August 22, 2025 • 24 mins
Salmonellosis is far more than just a risk from undercooked burgers. In this eye-opening conversation, wildlife health experts Dr. Sonia Hernandez and Dr. Kim Perez reveal how everyday environmental exposures may pose significant yet underrecognized transmission hazards for this dangerous bacteria.
The researchers unpack their fascinating studies of white ibises adapting to urban environments in Florida and the persistence of Salmonella on shared surfaces like picnic tables and bird feeders. Their findings challenge conventional wisdom about disease transmission, showing how dried bird droppings can harbor infectious bacteria long after they appear harmless. "A lot of times we see these fecal stains and we think, well, they're not wet, they're not fresh, but they don't necessarily have to be in order to still have infectious Salmonella in them," Dr. Hernandez explains.
The conversation explores surprising discoveries about immunity patterns in young birds and the concerning ineffectiveness of antimicrobial coatings on bird feeders. The researchers discuss how their work sits at the intersection of wildlife conservation, public health, and veterinary medicine—exemplifying the One Health approach. They raise important questions about wildlife feeding practices, noting that while bird feeders bring joy to many, they may create disease hotspots affecting not just birds but also squirrels, raccoons, household pets, and ultimately humans.
For veterinarians and the public alike, this episode offers practical insights into reducing Salmonella risks without sacrificing our connections to wildlife and pets. The key takeaway? Simple habits like handwashing after outdoor activities or pet handling remain our best defense against this widespread pathogen. As Dr. Hernandez notes, "I think when I was little, I was always taught wash your hands before you eat. I think we should bring that back."
JAVMA article: https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.25.03.0144
AJVR article: https://doi.org/10.2460/ajvr.24.12.0397
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Greenies Smart Essentials dryfood delivers complete, balanced
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Greenies Supplements, developedby a team of PhD animal
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(00:22):
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Learn more at greeniescom.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
You're listening to Veterinary Vertex, a podcast of
the AVMA Journals.
In this episode, we chat aboutsalmonellosis with our guests
Sonia Hernandez and Kim Perez.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome listeners.
I'm Editor-in-Chief LisaFortier, and I'm joined by
Associate Editor Sarah Wright.
Today, on this episode, we haveSonia and repeat guest Kim
joining us.
Sonia and Kim I was fascinatedby these two articles and, as a
kid who picnicked all the time,I can't believe I didn't get
sick.
So really appreciate youcontributing these articles and
(01:09):
for taking the time to be withus here today.
Thanks very much, it's apleasure.
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All right, let's dive right in.
So, sonia, your Javmon AJBRCurrent Sin 1 Health articles
discuss how salmonellosis is asignificant public health threat
.
Please share with our listenersthe background on these
articles.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I think the foundation for both of these
articles is the fact that for along time we've known that
salmonellosis in people is afood safety issue, and I think
that public health agencies andthe CDC have done a great job of
addressing that aspect of itwith education, and
veterinarians have also been areal big part of disseminating
(01:51):
education on how to keep peoplehealthy with regards to
preparing eggs and meat, etc.
But we've also known, and havegrown to really understand, that
salmonellosis can also beacquired through animal contact,
and less perhaps well-known isthrough environmental contact,
(02:13):
and that's the piece that wewanted to contribute to with
various different studies isthat growing number of human
salmonellosis cases that areacquired in ways that are not so
clear to public health agencies.
By the way, these articles arealso about the fact that
salmonella is a one health issueand thus salmonella also
(02:37):
impacts animals significantly,and of course, we care about
animals.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel like the case that always comes to mind is
like the little boy goes to thepet store, picks out a turtle
that he wants, gives the turtlea kiss and you're like, no,
don't do it.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
I have such a question, a picture in one of my
PowerPoints about salmonellosis.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh yeah.
So, Kim, what are the importanttake-home messages from these
articles?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, so I think these two studies really
highlight that salmonella, youknow, cannot only circulate
amongst wild birds, like thewhite ibis, you know, but they
can also persist on sharedenvironmental surfaces.
As you know, dr Hernandezalluded to creating
opportunities, really niceopportunities for a transmission
.
So together these findingsreally reinforce that
(03:23):
environmental contamination bywildlife feces.
You know, specifically birds inour case, is a real and
underestimated exposure routefor salmonella.
And even without, you know,clinical signs in birds,
asymptomatic shedding can stillpresent transmission hazards to
pets and humans and otherwildlife as well.
They'll present transmissionhazards to pets and humans and
(03:43):
other wildlife as well.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, I think it's really quite fascinating to
think the picnic table part iswhat really.
I was like whoa, that's crazy.
It just says wash your hands,wash your hands, wash your hands
.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Well, and also just kind of look right, because a
lot of times we see these fecalstains and we think, well, you
know, they're not wet, they'renot fresh, but, like we
demonstrated, they don'tnecessarily have to be in order
to still have infectioussalmonella in them.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Very good, point, Sonia, while I have you.
