uh,his name was Pork Chop.
We had uh we had uh nicknamesfor everybody there.
His name uh he was the blackguy, uh huh.
Porkjop, I got along with himreally well.

(01:03:35):
And uh, and uh he he was a realsturdy black guy.
I mean he was he was muscular,and they gave him the M60
because that was a heavy weapon.
And uh he opened up on him andand then got him and we didn't

(01:03:55):
do nothing.
We didn't do nothing.
And then they told us, theysaid, now you have to walk two
clicks and for pickup.
So I could I still couldn'tbelieve well they I don't know

(01:04:15):
if they didn't on they didn'twant us to know what but they
knew if these guys were if therewas somebody on the other side,
they you know, they knew wherewhere we were at.
Right.
So but we had to go to our backand walk a couple clicks and uh
and uh for pickup.

(01:04:37):
So then got our compass out andwalked two clicks, and then
because there wasn't too manyopen areas where a helicopter
could get in to pick you up.
You know, it was like it waslike a lot of jungle, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:51):
Yeah, they kind of had to guide you to the right
spot.
Yeah.
So yeah.
So you flew in, you encounteredthese two guys, and then you
just walk back and fly back out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:00):
Yeah, so it was like that.
I don't know how many times, howmany flights I took.
I took at least, I know I was onI got an air metal.
You had to have 25 flights, andI got I was on more than a lot
more than 25 flights, you know,and uh they call them uh air

(01:05:22):
assault, air assaults, or Idon't know, I'm not sure quite
sure what they called them, butbut you know, you were uh you
were going from one spot to thenext spot, you know.
Well that's what we did all thetime, you know.
Some sometimes we'd uh uh therewas one squad and sometimes

(01:05:42):
they'd pick up the whole comp wea whole company would fly in.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:46):
So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:48):
But when uh we had uh we were in another area, and
then uh see that was then I wasI was walking point then.
I was still walking point.
All these and we flew into anarea, and uh the grass was about
at least two foot high, maybethree foot high.

(01:06:09):
It was really grassy, and uh andit was high.
And uh and about four to fivehelicopters, maybe six, would
land at a time at this uh thislocation, and we waited till the

(01:06:29):
whole company got in, and thenwe kind of worked our way to the
one side, and well, we got tothe one side, and uh I was
walking point, and all of asudden there was holes around
the whole perimeter of thatarea.

(01:06:51):
They dug foxholes around thewhole open area, and I just
thought to myself, you know, Idon't know if they took
surveillance to this area orwhat, but we could have got
wiped out because they wouldhave been in holes and we were
just on flat ground with nothinguh, you know.

(01:07:12):
So I walked a little bit furtherand all of a sudden I spotted
AK-47.
It was in one of these holes,and uh called a sergeant over
there, and we were looking atit.
We thought it might bebooby-trapped.
Yeah.
And uh kept looking at it,looking at it, and it was like,

(01:07:36):
well, they made the choice, theystood back and they said, Well,
you go, you go get it.
You go get the AK.
And uh it looked okay to me, soI got I got it.
And uh we walked to just we justwalked a little bit further,
we're just and all of a suddenthere's this guy right in front

(01:08:00):
of us.
He was he was running the otherway, you know, another gook.
And uh uh the whole squad openedup on him.
And I think that was his weapon,somehow somehow he got caught.
He got caught out of, you know,he was probably what we used to

(01:08:24):
call him a forward observer.
Uh he's looking for they'd goback and tell, you know, their
uh NVA, you know, a group of usjust landed in and which
direction they're headed, youknow.
So he got caught in a rockwithout his weapon, and uh uh so

(01:08:50):
uh that's just the way it was.
That's how it was over there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:54):
So how how long were you there?

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:56):
How long was I there?

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:58):
Yeah, how long were you in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:00):
I was there 11 months and five days, yeah.
Yeah.
I got a 25-day early, early out.
Uh uh President Nixon uh starteduh winding winding w the war
down.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:20):
Yeah, they were having the peace talks, right?
That kind of thing.
Yeah.
So what year what year wouldthis have been?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:26):
What year?

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:27):
It was in 70.
Okay, 1970.
But I was in bef before that,after that, or uh I was uh our
whole uh I don't know if it wasthe whole first cab, but it was
35,000 of the first cab.
That's a lot of guys, let metell you.
We all flew into Cambodia at thesame time.

(01:09:51):
Uh I never seen so manyhelicopters in my life.
It was like it was like, and weflew into this area that was
bombed out by V V-52s.
It looked, it looked, it wasjust a disaster area.
Yeah.
And uh there were certainhelicopters that were being shot
at yet.

(01:10:13):
You know, taking, taking uh, youknow, taken rounds from the
ground, you know, as we werecoming in.
Not our helicopter, though.
So I was uh very fortunate atthat.
So we landed in uh Cambodia anduh we were there for 25 days.

(01:10:34):
25 days, and that's where my uhmy friend got killed.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:40):
Yeah, what what happened?
If you don't mind telling me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:44):
We were uh uh again, my squad, or our squad, uh I was
uh I at that time I wascarrying, I was what by that
time I was walk and drag.
That would be just about thelast position.

(01:11:05):
And we landed and uh we wentinto a rubber plantation, and
first time I ever seen rubbertrees in my life.
It was uh they were all in arow, it was quite neat, you
know, like like maybe an appleorchard, but very big trees, and
uh bare ground.

(01:11:27):
We set up in there, and then uhthey told us we have to run a
patrol out in this direction,and uh so my squad went in that
direction, and uh and uh wewalked uh out about I don't know
how far we walked, and uh wewere crossing a little, we were
just crossing a little stream.

