August 19, 2024 • 46 mins
Ready to elevate your veterinary practice to the next level? Join us in this episode of the Veterinary Blueprints Podcast as we welcome Ryan Whitley, Vice President of Business Development at RWE Design Build. Ryan's fascinating journey, which began at Midmark and led him to his current role designing state-of-the-art veterinary facilities, is filled with insights and practical advice for anyone in the veterinary field.
Discover what it takes to create a truly exceptional veterinary clinic, from selecting durable materials to designing with both functionality and budget in mind. Ryan shares real-life examples illustrating the importance of experience in designing and building a veterinary practice. Learn how thoughtful design can enhance both the workflow for veterinarians and the experience for their animal patients, ensuring your clinic is not only efficient but also welcoming and supportive.
We also tackle common pitfalls in veterinary facility design and the importance of engaging experts early in your project. Hear about the value of industry-specific knowledge and how collaboration can lead to successful outcomes. Whether you're planning a new clinic or looking to expand, this episode is packed with valuable information on avoiding costly mistakes and achieving a balanced, functional, and aesthetically pleasing veterinary practice. Don’t miss out on expert insights that could transform your approach to veterinary facility design!
Guest
Ryan Whitley
VP of Business Development
RWE Design Build
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-whitley-8a58434/
Email - ryan@rwedesignbuild.com
Host Information
Bill Butler – Contact Information
Direct – 952-208-7220
https://butlervetinsurance.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/billbutler-cic/
Schedule a Strategy Session with Bill – Strategy Session
Podcast Sponsored By:
Butler Vet Insurance: We wrote the Book on Veterinary Insurance
Running a successful veterinary practice comes with its challenges. At Butler Vet Insurance, we specialize in simplifying insurance for professionals like you.
"Protecting Your Veterinary Practice": Your Guide to Stress-Free Insurance
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast
brought to you by Butler VetInsurance.
Hosted by Bill Butler, theVeterinary Blueprint Podcast is
for veterinarians and practicemanagers who are looking to
learn about working on theirpractice instead of in their
practice.
Each episode we will bring yousuccessful, proven blueprints
from others, both inside andoutside the veterinary industry.
(00:21):
Welcome to today's episode.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to another exciting episode of the
Veterinary Blueprints Podcast,where animal health meets
entrepreneurship and businessideas.
I am your host, bill Butler,and today we have a very special
guest joining us, ryan Whitley,vice President of Business
Development at RWE Design Build.
Ryan's going to bring over 14years of experience in animal
(00:46):
health industry, with a deepunderstanding of how to improve
the point of care experience forboth patients and caregivers.
At RWE Design Build, he's beeninstrumental in creating
innovative solutions forveterinary practices, ensuring
they have the best facilities todeliver exceptional care.
In today's episode, we'll diveinto Ryan's journey from his
(01:06):
extensive tenure at Midmark tohis current role at RWE Design
Build.
We'll explore the uniquechallenges and opportunities in
designing and buildingstate-of-the-art veterinary
facilities and how theseinnovations are shaping the
future of animal health care.
So stay tuned as we uncoverRyan's insights on emerging
business acumen with passion foranimal health and how practice
(01:28):
design can drive progress in theveterinary field.
This is a episode you don'twant to miss, so welcome Ryan.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Thank you, sir.
That was an inspirationalintroduction and I hope I can
live up to it.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, we'll find out, that's right.
So welcome Ryan.
You and I met at VMX up to it.
Well, we'll find out, that'sright.
So welcome Ryan.
You and I met at VMX this yeardown in Orlando, correct?
Kind of that last day, lasthour kind of thing during VMX.
Right, that's correct.
So first, why don't you tell usa little bit about who Ryan is,
how you're involved in animalhealth and what you're currently
(02:02):
doing at RWE Design Build?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Sure, started out 15 years ago or so, was lucky
enough to get introduced to somefolks at Midmark who at that
time were not a huge name inanimal health Huge on the human
medical side, developing on thehuman dental side Probably like
one of the luckiest things thatever happened to me.
(02:24):
They're an amazing company,great partner for anybody in the
industry.
They're a very unique companyfrom a manufacturing perspective
just because of the breadth ofproducts that they make.
But I grew up with them soalways wanted to be a part of
the animal health community.
Grew up as one of those kidswho brought everything home with
them you know, wanted every dogthey saw.
(02:45):
Thought I was going to be aveterinarian.
Figured out pretty quickly thatI was bad at chemistry and
science and just payingattention in general for some
things.
So figured I would try adifferent path and you know, did
the only thing I kind of knewgrowing up in a clinic.
I worked at a vet clinic forfive years doing all the things
that you know young kids do whenthey grow up trying to be a
(03:06):
technician, cleaning kennels,all that good stuff.
So got some real, good, reallife experience doing that and
then just kind of parlayed thatover to trying to get into jobs
with, like you know, marielleFrontline, like anything that.
I saw coming to the door, likeyou know that looks great.
You're walking into clinics allthe time and that path never
really materialized for me.
(03:30):
But I did run into Midmark, whowas gracious enough to give me a
chance and started a careerwith them up in Chicago being
their animal health rep and justloved it.
Just loved the industry, thepeople that you get to work with
, whether it's distribution,financial partners, real estate
partners, but more importantly,just veterinarians and their
staff, like I think the thing Ilove most about this industry
once you get into it you findthat people don't leave.
(03:52):
They may change companies butthey don't leave.
It's just that it's a big,small community and you kind of
take care of each other andyou're focused on your industry
and the health of the industry.
And I don't know anybody thatreally gets into animal health
with the first thought of likeI'm going to make some money.
It's always everybody has thesame kind of initial, you know,
goal, which is, you know, loveof animals, wanting to better
(04:14):
the industry.
So you know that's always kindof what's kept my interest in
wanting to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So how did you transition from Midmark to RWE
Design Build and what did thatlook like for you in you know
saying, okay, I've got my feetunderneath me in the industry
with Midmark and the opportunityat RWE, and now that you're
there, you know, working inChicago for Midmark, that's
where RWE's, that's where ourhome base is right.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So that's where it all started 25 years ago.
The guy named Bob the Build thebuilder, who hooked up with
some local Chicago veterinariansand just trying to figure out
how do we, how do we make betterclinics right?
You know both medicine wise andmore profitable.
And that just grew into youknow this, this awesome, you
know situation where not onlywere was Bob working with these
(05:05):
local vets, but all of a suddenword spread and RWE just became
the name for building veterinaryclinics in Chicago.
So, obviously, working for acompany that builds equipment
for veterinary clinics, it justmade sense for me to partner
with these guys.
You know, years over years, aguy named Jason Sanderson, who
is the son-in-law of Bob, whostarted the company, eventually
(05:27):
took over and bought the company.
Him and I just had a reallygreat relationship.
If you ever meet Jason, you'llunderstand very quickly why he's
successful.
He's a straightforward guy.
He's usually the smartest guyin the room.
He just knows what it takes tobuild efficiently and build well
, but he also cares right.
Like you know, I was withMidmark for 15 years.
(05:48):
I've already said like howgreat they are right.
So it took a lot for me toleave Midmark and I wouldn't
have done it for a lot ofsituations.
And I did it for them because Ibelieve in what RWE has already
done, how they do business andyou know our ability to help the
industry.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So you know.
It's interesting that youmentioned that because you know,
for me in the insurance worldit's a little similar, right
Like I didn't know that Ispecifically said I wanted to be
a veterinarian.
But just like in sixth grade Iwrote a paper about
veterinarians and why the vetindustry is important to society
(06:28):
and like the end of the paperit's actually on the shelf
behind me For those of youtuning in on a clip.
I basically said, like withoutveterinarians people would get
rabies and die and all the cowswould die, and like we wouldn't
have any food to eat.
Like that's basically thesummation of my sixth grade
paper that I got an A in.
But I think the common threadthat you really touched on, ryan
(06:50):
, is like veterinarians andpeople who work in the vet
industry overall are just reallygood people.
I've had the opportunity todabble in other industries or
work with other industries as aninsurance professional and I
can't say the same that I reallyenjoy spending time with my
clients and the other people.
Like you know you go to VMX oryou go to Western vet or you
(07:12):
know you go to the local stuffand just overall they're like
really good people in theindustry.
Veterinarians care thedifferent vendors care the like.
Everyone just kind of generallycares because it's easy to care
, because who doesn't love dogsand cats?
And you get the companion sidebut the mixed and large animal
side, and so it's just easy tocare, right A hundred percent
(07:34):
right.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I think it's been proven over and over again.
Just things that I've saidbefore in regards to people
don't leave our industry, andthere's a reason right.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It's nothing against everybody else.
I mean like I say in business.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Not everybody's a great fit for everybody.
That doesn't mean you're notgood at your job.
It doesn't mean your industry'snot great.
It's just certain people, Ithink, interact well with others
better, and that's a piece ofthe puzzle.
And there's just good people inanimal health.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, it's like I'm a huge hockey fan.
It's like the NHL player of theof the business world.
Like you know, nhl players aredown to earth, they drive pickup
trucks, they might make a tonof money but, like you, just
never know that they don't havea lot of the.
The majority of them just don'thave that kind of flash, and I
think that's that's true in theanimal health world, where you
(08:21):
just they're, you know the, thebusiness owners world, where you
just they're, you know the, thebusiness owners, the practice
owners and the associates arejust you know they're down to
earth.
So we met the last day of VMXdown in down in Orlando.
I'm cruising the floor and theexpo hall and I I stopped by
your booth.
Actually, I was just walking byyour booth and it said number
(08:41):
one I forget exactly what itsays Number one design build for
veterinarians.
I walked by and I actually cameback.
I kind of did that, you know,screeching, halt, walk back.
And I said why are you guysnumber one?
And you had a very good answerfor me and I'm interested to
share that with our listenerstoday what that is.
Why does RWE think?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
they're number one.
I mean to paint that pictureright.
It was kind of like thatcartoon stop right.
Like you walked by and then,like you, process the
information, and then youscooted back and was like wait a
minute, what?
Makes you number one Right.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, there's like seven other design build dudes
here, what makes you number one?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And I said, well, prove me not, right.
Like, what makes me not numberone, prove me wrong, right.
So yeah, it's funny, right.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It was just funny how we met.
It was the interaction,especially at the last day of
the thing, because you've beenthere talking to a lot of people
so you know I've done that too.
You get a little punchy.
So it was a fun, funinteraction.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
All in good fun, right, and there's some
underground humor as to, likeyou know, you can make
statistics say anything, right?
You know what are this, whatare that?
Like you know, what I wasreferring to is is this right?
But yeah, we don't have to gettoo much into it.
You know we got a new booth.
That part, that phrase, wasn'ton the new booth.
Not because of our interaction,not because of our interaction.
(09:58):
But yeah, I mean ultimately.
Yeah, it's just a funny way,it's a good story of how we met.
