May 23, 2025 • 55 mins
From the battlefields of Vietnam to the highways of Michigan, Bill Walton's story is a remarkable journey through service, sacrifice, and resilience. Born in Lansing in 1948, Bill's path took an unexpected turn when he was drafted into military service in 1967. As a radio operator stationed near the DMZ in northern Vietnam, he faced the brutal realities of combat that would shape his perspective for decades to come.
The conversation takes us through Bill's harrowing experiences, including a serious shrapnel wound sustained during an intense battle at Cam Duck Special Forces Camp. Despite injuries that should have sent him home, Bill completed his full tour – "twelve months, two weeks" as he precisely recalls. His matter-of-fact descriptions of 68 days without changing uniforms and encountering death for the first time at just 18 years old offer a sobering glimpse into the realities faced by thousands of young Americans during the Vietnam conflict.
Upon returning home to a less-than-welcoming reception, Bill channeled his experiences into a career dedicated to public service. His journey through the rigorous Michigan State Police Academy – which he describes as even more challenging than military training – led to assignments across the state, from Detroit's tough Redford Post to his final position in Alpena. Throughout his law enforcement career, Bill worked patrol and narcotics, facing life-threatening situations that tested the resilience he'd developed in Vietnam.
Beyond his professional life, Bill shares touching personal stories – meeting his wife Mary through a humorous blind date mix-up that led to a 45-year marriage, raising two daughters, and now enjoying his role as grandfather to seven grandchildren. His post-retirement years continued the theme of service as he worked as a bailiff, probation officer, and volunteer firefighter.
Bill's straightforward storytelling, occasionally punctuated with unexpected humor, reveals a man who faced extraordinary circumstances with remarkable fortitude. His journey reminds us of the profound impact military service has on those who serve and the quiet heroism of individuals who choose to protect others despite personal cost. Listen to this powerful conversation with a true American hero whose life embodies service above self.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today is Thursday, may 22nd 2025.
We're talking with Bill Walton,who served in the United States
Army.
Well, good afternoon, bill.
Good afternoon, it's good tosee you today.
Good to see you too.
All right, we're going to startkind of simple.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Lansing, michigan.
Okay, 1948.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
All right.
And did you grow up in LansingMost of my life?
Yes, All right.
And did you grow up in LansingMost of my life?
Yes, All right.
Where in Lansing did you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
grow up Colonial Village, oh, off of.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Mount Hope, yeah Over by Dwight Rich School.
I think is over there now, Idon't know.
Might not have been there backin the day right?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
The golf course for the club.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh, the Lansing Country Club yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, it was just down the street.
We used to putt on their greens, did you, did they?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
know that.
No, Well, how many so?
Did you have brothers andsisters?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I had a brother, okay , and we think two more brothers
that died, but I don't know.
Okay, I don't even know if I'llfind him.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
All right that died, but I don't know.
I haven't been able to findthem.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Was your brother older than you or younger than
you?
I think I'm the youngest, sothey're all older, my brother's
six years older than me.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, and what do you recall about growing up in
Lansing?
At that time, do you rememberanything that you did as a kid?
I know you putted on thecountry club's greens for sure.
Anything else you remember?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, yeah, my life, I went to school there and all
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Okay, what was school like for you?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It was okay until the nuns started picking on us.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, okay, so you went to parochial school.
You went to Catholic school,unfortunately.
Okay, so you went to parochialschool.
You went to Catholic school,unfortunately.
Yes, okay, this was back in theday where they hit your
knuckles with a ruler too, isn'tit?
Were they dead, did they?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, we were picked on.
Uh-huh, if you were a littlebit like I, was a troublemaker,
we got picked on even worse.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I can't imagine that you were a troublemaker.
Yeah, what kind of trouble didyou get into in school.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, I hid behind the piano in one of our classes
and she walked in and lookedaround and said Okay, William,
come to me.
And I got spanked.
I think I don't know if shespanked me or my dad did, but
one of us got there, I gotspanked.
I think I don't know if shespanked me or my dad did, but
one of us got there, I gotspanked anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, now, did you go to a Catholic school throughout
school, okay, and did you playsports or anything like that in
school?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
In eighth grade I played football for our school,
okay, st Cashmere's.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay, I'm familiar with St Cashmere's.
I think there was St Cashmere'sand Resurrection was there no.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
St Cashmere's was out in South Lansing.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
And the other I don't know.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So did you play just that one year.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
No, I played two or three years there.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And how'd you like it ?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was all right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, were there any subjects in school that you
really enjoyed?
No, school wasn't your thing.
No, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I'd rather have gone out and did about anything
rather than spend time doinghomework and stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I see.
So what about your parents?
What can you tell me about yourmom and dad?
Anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
My dad worked at Osoville Uh-huh.
Mom worked for a doctor'soffice.
You know to do breaks and armbreaks and things like that
Broken bones I should say Okay,so was she a nurse then.
Or just she just worked there Adoctor?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh, your mom was a doctor, oh no.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
My mom was, she'd take the calls and set up the
appointments, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, and they both did that till they retired, or?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, my dad, my dad did it.
I think my dad died on the wayto work.
Oh, I think, okay, he died onthe way to work, but getting
ready for work he died in thebathroom.
Oh, had a heart attack and died.
Okay, so I've been without adad for a lot of years.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
How old were you when your dad passed away?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
How old?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
were you when your dad passed away, 14, 15 maybe,
oh, so you were a young guy yeah, all right, no, dad, no, I was
a baby Remember.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Oh, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I was a baby.
Yeah, okay, my memory'sstarting to leave me, so Believe
me, I have to wear a name tagmost of the time to remember who
I am.
So I'm 100% with you.
So you graduated high school.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And then?
So what happens after highschool?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I worked for a company that did shingling.
Okay, so I worked shinglinghouses.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And then, when did you end up joining the military?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I didn't join it.
Okay, let's talk about that.
I was drafted, you were drafted.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, okay Was.
This would have been what themid-60s then.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Would have been 67.
Okay, and were you?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
married at the time.
No, no, all right.
Where did you married at thetime?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
No, where did you go to basic training?
Fort Knox, okay.
And what do you remember aboutbasic training?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I don't know.
Okay, we just got up in themorning, did everything we had
to do and go to bed at night.
We knew about the last week ofour training where we were going
.
They gave it away.
They said you guys are.
I was a radio operator and Iwas carrying a radio for the
(06:00):
boss.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay, so when you left Fort, did you stay at Fort
Knox for the rest of yourtraining, or?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
No, I went to another post.
It was I hate to say it, it'sthe only way I remember it Fort
Puke, lausanne.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I know Fort Puke.
I know where you're talkingabout.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, it was a couple of weeks we spent there.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then we went to different places overseas.
Uh-huh, there was a guy thatwas with me right from the start
to the very end, lived in GrandRapids.
At the time His dad was a rangeofficer for Grand Rapids PD, so
him and I were best buds.
And then, when we went toVietnam, they split us up.
(06:46):
Okay, he went south towardsSaigon and I went north towards
the DMZ.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
All right.
And what kind of things did youdo in Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I carried a radio so I was constantly talking on the
radio.
I remember was constantlytalking on the radio.
I remember our training when Iwas still at Fort Knox and we
were involved in it.
(07:17):
But we didn't know what we weregetting into and he went, like
I said, he went south to Saigonand I went north to that DMZ.
We never saw each other untilmy wife died a few years ago.
When she died, I saw him.
I hadn't seen, I didn't knowwho he was.
You know, I hadn't seen him in50 years or whatever yeah, what
(07:40):
was it like seeing him again, ohit was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So have you met up with any ofyour other people that you
served with?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
No, Just him.
Yeah, we took a beating when Iwas in.
We lost a lot of guys, yeah, sowe didn't see them at all.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, what kind of unit were you in?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Infantry.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Infantry.
All right, so you were rightthere on the front line then.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Front line, middle line and then dragging up the
rear Right, Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, it wasn't a typical war, was it?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
No, well, I don't know, that was the only war I
ever knew, right, yep.
And in May 12, 68, I gotwounded and went back to a
hospital there and well, we had,we could walk.
They let us walk around.
(08:37):
If you were in crutches, youcould be on crutches and I could
walk.
And I see a guy and I went,maleko.
His name was Maleko Dave Maleko.
He was a year ahead of me inhigh school, played basketball
for our team for high school.
I said how the hell did you gethere Drafted?
(08:59):
So they weren't picky on whothey drafted Not saying that
he's picky.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
More than I was, because I knew who he was.
Uh-huh, I know we're in thesame situation, yet he was a
star in high school basketball,but that was kind of unique to
run into somebody you knew.
Yeah, millions well, notmillions thousands of guys were
over there and I run into a guythat I knew.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Kind of brings a little piece of home Kind of
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, that was kind of unique.
Yeah, one little story I gotshot in the leg or got fresh
wrapped around my legs and theytook us in off of an airplane,
not a helicopter.
We weren't picked up byhelicopters, we flew in in a
(09:57):
C-130.
And when we got there theypushed me.
I was awake enough that I knewwhat was going on.