(01:11:50):
It was like it was about eight,ten foot wide with about two
foot of water in it, maybe.
And uh we were just about tocross it and they opened up on
us.
And uh they shot uh M s the M60gunner and shot him right in the

(01:12:16):
chest.
Shot him in the chest.
And he shot him right in theheart and uh he fired his weapon
for a few seconds, he passedout.
We all kind of scrambled to getup closer.

(01:12:37):
There was a lot of yelling, alot of yelling and screaming.
And uh one guy, he was asouthern guy, I can't quite
remember I can't remember hisname, but it was the first time
that he was in contact, and hecurled up in a little ball.

(01:12:59):
He actually just so I grabbedhis M79, I grabbed it and
grabbed his ammo and got up intothe small little creek or stream
and uh started shooting grenadesthat way.
And uh uh and then we decided topull back.

(01:13:22):
What are we gonna what are wegonna do?
So and then uh well Kendall wasdead, so we had to go back.
We drug him back, and we had bythat time we had to go across

(01:13:43):
the open field.
There was an open field.
And one of the guys spotted asniper up in the tree, and uh uh
we took him out, and uh, but westill had to cross this opening,

(01:14:03):
which was about it wasn't muchof an opening, maybe 150 feet,
but it yours seemed like a longway.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:11):
That's a yeah, 150 feet can be like the body.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:14):
Yeah, and I st I still have dreams, I had dreams
about this for years, that umwe're going across this opening
and dragging this guy, and anduh I'm yelling, but nothing's
coming out of my mouth.
Nothing's coming out.

(01:14:34):
I'm yelling as hard as I can,nothing got to the other side,
made it.
And uh we got Kendall back tothe to the uh rubber plantation
or rubber trees is I don't wantto call it a plantation.

(01:14:58):
And then put somehow there was athere was a body bag there
already.
So they delivered a body bag outto the to the that area in
between the time we're inbetween the time we were going
there, out on patrol, to thetime we got back, put him in the

(01:15:20):
body bag, and then we just satthere and we sat there and we
sat there.
Waited for another helicopter tocome in to take him away.
So I just I said, what's thisfor?

unknown (01:15:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:36):
You know, what is it for?
You know, or talking to the guyuh one minute, and next minute
he's dead.
So, because we were closetogether.
We were in our squad, we'rebuddies, you know.
So, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:53):
Did that make it difficult because you just never
know, you just you don't knowwhat's gonna happen, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:59):
You didn't know one from one day to the next.
Right.
From one day to the next.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:02):
Or when it was gonna be your turn.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:04):
When it's gonna be so when we were over there, when
we'd get logged, that'sresupplied, uh every once in a
while a chaplain would fly in.
And that was a militarychaplain.
He was dressed in fatigues, anduh uh he'd have a small he had

(01:16:29):
to go around all over becauseuh, you know, he went up to each
squad.
We'd we'd be in a little huddle,and we'd say some prayers
together.
And uh uh he was a Catholicchapel chaplain, so he'd service
communion.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:47):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:48):
And I know all the guys weren't Catholic, you know,
but they all took communion.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:56):
Yeah, what's the old saying?
There's no atheists in a foxhall.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:59):
When when you were out there, uh you prayed to God
that you were gonna make it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Every day.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:06):
Every day.
Yep.
So every day I put a little, Ihad a little calendar in my uh
in my uh I kept kept uh I had awallet that was in my ammo box.
My ammo box was an M60 ammo box.
I kept all my paper, paper or mywriting paper and my letters

(01:17:31):
that I received from home, sometoothbrush, whatever, just in
that ammo box so it wouldn't getwet because it was always
raining over there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:41):
Everything was wet, right?
Everything was wet.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:44):
We lived in miserable conditions.
Yeah.
So there was days where wasthere there was like one time I
was out in the field, we wereout in the field for 25 straight
days without taking a shower.
Believe me, you're gross.
Yeah.
You're gross.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:01):
But everybody was anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:02):
So everybody was gross.
Yeah, so I tried to keep clean,but you know, but if we'd if
we'd find uh sometimes we uh weran out of water and we'd dip
our canteens into uh uh B-52craters that were full of water,

(01:18:25):
and we needed water, so thenyou'd give uh you put a tablet
in it, and it really it was wet,but it was sure gross.
Uh it tasted just awful.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:36):
Yeah, would you put like iodine in it or something?

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:39):
The little tablet that you put in it.
Yeah, we kept them.
Yeah.
So you had to have water.
Uh I carried five or six quartsof water on me for three days.
And believe me, that's not a lotof water when uh for for a three
or four-day period.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:00):
And then some days we didn't get logged because we
didn't, we weren't in the rightposition to get logged.
So it was uh it was uh every daywe did the same thing.
We humped, set up, dug holes,hump, set up, and dug holes, you

(01:19:20):
know.
Like Groundhog's Day.
Yeah, yeah.
So it was the same thing everyday.
Yeah.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:27):
And you did that for 11 months and five days.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:30):
Yeah.
So I was so glad.
I was so glad when uh uh well, Ididn't really know I didn't know
what was happening over here, Ito tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:42):
And some of the guys that were over there back in the
river, you know, they they couldplay music and stuff like that,
and they they kind of knew whatwas happening.
But uh if you were in theinfantry, uh, you were out in
the boon, we called it theboonies.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:01):
We didn't have no radios, you know, like
transistor radios, you know,there was none of that.
There was just like, you know,you're you're just lucky to uh
uh get a letter from home thatwe let we you would re- you uh I
used to reread letters fromhome.

