February 5, 2021 • 54 mins
Chuck Sexton, Jay Borja, Tony Nichols and Melody Sexton take us back to 1990-1991 and recount their experiences during Operation Desert Shield.
Join us at the table for a casual conversation with Veterans from all branches sharing stories, experience and laughs. Refreshingly apolitical.
This podcast is a product of the Flint Hills Veterans Coalition. Visit our website, flinthillsveterans.org, for materials referenced in the podcast. Thanks for listening!
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Episode Transcript
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Melody Sexton (00:08):
Welcome to Vets On The Net. This is a podcast
that's a product at the FlintHills Veterans Coalition. And
we're gathered around the tabletoday, in America's Heartland,
just to tell some stories ofmilitary experiences and share a
laugh. And really, this is justan oral history with a
difference. And I think whenyou're done listening, you'll
hear what the difference is. Sopull up a chair, join us for
(00:31):
episode one. Shield to Storm.
Chuck Sexton (00:33):
It's all about GIs, right?
Melody Sexton (00:35):
Yes, it's about GIs.
Tony Nichols (00:38):
gentle individuals.
Melody Sexton (00:44):
At the table is Chuck Sexton, Jay Borja and Tony
Nichols. And thank you guys foragreeing to do this today. We
appreciate that. Can I ask youto go around starting with Chuck
and introduce yourselves? Tellus where you're from originally?
What branch of service and whatunit you were in during Desert,
desert Shield and Desert Stormand what was your job at that
(01:09):
time and your rank and anythingelse you'd like to add?
Chuck Sexton (01:13):
Okay, I'm Chuck Sexton. I'm originally from New
York. In Desert Shield, I was acaptain. And I was assigned to
the 24th Infantry DivisionSecond Brigade. And what else
did you want me to answer? Whatwas my job? I was the S3 Air for
the Brigade and I was a BrigadeS3 plans officer. And basically,
(01:38):
whatever I was told to do.
Melody Sexton (01:39):
And what does an S3 Air do?
Chuck Sexton (01:41):
Well, it plans air routes. It plans air resupply,
it plans air strike missions forattack helicopters and
coordinates with the Air Forceguys as far as bombing runs and
close air support and basicallyanything that has to do with
air, that's what I did.
Melody Sexton (02:03):
Okay. All right.
How about you, Jay?
Jay Borja (02:06):
I'm Jay Borja. I'm originally from the island of
Guam. I was a draftee went toVietnam. And my last tour was
Desert Storm and Desert Shield.
I'm a 19 Delta which is aArmored Reconnaissance
Specialist. And I was assignedto the First Infantry Division.
First Squadron, Fourth Cavalryat Fort Riley. My job there was
(02:29):
I was the S3. I was the AirLiaison officer for the "1/4
Cav" and I was attached to theAir Force. Well, doing recons
and flybys taking enemy out withthe A 10.
Melody Sexton (02:55):
Oh, the Warthogs, yeah,
Jay Borja (02:57):
I had the A10 pilot with me when I was with the "1/4
Cav".
Melody Sexton (03:02):
Oh, wow. I want to hear more about that. That
was my favorite plane. Yeah, inDesert Storm.
Jay Borja (03:07):
The pilot I was with hated being on the ground
because for some reason, heended up being on the ground and
he was calling into spot reportsfor the ground war.
Melody Sexton (03:20):
The what what are those spa reports? Spot reports.
Spot reports. What's that?
Jay Borja (03:27):
Acronym where they pilot will spot enemies on the
ground and they'll call it in.
They either use a helicopter orA10's to disengage or engage the
enemy.
Melody Sexton (03:42):
Okay. Oh, very cool. Yeah. And Tony?
Tony Nichols (03:47):
Yes. I'm Tony Nichols,
Melody Sexton (03:49):
Yes.
Tony Nichols (03:49):
The Tony Nichols.
I'm from I enlisted in Tampa,Florida. I was in 19 Delta also
during Desert Storm. And I hadgraduated from college. And I
enlisted in the Army. I wantedsome adventure. And I hadn't
even been in the army a year andwe deployed a desert storm and I
(04:10):
was I was a Bradley driverduring the action. M3 Calvary
Fighting Vehicle I was with 3/8Calvary Second Brigade, Third
Armored Division.
Chuck Sexton (04:21):
Yeah. All right.
That was the you were a memberof the I BB D. Inner head.
International Brotherhood ofBradley drivers. It was the
union Bradley drivers at thetime. They're very powerful.
Yes,
Tony Nichols (04:34):
very powerful and very handsome.
Chuck Sexton (04:37):
And he likes long walks on the beach. You forgot
about that one, pina coladas,playing with puppies.
Melody Sexton (04:46):
And my name is Melody Sexton. I'm from St.
Petersburg, Florida, just acrossthe bay from Tony. He lived in
the rich kids section of Tampa.
Yes, I did. And I had beenmarried to Army infantryman. For
seven years had two smallchildren when Desert Storm,
Chuck Sexton (05:03):
Desert Shield
Melody Sexton (05:04):
and Desert Shield. That's true. That's
true. I forgot what we weretalking about today. That's our
topic, right? All right. And Ialso want to acknowledge and
thank our studio audience forbeing here today. And if you
hear any loud noises in thebackground, it's their fault. So
today, we're going to talk aboutDesert Shield. And we're gonna
(05:25):
save Desert Storm for anotherday, another episode. This year,
and it's hard to believe it, isthe 30th anniversary of Desert
Storm, Desert Storm. And so Ithink what we need to do,
because it's been so, I know,because it's been so long, we
need to refresh in people'sminds kind of what was going on
(05:47):
back then. And so set the scenedescribing the events that kind
of brought us into the Gulf in1990. Chuck, you look like you
want to say something?
Chuck Sexton (05:56):
Well you got to think about it. The youngest
Desert Storm veteran now is 49years old, which is kind of wild
because the youngest guy toserve was 19 and Tony was a very
young, very young and nubile 24year old, lean, but so it's 49
(06:16):
which at the time it seems kindof crazy when you look back at
it now but it's been 30 years.
The reason it started and I'llstart this out with I first
heard about iraq doing somethingin Kuwait. I was at Fort Sill at
the time and I was going throughthe Artillery Advanced Course
after I'd done the Infantry oneand whatever I failed
(06:44):
Well, I was going to the theArtillery Advanced Course I
remember watching it on the onthe news and the big thing on
the news was watching the theRussian Hip helicopters or the
Iraqi Russian Hip helicoptersflying into Kuwait City. And
it's like, okay, this isn'tgonna last This is this isn't
gonna last and we were in ourlast, I think last two weeks of
the course. So it's not gonnalast it's gonna be over by the
(07:05):
time and it will be done withit. But basically it started,
Mel, with the Iraqi invasion ofKuwait for several, you know, it
depends on whose side you pick,but several reasons. And our
agreement with Kuwait, as wellas agreement with the
international community tosecure the flow of oil from the
(07:26):
Persian Gulf and at the time,Kuwait was the second largest
supplier of Europe's oil andJapan's oil, the first being
Saudi Arabia, the second beingIraq or correction Kuwait. So
that's when that's where it wasstarted for and an agreement You
know, this. No, it wasn't itwasn't Lebowski who said it,
(07:48):
"this aggression shall notstand" that was actually
President George Bush, who saidthe aggression will not stand.
That's when he sent the guys, HWHW Bush, Abu Bush, Abu Bush, he
was the one that said theaggression would not stand. And
in August, he sent the 82ndAirborne and elements of the
(08:09):
24th Infantry Division, as wellas Marine Corps MEU that was
already afloat in the
Melody Sexton (08:15):
Marine Corps.
What?
Chuck Sexton (08:17):
Marine Expeditionary Unit that was
onboard ships that was in theMediterranean at the time,
Jay Borja (08:23):
the Fifth Expedition, Marine Corps
Tony Nichols (08:25):
Yeah, for those who don't know, it's a Brigade
size unit that has its selfcontained helicopter artillery
engineer, reconnaissance,infantry and armor.
Chuck Sexton (08:35):
And the biggest thing they were upset about at
the time was I think they hadjust made the rule for the
Marines that they had to sewname tags on their uniforms. So
that was a, I remember talkingto my Marine buddies other very
upset about that, because priorto that Marines never wore name
tags.
Jay Borja (08:50):
My nephew was in that, he beat me over there.
Melody Sexton (08:54):
Your nephew was on that ship.
Chuck Sexton (08:57):
Five MEU, right.
So, but that's when that's whenit all kind of started for US
involvement. So as I startedthat middle middle, well, first
week, August is when he invadedmiddle of August, is when US
troops started to arrive inSaudi Arabia in order to secure
oil fields, as well as the thenation of Saudi Arabia because
(09:21):
there's a big fear at the timethat he would continue moving. s
Saddam would continue to attacksouth towards Saudi Arabia.
Tony Nichols (09:30):
Now from a German point of view, I was in Germany.
Well, technically. I graduatedfrom basic training in August 15
of 1990. Yeah, when we, yeah.
And so we we came out of basicand I was so tired. I was glad
to be out and my parents droveme home back to Atlanta, from
Fort Knox. And there are peoplehanging American flags. They
have been thinking, hey, great,thank you. You're welcome. Thank
(09:52):
you for your service. No, theythought we were part of the 82nd
that was going down to the portto deploy.
Melody Sexton (09:59):
Oh
Tony Nichols (10:00):
So, I got sent to Germany, and in Germany, we were
all getting ready to deactivateanyway because things are
starting to wind down becausethe the wall had fallen in 1989.
And when I got there, it was solike, relaxed that they put me
in the post office for threemonths. I literally was in the
post office for I was like, whathave i done? I watched the
(10:24):
laser disc in the recruiter'soffice? This is not what I was
gonna do. You had a collegeeducation. I had a college,
which is why
Chuck Sexton (10:33):
a recruiter lied to you, Tony. You believe it?
Top?
Tony Nichols (10:38):
We were saying this for six months in the
desert. Our Commander, ourBattalion Commander, Timothy
Looper had a Battalion formationin like the middle of beginning
of December, and he said, "Myfriends in the Pentagon have
assured me we are not going toDesert Storm.
Next morning, Cover of Stars andStripes "3rd Army Division
(11:02):
deploys to Desert Storm". We'resitting in the middle of
nowhere, "My friends in thePentagon..."
Chuck Sexton (11:09):
Faith in your leadership.
Tony Nichols (11:11):
So they took me out of the post office at the
last minute. Threw me in thescout platoon, like who's this
guy. I yelled at the firstartist that didn't join the army
to work in the post office. Hepunched him private in the mouth
at the Christmas party. So I waslittle afraid of him.
Chuck Sexton (11:27):
rightfully so.
Tony Nichols (11:28):
I was like, I want to go into the scout platoon.
But
Melody Sexton (11:30):
you were really sick of the post office. Manned
up and...
Tony Nichols (11:33):
I mean, think about it. I knew what was coming
down the pipe. The brigade wasgonna deploy. Yeah. And I stay
home and work in the postoffice? The humiliation is
unbearable.
Chuck Sexton (11:43):
Well, later on, I'll tell you a story about the
post office. And what happens
Tony Nichols (11:48):
I've got a story of a guy that stayed back from
my platoon. I'm not making thisup. But we redeployed to guys in
the platoon. When he was onstaff duty, the guy that didn't
deploy, and he got promoted.
They grabbed him and beat himup. I mean, like he had to go to
the hospital. Well.
Chuck Sexton (12:10):
Since we're talking post office, we'd
already been, you said Decemberis when you got the alert. We'd
already been there. I leftArtillery School in the end of
August. And then we went to 24thand went over to to Saudi
Arabia. Well, in about October,November. This is this is a
(12:30):
story you won't hear this is anear mutiny in the United States
Army. This is a mutiny. The,they set our postal clerks at
Dharan back in the city. We wereout in the middle of nowhere by
a little town that has a spotcalled alley wayna. Our postal
clerks set fire to the postaltent because they're smoking and
(12:53):
they destroyed the entire theentirety of the 24th Division,
Christmas, Christmas andThanksgiving mail. Fruitcakes
are gone ham illegally smuggledham was gone. The Listerine
bottles filled with alcohol goneeverything it went up like a
torch. Well, news finally gotback and that's when the
(13:14):
Sergeant Major started armingthe senior noncommissioned
officers started giving themammunition so they could put
down the riot it was it was upnear mutiny that there was a
demand to kill the postalclerks.
