November 14, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the structure you craved as a kid became the engine of your entire life? Michelle Boulter takes us from dirt roads in Otsego, Michigan to ROTC drills, blistering Louisville barracks, and the jolt of basic training that taught her to love marksmanship and laugh at a tragically soft grenade throw. Commissioned in 1996 and moved into the Signal Corps, she pushed through a back injury and an early exit, then rebuilt her purpose in law—where research, process, and calm under pressure look a lot like field discipline without the ruck.
We talk about the hard pivot points: the campus climate that felt wary of uniforms, the surgery that changed a plan, the 9/11 moment that steered her away from active duty while she was pregnant, and the marriage that started with a missed call, a snowy driveway, and a broken bench. Michelle’s story keeps circling back to one theme: choose your own path, even when family hesitates. Her kids embody that idea—one daughter commissioned in the Guard’s Signal branch, another thriving as a vet tech, a third serving as a Navy corpsman—while the whole family trades acronyms across branches like different dialects of the same service language.
If you care about veteran stories, women in the military, National Guard life, career pivots, and how discipline translates from formation runs to legal research, this conversation hits home. We dig into small-town beginnings, ROTC culture, basic training memories, the realities of Signal school, motherhood during turbulent times, and what it means to plan the next chapter with retirement on the horizon, a new golf swing, and a four-month-old grandson who lights up every room.
Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves authentic veteran journeys, and leave a review to tell us: what hard choice shaped your path?
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
Today is Thursday, November 13th, 2025.
We're talking with MichelleBolter, who served in the Army
National Guard.
So good afternoon.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Good afternoon.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
Thanks for coming by after work.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Anytime.
SPEAKER_02 (01:12):
All right.
We're going to get right intoit.
When and where are you were youborn?
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
I was born August 31st, 1974, in Kalamzu,
Michigan.
SPEAKER_02 (01:21):
Wow, 1974.
I was nine years old.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Usually I'm the one that's going, oh, well, I was
way old at that stage.
SPEAKER_02 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah.
I I you know, I hate seeing theyou can drink if you were born
by this date.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Awful.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't even look at thatanymore.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
You don't even check your ID anymore.
It's like, could you just take alook at it?
Make me feel better.
SPEAKER_02 (01:43):
Right.
So did you grow up in Kalamazoo?
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I did.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
So not I well, I was born in Kalamazoo, and then my
dad got a job up in um Otsego,Michigan, which is about 30
minutes from there.
And we ended up moving up there,and I for the most part grew up
in Otsego.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Okay.
What was it like growing up inOtsego?
SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
Um, it's a very small town.
Everybody knows everything abouteverybody.
Um, but it was, I mean, a lot offreedom.
Um, we lived out in thetownship, so if you wanted to go
anywhere, you had to bike it orfoot it.
Um, main shopping was down inKelm Zoo, so if you couldn't
drive, you weren't gonna getthere.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Um, a lot of softball, a lot of sports, a lot
of running.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Sounds like you're kind of athletic.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
So tell me about your family.
How many brothers and sistersdid you have?
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
So I grew up with four sisters, they're all older,
and I make sure I make that veryclear, they're all older.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So my oldest sister, they range from being about 17
years older than me versus threeyears.
SPEAKER_02 (02:43):
Oh, wow, that's quite a span.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
It was a big span.
So my first three sisters areabout four years apart.
And then there's a 10-year gap,and then there's my fourth
sister, and then there's about athree-year gap between me and
her.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
Okay.
So you were the baby.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
I'm the baby.
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Is it all true?
All that stuff they say aboutthe baby.
Like your parents were just wornout.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
A little bit.
We got away with a lot more thanour older sisters did for sure,
because they grew up in the 70s.
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
Oh, good.
That's nice.
So uh so tell me about what wasit like having all those all
those women in the house?
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Um, well, not all of us were in the house at the same
time.
So not as bad as what you wouldthink, but um, I think my oldest
sister, because I was four whenwe moved into the house and at
Seagout.
And at that time, I think shehad actually moved to Texas.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Um, so it would have been the other two sisters.
My second sister was probablythere just for a brief amount of
time because she got marriedwhen I was five to her first
husband.
And then my third sister wasstill in high school.
My fourth sister was inelementary like me.
Um, there was a lot of fightingfor the bathroom, fighting for
clothes, fighting over clothes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
Um were there a lot of hammy downs?
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Oh, that's all I got.
And we were all shaped verydifferently, which didn't really
help the clothes fittingcorrectly.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
I'm the shortest person in my family by about two
inches.
And then my other sister, theone that's closest to me, is
about four inches taller thanme.
So I always got her hammy downs.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
I had to roll and peg my pants.
SPEAKER_02 (04:25):
At least it was popular then, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
It was very popular then.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yeah, so it worked out.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
But she had a tiny waist and I was built like
SpongeBob.
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
It didn't really fit well.
I I wore men's pants betterbecause they were straight.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Well, that makes sense, I guess, if you were
built like SpongeBob.
Yep.
Well, so what did your what sowhat did your parents do?
What did your dad do that hemoved to Otsego for work?
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
So my dad's originally from Illinois, Cook
County, and he ended upenlisting in the army.
Um, he lied about his age to getinto the army because he had a
very bad home life.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
And the army, he was in it for about two years, and I
didn't find this out until youhe had passed.
Um, and then after he got outfrom his two-year contract
there, he um enlisted in theNavy, and that's where he did
the longest stunt was in theNavy.
So then he, when he was in a Ithink about 20, he was over in
California, um, Laguna Beach,and that's where he met my
(05:25):
mother.
And from there he moved back toChicago and started working, I
think, in painting and otherentrepreneurial stuff.
But then he went to school, gotan I think an externship or an
internship, um, working as anengineer with somebody down in
Illinois, and they had a placeup in Otsego, which is Parker
(05:48):
Hannifin.
So we moved to Michigan, or theymoved to Michigan.
I was born in Michigan.
Yeah, and then um he retired outof there 40 years later.
SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
Really?
Okay.
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
My mom was a stay-at-home mom.
She did odd jobs every once in awhile, so she had to put up with
us 99% of the time.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
I I think with all those kids, she probably didn't
have time to work.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
She didn't.
She was a chauffeur not only ofme and my sisters, but then by
the time we were old enough, meand my fourth sister, um, my
nephews and my nieces startedcoming along, and they're a
little bit younger than me.
My nephew, my oldest nephew'sonly four years younger than me.
Um so they kind of got foldedinto the mix.
(06:33):
So she was a running daycarebetween her kids and her
grandkids until she just aboutpassed.
SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
So you you were your nephews are like almost my age.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I take it back.
My my oldest nephew's six yearsyounger than me.
Okay.
He's six years.
So, and then after him, my thirdnephew is eight years, and then
my niece is ten, my other nephewwas ten, and then there was a
twelve, and then obviously therewas the big gap.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
And then my fourth sister, her kids, and my kids
are fairly close in age.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
Oh, that's very cool.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
But I just found out I'm gonna be a great great aunt.
So my great niece is actuallydue in July.
SPEAKER_02 (07:12):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Oh we got we got a lot of kids in our family.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Does that make you feel old to be a great great
aunt?
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
At 51, yeah.
I don't feel like I should betoo great.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Right.
Maybe a great, maybe not, whoknows?
SPEAKER_00 (07:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Yeah.
Well, talk to me about school.
Like, what was that like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
So high school was sports.
I mean, I did my homework, I wasgood students.
I didn't really have to workhard for it.
And so by the time I got readyto graduate, um, I was looking
at going to one of the militaryacademies.
Um I was looking at one over inVermont.
I got accepted there, gotaccepted to northern Michigan,
(07:52):
and I got accepted to Western.
And at the time when I went toWestern, it was more of like a
financial thing.
And I had scholarshipopportunities there, so I took
up the scholarship opportunitiesand ended up at Western.
SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
Now, were those sports-related scholarships
then?
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Started off with a cross-country intertrack
scholarship.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Um, and then when I got in there, I was still
working a couple jobs just sothat my parents didn't have to
flip the bill.
They did help.
Um, but uh what was it?
My brother-in-law was in thearmy, and my sister had just
recently married him.
And I can't believe I'm actuallygonna say this because he's
likely gonna hear this.
(08:32):
Like I idolized him.
I mean, he was the one brotherthat I had that I was probably
felt like a brother at the time,and acted like a brother.
My other brother-in-laws weregreat, but he was close to my
age, very inspirational, and heended up uh signing up for the
army and got deployed duringDesert Storm.
So it was a very emotional time.
SPEAKER_01 (08:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Um, watching my sister, kind of not knowing
what's going on with him, what'sgoing on with the world.
And when they decided that theywere gonna get married, I was
talking with him and I'm like,this is what I want to do.
This is what I want to do.
And my mom wasn't necessarilyfor it and tried talking me out
of it.
It wasn't a good idea.
(09:15):
You know, you're a girl, you'renot gonna be able to do much.
And after about a year ofcollege, I ended up going over
and just walking over to thebattalion um on campus and ended
up talking to a guy, his namewas Captain Reisingal at the
time.
Great guy.
And he's like, worst thing youcan do is just sign up for the
(09:35):
course, and if you don't likeit, you don't have to commit to
it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Right.
So I'm like, why not give it ashot?
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
Nothing to lose, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Nothing.
And I'm like, and I can run, getget a little more of that in.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Um, so you're one of those.
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
I was one of those.
I'm not so much as I would liketo be one of those again, but
it's not in my cards right now.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
Right, right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
But yes, I was addicted to running.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
You're one of the very few people I've talked to
that talked about their militarytime military time and said I
loved running.
Yeah, I could run more if I didthis.
Yes.
Said no one ever, except you.
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
I didn't like the pull-ups or the push-ups because
I have noodles for arms, but Icould definitely kill it in the
run.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
Yeah, run in circles around the guys, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
So um, when I signed up for the first semester, I'm
like, yep, this is it.
This is it.
And I didn't tell my parentsthat I signed up for the second
semester, and I just did it.
And at that point in time, I'mlike, all right, I'm gonna go to
basic, I'm gonna enlist, I'mgonna do, you know, the dual
fold.