(01:20:23):
Mom would send me uh maybe alittle clipping on how the Red
Wings were doing or how thetigers were doing, you know,
keeping me informed uh of thesports, you know.
The important things.
Yeah, the important things.
Yeah.
And uh the three things wetalked about most, uh uh there

(01:20:44):
was like I was uh I still keepin contact with one of the guys,
his name is Elliott Metro, anduh he was from Pennsylvania, and
we called each other all thetime.
Every once in a while we calleach other.
Yeah.
And us, and there was one guy,his my sergeant was Sergeant

(01:21:05):
Stackpole, and we just calledhim Stack.
We didn't go by sergeant overthere or officer or whatever.
We just called each other bynicknames.
His name was Stackpole, but wecalled him Stack.
And uh uh we would talk uh aboutsports, about what kind of car

(01:21:29):
we're gonna get when we get backhome.
That was important, and sleepingbetween two clean sheets.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:40):
It was like so.
Did you have a nickname when youwere there?
After a while, my nickname wasuh I don't know if I should say
that.
It's perfectly okay.
And they called me uh theycalled me Lifer, uh-huh, and

(01:22:01):
then they said fucking lifer.
And that's because that's when Imade sergeant over there.
Right.
And then they called me becauseI was not too many guys made
sergeant without maybe beingthere.
Uh you know, I made sergeant at10 months.

(01:22:24):
Yeah.
So it was like I went from, youknow, uh from having Article 15
on my record to a sergeant.
Yeah, and but I didn't get uh Ididn't get wounded and uh uh I
didn't get sick, you know.

(01:22:46):
I went over there at 178 and Icame home at 145.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:52):
So and uh so when you were coming back, you were
one of those weathered old guys,right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:59):
Uh yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But uh but then we were on uhone of our fire bases.
We set up a this is the this wasall before we went into
Cambodia.
We we always worked withinprobably, I'm gonna say the

(01:23:21):
first my well the first cav,probably all of the first cav,
but our company, we workedwithin probably a half a mile of
Cambodia the whole time.
We were right along the border.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:35):
So we set up a fire base, and it was fire base
Atkinson, and uh uh we werethere, it was like they flew in
all these bulldozers and uhartillery pieces, and we were we
were building a fire base, andwe filled sandbags, and and uh

(01:24:00):
the the distance between uh thedistance between the uh the berm
and uh wire was not very much.
You know, not very much.
And we were we were absolute welook, we we were so dirty when

(01:24:20):
we were doing this because itwas we were sweating and there
was helicopters coming in allthe time, blowing dust.
I got a picture of myself.
I almost looked like a blackguy.
Yeah.
That's how dirty I was.
I got a picture of it.
So the talk was is that the talkwas is that we're gonna get hit.
We're gonna get hit.

(01:24:41):
And and uh I was on guard dutythat night and went to bed.
Not not bed, but I had an earlyguard duty, and it was just
dark.
I took my shoes off, took myboots off, to air my feet out,
and all of a sudden I heardthese rockets coming in.

(01:25:06):
It was like they make sounds,you know, like a like a
whistling sound kind of.
Rockets were coming in, and allof a sudden all hell broke
loose.
And it was completely dark, andall of a sudden there uh rockets

(01:25:27):
were landed right around me.
And luckily uh we fought halfthe night, and there was
helicopters coming and going allnight because of we were running
out of ammo.
And w when we got it come tothen a helicopter crashed right

(01:25:49):
in front of me, and he waswithin, I'm gonna say he was in
fifty feet of fifty feet ofthis.
He crashed.
They were they were taking uhthey were taking uh hits from uh
uh one of their big guns.
And uh the guy, I don't know ifit was the pilot, I think it was

(01:26:13):
one of the pilots.
He he jumped out and thehelicopter was kind of a mess
where the blade was wobbling.
And he if he would have juststayed in that position, he
would have probably made it.
But he ran towards us berm andthat blade hit him right in the
head.
I mean it hit him right in thehead.

(01:26:34):
He was he was dead instantly,yeah, you know.
So we were debating whetherYellin should we go get him, and
he wasn't he didn't move at all.
The other guys made it in, butjust the one guy didn't make
over the berm.
And uh we woke up we didn't wakeup in the morning, we we stayed

(01:26:59):
up all night and uh it wasmorning time and uh when
daylight come we were kinda incharge over there.
At night time they were incharge and uh there was sixty

(01:27:24):
bodies laying in front of us.
They killed eight of us andtwenty-five guys were wounded
right around me.
So I was a lucky guy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:36):
One of the lucky guys.
And I often wondered, it waslike why why was it them and not
me?
Right.
But so then they had us goingout and searched the bodies.
Search the bodies.
And uh we took a coupleprisoners, there was a couple

(01:27:57):
prisoners, and then some of theguys wanted to shoot 'em.
And one of the guys he keptsaying something over and over
again in Vietnamese.
We didn't understand him.
And all of a sudden it came tous he he wanted water.
He was he was he wanted water.

(01:28:18):
Yeah.
So we give him a canteen ofwater.
And uh uh they wanted us to gosearch the bodies.
I went out and you know, tookyour took your M sixteen uh well
I took a M sixteen at that timewhen I went out there.