No, no,they guys were cranking their
Brads and your M1s. And we'regonna drive back and kill the
postal clerks. And it was a itwas a scab that was picked for
(13:38):
about a month and a half becauseas you know the mail must go
through. So what they continuedto send were portions of letters
that were like burned in half soyou can see like a burnt and
half letter and I remember JohnFinnefrock yes guess his name?
No. That's the illegal that'sthat's when I was a child. I
(14:02):
can't use but finger and thenfill in the blank for that. Oh,
it was terrible. He had a chipon his shoulder But anyway, and
something else he he got aletter that was burned
completely in half to where hedidn't even know who sent it.
Mike, Mike Billingsley got justthe return address. And his name
(14:27):
Mike Billingsley on it anotherbuddy of mine, which like I said
the scab was being picked everyday because if somebody would
get one of these shreds a burnthalf burnt package must have
smelled really good though downand Dharan all the honestly am
burning and chocolate.
Tony Nichols (14:46):
It was World War Two.
I mean, you know,
Chuck Sexton (14:50):
oh yeah,
Tony Nichols (14:51):
we have a crate full of letters. You remember
you? Oh yeah, days withoutletters.
Chuck Sexton (14:58):
Well,
Tony Nichols (14:58):
I'm out here alone, everybody.
Jay Borja (15:00):
Yeah, it's pitiful
Tony Nichols (15:02):
Oh, okay here acting like a jerk
Chuck Sexton (15:06):
Vietnam guys tell us about it, tell us about how
hard we had it
Tony Nichols (15:10):
actually August, my family and I were over in
England, we were on leave mysister in law with me she want
to only wanted to see England.
My wife's British, so we went toEngland with my sister in law.
And you know, we're watching BBCNews. Of course, you know the
(15:32):
invasion of Kuwait and my sisterin law got so panicky because
she knew her son was going to beyou know, involved with that
because of the Marine Corps. Isaid Nah, he's not gonna be
there it's gonna take him awhile to get back in the states.
(15:55):
Oh no, he beat me thereMy friends in the Pentagon have
assured me we will not be goingto Desert Storm...
Jay Borja (16:07):
he was actually had already gotten there but after
the invasion, and I never gotthere till after December
Chuck Sexton (16:18):
you guys got there in December
Jay Borja (16:19):
Yeah.
Tony Nichols (16:20):
We'd left on Christmas Day,
Jay Borja (16:22):
my the my unit left in September October they went
they had the advance partyalready left and they're waiting
for the rest of the unit to getthere. And I got there in
December. Wow. I mean, we wetrapse from the airport to the
(16:49):
shipyard some hotel and we werebeing bounced all over the place
and I finally they
Chuck Sexton (16:58):
the Khobar Towers right?
Jay Borja (16:59):
Yeah. Yeah,
Tony Nichols (17:01):
I stayed there.
Yeah, briefly.
Jay Borja (17:03):
I was in there for like about a day and a half and
you you headed out to thealphaalpha but you got to go
pick up your your crew with fineI need to get out of here
anyway. It Rain I mean
Chuck Sexton (17:17):
rains real bad Oh,
Jay Borja (17:18):
yeah. I said this is reminding me of somewhere, I've
been. And sure enough. My manit was like get up get put on
the bus. And traveling, rain youdon't know if you're gonna get
you know your sink in the sand.
Yeah. No road,
Chuck Sexton (17:39):
but it doesn't rain in the desert though. So it
doesn't get cold there either.
Jay Borja (17:43):
Does this what they say?
Tony Nichols (17:45):
Most of the pictures I have I'm wearing my
parka
Chuck Sexton (17:48):
well with the guys back in the state you know we
kept getting care packages fromthe folks back in the states,.
God bless them, with sunscreenand keep keep cool towels and
all this kind of keep cool stuffand man I remember we had
certain Tebo was one of the NCOthat worked for me and he had a
(18:09):
scarf he was one of the guysbecause we went over and I in in
August, September and thingswere really really hot then his
100 plus and nobody brought anycold weather gear you know we
come from Fort Stewart andnobody brought anything and so
so guys had like we got issuedlong johns so they would walk
around with long johns withouttheir trousers on and he had a
(18:32):
he had a scarf he wanted a GIscarf one of the green gi scarf
so you know with the it's like atube and he for his Christmas
gifts that he gave everybody Itwas so so David Copperfield. He
had cut the scarf into portionsand then sewed by hand so it
made hats. And it was it washorrible to look at but we had a
(18:53):
we had a quilt oh we should havebeen on the internet well yeah
well yeah. Our S2 shot a holethrough the roof with his pistol
cuz he got so nervous but that'sthat's when Tebo took his ammo
away. He got ordered by ourbrigade commander. No more ammo
for him.
Tony Nichols (19:10):
One bullet in his pocket. This is for sure
ourselves andwe packed on on Christmas on
Christmas Eve. And we put our m16 machine guns in the back of
the track. It was snowing. Wehad winter gear. We had plenty
of winter gear. But we got themachine guns. we unload them at
the port. They were all rustedbecause of the wet.
Melody Sexton (19:32):
Oh no. Yeah. So well. We're talking about care
packages in the mail and whythat would people probably cause
people to mutiny. Yes, theydon't understand that. So let's
talk a little bit about theliving conditions once you got
there and tell me where youwere. And what was it like Tony,
where were you wound up? Wheredo you wind up
Tony Nichols (19:51):
again keeping in mind that I was a private yes
driving a track is that we gotto the port first we had to do
is paint them tan color. So wepainted up tan color. We were on
the port for about five days.
And then we got orders pack upand go to this grid establish
observation post on tap lineroad to provide security for
other units coming in. So, and Iwrote about it the first night,
(20:17):
I mean, I'm soaked, which I'mjust soaked. And you know,
because it's raining, and we'rehaving to do all this stuff and
unload and unload. And I'm justsoaking. I'm driving the track
to this location. And I finallyget there tonight. And I got the
nod thing going on. And it'sjust, it's the worst. And we
finally stopped, they set up andI just get on track and I strip
naked. I put on dry clothes andget back in that driver's hole
(20:42):
fall asleep.
Chuck Sexton (20:45):
So you had a driver's hole? That's pretty
good. That's nice.
Tony Nichols (20:48):
A very small one bedroom apartment. Yes.
Melody Sexton (20:51):
What's the drivers hole?
Tony Nichols (20:52):
Well, the Bradley fighting vehicle you are the
turret crews in the turret. Andyou're the front of the vehicle
in the hole. And it's prettyspacious right
Chuck Sexton (21:00):
next to the engine.
Melody Sexton (21:01):
It's just just you in there
Tony Nichols (21:03):
just me in there.
Yeah. And the engines righthere. So when I stop, it's kind
of warm. Yeah, I don't like toleave it and there's a there's a
drain plug on the floor right bymy foot. And I would hold it
open with my foot.
Chuck Sexton (21:14):
You went number one?
Tony Nichols (21:15):
Number one. I mean, literally, I'd been there
for days. If I didn't have to do
Melody Sexton (21:21):
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute. Are you a tanker?
Chuck Sexton (21:24):
Oh, yes.
Melody Sexton (21:30):
That explaineds Yeah, that explains. eHow about
you Jay< Where did you end up?
What was it like?
Like I said, I I was bounced allover Kuwait. Till I finally got
to my unit. And they were out onout on the field already. They
were in the alpha alpha.
What's the alpha alpha?
Jay Borja (21:50):
What's that? It's an assembly area what they call an
assembly. This is Where, A unitjust pick an area on a map.
Yeah. Okay. This is where we'regoing to assemble it goes to
this area. And that's whereeverybody's at.
Melody Sexton (22:06):
So where, you were in Saudi Arabia. So we're
in salt. What? Were there anytowns near you or anything or
Jay Borja (22:12):
No, no.
When you look at something,there's nothing there to see
Melody Sexton (22:20):
don't turn left at the
Chuck Sexton (22:22):
North. North of tap line, right.
Melody Sexton (22:25):
Don't go chasing wild camels. Anyway, we, like I
said we we were just bouncingall over the place. There were
several, That was the lastpeople that came out in the
unit, Fort Riley. And we we gotthere. And I said is there
(22:49):
telephone anyway. And so I
Jay Borja (22:54):
I was attached to the air force. Oh, they had their
own their own phone.
My wife said Where are youcalling me from? Is it don't ask
where I'm at? Because I don'tknow. But I'm calling you
Melody Sexton (23:11):
somewhere and
Jay Borja (23:13):
send me some coffee.
Really never had any coffee. Youknow mousehole was too far away.
You never had coffee. So coffeewas a commodity that you? I
mean, that's a black market.
Right. And so they were sendingme coffee. She had we had
(23:33):
friends and they were puttingcoffee together and pack it and
sending it over there. I beatevery one of them back.
Melody Sexton (23:42):
No,
Jay Borja (23:43):
I beat every one
Tony Nichols (23:44):
of them back.
Chuck Sexton (23:46):
Well, Oh, well.
Tony Nichols (23:49):
I was still receiving care packages when I
retired. Anyone know?
Chuck Sexton (23:57):
Your phone conversations are heartbreaking.
Because a two and a half hourdrive to the closest phone
drive.
Tony Nichols (24:04):
It was about an hour and a half. Two hours. Two
and a half. five tons.
Chuck Sexton (24:08):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
covered completely in a moondust at the end of our Yeah,
from at&t. Yeah, it was nothingfree at the time. drive all the
way we had the phone center whenwe got there. In August, they
set up a phone center they madean agreement with the with the
nation of the Kingdom of SaudiArabia to allow us to tap into
their phone lines. So we're allset. They they built the phone
(24:29):
Center, which they quicklysurrounded it was a divisional
level thing they quicklysurrounded with concertina wire
and their phones on four byfours on a little piece of
plywood, you had regular dial upphones, and they were spaced out
in a in a GP medium generalpurpose medium size tent. Yeah.
(24:50):
And you you you had an MP waswith an M 60 position, standing
there. At the front of them, andyou were in in line, and you'd
line up there, and they had a MPat a stopwatch. Yeah. And you
had exactly 10 minutes on thephone. And there was a two
(25:10):
minute transition time. So theguys that were on the phone
before you got out, and you wentin, and you picked up your
phone, and you hope you got agood one. And the MP would say,
go and that's when you'd startdialing. And I still remember
what you'd always get (inArabic) Afwan Sadiq which was
the first thing that your phonecall didn't go through. Sorry,
sir, your phone, your phone gotso you dial like crazy. And
(25:34):
sometimes, you know, I can'tunderstand why my wife would get
so mad at me sometimes I getthrough and have about a minute
of talking. And she was outdoing all the important things
that that people have to do backin the rear. And I would just
get like crazy angry when mycall and it would take her that
(25:54):
minute to get to the phone. Andin the time up the M 60 would
pull back the cocking handle andeverybody got the move out.
Tony Nichols (26:06):
They gotta go two hours to go make a phone call. I
just step out of my tent
Chuck Sexton (26:11):
Yeah, I know Air Force.
Melody Sexton (26:13):
Glad you were with the Air Force because we
all know they got it.
Tony Nichols (26:17):
The best assignment swear to God, I'll do
it again.
I tried to do it A few times.
And I decided
Chuck Sexton (26:26):
that I was just I did it every every time every
Tony Nichols (26:28):
every time you shoot and just not talk to
anybody. Well
Chuck Sexton (26:31):
I lived Did you guys have tents?
Tony Nichols (26:34):
airforde did ?
Yeah, we hada little squad tent.
Chuck Sexton (26:39):
That's really nice.
Tony Nichols (26:40):
It would hold four people comfortably. We had five
people in there.
Chuck Sexton (26:42):
I had a squad camouflage net, which was until
December we got Christmas giftsof a GP small.
Tony Nichols (26:49):
Well, when they brought RBI mail you've heard
Chuck Sexton (26:51):
No, we didn't have any of that.
Tony Nichols (26:55):
basic items initial issue a quick track
Bradley company. Each sectioncome with a tent.