And I gave my parents about twoweeks to adjust to it.
(10:45):
And my dad just kind of lookedat me, he goes, I'm not shocked.
He goes, Good luck.
And then my mom cried, and sheshe thought I was enlisting and
going away permanently.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
And I'm like, no, I'm enlisting National Guard,
I'm doing the simultaneous kindof program like they have now,
just a little different then.
And I'm like, I'm gonna still goto school, but I'll be doing
both, right?
And she's like, but you can goaway, you can be shipped off.
And I'm like, likelihood is notright now, right?
Um, and then from graduationthere it was much easier on her.
(11:24):
She didn't seem to be botheredby it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
So talk to me about basic training then.
So you you did um basic traininglike in between.
unknown (11:32):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
I had to do it between in the summer semester.
So um Western finishes roughlythe end of April, the first part
of May, I was one of the firstclasses to go.
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
So um and where'd you go?
I went to Louisville.
SPEAKER_02 (11:47):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Really?
Okay.
So so walk me through that.
What was it like when you gotthere?
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Uh hot.
Very, very hot.
And then when I realized that umto start off, they wanted us to
wear our blouse sleeves down.
I'm like, this is gonna suck.
The barracks were not air airconditioned at all.
And um, I'm like, what did I getmyself into?
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
Like, do I really want to do this?
And um from there, it was justyour basic training, right?
Yeah.
And after week seven, I'm like,okay, this isn't so bad.
I can continue to do this.
And then with you know, youstart getting into the fun
stuff, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Um and then it's over.
And then I had to turn aroundand come back to school.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
So before we turn that page or leave that chapter,
um, like what sticks out in yourmind most about basic training?
Like when you think about ittoday, you know, what's the look
like what's one thing that youreally remember about that?
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
Um I really, really enjoyed shooting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
That was one of my my favorite things.
I mean, my dad had a shotgun, weweren't allowed to touch it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Um, so I really hadn't been exposed to guns or
any kind of weaponry really umup until that point.
So being able to shoot a wholebunch of different things and
then being semi-proficient, I'mnot like my husband by any
means, but um, I really enjoyedthat.
And when I came back the nextsemester, I actually joined our
rifle team at Western.
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
Which was a little bit of a shock because we were
using the old wooden rifles thatweighed about 20, 30 pounds.
And I'm like, well, this isn'twhat I thought I was getting
into.
But we'll we'll keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt.
Did you get to throw the handgrenade and basic training and
all that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Yeah, and I didn't do so hot with that because like
I said, I got noodles and Ithrew it and I'm like, man, I
really did good.
And all I remember is my drillsergeant slamming me to the
ground, and he goes, You you youdidn't throw it very hard.
He goes, You want to try again?
I'm like, No, not really.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
As long as that was a pass, you're good, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
I passed, yeah, but it wasn't with flying colors.
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
So you get back to school.
Was that so coming back frombasic training, was that a bit
of an adjustment for you to beback at school?
Or did you just like assimilateright back in?
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
It um it was I I like regiment, and I think
that's one reason that I likethe idea of the military.
I like regiment, I likemethodical, I like rules.
Yeah, I mean, it's what I dotoday.
Right.
Um and not necessarily havingthat structure was a little
(14:24):
off-putting.
Um, but I think because we diddo um PT every single morning,
and we did battalion everysingle night.
Um, it wasn't as bad, but Ithink the the the culture of the
school was not necessarily atthe time pro-military.
(14:49):
Um, nothing like the environmentthat we have today.
Um, but you could definitelyfeel it right in little some
cases, depending on where youwere at, what you were doing,
and if you had anything militaryon, you you feel a little
ostracized.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
But um coming back wasn't wasn't bad.
I gotta sleep in a little bitmore.
SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Oh, that's true.
So that was nice.
Didn't get yelled at quite asmuch.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Not as much.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
Not that stuff.
Now, were you assigned to a unitafter this?
SPEAKER_00 (15:16):
Um, not during that time, because at that time you
would enlist, but all the stuffthat you had to do for ROTC, you
still had to do all your drills,and we did all of our drills
over at um Fort Custer at thetime.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
Um, and then in the summer, you would, if you
weren't doing basic or waitingto go to advanced camp between
your junior and your senioryear, um, you could do go to all
these schools.
Um you still had to do your twoweeks, but then you still had
all these schools that werepotentially options for you.
Sometimes if you were reallygood, you got into two schools.
(15:48):
I got into one um each summer.
So that was that was about it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Oh, okay.
Well, because I know uh when Iwas in the National Guard, we
had actually had cadets fromWestern that would come drill
with us or come up to our ourtwo-week summer camp, as we like
to call it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Yeah.
Nope, we didn't we didn't dothose because I chose to go to
the schools.
If you went to the schools, youdidn't have to necessarily do it
unless the stars aligned and youcould, and you could go do the
the two, but it wasn'tnecessarily required.
SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
Okay.
You made the right choice.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Schools were fun.
Yeah, yeah, you got the I LoveMe patches as we went.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
Yeah, we weren't really nice to the cadets very
often.
We every once in a while you getlike a shining star, and they
were great, but most of the timewe just gave them a lot of crap.
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
So yeah, you made the right choice there.
So you uh you make it throughWestern, you get your bachelor
what'd you get your bachelor'sdegree?
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
My bachelor's in political science, international
relations.
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Okay.
And then what happens?
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
So got my commission in 96.
Okay, and got commissionedoriginally as adjunct, um,
adjutant general, sorry.
And trying to find a unit at thetime that had a space for me.
(17:38):
There really wasn't, so then Iswitched to Signal Corps.
And then um I ended up gettingstationed with the 63rd Troop
Command down in Jackson, which Idon't think was there much
longer after I got out.
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
So um why I was there was kind of like a jack of
all trades.
They just put you where theyneeded you and um waited to go
to A school.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Okay.
And uh you went off to A school?
Yep.
And what did you learn there?
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
That Signal Core was not my forte.
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Not your cup of tea.
SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
Communications technology.
I mean, I can do okay withOutlook and Teams and Copilot
nowadays, but that was a wholedifferent form of technology.
Like looking at your switchboardand all this stuff, I was like,
I'm in over my head.
SPEAKER_02 (18:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
But I love the people that I was there with.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Well, that's good.
So you made it through schoolthough, I'm assuming.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
Okay.
And what was so what was itlike?
What was uh what was kind oflike a typical day with the your
with your unit then?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
Um, it was just, I mean, it was a lot of logistics.
I never went anywhere.
My this is where my time gotreally short because I got my
commission, went to school, um,and I was out in about 18
months.
So I only had, you know, roughly17 drills.
Um, and they didn't really havea whole lot of structure around
(18:56):
my job in the the command at thetime.
So I was I felt like I was moreof a plug and play.
Where where can we put you tofill your your role?
But a lot of it was morelogistics, just moving stuff,
tracking stuff, reporting stuff,auditing stuff.
That was it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
Yeah.
So you kind of do some of thattoday, right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
I do a lot of that today.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Yeah, we'll get there.
I promise.
So you so your enlistment is upthen after 18 months, roughly?
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
Well, it wasn't.
Um, unfortunately, it was cutshort, not to my choice.
Um, I when I went to um advancedschool for the in the summer
between my junior and my senioryear, one of the Audi Murphy
courses, right?
Um, I injured my back.
And about seven months later, Iended up having surgery on it.
(19:48):
And I passed the PT test, but Icontinue to have some
aggravating problems.
So I wasn't necessarilymedically discharged because my
unit was also more than 90 milesaway from where I was at.
And they're like, okay, well,before we put you up for review,
why don't we take this out?
And then if you can pass and youget medically cleared, then you
(20:09):
can always come back.
And after that, it turned intomy husband got a different job.
We ended up moving, um, ended uphaving kids, and here I am.
SPEAKER_02 (20:19):
Yeah.
So did you get married while youwere still in the guard?
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
I got married when yes, I did.
I'm trying to remember.
Okay, I got my commission in 96,me and my husband got married in
97.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
Okay.
All right.
So married kind of young.
SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
Very young.
I was uh 22, he was 23.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
And then our first daughter was born when I was 24.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Okay.
How'd you meet?
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Um, I've known him all my life.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
We went to school together.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Were you were you high school sweethearts?
SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
No.
Oh.
That's the funny part.
SPEAKER_02 (20:51):
Yeah, well, talk me through this.
I want to hear this story.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
So I'll start you off in first grade, um, getting
small school right.
Right.
And I see a guy who I was in myclass, happened to be his twin
brother.
And I see him go into thebathroom, and then next thing
you know, I see somebody comingout the the other door, which
was a different classroom, andit's the same kid.
And I didn't know what twinswere.
(21:16):
We didn't have them.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
And so I remember asking my teacher, and she's
like, Well, they're a set oftwins, they're both brothers,
and um, she explained it.
So then I had a little bit of anobsession because they were both
cute.
And now this is on the code.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
I'm learning I'm learning so much about you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
Well, the worst thing was is I actually had a
crush in kindergarten in firstgrade on their dad.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
And it was told at a wedding to my father-in-law who
just blushed and walked away.
And I'm like, you guys aremiserable.
But we ended up being reallygood friends.
We all did the same sports, meand um my husband and my
brother-in-law.
And um, in high school, we alldid cross country.
We did track.
I tried swimming.
I don't swim very well, I think.
(22:02):
So um I ended up doingvolleyball in other sports, um,
but cross country and track weremy main thing.
And they were like the twobrothers I never wanted.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
And in middle school, it was like this
hovering, who are you talkingto?
What are you doing?
Interrupting.
I'm like, I'm talking to a boy,leave me alone.
I don't need you here.
Um, and they were both datingother people.
I mean, and he actually lives acountry block away from his
family from where my family grewup.
So we had this big space inbetween our house that sometimes
(22:34):
it was an acorn war or duct tapewar in between.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
Um, so fast forward, he ships off, he goes into the
army, he ends up gettingstationed down in Hawaii, and I
go to I go to college.
And it was the first semester ofmy senior year.
Yeah, it had to be.
Um, and I have my glasses off,like I do right now, because um
(23:03):
I was doing something and Ineeded to see close, but I
recognized the voice across thethe drill hall.
