June 18, 2024 • 21 mins
Discover the groundbreaking advancements in veterinary oncology with Ashley Kalinauskas, CEO of Torigen. Learn how personalized cancer vaccines are revolutionizing pet cancer treatment by using a pet’s own tumor cells. This episode of Vetsplanation delves into the science behind these innovative vaccines and their impact on thousands of pets. Don’t miss this insightful discussion on the future of veterinary medicine.
In this episode you will learn:
- How personalized cancer vaccines for pets are developed
- The science behind using a pet's own tumor cells for treatment
- Types of cancers targeted by Torigen's vaccines
- Practical steps in creating and administering the vaccines
- Benefits and potential side effects of the treatment
- Combining immunotherapy with chemotherapy and radiation
- Insights into the future of veterinary oncology
- Torigen's role in advancing cancer treatments for pets
- Real-life examples and success stories of treated pets
- How veterinarians and pet owners can access and utilize these treatments
Resources
Torigen’s Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Sugerman (00:01):
Welcome back to Vetsplanation, your go-to
podcast for all thingsveterinary.
We're thrilled to bring you anenlightening conversation with
Ashley Kalinauskas, the founderand CEO of Torigen.
Torigen is at the forefront ofveterinary oncology, pioneering
personalized cancer vaccinesthat have the potential to
transform cancer treatment inpets.
(00:21):
In this episode, Ashley sharesthe fascinating journey of how
cutting edge technologydeveloped in a university lab
evolved into this really amazinggroundbreaking solution for
animals who are suffering fromcancer.
So join us as Ashley delves intothe science behind Torigen's
innovative approach whichinvolves using a pet's own tumor
(00:43):
cells to create a personalizedvaccine.
This method not only preservesthe unique antigens of the
tumor, but it also stimulatesthe immune system to fight the
cancer more effectively.
Ashley discusses the practicalaspects of how this treatment
works and types of cancers thatit targets and the promising
results they've seen so far.
(01:05):
So whether you're a veterinaryprofessional, a pet parent, or
someone interested in the latestadvancements in veterinary
medicine, this episode is packedwith valuable insights.
Learn how Torigen is making asignificant impact in the lives
of thousands of pets, and howthis technology could shape the
future of veterinary cancertreatments.
(01:25):
So sit back, relax, and getready to be inspired by the
incredible work that's beingdone at Torigen.
Let's dive into this excitinginterview with Ashley on
Vetsplanation.
All right.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to Vetsplanation, Ihave Ashley Kalinauskas.
Ah, so close.
Ashley Kalinauskas with me fromTorigen.
(01:49):
All right, so I'm really excitedto be talking to you today can
you just tell me a little bitabout Torigen?
Ashley Kalinauskas (01:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
So my name is Ashley.
I'm the founder and CEO ofTorigen, and I started the
company right from grad school.
So at the University of NotreDame, I was working in a lab
that had developed really a cooltechnology for the creation of a
personalized cancer vaccine.
And the backbone of ourtechnology was really how we
(02:15):
preserved the antigens on thesurface of a tumor cell, So that
they retained their shape, butstill were immunogenic when
presented back.
So what we were able to do wastake those tumor cells, preserve
them, combine them with aninnovative biomaterial that
really aided in an adjuvantingapproach in order to help
(02:37):
stimulate the immune systemagainst cancer.
In our lab we had worked onprostate cancer, ovarian cancer,
melanoma, mammary carcinoma,really advancing this for the
potential for the human market.
And it wasn't until my professorand co founder, mark, his own
dog, developed metastatic oralsquamous cell carcinoma that we
(03:00):
said, what about the veterinarymarket?
Dr. Sugerman (03:03):
Yeah, that's amazing.
There's so many many thingshappen in human world, that we
wish we have over in theveterinary world.
So I'm really really excitedthat you guys did that.
Ashley Kalinauskas (03:12):
Me too.
And I think it was just a reallyamazing choice for us.
And, being able to help, nowthousands of dogs, cats, and
horses, it's just been truly anamazing journey.
Dr. Sugerman (03:23):
Are you guys thinking about working on exotic
animals?
Ashley Kalinauskas (03:27):
Yeah, we actually do treat a few exotics,
not too many to date, but we'vehad a one bearded dragon, a lot
of ferrets.
We, we treat a lot of rats.
That's like our, our main breadand butter in the lab was rats
and mice.
And then I think we have onebird, but I am no bird
immunology expert by any stretchof the matter.
Dr. Sugerman (03:46):
I think that this could even help like zoo
animals.
It could be be just amazing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (03:51):
Exactly.
Especially when chemotherapyreally can't be an option for
certain animals or we don't haveany protocols for them.
Dr. Sugerman (03:59):
Absolutely.
Now, when we have these tumors,from what I understand is that
we have to remove the tumor, thewhole thing, and then send a
send piece to Torigen, right?
Ashley Kalinauskas (04:09):
Yeah, so we say tumors to Torigen, not in
formalin, so my little jingle.
So we require the tumor to besent into us.
We want as much of that tumor aspossible.
And once that tumor comes in,what we're going to do is we're
going to save representativeportions of those cells, take
(04:29):
those, put it in our minus 80freezer.