What sparked your interest insalmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Wow, you know, I think you know I care a lot
about animal health, right, andmy whole career has been devoted
to wildlife health, andsalmonella is not one of those
diseases that necessarily killsadult birds, except for some
very interesting circumstances,and two of them are really like
(04:40):
at the intersection of where Iwork.
So we started studying whiteibises 16 years ago, basically
because we wanted to know howcome this really cool but very
unusual bird would adapt tourban settings, and we noticed
that they left a lot of feces onthe sidewalk.
(05:00):
We were very concerned thatthey would adapt to cities,
which was great for them becausethey were losing their natural
wetlands, and that people wouldtolerate them for a time and
they do, they feed them and theyenjoy them but that they could
maybe transition over tobecoming pest species because
they were leaving so much feceson the sidewalk.
(05:21):
So we wanted to get ahead ofthat and kind of look at it,
understand the real risk andthen educate people about it, so
that we don't end up having tomanage these birds in ways that
later become a real problem forthe birds themselves.
Right, Like the way that, forexample, Australian ibises are
managed.
(05:42):
They've become a real problem insome places in Australia they
go around to garbage cans, theysteal food from people.
They're noisy, they're dirtyand people have started to
associate them negatively.
So we wanted to kind of getahead of that issue, at least
with the ibis, Now with the birdfeeders.
(06:02):
That's really, you know,simultaneously both a human
health problem but also a birdproblem.
Tens of thousands of songbirdsdie every year from
salmonellosis across the countryand every once in a while we
get these huge mortalityoutbreaks that almost blanket
the entire nation.
So I had an interest in that.
(06:24):
So it's both sort of like anecological conservation issue
but also a wildlife healthinterest for me.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point Resource
provisioning maybe we can getyou to write about that as well.
And, in addition, to wash yourhands, stop feeding the wildlife
.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Yeah, it's never good for either wildlife or people
when we have animals that gethabituated to getting fed.
I mean, you've heard the oldadage like a fed bear is a dead
bear.
You could probably say the samething about populations of
birds that get accustomed tobeing fed in cities, for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Or beaches.
Kim, what sparked your interestin salmonellosis?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, so I've always had an interest in the interface
of wildlife, livestock, publichealth and the environment, and
luckily for me, salmonella kindof sits right at that
intersection and it's a pathogenthat can circulate in wild
animals.
However, it can also betransmitted to pets and people
and cause serious illness, as DrHernandez mentioned.
(07:29):
And what specifically drew meinto salmonellosis is the fact
that it isn't just a foodborneissue, it's a one health issue.
So in our work we've seenfirsthand how simple actions
like putting up a bird feeder orfeeding ibis at a park can
unintentionally set the stagefor disease transmission.
So studying salmonella helps usask bigger questions about
(07:52):
urban ecology, wildlife behaviorand how human activity really
shapes pathogen dynamics.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
There's two key opinion leaders in this area.
You outlined some of theimportant take-home messages,
but always, even if you're a keyopinion leader in this area,
you outlined some of theimportant take-home messages,
but always, even if you're a keyopinion leader, when you pull
all this information together,there's something that surprises
you.
So for either one of you to gofirst Sonia, maybe you what was
the most surprising finding fromthis set of articles?
Oh boy.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I mean, you know, lisa and I, anytime you do
science, you think you've gotthe answers, and then you get
surprised by so many differentthings.
I mean, I'll talk about thewhite ibis study first and then
Kim perhaps can chime in on theother one, but I will say first
of all, we captured ibises fromthe Everglades young ibis and we
(08:42):
knew that the adults werereservoirs.
We knew that the prevalence ofadult ibis was about 27%, but we
did not expect that when wecaught baby ibises and brought
them in for an infection trial,that they would already be
shedding salmonella at such highprevalences, shedding
(09:07):
salmonella at such highprevalences.
What was interesting, though,is that even though they were
shedding after they matured,after their GI microbiome
matured, then they stoppedshedding altogether.
So then we thought, okay, good,you know, we waited, and we had
a long, long period where nobird was positive for salmonella
.
When we went to go infect themwhich is how you do infection
(09:28):
trials with appropriate numbersof salmonella typhimurium and
especially got a pathogenicstrain of salmonella typhimurium
, we could not infect them.
Yeah, there weren't that manybirds that we could successfully
infect, and that kind ofsurprised me.
I mean, if you read aboutsalmonella and immunity to
(09:51):
salmonella.
The evidence for it is reallyscant, even in people, yeah.
But we know, we suspect, thatat the cellular level, like at
the intestinal level, thereprobably is more immunity than
one thinks, and so I wonder ifthat was what happened with our
birds.
Right, we know we did all thequality control to make sure
(10:15):
that the salmonella we had wasinfectious.
We checked before and after,and yet we still did not get
that many birds.
So it really does give me hopeto the fact that if birds are
exposed with low levels early on, then maybe that means immunity
for them later.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, huge opportunity, Kim.
How about you?
