January 23, 2024 • 30 mins
Vestibular disease can be a perplexing issue for dog owners. In this episode, our dedicated veterinarian breaks down the complexities of this condition, providing insights into its recurrence, potential causes, and available treatments. Our veterinarian shares personal experiences, success stories, and practical tips for pet owners navigating the challenges of canine vestibular issues.
What you will learn in this episode:
- Recognizing Symptoms:
- Identify signs of vestibular disease in dogs, such as sudden loss of balance, head tilt, and abnormal eye movements
- Understand that these symptoms can be distressing for both dogs and their owners, requiring attention
- When to Seek Veterinary Care:
- Learn that veterinary attention is crucial when observing severe or sudden onset vestibular symptoms
- Understand the importance of ruling out potential causes for symptoms, such as strokes, inner ear infections, or brain tumors
- Distinguishing Vestibular Disease:
- Explore how veterinarians differentiate idiopathic vestibular disease from more serious conditions through physical examinations and diagnostic tests
- Home Care vs. Neurology Consultation:
- Gain insights into the decision-making process between opting for supportive home care and pursuing a neurology consultation or diagnostic imaging like an MRI
- Understand that some cases may show significant improvement with supportive care, while others may require further investigation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Sugerman (00:01):
Alright, so we had this really cute little Shiba
Inu named Lucy that came in tosee me last week.
She was super sweet, evendespite just everything that was
going on with her.
Her parents came in to mebecause they came home and found
that she was alligator rollingon the floor.
Unable to stand up.
And if you know what I mean bythat, or if you don't know what
I mean by that, it's basicallywhere if you imagine you taught
(00:24):
a dog how to roll over and overand over again, and they just
did it constantly, and theycan't sit still, that's what an
alligator rolling is literallyan alligator that rolls in the
water.
So anyways, they rushed littleLucy right in because they were
actually worried that she mighthave had a broken neck and they
were just besides themselvesbecause they had even left her
alone.
So I looked into her eyes and Itold them that that's likely not
(00:47):
what happened, that she mostlikely did not break her neck
and they didn't have to reallyfeel bad about leaving her alone
because this was going to happenregardless of whether she was
alone or she was with them.
So what is it that I told themthen?
What did I see in Lucy's eyesthat without even feeling her
neck to tell you that she likelydid not have a broken neck and
(01:07):
instead something else was goingon.
So keep listening to find outabout what this neurological
mystery is that was affectingpoor little Lucy.
Hi, and welcome toVetsplanation.
I'm your veterinary host, Dr.
Sugerman, and I'm going to teachyou about veterinary medicine.
In this podcast, we can divedeeper into the understanding of
what our pets are going throughand break down medical terms
(01:29):
into easier to understand chunksof information.
Just a quick disclaimer, thispodcast is for informational
purposes only.
This is not meant to be adiagnosis for your pet.
If you have questions aboutdiagnostics or treatment
options, please talk to yourveterinarian about those things.
Remember, we are all practicingveterinary medicine and medicine
is not an exact science.
(01:50):
Your veterinarian may havedifferent treatment options and
different opinions.
The information I provide hereis to help pet parents have a
better understanding about theirpets.
If you like our podcast, pleaseconsider sharing this podcast
with at least one friend or justsomebody else who has pets as
well.
Now, let's jump into this week'sepisode.
All right.
Welcome back to Vetsplanationthis week.
(02:11):
As always, I am your veterinaryhost, Dr.
Sugerman.
So let's continue on aboutLucy's story.
So what I saw in Lucy's eyes wassomething called nystagmus.
This is where the eyes just dartback and forth in a rapid
motion, sometimes in a slowermotion, but most of the time
it's in a very quick motion.
They can either go up and down,which is called vertical
(02:33):
nystagmus, or they can go sideto side, which is called
horizontal nystagmus.
Or the third kind of nystagmusis going to be where it goes
like kind of in a semicircle.
And that's called rotarynystagmus.
So this is one of the classicsigns of something we call
vestibular disease.
So we're gonna talk a little bitof anatomy and physiology here
(02:54):
so you have an understandingabout what I'm talking about.
The vestibular system is whathelps your body balance so that
you can find or keep your wholebody in equilibrium.
So it stands straight, you knowwhere up is, you know where down
is, you know where side to sideis.
Now there are multiple portionsto the vestibular system.
For the vestibular system, weare usually talking about the
(03:14):
inner ear.
So you have the outer ear, sothat's like the part you can put
your finger into the canal,right?
The middle ear is basicallywhere your eardrum is, which is
also called the tympanicmembrane.
And the inner ear is where thesevital organs are housed that
kind of help us sort out whenwe're hearing things and also
helps with our balance.
(03:35):
In the inner ear, there's thistiny little bone that has this
fluid in it that helps you tokind of like know again where
you are in space.
Those are called thesemicircular canals, but it's
this tiny little bone that justhelps you figure out where you
are.
So like I said, it tells youkind of like whether you're
upright, if you're laying down,if you're upside down, that's,
(03:56):
that's how your body actuallyknows.
And it's the biggest reason,like, when you get off of a
roller coaster, or let's say yougo on the teacups at Disneyland,
or you go on like that spinnything that's at the fairs,
right?
The tilt a wheel, that's whatit's called, the tilt a wheels.
If you go on all of those,there's this fluid that kind of
touches all those little hairsin that little semicircle,
(04:16):
circular canal.
And it tells you, that you're,that it's just like spinning in
circles.
So that fluid when it touchesthe hairs, it also goes up to
another part of the vestibularsystem.
And that other part is calledcranial nerve 8, or also known
as vestibular cochlear nerve, tothe brain to tell you that
(04:38):
there's something wrong.
Like you're not upright, you'renot standing still.
The cranial nerve just meansthat it's a nerve in the head
and vestibular cochlear refersto the vestibular system, but
also the cochlea, which isanother bone in the body and
specifically in that inner earthat helps you with auditory or
basically hearing.
(04:59):
There are multiple parts of thebrain that are part of this
system as well, the vestibularsystem.
So we're not really going totalk about each individual
portion.
We're just going to lump it intojust the brain.
Just for, simplicity's sake.
So essentially, we said there'sthree parts, three main parts
that make up our vestibularsystem.
So you have the inner earportion of it, the nerve portion
(05:20):
of it, and the brain portion ofit.
Now, when there's somethingreally awry with the vestibular
system, then we start seeingsome weird signs.
These all come on very suddenly.
Think about when you get offthat rollercoaster, you've
gotten off the rollercoaster andimmediately you're just moving
around, right?
You can't really like get yourbalance right away.
(05:40):
And that tilt a wheel thing.
That's how quick it is when allthis happens in our pets as
well.
It's a very sudden thing.
Usually our pets are fallingover to one side.
You might see like their eyesdarting back and forth, like we
talked about earlier, callednystagmus.
You might see their head tiltover to the same way that they
fall over.
And then you might also noticethem being very nauseous, so
(06:02):
like drooling excessively, orlicking their lips, smacking
their tongue basically.
Sometimes even vomiting, or notreally wanting to eat.
And that's because like theirbrain is continuously on this
rollercoaster while this isgoing on with them.
So it makes it very difficultfor them to be able to do these
things.