Take the rest of that tumor, putit into formalin, and send it
off for a histopathologicaldiagnosis.
Now, the other option is thatmaybe veterinarians just want to
save a few punches, a few punchbiopsies, so they can take as
much as they can to saverepresentative portions.
(04:49):
Send that into us, take therest, put it into formalin.
But we like to see ourselves asreally that tumor concierge
service, that we can handle thattumor for you from start to
finish.
And our goal is to develop ourown pathology service later this
year.
Dr. Sugerman (05:05):
Very cool.
That'd be be amazing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (05:07):
I'm excited for it.
Dr. Sugerman (05:09):
So does it matter if the tumor is is removed, or
what if just a portion of the ofthe tumor is removed?
Ashley Kalinauskas (05:14):
Yeah, so with an immunotherapy, we're
utilizing the cells of theimmune system to fight the cells
that are remaining.
So I give the example of if Itook a punch biopsy out of a
tumor on a chihuahua that's thesize of a football, we have a
lot of cells that we need tostart fighting against and
(05:35):
inside of a tumor microenvironment, there's a lot of
inhibition that goes on.
There's a lot of down regulationof the immune system.
So when we're able to take outmore of that tumor and really 70
percent or more is the benchmarkI like to use, then we know that
we're at least overcoming someof that inhibitory kind of cells
(05:56):
that are still left in thatmicro environment, but I love to
position immunotherapy as thecleanup afterwards.
If we didn't get good margins,if we know that we've had cells
that are still left there andremaining, or we have a tumor
with a high metastaticpotential, leveraging
immunotherapy in that way canreally be a good positioning of
(06:17):
this product.
Dr. Sugerman (06:19):
Nice.
So you say about 70%.
Does it matter like the size?
Cause if I have a dog who camein the other day who's literally
his tumor was like the size of abasketball.
Is it still gonna matter that70%?
Ashley Kalinauskas (06:35):
I think if we have a tumor the size of a
basketball, our goal is going tochange for the immunotherapy.
If we can let it, if we takeout, as much as we can, but we
only took out of a softball outof the size of the basketball,
then can we just hold it and letin place for a longer period of
time.
And if we could do that, then Ithink that's going to be a win
(06:55):
for that patient.
If we start to see that tumorstart regressing over time, then
again, I think that's going tobe a win too.
But, if we have the majority ofthat tumor removed, we're
utilizing the immunotherapy asthe better cleanup.
I think that's going to bereally where we can start, you
know, how long could we preventthat tumor from coming back for
(07:15):
as long as possible.
Dr. Sugerman (07:17):
Nice.
And then we give this this backto the pet?
Ashley Kalinauskas (07:20):
Yeah.
So once the tumor comes to us,we're again, saving those
representative portions.
And then once the veterinariangives us the green light to move
forward with the vaccineproduction, what we're doing is
we're bringing it into the lab.
We're taking those tumor cells,preserving the antigens on the
surface, because when I think ofcancer, I really think of it as
(07:41):
the fingerprint of what wentwrong.
So those proteins on the surfaceare an exact replica of the DNA
that has been mutated that hasnow resulted in these novel
proteins.
So we want to preserve those.
We take those, we bring it downto a cellular level, we
deactivate everything, combineit with our innovative adjuvant
(08:05):
and then it's really a vaccinevial.
And the vaccine is given backonce per week for three weeks,
administered subcutaneously, andwe recommend administration next
to a lymph node when possible.
Dr. Sugerman (08:17):
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
What, you prefer like popliteallymph like the one in the back
of the legs for people who don'tknow that what that is?
Ashley Kalinauskas (08:25):
Yeah.
So it depends on where the tumoris.
So if we do have a tumor on theleg being able to administer
right at next to the popliteallymph node, I think can be a
great option.
Otherwise the nape of the neckwould be fine too for the
vaccine irregardless.
So that you're able to have thatsystemic administration over
time.
Dr. Sugerman (08:42):
Great.
And then can you use this withchemotherapy and radiation as
well or it need to be separatefrom from that?
Ashley Kalinauskas (08:49):
Yeah, so it absolutely can be combined with
chemotherapy and radiationtherapy.
We recommend for certain chemos,certain chemos can be paired
with this even on the same day,depending on what it is, and
actually can have this reallyamazing additive effect.
But if there's any hesitancytowards what chemotherapy you're
utilizing, reach out to ourteam, reach out to our
(09:11):
veterinary oncologists that areon staff and able to help to be
like, what does this combo looklike?
Just because we don't want animmunosuppressive environment in
that pet.
So one of the things werecommend against is prednisone.
We want that pet to be offprednisone for two weeks because
that's going to suppress theimmune system and just reach out
(09:32):
to us if there's any questionsor concerns about what combo
therapies can be done.
And we'll help provide thattiming.
With radiation therapy.
That's the one that gets mereally excited.
So radiation plus immunotherapy,like both preclinically in our
lab, and then also what we'reseeing out in the field is it
really has this additive effect.
(09:53):
It's truly the scenario whereone plus one can equal five.
So not only can you have a localdesiccation and degradation of
the tumor that's still there,but adding in a systemic effect
in order to help prevent thattumor from coming back for a
longer period of time ordecreasing the potential for
metastatic nodules to be and popup, I think that it becomes
(10:16):
really exciting opportunity.