What surprised you in thesearticles?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Yeah, so for me, in our American Journal of
Veterinary Research, oursalmonella persistence trial, I
was really surprised that theantimicrobial coating that we
utilize on our feeders didn'treally significantly reduce
salmonella persistence.
Dr Hernandez mentioned earlieras well just the fact that
(11:04):
salmonella can persist on thesevarious surfaces for such a long
time, even if it looks as shesaid.
You know it's a little spotthat's on the picnic table and
you may think, oh it's.
You know it's dried up, it'sprobably been there for you know
, a few days.
There's still something,there's the potential that
something still could be there.
So those were really the twokind of wow factors for me with
(11:27):
our studies.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Definitely very timely, especially with it being
summer and people going out forpicnics and things.
So hopefully people that arelistening to this are just hyper
aware now of definitely publichealth concerns when they're out
in these environments.
So, sonia, what are the nextsteps to research in
salmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Oh, wow, we have so many things.
I mean, we are right nowpreparing another manuscript in
which we actually looked atnestlings that are infected by
both salmonella and vibrio.
There are some differentdynamics going on between vibrio
and salmonella and Vibrio.
There are some differentdynamics going on between Vibrio
(12:05):
and Salmonella, especially forcoastal white ibises in Florida.
But Kim's work is probably alsoreally relevant.
So she's currently working onbird feeder Salmonellosis and
looking at both the prevalenceand also, like, all of the
(12:26):
dynamics that go on at the birdfeeder.
And, surprise, surprise, we'reprobably not going to find an
avian reservoir, but ratherwe're going to find that the
bird feeder itself is the issue.
And you know wildlife healthpeople, we've always thought
(12:46):
that was the case, that birdfeeders are a focus of
transmission and of persistence,and, of course, we struggle
with the concept of whether torecommend bird feeding or not.
As far as salmonella isconcerned, it's probably an
issue.
So we'll continue to look atthese things for years to come.
(13:08):
There's so many other questionswe haven't answered.
I mean, why type of merium andwhy some birds die and others
don't?
I mean, those are the kinds ofthings that we would like to
know too.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
What about the squirrels that eat more of the
bird food than the birds?
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Yeah, Kim, you want to say something about the
squirrels.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah, so we did a I would say, a pilot trial.
How many years ago was this,sonia Probably 2022 now where we
actually captured squirrels andwe found a decent persistence,
uh in in some of the squirrelpopulations.
(13:45):
But that, uh, I'll tease it alittle bit.
That paper is uh on my docketto to come out, so hopefully I
can get that written up at somepoint between field work and and
uh lab time and and office time.
So, uh, maybe you'll have usback on for for that paper.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
I mean, squirrels, like most rodents, are really
good at maintaining salmonella,but I'm not sure that they're
the reservoir either, becausetheir serotypes don't match what
the birds have.
And so then that leaves you thequestion with what about all
the deer that come?
What about all the raccoons?
I mean, we had done work onraccoons and possums years ago,
and their prevalence is alwaysabove 50%, and they do sometimes
(14:27):
shed type femurium, but notalways.
They have a huge stereotypediversity, so the answer is
probably not any one thing.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
My background is aquatic.
So as soon as you said vibrio,my ears perked up a little bit.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
I was like oh, not that one, my background is
aquatic, so as soon as you saidVibrio, my ears perked up a
little bit.
I was like oh, not that oneno-transcript.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, definitely something to keep an eye on, for
sure, and for those of you justjoining us, we're discussing
salmonellosis with our guestsSonia and Kim hey.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Sonia over to you.
How does your training and yourprevious experience help you to
write these articles and reallyeven get across the finish line
?
What advice do you have forpeople who are in the field work
trying to balance?
You talked about earlier.
I have another manuscript.
How do you balance all thatwork and really get the work all
the way done and shared withthe public?
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Wow, that's a lot.
I mean, my training was firstas a clinical wildlife
veterinarian.
I think that understanding howan animal goes from being
healthy to being sick and thenhaving interventions that you
can make them healthy again hasbeen extremely helpful for me.
But I am a researcher now and Ihave a PhD in ecology and I
(15:55):
think putting together both thepiece and the foundation from
veterinary school andunderstanding the foundations of
pathology and, you know,disease on top of the ecological
details is really what gave methe edge or the advantage in
understanding systems out innature, right?
(16:18):
So that's the piece abouttraining.
I'm sorry.
What was the second part?
Oh, how do I get it all done?
Oh, I don't know.
Ai.
No just kidding.
How do I get it all done?
I have to say that my graduatestudents are extremely dedicated
.
Kim is probably one of thosegold star students who really
(16:40):
understands how to prioritizethe time, how to respond to
things in the way that should bedone, how to get the work done
regardless of the fieldconditions and lab conditions.
I mean, she just recently had amajor lab disaster with, you
know, a leaky roof, and she wasable to get over that, and field
(17:01):
conditions are extremelychallenging and unpredictable.
