September 23, 2025 • 63 mins
Jim Lynch's life journey unfolds like a living history book of post-WWII America. From his childhood in Brooklyn during wartime blackouts to his enlistment in the newly-formed Air Force at just 17, Lynch's story captures the spirit of a generation that shaped modern America.
The centerpiece of his military career reads like a Cold War thriller—a classified mission to the North Pole in the early 1950s. "It was like going to the moon," Lynch recalls, describing harrowing flights over Arctic ice, survival in 24-hour daylight, and the intense secrecy surrounding their operations. This remarkable chapter alone provides a rare glimpse into operations few Americans have ever experienced.
Lynch's path repeatedly intersected with pivotal historical moments. His service in President Kennedy's funeral Honor Guard offers an intimate perspective on national grief: "The tears were coming off this Marine's cheek like a faucet." These firsthand observations from someone who witnessed such profound American moments are both moving and historically significant.
After his military service, Lynch built a successful 42-year home improvement business while maintaining his connections to Washington's corridors of power. His management of a suite at Capitol Center arena brought him face-to-face with celebrities and dignitaries—from Billy Joel and George Michael to Saudi royalty and high-ranking government officials including Colin Powell. His stories about these encounters reveal the extraordinary connections possible in an ordinary American life.
Now at 92, Lynch continues his tradition of service through veteran honor guards and community involvement in Michigan. His parting wisdom resonates with timeless truth: "Take an opportunity when you get it... Don't let life pass you by." Listen and be inspired by a life that spans nearly a century of American transformation, told by someone who didn't just witness history—he lived it.
www.veteransarchives.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Today is Monday, september 22nd 2025.
We're talking with Jim Lynch,who served in the United States
Air Force.
So good afternoon, jim, goodafternoon.
Thanks for having me out today.
It's an honor, my honor as well.
I really enjoyed lunch, by theway.
Thank you for that.
So we'll just get startedpretty easy.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I was born in Brooklyn, new York, at Bay Ridge
Hospital.
Glenn, where were you born?
I?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
was born in Brooklyn, new York, at Bay Ridge Hospital
.
Okay, and did you live inBrooklyn most of your life then,
as a child anyway?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, I did, until I joined the Air Force on August
28, 1951.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, Well, let's talk a little bit about growing
up.
Did you have brothers andsisters?
I have three sisters.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We're all RNs throughout the years and I have
a brother who also served in theAir Force.
He's eight years younger thanme.
Okay, and where'd you kind offall in the pecking order?
I'm the middle one, two olderand two younger.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
All right, so you fall in that middle child
category, yeah, okay.
Well, tell me a little bitabout what it was like growing
up with all your brothers andsisters in New York.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It was.
My father worked for the NewHaven Railroad, but he actually
didn't work on the trains, heworked on the tugboats.
He was an engineer and theyused to pull barges from New
Jersey into New York Harbor,which is very busy and it was
hard to get trains into.
So many only so many slept andI would go on board the vessel
(02:33):
with them sometimes and I hadrun of the tugboat up and down
the river over to New Jersey.
But once the war broke out,world War II, it was restricted,
very tight security and we werenot allowed on the boats
anymore.
And then, world War II, thingswere pretty different.
(02:54):
Things were rationed andblackouts.
You had to have all your lightsout, you had to have blackout
curtains and they had air-raidwardens.
So it was really different.
Living under World War IIcircumstances.
Yeah, what about your mom?
What did she do?
My mom, yeah, was she ahomemaker?
She was a homemaker, but myfather died of an accident early
(03:16):
on, just at the start of thewar.
It had nothing to do with thewar and my mother had a
difficult time to keep us fivekids together with the rationing
and then the war, andfinancially it was very
difficult.
So we had a tough time forthose years until Olga grown up
and went on with our careers.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, and so what was school like for you then?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I went to grade school and propial school and
then I went to a vocationalschool in New York City and I
decided to a vocational schoolin New York City and I decided
to join the Air Force.
I didn't really like New Yorkit's so crowded and I didn't
like running the subways, and soI joined the Air Force when I
was 17, about 17 and a half.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, so you graduated high school, though,
and then went into the Air Force.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Okay, talk to me a little bit about your decision
to join the Air Force.
Why the Air Force?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, it was really a brand new service and it just
sounded really interesting.
A lot of people thought we weregreyhound bus drivers with the
uniform.
I heard that a lot when I wasfirst joined.
But it was an honor.
And going through basictraining and the one thing that
sticks in my mind is when wefinally learned how to march and
we stood there that eveninglate afternoon and we stood
(04:31):
there and saluted the flag and Ireally felt like God, I'm part
of a tremendous team here.
It was such an honor and Iremember it's vivid in my memory
the honor of standing andsaluting the United States flag.
It was just a great honor.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
There's something about that?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, there really is .
You really feel very patriotic.
I left basic training.
I was at Sampson Air Force Base.
It was an old Navy base upstateNew York on Lake Seneca.
It got very, very cold so weflew down on a private aircraft
(05:08):
and we flew us down to ShepherdAir Force Base in Wichita Falls,
texas, and I went to aircraftmechanics school there and I was
fascinated with that.
One of the first airplanes Icrawled through was a B-29, and
I went up through the tunnel.
It was a tunnel to get to theback section and I went in the
tail gunner's section.
It was all they'd have heavygreen quilting fabric there as a
(05:30):
padding and it was allbloodstained and I said, oh my
God, some poor soul bought itand he was because nobody could
rescue him Back in the tailgunner.
But we worked on some jets andreciprocating engines B-25s, 26s
and T-33s.
So they left and were up toKilmer, new Jersey, and we were
(05:56):
there for almost a month waitingto go out.
It was really tough and thebarracks.
I got there late one night andI was trying to find a bunk and
there was only one bunkavailable.
It was in a private room withinthe old World War II barracks
and there was a tech sergeantthere.
He had been home on leave,emergency leave, and he was
(06:17):
going back to Germany and I saidcan I use this bunk?
Because he was a high-rankingNCO compared to me, one striper.
So he said sure.
So all the other bunks werefull.
So day after day we keptgetting KP.
It was really difficult and onan army base we were so busy and
we were just filthy, dirty fromworking and every day KP.
(06:37):
So a lot of the guys wereannoyed by this.
So they got a petition going.
They're going to sign apetition and this tech sergeant
gave me the best advice I'veever had in my life.
He said don't sign that becauseit's like signing, it's like a
mutiny.
So I said I'm not going to signthis.
Oh, you like this?
No, I don't care.
So anyway, the next day off toKP, we all go in Notice
(06:59):
throughout the day, these guysdisappearing.
I got back to the barracksafter KP.
Every mattress was rolled up.
There was not a personal itemin that barracks except my bunk
and that Texar.
So I guess they were arrested,I mean court-martialed, for a
mutiny.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Definitely not a democracy, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
right had my attention, yeah, that was great
advice that he gave you.
So then we were in New Jerseyand went over to the waterfront.
We boarded a ship that PrivateJoseph Aldez, a troop ship, and
we sailed up the North Atlanticand saw a lot of whales and
porpoise and we pulled into StJohn's, Newfoundland, and we
(07:40):
stayed there the night or donesome chores there and then went
over to the Navy base and weflew over to Ernest Harmon where
I was assigned in Newfoundland,Spent a couple months there and
then I volunteered and had anopportunity to go on a top
secret mission to the North Poleand I said I'll go and it was
(08:03):
fascinating.
It was like going to the moon.
It was 73 years to the moon.
It was 73 years ago.
So, yeah, Well, how did?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
so did they just say, hey, we have this top secret
mission, who wants to go?
I mean, how did they, how didhow did the selection work for
that?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, there was a line chief and a lot of guys.
The Southerners really used torib the guys from New York, you
know, and and I had a realstrong New York that Brooklyn
twang.
But I wouldn't let them get mygoat and I just said, oh yeah,
that's the way they all talk,they all talk funny and that's
you know.
Anyway, I just humored them.
So he kind of got to like meand he said you want to go on
(08:36):
this?
It'd be interesting.
So I said it's top secret.
Okay, well, we had secretsecret clearance.
So off I went and I took noclass A uniform, just fatigues
and Arctic clothing.
But then we had a special issueof kind of boots and gloves
when you go past the ArcticCircle.
So we stayed in a.
The barracks looked like arefrigerator, plastic handle
(08:59):
doors and it was very tightquarters and you only had 500
gallons of water per day becausethey had no plumbing underneath
and you had to conserve onwater because you didn't take
five-minute showers.
It's quick lathered up, hoseoff and that's it.
And the water that you showeredand brushed your teeth with
that's the water that flushedthe toilets and you had to pump
(09:20):
the toilet.
That's just the way it workedWow.
And the captain said who has adriver's license?
I had a military, firstdriver's license I ever had in
my life.
And he said go up to Motorpooland check out the biggest truck
they got.
So I went up and got a stakebody and I come back.
He said okay, now you take allthe guys to chow, you come back
and you stay in the barracks.
(09:41):
You restrict it because we'reon standby as soon as we get
communications to North Pole.
We're going to fly in theseprefab buildings.
So I said it's chow time andwe'd jump in the truck and I'd
say, okay, it's time to go.
And so, and Motor Pool keptcalling and said bring that
truck in for inspection.
I said no.
My captain said don't leavehere, you better bring it out.
(10:01):
We'd bring the truck back andwe'd jump in, we'd off, go to
North Pole and I'd take the keywith me and I'd go right on up
to them.
We had trouble with the landinggear and they opened the door
and there was a C-119 that hasclamshell doors.
So this is on the flight, aflight to Nord.
(10:22):
Nord is the Danish word fornorth.
So there was no equipment oranything, it was just little
sheds for buildings.
That's all they had right onthe ice.
So they opened the door andsaid you're going to have to
bail out because we're loadedlike we were.
If they landed without the gearit would rip the belly out and
(10:45):
we'd be killed.
But I didn't like the idea.
I was dress warming up, Ididn't have a weapon of any kind
Right, so we're circling aroundand he said who's the mechanic?
I said I am.
So it was seven of us.
I didn't know the guys, butanyway, he said give me a hand.
(11:06):
We had to cross these two lines.
If you cross, thread them, I'mgoing to throw you out anyway.
So better get it right then.
Huh, so, so anyway, I did, uh,get it and he said hit the gear.
Well, they, the gear, went down, but they didn't get a cure
indication.
So we, the gear was not verystable, we weren't sure.
So they landed real high andthe load shifted some and if it
(11:27):
came all the way back it wouldhave crushed us all.
But they got it down and welanded right on the ice and we
had a hand pump what fuel theyhad left, because we were almost
out of fuel.
And there's no when you go toNord.
There's no alternate oremergency stop.
It's there and no place on theice.
So we managed to get some fuelin it and sent them on their way
(11:50):
, and we spent about four orfive days there out of food.
All they had was pumpkin pie toeat, and I do still like
pumpkin pie.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
So basically they couldn't fly you back just
because of the condition of theaircraft, so they just left you
there.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, they were concerned that they could make
it and they didn't want to loseseven more lives.
Right, and they had a crew ofpilot, co-pilot, flight engineer
and, I guess, a navigator.
But it's hard to navigate.
Seventy-three years ago at theNorth Pole, a magnetic compass
just spins and the magnetic pole, I understand, is 200 miles
from the actual pole andnavigating is tough.
(12:24):
And then the Russians keptsending radio signals to block
our airways.
So that's why we couldn't justsay, oh, we're going to go today
, because we had to know whatthe weather was, because we
didn't have enough fuel to flythere, and say, oh, we can't
land if we come back BecauseThule Air Force Base, which was
just built in 1952, was 1,000miles away.
(12:44):
And that was quite an experience.
And there was no camerasallowed.
I had a nice new Kodak Retinacamera.
I just bought no cameras, nopictures, no alcoholic of
anything and never got paid.
No haircuts, no one shaved, itwas just.
You had your parka.
You noticed the fur on theparka.
You would zip it up real tightand then you look through the
(13:05):
fur that's to help the Eskimoscome up with that and of course
you get snow blind.
And we were there during thelight season.
So when you go to chow hall yousay, do I think it's morning or
night, so I don't breakfast?
So you serve breakfast anddinner whatever you felt like
that's what you'd eat, so thesun never set right?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
No, it never set the whole time you were there.
Not at all.
What did they have you doingthere?
Pardon me, what did they haveyou doing there?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Just manual work.
You know, I said something.
The guy that built Thule, hewas a retired Navy commander and
all I know his name wasBlowtorch Morgan and he was a
real creative guy.
The story about him theydropped a bulldozer at one time
when he was building Thule andit just the chute's, ripped and
(13:51):
destroyed it.
So anyway, they brought anotherone and enough parachutes to
get down and he needed a sparkplug for something and he made a
spark plug out of a piece ofbroom handle and coat hanger and
jammed it in there, got it towork.
But he was a real creative guy.
But he called all the shots.
He was a civilian now but theybrought him out of civilian and
(14:11):
I said something about some food.
He said, just go chop some ice,we need some water, and I'd chop
ice and put it in this old milkcan.
You had to be smaller to get inthere and we'd put on a burner
and a hot plate, yeah, and sothere wasn't much to do but just
stay warm and you didn't get amedal if you got frostbitten.
No, you were governmentproperty and we learned a lot
(14:34):
about you.
Know how to stay healthy.