I'm like, that sounds reallyfamiliar.
It can't be.
So I'm trying to find myglasses, put it on.
And we had this one guy that wasobsessed with the Ranger tab.
And so he was over there talkinghim up, and I'm like, oh my God,
I know you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
And he comes in, he goes, What are you doing here?
So we talked, and he was at thetime looking to do like the
green to gold scholarship, getout of active duty and last and
go to college and become anofficer.
And so we talked and connected alittle bit, but he wasn't
officially out at that time.
And he goes, Well, be out inDecember.
He goes, Why don't you swing byand say hi?
(23:46):
And I tried calling him likeonce or twice.
He didn't pick up.
And I make sure I reminded himhim that of every chance I get.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Oh, yes, he was screening his calls.
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Oh, he was.
And um, I was dropping a friendoff over in Fenville, which went
right past his house atChristmas time.
And I'm like, you know what?
You're home.
You never called me back.
So I whip into his driveway.
It was kind of like alast-minute thing.
I ended up knocking over and notknocking, running over one of
his mom's benches because it wascovered in snow.
(24:16):
So never lived that one down.
Um, and from there we ended upstarted we started dating, and
here we are.
SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
Do you think it was just because he was scared?
SPEAKER_00 (24:27):
Probably was.
He should be.
He still is.
SPEAKER_02 (24:30):
Gotta keep him on their toes, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
Yes.
He never knows what he's gonnaget with me.
SPEAKER_02 (24:36):
Yeah.
Like a box of chocolates, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
I always say Rubik's Cube, butsame thing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Or jelly beans.
Yeah.
It could be a sweet flavor, itcould be a real sour flavor the
next day.
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
Well, good for him.
So so you uh you forced your wayinto his house and ruined a
bench of his mom's and and therest is history.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
I made him date me.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
Yeah.
How'd that work out?
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Uh we are sitting at 28 years going on 29.
SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
Oh, congratulations.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
So, yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
That's that's nice.
I will tell you, I've I'vetalked to some people, World War
II vets married like 75 years.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
That blows my mind.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
That's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
But you guys are on your way there, so that's good.
SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
We are.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
Yeah.
So you uh so you're you're uhyou're married, you get out of
the National Guard.
Is he still he's so he's out ofthe service now?
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
He is out of active duty, he's in National Guard, so
he ended up going to Holland,and so he was stationed over
there with the infantry unit fora little while, and then it
became mechanized, and I thinkit moved up to Grand Rapids.
Um, and at that time he was justfinishing the police academy at
Kalamazoo Valley, and he waslooking for a job um as a police
(25:52):
officer.
So he had multiple locations tokind of pick from.
I desperately wanted to go toTexas.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
Not want to stay in Michigan.
And he's like, Well, my unclesdoesn't necessarily transfer,
I'd have to take it all overagain.
I'm like, yeah, but wouldn't itbe worth it?
And he's like, No.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
I've already done it once.
How hard can it be?
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Right.
I'm like, he passed with flyingcolors.
SPEAKER_02 (26:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
Um, but he had uh an optor opportunity to go to
either Benton Harbor, Detroit,or Jackson.
And then oddly enough, we end upin Jackson, and this is after
I'm out.
I'm like, now I'm close enoughto my unit.
SPEAKER_02 (26:28):
Right.
That would have worked outnicely.
SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
Right.
And so he started at um Jacksonuh police department downtown.
He was there for about fouryears and then five years, and
then he um transferred over towhere he's at now in Blackmen.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
So familiar with Blackman Township.
I used to work on Purnell Road.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
Oh, he that's where he worked.
SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
Yeah, like right across the street.
I was at Consumers Energy.
SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
Oh, so you were at Consumer Energy.
Okay, right across the street.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Yeah, yeah.
I saw those guys pulling peopleover all the time.
Busy, busy group of guys downthere.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yes, they are.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
Yeah.
So in the meantime, like you'reuh I'm I'm I'm assuming you're
having kids somewhere in there.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, we did.
Uh huh.
So my kids um are right nowrange 27 down to 21.
They're about a five and a halfyear span between the first and
the last.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
And most of that was while he was in JNet when he was
working at the city.
And um, I ended up taking apart-time job working, you know,
claims and insurance down in inJackson.
Um, that allowed me a littletime to kind of flex with the
kids so I didn't have to take alot of time off because you
know, his job was incrediblydemanding and hard to work
(27:39):
around.
Um, but then when my I think itwas when my son got out of
daycare at that stage, I waslike, all right, I think I'm
ready for something different.
I want to get into the fieldthat I wanted to.
Um my end goal was to go activeand maybe do, you know, military
intelligence.
(27:59):
I didn't get into it becauseeverything was being downsized
and not many people were able togo active.
SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (28:05):
Um, so I'm like, okay, I can do pre-law.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
So this whole time you're still thinking military.
Yeah, like that's what I'm gonnado.
SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
I am, and then 9-11 hit when I was pregnant with my
third daughter.
SPEAKER_02 (28:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
And my husband had just gotten out about eight
months prior to that.
So I was having a little bit ofangina going, Are you gonna be
called back up?
SPEAKER_02 (28:25):
Yeah, that was a scary time.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
Very scary.
And that pretty much sealed mydecision that no, that's not
what I want to do.
I want to be here for my kids,and I've got a completely
different trajectory with mylife than what I would have had
in the military.
SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
Right.
So you ended up going pre-lawthen?
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
Yep.
I ended up doing pre-law, andthen I ended up getting um my
paralegal certification.
Once I completed that, I startedinterviewing, and that's how I
got the job where I'm at Alexis.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
Oh, all right.
So how long have you been atyour current job?
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
I've been there now.
It would have been started in2007, so 18 years.
Wow.
Going on 19 March 12th.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
Time flies.
SPEAKER_00 (29:06):
Yes.
It feels like yesterday too.
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And and the older you get, thequicker it flies.
I'm just gonna put that outthere for you.
Great.
People used to tell me that crapall the time, and I thought, oh,
no way.
And then I'm like, oh my god,I'm one of those people now.
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
I looked at November and I'm like, it's November
what?
13th?
I'm like, it just turnedNovember.
It cannot be the 13th.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Yeah, yeah.
It hit me like I rememberputting all my patio furniture
out in the spring.
Yeah, and now all of a suddenI'm putting it all away.
I'm like, what happened?
I only use it like three times.
What in the world happened?
SPEAKER_00 (29:40):
It moved quick.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
So, what what attracted you to law then?
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
I again, it's like the the rules, regiment, um,
methodical.
I I can follow it.
There's a process, and it'sblack and white-ish.
And then when I got into it, I'mlike, it is definitely not black
and white.
SPEAKER_02 (30:00):
It's all interpretation, right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Very, very much.
And um I just I love research.
I like reading, I like umgathering information, I like
deducing information.
Um, I like a challenge.
So that fit great.
And I'm people awkward.
Um, I'm I'm not a greatsocializer.
(30:23):
Uh, I like to try to be a goodsocializer.
It's exhausting.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
I'm surprised.
Like, I remember meeting you atthe at the golf outing, and you
you did a good job.
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
I did good.
You did.
And um, if I know the people andit's not a lot of new people, I
can socialize okay.
But it will suck my my socialbattery dry.
And then I'm like, it's seveno'clock, I'm going to bed.
Peace out.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
You need a little nap after all that, right?
Well, so your kids are all offthe payroll now, pretty much,
right?
Or close to it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
Close to it.
SPEAKER_02 (30:56):
Yeah, tell me about them.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
So my oldest daughter, um, she graduated from
Northern.
She's 27, and she's a firstlieutenant in the Army National
Guard right now, signal corps.
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
And uh she's looking at maybe changing her MOS when
she goes to captain's careercourse.
She's like, this too is maybenot like my strongest for today,
but she's she's killing it.
I mean, she's getting awardsafter awards and you know,
getting praise after praise.
And it's so freaking awesome towatch.
I'm a little jealous becauseshe's she's able to do all the
(31:31):
stuff that I wanted to do, but Ididn't do.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:34):
Um, but it's beautiful to watch her do it.
I was a little freaked out.
I'm like, you sure you want togo?
In the army, you sure want to dothe military.
As a mother, it was a wholedifferent feeling versus me.
I'm like, yeah, I can take onthe world, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Right.
Now you know how kind of howyour mom felt, right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:47):
And I was like, I can't be a hypocrite.
SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
Right.
Isn't it funny how that wholething comes around, right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
It does.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Like when your mom wished that you had kids that
were just like you and then youhad them.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
Yeah.
So um she's she's doing greatright now.
And then my second daughter is avet tech.
She we the military wasn't herthing.
She's like, maybe I want to doit, maybe I don't.
But she's also the one thatshe's she's a brainiac, like my
husband.
Brilliant.
And she wanted to be a lawyer,but a doctor and a vet.
(32:20):
But she also wanted to docertain philanthropic type
stuff.
And I'm like, well, could wejust pick one career and maybe
get an education and pursue thatand then go back for another one
later where you can afford it onyour own?
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
Hint, hint.
SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Hint hint.
And so she did.
She got her degree, and nowshe's a vet tech and she
absolutely loves it.
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
So, yeah.
And then my third daughter,she's in the Navy, she's a
corpsman.
Um, and their ranking and theirtheir titles are still a little
foreign to me.
And I'm like, well, what doesthat mean?
What is that?
Is that like an E5?
And she goes, Yes, it's it'slike that.
Um, and she's stationed over inBethesda.
(33:03):
It was funny because her firststation um was Hawaii, and
that's where my husband was.
He hated it.
He hated Hawaii.
And I remember looking at himgoing, Are you crazy?
How can you hate Hawaii?
And he goes, I hated it.
And um I went to vacation in themain island, and I'm like, I
don't know what you're talkingabout.
There was none of that problemthere.
(33:24):
And he's talking about like thehomeless and the dogs and all
that stuff.
Well, when my daughter we wentto visit her, he goes, I'm never
going back to Hawaii over mydead body.
And I'm like, Well, I think yourdead body arrived.
We're going.
So get on board.
And we ended up going back, andhe was a hesitant, but he
enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:40):
Right.