So I think you have to build inthe time and the space with the
type of work that we do forplan B, c and D all the time.
I love it.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Kim, how about you?
Yeah, so my previous work withone of my mentors really helped
me understand the significanceand interactions between animals
and at the time it wasprimarily dairy cattle humans
and the environment and whatimpacts each one have on one
another and disease dynamics.
And now I'm a PhD student underDr Sonia Hernandez and Dr Aaron
(17:40):
Lipp and you know my graduatework has really provided me with
the knowledge and perspectiveand the passion for wildlife
health because, again, I was inthe livestock community and
environmental systems with DrAaron Lipp.
So I would say just workingwith the College of Public
(18:01):
Health and Warnell School ofForestry and Natural Resources
really highlighted thissignificance.
You know both the good and thebad that organisms can have on
these various systems.
And then I guess that is kindof like my long-winded way of
saying that you know working andthinking in all these various
systems really opens your eyesand your mind and allows you to
(18:24):
formulate these questions andsee things from a different
perspective.
You know which helps writethese articles and which helps
get field work done and lab workdone and helps you pivot and
just keep going and alwayshaving your eye on the prize and
the goal which is to produce.
You know good science and youknow hopefully make an impact.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I hear a lot of the trending word perseverance in
both of you too.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yes, you have to have a lot of it, I think, to get to
where you know Dr Hernandez is,and you know, even in grad
school, you have to just putthat cap on and keep going.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
And perseverance builds resilience, which I would
say is another major characteror soft skill to have if you're
going to work in wildlife.
Health, very well said.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Now next set of questions is going to be very
important for our listeners, andthe first one is going to deal
with the veterinarian'sperspective.
So, Sonia, what is one piece ofinformation the veterinarian
should know about salmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
I think salmonellosis , you know, in vet school, is
taught to us as a food safetyissue and I think that we need
to understand as veterinariansthat animal contact with a huge
variety of animals can lead topeople getting salmonella, but
also that it can be easilytransmitted among animals, in
(19:49):
the clinic, in the wild, in thehome.
And I think it's important forus to sort of teach people very
basic things.
We assume that peopleunderstand that maybe you should
need a sandwich right after youhandle your pet turtle, or that
if you're outside cleaning yourbird feeder that you should
(20:11):
really make sure to wash yourhands afterwards.
But these are not necessarilyassumptions that we should go by
.
We should really understandthat we play a role in educating
people and that they appreciatethat.
And there's little like thingsLike, for example, your cat goes
(20:31):
outside and catches a sick bird, it can come back and lay on
your bed.
It can become a reservoir ofsalmonella, it can pass it on to
your dog, to the other cats oron to you.
So you know lots of lessons,lots of little nuances that are
important.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
What I like most about that is don't blame the
burger all the time that's rightand on the other side of the
relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
what's one thing that clients or the general public
should know about salmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Well, I think you know, I think I said some of it.
I think that we don't want toscare people away from having
animal experiences.
We just want them to make surethat they understand that they
need to wash their hands afterthey play with turtles, baby
birds, and that salmonellacollects in certain environments
(21:30):
you know, bird feeders, areasthat have feces from animals and
things like that and always to,just if you're in doubt, wash
your hands.
I think when I was little, Iwas always taught wash your
hands before you eat.
I think we should bring thatback.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Very good.
As we wind down a little bit,we we like to ask a little bit
more of a fun question.
So we'll start with you, kim.
What is the oldest or mostinteresting item on your desk or
in your desk drawer?
And, if you have it, feel freeto show it on the camera.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
So it's definitely the most interesting thing that
I have.
I don't have it with me becauseI'm in my other office, but I
have somewhat inherited alife-size cutout of Dean
Winchester from Supernatural andhe kind of is right in the
center of my desk.
We have little cubicles and hesits right atop of my book ledge
(22:25):
and he stares down at me tomake sure that I am doing all of
my my tasks properly.
So he is kind of like theoverseer of the office and kind
of the mascot of the lip lab incertain ways.
So that's I don't know how, buthe just migrated over to my
desk one day and he stayed theresince.
So that's do you dress him upfor Christmas?
(22:47):
He always has lights on him, sohe definitely always has
something.
But that's actually good.
I think we'll do maybe aChristmas hat for Christmas,
halloween, halloween, a goodmask for Halloween.
I think that would be great.
I actually like that idea.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Sonia, how about you?
So again, you caught me in myother office.
This is kind of a weird weekfor us at UGA, but anyhow, I
have a couple of things in mydesk drawer that remind me of
what I one of the reasons why Iwent to vet school, and that's
to work with wildlife, and thoseare darts.
I have a lot of darts sittingon my desk and that's because I
(23:25):
remember, you know, as awildlife, having to have my dart
gun and my dart box filled withdarts for a variety of
different things, and I stillmiss all the time that I used to
spend in the field, which nowmy grad students get to do.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, my cat actually .
I think heard you talkingearlier about the cats.