They also might have difficultywalking because their head being
tipped over to one side.
(06:23):
And these are all like prettyclassic signs for this
vestibular syndrome.
You might also see themalligator rolling like we talked
about with Lucy.
And then you may even see themhaving a problem with like their
feet.
They may not be able to feelwhere their feet are or know
that where their feet are incontext where their brain is.
Those are called CP deficits,which I'll get into later on.
(06:45):
But these are all really scarysigns, right?
So let's talk about the possiblecauses of what vestibular
syndrome is.
The first thing that we usuallylook at as a clinician is
whether the pet has verticalnystagmus.
So going up and down, or if theyhave horizontal nystagmus.
Meaning those eyes areflickering sideways, if they're
(07:05):
going sideways, then we're morelikely thinking that this is
something to do with either theinner ear or the nerve.
If the nystagmus or that eyesflickering is going up and down,
then I'm a lot more worriedabout a bigger problem with the
brain.
When the nystagmus is rotary,remember it's like the semi
circle one, that really doesn'thelp us, unfortunately, like
(07:25):
that can happen in any of thosecases.
So let's break these down then.
So if the eyes are flickeringback and forth, so we're going
horizontal nystagmus, then themost common cause is actually
what we call idiopathicvestibular disease, or old dog
vestibular disease is the othercommon name for this.
Idiopathic is just like amedical way of saying we don't
(07:47):
really know what's causing this,it just happens, unfortunately.
So if this idiopathic or old dogvestibular is the case, then
most of those patients actuallystart to improve pretty quickly
over about two to three days andare usually back to normal
within about one to two weeks.
The other common thing that wesee with the horizontal
nystagmus is something calledotitis media or otitis interna.
(08:12):
You guys are learning a lot ofterms today.
That just basically means thatthey have an inner ear
infection.
A middle ear infection or aninner ear infection or some sort
of inflammation of those areas.
And that can happen from havingan ear infection that's from the
outside that spreads inwards andcan cause a lot of inflammation
even spreading inwards.
It can happen from having aneardrum rupture and then that
(08:34):
infection getting deep inside orinflammation just being deep
inside there.
And if that's the case, thisneeds to be treated with
medication that's very specificfor these types of ear
infections.
This is not something that youcan just use any over the
counter ear medication for.
Because unfortunately, if youput those ear medications in and
that eardrum is ruptured, itcould cause permanent damage.
(08:57):
So we don't want to do that.
So if for some reason you arealready giving medications in
the ear and we worry about aruptured eardrum, definitely
tell the doctor what medicationyou've been using so that they
know, but also stop using any ofthose medications.
If you start seeing those signs,a lot of people are like, oh,
they have an ear infection.
So they start using drops fromover the counter, but we don't
want to do that.
(09:17):
Because like I said, that couldactually make things worse.
If this is a ruptured eardrumand we have to use a medication
for that, a lot of times we'regoing to be doing one that's by
mouth, called orally by mouth,and they take it over a long
period of time.
It's six to eight weeks ofmedication.
There are certain medicationsthat you can use if there is a
ruptured eardrum, but it's avery, very short list, so
(09:40):
usually the veterinarians needto prescribe that if that's the
case.
It also really depends on whatkind of ear infection that is
too.
There are different types of earinfections because there are
different types of infections.
So we need to know exactly whichone it is, again, to know how to
clear that up.
But like I said, it's a prettylong 6 to 8 weeks of medication
when we do that.
But after that ear infection iscleared up, most of them go back
(10:02):
to normal after that.
If it's not treated, then theywill stay the same or get worse.
So now let's talk about whenthat nystagmus or eye flickering
goes up and down.
Now I'm more worried aboutsomething bigger.
Something in the brain.
So did you notice like whatthese signs sound like in
people?
So if I describe some of thesethings like walking as if
(10:24):
they're drunk, falling over tothe side, maybe slurring our
words, dogs can't really slurtheir barks.
But we can slur our words.
So one big differential forthese guys is what we call an
ischemic stroke, meaning thatthere was a blood clot or
something that occurred thatstopped oxygen from getting into
the brain correctly.
(10:44):
Sounds very much like a strokein people, right?
So most of these patients, theywill usually improve within
hours to weeks, even without anytreatment at all.
Just like our patients with ourold dog vestibular disease or
idiopathic vestibular disease,whatever you'd like to call it.
Most of those will get betterwithout doing any treatment.
(11:06):
They don't need antibiotics oranything.
Usually we're giving themmedications.
We'll talk about that a littlebit later.
Now, the last big cause of thisis going to be something we call
neoplasia.
Basically, some cancer is alsocommon.
This can be a cancer thatstarted in the head or it can be
the vestibular cochlear nerves,the nerve we talked about in the
face, facial nerve.
(11:27):
You could have a mass that's inthe nerve that could be causing
this.
This can also be cancer thatstarted somewhere else and then
has metastasized or basicallymoved into the brain.
With this type, the symptomswill stay the same or just get
slowly worse.
If it's a slow growing tumor, orif it's a more faster growing
(11:49):
tumor, then it justprogressively gets worse without
any treatment or without anymedications for them.
Now there are a number of otherless common causes that can
cause these things such asthings like hypothyroidism,
meaning they have low thyroid,certain toxins can do this,
certain medications like highdoses of metronidazole, which is
(12:09):
a common medication thatveterinaries put pets on for
having diarrhea, or somethingcalled meningioencephalitis,
which I have covered in themeningitis episode before.
So like those kind of things cancause this vestibular syndrome
as well.
So what kind of diagnostics dowe do then to try to figure out
what the cause is?
(12:31):
The first test is basicallylooking into the dog's ears with
a scope we call an otoscope.
Oto just means the ears, by theway.
But we're looking to see if thetympanic membrane, remember that
eardrum, is ruptured.
That is our first clue as towhether there's an inner ear
infection.
Even if everything looks clean,and the eardrum looks closed,
(12:51):
there could still be an innerear infection that we just may
not be able to see.
It's a rare thing, but you canget infections just through the
bloodstream that can go to theinner ear.
A ruptured eardrum, now that islike a really good indication
this is probably an ear problemthat's causing this.
Now most clinicians from therewill probably talk about, if all
(13:12):
that looks normal, they're gonnastart talking about doing like
blood work or checking theirblood pressure.
The bloodwork is not going toshow if Lucy had a stroke or
brain tumor, unfortunatelybloodwork doesn't do that.
But it does show if there's somesort of other underlying cause
as to why that patient mighthave had a stroke.
So about 50 percent of strokesin dogs are caused by some sort
(13:35):
of underlying cause, such asthings like high blood pressure,
kidney disease, low thyroid,that hypothyroidism, cushing's
disease, which Dr.
Z covered, so you shoulddefinitely listen to that one
again.
Or a problem with proteins intheir body, and it could be a
problem with like blood clottingalong with a lot of other things
as well.
So blood work and blood pressureare important to rule those
(13:57):
things out to see if those couldhave been the cause of a stroke,
so we can get those figured outbefore the pet has another
stroke.
Next, if all of those thingscome back normal, we have to
start talking about advancedimaging at that point.
A CT is great for looking atthings like the middle ear.
You can see signs ofinflammation or a mass that's in
there.
