September 3, 2024 • 38 mins
Discover the hidden signs of pain in cats and learn how to recognize arthritis in your feline friend. In this episode, Dr. Sugerman and Dr. Černá dive into the subtle behaviors that could indicate your cat is suffering. From identifying changes in routine to understanding treatment options like Solensia, this is a must-listen for every cat owner who wants to keep their pet healthy and pain-free.
In this episode you will learn:
- How to identify subtle signs of pain in cats
- The differences in pain expression between cats, dogs, and humans
- Key symptoms of arthritis and degenerative joint disease in cats
- Effective pain management strategies for feline arthritis
- The benefits and side effects of using Solensia for cats
- Environmental modifications to improve comfort for arthritic cats
- The importance of early detection and treatment of feline pain
- The role of breed and weight in a cat's risk of developing arthritis
Resources:
Crazy Cat Vet Website
Dr. Petra Černá's Instagram
Connect with me here:
- https://www.vetsplanationpodcast.com/
- https://www.facebook.com/vetsplanation/
- https://www.twitter.com/vetsplanations/
- https://www.instagram.com/vetsplanation/
- https://www.tiktok.com/@vetsplanation/
- https://youtube.com/@Vetsplanationpodcast
- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVbvK_wcgytuVECLYsfmc2qV3rCQ9enJK
Voluntary donations and Vetsplanation subscription:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Sugerman (00:01):
Hi, everybody.
Welcome back to another episodeof Vetsplanation.
I am your host, Dr.
Sugerman, and we have with usagain our Crazy Cat Vet.
Thank you again, Dr.
Černá, for joining us today.
Dr. Cerna (00:11):
Thank you so much for having me here today again.
I'm very excited to be here.
Dr. Sugerman (00:15):
Absolutely.
So we're going to be talkingtoday about pain in cats, and
then somewhat of a relatedtopic, we're going to talk about
arthritis in cats.
So we'll start out with justwith pain because I feel like
with people, we're verydramatic, right?
Compared to an animal, we'revery dramatic about our pain.
Even dogs I feel like are alittle bit dramatic sometimes,
(00:36):
especially like huskies.
I love them, but they'll,anytime they stub their toe,
they're screaming.
Cats are just not the same.
It is really hard to tell if acat's in pain, even for us as a
veterinarian.
So can you describe to me, like,how can we tell if our cat is in
pain?
Dr. Cerna (00:52):
Yeah absolutely.
I think that's, you know, a hugedifference between, like you
said, humans.
So my grandma always used to saythat the deadly disease of men
is cold.
So every time like grandpa wouldhave a cold, it would be really
bad.
And then dogs, I feel like wecan really tell, but cats, what
I always, when I look at cats, Ialways consider them in nature.
(01:14):
They would be both predators,but also preys.
So they are of course, amazinghunters and, but they also are
preys.
And therefore they really try tohide often when they are in pain
or when they're vulnerable,because of course that would
just put the other predatorspotentially at more tempted to
(01:34):
want to hunt them.
Dr. Sugerman (01:36):
Yeah.
They're very unique in that way.
Dr. Cerna (01:37):
Absolutely.
Cats just they are very, verybrave creatures.
They have nine lives.
I strongly believe in that.
Dr. Sugerman (01:44):
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (01:45):
The things I have seen cats pull through, I don't
think anybody else could, butthey're definitely trying to
hide pain, which is a bigproblem for us as doctors, of
course, veterinarians because weare struggling and clients as
well, the caregivers of cats,they really struggle to
recognizing that their cat is inpain and they need to bring them
(02:05):
in.
Dr. Sugerman (02:06):
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (02:08):
Yeah.
So the main signs I think tolook for really is I, for
example, think it can be assubtle as literally just a
tiniest change in a behavioralof the cat.
So for example, my, the love ofmy life, Belina, she sleeps with
me literally on my neck, behindmy head every single night.
And then one night she justwasn't there.
(02:30):
And I was like, Oh, that's soweird.
I wonder, what's going on withBelina.
And then I went downstairs inthe morning to make my coffee as
always.
And.
She just wasn't looking right.
And I looked at her and then shehad a horrible cat bite abscess
actually, because she was in afight with one of my cats the
day before, which was horribleand that cat no longer lives
with us, but yeah he has a greatnew home with one of my friends
(02:55):
because they just were notgetting on well.
But yeah, so it could be assubtle as a tiniest change in
their behavior all, all the wayto then, of course, eating a
little bit less potentially theycan be seeking less attention
usually.
Usually they wouldn't be likelooking for attention more.
Sometimes that can happen too,but most of the times it could
(03:17):
be hiding, trying to sleep alittle more, potentially eating
less as well, and just not doingtheir routine stuff.
Dr. Sugerman (03:27):
So isolating themselves more than they
normally would, right?
I feel like that's probably oneof the top things that people
bring their cat in for whenthere's just, there's no other
signs, there's not vomiting oranything.
They'll bring them in and justsay, they're just not acting
right.
They just, they didn't sleepwith me tonight, or they're
hiding in a weird place thatthey've never been before.
Dr. Cerna (03:46):
Yeah.
Cats love their routine stuff.
So I know, when I come home, Iknow various, I have six cats
and I know where is the favoritespot of each of my cats to
sleep, to rest, when they eat,when they don't eat.
So it's just, cats they lovetheir routine stuff.
That's why I love them so muchbecause, they don't like
changes.
So when something they are,changing their routine, there's
(04:07):
definitely something going onwith them.
Dr. Sugerman (04:09):
And do cats cry out in pain?
Dr. Cerna (04:12):
It's a great question.
They definitely potentiallycould be meowing and be more
vocal if they're in pain, butthey definitely are not usually
yelping like dogs would be.
Every time you, and you work inan ER, so you probably see a lot
of those dogs with pancreatitisand a lot of other issues or
broken bones and they come inand they will be yelping and
(04:33):
really showing how painful theyare.
And, cats just don't really dothat.
They can maybe be like trying tomeow and show us that they might
be something going on, but mostof the time they don't.
Cats can actually interestinglypurr when they're in pain.
So purring is one of my favoritesounds in cats, but cats can
unfortunately purr also whenthey're in pain.
(04:55):
And that's always very sad purr.
Dr. Sugerman (04:58):
Yeah, I did a whole podcast on like why cats
purr and one of the things wastalking about how they're
purring to like self soothethemselves or even potentially
to try to heal themselves withpurring just because of like the
the sound wave that it, that itcomes in as, which is really
cool.
But a lot of people wouldmistake that.
Dr. Cerna (05:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Sugerman (05:17):
And they must be happy, not in pain.
Dr. Cerna (05:20):
Yes.
And they put a very often alsobecause I breed cats, so when
they give birth, when they havethose contractions, they really
are trying to like breathethrough them.
And I think that's reallyhelpful.
Like you mentioned, those likewaves and stuff, I think with
potentially really helps themwith that pain in during labor.
Dr. Sugerman (05:36):
Yeah, yeah, so amazing what they do,
Dr. Cerna (05:39):
Yes, they are the best creatures.
Dr. Sugerman (05:41):
Right?
And you were talking about arethey vocal when they're in pain?
I will say like one of the topthings that I see them
vocalizing or just screaming foris when they have the aortic
thromboembolism or saddlethrombus where they like have a
blood clot that goes to the backlegs.
And for blocked cats who haveurinary obstructions, those are
the two things that I think I'veever heard a cat screaming for.
(06:04):
Even broken bones, they aregoing to try to walk on it.
Dr. Cerna (06:07):
Yes, I was just about to say that actually, the
thrombo, the aorticthromboembolisms.
Those are one of the saddestcases I've had because I think
those cats are really just somuch in pain.
And I think for us vets, it'sreally important to recognize
that and really provide themimmediately with some pain
relief as well.
(06:27):
But I agree.
And I think obstructed cats dothat as well often, but I feel
not always, but the aorticthromboembolism cats, I feel
like they always, are crying outloud and that one is probably
very painful condition.
Dr. Sugerman (06:41):
Exactly.
When you're like, you can breaka leg and not be as painful to
scream, but like that, thoseaortic thromboembolisms, they're
definitely screaming.
Dr. Cerna (06:50):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Like you said, yeah, I see, likelame dogs, it's crying and they
Dr. Sugerman (06:55):
Right.
Dr. Cerna (06:55):
not walk and, cat with a broken pelvis, even,
after our, after car accident,they are still like walking
around and
Dr. Sugerman (07:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Cerna (07:05):
Yeah, I always tell people that cats know that they
are unfortunately so manycreatures, but also humans that
do not like them.
And they just, want to livedespite all those odds.
And they just have amazing willto live.
Dr. Sugerman (07:20):
Yep, exactly.
When we do recognize thatthey're in pain, is there any
way to comfort them for thatpain?
Dr. Cerna (07:26):
Yeah, I think this very much depends what type of
pain, of course, this is,because I think if it's an acute
pain, those ones, because of allthe physiological processes that
happen with those inflammatorycytokines, for example, and
everything, a lot of thesepatients really need to be
brought in and for us to be ableto help them with medications,
(07:48):
because a lot of the acute paincan be really quite challenging
to manage, I think at home.
But for example, then when we goand we'll talk a little bit more
about the osteoarthritis incats, like those chronic pains
there, we can actually makeenvironmental changes at home
and make modifications andadjustments that can help these
(08:09):
cats maybe even improve theirneeds for needing less pain
medications and everything.
So I think with the chronicpain.
We should really notunderestimate it, but I think we
could probably do somemodifications for them to be
able to cope better, especiallywith osteoarthritis that we will
talk about.