If you're watching the video,you probably saw her come over.
I think, she's now ourunofficial third co-host, but
thank you so much, sonia and Kim.
We appreciate you being heretoday and also for authoring
these great Current.
Some what Health articles.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Thanks so much for the opportunity.
It was great, great to talk toyou guys and thanks again for
highlighting One Health which isso important.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Thank you, guys for having us and thanks again for
highlighting One Health which isso important.
Thank you, guys for having usand to our listeners.
You can read Sonia and Kim'sarticles in Javma and AJPR.
I'm Sarah Wright with LisaFortier.
Be on the lookout for nextweek's episode and don't forget
to leave us a rating and reviewon Apple Podcasts or whatever
platform you listen to.
From the makers of vet-recommended Greenies dental
treats comes an easy way tosupport your dog's wellness.
Greenies Smart Essentials dryfood delivers complete, balanced
nutrition with science-backedrecipes.
Greenies Supplements, developedby a team of PhD animal
nutritionists, offers options tohelp support healthy joints,
(00:22):
digestion and more, Whether it'smealtime or mobility support.
Greenies helps you care foryour dog from the inside out.
Learn more at greeniescom.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
You're listening to Veterinary Vertex, a podcast of
the AVMA Journals.
In this episode, we chat aboutsalmonellosis with our guests
Sonia Hernandez and Kim Perez.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome listeners.
I'm Editor-in-Chief LisaFortier, and I'm joined by
Associate Editor Sarah Wright.
Today, on this episode, we haveSonia and repeat guest Kim
joining us.
Sonia and Kim I was fascinatedby these two articles and, as a
kid who picnicked all the time,I can't believe I didn't get
sick.
So really appreciate youcontributing these articles and
(01:09):
for taking the time to be withus here today.
Thanks very much, it's apleasure.
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All right, let's dive right in.
So, sonia, your Javmon AJBRCurrent Sin 1 Health articles
discuss how salmonellosis is asignificant public health threat
.
Please share with our listenersthe background on these
articles.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I think the foundation for both of these
articles is the fact that for along time we've known that
salmonellosis in people is afood safety issue, and I think
that public health agencies andthe CDC have done a great job of
addressing that aspect of itwith education, and
veterinarians have also been areal big part of disseminating
(01:51):
education on how to keep peoplehealthy with regards to
preparing eggs and meat, etc.
But we've also known, and havegrown to really understand, that
salmonellosis can also beacquired through animal contact,
and less perhaps well-known isthrough environmental contact,
(02:13):
and that's the piece that wewanted to contribute to with
various different studies isthat growing number of human
salmonellosis cases that areacquired in ways that are not so
clear to public health agencies.
By the way, these articles arealso about the fact that
salmonella is a one health issueand thus salmonella also
(02:37):
impacts animals significantly,and of course, we care about
animals.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel like the case that always comes to mind is
like the little boy goes to thepet store, picks out a turtle
that he wants, gives the turtlea kiss and you're like, no,
don't do it.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
I have such a question, a picture in one of my
PowerPoints about salmonellosis.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh yeah.
So, Kim, what are the importanttake-home messages from these
articles?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, so I think these two studies really
highlight that salmonella, youknow, cannot only circulate
amongst wild birds, like thewhite ibis, you know, but they
can also persist on sharedenvironmental surfaces.
As you know, dr Hernandezalluded to creating
opportunities, really niceopportunities for a transmission
.
So together these findingsreally reinforce that
(03:23):
environmental contamination bywildlife feces.
You know, specifically birds inour case, is a real and
underestimated exposure routefor salmonella.
And even without, you know,clinical signs in birds,
asymptomatic shedding can stillpresent transmission hazards to
pets and humans and otherwildlife as well.
They'll present transmissionhazards to pets and humans and
(03:43):
other wildlife as well.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, I think it's really quite fascinating to
think the picnic table part iswhat really.
I was like whoa, that's crazy.
It just says wash your hands,wash your hands, wash your hands
.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Well, and also just kind of look right, because a
lot of times we see these fecalstains and we think, well, you
know, they're not wet, they'renot fresh, but, like we
demonstrated, they don'tnecessarily have to be in order
to still have infectioussalmonella in them.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Very good, point, Sonia, while I have you.
What sparked your interest insalmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Wow, you know, I think you know I care a lot
about animal health, right, andmy whole career has been devoted
to wildlife health, andsalmonella is not one of those
diseases that necessarily killsadult birds, except for some
very interesting circumstances,and two of them are really like
(04:40):
at the intersection of where Iwork.
So we started studying whiteibises 16 years ago, basically
because we wanted to know howcome this really cool but very
unusual bird would adapt tourban settings, and we noticed
that they left a lot of feces onthe sidewalk.
(05:00):
We were very concerned thatthey would adapt to cities,
which was great for them becausethey were losing their natural
wetlands, and that people wouldtolerate them for a time and
they do, they feed them and theyenjoy them but that they could
maybe transition over tobecoming pest species because
they were leaving so much feceson the sidewalk.
