Unlock the secrets to fortifying your veterinary practice against life's uncertainties with our latest podcast episode featuring Chris Steffl from Versatile Insurance. As we stroll down memory lane discussing our ten-year collaboration, we promise to equip you with the knowledge to navigate the insurance maze with confidence. Whether you're acquiring a new practice or planning for the long haul, our dialogue unveils critical insurance products and strategies that can provide a safety net for both your business and personal life.
Imagine securing your financial future while attracting top talent to your veterinary practice. With Chris's expertise, we dissect the intricate world of life and disability insurance, zeroing in on policies that offer strategic benefits for immediate and future planning. We tackle the often-overlooked significance of key person and deferred compensation plans, revealing how these can safeguard your practice's stability and promote employee retention. Our conversation is a treasure trove of insights, geared towards ensuring that veterinarians like you are well-prepared for any eventuality.
Wrapping up, we navigate through the complexities of practical financial planning, income replacement, and the impact of outdated life insurance policies on families. Our stories and personal anecdotes serve as a reminder that staying informed and up-to-date with your insurance coverage isn't just a chore—it's a crucial step in protecting the legacy of your practice and the well-being of your loved ones. Join us and transform the way you think about health and life insurance for a prosperous future in the veterinary field.
Guest Information
Chris Steffl
612-600-7243
cts.visins.com
Christopher Steffl LinkedIn
Versatile Insurance
Host Information
Bill Butler – Contact Information
Direct – 952-208-7220
https://butlervetinsurance.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/billbutler-cic/
Schedule a Strategy Session with Bill – Strategy Session
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast
brought to you by Butler VetInsurance.
Hosted by Bill Butler, theVeterinary Blueprint Podcast is
for veterinarians and practicemanagers who are looking to
learn about working on theirpractice instead of in their
practice.
Each episode we will bring yousuccessful, proven blueprints
from others both inside andoutside the veterinary industry.
(00:21):
Welcome to today's episode andoutside the veterinary industry.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to today's episode.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Veterinary Blueprints
podcast, where business andentrepreneurship ideas meet the
animal health and veterinaryindustry.
I am your host, bill Butler,and I just could not be more
excited.
I don't know how all of youwill feel about how excited I am
on this episode, but I'mexcited because I've got my good
friend, chris Steffel fromVersatile Insurance on here.
(00:51):
So this is our first podcastwith two insurance professionals
on the podcast.
So I don't know, it might be alittle rough but we're going to
get through it.
I say Chris is a good friend.
I've known Chris since 2010,roughly 2011.
He started his career at RBCDane Rauscher as a financial
advisor and then transitionedafter a few years to work at the
insurance brokerage that hisfather had founded and he's now
(01:14):
a managing partner there.
Chris and I met through theinsurance industry back in 2010,
through the local stateinsurance association that I
belong to, through the localstate insurance association that
I belong to.
He and another partner werereally investing in developing
relationships with insuranceagencies like mine, and I'll let
(01:35):
Chris tell a little bit of hisstory and what he offers.
But Chris and I are roughly thesame age.
We have a lot of the same ideasand principles behind how we do
business, and so we've just hada really good relationship.
And now, as I built my practicewith veterinarians and products
and services for them, chrisand his team have been a huge
(01:58):
integral part of that in addingto the value that we bring to
the practices that we work with.
So I'm very excited to haveChris Steffel, managing partner
at Versatile Insurance, with ustoday.
Welcome, chris.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Thanks a lot, Bill.
Thanks for having me and, yeah,I've enjoyed the partnership
and I think there's a lot ofgood we still have to do right.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Absolutely Nothing but open canvas in front of us,
clear, sailing ahead, I think sowhy don't you, for our guests
listening today, just a littlebit about who Chris Steffel is I
gave you a little bit of anintroduction there, but you and
your business and how you kindof fit into the insurance
industry and a little bit aboutyou.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No, absolutely.
Yeah, Bill, as you mentioned,I'm second generation in this
business that my father foundedand really we started the
business and got it going tohelp out property casualty shops
and then also financialadvisors, and what we realized
is that, you know, commercialshops such as yourself are
(02:59):
really, you know, do a lot ofbusiness in the commercial and
understand it really well.
Really, you know, do a lot ofbusiness in the commercial and
understand it really well.
But when it comes to the lifeside of the business and all the
different carriers out there,we realized that we as a
brokerage can help figure outthe best products for you guys,
kind of put the best situationstogether.
And the last four I lean on youpretty heavy.
(03:21):
You do, you do no, it's good,it's in, you know, for us it's
exciting and fun because you'vegot the relationships.
You're trying to solve a lot oftheir problems.
So we're always excited to comein and kind of bring different
solutions to the table.
And I honestly, business ischanging so much right now.
I mean, every industry is goingthrough so many different
changes and we're seeing it withsome of the clients you have.
(03:42):
So it's fun.
It's fun to figure out, youknow.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Absolutely so.
Versatile Insurance.
Your dad started it back whenwe got together.
It had a different name, butnow it's known as Versatile
Insurance, and you know.
So you know we interact in alittle bit of a different way.
So there's.
You know, when a veterinarianbuys a life insurance policy or
a disability policy out there,maybe they're buying a practice
(04:09):
and they need to buy a lifepolicy.
There's like a thousand placesfor people to buy life insurance
.
You can buy it from your bank,you can buy it from your home
and auto agent, you can buy itfrom wherever.
So how does versatile insurancefit into the insurance universe
?
And then, how does that wind upimpacting an agency like Butler
Vet Insurance?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Absolutely.
So obviously there's a lot ofdifferent factors that come into
play.
So, first and foremost, what iseven the policy to cover a loan
?
What is the best policy tocover if you've got another
partner in the business?
There's also some uniquepolicies that can really benefit
(04:51):
key individuals in theorganization which we utilize
for life insurance.
So as an organization we'llfirst of all take those factors
into play to kind of find thebest policy, but then also
health issues and then just whatis the long-term planning?
So, Bill, that's one thing Ialways appreciate with you when
we work together is we're notjust trying to solve the problem
(05:14):
for the veterinary practiceright now.
We're looking at, you know,what does it look like in 10
years?
What does it look like in 20years?
What can we do with theseproducts in retirement?
So it's a little mix of alittle bit of everything, so
Versatile.
The great advantage is we'reworking with a ton of different
brokers all over the country.
We get to see a lot of volumeand we get to work with a lot of
(05:34):
carriers to find kind of thebest product that fits for that
situation.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So our relationship, versatile Insurance just to
paint a picture for thelisteners, you know a
veterinarian doesn't callVersatile Insurance to buy an
insurance policy.
You deal direct.
So you're kind of a middleman.
You deal with the insurancecompanies and so when I go to
Chris I've got a veterinarianwho's going to buy a practice.
They say, hey, I need to get alife insurance policy for my
(06:01):
collateral life assignment.
I go to Versatile Insurance andbuy it through Chris's
brokerage.
So Versal Insurance is abrokerage, or what do you
technically call yourself as abusiness?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Brokerage is probably the best way to look at
Superstamp, but that's usuallywhat we are Our market, yeah
yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So Chris and his company have the relationship
directly to the insurancecompany.
So Pacific Life and Banner Lifeand AIG and all the different
life insurance companies and asan insurance agency I access
those companies through Chris.
So Chris has the relationshipwith the company I have the
relationship with Chris andChris is that go between.
And so in a lot of cases that'swhat happens.
(06:41):
Lot of cases, that's whathappens.
You know, it's very rare for anagency like mine to have 35
different relationships with allthe different disability
companies and all the differentlife companies and so when
you're accessing insurancesometimes those you know as the
end user for our listeners outthere, if you're a veterinarian
who owns a practice, yougenerally aren't buying it
(07:03):
directly from the insurancecompany.
There's sometimes these multiplelayers and so for us at Butler
Vet Insurance we've partneredwith Chris and his team because
it really adds a lot of tools toour toolbox that wouldn't
otherwise be there.
And that's why I wanted tobring Chris on today to talk
about his expertise, because mybackground, as Chris said, is
(07:25):
the commercial insurance side.
You know the business insuranceand workers' compensation and
all those things, and hisexperience is the life and
disability and, as we've grown,that part of our practice.
Chris and his team have been anintegral part of that, and
Chris has so much moreexperience with how these
products and I've learned somuch from him over the last
(07:48):
three to five years here on howto integrate these products in.
So you know, before we hop downhere, chris, you mentioned
three or four products that arereally key in you know to use
the word key in a veterinarypractice, and why don't you list
a few of those off for thelisteners?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Sure, you know, right now what we're seeing and this
is something that's really kindof picked up because of just
where all industries are at istrying to either attract or
retain key people that you'vegot in place, and so one of the
things that we're doing is, Imean, one is just offering
benefits to those keyindividuals.
But there's also some prettyunique products that are out
(08:30):
there now where the organizationcan actually put a little extra
funding aside for thatindividual to stay with the
organization.
