April 14, 2023 • 18 mins
Inaugural Podcast: The ISVMA has been working closely with the State of Illinois regarding appropriate language within the update of the Veterinary Medicine and Surgery Practice Act of 2014.
Joanne Carlson, DVM, ISVMA President, Loving Care Animal Hospital, Palatine, interviews Stephen Dullard, DVM, DABVP, Ancare Veterinary Clinic, Mendota, and Ancare Veterinary Hospital in LaSalle, ISVMA's Legislative Chair and an AVMA Delegate, on specific language updates regarding the Practice Act and where it currently sits in the Illinois Senate.
Drs. Carlson and Dullard also discuss HB1533, which the ISVMA is strongly opposed. HB1533 removes decisions about a cat's well-being from highly trained veterinarians charged with their care. As of podcast release, the bill is in the Illinois Senate awaiting action.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to the inaugural
podcast of veterinary todayproduced by the Illinois State
Veterinary Medical Associationor more commonly known as the is
ISVMA.
Veterinary today will producetwo podcasts per month on
veterinary related topicsbeginning this month April
2023. And members will beinformed by email each time
(00:23):
a new podcast is released.
They will also be availableto access on the is VMAs
website.
Veterinary today has beencreated for veterinary
professionals by veterinaryprofessionals and our goal is to
discuss the latest trends anddevelopments in veterinary
practice and medicine fromindividuals making the news in
the veterinary profession.
(00:44):
This podcast shares informationthat allows veterinary
professionals to better serveclients and their pets and
livestock and manage theirpractices and to establish
a more informed, knowledgeableand engaged clinic staff. The
podcast will also addressproposed legislation in
Springfield that impacts theveterinary profession or animal
welfare so you can tune inregularly to hear how proposed
(01:07):
bills may affect your veterinarypractice here in Illinois.
I'm Kelley McLaughlin, yourpodcast moderator and we're
excited to have you listeningwith us today I'm joined by
Dr. Joanne Carlson owner andoperator of loving care animal
clinic in Palatine, alsopresident of the ISVMA a
board of directors and yourveterinary today podcast
host Hi, Dr.
(01:27):
Carlson and Joey.
It's great to be here and tocollaborate with you.
Thank you so much for havingme. Oh, absolutely.
Looking forward to this.
Joining us today to discuss twolegislative issues currently
being addressed at thecapitol is Dr. Steve Dillard,
owner of an care VeterinaryHospital in Lasalle and an care
Veterinary Clinic in Minnesotaand is VMAs Legislative
Committee chaired Dr.
(01:48):
Dullard welcome.
Well, thank you very muchjoy. I'm glad to be here today.
Doctors we have a couple ofmajor proposals rolling
their way through the IllinoisSenate right now including
revisions of the IllinoisVeterinary Medicine and general
surgery practice act of2014. Also HB 1533, and
amendment to the standing humanecare for animals act that
(02:09):
calls for the banning offeline on key ectomy procedures,
more commonly known as Catdeclaws surgery.
That's right, Joey. So let'sstart by talking about the
practice acts since your ISVMAhas been working with elected
officials and the IllinoisDepartment of Financial and
Professional Regulationregarding the language in that
act. Dr.
(02:30):
Dullard, can you give us somebackground about the practice
act and how long we've beenworking on this important issue,
please?
Well, usually the practicesec, what we do is it gets
revised about every 10 years. Ithink now it's in fact maybe
every five years. And so westarted the process about two
years ago and looking atissues we know that are
confronting us that is going tobe affected by the Practice
(02:52):
Act. And one of the thingsthat we are looking at is, you
know, telemedicine.
And with telemedicine, there's athere's a lot of gray area
in that right now.
There's a lot of talk aboutit on national level about
telemedicine and how are wegoing to be able to protect
the public as far as from, youknow, issues that occur that may
not, you know, be you know,relevant within our state, or
(03:15):
if there's a someone that isgiving medical advice from out
of state, so we have to try andmake sure that we can still
protect the people of Illinois,you know, from those type of
activities.
And so telemedicine is likeone of the things that has
been high on our radar forthe last two years.
Are a lot of veterinarianswanting to utilize telemedicine
is it something that is relevantin Illinois?
(03:37):
Well, I think it's relevant.