(05:21):
So we wanted to get ahead ofthat and kind of look at it,
understand the real risk andthen educate people about it, so
that we don't end up having tomanage these birds in ways that
later become a real problem forthe birds themselves.
Right, Like the way that, forexample, Australian ibises are
managed.
(05:42):
They've become a real problem insome places in Australia they
go around to garbage cans, theysteal food from people.
They're noisy, they're dirtyand people have started to
associate them negatively.
So we wanted to kind of getahead of that issue, at least
with the ibis, Now with the birdfeeders.
(06:02):
That's really, you know,simultaneously both a human
health problem but also a birdproblem.
Tens of thousands of songbirdsdie every year from
salmonellosis across the countryand every once in a while we
get these huge mortalityoutbreaks that almost blanket
the entire nation.
So I had an interest in that.
(06:24):
So it's both sort of like anecological conservation issue
but also a wildlife healthinterest for me.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point Resource
provisioning maybe we can getyou to write about that as well.
And, in addition, to wash yourhands, stop feeding the wildlife
.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Yeah, it's never good for either wildlife or people
when we have animals that gethabituated to getting fed.
I mean, you've heard the oldadage like a fed bear is a dead
bear.
You could probably say the samething about populations of
birds that get accustomed tobeing fed in cities, for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Or beaches.
Kim, what sparked your interestin salmonellosis?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, so I've always had an interest in the interface
of wildlife, livestock, publichealth and the environment, and
luckily for me, salmonella kindof sits right at that
intersection and it's a pathogenthat can circulate in wild
animals.
However, it can also betransmitted to pets and people
and cause serious illness, as DrHernandez mentioned.
(07:29):
And what specifically drew meinto salmonellosis is the fact
that it isn't just a foodborneissue, it's a one health issue.
So in our work we've seenfirsthand how simple actions
like putting up a bird feeder orfeeding ibis at a park can
unintentionally set the stagefor disease transmission.
So studying salmonella helps usask bigger questions about
(07:52):
urban ecology, wildlife behaviorand how human activity really
shapes pathogen dynamics.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
There's two key opinion leaders in this area.
You outlined some of theimportant take-home messages,
but always, even if you're a keyopinion leader in this area,
you outlined some of theimportant take-home messages,
but always, even if you're a keyopinion leader, when you pull
all this information together,there's something that surprises
you.
So for either one of you to gofirst Sonia, maybe you what was
the most surprising finding fromthis set of articles?
Oh boy.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I mean, you know, lisa and I, anytime you do
science, you think you've gotthe answers, and then you get
surprised by so many differentthings.
I mean, I'll talk about thewhite ibis study first and then
Kim perhaps can chime in on theother one, but I will say first
of all, we captured ibises fromthe Everglades young ibis and we
(08:42):
knew that the adults werereservoirs.
We knew that the prevalence ofadult ibis was about 27%, but we
did not expect that when wecaught baby ibises and brought
them in for an infection trial,that they would already be
shedding salmonella at such highprevalences, shedding
(09:07):
salmonella at such highprevalences.
What was interesting, though,is that even though they were
shedding after they matured,after their GI microbiome
matured, then they stoppedshedding altogether.
So then we thought, okay, good,you know, we waited, and we had
a long, long period where nobird was positive for salmonella
.
When we went to go infect themwhich is how you do infection
(09:28):
trials with appropriate numbersof salmonella typhimurium and
especially got a pathogenicstrain of salmonella typhimurium
, we could not infect them.
Yeah, there weren't that manybirds that we could successfully
infect, and that kind ofsurprised me.
I mean, if you read aboutsalmonella and immunity to
(09:51):
salmonella.
The evidence for it is reallyscant, even in people, yeah.
But we know, we suspect, thatat the cellular level, like at
the intestinal level, thereprobably is more immunity than
one thinks, and so I wonder ifthat was what happened with our
birds.
Right, we know we did all thequality control to make sure
(10:15):
that the salmonella we had wasinfectious.
We checked before and after,and yet we still did not get
that many birds.
So it really does give me hopeto the fact that if birds are
exposed with low levels early on, then maybe that means immunity
for them later.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, huge opportunity, Kim.
How about you?
What surprised you in thesearticles?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Yeah, so for me, in our American Journal of
Veterinary Research, oursalmonella persistence trial, I
was really surprised that theantimicrobial coating that we
utilize on our feeders didn'treally significantly reduce
salmonella persistence.
Dr Hernandez mentioned earlieras well just the fact that
(11:04):
salmonella can persist on thesevarious surfaces for such a long
time, even if it looks as shesaid.
You know it's a little spotthat's on the picnic table and
you may think, oh it's.
You know it's dried up, it'sprobably been there for you know
, a few days.
There's still something,there's the potential that
something still could be there.
So those were really the twokind of wow factors for me with
(11:27):
our studies.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Definitely very timely, especially with it being
summer and people going out forpicnics and things.
