December 23, 2025 • 18 mins
A spike in feline H5N1 cases has many of us asking the same question: how did bird flu end up in our living rooms? We sit down with author and clinician Dr. Jane Sykes to map the path from migratory birds to household pets, spotlighting the two biggest drivers of risk for cats—predation on infected wildlife and contaminated raw diets. The conversation is candid, practical, and rooted in current data, with clear guidance for veterinarians and pet owners who want to reduce danger without fear or hype.
We break down the clinical pattern that should trigger suspicion: a rapidly worsening illness with fever, lower respiratory signs, neurologic changes like ataxia or seizures, hypersalivation, and even sudden vision loss. Jane shares a step-by-step plan for what to do next: preserve the suspect diet for testing, notify local public health partners, and coordinate diagnostics through NAHLN labs with NVSL confirmation. We also unpack why household cases typically arise from common exposure rather than cat-to-cat spread, and why ending raw feeding across the home is the first and most effective intervention. The oseltamivir question comes up too; Jane weighs the risks, pharmacologic unknowns, and stewardship concerns around antivirals in cats.
Listeners get concise takeaways: cooked diets are safer, indoor life or secure catios cut exposure, and detailed dietary histories matter more than ever because many raw products look like pasteurized foods. We touch on the evolving clade 2.3.4.4b, the possibility of reassortment in cats, and why dogs appear more resistant yet still susceptible to infection. Jane points to the research we still need—serology to find silent infections, better food-chain surveillance, and communication tools that help us talk about diet without blame. Subscribe, share with a colleague or pet-loving friend, and leave a quick review to help more people find evidence-based guidance on companion animal health.
JAVMA article: https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.25.06.0388
Washington Post article: https://wapo.st/49isM8M
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
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SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Welcome to Veterinary Vertex, the Avium
Made Journal's podcast, where wedelve into behind-the-scenes
look with manuscript authors.
I'm editor-in-chief LisaFortier, joined by Associate
Editor Sarah Wright.
Hi everyone, and thanks fortuning in.
Today in this episode, we'rediscussing companion animals in
H5N1, which is highly pathogenicavian influenza, also known as
(00:56):
bird flu, with author Jane.
Hey Jane, I know you're superbusy and on clinics and such an
awesome author.
Thanks again for being here withus.
SPEAKER_03 (01:08):
Oh, thanks for the opportunity to contribute again.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
So, Jane, before we dive into your manuscripts, can
you paint a picture of thecurrent situation?
Many veterinarians have heardabout H5N1 and wildlife and
large animals, but what'shappening right now in terms of
epidemiology?
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Yeah, thanks.
Like the incredible thing aboutH5N1 avian influenza is that
since it emerged in Europe inlate 2020, the situation has
really been changing on analmost weekly basis.
It makes it hard to keep up.
This year alone, there's beennearly 70 infections that have
been documented in domestic catsby the USDA.
(01:46):
And since the virus appeared inthe US at the end of 2021,
there's been around 200 catcases in the United States.
There was a lull in domesticpoultry and mammalian cases in
the summer and early fall thisyear.
But since then we've seeninfections and deaths rise again
in association with avianmigration patterns.
(02:10):
So the bottom line for companionanimals is that we're continuing
to see plenty of cases in wildbirds as well as mammals like
house mice.
So cats remain at risk ofinfection from predation.
And because the feeding of rawfood diets to pets by owners
continues to be very popular,cats remain at risk of infection
from both raw milk andcommercial raw food diets.
(02:33):
So the cats that died this yearfrom San Francisco and Los
Angeles had been fed acontaminated raw food chicken
diet, which was actuallycontaminated with a genotype
B313.
And that genotype disappeared inlate 2024.
The diet had a cell bide diet,amazingly, of September 2026.
(02:56):
So the virus can survive longperiods of time in raw food
diets that are stored frozen orunder refrigeration.
So that risk continues to bevery high.
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
That's really fascinating.