We were up for about four orfive days and so they pushed me
over, had wheels on the cart.
They pushed me over to a triagearea and that triage area I
(10:21):
fell asleep and I commented tothe lady, the nurse, how tall
she was and she said how do youthink I'm tall?
I said, well, aren't you?
And she goes no, I'm like 5'5"or something like that.
And she said do you realizeyou're on the floor?
I got taken off with a gurneyonto a stretcher that's why I
(10:46):
was and I thought what a dumbass.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So you thought you were sitting way up here, right?
Well, yeah, well, I did, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I didn't know it.
I was out of it really.
So how did you get?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
your injury.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Shrapnel.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
We were in a battle up in a place called Cam Duck
Special Forces Camp and theykind of overran us there and a
lot of us died and a lot of usgot wounded.
Just about everybody was hurtin some way.
And that's my story about that.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, so from there did they just patch you up and
send you back.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Well, they told me that any where you break of a
femur was an automatic trip home.
It wasn't for me.
I still had to stay.
I was there for 12 months, twoweeks, I don't know.
I had it all down before.
(11:49):
I can't think of it now.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, I used to keep count of the minutes and the
seconds too.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, we had short time calendars.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh yeah.
So what did you do the rest ofyour time there then, after you
got wounded?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, I got sent, I thought I was going home and it
didn't heal too fast, and I'mstill complaining about that.
When I get hurt, I get hurtUsually right away I'm healed,
and so that's what happened, andI had to go back in the field
and I ended up spending my whole12 months I can't think of the
(12:30):
rest of it 12 months that Ispent in Vietnam Actually it was
12 and a half months.
I can't think of the rest of it12 months that I spent in
Vietnam Actually it was 12 and ahalf months.
12 months, six 12 months, twoweeks, I don't know.
I used to remember that.
Why wouldn't I remember it?
Anyway, that's.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Okay, and then anything else happened there
that you want to talk about?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And then you anything else happen there that you want
to talk about?
Well, I saw.
I had never seen a dead bodybefore.
That was the first time in mylife I ever saw any dead bodies.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
All right, well, talk to me about that.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It was different because I had never seen death.
All my buddies one of them, oneof my buddies' dad died when we
were in high school.
But I don't remember it at all,I don't remember being there or
anything.
But I get to Vietnam and I'mseeing death all over the place,
you know.
So I had nothing to no way tohandle that and, being a kid, I
(13:32):
was just 18.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, so that really kind of changes how you
think about things, doesn't it?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
In fact, I went home.
When I went home, I stoppedover at my best friend's house
and he says where have you been?
Like he didn't know, like hejust was screwing with me?
Yeah, yeah, you're right, Ididn't know.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
But so were there a lot of people, a lot of your
friends.
Did they get drafted as well,or was it just Just me and the
group.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, a couple of guys in our little group signed
up for it.
One stayed stateside.
I don't know what happened tothe other one.
Okay, as far as I know I canremember, I was the only one
actually in combat out of thatgroup.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
What was it like to come home after that?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Surreal, you know, you think people are going to
treat you well and we weren'ttreated very well, so we
couldn't say stuff that wewanted to say because it wasn't
polite or whatever.
Right, you know, and that washard.
You have to deal with traumaslike that.
(15:00):
Yeah, you know, we made fun ofit.
We tried to and we tried to.
Well, we tried to put ourselvesout of that, you know, and I
(15:20):
did.
I went right back to work andthen one of my best friends
joined up, got in the statepolice and he was home.
His dad was a builder.
We're coming and going all thetime with the job.
Tommy would come home in themiddle of the week and we'd go
(15:43):
get drunk and do stuff.
We look back on it, or I lookback on it, and I think that was
a lot of wasted time and hesaid why don't you join up?
You know they're hiring now.
So I did and everything.
I got in and I spent my careerin there.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So talk to me a little bit about joining the
state police.
I know that the program is verydifficult to get through.
It's almost like going back, orit's actually, I think, worse
in some ways than going back to.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
There's nothing I can compare to it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, my grandson.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
He's a good kid and strong, and he went through it
good.
I don't know if I could havethe picture he had of it.
I could have not the way he thepicture he had of us.
And I also told him when youget your badge, your mother's to
pin that on you, right?
(16:40):
So, and I didn't, he come upand gave me the badge.
I said, no, it's your mom's job.
Yeah, no, I want you to do it,so I'm fiddling around with it.
I said come on, aaron, put iton, you must have been very
proud.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, so talk to me about your career with the state
police.
What do you remember about thetraining program and the
decision that you made?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I didn't know I'd have to be pounded like we did.
That was one of the toughesttrainings I'd ever been in.
Eric was telling that's mygrandson, that's the cop now.
He said that that's like thethird most training in the
nation.
Michigan State Police.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's the best training you know.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
It's several months too, isn't it Months?
I think it's like 16 weeks orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, 17 weeks.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, and so you made that decision.
And was there any point duringyour training where you thought
maybe you'd made the wrongdecision?
Mm-hmm, lots of times.
Yeah, and so you made thatdecision.
And was there any point duringyour training where you thought
maybe you'd made the wrongdecision?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Mm-hmm Lots of times.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Boxing was one and luckily I had enough wherewithal
to do what I had to do and youknow you don't want to hurt
somebody because you're going tobe working for it.
And as it worked out, we werein alphabetic order we started
110 and graduated 51, and onedidn't get off probation.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Wow, so that's a pretty big failure rate.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Did they still have the swim test?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh yeah, Called it the death swim.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, I understand that's very difficult.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Well, it wasn't so bad for me because I loved to
swim, but there was plenty oftimes that I was thinking what
the hell am I doing here?
You know, and where they hadthe academy there in East
Lansing, at the old barracksyeah, I was 15 minutes and I was
home and that played on me formade me think things through.
(19:04):
Yeah, because I can leave herein a heartbeat and be out of
here.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Now.
Did you go home on the weekends, though, or were you there the
whole time?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Not at the beginning.
We stayed there for the wholething and then it changed.
We got to go home if we didgood during that week, and it
had to be everybody.
If somebody was screwing off,you had to help them get out of
it because you wanted to go home.
So that was tough to come home.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
What do you think your favorite part about the
initial training was?
What did you really enjoy?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I don't know if I enjoyed anything, because I'm
not very smart and you get a lotof things that you think back
on.
How the hell did I get throughthat?
And then we had a year ofprobation.
They don't have that now, dothey?
No, we had a year of probation,so we rode with somebody for a
(20:08):
year.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, what was your first duty for the state police?
Where were you at?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Detroit, 7 Mountain, grand River, okay, the old
Redford Post.
Then I told the post commandersomething I probably shouldn't
have said to him.
And next thing I know it was ona holiday.
And next thing I know I'm beingtransferred to Ypsilanti.
That's where she was born,ypsi's Hospital.
(20:39):
But I got out of Detroit justby calling him.
I said some things I probablywouldn't have said, you know, I
mean, he was a bastard.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
That's a tough post anyway, the Redford post, isn't
it?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, because we had so many townships around there
at that time.
Yeah, In fact, they pheasanthunted.
If you headed west towardsNorthville, they had hay fields
that had pheasants in them.
You could hunt pheasants there.
That's the last place I huntedpheasants in them.
You could hunt pheasants there.
That's the last place I huntedpheasants in this state Was
(21:19):
there?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, it's still pretty rural.
It was pretty rural back then.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
One of the old-timers that was there said you could
shoot a rifle and it would hitPlymouth State Home and Training
before we'd get out of the post.
I mean it was, it's just theway they talked about it.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So how was the IPSI post for you?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Riot.
I enjoyed that every minute ofit.
We were not every minute.
We were involved in a coupleshootings and things like that.
It was neat.
You knew what police work was,and if you didn't, you learned
fast.
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
So when you were there in Ypsilanti, did they
have the motorcycle club there?
There's a clubhouse there now,but there's a post there, right
that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
But they moved out, I think.
Okay, it used to be in downtownYpsilanti, right across from
the bank.
There's a drive.
Yeah, that Harlan's grocerieswas on the other side of the
post and then the post was therewe had, we were all jammed in.
It was.
You know, that was the biggestpost in the state at that time.
(22:38):
Well, there was 10 or 12detectives that worked out of
the airport.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah and so what you do, were you still patrolling at
this point?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
What do you recall?
Maybe one of the things thatyou remember most about being an
Ipsy.
Is there anything in particular?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, one thing my wife come home or I come home
from work and she was in theroom crying.
I said what's wrong?
She says I had a lady banginginto me with a cart when I was
checking out.
I said why don't you turnaround and belt her?
Oh, I'm not that kind of youknow.
So that one got to me and shesaid I want out of here.
(23:20):
I put a letter in and it was awhile a year or two I think
before I got out of there, andthat was when my father died.
Mary was still alive, but myfather died, and he's the one we
.
He was, I don't know, he was myrock.
(23:41):
If I needed something I'dalways ask him.