But unfortunately, it's not thebest for looking at things like
(14:20):
brain tumors or signs of astroke.
An MRI is actually going to bethe best tool for that.
And that is usually done at somesort of specialty hospital, so
if you're not at a specialtyhospital already, usually it
means either transferring themto a specialty hospital, or they
go home, and then you make anappointment to go see a
neurologist, who then does theMRI, or whoever runs the MRI,
(14:41):
there are many differentspecialties that do that, but
pretty typically, it's going tobe the neurologist that do that.
So MRIs, I do usually tellpeople like they can be really
expensive.
If you're going to do an MRI orif you're considering doing an
MRI, I always suggest likecalling the hospital first and
asking to see like how much theMRI would be.
Or if it's a transfer, askingthe doctor who's transferring if
(15:03):
they could ask how much the MRIis going to be.
Just so you have some sort ofunderstanding as to how much
it's going to be and how muchyou're going to have to pay
upfront and whether that's adoable thing.
I usually tell people though,if, if you would go through
brain surgery for your dog, thena hundred percent, absolutely go
do that MRI because you couldpotentially, save their life by
(15:25):
doing this brain surgery.
If they found some sort of tumorthat was in there, if they found
a stroke, there's nothing you'regoing to be able to do about
that, but at least you'd have ananswer and know that you don't
have to go to surgery.
If you couldn't do brain surgeryor didn't want to do brain
surgery, then that's yourchoice.
You don't have to do that.
And otherwise, if you did theMRI, really, you'd just be
(15:46):
finding out an answer, but notdoing anything about it.
And unfortunately, there aresome that are inoperable tumors.
There's no way they're going tobe able to operate, even if they
did do surgery.
But if you would do surgery,then I would say just prepare
for that, that you would go todo that MRI.
And ideally, that would begreat, right?
If everybody could do the MRI,that'd be fantastic, but some
(16:07):
people can't afford that.
And you don't have to feel badabout that.
There are other places, too,that you can also look into.
A lot of times there's besidesthe specialty hospitals, you can
always look into going to thevet schools.
There are a lot of vet schoolsthat have MRIs and are able to
do that, and they can do it formuch less because it's students
who are learning those things.
(16:28):
So that's another option aswell.
You can always ask about thenearby vet schools and see if
they will do them.
So in Lucy's case, I did look ather ears, which were very clean.
They were immaculate.
We looked at her blood work, herblood pressure, and those were
amazing as well, especially forher age.
I talked to Lucy's mom who likeclearly loves Lucy a lot, but
(16:50):
she only discussed the optionsof doing a CT or an MRI versus
just giving her supportive careat home for two weeks to see if
she would improve.
Remember that for an old dog,vestibular or strokes, they will
either get better or they'rejust going to stay the same.
So it could be possible that shedoes get better from this.
If she has a brain tumor, she'slikely going to get worse.
(17:11):
So over that two week timeperiod, we would know.
We did talk about how I wasconcerned about her having a
brain tumor, especially with theway that she was alligator
rolling, that really concernedme for that.
Her mom was not able to affordan MRI, but she was willing to
give her that supportive carefor the next two weeks to see if
she did improve.
And so by supportive care, whatdo I mean?
(17:32):
I mean that usually is givingher medication just to help her
with her nausea.
We're not going to make thevestibular syndrome go away.
There's no medication for that.
It's really just, her brain hasto fix itself at that point.
But also just helping her getaround at home.
So when mom is gone, it meanskeeping her food and water
pretty close by and puttingpotty pads down so that she's in
(17:53):
a nice comfortable area and shedoesn't have to go very far and
hurt herself when she's movingaround.
But when mom is home, reallythat means that we need to get
her to move around more.
Think about people who havestrokes.
We want their brain to figureout how to function again, how
to move again, how to talkagain, how to respond to where
their limbs are again.
So it's very similar for ourdogs.
(18:15):
We want her to be able to gethelp in trying to learn how to
walk in a straight line again,and then starting to move around
objects again, like chairs andfurniture.
It's basically like doingphysical therapy at home and a
lot of these older dogs aregoing to become more stiff and
they're going to lose musclemass if we don't help them move
around and keep up theirstrength, which means that they
(18:37):
have so much more to overcome ifwe have to, get over the
vestibular syndrome and thenstart getting our muscle back
again.
So we got to make sure that whenthese guys go home that, they
are being worked with at home totry to do some of those physical
therapy things to help keep themup.
We're actually going to betalking to Ken in a couple of
weeks, who specializes inphysical therapy.
So I bet he's going to have somereally great ideas for us as
(18:59):
well, on what we can do at homefor these guys.
Once their brain and thevestibular system kind of
normalizes, then most dogs willgo back to normal within about
two weeks.
Some have a slight head tilt,but the majority of people don't
really notice that.
Really, it's just like theirparents that notice they have a
tiny head tilt.
Or when they come into theoffice to see me, I'm like, do
you notice that your dog has asmall head tilt?
(19:21):
And they're like, oh yeah, theyhad this problem, a couple of
years ago.
So most people don't notice itthough.
Now, for those pets who are backto normal in about two to three
week time span, the most commonquestion I get after they've
left the office because it's sooverwhelming when this first all
happens, but they will usuallyemail me then and ask, will this
(19:43):
happen again?
Unfortunately, it is definitelypossible for this to happen
again, just like how people canhave multiple strokes, with old
dog vestibular disease oridiopathic disease, we call it,
it can happen again in a matterof months or more.
And they more or less have kindof the same recovery time each
time.
With strokes, this can happenagain in days to weeks even, or
(20:06):
more.
It could still be months afterthat, but it still can happen
pretty quickly right afterwards.
Again, just like with people.
So what about for those patientsthat don't improve in two weeks,
or they just get worse?
So those are the ones that weworry more so that this is some
sort of brain tumor or a severestroke.
So I would say the majority ofthese patients are typically
humanely euthanized.
(20:27):
It's a really difficult decisionto make, but it's just not fair
for them to become worse and nothave a good quality of life.
A few will go to the neurologistafter that two weeks and perform
an MRI, and then decide fromthere.
And that's okay, too.
You can try treating them fortwo weeks, and if they don't
improve, see the neurologist.
I usually tell people if you'regoing to go that route, call to
(20:48):
get an appointment, as soon asthis happens.
So that way, you can get anappointment within two weeks or
so.
And if they've improved, thengreat.
You can cancel that appointmentat that time.
But if they haven't improved,then you have that already set
up.
Even though you've given themthat two week time period.
But it can be really hard to getin, and so you want to have that
all set up and ready to go.
(21:09):
Alright, so let's get back toLucy.
So what happened to little Lucy?
Like I said, I had thediscussion with her mom, she
could either be referred for anMRI, or she could take her home
for just supportive care, and wewouldn't have an answer, but,
we'd be able to see if she doesimprove.
And mom decided to take her homewith some instructions about
what to do and how to care forher.
(21:30):
A few days later, I actually gotan email from Lucy's mom stating
that Lucy did not seem to beimproving and she wanted more
information about like where shecould see a neurologist and get
a neurology consultation.
She still really wasn't sureabout an MRI and just really
didn't think she could affordit, but she at least wanted to
talk to a neurologist.