I mean, just eat properly, youknow, and no alcohol at all, and
not even to be constipated,because that can affect.
And you learned how to alwayskeep your head covered and your
hands, because people say, well,my head's not cold, well, your
body will work to keep your headwarm, so that can then send
(14:56):
more heat to your hands and alsooh, okay, so really cold
weather survival?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yes, yeah, how long were you?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
there.
Well, I was in and out ofNewfoundland, labrador and
Greenland for two years.
Okay, now we also got I'd haveto go to mainland.
Canada sometimes to fix anairplane.
If American airplanes had aproblem in Canada they wouldn't
fix it, they would send for us.
So they'd send me.
So I got to know this SergeantYost, an old South Carolina man.
(15:25):
He'd say go get your buddyelectrician.
Another guy from Brooklyn, hesaid go fix that airplane.
So we'd go over and have to fixa C-54, and they were in no
rush to fix it, it was like acountry club.
They even had a still on thebase there, really.
And I said, come on, we've gotto get it.
There was no hangar big enoughfor the airplane.
So, and finally the weather.
I said you know, lieutenantReese, first lieutenant, I said
(15:47):
I've got to get back.
And he said no, no, no, relax.
So anyway, we finally fixed it.
I had a liquid like on theHamilton hydraulic prop on
number three engine and therewas a mag drop on the little
problem with it.
So we fixed that and got backand the day we land my crew was
on duty.
I said, oh God, I'm going tohave to work then.
And he said I'm glad you hitwith short-handed.
(16:09):
So this lieutenant says to thesergeant does this man work for
you?
Yes, sir.
He says well, he's done anexceptional job.
If you could see him give himoff today, he said okay, all.
But then sometimes seaplanes inLabrador they had some air-sea
rescues SA-16s, a twin-engineseaplane and they used to
(16:30):
practice saltwater landings andsometimes they'd get in trouble
and one of them got a prop stuckin reverse so all they could do
was back up.
So they sent us out by crashboat in the ocean and so they
had to get back to the base tocover the base.
So they left us on the seaplaneand we were a few days getting
that fixed and then getting backto my base and then my base was
(16:52):
socked in so we floated aroundin the water all night bouncing
around.
Then we took on so much waterbecause there's what they call
venturis and we must have taxiedor tried to take off for the 30
miles.
Just wah, wah, wah.
And finally the captain said Iwas a skinny little kid.
Then he said get in.
The head of the tail of theaircraft was where the latrine
(17:14):
was the head and there wasanother hatch.
He said get back in there.
And I'm crawling this littlespace and the cables are cutting
across my neck back and forthand they tried to get enough
weight down to break thatsuction.
They finally got off and gotback.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Stuffed you all the way in the back of that plane
just to take off.
Huh, yeah, yeah.
So when you finished in thatarea, where did you go from
there?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I come back to Andrews Air Force Base in August
of 54, and I had a year tofinish up my hitch so they put
me on transit maintenance andalso one of our jobs was to take
care of the historic aircraftthat was President Roosevelt's
Air Force One.
They called it the Sacred Cowthe Secret Service gave it that
nickname, and also the Enola Gay.
(17:56):
I used to go up and sit in thecockpit and I thought what was
that like to punch that button?
It was 150,000 people killedinstantly, I think, and it was
always a strange feeling.
I come back one day and Tomsays there's an oil leak on
number two engine.
Go fix it.
So I brought an aero stand outthere and it was a pushrod leak
and I fixed it.
And then General MacArthur'sold B-17 was out there.
(18:17):
The first jet bomber was a B-43,the strangest-looking aircraft,
two different-sized engines init.
Really, yeah, never done muchon it.
We had to make sure they weretied down.
There was no cats sometimes toget in there, birds to make
nests.
You had to make sure all thetie downs were good because you
had them secured to the ground.
There was a couple, there was aP-82, I think it was two F-51s
(18:39):
put together and there was acouple of Navy aircraft over
there and they were waiting.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Don't see.
Yes, yes, yeah.
I can't even imagine seeing theEnola Gay.
I mean, that would be to sitthere where the pilot sat.
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I'd sit in the cockpit, and I think that was in
1954, the fall of 1954, and Ithink, oh my God, I didn't
realize then how historical thatwas.
But they dropped that bomb.
That was the first bomb, andthen the boxcar was the second
B-29, and it dropped the secondbomb, and the first one was
(19:22):
Nagasaki, and then that's theone that they dropped the bomb.
That was the second bomb andHirohito still wasn't going to
resign, right.
So finally, they did have athird bomb, which I just reached
.
I have a picture of that.
It was on the Internet and Iguess they finally realized we
don't need another third bomb.
But they didn't want to hitTokyo, I guess because it was
(19:43):
such a yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It was a yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
But they say it saved a million lives men, american
lives.
So but yeah, that was quite anexperience.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So you finished out your time in the Air Force at
Andrews, yes.
So what did you do when you got?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
out.
I took a job in civilian lifefor about six months and then I
heard about the National Guardhiring.
So I went down to the AirNational Guard and I signed up
and I'd be paying the crew chiefon F-86 Sabre jets North
American made and I'd done thatfor a few years and then I went
(20:23):
in and worked on inspections andthen Now, was this all right
there at Andrews still?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Pardon me, was this right at Andrews still?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
At Andrews.
Oh, yeah, okay okay.
We'd go to a summer camp down atTravis Field in Georgia,
savannah, georgia, back andforth, but I was full-time in
uniform that whole time.
Everybody thought I wasmilitary active duty, but they
didn't understand.
I said no, I just worked forthe Guard.
I was a civil service employeeand then the weekend warrior,
(20:50):
Working for the Guard in DC, wegot called to active duty.
I've been deputized with allthe inaugurals every four years,
so the different presidentsthat were served, I'd be walking
a beat.
And then President Kennedy'sassassination.
Of course I was in the HonorGuard for his funeral, which was
such an honor.
In fact 125 of us showed up andthey said we only can have 90.
(21:15):
And I said you can drop out,you'll still be paid.
Nobody moved.
So he said all right, from thisrank over, you're out of here.
So they just couldn't march.
We didn't have room for them.
We marched behind the Navy bandand I've been in a lot of
parades but never in a funeral.
And a funeral is so differentbecause it's such a slower
cadence and you just can'tforget for a moment.
(21:36):
And the Navy band playedmagnificently.
We didn't miss a beat or asound, and the sound was
bouncing off the buildings, itwas like your head was inside of
a stereo.
And as we walked, marchedtowards the White House, they
took the caisson up the drivewayfor the White House for
Kennedy's last trip to the WhiteHouse, and the Marines were
(21:56):
standing with port arms that'swhere you hold your rifle, out
in front of you, and they wereshoulder to shoulder and I was
on an outside rank, and youdon't turn your head, of course,
but I could turn my eyes and Ilooked over and I could hear in
front of me.
I heard a murmur, oh God, ohGod.
And I couldn't.
Why are they saying oh God?
And I saw this Marine.
(22:17):
The tears were coming off hischeek like a faucet and it just
comes out and said oh my God.
And all the way down the line,as they would see it, they'd say
oh God, oh God, oh God.
Just saddest thing, it's just.
I mean that's so vivid in mymemory, people, it's so vivid in
my memory.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
People loved John F Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
The people really loved him.
They did.
They loved John F Kennedy?
Yeah, he was, and of course hecalled me back to active duty
for the Berlin crisis in 61 to62.
But that was, as I said, thephoto lab come under my
jurisdiction and his personalphotographer was Wayne Sherwin,
who I keep in contact with allthese years and that's why he
(22:56):
supplied me some of thesepictures I showed you earlier
from the funeral.
But yeah, and it was cold.
They said leave the overcoatson the bus.
And it was cold that day.
And they marched across the14th Street Bridge and you're
supposed to march across thebridge route step, and I could
feel the bridge swaying, but itreally was a really cold day.
(23:19):
And when they went to a churchin town I forgot the name of the
church, a Catholic church.
Of course.
They had a mass and everybody,the dignitaries, all, walked in
that funeral procession.
They didn't ride limousines.
And here we are standing at aparade rest and there's in front
of me Charles de Gaulle,president of France, haile
Selassie, the Emperor ofEthiopia, ted Kennedy, sergeant
(23:43):
Shriver, now President Johnson,and all of us.
I said, oh my God, I've got toreach out and touch him.
It was just part of such ahistorical moment.
Yeah, it was really sad it was,and people sobbing.
I worked my final years with theguard.
(24:04):
I was in three years inmaintenance control, so I was in
charge of maintenance on afighter squad and on the way
home because I knew and I taxiedaround Air Force One many times
.
You know Kennedy and people.
You'd see people stop theirsteering, holding their steering
wheel, sobbing and tears comingto their eyes.
But the one time when I wastaxing around this, of course
(24:26):
before his death I was taxingaround and Andrews has two
runways, parallel 1028s, thewest and east, and I was in the
taxiway between and holdingshort aircraft coming and going
and I heard Air Force One sayAndrews Tower, this is Air Force
One, we're ready to taxi.
And a young fellow at the towerI could tell he was young in
his voice.
He said you'll have to holdshort, we have aircraft on final
(24:48):
.
And the pilot very calmly comesback.
This negative Air Force Onedoes not hold Roger, I
understand, comes back.
This negative Air Force Onedoes not hold Roger, I
understand.
And he proceeded to taxi.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
He didn't know who he was talking to at first, did he
?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
No no.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Oh my gosh.
So how long did you serve inthe Air Guard?
Ten years, okay, and all atAndrews Air Force Base.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, although we traveled a lot I mean I've been
out to McCord Air Force Base andFort Lewis and out in the West
Coast and Savannah, georgia, acouple to Alpena, michigan,
wisconsin, folkfield.
So yeah, I spent a lot of time.
We spent a lot of timetraveling, fixing airplanes and
(25:28):
I once went to Lake Charles,louisiana.
My airplane had nose gearcollapse on a landing so I was
out there to fix it and, being asecurity tight, a sack base,
that was really tight and theyhad a couple of people changed
in a booster pump and didn'tdisconnect the electric leads
and had an explosion.
I guess it must have killedthem but blew the side of the
(25:49):
airplane up.
They had B-47s.
They lost I think seven B-47s.
Wow, and fuel and I don't knowwhat the capacity was, thousands
of gallons and fuel was runningdown like a river and they
evacuated the base because theysaid there was some high-powered
weaponry on it.
Yeah, and when I was in thehangar when it first happened,
(26:10):
the grates and the drain justpopped up out of the explosion.
The concussion was so powerfulthat must have been a little
scary, it was to evacuate a baseyeah.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So you know, you served your time.
You did your active duty andyour reserve time.
So why did you leave the AirNational Guard?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, you know, my wife was home taking care of the
children and we had some healthproblems with the kids and we
were traveling all the time.
We were just living out of aduffel bag.
I might as well have been onactive duty.
It was just getting deputizedfor everything in the Civil
Rights March when Martin LutherKing made his famous speech.
(26:55):
I have a Dream.
I was in the middle of that andwe were concerned.
We didn't know what was goingto happen what turned out to be
a very beautiful and peacefulday.
Yeah, there was a guy NormanRockwell was his name, I think.
He was a radical wacko and theythought he was going to create
a lot of problems.
So they just formed a bigcircle of guardsmen around him
and wouldn't let him do anything.
But it turned out.
The biggest thing I had to dowas treat a lady for first aid.
(27:18):
First aid, she had passed outand scraped up her knee and she
was fine, and it turned out tobe a beautiful day.
But we didn't know what toexpect.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, you just never know and.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I was, you know.
It's just hard, you know,traveling all the time and
trying to, and it's hard on thewife.
A lot of marriages suffered,you know, because we've been
called on so much.
That's what I'm concerned aboutnow.
Things today, the guardsmen aregoing to just wear out, you
know.
You just can't keep holleringwolf Right.
(27:50):
So where did you meet your wife?
On a blind date.
Oh well, tell me about this.
At the barracks at Andrews AirForce Base.
I had about three or fourmonths to finish up my hitch and
it was a roommate, jimmyFalgett.
And Jimmy knew I had a car andhe was dating this girl, mary
(28:11):
Lou Perry.
And he said you want to go on ablind date?
And I said meet her sister, andthat's Rosemarie.
So I said okay, because I had acar.
So we went to a drive-intheater or something and that's
the love sparked and the rest ishistory.
But Jimmy Falgett went off on aninteresting trip.
(28:34):
They were looking for twosenior aircraft mechanics.
The only two in the squadronwas he and I.
You had to be white, catholic,single, high school graduate,
senior aircraft mechanic and youwere going on a special mission
to Spain to serve with theembassy, flying into South
Africa and you got a civilianclothing allowance of $300.
(28:57):
We're back in 1954.
That was a piece of change.
That's a lot of clothes.
Plus you got a re-up bonus andI said I'm in love and I'm not
going.
So he went and I never heardfrom him.
I'd love to know how thatturned out.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Wouldn't it be great to hear his story about that,
wouldn't it?
Yeah?
So how long did you date beforeyou decided to get married?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Well, we met it was probably the fall of 54 at a
little drive-in restaurant andit was just kind of coincidental
I'd seen her there before.
And then Jimmy Falgettintroduced me, so that's how it
all started, and then we weremarriedt introduced me, so
that's how it all started, andthen we were married July 7th of
56, so about a year after wemet.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, been married ever since.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, we've been married 69 years, wow, july 7th.