(08:29):
But I think with that reallyacute pain, when those cats are
not feeling well, I think it'sreally important to bring them
in.
Because I, for example, had,because cats can develop and you
probably see this a lot in theER.
They can develop the hepaticlipidosis.
So these fatty deposits in theliver, if they stop eating, and
especially those overweight orbig cats, when they stop eating,
(08:51):
they start using their fat forenergy.
And then therefore, of course,they will have these fatty
deposits in the liver, which isof course a huge and even life
threatening problem for thesecats.
Dr. Sugerman (09:03):
I usually tell people, whatever, people are
always asking my dog didn't eatfor 24 hours.
Is that okay?
And I'm like, yeah, dogs cannoteat for a week.
I'm fine with that.
If a cat stops eating for 24hours, then I'm very concerned.
Dr. Cerna (09:14):
Yeah, I am too.
And I actually, one of the worstcases I've ever had of hepatic
lipidosis was a cat that it wasthis two or three year old Maine
Coon cat that had a TPLO for hercruciate.
And the cat was a little lamebefore, compensating, doing
pretty well.
Then she had her, her, her kneesurgery.
(09:34):
And then the cat was in so muchpain and uncomfortable with
those plates.
The cat stopped eating.
Actually developed hepaticlipidosis, became constipated
and actually was brought to thevet.
And because it was a Maine Coonwith unfortunately some ACM, she
got fluid overloaded, so thenshe was in congestive heart
failure, we pulled her throughit, but that was a horrible
(09:56):
complication of a TPLO surgery.
Dr. Sugerman (09:59):
Right, seriously, yeah.
I ought to try to fix one, onepart that was painful.
Dr. Cerna (10:03):
Yes.
And then we cost this wholesequel of problems for her after
that.
Dr. Sugerman (10:08):
Poor thing.
Dr. Cerna (10:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So definitely, if you'reconcerned that your cat isn't
acting right, definitely, bringthem in because it's an
emergency most of the times.
Dr. Sugerman (10:19):
Great.
Was there anything else you wantto say about pain first before
we move on to arthritis?
Dr. Cerna (10:24):
Yeah.
I think I would just really trywhen you bring these cats to the
vet, because of course it'sfirst time we see the cat when
they come to us, and this fromyour experience, sometimes for
us, it can be really hardbecause cats can be very stoic
to really tell.
So I think it's really even thesmallest thing potentially can
help us, try to.
See what might be going on withthe pet because I wish I could
(10:45):
ask the cats.
I wish I spoke cat language andmeow.
And if there was any way I couldlearn that I absolutely would.
But for
Dr. Sugerman (10:53):
I feel like if anybody could, it would be you.
Dr. Cerna (10:55):
I love that.
Yes.
I wish, yeah.
If I could have one superpower,it would be to speak meow.
But yeah, no, I think that wouldbe like really, really important
for us to really know just thesmallest changes because, we'll
do, we'll touch their belly and,dogs with pancreatitis will be
super painful.
In cats, it's so hard to tell aswell.
So really important, justalways, telling us what you
(11:18):
think might be going on orwhat's happening with your cat,
because I think the owners orthe caregivers always know their
cats the best.
Dr. Sugerman (11:27):
Exactly.
And I think also on that point,just making sure whoever does
know the cat the best is theperson that brings them to the
vet.
Because sometimes, you'll have achild or somebody who just
doesn't do a lot of stuff withthe cat.
They come in and what's goingon?
I don't know.
It's just not acting right.
That's so much harder for us.
When they don't give us thesigns that we need to when we're
(11:47):
doing our physical exam to tryto figure out what's going on.
Dr. Cerna (11:50):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So please always, and if if mostof the times it's always, and
again, I am a big feminist and Idon't want to be insulting to
anyone but always if it'susually like the husband who
brings in the cat.
We call the wife and he's alwayslike i'm just the driver or the
personal taxi driver for the catyou need to talk to my wife.
So that always makes me laugh.
(12:11):
Oh,
Dr. Sugerman (12:11):
Yeah.
Perfect.
Anything else about pain incats?
Dr. Cerna (12:17):
I think we've covered quite a lot of it actually and I
think we should maybe talk aboutthe osteoarthritis and actually
recognizing also the chronicpain and maybe the management of
pain as well in cats.
Dr. Sugerman (12:30):
Perfect.
So tell me what isosteoarthritis first?
Dr. Cerna (12:33):
Yeah, so cats, so we call it now more degenerative
joint disease because cats canactually have arthritis also in
their spine.
And so there is also this use ofthe words.
So we probably are a little bitmore inclined of using the term
degenerative joint disease now,so we can cover the spine as
well in these patients.
(12:54):
And unfortunately, sometimes ascats get older and we see that
in humans as well our joints, ofcourse, are losing the kind of
the flexibility therepotentially could be a little
bit more friction.
Sometimes the bones as theytouch each other for many years,
they can become a little bitmore fragile as well.
(13:14):
So this, all of these can, andthere could be some inflammation
in the joints, of course, aswell.
So all of this can trigger painin cats and then they can have
decreased mobility.
So very often what we see inthese cats are changes, for
example, in jumping up or down.
Sometimes these cats are slowingdown.
(13:34):
They don't want to sleep anymorein their favorite places.
So like my cats absolutely lovesleeping on their windows and if
they do not have an access andthey would have to jump really
high to go and sleep on thosewindows, that could definitely
be an issue.
Sometimes if you pet them on theback, they can be a little bit
uncomfortable if you touch themin some area.
So definitely noticing that aswell.
(13:57):
And they usually still eat andotherwise feel okay, but they
could be some changes in theirappetite as well.
But most of it is really, again,those subtle changes of, maybe
they don't, I've had a clientwho told me, you know what, my
cat always used to sleep in bedwith me and now I have bedroom
upstairs and the cat doesn'twant to go up the stairs and
(14:18):
jump into the bed as she used tobecause she's sore.
So these are all these littlethings.
And then the client was very sadbecause he lost his wife and he
only had that cat.
So he was like very upset that,his favorite person almost, our
favorite favorite creature inthe world doesn't want to be
with him at night.
And then, so we startedmedications for the
(14:40):
osteoarthritis and then he wasjust so excited that his cat
comes back to bed again.
Dr. Sugerman (14:46):
Good.
Good.
Nice.
Yeah, and with arthritis, itseems like it's a slow
progression for people who arereally paying attention to all
those little tiny details.
I feel like sometimes it becomesa very a big thing, like not
wanting to jump in the bed whenit's progressed pretty, pretty
far, right?
Dr. Cerna (15:05):
So it really will start.
And I watch because I have a 10year old cat at home now.
So I watch her a lot becausesometimes I feel like she is a
little bit uncomfortable when Ipalpate her spine.
So we are carefully watchingthat, assessing that as well.
She's a huge pain with takingmedication.
So I haven't we tried, we didlike a Gabapentin trial, but she
(15:29):
also has mild allergies, andI've been trying to give her
some antihistamines now, andsometimes I just feel like the
stress because she's abrachycephalic cat, so she has
this smushed face, so every timeI try to medicate her, she goes
into this little bit ofrespiratory distress, she really
is getting upset, and then,spitting the food all over.
(15:49):
And then she doesn't talk to mefor a half of the day, but there
are always definitely ways wehave to find some balance,
right?
Because sometimes giving catsall these medications, maybe
it's not improving their qualityof life.
Dr. Sugerman (16:02):
Exactly.
Dr. Cerna (16:03):
Always really need to find that balance there.
But yeah, I think just reallywatching your cats and making
sure that they are not any hugechanges in their lifestyle is
important.
Dr. Sugerman (16:16):
Yeah, exactly.
I, randomly I had a cat lastweek that the guy said that the
cat just takes pills and pillpockets because he asked me
specifically for pills and notliquids and I was like, what?
Your cat is not a cat.
I don't, I don't understand.
Yeah.
That is amazing.
Dr. Cerna (16:32):
No, and I try now like when I breed kittens and
stuff, I actually teach them totake like empty capsules in
churros and stuff.
So we definitely are working onthat quite a lot because I think
it's really important that catsare really exposed to these
treats and, be motivated whenthey are young.
So when they develop these, allthese diseases, when they are
senior cats, so we have optionsto give them medication.
Dr. Sugerman (16:55):
Yeah.
That's a great idea to do that.
Yeah.
So are there some cats that aremore predisposed to having
arthritis than others?
Dr. Cerna (17:03):
We always see it a lot, of course, in domestic
short hairs.
Absolutely.
It's also one of the most commonbreed of cat, of course, but
these large breeds of cats, likeNorwegian forest cat, Maine
Coons, British short hairs,these cats can even have hip
dysplasia, actually, which wedon't talk about very often in
cats compared to dogs.
But I actually was part of myPhD back in Czech Republic.
(17:27):
I actually looked at prevalenceof hip dysplasia in pedigree
cats there.
And it was surprisingly reallyhigh without the clients not
noticing any clinical signs athome.
So it really sometimes can be,these signs can just be very
subtle.
And this only shows us how oftenwe miss these signs at home.
And so potentially these likelarger breeds.
(17:48):
And unfortunately probably theworst breed for this.
And I think there are definitelyethical concern about even
breeding.
This breed are Scottish foldsbecause in Scottish folds, the
cartilage defect that makes themhave their ears so cutely
folded.
Is actually a defect in theircartilage and it affects their
(18:09):
joints as well.
So I have sadly seen a four orfive month old kittens that are
too painful to jump on a sofaand it's heartbreaking.
Dr. Sugerman (18:18):
Yeah.