Chuck Sexton (27:04):
We had our nothing. We had our camouflage
net
Jay Borja (27:06):
we brought our own from Fort Riley. Yeah,
Chuck Sexton (27:09):
yeah,
Jay Borja (27:09):
we It was. It was desert green and brown.
Chuck Sexton (27:14):
I had a cot. I had a cot and I broke two pieces of
wood off a pallet that I used tostand when I changed my boots.
That was pretty cool.
Tony Nichols (27:23):
When I showed up I was like, you know the last guy
show up and they gave me a cotand it was a broken cot. So my
car for six months.
Chuck Sexton (27:31):
Yes. Way back now because it's held up VA w
Tony Nichols (27:33):
was held up with a Maddox handle that I held up
with a Cargo strap. Yeah. Andit's something else just like I
had to hold it up.
Chuck Sexton (27:41):
Did you claim that on your VA when you got out? Bad
back? You should have I'll
Tony Nichols (27:45):
be honest, I didn't want to claim it because
I felt it made me a
Chuck Sexton (27:50):
little suffering little monkey.
Tony Nichols (27:56):
Do you think your war was hard?
Melody Sexton (27:59):
Well, the people back home kind of found out
about the coffee and toiletpaper was the big thing and baby
wipes was a huge thing. And sothat started going overseas.
Often it missed the soldier. Gotit after you retired.
Jay Borja (28:15):
I mean, I did get some of the care packages.
First, maybe first four or five?
Yeah, yeah. And after that, youknow, it was a it was the week
that did come in. And right outright, February, right. War
finish. My commander says packyour shit. You've own home. Yep,
Tony Nichols (28:42):
that's a good deal.
Jay Borja (28:44):
Well, is because I had already submitted my
Chuck Sexton (28:48):
retirement.
Jay Borja (28:48):
Yeah, my retirement has already gone through. You've
been approved.
Tony Nichols (28:57):
paperwork is approved. Congratulations.
Melody Sexton (29:01):
Oh, okay.
Jay Borja (29:03):
Anyway, there. It was approved. But then you said your
stop loss, right. Hey. I gotnothing better to do.
Chuck Sexton (29:15):
Oh, an extra 150 a month.
Jay Borja (29:21):
I only receive two or three months of combat pay.
Chuck Sexton (29:24):
Well, you guys are tax free to know. Yeah, they
were tax free. The enlisted guyswere tax free. 100% Yeah, cuz it
was the same rules that they hadin Vietnam. Yeah. Yeah.
Officers. No, you weren't taxfree.
Tony Nichols (29:36):
I didn't do it for the money chuck. Oh, I did for
the glory. Well, I did that too.
And the free haircut
Chuck Sexton (29:44):
Companty barbers kit. Really company. Shira,
Jay Borja (29:50):
I always had to pay for
Chuck Sexton (29:52):
the not that kind of haircut.
Melody Sexton (29:55):
Okay, anyway.
So I wanted to ask you guys Iseem to have Remember that in
Desert Storm? We were coming upagainst the third wasn't it the
third largest, or
Chuck Sexton (30:07):
the fourth largest army in the world or
Melody Sexton (30:09):
fourth largest, largest army in the world. They
were just finishing I guess, avery long war with Iran. And
they were equipped by theRussians, which is who I think
if I remember right, that's whoeverybody was training to fight
at that time. And so there was areal perception at least
stateside there was a lot oftalk from former Army officers
(30:30):
and about how ill equipped theAmericans were to go up against
the Russian equipment that fromfrom their boots have a metal
plate in them and they're gonnathey're not gonna be able to
walk in the sand to theBradley's and tanks are going to
get congested with the sand fromthe desert. It was just it was
just not expected to go verywell. So what did you guys
(30:53):
think? How did you train forthis or how you know what? What
do you think about going upagainst the Russian stuff
Tony Nichols (31:00):
our equipment was is war proven. Okay, our M1s our
Bradley's our attackhelicopters. They are all combat
proven during Desert Storm andDesert Shield. I was in a 113
(31:23):
which is a armored personnelcarrier. Okay, okay. That that
is an ancient vehicle
Chuck Sexton (31:31):
aluminum box.
Tony Nichols (31:32):
Yeah, the French word for it is sheet box.
Chuck Sexton (31:37):
Any if you could design a target
Tony Nichols (31:41):
make it square It proved itself in Vietnam and
he proved it so in Desert Storm.
Yeah. Go through the jungleproved itself going through the
sand proved itself is war hardyis just like Warhog. Yeah, yeah.
(32:02):
Well proven. And I would takeWarthog anytime and I would take
a 113 anytimeyou put a monetization packet on
Yeah,
Chuck Sexton (32:11):
I don't know. I like bad Brad. But I mean,
Jay Borja (32:14):
I was I would Bradley trained. When I got there, my
113 was there. What am I doing?
Chuck Sexton (32:22):
You get Do you guys remember you guys remember
that book that Hackworth cameout with
Tony Nichols (32:26):
About Face
Chuck Sexton (32:27):
About Face right before? Right? This was right
before and that was the big buzzit was going throughout the
entire army was Hackworth andabout face and because of his
experiences. So you know, he wona silver star in Vietnam and a
bunch of other highly decoratedfrom Korean War. And he was
making the rounds. And it mywife told me this I didn't know
it because I was out. All Iheard was the voice of peace.
(32:50):
But which we'll talk about alittle bit but the the,
Tony Nichols (32:54):
the, we do not like the Bush
Chuck Sexton (32:59):
but Hackworth wrote this book that said, and
he was doing the rounds, and hewas a respected military expert.
And he did CBS morning show andtoday's show and CNN. And he
said that basically theAmericans, American army, and
American military will just runup against this hardcore army
and they're not going to be ableto stand it and we're going to
(33:19):
be beaten by by the Iraqis andit's going to be another
quagmire similar to Vietnam andit's going to grind down. And
that's Mel, you you heard itbetter than me. So what the
stuff that Hackworth was saying,
Melody Sexton (33:31):
Yeah, he was he was the one that was talking
about how the boots even ourboots for our soldiers were
Chuck Sexton (33:37):
because the spike plates
Melody Sexton (33:38):
ill equipped to be in the desert and that he was
the one I remember saying and ofcourse, I just read his book.
And he was he was just on allthe networks thing. gloom and
doom. As a matter of fact, Iremember distinctly in one of
the newspapers reading that thethe government had ordered. I
think it was 165,000 body bagsfor this war.
Chuck Sexton (34:03):
Sorry to disappoint. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
So
Melody Sexton (34:11):
it was it was pretty It was pretty scary on
the home front.
Tony Nichols (34:14):
Well, even even I was in a scout platoon. There
was nobody in front of us exceptone or two helicopters, right.
And they had given us anassessment of what they thought
was like why would you tell methat that I'm gonna
Chuck Sexton (34:25):
get Oh, the the T 72. will destroy every M1 on the
battlefield. It's autoloader. Doyou remember hearing all that
nada, the M1 will not? Becausewe had been fed on the same
malarkey that NTC had beenpitching for all those years.
And where they supposedlyreplicated T72. And any m one
that came against it wasimmediately destroyed. Well,
(34:46):
reality will teach different inthe coming episodes
Tony Nichols (34:50):
were the guys in Germany were all all they're
trained to fight the Russian sowe were these guys were highly,
highly trained. I mean, veryprofessional and That army they
put in the field and DesertStorm was trained. Oh, yeah, the
fact that they could sit in thatridiculous terrible desert for
six months after fighting, fightthe war when and then sit there
(35:12):
and wait. I mean that is adiscipline to our well
being with them though is thatthey they were battle hardened
only they were tired. Okay andyou're you're facing a fresh,
fresh right off boat combat unitand well, you're not you're not
(35:38):
going to win if you are alreadybattle hardened and then you
face in the fresh.
Chuck Sexton (35:45):
You guys are selling yourself short, you
know, I mean, you know thathonestly, again, when you look
at it, our leaders, every singleone of our general officers was
in Vietnam, every single one ofour Brigade commanders was in
Vietnam and I'm not talking onetour I'm talking. My Brigade
commander was a guy named PaulKern, who was on the initial he
(36:07):
was a troop commander on theinvasion of Cambodia. He was in
the 11th ACR at the time. And hehad done tours before that. My
the battalion commanders,Vietnam at every noncommissioned
officer above the rank ofSergent First Class was a
Vietnam veteran. So and theyknew the deal. They they knew
the deal, they knew the deal. So
Jay Borja (36:30):
there was four of us in in my, in my Squadron, that
was all from the 101st exceptfor the squadron commander, the
squadron commander came fromsomewhere else. But he had, he
had been Namm. And he knewtactics already Vietnam in then,
Chuck Sexton (36:50):
was the mindset more than the tactics, they
weren't going to lose, and theyweren't going to have the same
thing happen again. And we werejust going to kick shit out of
them and get it over quick. Andthat, you know, I remember, as a
fly on the wall here in GeneralMcCaffrey it was who is our
Division commander, a big timewarrior, talking with our
(37:11):
Brigade commander, Paul Kern, abig time warrior. And a guy
named Terry Scott, anotherVietnam vet, big time warrior
and the Sergent Majors allgetting together. And then
specifically saying whathappened to us is not going to
happen to these guys. And Iremember that. So they had it
down to where nobody was goingto let them lose. Nobody was
(37:35):
going to stand in their way. Andso don't ever, you know, the
Vietnam vets won that war. Wemay have been the the guys on
the field, but they're the onesthat won the war for us.
Tony Nichols (37:46):
So from my perspective, they let that leash
go,
Chuck Sexton (37:49):
Oh, yeah. And they trained us too
Tony Nichols (37:51):
I was that was because there was no civilians.
It was them. And us. And I had afront row seat to that. Yeah, it
was crazy. They just, you know,fast forward 15 years. I'm an
advisor for a former RepublicanGuard.
Melody Sexton (38:06):
Yeah. Wow.
Tony Nichols (38:07):
So I got their perspective. Well, that's they
think they won the war.
Chuck Sexton (38:13):
Well, I remember talking to I talked to Funny
enough, almost, let's see. 15years later, I talked to one of
the guys that I actuallycaptured who has and he kind of
remembered, but he was in thethe Al Fah, the Parachute
Regiment. And we captured him.
And I still got his jump wingsthat I ripped off uniform. And I
(38:37):
got his squad book or hisplatoon book. But the the guys
who trained that army were theVietnam guys. And the they were
the ones that trained that forcethat problem. And I know this
sounds, you know, like an oldguy sitting back and drinking a
beer. But the reality is, isthat is a force. That probably
(38:58):
was the finest that has beenfielded since 1945.
Tony Nichols (39:06):
And I think we get you know,
Chuck Sexton (39:11):
we were not sensitive. I can tell you. I was
not sensitive after myexperiences in Korea.
Tony Nichols (39:23):
Remember, the first time I saw a woman in like
three months? Well, I was like,What is she doing there?
Chuck Sexton (39:28):
There's what everybody would always want to
listen to the radio when theestou from one of the units from
first Brigade because they couldhear a woman's voice. And that
was just something verycomforting. Other than getting a
cassette tape, which my wifesent me, which were listened to
over and over and over again.
And night we listened tocassette tapes, but just hearing
that somebody else that soundeddifferent that wasn't using a
(39:52):
swear word. every other word wassomething really kind of nice to
talk. Yeah, well, yeah. No youdo what she.
Melody Sexton (40:01):
And speaking of a woman's voice How about Baghdad
Betty? Did you guys hear any ofthat?
Tony Nichols (40:06):
Never got her never heard her?
Chuck Sexton (40:09):
You guys you guys missed out? she?
Jay Borja (40:11):
She was like I know.
Hanoi... Hanoi... Yeah.
Melody Sexton (40:15):
Was it Hannah?
Chuck Sexton (40:16):
Hannah? Hannah?
Hannah.
Tony Nichols (40:18):
Something like that. Yeah.
Melody Sexton (40:19):
Did you hear her?
Jay Borja (40:19):
I heard her. Yeah. I was on guard duty. Well, Bob
Hope was in country.
Chuck Sexton (40:27):
Bob Hope
Jay Borja (40:32):
I was on guard duty.
I was in the tower. how
Chuck Sexton (40:34):
angry were you about that? how angry were you?