Yeah, we have four children and15 grandchildren and
great-grandchildren.
So you keep busy these daysthen yeah, I see I'm a volunteer
.
I've been doing funerals nowwith an independent group in
Florida in Marin County,Memorial Honor Guard, and I've
(30:07):
done probably about 500 to 600funerals over the last 10, 12
years.
Wow, and I do them here withthe VFW too.
Okay, I've done Mel Tillis'funeral Honor Guard, of course,
john F Kennedy's.
I saw the pictures from the MelTillis yeah, which is
interesting because I kind ofgrew up with his music, yeah, as
(30:27):
a kid, so I remember that yeahhe was interesting and in his
obituary there was a pamphletmade up and his mom said that
apparently the stuttering workson, I think, the left side of
the brain and singing.
That's why he wouldn't stutterand he would sing.
Yeah, but he was a super guy.
A lot of people in Ocala knewhim and they kept saying I want
(30:47):
to introduce you sometime.
I've seen him in person at aBranson but I never chatted with
him.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, and anyone kind of listening to this who's
never heard of Mel Tillis, theyshould listen to an interview
with him and then listen to himsing, because he had a beautiful
singing voice.
Oh, he did.
He could really sing.
Yeah, yeah yeah, so kind ofgoing back a little bit.
So you're married, you'rehaving kids and it's just time
to not be in the militaryanymore.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, when I was in the military I started a home
improvement business.
She had a nephew or a cousin, Iguess it was, and Jerry was in.
He worked for a homeimprovement company in
Washington DC and we bought ourfirst house and he said do you
want some storm windows?
I said, yeah, I'd love to havesome.
So he hooked me up and I gotsome storm windows.
I said, yeah, I'd love to housethem.
So he hooked me up and I gotsome storm windows and I had a
neighbor up the street wantedsome, said well, I said, jerry,
(31:40):
you got to want some windows.
Okay, so we sold him somewindows and that started my
company.
He said, well, I don't want tobe part of.
He says, I'm moving toCalifornia with my dad, we're
going to raise chinchillas.
I said, okay.
So I kind of got into windowsand doors and I'd done that for,
let's see, 62, 63, 64, 65.
(32:02):
So about four years, almost fiveyears, I was doing it part-time
with the guard, so I sold a lotof the people within the guard
and I started doing more majorthings.
So Vietnam was breathing down myneck and it was tough on the
wife taking care of children andhealth problems they had had
some surgeries and so my timewas up when I got out.
(32:26):
Plus, the money was not verygood.
I mean I was making more moneyfrom my part-time businesses
than I was from my full-time job.
Yeah, so I think I was making$6,700 a year, military and
civilian pay combined, and I wasprobably making $12,000 a year
from my civilian I mean mycompany, general home company.
And then over the years Istumbled into that work at the
(32:50):
Capitol Center where theWashington Bullets now called
the Wizards and the Capitalshockey team, and so I was there
for 20 years and I did a lot ofwork.
So I'd even done a job forHoward Hughes and AT&T Bell,
atlantic World Bank, you know,remax Realty.
So I used to decorate all theskyscrapers, deloitte, tuchin
Ross, the largest accountingfirm.
That was really interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
So your company would decorate those suites, the
boxes, Wall paper, carpet andthen I'd build cabinets.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So I had cabinet makers that would make cabinets
for me and then of course I didwindows and doors and siding and
if it was legal I would tackleit.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, why not, why not?
And you ended up with a suiteyourself right for a while.
Yeah, for 20 years.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
You got to meet a lot of interesting famous people
through that, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, I did.
I allowed B-104 during thethey'd done a fundraiser.
Anyway, I met a lot of starsthat night or that day and so I
set up a little booth and weused to this B-104 was broadcast
.
I think it was broadcast fromNew York, right there at the
(33:57):
booth, you know it was neat.
And then the DC-101, there was aguy by the name of Greaseman a
lot of the young guys loved.
I just thought he was amazing.
He was a character, but anywayhe'd come up and people just
breaking their neck to get upthere.
So he was a good follower.
And then some of them theywould bring up different stars
(34:18):
like Billy Joel would come upone night and I met him and he
was really small I didn't knowhe was so short and he said you
can ask me any question you want.
He says just don't ask me aboutmy voice because I've got a
cold.
He said I sound like RandyDangerfield.
No respect.
And I cracked out, but he wasreally hilarious.
And Lou Gossett came up onetime and I was cooking up hot
(34:39):
dogs.
It was mid-concert, so hejumped in and he had hot dogs
with us.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
He was just a down-to-earth guy.
Wow, hot dogs with Lou Gossettyeah, Wow, that's something.
Yeah, that's something.
Did you meet?
Like I was looking at your wall, you have a lot of famous
people.
I saw Jimmy Page.
Was he in your suite at onetime too?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Well, yeah, we had an awful lot of people and you
made a lot of contacts, likeonce I was invited up to an
auction through the Cap Center.
It was down in Washington DC,that's when I met Jim Brady and
then I bid on some an auction,so it was to be at on stage with
Kate Nally's show.
(35:23):
That was Jane Curtin and SusanSt James.
So my wife and I and myyoungest daughter went up and
we're right up on the stage atthe old Ed Sullivan theater, not
sitting in the seats, we'reright on the stage.
It took four hours to tape onetaping of Kate and Ali and it
goes quite on the set and it wasjust amazing to see it all
transpired.
Yeah, and the Ed SullivanTheater is up on what?
(35:45):
54th Street, and so it wasreally kind of interesting to be
there.
And I met her afterwards.
We had pictures with JaneCurtin, Susan Jane, jane, but
yeah, a lot of stars would comeup and then Prince Bendar used
to use this guy.
He liked security.
They were worried about theirchildren, you know, and never
(36:06):
any picture of them and theyalways had his security people
around him.
But they would come up a lot oftimes to the suite.
They liked that, and his wife,princess Haifa, and the princess
called me when I.
Princess Haifa called me andshe says I want you to take my
two daughters to meet GeorgeMichael.
So it was a couple weeks before.
Well, if you start something inmotion, then so many people get
(36:29):
involved and it falls flat.
It never happens.
So I waited until the night ofthe event.
I called back and I said PrinceBendar, the ambassador of Saudi
Arabia, his two daughters,princess Lula and Princess Nita,
wanted to meet George Michaeltonight.
So they said okay, so I broughtthem backstage.
They always sent one of theirInterpol security guys and they
go back into the private roomand George Michael was so
(36:53):
gracious, very nice, and thegirls were shaking his hand and
they were just like giddy littleteenagers.
Yeah, and with that, oneprincess takes her jacket off.
It's a denim jacket and I don'tknow if you've seen an airbrush
.
They had airbrushes and hisportrait was on this airbrush
and I've seen them inMississippi one time.
They sell for $2,000 to $3,000back, then yeah, and Mississippi
(37:14):
.
One time they sell for $2,000to $3,000 back, then yeah, and
she takes it.
Well, I want you to have myjacket.
And George Mike says, well, Ican't take that from you.
She was so disappointed and Isaid, george, I'm sure if the
princess wants you to have it, Iwould please ask you to take it
.
He said, oh you sure, jim, yeah, and he put it on his arm,
thank you.
She just smiled and she gavehim that beautiful denim jacket.
(37:34):
Wow, and he was so gracious, itwas nice.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
That's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, so for 20 years this was your life then it
really was, because I'd have tosublet it to help pay the bill.
You know Right, and I wouldn'tdo individual tickets
Corporations, I'd get likePepsi-Cola one night.
They were sponsoring this KennyRogers concert, so I said sure.
(37:59):
So they said let's go backstageand meet Kenny Rogers.
Okay.
So we went backstage and metKenny Rogers.
He was real famous, with noautographs, posed for pictures
and we're posing for picturesand he's Guys were jumping and
putting hope fingers.
I stopped fooling around.
I didn't know it was the OakRidge boys.
Oh no, the Oak Ridge boys werejust horsing around us.
I didn't even recognize them.
(38:20):
Yeah, those guys are funny.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Oh yeah, I didn't realize how funny.
I saw them live and they'regreat.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, but it's amazing the stars that you see
and run across.
But it was interesting 20 yearsand it just got so costly.
I just couldn't afford itanymore.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
And then this whole time you were running your home
improvement business my ownbusiness.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
But I did a lot of work in the building for them,
decorating for the wallpaper,and you learned all about
carpeting, wallpaper andcabinets.
And then it would branch outlike the arenas have their
tickets printed on a machinecalled a Boca.
A Boca is a company and the wayI understand it, they charge a
nickel a ticket.
They don't sell you the machine, they just rent it to you a
(39:03):
nickel a ticket and they have acounter.
So the ones that they had at theCapitol Center and they were
overheating.
They'd got new machines andthey put them on the old stand.
Well, they took the cowling offand the air wasn't getting, so
they were overheating.
So they said we need a newcabinet.
So I said okay.
So I went over and I workedwith the people that worked with
them.
You know.
I said where do you adjust them?
How high, how far, how fast Doyou need wheels?
(39:26):
And they explained everythingto me.
And Do you have to know?
You have a locket, because thecardstock, the printers, that's
like money, because somebodycould type up there.
So I designed, I finally, and Icalled my camera guy We've got
to work tonight, we work tillmidnight, make and I brought the
prototype, brought it in.
They said that's great, we need52 of them, 52?
(39:47):
So what held me up?
I finally got them and Chicagowas kind of the headquarters for
(40:34):
hardware and I needed casters.
Well, that's over 400, I mean200 casters.
So they finally got them and weshipped them.
So I just kept delivering andthey just kept and I'd done that
for about two years.
Wow, it's kind of funny thethings you get into Right right.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So you ran your business as well for 20 years.
Is that how long you were inthe?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I had my business for 42 years, 42 years.
I shut it down in August of2004.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Okay, so you were in the same area for 42 years then.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yes, the whole time In Southern Maryland, just
outside of Washington DC.
I moved to Southern Marylandbut I kept the business going
for 52 years, never declared aloss, never got big, just stayed
small.
Just the KISS principle keep itsimple, stupid Right it seems
to work.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah Right, absolutely yeah.
So what did you do when youclosed up shop?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Well, we moved up to Michigan so we had a waterfront
property and I think I paid $155.
It was right on the PatuxentRiver.
It was a good buy.
I got a bargain on it and Isold it for $700.
So we cleared about a half amillion.
And there was a tax where afterage 62, you didn't have to pay
(41:57):
capital gains, which reallyhelped us to retire because I
did have money set aside in IRAs.
So I just shut the business down.
I thanked General Holmes andthat's it.
Wow, when I selected the name,if a guy opens a business, well
it's a Charlie Jones windowcompany.
Well, that's all Charlie Jonesprobably sells.
(42:20):
And so I thought I'm going tobranch into real estate.
So General Home could have beenreal estate.
So over the years I did sellfence, carpeting, windows, doors
, shutters, siding, and thensometimes I get involved in a
bullet who owned a companycalled.
I'll think of it.
Anyway, he was working on videoconferencing so they needed a
(42:45):
cabinet built.
This guy had invented thissystem and they were bankrolling
him.
So I designed a cabinet for him.
I got involved in it, so we hadto apply for an international
patent.
It cost us $15,000.
But anyway, I did that for afew years and we were going to
go to a big conference up in NewYork and all of a sudden Abe
(43:08):
pulled the plug and said I'mfinished with it and it never
went any further.
But I was involved in buildingthis video conference and we had
a copy of Blueprints from backin 1929 from the patent office
and some TV stuff andinformation all about television
(43:30):
was back in 1929.
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, some of those ideas take a long time to you
know you've got to be ready forthem, right, yeah, absolutely so
.
You closed up shop, you soldyour house and you moved.
What brought you to Michigan?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Well, my daughter went to law school here at
Cooley Law School.
Daughter went to law schoolhere at Cooley Law School, okay,
and she went to TowsonUniversity in Baltimore.
And when she went to privateschool in Maryland anyway,
lorain High School the nunsthere had the conferencing for
(44:13):
deciding what would be.
And she would come home andsaid I think I'd like to be a
paralegal.
I said that's great, but whynot just be a lawyer?
Do you think I can?
Sure you can Never.
Sent, put her blinders on, wentright through college, two and a
half years, knocked out thefour years, went to law school,
became an attorney and thenfirst passed the bar and then
she found out the foot hospitalin Jackson was looking for an
(44:36):
attorney and she thought I'd beon staff.
But no, they didn't have alegal department.
Their premium, as I remember,was for insurance, jumped to $10
million a year and that wasjust going to break them because
they grouped their hospital inwith all the ones in Detroit
which had much higher risklawsuits and all.
So they hired her and of courseshe had worked pre-bono for a
(44:59):
while, so she knew aboutself-insuring.
So she set up a corporationthat came in Ireland and so she
had them put $3 million in areserve account and the biggest
lawsuit they had was $50,000.
So that first year, so the nextyear, so for three years they
have $9 million plus interest.
So they didn't have to pay anymore insurance.
(45:20):
Wow, and that saved them.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Genius.
Yeah, so you moved up herebecause of your daughter, we
moved up here in August of 54.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
And we lived at a senior park up here just trying
to find our way around 54.