Ugh.
So sad.
Dr. Cerna (18:20):
Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman (18:21):
Yeah.
What about if your cat is justoverweight, does that predispose
them to having arthritis aswell?
Dr. Cerna (18:26):
Absolutely.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So we always, of course, when Iactually just made this big post
on my Instagram about felineobesity last week, because of
course, unfortunately this isone of the bigger problems and
being overweight predisposes youto a lot of different issues and
osteoarthritis is one of them.
Dr. Sugerman (18:47):
Exactly.
What are some of the best thingsthat we can do to help these
cats who do have arthritis athome?
Dr. Cerna (18:54):
Yeah.
Environmental modification isvery, very important.
So I had actually a lot of myclients that build these like
huge ramps so the cats can likestill go on the windows and I've
had one cat that had quitesevere osteoarthritis and so
they are then wanted to hang outin only one room.
So the caregivers brought all ofher main resources, right?
Like litter box, food, water,toys, bed, and had these like
(19:18):
special really, really fluffedcushions for her to sleep in
those and everything.
So environmental modificationsand management for these cats
makes a huge difference.
Like I have like little, becauseI have these automatic litter
boxes.
So now for my, 10 year old, Iactually, they sell this little
like ramp to it, like
Dr. Sugerman (19:37):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (19:38):
Up into it.
So I have those, so it's morecomfortable for her to use it.
So environmental modification isvery, very important, but very
often we reach for differentpain medications as well.
Dr. Sugerman (19:52):
What about like warming things?
I saw like a warming blanket theother day at the pet store and
like little warmer beds andstuff for them, what do you
think about that?
Dr. Cerna (20:02):
I think they are wonderful, especially in these
older cats, because they arealso losing muscle mass, so they
really are struggling to keep uptheir body temperature as well.
So I absolutely love those.
I actually have a heat pad in mybed for myself because I have
low blood pressure and I'malways cold and my cats
absolutely love it.
So they all are using it too.
(20:22):
So cats love being warm, right?
Like cats really do not enjoylike roaming around and some
cats will love to play in snowfor a little bit in winter, but
they are not like, I want to beby my fireplace.
And if you see that, like thosepictures of those happy cats
that have like their heat pad infront of the fireplace and it's
super nice soft bed.
(20:43):
I just think with the heat pads,it's really important to make
sure they are safe and weshould, the cat always should
have a choice if they want touse it or not.
So we should never just put aheat pad in the bed.
So always like making sure maybehalf of it is heated and the
other one, no.
Dr. Sugerman (21:00):
Yeah, or one one heated and one not heated type
thing, right?
Dr. Cerna (21:04):
Yeah, we should always give, give them an
option.
Dr. Sugerman (21:07):
We talked we talked before about like we like
them to be able to have levelsto be able to jump up and down
on so do you still do that foryour cats who have arthritis or
do you just make those levelslower?
Dr. Cerna (21:17):
Exactly.
So I still do it for, for thecats with osteoarthritis, but I
try to provide options, so forexample, if I put those shelves
on the wall and even if theywant to go higher, I just want
to make sure that I put thoseshelves maybe from lower and
very close to each other.
So the cat doesn't have to jumptoo much to get to those.
So really providing those kindof, in between steps for them to
(21:40):
be able to still go higherbecause I think cats are really
sad when they cannot go high upand all those ramps, like I
mentioned before, I really haveseveral clients who build them
like these ramps that go fromthe ground to the window.
And then there is a, there is abig pillow or like a big bed for
them on the windows as well.
Dr. Sugerman (21:58):
Nice.
So I know that not everybody'sgoing to be able to recognize at
first that, osteoarthritis intheir cats.
So how can we diagnose it whenthey bring them to the vet
clinic?
Dr. Cerna (22:09):
Yes, that's super great question.
And most of the times, wediagnose them based on our
physical exam and likepalpation.
So when we feel those joints,but radiographs of course, can
be very helpful for thesepatients as well, because we can
see some changes on those x rayspotentially as well in those
joints too.
Dr. Sugerman (22:29):
Yeah, so we're looking for like bony changes a
lot of times, right?
Dr. Cerna (22:33):
Yes, exactly.
And some inflammation around thejoint or soft tissue as well,
potentially.
I feel like the soft tissue wesee more affected with those
acute injuries, like broken, forexample, bones.
But yes, exactly.
Those those changes are alwaysgreat to look for on
radiographs.
Dr. Sugerman (22:50):
And so what can we do then in the veterinary field,
like what do we do to help withcats who have arthritis?
Dr. Cerna (22:55):
Yeah, there are actually so many pain
medications now for cats thesedays.
It can be hard to choose from.
And I have to say all of this isalways very individual.
I've had cats who, opioids likebuprenorphine are great for some
cats.
For some cats, they just do nottolerate them.
Cats can have fever, otherreactions.
They can have hyper salivation,nausea.
Dr. Sugerman (23:18):
Hyper salivation is just drooling by the way.
Dr. Cerna (23:20):
Exactly.
Sorry about that.
Yeah.
So they be
Dr. Sugerman (23:23):
Okay.
Dr. Cerna (23:23):
drooling.
My cat, actually Belina.
She one time got buprenorphinefor cystitis and she goes crazy
high on that medication.
So she just was walking aroundall night, meowing, wouldn't
rest.
So definitely some cats can nottolerate it as well.
Then, we have great medicationslike gabapentin that we use in
(23:43):
human medicine, too.
And for most cats, it's great.
Some cats can really have severesedation side effect from that.
Cats with chronic kidney diseasecan be more sensitive to it
because it gets processed by thekidneys.
So we have to be, we have to becareful in those.
Non steroidal anti inflammatorymedications can be great help
(24:04):
because in these joints usuallyis some inflammation as well.
And these non steroidal antiinflammatory medications, they
have to break down the processof inflammation and decrease it.
But again, in some cats,especially with advanced chronic
kidney disease orgastrointestinal upset, these
can not be always great.
And now we actually have a newdrug on the market.
(24:26):
That's once a month injection ofthese monoclonal antibodies.
And it seems to really target aspecific things in their joints
and really be helping with that.
And I think that really haschanged a, there's been a huge
life changer for a lot of mypatients with osteoarthritis.
Dr. Sugerman (24:46):
Real quick, going back to the non steroidal anti
inflammatories.
For everybody who doesn't know,that's NSAIDs.
It's typically like us takingibuprofen, but something that's
safe for cats, right?
As far as I know, I thinkthere's only two that we can
use, right?
Onsior and MetaCam
Dr. Cerna (25:02):
Yes.
Dr. Sugerman (25:03):
Can use it.
Dr. Cerna (25:04):
Yeah, this is really actually interesting.
So it's only this like black boxlabel in the United States.
So it was my number one NSAID touse in cats when I worked in UK.
And I used it all the time andlong term and then I prescribe
it here.
And our pharmacy would becalling me and Černá, did you go
crazy?
And I was like, I just don't seethe American cats being so
(25:27):
different to the British cats.
And so I've actually been usingit for a lot of other diseases
like cystitis in cats.
When I have inflammation.
I use sometimes dose reduce.
I'm very careful in cats thatare not eating, patients that
are not well hydrated, but in aotherwise healthy cat, even in
senior cat with mild CKD, we nowhave several studies showing
(25:49):
that it's very safe in cats witheven a stage one and stage two
chronic kidney disease.
Dr. Sugerman (25:55):
Wow.
Hopefully they'll change thatthen so we can use MetaCam and
be on label to use for cats.
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (26:01):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I think it would be, I thinkit would be great because Onsior
is only also on label for threedays.
So it's, I think we just need tobe careful when we use it, but
I've used it even in my own catschronically.
And Belina gets NSAID for afterher surgeries and she's a 10
year old cat.
And we still use plenty of ittoo.
Dr. Sugerman (26:23):
Nice.
Sorry.
Now we'll go back to ourinjection.
So the injection, you said oncea month injection, right?
It's called Solensia, I want tosay?
Dr. Cerna (26:29):
Yes, exactly.
Yes, it is called Solensia.
Dr. Sugerman (26:32):
Yeah, I can never remember.
So we have one for dogs, we haveone for cats, so I always have
to go look to see which one iswhich.
Dr. Cerna (26:36):
Yes, and this was an amazing because actually one of
the few drugs that the one forcats came before the one for the
dogs.
Dr. Sugerman (26:45):
Oh really?
Oh, I didn't know that.
Dr. Cerna (26:47):
Yes.
There are not that many drugs.
So I always love when there islike a drug that's labeled for
cats and we use it off label fordogs.
It just makes me so happy.
Dr. Sugerman (26:56):
Because that almost never happens.
We always have things that arefor dogs that we have to use off
label for cats.
Cerenia, yeah, really commonmedication to help with nausea,
and it says for dogs only, butwe use it for cats all the time.
But people get very concernedabout it because it says not for
cats.
Yeah.
Yeah, so Solensia injection, sowe give it once a month.
(27:17):
I've had, so I've had a coupleof I've one cat, my own cat that
I've used it for, and a coupleof my clients that have used it
as well for their cats.
I did notice that the firstinjection maybe didn't work as
well, but by the secondinjection you could definitely
see a pretty big improvement.
Have you seen that as well?
Dr. Cerna (27:34):
Yes, I see in some really huge improvement from day
kind of one, but it definitelyhas happened with several
patients where the second dosehas been more helpful than the
first one.
And then we usually try to keepthem on regular once a month
management as well.
There are, of course, some sideeffects.
They are, technically oftenquite rare.
(27:56):
So I've not seen thempersonally.