Good man.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That must have been very hard for you.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It was.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So when you left Ypsilanti, where did you go from
there?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Lansing.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I worked out of the Lansing Post and then I was
there for a year or two I don'tknow, I can't remember.
And next thing I know well, Iworked narcotics.
So I was all over the state.
We were working at differentpost areas.
We worked at both.
We did what they called.
(24:19):
I can't think what they calledit, but we'd work.
There would be a say PD,weberville had a PD and they
couldn't do anythingmanpower-wise, so we'd have to
get in there and do it for them.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, they had the teams right Right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
That was the start of the teams.
We had narcotics teams andinvestigative teams and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, they had sweat down by Battle Creek and they
had magnet up here, Sweat downby Battle Creek and they had
Magnet up here and up in Ipsy itwas Huron area undercover.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I forgot what it was.
It was a word that we madewords out of that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I can't think what it was they all had an acronym
that made a word.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I remember that but and that's where we retired we
stayed there, and I think Jennywas born in Lansing when we were
stationed there, so both thekids were with me when we went
to Alpena.
Okay, that's the post I workedout until I retired.
(25:28):
Now you have two children, thenTwo girls.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Okay, well, well, tell me about your daughters.
I know one of them's standinghere, so you got to be nice, but
uh.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
They're good kids, yeah, they um Couldn't do
anything wrong, though, becauseevery time they'd do something
wrong I'd catch them or I'd betold by one of the guys.
I saw your daughter here theother day, so they couldn't have
freedom really could you?
(25:59):
No.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
It's like being a minister's child, I think.
Yes, same sort of thing, yeahit could be.
Yeah, and so when did youretire from the state police?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You remember 97.
Was it 97.
?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Okay, and what did you do after retirement?
Because you were still a prettyyoung guy in 97.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, I got a job.
I had a son-in-law and I thatwould.
We started a little business oftaking people up in the
mountains on horseback.
That was one thing, and thenthat didn't work out very well.
So Bailiff, huh, bailiff, ohyeah, the sheriff wanted some
(26:43):
help.
So he asked me if I'd be abailiff.
I said only if I can getOctober off, and he let me get
off.
And then I got a job withprobation, worked for a judge in
Ocona County.
Kids that were on, you know badkids.
I'd check on them and talk tothem and try to make them work
(27:05):
and get getting out of thisstuff, but a lot of them the
parents were the reason the kidswere so scrappy.
Right, I never saw that in myother jobs before really.
I mean, I knew it happened butI never saw it like I did there.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
You think you were able to help some of those kids.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I tried.
Yeah, you know, I had a kid ina dugout.
This was over in Barton City.
There's a dugout in a field andhe was down in there.
When I saw him, he was with agirl down in there and I said
what are you doing with her inhere?
None of your business, oh really.
So I grabbed ahold of him and Ithink that was the start of his
(27:47):
change in life, because I wasgoing to peel him.
But he, you know, treat him tobeing nice.
What are you in there for?
You weren't talking baseball,were you?
You know it was like that, butI did that for quite a few years
, I'd say 10 years or more.
You were also a fireman.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Oh, you were a firefighter too.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
You name it, I did it .
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, yeah, was that local then.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, sanborn Township, it was Asinik.
It's 10 miles south of Alpena,a little bird called Asinik, and
that was Sanborn Township.
That's where our firedepartment was right at that
intersection of 23 and NicholsonHill.
Okay, I didn't drive the firetruck only a couple of times
(28:43):
because I was so far out Right,but I could get to the fire and
get it sized up by the time thefire truck got there.
Then we got another fire truckand then we got a tanker.
So it's really a good.
I think it's the best in thestate, because when we had
training, everybody showed up.
We didn't get paid for trainingor anything Right, we did later
(29:07):
, but we didn't get paid fortraining or anything Right, we
did later but we didn't backthen.
So we did that.
We were good.
We saved a lot of buildings.
I had one of the troops inAlpena say well, I see you saved
another basement.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I didn't think cops and firemen got along, so how
did you work that out?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I was always taking stuff, crap from them,
especially the firemen or thecops when I was a fireman.
Yeah, just tell them to shut upand leave me alone or whatever
I don't remember just whathappened, but I love some of
those guys.
You know one of them and I wereinvolved in a shooting and, uh,
(29:54):
you know you get kind of tightwith somebody when you're
throwing light at each other canyou tell me about that, about
the shooting.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
What do you recall about that?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
How God protected me.
I should have been dead.
I was running up when he pulledthe gun out.
He had a sawed-off shotgun.
I thought I'm done here.
I knew it and I started runningback towards the car.
I think when he fired I hadunburned burn powder in my eyes.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
that's how close I was other than that you weren't
injured, though no well he wasyeah, we only that one, and we
had one.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I think we had one in Alpena a shooting, but it
wasn't like that my shooting.
Oh, the Ipsy.
We had a shooting in Ipsy too.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What do you remember about that one?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
God won, he lost Obviously.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
At the end of the day that's kind of what matters,
isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I was sleeping on the couch because my wife was
having her.
Oh, they were sleeping on thecouch and my wife never, ever,
ever slept in.
She was always up early.
And I went into therefrigerator and got some orange
juice and some vodka and I gotplastered.
Because that's the first timesince Vietnam that anybody got
(31:38):
hurt because of me, I'll be niceand call it hurt.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's tough, as a veteran and even as a police
officer, to kind of reconcile,that, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
You always wonder if he did right, especially when he
went down.
I thought, oh boy, this is goingto be some reports here.
But luckily, you know, we seethere were four of us.
Two came on the car, the badguy car, and then two of them
started running, or one did.
(32:15):
Name was Hill.
He ran down and our guys chasedafter him and caught him.
He didn't know there were twoup above.
It was down on the freeway backup from the edge of the where it
was all chained from the fence,and when we got there I had a
recruit and we got there and hewas shooting.
(32:39):
I said give me the gun.
And I got it from him.
And then I dropped one on himand told him hello, got it from
him.
And then I dropped one on himand said told him hello, you
know, that one, that one, thatone didn't hit home because he
we found out later that the gunshe had on him, one was taken
from a Pittsburgh police officerthat was killed in the line of
(33:02):
duty and the other was asawed-off shotgun.
That was Oklahoma State Police.
So he killed at least two otherpeople that we could trace back
that were him from him.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Definitely a bad guy.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh yeah, I didn't mind that at all.
You know some of it.
When you're involved in ashooting, it kind of you wonder
if you're hoping it's right.
You don't want to be doinganything wrong like that, where
this was no doubt about it, thisone.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Pretty cut and dry.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, there's always thatlittle voice in the back of your
head that makes you wonder ifyou did the right thing or not.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, but Could be.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, because he was no good.
Yeah, so you.
It sounds like you did a lot ofdifferent things.
How did you end up here inHarrison?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
My wife wanted to be by for the kids Wanted to be by
a lake and one of the prettiestlakes in the state is Hubbard
Lake.
But that wasn't what she wanted.
She wanted something away fromthat, something where I would be
home most of the time goingwhen we were dating and stuff.
(34:19):
I was always off doingsomething else and she got tired
of that, wouldn't you say.
And so we got here and we had afarm, we had farm animals and
stuff and had to give all thatup for this.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, how did you meet your wife?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That's kind of a funny story really.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh, I gotta hear this .
Speaker 2 (34:46):
We were the troops and I had a.
I can't think of the name ofthe Italian restaurant in
Lansing Emil's Emil's.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, right on Michigan Ave there.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, it was on Michigan.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Emil's Emil's West.
Yeah, emil's yep.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
One of the guys in my recruit school.
We were still in recruit school, well, actually we were in
retread school and he set it upfor a bunch of girls from the
bank to come to that and I waswith all these girls and stuff
and we're all milling aroundlooking for mates.
(35:26):
I guess, yeah, these girls andstuff and we're all milling
around looking for mates.
I guess, yeah, and uh, I thinkit was a while later I went to
the, went to a party.
Well, I met her at this, atemails, and uh, I talked to her
on the phone and and I said, doyou want to go out?
(35:48):
She said yes, and when I gotthere to pick her up it wasn't
her.
I had the names mixed up.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Well, we dated for a little while and finally that
girl wanted to become astewardess.
And so my wife, well, mary,came up and said you want to go
see a movie with me?
I'll pay for it.
I said well, how do you turnthat down, right?
So I did and didn't, and we met.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
But Mary was the girl you meant to call at first,
right, but you called the wronggirl.
Yeah, so you just dated heranyway.
Yeah, why not?
She's a girl.
Yeah, so you just dated her.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Anyway.
Yeah, why not?
She's a girl.
Yeah, yeah, why not?
I'm thinking they all got thesame parts.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Well, mostly yes.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
That was how I met her.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Uh-huh.
So she took you out on a date.
Yeah, okay, and then it was.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I never dated after that.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, did you know pretty early on that you wanted
to marry her, or did it take alittle while?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I don't know.
We were building a place overin Island Lake off of Meredith.
Are you familiar with that?
I am not 18, it's north ofClaire, her, gladwin.
Okay, we met there and what wasI talking about?
You were talking about you andyour dad building the house.