I still believe we're numberone just because we didn't put
it on there.
I still firmly believe in thefact.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So my booth, I've got a pop-up banner that says we
wrote the book on veterinaryinsurance.
And then, like a veterinarianwalks by and I'm like, well,
here, you want a copy of my book.
And like, oh, you really didactually write the book on
veterinary insurance.
Like, yeah, you know it's the.
You gotta have fun witheverything.
So well, let me ask you aquestion a different way than
Ryan.
What sets RWE apart and why?
(10:31):
You know that that number onething, but just generally,
overall.
You know you've been doing this, as you mentioned, rwe
specifically has been doing thisfor 25 years, so a lot of
experience in the space.
So you know there's a lot ofarchitect, design build firms
out there.
I mean, you know name a company, there's some big players in
the market, but then you knowthere's architects, there's
(10:51):
local builders, there's.
You know what does RWE bring tothe table and why don't you
talk about some of that processof designing and building a
veterinary practice?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, I'm happy to talk about our process and
probably just process in general, right, and what I you know,
what I would focus on more thanlike what separates RWE, you
know, and us specifically in theworld or in the industry is
more about like people who likeus, who are focused, whether
that is an architectural designfirm, whether that is other like
design build firms or even justmaybe a builder who doesn't
(11:21):
have a design piece, right, likeI would tell you, the biggest
thing is that experience mattersin anything, right, and that's
a very relatable statement.
I feel like, no matter what youdo, no matter what you do in
life right, if you go tosomebody or you're trying
something for the first timeright, it's not that you can't
do it, it's that you can do it,probably if you have enough time
(11:42):
and the ability to makemistakes and learn and all that
other stuff right.
But if you had one shot to dosomething, would you want
somebody in that part of theirgrowth process or would you want
somebody doing it that's beendoing it for 10 years, right,
and can do it very easily?
You gain the advantage of thatperson already failing right and
(12:04):
succeeding A number of times,yeah, a number of times, right,
and?
succeeding A number of times,yeah, a number of times, right,
nobody's perfect.
Everybody grows, everybodylearns, right.
So you know there's just a bigadvantage into working with
somebody who has experience andfocus under their belt Because,
like I said, you gain theadvantage of all their past
failures and experiences, right,you get to ask those questions
(12:24):
or they get to tell you aboutthe things that maybe you didn't
even think of.
So all of that comes with it,right.
So you know there's processinvolved in that and anybody who
anybody can build somethingright, just like any architect
can draw drawings right.
But you know, when theexperience comes in, it lends to
certain advantages, experiencelevels, choices.
(12:45):
You know things that youprobably don't learn to
appreciate until after the fact.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, it's like you know, I got the opportunity
upcoming episode I recorded at aveterinary practice down in
Murfreesboro, tennessee, andthey had built a beautiful new
practice.
Well, they have eight of theirexam rooms.
You can actually do the examoutside and they've got a little
corral in the exterior.
You walk through, there's agate, you can sit on a park
(13:13):
bench outside.
There's a doorway to eachindividual exam room and the
tech can come in.
They do all the work in theroom.
So if they do a blood draw,they do the blood draw in the
room.
So you get to see what thattechnician's actually doing.
A lot of glass, a lot of light.
You can actually, you know, theoperating room has a window in
(13:33):
it because it actually theorigin of the practice was a
converted house.
So the first iteration of thatexam room was actually in the
dining room with a bay window.
And so one of the surgeons, oneof the veterinarians, said if
you don't have an outside windowin the new surgery, I'm not
going to come work for you atthe new practice.
So it was like there's so muchglass and so much light, but
(13:55):
like, until you think aboutthose design features when
you're going to build it.
You just you don't have thatexperience and they put a lot of
thought into what they weregoing to do.
And I'm sure you know I'mactually having a space built
out for me because we're movingoffices and I obsessed about,
well, how about this wall andwhere's this wall go?
Because, like you're making,you know I'm just leasing an
(14:15):
office space for seven years,but if you're going to build
your own building, that is avery long-term commitment to
make sure that you havesomething in place.
So, when you're laying out anddesigning a practice, what are
some of the big things thatveterinarians just don't think
about or aren't in theirpractice, in their process?
That that maybe they're comingto the table and they just don't
(14:36):
have.
Have a thought on that theythey should have when they come
to the table to work with aarchitect or builder.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, again, I hate to keep beating the same drum,
but you know, again the wholeexperience matters thing comes
into play.
Right, and because I think ifyou don't work with somebody
who's been through the processbefore, it's very easy to fall
into the like hey, what do you?
want, Right, and then just startcreating what that that person
or that client wants, which I'mnot saying that's wrong.
(15:05):
Obviously it's their baby,Right, You're, you want to
create their dream.
You want to be a part of that.
Help them bring that out.
But I think it's also ourresponsibility to throw out
their options, things that we'veseen right, Things to think
about.
So that's definitely part ofthe process is working through
kind of like hey, like, what doyou do now?
What do you like doing?
Right, what do you focus on?
(15:27):
Right, and start to, like, youknow, make sure that we're
building the design around howthey practice, right, you talked
about a veterinarian who doeseverything inside of a clinic or
inside of an exam room, right,which is part of that process.
Right, If they're doing a lotof stuff in the exam room, okay.
But now we have to design theexam rooms around that process
right, To make it efficient andhow that flows to the rest of
(15:48):
the clinic.
First there's other people whowill practice and say, hey, the
exam room is just in theconsultation area, I don't need
barely anything in there.
Right, that's a place for theclient to have some privacy,
have a conversation, and then wehead back to.
You know the treatment area,procedure areas of the clinic
and we do things back there.
So that's a different design,right?
(16:08):
Different clinicians will focuson different parts of
veterinary medicine.
You know general practicespecialties, but even within
general practices, you've gotthings that people like to focus
on, right.
Who's in there?
Surgeons right.
Do we need a single surgerysuite?
Do we need multiple surgerysuites?
Do we need a larger surgerysuite that allows for two
surgery tables?
Are we focused on dentistry,which, if you're not focused on
(16:30):
dentistry, I would definitely do?
That.
It's a huge part of revenue orit's a huge ROI producer in
veterinary medicine, right.
So we recommend, if applicablein your space, to get a separate
dental suite, right.
And if you're not going to havetwo tables right off the bat,
if you can plan for a secondtable, because it could be a
(16:52):
booming part of your practice ifyou're going to allocate
resources towards learning thator developing it.
If not, also, let's move onNext steps, right.
So we don't have to go throughevery scenario, but that's a big
part of it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned dental, because
I've had a number ofveterinarians that I work with
who've said, oh yeah, I'm goingto start doing dental or we're
expanding our dental practice.
As you mentioned, it is a bigrevenue driver and so you know
there's a lot of opportunitiesto do that.
And if you're not planning forthat on the front end, let's say
you know your practice wasbuilt 25 years ago.
(17:28):
You're a veterinarian who mayhave bought your practice and
now you think, okay, well, now Iwant to add dental, but we
don't have room to do it.
You're converting an exam room.
Or maybe you had you know theone vet that I'm thinking about
they used to do kenneling andboarding, for you know, the
pound or the animal controlwould bring dogs in and they
stopped doing that.
So they just had all this roomwith all these extra kennels.
(17:49):
Like, well, we're going toconvert that to dental.
And so if you have space in thepractice to maybe reallocate
down the road, but you'redesigning that in now with
potential future, maybe it's notin the cards to say, well,
we're not going to do it now,but how do we maybe convert an
exam room?
Let's make one exam room alittle bigger so we can convert
it down the road and workingwith a builder who kind of has
(18:09):
some of that in mind to say,okay, well, let's not have that
as far away from the oxygen aswe possibly can.
We're going to put that oneclose so we can do anesthetics
right.
Yeah, 100% right.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Whether you're trying to renovate an existing
building right which cansomewhat limit, you know your
footprint and how you redesign,you know outside of maybe being
able to do an addition, or ifyou're doing a ground up
facility where you know you canfigure it out right?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, you can create.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, 100% right.
And whether it's focusing onadding more exam rooms, right.
Talking about ROI producersright.
Focus on adding more exam rooms, more treatment space, more
special procedure space, likedentistry, like it's got to be a
consideration right.
And even if it's not on theimmediate roadmap or plan, like
you mentioned, having a plan tomake it efficient and easy to
add in a later date is a bigpart of design, for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So working with a design build firm I mean for the
lay veterinarian out there,let's say you're just an
associate working at a practicebut you someday want to do that
you can work with an architectand you can work with a builder
and you can work with mid-markto outfit everything.
What does a design?
You know you can work with anarchitect and you can work with
a builder and you can work withyou know, mid-mark to outfit
everything.
What does a design?
You know what does it.
You know.
You talked about experience.
(19:23):
What does a design build firmdo technically?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, so I would tell you, like it's, it's a one-stop
shop, right.
So you know, there's that point.
There's some continuity in theprocess, right?
So if you have architects anddesigners internally that work
at the same company, as you knowthe build side of it, right,
there's probably someefficiencies and some synergies
there as far as, like, knowingeach other, right, so maybe you
(19:49):
don't have as much back andforth.
Well, that's their fault.
That's this, like you know, notthat no one would put a
negative light on it, but justlike you know.
There's just a one-stop shop,right.
And then there's an efficiency,with them already being very
familiar.
You can find the sameefficiency if you had an
architect and a builder thatalways work together, right,
even though there's severalentities.
But I'm just saying you knowthat these two parties know each
(20:09):
other and they're used toworking with each other.
This builder knows how to readthis architect's plans.
You're going to have a nice,successful build because you
have that history, thatcontinuity around it.
I would say the other one wouldbe like designing with a budget
in mind or from a builder'sperspective.
Right, because a builder willlook at plans much differently
(20:31):
than an architect will, and I'mnot saying one is right or one
is wrong.
But you know somebody who'spurely focused on design, you
know, could pick really goodthings for every single aspect
of it, but those really goodthings may not necessarily align
with that person's budget.
So somebody who's on both sidescan probably give a really good
(20:52):
snapshot or picture of likegoing through the design process
, maybe directing them orpresenting some scenarios where,
like, if you do that, then thisright Like here's an
alternative I might suggest thatwe have found over the last 25
years has given you a similarresult or look, but also
provides great durability and isgoing to last you a long time,
(21:15):
right?
So, again, drawing back fromthat experience piece is just
like going through that andknowing, kind of, what things
cost, what has lasted inveterinary clinics, because
that's the other stuff.
Like people who work inhealthcare right, whether they
build medical facilities, dentalfacilities or animal care
facilities right Like we're.
(21:36):
I feel like we're we're themost unique, right Like,
generally speaking and I used tosay this all the time selling,
you know, midmark cabinets, andI truly believe they're the best
option Midmark face work,synthesis shameless plug for
those guys.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I'm sure they appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You know our patients walk in and potentially are
going to pee on the cabinets,right?