But some couple of my colleagueshave seen, I think the worst one
that we see would be someitchiness in these cats.
And I've actually had a coupleof my colleagues who are feline
specialist said that they usedlike a half a dose instead of a
full dose.
And then the next time and thathas helped and the cats were
still comfortable.
And I really think that, yeah.
(28:17):
And I've had few patients where,we were really considering
humane euthanasia for quality oflife from their osteoarthritic
pain.
And then we started them onSolensia started trotting up and
down the stairs again.
So it was beautiful to see and Ithink it's definitely worth
trying.
It's not cheap, however, if youactually think it's just once a
(28:38):
month, and then you think, ifyou have to pill your cat twice
a day, and how much thosemedications cost, it actually
comes up almost to the sameprice.
Dr. Sugerman (28:47):
Yeah, exactly.
And do they always, I don't knowif you know this or not, do you
always have to go into the vetto have the injection done or
have you seen people like sellthe bottle to, to the
Dr. Cerna (28:58):
Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great question.
And I think this one isdefinitely something that, as
veterinarians, we need to becareful about, right?
Because actually like humansgive themselves injections all
the time.
So I, I personally am okay withthe stress for cats coming in
once a month can definitely behigh.
So as long as my caregivers ormy clients are comfortable
(29:22):
injecting those cats once amonth, and I've had some where
they're like, I don't want to doit at home.
It, cost X and X and Zed.
And if I see.
spill it or something happens.
Like I don't want that tohappen.
So they bring the cat once amonth, but I've had had several
clients where, they treat,they've been caring for cats
with chronic kidney disease,they can give subcutaneous
(29:43):
fluids at home, they've beengiving insulin to their cats.
So they have no problem givingthese injections at home as
well.
And, actually I think it'sprobably for a lot of these
probably for a lot of these catsthat are stressful and stress
going to the vet, going once amonth can definitely be
challenging.
We sometimes do these as atechnician appointments.
(30:04):
So the technicians just give theinjections with the clients in
the room and then they go homewithin five minutes.
So we've done that as well.
Dr. Sugerman (30:12):
Yeah, I've definitely had some clients that
they, their cat gets reallystressed coming in to us and all
like that.
But now we're at the end of whentheir injection was working and
so they're also more painful andthen trying to get them into the
carrier.
It just becomes a big heart,heartache for both the owner or
the pet parent who's like tryingto just make them feel better
and the cat who's just reallystressed out from all of this
(30:33):
happening.
Dr. Cerna (30:34):
Exactly.
So I think, it's not thatdifficult to learn to give
injections at home.
I definitely have many clientswho are doing that.
So I think I feel comfortablewith that.
Dr. Sugerman (30:45):
Nice.
Great.
Okay.
And then so you had said thatthere are some side effects.
Itchiness was the worst.
What are some of the other sideeffects that you've seen?
Dr. Cerna (30:52):
Yeah, I think that's probably like the one where we
would see that these cats wouldreally need to stop the
medications.
It's been, there are, there weresafety studies in like chronic
kidney disease cats as well.
So otherwise the side effectsare, are pretty, pretty mild.
And I have not really seen many.
So main one really would be theskin reactions, like itching,
(31:14):
some inflammation, and I thinksome hair loss has been reported
as well.
Dr. Sugerman (31:19):
Is that just in the area where the injection was
given or is it itchiness and allover?
Dr. Cerna (31:24):
Actually all over, actually all over.
And I think there has been smallpercentage of cats that have
been reported to have somevomiting and diarrhea
afterwards.
These are always like hard tosay, is it actually, because
when they actually controlledthe, the Solensia to placebo,
some of those kids were vomitingtoo in the study.
And I don't, because sometimesjust like giving any injection
(31:47):
to a cat can make it stressedand throw up or get diarrhea.
So I don't think there was likea huge percentage.
I think it was like 13 percentof cats that had the Solensia
and 10 percent of cats that werein the placebo group.
So there wasn't like a really ahuge difference between those.
Dr. Sugerman (32:04):
Yeah, and I've also had people who, not with
Solensia specifically, but doingflea medication.
Somebody had told me that everysingle time they put the flea
medication on, their cat wouldvomit.
We discussed what theirprocedure was as to how they did
it and with the cat licking itafterwards.
She's no, I always make sure itdoesn't lick it by giving him
this can of cat food that it,that they never get.
I was like, ah, I
Dr. Cerna (32:27):
Yeah,
Dr. Sugerman (32:28):
Probably a can of cat food that you just gave
afterwards that caused an upsetstomach.
Dr. Cerna (32:33):
Yeah.
No, I know.
It's it's, I think it's alwayshard to say that, we, we've seen
this, but I think it's alwayshard to prove the causality or,
I don't know how you would theEnglish term for that.
Dr. Sugerman (32:44):
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (32:45):
Yeah.
That this is what it actuallycost of vomiting.
Dr. Sugerman (32:48):
Exactly.
All right.
Any other things you want totalk about for arthritis with
our kitties?
Dr. Cerna (32:54):
No, I think we have covered actually a lot of, a lot
of things and I am hoping thatwhoever listens to this, if they
have a cat with osteoarthritisat home, they are inspired to
make their cat's life better.
Dr. Sugerman (33:08):
Exactly.
I think this Solensia injectionhas been amazing.
Oh, I actually did have oneother question for you.
Sorry.
Is there any supplements thatyou have recommended for
arthritis?
Dr. Cerna (33:19):
Really tough question I feel like because we live in
a, in a country wheresupplements are not regulated.
So I always tell people, becauseI have sometimes clients who
come to me and they get some 10supplements and I tell them, I
can just mix some sugar andwater and start selling it like
(33:39):
a magic kitty pill for your catto live until they're 25 and
nobody can even sue me for that.
So I think in this, in thiscountry where supplements are
not really regulated, not manypeople actually put their money
into the research of actuallyshowing that these supplements
work and it's not with all ofthem, but unfortunately it is
(34:00):
with majority of them.
And then we actually have noteven any control or testing that
these sometimes they could evencontain like toxic substances,
right?
Or be contaminated withsomething.
So I personally do not reallyuse supplements very often
because I think we just do nothave enough evidence that they
help and they are not regulated.
(34:20):
So I think there are a lot ofrisks with them actually too.
Dr. Sugerman (34:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Dr. Cerna (34:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Sugerman (34:27):
Yeah, thank you so much for answering all these
questions about arthritis in ourkitties and just like how to
tell if they're in pain ingeneral.
I know you had launched a newwebsite and stuff so I would
like to know like how people canget a hold of you now.
Dr. Cerna (34:38):
Oh yeah, thank you so much.
Yeah, it's thewww.CrazyCatVet.com.
So if you want to check mywebsite out, I would very much
love that.
We've just actually hosted afirst conference this year for
cat breeders and I am planning acouple webinars actually this
later this year on felineendocrinology, some infectious
(35:01):
peritonitis as well in cats.
And hopefully this kicks offwell for the rest of the year.
I'm hoping there will be muchmore happening next year as
well.
So it's a lot of work, but I'mvery excited about this.
Dr. Sugerman (35:13):
You've done a lot just in this year.
Dr. Cerna (35:15):
Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman (35:17):
And then I know you're pretty active on, on
Instagram.
I think that's the most thingthing you're most active on.
Is that right?
Dr. Cerna (35:23):
Yes, yes, I tried.
It was my one thing I decidedI'm going to push myself out of
my comfort zone this year,because I definitely, I'm not a,
I hate taking pictures.
And so I do not put any picturesthere of myself.
So don't be, don't be alarmed.
Dr. Sugerman (35:40):
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (35:40):
I only put videos and pictures of cats and I actually
have started posting everyFriday.
We have a feline Friday.
So we talk about some felinemedicine disease topics.
So last Friday we covered thefeline obesity, and I actually
am trying to do a lot of felineeducation to caregivers, but
also other vets, so we, peoplecan learn about all the diseases
(36:04):
cats can get and what to watchout for at home.
So thank you so much formentioning this.
Dr. Sugerman (36:08):
Yeah.
And I know you also have beendoing ones with like different
cat breeds, which I thought wasreally cool.
Cause then you can just learnabout a lot of the different cat
breeds, the good things and thebad things, so I think that's
super important as well to knowwhat are some of the risks with
some of these breeds.
Dr. Cerna (36:22):
Yes.
I think it's important too,because I love pedigree cats so
much, but I think it's alsoimportant that people don't just
look at the cat.
So this is a cute cat I wantedat home because for example, I
think Abyssinian cats andSiamese cats are the cutest cats
I know, but with my lifestyleand their needs, because
pedigree cats are very, verydifferent breed by breed.
(36:43):
And I know Siamese cats are sopeople dependent.
And if I'm not home for 10hours, like I have my British
shorthairs who are completely,perfectly fine being on their
own for 10 hours, while aSiamese cat would probably die.
Dr. Sugerman (36:57):
They'd go crazy.
Yes.
Dr. Cerna (36:59):
Or not seeing me or, I do not want a crazy bengal at
my home, because it's just, I donot have the, I feel like
currently I do not have the timeto dedicate to a crazy bengal to
take him or her out for twohours a day and let them roam
there.
So I post these, the kind oftemperament fun facts about
pedigree cats.
And yes, also there are a lot ofgenetic predispositions in these
(37:22):
breeds.
And so I'm trying to raise anawareness.
So when people go and buy apedigree cat that they know what
diseases they might have andthey should ask their breeders
for testing.
Dr. Sugerman (37:35):
I know for vets.
There's also a really cool thingon there too that you'll do a
consultation internal medicineconsultation for cats as well.