Jay Borja (40:37):
I was getting ready to shoot. Whatever came to come
across,
Chuck Sexton (40:52):
we would get to go back. They had a rotation that
could go back to this placecalled Halfmoon Bay and it was
an all male Saudi Arabianswimming club on the beach. It
was terrible. But I never wentback because I traded every one
of my slots I said okay, all Iwant is to go to the Bob Hope
show cuz he's i know i knowBob's gonna come to Saudi Arabia
(41:14):
he's gonna show I know Bob'sgonna be here I want to go to a
show like you are apparentlywent Oh, no. He went Bob went
Bob went the week before and Iretired and then general Kern,
he said know before the warstarted tough, Gen Kerns, My
brigade commander said okay,Chuck, I got it. You're gonna go
(41:35):
see Bob Hope that's all you wantbecause uh, you know the guys
from the second war two guysfrom Korea guys from Vietnam.
Got to see Bob Hope and that'swhat I wanted to do. And the
week before Bob Hope came allour cars in country were
cancelled by Gerald McCaffrey.
He cancelled them all becauseany vehicle was either running
(41:56):
medical supplies ammunition ormail so everything else was
dedicated man. General McCaffreyhe wouldn't even let us say so
our name tags aren't uniforms wehad we didn't have name tags
because everything was bundledwashed so you that's what they
said it was bundle wash this isVietnam stuff you know where
they kick out a bundle? Well, hecancelled it all and I felt that
(42:17):
was almost a near mutiny rightthere. I was sewing melody
Melody Sexton (42:22):
I got a letter Oh yeah, I want
Tony Nichols (42:24):
to know what kind of waffle eaten unit you were in
but we didn't have uso eatenshows you know that it was not
on bad we're seeing dirt MREsOkay, just pain in combat. I
don't have a shower.
Chuck Sexton (42:42):
Oh.
Oh you or oh you are oh yousweetheart. Oh Hold on. Let me
give you let me give you atissue
Jay Borja (42:54):
they had turkey meat in them
Chuck Sexton (42:58):
Well, speaking of chow, 90 days Chicken Cacciatore
every hot meal every day becausenot after day 40 our our cook
was so lazy. That he went thepalettes that were laid out you
(43:21):
know they have palettes andthere's there's breakfast
palettes there's lunch palettesand they're broken based on you
go to each one of the meals andyou can pick. no. lazy goes to
the one palette that was allChicken cacciatore because
there's all chicken cacciatoreshorting the chicken breast and
you had roast beef which was theguy roast beef man you were
good. You must have been in acav unit but we we had chicken
(43:48):
cacciatore t rations every day.
And and the one time that hetried to make amends is when he
almost destroyed he took outmore American soldiers than
Saddam he
Jay Borja (43:59):
he went dysentery Yeah.
Chuck Sexton (44:02):
He went downtown on the on the civilian market in
the Ville and he bought tomatoesand he cut up the tomatoes and
put them on a on a salad fromthe the lettuce that he got from
downtown. And he fed us a saladand everybody got och nods
revenge and it wiped out abrigade of the 24th Division had
Saddam come across just rolledover never I never have I
(44:29):
contemplated suicide like that.
That was and it was a greatlatrine to go to too by the way.
Yeah, the burnout latrine andlove a lovely thing.
Jay Borja (44:38):
We did that in Viet Nam
Chuck Sexton (44:43):
Oh, it's terrible burn. When we hit that was the
Olympics year 90 was theOlympics year. So we had we had
the start of the Olympics, thatcompany Olympics and they took a
barrel of shit up to the top ofthe one hill that was around us
and everybody and everybody wasIn their long johns in formation
(45:03):
are all the kid ran up the hnever to repeat
Jay Borja (45:17):
that's why you were introduced when you first get in
country.
Chuck Sexton (45:19):
Yeah, shit burner.
Melody Sexton (45:21):
Oh really?
Jay Borja (45:22):
Oh yeah, that was you you go into the like this area
full of tabs and full foSoldiers, and you know they're
all waiting to be assigned to aunit yeah you were there for a
week you were burning oh yeah
Chuck Sexton (45:48):
yes Cami net pull tape to to to stir it that was
always a pleasant thing
Tony Nichols (45:56):
I really want to know because you didn't ever
burn shit because you were anofficer I was a private I burned
lots of shit it's 20% mo gas 80%diesel Yeah,
Chuck Sexton (46:06):
if you get the mixture right, but if you get
the mixture wrong, it'll explode
Jay Borja (46:12):
Dont be standing there
Tony Nichols (46:14):
and nothing if you use all just Mo gas
Chuck Sexton (46:17):
Oh no, no, no No do
Tony Nichols (46:18):
because instead of a three hour detail it turns
into a one hour
Jay Borja (46:23):
or using incendiary grenade
Chuck Sexton (46:24):
I remember it explode I remember it exploding
on guys because they did use toohot of a gas mix.
Tony Nichols (46:30):
It's an art and I apparently everyone else yeah. I
was really good at it
Jay Borja (46:36):
He was a chemist.
Chuck Sexton (46:39):
Fashion Design.
Tony Nichols (46:40):
You know we all have gifts that the lord gives
us
Jay Borja (46:44):
And shit Burning's not one of them.
Tony Nichols (46:49):
I'm a 360 degree soldier. I'm either dealing
death or burning shit neverstop. Constantly is
Jay Borja (46:58):
he's one or the other. Yeah.
Melody Sexton (47:00):
Oh my gosh. All right. Last question. Last
question. You guys spent a lotof time in the desert waiting
for this all to kick off. And sowhen the air war started, what
did you think were you like oh,finally this is it. We're going
to move? Or you know, what inthe world did you think when
that happened?
Tony Nichols (47:20):
Well, again, I was private and that was me and my
buddy sip tack. You know, wealways did everything together.
We're sitting there on the rampand it was like it was dark.
It's so dark. You can't see yourhand.
Chuck Sexton (47:29):
Everything
Tony Nichols (47:30):
Yeah, you can't see. Then it goes radio Okay,
the air war started and we justgrabbed the ammo cans turn
shovin bullets into themagazine. They wouldn't let us
load until the war started. Sothen we got all our combat loads
out. Everybody starts throwingtow missiles in the launchers
Melody Sexton (47:47):
you're ready within an hour right to go you
Tony Nichols (47:50):
know just picture the guy from Mad Max with the
Mohawk shoulder back now.
Chuck Sexton (47:56):
The humongous
Jay Borja (47:59):
no we had general Schwarzkopf hold our s3 and says
Be prepared because the firstlaunch is getting ready to to go
Melody Sexton (48:17):
and just reminding everybody you were
attached to the Air Force. Yeah.
Jay Borja (48:21):
We were we were right there. The artillery and the
rocket launchers. And Whoa,yeah. That's all you hear. You
were trying to take a nap.
Because you've had a long roadMarch to get there. And the
first thing year was that rocketcoming out of that pot. And then
(48:43):
the long five, five and thenit's, it's now we're never Here
we go. And then we were aboutthree o'clock, four o'clock that
morning where we startedbreaching the berm.
Tony Nichols (49:02):
But I wouldn't die until Yeah, we
Chuck Sexton (49:06):
Airforce nailed him for a bunch of when it I
remember it happened. And thennobody told us that it was going
to happen. But you knewsomething was going on. Because
all of a sudden mlrs startedkicking in and they were
shooting the URL. The multiplelaunch rocket system was
shooting at all the enemy radarsites that were they all arrayed
(49:26):
along the border. So we startedI remember the MLRs is kicking
in. It's like, Oh, this issomething's happening. And they
hit they hit all the rocket andthen next thing I remember
seeing was all these zoomiescoming over us just hauling and
the one way you could tellthey're on our side was they had
the lights on. And you could seeas they were going in once once
(49:49):
they cross the border the lightsgo off. And you see the zoomies
going up to hit all the all thedifferent positions
Melody Sexton (49:55):
oir planes?
Yeah, the radios Oh yeah, thefast Movers. Yeah. And then
because they didn't send the a10s until till later on after
the the big the big and thenthen the buff came in then the B
52 started coming in it was likeand you started hearing boom
boom and then the via theVietnam guys it's like Arc Light
(50:16):
our light Arc Light
Jay Borja (50:18):
there we go
Chuck Sexton (50:19):
and you just see that on the horizon just flash
flash flash flash flash and thatwent on for 30 days.
Tony Nichols (50:24):
Yeah, I was still sitting yeah eating memory yeah
well and guard duty and I got itgot pretty good morning.
Chuck Sexton (50:30):
Oh, they're gonna they're gonna shoot us. Good
Melody Sexton (50:33):
morning to six in the morning. Yes, because
Tony Nichols (50:36):
I was a private and I was new so i i
Chuck Sexton (50:39):
know you were a mail clerk. Dude.
Jay Borja (50:43):
I was waiting for puff the magic dragon to come
through.
Chuck Sexton (50:46):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, they did too. That was
uh,
Melody Sexton (50:50):
which one was that which plane
Chuck Sexton (50:51):
AC 130.s They, they there was this. This one.
After they knocked out theythought they'd knocked out all
these different sites. And therewas one that was called a fan
song radar, which is one of thebig air defense radars that the
Russians had given them and theRussians were actually running
it because you could hear himtalking in Russian back and
forth on the different nets. Andthere was one right along the
(51:13):
borders. And it was spinning.
You know, it had a it had a topon it that spun the radar dish
was spinning on top of it. Andthey hit that thing with mlrs.
They hit that thing with eightinch, they hit it with 105
millimeter howitzer. 155millimeter howitzers. They hit
it with fast Movers. And thething kept spinning. That's how
they were registering it. Okay,it's still spinning because the
(51:35):
Iraqis would turn radars on andoff. Well, they're like, oh,
man, this thing. We can't killit. We can't kill it. So they
called it they called it an ac130. And it just drilled just
wipe wipe dto clean, but thething was still spinning. Well,
then they send the cabvguys fromthe cabvup to look at it. And
they're like, oh, man,everything here is ctompelyt
destroyed. They look like Swisscheese. But the little dish was
(51:56):
still turning like a windmill
Jay Borja (52:05):
like they're not doing anything. around.
Tony Nichols (52:09):
Oh, yeah, there's like seven. There's like 70
pairs of boots. Where the Iraqisa hand with a sandwich in
Chuck Sexton (52:20):
the for that fan song radar every night. Oh,
we're gonna hit the fan songagain. We're hitting the fan
song.
Tony Nichols (52:27):
Hardcore dog on Turkey.
Chuck Sexton (52:32):
Yeah, the cav came I was like, oh, man, it's
completely
Jay Borja (52:38):
missed it.
Chuck Sexton (52:42):
The fans on radar?
Melody Sexton (52:44):
Well, I think that leads us right up to Desert
Storm to the, to the launch ofthe ground war. So we're gonna
go ahead and end it right there.
I hope you guys will all comeback. So we can finish the
story. And that'll be our nextpodcast episode will be about
the storm.
Chuck Sexton (53:01):
Yeah, thanks for giving us the time.
Tony Nichols (53:03):
Absolutely.
Wonderful to share the, youknow, my contribution to
America's freedom,
Chuck Sexton (53:09):
the true hero.
Melody Sexton (53:20):
Well, and we hope and we hope everybody enjoyed
this podcast today, Vets On TheNet. We hope you'll join us
again for our future episodes.
If you like what you've heard,please subscribe. I would like
to thank our sponsor for thisbroadcast. It's Eric and Callie
MacMahan. They are longtimefinancial supporters of the
Flint Hills veterans coalition.
(53:42):
And we just want to appreciatetheir they're making this
broadcast possible for us today.
Also, I'd like to thank DaveLewis of Dave Lewis
entertainment. Yep, he gave us Ididn't have to buy equipment. So
I'm very happy with that
Tony Nichols (53:59):
the great American and
Chuck Sexton (54:00):
if anybody's got any specific questions to send
them in, and we'll do our bestto answer
Melody Sexton (54:04):
Yep, I will on our website when we post this on
the website. If you go to ourwebsite, Flint Hills
veterans.org I'll post links tothe plains of Desert Storm and
Desert Shield. I'll post linksto different things that we've
talked about today. So you'll beable to kind of learn more and
you know, let's have aconversation about this.
Tony Nichols (54:24):
Why do you Sagittarius?