Well, it's different when youdon't live there.
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:43):
My son was stationed in Hawaii as well, and he like
he said it was great for likethe first six months.
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
And then it just sucked the rest of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
Yeah, because you can't go anywhere.
I mean, you have to island hop,that's costly.
Everything's costly.
And once you see it, you'relike, all right, next.
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
Well, my daughter's a beach person, so it was
perfect for her.
And um, she ended up gettingmarried while she was down there
and ended up co-locating over toMaryland, and she got stationed
in Bethesda, and it's different.
She it starts getting coldbecause I think I miss Hawaii.
SPEAKER_02 (34:17):
She she can always go back though, right?
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yep.
Well, now she's talking aboutItaly, and now I've got a
grandson, and I'm like, You'renot taking my grandson to Italy.
I'm like, she's like, Well, if Igo, I have to go.
I'm like, Well, don't make it achoice if you don't have to.
Right.
Being selfish.
SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
Maybe it'll maybe they'll be good for him, though.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
Well, I mean, it's selfish on my part, 100%.
But I think it would beabsolutely phenomenal experience
for her and my grandson that youotherwise don't get in a normal
career.
I mean, if she's a surge techoutside of it working for a
hospital, they're not gonna shipher to Italy, they're not gonna
ship her to Hawaii, they're notgonna ship her to Guam.
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
In Japan, I mean, the experience that you get is
it's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (34:59):
It is.
It is the old what's the oldadage, join the navy, see the
world.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah.
I I enjoyed my time there.
It's funny, you were talkingabout how um I just want to go
back a little bit.
You're talking about how likeyou didn't understand like the
ranks and all that stuff in theNavy, right?
I re I remember um I was a firecontrolman in the Navy, which
means I worked on guided missilecomputer systems, right?
Okay, and so my mom would telleveryone that she knew that I
(35:24):
was a firefighter.
Yeah, my son's a firefighter,and I finally had to say, look,
mom, no, I don't put fires out,I start them on other people's
ships.
SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
I thought that's what it was too, and she had to
correct me.
Why are you fire control?
Yeah.
I was like, that stuff doesn'tmake any sense to me.
SPEAKER_02 (35:41):
No, none of it does.
None of it does.
But uh yeah, well, that's thenavy for you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:45):
Well, even the acronyms of you know what we
used to call like your LBE,right?
Um, in the Army.
Um, my daughter was trying toexplain to me even today's
version of what the LBE wasthen.
The first time she was talkingabout her flick.
I'm like, what the heck's aflick?
I'm like, explain that.
And she starts explaining it.
I'm like, oh, your LBE.
(36:06):
She goes, What's an LBE?
So we ended up having like thissix-month conversation going
back and forth of just trying tounderstand each other's
acronyms.
And I had to compare it to ouracronyms versus her acronyms to
understand what she was talkingabout.
Now I've got a pretty good ideaof what she's what she's
referencing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
But then my daughter, when she's through the
the Navy acronyms in there, I'mlike, I give up.
I I can't keep up with it.
So I'm just gonna sit here andgo, Yeah, I get it.
I know what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
Smile and nod, right?
Smile and nod.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Sure, I'll figure it out someday.
unknown (36:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:35):
So now how old's your grandson?
I can't I can't leave the factthat you're a grandma of that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
He is four months.
SPEAKER_02 (36:42):
Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (36:43):
He's just a little peanut and he is the happiest
little clam ever.
Just I mean, he is constantlyhappy.
She got a good one.
SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
Very easy.
SPEAKER_02 (36:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Well, she knows she can always kind of ship him over
to grandma if she's got to gosomeplace, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
I keep begging.
SPEAKER_02 (36:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
And I'm like, you know, I can I can I can put in
an AWA to go work remote once amonth.
And she's like, Well, we mayhave to talk about that.
I'm like, I'm just there tohelp.
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
That's right.
It's all about you, not me.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Right.
You need to go go hang out withyour friends, go work out.
I'm just there to hold the baby.
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
Right.
There you go.
So you're 18 years at yourcurrent job.
Sounds like you're loving it.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
I am.
SPEAKER_02 (37:24):
At least that's the reports I get.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
And uh the kids are kind of getting out on their
own.
And um, you're recently an emptynester or close to it.
SPEAKER_00 (37:33):
Close to it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
Yeah, and uh your husband's probably gonna retire
sometime.
SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Two and a half years.
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Yeah, not too distant future.
Like, what is what does thefuture look like for you?
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
That is a good question.
Um, so I didn't say my grand myson is out also, he moved to
Indiana, took a job down there.
So he does construction, andwe're looking at potentially
building um the next home.
We've looked anywhere from goingup to Drummond Island up in the
UP.
Oh very secluded.
(38:04):
I mean, I'm not a people person,but I do need a little people.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:08):
And I like it, and it's beautiful.
I love the upper peninsula, butI'm not a fan of negative temps
and a ton of snow.
SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
That is not the place for you then.
SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
It isn't.
Uh but every once in a whilehe's like, You sure you don't
want to go?
And I'm like, I'm on the fence.
I mean, I could go.
I don't know if it's I'm notsold yet.
Um, I don't like Florida.
I mean, I'm at that stage whereI'm constantly warm.
So Florida is definitely off thetable, but something in the
middle.
So he gets the the opportunityto retire in two and a half
(38:41):
years.
Um, whether he does or hedoesn't, I don't know.
It just depends on theenvironment and where he's at.
Um, but at that stage in thegame, if he can, I mean, I've
got to wait until I can retire.
So I'm looking at maybe another10 years.
And maybe getting some propertysomewhere in between, down like
(39:02):
Tennessee, Kentucky is kind ofwhere we're looking at.
But both of us are gonna beneeding an extra hobby to keep
ourselves occupied.
SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
And so you don't kill each other.
SPEAKER_00 (39:11):
Yes.
And I mean, he he's a bookworm,and um, he teaches on the side.
I mean, he teaches at well, hewas he's teaching at Siena,
which is now closing down.
Um, but he also teaches at umJackson College and he teaches
uh psychology because he's alsogot his PhD in behavioral psych.
SPEAKER_02 (39:30):
Okay.
Um, he is not the cop I want toget pulled over by.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
We don't.
The reason he did it was becausehe was a detective.
Yeah.
So now he can interview youreally well, and he's an expert
witness.
Awesome.
Um, but he uh I I don't know ifhe'll continue with teaching, so
it kind of depends on what whatpath he takes because he'll be
there before me.
Um myself, I am gonna learn howto golf better.
(39:57):
And depending on where my kidsall land, you know, do some
traveling.
SPEAKER_02 (40:01):
Yeah.
Well, as long as you're still inthis area, uh Alexis and I will
be happy to help you.
SPEAKER_00 (40:05):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
My golf game sucks.
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
So well, she's the one that helped me.
I mean, she actually tweakedjust little minor things in such
a way that I'm like, oh, I knowwhat you're saying.
It was like the light bulb wentoff, and I'm like, it worked.
Oh my god, I got the ball offthe ground.
SPEAKER_02 (40:22):
Maybe I should be more appreciative of her help.
Maybe, maybe I'll take a cuefrom you and do that.
We'll see what happens.
So, do you think that there'sthings that you learned in your
time in the military that havehelped you with what you're
doing now?
SPEAKER_00 (40:35):
Oh, yes.
Um, I can be very squirrely.
I mean, it's one of the reasonsI actually got my office set up
the way I do.
Um, because you can startle me,because I'll either hyperfocus
or I'm watching everything goingon over here and I'm not paying
attention to what I'm doinghere.
Um, and I didn't have a lot ofstructure growing up.
My parents weren't big onforcing you to sit down to your
(40:57):
homework and being verymethodical.
Um, and that is one big thingthat I took away from it.
And I think because I I wascraving it and I got it, I
didn't let it go.
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
So I got a little obsessive with it.
Um, but it was it was good forme.
I needed that.
And the structure keeps meorganized, the structure keeps
me going, structure keeps me dradriven.
Um I think it opened up mypersonality too, because I was a
little bit more of a a quietwallflower.
Um and I was afraid of askingcertain questions, afraid of you
(41:35):
know upsetting somebody,offending somebody.
And then after getting, youknow, through school of
realizing that I have a voiceand you can like it or not, and
your feelings are your feelings,and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to
offend you, but it is what itis.
Yeah, it took me a while, evenafter getting out of the
service, how to apply that, andthen it just it it worked and it
(41:59):
was great.
So now I feel a lot moreempowered than I did when I was
a teenager or my early 20s.
SPEAKER_02 (42:06):
Okay.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
I was gonna say I don't I don't peg you as the the
quiet type, honestly, but I wasa talker, but I was a wallflower
in certain situations, kind oflike that antisocial piece.
SPEAKER_01 (42:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Um I never shut up.
But it was just random things,and I talk your ear off, and I
would just sit back and thenkind of watch.
I didn't join in things is thethe big thing.
That's why I ran because it waseasy.
But the skill sets definitelytransfer into my job now.
I mean, being patient, beingable to listen, being able to
(42:41):
listen to different people, heartheir ideas, talk them through
it, being able to research,being able to follow your rules.
You remember that littlehandbook that we all kept in our
pockets?
Oh, yeah.
Love that.
I still have mine.
SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Do you?
I do.
Mine's lost.
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
And I mean, I wouldn't be doing the work that
I'm doing as well as I am if Ididn't have those skills.
I'd probably be an artist, whichI wouldn't have been very good
at at because that was the onlything I could do at the time.
SPEAKER_02 (43:13):
That's a big that's a big difference.
SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
That was a big difference.
SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (43:17):
Well, we've covered a lot in the last 45 minutes
hour.
Um, is there anything we haven'ttalked about that you want to
talk about?
SPEAKER_00 (43:25):
No, I mean, I've I've literally given you my
entire family history.
It's kind of funny just hearingit and saying it and being asked
it.
So um, I'm good.
SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
All right.
Well, we've got one lastquestion for you.
SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (43:38):
So, you know, years from now when someone's
listening to this, so I alwayslike to think, you know, a
hundred years from now, whenneither one of us are sitting
here, um, what would you likepeople to take away from this?