So I did give her thatinformation about where she
(21:51):
could like, find localneurologists and then she said
she was going to call them andfigure out from there what she
was going to do.
But about a week later, Iactually got an another email
from Lucy's mom and I assumed itwas going to be about the
neurology appointment or thatshe was doing worse but she
actually informed me that Lucywas doing fantastic, that she
was doing great.
She was up and walking.
(22:12):
She had a minor head tilt butmostly she felt like she had
most of her personality back atthat point.
She didn't go to see theneurologist after all because
she had greatly improved.
And so she just canceled herappointment.
I was really happy to hear thatnews for little Lucy, because
she was such a nice dog, withsuch a nice mom.
But I thought, for sure, she wasgoing to get worse and she was
(22:33):
going to be a brain tumor.
So, I was really happy when Iwas wrong.
If Lucy's mom happens to belistening to this, you can give
her pet for me.
Alright, we're going to talkabout our fun animal fact for
today.
So imagine this.
You decided to take a vacationfrom the snow, right?
Snow and ice all around us.
So you decided to go to southernFlorida.
(22:55):
You're hanging out all day atthe beach, because it's highs of
70s today, so in Florida they'relike, ah, that's so cold.
But for everybody who's in thesnow, they're like, oh my gosh,
this is amazing.
But it starts to rain there andthen there's a chance of
thunderstorms later.
So, you know time to hit thehighway in your fancy
convertible that you rentedbecause you're feeling pretty
relaxed.
Suddenly you notice all thesecars in front of you just
(23:17):
swerving and slowing down andthen there's suddenly things
moving across the highway.
So as you get closer and closer,you realize it's not just
something It's...
it's actually some thingsinstead.
These things look like they'rekind of like swimming across the
highway.
So if you get even closer, youslow down, and that there's
(23:38):
actually like a group of fishwalking.
Yes, I said walking.
There's a group of fish walkingacross the highway.
If you've ever seen this inFlorida, or if you are in
Florida or have seen it, youplease tell me if you've seen
this.
Just comment and let me know.
But I'm talking about walkingcatfish.
So when you think of a fish, I'msure you imagine fish in water,
(24:00):
swimming around, blowing littlebubbles out.
No, no, my first thought is notabout a fish walking across the
highway.
But these walking fish areactually native to Southeast
Asia and they're a reallyimportant food source there.
So they're great for sellingbecause they can survive out of
water for quite a while.
And therefore, when the buyersbuy them like they're really
(24:23):
fresh still.
So they can pretty much justtake them home and eat them very
fresh, but they've become areally invasive species in
places like eastern India,Pakistan, the Philippines.
And of course, we have lots ofweird animals that invaded
Florida.
So real quick.
I do want to point out that.
An invasive species, it actuallymeans that they do do harm to
(24:46):
the environment and do notoriginally belong there.
So it's not just like they're anon native species and they
don't really do harm.
So they are an invasive species,meaning that they do harm to the
environment.
They're actually illegal to havein many countries, including the
U.S., the reason why is becausethey can invade areas very, very
quickly.
For instance in Florida, theywere well documented to have
(25:09):
been there by the 1960s near thepretty much just the Palm Beach
area.
The species spread over 20counties in 10 years though.
One researcher had stated thatthere had been as many as 3,000
pounds per acre of these fish,which is just astonishing.
They usually thrive in lakes andrivers.
But lots of fish do there,right?
(25:30):
So they're really actually knownfor surviving in really, really
murky waters where there's not alot of oxygen and things like
ponds and canals, ditches andswamps, and even flooded
prairies.
They have really tiny eyes, sothey really don't need to see
their food.
Plus they really don't care muchabout what they're eating.
They're really not picky at all.
(25:52):
They'll eat kind of anything,any eggs, bugs, anything that
they can pretty much fit intheir mouth.
Other fish.
And so the really cool thingabout them though, is their
ability to walk on land, right?
Like how many fish can walk onland?
So how do they do this?
They have little spikes, so likespines is what they call them
towards the back and bottom oftheir body so that they can move
(26:15):
them back and forth, like almostas if their feet.
So the kind of like moving backand forth so that they are
walking across the freeway.
They can use their frontflippers as well to kind of like
move as well, right?
But the back, the back you wouldthink it's more like a snake,
but it's like a slitheringthing.
They actually use those littlespikes to be able to walk.
Alright, so they figured out howto walk now.
(26:36):
What about the fact that theyare still out of water, right?
Fish cannot breathe out ofwater, because fish need to use
their gills, move water throughtheir gills in order to be able
to breathe, which I probablyshould do like an episode on
because I think it's a super,super cool thing on how fish
actually breathe.
Anyways, these catfish havetheir own unique breathing
(26:56):
apparatus.
It's called a suprabranchialarborescent organ.
So luckily, if you know a littlebit of Latin, you can kind of
like figure it a little bit outand break it down.
But supra means above.
Branchial means gills.
And then arborescent, I'mwondering if my wife knows what
this one is, because she listensto a very specific podcast about
(27:18):
this.
Arborescent means tree, becausethe little organ has like these
branching appearances that kindof make it look like a small
tree.
So the little suprabranchialarborescent organ is basically
like a lung that allows thecatfish to breathe atmospheric
air, meaning air that's in ouratmosphere, not in the water.
(27:39):
So these two unique features, itallows these catfish to move
from one murky pond to a ditchor somewhere else really easily.
So they can live a few hours outof water if needed.
But there are some rareinstances of them surviving out
of water for even up to 18hours.
So they can like move from oneplace to another because if all
(28:00):
of their food supply is gone orthe water is, let's say the
water is all, dried up fromheat.
They can move to other areas ifthey need to.
So they don't sound too bad,right?
I mean like, they're not verycute by any means.
But, they do like to live inareas where a lot of oxygen
isn't available.
They like to eat all these weirdbugs.
(28:21):
They live in places that otherfish don't really want to, you
know, live in.
So what makes them so invasive?
For one thing, because they cancross the road, there have been
reports of hordes of catfishwalking across these roads and
being run over.
And they're very slimy, whichthen makes the roads extremely
slick and have had numerousaccidents caused because of
(28:43):
this.
Another thing is that they caneasily invade the commercial
aquaculture facilities.
So that's where like the fishare grown rather than being
harvested from the wild.
And then they just eat hugenumbers of stock fish in there
and just eat tons of them.
So then they can't breed all ofthese fish.
And then now you have tons andtons and tons of these catfish
(29:05):
in there and not the fish thatyou're trying to breed.
Alright, that is our cool animalfact for the day.
Otherwise, I hope you havelearned some more stuff about
our weird vestibular diseasethat makes our furry little
friends a little crooked.
I'm sure they're not jealous ofroller coasters after all of
that.
So as always if you have anyquestions, you can always ask me
on our website atVetsplanationPodcast.com or I'm
(29:27):
most active on Facebook, so youcan definitely ask me there as
well.
If you have a topic that wehaven't covered or you want
covered, you'll definitely letme know that.
I'm, I'm up for covering prettymuch any topic or talking to any
specialists that need to betalked to.
Otherwise, we really want tokeep this podcast going.
We can only do that by growing.
If you enjoy this podcast,please share this with a fellow
animal lover.