Chuck Sexton (54:25):
Why do you fight for the bush?
Tony Nichols (54:29):
Why do you fight for the bush?
Chu (54:34):
American soldier Why do you fight for the bush
Melody Sexton (54:45):
thanks for listening till next time.
Welcome to Vets On The Net. This is a podcast
that's a product at the FlintHills Veterans Coalition. And
we're gathered around the tabletoday, in America's Heartland,
just to tell some stories ofmilitary experiences and share a
laugh. And really, this is justan oral history with a
difference. And I think whenyou're done listening, you'll
hear what the difference is. Sopull up a chair, join us for
(00:31):
episode one. Shield to Storm.
Chuck Sexton (00:33):
It's all about GIs, right?
Melody Sexton (00:35):
Yes, it's about GIs.
Tony Nichols (00:38):
gentle individuals.
Melody Sexton (00:44):
At the table is Chuck Sexton, Jay Borja and Tony
Nichols. And thank you guys foragreeing to do this today. We
appreciate that. Can I ask youto go around starting with Chuck
and introduce yourselves? Tellus where you're from originally?
What branch of service and whatunit you were in during Desert,
desert Shield and Desert Stormand what was your job at that
(01:09):
time and your rank and anythingelse you'd like to add?
Chuck Sexton (01:13):
Okay, I'm Chuck Sexton. I'm originally from New
York. In Desert Shield, I was acaptain. And I was assigned to
the 24th Infantry DivisionSecond Brigade. And what else
did you want me to answer? Whatwas my job? I was the S3 Air for
the Brigade and I was a BrigadeS3 plans officer. And basically,
(01:38):
whatever I was told to do.
Melody Sexton (01:39):
And what does an S3 Air do?
Chuck Sexton (01:41):
Well, it plans air routes. It plans air resupply,
it plans air strike missions forattack helicopters and
coordinates with the Air Forceguys as far as bombing runs and
close air support and basicallyanything that has to do with
air, that's what I did.
Melody Sexton (02:03):
Okay. All right.
How about you, Jay?
Jay Borja (02:06):
I'm Jay Borja. I'm originally from the island of
Guam. I was a draftee went toVietnam. And my last tour was
Desert Storm and Desert Shield.
I'm a 19 Delta which is aArmored Reconnaissance
Specialist. And I was assignedto the First Infantry Division.
First Squadron, Fourth Cavalryat Fort Riley. My job there was
(02:29):
I was the S3. I was the AirLiaison officer for the "1/4
Cav" and I was attached to theAir Force. Well, doing recons
and flybys taking enemy out withthe A 10.
Melody Sexton (02:55):
Oh, the Warthogs, yeah,
Jay Borja (02:57):
I had the A10 pilot with me when I was with the "1/4
Cav".
Melody Sexton (03:02):
Oh, wow. I want to hear more about that. That
was my favorite plane. Yeah, inDesert Storm.
Jay Borja (03:07):
The pilot I was with hated being on the ground
because for some reason, heended up being on the ground and
he was calling into spot reportsfor the ground war.
Melody Sexton (03:20):
The what what are those spa reports? Spot reports.
Spot reports. What's that?
Jay Borja (03:27):
Acronym where they pilot will spot enemies on the
ground and they'll call it in.
They either use a helicopter orA10's to disengage or engage the
enemy.
Melody Sexton (03:42):
Okay. Oh, very cool. Yeah. And Tony?
Tony Nichols (03:47):
Yes. I'm Tony Nichols,
Melody Sexton (03:49):
Yes.
Tony Nichols (03:49):
The Tony Nichols.
I'm from I enlisted in Tampa,Florida. I was in 19 Delta also
during Desert Storm. And I hadgraduated from college. And I
enlisted in the Army. I wantedsome adventure. And I hadn't
even been in the army a year andwe deployed a desert storm and I
(04:10):
was I was a Bradley driverduring the action. M3 Calvary
Fighting Vehicle I was with 3/8Calvary Second Brigade, Third
Armored Division.
Chuck Sexton (04:21):
Yeah. All right.
That was the you were a memberof the I BB D. Inner head.
International Brotherhood ofBradley drivers. It was the
union Bradley drivers at thetime. They're very powerful.
Yes,
Tony Nichols (04:34):
very powerful and very handsome.
Chuck Sexton (04:37):
And he likes long walks on the beach. You forgot
about that one, pina coladas,playing with puppies.
Melody Sexton (04:46):
And my name is Melody Sexton. I'm from St.
Petersburg, Florida, just acrossthe bay from Tony. He lived in
the rich kids section of Tampa.
Yes, I did. And I had beenmarried to Army infantryman. For
seven years had two smallchildren when Desert Storm,
Chuck Sexton (05:03):
Desert Shield
Melody Sexton (05:04):
and Desert Shield. That's true. That's
true. I forgot what we weretalking about today. That's our
topic, right? All right. And Ialso want to acknowledge and
thank our studio audience forbeing here today. And if you
hear any loud noises in thebackground, it's their fault. So
today, we're going to talk aboutDesert Shield. And we're gonna
(05:25):
save Desert Storm for anotherday, another episode. This year,
and it's hard to believe it, isthe 30th anniversary of Desert
Storm, Desert Storm. And so Ithink what we need to do,
because it's been so, I know,because it's been so long, we
need to refresh in people'sminds kind of what was going on
(05:47):
back then. And so set the scenedescribing the events that kind
of brought us into the Gulf in1990. Chuck, you look like you
want to say something?
Chuck Sexton (05:56):
Well you got to think about it. The youngest
Desert Storm veteran now is 49years old, which is kind of wild
because the youngest guy toserve was 19 and Tony was a very
young, very young and nubile 24year old, lean, but so it's 49
(06:16):
which at the time it seems kindof crazy when you look back at
it now but it's been 30 years.
The reason it started and I'llstart this out with I first
heard about iraq doing somethingin Kuwait. I was at Fort Sill at
the time and I was going throughthe Artillery Advanced Course
after I'd done the Infantry oneand whatever I failed
(06:44):
Well, I was going to the theArtillery Advanced Course I
remember watching it on the onthe news and the big thing on
the news was watching the theRussian Hip helicopters or the
Iraqi Russian Hip helicoptersflying into Kuwait City. And
it's like, okay, this isn'tgonna last This is this isn't
gonna last and we were in ourlast, I think last two weeks of
the course. So it's not gonnalast it's gonna be over by the
(07:05):
time and it will be done withit. But basically it started,
Mel, with the Iraqi invasion ofKuwait for several, you know, it
depends on whose side you pick,but several reasons. And our
agreement with Kuwait, as wellas agreement with the
international community tosecure the flow of oil from the
(07:26):
Persian Gulf and at the time,Kuwait was the second largest
supplier of Europe's oil andJapan's oil, the first being
Saudi Arabia, the second beingIraq or correction Kuwait. So
that's when that's where it wasstarted for and an agreement You
know, this. No, it wasn't itwasn't Lebowski who said it,
(07:48):
"this aggression shall notstand" that was actually
President George Bush, who saidthe aggression will not stand.
That's when he sent the guys, HWHW Bush, Abu Bush, Abu Bush, he
was the one that said theaggression would not stand. And
in August, he sent the 82ndAirborne and elements of the
(08:09):
24th Infantry Division, as wellas Marine Corps MEU that was
already afloat in the
Melody Sexton (08:15):
Marine Corps.
What?
Chuck Sexton (08:17):
Marine Expeditionary Unit that was
onboard ships that was in theMediterranean at the time,
Jay Borja (08:23):
the Fifth Expedition, Marine Corps
Tony Nichols (08:25):
Yeah, for those who don't know, it's a Brigade
size unit that has its selfcontained helicopter artillery
engineer, reconnaissance,infantry and armor.
Chuck Sexton (08:35):
And the biggest thing they were upset about at
the time was I think they hadjust made the rule for the
Marines that they had to sewname tags on their uniforms. So
that was a, I remember talkingto my Marine buddies other very
upset about that, because priorto that Marines never wore name
tags.
Jay Borja (08:50):
My nephew was in that, he beat me over there.
Melody Sexton (08:54):
Your nephew was on that ship.
Chuck Sexton (08:57):
Five MEU, right.
So, but that's when that's whenit all kind of started for US
involvement. So as I startedthat middle middle, well, first
week, August is when he invadedmiddle of August, is when US
troops started to arrive inSaudi Arabia in order to secure
oil fields, as well as the thenation of Saudi Arabia because
(09:21):
there's a big fear at the timethat he would continue moving. s
Saddam would continue to attacksouth towards Saudi Arabia.
Tony Nichols (09:30):
Now from a German point of view, I was in Germany.
Well, technically. I graduatedfrom basic training in August 15
of 1990. Yeah, when we, yeah.
And so we we came out of basicand I was so tired. I was glad
to be out and my parents droveme home back to Atlanta, from
Fort Knox. And there are peoplehanging American flags. They
have been thinking, hey, great,thank you. You're welcome. Thank
(09:52):
you for your service. No, theythought we were part of the 82nd
that was going down to the portto deploy.
Melody Sexton (09:59):
Oh
Tony Nichols (10:00):
So, I got sent to Germany, and in Germany, we were
all getting ready to deactivateanyway because things are
starting to wind down becausethe the wall had fallen in 1989.
And when I got there, it was solike, relaxed that they put me
in the post office for threemonths. I literally was in the
post office for I was like, whathave i done? I watched the
(10:24):
laser disc in the recruiter'soffice? This is not what I was
gonna do. You had a collegeeducation. I had a college,
which is why
Chuck Sexton (10:33):
a recruiter lied to you, Tony. You believe it?
Top?
Tony Nichols (10:38):
We were saying this for six months in the
desert. Our Commander, ourBattalion Commander, Timothy
Looper had a Battalion formationin like the middle of beginning
of December, and he said, "Myfriends in the Pentagon have
assured me we are not going toDesert Storm.
Next morning, Cover of Stars andStripes "3rd Army Division
(11:02):
deploys to Desert Storm". We'resitting in the middle of
nowhere, "My friends in thePentagon..."
Chuck Sexton (11:09):
Faith in your leadership.
Tony Nichols (11:11):
So they took me out of the post office at the
last minute. Threw me in thescout platoon, like who's this
guy. I yelled at the firstartist that didn't join the army
to work in the post office. Hepunched him private in the mouth
at the Christmas party. So I waslittle afraid of him.
Chuck Sexton (11:27):
rightfully so.
Tony Nichols (11:28):
I was like, I want to go into the scout platoon.
But
Melody Sexton (11:30):
you were really sick of the post office. Manned
up and...
Tony Nichols (11:33):
I mean, think about it. I knew what was coming
down the pipe. The brigade wasgonna deploy. Yeah. And I stay
home and work in the postoffice? The humiliation is
unbearable.
Chuck Sexton (11:43):
Well, later on, I'll tell you a story about the
post office. And what happens
Tony Nichols (11:48):
I've got a story of a guy that stayed back from
my platoon. I'm not making thisup. But we redeployed to guys in
the platoon. When he was onstaff duty, the guy that didn't
deploy, and he got promoted.
They grabbed him and beat himup. I mean, like he had to go to
the hospital. Well.
Chuck Sexton (12:10):
Since we're talking post office, we'd
already been, you said Decemberis when you got the alert. We'd
already been there. I leftArtillery School in the end of
August. And then we went to 24thand went over to to Saudi
Arabia. Well, in about October,November. This is this is a
(12:30):
story you won't hear this is anear mutiny in the United States
Army. This is a mutiny. The,they set our postal clerks at
Dharan back in the city. We wereout in the middle of nowhere by
a little town that has a spotcalled alley wayna. Our postal
clerks set fire to the postaltent because they're smoking and
(12:53):
they destroyed the entire theentirety of the 24th Division,
Christmas, Christmas andThanksgiving mail. Fruitcakes
are gone ham illegally smuggledham was gone. The Listerine
bottles filled with alcohol goneeverything it went up like a
torch. Well, news finally gotback and that's when the
(13:14):
Sergeant Major started armingthe senior noncommissioned
officers started giving themammunition so they could put
down the riot it was it was upnear mutiny that there was a
demand to kill the postalclerks.