I mean, during COVID, some of usactually started using it
in order to be able to performsome like recheck type
appointments, which we thoughtmaybe it might be more relevant
for a conversation, maybe aquick view of the pet. Our big
concern, though, is usingtelemedicine as like the primary
evaluation of a pet.
(03:57):
And we addressed all that in ourveterinary practice.
Um, essentially you haveto have a client patient doctor
relationship at least once ayear with a physical exam. And
in our telemedicine section, itbasically says that if you
believe in your professionalopinion, after you have had
(04:17):
this at least yearly exam, youcan perform telemedicine,
if there is an issue where youbelieve a physical exam is
necessary, then it is is yourresponsibility to make sure that
you do do that examination.
It also helps us includethe use of certified veterinary
technicians in their supervisionand still phase the phase of
(04:38):
their supervision was withinyour hospital.
Right.
And, you know, I know we spendhours and hours within our
board of directors trying todelineate the language and the
parameters.
And we're still, you know,working through that for
the most part. But you know,one of the things I'd like to
talk about is that I recentlyhad a group in my area To start
(05:00):
publicizing they're offering atelehealth program that their
clients this is a boarding andtraining facility.
They're offering a telehealthtelemedicine kind of a package
deal to their clients that wouldessentially allow the client to
call talk to a veterinarianand and have diagnoses, etc. And
(05:21):
one of the things that struck meabout that is, are those
veterinarians in Illinois?
And would this practice actamendment that we're proposing
be applicable to that?
What are your thoughts on that?
Dr.
Dullard?
Well, it is because you, firstof all, there's a difference
between telemedicine andtelehealth.
Telehealth is where you're likegiving advice, but you're
(05:43):
not really making a diagnosis.
You're not prescribingmedicines, you're not doing
surgery, you know, that typeof thing.
Telemedicine is the actuallyyou're being a quote a doctor.
And in our state, the way wewould like to admit the
practice, sec, is that thedoctor providing this
telemedicine is licensedwithin the state, the certified
(06:04):
veterinary techniciansthat might be assist, are
licensed within the state.
Because we do have to have theability to protect the public
here. And that's going to be theonly way that we're gonna be
able to do that as if we keepthis within state, if it goes
out of state, and you have adoctor that's doing some type of
treatment, that is not thestandard of practice, whatever
(06:25):
the way that they getreprimanded, it's out of your
hands are out of your state, youcan't do anything about it.
So that's one of the thingsthat we're making very clear
in our amendment that thisis a has to stay within the
state.
Very important, very important.
Thank you for clarifying that. Ithought that was an interesting
topic that came up.
So all right, let's move on toHouse Bill 1533, which I'm very
(06:48):
familiar, I've been interviewedby multiple media entities
is as well as you have. Andit's a controversial topic. And
the bill was introduced into theIllinois House of
Representatives in January, Iknow that we spent hours and
hours discussing it. It wasintroduced by the 50th District
Representative Barbara Hernandezof Aurora, it basically
(07:10):
calls for an amendment to theHumane care for animals act
calling for the banning offeline Anqi activity or declined
procedures with fines in the1000s of dollars for the first
second and third violation.
You know, I have many people whohave said, Well, why do you
oppose this bill?
Joanne, you know, as theISVMA and when I'm speaking,
(07:31):
it's not Dr.
Carlson, you know, owner oflove and care. It is the,
you know, the ISVMA madepresident, I'm representing
the board and all of the theconstituents in our state. And
really what it does is itremoves the decision about the
cat's well being from theveterinarians and also from the
owners, and it basically ignoresthe fact that there is a human
(07:54):
animal bond. And one of thethings that we strive to
do is to uphold that humananimal bond, to have
conversations with our clientsregarding what is the best
medical and surgical care forthose those cats.
Oftentimes, you know, peoplehave situations that are unique,
life is messy. So it reallyrestricts the veterinarians
(08:16):
ability to uphold their medicaloath, and to provide that sound
medical judgment.
You know, we also feel thatit puts cats at jeopardy
to live in well establishedloving homes. In many instances,
people that cannot havealternative options to you know,
to the decline will giveup their cats. And in my area,
(08:37):
there are no shelters, I willeven take cats right now.
They're just all teemingwith cats.