So hopefully people that arelistening to this are just hyper
aware now of definitely publichealth concerns when they're out
in these environments.
So, sonia, what are the nextsteps to research in
salmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Oh, wow, we have so many things.
I mean, we are right nowpreparing another manuscript in
which we actually looked atnestlings that are infected by
both salmonella and vibrio.
There are some differentdynamics going on between vibrio
and salmonella and Vibrio.
There are some differentdynamics going on between Vibrio
(12:05):
and Salmonella, especially forcoastal white ibises in Florida.
But Kim's work is probably alsoreally relevant.
So she's currently working onbird feeder Salmonellosis and
looking at both the prevalenceand also, like, all of the
(12:26):
dynamics that go on at the birdfeeder.
And, surprise, surprise, we'reprobably not going to find an
avian reservoir, but ratherwe're going to find that the
bird feeder itself is the issue.
And you know wildlife healthpeople, we've always thought
(12:46):
that was the case, that birdfeeders are a focus of
transmission and of persistence,and, of course, we struggle
with the concept of whether torecommend bird feeding or not.
As far as salmonella isconcerned, it's probably an
issue.
So we'll continue to look atthese things for years to come.
(13:08):
There's so many other questionswe haven't answered.
I mean, why type of merium andwhy some birds die and others
don't?
I mean, those are the kinds ofthings that we would like to
know too.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
What about the squirrels that eat more of the
bird food than the birds?
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Yeah, Kim, you want to say something about the
squirrels.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah, so we did a I would say, a pilot trial.
How many years ago was this,sonia Probably 2022 now where we
actually captured squirrels andwe found a decent persistence,
uh in in some of the squirrelpopulations.
(13:45):
But that, uh, I'll tease it alittle bit.
That paper is uh on my docketto to come out, so hopefully I
can get that written up at somepoint between field work and and
uh lab time and and office time.
So, uh, maybe you'll have usback on for for that paper.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
I mean, squirrels, like most rodents, are really
good at maintaining salmonella,but I'm not sure that they're
the reservoir either, becausetheir serotypes don't match what
the birds have.
And so then that leaves you thequestion with what about all
the deer that come?
What about all the raccoons?
I mean, we had done work onraccoons and possums years ago,
and their prevalence is alwaysabove 50%, and they do sometimes
(14:27):
shed type femurium, but notalways.
They have a huge stereotypediversity, so the answer is
probably not any one thing.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
My background is aquatic.
So as soon as you said vibrio,my ears perked up a little bit.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
I was like oh, not that one, my background is
aquatic, so as soon as you saidVibrio, my ears perked up a
little bit.
I was like oh, not that oneno-transcript.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, definitely something to keep an eye on, for
sure, and for those of you justjoining us, we're discussing
salmonellosis with our guestsSonia and Kim hey.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Sonia over to you.
How does your training and yourprevious experience help you to
write these articles and reallyeven get across the finish line
?
What advice do you have forpeople who are in the field work
trying to balance?
You talked about earlier.
I have another manuscript.
How do you balance all thatwork and really get the work all
the way done and shared withthe public?
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Wow, that's a lot.
I mean, my training was firstas a clinical wildlife
veterinarian.
I think that understanding howan animal goes from being
healthy to being sick and thenhaving interventions that you
can make them healthy again hasbeen extremely helpful for me.
But I am a researcher now and Ihave a PhD in ecology and I
(15:55):
think putting together both thepiece and the foundation from
veterinary school andunderstanding the foundations of
pathology and, you know,disease on top of the ecological
details is really what gave methe edge or the advantage in
understanding systems out innature, right?
(16:18):
So that's the piece abouttraining.
I'm sorry.
What was the second part?
Oh, how do I get it all done?
Oh, I don't know.
Ai.
No just kidding.
How do I get it all done?
I have to say that my graduatestudents are extremely dedicated
.
Kim is probably one of thosegold star students who really
(16:40):
understands how to prioritizethe time, how to respond to
things in the way that should bedone, how to get the work done
regardless of the fieldconditions and lab conditions.
I mean, she just recently had amajor lab disaster with, you
know, a leaky roof, and she wasable to get over that, and field
(17:01):
conditions are extremelychallenging and unpredictable.
So I think you have to build inthe time and the space with the
type of work that we do forplan B, c and D all the time.
I love it.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Kim, how about you?
Yeah, so my previous work withone of my mentors really helped
me understand the significanceand interactions between animals
and at the time it wasprimarily dairy cattle humans
and the environment and whatimpacts each one have on one
another and disease dynamics.
And now I'm a PhD student underDr Sonia Hernandez and Dr Aaron
(17:40):
Lipp and you know my graduatework has really provided me with
the knowledge and perspectiveand the passion for wildlife
health because, again, I was inthe livestock community and
environmental systems with DrAaron Lipp.
So I would say just workingwith the College of Public
(18:01):
Health and Warnell School ofForestry and Natural Resources
really highlighted thissignificance.