So it's an incentive, you know,for that individual to stay and
at the same time it puts alittle bit of ease on the
practice to know that they'vegot something, that individual
to stay, and at the same time,it puts a little bit of ease on
the on the practice to know thatthey've got somebody that wants
to stay with the company.
So that's probably been the big, the big area.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So that's those are we.
We will call them deferredcompensation plans, and so you
know, we, chris and I hadactually in another one of our
agents here at Butler VetInsurance, we're actually having
some, some meetings with withour clients about deferred
(09:12):
compensation plans to put somethings in place, and we'll dive
into that a little bit more.
So deferred comps one and thenwhat are a couple others that
we're dealing with a lot rightnow.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You know, one of the things is is we'll see when
somebody takes out an SBA loanor if they're buying a practice
or expanding a practice, thebank a lot of times will require
a life policy and a disabilitypolicy to offset that loan.
So for us we'll shop that outto find the best price.
If there's any health issues orproblems that they've got,
(09:40):
we're able to find a carrierthat will actually usually fit
into that space.
So that's when we're seeing alot right now.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and so for our veterinarians out there who are
looking to acquire a practice,be prepared.
Yes, because the life insuranceand what we've been running
into is the lenders out thereand I know a lot of them is that
the lenders and theunderwriting team at the lending
department are requiring veryhigh limits of life insurance.
(10:08):
That you know you got to coverthe full value of the loan.
But then also what we'refinding is a couple of lenders
are putting some bigrequirements in on the
disability insurance and it'sactually eye-opening for Chris
and us.
We're going holy cow.
They need a $20,000 disabilitypolicy to cover the loan payment
.
So be prepared on that.
So you know, the collateralassignment of disability not
(10:29):
collateral assignment ofdisability, but having a
disability policy in place andmaking sure that that's
compliant and then collateralassignment of life insurance and
we're going to circle back tojust the general life insurance
to the veterinarian.
But what are?
I think there's probably twoother policies that are kind of
key for a practice to have inplace.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, one of the things we just see is if there
are partners within anorganization having insurance in
place if something was tohappen, both on the disability
or on the life side, to buy theother partner out.
And then, in addition to that,is even the personal insurance
is another space, you know.
We want to make sure that, ifsomething was to happen, that
(11:13):
the spouse has enough insurancein place to allow time for that
practice to sell.
You know, oftentimes, billwe've seen it so many times over
the last decade where theydon't have the proper personal
insurance in place, somethinghappens and then they have to
sell a business very quickly andso they require the right
individual, you know, in placeon it.
(11:35):
Um, so those are definitely thespaces and the disability, you
know I I think the thing is is,uh, the one thing we see in the
veterinary space and in themedical field is that early on
in their college career, thedisability gets talked about a
lot, and the reason why thatgets brought up is that you know
, if it's a hand injury or a leginjury, the ability to not
(11:58):
stand, it really makes itdifficult to do, to actually
practice in both spaces, and sowe want to make sure that they
have the right policy in place.
That's one of the biggestthings we want to make sure the
language is right.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And so, yeah, talking about that for a second and
diving in on the disabilitypiece.
So disability insurance, inlayman's terms, is income
protection.
What you're, what you'reprotecting is you're protecting
your personal income in case ofa disability, and there's
short-term policies andlong-term policies and we won't
really get in the weeds on that.
But really, whatever kind ofdisability policy you're buying,
(12:35):
you're protecting your income.
And because veterinarians arehigher wage earners and they're
specialized, you can't transferthat skill to something else.
If you can't practiceveterinary medicine, that
income's potentially gone.
You want to protect it.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
And the other thing, too is we were talking about the
loans before too and even theexpenses of the organization.
There are policies that you canbuy that, if you do become
disabled, not only does it coveryour income but it also can
cover the expenses of thebusiness itself.
And so, ultimately, if you'vebuilt a great practice up and
you've got a number of differentveterinarians that are involved
(13:15):
with that and staff, the ideawould be is, can you offset some
of that cost to incentivizesomebody to come in to take over
that practice?
Or you know where you're stillmaybe even involved with it?
So that's some of theconversations we can have,
depending on how big thepractice is and what their
long-term you know goals arewith it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
We were just actually working on a case together and
it was, you know, kind ofshocking where you looked at the
income for the veterinarian at35 and they said, you know, said
the earning potential betweennow and even with the lower
income that they had was like$2.8 million of just personal
income, W-2.
And they own the practice.
(13:56):
So obviously they're havingsome tax advantages there as
well and probably having somepass through, but just on their
W-2 income, you know you'retalking about $2.8 million and
if they couldn't practiceanymore and they didn't have
that disability policy in place,that was just lost money to
them.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
That's right.
Yeah, it's a big number to tryto make up.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, so having having those policies structured
properly, and, and then, um,you can also take out a key
person policy.
So why don't you just talkbriefly about key person life
and disability and what you'reseeing in the space on those?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, especially, you know, and it could be what we
always kind of think about fromkey people too.
It can't.
It can be the ones that areactually practicing.
It could be an office manager.
There's a lot of key peoplethat can be part of an
organization.
So what these policies do is,if they become disabled or if
they pass away, the insurancewill actually pay to the
(14:49):
organization to help replacethat individual.
So usually what we're doing iswe're working with the practice
organization to make sure, firstof all, that that individual,
for their family or as anindividual, they have options to
be able to make sure insurancegoes back to them.
But the problem, and probablythe big miss thing, is the
replacement, to be able toreplace that person.
(15:10):
And honestly, bill, the thingthat I've seen be just so
detrimental is the disability,because it can go on.
It could go on for a year ortwo.
You don't want to let that keyperson that's helped you build
your business just have to dealwith that with their family, and
so it really becomes a win-winon both sides of it if something
(15:30):
was to come up, just becausethat way you've got now money to
be able to go out and try torecruit, and it's not just the
salary, I mean.
I think everybody knows they'rehaving trouble recruit people.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I mean, imagine if you can have double their income
to do an incentive bonus tobring them over.
And that's the stuff I thinkthat is.
You know, we see can make sucha big difference to keep that
practice going.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So it's not necessarily cost prohibitive
either.
I mean, you know, we're workingon some of these cases together
and you know, for the veteransout there who say it sounds kind
of morbid that if you know, ifI own the practice and Chris
works for me, he's an associateand he dies, I get paid, that's
kind of a morbid thought.
But at the end of the day,chris, chris is my top vet at my
(16:14):
practice.
He's generating, you know, sixor $700,000 in revenue, or a
million dollars in revenue tothe practice, and he died in a
car accident or he had a heartattack and passed away in
revenue to the practice and hedied in a car accident or he had
a heart attack and passed away.
I have to now figure out howI'm going to replace that
$600,000 to a million dollars inrevenue and I've got to try and
(16:35):
hire an associate.
But he was my top producer andso we're doing quotes for a
$500,000 term policy and thesepremiums on a 35-year-old are
200 bucks a year for 20 yearsand so it's strategically having
these conversations to protectthe investment in that
individual as an earner for thepractice, because they're key
(16:57):
people.
I mean, that's why they'recalled key persons.
So what you're saying, chris,is there's policies out there if
a key individual, whetherthat's a practice manager or
associate veterinarian, if theydied or were disabled, there's
insurance in place that wouldactually pay the practice back.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yep, that's exactly it, and I think overall in the
industry there's not a lot ofknowledge on that.
I mean, I think it's somethingthat we usually get really good
response back from businessesand I think I like the fact that
you brought up the cost of it.
I think that there is aconception that it's very
expensive and it's really notbecause we're solving for more
(17:34):
of a catastrophic type situation.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Now this isn't somebody who's out for two weeks
because they got COVID overChristmas.
This is, you know veterinariangot into a car accident.
It's your associate.
They broke their arm and nowthey're.
You know, they're your topsurgeon in the practice and now
they're not practicing surgeryfor six months while they
recover.
So so key person life.
Let's dig into the deferredcomp a little bit, because this
(17:57):
is the conversations we'rehaving with some of the
veterinarians we're speakingwith.
It's very interesting ofespecially one veterinarian in
particular that we're dealingwith, very knowledgeable on the
topic.
So what does deferredcompensation mean and how do
those plans work?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yep, so what it is is it's both the individual or the
employee and the employeractually.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
So let's say it's an associate veterinarian at the
practice.
You just hire a brand newassociate and you say are you
going to bring a new associateon board and you would say I
want to defer some compensationand I can do this with life
insurance.
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yep.
So both individuals actuallyown the policy, but the actual
dollar amounts sit with thebusiness.
And so the idea is is thatwe're building up a cash value
in the plan that sits on thecash on the books for the
business.
If that individual was to leavewithin that period of time
let's say you said the goal wasto do 10 years that individual
(18:57):
left in the fifth year the moneywould actually stay with the
company.
So that's the incentive toactually stay with the company.
So that's the incentive toactually stay.
And so what we're usually seeinghappen is they'll take, let's
say, a base salary and they'llput this over and above it.
So, let's say the base salaryis $100,000 and that's kind of
market range.