No, no,they guys were cranking their
Brads and your M1s. And we'regonna drive back and kill the
postal clerks. And it was a itwas a scab that was picked for
(13:38):
about a month and a half becauseas you know the mail must go
through. So what they continuedto send were portions of letters
that were like burned in half soyou can see like a burnt and
half letter and I remember JohnFinnefrock yes guess his name?
No. That's the illegal that'sthat's when I was a child. I
(14:02):
can't use but finger and thenfill in the blank for that. Oh,
it was terrible. He had a chipon his shoulder But anyway, and
something else he he got aletter that was burned
completely in half to where hedidn't even know who sent it.
Mike, Mike Billingsley got justthe return address. And his name
(14:27):
Mike Billingsley on it anotherbuddy of mine, which like I said
the scab was being picked everyday because if somebody would
get one of these shreds a burnthalf burnt package must have
smelled really good though downand Dharan all the honestly am
burning and chocolate.
Tony Nichols (14:46):
It was World War Two.
I mean, you know,
Chuck Sexton (14:50):
oh yeah,
Tony Nichols (14:51):
we have a crate full of letters. You remember
you? Oh yeah, days withoutletters.
Chuck Sexton (14:58):
Well,
Tony Nichols (14:58):
I'm out here alone, everybody.
Jay Borja (15:00):
Yeah, it's pitiful
Tony Nichols (15:02):
Oh, okay here acting like a jerk
Chuck Sexton (15:06):
Vietnam guys tell us about it, tell us about how
hard we had it
Tony Nichols (15:10):
actually August, my family and I were over in
England, we were on leave mysister in law with me she want
to only wanted to see England.
My wife's British, so we went toEngland with my sister in law.
And you know, we're watching BBCNews. Of course, you know the
(15:32):
invasion of Kuwait and my sisterin law got so panicky because
she knew her son was going to beyou know, involved with that
because of the Marine Corps. Isaid Nah, he's not gonna be
there it's gonna take him awhile to get back in the states.
(15:55):
Oh no, he beat me thereMy friends in the Pentagon have
assured me we will not be goingto Desert Storm...
Jay Borja (16:07):
he was actually had already gotten there but after
the invasion, and I never gotthere till after December
Chuck Sexton (16:18):
you guys got there in December
Jay Borja (16:19):
Yeah.
Tony Nichols (16:20):
We'd left on Christmas Day,
Jay Borja (16:22):
my the my unit left in September October they went
they had the advance partyalready left and they're waiting
for the rest of the unit to getthere. And I got there in
December. Wow. I mean, we wetrapse from the airport to the
(16:49):
shipyard some hotel and we werebeing bounced all over the place
and I finally they
Chuck Sexton (16:58):
the Khobar Towers right?
Jay Borja (16:59):
Yeah. Yeah,
Tony Nichols (17:01):
I stayed there.
Yeah, briefly.
Jay Borja (17:03):
I was in there for like about a day and a half and
you you headed out to thealphaalpha but you got to go
pick up your your crew with fineI need to get out of here
anyway. It Rain I mean
Chuck Sexton (17:17):
rains real bad Oh,
Jay Borja (17:18):
yeah. I said this is reminding me of somewhere, I've
been. And sure enough. My manit was like get up get put on
the bus. And traveling, rain youdon't know if you're gonna get
you know your sink in the sand.
Yeah. No road,
Chuck Sexton (17:39):
but it doesn't rain in the desert though. So it
doesn't get cold there either.
Jay Borja (17:43):
Does this what they say?
Tony Nichols (17:45):
Most of the pictures I have I'm wearing my
parka
Chuck Sexton (17:48):
well with the guys back in the state you know we
kept getting care packages fromthe folks back in the states,.
God bless them, with sunscreenand keep keep cool towels and
all this kind of keep cool stuffand man I remember we had
certain Tebo was one of the NCOthat worked for me and he had a
(18:09):
scarf he was one of the guysbecause we went over and I in in
August, September and thingswere really really hot then his
100 plus and nobody brought anycold weather gear you know we
come from Fort Stewart andnobody brought anything and so
so guys had like we got issuedlong johns so they would walk
around with long johns withouttheir trousers on and he had a
(18:32):
he had a scarf he wanted a GIscarf one of the green gi scarf
so you know with the it's like atube and he for his Christmas
gifts that he gave everybody Itwas so so David Copperfield. He
had cut the scarf into portionsand then sewed by hand so it
made hats. And it was it washorrible to look at but we had a
(18:53):
we had a quilt oh we should havebeen on the internet well yeah
well yeah. Our S2 shot a holethrough the roof with his pistol
cuz he got so nervous but that'sthat's when Tebo took his ammo
away. He got ordered by ourbrigade commander. No more ammo
for him.
Tony Nichols (19:10):
One bullet in his pocket. This is for sure
ourselves andwe packed on on Christmas on
Christmas Eve. And we put our m16 machine guns in the back of
the track. It was snowing. Wehad winter gear. We had plenty
of winter gear. But we got themachine guns. we unload them at
the port. They were all rustedbecause of the wet.
Melody Sexton (19:32):
Oh no. Yeah. So well. We're talking about care
packages in the mail and whythat would people probably cause
people to mutiny. Yes, theydon't understand that. So let's
talk a little bit about theliving conditions once you got
there and tell me where youwere. And what was it like Tony,
where were you wound up? Wheredo you wind up
Tony Nichols (19:51):
again keeping in mind that I was a private yes
driving a track is that we gotto the port first we had to do
is paint them tan color. So wepainted up tan color. We were on
the port for about five days.
And then we got orders pack upand go to this grid establish
observation post on tap lineroad to provide security for
other units coming in. So, and Iwrote about it the first night,
(20:17):
I mean, I'm soaked, which I'mjust soaked. And you know,
because it's raining, and we'rehaving to do all this stuff and
unload and unload. And I'm justsoaking. I'm driving the track
to this location. And I finallyget there tonight. And I got the
nod thing going on. And it'sjust, it's the worst. And we
finally stopped, they set up andI just get on track and I strip
naked. I put on dry clothes andget back in that driver's hole
(20:42):
fall asleep.
Chuck Sexton (20:45):
So you had a driver's hole? That's pretty
good. That's nice.
Tony Nichols (20:48):
A very small one bedroom apartment. Yes.
Melody Sexton (20:51):
What's the drivers hole?
Tony Nichols (20:52):
Well, the Bradley fighting vehicle you are the
turret crews in the turret. Andyou're the front of the vehicle
in the hole. And it's prettyspacious right
Chuck Sexton (21:00):
next to the engine.
Melody Sexton (21:01):
It's just just you in there
Tony Nichols (21:03):
just me in there.
Yeah. And the engines righthere. So when I stop, it's kind
of warm. Yeah, I don't like toleave it and there's a there's a
drain plug on the floor right bymy foot. And I would hold it
open with my foot.
Chuck Sexton (21:14):
You went number one?
Tony Nichols (21:15):
Number one. I mean, literally, I'd been there
for days. If I didn't have to do
Melody Sexton (21:21):
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute. Are you a tanker?
Chuck Sexton (21:24):
Oh, yes.
Melody Sexton (21:30):
That explaineds Yeah, that explains. eHow about
you Jay< Where did you end up?
What was it like?
Like I said, I I was bounced allover Kuwait. Till I finally got
to my unit. And they were out onout on the field already. They
were in the alpha alpha.
What's the alpha alpha?
Jay Borja (21:50):
What's that? It's an assembly area what they call an
assembly. This is Where, A unitjust pick an area on a map.
Yeah. Okay. This is where we'regoing to assemble it goes to
this area. And that's whereeverybody's at.
Melody Sexton (22:06):
So where, you were in Saudi Arabia. So we're
in salt. What? Were there anytowns near you or anything or
Jay Borja (22:12):
No, no.
When you look at something,there's nothing there to see
Melody Sexton (22:20):
don't turn left at the
Chuck Sexton (22:22):
North. North of tap line, right.
Melody Sexton (22:25):
Don't go chasing wild camels. Anyway, we, like I
said we we were just bouncingall over the place. There were
several, That was the lastpeople that came out in the
unit, Fort Riley. And we we gotthere. And I said is there
(22:49):
telephone anyway. And so I
Jay Borja (22:54):
I was attached to the air force. Oh, they had their
own their own phone.
My wife said Where are youcalling me from? Is it don't ask
where I'm at? Because I don'tknow. But I'm calling you
Melody Sexton (23:11):
somewhere and
Jay Borja (23:13):
send me some coffee.
Really never had any coffee. Youknow mousehole was too far away.
You never had coffee. So coffeewas a commodity that you? I
mean, that's a black market.
Right. And so they were sendingme coffee. She had we had
(23:33):
friends and they were puttingcoffee together and pack it and
sending it over there. I beatevery one of them back.
Melody Sexton (23:42):
No,
Jay Borja (23:43):
I beat every one
Tony Nichols (23:44):
of them back.
Chuck Sexton (23:46):
Well, Oh, well.
Tony Nichols (23:49):
I was still receiving care packages when I
retired. Anyone know?
Chuck Sexton (23:57):
Your phone conversations are heartbreaking.
Because a two and a half hourdrive to the closest phone
drive.
Tony Nichols (24:04):
It was about an hour and a half. Two hours. Two
and a half. five tons.
Chuck Sexton (24:08):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
covered completely in a moondust at the end of our Yeah,
from at&t. Yeah, it was nothingfree at the time. drive all the
way we had the phone center whenwe got there. In August, they
set up a phone center they madean agreement with the with the
nation of the Kingdom of SaudiArabia to allow us to tap into
their phone lines. So we're allset. They they built the phone
(24:29):
Center, which they quicklysurrounded it was a divisional
level thing they quicklysurrounded with concertina wire
and their phones on four byfours on a little piece of
plywood, you had regular dial upphones, and they were spaced out
in a in a GP medium generalpurpose medium size tent. Yeah.
(24:50):
And you you you had an MP waswith an M 60 position, standing
there. At the front of them, andyou were in in line, and you'd
line up there, and they had a MPat a stopwatch. Yeah. And you
had exactly 10 minutes on thephone. And there was a two
(25:10):
minute transition time. So theguys that were on the phone
before you got out, and you wentin, and you picked up your
phone, and you hope you got agood one. And the MP would say,
go and that's when you'd startdialing. And I still remember
what you'd always get (inArabic) Afwan Sadiq which was
the first thing that your phonecall didn't go through. Sorry,
sir, your phone, your phone gotso you dial like crazy. And
(25:34):
sometimes, you know, I can'tunderstand why my wife would get
so mad at me sometimes I getthrough and have about a minute
of talking. And she was outdoing all the important things
that that people have to do backin the rear. And I would just
get like crazy angry when mycall and it would take her that
(25:54):
minute to get to the phone. Andin the time up the M 60 would
pull back the cocking handle andeverybody got the move out.
Tony Nichols (26:06):
They gotta go two hours to go make a phone call. I
just step out of my tent
Chuck Sexton (26:11):
Yeah, I know Air Force.
Melody Sexton (26:13):
Glad you were with the Air Force because we
all know they got it.
Tony Nichols (26:17):
The best assignment swear to God, I'll do
it again.
I tried to do it A few times.
And I decided
Chuck Sexton (26:26):
that I was just I did it every every time every
Tony Nichols (26:28):
every time you shoot and just not talk to
anybody. Well
Chuck Sexton (26:31):
I lived Did you guys have tents?
Tony Nichols (26:34):
airforde did ?
Yeah, we hada little squad tent.
Chuck Sexton (26:39):
That's really nice.
Tony Nichols (26:40):
It would hold four people comfortably. We had five
people in there.
Chuck Sexton (26:42):
I had a squad camouflage net, which was until
December we got Christmas giftsof a GP small.
Tony Nichols (26:49):
Well, when they brought RBI mail you've heard
Chuck Sexton (26:51):
No, we didn't have any of that.
Tony Nichols (26:55):
basic items initial issue a quick track
Bradley company. Each sectioncome with a tent.
Chuck Sexton (27:04):
We had our nothing. We had our camouflage
net
Jay Borja (27:06):
we brought our own from Fort Riley. Yeah,
Chuck Sexton (27:09):
yeah,
Jay Borja (27:09):
we It was. It was desert green and brown.