And not only disease, butlacking some micronutrients.
Really, really importantinformation for the public as
well as our veterinarycolleagues.
Jane, what motivated you toexamine H5N1 and companion
(03:28):
animals?
SPEAKER_03 (03:29):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
My interest in this diseasebegan actually when I started
taking media calls about catcases in California.
And I also received manyrequests to talk to
veterinarians and cat ownersabout the disease and requests
to help develop infectioncontrol protocols in our
hospital.
(03:50):
And I had had experiences beforethis in terms of COVID-19 in
dogs and cats and educating thepublic and veterinarians about
that disease.
And I realized that there was areal opportunity to do some
proactive education on thetopic.
The rise in infectionsassociated with raw food diets
(04:12):
and the increasing popularity ofraw food diets also made me very
concerned.
And I noticed that there seemedto be some misinformation
circulating about thesusceptibility of dogs to H5N1
infection.
So I developed a presentationfor the California Veterinary
Medical Association, whichinvolved a really extensive
(04:34):
review of the literature so thatI could present very accurate
information.
And as a good review article ofinfections in cats was actually
lacking in the literature, itseemed a really logical next
step to publish one to increaseawareness about the problem.
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
If you're in the exam room with a patient, what
are the key clinical featuresthat might raise suspicion of
H5N1?
SPEAKER_03 (05:01):
Yeah, so the really important thing about this
disease is history.
So it's really about history,history, history for risk
factors.
So being fed raw food, raw milk,a cat with exposure to dairy
cattle, domestic poultry,whether it be direct or
indirect, for example, exposureto dairy farm workers, and also
(05:27):
getting a history about anypredation, whether it's indoor
or outdoor type access towildlife, and whether other cats
in the household have been illwith similar signs.
So it's about having a highindex of suspicion for the
disease, because still it's arelatively rare disease in cats.
(05:48):
So having it in your mind whenexamining a sick cat, especially
a cat that has acute illness andsevere illness with signs of
fever, lower respiratory signs,neurologic signs, which are
really common in cats, and manycats are actually
hypersalivating as well.
Some cats have been blind aswell due to ocular involvement,
(06:11):
like carioetinitis.
So I think it's so importantthat we ask questions about
diet, especially raw food diets.
And some raw food diets canactually look quite like
processed pasteurized diets.
And so you really have to checkthe label, ask the owner the
(06:33):
brand, and do a search for thebrand online and check to see
whether or not it could be raw,because it can be sometimes very
difficult to tell.
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
So let's say clinician suspects H5N1.
What are the next stepsdiagnostically?
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
Yeah, so I would say first of all, um try to get as
as much information on any rawfood diets fed as possible.
Uh, get the owner to keep thediet, bring it in so it can be
um tested.
Um notify local public healthofficials.
And then really, there's a lotof different samples that can be
(07:08):
tested.
Uh, urine can be tested for thevirus, blood or saliva
discharges uh can be positive.
And then you are usually goingto be contacting a regional
National Animal HealthLaboratory Network laboratory,
um, and that laboratory um willverify non-negative results, uh,
(07:31):
and then they'll be um confirmedthrough the National Veterinary
Services Laboratories.
But a local public healthofficial can help with
navigation of uh all of thatdiagnostic testing.
SPEAKER_02 (07:45):
I find Jane, when I ask people if they're feeding a
raw diet, they get the clientsget pretty defensive.
Do you have any uh smooth waysto ask or what what diet are you
feeding?
Is it raw?
They uh the one people that Ispeak to, not all, but many are
it it's frozen, it's fine, it'spasteurized, it's fine.
And you're like, like you said,it's confusing.
(08:06):
Do you have any tidbits, uhpearls of wisdom for
veterinarians how to ask thatquestion?
SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think trying to make it a
routine thing and say, you know,we always collect a dietary
history and what diet is youranimal being fed, and um really
get into the details with that.
Do they know brand?