And we lived at a senior parkup here just trying to find our
way around, and we lived therefor about 3 years and we knew
this house was coming up.
So it was August of 2004?
2004.
Okay, 2004.
And we lived there for 3 yearsand we found this and moved into
this.
We bought it in 07, october 07,so we were only here about a
(45:52):
month and we took off to Floridaand we came back and then we
started working on it.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
So some of the other things that we talked about, too
, before the interview was thatyou were an honorary colonel.
Was it in the National Guard?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I got out of the Guard in 1966, early in 66, but
I'd gotten to well.
I used to help with therecruiting, so I had the Sky
Suite so I would help.
Let them have a party to honorsome of these top recruiters.
And Cal Franklin was a two-stargeneral appointed by President
Reagan.
They were friends back inCalifornia, I guess when Reagan
(46:33):
was governor.
So anyway I got to know him andhe asked me to serve on a
committee ESGR, which stands forEmployer Support of the Guard
and Reserve and I did do that.
So I served with them over 20years.
I was an ombudsman for theDistrict of Columbia and helped
guardsmen and reservists if theyhad a problem with their
(46:54):
employer because of theirmilitary affiliation.
So during that time he made mean honorary colonel in the Guard
.
So we were having lunch over atthe armory and Ed Meese, the
attorney general under Reagan,was sitting next to me and he
pinned on my colonel's pin and Isaid, wow, the attorney general
(47:14):
.
So I asked him for a picture ofhim.
He signed it for my daughter,who just was an attorney, so
she's tickled, she's got ithanging her off.
I've got quite a few nicepictures of her from different
attorneys Sandra Day O'Connor.
I got one signed from her.
It was kind of neat, but he wasvery pleasant and he was an
(47:37):
honorary general in the Guard.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
And so I served with him for a number of years.
So through your work in theESGR, though, you met a lot of
different dignitaries, correct?
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah, you would.
Well, you know, we'd go todifferent bases and they would
roll out the red carpet for you.
You'd meet the commandinggeneral of different bases and
all, and you'd get invited to anawful lot of banquets and
dinners and luncheons and privyto a lot of affairs at the
officers' clubs and all.
It was very nice.
And then the Marines mightsometimes take in a beach
(48:08):
assault in a landing.
One time in Mississippi we'dcome up right up on a beach and
people out on the beach and whatthe heck?
They thought it was an invasionor something Right, and I've
got pictures of that.
And then, of course, I knew alot of the people on the
general's airplane, so I knewthese crew and a lot of times
I'd ride in the cockpit in theengineer's seat.
So it was kind of neat.
But the trips were amazing andwe went out and laid buoys with
(48:34):
the Coast Guard on some of thosetrips and you've probably done
some of these trips.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, so the ESGR does the boss lift, is that?
Yeah, that's the boss lift.
Yeah, so that's where guardsmencan invite their supervisors or
bosses to go see what they do.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
basically, and the objective is to take these CEOs
and key people to show them theimportant role that the Guard
and Reserve play in our nationaldefense, because 54%, or 56% of
our national defense comes fromthe Guard and Reserve.
So we get more bang for thebuck, right, and it's really a
good system, you know, becauseyou can activate your guard and
(49:13):
poof you back up to strength.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, so how long did you stay with the ESGR?
Are you still involved withthat?
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I guess I'd done 20 years with them.
Okay, all right.
Yeah, many, many trips and Iused to help with a lot of
different things.
I'd make a lot of differentthings.
I'd make a lot.
I'd shoot pictures of the wholeevent and then I'd make a nice
display and they'd take themover to the Pentagon.
Some of them were hanging up inthe Pentagon and they'd show
them because the picture's wortha thousand words.
(49:48):
And I'd show some of the placeswe'd been and I've gotten some
nice letters back from thegeneral saying thanking me for
how they appreciate him.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things I want to talk
about too.
So tell me about meetingPresident Reagan's secretary.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
I thought that was really interesting.
Her name was Kathy Osborne.
She lived in Clinton, maryland,as I remember, and she was my
guest that night.
That was the night we had whenPresident Reagan went to Russia
and toured around and he reallyenjoyed that and he invited them
back to the United States, thisentourage of people.
(50:27):
One of them was GeneralBoryatko, who worked on the
peace negotiations, and he wasmy guest and spoke broken
English, but anyway, kathyOsmond was there and she was
standing at the bar and I saidhow about a signed picture from
President Reagan for my daughter?
She said sure, so I asked formy card and I gave her the card
(50:49):
and Prita Roselle was the actingpress secretary, because James
Brady was shot but he still wasalive and so anyway, he was
active.
So she handed the card to Peterand said Peter, take care of
that.
And he said, sure thing.
And on the way out, mr Lynch,I'll be sure to get that picture
out.
And sure enough they did.
And the envelope come from theWhite House.
(51:11):
It says White House Washington,not the White House Washington
DC, 1600, pennsylvania.
It was just White HouseWashington.
And my daughter was and hersecretary said was there
something from the White Houseand my daughter said, well, open
it.
Yeah, but it's from the WhiteHouse.
My daughter says, open it.
So she opened it.
It was a signed picture.
I said, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
That's incredible, incredible.
And you met Colin Powell aswell, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yeah, cal Franklin invited me to a black tie affair
at the Library of Congress andI'd never been.
I passed a number of times andthe ceilings in the Library of
Congress are painted like theSistine Chapel in Rome and if
anybody gets an opportunity theyshould see that it's just a
gorgeous building.
And so I stepped off theelevator and there's Cal
(51:56):
Franklin standing there withColin Powell.
Jim, I'd like you to meet ColinPowell.
So we had supper with ColinPowell, this dinner affair, and
there was a fellow sitting nextto me.
I said what are you doing?
He said I'm the governor ofTennessee, keith Grunquist.
Anyway, he was not a real niceguy, he was very pleasant, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
You said something to him, though, when he said he
was the governor of Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I said it's a shame you can't do better.
And we all had a couple ofsasperillas, I guess, and he
giggled a little bit and thenlaughed.
He took it.
It was just a good joke, youknow.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yeah, it was fun, good joke, you know, yeah, it
was fun, but yeah, that was veryinteresting.
So you know, you've been inMichigan for gosh 21 years, then
right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
We've been in this house.
Here we're starting on our 18thyear.
It's the longest we've everlived in any house.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, so what have you been doing since you closed
up shop and moved here?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Well, I'm active with the Guard and the senior center
here, eaton County SeniorCenter.
They have a musical madnessshow every year and for 10 years
straight I built the stageprops for them and my wife is a
line dance nut.
She loves line dance so shewould choreograph and perform on
the stage.
And whoever thought we'd bedoing this and I did a few skits
(53:11):
on the stage too thought we'dbe doing this and I did a few
skits on the stage too.
I dressed up as a fat Elvis andthen we do jailhouse rock.
You know We've done a lot ofsilly things, but the show and
the pictures are all I've gotdisplay pictures of all over the
walls and the senior center.
It was neat.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
So just keeping yourself busy then.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yeah, and then fishing in that lake out here,
yeah, and it's good fishing andI just keep it up.
You know, keep the beach a nicebeach.
I keep that up.
And of course, with the VFW,you know I do that and I supply
them a lot of pictures, I frameup a lot of things for them and
they have them hanging in thehall when we did that funeral
for Francis Flaherty.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit about the funeral for
.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Francis Flaherty.
Francis Flaherty was anincident in the Navy during well
before World War II.
He was in Hawaii and theJapanese attacked Pearl Harbor
and he was on board the Oklahomabattleship and he was below
deck, had a flashlight and hehelped to rescue because the
lights were out from theexplosion, being hit, torpedoed,
(54:12):
so he rescued, they think, acouple hundred people, the way I
heard it, and then there werestill a couple hundred more
below deck and the ship rolledover and I guess they were all
drowned, and so he was given theMedal of Honor posthumously and
they raised the ship up in 1943, as I remember, and they took
(54:35):
the remains off and put them ina grave one of the bowls in
Hawaii.
And so then they took the shipout to sea and sunk it because
it just was not salvageable, andover the years, with modern DNA
testing they were identifyingthe remains and a police escort.
(54:55):
About three years ago we weresitting up at the concert at the
courthouse on a Thursday nightright here in Charlotte and we
saw them come and they had theremains.
So the next day they had thefuneral and of course we were
with the honor guard and we wereright in the midst of it.
It was a huge turnout, hundredsand hundreds of people,
motorcycle groups, and so wewere right there in the center
(55:16):
of it and with the flag, drapedcasket, and it was just such an
honor and it was all over the TVand so I made up a nice display
and it's hanging in the hallsat the VFW.
But we were honored to do thatand that's the first time I did
a funeral for a Medal of Honorrecipient.
(55:36):
The Medal of Honor started inLincoln's time, in 1865 or
before, and I think there's onlybeen 2,500 to 3,000 Medal of
Honors given, so it's a prettysmall percentage.
So it's an honor to have done afuneral for a Medal of honors
given.
So it's a pretty smallpercentage.
So it's an honor to have done afuneral for a medal of honor
recipient.
(55:56):
All the guys that I've donefunerals with have never done a
medal of honor recipient,because we've done a lot in
Bushnell, florida, which is ahuge cemetery.
It's over 500 acres and I don'tknow how many graves are there
Wow, so you got to welcome himhome and lay him to rest.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, wow, so you continue your life of service
even though you're retired, andyou're still working with the
VFW and other organizations yeah.
We've covered a lot in thisinterview over the last hour.
Is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you
wanted to share?
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Boy, you've come up with some really good questions.
I'm sure I'll think ofsomething after you leave and we
separate.
Everyone does, by the way, yeah, yeah, well, you know, I just
think back as a boy.
I was a Boy Scout and I lovedcamping as a boy.
I was a Boy Scout and I lovedcamping as a kid and I'd go over
to Staten Island, which theyfinally built that Verrazano
(56:59):
Bridge.
They said never could be donebecause the Verrazano Bridge is
from the main support to theother.
It's one mile, I clocked it.
It's one mile over water.
And when I grew up in New Yorkthey said they'd never be able
to build a bridge.
Well, never, say never.
But then I'd go camping overthere.
It was just one of our lovedBoy Scouts and I caddied a lot
(57:19):
as a kid on a golf course.
That was a good source ofincome.
It was hard work but, yeah, andI worked a lot of different
jobs, but I've been blessedreally, because you know I grew
up dirt, poor and struggling butwe've made it.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
It's got to be a good feeling to think about that and
to think about where you're attoday.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yeah, I felt very fortunate, you know, but I
always felt like there's anopportunity, you know, take it.
It might not come again, youknow.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Well, so a lot of what I've heard today cause
we've spent some time together,um, and not just in this
interview, but just in the timethat I've spent with you, and
you know, you say a lot of times, you know it just it just
happened, it just sort of cametogether, or it was just dumb
luck, or whatever.
Um, do you think, though, thatthat all the everything happens
for a reason, or?
Or do you think, though, thatthat all the everything happens
for a reason, or do you think itis just dumb luck?
Speaker 2 (58:15):
yeah, I'm sure god must have a hand in it, you know
.
Yeah, I mean, I look back mymistakes I've made, but uh, I
would.
I, you know, as far as theservice, I would do it again.
I don't know why more youngpeople don't you know, and uh,
it really the first thing younotice when you go in, it's not
you boys, you men.
And I said men, wow, and I wasso moved.
(58:36):
But when I stood and salutedthat flag of the United States
and I said wow, I mean it makesme tear up.
Just that moment was sopowerful, you know, and I don't
know if people never experiencethat, and I get so offended when
I see somebody flying a flagupside down or desecrating the
flag.
We're so fortunate to have thiswonderful country and the
(58:58):
freedoms.
I've been to so many othercountries and seen the poverty
and the sickness and the sorrowand the lack of, and I hear
people complain yeah, this isrough, yeah, but you've got
three cars, You've got a summercottage, You've got all kind of
insurance, You've got SocialSecurity, I mean, and here
you're complaining, here kidsget great education.
Just drive around Michigan andsee how beautiful this state is.
(59:18):
You know, yeah, Problems sure,we all have problems, but not
like other countries.
You saw some of thenitty-gritty about Russia and I
see on YouTube a lot.
Oh, my God, the lady's talkingto the apartment.
We haven't had heat here forsix months, you know, I mean
terrible.
65% of the people live inapartments and it's all
(59:43):
government-owned.
Yeah, I knew some people at theCap Center.
I went over to the Olympics orsomething someplace.
Anyway, when I was in Hawaii,the Rolling Stones sent us to
Hawaii on our weddinganniversary.
I let them use the Sky Suite,the radio station, so they gave
us a trip to Hawaii all expenses.
(01:00:04):
Wow, how nice.
It was wonderful and that wasour 25th anniversary.
So, anyway, I come back and Ihad some T-shirts what's that
triathlon thing they have thereto swim so far and so many miles
?
So I brought back some t-shirts.
Well, they went nuts and I gotto talk to this one girl.
She says look what I broughtback from Russia.
It was a big piece of toiletpaper.
(01:00:25):
I said so what's that?
She put it on the bulletinboard.
There were splinters of wood inthe toilet paper.
Russian toilet paper.
Yeah, Russian toilet paper.
What does that tell you?
That's rough.
Yeah, I mean some of the things.
You go to a hotel.
They have plenty of big cakes,of regular hard lye soap and all
, but they don't have any facialsoap Oversupply and this and
(01:00:48):
that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
It's crazy.