(01:28:41):
I was c carrying M79.
But uh I couldn't go through thebodies.
And uh one of the guys opened upthe guy's shirt pocket.
He had a picture of hisgirlfriend.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:02):
This is the NVA.
Yeah.
He was they were they were justyoung guys like us.
They had girlfriends, wives, andfamilies.
We didn't know each other andwere trying to kill each other.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:16):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:16):
So so we lost we lost a third of our company,
about a third.
Twenty-five guys were wounded,eight guys were killed, and uh
uh uh then all of a sudden uhthere was a uh I see a big

(01:29:44):
Chinook helicopter coming in andthey were bringing in a
bulldozer.
They were bringing in abulldozer to dig a mass grave.
Right.
Well, luckily I didn't have todo that, you know.
And then they said to us, uh,suit up, we're getting ready,
we're moving out.

(01:30:05):
Now, I just thought to myself,look, they we just lost a third
of our company, and we're stillmoving out.
The guys that were left, and wewalked off that firebase, and
we're out in the jungle again.
Now, I guess they broughtanother company in to secure

(01:30:26):
that firebase.
I'm sure they did.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:29):
They must have.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:30):
Yeah, so but uh I didn't know.
We never went back to thefirebase again.
No, never went back to it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:36):
It's kind of incredible that you went through
all of that and then it was juston to the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:40):
Yeah, it's just like yeah, and then it's like, okay,
we got they got eight kills, wegot sixty kills, and maybe maybe
there was more than sixty kills,you know, because they dragged
some of them.
Some of the guys were allbandaged up and they were still
fighting.
I couldn't believe it.
It was like it was like weird.

(01:31:02):
They still were coming.
They had bandages on them, andthey were still coming, doing,
crawling up to us.
So, so it was so bad on thatnight that that they that we
thought we were gonna get taken,overtaken.
They lowered the they loweredthe artillery guns as low as

(01:31:24):
they could get them to shoot inthe wood line, you know.
So, and they were right over us.
I mean, the guns.
They said, get down as far asyou can go, because you know,
because they're coming, youknow.
And they're they're uh the NVAwas like I they're gutless.
I mean they were like they whatthey did to these guys, I don't

(01:31:48):
know to make 'em do that.
I we'd never, you know, try to,you know, low crawl up there.
You know you're gonna getkilled, right?
More than likely.
Right.
You know, but they did it, youknow.
So they we had uh so then wemarched off into the jungle.
We didn't march, we humped outin the jungle, and it was like

(01:32:11):
on to our usual thing.
You start getting new guys intothe field, you know, then you
know, if one guy got killed,they you just replaced it with
another guy.
Right, you know, and they triedto they tried to kind of even it
out that there's not too manynew guys in one squad, you know,

(01:32:33):
because they're kept uh cup keptuh adjusting guys.
Yeah, you know, they didn't wanttoo many new guys in one squad.
Because, you know, if you werethere, it only took you a few
months being over there, andthen you were an old guy.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:48):
Yeah.
So you learned a lot in the verymonths.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:52):
Yeah.
So yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:54):
Soon you were not the FNG anymore because they
were bringing in so many newpeople.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, it was like uhsomething else.
Yeah.
So I was gonna went there andthen, and after that I uh I was
in later on I was in charge ofthe squad, and it was probably
about I was in charge of thesquad about about so only only

(01:33:21):
six or seven a week, but thatwas enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:24):
So and then one day I we were getting resupplied, we
were getting resupplied, andthen and uh and uh officer came
up to me, he said, Dargo, get onthe plane or get on the chapter,
you're going in.
And I said, All right, I'm goingin.

(01:33:45):
And I did not know anythingabout it.
My my duty was over.
I was going back.
I I'm out, you know, I'm goingback to the rear.
Yeah.
So I never got to say, I nevergot to talk to my squad.
I just I didn't know what theywere doing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:07):
One day you were there and the next day I was
gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:10):
One day I was there and the next day I was gone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:12):
Yeah.
So so did that bother you thatyou didn't get a chance to say
goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:17):
Yeah, yeah, it did.
Yeah.
So yeah.
You know, I was back, I was backin uh about four years ago I
went out in Hamburg and uh itwas the weirdest thing.
Uh me and my buddy, who he wasalso in Vietnam.
He was a Marine.

(01:34:38):
And uh we parked in the parkinglot and my w my wife was there
also.
She came with us.
And uh all of a sudden ahelicopter came real low over
our head.
I mean, and that was really thefirst time I was ever that it

(01:35:03):
was almost like it was almostlike I was back there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:08):
And I got this feeling like I want to be back
there because I wanted to seethe guys, my buddies, because we
covered each other's ass.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:22):
You were family, yeah.
You know, we only knew eachother for months at a time.
Well, some guys you only knowfor a couple months, and then
they get wounded or shipped toanother squad, or you only kept
with your squad.
You didn't keep with nobodyelse.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:42):
Nobody else.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:43):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:44):
Yeah.
Those are the keys.
Just your squad.
So it was like a I've never hadthat feeling in my life.
I actually wanted to be back inthem.
Can you imagine that?

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:54):
And I hated it.
Yeah, but that's how it is.
That's how it is when you're ButI mean, that's we were buddies.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:04):
We weren't friends.
We're buddies.
There's a difference between afriend and a buddy.
I don't know how to describe it,but your buddy will cover your
ass.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:16):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:16):
You know?

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:17):
Well, you know what I think too is that um I know
from my deployment that youdon't always like the people.
Like you don't necessarily likethem, but they're your buddies.
Yeah.
I think that's the difference.
Like you know that if anythinghappens, you have each other.
Yeah.
Right?