So it really, you know,puts these cats at risk for
abandonment, euthanasia,or in, you know, in a crowded
shelter.
So the language is veryrigid. And it does not allow
for unique situations.
And that's the main reason whywe are opposing it. We feel that
(08:58):
very strongly.
The veterinarians are the animalhealth professionals, and we
should be respected as such,you know, we go to school
for, you know, eight to 12 yearsfor this.
And we really do need toconsider that we have to,
if we if this band goes through,what's the next bill that will
come along?
What else will be the end?
(09:18):
So, you know, what are yourthoughts on that?
Dr.
Dullard?
Well, the first thing is Iagree with everything that you
said there, Joanne.
The other thing is those likewe've had two different
attorneys look at the languageof this bill, and they have
the word therapeutic inserted.
The proponents of the bill sayall veterinarians are going
to be able to do what they needto do with it. But when you
read the language exactly asit's written, it pretty much
(09:41):
limits this to a disease processthat is affecting the client
does not address this. Ifwe have some type of behavioral
issue that we have to deal with.
I mean, great examples.
I had a cat last year, who wasdramatically tearing its skin
with its back feet.
The owner did everything apse,these cultures, surgical
(10:03):
removal of the diseased tissue,everything was done to, to try
to address this problem with hiscat. And it was an obsessive
compulsive disorder, the cat,and I had ended up declining
its back feet, so it wouldn'tharm itself anymore.
After we did that, we wereable to get the skin healed and
cleared up. This bill wouldprevent us from being able to do
(10:24):
that, because there is no quote,disease going on with that
cat's rear nails, even thoughhe's traumatizing his upper
body. It's a classic example ofsituations where we have to
have the ability to use ourmedical judgment, what's
best for the best, right, andwhat a shame that would be
if that poor kitty suffered,because we were not allowed to
do a procedure that couldalleviate that, that anxiety
(10:48):
and that, you know, that thatself inflicted damage. So
that's a great example.
Thank you, the owner, I mean,she did everything she was
trying to avoid. But if weweren't successful, that she was
basically going to have toput her cat to sleep because it
was causing major trauma toso and so we were able to
save that bond betweenthose two, you know, and I know,
(11:10):
we've gathered other storiesfrom different clients from
across the state. And I thinkthe ones that so striking
are the people that do have, youknow, people that either have
memory loss issues, or peoplethat do have medical conditions
that require them to be on theblood thinners.
And these these folks, you know,cannot have a scratch without
(11:32):
having, you know, seriousramifications.
So, I think, you know, whenwe talk about the cat's own,
you know, medical issuesthat could necessitate
the declaw procedure.
And also, you know, these, thesepeople really depend on these
cats, you know, and we hear alot about, just about everywhere
you go, nowadays, you seesomebody with a harness on
(11:52):
an animal, a therapy animal,okay, and some of them are very
justified, and some of themare, you know, people just buy
that harnesses, but catsoftentimes are very therapeutic
for the elderly.
And, you know, when we thinkabout taking a cat out of the
situation with somebody that ishomebound or wheelchair bound,
(12:12):
that really could have a verynegative effect, I was surprised
to find out that one of thethe main risk factors and
elderly people for death isdepression.
And it seems like cats canreally can really help people.
And I think it's importantthat we are able to have those
conversations to keep those catsin those homes. And let's face
(12:34):
it, Dr.
Dullard, these situations do notcome up very frequently.
I, you know, can't evenrecollect the last time I did
a decline, you know, certainlyhave in the course of my 30 year
career.
But it's just one of thosethings where these are last
alternatives after we'vediscussed everything, after
we've exhausted other options.
So that's why, you know, wereally are trying to protect
(12:57):
the cats as well as theveterinarians in the state of
Illinois.
Right. And that's, I mean,that's exactly sometimes,
like, in the AVMA, they'repretty clear that they don't
recommend, you know, doing theprocedure, unless everything's
been exhausted.
But they have always left thatavenue available, because we
run into these type ofsituations where it is truly
(13:20):
in the best interest for thecat and for the owner, to
have that done.
I'd say it's not our go toprocedure for things is what we
do after we have exhaustedall our other possibilities.
But again, like I said,These cats are relinquished,
especially if they're an oldercat, the likelihood of being
adopted once it goes intoshelter falls pretty
dramatically.