I have a question at the end ofan interview, and that is is
for someone listening to thisyears from now, when neither one
of us are still here what, whatword of advice would you give
to people or what would you wantthem to take away from the way
you've lived your life?
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
take an opportunity when you get it, you know, and
go for the gusto and just, ifyou think you can't do something
, you probably can't.
If you think you can, you dosomething.
You probably can't.
If you think you can, youprobably will.
But go for the gusto and don'tlet life pass you by.
I mean, no matter how old youare.
I'm 92 years old and I enjoylife to the fullest.
And why not?
(01:01:24):
And people say, well, I don'twant to live that long.
Wrong, I enjoy life.
This is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Well, great Well, thanks for sharing your
afternoon with me.
Today is Monday, september 22nd 2025.
We're talking with Jim Lynch,who served in the United States
Air Force.
So good afternoon, jim, goodafternoon.
Thanks for having me out today.
It's an honor, my honor as well.
I really enjoyed lunch, by theway.
Thank you for that.
So we'll just get startedpretty easy.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I was born in Brooklyn, new York, at Bay Ridge
Hospital.
Glenn, where were you born?
I?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
was born in Brooklyn, new York, at Bay Ridge Hospital
.
Okay, and did you live inBrooklyn most of your life then,
as a child anyway?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, I did, until I joined the Air Force on August
28, 1951.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, Well, let's talk a little bit about growing
up.
Did you have brothers andsisters?
I have three sisters.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We're all RNs throughout the years and I have
a brother who also served in theAir Force.
He's eight years younger thanme.
Okay, and where'd you kind offall in the pecking order?
I'm the middle one, two olderand two younger.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
All right, so you fall in that middle child
category, yeah, okay.
Well, tell me a little bitabout what it was like growing
up with all your brothers andsisters in New York.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It was.
My father worked for the NewHaven Railroad, but he actually
didn't work on the trains, heworked on the tugboats.
He was an engineer and theyused to pull barges from New
Jersey into New York Harbor,which is very busy and it was
hard to get trains into.
So many only so many slept andI would go on board the vessel
(02:33):
with them sometimes and I hadrun of the tugboat up and down
the river over to New Jersey.
But once the war broke out,world War II, it was restricted,
very tight security and we werenot allowed on the boats
anymore.
And then, world War II, thingswere pretty different.
(02:54):
Things were rationed andblackouts.
You had to have all your lightsout, you had to have blackout
curtains and they had air-raidwardens.
So it was really different.
Living under World War IIcircumstances.
Yeah, what about your mom?
What did she do?
My mom, yeah, was she ahomemaker?
She was a homemaker, but myfather died of an accident early
(03:16):
on, just at the start of thewar.
It had nothing to do with thewar and my mother had a
difficult time to keep us fivekids together with the rationing
and then the war, andfinancially it was very
difficult.
So we had a tough time forthose years until Olga grown up
and went on with our careers.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, and so what was school like for you then?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I went to grade school and propial school and
then I went to a vocationalschool in New York City and I
decided to a vocational schoolin New York City and I decided
to join the Air Force.
I didn't really like New Yorkit's so crowded and I didn't
like running the subways, and soI joined the Air Force when I
was 17, about 17 and a half.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, so you graduated high school, though,
and then went into the Air Force.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Okay, talk to me a little bit about your decision
to join the Air Force.
Why the Air Force?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, it was really a brand new service and it just
sounded really interesting.
A lot of people thought we weregreyhound bus drivers with the
uniform.
I heard that a lot when I wasfirst joined.
But it was an honor.
And going through basictraining and the one thing that
sticks in my mind is when wefinally learned how to march and
we stood there that eveninglate afternoon and we stood
(04:31):
there and saluted the flag and Ireally felt like God, I'm part
of a tremendous team here.
It was such an honor and Iremember it's vivid in my memory
the honor of standing andsaluting the United States flag.
It was just a great honor.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
There's something about that?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, there really is .
You really feel very patriotic.
I left basic training.
I was at Sampson Air Force Base.
It was an old Navy base upstateNew York on Lake Seneca.
It got very, very cold so weflew down on a private aircraft
(05:08):
and we flew us down to ShepherdAir Force Base in Wichita Falls,
texas, and I went to aircraftmechanics school there and I was
fascinated with that.
One of the first airplanes Icrawled through was a B-29, and
I went up through the tunnel.
It was a tunnel to get to theback section and I went in the
tail gunner's section.
It was all they'd have heavygreen quilting fabric there as a
(05:30):
padding and it was allbloodstained and I said, oh my
God, some poor soul bought itand he was because nobody could
rescue him Back in the tailgunner.
But we worked on some jets andreciprocating engines B-25s, 26s
and T-33s.
So they left and were up toKilmer, new Jersey, and we were
(05:56):
there for almost a month waitingto go out.
It was really tough and thebarracks.
I got there late one night andI was trying to find a bunk and
there was only one bunkavailable.
It was in a private room withinthe old World War II barracks
and there was a tech sergeantthere.
He had been home on leave,emergency leave, and he was
(06:17):
going back to Germany and I saidcan I use this bunk?
Because he was a high-rankingNCO compared to me, one striper.
So he said sure.
So all the other bunks werefull.
So day after day we keptgetting KP.
It was really difficult and onan army base we were so busy and
we were just filthy, dirty fromworking and every day KP.
(06:37):
So a lot of the guys wereannoyed by this.
So they got a petition going.
They're going to sign apetition and this tech sergeant
gave me the best advice I'veever had in my life.
He said don't sign that becauseit's like signing, it's like a
mutiny.
So I said I'm not going to signthis.
Oh, you like this?
No, I don't care.
So anyway, the next day off toKP, we all go in Notice
(06:59):
throughout the day, these guysdisappearing.
I got back to the barracksafter KP.
Every mattress was rolled up.
There was not a personal itemin that barracks except my bunk
and that Texar.
So I guess they were arrested,I mean court-martialed, for a
mutiny.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Definitely not a democracy, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
right had my attention, yeah, that was great
advice that he gave you.
So then we were in New Jerseyand went over to the waterfront.
We boarded a ship that PrivateJoseph Aldez, a troop ship, and
we sailed up the North Atlanticand saw a lot of whales and
porpoise and we pulled into StJohn's, Newfoundland, and we
(07:40):
stayed there the night or donesome chores there and then went
over to the Navy base and weflew over to Ernest Harmon where
I was assigned in Newfoundland,Spent a couple months there and
then I volunteered and had anopportunity to go on a top
secret mission to the North Poleand I said I'll go and it was
(08:03):
fascinating.
It was like going to the moon.
It was 73 years to the moon.
It was 73 years ago.
So, yeah, Well, how did?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
so did they just say, hey, we have this top secret
mission, who wants to go?
I mean, how did they, how didhow did the selection work for
that?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, there was a line chief and a lot of guys.
The Southerners really used torib the guys from New York, you
know, and and I had a realstrong New York that Brooklyn
twang.
But I wouldn't let them get mygoat and I just said, oh yeah,
that's the way they all talk,they all talk funny and that's
you know.
Anyway, I just humored them.
So he kind of got to like meand he said you want to go on
(08:36):
this?
It'd be interesting.
So I said it's top secret.
Okay, well, we had secretsecret clearance.
So off I went and I took noclass A uniform, just fatigues
and Arctic clothing.
But then we had a special issueof kind of boots and gloves
when you go past the ArcticCircle.
So we stayed in a.
The barracks looked like arefrigerator, plastic handle
(08:59):
doors and it was very tightquarters and you only had 500
gallons of water per day becausethey had no plumbing underneath
and you had to conserve onwater because you didn't take
five-minute showers.
It's quick lathered up, hoseoff and that's it.
And the water that you showeredand brushed your teeth with
that's the water that flushedthe toilets and you had to pump
(09:20):
the toilet.
That's just the way it workedWow.
And the captain said who has adriver's license?
I had a military, firstdriver's license I ever had in
my life.
And he said go up to Motorpooland check out the biggest truck
they got.
So I went up and got a stakebody and I come back.
He said okay, now you take allthe guys to chow, you come back
and you stay in the barracks.
(09:41):
You restrict it because we'reon standby as soon as we get
communications to North Pole.
We're going to fly in theseprefab buildings.
So I said it's chow time andwe'd jump in the truck and I'd
say, okay, it's time to go.
And so, and Motor Pool keptcalling and said bring that
truck in for inspection.
I said no.
My captain said don't leavehere, you better bring it out.
(10:01):
We'd bring the truck back andwe'd jump in, we'd off, go to
North Pole and I'd take the keywith me and I'd go right on up
to them.
We had trouble with the landinggear and they opened the door
and there was a C-119 that hasclamshell doors.
So this is on the flight, aflight to Nord.
(10:22):
Nord is the Danish word fornorth.
So there was no equipment oranything, it was just little
sheds for buildings.
That's all they had right onthe ice.
So they opened the door andsaid you're going to have to
bail out because we're loadedlike we were.
If they landed without the gearit would rip the belly out and
(10:45):
we'd be killed.
But I didn't like the idea.
I was dress warming up, Ididn't have a weapon of any kind
Right, so we're circling aroundand he said who's the mechanic?
I said I am.
So it was seven of us.
I didn't know the guys, butanyway, he said give me a hand.
(11:06):
We had to cross these two lines.
If you cross, thread them, I'mgoing to throw you out anyway.
So better get it right then.
Huh, so, so anyway, I did, uh,get it and he said hit the gear.
Well, they, the gear, went down, but they didn't get a cure
indication.
So we, the gear was not verystable, we weren't sure.
So they landed real high andthe load shifted some and if it
(11:27):
came all the way back it wouldhave crushed us all.
But they got it down and welanded right on the ice and we
had a hand pump what fuel theyhad left, because we were almost
out of fuel.
And there's no when you go toNord.
There's no alternate oremergency stop.
It's there and no place on theice.
So we managed to get some fuelin it and sent them on their way
(11:50):
, and we spent about four orfive days there out of food.
All they had was pumpkin pie toeat, and I do still like
pumpkin pie.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
So basically they couldn't fly you back just
because of the condition of theaircraft, so they just left you
there.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, they were concerned that they could make
it and they didn't want to loseseven more lives.
Right, and they had a crew ofpilot, co-pilot, flight engineer
and, I guess, a navigator.
But it's hard to navigate.
Seventy-three years ago at theNorth Pole, a magnetic compass
just spins and the magnetic pole, I understand, is 200 miles
from the actual pole andnavigating is tough.
(12:24):
And then the Russians keptsending radio signals to block
our airways.
So that's why we couldn't justsay, oh, we're going to go today
, because we had to know whatthe weather was, because we
didn't have enough fuel to flythere, and say, oh, we can't
land if we come back BecauseThule Air Force Base, which was
just built in 1952, was 1,000miles away.
(12:44):
And that was quite an experience.
And there was no camerasallowed.
I had a nice new Kodak Retinacamera.
I just bought no cameras, nopictures, no alcoholic of
anything and never got paid.
No haircuts, no one shaved, itwas just.
You had your parka.
You noticed the fur on theparka.
You would zip it up real tightand then you look through the
(13:05):
fur that's to help the Eskimoscome up with that and of course
you get snow blind.
And we were there during thelight season.
So when you go to chow hall yousay, do I think it's morning or
night, so I don't breakfast?
So you serve breakfast anddinner whatever you felt like
that's what you'd eat, so thesun never set right?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
No, it never set the whole time you were there.
Not at all.
What did they have you doingthere?
Pardon me, what did they haveyou doing there?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Just manual work.
You know, I said something.
The guy that built Thule, hewas a retired Navy commander and
all I know his name wasBlowtorch Morgan and he was a
real creative guy.
The story about him theydropped a bulldozer at one time
when he was building Thule andit just the chute's, ripped and
(13:51):
destroyed it.
So anyway, they brought anotherone and enough parachutes to
get down and he needed a sparkplug for something and he made a
spark plug out of a piece ofbroom handle and coat hanger and
jammed it in there, got it towork.
But he was a real creative guy.
But he called all the shots.
He was a civilian now but theybrought him out of civilian and
(14:11):
I said something about some food.
He said, just go chop some ice,we need some water, and I'd chop
ice and put it in this old milkcan.
You had to be smaller to get inthere and we'd put on a burner
and a hot plate, yeah, and sothere wasn't much to do but just
stay warm and you didn't get amedal if you got frostbitten.
No, you were governmentproperty and we learned a lot
(14:34):
about you.
Know how to stay healthy.
I mean, just eat properly, youknow, and no alcohol at all, and
not even to be constipated,because that can affect.
And you learned how to alwayskeep your head covered and your
hands, because people say, well,my head's not cold, well, your
body will work to keep your headwarm, so that can then send
(14:56):
more heat to your hands and alsooh, okay, so really cold
weather survival?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yes, yeah, how long were you?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
there.
Well, I was in and out ofNewfoundland, labrador and
Greenland for two years.
Okay, now we also got I'd haveto go to mainland.
Canada sometimes to fix anairplane.
If American airplanes had aproblem in Canada they wouldn't
fix it, they would send for us.
So they'd send me.
So I got to know this SergeantYost, an old South Carolina man.
(15:25):
He'd say go get your buddyelectrician.
Another guy from Brooklyn, hesaid go fix that airplane.