(01:36:37):
So it isn't really a friendship.
It's it's it's a lot deeper thanthat.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:42):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:42):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:43):
Well, you know, I got along with everybody there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:45):
Believe it or not, yeah.
That's why I don't know.
It's like there was only oneguy, and that we only had one
little squabble.
One little squabble between, andthen we we settled it, and and
uh uh we had to dig a foxholeevery night.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:04):
Every night we had to, our squad was so somebody
could at least jump into thehole that night.
So every day you had to dig onein your position.
Well, guess what?
Guess what?
I was digging and digging, andthere was this uh the black uh
black guy, and I got along witheverybody, but this black guy,

(01:37:28):
and he he wasn't doing his part.
And I said, hey boy, get overhere and start digging.
Oh my gosh, I thought he wasgonna kill me.
I actually thought he was gonnakill me because he outweighed me
by a lot.
He was like, that's all hetalked about is football over
there.
He was a he was gonna playfootball after he got out.

(01:37:51):
And and I said, you gotta start,you gotta start pulling your
weight, you know.
And after that, we got alongfine.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:01):
We got along fine after that.
But just pull your weight, youknow.
You know, you had to do certainthings all the time.
And so, and uh, but that was a II my my squad was I had uh one
guy's his his name was uh it wascalled he was a he was a black

(01:38:22):
guy, and uh you know, to tellyou the truth, I don't even
remember his name, but he was agambler.
He loved to gamble, and wecalled him Is a money, is a
money, easy money.
And it was like he was thenicest guy, nicest guy.
He he was a little bit olderthan me.

(01:38:43):
I thought he was older than me,but we were all only, you know,
we were all older than 19, 20,21, but but uh we just uh we got
along great, you know.
Yeah.
We uh I slept right next to theguy, you know, we and covered
covered each other's ass, youknow.
We'd uh during the during therainy season, we'd set up these

(01:39:07):
things at night where you'd setup four guys who sleep together,
and we'd set up uh, it was kindof like a tent.
You put a rubber, you'd make upa couple poles and put a pole
across, and you had to cut sometrees down to do it, and uh and
uh we slept there and uh atnight every you'd uh you do your

(01:39:33):
uh do your uh guard duty, youknow, and then we always were
well you're all you were alwaystired there.
Right.
You could never get enough rest.
Yeah, you know, because you wereyou never got a good night's
sleep, you know.
So that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:39:52):
Whole 11 months of just being tired.

SPEAKER_00 (01:39:54):
Just being tired and dirty.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:39:57):
So tell so tell me, you you get back to the rear and
then you find out you're you'regoing home.

SPEAKER_00 (01:40:02):
They said I'm going home.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:03):
Yeah.
You're going home.
How'd that feel?

SPEAKER_00 (01:40:07):
Well, I was elated.
You know, I couldn't, I couldn'tuh, you know, I was like, so I'm
going, I'm checking out, andthen they go, I don't know, for
some, I don't know how they keptkept track of your stuff, but
they uh your civilian stuff waskept back in a certain spot, and

(01:40:30):
then they kind of you know theykind of got you together back
with that, you know, again.
And so we had to go, we had toput all of our stuff on a you
had to display all your stuffwhen we were going like on a
like on a table.
Yeah.

(01:40:51):
Like on a table.
And and uh at that time they putme in some uh they put me in
some cat I had khakis on, akhaki uniform with shoes and uh
just a khaki shirt.

(01:41:11):
That's a light tan and broughtmy duffel bag up there and they
and they said to me, he said, uhyou can't take those home with
you.
I said why not?
He said you can't that was myboots.
The boots I wore over there.

(01:41:32):
He said, You can't take thosehome with you.
I said, why not?
He says, You just can't.
So I took the whole duffel bagand dropped it there.
I said, you guys can have itall.
You guys can have it all.
I just wanted my boots.
Right.
My boots.

(01:41:52):
I thought that would be that'snot too uh bad of a deal, is it?
To have a pair of boots that youwore for l eleven months, a
little over eleven months.
Yeah.
You know?
So they didn't let me bring themback.
So I just dropped I dropped mywhole duffel.
I didn't I had a duffel bag, Ijust dropped it there.

(01:42:15):
I said, You guys can have itall.
They let me have my civilianstuff.
Right.
But not my duffel bag.
Oh not my boots.
Not your boots.
That's the only thing I wanted.
So I did get I was able to bringmy boonie hat on.

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:31):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (01:42:31):
That's about that was it.
That was it.
That was it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:34):
I still have my booney hat too as well.

SPEAKER_00 (01:42:36):
So so yeah, so that was uh Yeah.
Then I got on uh got on a planeat Benoit in.
It was on Capital, like uh I gota picture of that, Capital
Airlines.
And uh uh again another, youknow, uh the plane lands and a

(01:42:59):
whole group of young guys, youngguys get off and we're cheering
that that's our freedom bird,you know.
Right.
So we take off, get on theplane, and and uh we're in the
air, and I can still remember, Idon't know, I think we were, I

(01:43:21):
don't know where we were over.
I don't think we were overVietnam aga anymore, but we were
over, it was all this windingriver.
It was just winding, winding andwinding, and all of a sudden we
were out over the ocean.
And then, you know, the it's along flight.
I came back through uh Alaska.

(01:43:43):
Oh.
Yeah, I came back throughAlaska, stopped in uh Anchorage,
and then from Anchorage I wentto Fort Dix, New Jersey, and uh
uh from there uh I uh again weuh they processed us uh and they

(01:44:08):
put me in a I just had khakis onthere.
They put me in a dress uniform.
I didn't have a dress uniform.
So they put me in a brand newsuit, brand new pants, brand new
shoes, brand new everything wasbrand new, brand new, brand new
coat, everything was brand new.
Put my stripes on, everything,and uh and uh they marched us

(01:44:38):
over to the mess hall.
They marched us over to the messhall, and they gave us a steak
dinner.
So that was my last I had asteak dinner for my life.
Like I said, uh the army alwaysmakes sure you're fed.