Dr. Sugerman (10:19):
Wow, I know that our oncologist who comes into
our clinic, she really lovesusing this.
Ashley Kalinauskas (10:25):
Thank you.
Yeah.
I think it can become an optionfor the owners that either want
to do it all, or maybe it's acombination of just surgery plus
this vaccine to be utilized.
Dr. Sugerman (10:37):
And can it be used with any sort of tumor?
Let's say maybe even like atumor the spleen?
Ashley Kalinauskas (10:42):
So we have really strong data for our
metastatic hemangiosarcoma, soit can be utilized for tumors of
the spleen.
It can be used for any solidtumor.
So the most common that we treatare the hemangiosarcomas, mast
cell tumors, soft tissuesarcomas, melanomas, squames.
Those are our top five.
(11:02):
Lymphomas are the ones that,we're really not well positioned
for.
If we're able to get a lymphnode biopsy, then yes, we can
create the vaccine and we wouldrecommend a combination with
chemotherapy.
Maybe start with chemo, get itdown to, the minimal residual
disease that we really can'tfind it because one of the hard
parts about lymphoma is it'sjust everywhere because it's a
(11:23):
bloodborne cancer.
Being utilizing chemo to get ourexponential curve down to a
really small level and thenpairing immunotherapy on as more
of that cleanup effect is whereI think we're better positioned.
Dr. Sugerman (11:37):
Nice.
It seems like this is somethingthat can be worked the future as
well for like new cancers or newinnovative things.
Ashley Kalinauskas (11:46):
Absolutely.
I think that there's some reallyamazing combinations that can be
done with immunotherapy.
And I'm so excited to continuethe research there so that we
can understand where that bestpositioning could be.
I know one of the ones thatmakes me really excited is
utilizing our vaccine alongsideGilvetmab, which is a new
(12:07):
monoclonal antibody specificallyfor mast cell tumors and
melanomas.
And If you're able to...
we talked about that inhibitorytumor micro environment that
you're always trying to overcomeno matter what therapy by
utilizing a product likeGilvetmab that really helps turn
on the immune system inside ofthat micro environment.
(12:29):
If you have that basketball sizetumor, and now you start having
a turn on inside of the immunesystem at a higher level, and
then you're activating anddriving more T cells that are
going to help fight those tumorcells there.
Like our product plus a productlike a monoclonal antibody,
Gilvetmab, can really can reallydo some cool things.
Dr. Sugerman (12:51):
Wow.
What if the pet has multipletypes of cancers?
Can it work for that?
Ashley Kalinauskas (12:57):
A great question.
So because we're utilizing theactual cells of that tumor,
let's say if we have multiplemast cells, if we only take one
of those mast cell lesions, isthere a possibility that we can
affect, the numbers two, threeand four.
Absolutely.
Now, if we only take a mast celltumor and we expect it to work
(13:17):
against, maybe the patient has aoral melanoma at the same time,
then no, we're not going to beable to have an effect by
utilizing the mast cell tumoragainst that oral melanoma.
They are two different types ofcells.
Now, And let's say if both ofthose cell samples were
submitted in, we can create a,normally we'll separate them out
into two series of the vaccinesand that they can be given at
(13:40):
the same time because they'refighting different targets.
Dr. Sugerman (13:43):
Wow.
I didn't realize they could begiven at the at same.
I assumed it would have to belike stacked thing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (13:48):
At the same time shouldn't be a problem
because you're able to stimulateboth sides at once.
Stacking it could maybe have alittle bit of a potential
benefit, but it's unknownbecause hopefully not many
patients are coming in with twoseparate types of cancer at the
same exact time for treatment.
Dr. Sugerman (14:05):
Yeah, I've had one that was a splenic tumor and a
tumor on the liver.
They're two completely differentones.
You just just never know it'sgoing to happen.
Ashley Kalinauskas (14:15):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Sugerman (14:16):
And then can any veterinarian use use this
service?
Ashley Kalinauskas (14:19):
Yeah, any veterinarian can work with us
and leverage our team and kindof the white glove tumor
concierge service.
We work with a lot of referralpractices that partner with the
oncologist that we work with.
Because a lot of times thereferral veterinarian is the one
that's doing the surgery thefirst time.
So if they send that tumor intous and we save a portion and
(14:42):
bank it, what we're leaving openis the option for immunotherapy.
So that immunotherapy can goback to that general
practitioner or it could be sentto the oncologist for
administration too.
It's really up to their comfortlevel.
But yeah, we work with allveterinarians.
Dr. Sugerman (14:59):
Nice.
And are there are any sideeffects that we need to know
about?
Ashley Kalinauskas (15:01):
Yeah, so really well and, and understood
safety profile here that's beenwell published too.
Injection site redness,irritation at the injection site
and just mild lethargy.
So like when we get the flu orCOVID vaccine and we feel a
little, little yicky for thatday, that's really what we see.
And in the world of cancertherapies, that's really not
(15:22):
much.
Dr. Sugerman (15:23):
Exactly.
We can have some really badeffects to some of these
chemotherapies.
Ashley Kalinauskas (15:27):
Totally.
And you know, chemotherapy ismeant to depending on what the
mechanism is, we're trying tokill those cells that are there,
or we're trying to completely,disrupt that regulation, but
we're giving it systemically.