What message would you have forpeople listening to you right
now?
SPEAKER_00 (43:54):
Don't be afraid to go against the grain of even
your loved ones, if it's achoice that you want to pursue.
I think sometimes we want toplease our family to the nth
degree, and we sacrificeourselves sometimes in the the
mixed.
Um I think that by taking thethe chance that people will come
(44:18):
around, kind of like my mother.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
And even myself with my daughters, um it all works
out.
And it's definitely worthpursuing than not pursuing it
and regretting it.
SPEAKER_02 (44:31):
All right.
Well, thanks for that.
And thanks for coming out afterwork and hanging out with me for
an hour.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
I love it.
It was fun.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (44:37):
You're welcome.
Today is Thursday, November 13th, 2025.
We're talking with MichelleBolter, who served in the Army
National Guard.
So good afternoon.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Good afternoon.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
Thanks for coming by after work.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Anytime.
SPEAKER_02 (01:12):
All right.
We're going to get right intoit.
When and where are you were youborn?
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
I was born August 31st, 1974, in Kalamzu,
Michigan.
SPEAKER_02 (01:21):
Wow, 1974.
I was nine years old.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Usually I'm the one that's going, oh, well, I was
way old at that stage.
SPEAKER_02 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah.
I I you know, I hate seeing theyou can drink if you were born
by this date.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Awful.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't even look at thatanymore.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
You don't even check your ID anymore.
It's like, could you just take alook at it?
Make me feel better.
SPEAKER_02 (01:43):
Right.
So did you grow up in Kalamazoo?
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I did.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
So not I well, I was born in Kalamazoo, and then my
dad got a job up in um Otsego,Michigan, which is about 30
minutes from there.
And we ended up moving up there,and I for the most part grew up
in Otsego.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Okay.
What was it like growing up inOtsego?
SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
Um, it's a very small town.
Everybody knows everything abouteverybody.
Um, but it was, I mean, a lot offreedom.
Um, we lived out in thetownship, so if you wanted to go
anywhere, you had to bike it orfoot it.
Um, main shopping was down inKelm Zoo, so if you couldn't
drive, you weren't gonna getthere.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Um, a lot of softball, a lot of sports, a lot
of running.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Sounds like you're kind of athletic.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
So tell me about your family.
How many brothers and sistersdid you have?
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
So I grew up with four sisters, they're all older,
and I make sure I make that veryclear, they're all older.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So my oldest sister, they range from being about 17
years older than me versus threeyears.
SPEAKER_02 (02:43):
Oh, wow, that's quite a span.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
It was a big span.
So my first three sisters areabout four years apart.
And then there's a 10-year gap,and then there's my fourth
sister, and then there's about athree-year gap between me and
her.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
Okay.
So you were the baby.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
I'm the baby.
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Is it all true?
All that stuff they say aboutthe baby.
Like your parents were just wornout.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
A little bit.
We got away with a lot more thanour older sisters did for sure,
because they grew up in the 70s.
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
Oh, good.
That's nice.
So uh so tell me about what wasit like having all those all
those women in the house?
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Um, well, not all of us were in the house at the same
time.
So not as bad as what you wouldthink, but um, I think my oldest
sister, because I was four whenwe moved into the house and at
Seagout.
And at that time, I think shehad actually moved to Texas.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Um, so it would have been the other two sisters.
My second sister was probablythere just for a brief amount of
time because she got marriedwhen I was five to her first
husband.
And then my third sister wasstill in high school.
My fourth sister was inelementary like me.
Um, there was a lot of fightingfor the bathroom, fighting for
clothes, fighting over clothes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
Um were there a lot of hammy downs?
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Oh, that's all I got.
And we were all shaped verydifferently, which didn't really
help the clothes fittingcorrectly.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
I'm the shortest person in my family by about two
inches.
And then my other sister, theone that's closest to me, is
about four inches taller thanme.
So I always got her hammy downs.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
I had to roll and peg my pants.
SPEAKER_02 (04:25):
At least it was popular then, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
It was very popular then.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yeah, so it worked out.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
But she had a tiny waist and I was built like
SpongeBob.
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
It didn't really fit well.
I I wore men's pants betterbecause they were straight.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Well, that makes sense, I guess, if you were
built like SpongeBob.
Yep.
Well, so what did your what sowhat did your parents do?
What did your dad do that hemoved to Otsego for work?
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
So my dad's originally from Illinois, Cook
County, and he ended upenlisting in the army.
Um, he lied about his age to getinto the army because he had a
very bad home life.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
And the army, he was in it for about two years, and I
didn't find this out until youhe had passed.
Um, and then after he got outfrom his two-year contract
there, he um enlisted in theNavy, and that's where he did
the longest stunt was in theNavy.
So then he, when he was in a Ithink about 20, he was over in
California, um, Laguna Beach,and that's where he met my
(05:25):
mother.
And from there he moved back toChicago and started working, I
think, in painting and otherentrepreneurial stuff.
But then he went to school, gotan I think an externship or an
internship, um, working as anengineer with somebody down in
Illinois, and they had a placeup in Otsego, which is Parker
(05:48):
Hannifin.
So we moved to Michigan, or theymoved to Michigan.
I was born in Michigan.
Yeah, and then um he retired outof there 40 years later.
SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
Really?
Okay.
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
My mom was a stay-at-home mom.
She did odd jobs every once in awhile, so she had to put up with
us 99% of the time.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
I I think with all those kids, she probably didn't
have time to work.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
She didn't.
She was a chauffeur not only ofme and my sisters, but then by
the time we were old enough, meand my fourth sister, um, my
nephews and my nieces startedcoming along, and they're a
little bit younger than me.
My nephew, my oldest nephew'sonly four years younger than me.
Um so they kind of got foldedinto the mix.
(06:33):
So she was a running daycarebetween her kids and her
grandkids until she just aboutpassed.
SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
So you you were your nephews are like almost my age.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I take it back.
My my oldest nephew's six yearsyounger than me.
Okay.
He's six years.
So, and then after him, my thirdnephew is eight years, and then
my niece is ten, my other nephewwas ten, and then there was a
twelve, and then obviously therewas the big gap.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
And then my fourth sister, her kids, and my kids
are fairly close in age.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
Oh, that's very cool.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
But I just found out I'm gonna be a great great aunt.
So my great niece is actuallydue in July.
SPEAKER_02 (07:12):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Oh we got we got a lot of kids in our family.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Does that make you feel old to be a great great
aunt?
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
At 51, yeah.
I don't feel like I should betoo great.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Right.
Maybe a great, maybe not, whoknows?
SPEAKER_00 (07:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Yeah.
Well, talk to me about school.
Like, what was that like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
So high school was sports.
I mean, I did my homework, I wasgood students.
I didn't really have to workhard for it.
And so by the time I got readyto graduate, um, I was looking
at going to one of the militaryacademies.
Um I was looking at one over inVermont.
I got accepted there, gotaccepted to northern Michigan,
(07:52):
and I got accepted to Western.
And at the time when I went toWestern, it was more of like a
financial thing.
And I had scholarshipopportunities there, so I took
up the scholarship opportunitiesand ended up at Western.
SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
Now, were those sports-related scholarships
then?
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Started off with a cross-country intertrack
scholarship.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Um, and then when I got in there, I was still
working a couple jobs just sothat my parents didn't have to
flip the bill.
They did help.
Um, but uh what was it?
My brother-in-law was in thearmy, and my sister had just
recently married him.
And I can't believe I'm actuallygonna say this because he's
likely gonna hear this.
(08:32):
Like I idolized him.
I mean, he was the one brotherthat I had that I was probably
felt like a brother at the time,and acted like a brother.
My other brother-in-laws weregreat, but he was close to my
age, very inspirational, and heended up uh signing up for the
army and got deployed duringDesert Storm.
So it was a very emotional time.
SPEAKER_01 (08:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Um, watching my sister, kind of not knowing
what's going on with him, what'sgoing on with the world.
And when they decided that theywere gonna get married, I was
talking with him and I'm like,this is what I want to do.
This is what I want to do.
And my mom wasn't necessarilyfor it and tried talking me out
of it.
It wasn't a good idea.
(09:15):
You know, you're a girl, you'renot gonna be able to do much.
And after about a year ofcollege, I ended up going over
and just walking over to thebattalion um on campus and ended
up talking to a guy, his namewas Captain Reisingal at the
time.
Great guy.
And he's like, worst thing youcan do is just sign up for the
(09:35):
course, and if you don't likeit, you don't have to commit to
it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Right.
So I'm like, why not give it ashot?
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
Nothing to lose, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Nothing.
And I'm like, and I can run, getget a little more of that in.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Um, so you're one of those.
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
I was one of those.
I'm not so much as I would liketo be one of those again, but
it's not in my cards right now.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
Right, right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
But yes, I was addicted to running.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
You're one of the very few people I've talked to
that talked about their militarytime military time and said I
loved running.
Yeah, I could run more if I didthis.
Yes.
Said no one ever, except you.
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
I didn't like the pull-ups or the push-ups because
I have noodles for arms, but Icould definitely kill it in the
run.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
Yeah, run in circles around the guys, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
So um, when I signed up for the first semester, I'm
like, yep, this is it.
This is it.
And I didn't tell my parentsthat I signed up for the second
semester, and I just did it.
And at that point in time, I'mlike, all right, I'm gonna go to
basic, I'm gonna enlist, I'mgonna do, you know, the dual
fold.
And I gave my parents about twoweeks to adjust to it.
(10:45):
And my dad just kind of lookedat me, he goes, I'm not shocked.
He goes, Good luck.
And then my mom cried, and sheshe thought I was enlisting and
going away permanently.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
And I'm like, no, I'm enlisting National Guard,
I'm doing the simultaneous kindof program like they have now,
just a little different then.
And I'm like, I'm gonna still goto school, but I'll be doing
both, right?
And she's like, but you can goaway, you can be shipped off.
And I'm like, likelihood is notright now, right?
Um, and then from graduationthere it was much easier on her.
(11:24):
She didn't seem to be botheredby it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
So talk to me about basic training then.