SPEAKER_03 (01:44:52):
So it's interesting the first meal you had was
underneath the table, and thesecond meal or the last meal you
had was at the table and it wasa steak dinner.

SPEAKER_00 (01:45:00):
And in between that was cans of of sea rations.

SPEAKER_03 (01:45:03):
That's right, all the good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:45:05):
Cans of sea rations.
Yeah, pork and beans andwhatever.
Yeah.
So did you just they give us abriefing.
They gave us a briefing.
Uh it was all army, and theysaid, when you you have to wear

(01:45:26):
your uniform to get on a flight,get a military flight.
So he says, as soon as you hityour destination, airport, to
take your uniform off and changeit into some civilian clothes.
And they said, because peopleare spitting on uh the GIs
coming back home.

(01:45:47):
And uh I didn't do what theytold me to do.
I was out of the service.
So I was I was kind of proud.
I served my country.
I didn't I did what they asked.
I didn't want to go.
I was wasn't a fighter.
I was I never was in a fight inmy life.

(01:46:07):
I didn't I was I hunted andstuff like that, but I didn't I
wasn't a physical in thephysical fighting or nothing
like that.
So I kept my uniform on and anduh my mom and dad picked me up
at the airport and uh firstthing I did is uh we went and

(01:46:30):
visited my uh my favorite auntand uncle and they're they were
glad to see me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:46:38):
I got letters from them all the time, so so uh uh
it was uh and then when I gothome and it's like they they
your uh your employer somehowthe your employer and uh the
army kept in track with eachother.

(01:47:02):
So I worked at Delta uh thatwhole time or um before then and
uh they were were we r requiredto br have my job.
Yeah.
So uh so the station managercalls me up.
He says, Dave, you coming backin to work?

(01:47:24):
I said, I said, hey, Carl, Isays, his name was Carl
Schroeder, and uh I said, Carl,I got 90 days to report back to
work, and I'll see you on my90th day.
I said, I'm taking the vacation.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:40):
You need to get some sleep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:42):
Yeah, so yeah, so well I gotta ask you a question
though, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:46):
Because you guys I it it it must be uh a soldier
thing, but you guys are talkingabout the car you were gonna get
when you got back.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:52):
Oh.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:53):
So what did you get?

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:54):
What I got, I got when I was over there for some I
don't know how we got thatanyway.
We got like a a booklet, or itwas like a big piece of paper,
uh-huh, actually, of all the thecars and the car prices, even.
Yeah.
What the car prices was.
So anyway, I was uh my dad wasalways in the General Motors

(01:48:20):
products.
Uh-huh.
And so uh I I uh selected uh myfelieve it or not, after all
these years, even being in theservice and stuff, I like green.
I like dark green.
So I bought a dark green 1970Monte Carlo.
Oh yeah.
So that's the biggest hood onthat baby uh uh ever.

(01:48:45):
It was like a football field.
I kept I kept that thing for 11years.
Kept that thing for 11 years.
Yeah.
It was like what a nice car thatwas.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:56):
Oh yeah.
So yeah, so you went back toyou, so you went back to Delta
then after 90 days?

SPEAKER_00 (01:49:02):
90 days, and I reported back to work.
And they wouldn't give me my oldjob back.
Right.
I got hired back, but then I gotI was working at Air Freight at
the time when I went in.
First first first I worked onthe ramp, and then they
transferred me to Air Freight,and and then I wanted that job

(01:49:29):
back, and they said, well,there's no openings there, but
you can work on the ramp.
Well, that's where I originallystarted off.
Right.
But it was like it was like whenI got back to work, it was like
uh, I don't know, it was just Icouldn't I couldn't uh uh like I

(01:49:50):
could function and stuff likethat, but everything was
everything was different.
People ask you stupid questions,right?
You know, like how many guys didyou kill?
And and it was like, yeah.
And then after a while, well Ididn't answer them, but after we
just I just completely went withmy mouth, I didn't say a word

(01:50:15):
about Vietnam.
I didn't say a thing.
And uh it was it took a littlewhile, took a little while, and
uh I met an met a new guy atwork and me and him became
buddies.
And uh we were uh uh I wasalways over at his house.

(01:50:40):
We'd we worked the midnightshift a lot, and we go out to
the bar right from the morning.
Or we worked afternoon shift,we'd go to the bar.
So I did a lot of bar time.
Yeah.
A lot of bar time and then uh wewe were really really good
friends, buddies, and uh uh Iwas always over his house.

(01:51:07):
And uh and he had a swimmingpool.
And uh I really wasn't into youknow, I wasn't really into uh I
had friends, I talked to girlsand stuff like that, but I
wasn't like I wasn't like likeso anyway he asked me one day,

(01:51:28):
he says uh the girl across thestreet would like to go out with
you.
You know?
I said, you mean you meanJackie?
And uh he said, yeah.
He said, you want to go out on adouble date together?

(01:51:50):
Well go out on a double datebecause we're friends.
We were always at I was t I'dtalk to her, but I said, I
didn't know she was interestedin me.
So we we went on a double date.
We went on a double date.
We went to Canada.
We went to Canada and uh uh wehad we had dinner in Canada, we

(01:52:12):
drove around had dinner.
So anyway, Mickey's date, I didnot know her at the time, is now
the girl that I'm married to,Marjorie.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:26):
Whoa, isn't that funny how things work out?