You don't really have that asmuch in a lot of other
healthcare situations.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Or the lobby.
I mean, I can't tell you thenumber of practices that I go
into and I'm like, why do youhave seven candles burning and
it still smells like pee in here?
Oh, you have LPV flooring withseams and, no matter if you like
, it's not a solid surface, itgets into the flooring no matter
what you do, because it'snothing against any of the
(22:18):
practices that I work withcurrently that have LPV flooring
where there are seams in there.
But you just think if that wasceramic tile, you may not have
the same issue in the lobbywhere you have all this
happening.
And man, my parents had a blacklab.
No matter how far my parentswalked him before, he took a
huge number two right in thelobby every time, no matter what
(22:41):
they did.
And so I'm sure that experiencethat you have to say might not
want to go with this flooringoption in the lobby just based
on what you want to do, rightyeah?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And it's about giving them choices that are it
doesn't have to be moreexpensive, necessarily right, it
might just be a differentchoice that they don't know.
Or, if somebody hasn't hadexperience with that, like, oh,
laminate's laminate, right,laminate is waterproof but, like
you mentioned, right, some isseamless, some are not right,
and in our instance, you knowthat matters.
Right, it's not just anaesthetic thing.
(23:12):
We want to blend bothdurability you know anesthetics
and you know anesthetics.
And you know that goes back toanother kind of thing that we're
talking about.
Right Like when looking at GCsand experience levels right Like
it's, you know.
I think sometimes people lookat our website, which we're very
proud of brand new also,shameless plug.
It goes over some projects andsome really great stuff that we
put together.
(23:32):
It also wouldn't be on thewebsite, but I think some people
can look at that andimmediately think like, oh,
these guys must be reallyexpensive.
But it's not that we're moreexpensive, right?
It's that, again, we've beendoing this for a long time.
We know what works and wedesign to a certain spec right.
It doesn't mean that we arecharging more for our services.
(23:53):
It means that the materialsthat we use as kind of our base
process are ones that we knoware proven right, that are going
to give you the best productwhen it's all said and done, and
you're going to be happy.
Now can we design down fromthat, if needed be?
Of course we can.
Can you design up from that?
Obviously, we can do that too,if you've got the money to do it
.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
But how much?
Yeah, how much bank?
How much does the bank lend you?
You know, where do you want it.
Where do you want the money togo?
Do you want it to go intofinishes or functionality?
I think there's probably two.
You know two differentcomponents to to any sort of um.
You know, build out, whetherit's a ground up or or
renovation.
Where do you want the money togo?
And it doesn't mean that youcan't upgrade down the road,
right?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
And what you might do in different what we call front
of the house or back of thehouse.
Right, like front of the houseclient facing areas, right, you
might make different choicesthere than what you make in the
back, right as far as like youraesthetic choices.
And again it's all about justkind of knowing what works, what
doesn't work, that person'sstyle and giving them the best.
But you know it's.
You know when you're talkingabout like general questions
(24:54):
that you get right away.
How much does it cost per squarefoot?
How much does this project cost?
And it's a trick question,right?
Because-.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I get the same trick.
Question Ryan on insurance.
Like, well, how much is theinsurance going to cost?
I'm like, well, I don't know, Ihave no idea.
What do you want to do?
How much insurance do you wantto buy?
It can be as little insuranceand just what the bank requires
and you run around with hardlyany coverage.
Or do you want to build the TajMahal and have you know marble
in the employee bathroom?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I mean you can do A to B, a to Z right, yeah, 100%
right.
And that's just, like you know,again one of those early
questions.
Like it comes out a lot likehow much does it cost, right,
and you try to give generalnumbers.
But you have to be careful whenasking somebody that because
everybody has a different styleof how they deliver those
numbers right.
I always compare it to aresidential setting.
In my own experience I'veobviously just moved into a
(25:39):
house here.
I've got stuff.
Everywhere you go past a signthat says houses from the 600s
or 400s, whatever it is right,so you're thinking, oh, $400,000
house, that sounds reasonable,whatever it is right.
And then you get in the door andit's like well, you got to buy
the lot and you got to buy yourdoors, and you got to go to the
design studio and all of asudden, 400 is 800.
Real quick, Right.
And again everybody has theirown.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh, you wanted to finish basement with your house.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You know.
So you know everybody's gottheir own process.
You know, when we give outthose numbers, initially what we
try to do is we try to givethem, try to give them the
numbers where we end up, right,like generally speaking, and you
can design up and down.
But here are some numbers thatwe give out, meaning that, like
you know, if everything goes peraverage, that this is generally
where you'll end up on a costper square footage If you do it
(26:30):
to the spec that we recommend.
And again, we can play up anddown from that.
But you know, you know there'slike in any business, right,
like if you're trying to getsomebody in the door.
There's like in any business,right, like if you're trying to
get somebody in the door.
There's also a different theory, right, where you give them a
much lower and they say why areyou a hundred dollars more per
square foot?
It's like we're not moreexpensive.
We're talking about twodifferent things, right, we're
talking about differentmaterials.
You know something's differentbecause we're not just a hundred
(26:50):
dollars more per square foot.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And, and so you know, when you engage a veterinarian
who's interested in doing aproject, where does that
generally lie?
You know, have they met with abank?
Have they talked to a lender?
Have they, you know, have theyfound a lot or a location that
they want to 3,000 square feetin a strip mall that they want
to redo?
I mean, where do you generallyget engaged in the?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
process.
We love to get engaged as earlyas possible, you know, just
because I feel like, againdrawing from that experience, we
have people in-house that havebeen doing this for a long time
and I think, even withoutcharging anything, we can be a
good resource for folks inhelping them look at a space,
look at a piece of land and givethem a little due diligence up
(27:31):
front as to things that maypotentially impact their budget
or their project.
So the earlier we can beinvolved, the better.
But no matter when we getinvolved, we like to do as much,
right, like if things arealready in place.
We're not necessarily going totry to change that, but, you
know, try to add something towherever we get in so that again
, we're trying to help, you know, get this towards a more
(27:52):
positive result.
But the short answer to yourquestion is as early as possible
, but the journey could startanywhere.
Right, it all depends on yourresources, right?
And, generally speaking,distribution is obviously a
great resource for clinicsbecause they're in there all the
time.
They're kind of their eyes andears as to what's going on in
the industry.
So, generally speaking, I feellike sometimes those guys get
(28:15):
their ear pulled first inregards to thought of a new
practice and like, hey, do youknow anybody and you know that
could be commercial real estatepeople that could be banks that
are, uh, you know, focused onveterinary medicine?
Uh, or the animal healthcommunity specifically, which
again, shameless plug you know,uh, bank of America live, oh,
provide, uh, to name a few likethese are folks that have
(28:35):
specific animal health divisionsto their company right, who
have products specificallydesigned for them.
So any one of these people thatI think are focused and have
experience in the industry canbe a good starting point and
then also recommend other peoplethat obviously they feel
comfortable and confident in torecommend to be a part of that
process.
I feel like the more folks thatyou can get around you that
(28:57):
have experience in it, thebetter, and I'm not saying
that's just me, right, Iencourage people.
We were just at a conventionlast week for Animal Care,
shelter, humane Societies, whichwas an amazing show Animal Care
Expo that happened down in SanAntonio and dealing with those
folks, they were like, hey, thatquestion comes up, like where
would you start?
Who should we talk to?
I was like talk to a bunch ofpeople.
(29:18):
Like you know, I would neverstop you Like, say like and try
to guard you from talking toother architects.
Design, build firms Like theseare our peers.
They're not necessarily,they're not our enemies, right?
These are folks that I thinkyou should talk to.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
We can't build every clinic, we can't design every
clinic, so yeah, I can't insureevery vet practice and and so
you know, like you said, it'sfunny because the theme that
keeps coming up in the podcast,just generally overall, whether
it's an attorney, a CPA, abanker, design build is like you
just need a really good teamaround you as a business owner.
(29:51):
So that way, you know, causethey know animal health.
As a veterinarian, you know Ican't do a TPLO surgery.
You know, uh, just even, uh,you know, if I, if my cat Louie,
need to get castrated, I'm notdoing it at home.
I need, I need an expert, andso having that, having that
expert who understands, evenjust from a device perspective
(30:12):
and that's the thing I think isunique about this industry is,
you know, I don't I'm going tospeak for myself personally Like
if a veterinarian says, hey,bill, here's my insurance
policies, will you look at themand do these look good?
Like I'm not going to say, well,you know, I'm $300 an hour to
look at your insurance policy.
Like it's going to take me,because of my experience, 10
(30:32):
minutes to look at them and go,hey, you're missing this, this
and this.
Just call your agent and say,hey, how much does this cost?
To add, and I'm sure you know.
For you it's a little bit ofthe same where, like you said,
the first conversation is free.
Like hey, I'm looking to dothis.
What does that look like?
Like you know whether it's youor another design build firm.
Like you're going to give thatveterinarian 20 minutes, half
(30:53):
hour on the phone to talk itthrough what they want.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Ultimately, whether we're a great fit for them or
somebody else, is that's allgood, right?
My main point to them wouldjust be to like, again, focus on
somebody that has experience isgoing to give them a better
result and ultimately, whetherit's personality process,
whatever it is, if somebody is abetter fit, the connection,
that's all great.
But, like you said in thatfirst 20 minutes, 30 minutes,
whatever it is, I feel like it'sa responsible person is going
(31:19):
to give them kind of like justsome helpful tips and things to
look at when talking to anybodyso that you know they can make
the best choice for them.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
With your time now with RWE?
What are some of the biggestpitfalls or mistakes you've seen
veterinarians make with theirthought process that that you
know they get to the end of theproject and they and you, you
may have wanted to say pleasedon't do that.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And they did or they did and they said, oh, I wish I
hadn't.
Yeah, I mean, maybe not as muchnew school, right, but I would
just tell you, like you know,there are no standards in animal
health building right now.
Right, there's aha, you knowthere's fear free, like there's
certain you know, associationsthat you can get accredited from
and things like that.
But, like in the human medicalcommunity, right, you have to
(32:00):
adhere to certain standards,right, and currently for us that
doesn't exist.
Right, and I feel likesometimes there's this
methodology of like minimalismor cost effectiveness, where you
know this is the way we'vealways done it.
It's fine, right, like thatdoesn't mean like how we did
things 30, 40 years ago.
You know that your previousclinic was designed in like we
(32:23):
wouldn't design it that way.
Just because it's okay and itworks doesn't mean it's best.
And if you have the ability todo it better, like, why wouldn't
you?
Right?
So, again, it goes back tosurrounding yourself with people
, a team, that have experiencethat you know can help guide you
, and keeping an open mind.
Right, like you know,understanding cost versus value
and going through the process ofreally kind of opening the
(32:45):
doors as to, you know, what amodern day veterinary clinic can
be what makes it successful andhow does the way that I operate
, or want to operate, how canthose things come together to
give me the best possible?