So you you did um basic traininglike in between.
unknown (11:32):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
I had to do it between in the summer semester.
So um Western finishes roughlythe end of April, the first part
of May, I was one of the firstclasses to go.
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
So um and where'd you go?
I went to Louisville.
SPEAKER_02 (11:47):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Really?
Okay.
So so walk me through that.
What was it like when you gotthere?
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Uh hot.
Very, very hot.
And then when I realized that umto start off, they wanted us to
wear our blouse sleeves down.
I'm like, this is gonna suck.
The barracks were not air airconditioned at all.
And um, I'm like, what did I getmyself into?
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
Like, do I really want to do this?
And um from there, it was justyour basic training, right?
Yeah.
And after week seven, I'm like,okay, this isn't so bad.
I can continue to do this.
And then with you know, youstart getting into the fun
stuff, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Um and then it's over.
And then I had to turn aroundand come back to school.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
So before we turn that page or leave that chapter,
um, like what sticks out in yourmind most about basic training?
Like when you think about ittoday, you know, what's the look
like what's one thing that youreally remember about that?
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
Um I really, really enjoyed shooting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
That was one of my my favorite things.
I mean, my dad had a shotgun, weweren't allowed to touch it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Um, so I really hadn't been exposed to guns or
any kind of weaponry really umup until that point.
So being able to shoot a wholebunch of different things and
then being semi-proficient, I'mnot like my husband by any
means, but um, I really enjoyedthat.
And when I came back the nextsemester, I actually joined our
rifle team at Western.
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
Which was a little bit of a shock because we were
using the old wooden rifles thatweighed about 20, 30 pounds.
And I'm like, well, this isn'twhat I thought I was getting
into.
But we'll we'll keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt.
Did you get to throw the handgrenade and basic training and
all that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Yeah, and I didn't do so hot with that because like
I said, I got noodles and Ithrew it and I'm like, man, I
really did good.
And all I remember is my drillsergeant slamming me to the
ground, and he goes, You you youdidn't throw it very hard.
He goes, You want to try again?
I'm like, No, not really.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
As long as that was a pass, you're good, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
I passed, yeah, but it wasn't with flying colors.
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
So you get back to school.
Was that so coming back frombasic training, was that a bit
of an adjustment for you to beback at school?
Or did you just like assimilateright back in?
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
It um it was I I like regiment, and I think
that's one reason that I likethe idea of the military.
I like regiment, I likemethodical, I like rules.
Yeah, I mean, it's what I dotoday.
Right.
Um and not necessarily havingthat structure was a little
(14:24):
off-putting.
Um, but I think because we diddo um PT every single morning,
and we did battalion everysingle night.
Um, it wasn't as bad, but Ithink the the the culture of the
school was not necessarily atthe time pro-military.
(14:49):
Um, nothing like the environmentthat we have today.
Um, but you could definitelyfeel it right in little some
cases, depending on where youwere at, what you were doing,
and if you had anything militaryon, you you feel a little
ostracized.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
But um coming back wasn't wasn't bad.
I gotta sleep in a little bitmore.
SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Oh, that's true.
So that was nice.
Didn't get yelled at quite asmuch.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Not as much.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
Not that stuff.
Now, were you assigned to a unitafter this?
SPEAKER_00 (15:16):
Um, not during that time, because at that time you
would enlist, but all the stuffthat you had to do for ROTC, you
still had to do all your drills,and we did all of our drills
over at um Fort Custer at thetime.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
Um, and then in the summer, you would, if you
weren't doing basic or waitingto go to advanced camp between
your junior and your senioryear, um, you could do go to all
these schools.
Um you still had to do your twoweeks, but then you still had
all these schools that werepotentially options for you.
Sometimes if you were reallygood, you got into two schools.
(15:48):
I got into one um each summer.
So that was that was about it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Oh, okay.
Well, because I know uh when Iwas in the National Guard, we
had actually had cadets fromWestern that would come drill
with us or come up to our ourtwo-week summer camp, as we like
to call it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Yeah.
Nope, we didn't we didn't dothose because I chose to go to
the schools.
If you went to the schools, youdidn't have to necessarily do it
unless the stars aligned and youcould, and you could go do the
the two, but it wasn'tnecessarily required.
SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
Okay.
You made the right choice.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Schools were fun.
Yeah, yeah, you got the I LoveMe patches as we went.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
Yeah, we weren't really nice to the cadets very
often.
We every once in a while you getlike a shining star, and they
were great, but most of the timewe just gave them a lot of crap.
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
So yeah, you made the right choice there.
So you uh you make it throughWestern, you get your bachelor
what'd you get your bachelor'sdegree?
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
My bachelor's in political science, international
relations.
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Okay.
And then what happens?
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
So got my commission in 96.
Okay, and got commissionedoriginally as adjunct, um,
adjutant general, sorry.
And trying to find a unit at thetime that had a space for me.
(17:38):
There really wasn't, so then Iswitched to Signal Corps.
And then um I ended up gettingstationed with the 63rd Troop
Command down in Jackson, which Idon't think was there much
longer after I got out.
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
So um why I was there was kind of like a jack of
all trades.
They just put you where theyneeded you and um waited to go
to A school.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Okay.
And uh you went off to A school?
Yep.
And what did you learn there?
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
That Signal Core was not my forte.
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Not your cup of tea.
SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
Communications technology.
I mean, I can do okay withOutlook and Teams and Copilot
nowadays, but that was a wholedifferent form of technology.
Like looking at your switchboardand all this stuff, I was like,
I'm in over my head.
SPEAKER_02 (18:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
But I love the people that I was there with.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Well, that's good.
So you made it through schoolthough, I'm assuming.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
Okay.
And what was so what was itlike?
What was uh what was kind oflike a typical day with the your
with your unit then?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
Um, it was just, I mean, it was a lot of logistics.
I never went anywhere.
My this is where my time gotreally short because I got my
commission, went to school, um,and I was out in about 18
months.
So I only had, you know, roughly17 drills.
Um, and they didn't really havea whole lot of structure around
(18:56):
my job in the the command at thetime.
So I was I felt like I was moreof a plug and play.
Where where can we put you tofill your your role?
But a lot of it was morelogistics, just moving stuff,
tracking stuff, reporting stuff,auditing stuff.
That was it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
Yeah.
So you kind of do some of thattoday, right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
I do a lot of that today.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Yeah, we'll get there.
I promise.
So you so your enlistment is upthen after 18 months, roughly?
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
Well, it wasn't.
Um, unfortunately, it was cutshort, not to my choice.
Um, I when I went to um advancedschool for the in the summer
between my junior and my senioryear, one of the Audi Murphy
courses, right?
Um, I injured my back.
And about seven months later, Iended up having surgery on it.
(19:48):
And I passed the PT test, but Icontinue to have some
aggravating problems.
So I wasn't necessarilymedically discharged because my
unit was also more than 90 milesaway from where I was at.
And they're like, okay, well,before we put you up for review,
why don't we take this out?
And then if you can pass and youget medically cleared, then you
(20:09):
can always come back.
And after that, it turned intomy husband got a different job.
We ended up moving, um, ended uphaving kids, and here I am.
SPEAKER_02 (20:19):
Yeah.
So did you get married while youwere still in the guard?
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
I got married when yes, I did.
I'm trying to remember.
Okay, I got my commission in 96,me and my husband got married in
97.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
Okay.
All right.
So married kind of young.
SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
Very young.
I was uh 22, he was 23.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
And then our first daughter was born when I was 24.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Okay.
How'd you meet?
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Um, I've known him all my life.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
We went to school together.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Were you were you high school sweethearts?
SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
No.
Oh.
That's the funny part.
SPEAKER_02 (20:51):
Yeah, well, talk me through this.
I want to hear this story.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
So I'll start you off in first grade, um, getting
small school right.
Right.
And I see a guy who I was in myclass, happened to be his twin
brother.
And I see him go into thebathroom, and then next thing
you know, I see somebody comingout the the other door, which
was a different classroom, andit's the same kid.
And I didn't know what twinswere.
(21:16):
We didn't have them.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
And so I remember asking my teacher, and she's
like, Well, they're a set oftwins, they're both brothers,
and um, she explained it.
So then I had a little bit of anobsession because they were both
cute.
And now this is on the code.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
I'm learning I'm learning so much about you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
Well, the worst thing was is I actually had a
crush in kindergarten in firstgrade on their dad.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
And it was told at a wedding to my father-in-law who
just blushed and walked away.
And I'm like, you guys aremiserable.
But we ended up being reallygood friends.
We all did the same sports, meand um my husband and my
brother-in-law.
And um, in high school, we alldid cross country.
We did track.
I tried swimming.
I don't swim very well, I think.
(22:02):
So um I ended up doingvolleyball in other sports, um,
but cross country and track weremy main thing.
And they were like the twobrothers I never wanted.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
And in middle school, it was like this
hovering, who are you talkingto?
What are you doing?
Interrupting.
I'm like, I'm talking to a boy,leave me alone.
I don't need you here.
Um, and they were both datingother people.
I mean, and he actually lives acountry block away from his
family from where my family grewup.
So we had this big space inbetween our house that sometimes
(22:34):
it was an acorn war or duct tapewar in between.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
Um, so fast forward, he ships off, he goes into the
army, he ends up gettingstationed down in Hawaii, and I
go to I go to college.
And it was the first semester ofmy senior year.
Yeah, it had to be.
Um, and I have my glasses off,like I do right now, because um
(23:03):
I was doing something and Ineeded to see close, but I
recognized the voice across thethe drill hall.
I'm like, that sounds reallyfamiliar.
It can't be.
So I'm trying to find myglasses, put it on.
And we had this one guy that wasobsessed with the Ranger tab.
And so he was over there talkinghim up, and I'm like, oh my God,
I know you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
And he comes in, he goes, What are you doing here?
So we talked, and he was at thetime looking to do like the
green to gold scholarship, getout of active duty and last and
go to college and become anofficer.
And so we talked and connected alittle bit, but he wasn't
officially out at that time.
And he goes, Well, be out inDecember.
He goes, Why don't you swing byand say hi?
(23:46):
And I tried calling him likeonce or twice.
He didn't pick up.