(19:18):
They'll do, let's say, another$10,000 into a plan like this to
keep, retain that individualand really reward them at the
end of the 10 years to actuallystay.
And what's kind of unique aboutit, bill, is, once it moves
over to the individual, there isthat needs to be paid when it
moves over.
But what's unique about theinsurance plan is that money can
(19:39):
be taken out of that plan lateron, is that money can be taken
out of that plan later on.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, so Bill owns a veterinary practice.
Chris is just out of school andI want to bring him on board
and he's got student loans andhe wants to keep his student
loan payments as low as possible.
So he wants to keep his incomeas low as possible.
So this is a way for Chris todefer some compensation away.
So instead of having to paystudent loans on $110,000, he's
(20:04):
only going to pay student loanson $110,000, he's only going to
pay student loans on 100.
As a new vet coming in, we'lljust use the 100,000 number.
And so I would put $10,000 ayear into a life insurance plan
that would accrue interest andhave all the benefits of a whole
life or a permanent lifeproduct.
And Chris and I signed acontract that at the end of 10
(20:26):
years Chris gets control of thispolicy with all the cash value
and all the interest that'saccrued after 10 years.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
That's exactly right.
Yep 100%.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And at the end of 10 years you would have to pay the
tax on the money that's there.
But you could use the lifeinsurance policy to pay the
taxes.
So you didn't have to pay FICA,social security, 401k, all that
tax as part of this deferredcomp plan.
It would get paid as part ofthe benefit at the end.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yep, when the benefit moves over, you can utilize the
cash value in there then tooffset that the tax that would
have to be paid then at thatpoint.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
But year five, you say you know Bill's an idiot and
I don't want to work for himanymore.
I'm going to go over to youknow, I'm going to start my own
vet practice and you leave.
I get to keep all the moneythat I put in.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's right.
Yeah, that's where the yeah,where the basically the benefit
for the company is to try toretain that individual.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
And there's obviously some tax advantages for the
business in there becausethey're not paying table taxes
and this sort of thing.
And so the interest has beenthe conversations that you know
we've been having with some ofour clients and practices is,
you know, they have youngerveterinarians that wanted to
defer this compensation, right,yep, and the business wants to
be able to incentivize theirpeople to stick around.
(21:42):
So you're putting essentiallyyou know I don't like to use the
term golden handcuffs, butreally you're saying at the end
of 10 years.
You know, so if I put $10,000 ayear into these things, where
does that wind up going?
I mean, what kind of dollarsare we talking about, chris?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
You know, usually the products that we're going into
are going to get somewherebetween a 5% to 6% rate of
return.
Is what we're going to shoot foron it.
Now there is some cost andexpense to the insurance plan
and having it from there, butyou will get some growth on it.
So obviously the longer periodof time, the more interest will
actually grow on it.
But it does grow and we usuallylike to use index products
(22:19):
because they do have a littlebit of downside protection on
them.
So it's not like if we gothrough a major market downturn
that they're going to lose a lot.
So you're getting a little bitof return on it.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Plus, it's a life insurance policy where, if you
do wind up passing away, thespouse would actually
potentially have a lifeinsurance product there and at
the end of 10 years you couldsay you know what?
I'm just going to leave thishere and let it keep accruing
interest all the way toretirement as a retirement plan
and keep that policy in placeand not cash it out.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
So these are again with the key person life and the
deferred compensation.
It's interesting because everypractice that we've mentioned
this to they go I didn't evenknow that existed, holy cow.
That's very interesting, andespecially in the tight job
market in the veterinary worldright now for associates and
this doesn't have to be justveterinarians right, you could
(23:12):
put one of these deferredcompensation plans in for a
practice manager who's been withyou for 10 years and you say,
look, I want to give you a raise, but we're going to put 10,000
a year into this deferred compplan to keep them around for 10
years.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Absolutely, and that's what we're seeing, I mean
across all industries.
A lot of times that key personis that office manager or
somebody that's managing somekind of type of business.
So, bill, one thing I want tobring up because this came up in
a meeting that we were in is Iremember the vet was saying you
(23:45):
know, we really are seeingpeople go two different paths.
We're seeing where a youngvet's coming in and they
eventually want to buy or owntheir own practice.
We have other vets that come inthat are like just want to do
the job.
They went into the industry notto be a business owner but to
just to be a veterinarian be abusiness owner but to just to be
a veterinarian.
(24:05):
And what I think is really neatabout the plans that we're
talking about is when that lumpsum comes out at the end of 10
years, it can be used forretirement planning.
It can be used with the ideathat they can take cash out or
leave in the death benefit.
But you could also utilize thecash value to be a way to fund a
loan to buy a practice.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Getting assets to be able to buy it.
So that was something that wepicked up in one of the meetings
that I thought was just areally great idea, because that
is the issue.
We have veterinarians that wantto buy these practices out
after 10 or 15 years, but theydon't necessarily have the
dollars set aside to make thatdown payment.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
So you can be putting money away as a practice into a
deferred compensation plan thatthat veterinarian could
eventually use as their buy-into be a partner at your practice
.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yep, yeah, I love the concept.
It's just a great conceptoverall.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, he brought that up to us.
We were sitting at the meetingat lunch and he brought that up
and I was like, holy, that's agreat idea.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Great idea.
You know I mean it's a bigissue right now, because you
know what a practice cost 15years ago and what it costs now.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's a big deal, Holy cow yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
You know it's a very big number between the building
and the practice as a whole.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, very big number between the building and the
practice as a whole.
So yeah, so you know those aresome products available to
protect the practice for theemployees or the.
You know the, the associatethat you've got a key person
life, key person disability.
You know we touched on thedeferred compensation and and
you know, disability on theveterinarian.
Whether you know, I can'toverstate that if you're a one
(25:43):
or two vet practice, that havinga disability policy in place on
yourself, I mean you know for$80,000 in benefit annually.
So if you just say you knowwe're going to get 60% of my W-2
income covered and I'm payingmyself, you know let's say
$100,000 a year, you get $60,000of benefit, just again with our
100,000 number.
(26:04):
You're relatively young, you'reunder age 45.
I mean these are three grand ayear to protect $60,000 of
income.
And I think there's a lot ofmisconception about cost of
insurance and investment butit's really about protecting
your personal income.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Absolutely yeah, and, like you said, the cost is not
that much and some of the planseven have the ability where you
can get all your money backafter you return a premium.
By the time you hit 65.
So there's, they definitely aremaking it much, much, much more
easier now to be able to get itand have benefits to be able to
have.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So yeah, I was meeting with a veterinarian.
They were they were doingacquisition and they looked at
the premium and said you knowthe return of premium.
So basically I pay an extra$150 a month but at the end of
paying all this in, I get 100%of my money back At the end of
when I turn 65, well, why don'tI just pay the extra $150?
Otherwise, I'm just throwingall the rest of the money away
(27:00):
if I never use the policy.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So you look at it and go, ah, it's kind of some money
but it's not too bad.
You've got a couple ofinteresting stories and I think
kind of the last thing is justgeneral life insurance overall
and some misconceptions.
And this has been one of thegreatest things that I really
appreciate about ourrelationship is, you know, I
think from a life insuranceperspective and you've probably
(27:29):
seen this a lot more over yourcareer there's been a lot of old
school thinking about how tosell life insurance and the
amount of life insuranceindividuals need, and you take a
much different approach to, andyou really opened our eyes to
how to look at life insurance asa product to protect your
family.
Why don't you talk a little bitabout how that came about at
(27:51):
your practice and how you knowyour conversations with agents
like me changed over the years,talking about life insurance and
protecting your family and youknow this is just a general plug
out there.
I don't care if you buy apolicy from me or not or
anywhere else when you buy alife insurance policy.
This is the mindset to have andI got this from Chris.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah, no, it's a story I share.
A lot, you know, we've probably, as an organization, have paid
out, you know, several hundreddeath claims over the years and
we had one where I had twoindividuals that one was a
broker, one was a financialadvisor and one of their good
friends passed away in hisforties heart attack and very
successful individual.
(28:33):
And what happened was they didnot have much life insurance on
the individual.
And after that happened, bill,I really kind of looked at it
and said I think the problem isis we've made it too complicated
.
And you know we were looking attrying to figure out what's the
debt, what's the expenses.
We've got to figure out whatthe business.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
You know all these If you've ever sat down with a
financial advisor.
You fill out a risk assessmentand all the things and you
figure out what the need is andthen you know it's a complicated
math formula to figure out.
Well, how much death benefit doI need to cover all the numbers
and it's a moving target andjust it gets complicated.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
And so we, just we kind of came up with the idea
that, you know, after I saw allthese death claims paid out, we
really came up with the ideathat we're trying to replace
income and we would just and howdid you come up with that?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So when you talk about replacing income versus
death benefit and the actual youknow, you say, okay, well, this
is how much life insurance Ineed.
How did you know?
And the individual passed awaythat you were talking about in
the story, what was the you know?