So we'd go over and have to fixa C-54, and they were in no
rush to fix it, it was like acountry club.
They even had a still on thebase there, really.
And I said, come on, we've gotto get it.
There was no hangar big enoughfor the airplane.
So, and finally the weather.
I said you know, lieutenantReese, first lieutenant, I said
(15:47):
I've got to get back.
And he said no, no, no, relax.
So anyway, we finally fixed it.
I had a liquid like on theHamilton hydraulic prop on
number three engine and therewas a mag drop on the little
problem with it.
So we fixed that and got backand the day we land my crew was
on duty.
I said, oh God, I'm going tohave to work then.
And he said I'm glad you hitwith short-handed.
(16:09):
So this lieutenant says to thesergeant does this man work for
you?
Yes, sir.
He says well, he's done anexceptional job.
If you could see him give himoff today, he said okay, all.
But then sometimes seaplanes inLabrador they had some air-sea
rescues SA-16s, a twin-engineseaplane and they used to
(16:30):
practice saltwater landings andsometimes they'd get in trouble
and one of them got a prop stuckin reverse so all they could do
was back up.
So they sent us out by crashboat in the ocean and so they
had to get back to the base tocover the base.
So they left us on the seaplaneand we were a few days getting
that fixed and then getting backto my base and then my base was
(16:52):
socked in so we floated aroundin the water all night bouncing
around.
Then we took on so much waterbecause there's what they call
venturis and we must have taxiedor tried to take off for the 30
miles.
Just wah, wah, wah.
And finally the captain said Iwas a skinny little kid.
Then he said get in.
The head of the tail of theaircraft was where the latrine
(17:14):
was the head and there wasanother hatch.
He said get back in there.
And I'm crawling this littlespace and the cables are cutting
across my neck back and forthand they tried to get enough
weight down to break thatsuction.
They finally got off and gotback.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Stuffed you all the way in the back of that plane
just to take off.
Huh, yeah, yeah.
So when you finished in thatarea, where did you go from
there?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I come back to Andrews Air Force Base in August
of 54, and I had a year tofinish up my hitch so they put
me on transit maintenance andalso one of our jobs was to take
care of the historic aircraftthat was President Roosevelt's
Air Force One.
They called it the Sacred Cowthe Secret Service gave it that
nickname, and also the Enola Gay.
(17:56):
I used to go up and sit in thecockpit and I thought what was
that like to punch that button?
It was 150,000 people killedinstantly, I think, and it was
always a strange feeling.
I come back one day and Tomsays there's an oil leak on
number two engine.
Go fix it.
So I brought an aero stand outthere and it was a pushrod leak
and I fixed it.
And then General MacArthur'sold B-17 was out there.
(18:17):
The first jet bomber was a B-43,the strangest-looking aircraft,
two different-sized engines init.
Really, yeah, never done muchon it.
We had to make sure they weretied down.
There was no cats sometimes toget in there, birds to make
nests.
You had to make sure all thetie downs were good because you
had them secured to the ground.
There was a couple, there was aP-82, I think it was two F-51s
(18:39):
put together and there was acouple of Navy aircraft over
there and they were waiting.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Don't see.
Yes, yes, yeah.
I can't even imagine seeing theEnola Gay.
I mean, that would be to sitthere where the pilot sat.
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I'd sit in the cockpit, and I think that was in
1954, the fall of 1954, and Ithink, oh my God, I didn't
realize then how historical thatwas.
But they dropped that bomb.
That was the first bomb, andthen the boxcar was the second
B-29, and it dropped the secondbomb, and the first one was
(19:22):
Nagasaki, and then that's theone that they dropped the bomb.
That was the second bomb andHirohito still wasn't going to
resign, right.
So finally, they did have athird bomb, which I just reached
.
I have a picture of that.
It was on the Internet and Iguess they finally realized we
don't need another third bomb.
But they didn't want to hitTokyo, I guess because it was
(19:43):
such a yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It was a yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
But they say it saved a million lives men, american
lives.
So but yeah, that was quite anexperience.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So you finished out your time in the Air Force at
Andrews, yes.
So what did you do when you got?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
out.
I took a job in civilian lifefor about six months and then I
heard about the National Guardhiring.
So I went down to the AirNational Guard and I signed up
and I'd be paying the crew chiefon F-86 Sabre jets North
American made and I'd done thatfor a few years and then I went
(20:23):
in and worked on inspections andthen Now, was this all right
there at Andrews still?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Pardon me, was this right at Andrews still?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
At Andrews.
Oh, yeah, okay okay.
We'd go to a summer camp down atTravis Field in Georgia,
savannah, georgia, back andforth, but I was full-time in
uniform that whole time.
Everybody thought I wasmilitary active duty, but they
didn't understand.
I said no, I just worked forthe Guard.
I was a civil service employeeand then the weekend warrior,
(20:50):
Working for the Guard in DC, wegot called to active duty.
I've been deputized with allthe inaugurals every four years,
so the different presidentsthat were served, I'd be walking
a beat.
And then President Kennedy'sassassination.
Of course I was in the HonorGuard for his funeral, which was
such an honor.
In fact 125 of us showed up andthey said we only can have 90.
(21:15):
And I said you can drop out,you'll still be paid.
Nobody moved.
So he said all right, from thisrank over, you're out of here.
So they just couldn't march.
We didn't have room for them.
We marched behind the Navy bandand I've been in a lot of
parades but never in a funeral.
And a funeral is so differentbecause it's such a slower
cadence and you just can'tforget for a moment.
(21:36):
And the Navy band playedmagnificently.
We didn't miss a beat or asound, and the sound was
bouncing off the buildings, itwas like your head was inside of
a stereo.
And as we walked, marchedtowards the White House, they
took the caisson up the drivewayfor the White House for
Kennedy's last trip to the WhiteHouse, and the Marines were
(21:56):
standing with port arms that'swhere you hold your rifle, out
in front of you, and they wereshoulder to shoulder and I was
on an outside rank, and youdon't turn your head, of course,
but I could turn my eyes and Ilooked over and I could hear in
front of me.
I heard a murmur, oh God, ohGod.
And I couldn't.
Why are they saying oh God?
And I saw this Marine.
(22:17):
The tears were coming off hischeek like a faucet and it just
comes out and said oh my God.
And all the way down the line,as they would see it, they'd say
oh God, oh God, oh God.
Just saddest thing, it's just.
I mean that's so vivid in mymemory, people, it's so vivid in
my memory.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
People loved John F Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
The people really loved him.
They did.
They loved John F Kennedy?
Yeah, he was, and of course hecalled me back to active duty
for the Berlin crisis in 61 to62.
But that was, as I said, thephoto lab come under my
jurisdiction and his personalphotographer was Wayne Sherwin,
who I keep in contact with allthese years and that's why he
(22:56):
supplied me some of thesepictures I showed you earlier
from the funeral.
But yeah, and it was cold.
They said leave the overcoatson the bus.
And it was cold that day.
And they marched across the14th Street Bridge and you're
supposed to march across thebridge route step, and I could
feel the bridge swaying, but itreally was a really cold day.
(23:19):
And when they went to a churchin town I forgot the name of the
church, a Catholic church.
Of course.
They had a mass and everybody,the dignitaries, all, walked in
that funeral procession.
They didn't ride limousines.
And here we are standing at aparade rest and there's in front
of me Charles de Gaulle,president of France, haile
Selassie, the Emperor ofEthiopia, ted Kennedy, sergeant
(23:43):
Shriver, now President Johnson,and all of us.
I said, oh my God, I've got toreach out and touch him.
It was just part of such ahistorical moment.
Yeah, it was really sad it was,and people sobbing.
I worked my final years with theguard.
(24:04):
I was in three years inmaintenance control, so I was in
charge of maintenance on afighter squad and on the way
home because I knew and I taxiedaround Air Force One many times
.
You know Kennedy and people.
You'd see people stop theirsteering, holding their steering
wheel, sobbing and tears comingto their eyes.
But the one time when I wastaxing around this, of course
(24:26):
before his death I was taxingaround and Andrews has two
runways, parallel 1028s, thewest and east, and I was in the
taxiway between and holdingshort aircraft coming and going
and I heard Air Force One sayAndrews Tower, this is Air Force
One, we're ready to taxi.
And a young fellow at the towerI could tell he was young in
his voice.
He said you'll have to holdshort, we have aircraft on final
(24:48):
.
And the pilot very calmly comesback.
This negative Air Force Onedoes not hold Roger, I
understand, comes back.
This negative Air Force Onedoes not hold Roger, I
understand.
And he proceeded to taxi.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
He didn't know who he was talking to at first, did he
?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
No no.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Oh my gosh.
So how long did you serve inthe Air Guard?
Ten years, okay, and all atAndrews Air Force Base.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, although we traveled a lot I mean I've been
out to McCord Air Force Base andFort Lewis and out in the West
Coast and Savannah, georgia, acouple to Alpena, michigan,
wisconsin, folkfield.
So yeah, I spent a lot of time.
We spent a lot of timetraveling, fixing airplanes and
(25:28):
I once went to Lake Charles,louisiana.
My airplane had nose gearcollapse on a landing so I was
out there to fix it and, being asecurity tight, a sack base,
that was really tight and theyhad a couple of people changed
in a booster pump and didn'tdisconnect the electric leads
and had an explosion.
I guess it must have killedthem but blew the side of the
(25:49):
airplane up.
They had B-47s.
They lost I think seven B-47s.
Wow, and fuel and I don't knowwhat the capacity was, thousands
of gallons and fuel was runningdown like a river and they
evacuated the base because theysaid there was some high-powered
weaponry on it.
Yeah, and when I was in thehangar when it first happened,
(26:10):
the grates and the drain justpopped up out of the explosion.
The concussion was so powerfulthat must have been a little
scary, it was to evacuate a baseyeah.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So you know, you served your time.
You did your active duty andyour reserve time.
So why did you leave the AirNational Guard?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, you know, my wife was home taking care of the
children and we had some healthproblems with the kids and we
were traveling all the time.
We were just living out of aduffel bag.
I might as well have been onactive duty.
It was just getting deputizedfor everything in the Civil
Rights March when Martin LutherKing made his famous speech.
(26:55):
I have a Dream.
I was in the middle of that andwe were concerned.
We didn't know what was goingto happen what turned out to be
a very beautiful and peacefulday.
Yeah, there was a guy NormanRockwell was his name, I think.
He was a radical wacko and theythought he was going to create
a lot of problems.
So they just formed a bigcircle of guardsmen around him
and wouldn't let him do anything.
But it turned out.
The biggest thing I had to dowas treat a lady for first aid.
(27:18):
First aid, she had passed outand scraped up her knee and she
was fine, and it turned out tobe a beautiful day.
But we didn't know what toexpect.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, you just never know and.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I was, you know.
It's just hard, you know,traveling all the time and
trying to, and it's hard on thewife.
A lot of marriages suffered,you know, because we've been
called on so much.
That's what I'm concerned aboutnow.
Things today, the guardsmen aregoing to just wear out, you
know.
You just can't keep holleringwolf Right.
(27:50):
So where did you meet your wife?
On a blind date.
Oh well, tell me about this.
At the barracks at Andrews AirForce Base.
I had about three or fourmonths to finish up my hitch and
it was a roommate, jimmyFalgett.
And Jimmy knew I had a car andhe was dating this girl, mary
(28:11):
Lou Perry.
And he said you want to go on ablind date?
And I said meet her sister, andthat's Rosemarie.
So I said okay, because I had acar.
So we went to a drive-intheater or something and that's
the love sparked and the rest ishistory.
But Jimmy Falgett went off on aninteresting trip.
(28:34):
They were looking for twosenior aircraft mechanics.
The only two in the squadronwas he and I.
You had to be white, catholic,single, high school graduate,
senior aircraft mechanic and youwere going on a special mission
to Spain to serve with theembassy, flying into South
Africa and you got a civilianclothing allowance of $300.
(28:57):
We're back in 1954.
That was a piece of change.
That's a lot of clothes.
Plus you got a re-up bonus andI said I'm in love and I'm not
going.
So he went and I never heardfrom him.
I'd love to know how thatturned out.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Wouldn't it be great to hear his story about that,
wouldn't it?
Yeah?
So how long did you date beforeyou decided to get married?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Well, we met it was probably the fall of 54 at a
little drive-in restaurant andit was just kind of coincidental
I'd seen her there before.
And then Jimmy Falgettintroduced me, so that's how it
all started, and then we weremarriedt introduced me, so
that's how it all started, andthen we were married July 7th of
56, so about a year after wemet.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, been married ever since.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, we've been married 69 years, wow, july 7th.
Yeah, we have four children and15 grandchildren and
great-grandchildren.
So you keep busy these daysthen yeah, I see I'm a volunteer
.
I've been doing funerals nowwith an independent group in
Florida in Marin County,Memorial Honor Guard, and I've
(30:07):
done probably about 500 to 600funerals over the last 10, 12
years.
Wow, and I do them here withthe VFW too.
Okay, I've done Mel Tillis'funeral Honor Guard, of course,
john F Kennedy's.
I saw the pictures from the MelTillis yeah, which is
interesting because I kind ofgrew up with his music, yeah, as
(30:27):
a kid, so I remember that yeahhe was interesting and in his
obituary there was a pamphletmade up and his mom said that
apparently the stuttering workson, I think, the left side of
the brain and singing.