And, and that, like you said,again, is I had one client
(13:44):
recently, she found an outdoorcat, and she just tried to
find a shelter, that wouldstill take care of it. So it
was called five differentshelters.
And they all told her theydidn't have any, any available
openings.
So when the proponents say that,although easily be able to
find some place to take thiskid, I don't believe that that's
true, either. So I completelyagree as well. And I think
(14:05):
the the really importantthing for our members that are
listening is to realizethat this is something that we
need to have a call toaction, it is absolutely
vital that everybody call pickup the phone and call your state
senator, at this point, wehave send out information how to
find your state senator,and I did actually call my state
(14:26):
representative.
And she was a co sponsor ofthe bill and then, in fact,
removed herself after wehad a very nice conversation
about it.
And I do realize that there areveterinarians who are proponents
of this bill, and while Ican value their opinion,
and I've received, you know,just actually just not even a
handful of emails, I also wantthem to realize that this really
(14:49):
comes down to veterinariansbeing restricted as far as
surgical procedures, and I feelthis is very slippery slope. I
feel adamantly that thepoliticians need to stay in
their lane, they're politicians,they are not veterinarians.
And I tried to educate the, theproponent of this bill, the
sponsor, Ms.
(15:09):
Hernandez about it.
And she, unfortunately, it's oneof these situations where I
don't think she fullyunderstands the level of pain
control and anesthesia trainingthat we have, that we are
capable of producing thisprocedure with, if any, is
the most minimal amount ofpain, you know, for the cat.
So veterinarians really need topick up the phone, also, you
(15:34):
know, call, send the letter,you know, and be heard, because
this is this is how, youknow, the laws changes if
we don't speak up.
So I'd like everyone to dothat. And certainly, if there's
anybody that's not able to findtheir, you know, state senator,
give the office a call, theywill certainly be more than
amenable to help with that.
I was just gonna say that thingis also remember that if
(15:55):
this bill does go through,it's going to go into effect 90
days after it's passed.
Right. And I'll be honestwith you, I've discussed
this with multiple clientswithin my hospital.
And they're totally unawarethat they, at least in my
practice, my clients want tohave the ability to make these
choices and stuff with theirveterinarian.
They don't want something that'sprescribed by law.
(16:17):
And we kind of visitedthis whole thing of the human
field last year. And I thinkit's the same in this situation
for us, too.
Absolutely.
I could not agree more.
Thank you.
Why are you a member of theIllinois State Veterinary
Medical Association?
How about the ways ISVMAprotects you and the veterinary
(16:38):
profession, like safeguardingthe professional interests of
veterinarians and CVTs bylimiting government regulation,
and new legislation impactingpractices by providing
up to date messaging onlicensing and regulatory
matters, offering an employeeassistance program with mental
wellness resources, serving as aconfidential call and resource
(16:59):
for information related to theprofession by communicating
critical veterinary issuesthrough print and digital
channels, providing localreasonably priced premium
continuing education, andoffering job posting and job
searching ability and more.
If you're not a member?
Why not join the Illinois StateVeterinary Medical Association
and benefit from these services?
(17:20):
And more.
It's easy.
Join us today at isbm a.org. Andany other final thoughts?
Dr.
Dollard.
for you before we go, we'realmost almost done here
today. Oh, one thing that isgoing to happen is in the
practice sec, the Department ofProfessional Regulation,
it's going to be required thatveterinarians have to have an
(17:43):
email address in which theywill have at the Department of
Professional Regulation, becauseit's going to become their
primary method of contactingveterinarians, when it comes to
dealing with their licensesand stuff.
It's not going to be just youraddress in a paper mail type
thing.
You're gonna have to keep youraddress updated and your email
(18:04):
updated with the departmentwithin 14 days if you move
or change your email, and that'slike an important change
that also is going in thepractice.
Dr.
Carlson any any final thoughtsfrom you?
You know, Joe, I just reallyfeel that I'd like to again,
urge everybody call contact yoursenators and let's be heard.
So that's a very importantthing, so veterinarians need to
(18:25):
step up.
This concludes our inauguralveterinary today podcast.
Thank you to our guest, Dr.