And I make sure I reminded himhim that of every chance I get.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Oh, yes, he was screening his calls.
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Oh, he was.
And um, I was dropping a friendoff over in Fenville, which went
right past his house atChristmas time.
And I'm like, you know what?
You're home.
You never called me back.
So I whip into his driveway.
It was kind of like alast-minute thing.
I ended up knocking over and notknocking, running over one of
his mom's benches because it wascovered in snow.
(24:16):
So never lived that one down.
Um, and from there we ended upstarted we started dating, and
here we are.
SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
Do you think it was just because he was scared?
SPEAKER_00 (24:27):
Probably was.
He should be.
He still is.
SPEAKER_02 (24:30):
Gotta keep him on their toes, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
Yes.
He never knows what he's gonnaget with me.
SPEAKER_02 (24:36):
Yeah.
Like a box of chocolates, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
I always say Rubik's Cube, butsame thing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Or jelly beans.
Yeah.
It could be a sweet flavor, itcould be a real sour flavor the
next day.
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
Well, good for him.
So so you uh you forced your wayinto his house and ruined a
bench of his mom's and and therest is history.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
I made him date me.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
Yeah.
How'd that work out?
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Uh we are sitting at 28 years going on 29.
SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
Oh, congratulations.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
So, yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
That's that's nice.
I will tell you, I've I'vetalked to some people, World War
II vets married like 75 years.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
That blows my mind.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
That's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
But you guys are on your way there, so that's good.
SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
We are.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
Yeah.
So you uh so you're you're uhyou're married, you get out of
the National Guard.
Is he still he's so he's out ofthe service now?
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
He is out of active duty, he's in National Guard, so
he ended up going to Holland,and so he was stationed over
there with the infantry unit fora little while, and then it
became mechanized, and I thinkit moved up to Grand Rapids.
Um, and at that time he was justfinishing the police academy at
Kalamazoo Valley, and he waslooking for a job um as a police
(25:52):
officer.
So he had multiple locations tokind of pick from.
I desperately wanted to go toTexas.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
Not want to stay in Michigan.
And he's like, Well, my unclesdoesn't necessarily transfer,
I'd have to take it all overagain.
I'm like, yeah, but wouldn't itbe worth it?
And he's like, No.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
I've already done it once.
How hard can it be?
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Right.
I'm like, he passed with flyingcolors.
SPEAKER_02 (26:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
Um, but he had uh an optor opportunity to go to
either Benton Harbor, Detroit,or Jackson.
And then oddly enough, we end upin Jackson, and this is after
I'm out.
I'm like, now I'm close enoughto my unit.
SPEAKER_02 (26:28):
Right.
That would have worked outnicely.
SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
Right.
And so he started at um Jacksonuh police department downtown.
He was there for about fouryears and then five years, and
then he um transferred over towhere he's at now in Blackmen.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
So familiar with Blackman Township.
I used to work on Purnell Road.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
Oh, he that's where he worked.
SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
Yeah, like right across the street.
I was at Consumers Energy.
SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
Oh, so you were at Consumer Energy.
Okay, right across the street.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Yeah, yeah.
I saw those guys pulling peopleover all the time.
Busy, busy group of guys downthere.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yes, they are.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
Yeah.
So in the meantime, like you'reuh I'm I'm I'm assuming you're
having kids somewhere in there.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, we did.
Uh huh.
So my kids um are right nowrange 27 down to 21.
They're about a five and a halfyear span between the first and
the last.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
And most of that was while he was in JNet when he was
working at the city.
And um, I ended up taking apart-time job working, you know,
claims and insurance down in inJackson.
Um, that allowed me a littletime to kind of flex with the
kids so I didn't have to take alot of time off because you
know, his job was incrediblydemanding and hard to work
(27:39):
around.
Um, but then when my I think itwas when my son got out of
daycare at that stage, I waslike, all right, I think I'm
ready for something different.
I want to get into the fieldthat I wanted to.
Um my end goal was to go activeand maybe do, you know, military
intelligence.
(27:59):
I didn't get into it becauseeverything was being downsized
and not many people were able togo active.
SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (28:05):
Um, so I'm like, okay, I can do pre-law.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
So this whole time you're still thinking military.
Yeah, like that's what I'm gonnado.
SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
I am, and then 9-11 hit when I was pregnant with my
third daughter.
SPEAKER_02 (28:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
And my husband had just gotten out about eight
months prior to that.
So I was having a little bit ofangina going, Are you gonna be
called back up?
SPEAKER_02 (28:25):
Yeah, that was a scary time.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
Very scary.
And that pretty much sealed mydecision that no, that's not
what I want to do.
I want to be here for my kids,and I've got a completely
different trajectory with mylife than what I would have had
in the military.
SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
Right.
So you ended up going pre-lawthen?
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
Yep.
I ended up doing pre-law, andthen I ended up getting um my
paralegal certification.
Once I completed that, I startedinterviewing, and that's how I
got the job where I'm at Alexis.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
Oh, all right.
So how long have you been atyour current job?
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
I've been there now.
It would have been started in2007, so 18 years.
Wow.
Going on 19 March 12th.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
Time flies.
SPEAKER_00 (29:06):
Yes.
It feels like yesterday too.
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And and the older you get, thequicker it flies.
I'm just gonna put that outthere for you.
Great.
People used to tell me that crapall the time, and I thought, oh,
no way.
And then I'm like, oh my god,I'm one of those people now.
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
I looked at November and I'm like, it's November
what?
13th?
I'm like, it just turnedNovember.
It cannot be the 13th.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Yeah, yeah.
It hit me like I rememberputting all my patio furniture
out in the spring.
Yeah, and now all of a suddenI'm putting it all away.
I'm like, what happened?
I only use it like three times.
What in the world happened?
SPEAKER_00 (29:40):
It moved quick.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
So, what what attracted you to law then?
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
I again, it's like the the rules, regiment, um,
methodical.
I I can follow it.
There's a process, and it'sblack and white-ish.
And then when I got into it, I'mlike, it is definitely not black
and white.
SPEAKER_02 (30:00):
It's all interpretation, right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Very, very much.
And um I just I love research.
I like reading, I like umgathering information, I like
deducing information.
Um, I like a challenge.
So that fit great.
And I'm people awkward.
Um, I'm I'm not a greatsocializer.
(30:23):
Uh, I like to try to be a goodsocializer.
It's exhausting.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
I'm surprised.
Like, I remember meeting you atthe at the golf outing, and you
you did a good job.
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
I did good.
You did.
And um, if I know the people andit's not a lot of new people, I
can socialize okay.
But it will suck my my socialbattery dry.
And then I'm like, it's seveno'clock, I'm going to bed.
Peace out.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
You need a little nap after all that, right?
Well, so your kids are all offthe payroll now, pretty much,
right?
Or close to it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
Close to it.
SPEAKER_02 (30:56):
Yeah, tell me about them.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
So my oldest daughter, um, she graduated from
Northern.
She's 27, and she's a firstlieutenant in the Army National
Guard right now, signal corps.
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
And uh she's looking at maybe changing her MOS when
she goes to captain's careercourse.
She's like, this too is maybenot like my strongest for today,
but she's she's killing it.
I mean, she's getting awardsafter awards and you know,
getting praise after praise.
And it's so freaking awesome towatch.
I'm a little jealous becauseshe's she's able to do all the
(31:31):
stuff that I wanted to do, but Ididn't do.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:34):
Um, but it's beautiful to watch her do it.
I was a little freaked out.
I'm like, you sure you want togo?
In the army, you sure want to dothe military.
As a mother, it was a wholedifferent feeling versus me.
I'm like, yeah, I can take onthe world, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Right.
Now you know how kind of howyour mom felt, right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:47):
And I was like, I can't be a hypocrite.
SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
Right.
Isn't it funny how that wholething comes around, right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
It does.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Like when your mom wished that you had kids that
were just like you and then youhad them.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
Yeah.
So um she's she's doing greatright now.
And then my second daughter is avet tech.
She we the military wasn't herthing.
She's like, maybe I want to doit, maybe I don't.
But she's also the one thatshe's she's a brainiac, like my
husband.
Brilliant.
And she wanted to be a lawyer,but a doctor and a vet.
(32:20):
But she also wanted to docertain philanthropic type
stuff.
And I'm like, well, could wejust pick one career and maybe
get an education and pursue thatand then go back for another one
later where you can afford it onyour own?
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
Hint, hint.
SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Hint hint.
And so she did.
She got her degree, and nowshe's a vet tech and she
absolutely loves it.
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
So, yeah.
And then my third daughter,she's in the Navy, she's a
corpsman.
Um, and their ranking and theirtheir titles are still a little
foreign to me.
And I'm like, well, what doesthat mean?
What is that?
Is that like an E5?
And she goes, Yes, it's it'slike that.
Um, and she's stationed over inBethesda.
(33:03):
It was funny because her firststation um was Hawaii, and
that's where my husband was.
He hated it.
He hated Hawaii.
And I remember looking at himgoing, Are you crazy?
How can you hate Hawaii?
And he goes, I hated it.
And um I went to vacation in themain island, and I'm like, I
don't know what you're talkingabout.
There was none of that problemthere.
(33:24):
And he's talking about like thehomeless and the dogs and all
that stuff.
Well, when my daughter we wentto visit her, he goes, I'm never
going back to Hawaii over mydead body.
And I'm like, Well, I think yourdead body arrived.
We're going.
So get on board.
And we ended up going back, andhe was a hesitant, but he
enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:40):
Right.
Well, it's different when youdon't live there.
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:43):
My son was stationed in Hawaii as well, and he like
he said it was great for likethe first six months.
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
And then it just sucked the rest of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
Yeah, because you can't go anywhere.
I mean, you have to island hop,that's costly.
Everything's costly.
And once you see it, you'relike, all right, next.
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
Well, my daughter's a beach person, so it was
perfect for her.
And um, she ended up gettingmarried while she was down there
and ended up co-locating over toMaryland, and she got stationed
in Bethesda, and it's different.
She it starts getting coldbecause I think I miss Hawaii.
SPEAKER_02 (34:17):
She she can always go back though, right?
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yep.