(37:16):
Oh yeah, and she helped.
I was out doing hunting with mydogs and something, and she's
back home or back at our place,uh-huh.
And she my dad said when wewere getting ready to wash it up
, because he dug this big holefor the well and I should have
(37:39):
been helping him, but I didn't.
I was out bird hunting, which Ilike to do, and so I I don't
know Dad says this is your girl,you've got to marry this girl.
I said why do you say that?
I was free and dating lots ofpeople at the time.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Even girls you didn't mean to date.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Well, that one was for sure that, Because when I
walked into her house I knockedon the door.
She lived in an apartment inEast Lansing.
I knocked on the door and shelet me in and I'm looking around
.
I didn't want to be stupid andsay, because I thought her name
was Mary Right, and I knew that,but I didn't know who she was.
(38:25):
And when I went to pick her up,Mary's Mary wasn't there yeah.
I'm trying to figure out.
How am I gonna get out of thisway?
So your dad?
figured out that Mary was thegirl for you yep uh-huh because
she worked all day digging upthat hole to put that wellhead
in there.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
So did you take your dad's advice, or did you wait a
little while?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nope, Told my dad's advice and we started dating
more and more each.
I mean, she was still workingin Lansing, I was in Ipsy, so on
my days off I'd go get her andwe'd go dance.
You know whatever we wanted todo, and that worked out pretty
well.
I guess, go get her and we'd godance you know, whatever we
wanted to do, and that workedout pretty well, I guess.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yeah, how long were you married?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Oh man, 45 years 45 years.
She was dead right here in thefloor, the living room.
She died right in here.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
What happened?
I don't know.
I think it was a heart attack,okay, she died right in here.
What happened?
I don't know.
I think it was a heart attack,okay, and how long ago was that?
21.
Oh, okay, so not too long ago.
Yeah, she had just celebratedher birthday and then, a few
days later, she was gone.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Okay, all right, there's something good out of
everything bad.
I got to see my daughter that Idon't hardly ever see Erin's
close to home, but Jenniferisn't.
She's out in Utah, yeah, orIdaho, whatever one.
She was at Idaho first.
She's a PA.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Physician's assistant .
Speaker 2 (40:12):
When she worked for the first doctor after school
she did a lot of she was doing.
When they cut them off, theydid that.
What's it called the fat people?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
The bariatric surgery .
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
So she got that.
I think I lost my train ofthought.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
We were talking about her living out in Idaho and
being a yeah, and she was ableto come home.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, I got to see her when I worked out there.
I saw her all the time.
She'd make the food for us upin the mountains and stuff.
That was kind of neat and thatfell on deaf ears so it was
tough.
It was a tough one.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, now you have grandchildren too, right?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Almost great-grandchildren.
Yeah, that's what I heard.
So how many grandchildren doyou have?
Grandchildren too, right?
Almost great-grandchildren?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah, that's what I heard.
So how many grandchildren doyou have?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Seven.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
And three step.
Oh okay, that's a big family,and then you have a
great-grandchild on the way.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Born in August.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay.
Do we know if it's a boy or agirl Boy?
Oh, maybe another hunter in thefamily.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Maybe Her husband.
I got him a shotgun a whileback because he's been helping
with me with here and stuff, andher too.
Everything she wants, I try togive it to him, and that makes
things a lot easier for me yeah,it's always good to have some
(41:54):
help yeah, and like Jim's, Ithink he was mowing I'm.
I just had surgery a coupleweeks ago.
I know what's it calledpostrate and the shaved one and
(42:14):
I'm still recuperating, really Iguess, from that.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, so that wasn't fun no, no, if it was fun,
everyone would do it.
It's definitely not fun no notat all.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Hardest thing I ever had to go through.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
You know, when I got wounded, that wasn't no very big
thing.
Anyway, I got cold milk,something I hadn't had in months
.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
For people who never served in the military.
It's funny that you mentionedcold milk, because for me that
was like when I could get coldmilk, especially cold chocolate
milk.
It was a big deal, because youjust don't get it in the field
Everything's we used to get foodbrought out in these things
called mermite cans.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
It would be like chicken and some mashed potatoes
and gravy, and they wouldalways have little cartons of
milk when they did that, whichwas maybe three times in my
times in the field.
Well, when I went to thehospital and got walking, I
walked into the mess hall.
Cold milk, great big ball atthe bottom of this rubber hose.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Filled up my coffee cup with milk and all the other
stuff in there and there wassome Oriental Vietnamese washing
dishes and cleaning up andstuff.
I wasn't very pleasant towardsthose kind of people because I'd
been hurt by him and I saw himkill people.
I know that that's war.
(43:53):
That's what the war is about, Iguess, and I didn't like that
at all.
But I was drinking the milk andI'd get another glass or a cup
that brown wooden trays Rememberthem?
I do, and the cup was forcoffee but I drank milk and I
(44:15):
couldn't even eat because Idrank so much milk and my
stomach had shrunk.
Somebody said they thoughtthat's what had happened because
it came up.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, if you haven't had that kind of food in a long
time, it'll definitely.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I don't know if you're familiar with C-rations,
but that's what we ate when wewere in the field.
It's the crappiest stuff youever did see, and some of it was
dated in 42.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, world War II stuff right, yeah yeah.
When I came into the military,the C-rations were going away
and they had the MREs, the meals, ready to eat in the big
plastic bags, which, by the way,were probably not much better
oh yeah, anything is better thanthose C-rations.
(45:02):
Yeah, they were awful now, didthose have cigarettes in them?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
yeah, and guys would light them and they were gone.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
That's because they were old.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, they were very dry.
I would say that's what madethem burn so fast.
I didn't smoke, so it didn'tmatter to me, right.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
What kind of food for anyone listening?
What kind of food would be in aC-Ration?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Well, they had some specialty things.
One was spaghetti.
That was probably the best.
Then we had something with limabeans in it.
Well, there's three things Idon't eat.
Lima beans is one of them.
But you had to eat them, right,otherwise you didn't get
anything.
But you had to eat them,otherwise you didn't get
anything.
And there was something, oh,pork and beans.
(45:54):
that was another one this allcame in cans right it had a
little P you know what a P38 isand we'd open them with that,
bend it up and use that for ahandle.
And then we'd take the C4 thatyou had in the mines what do
(46:14):
they call them?
Oh, the claymore, claymore.
Yeah, we'd pick the glue or theC4 out of that, light it and
then heat our C rations.
And I remember one time we hadput them out at night because we
always put those out at nightand the facing out and there was
(46:40):
nothing, nothing to do, andtheir guys were popping Seymour,
claymores.
You know, we were in a,somebody was checking us to see
how many there was of us, and sowe're trying to kill him with
claymores Claymore mines yeah.
And you hear pop, because weused all the C4 for lighting our
(47:02):
meals.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Well, maybe you scared him to death.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well, most of the time they wouldn't come in, yeah
, but then once in a whilethere'd be a fully intact
claymore that would make itrumble the ground, but I
remember the times when it wouldjust bang.
You're thinking where?
The hell did that come from, Imean in my early days there,
(47:29):
afterwards it was you were usedto all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Did you find it was kind of amazing what you get
used to yes, you know comparedto like when you first get there
and by the time you leave it's.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
We went 68 days without changing uniforms, 68
days that I'll never forget.
And I was a radio operator, soa lot of times I'm writing on my
pants or my you know, becausein the rain you can't use paper
for coordinates and things.
(48:02):
So you'd use, you know, writeon my clothes and the goose or
the bad guys would smell us.
They had to have smelled us, Imean, we were awful.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yeah, but you all stunk.
So I mean no one, really no wedidn't know it.
You didn't know it, you werenose blind at that point.
Yeah, that's a long time, butit's hot and sweaty.
Oh yeah, in the jungle 68 days.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I'll never forget that, even with my loss of
memory I can remember that.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
So were you on patrol for that whole 68 days then.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
I didn't go on patrol much because I had the radio.
There was a time or two that Ihad to go.
The boss said you have to goout once in a while.
That was okay.
I didn't have any problem in it.
I never did any leading away oranything like that.
We had guys that did that.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Well, you don't want to put your radio operator out
front anyway.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Well, when I went to basic and then I got into AIT, I
walked into the classroom andthere was a big nine on the
chalkboard.
Nine, and it was a few days wewere in there and finally
somebody said hey, sarge, what'sthat nine for?
(49:24):
It took you guys long enough toask.
He says that's how long you'regoing to be living when you get
in a firefight.
It's nine minutes, wow.
So we kind of buckled downafter that and didn't screw off.
We wanted to get our trainingin.
So we knew what we were gettinginto.
And the main thing that wasbecause of.
(49:45):
I mean, it just wasn't.
We didn't have the opportunityto change clothes, right, we
didn't carry extra clothes, wecarried food, if we carried
anything.
Extra Water was another thing.
The mom used to send Kool-Aidthat's by itself, yeah.