Steve Dullard, the owner of andcare Veterinary Hospital
in Lasalle and and careveterinary clinics in in
Mendota.
Dr.
Dullard Thank you very much.
Thank you.
And also thanks for yourthanks for your service on
the ISVMA board of directorsand of course, join Carlson of
loving care animal clinic inPalatine, the president of the
(18:47):
ISVMA your host of veterinarytoday. I'm Charlie McLaughlin.
Thank you for listening
Hello everyone and welcome to the inaugural
podcast of veterinary todayproduced by the Illinois State
Veterinary Medical Associationor more commonly known as the is
ISVMA.
Veterinary today will producetwo podcasts per month on
veterinary related topicsbeginning this month April
2023. And members will beinformed by email each time
(00:23):
a new podcast is released.
They will also be availableto access on the is VMAs
website.
Veterinary today has beencreated for veterinary
professionals by veterinaryprofessionals and our goal is to
discuss the latest trends anddevelopments in veterinary
practice and medicine fromindividuals making the news in
the veterinary profession.
(00:44):
This podcast shares informationthat allows veterinary
professionals to better serveclients and their pets and
livestock and manage theirpractices and to establish
a more informed, knowledgeableand engaged clinic staff. The
podcast will also addressproposed legislation in
Springfield that impacts theveterinary profession or animal
welfare so you can tune inregularly to hear how proposed
(01:07):
bills may affect your veterinarypractice here in Illinois.
I'm Kelley McLaughlin, yourpodcast moderator and we're
excited to have you listeningwith us today I'm joined by
Dr. Joanne Carlson owner andoperator of loving care animal
clinic in Palatine, alsopresident of the ISVMA a
board of directors and yourveterinary today podcast
host Hi, Dr.
(01:27):
Carlson and Joey.
It's great to be here and tocollaborate with you.
Thank you so much for havingme. Oh, absolutely.
Looking forward to this.
Joining us today to discuss twolegislative issues currently
being addressed at thecapitol is Dr. Steve Dillard,
owner of an care VeterinaryHospital in Lasalle and an care
Veterinary Clinic in Minnesotaand is VMAs Legislative
Committee chaired Dr.
(01:48):
Dullard welcome.
Well, thank you very muchjoy. I'm glad to be here today.
Doctors we have a couple ofmajor proposals rolling
their way through the IllinoisSenate right now including
revisions of the IllinoisVeterinary Medicine and general
surgery practice act of2014. Also HB 1533, and
amendment to the standing humanecare for animals act that
(02:09):
calls for the banning offeline on key ectomy procedures,
more commonly known as Catdeclaws surgery.
That's right, Joey. So let'sstart by talking about the
practice acts since your ISVMAhas been working with elected
officials and the IllinoisDepartment of Financial and
Professional Regulationregarding the language in that
act. Dr.
(02:30):
Dullard, can you give us somebackground about the practice
act and how long we've beenworking on this important issue,
please?
Well, usually the practicesec, what we do is it gets
revised about every 10 years. Ithink now it's in fact maybe
every five years. And so westarted the process about two
years ago and looking atissues we know that are
confronting us that is going tobe affected by the Practice
(02:52):
Act. And one of the thingsthat we are looking at is, you
know, telemedicine.
And with telemedicine, there's athere's a lot of gray area
in that right now.
There's a lot of talk aboutit on national level about
telemedicine and how are wegoing to be able to protect
the public as far as from, youknow, issues that occur that may
not, you know, be you know,relevant within our state, or
(03:15):
if there's a someone that isgiving medical advice from out
of state, so we have to try andmake sure that we can still
protect the people of Illinois,you know, from those type of
activities.
And so telemedicine is likeone of the things that has
been high on our radar forthe last two years.
Are a lot of veterinarianswanting to utilize telemedicine
is it something that is relevantin Illinois?
(03:37):
Well, I think it's relevant.
I mean, during COVID, some of usactually started using it
in order to be able to performsome like recheck type
appointments, which we thoughtmaybe it might be more relevant
for a conversation, maybe aquick view of the pet. Our big
concern, though, is usingtelemedicine as like the primary
evaluation of a pet.
(03:57):
And we addressed all that in ourveterinary practice.