That's why he wouldn't stutterand he would sing.
Yeah, but he was a super guy.
A lot of people in Ocala knewhim and they kept saying I want
(30:47):
to introduce you sometime.
I've seen him in person at aBranson but I never chatted with
him.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, and anyone kind of listening to this who's
never heard of Mel Tillis, theyshould listen to an interview
with him and then listen to himsing, because he had a beautiful
singing voice.
Oh, he did.
He could really sing.
Yeah, yeah yeah, so kind ofgoing back a little bit.
So you're married, you'rehaving kids and it's just time
to not be in the militaryanymore.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, when I was in the military I started a home
improvement business.
She had a nephew or a cousin, Iguess it was, and Jerry was in.
He worked for a homeimprovement company in
Washington DC and we bought ourfirst house and he said do you
want some storm windows?
I said, yeah, I'd love to havesome.
So he hooked me up and I gotsome storm windows.
I said, yeah, I'd love to housethem.
So he hooked me up and I gotsome storm windows and I had a
neighbor up the street wantedsome, said well, I said, jerry,
(31:40):
you got to want some windows.
Okay, so we sold him somewindows and that started my
company.
He said, well, I don't want tobe part of.
He says, I'm moving toCalifornia with my dad, we're
going to raise chinchillas.
I said, okay.
So I kind of got into windowsand doors and I'd done that for,
let's see, 62, 63, 64, 65.
(32:02):
So about four years, almost fiveyears, I was doing it part-time
with the guard, so I sold a lotof the people within the guard
and I started doing more majorthings.
So Vietnam was breathing down myneck and it was tough on the
wife taking care of children andhealth problems they had had
some surgeries and so my timewas up when I got out.
(32:26):
Plus, the money was not verygood.
I mean I was making more moneyfrom my part-time businesses
than I was from my full-time job.
Yeah, so I think I was making$6,700 a year, military and
civilian pay combined, and I wasprobably making $12,000 a year
from my civilian I mean mycompany, general home company.
And then over the years Istumbled into that work at the
(32:50):
Capitol Center where theWashington Bullets now called
the Wizards and the Capitalshockey team, and so I was there
for 20 years and I did a lot ofwork.
So I'd even done a job forHoward Hughes and AT&T Bell,
atlantic World Bank, you know,remax Realty.
So I used to decorate all theskyscrapers, deloitte, tuchin
Ross, the largest accountingfirm.
That was really interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
So your company would decorate those suites, the
boxes, Wall paper, carpet andthen I'd build cabinets.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So I had cabinet makers that would make cabinets
for me and then of course I didwindows and doors and siding and
if it was legal I would tackleit.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, why not, why not?
And you ended up with a suiteyourself right for a while.
Yeah, for 20 years.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
You got to meet a lot of interesting famous people
through that, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, I did.
I allowed B-104 during thethey'd done a fundraiser.
Anyway, I met a lot of starsthat night or that day and so I
set up a little booth and weused to this B-104 was broadcast
.
I think it was broadcast fromNew York, right there at the
(33:57):
booth, you know it was neat.
And then the DC-101, there was aguy by the name of Greaseman a
lot of the young guys loved.
I just thought he was amazing.
He was a character, but anywayhe'd come up and people just
breaking their neck to get upthere.
So he was a good follower.
And then some of them theywould bring up different stars
(34:18):
like Billy Joel would come upone night and I met him and he
was really small I didn't knowhe was so short and he said you
can ask me any question you want.
He says just don't ask me aboutmy voice because I've got a
cold.
He said I sound like RandyDangerfield.
No respect.
And I cracked out, but he wasreally hilarious.
And Lou Gossett came up onetime and I was cooking up hot
(34:39):
dogs.
It was mid-concert, so hejumped in and he had hot dogs
with us.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
He was just a down-to-earth guy.
Wow, hot dogs with Lou Gossettyeah, Wow, that's something.
Yeah, that's something.
Did you meet?
Like I was looking at your wall, you have a lot of famous
people.
I saw Jimmy Page.
Was he in your suite at onetime too?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Well, yeah, we had an awful lot of people and you
made a lot of contacts, likeonce I was invited up to an
auction through the Cap Center.
It was down in Washington DC,that's when I met Jim Brady and
then I bid on some an auction,so it was to be at on stage with
Kate Nally's show.
(35:23):
That was Jane Curtin and SusanSt James.
So my wife and I and myyoungest daughter went up and
we're right up on the stage atthe old Ed Sullivan theater, not
sitting in the seats, we'reright on the stage.
It took four hours to tape onetaping of Kate and Ali and it
goes quite on the set and it wasjust amazing to see it all
transpired.
Yeah, and the Ed SullivanTheater is up on what?
(35:45):
54th Street, and so it wasreally kind of interesting to be
there.
And I met her afterwards.
We had pictures with JaneCurtin, Susan Jane, jane, but
yeah, a lot of stars would comeup and then Prince Bendar used
to use this guy.
He liked security.
They were worried about theirchildren, you know, and never
(36:06):
any picture of them and theyalways had his security people
around him.
But they would come up a lot oftimes to the suite.
They liked that, and his wife,princess Haifa, and the princess
called me when I.
Princess Haifa called me andshe says I want you to take my
two daughters to meet GeorgeMichael.
So it was a couple weeks before.
Well, if you start something inmotion, then so many people get
(36:29):
involved and it falls flat.
It never happens.
So I waited until the night ofthe event.
I called back and I said PrinceBendar, the ambassador of Saudi
Arabia, his two daughters,princess Lula and Princess Nita,
wanted to meet George Michaeltonight.
So they said okay, so I broughtthem backstage.
They always sent one of theirInterpol security guys and they
go back into the private roomand George Michael was so
(36:53):
gracious, very nice, and thegirls were shaking his hand and
they were just like giddy littleteenagers.
Yeah, and with that, oneprincess takes her jacket off.
It's a denim jacket and I don'tknow if you've seen an airbrush
.
They had airbrushes and hisportrait was on this airbrush
and I've seen them inMississippi one time.
They sell for $2,000 to $3,000back, then yeah, and Mississippi
(37:14):
.
One time they sell for $2,000to $3,000 back, then yeah, and
she takes it.
Well, I want you to have myjacket.
And George Mike says, well, Ican't take that from you.
She was so disappointed and Isaid, george, I'm sure if the
princess wants you to have it, Iwould please ask you to take it
.
He said, oh you sure, jim, yeah, and he put it on his arm,
thank you.
She just smiled and she gavehim that beautiful denim jacket.
(37:34):
Wow, and he was so gracious, itwas nice.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
That's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, so for 20 years this was your life then it
really was, because I'd have tosublet it to help pay the bill.
You know Right, and I wouldn'tdo individual tickets
Corporations, I'd get likePepsi-Cola one night.
They were sponsoring this KennyRogers concert, so I said sure.
(37:59):
So they said let's go backstageand meet Kenny Rogers.
Okay.
So we went backstage and metKenny Rogers.
He was real famous, with noautographs, posed for pictures
and we're posing for picturesand he's Guys were jumping and
putting hope fingers.
I stopped fooling around.
I didn't know it was the OakRidge boys.
Oh no, the Oak Ridge boys werejust horsing around us.
I didn't even recognize them.
(38:20):
Yeah, those guys are funny.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Oh yeah, I didn't realize how funny.
I saw them live and they'regreat.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, but it's amazing the stars that you see
and run across.
But it was interesting 20 yearsand it just got so costly.
I just couldn't afford itanymore.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
And then this whole time you were running your home
improvement business my ownbusiness.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
But I did a lot of work in the building for them,
decorating for the wallpaper,and you learned all about
carpeting, wallpaper andcabinets.
And then it would branch outlike the arenas have their
tickets printed on a machinecalled a Boca.
A Boca is a company and the wayI understand it, they charge a
nickel a ticket.
They don't sell you the machine, they just rent it to you a
(39:03):
nickel a ticket and they have acounter.
So the ones that they had at theCapitol Center and they were
overheating.
They'd got new machines andthey put them on the old stand.
Well, they took the cowling offand the air wasn't getting, so
they were overheating.
So they said we need a newcabinet.
So I said okay.
So I went over and I workedwith the people that worked with
them.
You know.
I said where do you adjust them?
How high, how far, how fast Doyou need wheels?
(39:26):
And they explained everythingto me.
And Do you have to know?
You have a locket, because thecardstock, the printers, that's
like money, because somebodycould type up there.
So I designed, I finally, and Icalled my camera guy We've got
to work tonight, we work tillmidnight, make and I brought the
prototype, brought it in.
They said that's great, we need52 of them, 52?
(39:47):
So what held me up?
I finally got them and Chicagowas kind of the headquarters for
(40:34):
hardware and I needed casters.
Well, that's over 400, I mean200 casters.
So they finally got them and weshipped them.
So I just kept delivering andthey just kept and I'd done that
for about two years.
Wow, it's kind of funny thethings you get into Right right.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So you ran your business as well for 20 years.
Is that how long you were inthe?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I had my business for 42 years, 42 years.
I shut it down in August of2004.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Okay, so you were in the same area for 42 years then.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yes, the whole time In Southern Maryland, just
outside of Washington DC.
I moved to Southern Marylandbut I kept the business going
for 52 years, never declared aloss, never got big, just stayed
small.
Just the KISS principle keep itsimple, stupid Right it seems
to work.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah Right, absolutely yeah.
So what did you do when youclosed up shop?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Well, we moved up to Michigan so we had a waterfront
property and I think I paid $155.
It was right on the PatuxentRiver.
It was a good buy.
I got a bargain on it and Isold it for $700.
So we cleared about a half amillion.
And there was a tax where afterage 62, you didn't have to pay
(41:57):
capital gains, which reallyhelped us to retire because I
did have money set aside in IRAs.
So I just shut the business down.
I thanked General Holmes andthat's it.
Wow, when I selected the name,if a guy opens a business, well
it's a Charlie Jones windowcompany.
Well, that's all Charlie Jonesprobably sells.
(42:20):
And so I thought I'm going tobranch into real estate.
So General Home could have beenreal estate.
So over the years I did sellfence, carpeting, windows, doors
, shutters, siding, and thensometimes I get involved in a
bullet who owned a companycalled.
I'll think of it.
Anyway, he was working on videoconferencing so they needed a
(42:45):
cabinet built.
This guy had invented thissystem and they were bankrolling
him.
So I designed a cabinet for him.
I got involved in it, so we hadto apply for an international
patent.
It cost us $15,000.
But anyway, I did that for afew years and we were going to
go to a big conference up in NewYork and all of a sudden Abe
(43:08):
pulled the plug and said I'mfinished with it and it never
went any further.
But I was involved in buildingthis video conference and we had
a copy of Blueprints from backin 1929 from the patent office
and some TV stuff andinformation all about television
(43:30):
was back in 1929.
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, some of those ideas take a long time to you
know you've got to be ready forthem, right, yeah, absolutely so
.
You closed up shop, you soldyour house and you moved.
What brought you to Michigan?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Well, my daughter went to law school here at
Cooley Law School.
Daughter went to law schoolhere at Cooley Law School, okay,
and she went to TowsonUniversity in Baltimore.
And when she went to privateschool in Maryland anyway,
lorain High School the nunsthere had the conferencing for
(44:13):
deciding what would be.
And she would come home andsaid I think I'd like to be a
paralegal.
I said that's great, but whynot just be a lawyer?
Do you think I can?
Sure you can Never.
Sent, put her blinders on, wentright through college, two and a
half years, knocked out thefour years, went to law school,
became an attorney and thenfirst passed the bar and then
she found out the foot hospitalin Jackson was looking for an
(44:36):
attorney and she thought I'd beon staff.
But no, they didn't have alegal department.
Their premium, as I remember,was for insurance, jumped to $10
million a year and that wasjust going to break them because
they grouped their hospital inwith all the ones in Detroit
which had much higher risklawsuits and all.
So they hired her and of courseshe had worked pre-bono for a
(44:59):
while, so she knew aboutself-insuring.
So she set up a corporationthat came in Ireland and so she
had them put $3 million in areserve account and the biggest
lawsuit they had was $50,000.
So that first year, so the nextyear, so for three years they
have $9 million plus interest.
So they didn't have to pay anymore insurance.
(45:20):
Wow, and that saved them.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Genius.
Yeah, so you moved up herebecause of your daughter, we
moved up here in August of 54.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
And we lived at a senior park up here just trying
to find our way around 54.
And we lived at a senior parkup here just trying to find our
way around, and we lived therefor about 3 years and we knew
this house was coming up.
So it was August of 2004?
2004.
Okay, 2004.
And we lived there for 3 yearsand we found this and moved into
this.
We bought it in 07, october 07,so we were only here about a
(45:52):
month and we took off to Floridaand we came back and then we
started working on it.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
So some of the other things that we talked about, too
, before the interview was thatyou were an honorary colonel.
Was it in the National Guard?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I got out of the Guard in 1966, early in 66, but
I'd gotten to well.
I used to help with therecruiting, so I had the Sky
Suite so I would help.
Let them have a party to honorsome of these top recruiters.
And Cal Franklin was a two-stargeneral appointed by President
Reagan.
They were friends back inCalifornia, I guess when Reagan
(46:33):
was governor.