You don't have to give exactnumbers, but, like, how did that
epiphany happen?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
You know, once we did that in the little month that
came out I really thought aboutit and said you know really what
happens at death.
It's a lot like retirement andthe fact of what bill in the
financial advisor realm for aclient is.
You should never take any morethan four to 5% of your
(30:09):
portfolio per year.
So I would use simple math.
A million dollars is 40 to$50,000 a year.
That's it.
So a million dollars looks likea big number, but when you say
40 or $50,000, it's not.
It's not a big number.
And so for us, what we alwayslook at is if we're looking for
the right amount of insuranceand we've got an individual that
(30:31):
makes $100,000 a year.
The math is real simple.
You just need to have $2million of assets.
So if you don't have any assets, we use the death benefit which
would give us that $100,000 ofincome back a year.
And let's say they had, you know, $500,000 of liquid cash.
Well, now we only need $1.5million $1.5, yep, Pretty simple
(30:54):
.
So the scenario that happenedBill, the family.
He was making about $350,000 ayear.
They had a beautiful home, theyhad nice property they lived in
a small town in Wisconsin sothey were living very, very well
and they only had about$600,000 of insurance.
So they ended up having to sellthe house.
The wife had to sell the house.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
So if you think about the math right and you're
talking about income replacement, you so a remaining spouse got
a check for $600,000 in deathbenefit.
So when you talk about deathbenefit check, somebody passes
away and the insurance, lifeinsurance company writes a check
for whatever the death benefitwas, and in this case it was
$600,000.
The surviving spouse takes thatcheck and what do they do with
(31:37):
it?
They put it in the bank.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yep, they usually go to the bank or go to an advisor,
you know, and the advisor, ifthey go to the advisor, the
advisor is going to say how longdo you want it to last for?
Well, if her expenses are 200grand a year for everything,
it's going to last three yearsthree.
I mean you can't get enoughtime to build up any investment
on it and it's gone.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
And so when you, when you're, you know if you're a
$200,000 a year household income.
You know you got two spouseseach making a hundred thousand
and one spouse passes away, butyou're used to spending $200,000
a year.
It's really hard to cut ahundred thousand expenses out of
your lifestyle.
Once that's gone, and if thedeath benefit that you receive
is only $300,000, all thatmoney's gone in three years.
(32:19):
And I think, historically, asinsurance professionals, what
we've done is we say, okay,you've got a $300,000 mortgage
and you got $50,000 in creditcard debt and car debt and
whatever.
So we're at $350,000 and yougot some student loans and some
other debt.
So we're going to buy a$400,000 life insurance policy
and we're going to buy a$400,000 30-year term and then
(32:43):
you pass away $400,000 30-yearterm and then you pass away and
at the end of four years yourspouse is out of money and they
have to sell the house and moveback in with mom and dad, with
the kids, because they continuedto spend like you were alive,
because they got the $400,000death benefit.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
And it worked when you looked at the 70s and 80s.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Taxes weren't high, cost of living was a lot lower.
So if you paid your debt off,we haven't.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We haven't started selling more life insurance,
like we're still selling fourhundred thousand dollars in life
insurance.
Like it's 1982.
Four hundred thousand dollarsin 1982 would get you to
retirement yes, it was a bignumber.
Yeah, not anymore it's, butwe're still selling four hundred
thousand dollars in lifeinsurance, thinking that it's
enough money to get you toretirement, and it's just not
yeah, it's probably one of thebiggest things.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I just see it, the industry and I, you know, the
thing is is 10 years ago, when Iwas 10 years into the business,
you know I've saw a couple ofdeath claims.
But boy you really.
You know, now I'm hitting my20th year and we paid so many
out and I've seen it on bothsides.
I've seen it where they've hadthe proper coverage, They've
been allowed to mourn for theloss, They've been able to keep
(33:45):
kids in activities.
They've been able to keep theirhome and keep lifestyle going.
And then I've seen it on theother side and it's just.
The problem is is, if you don'thave the right amount in place,
you don't get time to mourn,you just don't Because it's like
it's go time right.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Like $.
It's like it's go time, right.
$200,000 sounds like a lot ofmoney when you're buying the
insurance policy in the frontend.
Yes, you say, oh yeah, $250,000.
Our house is $250,000.
Like that's a big number.
But when you say I'm 40 and Ihave to make this $250,000 now
last to age 65, because myspouse is gone and I don't have
(34:22):
that money anymore, that's adifferent conversation.
So the conversation that wehave with our veterinary
partners is how long do you wantyour income to last for if
you're not here anymore?
Do you want it to last for 10years?
Do you want it to last for 20years?
Do you want it to last for therest of your life?
Because those are differentnumbers.
(34:45):
If you say I'm making $100,000 ayear and I want to last 10
years, you need to buy like$850,000 worth of insurance,
because you know you're going toput the money in the bank or
you're going to work with yourfinancial advisor and there'll
be a rate of return.
So you don't have to buy a fullmillion.
But if you want that money tolast a number of years and it's
your income number you need tomake it a bigger number.
What's surprising and I thinkthis is.
(35:05):
You know.
We'll kind of start wrapping upwith this.
They actually changed theactuarial tables a number of
years ago, didn't they?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
They did.
Yeah, people are living longer,so the cost has actually went
down on insurance over the years.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
So if you say I need a life insurance, you know for
the majority of it we're talkingabout term life products.
So we're saying I'm going tobuy a life policy until age 65,
until age 70, or for the life ofmy business loan.
And so if you say you're 40 andyou need a 25-year term policy
and it's $1.7 million, I meanwhat are the premiums on those,
(35:39):
chris?
If you're young and relativelyhealthy, it's like $1,500 or
$1,700 a year.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So I think that the mindset and conception overall
across consumers on life anddisability products is they're
cost prohibitive and that thebigger the number.
And, what was surprising, wewere working on another case
together.
He said, well, just quote 1.9.
Don't quote 2 because thenumbers change.
And we changed the number.
I was like holy cow.
That was a big savings and atthe end of the day that 100,000
(36:09):
isn't really going to make a bigdifference.
But going from 400,000 incoverage to 1.9 million, that's
generational change for thefamily.
And again you talked aboutgiving time to mourn.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, that's the key, after you see these and what it
means.
And then, especially withbusinesses, I I mean we probably
have seen 30 or 40 businesseswhere they didn't have the
proper insurance and I mean it'sit's really sad to see a
business that really should beworth 3 million having to sell
for a million and a half becausethey have to get rid of it.
(36:39):
You know, and that's the otherthing too is I mean, if you've
got enough death benefit ordisability, it really slows down
the process to be able to takethe time to keep that business
operating and then move to thenext set of hands.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah.
So if you had one piece ofadvice for the our listeners out
there today, as somebody who'sbeen in the life world,
financial advising world, yourentire career, all the way back
to when you're a young babyfinancial advisor intern at RBC
Dane Rauscher in 1999.
What would it be, chris?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
I think the big thing is is there's actually two
parts for me.
One is it's not usually asexpensive as you think, so don't
let that scare you away.
Well, actually, I'm going to dothree parts for you.
If you got health issues, don'tworry about it.
That's what we're behind thescenes doing.
We'll shop it out.
Surprisingly, they'll take alot of health issues these days.
(37:37):
And second thing is reviewevery time you have a life
change If it's a new child, adivorce, upgrading your job, you
know, retirement, whateverthat's the best thing I think
always is look at your insurancewhen there's a change in life.
That's all you've got toremember.
And with that you can usuallyfigure out what you need to.
(38:00):
You know to have?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
What do you, what does what does done look like,
or what is the end in mind?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Retirement and death and legacy.
I mean for me, when we're doingthe planning with any
organization, I'm actuallyalready thinking about the next
generation.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
You know, I mean, I think that if it's buying a term
policy bill, or if it's buyingpermanent or whatever, let's not
just think about what we'redoing today.
Let's think about whatretirement looks like.
What does it look like to leavea legacy, you know either, to
your family?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
It's so hard though, because these conversations
right and I'm sure you you knowyou've done so much more of this
than we have at Butler VetInsurance but just generally,
overall, I think the problemwith the human condition is we
don't want to face our ownmortality, we don't want to talk
about death, we don't want tothink that someday we're all
going to die.
I got news for everyone on thispodcast the Grim Reaper is a
(38:56):
thousand and oh and.
So it's really, as Chris said,talking about legacy and talking
about making sure that what youhad intended for your family,
whatever that looks like, yourfamily unit, whatever that looks
like is there and in place andfind a professional wherever you
(39:17):
are out there in the world.
Obviously, chris and I loveworking with veterinarians, but
wherever you are in the worldthere's, there's resources
available to to talk to thesepeople.
If, if there's anyone out therethat does want to reach out to
you, how do they get a hold ofChris Steffel?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Absolutely, yep, you can my email address and Bill, I
can give that right now if youwant.
It's CTS at VISINScom or myphone number is 612-600-7243.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
And you're also on LinkedIn pretty heavy out there
as well, Very involved withLinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yep, we're doing a lot of different posts and
information.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So we'll have some of that information in the show
notes for anyone else that wantsto reach out.