Um, essentially you haveto have a client patient doctor
relationship at least once ayear with a physical exam. And
in our telemedicine section, itbasically says that if you
believe in your professionalopinion, after you have had
(04:17):
this at least yearly exam, youcan perform telemedicine,
if there is an issue where youbelieve a physical exam is
necessary, then it is is yourresponsibility to make sure that
you do do that examination.
It also helps us includethe use of certified veterinary
technicians in their supervisionand still phase the phase of
(04:38):
their supervision was withinyour hospital.
Right.
And, you know, I know we spendhours and hours within our
board of directors trying todelineate the language and the
parameters.
And we're still, you know,working through that for
the most part. But you know,one of the things I'd like to
talk about is that I recentlyhad a group in my area To start
(05:00):
publicizing they're offering atelehealth program that their
clients this is a boarding andtraining facility.
They're offering a telehealthtelemedicine kind of a package
deal to their clients that wouldessentially allow the client to
call talk to a veterinarianand and have diagnoses, etc. And
(05:21):
one of the things that struck meabout that is, are those
veterinarians in Illinois?
And would this practice actamendment that we're proposing
be applicable to that?
What are your thoughts on that?
Dr.
Dullard?
Well, it is because you, firstof all, there's a difference
between telemedicine andtelehealth.
Telehealth is where you're likegiving advice, but you're
(05:43):
not really making a diagnosis.
You're not prescribingmedicines, you're not doing
surgery, you know, that typeof thing.
Telemedicine is the actuallyyou're being a quote a doctor.
And in our state, the way wewould like to admit the
practice, sec, is that thedoctor providing this
telemedicine is licensedwithin the state, the certified
(06:04):
veterinary techniciansthat might be assist, are
licensed within the state.
Because we do have to have theability to protect the public
here. And that's going to be theonly way that we're gonna be
able to do that as if we keepthis within state, if it goes
out of state, and you have adoctor that's doing some type of
treatment, that is not thestandard of practice, whatever
(06:25):
the way that they getreprimanded, it's out of your
hands are out of your state, youcan't do anything about it.
So that's one of the thingsthat we're making very clear
in our amendment that thisis a has to stay within the
state.
Very important, very important.
Thank you for clarifying that. Ithought that was an interesting
topic that came up.
So all right, let's move on toHouse Bill 1533, which I'm very
(06:48):
familiar, I've been interviewedby multiple media entities
is as well as you have. Andit's a controversial topic. And
the bill was introduced into theIllinois House of
Representatives in January, Iknow that we spent hours and
hours discussing it. It wasintroduced by the 50th District
Representative Barbara Hernandezof Aurora, it basically
(07:10):
calls for an amendment to theHumane care for animals act
calling for the banning offeline Anqi activity or declined
procedures with fines in the1000s of dollars for the first
second and third violation.
You know, I have many people whohave said, Well, why do you
oppose this bill?
Joanne, you know, as theISVMA and when I'm speaking,
(07:31):
it's not Dr.
Carlson, you know, owner oflove and care. It is the,
you know, the ISVMA madepresident, I'm representing
the board and all of the theconstituents in our state. And
really what it does is itremoves the decision about the
cat's well being from theveterinarians and also from the
owners, and it basically ignoresthe fact that there is a human
(07:54):
animal bond. And one of thethings that we strive to
do is to uphold that humananimal bond, to have
conversations with our clientsregarding what is the best
medical and surgical care forthose those cats.
Oftentimes, you know, peoplehave situations that are unique,
life is messy. So it reallyrestricts the veterinarians
(08:16):
ability to uphold their medicaloath, and to provide that sound
medical judgment.
You know, we also feel thatit puts cats at jeopardy
to live in well establishedloving homes. In many instances,
people that cannot havealternative options to you know,
to the decline will giveup their cats. And in my area,
(08:37):
there are no shelters, I willeven take cats right now.
They're just all teemingwith cats.
So it really, you know,puts these cats at risk for
abandonment, euthanasia,or in, you know, in a crowded
shelter.
So the language is veryrigid. And it does not allow
for unique situations.
And that's the main reason whywe are opposing it. We feel that
(08:58):
very strongly.
The veterinarians are the animalhealth professionals, and we
should be respected as such,you know, we go to school
for, you know, eight to 12 yearsfor this.