(50:08):
And then you shake it up inyour canteen and I mean it
tasted like shit anyway.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
But this tasted like cherry shit, right, or grape
shit, or whatever flavor it wasWhatever it was.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
yeah, it was awful.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, I don't know what they do to the water in war
, but it's yeah, it's never.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Well, we used to get these bladders, probably as big
as this table, with littlespigots yeah, like three little
spigots on the side, and thatwater tasted just as what that
rubber looked like.
It must have tasted like that.
Well, it did, because finally,you know, you had to drink it.
They'd bring that, a helicoptercould bring that in, set it
(50:48):
down and we'd all get our waterand then away it'd go.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah, yeah, and they'd sit out in the sun and
get all nice and warm.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
They made it nice for us, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, anything else about yourtime in the military you want to
talk about, or anything elsethat comes to mind that you'd
like to share?
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I don't know you think of anything?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I don't think so Okay , well, for anyone listening to
this in the future, what messagewould you like to leave for
people?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Probably that I love them.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
All right, all right, bill.
Well, thanks for spending anafternoon with me here.
I appreciate it.
Today is Thursday, may 22nd 2025.
We're talking with Bill Walton,who served in the United States
Army.
Well, good afternoon, bill.
Good afternoon, it's good tosee you today.
Good to see you too.
All right, we're going to startkind of simple.
When and where were you born?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Lansing, michigan.
Okay, 1948.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
All right.
And did you grow up in LansingMost of my life?
Yes, All right.
And did you grow up in LansingMost of my life?
Yes, All right.
Where in Lansing did you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
grow up Colonial Village, oh, off of.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Mount Hope, yeah Over by Dwight Rich School.
I think is over there now, Idon't know.
Might not have been there backin the day right?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
The golf course for the club.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh, the Lansing Country Club yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, it was just down the street.
We used to putt on their greens, did you, did they?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
know that.
No, Well, how many so?
Did you have brothers andsisters?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I had a brother, okay , and we think two more brothers
that died, but I don't know.
Okay, I don't even know if I'llfind him.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
All right that died, but I don't know.
I haven't been able to findthem.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Was your brother older than you or younger than
you?
I think I'm the youngest, sothey're all older, my brother's
six years older than me.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, and what do you recall about growing up in
Lansing?
At that time, do you rememberanything that you did as a kid?
I know you putted on thecountry club's greens for sure.
Anything else you remember?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, yeah, my life, I went to school there and all
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Okay, what was school like for you?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It was okay until the nuns started picking on us.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, okay, so you went to parochial school.
You went to Catholic school,unfortunately.
Okay, so you went to parochialschool.
You went to Catholic school,unfortunately.
Yes, okay, this was back in theday where they hit your
knuckles with a ruler too, isn'tit?
Were they dead, did they?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, we were picked on.
Uh-huh, if you were a littlebit like I, was a troublemaker,
we got picked on even worse.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I can't imagine that you were a troublemaker.
Yeah, what kind of trouble didyou get into in school.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, I hid behind the piano in one of our classes
and she walked in and lookedaround and said Okay, William,
come to me.
And I got spanked.
I think I don't know if shespanked me or my dad did, but
one of us got there, I gotspanked.
I think I don't know if shespanked me or my dad did, but
one of us got there, I gotspanked anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, now, did you go to a Catholic school throughout
school, okay, and did you playsports or anything like that in
school?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
In eighth grade I played football for our school,
okay, st Cashmere's.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay, I'm familiar with St Cashmere's.
I think there was St Cashmere'sand Resurrection was there no.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
St Cashmere's was out in South Lansing.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
And the other I don't know.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So did you play just that one year.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
No, I played two or three years there.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And how'd you like it ?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was all right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, were there any subjects in school that you
really enjoyed?
No, school wasn't your thing.
No, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I'd rather have gone out and did about anything
rather than spend time doinghomework and stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I see.
So what about your parents?
What can you tell me about yourmom and dad?
Anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
My dad worked at Osoville Uh-huh.
Mom worked for a doctor'soffice.
You know to do breaks and armbreaks and things like that
Broken bones I should say Okay,so was she a nurse then.
Or just she just worked there Adoctor?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh, your mom was a doctor, oh no.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
My mom was, she'd take the calls and set up the
appointments, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, and they both did that till they retired, or?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, my dad, my dad did it.
I think my dad died on the wayto work.
Oh, I think, okay, he died onthe way to work, but getting
ready for work he died in thebathroom.
Oh, had a heart attack and died.
Okay, so I've been without adad for a lot of years.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
How old were you when your dad passed away?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
How old?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
were you when your dad passed away, 14, 15 maybe,
oh, so you were a young guy yeah, all right, no, dad, no, I was
a baby Remember.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Oh, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I was a baby.
Yeah, okay, my memory'sstarting to leave me, so Believe
me, I have to wear a name tagmost of the time to remember who
I am.
So I'm 100% with you.
So you graduated high school.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And then?
So what happens after highschool?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I worked for a company that did shingling.
Okay, so I worked shinglinghouses.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And then, when did you end up joining the military?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I didn't join it.
Okay, let's talk about that.
I was drafted, you were drafted.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, okay Was.
This would have been what themid-60s then.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Would have been 67.
Okay, and were you?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
married at the time.
No, no, all right.
Where did you married at thetime?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
No, where did you go to basic training?
Fort Knox, okay.
And what do you remember aboutbasic training?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I don't know.
Okay, we just got up in themorning, did everything we had
to do and go to bed at night.
We knew about the last week ofour training where we were going
.
They gave it away.
They said you guys are.
I was a radio operator and Iwas carrying a radio for the
(06:00):
boss.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay, so when you left Fort, did you stay at Fort
Knox for the rest of yourtraining, or?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
No, I went to another post.
It was I hate to say it, it'sthe only way I remember it Fort
Puke, lausanne.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I know Fort Puke.
I know where you're talkingabout.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, it was a couple of weeks we spent there.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then we went to different places overseas.
Uh-huh, there was a guy thatwas with me right from the start
to the very end, lived in GrandRapids.
At the time His dad was a rangeofficer for Grand Rapids PD, so
him and I were best buds.
And then, when we went toVietnam, they split us up.
(06:46):
Okay, he went south towardsSaigon and I went north towards
the DMZ.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
All right.
And what kind of things did youdo in Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I carried a radio so I was constantly talking on the
radio.
I remember was constantlytalking on the radio.
I remember our training when Iwas still at Fort Knox and we
were involved in it.
(07:17):
But we didn't know what we weregetting into and he went, like
I said, he went south to Saigonand I went north to that DMZ.
We never saw each other untilmy wife died a few years ago.
When she died, I saw him.
I hadn't seen, I didn't knowwho he was.
You know, I hadn't seen him in50 years or whatever yeah, what
(07:40):
was it like seeing him again, ohit was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So have you met up with any ofyour other people that you
served with?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
No, Just him.
Yeah, we took a beating when Iwas in.
We lost a lot of guys, yeah, sowe didn't see them at all.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, what kind of unit were you in?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Infantry.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Infantry.
All right, so you were rightthere on the front line then.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Front line, middle line and then dragging up the
rear Right, Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, it wasn't a typical war, was it?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
No, well, I don't know, that was the only war I
ever knew, right, yep.
And in May 12, 68, I gotwounded and went back to a
hospital there and well, we had,we could walk.
They let us walk around.
(08:37):
If you were in crutches, youcould be on crutches and I could
walk.
And I see a guy and I went,maleko.
His name was Maleko Dave Maleko.
He was a year ahead of me inhigh school, played basketball
for our team for high school.
I said how the hell did you gethere Drafted?
(08:59):
So they weren't picky on whothey drafted Not saying that
he's picky.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
More than I was, because I knew who he was.
Uh-huh, I know we're in thesame situation, yet he was a
star in high school basketball,but that was kind of unique to
run into somebody you knew.
Yeah, millions well, notmillions thousands of guys were
over there and I run into a guythat I knew.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Kind of brings a little piece of home Kind of
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, that was kind of unique.
Yeah, one little story I gotshot in the leg or got fresh
wrapped around my legs and theytook us in off of an airplane,
not a helicopter.
We weren't picked up byhelicopters, we flew in in a
(09:57):
C-130.
And when we got there theypushed me.
I was awake enough that I knewwhat was going on.
We were up for about four orfive days and so they pushed me
over, had wheels on the cart.
They pushed me over to a triagearea and that triage area I
(10:21):
fell asleep and I commented tothe lady, the nurse, how tall
she was and she said how do youthink I'm tall?
I said, well, aren't you?
And she goes no, I'm like 5'5"or something like that.
And she said do you realizeyou're on the floor?
I got taken off with a gurneyonto a stretcher that's why I
(10:46):
was and I thought what a dumbass.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So you thought you were sitting way up here, right?
Well, yeah, well, I did, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I didn't know it.
I was out of it really.
So how did you get?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
your injury.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Shrapnel.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
We were in a battle up in a place called Cam Duck
Special Forces Camp and theykind of overran us there and a
lot of us died and a lot of usgot wounded.
Just about everybody was hurtin some way.
And that's my story about that.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, so from there did they just patch you up and
send you back.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Well, they told me that any where you break of a
femur was an automatic trip home.