Dr. Cerna (37:41):
Yes, absolutely.
If anybody needs any help, I'malways happy to help.
I actually gave this FIP webinarlast night with, there were over
400 vets there.
And I have about 30 emails thismorning with consults, so I will
have a busy day.
Dr. Sugerman (37:57):
Yeah we'll let you get back to all those emails
then yeah.
Dr. Cerna (38:01):
Me.
I always love to be being hereand talking about cats.
Dr. Sugerman (38:04):
We love, we love having you on so thank you
again, dr.
Turner, so everybody else You'llmake sure to keep your pets
happy healthy and safe.
Thank you guys
Dr. Cerna (38:12):
Bye.
Hi, everybody.
Welcome back to another episodeof Vetsplanation.
I am your host, Dr.
Sugerman, and we have with usagain our Crazy Cat Vet.
Thank you again, Dr.
Černá, for joining us today.
Dr. Cerna (00:11):
Thank you so much for having me here today again.
I'm very excited to be here.
Dr. Sugerman (00:15):
Absolutely.
So we're going to be talkingtoday about pain in cats, and
then somewhat of a relatedtopic, we're going to talk about
arthritis in cats.
So we'll start out with justwith pain because I feel like
with people, we're verydramatic, right?
Compared to an animal, we'revery dramatic about our pain.
Even dogs I feel like are alittle bit dramatic sometimes,
(00:36):
especially like huskies.
I love them, but they'll,anytime they stub their toe,
they're screaming.
Cats are just not the same.
It is really hard to tell if acat's in pain, even for us as a
veterinarian.
So can you describe to me, like,how can we tell if our cat is in
pain?
Dr. Cerna (00:52):
Yeah absolutely.
I think that's, you know, a hugedifference between, like you
said, humans.
So my grandma always used to saythat the deadly disease of men
is cold.
So every time like grandpa wouldhave a cold, it would be really
bad.
And then dogs, I feel like wecan really tell, but cats, what
I always, when I look at cats, Ialways consider them in nature.
(01:14):
They would be both predators,but also preys.
So they are of course, amazinghunters and, but they also are
preys.
And therefore they really try tohide often when they are in pain
or when they're vulnerable,because of course that would
just put the other predatorspotentially at more tempted to
(01:34):
want to hunt them.
Dr. Sugerman (01:36):
Yeah.
They're very unique in that way.
Dr. Cerna (01:37):
Absolutely.
Cats just they are very, verybrave creatures.
They have nine lives.
I strongly believe in that.
Dr. Sugerman (01:44):
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (01:45):
The things I have seen cats pull through, I don't
think anybody else could, butthey're definitely trying to
hide pain, which is a bigproblem for us as doctors, of
course, veterinarians because weare struggling and clients as
well, the caregivers of cats,they really struggle to
recognizing that their cat is inpain and they need to bring them
(02:05):
in.
Dr. Sugerman (02:06):
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (02:08):
Yeah.
So the main signs I think tolook for really is I, for
example, think it can be assubtle as literally just a
tiniest change in a behavioralof the cat.
So for example, my, the love ofmy life, Belina, she sleeps with
me literally on my neck, behindmy head every single night.
And then one night she justwasn't there.
(02:30):
And I was like, Oh, that's soweird.
I wonder, what's going on withBelina.
And then I went downstairs inthe morning to make my coffee as
always.
And.
She just wasn't looking right.
And I looked at her and then shehad a horrible cat bite abscess
actually, because she was in afight with one of my cats the
day before, which was horribleand that cat no longer lives
with us, but yeah he has a greatnew home with one of my friends
(02:55):
because they just were notgetting on well.
But yeah, so it could be assubtle as a tiniest change in
their behavior all, all the wayto then, of course, eating a
little bit less potentially theycan be seeking less attention
usually.
Usually they wouldn't be likelooking for attention more.
Sometimes that can happen too,but most of the times it could
(03:17):
be hiding, trying to sleep alittle more, potentially eating
less as well, and just not doingtheir routine stuff.
Dr. Sugerman (03:27):
So isolating themselves more than they
normally would, right?
I feel like that's probably oneof the top things that people
bring their cat in for whenthere's just, there's no other
signs, there's not vomiting oranything.
They'll bring them in and justsay, they're just not acting
right.
They just, they didn't sleepwith me tonight, or they're
hiding in a weird place thatthey've never been before.
Dr. Cerna (03:46):
Yeah.
Cats love their routine stuff.
So I know, when I come home, Iknow various, I have six cats
and I know where is the favoritespot of each of my cats to
sleep, to rest, when they eat,when they don't eat.
So it's just, cats they lovetheir routine stuff.
That's why I love them so muchbecause, they don't like
changes.
So when something they are,changing their routine, there's
(04:07):
definitely something going onwith them.
Dr. Sugerman (04:09):
And do cats cry out in pain?
Dr. Cerna (04:12):
It's a great question.
They definitely potentiallycould be meowing and be more
vocal if they're in pain, butthey definitely are not usually
yelping like dogs would be.
Every time you, and you work inan ER, so you probably see a lot
of those dogs with pancreatitisand a lot of other issues or
broken bones and they come inand they will be yelping and
(04:33):
really showing how painful theyare.
And, cats just don't really dothat.
They can maybe be like trying tomeow and show us that they might
be something going on, but mostof the time they don't.
Cats can actually interestinglypurr when they're in pain.
So purring is one of my favoritesounds in cats, but cats can
unfortunately purr also whenthey're in pain.
(04:55):
And that's always very sad purr.
Dr. Sugerman (04:58):
Yeah, I did a whole podcast on like why cats
purr and one of the things wastalking about how they're
purring to like self soothethemselves or even potentially
to try to heal themselves withpurring just because of like the
the sound wave that it, that itcomes in as, which is really
cool.
But a lot of people wouldmistake that.
Dr. Cerna (05:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Sugerman (05:17):
And they must be happy, not in pain.
Dr. Cerna (05:20):
Yes.
And they put a very often alsobecause I breed cats, so when
they give birth, when they havethose contractions, they really
are trying to like breathethrough them.
And I think that's reallyhelpful.
Like you mentioned, those likewaves and stuff, I think with
potentially really helps themwith that pain in during labor.
Dr. Sugerman (05:36):
Yeah, yeah, so amazing what they do,
Dr. Cerna (05:39):
Yes, they are the best creatures.
Dr. Sugerman (05:41):
Right?
And you were talking about arethey vocal when they're in pain?
I will say like one of the topthings that I see them
vocalizing or just screaming foris when they have the aortic
thromboembolism or saddlethrombus where they like have a
blood clot that goes to the backlegs.
And for blocked cats who haveurinary obstructions, those are
the two things that I think I'veever heard a cat screaming for.
(06:04):
Even broken bones, they aregoing to try to walk on it.
Dr. Cerna (06:07):
Yes, I was just about to say that actually, the
thrombo, the aorticthromboembolisms.
Those are one of the saddestcases I've had because I think
those cats are really just somuch in pain.
And I think for us vets, it'sreally important to recognize
that and really provide themimmediately with some pain
relief as well.
(06:27):
But I agree.
And I think obstructed cats dothat as well often, but I feel
not always, but the aorticthromboembolism cats, I feel
like they always, are crying outloud and that one is probably
very painful condition.
Dr. Sugerman (06:41):
Exactly.
When you're like, you can breaka leg and not be as painful to
scream, but like that, thoseaortic thromboembolisms, they're
definitely screaming.
Dr. Cerna (06:50):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Like you said, yeah, I see, likelame dogs, it's crying and they
Dr. Sugerman (06:55):
Right.
Dr. Cerna (06:55):
not walk and, cat with a broken pelvis, even,
after our, after car accident,they are still like walking
around and
Dr. Sugerman (07:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Cerna (07:05):
Yeah, I always tell people that cats know that they
are unfortunately so manycreatures, but also humans that
do not like them.
And they just, want to livedespite all those odds.
And they just have amazing willto live.
Dr. Sugerman (07:20):
Yep, exactly.
When we do recognize thatthey're in pain, is there any
way to comfort them for thatpain?
Dr. Cerna (07:26):
Yeah, I think this very much depends what type of
pain, of course, this is,because I think if it's an acute
pain, those ones, because of allthe physiological processes that
happen with those inflammatorycytokines, for example, and
everything, a lot of thesepatients really need to be
brought in and for us to be ableto help them with medications,
(07:48):
because a lot of the acute paincan be really quite challenging
to manage, I think at home.
But for example, then when we goand we'll talk a little bit more
about the osteoarthritis incats, like those chronic pains
there, we can actually makeenvironmental changes at home
and make modifications andadjustments that can help these
(08:09):
cats maybe even improve theirneeds for needing less pain
medications and everything.
So I think with the chronicpain.
We should really notunderestimate it, but I think we
could probably do somemodifications for them to be
able to cope better, especiallywith osteoarthritis that we will
talk about.
(08:29):
But I think with that reallyacute pain, when those cats are
not feeling well, I think it'sreally important to bring them
in.
Because I, for example, had,because cats can develop and you
probably see this a lot in theER.
They can develop the hepaticlipidosis.
So these fatty deposits in theliver, if they stop eating, and
especially those overweight orbig cats, when they stop eating,
(08:51):
they start using their fat forenergy.
And then therefore, of course,they will have these fatty
deposits in the liver, which isof course a huge and even life
threatening problem for thesecats.
Dr. Sugerman (09:03):
I usually tell people, whatever, people are
always asking my dog didn't eatfor 24 hours.
Is that okay?
And I'm like, yeah, dogs cannoteat for a week.