But you know again, don't letthe numbers scare you.
If.
If you get some health hiccups,don't let that scare you off.
There's lots of products andavailability out there and just
if you've got a life change,make sure to review your
insurance and make sure it is upto snuff, based on what you
need and what you want it to dofor your family.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yep, absolutely Thanks, Bill.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well, thanks so much for joining us today on this
podcast, chris.
We try, you know it's thehealth and life insurance part.
Just disability.
It's not always fun to talkabout, but I'm glad you shared
some of your insights today,chris.
And, as always for our podcastlisteners, make sure to like,
(40:43):
follow and review the podcast,share it with your friends out
there on social media and welook forward to joining you,
having you join us on the nextepisode of the Veterinary
Blueprints Podcast.
Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast
brought to you by Butler VetInsurance.
Hosted by Bill Butler, theVeterinary Blueprint Podcast is
for veterinarians and practicemanagers who are looking to
learn about working on theirpractice instead of in their
practice.
Each episode we will bring yousuccessful, proven blueprints
from others both inside andoutside the veterinary industry.
(00:21):
Welcome to today's episode andoutside the veterinary industry.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to today's episode.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Veterinary Blueprints
podcast, where business andentrepreneurship ideas meet the
animal health and veterinaryindustry.
I am your host, bill Butler,and I just could not be more
excited.
I don't know how all of youwill feel about how excited I am
on this episode, but I'mexcited because I've got my good
friend, chris Steffel fromVersatile Insurance on here.
(00:51):
So this is our first podcastwith two insurance professionals
on the podcast.
So I don't know, it might be alittle rough but we're going to
get through it.
I say Chris is a good friend.
I've known Chris since 2010,roughly 2011.
He started his career at RBCDane Rauscher as a financial
advisor and then transitionedafter a few years to work at the
insurance brokerage that hisfather had founded and he's now
(01:14):
a managing partner there.
Chris and I met through theinsurance industry back in 2010,
through the local stateinsurance association that I
belong to, through the localstate insurance association that
I belong to.
He and another partner werereally investing in developing
relationships with insuranceagencies like mine, and I'll let
(01:35):
Chris tell a little bit of hisstory and what he offers.
But Chris and I are roughly thesame age.
We have a lot of the same ideasand principles behind how we do
business, and so we've just hada really good relationship.
And now, as I built my practicewith veterinarians and products
and services for them, chrisand his team have been a huge
(01:58):
integral part of that in addingto the value that we bring to
the practices that we work with.
So I'm very excited to haveChris Steffel, managing partner
at Versatile Insurance, with ustoday.
Welcome, chris.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Thanks a lot, Bill.
Thanks for having me and, yeah,I've enjoyed the partnership
and I think there's a lot ofgood we still have to do right.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Absolutely Nothing but open canvas in front of us,
clear, sailing ahead, I think sowhy don't you, for our guests
listening today, just a littlebit about who Chris Steffel is I
gave you a little bit of anintroduction there, but you and
your business and how you kindof fit into the insurance
industry and a little bit aboutyou.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No, absolutely.
Yeah, Bill, as you mentioned,I'm second generation in this
business that my father foundedand really we started the
business and got it going tohelp out property casualty shops
and then also financialadvisors, and what we realized
is that, you know, commercialshops such as yourself are
(02:59):
really, you know, do a lot ofbusiness in the commercial and
understand it really well.
Really, you know, do a lot ofbusiness in the commercial and
understand it really well.
But when it comes to the lifeside of the business and all the
different carriers out there,we realized that we as a
brokerage can help figure outthe best products for you guys,
kind of put the best situationstogether.
And the last four I lean on youpretty heavy.
(03:21):
You do, you do no, it's good,it's in, you know, for us it's
exciting and fun because you'vegot the relationships.
You're trying to solve a lot oftheir problems.
So we're always excited to comein and kind of bring different
solutions to the table.
And I honestly, business ischanging so much right now.
I mean, every industry is goingthrough so many different
changes and we're seeing it withsome of the clients you have.
(03:42):
So it's fun.
It's fun to figure out, youknow.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Absolutely so.
Versatile Insurance.
Your dad started it back whenwe got together.
It had a different name, butnow it's known as Versatile
Insurance, and you know.
So you know we interact in alittle bit of a different way.
So there's.
You know, when a veterinarianbuys a life insurance policy or
a disability policy out there,maybe they're buying a practice
(04:09):
and they need to buy a lifepolicy.
There's like a thousand placesfor people to buy life insurance
.
You can buy it from your bank,you can buy it from your home
and auto agent, you can buy itfrom wherever.
So how does versatile insurancefit into the insurance universe
?
And then, how does that wind upimpacting an agency like Butler
Vet Insurance?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Absolutely.
So obviously there's a lot ofdifferent factors that come into
play.
So, first and foremost, what iseven the policy to cover a loan
?
What is the best policy tocover if you've got another
partner in the business?
There's also some uniquepolicies that can really benefit
(04:51):
key individuals in theorganization which we utilize
for life insurance.
So as an organization we'llfirst of all take those factors
into play to kind of find thebest policy, but then also
health issues and then just whatis the long-term planning?
So, Bill, that's one thing Ialways appreciate with you when
we work together is we're notjust trying to solve the problem
(05:14):
for the veterinary practiceright now.
We're looking at, you know,what does it look like in 10
years?
What does it look like in 20years?
What can we do with theseproducts in retirement?
So it's a little mix of alittle bit of everything, so
Versatile.
The great advantage is we'reworking with a ton of different
brokers all over the country.
We get to see a lot of volumeand we get to work with a lot of
(05:34):
carriers to find kind of thebest product that fits for that
situation.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So our relationship, versatile Insurance just to
paint a picture for thelisteners, you know a
veterinarian doesn't callVersatile Insurance to buy an
insurance policy.
You deal direct.
So you're kind of a middleman.
You deal with the insurancecompanies and so when I go to
Chris I've got a veterinarianwho's going to buy a practice.
They say, hey, I need to get alife insurance policy for my
(06:01):
collateral life assignment.
I go to Versatile Insurance andbuy it through Chris's
brokerage.
So Versal Insurance is abrokerage, or what do you
technically call yourself as abusiness?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Brokerage is probably the best way to look at
Superstamp, but that's usuallywhat we are Our market, yeah
yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So Chris and his company have the relationship
directly to the insurancecompany.
So Pacific Life and Banner Lifeand AIG and all the different
life insurance companies and asan insurance agency I access
those companies through Chris.
So Chris has the relationshipwith the company I have the
relationship with Chris andChris is that go between.
And so in a lot of cases that'swhat happens.
(06:41):
Lot of cases, that's whathappens.
You know, it's very rare for anagency like mine to have 35
different relationships with allthe different disability
companies and all the differentlife companies and so when
you're accessing insurancesometimes those you know as the
end user for our listeners outthere, if you're a veterinarian
who owns a practice, yougenerally aren't buying it
(07:03):
directly from the insurancecompany.
There's sometimes these multiplelayers and so for us at Butler
Vet Insurance we've partneredwith Chris and his team because
it really adds a lot of tools toour toolbox that wouldn't
otherwise be there.
And that's why I wanted tobring Chris on today to talk
about his expertise, because mybackground, as Chris said, is
(07:25):
the commercial insurance side.
You know the business insuranceand workers' compensation and
all those things, and hisexperience is the life and
disability and, as we've grown,that part of our practice.
Chris and his team have been anintegral part of that, and
Chris has so much moreexperience with how these
products and I've learned somuch from him over the last
(07:48):
three to five years here on howto integrate these products in.
So you know, before we hop downhere, chris, you mentioned
three or four products that arereally key in you know to use
the word key in a veterinarypractice, and why don't you list
a few of those off for thelisteners?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Sure, you know, right now what we're seeing and this
is something that's really kindof picked up because of just
where all industries are at istrying to either attract or
retain key people that you'vegot in place, and so one of the
things that we're doing is, Imean, one is just offering
benefits to those keyindividuals.
But there's also some prettyunique products that are out
(08:30):
there now where the organizationcan actually put a little extra
funding aside for thatindividual to stay with the
organization.
So it's an incentive, you know,for that individual to stay and
at the same time it puts alittle bit of ease on the
practice to know that they'vegot something, that individual
to stay, and at the same time,it puts a little bit of ease on
the on the practice to know thatthey've got somebody that wants
to stay with the company.
So that's probably been the big, the big area.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So that's those are we.
We will call them deferredcompensation plans, and so you
know, we, chris and I hadactually in another one of our
agents here at Butler VetInsurance, we're actually having
some, some meetings with withour clients about deferred
(09:12):
compensation plans to put somethings in place, and we'll dive
into that a little bit more.
So deferred comps one and thenwhat are a couple others that
we're dealing with a lot rightnow.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You know, one of the things is is we'll see when
somebody takes out an SBA loanor if they're buying a practice
or expanding a practice, thebank a lot of times will require
a life policy and a disabilitypolicy to offset that loan.