And we really do need toconsider that we have to,
if we if this band goes through,what's the next bill that will
come along?
What else will be the end?
(09:18):
So, you know, what are yourthoughts on that?
Dr.
Dullard?
Well, the first thing is Iagree with everything that you
said there, Joanne.
The other thing is those likewe've had two different
attorneys look at the languageof this bill, and they have
the word therapeutic inserted.
The proponents of the bill sayall veterinarians are going
to be able to do what they needto do with it. But when you
read the language exactly asit's written, it pretty much
(09:41):
limits this to a disease processthat is affecting the client
does not address this. Ifwe have some type of behavioral
issue that we have to deal with.
I mean, great examples.
I had a cat last year, who wasdramatically tearing its skin
with its back feet.
The owner did everything apse,these cultures, surgical
(10:03):
removal of the diseased tissue,everything was done to, to try
to address this problem with hiscat. And it was an obsessive
compulsive disorder, the cat,and I had ended up declining
its back feet, so it wouldn'tharm itself anymore.
After we did that, we wereable to get the skin healed and
cleared up. This bill wouldprevent us from being able to do
(10:24):
that, because there is no quote,disease going on with that
cat's rear nails, even thoughhe's traumatizing his upper
body. It's a classic example ofsituations where we have to
have the ability to use ourmedical judgment, what's
best for the best, right, andwhat a shame that would be
if that poor kitty suffered,because we were not allowed to
do a procedure that couldalleviate that, that anxiety
(10:48):
and that, you know, that thatself inflicted damage. So
that's a great example.
Thank you, the owner, I mean,she did everything she was
trying to avoid. But if weweren't successful, that she was
basically going to have toput her cat to sleep because it
was causing major trauma toso and so we were able to
save that bond betweenthose two, you know, and I know,
(11:10):
we've gathered other storiesfrom different clients from
across the state. And I thinkthe ones that so striking
are the people that do have, youknow, people that either have
memory loss issues, or peoplethat do have medical conditions
that require them to be on theblood thinners.
And these these folks, you know,cannot have a scratch without
(11:32):
having, you know, seriousramifications.
So, I think, you know, whenwe talk about the cat's own,
you know, medical issuesthat could necessitate
the declaw procedure.
And also, you know, these, thesepeople really depend on these
cats, you know, and we hear alot about, just about everywhere
you go, nowadays, you seesomebody with a harness on
(11:52):
an animal, a therapy animal,okay, and some of them are very
justified, and some of themare, you know, people just buy
that harnesses, but catsoftentimes are very therapeutic
for the elderly.
And, you know, when we thinkabout taking a cat out of the
situation with somebody that ishomebound or wheelchair bound,
(12:12):
that really could have a verynegative effect, I was surprised
to find out that one of thethe main risk factors and
elderly people for death isdepression.
And it seems like cats canreally can really help people.
And I think it's importantthat we are able to have those
conversations to keep those catsin those homes. And let's face
(12:34):
it, Dr.
Dullard, these situations do notcome up very frequently.
I, you know, can't evenrecollect the last time I did
a decline, you know, certainlyhave in the course of my 30 year
career.
But it's just one of thosethings where these are last
alternatives after we'vediscussed everything, after
we've exhausted other options.
So that's why, you know, wereally are trying to protect
(12:57):
the cats as well as theveterinarians in the state of
Illinois.
Right. And that's, I mean,that's exactly sometimes,
like, in the AVMA, they'repretty clear that they don't
recommend, you know, doing theprocedure, unless everything's
been exhausted.
But they have always left thatavenue available, because we
run into these type ofsituations where it is truly
(13:20):
in the best interest for thecat and for the owner, to
have that done.
I'd say it's not our go toprocedure for things is what we
do after we have exhaustedall our other possibilities.
But again, like I said,These cats are relinquished,
especially if they're an oldercat, the likelihood of being
adopted once it goes intoshelter falls pretty
dramatically.
And, and that, like you said,again, is I had one client
(13:44):
recently, she found an outdoorcat, and she just tried to
find a shelter, that wouldstill take care of it. So it
was called five differentshelters.
And they all told her theydidn't have any, any available
openings.