(29:48):
We really would appreciate that.
The bigger we grow, the morelikely we'll be able to keep
going with our podcast.
Or you can also considerdonating on our website or at
the link that we'll have on theshow notes.
And as always, please rememberto keep your pets happy,
healthy, and safe.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you guys for listeningthis week.
If you have any questions,comments, suggestions, or you
(30:09):
just want to say hi, you canemail me at Suggs, S U G G S
VetsplanationPodcast.com orvisit the website at
VetsplanationPodcast.com or findus on Facebook, Instagram, or
TikTok at Vetsplanation.
Thank you all for listening andI'll see you back here next
week.
Alright, so we had this really cute little Shiba
Inu named Lucy that came in tosee me last week.
She was super sweet, evendespite just everything that was
going on with her.
Her parents came in to mebecause they came home and found
that she was alligator rollingon the floor.
Unable to stand up.
And if you know what I mean bythat, or if you don't know what
I mean by that, it's basicallywhere if you imagine you taught
(00:24):
a dog how to roll over and overand over again, and they just
did it constantly, and theycan't sit still, that's what an
alligator rolling is literallyan alligator that rolls in the
water.
So anyways, they rushed littleLucy right in because they were
actually worried that she mighthave had a broken neck and they
were just besides themselvesbecause they had even left her
alone.
So I looked into her eyes and Itold them that that's likely not
(00:47):
what happened, that she mostlikely did not break her neck
and they didn't have to reallyfeel bad about leaving her alone
because this was going to happenregardless of whether she was
alone or she was with them.
So what is it that I told themthen?
What did I see in Lucy's eyesthat without even feeling her
neck to tell you that she likelydid not have a broken neck and
(01:07):
instead something else was goingon.
So keep listening to find outabout what this neurological
mystery is that was affectingpoor little Lucy.
Hi, and welcome toVetsplanation.
I'm your veterinary host, Dr.
Sugerman, and I'm going to teachyou about veterinary medicine.
In this podcast, we can divedeeper into the understanding of
what our pets are going throughand break down medical terms
(01:29):
into easier to understand chunksof information.
Just a quick disclaimer, thispodcast is for informational
purposes only.
This is not meant to be adiagnosis for your pet.
If you have questions aboutdiagnostics or treatment
options, please talk to yourveterinarian about those things.
Remember, we are all practicingveterinary medicine and medicine
is not an exact science.
(01:50):
Your veterinarian may havedifferent treatment options and
different opinions.
The information I provide hereis to help pet parents have a
better understanding about theirpets.
If you like our podcast, pleaseconsider sharing this podcast
with at least one friend or justsomebody else who has pets as
well.
Now, let's jump into this week'sepisode.
All right.
Welcome back to Vetsplanationthis week.
(02:11):
As always, I am your veterinaryhost, Dr.
Sugerman.
So let's continue on aboutLucy's story.
So what I saw in Lucy's eyes wassomething called nystagmus.
This is where the eyes just dartback and forth in a rapid
motion, sometimes in a slowermotion, but most of the time
it's in a very quick motion.
They can either go up and down,which is called vertical
(02:33):
nystagmus, or they can go sideto side, which is called
horizontal nystagmus.
Or the third kind of nystagmusis going to be where it goes
like kind of in a semicircle.
And that's called rotarynystagmus.
So this is one of the classicsigns of something we call
vestibular disease.
So we're gonna talk a little bitof anatomy and physiology here
(02:54):
so you have an understandingabout what I'm talking about.
The vestibular system is whathelps your body balance so that
you can find or keep your wholebody in equilibrium.
So it stands straight, you knowwhere up is, you know where down
is, you know where side to sideis.
Now there are multiple portionsto the vestibular system.
For the vestibular system, weare usually talking about the
(03:14):
inner ear.
So you have the outer ear, sothat's like the part you can put
your finger into the canal,right?
The middle ear is basicallywhere your eardrum is, which is
also called the tympanicmembrane.
And the inner ear is where thesevital organs are housed that
kind of help us sort out whenwe're hearing things and also
helps with our balance.
(03:35):
In the inner ear, there's thistiny little bone that has this
fluid in it that helps you tokind of like know again where
you are in space.
Those are called thesemicircular canals, but it's
this tiny little bone that justhelps you figure out where you
are.
So like I said, it tells youkind of like whether you're
upright, if you're laying down,if you're upside down, that's,
(03:56):
that's how your body actuallyknows.
And it's the biggest reason,like, when you get off of a
roller coaster, or let's say yougo on the teacups at Disneyland,
or you go on like that spinnything that's at the fairs,
right?
The tilt a wheel, that's whatit's called, the tilt a wheels.
If you go on all of those,there's this fluid that kind of
touches all those little hairsin that little semicircle,
(04:16):
circular canal.
And it tells you, that you're,that it's just like spinning in
circles.
So that fluid when it touchesthe hairs, it also goes up to
another part of the vestibularsystem.
And that other part is calledcranial nerve 8, or also known
as vestibular cochlear nerve, tothe brain to tell you that
(04:38):
there's something wrong.
Like you're not upright, you'renot standing still.
The cranial nerve just meansthat it's a nerve in the head
and vestibular cochlear refersto the vestibular system, but
also the cochlea, which isanother bone in the body and
specifically in that inner earthat helps you with auditory or
basically hearing.
(04:59):
There are multiple parts of thebrain that are part of this
system as well, the vestibularsystem.
So we're not really going totalk about each individual
portion.
We're just going to lump it intojust the brain.
Just for, simplicity's sake.
So essentially, we said there'sthree parts, three main parts
that make up our vestibularsystem.
So you have the inner earportion of it, the nerve portion
(05:20):
of it, and the brain portion ofit.
Now, when there's somethingreally awry with the vestibular
system, then we start seeingsome weird signs.
These all come on very suddenly.
Think about when you get offthat rollercoaster, you've
gotten off the rollercoaster andimmediately you're just moving
around, right?
You can't really like get yourbalance right away.
(05:40):
And that tilt a wheel thing.
That's how quick it is when allthis happens in our pets as
well.
It's a very sudden thing.
Usually our pets are fallingover to one side.
You might see like their eyesdarting back and forth, like we
talked about earlier, callednystagmus.
You might see their head tiltover to the same way that they
fall over.
And then you might also noticethem being very nauseous, so
(06:02):
like drooling excessively, orlicking their lips, smacking
their tongue basically.
Sometimes even vomiting, or notreally wanting to eat.
And that's because like theirbrain is continuously on this
rollercoaster while this isgoing on with them.
So it makes it very difficultfor them to be able to do these
things.
They also might have difficultywalking because their head being
tipped over to one side.
(06:23):
And these are all like prettyclassic signs for this
vestibular syndrome.
You might also see themalligator rolling like we talked
about with Lucy.
And then you may even see themhaving a problem with like their
feet.
They may not be able to feelwhere their feet are or know
that where their feet are incontext where their brain is.
Those are called CP deficits,which I'll get into later on.
(06:45):
But these are all really scarysigns, right?
So let's talk about the possiblecauses of what vestibular
syndrome is.
The first thing that we usuallylook at as a clinician is
whether the pet has verticalnystagmus.
So going up and down, or if theyhave horizontal nystagmus.