Um, or can when they get home,can they check the brand?
I think it's just a veryimportant part of a um a normal
(08:35):
history taking process for asick dog or cat.
Um, and so trying to sort ofnormalize that and be very
matter-of-fact about it withoutum being judgmental is the first
step because um oftentimes it isreally difficult to tell.
I would say that most clientsare not aware of the risks of
(08:55):
raw food diets and are quite uhhorrified when they learn that
they can be sources of differentum infections like salmonella
and listeria and H5N1.
Um, so many people um arewilling to change because they
just don't know what the risksare.
Um, and I think just the factthat now you can go into pet
(09:16):
stores and the shelves arepacked with different types of
packaged raw food diets.
I mean, it's really, it's neverreally been like this in the
past.
It's uh reached an amazing peak.
I recently went into a pet foodstore in Shreveport in
Louisiana, and the entire store,which was a big store, was
(09:37):
devoted to um raw food orfreeze-dried diets.
And um, like I was just soimpressed of the range and
number of different diets thatwere available.
So I think many animal ownersjust think it's the right thing
to do and they they're not awareof the risks.
Uh, and I think that it's reallyimportant that veterinarians do
educate um owners about therisks of uh infections like H5N1
(10:02):
and tell them stories about uhanimals that have died.
But people, you know, somepeople can be very hardcore and
very resistant to change.
Um, but I think legally uh wealso need to document that we've
had that conversation with thembecause if we don't have the
conversation with them and thentheir pet gets uh a serious
(10:23):
infection like H5N1 influenza,then we could be um legally at
risk if they're not aware ofthat.
SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
Yeah, great, great words of wisdom.
Thank you.
And sticking with the household,when a positive case is
identified in a companionanimal, what does that mean for
the rest of the household?
SPEAKER_03 (10:42):
Yeah, so fortunately there's a low risk of
cat-to-human transmission thatreally hasn't been documented.
However, cats can shed the viruswhen they're infected, um, and
potentially there could be uhspread of infection to other
cats in the household.
So I think that potentialexists, although when multiple
(11:04):
animals in a household have beenaffected, it's usually because
of common exposure, for example,to the same um raw food diet.
Um, but there is that potentialfor transmission.
Um, there was um an uh anecdotalum uh um benefit potentially of
(11:26):
treating a cat, cat withoscultamavir in order to um to
cure that cat of uh influenzavirus infection, but we don't
really know what thepharmacokinetics of
oscillatamavir um are in cats,and we also don't um know
whether or not there could beany adverse effects of using
(11:49):
that drug in cats.
So I think we always have to bevery careful about using human
antiviral drugs in cats or anyuh human drugs in cats, as they
tend to metabolize drugs quitedifferently to other species.
And so there is the potentialfor toxicity.
Also, osultamilvir or tamiflu isa drug that has been reserved
(12:09):
for human infections.
Um, and so there is some concernabout using that drug
indiscriminately without reallyknowing whether or not influenza
is the problem.
So treatment is a little bitcontroversial, but there is the
potential for transmission toother cats.
I think the biggest thing is tolike stop feeding any raw food
diets to other pets in thehousehold and watching other
(12:32):
pets for any clinical signs uhin association with the
unaffected cat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yeah, what you just said there remind me of
something I learned in vetschool, which is cats are not
small dogs.
They are their cats are notsmall dogs.
Yes.
Yep.
So Jeannie shared so muchimportant information with us
today.
And I really want to boil itdown now to some of the really
important takeaways for ourlisteners.
So, first we'll start with theveterinarian's perspective.
(12:58):
What are the key take-homemessages from your manuscript
that you hope veterinarians willremember?
SPEAKER_03 (13:04):
Yeah, so for veterinarians, um, strains of
H5N1 that have been circulatingum since uh late 2020 belong to
this clade called H5N12344B,which is a particularly
concerning clade because of itsability to infect both birds and
mammals and reassort veryrapidly.