Chuck Sexton (27:14):
I had a cot. I had a cot and I broke two pieces of
wood off a pallet that I used tostand when I changed my boots.
That was pretty cool.
Tony Nichols (27:23):
When I showed up I was like, you know the last guy
show up and they gave me a cotand it was a broken cot. So my
car for six months.
Chuck Sexton (27:31):
Yes. Way back now because it's held up VA w
Tony Nichols (27:33):
was held up with a Maddox handle that I held up
with a Cargo strap. Yeah. Andit's something else just like I
had to hold it up.
Chuck Sexton (27:41):
Did you claim that on your VA when you got out? Bad
back? You should have I'll
Tony Nichols (27:45):
be honest, I didn't want to claim it because
I felt it made me a
Chuck Sexton (27:50):
little suffering little monkey.
Tony Nichols (27:56):
Do you think your war was hard?
Melody Sexton (27:59):
Well, the people back home kind of found out
about the coffee and toiletpaper was the big thing and baby
wipes was a huge thing. And sothat started going overseas.
Often it missed the soldier. Gotit after you retired.
Jay Borja (28:15):
I mean, I did get some of the care packages.
First, maybe first four or five?
Yeah, yeah. And after that, youknow, it was a it was the week
that did come in. And right outright, February, right. War
finish. My commander says packyour shit. You've own home. Yep,
Tony Nichols (28:42):
that's a good deal.
Jay Borja (28:44):
Well, is because I had already submitted my
Chuck Sexton (28:48):
retirement.
Jay Borja (28:48):
Yeah, my retirement has already gone through. You've
been approved.
Tony Nichols (28:57):
paperwork is approved. Congratulations.
Melody Sexton (29:01):
Oh, okay.
Jay Borja (29:03):
Anyway, there. It was approved. But then you said your
stop loss, right. Hey. I gotnothing better to do.
Chuck Sexton (29:15):
Oh, an extra 150 a month.
Jay Borja (29:21):
I only receive two or three months of combat pay.
Chuck Sexton (29:24):
Well, you guys are tax free to know. Yeah, they
were tax free. The enlisted guyswere tax free. 100% Yeah, cuz it
was the same rules that they hadin Vietnam. Yeah. Yeah.
Officers. No, you weren't taxfree.
Tony Nichols (29:36):
I didn't do it for the money chuck. Oh, I did for
the glory. Well, I did that too.
And the free haircut
Chuck Sexton (29:44):
Companty barbers kit. Really company. Shira,
Jay Borja (29:50):
I always had to pay for
Chuck Sexton (29:52):
the not that kind of haircut.
Melody Sexton (29:55):
Okay, anyway.
So I wanted to ask you guys Iseem to have Remember that in
Desert Storm? We were coming upagainst the third wasn't it the
third largest, or
Chuck Sexton (30:07):
the fourth largest army in the world or
Melody Sexton (30:09):
fourth largest, largest army in the world. They
were just finishing I guess, avery long war with Iran. And
they were equipped by theRussians, which is who I think
if I remember right, that's whoeverybody was training to fight
at that time. And so there was areal perception at least
stateside there was a lot oftalk from former Army officers
(30:30):
and about how ill equipped theAmericans were to go up against
the Russian equipment that fromfrom their boots have a metal
plate in them and they're gonnathey're not gonna be able to
walk in the sand to theBradley's and tanks are going to
get congested with the sand fromthe desert. It was just it was
just not expected to go verywell. So what did you guys
(30:53):
think? How did you train forthis or how you know what? What
do you think about going upagainst the Russian stuff
Tony Nichols (31:00):
our equipment was is war proven. Okay, our M1s our
Bradley's our attackhelicopters. They are all combat
proven during Desert Storm andDesert Shield. I was in a 113
(31:23):
which is a armored personnelcarrier. Okay, okay. That that
is an ancient vehicle
Chuck Sexton (31:31):
aluminum box.
Tony Nichols (31:32):
Yeah, the French word for it is sheet box.
Chuck Sexton (31:37):
Any if you could design a target
Tony Nichols (31:41):
make it square It proved itself in Vietnam and
he proved it so in Desert Storm.
Yeah. Go through the jungleproved itself going through the
sand proved itself is war hardyis just like Warhog. Yeah, yeah.
(32:02):
Well proven. And I would takeWarthog anytime and I would take
a 113 anytimeyou put a monetization packet on
Yeah,
Chuck Sexton (32:11):
I don't know. I like bad Brad. But I mean,
Jay Borja (32:14):
I was I would Bradley trained. When I got there, my
113 was there. What am I doing?
Chuck Sexton (32:22):
You get Do you guys remember you guys remember
that book that Hackworth cameout with
Tony Nichols (32:26):
About Face
Chuck Sexton (32:27):
About Face right before? Right? This was right
before and that was the big buzzit was going throughout the
entire army was Hackworth andabout face and because of his
experiences. So you know, he wona silver star in Vietnam and a
bunch of other highly decoratedfrom Korean War. And he was
making the rounds. And it mywife told me this I didn't know
it because I was out. All Iheard was the voice of peace.
(32:50):
But which we'll talk about alittle bit but the the,
Tony Nichols (32:54):
the, we do not like the Bush
Chuck Sexton (32:59):
but Hackworth wrote this book that said, and
he was doing the rounds, and hewas a respected military expert.
And he did CBS morning show andtoday's show and CNN. And he
said that basically theAmericans, American army, and
American military will just runup against this hardcore army
and they're not going to be ableto stand it and we're going to
(33:19):
be beaten by by the Iraqis andit's going to be another
quagmire similar to Vietnam andit's going to grind down. And
that's Mel, you you heard itbetter than me. So what the
stuff that Hackworth was saying,
Melody Sexton (33:31):
Yeah, he was he was the one that was talking
about how the boots even ourboots for our soldiers were
Chuck Sexton (33:37):
because the spike plates
Melody Sexton (33:38):
ill equipped to be in the desert and that he was
the one I remember saying and ofcourse, I just read his book.
And he was he was just on allthe networks thing. gloom and
doom. As a matter of fact, Iremember distinctly in one of
the newspapers reading that thethe government had ordered. I
think it was 165,000 body bagsfor this war.
Chuck Sexton (34:03):
Sorry to disappoint. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
So
Melody Sexton (34:11):
it was it was pretty It was pretty scary on
the home front.
Tony Nichols (34:14):
Well, even even I was in a scout platoon. There
was nobody in front of us exceptone or two helicopters, right.
And they had given us anassessment of what they thought
was like why would you tell methat that I'm gonna
Chuck Sexton (34:25):
get Oh, the the T 72. will destroy every M1 on the
battlefield. It's autoloader. Doyou remember hearing all that
nada, the M1 will not? Becausewe had been fed on the same
malarkey that NTC had beenpitching for all those years.
And where they supposedlyreplicated T72. And any m one
that came against it wasimmediately destroyed. Well,
(34:46):
reality will teach different inthe coming episodes
Tony Nichols (34:50):
were the guys in Germany were all all they're
trained to fight the Russian sowe were these guys were highly,
highly trained. I mean, veryprofessional and That army they
put in the field and DesertStorm was trained. Oh, yeah, the
fact that they could sit in thatridiculous terrible desert for
six months after fighting, fightthe war when and then sit there
(35:12):
and wait. I mean that is adiscipline to our well
being with them though is thatthey they were battle hardened
only they were tired. Okay andyou're you're facing a fresh,
fresh right off boat combat unitand well, you're not you're not
(35:38):
going to win if you are alreadybattle hardened and then you
face in the fresh.
Chuck Sexton (35:45):
You guys are selling yourself short, you
know, I mean, you know thathonestly, again, when you look
at it, our leaders, every singleone of our general officers was
in Vietnam, every single one ofour Brigade commanders was in
Vietnam and I'm not talking onetour I'm talking. My Brigade
commander was a guy named PaulKern, who was on the initial he
(36:07):
was a troop commander on theinvasion of Cambodia. He was in
the 11th ACR at the time. And hehad done tours before that. My
the battalion commanders,Vietnam at every noncommissioned
officer above the rank ofSergent First Class was a
Vietnam veteran. So and theyknew the deal. They they knew
the deal, they knew the deal. So
Jay Borja (36:30):
there was four of us in in my, in my Squadron, that
was all from the 101st exceptfor the squadron commander, the
squadron commander came fromsomewhere else. But he had, he
had been Namm. And he knewtactics already Vietnam in then,
Chuck Sexton (36:50):
was the mindset more than the tactics, they
weren't going to lose, and theyweren't going to have the same
thing happen again. And we werejust going to kick shit out of
them and get it over quick. Andthat, you know, I remember, as a
fly on the wall here in GeneralMcCaffrey it was who is our
Division commander, a big timewarrior, talking with our
(37:11):
Brigade commander, Paul Kern, abig time warrior. And a guy
named Terry Scott, anotherVietnam vet, big time warrior
and the Sergent Majors allgetting together. And then
specifically saying whathappened to us is not going to
happen to these guys. And Iremember that. So they had it
down to where nobody was goingto let them lose. Nobody was
(37:35):
going to stand in their way. Andso don't ever, you know, the
Vietnam vets won that war. Wemay have been the the guys on
the field, but they're the onesthat won the war for us.
Tony Nichols (37:46):
So from my perspective, they let that leash
go,
Chuck Sexton (37:49):
Oh, yeah. And they trained us too
Tony Nichols (37:51):
I was that was because there was no civilians.
It was them. And us. And I had afront row seat to that. Yeah, it
was crazy. They just, you know,fast forward 15 years. I'm an
advisor for a former RepublicanGuard.
Melody Sexton (38:06):
Yeah. Wow.
Tony Nichols (38:07):
So I got their perspective. Well, that's they
think they won the war.
Chuck Sexton (38:13):
Well, I remember talking to I talked to Funny
enough, almost, let's see. 15years later, I talked to one of
the guys that I actuallycaptured who has and he kind of
remembered, but he was in thethe Al Fah, the Parachute
Regiment. And we captured him.
And I still got his jump wingsthat I ripped off uniform. And I
(38:37):
got his squad book or hisplatoon book. But the the guys
who trained that army were theVietnam guys. And the they were
the ones that trained that forcethat problem. And I know this
sounds, you know, like an oldguy sitting back and drinking a
beer. But the reality is, isthat is a force. That probably
(38:58):
was the finest that has beenfielded since 1945.
Tony Nichols (39:06):
And I think we get you know,
Chuck Sexton (39:11):
we were not sensitive. I can tell you. I was
not sensitive after myexperiences in Korea.
Tony Nichols (39:23):
Remember, the first time I saw a woman in like
three months? Well, I was like,What is she doing there?
Chuck Sexton (39:28):
There's what everybody would always want to
listen to the radio when theestou from one of the units from
first Brigade because they couldhear a woman's voice. And that
was just something verycomforting. Other than getting a
cassette tape, which my wifesent me, which were listened to
over and over and over again.
And night we listened tocassette tapes, but just hearing
that somebody else that soundeddifferent that wasn't using a
(39:52):
swear word. every other word wassomething really kind of nice to
talk. Yeah, well, yeah. No youdo what she.
Melody Sexton (40:01):
And speaking of a woman's voice How about Baghdad
Betty? Did you guys hear any ofthat?
Tony Nichols (40:06):
Never got her never heard her?
Chuck Sexton (40:09):
You guys you guys missed out? she?
Jay Borja (40:11):
She was like I know.
Hanoi... Hanoi... Yeah.
Melody Sexton (40:15):
Was it Hannah?
Chuck Sexton (40:16):
Hannah? Hannah?
Hannah.
Tony Nichols (40:18):
Something like that. Yeah.
Melody Sexton (40:19):
Did you hear her?
Jay Borja (40:19):
I heard her. Yeah. I was on guard duty. Well, Bob
Hope was in country.
Chuck Sexton (40:27):
Bob Hope
Jay Borja (40:32):
I was on guard duty.
I was in the tower. how
Chuck Sexton (40:34):
angry were you about that? how angry were you?