So we're disrupting a lot ofthings in the, in the making.
Whereas with a targetedimmunotherapy, your goal is to
(15:48):
build up the immune responseagainst the antigen that you're
providing back.
So you're able to have thathighly targeted approach that
the side effects that we see arebecause the immune system is
becoming activated, not becauseof other things happening.
Dr. Sugerman (16:05):
And I know you had kinda talked about the cost
before.
How is this this in comparisonto like chemotherapy and
radiation therapy?
Ashley Kalinauskas (16:14):
Yeah, we're typically about half the cost of
chemotherapy.
So we're an affordable optionthat can be considered inside of
veterinary medicine.
Dr. Sugerman (16:25):
That's fantastic.
Ashley Kalinauskas (16:26):
Thank you.
And, I think with our team andbuilding out the expertise that
we have, we're just so happy to,to be able to help and be able
to answer questions thatveterinarians may have.
And customer service is numberone to us, of course, but when
we're dealing with something asserious as cancer, we want to be
able to get you the answers thatyou need, so we really welcome
(16:49):
veterinarians to reach out andwe'd be happy to help any way we
can.
Dr. Sugerman (16:53):
Are pet parents allowed to call in as well?
Ashley Kalinauskas (16:56):
Of course, pet parents are allowed to call
in, but we really defer allanswers to the veterinarian and
all questions.
And we would be happy to eventouch base with your
veterinarian or give yousomething to hand to your
veterinarian.
But we don't know that pet andwe don't know your pet.
When a pet parent calls in, aslong as surgery is an option and
(17:16):
we're talking to you prior tosurgery, then we would be happy
to give you a handout to talk toyour veterinarian about
utilizing a personalizedimmunotherapy.
Dr. Sugerman (17:27):
And how do we get all the materials and stuff to
the veterinarian to send it toyou?
Ashley Kalinauskas (17:31):
Yeah.
On our website Torigen.com, T OR I G E N.com, we have a
veterinarian resource hub, andthen you can also email us
info@torigen.com, give us acall.
We will, you can pick up thestyrofoam cup and try to, try to
answer it.
We will get to you no matter howwe can, and we would be so happy
(17:53):
to talk to you.
Dr. Sugerman (17:55):
Amazing.
Was there anything else youwanted you to share Ashley?
Ashley Kalinauskas (17:58):
No, I, I just, I'm really proud of the
little company that we'rebuilding.
I'm really excited for ourfuture as we build on our new
diagnostic service.
And I think that there's just alot that we can do as a
veterinary community to helphave more pets treated after a
cancer diagnosis.
Dr. Sugerman (18:16):
You call it a little company, but I feel like
this is going to be like such ahuge thing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (18:20):
Hope so.
And I think, I think thatoncology deserves it and it
deserves novel products that arepositioned both within oncology,
within specialty practice, butthen GPs as well, so that more
pets can be treated.
And, I think there has to bemore focus here because with 50
(18:43):
percent of all dogs over the ageof 10 dying from cancer, we need
more therapies to help.
Dr. Sugerman (18:49):
And I think this is a new thing, 50 years ago we
didn't have a lot of pets dyingfrom cancer.
They just didn't live as long.
Ashley Kalinauskas (18:57):
Yeah, exactly.
They died of heartworm, or,other more preventable diseases,
or, were living out in the, inthe yard, but now as our pets
are our children and our babies,we're trying to do everything
that we can, so our pets areliving longer, they're living
right beside us, and, they'redeveloping very similar cancers
(19:17):
that humans get, too, that we'reseeing in our animals.
Add on breed specificity forcertain tumor types and, we're,
we're left with certain breedsdeveloping certain tumors at
almost predictable time pointsand being able to have more
therapies to help them is justwhat we need in the industry.
Dr. Sugerman (19:36):
Yeah, exactly.
So I always ask a question atthe end.
Do you have any pets?
Ashley Kalinauskas (19:42):
I do.
Hang on.
There's my photo of him.
That's Dave mini golden doodle.
He's the love of my life and my,my baby.
Dr. Sugerman (19:51):
Aww.
Ashley Kalinauskas (19:52):
Then here at the office, so we're a pet
friendly, outside of ourlaboratory, we have a friendly
side of the office.
So we have two, two pups in heretoday.
We have Piper, an AustralianShepherd, and we have Reggie, a
giant pit bull that is thebiggest and cutest hippopotamus
that you've ever seen.
Dr. Sugerman (20:11):
That's amazing.
I love that it's such a petfriendly area.
Ashley Kalinauskas (20:13):
Absolutely.
It has to be.
Dr. Sugerman (20:15):
Yeah.
All right.
Thank you, Ashley.
I really appreciate you comingon to talk about Torigen.
Like I said, I think this isgoing to be such a huge thing,
so I I really appreciate it.
Ashley Kalinauskas (20:25):
Thank you.
I appreciate being here, too,and happy to help anyone that
wants to reach out.
Dr. Sugerman (20:29):
Awesome.
Thank you everybody forlistening in.
As always, please make sure tosure your pets happy, healthy,
and safe.
Thank you for tuning in to thisenlightening episode of
Vetsplanation.