(13:26):
And several different genotypesof that virus have emerged that
might have differing pathogenicpotential for animals as well as
humans.
And most infections in cats arepreventable by feeding cooked
diets and keeping cats indoors.
When cats develop illness, itusually progresses rapidly and
it usually includes neurologicsigns.
(13:48):
So the cat with upperrespiratory tract disease that
we see every day is not a catthat you should be worried about
H5N1 influenza in.
Cats also have the potential toact as a reassortment vessel for
avian influenza viruses.
Um, and so you know there isconcern for public health should
such an event occur and uh leadto a virus that's more
(14:12):
pathogenic for people.
Dogs seem to be resistant todisease, although they can be
infected.
Um, and this virus is not goingaway.
Um, it remains an ongoingconcern because we're continuing
to see these reassortment eventsand spread as a result of bird
migration.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
And how about key takeaways for the client or the
pet owner?
You said keep the cat inside,don't feed raw diets.
What else would you wisdom wouldyou impart on our clients and
pet owners?
SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Yeah, so um definitely don't feed raw food
diets or raw milk.
And it's really ourresponsibility as veterinarians
to educate um clients about thisand keep cats indoors, or if
they need to have some outdoorexposure, think about building a
catio.
Um there are some reallycreative patios out there.
And in fact, in in Oregon everyyear, they have uh catio tours.
(15:07):
So um very creative catio ideas.
Um, you can find a lot of themonline as well.
So I talk to animal owners aboutthat.
Um, and also um things likerodent control within
households, um, because therehave been many detections of
H5N1 in in house mice, forexample.
And I think really the mostdifficult thing is what you've
(15:28):
alluded to already, is thatthere are some owners that
really believe that raw fooddiets are better.
So maybe having a handout forclients on the um pros and cons
and what's known about raw fooddiets.
Um, and I recently published acolumn in my Washington Post Ask
of that series on raw fooddiets.
(15:50):
I think that's just kind of areally nice column that um can
be useful for clients in termsof education about those diets
and the risk of those diets.
SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
Yeah, Jane, we're happy to link to that article
too in our show notes as wellfor anyone that wants more
information about that.
SPEAKER_03 (16:07):
That would be fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
So, Jane, what research directions are you most
excited about?
SPEAKER_03 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean, I think we still don't have a very
good understanding of theepidemiology of this disease in
in companion animals.
There's a lot to learn, um, justas there was a lot to learn
about COVID, and we're stilllearning about um SARS-CoV-2
infections in dogs and cats, andthe epidemiology of those
infections in dogs and cats.
(16:35):
And I suspect with futurestudies uh we'll find that what
we're seeing in terms of thesedeaths are just the tip of the
iceberg.
And there's probably a lot ofboth dogs and cats that get
infected that we don't knowabout.
So there's probably a lot ofevidence of subclinical
infections.
And I think we're going to belearning about that in the
(16:58):
future.
Um, so seeing how this diseasechanges in the future will be
very interesting, and alsogetting a better understanding
about the the um the incidenceof infections in in dogs and
cats.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
Yeah, thanks so much, Jane.
I know this is a uh very timely,continues to be a very timely
topic.
Um I want to ask a couple funquestions.
If you could instantlycommunicate with any one
species, which would you pickand what would be the first
thing you'd ask them?
SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
Um, yeah.
So I think my dog, um Bodie, Ihave a black lab called Bodhi,
who's um quite kind of an odddog.
I would really like to know ifhe likes to go on road trips or
not, or if he's more of ahomebody.
Sometimes difficult to tell.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Fair.
Yeah, the things that we weredoing to like bring them along,
and they're probably like, justleave me alone.
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
I just want to stay at home.
SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
On the professional side, is there a gadget or
veterinary gadget or tool thatyou wish existed but doesn't
yet?
SPEAKER_03 (18:03):
Yeah, I I actually wish that we had um a way of
cleaning out Aspergillus fungalplaques from dog noses quickly.