Jay Borja (40:37):
I was getting ready to shoot. Whatever came to come
across,
Chuck Sexton (40:52):
we would get to go back. They had a rotation that
could go back to this placecalled Halfmoon Bay and it was
an all male Saudi Arabianswimming club on the beach. It
was terrible. But I never wentback because I traded every one
of my slots I said okay, all Iwant is to go to the Bob Hope
show cuz he's i know i knowBob's gonna come to Saudi Arabia
(41:14):
he's gonna show I know Bob'sgonna be here I want to go to a
show like you are apparentlywent Oh, no. He went Bob went
Bob went the week before and Iretired and then general Kern,
he said know before the warstarted tough, Gen Kerns, My
brigade commander said okay,Chuck, I got it. You're gonna go
(41:35):
see Bob Hope that's all you wantbecause uh, you know the guys
from the second war two guysfrom Korea guys from Vietnam.
Got to see Bob Hope and that'swhat I wanted to do. And the
week before Bob Hope came allour cars in country were
cancelled by Gerald McCaffrey.
He cancelled them all becauseany vehicle was either running
(41:56):
medical supplies ammunition ormail so everything else was
dedicated man. General McCaffreyhe wouldn't even let us say so
our name tags aren't uniforms wehad we didn't have name tags
because everything was bundledwashed so you that's what they
said it was bundle wash this isVietnam stuff you know where
they kick out a bundle? Well, hecancelled it all and I felt that
(42:17):
was almost a near mutiny rightthere. I was sewing melody
Melody Sexton (42:22):
I got a letter Oh yeah, I want
Tony Nichols (42:24):
to know what kind of waffle eaten unit you were in
but we didn't have uso eatenshows you know that it was not
on bad we're seeing dirt MREsOkay, just pain in combat. I
don't have a shower.
Chuck Sexton (42:42):
Oh.
Oh you or oh you are oh yousweetheart. Oh Hold on. Let me
give you let me give you atissue
Jay Borja (42:54):
they had turkey meat in them
Chuck Sexton (42:58):
Well, speaking of chow, 90 days Chicken Cacciatore
every hot meal every day becausenot after day 40 our our cook
was so lazy. That he went thepalettes that were laid out you
(43:21):
know they have palettes andthere's there's breakfast
palettes there's lunch palettesand they're broken based on you
go to each one of the meals andyou can pick. no. lazy goes to
the one palette that was allChicken cacciatore because
there's all chicken cacciatoreshorting the chicken breast and
you had roast beef which was theguy roast beef man you were
good. You must have been in acav unit but we we had chicken
(43:48):
cacciatore t rations every day.
And and the one time that hetried to make amends is when he
almost destroyed he took outmore American soldiers than
Saddam he
Jay Borja (43:59):
he went dysentery Yeah.
Chuck Sexton (44:02):
He went downtown on the on the civilian market in
the Ville and he bought tomatoesand he cut up the tomatoes and
put them on a on a salad fromthe the lettuce that he got from
downtown. And he fed us a saladand everybody got och nods
revenge and it wiped out abrigade of the 24th Division had
Saddam come across just rolledover never I never have I
(44:29):
contemplated suicide like that.
That was and it was a greatlatrine to go to too by the way.
Yeah, the burnout latrine andlove a lovely thing.
Jay Borja (44:38):
We did that in Viet Nam
Chuck Sexton (44:43):
Oh, it's terrible burn. When we hit that was the
Olympics year 90 was theOlympics year. So we had we had
the start of the Olympics, thatcompany Olympics and they took a
barrel of shit up to the top ofthe one hill that was around us
and everybody and everybody wasIn their long johns in formation
(45:03):
are all the kid ran up the hnever to repeat
Jay Borja (45:17):
that's why you were introduced when you first get in
country.
Chuck Sexton (45:19):
Yeah, shit burner.
Melody Sexton (45:21):
Oh really?
Jay Borja (45:22):
Oh yeah, that was you you go into the like this area
full of tabs and full foSoldiers, and you know they're
all waiting to be assigned to aunit yeah you were there for a
week you were burning oh yeah
Chuck Sexton (45:48):
yes Cami net pull tape to to to stir it that was
always a pleasant thing
Tony Nichols (45:56):
I really want to know because you didn't ever
burn shit because you were anofficer I was a private I burned
lots of shit it's 20% mo gas 80%diesel Yeah,
Chuck Sexton (46:06):
if you get the mixture right, but if you get
the mixture wrong, it'll explode
Jay Borja (46:12):
Dont be standing there
Tony Nichols (46:14):
and nothing if you use all just Mo gas
Chuck Sexton (46:17):
Oh no, no, no No do
Tony Nichols (46:18):
because instead of a three hour detail it turns
into a one hour
Jay Borja (46:23):
or using incendiary grenade
Chuck Sexton (46:24):
I remember it explode I remember it exploding
on guys because they did use toohot of a gas mix.
Tony Nichols (46:30):
It's an art and I apparently everyone else yeah. I
was really good at it
Jay Borja (46:36):
He was a chemist.
Chuck Sexton (46:39):
Fashion Design.
Tony Nichols (46:40):
You know we all have gifts that the lord gives
us
Jay Borja (46:44):
And shit Burning's not one of them.
Tony Nichols (46:49):
I'm a 360 degree soldier. I'm either dealing
death or burning shit neverstop. Constantly is
Jay Borja (46:58):
he's one or the other. Yeah.
Melody Sexton (47:00):
Oh my gosh. All right. Last question. Last
question. You guys spent a lotof time in the desert waiting
for this all to kick off. And sowhen the air war started, what
did you think were you like oh,finally this is it. We're going
to move? Or you know, what inthe world did you think when
that happened?
Tony Nichols (47:20):
Well, again, I was private and that was me and my
buddy sip tack. You know, wealways did everything together.
We're sitting there on the rampand it was like it was dark.
It's so dark. You can't see yourhand.
Chuck Sexton (47:29):
Everything
Tony Nichols (47:30):
Yeah, you can't see. Then it goes radio Okay,
the air war started and we justgrabbed the ammo cans turn
shovin bullets into themagazine. They wouldn't let us
load until the war started. Sothen we got all our combat loads
out. Everybody starts throwingtow missiles in the launchers
Melody Sexton (47:47):
you're ready within an hour right to go you
Tony Nichols (47:50):
know just picture the guy from Mad Max with the
Mohawk shoulder back now.
Chuck Sexton (47:56):
The humongous
Jay Borja (47:59):
no we had general Schwarzkopf hold our s3 and says
Be prepared because the firstlaunch is getting ready to to go
Melody Sexton (48:17):
and just reminding everybody you were
attached to the Air Force. Yeah.
Jay Borja (48:21):
We were we were right there. The artillery and the
rocket launchers. And Whoa,yeah. That's all you hear. You
were trying to take a nap.
Because you've had a long roadMarch to get there. And the
first thing year was that rocketcoming out of that pot. And then
(48:43):
the long five, five and thenit's, it's now we're never Here
we go. And then we were aboutthree o'clock, four o'clock that
morning where we startedbreaching the berm.
Tony Nichols (49:02):
But I wouldn't die until Yeah, we
Chuck Sexton (49:06):
Airforce nailed him for a bunch of when it I
remember it happened. And thennobody told us that it was going
to happen. But you knewsomething was going on. Because
all of a sudden mlrs startedkicking in and they were
shooting the URL. The multiplelaunch rocket system was
shooting at all the enemy radarsites that were they all arrayed
(49:26):
along the border. So we startedI remember the MLRs is kicking
in. It's like, Oh, this issomething's happening. And they
hit they hit all the rocket andthen next thing I remember
seeing was all these zoomiescoming over us just hauling and
the one way you could tellthey're on our side was they had
the lights on. And you could seeas they were going in once once
(49:49):
they cross the border the lightsgo off. And you see the zoomies
going up to hit all the all thedifferent positions
Melody Sexton (49:55):
oir planes?
Yeah, the radios Oh yeah, thefast Movers. Yeah. And then
because they didn't send the a10s until till later on after
the the big the big and thenthen the buff came in then the B
52 started coming in it was likeand you started hearing boom
boom and then the via theVietnam guys it's like Arc Light
(50:16):
our light Arc Light
Jay Borja (50:18):
there we go
Chuck Sexton (50:19):
and you just see that on the horizon just flash
flash flash flash flash and thatwent on for 30 days.
Tony Nichols (50:24):
Yeah, I was still sitting yeah eating memory yeah
well and guard duty and I got itgot pretty good morning.
Chuck Sexton (50:30):
Oh, they're gonna they're gonna shoot us. Good
Melody Sexton (50:33):
morning to six in the morning. Yes, because
Tony Nichols (50:36):
I was a private and I was new so i i
Chuck Sexton (50:39):
know you were a mail clerk. Dude.
Jay Borja (50:43):
I was waiting for puff the magic dragon to come
through.
Chuck Sexton (50:46):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, they did too. That was
uh,
Melody Sexton (50:50):
which one was that which plane
Chuck Sexton (50:51):
AC 130.s They, they there was this. This one.
After they knocked out theythought they'd knocked out all
these different sites. And therewas one that was called a fan
song radar, which is one of thebig air defense radars that the
Russians had given them and theRussians were actually running
it because you could hear himtalking in Russian back and
forth on the different nets. Andthere was one right along the
(51:13):
borders. And it was spinning.
You know, it had a it had a topon it that spun the radar dish
was spinning on top of it. Andthey hit that thing with mlrs.
They hit that thing with eightinch, they hit it with 105
millimeter howitzer. 155millimeter howitzers. They hit
it with fast Movers. And thething kept spinning. That's how
they were registering it. Okay,it's still spinning because the
(51:35):
Iraqis would turn radars on andoff. Well, they're like, oh,
man, this thing. We can't killit. We can't kill it. So they
called it they called it an ac130. And it just drilled just
wipe wipe dto clean, but thething was still spinning. Well,
then they send the cabvguys fromthe cabvup to look at it. And
they're like, oh, man,everything here is ctompelyt
destroyed. They look like Swisscheese. But the little dish was
(51:56):
still turning like a windmill
Jay Borja (52:05):
like they're not doing anything. around.
Tony Nichols (52:09):
Oh, yeah, there's like seven. There's like 70
pairs of boots. Where the Iraqisa hand with a sandwich in
Chuck Sexton (52:20):
the for that fan song radar every night. Oh,
we're gonna hit the fan songagain. We're hitting the fan
song.
Tony Nichols (52:27):
Hardcore dog on Turkey.
Chuck Sexton (52:32):
Yeah, the cav came I was like, oh, man, it's
completely
Jay Borja (52:38):
missed it.
Chuck Sexton (52:42):
The fans on radar?
Melody Sexton (52:44):
Well, I think that leads us right up to Desert
Storm to the, to the launch ofthe ground war. So we're gonna
go ahead and end it right there.
I hope you guys will all comeback. So we can finish the
story. And that'll be our nextpodcast episode will be about
the storm.
Chuck Sexton (53:01):
Yeah, thanks for giving us the time.
Tony Nichols (53:03):
Absolutely.
Wonderful to share the, youknow, my contribution to
America's freedom,
Chuck Sexton (53:09):
the true hero.
Melody Sexton (53:20):
Well, and we hope and we hope everybody enjoyed
this podcast today, Vets On TheNet. We hope you'll join us
again for our future episodes.
If you like what you've heard,please subscribe. I would like
to thank our sponsor for thisbroadcast. It's Eric and Callie
MacMahan. They are longtimefinancial supporters of the
Flint Hills veterans coalition.
(53:42):
And we just want to appreciatetheir they're making this
broadcast possible for us today.
Also, I'd like to thank DaveLewis of Dave Lewis
entertainment. Yep, he gave us Ididn't have to buy equipment. So
I'm very happy with that
Tony Nichols (53:59):
the great American and
Chuck Sexton (54:00):
if anybody's got any specific questions to send
them in, and we'll do our bestto answer
Melody Sexton (54:04):
Yep, I will on our website when we post this on
the website. If you go to ourwebsite, Flint Hills
veterans.org I'll post links tothe plains of Desert Storm and
Desert Shield. I'll post linksto different things that we've
talked about today. So you'll beable to kind of learn more and
you know, let's have aconversation about this.
Tony Nichols (54:24):
Why do you Sagittarius?
Chuck Sexton (54:25):
Why do you fight for the bush?
Tony Nichols (54:29):
Why do you fight for the bush?
Chu (54:34):
American soldier Why do you fight for the bush
Melody Sexton (54:45):
thanks for listening till next time.
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