Because there's, you know.
If it was the one solution forall, it would be easy.
But that's the hard part, right.
Everybody does things a littlebit differently.
(33:05):
Everybody has differentspecialties, you know, wants,
focuses.
So you know it's again goingback to the diversity.
Like you know, we've builteverything from small startup
practices to an 80,000 squarefoot ground up specialty clinic.
And we've been lucky enough toget into other things right
(33:27):
Shelter, building, groomingfacilities, right.
So you know all those thingscome together and give you, you
know, a great amount ofexperience to draw from to help
everybody else in their ownindividual process.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So good example is a local.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I was just going to say just because I kind of got
off your question there a littlebit.
But yeah, I mean again, I thinkit all just goes back to just
trusting experience and goingthrough that process with an
open mind, you know as to likethe way that it was doesn't have
to be the way that it is.
And then to let you know youmentioned it right Like smart
people who run a business, youknow they don't want to be the
smartest person in the room.
(33:57):
They want to work with otherpeople that they feel like can
be smarter than them at least inone aspect of the business, so
that they can make the wholegroup better, right?
So that's why you should getyourself around people who have
experience within this industry,so that you can get that
process moving forward in theright direction.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
It's interesting because one thought comes to
mind.
We just had one of our newestclients.
They did a design build projecthere, local to our area in
Minnesota.
In the initial part of thedesign process they wanted to
our area in Minnesota.
In the initial part of thedesign process they wanted to do
grooming and boarding and theythought, oh yeah, we'll do
grooming and boarding.
And when they looked at thecost and the footprint of the
lot, it was a ground up build,new construction and a new
(34:36):
business development here inMinnesota.
And when they looked at thereturn on investment for adding
grooming and boarding like itwas going to take them 10 years
to make the money back on theextra square footage and design
build and everything else to addthat in it's just like well,
we're veterinarians, we weregoing to hire out the grooming
(34:58):
anyway, so it wasn't even goingto be us.
So this like additional servicereally wasn't going to add any
actual value to us asveterinarians.
It was just an additional youknow, quote, unquote service,
because that's the way everyveterinarian used to do.
It, used to be able to getgrooming and boarding.
But now you know all the doggydaycare and everything else has
popped up and taken a lot ofthat out of the practice into
its own thing, where you know Ithink you have a lot fewer
(35:21):
veterinarians designing that in.
But they just they looked atthe cost and said there's no way
we can do this.
So they actually cut almost2000 square feet off their
practice because they justweren't going to do it.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
It makes a hundred percent sense, right?
Like again, like it's likefacts versus perception, right.
It can be different right Likewell, you know, I think this
person you know produces thisright Just because I talk to
them more.
Right, when in fact, in reality, like, the data may say
something separately right.
Like you know, grooming makesmoney.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
And I'm not saying it doesn't right, we're saying
grooming makes money.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
handling makes money, like okay, but have you
actually evaluated that, youknow, based on so again, that's
another piece of the puzzle Likethere's financial folks out
there that can be really helpfulin evaluating, especially if
you already have a business andmaybe you're moving to a larger
facility, opening anotherfacility, whatever it is right,
like to really evaluate whereyour revenue is coming from so
(36:11):
that you can use thatinformation to help make design
choices on your next facility.
Right, like, oh my God, Ididn't realize that dentistry is
actually second on the list inwhat I'm in.
I should definitely focus onthat so again not having to get
into every single scenario, butit's a great point, right To
look at those things you know,because you know what has been
or what.
Your perception of things maynot be reality.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, I also think it's demographics really, of
where you're building right,like this is a Twin Cities metro
practice and there's doggydaycares and grooming everywhere
.
And that's where, again,working with smarter people in
the room, where you've got abanker who says, well, yeah, but
there's no grooming within 20miles of your practice because
you're in rural Illinois, let'ssay you're down in Centralia
(36:51):
Illinois and there's no groomersdown there.
Well, yeah, maybe add groomingbecause you're the only groomer
in town, exactly Coin and phrase.
And then working with a designbuild team to say, hey, if we
add grooming, what does thatlook like?
And let's say, grooming bombs,how do we convert that to
another surgery down the road?
(37:12):
I could Well, I mean, I do theinsurance on them.
So I see enough and tour enoughof them that you know.
You see what.
And the only reason I say thatis I tour a lot of practices
that I work with that have dogfood piled up where kennels used
to be and they used to dokenneling and just like you're
just paying for square footagethat's not being used and they
(37:33):
want to do something with thatspace.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I mean you just I'm sure you've seen it over and
over yeah, kennels cages youknow, especially if they build
like the three to four storystainless steel cage banks like,
becomes storage real quick,right On top of stuff.
Right, and you know, sometimeswe'll design to eliminate that
opportunity, right, just sothings don't get cluttered,
because if there's a spot to laysomething, technicians tend to
(37:54):
do that right, I'll stick thiscat litter up here or whatever,
and it just, you know, goeswhere no one's going to reach it
again.
So, yeah, it's a great point,you know, and looking at that
and again, designing, even ifthe things aren't necessarily
clear, designing in a way thatgives you some options going
forward, you know, is a greatidea.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, so my new office space.
I'm actually putting a podcaststudio in, but the podcast
studio is a normal office andit's an interior room with no
exterior walls.
But, as say, I stopped doing apodcast, that's another office
and so you know, having theability to convert the space and
again working with somebody whounderstands the industry
(38:30):
overall.
If there was, besides whatyou've already covered on as we
start to wrap this up, ryan,besides what you've covered on
about starting early, workingwith a good team, and maybe you
know, you know, having someideas about what you want the
practice to be long-term andwhat your passions are, you know
again, I think, what is the oneyou know.
If you had one piece of adviceto the veterinarian that you
(38:52):
want to leave them with ifthey're walking away from your
booth space, your brand newdeveloped booth space that looks
gorgeous as a design build firm, what would that be?
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I feel like I've given you like that.
You know you've taken away mybest answers already, but it's.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, give me your worst answer.
What's the worst answer?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's.
I think it's just to be an openmind, to be honest, right, like
, just you know, be the personwho wants to work with people,
like, don't have your preset inthere block you from other ideas
, right?
I think that's the worst thingthat can happen for somebody is
people come in with differentideas of what success looks like
.
You know what a clinic can be,how it operates.
(39:30):
So, again, I think it's justgoing back to getting into the
right people and don't, you know, don't just meet with one
person, right.
Meet with multiple people.
Figure out you know who youwhether it's process a personal
connection, whatever it may beright, like, understand what
their history is, what theirpast is, what they're all about,
and just put good people aroundyou to help make a good
(39:50):
decision, right.
And then you know, going to,you know what makes a veterinary
clinic great these days.
Going back to that process offocusing on again your wants,
your needs.
Going back to that process offocusing on again your wants,
your needs.
Talk with people, experiencewho can maximize you know the
success, right?
Success looks different fordifferent people, whether it's
money, practicing best possiblecare, those two things should
(40:14):
marry each other, right?
I learned that a long time agoAgain, mid-mark right Better
medicine, better care.
If you're doing things theright way, success follows right
.
Like if you're doing thingsmedically and operating properly
and getting people around youto give you the right advice,
you're going to be successful.
So just take that in, use thatto your advantage.
Advice is free mostly.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Absolutely, I think.
And so, to add to what you justsaid, invest in going to a
large national conference VMX,western Vet because a lot of the
major players are thereyourself and a lot of the other
design build firms, architects,instead of.
You know, I'm the supportingmember chair for the local MVMA
(40:56):
and we have these memberslocally.
Nothing against the local ones.
And you know, go see what thenational guys are doing, like
you, and maybe you wind up goingback to say, yeah, I want
somebody who's actually in mylocal state association versus
RWE, or you know, name anotherone who's national.
But again, go have thoseconversations, make an
investment, and you know, you goto the large national
(41:19):
convention and the big playersare there and then you can
compare and contrast that to thelocal player who's.
Because I'm sure you see this,just about every state
convention or state associationhas one architect, one or two
design build people, a couplearchitects who are doing the
stuff at a local marketMinnesota or Chicago I'm sure
(41:39):
RWE has some local competitionin Chicago who aren't at the
national shows.
But if you're a veterinarianwho's going to make a huge
investment financially andpersonally, just emotionally, in
building a practice, going totalk to these people at a
national level, and a locallevel is probably a really good
idea.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
There's so many shows now right, you know there's so
many shows, whether it'sspecific to a certain side of
the industry or just kind of ingeneral, there's so many of,
whether it's specific to acertain side of the industry or
just kind of a general.
There's so many of them to beable to take advantage of.
But I would agree, like youknow, to get the best bang for
your buck.
It actually is these bignational shows where you know
that everybody's going to bethere and you know, playing off
what you just said, like in noway am I saying that, like, the
(42:16):
local person is going to beworse for you, right?
Like I'm saying that there'sbeen plenty of times where I've
advised people to you know to gothat route right, or to look
into that.
What I'm saying is that, like,if you're doing that route, I
would still find somebody whohas experience.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Absolutely yeah, because probably one thing more
than anything else is I'mlearning the timing of a
construction project is criticaland if you've got somebody who
hasn't built a veterinarypractice before, that timeline
can probably balloon out ofcontrol because they just don't
have the, as you've saidmultiple times, the experience
to say.
The scheduling of what happenswhen and how it all works is
(42:56):
super critical with when youthink you're going to open the
practice.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
That's a good point, right, and probably the point I
maybe should have made when youasked me the question about your
parting advice.
Right?
Like is that you know cost onan invoice or a proposal isn't
necessarily cost, right?
Like, so somebody could giveyou a construction contract,
right, whether we already talkedabout, like you know, more
expensive versus using differentmaterials.
Like you know how that wholeprocess works.
(43:21):
But you know, cost savings on aproposal doesn't necessarily
mean cost savings on a project,right?
Just because if somebody canget you in a facility faster,
what is that worth it to you?
Right?
They don't have to make certainmistakes or learn how to
install this or learn how to dothat, right?
So even though that cost sheetis maybe a little bit less
initially, if they take two orthree extra months to do it,
(43:43):
what does that cost you?
Right?
So there's different ways ofallocating it, right?
So again, it all goes back tojust making sure you're talking
to different people,understanding the entire scope
cost, time, product.
What am I getting?
All those things play into thecost of an overall project
versus just numbers on a pagethat you're saying, right?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
It's interesting walking around the big shows in
that all of you I'm putting youin a category design build,
architect you all buildbeautiful veterinary practices.
You don't put the ugly ones inyour advertising.
So I think you know thetakeaway for veterinarians is
probably, as Ryan has alluded,to shop the market, talk to
(44:26):
someone who can help you out.
But really experience mattersand there's lots of experience
in the industry.
Ryan Whitley at RWE DesignBuild can offer you that
experience, along with a host ofothers.