Um, so I wish we had a quick wayof diagnosing that disease
that's easy, and a way of beingable to clean out all of those
fungal plaques efficiently andquickly.
(18:25):
It takes us hours sometimes, um,and we really don't have a good
gadget for doing that yet.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Well, Jane, thank you so much for being here
today, for joining us.
We always appreciate whenever wehave you on the podcast, and
also we love reading yourarticles too.
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
Thank you so much for the opportunity to comment.
SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
And for our listeners and viewers, you can
read Jane's article in JAFMA.
I'm Sarah Wright here at LisaFortier.
Be sure to tune in next week foranother episode of Veterinary
Vertex.
And don't forget to leave us arating and review on Apple
Podcasts or wherever you listen.
From the makers of FET recommended Green East
(00:02):
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nutrition with science-backedrecipes.
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animal nutritionists, offersoptions to help support healthy
joints, digestion, and more.
(00:24):
Whether it's meal time ormobility support, Green East
helps you care for your dog fromthe inside out.
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SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Welcome to Veterinary Vertex, the Avium
Made Journal's podcast, where wedelve into behind-the-scenes
look with manuscript authors.
I'm editor-in-chief LisaFortier, joined by Associate
Editor Sarah Wright.
Hi everyone, and thanks fortuning in.
Today in this episode, we'rediscussing companion animals in
H5N1, which is highly pathogenicavian influenza, also known as
(00:56):
bird flu, with author Jane.
Hey Jane, I know you're superbusy and on clinics and such an
awesome author.
Thanks again for being here withus.
SPEAKER_03 (01:08):
Oh, thanks for the opportunity to contribute again.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
So, Jane, before we dive into your manuscripts, can
you paint a picture of thecurrent situation?
Many veterinarians have heardabout H5N1 and wildlife and
large animals, but what'shappening right now in terms of
epidemiology?
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Yeah, thanks.
Like the incredible thing aboutH5N1 avian influenza is that
since it emerged in Europe inlate 2020, the situation has
really been changing on analmost weekly basis.
It makes it hard to keep up.
This year alone, there's beennearly 70 infections that have
been documented in domestic catsby the USDA.
(01:46):
And since the virus appeared inthe US at the end of 2021,
there's been around 200 catcases in the United States.
There was a lull in domesticpoultry and mammalian cases in
the summer and early fall thisyear.
But since then we've seeninfections and deaths rise again
in association with avianmigration patterns.
(02:10):
So the bottom line for companionanimals is that we're continuing
to see plenty of cases in wildbirds as well as mammals like
house mice.
So cats remain at risk ofinfection from predation.
And because the feeding of rawfood diets to pets by owners
continues to be very popular,cats remain at risk of infection
from both raw milk andcommercial raw food diets.
(02:33):
So the cats that died this yearfrom San Francisco and Los
Angeles had been fed acontaminated raw food chicken
diet, which was actuallycontaminated with a genotype
B313.
And that genotype disappeared inlate 2024.
The diet had a cell bide diet,amazingly, of September 2026.
(02:56):
So the virus can survive longperiods of time in raw food
diets that are stored frozen orunder refrigeration.
So that risk continues to bevery high.
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
That's really fascinating.
And not only disease, butlacking some micronutrients.
Really, really importantinformation for the public as
well as our veterinarycolleagues.
Jane, what motivated you toexamine H5N1 and companion
(03:28):
animals?
SPEAKER_03 (03:29):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
My interest in this diseasebegan actually when I started
taking media calls about catcases in California.
And I also received manyrequests to talk to
veterinarians and cat ownersabout the disease and requests
to help develop infectioncontrol protocols in our
hospital.
(03:50):
And I had had experiences beforethis in terms of COVID-19 in
dogs and cats and educating thepublic and veterinarians about
that disease.
And I realized that there was areal opportunity to do some
proactive education on thetopic.