So for us we'll shop that outto find the best price.
If there's any health issues orproblems that they've got,
(09:40):
we're able to find a carrierthat will actually usually fit
into that space.
So that's when we're seeing alot right now.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and so for our veterinarians out there who are
looking to acquire a practice,be prepared.
Yes, because the life insuranceand what we've been running
into is the lenders out thereand I know a lot of them is that
the lenders and theunderwriting team at the lending
department are requiring veryhigh limits of life insurance.
(10:08):
That you know you got to coverthe full value of the loan.
But then also what we'refinding is a couple of lenders
are putting some bigrequirements in on the
disability insurance and it'sactually eye-opening for Chris
and us.
We're going holy cow.
They need a $20,000 disabilitypolicy to cover the loan payment
.
So be prepared on that.
So you know, the collateralassignment of disability not
(10:29):
collateral assignment ofdisability, but having a
disability policy in place andmaking sure that that's
compliant and then collateralassignment of life insurance and
we're going to circle back tojust the general life insurance
to the veterinarian.
But what are?
I think there's probably twoother policies that are kind of
key for a practice to have inplace.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, one of the things we just see is if there
are partners within anorganization having insurance in
place if something was tohappen, both on the disability
or on the life side, to buy theother partner out.
And then, in addition to that,is even the personal insurance
is another space, you know.
We want to make sure that, ifsomething was to happen, that
(11:13):
the spouse has enough insurancein place to allow time for that
practice to sell.
You know, oftentimes, billwe've seen it so many times over
the last decade where theydon't have the proper personal
insurance in place, somethinghappens and then they have to
sell a business very quickly andso they require the right
individual, you know, in placeon it.
(11:35):
Um, so those are definitely thespaces and the disability, you
know I I think the thing is is,uh, the one thing we see in the
veterinary space and in themedical field is that early on
in their college career, thedisability gets talked about a
lot, and the reason why thatgets brought up is that you know
, if it's a hand injury or a leginjury, the ability to not
(11:58):
stand, it really makes itdifficult to do, to actually
practice in both spaces, and sowe want to make sure that they
have the right policy in place.
That's one of the biggestthings we want to make sure the
language is right.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And so, yeah, talking about that for a second and
diving in on the disabilitypiece.
So disability insurance, inlayman's terms, is income
protection.
What you're, what you'reprotecting is you're protecting
your personal income in case ofa disability, and there's
short-term policies andlong-term policies and we won't
really get in the weeds on that.
But really, whatever kind ofdisability policy you're buying,
(12:35):
you're protecting your income.
And because veterinarians arehigher wage earners and they're
specialized, you can't transferthat skill to something else.
If you can't practiceveterinary medicine, that
income's potentially gone.
You want to protect it.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
And the other thing, too is we were talking about the
loans before too and even theexpenses of the organization.
There are policies that you canbuy that, if you do become
disabled, not only does it coveryour income but it also can
cover the expenses of thebusiness itself.
And so, ultimately, if you'vebuilt a great practice up and
you've got a number of differentveterinarians that are involved
(13:15):
with that and staff, the ideawould be is, can you offset some
of that cost to incentivizesomebody to come in to take over
that practice?
Or you know where you're stillmaybe even involved with it?
So that's some of theconversations we can have,
depending on how big thepractice is and what their
long-term you know goals arewith it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
We were just actually working on a case together and
it was, you know, kind ofshocking where you looked at the
income for the veterinarian at35 and they said, you know, said
the earning potential betweennow and even with the lower
income that they had was like$2.8 million of just personal
income, W-2.
And they own the practice.
(13:56):
So obviously they're havingsome tax advantages there as
well and probably having somepass through, but just on their
W-2 income, you know you'retalking about $2.8 million and
if they couldn't practiceanymore and they didn't have
that disability policy in place,that was just lost money to
them.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
That's right.
Yeah, it's a big number to tryto make up.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, so having having those policies structured
properly, and, and then, um,you can also take out a key
person policy.
So why don't you just talkbriefly about key person life
and disability and what you'reseeing in the space on those?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, especially, you know, and it could be what we
always kind of think about fromkey people too.
It can't.
It can be the ones that areactually practicing.
It could be an office manager.
There's a lot of key peoplethat can be part of an
organization.
So what these policies do is,if they become disabled or if
they pass away, the insurancewill actually pay to the
(14:49):
organization to help replacethat individual.
So usually what we're doing iswe're working with the practice
organization to make sure, firstof all, that that individual,
for their family or as anindividual, they have options to
be able to make sure insurancegoes back to them.
But the problem, and probablythe big miss thing, is the
replacement, to be able toreplace that person.
(15:10):
And honestly, bill, the thingthat I've seen be just so
detrimental is the disability,because it can go on.
It could go on for a year ortwo.
You don't want to let that keyperson that's helped you build
your business just have to dealwith that with their family, and
so it really becomes a win-winon both sides of it if something
(15:30):
was to come up, just becausethat way you've got now money to
be able to go out and try torecruit, and it's not just the
salary, I mean.
I think everybody knows they'rehaving trouble recruit people.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I mean, imagine if you can have double their income
to do an incentive bonus tobring them over.
And that's the stuff I thinkthat is.
You know, we see can make sucha big difference to keep that
practice going.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So it's not necessarily cost prohibitive
either.
I mean, you know, we're workingon some of these cases together
and you know, for the veteransout there who say it sounds kind
of morbid that if you know, ifI own the practice and Chris
works for me, he's an associateand he dies, I get paid, that's
kind of a morbid thought.
But at the end of the day,chris, chris is my top vet at my
(16:14):
practice.
He's generating, you know, sixor $700,000 in revenue, or a
million dollars in revenue tothe practice, and he died in a
car accident or he had a heartattack and passed away in
revenue to the practice and hedied in a car accident or he had
a heart attack and passed away.
I have to now figure out howI'm going to replace that
$600,000 to a million dollars inrevenue and I've got to try and
(16:35):
hire an associate.
But he was my top producer andso we're doing quotes for a
$500,000 term policy and thesepremiums on a 35-year-old are
200 bucks a year for 20 yearsand so it's strategically having
these conversations to protectthe investment in that
individual as an earner for thepractice, because they're key
(16:57):
people.
I mean, that's why they'recalled key persons.
So what you're saying, chris,is there's policies out there if
a key individual, whetherthat's a practice manager or
associate veterinarian, if theydied or were disabled, there's
insurance in place that wouldactually pay the practice back.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yep, that's exactly it, and I think overall in the
industry there's not a lot ofknowledge on that.
I mean, I think it's somethingthat we usually get really good
response back from businessesand I think I like the fact that
you brought up the cost of it.
I think that there is aconception that it's very
expensive and it's really notbecause we're solving for more
(17:34):
of a catastrophic type situation.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Now this isn't somebody who's out for two weeks
because they got COVID overChristmas.
This is, you know veterinariangot into a car accident.
It's your associate.
They broke their arm and nowthey're.
You know, they're your topsurgeon in the practice and now
they're not practicing surgeryfor six months while they
recover.
So so key person life.
Let's dig into the deferredcomp a little bit, because this
(17:57):
is the conversations we'rehaving with some of the
veterinarians we're speakingwith.
It's very interesting ofespecially one veterinarian in
particular that we're dealingwith, very knowledgeable on the
topic.
So what does deferredcompensation mean and how do
those plans work?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yep, so what it is is it's both the individual or the
employee and the employeractually.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
So let's say it's an associate veterinarian at the
practice.
You just hire a brand newassociate and you say are you
going to bring a new associateon board and you would say I
want to defer some compensationand I can do this with life
insurance.
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yep.
So both individuals actuallyown the policy, but the actual
dollar amounts sit with thebusiness.
And so the idea is is thatwe're building up a cash value
in the plan that sits on thecash on the books for the
business.
If that individual was to leavewithin that period of time
let's say you said the goal wasto do 10 years that individual
(18:57):
left in the fifth year the moneywould actually stay with the
company.
So that's the incentive toactually stay with the company.
So that's the incentive toactually stay.
And so what we're usually seeinghappen is they'll take, let's
say, a base salary and they'llput this over and above it.
So, let's say the base salaryis $100,000 and that's kind of
market range.
(19:18):
They'll do, let's say, another$10,000 into a plan like this to
keep, retain that individualand really reward them at the
end of the 10 years to actuallystay.
And what's kind of unique aboutit, bill, is, once it moves
over to the individual, there isthat needs to be paid when it
moves over.
But what's unique about theinsurance plan is that money can
(19:39):
be taken out of that plan lateron, is that money can be taken
out of that plan later on.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, so Bill owns a veterinary practice.
Chris is just out of school andI want to bring him on board
and he's got student loans andhe wants to keep his student
loan payments as low as possible.
So he wants to keep his incomeas low as possible.
So this is a way for Chris todefer some compensation away.
So instead of having to paystudent loans on $110,000, he's
(20:04):
only going to pay student loanson $110,000, he's only going to
pay student loans on 100.