I'm fine with that.
If a cat stops eating for 24hours, then I'm very concerned.
Dr. Cerna (09:14):
Yeah, I am too.
And I actually, one of the worstcases I've ever had of hepatic
lipidosis was a cat that it wasthis two or three year old Maine
Coon cat that had a TPLO for hercruciate.
And the cat was a little lamebefore, compensating, doing
pretty well.
Then she had her, her, her kneesurgery.
(09:34):
And then the cat was in so muchpain and uncomfortable with
those plates.
The cat stopped eating.
Actually developed hepaticlipidosis, became constipated
and actually was brought to thevet.
And because it was a Maine Coonwith unfortunately some ACM, she
got fluid overloaded, so thenshe was in congestive heart
failure, we pulled her throughit, but that was a horrible
(09:56):
complication of a TPLO surgery.
Dr. Sugerman (09:59):
Right, seriously, yeah.
I ought to try to fix one, onepart that was painful.
Dr. Cerna (10:03):
Yes.
And then we cost this wholesequel of problems for her after
that.
Dr. Sugerman (10:08):
Poor thing.
Dr. Cerna (10:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So definitely, if you'reconcerned that your cat isn't
acting right, definitely, bringthem in because it's an
emergency most of the times.
Dr. Sugerman (10:19):
Great.
Was there anything else you wantto say about pain first before
we move on to arthritis?
Dr. Cerna (10:24):
Yeah.
I think I would just really trywhen you bring these cats to the
vet, because of course it'sfirst time we see the cat when
they come to us, and this fromyour experience, sometimes for
us, it can be really hardbecause cats can be very stoic
to really tell.
So I think it's really even thesmallest thing potentially can
help us, try to.
See what might be going on withthe pet because I wish I could
(10:45):
ask the cats.
I wish I spoke cat language andmeow.
And if there was any way I couldlearn that I absolutely would.
But for
Dr. Sugerman (10:53):
I feel like if anybody could, it would be you.
Dr. Cerna (10:55):
I love that.
Yes.
I wish, yeah.
If I could have one superpower,it would be to speak meow.
But yeah, no, I think that wouldbe like really, really important
for us to really know just thesmallest changes because, we'll
do, we'll touch their belly and,dogs with pancreatitis will be
super painful.
In cats, it's so hard to tell aswell.
So really important, justalways, telling us what you
(11:18):
think might be going on orwhat's happening with your cat,
because I think the owners orthe caregivers always know their
cats the best.
Dr. Sugerman (11:27):
Exactly.
And I think also on that point,just making sure whoever does
know the cat the best is theperson that brings them to the
vet.
Because sometimes, you'll have achild or somebody who just
doesn't do a lot of stuff withthe cat.
They come in and what's goingon?
I don't know.
It's just not acting right.
That's so much harder for us.
When they don't give us thesigns that we need to when we're
(11:47):
doing our physical exam to tryto figure out what's going on.
Dr. Cerna (11:50):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So please always, and if if mostof the times it's always, and
again, I am a big feminist and Idon't want to be insulting to
anyone but always if it'susually like the husband who
brings in the cat.
We call the wife and he's alwayslike i'm just the driver or the
personal taxi driver for the catyou need to talk to my wife.
So that always makes me laugh.
(12:11):
Oh,
Dr. Sugerman (12:11):
Yeah.
Perfect.
Anything else about pain incats?
Dr. Cerna (12:17):
I think we've covered quite a lot of it actually and I
think we should maybe talk aboutthe osteoarthritis and actually
recognizing also the chronicpain and maybe the management of
pain as well in cats.
Dr. Sugerman (12:30):
Perfect.
So tell me what isosteoarthritis first?
Dr. Cerna (12:33):
Yeah, so cats, so we call it now more degenerative
joint disease because cats canactually have arthritis also in
their spine.
And so there is also this use ofthe words.
So we probably are a little bitmore inclined of using the term
degenerative joint disease now,so we can cover the spine as
well in these patients.
(12:54):
And unfortunately, sometimes ascats get older and we see that
in humans as well our joints, ofcourse, are losing the kind of
the flexibility therepotentially could be a little
bit more friction.
Sometimes the bones as theytouch each other for many years,
they can become a little bitmore fragile as well.
(13:14):
So this, all of these can, andthere could be some inflammation
in the joints, of course, aswell.
So all of this can trigger painin cats and then they can have
decreased mobility.
So very often what we see inthese cats are changes, for
example, in jumping up or down.
Sometimes these cats are slowingdown.
(13:34):
They don't want to sleep anymorein their favorite places.
So like my cats absolutely lovesleeping on their windows and if
they do not have an access andthey would have to jump really
high to go and sleep on thosewindows, that could definitely
be an issue.
Sometimes if you pet them on theback, they can be a little bit
uncomfortable if you touch themin some area.
So definitely noticing that aswell.
(13:57):
And they usually still eat andotherwise feel okay, but they
could be some changes in theirappetite as well.
But most of it is really, again,those subtle changes of, maybe
they don't, I've had a clientwho told me, you know what, my
cat always used to sleep in bedwith me and now I have bedroom
upstairs and the cat doesn'twant to go up the stairs and
(14:18):
jump into the bed as she used tobecause she's sore.
So these are all these littlethings.
And then the client was very sadbecause he lost his wife and he
only had that cat.
So he was like very upset that,his favorite person almost, our
favorite favorite creature inthe world doesn't want to be
with him at night.
And then, so we startedmedications for the
(14:40):
osteoarthritis and then he wasjust so excited that his cat
comes back to bed again.
Dr. Sugerman (14:46):
Good.
Good.
Nice.
Yeah, and with arthritis, itseems like it's a slow
progression for people who arereally paying attention to all
those little tiny details.
I feel like sometimes it becomesa very a big thing, like not
wanting to jump in the bed whenit's progressed pretty, pretty
far, right?
Dr. Cerna (15:05):
So it really will start.
And I watch because I have a 10year old cat at home now.
So I watch her a lot becausesometimes I feel like she is a
little bit uncomfortable when Ipalpate her spine.
So we are carefully watchingthat, assessing that as well.
She's a huge pain with takingmedication.
So I haven't we tried, we didlike a Gabapentin trial, but she
(15:29):
also has mild allergies, andI've been trying to give her
some antihistamines now, andsometimes I just feel like the
stress because she's abrachycephalic cat, so she has
this smushed face, so every timeI try to medicate her, she goes
into this little bit ofrespiratory distress, she really
is getting upset, and then,spitting the food all over.
(15:49):
And then she doesn't talk to mefor a half of the day, but there
are always definitely ways wehave to find some balance,
right?
Because sometimes giving catsall these medications, maybe
it's not improving their qualityof life.
Dr. Sugerman (16:02):
Exactly.
Dr. Cerna (16:03):
Always really need to find that balance there.
But yeah, I think just reallywatching your cats and making
sure that they are not any hugechanges in their lifestyle is
important.
Dr. Sugerman (16:16):
Yeah, exactly.
I, randomly I had a cat lastweek that the guy said that the
cat just takes pills and pillpockets because he asked me
specifically for pills and notliquids and I was like, what?
Your cat is not a cat.
I don't, I don't understand.
Yeah.
That is amazing.
Dr. Cerna (16:32):
No, and I try now like when I breed kittens and
stuff, I actually teach them totake like empty capsules in
churros and stuff.
So we definitely are working onthat quite a lot because I think
it's really important that catsare really exposed to these
treats and, be motivated whenthey are young.
So when they develop these, allthese diseases, when they are
senior cats, so we have optionsto give them medication.
Dr. Sugerman (16:55):
Yeah.
That's a great idea to do that.
Yeah.
So are there some cats that aremore predisposed to having
arthritis than others?
Dr. Cerna (17:03):
We always see it a lot, of course, in domestic
short hairs.
Absolutely.
It's also one of the most commonbreed of cat, of course, but
these large breeds of cats, likeNorwegian forest cat, Maine
Coons, British short hairs,these cats can even have hip
dysplasia, actually, which wedon't talk about very often in
cats compared to dogs.
But I actually was part of myPhD back in Czech Republic.
(17:27):
I actually looked at prevalenceof hip dysplasia in pedigree
cats there.
And it was surprisingly reallyhigh without the clients not
noticing any clinical signs athome.
So it really sometimes can be,these signs can just be very
subtle.
And this only shows us how oftenwe miss these signs at home.
And so potentially these likelarger breeds.
(17:48):
And unfortunately probably theworst breed for this.
And I think there are definitelyethical concern about even
breeding.
This breed are Scottish foldsbecause in Scottish folds, the
cartilage defect that makes themhave their ears so cutely
folded.
Is actually a defect in theircartilage and it affects their
(18:09):
joints as well.
So I have sadly seen a four orfive month old kittens that are
too painful to jump on a sofaand it's heartbreaking.
Dr. Sugerman (18:18):
Yeah.
Ugh.
So sad.
Dr. Cerna (18:20):
Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman (18:21):
Yeah.
What about if your cat is justoverweight, does that predispose
them to having arthritis aswell?
Dr. Cerna (18:26):
Absolutely.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So we always, of course, when Iactually just made this big post
on my Instagram about felineobesity last week, because of
course, unfortunately this isone of the bigger problems and
being overweight predisposes youto a lot of different issues and
osteoarthritis is one of them.
Dr. Sugerman (18:47):
Exactly.
What are some of the best thingsthat we can do to help these
cats who do have arthritis athome?
Dr. Cerna (18:54):
Yeah.
Environmental modification isvery, very important.