Meaning those eyes areflickering sideways, if they're
(07:05):
going sideways, then we're morelikely thinking that this is
something to do with either theinner ear or the nerve.
If the nystagmus or that eyesflickering is going up and down,
then I'm a lot more worriedabout a bigger problem with the
brain.
When the nystagmus is rotary,remember it's like the semi
circle one, that really doesn'thelp us, unfortunately, like
(07:25):
that can happen in any of thosecases.
So let's break these down then.
So if the eyes are flickeringback and forth, so we're going
horizontal nystagmus, then themost common cause is actually
what we call idiopathicvestibular disease, or old dog
vestibular disease is the othercommon name for this.
Idiopathic is just like amedical way of saying we don't
(07:47):
really know what's causing this,it just happens, unfortunately.
So if this idiopathic or old dogvestibular is the case, then
most of those patients actuallystart to improve pretty quickly
over about two to three days andare usually back to normal
within about one to two weeks.
The other common thing that wesee with the horizontal
nystagmus is something calledotitis media or otitis interna.
(08:12):
You guys are learning a lot ofterms today.
That just basically means thatthey have an inner ear
infection.
A middle ear infection or aninner ear infection or some sort
of inflammation of those areas.
And that can happen from havingan ear infection that's from the
outside that spreads inwards andcan cause a lot of inflammation
even spreading inwards.
It can happen from having aneardrum rupture and then that
(08:34):
infection getting deep inside orinflammation just being deep
inside there.
And if that's the case, thisneeds to be treated with
medication that's very specificfor these types of ear
infections.
This is not something that youcan just use any over the
counter ear medication for.
Because unfortunately, if youput those ear medications in and
that eardrum is ruptured, itcould cause permanent damage.
(08:57):
So we don't want to do that.
So if for some reason you arealready giving medications in
the ear and we worry about aruptured eardrum, definitely
tell the doctor what medicationyou've been using so that they
know, but also stop using any ofthose medications.
If you start seeing those signs,a lot of people are like, oh,
they have an ear infection.
So they start using drops fromover the counter, but we don't
want to do that.
(09:17):
Because like I said, that couldactually make things worse.
If this is a ruptured eardrumand we have to use a medication
for that, a lot of times we'regoing to be doing one that's by
mouth, called orally by mouth,and they take it over a long
period of time.
It's six to eight weeks ofmedication.
There are certain medicationsthat you can use if there is a
ruptured eardrum, but it's avery, very short list, so
(09:40):
usually the veterinarians needto prescribe that if that's the
case.
It also really depends on whatkind of ear infection that is
too.
There are different types of earinfections because there are
different types of infections.
So we need to know exactly whichone it is, again, to know how to
clear that up.
But like I said, it's a prettylong 6 to 8 weeks of medication
when we do that.
But after that ear infection iscleared up, most of them go back
(10:02):
to normal after that.
If it's not treated, then theywill stay the same or get worse.
So now let's talk about whenthat nystagmus or eye flickering
goes up and down.
Now I'm more worried aboutsomething bigger.
Something in the brain.
So did you notice like whatthese signs sound like in
people?
So if I describe some of thesethings like walking as if
(10:24):
they're drunk, falling over tothe side, maybe slurring our
words, dogs can't really slurtheir barks.
But we can slur our words.
So one big differential forthese guys is what we call an
ischemic stroke, meaning thatthere was a blood clot or
something that occurred thatstopped oxygen from getting into
the brain correctly.
(10:44):
Sounds very much like a strokein people, right?
So most of these patients, theywill usually improve within
hours to weeks, even without anytreatment at all.
Just like our patients with ourold dog vestibular disease or
idiopathic vestibular disease,whatever you'd like to call it.
Most of those will get betterwithout doing any treatment.
(11:06):
They don't need antibiotics oranything.
Usually we're giving themmedications.
We'll talk about that a littlebit later.
Now, the last big cause of thisis going to be something we call
neoplasia.
Basically, some cancer is alsocommon.
This can be a cancer thatstarted in the head or it can be
the vestibular cochlear nerves,the nerve we talked about in the
face, facial nerve.
(11:27):
You could have a mass that's inthe nerve that could be causing
this.
This can also be cancer thatstarted somewhere else and then
has metastasized or basicallymoved into the brain.
With this type, the symptomswill stay the same or just get
slowly worse.
If it's a slow growing tumor, orif it's a more faster growing
(11:49):
tumor, then it justprogressively gets worse without
any treatment or without anymedications for them.
Now there are a number of otherless common causes that can
cause these things such asthings like hypothyroidism,
meaning they have low thyroid,certain toxins can do this,
certain medications like highdoses of metronidazole, which is
(12:09):
a common medication thatveterinaries put pets on for
having diarrhea, or somethingcalled meningioencephalitis,
which I have covered in themeningitis episode before.
So like those kind of things cancause this vestibular syndrome
as well.
So what kind of diagnostics dowe do then to try to figure out
what the cause is?
(12:31):
The first test is basicallylooking into the dog's ears with
a scope we call an otoscope.
Oto just means the ears, by theway.
But we're looking to see if thetympanic membrane, remember that
eardrum, is ruptured.
That is our first clue as towhether there's an inner ear
infection.
Even if everything looks clean,and the eardrum looks closed,
(12:51):
there could still be an innerear infection that we just may
not be able to see.
It's a rare thing, but you canget infections just through the
bloodstream that can go to theinner ear.
A ruptured eardrum, now that islike a really good indication
this is probably an ear problemthat's causing this.
Now most clinicians from therewill probably talk about, if all
(13:12):
that looks normal, they're gonnastart talking about doing like
blood work or checking theirblood pressure.
The bloodwork is not going toshow if Lucy had a stroke or
brain tumor, unfortunatelybloodwork doesn't do that.
But it does show if there's somesort of other underlying cause
as to why that patient mighthave had a stroke.
So about 50 percent of strokesin dogs are caused by some sort
(13:35):
of underlying cause, such asthings like high blood pressure,
kidney disease, low thyroid,that hypothyroidism, cushing's
disease, which Dr.
Z covered, so you shoulddefinitely listen to that one
again.
Or a problem with proteins intheir body, and it could be a
problem with like blood clottingalong with a lot of other things
as well.
So blood work and blood pressureare important to rule those
(13:57):
things out to see if those couldhave been the cause of a stroke,
so we can get those figured outbefore the pet has another
stroke.
Next, if all of those thingscome back normal, we have to
start talking about advancedimaging at that point.
A CT is great for looking atthings like the middle ear.
You can see signs ofinflammation or a mass that's in
there.
But unfortunately, it's not thebest for looking at things like
(14:20):
brain tumors or signs of astroke.
An MRI is actually going to bethe best tool for that.
And that is usually done at somesort of specialty hospital, so
if you're not at a specialtyhospital already, usually it
means either transferring themto a specialty hospital, or they
go home, and then you make anappointment to go see a
neurologist, who then does theMRI, or whoever runs the MRI,
(14:41):
there are many differentspecialties that do that, but
pretty typically, it's going tobe the neurologist that do that.
So MRIs, I do usually tellpeople like they can be really
expensive.