But, ryan, if a veterinarianwas out there and wanted to
engage with RWE, how would theyfind you?
Or how would they find RWEDesign Build?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yeah, rwedesignbuildcom is a great
place to start.
Right, look at some pictures.
You can see our process.
You can see some headshots ofthe folks that work for us.
So, yeah, go there.
That's a great place.
You can connect with me there.
You can find us on LinkedIn.
We try to be as many shows aspossible, but the website's a
great place to start.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Perfect, and it's a brand new beautiful website as
well.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Thank you, yeah, we like it Well.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
thanks so much for joining us, ryan.
We really appreciated your timeand insight today on the
Veterinary Blueprints podcast.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Thank you, sir, Great to be with you Bill.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Awesome, as always.
Remember to like, share andreview the podcast.
It helps us get the message outthere and share it with your
veterinary friends.
Make sure to tune into the nextepisode of the Veterinary
Blueprints podcast, where webring business ideas to animal
health.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast
brought to you by Butler VetInsurance.
Hosted by Bill Butler, theVeterinary Blueprint Podcast is
for veterinarians and practicemanagers who are looking to
learn about working on theirpractice instead of in their
practice.
Each episode we will bring yousuccessful, proven blueprints
from others, both inside andoutside the veterinary industry.
(00:21):
Welcome to today's episode.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to another exciting episode of the
Veterinary Blueprints Podcast,where animal health meets
entrepreneurship and businessideas.
I am your host, bill Butler,and today we have a very special
guest joining us, ryan Whitley,vice President of Business
Development at RWE Design Build.
Ryan's going to bring over 14years of experience in animal
(00:46):
health industry, with a deepunderstanding of how to improve
the point of care experience forboth patients and caregivers.
At RWE Design Build, he's beeninstrumental in creating
innovative solutions forveterinary practices, ensuring
they have the best facilities todeliver exceptional care.
In today's episode, we'll diveinto Ryan's journey from his
(01:06):
extensive tenure at Midmark tohis current role at RWE Design
Build.
We'll explore the uniquechallenges and opportunities in
designing and buildingstate-of-the-art veterinary
facilities and how theseinnovations are shaping the
future of animal health care.
So stay tuned as we uncoverRyan's insights on emerging
business acumen with passion foranimal health and how practice
(01:28):
design can drive progress in theveterinary field.
This is a episode you don'twant to miss, so welcome Ryan.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Thank you, sir.
That was an inspirationalintroduction and I hope I can
live up to it.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, we'll find out, that's right.
So welcome Ryan.
You and I met at VMX up to it.
Well, we'll find out, that'sright.
So welcome Ryan.
You and I met at VMX this yeardown in Orlando, correct?
Kind of that last day, lasthour kind of thing during VMX.
Right, that's correct.
So first, why don't you tell usa little bit about who Ryan is,
how you're involved in animalhealth and what you're currently
(02:02):
doing at RWE Design Build?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Sure, started out 15 years ago or so, was lucky
enough to get introduced to somefolks at Midmark who at that
time were not a huge name inanimal health Huge on the human
medical side, developing on thehuman dental side Probably like
one of the luckiest things thatever happened to me.
(02:24):
They're an amazing company,great partner for anybody in the
industry.
They're a very unique companyfrom a manufacturing perspective
just because of the breadth ofproducts that they make.
But I grew up with them soalways wanted to be a part of
the animal health community.
Grew up as one of those kidswho brought everything home with
them you know, wanted every dogthey saw.
(02:45):
Thought I was going to be aveterinarian.
Figured out pretty quickly thatI was bad at chemistry and
science and just payingattention in general for some
things.
So figured I would try adifferent path and you know, did
the only thing I kind of knewgrowing up in a clinic.
I worked at a vet clinic forfive years doing all the things
that you know young kids do whenthey grow up trying to be a
(03:06):
technician, cleaning kennels,all that good stuff.
So got some real, good, reallife experience doing that and
then just kind of parlayed thatover to trying to get into jobs
with, like you know, marielleFrontline, like anything that.
I saw coming to the door, likeyou know that looks great.
You're walking into clinics allthe time and that path never
really materialized for me.
(03:30):
But I did run into Midmark, whowas gracious enough to give me a
chance and started a careerwith them up in Chicago being
their animal health rep and justloved it.
Just loved the industry, thepeople that you get to work with
, whether it's distribution,financial partners, real estate
partners, but more importantly,just veterinarians and their
staff, like I think the thing Ilove most about this industry
once you get into it you findthat people don't leave.
(03:52):
They may change companies butthey don't leave.
It's just that it's a big,small community and you kind of
take care of each other andyou're focused on your industry
and the health of the industry.
And I don't know anybody thatreally gets into animal health
with the first thought of likeI'm going to make some money.
It's always everybody has thesame kind of initial, you know,
goal, which is, you know, loveof animals, wanting to better
(04:14):
the industry.
So you know that's always kindof what's kept my interest in
wanting to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So how did you transition from Midmark to RWE
Design Build and what did thatlook like for you in you know
saying, okay, I've got my feetunderneath me in the industry
with Midmark and the opportunityat RWE, and now that you're
there, you know, working inChicago for Midmark, that's
where RWE's, that's where ourhome base is right.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So that's where it all started 25 years ago.
The guy named Bob the Build thebuilder, who hooked up with
some local Chicago veterinariansand just trying to figure out
how do we, how do we make betterclinics right?
You know both medicine wise andmore profitable.
And that just grew into youknow this, this awesome, you
know situation where not onlywere was Bob working with these
(05:05):
local vets, but all of a suddenword spread and RWE just became
the name for building veterinaryclinics in Chicago.
So, obviously, working for acompany that builds equipment
for veterinary clinics, it justmade sense for me to partner
with these guys.
You know, years over years, aguy named Jason Sanderson, who
is the son-in-law of Bob, whostarted the company, eventually
(05:27):
took over and bought the company.
Him and I just had a reallygreat relationship.
If you ever meet Jason, you'llunderstand very quickly why he's
successful.
He's a straightforward guy.
He's usually the smartest guyin the room.
He just knows what it takes tobuild efficiently and build well
, but he also cares right.
Like you know, I was withMidmark for 15 years.
(05:48):
I've already said like howgreat they are right.
So it took a lot for me toleave Midmark and I wouldn't
have done it for a lot ofsituations.
And I did it for them because Ibelieve in what RWE has already
done, how they do business andyou know our ability to help the
industry.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So you know.
It's interesting that youmentioned that because you know,
for me in the insurance worldit's a little similar, right
Like I didn't know that Ispecifically said I wanted to be
a veterinarian.
But just like in sixth grade Iwrote a paper about
veterinarians and why the vetindustry is important to society
(06:28):
and like the end of the paperit's actually on the shelf
behind me For those of youtuning in on a clip.
I basically said, like withoutveterinarians people would get
rabies and die and all the cowswould die, and like we wouldn't
have any food to eat.
Like that's basically thesummation of my sixth grade
paper that I got an A in.
But I think the common threadthat you really touched on, ryan
(06:50):
, is like veterinarians andpeople who work in the vet
industry overall are just reallygood people.
I've had the opportunity todabble in other industries or
work with other industries as aninsurance professional and I
can't say the same that I reallyenjoy spending time with my
clients and the other people.
Like you know you go to VMX oryou go to Western vet or you
(07:12):
know you go to the local stuffand just overall they're like
really good people in theindustry.
Veterinarians care thedifferent vendors care the like.
Everyone just kind of generallycares because it's easy to care
, because who doesn't love dogsand cats?
And you get the companion sidebut the mixed and large animal
side, and so it's just easy tocare, right A hundred percent
(07:34):
right.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I think it's been proven over and over again.
Just things that I've saidbefore in regards to people
don't leave our industry, andthere's a reason right.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It's nothing against everybody else.
I mean like I say in business.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Not everybody's a great fit for everybody.
That doesn't mean you're notgood at your job.
It doesn't mean your industry'snot great.
It's just certain people, Ithink, interact well with others
better, and that's a piece ofthe puzzle.
And there's just good people inanimal health.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, it's like I'm a huge hockey fan.
It's like the NHL player of theof the business world.
Like you know, nhl players aredown to earth, they drive pickup
trucks, they might make a tonof money but, like you, just
never know that they don't havea lot of the.
The majority of them just don'thave that kind of flash, and I
think that's that's true in theanimal health world, where you
(08:21):
just they're, you know the, thebusiness owners world, where you
just they're, you know the, thebusiness owners, the practice
owners and the associates arejust you know they're down to
earth.
So we met the last day of VMXdown in down in Orlando.
I'm cruising the floor and theexpo hall and I I stopped by
your booth.
Actually, I was just walking byyour booth and it said number
(08:41):
one I forget exactly what itsays Number one design build for
veterinarians.
I walked by and I actually cameback.
I kind of did that, you know,screeching, halt, walk back.
And I said why are you guysnumber one?
And you had a very good answerfor me and I'm interested to
share that with our listenerstoday what that is.
Why does RWE think?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
they're number one.
I mean to paint that pictureright.
It was kind of like thatcartoon stop right.
Like you walked by and then,like you, process the
information, and then youscooted back and was like wait a
minute, what?
Makes you number one Right.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, there's like seven other design build dudes
here, what makes you number one?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And I said, well, prove me not, right.
Like, what makes me not numberone, prove me wrong, right.
So yeah, it's funny, right.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It was just funny how we met.
It was the interaction,especially at the last day of
the thing, because you've beenthere talking to a lot of people
so you know I've done that too.
You get a little punchy.
So it was a fun, funinteraction.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
All in good fun, right, and there's some
underground humor as to, likeyou know, you can make
statistics say anything, right?
You know what are this, whatare that?
Like you know, what I wasreferring to is is this right?
But yeah, we don't have to gettoo much into it.
You know we got a new booth.
That part, that phrase, wasn'ton the new booth.
Not because of our interaction,not because of our interaction.
(09:58):
But yeah, I mean ultimately.
Yeah, it's just a funny way,it's a good story of how we met.
I still believe we're numberone just because we didn't put
it on there.
I still firmly believe in thefact.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So my booth, I've got a pop-up banner that says we
wrote the book on veterinaryinsurance.
And then, like a veterinarianwalks by and I'm like, well,
here, you want a copy of my book.
And like, oh, you really didactually write the book on
veterinary insurance.
Like, yeah, you know it's the.
You gotta have fun witheverything.
So well, let me ask you aquestion a different way than
Ryan.
What sets RWE apart and why?
(10:31):
You know that that number onething, but just generally,
overall.
You know you've been doing this, as you mentioned, rwe
specifically has been doing thisfor 25 years, so a lot of
experience in the space.
So you know there's a lot ofarchitect, design build firms
out there.
I mean, you know name a company, there's some big players in
the market, but then you knowthere's architects, there's
(10:51):
local builders, there's.