So I had actually a lot of myclients that build these like
huge ramps so the cats can likestill go on the windows and I've
had one cat that had quitesevere osteoarthritis and so
they are then wanted to hang outin only one room.
So the caregivers brought all ofher main resources, right?
Like litter box, food, water,toys, bed, and had these like
(19:18):
special really, really fluffedcushions for her to sleep in
those and everything.
So environmental modificationsand management for these cats
makes a huge difference.
Like I have like little, becauseI have these automatic litter
boxes.
So now for my, 10 year old, Iactually, they sell this little
like ramp to it, like
Dr. Sugerman (19:37):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (19:38):
Up into it.
So I have those, so it's morecomfortable for her to use it.
So environmental modification isvery, very important, but very
often we reach for differentpain medications as well.
Dr. Sugerman (19:52):
What about like warming things?
I saw like a warming blanket theother day at the pet store and
like little warmer beds andstuff for them, what do you
think about that?
Dr. Cerna (20:02):
I think they are wonderful, especially in these
older cats, because they arealso losing muscle mass, so they
really are struggling to keep uptheir body temperature as well.
So I absolutely love those.
I actually have a heat pad in mybed for myself because I have
low blood pressure and I'malways cold and my cats
absolutely love it.
So they all are using it too.
(20:22):
So cats love being warm, right?
Like cats really do not enjoylike roaming around and some
cats will love to play in snowfor a little bit in winter, but
they are not like, I want to beby my fireplace.
And if you see that, like thosepictures of those happy cats
that have like their heat pad infront of the fireplace and it's
super nice soft bed.
(20:43):
I just think with the heat pads,it's really important to make
sure they are safe and weshould, the cat always should
have a choice if they want touse it or not.
So we should never just put aheat pad in the bed.
So always like making sure maybehalf of it is heated and the
other one, no.
Dr. Sugerman (21:00):
Yeah, or one one heated and one not heated type
thing, right?
Dr. Cerna (21:04):
Yeah, we should always give, give them an
option.
Dr. Sugerman (21:07):
We talked we talked before about like we like
them to be able to have levelsto be able to jump up and down
on so do you still do that foryour cats who have arthritis or
do you just make those levelslower?
Dr. Cerna (21:17):
Exactly.
So I still do it for, for thecats with osteoarthritis, but I
try to provide options, so forexample, if I put those shelves
on the wall and even if theywant to go higher, I just want
to make sure that I put thoseshelves maybe from lower and
very close to each other.
So the cat doesn't have to jumptoo much to get to those.
So really providing those kindof, in between steps for them to
(21:40):
be able to still go higherbecause I think cats are really
sad when they cannot go high upand all those ramps, like I
mentioned before, I really haveseveral clients who build them
like these ramps that go fromthe ground to the window.
And then there is a, there is abig pillow or like a big bed for
them on the windows as well.
Dr. Sugerman (21:58):
Nice.
So I know that not everybody'sgoing to be able to recognize at
first that, osteoarthritis intheir cats.
So how can we diagnose it whenthey bring them to the vet
clinic?
Dr. Cerna (22:09):
Yes, that's super great question.
And most of the times, wediagnose them based on our
physical exam and likepalpation.
So when we feel those joints,but radiographs of course, can
be very helpful for thesepatients as well, because we can
see some changes on those x rayspotentially as well in those
joints too.
Dr. Sugerman (22:29):
Yeah, so we're looking for like bony changes a
lot of times, right?
Dr. Cerna (22:33):
Yes, exactly.
And some inflammation around thejoint or soft tissue as well,
potentially.
I feel like the soft tissue wesee more affected with those
acute injuries, like broken, forexample, bones.
But yes, exactly.
Those those changes are alwaysgreat to look for on
radiographs.
Dr. Sugerman (22:50):
And so what can we do then in the veterinary field,
like what do we do to help withcats who have arthritis?
Dr. Cerna (22:55):
Yeah, there are actually so many pain
medications now for cats thesedays.
It can be hard to choose from.
And I have to say all of this isalways very individual.
I've had cats who, opioids likebuprenorphine are great for some
cats.
For some cats, they just do nottolerate them.
Cats can have fever, otherreactions.
They can have hyper salivation,nausea.
Dr. Sugerman (23:18):
Hyper salivation is just drooling by the way.
Dr. Cerna (23:20):
Exactly.
Sorry about that.
Yeah.
So they be
Dr. Sugerman (23:23):
Okay.
Dr. Cerna (23:23):
drooling.
My cat, actually Belina.
She one time got buprenorphinefor cystitis and she goes crazy
high on that medication.
So she just was walking aroundall night, meowing, wouldn't
rest.
So definitely some cats can nottolerate it as well.
Then, we have great medicationslike gabapentin that we use in
(23:43):
human medicine, too.
And for most cats, it's great.
Some cats can really have severesedation side effect from that.
Cats with chronic kidney diseasecan be more sensitive to it
because it gets processed by thekidneys.
So we have to be, we have to becareful in those.
Non steroidal anti inflammatorymedications can be great help
(24:04):
because in these joints usuallyis some inflammation as well.
And these non steroidal antiinflammatory medications, they
have to break down the processof inflammation and decrease it.
But again, in some cats,especially with advanced chronic
kidney disease orgastrointestinal upset, these
can not be always great.
And now we actually have a newdrug on the market.
(24:26):
That's once a month injection ofthese monoclonal antibodies.
And it seems to really target aspecific things in their joints
and really be helping with that.
And I think that really haschanged a, there's been a huge
life changer for a lot of mypatients with osteoarthritis.
Dr. Sugerman (24:46):
Real quick, going back to the non steroidal anti
inflammatories.
For everybody who doesn't know,that's NSAIDs.
It's typically like us takingibuprofen, but something that's
safe for cats, right?
As far as I know, I thinkthere's only two that we can
use, right?
Onsior and MetaCam
Dr. Cerna (25:02):
Yes.
Dr. Sugerman (25:03):
Can use it.
Dr. Cerna (25:04):
Yeah, this is really actually interesting.
So it's only this like black boxlabel in the United States.
So it was my number one NSAID touse in cats when I worked in UK.
And I used it all the time andlong term and then I prescribe
it here.
And our pharmacy would becalling me and Černá, did you go
crazy?
And I was like, I just don't seethe American cats being so
(25:27):
different to the British cats.
And so I've actually been usingit for a lot of other diseases
like cystitis in cats.
When I have inflammation.
I use sometimes dose reduce.
I'm very careful in cats thatare not eating, patients that
are not well hydrated, but in aotherwise healthy cat, even in
senior cat with mild CKD, we nowhave several studies showing
(25:49):
that it's very safe in cats witheven a stage one and stage two
chronic kidney disease.
Dr. Sugerman (25:55):
Wow.
Hopefully they'll change thatthen so we can use MetaCam and
be on label to use for cats.
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (26:01):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I think it would be, I thinkit would be great because Onsior
is only also on label for threedays.
So it's, I think we just need tobe careful when we use it, but
I've used it even in my own catschronically.
And Belina gets NSAID for afterher surgeries and she's a 10
year old cat.
And we still use plenty of ittoo.
Dr. Sugerman (26:23):
Nice.
Sorry.
Now we'll go back to ourinjection.
So the injection, you said oncea month injection, right?
It's called Solensia, I want tosay?
Dr. Cerna (26:29):
Yes, exactly.
Yes, it is called Solensia.
Dr. Sugerman (26:32):
Yeah, I can never remember.
So we have one for dogs, we haveone for cats, so I always have
to go look to see which one iswhich.
Dr. Cerna (26:36):
Yes, and this was an amazing because actually one of
the few drugs that the one forcats came before the one for the
dogs.
Dr. Sugerman (26:45):
Oh really?
Oh, I didn't know that.
Dr. Cerna (26:47):
Yes.
There are not that many drugs.
So I always love when there islike a drug that's labeled for
cats and we use it off label fordogs.
It just makes me so happy.
Dr. Sugerman (26:56):
Because that almost never happens.
We always have things that arefor dogs that we have to use off
label for cats.
Cerenia, yeah, really commonmedication to help with nausea,
and it says for dogs only, butwe use it for cats all the time.
But people get very concernedabout it because it says not for
cats.
Yeah.
Yeah, so Solensia injection, sowe give it once a month.
(27:17):
I've had, so I've had a coupleof I've one cat, my own cat that
I've used it for, and a coupleof my clients that have used it
as well for their cats.
I did notice that the firstinjection maybe didn't work as
well, but by the secondinjection you could definitely
see a pretty big improvement.
Have you seen that as well?
Dr. Cerna (27:34):
Yes, I see in some really huge improvement from day
kind of one, but it definitelyhas happened with several
patients where the second dosehas been more helpful than the
first one.
And then we usually try to keepthem on regular once a month
management as well.
There are, of course, some sideeffects.
They are, technically oftenquite rare.
(27:56):
So I've not seen thempersonally.
But some couple of my colleagueshave seen, I think the worst one
that we see would be someitchiness in these cats.
And I've actually had a coupleof my colleagues who are feline
specialist said that they usedlike a half a dose instead of a
full dose.
And then the next time and thathas helped and the cats were
still comfortable.
And I really think that, yeah.
(28:17):
And I've had few patients where,we were really considering
humane euthanasia for quality oflife from their osteoarthritic
pain.
And then we started them onSolensia started trotting up and
down the stairs again.
So it was beautiful to see and Ithink it's definitely worth
trying.
It's not cheap, however, if youactually think it's just once a
(28:38):
month, and then you think, ifyou have to pill your cat twice
a day, and how much thosemedications cost, it actually
comes up almost to the sameprice.