We hope you found our discussionwith Ashley of Torigen as
fascinating and as informativeas we did.
Ashley's insights into thepersonalized cancer vaccines and
their potential to revolutionizeveterinary oncology is truly
(20:53):
inspired.
As always, we aim to bring youthe latest and most impactful
developments in veterinarymedicine.
If you have any questions orwant to learn more about the
topics we discussed today, besure to visit Torigen's website
at Torigen, T-O-R-I-G-E-N,Torigen.com Remember, you can
always reach out to yourveterinarian to discuss how
(21:15):
these advancements might be abenefit to your own pet.
We appreciate your continuedsupport and encourage you to
share this episode with fellowpet lovers and veterinary
professionals.
Don't forget to subscribe toVetsplanation on your favorite
podcast platform so you nevermiss another episode.
So stay tuned for more expertinterviews and insightful
(21:37):
discussions to help keep yourpets happy, healthy, and safe.
Next week we'll be talking toBlake Dubé from Pawprint Oxygen
about how to help our petsreceive oxygen during
transportation and at home.
We'll see you next week.
Welcome back to Vetsplanation, your go-to
podcast for all thingsveterinary.
We're thrilled to bring you anenlightening conversation with
Ashley Kalinauskas, the founderand CEO of Torigen.
Torigen is at the forefront ofveterinary oncology, pioneering
personalized cancer vaccinesthat have the potential to
transform cancer treatment inpets.
(00:21):
In this episode, Ashley sharesthe fascinating journey of how
cutting edge technologydeveloped in a university lab
evolved into this really amazinggroundbreaking solution for
animals who are suffering fromcancer.
So join us as Ashley delves intothe science behind Torigen's
innovative approach whichinvolves using a pet's own tumor
(00:43):
cells to create a personalizedvaccine.
This method not only preservesthe unique antigens of the
tumor, but it also stimulatesthe immune system to fight the
cancer more effectively.
Ashley discusses the practicalaspects of how this treatment
works and types of cancers thatit targets and the promising
results they've seen so far.
(01:05):
So whether you're a veterinaryprofessional, a pet parent, or
someone interested in the latestadvancements in veterinary
medicine, this episode is packedwith valuable insights.
Learn how Torigen is making asignificant impact in the lives
of thousands of pets, and howthis technology could shape the
future of veterinary cancertreatments.
(01:25):
So sit back, relax, and getready to be inspired by the
incredible work that's beingdone at Torigen.
Let's dive into this excitinginterview with Ashley on
Vetsplanation.
All right.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to Vetsplanation, Ihave Ashley Kalinauskas.
Ah, so close.
Ashley Kalinauskas with me fromTorigen.
(01:49):
All right, so I'm really excitedto be talking to you today can
you just tell me a little bitabout Torigen?
Ashley Kalinauskas (01:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
So my name is Ashley.
I'm the founder and CEO ofTorigen, and I started the
company right from grad school.
So at the University of NotreDame, I was working in a lab
that had developed really a cooltechnology for the creation of a
personalized cancer vaccine.
And the backbone of ourtechnology was really how we
(02:15):
preserved the antigens on thesurface of a tumor cell, So that
they retained their shape, butstill were immunogenic when
presented back.
So what we were able to do wastake those tumor cells, preserve
them, combine them with aninnovative biomaterial that
really aided in an adjuvantingapproach in order to help
(02:37):
stimulate the immune systemagainst cancer.
In our lab we had worked onprostate cancer, ovarian cancer,
melanoma, mammary carcinoma,really advancing this for the
potential for the human market.
And it wasn't until my professorand co founder, mark, his own
dog, developed metastatic oralsquamous cell carcinoma that we
(03:00):
said, what about the veterinarymarket?
Dr. Sugerman (03:03):
Yeah, that's amazing.
There's so many many thingshappen in human world, that we
wish we have over in theveterinary world.
So I'm really really excitedthat you guys did that.
Ashley Kalinauskas (03:12):
Me too.
And I think it was just a reallyamazing choice for us.
And, being able to help, nowthousands of dogs, cats, and
horses, it's just been truly anamazing journey.
Dr. Sugerman (03:23):
Are you guys thinking about working on exotic
animals?
Ashley Kalinauskas (03:27):
Yeah, we actually do treat a few exotics,
not too many to date, but we'vehad a one bearded dragon, a lot
of ferrets.
We, we treat a lot of rats.
That's like our, our main breadand butter in the lab was rats
and mice.
And then I think we have onebird, but I am no bird
immunology expert by any stretchof the matter.
Dr. Sugerman (03:46):
I think that this could even help like zoo
animals.
It could be be just amazing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (03:51):
Exactly.
Especially when chemotherapyreally can't be an option for
certain animals or we don't haveany protocols for them.
Dr. Sugerman (03:59):
Absolutely.
Now, when we have these tumors,from what I understand is that
we have to remove the tumor, thewhole thing, and then send a
send piece to Torigen, right?
Ashley Kalinauskas (04:09):
Yeah, so we say tumors to Torigen, not in
formalin, so my little jingle.
So we require the tumor to besent into us.
We want as much of that tumor aspossible.
And once that tumor comes in,what we're going to do is we're
going to save representativeportions of those cells, take
(04:29):
those, put it in our minus 80freezer.