So anyway I got to know him andhe asked me to serve on a
committee ESGR, which stands forEmployer Support of the Guard
and Reserve and I did do that.
So I served with them over 20years.
I was an ombudsman for theDistrict of Columbia and helped
guardsmen and reservists if theyhad a problem with their
(46:54):
employer because of theirmilitary affiliation.
So during that time he made mean honorary colonel in the Guard
.
So we were having lunch over atthe armory and Ed Meese, the
attorney general under Reagan,was sitting next to me and he
pinned on my colonel's pin and Isaid, wow, the attorney general
(47:14):
.
So I asked him for a picture ofhim.
He signed it for my daughter,who just was an attorney, so
she's tickled, she's got ithanging her off.
I've got quite a few nicepictures of her from different
attorneys Sandra Day O'Connor.
I got one signed from her.
It was kind of neat, but he wasvery pleasant and he was an
(47:37):
honorary general in the Guard.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
And so I served with him for a number of years.
So through your work in theESGR, though, you met a lot of
different dignitaries, correct?
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah, you would.
Well, you know, we'd go todifferent bases and they would
roll out the red carpet for you.
You'd meet the commandinggeneral of different bases and
all, and you'd get invited to anawful lot of banquets and
dinners and luncheons and privyto a lot of affairs at the
officers' clubs and all.
It was very nice.
And then the Marines mightsometimes take in a beach
(48:08):
assault in a landing.
One time in Mississippi we'dcome up right up on a beach and
people out on the beach and whatthe heck?
They thought it was an invasionor something Right, and I've
got pictures of that.
And then, of course, I knew alot of the people on the
general's airplane, so I knewthese crew and a lot of times
I'd ride in the cockpit in theengineer's seat.
So it was kind of neat.
But the trips were amazing andwe went out and laid buoys with
(48:34):
the Coast Guard on some of thosetrips and you've probably done
some of these trips.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, so the ESGR does the boss lift, is that?
Yeah, that's the boss lift.
Yeah, so that's where guardsmencan invite their supervisors or
bosses to go see what they do.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
basically, and the objective is to take these CEOs
and key people to show them theimportant role that the Guard
and Reserve play in our nationaldefense, because 54%, or 56% of
our national defense comes fromthe Guard and Reserve.
So we get more bang for thebuck, right, and it's really a
good system, you know, becauseyou can activate your guard and
(49:13):
poof you back up to strength.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, so how long did you stay with the ESGR?
Are you still involved withthat?
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I guess I'd done 20 years with them.
Okay, all right.
Yeah, many, many trips and Iused to help with a lot of
different things.
I'd make a lot of differentthings.
I'd make a lot.
I'd shoot pictures of the wholeevent and then I'd make a nice
display and they'd take themover to the Pentagon.
Some of them were hanging up inthe Pentagon and they'd show
them because the picture's wortha thousand words.
(49:48):
And I'd show some of the placeswe'd been and I've gotten some
nice letters back from thegeneral saying thanking me for
how they appreciate him.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things I want to talk
about too.
So tell me about meetingPresident Reagan's secretary.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
I thought that was really interesting.
Her name was Kathy Osborne.
She lived in Clinton, maryland,as I remember, and she was my
guest that night.
That was the night we had whenPresident Reagan went to Russia
and toured around and he reallyenjoyed that and he invited them
back to the United States, thisentourage of people.
(50:27):
One of them was GeneralBoryatko, who worked on the
peace negotiations, and he wasmy guest and spoke broken
English, but anyway, kathyOsmond was there and she was
standing at the bar and I saidhow about a signed picture from
President Reagan for my daughter?
She said sure, so I asked formy card and I gave her the card
(50:49):
and Prita Roselle was the actingpress secretary, because James
Brady was shot but he still wasalive and so anyway, he was
active.
So she handed the card to Peterand said Peter, take care of
that.
And he said, sure thing.
And on the way out, mr Lynch,I'll be sure to get that picture
out.
And sure enough they did.
And the envelope come from theWhite House.
(51:11):
It says White House Washington,not the White House Washington
DC, 1600, pennsylvania.
It was just White HouseWashington.
And my daughter was and hersecretary said was there
something from the White Houseand my daughter said, well, open
it.
Yeah, but it's from the WhiteHouse.
My daughter says, open it.
So she opened it.
It was a signed picture.
I said, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
That's incredible, incredible.
And you met Colin Powell aswell, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yeah, cal Franklin invited me to a black tie affair
at the Library of Congress andI'd never been.
I passed a number of times andthe ceilings in the Library of
Congress are painted like theSistine Chapel in Rome and if
anybody gets an opportunity theyshould see that it's just a
gorgeous building.
And so I stepped off theelevator and there's Cal
(51:56):
Franklin standing there withColin Powell.
Jim, I'd like you to meet ColinPowell.
So we had supper with ColinPowell, this dinner affair, and
there was a fellow sitting nextto me.
I said what are you doing?
He said I'm the governor ofTennessee, keith Grunquist.
Anyway, he was not a real niceguy, he was very pleasant, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
You said something to him, though, when he said he
was the governor of Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I said it's a shame you can't do better.
And we all had a couple ofsasperillas, I guess, and he
giggled a little bit and thenlaughed.
He took it.
It was just a good joke, youknow.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yeah, it was fun, good joke, you know, yeah, it
was fun, but yeah, that was veryinteresting.
So you know, you've been inMichigan for gosh 21 years, then
right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
We've been in this house.
Here we're starting on our 18thyear.
It's the longest we've everlived in any house.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, so what have you been doing since you closed
up shop and moved here?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Well, I'm active with the Guard and the senior center
here, eaton County SeniorCenter.
They have a musical madnessshow every year and for 10 years
straight I built the stageprops for them and my wife is a
line dance nut.
She loves line dance so shewould choreograph and perform on
the stage.
And whoever thought we'd bedoing this and I did a few skits
(53:11):
on the stage too thought we'dbe doing this and I did a few
skits on the stage too.
I dressed up as a fat Elvis andthen we do jailhouse rock.
You know We've done a lot ofsilly things, but the show and
the pictures are all I've gotdisplay pictures of all over the
walls and the senior center.
It was neat.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
So just keeping yourself busy then.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yeah, and then fishing in that lake out here,
yeah, and it's good fishing andI just keep it up.
You know, keep the beach a nicebeach.
I keep that up.
And of course, with the VFW,you know I do that and I supply
them a lot of pictures, I frameup a lot of things for them and
they have them hanging in thehall when we did that funeral
for Francis Flaherty.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit about the funeral for
.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Francis Flaherty.
Francis Flaherty was anincident in the Navy during well
before World War II.
He was in Hawaii and theJapanese attacked Pearl Harbor
and he was on board the Oklahomabattleship and he was below
deck, had a flashlight and hehelped to rescue because the
lights were out from theexplosion, being hit, torpedoed,
(54:12):
so he rescued, they think, acouple hundred people, the way I
heard it, and then there werestill a couple hundred more
below deck and the ship rolledover and I guess they were all
drowned, and so he was given theMedal of Honor posthumously and
they raised the ship up in 1943, as I remember, and they took
(54:35):
the remains off and put them ina grave one of the bowls in
Hawaii.
And so then they took the shipout to sea and sunk it because
it just was not salvageable, andover the years, with modern DNA
testing they were identifyingthe remains and a police escort.
(54:55):
About three years ago we weresitting up at the concert at the
courthouse on a Thursday nightright here in Charlotte and we
saw them come and they had theremains.
So the next day they had thefuneral and of course we were
with the honor guard and we wereright in the midst of it.
It was a huge turnout, hundredsand hundreds of people,
motorcycle groups, and so wewere right there in the center
(55:16):
of it and with the flag, drapedcasket, and it was just such an
honor and it was all over the TVand so I made up a nice display
and it's hanging in the hallsat the VFW.
But we were honored to do thatand that's the first time I did
a funeral for a Medal of Honorrecipient.
(55:36):
The Medal of Honor started inLincoln's time, in 1865 or
before, and I think there's onlybeen 2,500 to 3,000 Medal of
Honors given, so it's a prettysmall percentage.
So it's an honor to have done afuneral for a Medal of honors
given.
So it's a pretty smallpercentage.
So it's an honor to have done afuneral for a medal of honor
recipient.
(55:56):
All the guys that I've donefunerals with have never done a
medal of honor recipient,because we've done a lot in
Bushnell, florida, which is ahuge cemetery.
It's over 500 acres and I don'tknow how many graves are there
Wow, so you got to welcome himhome and lay him to rest.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, wow, so you continue your life of service
even though you're retired, andyou're still working with the
VFW and other organizations yeah.
We've covered a lot in thisinterview over the last hour.
Is there anything that wehaven't talked about that you
wanted to share?
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Boy, you've come up with some really good questions.
I'm sure I'll think ofsomething after you leave and we
separate.
Everyone does, by the way, yeah, yeah, well, you know, I just
think back as a boy.
I was a Boy Scout and I lovedcamping as a boy.
I was a Boy Scout and I lovedcamping as a kid and I'd go over
to Staten Island, which theyfinally built that Verrazano
(56:59):
Bridge.
They said never could be donebecause the Verrazano Bridge is
from the main support to theother.
It's one mile, I clocked it.
It's one mile over water.
And when I grew up in New Yorkthey said they'd never be able
to build a bridge.
Well, never, say never.
But then I'd go camping overthere.
It was just one of our lovedBoy Scouts and I caddied a lot
(57:19):
as a kid on a golf course.
That was a good source ofincome.
It was hard work but, yeah, andI worked a lot of different
jobs, but I've been blessedreally, because you know I grew
up dirt, poor and struggling butwe've made it.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
It's got to be a good feeling to think about that and
to think about where you're attoday.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yeah, I felt very fortunate, you know, but I
always felt like there's anopportunity, you know, take it.
It might not come again, youknow.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Well, so a lot of what I've heard today cause
we've spent some time together,um, and not just in this
interview, but just in the timethat I've spent with you, and
you know, you say a lot of times, you know it just it just
happened, it just sort of cametogether, or it was just dumb
luck, or whatever.
Um, do you think, though, thatthat all the everything happens
for a reason, or?
Or do you think, though, thatthat all the everything happens
for a reason, or do you think itis just dumb luck?
Speaker 2 (58:15):
yeah, I'm sure god must have a hand in it, you know
.
Yeah, I mean, I look back mymistakes I've made, but uh, I
would.
I, you know, as far as theservice, I would do it again.
I don't know why more youngpeople don't you know, and uh,
it really the first thing younotice when you go in, it's not
you boys, you men.
And I said men, wow, and I wasso moved.
(58:36):
But when I stood and salutedthat flag of the United States
and I said wow, I mean it makesme tear up.
Just that moment was sopowerful, you know, and I don't
know if people never experiencethat, and I get so offended when
I see somebody flying a flagupside down or desecrating the
flag.
We're so fortunate to have thiswonderful country and the
(58:58):
freedoms.
I've been to so many othercountries and seen the poverty
and the sickness and the sorrowand the lack of, and I hear
people complain yeah, this isrough, yeah, but you've got
three cars, You've got a summercottage, You've got all kind of
insurance, You've got SocialSecurity, I mean, and here
you're complaining, here kidsget great education.
Just drive around Michigan andsee how beautiful this state is.
(59:18):
You know, yeah, Problems sure,we all have problems, but not
like other countries.
You saw some of thenitty-gritty about Russia and I
see on YouTube a lot.
Oh, my God, the lady's talkingto the apartment.
We haven't had heat here forsix months, you know, I mean
terrible.
65% of the people live inapartments and it's all
(59:43):
government-owned.
Yeah, I knew some people at theCap Center.
I went over to the Olympics orsomething someplace.
Anyway, when I was in Hawaii,the Rolling Stones sent us to
Hawaii on our weddinganniversary.
I let them use the Sky Suite,the radio station, so they gave
us a trip to Hawaii all expenses.
(01:00:04):
Wow, how nice.
It was wonderful and that wasour 25th anniversary.
So, anyway, I come back and Ihad some T-shirts what's that
triathlon thing they have thereto swim so far and so many miles
?
So I brought back some t-shirts.
Well, they went nuts and I gotto talk to this one girl.
She says look what I broughtback from Russia.
It was a big piece of toiletpaper.
(01:00:25):
I said so what's that?
She put it on the bulletinboard.
There were splinters of wood inthe toilet paper.
Russian toilet paper.
Yeah, Russian toilet paper.
What does that tell you?
That's rough.
Yeah, I mean some of the things.
You go to a hotel.
They have plenty of big cakes,of regular hard lye soap and all
, but they don't have any facialsoap Oversupply and this and
(01:00:48):
that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
It's crazy.
I have a question at the end ofan interview, and that is is
for someone listening to thisyears from now, when neither one
of us are still here what, whatword of advice would you give
to people or what would you wantthem to take away from the way
you've lived your life?
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
take an opportunity when you get it, you know, and
go for the gusto and just, ifyou think you can't do something
, you probably can't.
If you think you can, you dosomething.
You probably can't.
If you think you can, youprobably will.
But go for the gusto and don'tlet life pass you by.
I mean, no matter how old youare.
I'm 92 years old and I enjoylife to the fullest.
And why not?
(01:01:24):
And people say, well, I don'twant to live that long.
Wrong, I enjoy life.
This is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Well, great Well, thanks for sharing your
afternoon with me.
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