If you're going to do an MRI orif you're considering doing an
MRI, I always suggest likecalling the hospital first and
asking to see like how much theMRI would be.
Or if it's a transfer, askingthe doctor who's transferring if
(15:03):
they could ask how much the MRIis going to be.
Just so you have some sort ofunderstanding as to how much
it's going to be and how muchyou're going to have to pay
upfront and whether that's adoable thing.
I usually tell people though,if, if you would go through
brain surgery for your dog, thena hundred percent, absolutely go
do that MRI because you couldpotentially, save their life by
(15:25):
doing this brain surgery.
If they found some sort of tumorthat was in there, if they found
a stroke, there's nothing you'regoing to be able to do about
that, but at least you'd have ananswer and know that you don't
have to go to surgery.
If you couldn't do brain surgeryor didn't want to do brain
surgery, then that's yourchoice.
You don't have to do that.
And otherwise, if you did theMRI, really, you'd just be
(15:46):
finding out an answer, but notdoing anything about it.
And unfortunately, there aresome that are inoperable tumors.
There's no way they're going tobe able to operate, even if they
did do surgery.
But if you would do surgery,then I would say just prepare
for that, that you would go todo that MRI.
And ideally, that would begreat, right?
If everybody could do the MRI,that'd be fantastic, but some
(16:07):
people can't afford that.
And you don't have to feel badabout that.
There are other places, too,that you can also look into.
A lot of times there's besidesthe specialty hospitals, you can
always look into going to thevet schools.
There are a lot of vet schoolsthat have MRIs and are able to
do that, and they can do it formuch less because it's students
who are learning those things.
(16:28):
So that's another option aswell.
You can always ask about thenearby vet schools and see if
they will do them.
So in Lucy's case, I did look ather ears, which were very clean.
They were immaculate.
We looked at her blood work, herblood pressure, and those were
amazing as well, especially forher age.
I talked to Lucy's mom who likeclearly loves Lucy a lot, but
(16:50):
she only discussed the optionsof doing a CT or an MRI versus
just giving her supportive careat home for two weeks to see if
she would improve.
Remember that for an old dog,vestibular or strokes, they will
either get better or they'rejust going to stay the same.
So it could be possible that shedoes get better from this.
If she has a brain tumor, she'slikely going to get worse.
(17:11):
So over that two week timeperiod, we would know.
We did talk about how I wasconcerned about her having a
brain tumor, especially with theway that she was alligator
rolling, that really concernedme for that.
Her mom was not able to affordan MRI, but she was willing to
give her that supportive carefor the next two weeks to see if
she did improve.
And so by supportive care, whatdo I mean?
(17:32):
I mean that usually is givingher medication just to help her
with her nausea.
We're not going to make thevestibular syndrome go away.
There's no medication for that.
It's really just, her brain hasto fix itself at that point.
But also just helping her getaround at home.
So when mom is gone, it meanskeeping her food and water
pretty close by and puttingpotty pads down so that she's in
(17:53):
a nice comfortable area and shedoesn't have to go very far and
hurt herself when she's movingaround.
But when mom is home, reallythat means that we need to get
her to move around more.
Think about people who havestrokes.
We want their brain to figureout how to function again, how
to move again, how to talkagain, how to respond to where
their limbs are again.
So it's very similar for ourdogs.
(18:15):
We want her to be able to gethelp in trying to learn how to
walk in a straight line again,and then starting to move around
objects again, like chairs andfurniture.
It's basically like doingphysical therapy at home and a
lot of these older dogs aregoing to become more stiff and
they're going to lose musclemass if we don't help them move
around and keep up theirstrength, which means that they
(18:37):
have so much more to overcome ifwe have to, get over the
vestibular syndrome and thenstart getting our muscle back
again.
So we got to make sure that whenthese guys go home that, they
are being worked with at home totry to do some of those physical
therapy things to help keep themup.
We're actually going to betalking to Ken in a couple of
weeks, who specializes inphysical therapy.
So I bet he's going to have somereally great ideas for us as
(18:59):
well, on what we can do at homefor these guys.
Once their brain and thevestibular system kind of
normalizes, then most dogs willgo back to normal within about
two weeks.
Some have a slight head tilt,but the majority of people don't
really notice that.
Really, it's just like theirparents that notice they have a
tiny head tilt.
Or when they come into theoffice to see me, I'm like, do
you notice that your dog has asmall head tilt?
(19:21):
And they're like, oh yeah, theyhad this problem, a couple of
years ago.
So most people don't notice itthough.
Now, for those pets who are backto normal in about two to three
week time span, the most commonquestion I get after they've
left the office because it's sooverwhelming when this first all
happens, but they will usuallyemail me then and ask, will this
(19:43):
happen again?
Unfortunately, it is definitelypossible for this to happen
again, just like how people canhave multiple strokes, with old
dog vestibular disease oridiopathic disease, we call it,
it can happen again in a matterof months or more.
And they more or less have kindof the same recovery time each
time.
With strokes, this can happenagain in days to weeks even, or
(20:06):
more.
It could still be months afterthat, but it still can happen
pretty quickly right afterwards.
Again, just like with people.
So what about for those patientsthat don't improve in two weeks,
or they just get worse?
So those are the ones that weworry more so that this is some
sort of brain tumor or a severestroke.
So I would say the majority ofthese patients are typically
humanely euthanized.
(20:27):
It's a really difficult decisionto make, but it's just not fair
for them to become worse and nothave a good quality of life.
A few will go to the neurologistafter that two weeks and perform
an MRI, and then decide fromthere.
And that's okay, too.
You can try treating them fortwo weeks, and if they don't
improve, see the neurologist.
I usually tell people if you'regoing to go that route, call to
(20:48):
get an appointment, as soon asthis happens.
So that way, you can get anappointment within two weeks or
so.
And if they've improved, thengreat.
You can cancel that appointmentat that time.
But if they haven't improved,then you have that already set
up.
Even though you've given themthat two week time period.
But it can be really hard to getin, and so you want to have that
all set up and ready to go.
(21:09):
Alright, so let's get back toLucy.
So what happened to little Lucy?
Like I said, I had thediscussion with her mom, she
could either be referred for anMRI, or she could take her home
for just supportive care, and wewouldn't have an answer, but,
we'd be able to see if she doesimprove.
And mom decided to take her homewith some instructions about
what to do and how to care forher.
(21:30):
A few days later, I actually gotan email from Lucy's mom stating
that Lucy did not seem to beimproving and she wanted more
information about like where shecould see a neurologist and get
a neurology consultation.
She still really wasn't sureabout an MRI and just really
didn't think she could affordit, but she at least wanted to
talk to a neurologist.
So I did give her thatinformation about where she
(21:51):
could like, find localneurologists and then she said
she was going to call them andfigure out from there what she
was going to do.
But about a week later, Iactually got an another email
from Lucy's mom and I assumed itwas going to be about the
neurology appointment or thatshe was doing worse but she
actually informed me that Lucywas doing fantastic, that she
was doing great.
She was up and walking.
(22:12):
She had a minor head tilt butmostly she felt like she had
most of her personality back atthat point.
She didn't go to see theneurologist after all because
she had greatly improved.
And so she just canceled herappointment.
I was really happy to hear thatnews for little Lucy, because
she was such a nice dog, withsuch a nice mom.