You know what does RWE bring tothe table and why don't you
talk about some of that processof designing and building a
veterinary practice?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, I'm happy to talk about our process and
probably just process in general, right, and what I you know,
what I would focus on more thanlike what separates RWE, you
know, and us specifically in theworld or in the industry is
more about like people who likeus, who are focused, whether
that is an architectural designfirm, whether that is other like
design build firms or even justmaybe a builder who doesn't
(11:21):
have a design piece, right, likeI would tell you, the biggest
thing is that experience mattersin anything, right, and that's
a very relatable statement.
I feel like, no matter what youdo, no matter what you do in
life right, if you go tosomebody or you're trying
something for the first timeright, it's not that you can't
do it, it's that you can do it,probably if you have enough time
(11:42):
and the ability to makemistakes and learn and all that
other stuff right.
But if you had one shot to dosomething, would you want
somebody in that part of theirgrowth process or would you want
somebody doing it that's beendoing it for 10 years, right,
and can do it very easily?
You gain the advantage of thatperson already failing right and
(12:04):
succeeding A number of times,yeah, a number of times, right,
and?
succeeding A number of times,yeah, a number of times, right,
nobody's perfect.
Everybody grows, everybodylearns, right.
So you know there's just a bigadvantage into working with
somebody who has experience andfocus under their belt Because,
like I said, you gain theadvantage of all their past
failures and experiences, right,you get to ask those questions
(12:24):
or they get to tell you aboutthe things that maybe you didn't
even think of.
So all of that comes with it,right.
So you know there's processinvolved in that and anybody who
anybody can build somethingright, just like any architect
can draw drawings right.
But you know, when theexperience comes in, it lends to
certain advantages, experiencelevels, choices.
(12:45):
You know things that youprobably don't learn to
appreciate until after the fact.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, it's like you know, I got the opportunity
upcoming episode I recorded at aveterinary practice down in
Murfreesboro, tennessee, andthey had built a beautiful new
practice.
Well, they have eight of theirexam rooms.
You can actually do the examoutside and they've got a little
corral in the exterior.
You walk through, there's agate, you can sit on a park
(13:13):
bench outside.
There's a doorway to eachindividual exam room and the
tech can come in.
They do all the work in theroom.
So if they do a blood draw,they do the blood draw in the
room.
So you get to see what thattechnician's actually doing.
A lot of glass, a lot of light.
You can actually, you know, theoperating room has a window in
(13:33):
it because it actually theorigin of the practice was a
converted house.
So the first iteration of thatexam room was actually in the
dining room with a bay window.
And so one of the surgeons, oneof the veterinarians, said if
you don't have an outside windowin the new surgery, I'm not
going to come work for you atthe new practice.
So it was like there's so muchglass and so much light, but
(13:55):
like, until you think aboutthose design features when
you're going to build it.
You just you don't have thatexperience and they put a lot of
thought into what they weregoing to do.
And I'm sure you know I'mactually having a space built
out for me because we're movingoffices and I obsessed about,
well, how about this wall andwhere's this wall go?
Because, like you're making,you know I'm just leasing an
(14:15):
office space for seven years,but if you're going to build
your own building, that is avery long-term commitment to
make sure that you havesomething in place.
So, when you're laying out anddesigning a practice, what are
some of the big things thatveterinarians just don't think
about or aren't in theirpractice, in their process?
That that maybe they're comingto the table and they just don't
(14:36):
have.
Have a thought on that theythey should have when they come
to the table to work with aarchitect or builder.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, again, I hate to keep beating the same drum,
but you know, again the wholeexperience matters thing comes
into play.
Right, and because I think ifyou don't work with somebody
who's been through the processbefore, it's very easy to fall
into the like hey, what do you?
want, Right, and then just startcreating what that that person
or that client wants, which I'mnot saying that's wrong.
(15:05):
Obviously it's their baby,Right, You're, you want to
create their dream.
You want to be a part of that.
Help them bring that out.
But I think it's also ourresponsibility to throw out
their options, things that we'veseen right, Things to think
about.
So that's definitely part ofthe process is working through
kind of like hey, like, what doyou do now?
What do you like doing?
Right, what do you focus on?
(15:27):
Right, and start to, like, youknow, make sure that we're
building the design around howthey practice, right, you talked
about a veterinarian who doeseverything inside of a clinic or
inside of an exam room, right,which is part of that process.
Right, If they're doing a lotof stuff in the exam room, okay.
But now we have to design theexam rooms around that process
right, To make it efficient andhow that flows to the rest of
(15:48):
the clinic.
First there's other people whowill practice and say, hey, the
exam room is just in theconsultation area, I don't need
barely anything in there.
Right, that's a place for theclient to have some privacy,
have a conversation, and then wehead back to.
You know the treatment area,procedure areas of the clinic
and we do things back there.
So that's a different design,right?
(16:08):
Different clinicians will focuson different parts of
veterinary medicine.
You know general practicespecialties, but even within
general practices, you've gotthings that people like to focus
on, right.
Who's in there?
Surgeons right.
Do we need a single surgerysuite?
Do we need multiple surgerysuites?
Do we need a larger surgerysuite that allows for two
surgery tables?
Are we focused on dentistry,which, if you're not focused on
(16:30):
dentistry, I would definitely do?
That.
It's a huge part of revenue orit's a huge ROI producer in
veterinary medicine, right.
So we recommend, if applicablein your space, to get a separate
dental suite, right.
And if you're not going to havetwo tables right off the bat,
if you can plan for a secondtable, because it could be a
(16:52):
booming part of your practice ifyou're going to allocate
resources towards learning thator developing it.
If not, also, let's move onNext steps, right.
So we don't have to go throughevery scenario, but that's a big
part of it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned dental, because
I've had a number ofveterinarians that I work with
who've said, oh yeah, I'm goingto start doing dental or we're
expanding our dental practice.
As you mentioned, it is a bigrevenue driver and so you know
there's a lot of opportunitiesto do that.
And if you're not planning forthat on the front end, let's say
you know your practice wasbuilt 25 years ago.
(17:28):
You're a veterinarian who mayhave bought your practice and
now you think, okay, well, now Iwant to add dental, but we
don't have room to do it.
You're converting an exam room.
Or maybe you had you know theone vet that I'm thinking about
they used to do kenneling andboarding, for you know, the
pound or the animal controlwould bring dogs in and they
stopped doing that.
So they just had all this roomwith all these extra kennels.
(17:49):
Like, well, we're going toconvert that to dental.
And so if you have space in thepractice to maybe reallocate
down the road, but you'redesigning that in now with
potential future, maybe it's notin the cards to say, well,
we're not going to do it now,but how do we maybe convert an
exam room?
Let's make one exam room alittle bigger so we can convert
it down the road and workingwith a builder who kind of has
(18:09):
some of that in mind to say,okay, well, let's not have that
as far away from the oxygen aswe possibly can.
We're going to put that oneclose so we can do anesthetics
right.
Yeah, 100% right.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Whether you're trying to renovate an existing
building right which cansomewhat limit, you know your
footprint and how you redesign,you know outside of maybe being
able to do an addition, or ifyou're doing a ground up
facility where you know you canfigure it out right?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, you can create.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, 100% right.
And whether it's focusing onadding more exam rooms, right.
Talking about ROI producersright.
Focus on adding more exam rooms, more treatment space, more
special procedure space, likedentistry, like it's got to be a
consideration right.
And even if it's not on theimmediate roadmap or plan, like
you mentioned, having a plan tomake it efficient and easy to
add in a later date is a bigpart of design, for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So working with a design build firm I mean for the
lay veterinarian out there,let's say you're just an
associate working at a practicebut you someday want to do that
you can work with an architectand you can work with a builder
and you can work with mid-markto outfit everything.
What does a design?
You know you can work with anarchitect and you can work with
a builder and you can work withyou know, mid-mark to outfit
everything.
What does a design?
You know what does it.
You know.
You talked about experience.
(19:23):
What does a design build firmdo technically?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, so I would tell you, like it's, it's a one-stop
shop, right.
So you know, there's that point.
There's some continuity in theprocess, right?
So if you have architects anddesigners internally that work
at the same company, as you knowthe build side of it, right,
there's probably someefficiencies and some synergies
there as far as, like, knowingeach other, right, so maybe you
(19:49):
don't have as much back andforth.
Well, that's their fault.
That's this, like you know, notthat no one would put a
negative light on it, but justlike you know.
There's just a one-stop shop,right.
And then there's an efficiency,with them already being very
familiar.
You can find the sameefficiency if you had an
architect and a builder thatalways work together, right,
even though there's severalentities.
But I'm just saying you knowthat these two parties know each
(20:09):
other and they're used toworking with each other.
This builder knows how to readthis architect's plans.
You're going to have a nice,successful build because you
have that history, thatcontinuity around it.
I would say the other one wouldbe like designing with a budget
in mind or from a builder'sperspective.
Right, because a builder willlook at plans much differently
(20:31):
than an architect will, and I'mnot saying one is right or one
is wrong.
But you know somebody who'spurely focused on design, you
know, could pick really goodthings for every single aspect
of it, but those really goodthings may not necessarily align
with that person's budget.
So somebody who's on both sidescan probably give a really good
(20:52):
snapshot or picture of likegoing through the design process
, maybe directing them orpresenting some scenarios where,
like, if you do that, then thisright Like here's an
alternative I might suggest thatwe have found over the last 25
years has given you a similarresult or look, but also
provides great durability and isgoing to last you a long time,
(21:15):
right?
So, again, drawing back fromthat experience piece is just
like going through that andknowing, kind of, what things
cost, what has lasted inveterinary clinics, because
that's the other stuff.
Like people who work inhealthcare right, whether they
build medical facilities, dentalfacilities or animal care
facilities right Like we're.
(21:36):
I feel like we're we're themost unique, right Like,
generally speaking and I used tosay this all the time selling,
you know, midmark cabinets, andI truly believe they're the best
option Midmark face work,synthesis shameless plug for
those guys.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I'm sure they appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You know our patients walk in and potentially are
going to pee on the cabinets,right?
You don't really have that asmuch in a lot of other
healthcare situations.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Or the lobby.
I mean, I can't tell you thenumber of practices that I go
into and I'm like, why do youhave seven candles burning and
it still smells like pee in here?
Oh, you have LPV flooring withseams and, no matter if you like
, it's not a solid surface, itgets into the flooring no matter
what you do, because it'snothing against any of the
(22:18):
practices that I work withcurrently that have LPV flooring
where there are seams in there.
But you just think if that wasceramic tile, you may not have
the same issue in the lobbywhere you have all this
happening.
And man, my parents had a blacklab.
No matter how far my parentswalked him before, he took a
huge number two right in thelobby every time, no matter what
(22:41):
they did.
And so I'm sure that experiencethat you have to say might not
want to go with this flooringoption in the lobby just based
on what you want to do, rightyeah?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And it's about giving them choices that are it
doesn't have to be moreexpensive, necessarily right, it
might just be a differentchoice that they don't know.