The rise in infectionsassociated with raw food diets
(04:12):
and the increasing popularity ofraw food diets also made me very
concerned.
And I noticed that there seemedto be some misinformation
circulating about thesusceptibility of dogs to H5N1
infection.
So I developed a presentationfor the California Veterinary
Medical Association, whichinvolved a really extensive
(04:34):
review of the literature so thatI could present very accurate
information.
And as a good review article ofinfections in cats was actually
lacking in the literature, itseemed a really logical next
step to publish one to increaseawareness about the problem.
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
If you're in the exam room with a patient, what
are the key clinical featuresthat might raise suspicion of
H5N1?
SPEAKER_03 (05:01):
Yeah, so the really important thing about this
disease is history.
So it's really about history,history, history for risk
factors.
So being fed raw food, raw milk,a cat with exposure to dairy
cattle, domestic poultry,whether it be direct or
indirect, for example, exposureto dairy farm workers, and also
(05:27):
getting a history about anypredation, whether it's indoor
or outdoor type access towildlife, and whether other cats
in the household have been illwith similar signs.
So it's about having a highindex of suspicion for the
disease, because still it's arelatively rare disease in cats.
(05:48):
So having it in your mind whenexamining a sick cat, especially
a cat that has acute illness andsevere illness with signs of
fever, lower respiratory signs,neurologic signs, which are
really common in cats, and manycats are actually
hypersalivating as well.
Some cats have been blind aswell due to ocular involvement,
(06:11):
like carioetinitis.
So I think it's so importantthat we ask questions about
diet, especially raw food diets.
And some raw food diets canactually look quite like
processed pasteurized diets.
And so you really have to checkthe label, ask the owner the
(06:33):
brand, and do a search for thebrand online and check to see
whether or not it could be raw,because it can be sometimes very
difficult to tell.
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
So let's say clinician suspects H5N1.
What are the next stepsdiagnostically?
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
Yeah, so I would say first of all, um try to get as
as much information on any rawfood diets fed as possible.
Uh, get the owner to keep thediet, bring it in so it can be
um tested.
Um notify local public healthofficials.
And then really, there's a lotof different samples that can be
(07:08):
tested.
Uh, urine can be tested for thevirus, blood or saliva
discharges uh can be positive.
And then you are usually goingto be contacting a regional
National Animal HealthLaboratory Network laboratory,
um, and that laboratory um willverify non-negative results, uh,
(07:31):
and then they'll be um confirmedthrough the National Veterinary
Services Laboratories.
But a local public healthofficial can help with
navigation of uh all of thatdiagnostic testing.
SPEAKER_02 (07:45):
I find Jane, when I ask people if they're feeding a
raw diet, they get the clientsget pretty defensive.
Do you have any uh smooth waysto ask or what what diet are you
feeding?
Is it raw?
They uh the one people that Ispeak to, not all, but many are
it it's frozen, it's fine, it'spasteurized, it's fine.
And you're like, like you said,it's confusing.
(08:06):
Do you have any tidbits, uhpearls of wisdom for
veterinarians how to ask thatquestion?
SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think trying to make it a
routine thing and say, you know,we always collect a dietary
history and what diet is youranimal being fed, and um really
get into the details with that.
Do they know brand?
Um, or can when they get home,can they check the brand?
I think it's just a veryimportant part of a um a normal
(08:35):
history taking process for asick dog or cat.
Um, and so trying to sort ofnormalize that and be very
matter-of-fact about it withoutum being judgmental is the first
step because um oftentimes it isreally difficult to tell.
I would say that most clientsare not aware of the risks of
(08:55):
raw food diets and are quite uhhorrified when they learn that
they can be sources of differentum infections like salmonella
and listeria and H5N1.
Um, so many people um arewilling to change because they
just don't know what the risksare.
Um, and I think just the factthat now you can go into pet
(09:16):
stores and the shelves arepacked with different types of
packaged raw food diets.
I mean, it's really, it's neverreally been like this in the
past.