Dr. Sugerman (28:47):
Yeah, exactly.
And do they always, I don't knowif you know this or not, do you
always have to go into the vetto have the injection done or
have you seen people like sellthe bottle to, to the
Dr. Cerna (28:58):
Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great question.
And I think this one isdefinitely something that, as
veterinarians, we need to becareful about, right?
Because actually like humansgive themselves injections all
the time.
So I, I personally am okay withthe stress for cats coming in
once a month can definitely behigh.
So as long as my caregivers ormy clients are comfortable
(29:22):
injecting those cats once amonth, and I've had some where
they're like, I don't want to doit at home.
It, cost X and X and Zed.
And if I see.
spill it or something happens.
Like I don't want that tohappen.
So they bring the cat once amonth, but I've had had several
clients where, they treat,they've been caring for cats
with chronic kidney disease,they can give subcutaneous
(29:43):
fluids at home, they've beengiving insulin to their cats.
So they have no problem givingthese injections at home as
well.
And, actually I think it'sprobably for a lot of these
probably for a lot of these catsthat are stressful and stress
going to the vet, going once amonth can definitely be
challenging.
We sometimes do these as atechnician appointments.
(30:04):
So the technicians just give theinjections with the clients in
the room and then they go homewithin five minutes.
So we've done that as well.
Dr. Sugerman (30:12):
Yeah, I've definitely had some clients that
they, their cat gets reallystressed coming in to us and all
like that.
But now we're at the end of whentheir injection was working and
so they're also more painful andthen trying to get them into the
carrier.
It just becomes a big heart,heartache for both the owner or
the pet parent who's like tryingto just make them feel better
and the cat who's just reallystressed out from all of this
(30:33):
happening.
Dr. Cerna (30:34):
Exactly.
So I think, it's not thatdifficult to learn to give
injections at home.
I definitely have many clientswho are doing that.
So I think I feel comfortablewith that.
Dr. Sugerman (30:45):
Nice.
Great.
Okay.
And then so you had said thatthere are some side effects.
Itchiness was the worst.
What are some of the other sideeffects that you've seen?
Dr. Cerna (30:52):
Yeah, I think that's probably like the one where we
would see that these cats wouldreally need to stop the
medications.
It's been, there are, there weresafety studies in like chronic
kidney disease cats as well.
So otherwise the side effectsare, are pretty, pretty mild.
And I have not really seen many.
So main one really would be theskin reactions, like itching,
(31:14):
some inflammation, and I thinksome hair loss has been reported
as well.
Dr. Sugerman (31:19):
Is that just in the area where the injection was
given or is it itchiness and allover?
Dr. Cerna (31:24):
Actually all over, actually all over.
And I think there has been smallpercentage of cats that have
been reported to have somevomiting and diarrhea
afterwards.
These are always like hard tosay, is it actually, because
when they actually controlledthe, the Solensia to placebo,
some of those kids were vomitingtoo in the study.
And I don't, because sometimesjust like giving any injection
(31:47):
to a cat can make it stressedand throw up or get diarrhea.
So I don't think there was likea huge percentage.
I think it was like 13 percentof cats that had the Solensia
and 10 percent of cats that werein the placebo group.
So there wasn't like a really ahuge difference between those.
Dr. Sugerman (32:04):
Yeah, and I've also had people who, not with
Solensia specifically, but doingflea medication.
Somebody had told me that everysingle time they put the flea
medication on, their cat wouldvomit.
We discussed what theirprocedure was as to how they did
it and with the cat licking itafterwards.
She's no, I always make sure itdoesn't lick it by giving him
this can of cat food that it,that they never get.
I was like, ah, I
Dr. Cerna (32:27):
Yeah,
Dr. Sugerman (32:28):
Probably a can of cat food that you just gave
afterwards that caused an upsetstomach.
Dr. Cerna (32:33):
Yeah.
No, I know.
It's it's, I think it's alwayshard to say that, we, we've seen
this, but I think it's alwayshard to prove the causality or,
I don't know how you would theEnglish term for that.
Dr. Sugerman (32:44):
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (32:45):
Yeah.
That this is what it actuallycost of vomiting.
Dr. Sugerman (32:48):
Exactly.
All right.
Any other things you want totalk about for arthritis with
our kitties?
Dr. Cerna (32:54):
No, I think we have covered actually a lot of, a lot
of things and I am hoping thatwhoever listens to this, if they
have a cat with osteoarthritisat home, they are inspired to
make their cat's life better.
Dr. Sugerman (33:08):
Exactly.
I think this Solensia injectionhas been amazing.
Oh, I actually did have oneother question for you.
Sorry.
Is there any supplements thatyou have recommended for
arthritis?
Dr. Cerna (33:19):
Really tough question I feel like because we live in
a, in a country wheresupplements are not regulated.
So I always tell people, becauseI have sometimes clients who
come to me and they get some 10supplements and I tell them, I
can just mix some sugar andwater and start selling it like
(33:39):
a magic kitty pill for your catto live until they're 25 and
nobody can even sue me for that.
So I think in this, in thiscountry where supplements are
not really regulated, not manypeople actually put their money
into the research of actuallyshowing that these supplements
work and it's not with all ofthem, but unfortunately it is
(34:00):
with majority of them.
And then we actually have noteven any control or testing that
these sometimes they could evencontain like toxic substances,
right?
Or be contaminated withsomething.
So I personally do not reallyuse supplements very often
because I think we just do nothave enough evidence that they
help and they are not regulated.
(34:20):
So I think there are a lot ofrisks with them actually too.
Dr. Sugerman (34:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Dr. Cerna (34:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Sugerman (34:27):
Yeah, thank you so much for answering all these
questions about arthritis in ourkitties and just like how to
tell if they're in pain ingeneral.
I know you had launched a newwebsite and stuff so I would
like to know like how people canget a hold of you now.
Dr. Cerna (34:38):
Oh yeah, thank you so much.
Yeah, it's thewww.CrazyCatVet.com.
So if you want to check mywebsite out, I would very much
love that.
We've just actually hosted afirst conference this year for
cat breeders and I am planning acouple webinars actually this
later this year on felineendocrinology, some infectious
(35:01):
peritonitis as well in cats.
And hopefully this kicks offwell for the rest of the year.
I'm hoping there will be muchmore happening next year as
well.
So it's a lot of work, but I'mvery excited about this.
Dr. Sugerman (35:13):
You've done a lot just in this year.
Dr. Cerna (35:15):
Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman (35:17):
And then I know you're pretty active on, on
Instagram.
I think that's the most thingthing you're most active on.
Is that right?
Dr. Cerna (35:23):
Yes, yes, I tried.
It was my one thing I decidedI'm going to push myself out of
my comfort zone this year,because I definitely, I'm not a,
I hate taking pictures.
And so I do not put any picturesthere of myself.
So don't be, don't be alarmed.
Dr. Sugerman (35:40):
Yeah.
Dr. Cerna (35:40):
I only put videos and pictures of cats and I actually
have started posting everyFriday.
We have a feline Friday.
So we talk about some felinemedicine disease topics.
So last Friday we covered thefeline obesity, and I actually
am trying to do a lot of felineeducation to caregivers, but
also other vets, so we, peoplecan learn about all the diseases
(36:04):
cats can get and what to watchout for at home.
So thank you so much formentioning this.
Dr. Sugerman (36:08):
Yeah.
And I know you also have beendoing ones with like different
cat breeds, which I thought wasreally cool.
Cause then you can just learnabout a lot of the different cat
breeds, the good things and thebad things, so I think that's
super important as well to knowwhat are some of the risks with
some of these breeds.
Dr. Cerna (36:22):
Yes.
I think it's important too,because I love pedigree cats so
much, but I think it's alsoimportant that people don't just
look at the cat.
So this is a cute cat I wantedat home because for example, I
think Abyssinian cats andSiamese cats are the cutest cats
I know, but with my lifestyleand their needs, because
pedigree cats are very, verydifferent breed by breed.
(36:43):
And I know Siamese cats are sopeople dependent.
And if I'm not home for 10hours, like I have my British
shorthairs who are completely,perfectly fine being on their
own for 10 hours, while aSiamese cat would probably die.
Dr. Sugerman (36:57):
They'd go crazy.
Yes.
Dr. Cerna (36:59):
Or not seeing me or, I do not want a crazy bengal at
my home, because it's just, I donot have the, I feel like
currently I do not have the timeto dedicate to a crazy bengal to
take him or her out for twohours a day and let them roam
there.
So I post these, the kind oftemperament fun facts about
pedigree cats.
And yes, also there are a lot ofgenetic predispositions in these
(37:22):
breeds.
And so I'm trying to raise anawareness.
So when people go and buy apedigree cat that they know what
diseases they might have andthey should ask their breeders
for testing.
Dr. Sugerman (37:35):
I know for vets.
There's also a really cool thingon there too that you'll do a
consultation internal medicineconsultation for cats as well.
Dr. Cerna (37:41):
Yes, absolutely.
If anybody needs any help, I'malways happy to help.
I actually gave this FIP webinarlast night with, there were over
400 vets there.
And I have about 30 emails thismorning with consults, so I will
have a busy day.
Dr. Sugerman (37:57):
Yeah we'll let you get back to all those emails
then yeah.
Dr. Cerna (38:01):
Me.
I always love to be being hereand talking about cats.
Dr. Sugerman (38:04):
We love, we love having you on so thank you
again, dr.
Turner, so everybody else You'llmake sure to keep your pets
happy healthy and safe.
Thank you guys
Dr. Cerna (38:12):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com