Well, now she's talking aboutItaly, and now I've got a
grandson, and I'm like, You'renot taking my grandson to Italy.
I'm like, she's like, Well, if Igo, I have to go.
I'm like, Well, don't make it achoice if you don't have to.
Right.
Being selfish.
SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
Maybe it'll maybe they'll be good for him, though.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
Well, I mean, it's selfish on my part, 100%.
But I think it would beabsolutely phenomenal experience
for her and my grandson that youotherwise don't get in a normal
career.
I mean, if she's a surge techoutside of it working for a
hospital, they're not gonna shipher to Italy, they're not gonna
ship her to Hawaii, they're notgonna ship her to Guam.
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
In Japan, I mean, the experience that you get is
it's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (34:59):
It is.
It is the old what's the oldadage, join the navy, see the
world.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah.
I I enjoyed my time there.
It's funny, you were talkingabout how um I just want to go
back a little bit.
You're talking about how likeyou didn't understand like the
ranks and all that stuff in theNavy, right?
I re I remember um I was a firecontrolman in the Navy, which
means I worked on guided missilecomputer systems, right?
Okay, and so my mom would telleveryone that she knew that I
(35:24):
was a firefighter.
Yeah, my son's a firefighter,and I finally had to say, look,
mom, no, I don't put fires out,I start them on other people's
ships.
SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
I thought that's what it was too, and she had to
correct me.
Why are you fire control?
Yeah.
I was like, that stuff doesn'tmake any sense to me.
SPEAKER_02 (35:41):
No, none of it does.
None of it does.
But uh yeah, well, that's thenavy for you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:45):
Well, even the acronyms of you know what we
used to call like your LBE,right?
Um, in the Army.
Um, my daughter was trying toexplain to me even today's
version of what the LBE wasthen.
The first time she was talkingabout her flick.
I'm like, what the heck's aflick?
I'm like, explain that.
And she starts explaining it.
I'm like, oh, your LBE.
(36:06):
She goes, What's an LBE?
So we ended up having like thissix-month conversation going
back and forth of just trying tounderstand each other's
acronyms.
And I had to compare it to ouracronyms versus her acronyms to
understand what she was talkingabout.
Now I've got a pretty good ideaof what she's what she's
referencing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
But then my daughter, when she's through the
the Navy acronyms in there, I'mlike, I give up.
I I can't keep up with it.
So I'm just gonna sit here andgo, Yeah, I get it.
I know what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
Smile and nod, right?
Smile and nod.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Sure, I'll figure it out someday.
unknown (36:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:35):
So now how old's your grandson?
I can't I can't leave the factthat you're a grandma of that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
He is four months.
SPEAKER_02 (36:42):
Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (36:43):
He's just a little peanut and he is the happiest
little clam ever.
Just I mean, he is constantlyhappy.
She got a good one.
SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
Very easy.
SPEAKER_02 (36:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Well, she knows she can always kind of ship him over
to grandma if she's got to gosomeplace, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
I keep begging.
SPEAKER_02 (36:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
And I'm like, you know, I can I can I can put in
an AWA to go work remote once amonth.
And she's like, Well, we mayhave to talk about that.
I'm like, I'm just there tohelp.
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
That's right.
It's all about you, not me.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Right.
You need to go go hang out withyour friends, go work out.
I'm just there to hold the baby.
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
Right.
There you go.
So you're 18 years at yourcurrent job.
Sounds like you're loving it.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
I am.
SPEAKER_02 (37:24):
At least that's the reports I get.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
And uh the kids are kind of getting out on their
own.
And um, you're recently an emptynester or close to it.
SPEAKER_00 (37:33):
Close to it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
Yeah, and uh your husband's probably gonna retire
sometime.
SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Two and a half years.
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Yeah, not too distant future.
Like, what is what does thefuture look like for you?
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
That is a good question.
Um, so I didn't say my grand myson is out also, he moved to
Indiana, took a job down there.
So he does construction, andwe're looking at potentially
building um the next home.
We've looked anywhere from goingup to Drummond Island up in the
UP.
Oh very secluded.
(38:04):
I mean, I'm not a people person,but I do need a little people.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:08):
And I like it, and it's beautiful.
I love the upper peninsula, butI'm not a fan of negative temps
and a ton of snow.
SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
That is not the place for you then.
SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
It isn't.
Uh but every once in a whilehe's like, You sure you don't
want to go?
And I'm like, I'm on the fence.
I mean, I could go.
I don't know if it's I'm notsold yet.
Um, I don't like Florida.
I mean, I'm at that stage whereI'm constantly warm.
So Florida is definitely off thetable, but something in the
middle.
So he gets the the opportunityto retire in two and a half
(38:41):
years.
Um, whether he does or hedoesn't, I don't know.
It just depends on theenvironment and where he's at.
Um, but at that stage in thegame, if he can, I mean, I've
got to wait until I can retire.
So I'm looking at maybe another10 years.
And maybe getting some propertysomewhere in between, down like
(39:02):
Tennessee, Kentucky is kind ofwhere we're looking at.
But both of us are gonna beneeding an extra hobby to keep
ourselves occupied.
SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
And so you don't kill each other.
SPEAKER_00 (39:11):
Yes.
And I mean, he he's a bookworm,and um, he teaches on the side.
I mean, he teaches at well, hewas he's teaching at Siena,
which is now closing down.
Um, but he also teaches at umJackson College and he teaches
uh psychology because he's alsogot his PhD in behavioral psych.
SPEAKER_02 (39:30):
Okay.
Um, he is not the cop I want toget pulled over by.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
We don't.
The reason he did it was becausehe was a detective.
Yeah.
So now he can interview youreally well, and he's an expert
witness.
Awesome.
Um, but he uh I I don't know ifhe'll continue with teaching, so
it kind of depends on what whatpath he takes because he'll be
there before me.
Um myself, I am gonna learn howto golf better.
(39:57):
And depending on where my kidsall land, you know, do some
traveling.
SPEAKER_02 (40:01):
Yeah.
Well, as long as you're still inthis area, uh Alexis and I will
be happy to help you.
SPEAKER_00 (40:05):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
My golf game sucks.
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
So well, she's the one that helped me.
I mean, she actually tweakedjust little minor things in such
a way that I'm like, oh, I knowwhat you're saying.
It was like the light bulb wentoff, and I'm like, it worked.
Oh my god, I got the ball offthe ground.
SPEAKER_02 (40:22):
Maybe I should be more appreciative of her help.
Maybe, maybe I'll take a cuefrom you and do that.
We'll see what happens.
So, do you think that there'sthings that you learned in your
time in the military that havehelped you with what you're
doing now?
SPEAKER_00 (40:35):
Oh, yes.
Um, I can be very squirrely.
I mean, it's one of the reasonsI actually got my office set up
the way I do.
Um, because you can startle me,because I'll either hyperfocus
or I'm watching everything goingon over here and I'm not paying
attention to what I'm doinghere.
Um, and I didn't have a lot ofstructure growing up.
My parents weren't big onforcing you to sit down to your
(40:57):
homework and being verymethodical.
Um, and that is one big thingthat I took away from it.
And I think because I I wascraving it and I got it, I
didn't let it go.
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
So I got a little obsessive with it.
Um, but it was it was good forme.
I needed that.
And the structure keeps meorganized, the structure keeps
me going, structure keeps me dradriven.
Um I think it opened up mypersonality too, because I was a
little bit more of a a quietwallflower.
Um and I was afraid of askingcertain questions, afraid of you
(41:35):
know upsetting somebody,offending somebody.
And then after getting, youknow, through school of
realizing that I have a voiceand you can like it or not, and
your feelings are your feelings,and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to
offend you, but it is what itis.
Yeah, it took me a while, evenafter getting out of the
service, how to apply that, andthen it just it it worked and it
(41:59):
was great.
So now I feel a lot moreempowered than I did when I was
a teenager or my early 20s.
SPEAKER_02 (42:06):
Okay.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
I was gonna say I don't I don't peg you as the the
quiet type, honestly, but I wasa talker, but I was a wallflower
in certain situations, kind oflike that antisocial piece.
SPEAKER_01 (42:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Um I never shut up.
But it was just random things,and I talk your ear off, and I
would just sit back and thenkind of watch.
I didn't join in things is thethe big thing.
That's why I ran because it waseasy.
But the skill sets definitelytransfer into my job now.
I mean, being patient, beingable to listen, being able to
(42:41):
listen to different people, heartheir ideas, talk them through
it, being able to research,being able to follow your rules.
You remember that littlehandbook that we all kept in our
pockets?
Oh, yeah.
Love that.
I still have mine.
SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Do you?
I do.
Mine's lost.
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
And I mean, I wouldn't be doing the work that
I'm doing as well as I am if Ididn't have those skills.
I'd probably be an artist, whichI wouldn't have been very good
at at because that was the onlything I could do at the time.
SPEAKER_02 (43:13):
That's a big that's a big difference.
SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
That was a big difference.
SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (43:17):
Well, we've covered a lot in the last 45 minutes
hour.
Um, is there anything we haven'ttalked about that you want to
talk about?
SPEAKER_00 (43:25):
No, I mean, I've I've literally given you my
entire family history.
It's kind of funny just hearingit and saying it and being asked
it.
So um, I'm good.
SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
All right.
Well, we've got one lastquestion for you.
SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (43:38):
So, you know, years from now when someone's
listening to this, so I alwayslike to think, you know, a
hundred years from now, whenneither one of us are sitting
here, um, what would you likepeople to take away from this?
What message would you have forpeople listening to you right
now?
SPEAKER_00 (43:54):
Don't be afraid to go against the grain of even
your loved ones, if it's achoice that you want to pursue.
I think sometimes we want toplease our family to the nth
degree, and we sacrificeourselves sometimes in the the
mixed.
Um I think that by taking thethe chance that people will come
(44:18):
around, kind of like my mother.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
And even myself with my daughters, um it all works
out.
And it's definitely worthpursuing than not pursuing it
and regretting it.
SPEAKER_02 (44:31):
All right.
Well, thanks for that.
And thanks for coming out afterwork and hanging out with me for
an hour.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
I love it.
It was fun.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (44:37):
You're welcome.
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