Or, if somebody hasn't hadexperience with that, like, oh,
laminate's laminate, right,laminate is waterproof but, like
you mentioned, right, some isseamless, some are not right,
and in our instance, you knowthat matters.
Right, it's not just anaesthetic thing.
(23:12):
We want to blend bothdurability you know anesthetics
and you know anesthetics.
And you know that goes back toanother kind of thing that we're
talking about.
Right Like when looking at GCsand experience levels right Like
it's, you know.
I think sometimes people lookat our website, which we're very
proud of brand new also,shameless plug.
It goes over some projects andsome really great stuff that we
put together.
(23:32):
It also wouldn't be on thewebsite, but I think some people
can look at that andimmediately think like, oh,
these guys must be reallyexpensive.
But it's not that we're moreexpensive, right?
It's that, again, we've beendoing this for a long time.
We know what works and wedesign to a certain spec right.
It doesn't mean that we arecharging more for our services.
(23:53):
It means that the materialsthat we use as kind of our base
process are ones that we knoware proven right, that are going
to give you the best productwhen it's all said and done, and
you're going to be happy.
Now can we design down fromthat, if needed be?
Of course we can.
Can you design up from that?
Obviously, we can do that too,if you've got the money to do it
.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
But how much?
Yeah, how much bank?
How much does the bank lend you?
You know, where do you want it.
Where do you want the money togo?
Do you want it to go intofinishes or functionality?
I think there's probably two.
You know two differentcomponents to to any sort of um.
You know, build out, whetherit's a ground up or or
renovation.
Where do you want the money togo?
And it doesn't mean that youcan't upgrade down the road,
right?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
And what you might do in different what we call front
of the house or back of thehouse.
Right, like front of the houseclient facing areas, right, you
might make different choicesthere than what you make in the
back, right as far as like youraesthetic choices.
And again it's all about justkind of knowing what works, what
doesn't work, that person'sstyle and giving them the best.
But you know it's.
You know when you're talkingabout like general questions
(24:54):
that you get right away.
How much does it cost per squarefoot?
How much does this project cost?
And it's a trick question,right?
Because-.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I get the same trick.
Question Ryan on insurance.
Like, well, how much is theinsurance going to cost?
I'm like, well, I don't know, Ihave no idea.
What do you want to do?
How much insurance do you wantto buy?
It can be as little insuranceand just what the bank requires
and you run around with hardlyany coverage.
Or do you want to build the TajMahal and have you know marble
in the employee bathroom?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I mean you can do A to B, a to Z right, yeah, 100%
right.
And that's just, like you know,again one of those early
questions.
Like it comes out a lot likehow much does it cost, right,
and you try to give generalnumbers.
But you have to be careful whenasking somebody that because
everybody has a different styleof how they deliver those
numbers right.
I always compare it to aresidential setting.
In my own experience I'veobviously just moved into a
(25:39):
house here.
I've got stuff.
Everywhere you go past a signthat says houses from the 600s
or 400s, whatever it is right,so you're thinking, oh, $400,000
house, that sounds reasonable,whatever it is right.
And then you get in the door andit's like well, you got to buy
the lot and you got to buy yourdoors, and you got to go to the
design studio and all of asudden, 400 is 800.
Real quick, Right.
And again everybody has theirown.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh, you wanted to finish basement with your house.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You know.
So you know everybody's gottheir own process.
You know, when we give outthose numbers, initially what we
try to do is we try to givethem, try to give them the
numbers where we end up, right,like generally speaking, and you
can design up and down.
But here are some numbers thatwe give out, meaning that, like
you know, if everything goes peraverage, that this is generally
where you'll end up on a costper square footage If you do it
(26:30):
to the spec that we recommend.
And again, we can play up anddown from that.
But you know, you know there'slike in any business, right,
like if you're trying to getsomebody in the door.
There's like in any business,right, like if you're trying to
get somebody in the door.
There's also a different theory, right, where you give them a
much lower and they say why areyou a hundred dollars more per
square foot?
It's like we're not moreexpensive.
We're talking about twodifferent things, right, we're
talking about differentmaterials.
You know something's differentbecause we're not just a hundred
(26:50):
dollars more per square foot.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And, and so you know, when you engage a veterinarian
who's interested in doing aproject, where does that
generally lie?
You know, have they met with abank?
Have they talked to a lender?
Have they, you know, have theyfound a lot or a location that
they want to 3,000 square feetin a strip mall that they want
to redo?
I mean, where do you generallyget engaged in the?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
process.
We love to get engaged as earlyas possible, you know, just
because I feel like, againdrawing from that experience, we
have people in-house that havebeen doing this for a long time
and I think, even withoutcharging anything, we can be a
good resource for folks inhelping them look at a space,
look at a piece of land and givethem a little due diligence up
(27:31):
front as to things that maypotentially impact their budget
or their project.
So the earlier we can beinvolved, the better.
But no matter when we getinvolved, we like to do as much,
right, like if things arealready in place.
We're not necessarily going totry to change that, but, you
know, try to add something towherever we get in so that again
, we're trying to help, you know, get this towards a more
(27:52):
positive result.
But the short answer to yourquestion is as early as possible
, but the journey could startanywhere.
Right, it all depends on yourresources, right?
And, generally speaking,distribution is obviously a
great resource for clinicsbecause they're in there all the
time.
They're kind of their eyes andears as to what's going on in
the industry.
So, generally speaking, I feellike sometimes those guys get
(28:15):
their ear pulled first inregards to thought of a new
practice and like, hey, do youknow anybody and you know that
could be commercial real estatepeople that could be banks that
are, uh, you know, focused onveterinary medicine?
Uh, or the animal healthcommunity specifically, which
again, shameless plug you know,uh, bank of America live, oh,
provide, uh, to name a few likethese are folks that have
(28:35):
specific animal health divisionsto their company right, who
have products specificallydesigned for them.
So any one of these people thatI think are focused and have
experience in the industry canbe a good starting point and
then also recommend other peoplethat obviously they feel
comfortable and confident in torecommend to be a part of that
process.
I feel like the more folks thatyou can get around you that
(28:57):
have experience in it, thebetter, and I'm not saying
that's just me, right, Iencourage people.
We were just at a conventionlast week for Animal Care,
shelter, humane Societies, whichwas an amazing show Animal Care
Expo that happened down in SanAntonio and dealing with those
folks, they were like, hey, thatquestion comes up, like where
would you start?
Who should we talk to?
I was like talk to a bunch ofpeople.
(29:18):
Like you know, I would neverstop you Like, say like and try
to guard you from talking toother architects.
Design, build firms Like theseare our peers.
They're not necessarily,they're not our enemies, right?
These are folks that I thinkyou should talk to.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
We can't build every clinic, we can't design every
clinic, so yeah, I can't insureevery vet practice and and so
you know, like you said, it'sfunny because the theme that
keeps coming up in the podcast,just generally overall, whether
it's an attorney, a CPA, abanker, design build is like you
just need a really good teamaround you as a business owner.
(29:51):
So that way, you know, causethey know animal health.
As a veterinarian, you know Ican't do a TPLO surgery.
You know, uh, just even, uh,you know, if I, if my cat Louie,
need to get castrated, I'm notdoing it at home.
I need, I need an expert, andso having that, having that
expert who understands, evenjust from a device perspective
(30:12):
and that's the thing I think isunique about this industry is,
you know, I don't I'm going tospeak for myself personally Like
if a veterinarian says, hey,bill, here's my insurance
policies, will you look at themand do these look good?
Like I'm not going to say, well,you know, I'm $300 an hour to
look at your insurance policy.
Like it's going to take me,because of my experience, 10
(30:32):
minutes to look at them and go,hey, you're missing this, this
and this.
Just call your agent and say,hey, how much does this cost?
To add, and I'm sure you know.
For you it's a little bit ofthe same where, like you said,
the first conversation is free.
Like hey, I'm looking to dothis.
What does that look like?
Like you know whether it's youor another design build firm.
Like you're going to give thatveterinarian 20 minutes, half
(30:53):
hour on the phone to talk itthrough what they want.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Ultimately, whether we're a great fit for them or
somebody else, is that's allgood, right?
My main point to them wouldjust be to like, again, focus on
somebody that has experience isgoing to give them a better
result and ultimately, whetherit's personality process,
whatever it is, if somebody is abetter fit, the connection,
that's all great.
But, like you said in thatfirst 20 minutes, 30 minutes,
whatever it is, I feel like it'sa responsible person is going
(31:19):
to give them kind of like justsome helpful tips and things to
look at when talking to anybodyso that you know they can make
the best choice for them.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
With your time now with RWE?
What are some of the biggestpitfalls or mistakes you've seen
veterinarians make with theirthought process that that you
know they get to the end of theproject and they and you, you
may have wanted to say pleasedon't do that.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And they did or they did and they said, oh, I wish I
hadn't.
Yeah, I mean, maybe not as muchnew school, right, but I would
just tell you, like you know,there are no standards in animal
health building right now.
Right, there's aha, you knowthere's fear free, like there's
certain you know, associationsthat you can get accredited from
and things like that.
But, like in the human medicalcommunity, right, you have to
(32:00):
adhere to certain standards,right, and currently for us that
doesn't exist.
Right, and I feel likesometimes there's this
methodology of like minimalismor cost effectiveness, where you
know this is the way we'vealways done it.
It's fine, right, like thatdoesn't mean like how we did
things 30, 40 years ago.
You know that your previousclinic was designed in like we
(32:23):
wouldn't design it that way.
Just because it's okay and itworks doesn't mean it's best.
And if you have the ability todo it better, like, why wouldn't
you?
Right?
So, again, it goes back tosurrounding yourself with people
, a team, that have experiencethat you know can help guide you
, and keeping an open mind.
Right, like you know,understanding cost versus value
and going through the process ofreally kind of opening the
(32:45):
doors as to, you know, what amodern day veterinary clinic can
be what makes it successful andhow does the way that I operate
, or want to operate, how canthose things come together to
give me the best possible?
Because there's, you know.
If it was the one solution forall, it would be easy.
But that's the hard part, right.
Everybody does things a littlebit differently.
(33:05):
Everybody has differentspecialties, you know, wants,
focuses.
So you know it's again goingback to the diversity.
Like you know, we've builteverything from small startup
practices to an 80,000 squarefoot ground up specialty clinic.
And we've been lucky enough toget into other things right
(33:27):
Shelter, building, groomingfacilities, right.
So you know all those thingscome together and give you, you
know, a great amount ofexperience to draw from to help
everybody else in their ownindividual process.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So good example is a local.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I was just going to say just because I kind of got
off your question there a littlebit.
But yeah, I mean again, I thinkit all just goes back to just
trusting experience and goingthrough that process with an
open mind, you know as to likethe way that it was doesn't have
to be the way that it is.
And then to let you know youmentioned it right Like smart
people who run a business, youknow they don't want to be the
smartest person in the room.