Take the rest of that tumor, putit into formalin, and send it
off for a histopathologicaldiagnosis.
Now, the other option is thatmaybe veterinarians just want to
save a few punches, a few punchbiopsies, so they can take as
much as they can to saverepresentative portions.
(04:49):
Send that into us, take therest, put it into formalin.
But we like to see ourselves asreally that tumor concierge
service, that we can handle thattumor for you from start to
finish.
And our goal is to develop ourown pathology service later this
year.
Dr. Sugerman (05:05):
Very cool.
That'd be be amazing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (05:07):
I'm excited for it.
Dr. Sugerman (05:09):
So does it matter if the tumor is is removed, or
what if just a portion of the ofthe tumor is removed?
Ashley Kalinauskas (05:14):
Yeah, so with an immunotherapy, we're
utilizing the cells of theimmune system to fight the cells
that are remaining.
So I give the example of if Itook a punch biopsy out of a
tumor on a chihuahua that's thesize of a football, we have a
lot of cells that we need tostart fighting against and
(05:35):
inside of a tumor microenvironment, there's a lot of
inhibition that goes on.
There's a lot of down regulationof the immune system.
So when we're able to take outmore of that tumor and really 70
percent or more is the benchmarkI like to use, then we know that
we're at least overcoming someof that inhibitory kind of cells
(05:56):
that are still left in thatmicro environment, but I love to
position immunotherapy as thecleanup afterwards.
If we didn't get good margins,if we know that we've had cells
that are still left there andremaining, or we have a tumor
with a high metastaticpotential, leveraging
immunotherapy in that way canreally be a good positioning of
(06:17):
this product.
Dr. Sugerman (06:19):
Nice.
So you say about 70%.
Does it matter like the size?
Cause if I have a dog who camein the other day who's literally
his tumor was like the size of abasketball.
Is it still gonna matter that70%?
Ashley Kalinauskas (06:35):
I think if we have a tumor the size of a
basketball, our goal is going tochange for the immunotherapy.
If we can let it, if we takeout, as much as we can, but we
only took out of a softball outof the size of the basketball,
then can we just hold it and letin place for a longer period of
time.
And if we could do that, then Ithink that's going to be a win
(06:55):
for that patient.
If we start to see that tumorstart regressing over time, then
again, I think that's going tobe a win too.
But, if we have the majority ofthat tumor removed, we're
utilizing the immunotherapy asthe better cleanup.
I think that's going to bereally where we can start, you
know, how long could we preventthat tumor from coming back for
(07:15):
as long as possible.
Dr. Sugerman (07:17):
Nice.
And then we give this this backto the pet?
Ashley Kalinauskas (07:20):
Yeah.
So once the tumor comes to us,we're again, saving those
representative portions.
And then once the veterinariangives us the green light to move
forward with the vaccineproduction, what we're doing is
we're bringing it into the lab.
We're taking those tumor cells,preserving the antigens on the
surface, because when I think ofcancer, I really think of it as
(07:41):
the fingerprint of what wentwrong.
So those proteins on the surfaceare an exact replica of the DNA
that has been mutated that hasnow resulted in these novel
proteins.
So we want to preserve those.
We take those, we bring it downto a cellular level, we
deactivate everything, combineit with our innovative adjuvant
(08:05):
and then it's really a vaccinevial.
And the vaccine is given backonce per week for three weeks,
administered subcutaneously, andwe recommend administration next
to a lymph node when possible.
Dr. Sugerman (08:17):
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
What, you prefer like popliteallymph like the one in the back
of the legs for people who don'tknow that what that is?
Ashley Kalinauskas (08:25):
Yeah.
So it depends on where the tumoris.
So if we do have a tumor on theleg being able to administer
right at next to the popliteallymph node, I think can be a
great option.
Otherwise the nape of the neckwould be fine too for the
vaccine irregardless.
So that you're able to have thatsystemic administration over
time.
Dr. Sugerman (08:42):
Great.
And then can you use this withchemotherapy and radiation as
well or it need to be separatefrom from that?
Ashley Kalinauskas (08:49):
Yeah, so it absolutely can be combined with
chemotherapy and radiationtherapy.
We recommend for certain chemos,certain chemos can be paired
with this even on the same day,depending on what it is, and
actually can have this reallyamazing additive effect.
But if there's any hesitancytowards what chemotherapy you're
utilizing, reach out to ourteam, reach out to our
(09:11):
veterinary oncologists that areon staff and able to help to be
like, what does this combo looklike?
Just because we don't want animmunosuppressive environment in
that pet.
So one of the things werecommend against is prednisone.
We want that pet to be offprednisone for two weeks because
that's going to suppress theimmune system and just reach out
(09:32):
to us if there's any questionsor concerns about what combo
therapies can be done.
And we'll help provide thattiming.
With radiation therapy.
That's the one that gets mereally excited.
So radiation plus immunotherapy,like both preclinically in our
lab, and then also what we'reseeing out in the field is it
really has this additive effect.
(09:53):
It's truly the scenario whereone plus one can equal five.
So not only can you have a localdesiccation and degradation of
the tumor that's still there,but adding in a systemic effect
in order to help prevent thattumor from coming back for a
longer period of time ordecreasing the potential for
metastatic nodules to be and popup, I think that it becomes
(10:16):
really exciting opportunity.