SPEAKER_00 (01:52:29):
He was just friends with her, though.
He was just, yeah, there were weweren't, they weren't like, you
know, you weren't goingtogether.
Right.
It was just a date.
Yeah.
It was a date.
So I went out with Jackie for awhile.
I went out with her for a while,and uh things didn't work out,
you know.
I liked her and she liked me,but it wasn't uh it wasn't, you

(01:52:52):
know, I was wasn't with anybody.
Yeah.
So then I got my wife, Margiewas working at Delta also.
She's one of the teletype girls,and I got to know her, and I
finally got up my nerve to askher to go out.
So, so we started going out, anduh here it is uh uh 51 years

(01:53:16):
later and we're we're uh happilymarried.

SPEAKER_03 (01:53:18):
51 years.
That's a that's awesome, that'sincredible.
Yeah, good for you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:53:23):
Yeah, so that's nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:53:25):
So did you did you stay at Delta then?

SPEAKER_00 (01:53:28):
I worked at Delta for 35 years.
Okay.
And then uh in 1995, I lost myjob here in Detroit.
My job was was uh contractedout.
So uh they gave me an option.
Either go to Atlanta and work orgo to Cincinnati and work.

(01:53:52):
So I chose Cincinnati becausethat was closer.
Yeah.
So I commuted for six years.
So I commuted from Cincinnati toback home here for six years.
Wow.
So that was rough.
It's a lot of driving.
Very rough.
One of the roughest times of mylife.
Yeah.
That was right when my daughterswere teenagers, so it was like

(01:54:15):
uh uh, you know, I didn't wantthem to change schools, and I
didn't want to we liked it here.
And I thought something mightwork out.
I thought, well, something'llwork out, we'll get our jobs
back.
And well, we never did get ourjobs back.

(01:54:38):
Yeah.
Unless if you stayed with thecompany for for so when 9-11
came, when 9-11 came, Delta gotrid of a lot of people.
Yeah.
So so I would just fell underthe guidelines to be able to
retire.
So so so I retired.

SPEAKER_03 (01:54:59):
2001 then.

SPEAKER_00 (01:55:00):
2001 I retired.
And then my wife was stillworking, she was working at
Eastern University.
Uh-huh.
So uh uh I looked in the paperone day and uh uh found the ad
in the paper looking for uhsomebody to take care of the
yard.

(01:55:20):
So uh so I answered uh answereduh well I went over to see the
people and they were in AnnArbor, Michigan.
And uh uh I worked I wound upworking for them for 19 years.
And then along the way I pickedup, I actually ran like my

(01:55:42):
little lawn service by myself.
Uh-huh.
I did I did everything fromcutting grass to cutting shrubs
to cleaning out gutters to to itwas f all physical work to
painting, to uh to uh uh rippingripping fences out, and I did

(01:56:03):
all that.
Somebody asked me to dosomething, I'd tell them, yeah,
I can do it.
And uh uh my wife was gettingmad at me for a while because I
was getting too many customers.
Right.
So then I I worked I did thatfor 19 years.
I thought that was enough.
So 35 at Delta, 19, betweenDelta and the service, and uh

(01:56:25):
that was enough.

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:26):
So what right around 2020 you finally I finally quit.
Retired?

SPEAKER_00 (01:56:32):
I finally retired, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:34):
So you have how many children?

SPEAKER_00 (01:56:35):
I've got two daughters, uh huh.
Two daughters and uh fourgrandchildren.
Yeah uh two of each.

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:42):
What do your daughters do?

SPEAKER_00 (01:56:43):
My daughters was uh uh they both went to college at
Eastern, graduated from Eastern.
Uh-huh.
And my uh uh my one daughter wasin the uh uh HR department, and
she got a job at uh quickenloans.

(01:57:05):
Okay my other daughter, she gota uh uh job in social social.
She she thought she was gonnasave the world, and uh uh she
found out after she graduatedthat that it wasn't for her she
gave it a try anyway.
She she gave it a try.

(01:57:26):
And then uh she was very good atwriting.

SPEAKER_01 (01:57:29):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57:30):
Very good at at at she was a real reader and she
knew how to now she's uh workingat a place where she something
somebody turns something in andshe rewrites it for them the
proper way.
Okay.

(01:57:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she's very good at that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:55):
Well, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57:55):
That was her skill.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:57):
Well, and you the you have four grandchildren, you
were saying two boys and twogirls.
Two boys and two girls.
Yeah, how's that?
You enjoying that?

SPEAKER_00 (01:58:03):
Yeah, that's it's yeah, it's like uh as uh well I
took care of my at that time Iwas like when my that was like
let's see, that was like uh myyoungest daughter, Christy, she
had her first baby, and that wasuh a girl, and they named her

(01:58:26):
Logan, and she was working,husband worked, so and at the
time I was doing, I was stillhow I did all this stuff, I
don't know how I did it, butthey needed a babysitter, you
know.
So grandpa was the babysitterfor basically five years, my

(01:58:49):
daughter my granddaughter.
I I it was like uh it's quite anexperience, you know.
Like like, you know, uh had togo there and pick Logan up and
bring her back over here andthen take care of her all day.
And then and uh but uh I did itfor five years.
Uh that was then she went toschool.

(01:59:11):
Right.
Thankfully.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59:12):
Right.
They'll wear you out, that's forsure.
That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (01:59:15):
So for for a grandparent to do that, I
thought uh I was pretty proud ofmyself.
Yeah.
And uh my daughter was verypicky.
She had I had to write downeverything that I did.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59:26):
Well, yes.
You know that's how it works.