(33:57):
They want to work with otherpeople that they feel like can
be smarter than them at least inone aspect of the business, so
that they can make the wholegroup better, right?
So that's why you should getyourself around people who have
experience within this industry,so that you can get that
process moving forward in theright direction.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
It's interesting because one thought comes to
mind.
We just had one of our newestclients.
They did a design build projecthere, local to our area in
Minnesota.
In the initial part of thedesign process they wanted to
our area in Minnesota.
In the initial part of thedesign process they wanted to do
grooming and boarding and theythought, oh yeah, we'll do
grooming and boarding.
And when they looked at thecost and the footprint of the
lot, it was a ground up build,new construction and a new
(34:36):
business development here inMinnesota.
And when they looked at thereturn on investment for adding
grooming and boarding like itwas going to take them 10 years
to make the money back on theextra square footage and design
build and everything else to addthat in it's just like well,
we're veterinarians, we weregoing to hire out the grooming
(34:58):
anyway, so it wasn't even goingto be us.
So this like additional servicereally wasn't going to add any
actual value to us asveterinarians.
It was just an additional youknow, quote, unquote service,
because that's the way everyveterinarian used to do.
It, used to be able to getgrooming and boarding.
But now you know all the doggydaycare and everything else has
popped up and taken a lot ofthat out of the practice into
its own thing, where you know Ithink you have a lot fewer
(35:21):
veterinarians designing that in.
But they just they looked atthe cost and said there's no way
we can do this.
So they actually cut almost2000 square feet off their
practice because they justweren't going to do it.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
It makes a hundred percent sense, right?
Like again, like it's likefacts versus perception, right.
It can be different right Likewell, you know, I think this
person you know produces thisright Just because I talk to
them more.
Right, when in fact, in reality, like, the data may say
something separately right.
Like you know, grooming makesmoney.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
And I'm not saying it doesn't right, we're saying
grooming makes money.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
handling makes money, like okay, but have you
actually evaluated that, youknow, based on so again, that's
another piece of the puzzle Likethere's financial folks out
there that can be really helpfulin evaluating, especially if
you already have a business andmaybe you're moving to a larger
facility, opening anotherfacility, whatever it is right,
like to really evaluate whereyour revenue is coming from so
(36:11):
that you can use thatinformation to help make design
choices on your next facility.
Right, like, oh my God, Ididn't realize that dentistry is
actually second on the list inwhat I'm in.
I should definitely focus onthat so again not having to get
into every single scenario, butit's a great point, right To
look at those things you know,because you know what has been
or what.
Your perception of things maynot be reality.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, I also think it's demographics really, of
where you're building right,like this is a Twin Cities metro
practice and there's doggydaycares and grooming everywhere
.
And that's where, again,working with smarter people in
the room, where you've got abanker who says, well, yeah, but
there's no grooming within 20miles of your practice because
you're in rural Illinois, let'ssay you're down in Centralia
(36:51):
Illinois and there's no groomersdown there.
Well, yeah, maybe add groomingbecause you're the only groomer
in town, exactly Coin and phrase.
And then working with a designbuild team to say, hey, if we
add grooming, what does thatlook like?
And let's say, grooming bombs,how do we convert that to
another surgery down the road?
(37:12):
I could Well, I mean, I do theinsurance on them.
So I see enough and tour enoughof them that you know.
You see what.
And the only reason I say thatis I tour a lot of practices
that I work with that have dogfood piled up where kennels used
to be and they used to dokenneling and just like you're
just paying for square footagethat's not being used and they
(37:33):
want to do something with thatspace.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I mean you just I'm sure you've seen it over and
over yeah, kennels cages youknow, especially if they build
like the three to four storystainless steel cage banks like,
becomes storage real quick,right On top of stuff.
Right, and you know, sometimeswe'll design to eliminate that
opportunity, right, just sothings don't get cluttered,
because if there's a spot to laysomething, technicians tend to
(37:54):
do that right, I'll stick thiscat litter up here or whatever,
and it just, you know, goeswhere no one's going to reach it
again.
So, yeah, it's a great point,you know, and looking at that
and again, designing, even ifthe things aren't necessarily
clear, designing in a way thatgives you some options going
forward, you know, is a greatidea.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, so my new office space.
I'm actually putting a podcaststudio in, but the podcast
studio is a normal office andit's an interior room with no
exterior walls.
But, as say, I stopped doing apodcast, that's another office
and so you know, having theability to convert the space and
again working with somebody whounderstands the industry
(38:30):
overall.
If there was, besides whatyou've already covered on as we
start to wrap this up, ryan,besides what you've covered on
about starting early, workingwith a good team, and maybe you
know, you know, having someideas about what you want the
practice to be long-term andwhat your passions are, you know
again, I think, what is the oneyou know.
If you had one piece of adviceto the veterinarian that you
(38:52):
want to leave them with ifthey're walking away from your
booth space, your brand newdeveloped booth space that looks
gorgeous as a design build firm, what would that be?
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I feel like I've given you like that.
You know you've taken away mybest answers already, but it's.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, give me your worst answer.
What's the worst answer?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's.
I think it's just to be an openmind, to be honest, right, like
, just you know, be the personwho wants to work with people,
like, don't have your preset inthere block you from other ideas
, right?
I think that's the worst thingthat can happen for somebody is
people come in with differentideas of what success looks like
.
You know what a clinic can be,how it operates.
(39:30):
So, again, I think it's justgoing back to getting into the
right people and don't, you know, don't just meet with one
person, right.
Meet with multiple people.
Figure out you know who youwhether it's process a personal
connection, whatever it may beright, like, understand what
their history is, what theirpast is, what they're all about,
and just put good people aroundyou to help make a good
(39:50):
decision, right.
And then you know, going to,you know what makes a veterinary
clinic great these days.
Going back to that process offocusing on again your wants,
your needs.
Going back to that process offocusing on again your wants,
your needs.
Talk with people, experiencewho can maximize you know the
success, right?
Success looks different fordifferent people, whether it's
money, practicing best possiblecare, those two things should
(40:14):
marry each other, right?
I learned that a long time agoAgain, mid-mark right Better
medicine, better care.
If you're doing things theright way, success follows right
.
Like if you're doing thingsmedically and operating properly
and getting people around youto give you the right advice,
you're going to be successful.
So just take that in, use thatto your advantage.
Advice is free mostly.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Absolutely, I think.
And so, to add to what you justsaid, invest in going to a
large national conference VMX,western Vet because a lot of the
major players are thereyourself and a lot of the other
design build firms, architects,instead of.
You know, I'm the supportingmember chair for the local MVMA
(40:56):
and we have these memberslocally.
Nothing against the local ones.
And you know, go see what thenational guys are doing, like
you, and maybe you wind up goingback to say, yeah, I want
somebody who's actually in mylocal state association versus
RWE, or you know, name anotherone who's national.
But again, go have thoseconversations, make an
investment, and you know, you goto the large national
(41:19):
convention and the big playersare there and then you can
compare and contrast that to thelocal player who's.
Because I'm sure you see this,just about every state
convention or state associationhas one architect, one or two
design build people, a couplearchitects who are doing the
stuff at a local marketMinnesota or Chicago I'm sure
(41:39):
RWE has some local competitionin Chicago who aren't at the
national shows.
But if you're a veterinarianwho's going to make a huge
investment financially andpersonally, just emotionally, in
building a practice, going totalk to these people at a
national level, and a locallevel is probably a really good
idea.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
There's so many shows now right, you know there's so
many shows, whether it'sspecific to a certain side of
the industry or just kind of ingeneral, there's so many of,
whether it's specific to acertain side of the industry or
just kind of a general.
There's so many of them to beable to take advantage of.
But I would agree, like youknow, to get the best bang for
your buck.
It actually is these bignational shows where you know
that everybody's going to bethere and you know, playing off
what you just said, like in noway am I saying that, like, the
(42:16):
local person is going to beworse for you, right?
Like I'm saying that there'sbeen plenty of times where I've
advised people to you know to gothat route right, or to look
into that.
What I'm saying is that, like,if you're doing that route, I
would still find somebody whohas experience.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Absolutely yeah, because probably one thing more
than anything else is I'mlearning the timing of a
construction project is criticaland if you've got somebody who
hasn't built a veterinarypractice before, that timeline
can probably balloon out ofcontrol because they just don't
have the, as you've saidmultiple times, the experience
to say.
The scheduling of what happenswhen and how it all works is
(42:56):
super critical with when youthink you're going to open the
practice.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
That's a good point, right, and probably the point I
maybe should have made when youasked me the question about your
parting advice.
Right?
Like is that you know cost onan invoice or a proposal isn't
necessarily cost, right?
Like, so somebody could giveyou a construction contract,
right, whether we already talkedabout, like you know, more
expensive versus using differentmaterials.
Like you know how that wholeprocess works.
(43:21):
But you know, cost savings on aproposal doesn't necessarily
mean cost savings on a project,right?
Just because if somebody canget you in a facility faster,
what is that worth it to you?
Right?
They don't have to make certainmistakes or learn how to
install this or learn how to dothat, right?
So even though that cost sheetis maybe a little bit less
initially, if they take two orthree extra months to do it,
(43:43):
what does that cost you?
Right?
So there's different ways ofallocating it, right?
So again, it all goes back tojust making sure you're talking
to different people,understanding the entire scope
cost, time, product.
What am I getting?
All those things play into thecost of an overall project
versus just numbers on a pagethat you're saying, right?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
It's interesting walking around the big shows in
that all of you I'm putting youin a category design build,
architect you all buildbeautiful veterinary practices.
You don't put the ugly ones inyour advertising.
So I think you know thetakeaway for veterinarians is
probably, as Ryan has alluded,to shop the market, talk to
(44:26):
someone who can help you out.
But really experience mattersand there's lots of experience
in the industry.
Ryan Whitley at RWE DesignBuild can offer you that
experience, along with a host ofothers.
But, ryan, if a veterinarianwas out there and wanted to
engage with RWE, how would theyfind you?
Or how would they find RWEDesign Build?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yeah, rwedesignbuildcom is a great
place to start.
Right, look at some pictures.
You can see our process.
You can see some headshots ofthe folks that work for us.
So, yeah, go there.
That's a great place.
You can connect with me there.
You can find us on LinkedIn.
We try to be as many shows aspossible, but the website's a
great place to start.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Perfect, and it's a brand new beautiful website as
well.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Thank you, yeah, we like it Well.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
thanks so much for joining us, ryan.
We really appreciated your timeand insight today on the
Veterinary Blueprints podcast.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Thank you, sir, Great to be with you Bill.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Awesome, as always.
Remember to like, share andreview the podcast.
It helps us get the message outthere and share it with your
veterinary friends.
Make sure to tune into the nextepisode of the Veterinary
Blueprints podcast, where webring business ideas to animal
health.
Thank you.
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