So when the proponents say that,although easily be able to
find some place to take thiskid, I don't believe that that's
true, either. So I completelyagree as well. And I think
(14:05):
the the really importantthing for our members that are
listening is to realizethat this is something that we
need to have a call toaction, it is absolutely
vital that everybody call pickup the phone and call your state
senator, at this point, wehave send out information how to
find your state senator,and I did actually call my state
(14:26):
representative.
And she was a co sponsor ofthe bill and then, in fact,
removed herself after wehad a very nice conversation
about it.
And I do realize that there areveterinarians who are proponents
of this bill, and while Ican value their opinion,
and I've received, you know,just actually just not even a
handful of emails, I also wantthem to realize that this really
(14:49):
comes down to veterinariansbeing restricted as far as
surgical procedures, and I feelthis is very slippery slope. I
feel adamantly that thepoliticians need to stay in
their lane, they're politicians,they are not veterinarians.
And I tried to educate the, theproponent of this bill, the
sponsor, Ms.
(15:09):
Hernandez about it.
And she, unfortunately, it's oneof these situations where I
don't think she fullyunderstands the level of pain
control and anesthesia trainingthat we have, that we are
capable of producing thisprocedure with, if any, is
the most minimal amount ofpain, you know, for the cat.
So veterinarians really need topick up the phone, also, you
(15:34):
know, call, send the letter,you know, and be heard, because
this is this is how, youknow, the laws changes if
we don't speak up.
So I'd like everyone to dothat. And certainly, if there's
anybody that's not able to findtheir, you know, state senator,
give the office a call, theywill certainly be more than
amenable to help with that.
I was just gonna say that thingis also remember that if
(15:55):
this bill does go through,it's going to go into effect 90
days after it's passed.
Right. And I'll be honestwith you, I've discussed
this with multiple clientswithin my hospital.
And they're totally unawarethat they, at least in my
practice, my clients want tohave the ability to make these
choices and stuff with theirveterinarian.
They don't want something that'sprescribed by law.
(16:17):
And we kind of visitedthis whole thing of the human
field last year. And I thinkit's the same in this situation
for us, too.
Absolutely.
I could not agree more.
Thank you.
Why are you a member of theIllinois State Veterinary
Medical Association?
How about the ways ISVMAprotects you and the veterinary
(16:38):
profession, like safeguardingthe professional interests of
veterinarians and CVTs bylimiting government regulation,
and new legislation impactingpractices by providing
up to date messaging onlicensing and regulatory
matters, offering an employeeassistance program with mental
wellness resources, serving as aconfidential call and resource
(16:59):
for information related to theprofession by communicating
critical veterinary issuesthrough print and digital
channels, providing localreasonably priced premium
continuing education, andoffering job posting and job
searching ability and more.
If you're not a member?
Why not join the Illinois StateVeterinary Medical Association
and benefit from these services?
(17:20):
And more.
It's easy.
Join us today at isbm a.org. Andany other final thoughts?
Dr.
Dollard.
for you before we go, we'realmost almost done here
today. Oh, one thing that isgoing to happen is in the
practice sec, the Department ofProfessional Regulation,
it's going to be required thatveterinarians have to have an
(17:43):
email address in which theywill have at the Department of
Professional Regulation, becauseit's going to become their
primary method of contactingveterinarians, when it comes to
dealing with their licensesand stuff.
It's not going to be just youraddress in a paper mail type
thing.
You're gonna have to keep youraddress updated and your email
(18:04):
updated with the departmentwithin 14 days if you move
or change your email, and that'slike an important change
that also is going in thepractice.
Dr.
Carlson any any final thoughtsfrom you?
You know, Joe, I just reallyfeel that I'd like to again,
urge everybody call contact yoursenators and let's be heard.
So that's a very importantthing, so veterinarians need to
(18:25):
step up.
This concludes our inauguralveterinary today podcast.
Thank you to our guest, Dr.
Steve Dullard, the owner of andcare Veterinary Hospital
in Lasalle and and careveterinary clinics in in
Mendota.
Dr.
Dullard Thank you very much.
Thank you.
And also thanks for yourthanks for your service on
the ISVMA board of directorsand of course, join Carlson of
loving care animal clinic inPalatine, the president of the
(18:47):
ISVMA your host of veterinarytoday. I'm Charlie McLaughlin.
Thank you for listening
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