Dr. Sugerman (10:19):
Wow, I know that our oncologist who comes into
our clinic, she really lovesusing this.
Ashley Kalinauskas (10:25):
Thank you.
Yeah.
I think it can become an optionfor the owners that either want
to do it all, or maybe it's acombination of just surgery plus
this vaccine to be utilized.
Dr. Sugerman (10:37):
And can it be used with any sort of tumor?
Let's say maybe even like atumor the spleen?
Ashley Kalinauskas (10:42):
So we have really strong data for our
metastatic hemangiosarcoma, soit can be utilized for tumors of
the spleen.
It can be used for any solidtumor.
So the most common that we treatare the hemangiosarcomas, mast
cell tumors, soft tissuesarcomas, melanomas, squames.
Those are our top five.
(11:02):
Lymphomas are the ones that,we're really not well positioned
for.
If we're able to get a lymphnode biopsy, then yes, we can
create the vaccine and we wouldrecommend a combination with
chemotherapy.
Maybe start with chemo, get itdown to, the minimal residual
disease that we really can'tfind it because one of the hard
parts about lymphoma is it'sjust everywhere because it's a
(11:23):
bloodborne cancer.
Being utilizing chemo to get ourexponential curve down to a
really small level and thenpairing immunotherapy on as more
of that cleanup effect is whereI think we're better positioned.
Dr. Sugerman (11:37):
Nice.
It seems like this is somethingthat can be worked the future as
well for like new cancers or newinnovative things.
Ashley Kalinauskas (11:46):
Absolutely.
I think that there's some reallyamazing combinations that can be
done with immunotherapy.
And I'm so excited to continuethe research there so that we
can understand where that bestpositioning could be.
I know one of the ones thatmakes me really excited is
utilizing our vaccine alongsideGilvetmab, which is a new
(12:07):
monoclonal antibody specificallyfor mast cell tumors and
melanomas.
And If you're able to...
we talked about that inhibitorytumor micro environment that
you're always trying to overcomeno matter what therapy by
utilizing a product likeGilvetmab that really helps turn
on the immune system inside ofthat micro environment.
(12:29):
If you have that basketball sizetumor, and now you start having
a turn on inside of the immunesystem at a higher level, and
then you're activating anddriving more T cells that are
going to help fight those tumorcells there.
Like our product plus a productlike a monoclonal antibody,
Gilvetmab, can really can reallydo some cool things.
Dr. Sugerman (12:51):
Wow.
What if the pet has multipletypes of cancers?
Can it work for that?
Ashley Kalinauskas (12:57):
A great question.
So because we're utilizing theactual cells of that tumor,
let's say if we have multiplemast cells, if we only take one
of those mast cell lesions, isthere a possibility that we can
affect, the numbers two, threeand four.
Absolutely.
Now, if we only take a mast celltumor and we expect it to work
(13:17):
against, maybe the patient has aoral melanoma at the same time,
then no, we're not going to beable to have an effect by
utilizing the mast cell tumoragainst that oral melanoma.
They are two different types ofcells.
Now, And let's say if both ofthose cell samples were
submitted in, we can create a,normally we'll separate them out
into two series of the vaccinesand that they can be given at
(13:40):
the same time because they'refighting different targets.
Dr. Sugerman (13:43):
Wow.
I didn't realize they could begiven at the at same.
I assumed it would have to belike stacked thing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (13:48):
At the same time shouldn't be a problem
because you're able to stimulateboth sides at once.
Stacking it could maybe have alittle bit of a potential
benefit, but it's unknownbecause hopefully not many
patients are coming in with twoseparate types of cancer at the
same exact time for treatment.
Dr. Sugerman (14:05):
Yeah, I've had one that was a splenic tumor and a
tumor on the liver.
They're two completely differentones.
You just just never know it'sgoing to happen.
Ashley Kalinauskas (14:15):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Sugerman (14:16):
And then can any veterinarian use use this
service?
Ashley Kalinauskas (14:19):
Yeah, any veterinarian can work with us
and leverage our team and kindof the white glove tumor
concierge service.
We work with a lot of referralpractices that partner with the
oncologist that we work with.
Because a lot of times thereferral veterinarian is the one
that's doing the surgery thefirst time.
So if they send that tumor intous and we save a portion and
(14:42):
bank it, what we're leaving openis the option for immunotherapy.
So that immunotherapy can goback to that general
practitioner or it could be sentto the oncologist for
administration too.
It's really up to their comfortlevel.
But yeah, we work with allveterinarians.
Dr. Sugerman (14:59):
Nice.
And are there are any sideeffects that we need to know
about?
Ashley Kalinauskas (15:01):
Yeah, so really well and, and understood
safety profile here that's beenwell published too.
Injection site redness,irritation at the injection site
and just mild lethargy.
So like when we get the flu orCOVID vaccine and we feel a
little, little yicky for thatday, that's really what we see.
And in the world of cancertherapies, that's really not
(15:22):
much.
Dr. Sugerman (15:23):
Exactly.
We can have some really badeffects to some of these
chemotherapies.
Ashley Kalinauskas (15:27):
Totally.