SPEAKER_00 (01:59:28):
The first one is like, you know, you you gotta uh
if the bottle falls on thefloor, you gotta put a new
nipple on it or what after awhile you just take a ketchup
bottle and give it to them.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59:40):
Oh yeah, yeah.
After a while they're they couldbe chewing on a shoe and you
don't care, right?
Because they're gonna be okay.
It's totally different.
It is.
It is.
And so you uh still keep incontact with some of your
buddies, though, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:59:55):
What's that?
You still keep in contact withsome of the people.
Well, just one.
Just one.
Just one.
Okay.
Just one.
Yep.
So and I had one guy that hecalled me years ago and uh Bruce
Hood.
He was the ammo carrier forKendall, the guy that was killed

(02:00:15):
in Vietnam.
Yeah.
And he called me up.
He says, he said, you know,we're we're in a book.
Our our our the first calf is aguy wrote a book.
It's called The Cat from Away.
You ever hear of that book?
I have not.
And it's called, it's a verythick book, it's about that

(02:00:37):
thick.
Uh-huh.
And it was reporters from ABC,and they were following us at in
uh Vietnam, and they werefollowing our company, and
following a couple companies.
We were a Bravo company, andthey're they're especially
following Charlie Company, uh,because there was a uh a

(02:01:03):
dispute.
Not a dispute.
Uh yeah, well, it was uh theguys in the company w refused to
march down a road.
They said, we're not marchingdown that road.
We're not going down that road.
Just walking down the road,we're not walking down.
They refused the officers'orders.

(02:01:26):
And probably they didn't.
They, you know, because youknow, some of the officers there
were were like were basicallygung ho.
They didn't care how many guysgot killed.
You know?
So that's just the way it is,you know.
They refused.
So they were following us.
So uh the the the the day thatour uh fire base was attacked uh

(02:01:55):
they were they they flew themguys in.
He got on the helicopter, heflew right in during the middle
of the fight, this reporter did.

SPEAKER_01 (02:02:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:02:05):
So he got he got it's all marked he he wrote
everything down in a book aboutthis, and I got everything
underlined what he said and wwhat position I was in, you
know.
So it's uh it was kind of uhkind of neat in a way.

SPEAKER_03 (02:02:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Great to have that piece ofhistory recorded.
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (02:02:27):
Yeah.
Oh well.
I had my picture taken overthere a number of times by by
photographers.
And uh one one time I got off achopper and uh he he kind of
came up to me, he said, Can Itake your picture?
He says, I says, Well, what doyou want to take my picture for?

(02:02:51):
He says, Because you look theworst.
Thanks a lot.
You look the worst.
So I don't know what he meant bythat.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03:01):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (02:03:02):
Yeah, you look the worst.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03:03):
You're in somebody's photo album now, and he's like,
that was the worst-looking guythat came off that helicopter.
You look the worst.
That's funny.
Yeah.
Oh well, we've talked about alot of stuff over the last we've
been talking for two hours now,if you can remember that.
Yes.
Oh, yes.
So um, you know, as we kind ofstart to wrap up our
conversation, okay.
Um, is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you

(02:03:25):
wanted to still talk about?
Is there anything that wehaven't covered?

SPEAKER_00 (02:03:30):
Not that I can think of, really.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03:32):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (02:03:33):
Well, you know, there's always stuff that comes,
you know, I think of stuff, butyou know, uh, I think I think I
think I did a pretty good job.
I mean, covering different uhstuff that I remembered.
I know there was a lot more thatthere's a lot more than that
because, you know, but but Ijust kind of like there's

(02:03:54):
certain things you reallyremember.
I mean, you'll never not forget.
Never.
I'll never till the till the daythey put me on the ground, I'll
I'll I'll remember it.
Hopefully, yes.
If I don't get Alzheimer's.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (02:04:10):
Well, and we have this recording to capture that
too for you.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04:13):
So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (02:04:14):
Yeah.
So the the only other question Ihave for you, Dave, is um, you
know, for someone listening tothis years from now or even a
hundred years from now, like wetalked about earlier, um, what
message would you like to leavefor people?

SPEAKER_00 (02:04:28):
Oh, well, all I I all I can say is that that when
I when I got back out of theservice, I failed, I wouldn't, I
would not talk about it for 50years.
It was 50 years before I startedto talk about it.
I had bad dreams about it.

(02:04:49):
My I'd wake my wife up at night,sit up in bed.
It's the same dream over andover again.
And I just it was just like Ijust want to remember that, you
know, I didn't want to go towar, but I did everything that I

(02:05:10):
was asked to do.
And I'm pretty damn proud of it.
And I just wish um now after f Ijust started wearing like
military hats now when I go outinto any event or maybe into the
store.
And it's when I first got backyou know, people didn't want to

(02:05:36):
talk to me.
Or if they did, they asked thewrong questions and uh uh now
that I'm finally t talking aboutthings that that and I'm wearing
some a military hat or a firstcalve hat or whatever, veteran's

(02:05:59):
hat or maybe a shirt that thepeople will actually walk up to
you and say, Thank you for yourservice.
And I said I'm I tell them I'mproud to serve my country.
I did everything I asked, youknow, and I'm proud of it.

SPEAKER_03 (02:06:15):
So well and welcome home.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06:18):
Welcome home.

SPEAKER_03 (02:06:19):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sharing yourmorning with me, David.
I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06:23):
Mm-hmm.
And thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_03 (02:06:26):
You're welcome.

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