It wasn't for me.
I still had to stay.
I was there for 12 months, twoweeks, I don't know.
I had it all down before.
(11:49):
I can't think of it now.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, I used to keep count of the minutes and the
seconds too.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, we had short time calendars.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh yeah.
So what did you do the rest ofyour time there then, after you
got wounded?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, I got sent, I thought I was going home and it
didn't heal too fast, and I'mstill complaining about that.
When I get hurt, I get hurtUsually right away I'm healed,
and so that's what happened, andI had to go back in the field
and I ended up spending my whole12 months I can't think of the
(12:30):
rest of it 12 months that Ispent in Vietnam Actually it was
12 and a half months.
I can't think of the rest of it12 months that I spent in
Vietnam Actually it was 12 and ahalf months.
12 months, six 12 months, twoweeks, I don't know.
I used to remember that.
Why wouldn't I remember it?
Anyway, that's.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Okay, and then anything else happened there
that you want to talk about?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And then you anything else happen there that you want
to talk about?
Well, I saw.
I had never seen a dead bodybefore.
That was the first time in mylife I ever saw any dead bodies.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
All right, well, talk to me about that.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It was different because I had never seen death.
All my buddies one of them, oneof my buddies' dad died when we
were in high school.
But I don't remember it at all,I don't remember being there or
anything.
But I get to Vietnam and I'mseeing death all over the place,
you know.
So I had nothing to no way tohandle that and, being a kid, I
(13:32):
was just 18.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, so that really kind of changes how you
think about things, doesn't it?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
In fact, I went home.
When I went home, I stoppedover at my best friend's house
and he says where have you been?
Like he didn't know, like hejust was screwing with me?
Yeah, yeah, you're right, Ididn't know.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
But so were there a lot of people, a lot of your
friends.
Did they get drafted as well,or was it just Just me and the
group.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, a couple of guys in our little group signed
up for it.
One stayed stateside.
I don't know what happened tothe other one.
Okay, as far as I know I canremember, I was the only one
actually in combat out of thatgroup.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
What was it like to come home after that?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Surreal, you know, you think people are going to
treat you well and we weren'ttreated very well, so we
couldn't say stuff that wewanted to say because it wasn't
polite or whatever.
Right, you know, and that washard.
You have to deal with traumaslike that.
(15:00):
Yeah, you know, we made fun ofit.
We tried to and we tried to.
Well, we tried to put ourselvesout of that, you know, and I
(15:20):
did.
I went right back to work andthen one of my best friends
joined up, got in the statepolice and he was home.
His dad was a builder.
We're coming and going all thetime with the job.
Tommy would come home in themiddle of the week and we'd go
(15:43):
get drunk and do stuff.
We look back on it, or I lookback on it, and I think that was
a lot of wasted time and hesaid why don't you join up?
You know they're hiring now.
So I did and everything.
I got in and I spent my careerin there.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So talk to me a little bit about joining the
state police.
I know that the program is verydifficult to get through.
It's almost like going back, orit's actually, I think, worse
in some ways than going back to.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
There's nothing I can compare to it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, my grandson.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
He's a good kid and strong, and he went through it
good.
I don't know if I could havethe picture he had of it.
I could have not the way he thepicture he had of us.
And I also told him when youget your badge, your mother's to
pin that on you, right?
(16:40):
So, and I didn't, he come upand gave me the badge.
I said, no, it's your mom's job.
Yeah, no, I want you to do it,so I'm fiddling around with it.
I said come on, aaron, put iton, you must have been very
proud.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, so talk to me about your career with the state
police.
What do you remember about thetraining program and the
decision that you made?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I didn't know I'd have to be pounded like we did.
That was one of the toughesttrainings I'd ever been in.
Eric was telling that's mygrandson, that's the cop now.
He said that that's like thethird most training in the
nation.
Michigan State Police.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's the best training you know.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
It's several months too, isn't it Months?
I think it's like 16 weeks orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, 17 weeks.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, and so you made that decision.
And was there any point duringyour training where you thought
maybe you'd made the wrongdecision?
Mm-hmm, lots of times.
Yeah, and so you made thatdecision.
And was there any point duringyour training where you thought
maybe you'd made the wrongdecision?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Mm-hmm Lots of times.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Boxing was one and luckily I had enough wherewithal
to do what I had to do and youknow you don't want to hurt
somebody because you're going tobe working for it.
And as it worked out, we werein alphabetic order we started
110 and graduated 51, and onedidn't get off probation.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Wow, so that's a pretty big failure rate.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Did they still have the swim test?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh yeah, Called it the death swim.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, I understand that's very difficult.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Well, it wasn't so bad for me because I loved to
swim, but there was plenty oftimes that I was thinking what
the hell am I doing here?
You know, and where they hadthe academy there in East
Lansing, at the old barracksyeah, I was 15 minutes and I was
home and that played on me formade me think things through.
(19:04):
Yeah, because I can leave herein a heartbeat and be out of
here.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Now.
Did you go home on the weekends, though, or were you there the
whole time?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Not at the beginning.
We stayed there for the wholething and then it changed.
We got to go home if we didgood during that week, and it
had to be everybody.
If somebody was screwing off,you had to help them get out of
it because you wanted to go home.
So that was tough to come home.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
What do you think your favorite part about the
initial training was?
What did you really enjoy?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I don't know if I enjoyed anything, because I'm
not very smart and you get a lotof things that you think back
on.
How the hell did I get throughthat?
And then we had a year ofprobation.
They don't have that now, dothey?
No, we had a year of probation,so we rode with somebody for a
(20:08):
year.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, what was your first duty for the state police?
Where were you at?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Detroit, 7 Mountain, grand River, okay, the old
Redford Post.
Then I told the post commandersomething I probably shouldn't
have said to him.
And next thing I know it was ona holiday.
And next thing I know I'm beingtransferred to Ypsilanti.
That's where she was born,ypsi's Hospital.
(20:39):
But I got out of Detroit justby calling him.
I said some things I probablywouldn't have said, you know, I
mean, he was a bastard.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
That's a tough post anyway, the Redford post, isn't
it?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, because we had so many townships around there
at that time.
Yeah, In fact, they pheasanthunted.
If you headed west towardsNorthville, they had hay fields
that had pheasants in them.
You could hunt pheasants there.
That's the last place I huntedpheasants in them.
You could hunt pheasants there.
That's the last place I huntedpheasants in this state Was
(21:19):
there?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, it's still pretty rural.
It was pretty rural back then.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
One of the old-timers that was there said you could
shoot a rifle and it would hitPlymouth State Home and Training
before we'd get out of the post.
I mean it was, it's just theway they talked about it.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So how was the IPSI post for you?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Riot.
I enjoyed that every minute ofit.
We were not every minute.
We were involved in a coupleshootings and things like that.
It was neat.
You knew what police work was,and if you didn't, you learned
fast.
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
So when you were there in Ypsilanti, did they
have the motorcycle club there?
There's a clubhouse there now,but there's a post there, right
that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
But they moved out, I think.
Okay, it used to be in downtownYpsilanti, right across from
the bank.
There's a drive.
Yeah, that Harlan's grocerieswas on the other side of the
post and then the post was therewe had, we were all jammed in.
It was.
You know, that was the biggestpost in the state at that time.
(22:38):
Well, there was 10 or 12detectives that worked out of
the airport.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah and so what you do, were you still patrolling at
this point?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
What do you recall?
Maybe one of the things thatyou remember most about being an
Ipsy.
Is there anything in particular?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, one thing my wife come home or I come home
from work and she was in theroom crying.
I said what's wrong?
She says I had a lady banginginto me with a cart when I was
checking out.
I said why don't you turnaround and belt her?
Oh, I'm not that kind of youknow.
So that one got to me and shesaid I want out of here.
(23:20):
I put a letter in and it was awhile a year or two I think
before I got out of there, andthat was when my father died.
Mary was still alive, but myfather died, and he's the one we
.
He was, I don't know, he was myrock.
(23:41):
If I needed something I'dalways ask him.
Good man.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That must have been very hard for you.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It was.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So when you left Ypsilanti, where did you go from
there?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Lansing.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I worked out of the Lansing Post and then I was
there for a year or two I don'tknow, I can't remember.
And next thing I know well, Iworked narcotics.
So I was all over the state.
We were working at differentpost areas.
We worked at both.
We did what they called.
(24:19):
I can't think what they calledit, but we'd work.
There would be a say PD,weberville had a PD and they
couldn't do anythingmanpower-wise, so we'd have to
get in there and do it for them.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, they had the teams right Right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
That was the start of the teams.
We had narcotics teams andinvestigative teams and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, they had sweat down by Battle Creek and they
had magnet up here, Sweat downby Battle Creek and they had
Magnet up here and up in Ipsy itwas Huron area undercover.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I forgot what it was.
It was a word that we madewords out of that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I can't think what it was they all had an acronym
that made a word.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I remember that but and that's where we retired we
stayed there, and I think Jennywas born in Lansing when we were
stationed there, so both thekids were with me when we went
to Alpena.