But I thought, for sure, she wasgoing to get worse and she was
(22:33):
going to be a brain tumor.
So, I was really happy when Iwas wrong.
If Lucy's mom happens to belistening to this, you can give
her pet for me.
Alright, we're going to talkabout our fun animal fact for
today.
So imagine this.
You decided to take a vacationfrom the snow, right?
Snow and ice all around us.
So you decided to go to southernFlorida.
(22:55):
You're hanging out all day atthe beach, because it's highs of
70s today, so in Florida they'relike, ah, that's so cold.
But for everybody who's in thesnow, they're like, oh my gosh,
this is amazing.
But it starts to rain there andthen there's a chance of
thunderstorms later.
So, you know time to hit thehighway in your fancy
convertible that you rentedbecause you're feeling pretty
relaxed.
Suddenly you notice all thesecars in front of you just
(23:17):
swerving and slowing down andthen there's suddenly things
moving across the highway.
So as you get closer and closer,you realize it's not just
something It's...
it's actually some thingsinstead.
These things look like they'rekind of like swimming across the
highway.
So if you get even closer, youslow down, and that there's
(23:38):
actually like a group of fishwalking.
Yes, I said walking.
There's a group of fish walkingacross the highway.
If you've ever seen this inFlorida, or if you are in
Florida or have seen it, youplease tell me if you've seen
this.
Just comment and let me know.
But I'm talking about walkingcatfish.
So when you think of a fish, I'msure you imagine fish in water,
(24:00):
swimming around, blowing littlebubbles out.
No, no, my first thought is notabout a fish walking across the
highway.
But these walking fish areactually native to Southeast
Asia and they're a reallyimportant food source there.
So they're great for sellingbecause they can survive out of
water for quite a while.
And therefore, when the buyersbuy them like they're really
(24:23):
fresh still.
So they can pretty much justtake them home and eat them very
fresh, but they've become areally invasive species in
places like eastern India,Pakistan, the Philippines.
And of course, we have lots ofweird animals that invaded
Florida.
So real quick.
I do want to point out that.
An invasive species, it actuallymeans that they do do harm to
(24:46):
the environment and do notoriginally belong there.
So it's not just like they're anon native species and they
don't really do harm.
So they are an invasive species,meaning that they do harm to the
environment.
They're actually illegal to havein many countries, including the
U.S., the reason why is becausethey can invade areas very, very
quickly.
For instance in Florida, theywere well documented to have
(25:09):
been there by the 1960s near thepretty much just the Palm Beach
area.
The species spread over 20counties in 10 years though.
One researcher had stated thatthere had been as many as 3,000
pounds per acre of these fish,which is just astonishing.
They usually thrive in lakes andrivers.
But lots of fish do there,right?
(25:30):
So they're really actually knownfor surviving in really, really
murky waters where there's not alot of oxygen and things like
ponds and canals, ditches andswamps, and even flooded
prairies.
They have really tiny eyes, sothey really don't need to see
their food.
Plus they really don't care muchabout what they're eating.
They're really not picky at all.
(25:52):
They'll eat kind of anything,any eggs, bugs, anything that
they can pretty much fit intheir mouth.
Other fish.
And so the really cool thingabout them though, is their
ability to walk on land, right?
Like how many fish can walk onland?
So how do they do this?
They have little spikes, so likespines is what they call them
towards the back and bottom oftheir body so that they can move
(26:15):
them back and forth, like almostas if their feet.
So the kind of like moving backand forth so that they are
walking across the freeway.
They can use their frontflippers as well to kind of like
move as well, right?
But the back, the back you wouldthink it's more like a snake,
but it's like a slitheringthing.
They actually use those littlespikes to be able to walk.
Alright, so they figured out howto walk now.
(26:36):
What about the fact that theyare still out of water, right?
Fish cannot breathe out ofwater, because fish need to use
their gills, move water throughtheir gills in order to be able
to breathe, which I probablyshould do like an episode on
because I think it's a super,super cool thing on how fish
actually breathe.
Anyways, these catfish havetheir own unique breathing
(26:56):
apparatus.
It's called a suprabranchialarborescent organ.
So luckily, if you know a littlebit of Latin, you can kind of
like figure it a little bit outand break it down.
But supra means above.
Branchial means gills.
And then arborescent, I'mwondering if my wife knows what
this one is, because she listensto a very specific podcast about
(27:18):
this.
Arborescent means tree, becausethe little organ has like these
branching appearances that kindof make it look like a small
tree.
So the little suprabranchialarborescent organ is basically
like a lung that allows thecatfish to breathe atmospheric
air, meaning air that's in ouratmosphere, not in the water.
(27:39):
So these two unique features, itallows these catfish to move
from one murky pond to a ditchor somewhere else really easily.
So they can live a few hours outof water if needed.
But there are some rareinstances of them surviving out
of water for even up to 18hours.
So they can like move from oneplace to another because if all
(28:00):
of their food supply is gone orthe water is, let's say the
water is all, dried up fromheat.
They can move to other areas ifthey need to.
So they don't sound too bad,right?
I mean like, they're not verycute by any means.
But, they do like to live inareas where a lot of oxygen
isn't available.
They like to eat all these weirdbugs.
(28:21):
They live in places that otherfish don't really want to, you
know, live in.
So what makes them so invasive?
For one thing, because they cancross the road, there have been
reports of hordes of catfishwalking across these roads and
being run over.
And they're very slimy, whichthen makes the roads extremely
slick and have had numerousaccidents caused because of
(28:43):
this.
Another thing is that they caneasily invade the commercial
aquaculture facilities.
So that's where like the fishare grown rather than being
harvested from the wild.
And then they just eat hugenumbers of stock fish in there
and just eat tons of them.
So then they can't breed all ofthese fish.
And then now you have tons andtons and tons of these catfish
(29:05):
in there and not the fish thatyou're trying to breed.
Alright, that is our cool animalfact for the day.
Otherwise, I hope you havelearned some more stuff about
our weird vestibular diseasethat makes our furry little
friends a little crooked.
I'm sure they're not jealous ofroller coasters after all of
that.
So as always if you have anyquestions, you can always ask me
on our website atVetsplanationPodcast.com or I'm
(29:27):
most active on Facebook, so youcan definitely ask me there as
well.
If you have a topic that wehaven't covered or you want
covered, you'll definitely letme know that.
I'm, I'm up for covering prettymuch any topic or talking to any
specialists that need to betalked to.
Otherwise, we really want tokeep this podcast going.
We can only do that by growing.
If you enjoy this podcast,please share this with a fellow
animal lover.
(29:48):
We really would appreciate that.
The bigger we grow, the morelikely we'll be able to keep
going with our podcast.
Or you can also considerdonating on our website or at
the link that we'll have on theshow notes.
And as always, please rememberto keep your pets happy,
healthy, and safe.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you guys for listeningthis week.
If you have any questions,comments, suggestions, or you
(30:09):
just want to say hi, you canemail me at Suggs, S U G G S
VetsplanationPodcast.com orvisit the website at
VetsplanationPodcast.com or findus on Facebook, Instagram, or
TikTok at Vetsplanation.
Thank you all for listening andI'll see you back here next
week.
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