As a new vet coming in, we'lljust use the 100,000 number.
And so I would put $10,000 ayear into a life insurance plan
that would accrue interest andhave all the benefits of a whole
life or a permanent lifeproduct.
And Chris and I signed acontract that at the end of 10
(20:26):
years Chris gets control of thispolicy with all the cash value
and all the interest that'saccrued after 10 years.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
That's exactly right.
Yep 100%.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And at the end of 10 years you would have to pay the
tax on the money that's there.
But you could use the lifeinsurance policy to pay the
taxes.
So you didn't have to pay FICA,social security, 401k, all that
tax as part of this deferredcomp plan.
It would get paid as part ofthe benefit at the end.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yep, when the benefit moves over, you can utilize the
cash value in there then tooffset that the tax that would
have to be paid then at thatpoint.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
But year five, you say you know Bill's an idiot and
I don't want to work for himanymore.
I'm going to go over to youknow, I'm going to start my own
vet practice and you leave.
I get to keep all the moneythat I put in.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's right.
Yeah, that's where the yeah,where the basically the benefit
for the company is to try toretain that individual.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
And there's obviously some tax advantages for the
business in there becausethey're not paying table taxes
and this sort of thing.
And so the interest has beenthe conversations that you know
we've been having with some ofour clients and practices is,
you know, they have youngerveterinarians that wanted to
defer this compensation, right,yep, and the business wants to
be able to incentivize theirpeople to stick around.
(21:42):
So you're putting essentiallyyou know I don't like to use the
term golden handcuffs, butreally you're saying at the end
of 10 years.
You know, so if I put $10,000 ayear into these things, where
does that wind up going?
I mean, what kind of dollarsare we talking about, chris?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
You know, usually the products that we're going into
are going to get somewherebetween a 5% to 6% rate of
return.
Is what we're going to shoot foron it.
Now there is some cost andexpense to the insurance plan
and having it from there, butyou will get some growth on it.
So obviously the longer periodof time, the more interest will
actually grow on it.
But it does grow and we usuallylike to use index products
(22:19):
because they do have a littlebit of downside protection on
them.
So it's not like if we gothrough a major market downturn
that they're going to lose a lot.
So you're getting a little bitof return on it.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Plus, it's a life insurance policy where, if you
do wind up passing away, thespouse would actually
potentially have a lifeinsurance product there and at
the end of 10 years you couldsay you know what?
I'm just going to leave thishere and let it keep accruing
interest all the way toretirement as a retirement plan
and keep that policy in placeand not cash it out.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
So these are again with the key person life and the
deferred compensation.
It's interesting because everypractice that we've mentioned
this to they go I didn't evenknow that existed, holy cow.
That's very interesting, andespecially in the tight job
market in the veterinary worldright now for associates and
this doesn't have to be justveterinarians right, you could
(23:12):
put one of these deferredcompensation plans in for a
practice manager who's been withyou for 10 years and you say,
look, I want to give you a raise, but we're going to put 10,000
a year into this deferred compplan to keep them around for 10
years.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Absolutely, and that's what we're seeing, I mean
across all industries.
A lot of times that key personis that office manager or
somebody that's managing somekind of type of business.
So, bill, one thing I want tobring up because this came up in
a meeting that we were in is Iremember the vet was saying you
(23:45):
know, we really are seeingpeople go two different paths.
We're seeing where a youngvet's coming in and they
eventually want to buy or owntheir own practice.
We have other vets that come inthat are like just want to do
the job.
They went into the industry notto be a business owner but to
just to be a veterinarian be abusiness owner but to just to be
a veterinarian.
(24:05):
And what I think is really neatabout the plans that we're
talking about is when that lumpsum comes out at the end of 10
years, it can be used forretirement planning.
It can be used with the ideathat they can take cash out or
leave in the death benefit.
But you could also utilize thecash value to be a way to fund a
loan to buy a practice.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Getting assets to be able to buy it.
So that was something that wepicked up in one of the meetings
that I thought was just areally great idea, because that
is the issue.
We have veterinarians that wantto buy these practices out
after 10 or 15 years, but theydon't necessarily have the
dollars set aside to make thatdown payment.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
So you can be putting money away as a practice into a
deferred compensation plan thatthat veterinarian could
eventually use as their buy-into be a partner at your practice
.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yep, yeah, I love the concept.
It's just a great conceptoverall.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, he brought that up to us.
We were sitting at the meetingat lunch and he brought that up
and I was like, holy, that's agreat idea.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Great idea.
You know I mean it's a bigissue right now, because you
know what a practice cost 15years ago and what it costs now.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's a big deal, Holy cow yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
You know it's a very big number between the building
and the practice as a whole.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, very big number between the building and the
practice as a whole.
So yeah, so you know those aresome products available to
protect the practice for theemployees or the.
You know the, the associatethat you've got a key person
life, key person disability.
You know we touched on thedeferred compensation and and
you know, disability on theveterinarian.
Whether you know, I can'toverstate that if you're a one
(25:43):
or two vet practice, that havinga disability policy in place on
yourself, I mean you know for$80,000 in benefit annually.
So if you just say you knowwe're going to get 60% of my W-2
income covered and I'm payingmyself, you know let's say
$100,000 a year, you get $60,000of benefit, just again with our
100,000 number.
(26:04):
You're relatively young, you'reunder age 45.
I mean these are three grand ayear to protect $60,000 of
income.
And I think there's a lot ofmisconception about cost of
insurance and investment butit's really about protecting
your personal income.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Absolutely yeah, and, like you said, the cost is not
that much and some of the planseven have the ability where you
can get all your money backafter you return a premium.
By the time you hit 65.
So there's, they definitely aremaking it much, much, much more
easier now to be able to get itand have benefits to be able to
have.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So yeah, I was meeting with a veterinarian.
They were they were doingacquisition and they looked at
the premium and said you knowthe return of premium.
So basically I pay an extra$150 a month but at the end of
paying all this in, I get 100%of my money back At the end of
when I turn 65, well, why don'tI just pay the extra $150?
Otherwise, I'm just throwingall the rest of the money away
(27:00):
if I never use the policy.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So you look at it and go, ah, it's kind of some money
but it's not too bad.
You've got a couple ofinteresting stories and I think
kind of the last thing is justgeneral life insurance overall
and some misconceptions.
And this has been one of thegreatest things that I really
appreciate about ourrelationship is, you know, I
think from a life insuranceperspective and you've probably
(27:29):
seen this a lot more over yourcareer there's been a lot of old
school thinking about how tosell life insurance and the
amount of life insuranceindividuals need, and you take a
much different approach to, andyou really opened our eyes to
how to look at life insurance asa product to protect your
family.
Why don't you talk a little bitabout how that came about at
(27:51):
your practice and how you knowyour conversations with agents
like me changed over the years,talking about life insurance and
protecting your family and youknow this is just a general plug
out there.
I don't care if you buy apolicy from me or not or
anywhere else when you buy alife insurance policy.
This is the mindset to have andI got this from Chris.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah, no, it's a story I share.
A lot, you know, we've probably, as an organization, have paid
out, you know, several hundreddeath claims over the years and
we had one where I had twoindividuals that one was a
broker, one was a financialadvisor and one of their good
friends passed away in hisforties heart attack and very
successful individual.
(28:33):
And what happened was they didnot have much life insurance on
the individual.
And after that happened, bill,I really kind of looked at it
and said I think the problem isis we've made it too complicated
.
And you know we were looking attrying to figure out what's the
debt, what's the expenses.
We've got to figure out whatthe business.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
You know all these If you've ever sat down with a
financial advisor.
You fill out a risk assessmentand all the things and you
figure out what the need is andthen you know it's a complicated
math formula to figure out.
Well, how much death benefit doI need to cover all the numbers
and it's a moving target andjust it gets complicated.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
And so we, just we kind of came up with the idea
that, you know, after I saw allthese death claims paid out, we
really came up with the ideathat we're trying to replace
income and we would just and howdid you come up with that?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So when you talk about replacing income versus
death benefit and the actual youknow, you say, okay, well, this
is how much life insurance Ineed.
How did you know?
And the individual passed awaythat you were talking about in
the story, what was the you know?
You don't have to give exactnumbers, but, like, how did that
epiphany happen?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
You know, once we did that in the little month that
came out I really thought aboutit and said you know really what
happens at death.
It's a lot like retirement andthe fact of what bill in the
financial advisor realm for aclient is.
You should never take any morethan four to 5% of your
(30:09):
portfolio per year.
So I would use simple math.
A million dollars is 40 to$50,000 a year.
That's it.
So a million dollars looks likea big number, but when you say
40 or $50,000, it's not.
It's not a big number.
And so for us, what we alwayslook at is if we're looking for
the right amount of insuranceand we've got an individual that
(30:31):
makes $100,000 a year.
The math is real simple.
You just need to have $2million of assets.
So if you don't have any assets, we use the death benefit which
would give us that $100,000 ofincome back a year.
And let's say they had, you know, $500,000 of liquid cash.