Okay, that's the post I workedout until I retired.
(25:28):
Now you have two children, thenTwo girls.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Okay, well, well, tell me about your daughters.
I know one of them's standinghere, so you got to be nice, but
uh.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
They're good kids, yeah, they um Couldn't do
anything wrong, though, becauseevery time they'd do something
wrong I'd catch them or I'd betold by one of the guys.
I saw your daughter here theother day, so they couldn't have
freedom really could you?
(25:59):
No.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
It's like being a minister's child, I think.
Yes, same sort of thing, yeahit could be.
Yeah, and so when did youretire from the state police?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You remember 97.
Was it 97.
?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Okay, and what did you do after retirement?
Because you were still a prettyyoung guy in 97.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, I got a job.
I had a son-in-law and I thatwould.
We started a little business oftaking people up in the
mountains on horseback.
That was one thing, and thenthat didn't work out very well.
So Bailiff, huh, bailiff, ohyeah, the sheriff wanted some
(26:43):
help.
So he asked me if I'd be abailiff.
I said only if I can getOctober off, and he let me get
off.
And then I got a job withprobation, worked for a judge in
Ocona County.
Kids that were on, you know badkids.
I'd check on them and talk tothem and try to make them work
(27:05):
and get getting out of thisstuff, but a lot of them the
parents were the reason the kidswere so scrappy.
Right, I never saw that in myother jobs before really.
I mean, I knew it happened butI never saw it like I did there.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
You think you were able to help some of those kids.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I tried.
Yeah, you know, I had a kid ina dugout.
This was over in Barton City.
There's a dugout in a field andhe was down in there.
When I saw him, he was with agirl down in there and I said
what are you doing with her inhere?
None of your business, oh really.
So I grabbed ahold of him and Ithink that was the start of his
(27:47):
change in life, because I wasgoing to peel him.
But he, you know, treat him tobeing nice.
What are you in there for?
You weren't talking baseball,were you?
You know it was like that, butI did that for quite a few years
, I'd say 10 years or more.
You were also a fireman.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Oh, you were a firefighter too.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
You name it, I did it .
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, yeah, was that local then.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, sanborn Township, it was Asinik.
It's 10 miles south of Alpena,a little bird called Asinik, and
that was Sanborn Township.
That's where our firedepartment was right at that
intersection of 23 and NicholsonHill.
Okay, I didn't drive the firetruck only a couple of times
(28:43):
because I was so far out Right,but I could get to the fire and
get it sized up by the time thefire truck got there.
Then we got another fire truckand then we got a tanker.
So it's really a good.
I think it's the best in thestate, because when we had
training, everybody showed up.
We didn't get paid for trainingor anything Right, we did later
(29:07):
, but we didn't get paid fortraining or anything Right, we
did later but we didn't backthen.
So we did that.
We were good.
We saved a lot of buildings.
I had one of the troops inAlpena say well, I see you saved
another basement.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I didn't think cops and firemen got along, so how
did you work that out?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I was always taking stuff, crap from them,
especially the firemen or thecops when I was a fireman.
Yeah, just tell them to shut upand leave me alone or whatever
I don't remember just whathappened, but I love some of
those guys.
You know one of them and I wereinvolved in a shooting and, uh,
(29:54):
you know you get kind of tightwith somebody when you're
throwing light at each other canyou tell me about that, about
the shooting.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
What do you recall about that?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
How God protected me.
I should have been dead.
I was running up when he pulledthe gun out.
He had a sawed-off shotgun.
I thought I'm done here.
I knew it and I started runningback towards the car.
I think when he fired I hadunburned burn powder in my eyes.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
that's how close I was other than that you weren't
injured, though no well he wasyeah, we only that one, and we
had one.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I think we had one in Alpena a shooting, but it
wasn't like that my shooting.
Oh, the Ipsy.
We had a shooting in Ipsy too.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What do you remember about that one?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
God won, he lost Obviously.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
At the end of the day that's kind of what matters,
isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I was sleeping on the couch because my wife was
having her.
Oh, they were sleeping on thecouch and my wife never, ever,
ever slept in.
She was always up early.
And I went into therefrigerator and got some orange
juice and some vodka and I gotplastered.
Because that's the first timesince Vietnam that anybody got
(31:38):
hurt because of me, I'll be niceand call it hurt.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's tough, as a veteran and even as a police
officer, to kind of reconcile,that, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
You always wonder if he did right, especially when he
went down.
I thought, oh boy, this is goingto be some reports here.
But luckily, you know, we seethere were four of us.
Two came on the car, the badguy car, and then two of them
started running, or one did.
(32:15):
Name was Hill.
He ran down and our guys chasedafter him and caught him.
He didn't know there were twoup above.
It was down on the freeway backup from the edge of the where it
was all chained from the fence,and when we got there I had a
recruit and we got there and hewas shooting.
(32:39):
I said give me the gun.
And I got it from him.
And then I dropped one on himand told him hello, got it from
him.
And then I dropped one on himand said told him hello, you
know, that one, that one, thatone didn't hit home because he
we found out later that the gunshe had on him, one was taken
from a Pittsburgh police officerthat was killed in the line of
(33:02):
duty and the other was asawed-off shotgun.
That was Oklahoma State Police.
So he killed at least two otherpeople that we could trace back
that were him from him.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Definitely a bad guy.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh yeah, I didn't mind that at all.
You know some of it.
When you're involved in ashooting, it kind of you wonder
if you're hoping it's right.
You don't want to be doinganything wrong like that, where
this was no doubt about it, thisone.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Pretty cut and dry.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, there's always thatlittle voice in the back of your
head that makes you wonder ifyou did the right thing or not.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, but Could be.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, because he was no good.
Yeah, so you.
It sounds like you did a lot ofdifferent things.
How did you end up here inHarrison?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
My wife wanted to be by for the kids Wanted to be by
a lake and one of the prettiestlakes in the state is Hubbard
Lake.
But that wasn't what she wanted.
She wanted something away fromthat, something where I would be
home most of the time goingwhen we were dating and stuff.
(34:19):
I was always off doingsomething else and she got tired
of that, wouldn't you say.
And so we got here and we had afarm, we had farm animals and
stuff and had to give all thatup for this.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, how did you meet your wife?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That's kind of a funny story really.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh, I gotta hear this .
Speaker 2 (34:46):
We were the troops and I had a.
I can't think of the name ofthe Italian restaurant in
Lansing Emil's Emil's.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, right on Michigan Ave there.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, it was on Michigan.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Emil's Emil's West.
Yeah, emil's yep.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
One of the guys in my recruit school.
We were still in recruit school, well, actually we were in
retread school and he set it upfor a bunch of girls from the
bank to come to that and I waswith all these girls and stuff
and we're all milling aroundlooking for mates.
(35:26):
I guess, yeah, these girls andstuff and we're all milling
around looking for mates.
I guess, yeah, and uh, I thinkit was a while later I went to
the, went to a party.
Well, I met her at this, atemails, and uh, I talked to her
on the phone and and I said, doyou want to go out?
(35:48):
She said yes, and when I gotthere to pick her up it wasn't
her.
I had the names mixed up.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Well, we dated for a little while and finally that
girl wanted to become astewardess.
And so my wife, well, mary,came up and said you want to go
see a movie with me?
I'll pay for it.
I said well, how do you turnthat down, right?
So I did and didn't, and we met.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
But Mary was the girl you meant to call at first,
right, but you called the wronggirl.
Yeah, so you just dated heranyway.
Yeah, why not?
She's a girl.
Yeah, so you just dated her.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Anyway.
Yeah, why not?
She's a girl.
Yeah, yeah, why not?
I'm thinking they all got thesame parts.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Well, mostly yes.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
That was how I met her.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Uh-huh.
So she took you out on a date.
Yeah, okay, and then it was.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I never dated after that.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, did you know pretty early on that you wanted
to marry her, or did it take alittle while?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I don't know.
We were building a place overin Island Lake off of Meredith.
Are you familiar with that?
I am not 18, it's north ofClaire, her, gladwin.
Okay, we met there and what wasI talking about?
You were talking about you andyour dad building the house.
(37:16):
Oh yeah, and she helped.
I was out doing hunting with mydogs and something, and she's
back home or back at our place,uh-huh.
And she my dad said when wewere getting ready to wash it up
, because he dug this big holefor the well and I should have
(37:39):
been helping him, but I didn't.
I was out bird hunting, which Ilike to do, and so I I don't
know Dad says this is your girl,you've got to marry this girl.
I said why do you say that?
I was free and dating lots ofpeople at the time.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Even girls you didn't mean to date.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Well, that one was for sure that, Because when I
walked into her house I knockedon the door.
She lived in an apartment inEast Lansing.
I knocked on the door and shelet me in and I'm looking around
.
I didn't want to be stupid andsay, because I thought her name
was Mary Right, and I knew that,but I didn't know who she was.
(38:25):
And when I went to pick her up,Mary's Mary wasn't there yeah.
I'm trying to figure out.
How am I gonna get out of thisway?