It's uh reached an amazing peak.
I recently went into a pet foodstore in Shreveport in
Louisiana, and the entire store,which was a big store, was
(09:37):
devoted to um raw food orfreeze-dried diets.
And um, like I was just soimpressed of the range and
number of different diets thatwere available.
So I think many animal ownersjust think it's the right thing
to do and they they're not awareof the risks.
Uh, and I think that it's reallyimportant that veterinarians do
educate um owners about therisks of uh infections like H5N1
(10:02):
and tell them stories about uhanimals that have died.
But people, you know, somepeople can be very hardcore and
very resistant to change.
Um, but I think legally uh wealso need to document that we've
had that conversation with thembecause if we don't have the
conversation with them and thentheir pet gets uh a serious
(10:23):
infection like H5N1 influenza,then we could be um legally at
risk if they're not aware ofthat.
SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
Yeah, great, great words of wisdom.
Thank you.
And sticking with the household,when a positive case is
identified in a companionanimal, what does that mean for
the rest of the household?
SPEAKER_03 (10:42):
Yeah, so fortunately there's a low risk of
cat-to-human transmission thatreally hasn't been documented.
However, cats can shed the viruswhen they're infected, um, and
potentially there could be uhspread of infection to other
cats in the household.
So I think that potentialexists, although when multiple
(11:04):
animals in a household have beenaffected, it's usually because
of common exposure, for example,to the same um raw food diet.
Um, but there is that potentialfor transmission.
Um, there was um an uh anecdotalum uh um benefit potentially of
(11:26):
treating a cat, cat withoscultamavir in order to um to
cure that cat of uh influenzavirus infection, but we don't
really know what thepharmacokinetics of
oscillatamavir um are in cats,and we also don't um know
whether or not there could beany adverse effects of using
(11:49):
that drug in cats.
So I think we always have to bevery careful about using human
antiviral drugs in cats or anyuh human drugs in cats, as they
tend to metabolize drugs quitedifferently to other species.
And so there is the potentialfor toxicity.
Also, osultamilvir or tamiflu isa drug that has been reserved
(12:09):
for human infections.
Um, and so there is some concernabout using that drug
indiscriminately without reallyknowing whether or not influenza
is the problem.
So treatment is a little bitcontroversial, but there is the
potential for transmission toother cats.
I think the biggest thing is tolike stop feeding any raw food
diets to other pets in thehousehold and watching other
(12:32):
pets for any clinical signs uhin association with the
unaffected cat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yeah, what you just said there remind me of
something I learned in vetschool, which is cats are not
small dogs.
They are their cats are notsmall dogs.
Yes.
Yep.
So Jeannie shared so muchimportant information with us
today.
And I really want to boil itdown now to some of the really
important takeaways for ourlisteners.
So, first we'll start with theveterinarian's perspective.
(12:58):
What are the key take-homemessages from your manuscript
that you hope veterinarians willremember?
SPEAKER_03 (13:04):
Yeah, so for veterinarians, um, strains of
H5N1 that have been circulatingum since uh late 2020 belong to
this clade called H5N12344B,which is a particularly
concerning clade because of itsability to infect both birds and
mammals and reassort veryrapidly.
(13:26):
And several different genotypesof that virus have emerged that
might have differing pathogenicpotential for animals as well as
humans.
And most infections in cats arepreventable by feeding cooked
diets and keeping cats indoors.
When cats develop illness, itusually progresses rapidly and
it usually includes neurologicsigns.
(13:48):
So the cat with upperrespiratory tract disease that
we see every day is not a catthat you should be worried about
H5N1 influenza in.
Cats also have the potential toact as a reassortment vessel for
avian influenza viruses.
Um, and so you know there isconcern for public health should
such an event occur and uh leadto a virus that's more
(14:12):
pathogenic for people.
Dogs seem to be resistant todisease, although they can be
infected.
Um, and this virus is not goingaway.