You know both the good and thebad that organisms can have on
these various systems.
And then I guess that is kindof like my long-winded way of
saying that you know working andthinking in all these various
systems really opens your eyesand your mind and allows you to
(18:24):
formulate these questions andsee things from a different
perspective.
You know which helps writethese articles and which helps
get field work done and lab workdone and helps you pivot and
just keep going and alwayshaving your eye on the prize and
the goal which is to produce.
You know good science and youknow hopefully make an impact.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I hear a lot of the trending word perseverance in
both of you too.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yes, you have to have a lot of it, I think, to get to
where you know Dr Hernandez is,and you know, even in grad
school, you have to just putthat cap on and keep going.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
And perseverance builds resilience, which I would
say is another major characteror soft skill to have if you're
going to work in wildlife.
Health, very well said.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Now next set of questions is going to be very
important for our listeners, andthe first one is going to deal
with the veterinarian'sperspective.
So, Sonia, what is one piece ofinformation the veterinarian
should know about salmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
I think salmonellosis , you know, in vet school, is
taught to us as a food safetyissue and I think that we need
to understand as veterinariansthat animal contact with a huge
variety of animals can lead topeople getting salmonella, but
also that it can be easilytransmitted among animals, in
(19:49):
the clinic, in the wild, in thehome.
And I think it's important forus to sort of teach people very
basic things.
We assume that peopleunderstand that maybe you should
need a sandwich right after youhandle your pet turtle, or that
if you're outside cleaning yourbird feeder that you should
(20:11):
really make sure to wash yourhands afterwards.
But these are not necessarilyassumptions that we should go by
.
We should really understandthat we play a role in educating
people and that they appreciatethat.
And there's little like thingsLike, for example, your cat goes
(20:31):
outside and catches a sick bird, it can come back and lay on
your bed.
It can become a reservoir ofsalmonella, it can pass it on to
your dog, to the other cats oron to you.
So you know lots of lessons,lots of little nuances that are
important.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
What I like most about that is don't blame the
burger all the time that's rightand on the other side of the
relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
what's one thing that clients or the general public
should know about salmonellosis?
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Well, I think you know, I think I said some of it.
I think that we don't want toscare people away from having
animal experiences.
We just want them to make surethat they understand that they
need to wash their hands afterthey play with turtles, baby
birds, and that salmonellacollects in certain environments
(21:30):
you know, bird feeders, areasthat have feces from animals and
things like that and always to,just if you're in doubt, wash
your hands.
I think when I was little, Iwas always taught wash your
hands before you eat.
I think we should bring thatback.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Very good.
As we wind down a little bit,we we like to ask a little bit
more of a fun question.
So we'll start with you, kim.
What is the oldest or mostinteresting item on your desk or
in your desk drawer?
And, if you have it, feel freeto show it on the camera.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
So it's definitely the most interesting thing that
I have.
I don't have it with me becauseI'm in my other office, but I
have somewhat inherited alife-size cutout of Dean
Winchester from Supernatural andhe kind of is right in the
center of my desk.
We have little cubicles and hesits right atop of my book ledge
(22:25):
and he stares down at me tomake sure that I am doing all of
my my tasks properly.
So he is kind of like theoverseer of the office and kind
of the mascot of the lip lab incertain ways.
So that's I don't know how, buthe just migrated over to my
desk one day and he stayed theresince.
So that's do you dress him upfor Christmas?
(22:47):
He always has lights on him, sohe definitely always has
something.
But that's actually good.
I think we'll do maybe aChristmas hat for Christmas,
halloween, halloween, a goodmask for Halloween.
I think that would be great.
I actually like that idea.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Sonia, how about you?
So again, you caught me in myother office.
This is kind of a weird weekfor us at UGA, but anyhow, I
have a couple of things in mydesk drawer that remind me of
what I one of the reasons why Iwent to vet school, and that's
to work with wildlife, and thoseare darts.
I have a lot of darts sittingon my desk and that's because I
(23:25):
remember, you know, as awildlife, having to have my dart
gun and my dart box filled withdarts for a variety of
different things, and I stillmiss all the time that I used to
spend in the field, which nowmy grad students get to do.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, my cat actually .
I think heard you talkingearlier about the cats.
If you're watching the video,you probably saw her come over.
I think, she's now ourunofficial third co-host, but
thank you so much, sonia and Kim.
We appreciate you being heretoday and also for authoring
these great Current.
Some what Health articles.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Thanks so much for the opportunity.
It was great, great to talk toyou guys and thanks again for
highlighting One Health which isso important.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Thank you, guys for having us and thanks again for
highlighting One Health which isso important.
Thank you, guys for having usand to our listeners.
You can read Sonia and Kim'sarticles in Javma and AJPR.
I'm Sarah Wright with LisaFortier.
Be on the lookout for nextweek's episode and don't forget
to leave us a rating and reviewon Apple Podcasts or whatever
platform you listen to.
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