So your dad?
figured out that Mary was thegirl for you yep uh-huh because
she worked all day digging upthat hole to put that wellhead
in there.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
So did you take your dad's advice, or did you wait a
little while?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nope, Told my dad's advice and we started dating
more and more each.
I mean, she was still workingin Lansing, I was in Ipsy, so on
my days off I'd go get her andwe'd go dance.
You know whatever we wanted todo, and that worked out pretty
well.
I guess, go get her and we'd godance you know, whatever we
wanted to do, and that workedout pretty well, I guess.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yeah, how long were you married?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Oh man, 45 years 45 years.
She was dead right here in thefloor, the living room.
She died right in here.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
What happened?
I don't know.
I think it was a heart attack,okay, she died right in here.
What happened?
I don't know.
I think it was a heart attack,okay, and how long ago was that?
21.
Oh, okay, so not too long ago.
Yeah, she had just celebratedher birthday and then, a few
days later, she was gone.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Okay, all right, there's something good out of
everything bad.
I got to see my daughter that Idon't hardly ever see Erin's
close to home, but Jenniferisn't.
She's out in Utah, yeah, orIdaho, whatever one.
She was at Idaho first.
She's a PA.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Physician's assistant .
Speaker 2 (40:12):
When she worked for the first doctor after school
she did a lot of she was doing.
When they cut them off, theydid that.
What's it called the fat people?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
The bariatric surgery .
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
So she got that.
I think I lost my train ofthought.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
We were talking about her living out in Idaho and
being a yeah, and she was ableto come home.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, I got to see her when I worked out there.
I saw her all the time.
She'd make the food for us upin the mountains and stuff.
That was kind of neat and thatfell on deaf ears so it was
tough.
It was a tough one.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, now you have grandchildren too, right?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Almost great-grandchildren.
Yeah, that's what I heard.
So how many grandchildren doyou have?
Grandchildren too, right?
Almost great-grandchildren?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah, that's what I heard.
So how many grandchildren doyou have?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Seven.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
And three step.
Oh okay, that's a big family,and then you have a
great-grandchild on the way.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Born in August.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay.
Do we know if it's a boy or agirl Boy?
Oh, maybe another hunter in thefamily.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Maybe Her husband.
I got him a shotgun a whileback because he's been helping
with me with here and stuff, andher too.
Everything she wants, I try togive it to him, and that makes
things a lot easier for me yeah,it's always good to have some
(41:54):
help yeah, and like Jim's, Ithink he was mowing I'm.
I just had surgery a coupleweeks ago.
I know what's it calledpostrate and the shaved one and
(42:14):
I'm still recuperating, really Iguess, from that.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, so that wasn't fun no, no, if it was fun,
everyone would do it.
It's definitely not fun no notat all.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Hardest thing I ever had to go through.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
You know, when I got wounded, that wasn't no very big
thing.
Anyway, I got cold milk,something I hadn't had in months
.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
For people who never served in the military.
It's funny that you mentionedcold milk, because for me that
was like when I could get coldmilk, especially cold chocolate
milk.
It was a big deal, because youjust don't get it in the field
Everything's we used to get foodbrought out in these things
called mermite cans.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
It would be like chicken and some mashed potatoes
and gravy, and they wouldalways have little cartons of
milk when they did that, whichwas maybe three times in my
times in the field.
Well, when I went to thehospital and got walking, I
walked into the mess hall.
Cold milk, great big ball atthe bottom of this rubber hose.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Filled up my coffee cup with milk and all the other
stuff in there and there wassome Oriental Vietnamese washing
dishes and cleaning up andstuff.
I wasn't very pleasant towardsthose kind of people because I'd
been hurt by him and I saw himkill people.
I know that that's war.
(43:53):
That's what the war is about, Iguess, and I didn't like that
at all.
But I was drinking the milk andI'd get another glass or a cup
that brown wooden trays Rememberthem?
I do, and the cup was forcoffee but I drank milk and I
(44:15):
couldn't even eat because Idrank so much milk and my
stomach had shrunk.
Somebody said they thoughtthat's what had happened because
it came up.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, if you haven't had that kind of food in a long
time, it'll definitely.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I don't know if you're familiar with C-rations,
but that's what we ate when wewere in the field.
It's the crappiest stuff youever did see, and some of it was
dated in 42.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, world War II stuff right, yeah yeah.
When I came into the military,the C-rations were going away
and they had the MREs, the meals, ready to eat in the big
plastic bags, which, by the way,were probably not much better
oh yeah, anything is better thanthose C-rations.
(45:02):
Yeah, they were awful now, didthose have cigarettes in them?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
yeah, and guys would light them and they were gone.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
That's because they were old.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, they were very dry.
I would say that's what madethem burn so fast.
I didn't smoke, so it didn'tmatter to me, right.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
What kind of food for anyone listening?
What kind of food would be in aC-Ration?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Well, they had some specialty things.
One was spaghetti.
That was probably the best.
Then we had something with limabeans in it.
Well, there's three things Idon't eat.
Lima beans is one of them.
But you had to eat them, right,otherwise you didn't get
anything.
But you had to eat them,otherwise you didn't get
anything.
And there was something, oh,pork and beans.
(45:54):
that was another one this allcame in cans right it had a
little P you know what a P38 isand we'd open them with that,
bend it up and use that for ahandle.
And then we'd take the C4 thatyou had in the mines what do
(46:14):
they call them?
Oh, the claymore, claymore.
Yeah, we'd pick the glue or theC4 out of that, light it and
then heat our C rations.
And I remember one time we hadput them out at night because we
always put those out at nightand the facing out and there was
(46:40):
nothing, nothing to do, andtheir guys were popping Seymour,
claymores.
You know, we were in a,somebody was checking us to see
how many there was of us, and sowe're trying to kill him with
claymores Claymore mines yeah.
And you hear pop, because weused all the C4 for lighting our
(47:02):
meals.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Well, maybe you scared him to death.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well, most of the time they wouldn't come in, yeah
, but then once in a whilethere'd be a fully intact
claymore that would make itrumble the ground, but I
remember the times when it wouldjust bang.
You're thinking where?
The hell did that come from, Imean in my early days there,
(47:29):
afterwards it was you were usedto all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Did you find it was kind of amazing what you get
used to yes, you know comparedto like when you first get there
and by the time you leave it's.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
We went 68 days without changing uniforms, 68
days that I'll never forget.
And I was a radio operator, soa lot of times I'm writing on my
pants or my you know, becausein the rain you can't use paper
for coordinates and things.
(48:02):
So you'd use, you know, writeon my clothes and the goose or
the bad guys would smell us.
They had to have smelled us, Imean, we were awful.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yeah, but you all stunk.
So I mean no one, really no wedidn't know it.
You didn't know it, you werenose blind at that point.
Yeah, that's a long time, butit's hot and sweaty.
Oh yeah, in the jungle 68 days.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I'll never forget that, even with my loss of
memory I can remember that.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
So were you on patrol for that whole 68 days then.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
I didn't go on patrol much because I had the radio.
There was a time or two that Ihad to go.
The boss said you have to goout once in a while.
That was okay.
I didn't have any problem in it.
I never did any leading away oranything like that.
We had guys that did that.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Well, you don't want to put your radio operator out
front anyway.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Well, when I went to basic and then I got into AIT, I
walked into the classroom andthere was a big nine on the
chalkboard.
Nine, and it was a few days wewere in there and finally
somebody said hey, sarge, what'sthat nine for?
(49:24):
It took you guys long enough toask.
He says that's how long you'regoing to be living when you get
in a firefight.
It's nine minutes, wow.
So we kind of buckled downafter that and didn't screw off.
We wanted to get our trainingin.
So we knew what we were gettinginto.
And the main thing that wasbecause of.
(49:45):
I mean, it just wasn't.
We didn't have the opportunityto change clothes, right, we
didn't carry extra clothes, wecarried food, if we carried
anything.
Extra Water was another thing.
The mom used to send Kool-Aidthat's by itself, yeah.
(50:08):
And then you shake it up inyour canteen and I mean it
tasted like shit anyway.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
But this tasted like cherry shit, right, or grape
shit, or whatever flavor it wasWhatever it was.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
yeah, it was awful.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, I don't know what they do to the water in war
, but it's yeah, it's never.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Well, we used to get these bladders, probably as big
as this table, with littlespigots yeah, like three little
spigots on the side, and thatwater tasted just as what that
rubber looked like.
It must have tasted like that.
Well, it did, because finally,you know, you had to drink it.
They'd bring that, a helicoptercould bring that in, set it
(50:48):
down and we'd all get our waterand then away it'd go.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah, yeah, and they'd sit out in the sun and
get all nice and warm.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
They made it nice for us, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, anything else about yourtime in the military you want to
talk about, or anything elsethat comes to mind that you'd
like to share?
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I don't know you think of anything?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I don't think so Okay , well, for anyone listening to
this in the future, what messagewould you like to leave for
people?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Probably that I love them.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
All right, all right, bill.
Well, thanks for spending anafternoon with me here.
I appreciate it.
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