Um, it remains an ongoingconcern because we're continuing
to see these reassortment eventsand spread as a result of bird
migration.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
And how about key takeaways for the client or the
pet owner?
You said keep the cat inside,don't feed raw diets.
What else would you wisdom wouldyou impart on our clients and
pet owners?
SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Yeah, so um definitely don't feed raw food
diets or raw milk.
And it's really ourresponsibility as veterinarians
to educate um clients about thisand keep cats indoors, or if
they need to have some outdoorexposure, think about building a
catio.
Um there are some reallycreative patios out there.
And in fact, in in Oregon everyyear, they have uh catio tours.
(15:07):
So um very creative catio ideas.
Um, you can find a lot of themonline as well.
So I talk to animal owners aboutthat.
Um, and also um things likerodent control within
households, um, because therehave been many detections of
H5N1 in in house mice, forexample.
And I think really the mostdifficult thing is what you've
(15:28):
alluded to already, is thatthere are some owners that
really believe that raw fooddiets are better.
So maybe having a handout forclients on the um pros and cons
and what's known about raw fooddiets.
Um, and I recently published acolumn in my Washington Post Ask
of that series on raw fooddiets.
(15:50):
I think that's just kind of areally nice column that um can
be useful for clients in termsof education about those diets
and the risk of those diets.
SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
Yeah, Jane, we're happy to link to that article
too in our show notes as wellfor anyone that wants more
information about that.
SPEAKER_03 (16:07):
That would be fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
So, Jane, what research directions are you most
excited about?
SPEAKER_03 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean, I think we still don't have a very
good understanding of theepidemiology of this disease in
in companion animals.
There's a lot to learn, um, justas there was a lot to learn
about COVID, and we're stilllearning about um SARS-CoV-2
infections in dogs and cats, andthe epidemiology of those
infections in dogs and cats.
(16:35):
And I suspect with futurestudies uh we'll find that what
we're seeing in terms of thesedeaths are just the tip of the
iceberg.
And there's probably a lot ofboth dogs and cats that get
infected that we don't knowabout.
So there's probably a lot ofevidence of subclinical
infections.
And I think we're going to belearning about that in the
(16:58):
future.
Um, so seeing how this diseasechanges in the future will be
very interesting, and alsogetting a better understanding
about the the um the incidenceof infections in in dogs and
cats.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
Yeah, thanks so much, Jane.
I know this is a uh very timely,continues to be a very timely
topic.
Um I want to ask a couple funquestions.
If you could instantlycommunicate with any one
species, which would you pickand what would be the first
thing you'd ask them?
SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
Um, yeah.
So I think my dog, um Bodie, Ihave a black lab called Bodhi,
who's um quite kind of an odddog.
I would really like to know ifhe likes to go on road trips or
not, or if he's more of ahomebody.
Sometimes difficult to tell.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Fair.
Yeah, the things that we weredoing to like bring them along,
and they're probably like, justleave me alone.
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
I just want to stay at home.
SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
On the professional side, is there a gadget or
veterinary gadget or tool thatyou wish existed but doesn't
yet?
SPEAKER_03 (18:03):
Yeah, I I actually wish that we had um a way of
cleaning out Aspergillus fungalplaques from dog noses quickly.
Um, so I wish we had a quick wayof diagnosing that disease
that's easy, and a way of beingable to clean out all of those
fungal plaques efficiently andquickly.
(18:25):
It takes us hours sometimes, um,and we really don't have a good
gadget for doing that yet.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Well, Jane, thank you so much for being here
today, for joining us.
We always appreciate whenever wehave you on the podcast, and
also we love reading yourarticles too.
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
Thank you so much for the opportunity to comment.
SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
And for our listeners and viewers, you can
read Jane's article in JAFMA.
I'm Sarah Wright here at LisaFortier.
Be sure to tune in next week foranother episode of Veterinary
Vertex.
And don't forget to leave us arating and review on Apple
Podcasts or wherever you listen.
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