Well, now we only need $1.5million $1.5, yep, Pretty simple
(30:54):
.
So the scenario that happenedBill, the family.
He was making about $350,000 ayear.
They had a beautiful home, theyhad nice property they lived in
a small town in Wisconsin sothey were living very, very well
and they only had about$600,000 of insurance.
So they ended up having to sellthe house.
The wife had to sell the house.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
So if you think about the math right and you're
talking about income replacement, you so a remaining spouse got
a check for $600,000 in deathbenefit.
So when you talk about deathbenefit check, somebody passes
away and the insurance, lifeinsurance company writes a check
for whatever the death benefitwas, and in this case it was
$600,000.
The surviving spouse takes thatcheck and what do they do with
(31:37):
it?
They put it in the bank.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yep, they usually go to the bank or go to an advisor,
you know, and the advisor, ifthey go to the advisor, the
advisor is going to say how longdo you want it to last for?
Well, if her expenses are 200grand a year for everything,
it's going to last three yearsthree.
I mean you can't get enoughtime to build up any investment
on it and it's gone.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
And so when you, when you're, you know if you're a
$200,000 a year household income.
You know you got two spouseseach making a hundred thousand
and one spouse passes away, butyou're used to spending $200,000
a year.
It's really hard to cut ahundred thousand expenses out of
your lifestyle.
Once that's gone, and if thedeath benefit that you receive
is only $300,000, all thatmoney's gone in three years.
(32:19):
And I think, historically, asinsurance professionals, what
we've done is we say, okay,you've got a $300,000 mortgage
and you got $50,000 in creditcard debt and car debt and
whatever.
So we're at $350,000 and yougot some student loans and some
other debt.
So we're going to buy a$400,000 life insurance policy
and we're going to buy a$400,000 30-year term and then
(32:43):
you pass away $400,000 30-yearterm and then you pass away and
at the end of four years yourspouse is out of money and they
have to sell the house and moveback in with mom and dad, with
the kids, because they continuedto spend like you were alive,
because they got the $400,000death benefit.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
And it worked when you looked at the 70s and 80s.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Taxes weren't high, cost of living was a lot lower.
So if you paid your debt off,we haven't.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We haven't started selling more life insurance,
like we're still selling fourhundred thousand dollars in life
insurance.
Like it's 1982.
Four hundred thousand dollarsin 1982 would get you to
retirement yes, it was a bignumber.
Yeah, not anymore it's, butwe're still selling four hundred
thousand dollars in lifeinsurance, thinking that it's
enough money to get you toretirement, and it's just not
yeah, it's probably one of thebiggest things.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I just see it, the industry and I, you know, the
thing is is 10 years ago, when Iwas 10 years into the business,
you know I've saw a couple ofdeath claims.
But boy you really.
You know, now I'm hitting my20th year and we paid so many
out and I've seen it on bothsides.
I've seen it where they've hadthe proper coverage, They've
been allowed to mourn for theloss, They've been able to keep
(33:45):
kids in activities.
They've been able to keep theirhome and keep lifestyle going.
And then I've seen it on theother side and it's just.
The problem is is, if you don'thave the right amount in place,
you don't get time to mourn,you just don't Because it's like
it's go time right.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Like $.
It's like it's go time, right.
$200,000 sounds like a lot ofmoney when you're buying the
insurance policy in the frontend.
Yes, you say, oh yeah, $250,000.
Our house is $250,000.
Like that's a big number.
But when you say I'm 40 and Ihave to make this $250,000 now
last to age 65, because myspouse is gone and I don't have
(34:22):
that money anymore, that's adifferent conversation.
So the conversation that wehave with our veterinary
partners is how long do you wantyour income to last for if
you're not here anymore?
Do you want it to last for 10years?
Do you want it to last for 20years?
Do you want it to last for therest of your life?
Because those are differentnumbers.
(34:45):
If you say I'm making $100,000 ayear and I want to last 10
years, you need to buy like$850,000 worth of insurance,
because you know you're going toput the money in the bank or
you're going to work with yourfinancial advisor and there'll
be a rate of return.
So you don't have to buy a fullmillion.
But if you want that money tolast a number of years and it's
your income number you need tomake it a bigger number.
What's surprising and I thinkthis is.
(35:05):
You know.
We'll kind of start wrapping upwith this.
They actually changed theactuarial tables a number of
years ago, didn't they?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
They did.
Yeah, people are living longer,so the cost has actually went
down on insurance over the years.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
So if you say I need a life insurance, you know for
the majority of it we're talkingabout term life products.
So we're saying I'm going tobuy a life policy until age 65,
until age 70, or for the life ofmy business loan.
And so if you say you're 40 andyou need a 25-year term policy
and it's $1.7 million, I meanwhat are the premiums on those,
(35:39):
chris?
If you're young and relativelyhealthy, it's like $1,500 or
$1,700 a year.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So I think that the mindset and conception overall
across consumers on life anddisability products is they're
cost prohibitive and that thebigger the number.
And, what was surprising, wewere working on another case
together.
He said, well, just quote 1.9.
Don't quote 2 because thenumbers change.
And we changed the number.
I was like holy cow.
That was a big savings and atthe end of the day that 100,000
(36:09):
isn't really going to make a bigdifference.
But going from 400,000 incoverage to 1.9 million, that's
generational change for thefamily.
And again you talked aboutgiving time to mourn.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, that's the key, after you see these and what it
means.
And then, especially withbusinesses, I I mean we probably
have seen 30 or 40 businesseswhere they didn't have the
proper insurance and I mean it'sit's really sad to see a
business that really should beworth 3 million having to sell
for a million and a half becausethey have to get rid of it.
(36:39):
You know, and that's the otherthing too is I mean, if you've
got enough death benefit ordisability, it really slows down
the process to be able to takethe time to keep that business
operating and then move to thenext set of hands.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah.
So if you had one piece ofadvice for the our listeners out
there today, as somebody who'sbeen in the life world,
financial advising world, yourentire career, all the way back
to when you're a young babyfinancial advisor intern at RBC
Dane Rauscher in 1999.
What would it be, chris?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
I think the big thing is is there's actually two
parts for me.
One is it's not usually asexpensive as you think, so don't
let that scare you away.
Well, actually, I'm going to dothree parts for you.
If you got health issues, don'tworry about it.
That's what we're behind thescenes doing.
We'll shop it out.
Surprisingly, they'll take alot of health issues these days.
(37:37):
And second thing is reviewevery time you have a life
change If it's a new child, adivorce, upgrading your job, you
know, retirement, whateverthat's the best thing I think
always is look at your insurancewhen there's a change in life.
That's all you've got toremember.
And with that you can usuallyfigure out what you need to.
(38:00):
You know to have?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
What do you, what does what does done look like,
or what is the end in mind?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Retirement and death and legacy.
I mean for me, when we're doingthe planning with any
organization, I'm actuallyalready thinking about the next
generation.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
You know, I mean, I think that if it's buying a term
policy bill, or if it's buyingpermanent or whatever, let's not
just think about what we'redoing today.
Let's think about whatretirement looks like.
What does it look like to leavea legacy, you know either, to
your family?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
It's so hard though, because these conversations
right and I'm sure you you knowyou've done so much more of this
than we have at Butler VetInsurance but just generally,
overall, I think the problemwith the human condition is we
don't want to face our ownmortality, we don't want to talk
about death, we don't want tothink that someday we're all
going to die.
I got news for everyone on thispodcast the Grim Reaper is a
(38:56):
thousand and oh and.
So it's really, as Chris said,talking about legacy and talking
about making sure that what youhad intended for your family,
whatever that looks like, yourfamily unit, whatever that looks
like is there and in place andfind a professional wherever you
(39:17):
are out there in the world.
Obviously, chris and I loveworking with veterinarians, but
wherever you are in the worldthere's, there's resources
available to to talk to thesepeople.
If, if there's anyone out therethat does want to reach out to
you, how do they get a hold ofChris Steffel?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Absolutely, yep, you can my email address and Bill, I
can give that right now if youwant.
It's CTS at VISINScom or myphone number is 612-600-7243.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
And you're also on LinkedIn pretty heavy out there
as well, Very involved withLinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yep, we're doing a lot of different posts and
information.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So we'll have some of that information in the show
notes for anyone else that wantsto reach out.
But you know again, don't letthe numbers scare you.
If.
If you get some health hiccups,don't let that scare you off.
There's lots of products andavailability out there and just
if you've got a life change,make sure to review your
insurance and make sure it is upto snuff, based on what you
need and what you want it to dofor your family.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yep, absolutely Thanks, Bill.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well, thanks so much for joining us today on this
podcast, chris.
We try, you know it's thehealth and life insurance part.
Just disability.
It's not always fun to talkabout, but I'm glad you shared
some of your insights today,chris.
And, as always for our podcastlisteners, make sure to like,
(40:43):
follow and review the podcast,share it with your friends out
there on social media and welook forward to joining you,
having you join us on the nextepisode of the Veterinary
Blueprints Podcast.
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