And you know, chemotherapy ismeant to depending on what the
mechanism is, we're trying tokill those cells that are there,
or we're trying to completely,disrupt that regulation, but
we're giving it systemically.
So we're disrupting a lot ofthings in the, in the making.
Whereas with a targetedimmunotherapy, your goal is to
(15:48):
build up the immune responseagainst the antigen that you're
providing back.
So you're able to have thathighly targeted approach that
the side effects that we see arebecause the immune system is
becoming activated, not becauseof other things happening.
Dr. Sugerman (16:05):
And I know you had kinda talked about the cost
before.
How is this this in comparisonto like chemotherapy and
radiation therapy?
Ashley Kalinauskas (16:14):
Yeah, we're typically about half the cost of
chemotherapy.
So we're an affordable optionthat can be considered inside of
veterinary medicine.
Dr. Sugerman (16:25):
That's fantastic.
Ashley Kalinauskas (16:26):
Thank you.
And, I think with our team andbuilding out the expertise that
we have, we're just so happy to,to be able to help and be able
to answer questions thatveterinarians may have.
And customer service is numberone to us, of course, but when
we're dealing with something asserious as cancer, we want to be
able to get you the answers thatyou need, so we really welcome
(16:49):
veterinarians to reach out andwe'd be happy to help any way we
can.
Dr. Sugerman (16:53):
Are pet parents allowed to call in as well?
Ashley Kalinauskas (16:56):
Of course, pet parents are allowed to call
in, but we really defer allanswers to the veterinarian and
all questions.
And we would be happy to eventouch base with your
veterinarian or give yousomething to hand to your
veterinarian.
But we don't know that pet andwe don't know your pet.
When a pet parent calls in, aslong as surgery is an option and
(17:16):
we're talking to you prior tosurgery, then we would be happy
to give you a handout to talk toyour veterinarian about
utilizing a personalizedimmunotherapy.
Dr. Sugerman (17:27):
And how do we get all the materials and stuff to
the veterinarian to send it toyou?
Ashley Kalinauskas (17:31):
Yeah.
On our website Torigen.com, T OR I G E N.com, we have a
veterinarian resource hub, andthen you can also email us
info@torigen.com, give us acall.
We will, you can pick up thestyrofoam cup and try to, try to
answer it.
We will get to you no matter howwe can, and we would be so happy
(17:53):
to talk to you.
Dr. Sugerman (17:55):
Amazing.
Was there anything else youwanted you to share Ashley?
Ashley Kalinauskas (17:58):
No, I, I just, I'm really proud of the
little company that we'rebuilding.
I'm really excited for ourfuture as we build on our new
diagnostic service.
And I think that there's just alot that we can do as a
veterinary community to helphave more pets treated after a
cancer diagnosis.
Dr. Sugerman (18:16):
You call it a little company, but I feel like
this is going to be like such ahuge thing.
Ashley Kalinauskas (18:20):
Hope so.
And I think, I think thatoncology deserves it and it
deserves novel products that arepositioned both within oncology,
within specialty practice, butthen GPs as well, so that more
pets can be treated.
And, I think there has to bemore focus here because with 50
(18:43):
percent of all dogs over the ageof 10 dying from cancer, we need
more therapies to help.
Dr. Sugerman (18:49):
And I think this is a new thing, 50 years ago we
didn't have a lot of pets dyingfrom cancer.
They just didn't live as long.
Ashley Kalinauskas (18:57):
Yeah, exactly.
They died of heartworm, or,other more preventable diseases,
or, were living out in the, inthe yard, but now as our pets
are our children and our babies,we're trying to do everything
that we can, so our pets areliving longer, they're living
right beside us, and, they'redeveloping very similar cancers
(19:17):
that humans get, too, that we'reseeing in our animals.
Add on breed specificity forcertain tumor types and, we're,
we're left with certain breedsdeveloping certain tumors at
almost predictable time pointsand being able to have more
therapies to help them is justwhat we need in the industry.
Dr. Sugerman (19:36):
Yeah, exactly.
So I always ask a question atthe end.
Do you have any pets?
Ashley Kalinauskas (19:42):
I do.
Hang on.
There's my photo of him.
That's Dave mini golden doodle.
He's the love of my life and my,my baby.
Dr. Sugerman (19:51):
Aww.
Ashley Kalinauskas (19:52):
Then here at the office, so we're a pet
friendly, outside of ourlaboratory, we have a friendly
side of the office.
So we have two, two pups in heretoday.
We have Piper, an AustralianShepherd, and we have Reggie, a
giant pit bull that is thebiggest and cutest hippopotamus
that you've ever seen.
Dr. Sugerman (20:11):
That's amazing.
I love that it's such a petfriendly area.
Ashley Kalinauskas (20:13):
Absolutely.
It has to be.
Dr. Sugerman (20:15):
Yeah.
All right.
Thank you, Ashley.
I really appreciate you comingon to talk about Torigen.
Like I said, I think this isgoing to be such a huge thing,
so I I really appreciate it.
Ashley Kalinauskas (20:25):
Thank you.
I appreciate being here, too,and happy to help anyone that
wants to reach out.
Dr. Sugerman (20:29):
Awesome.
Thank you everybody forlistening in.
As always, please make sure tosure your pets happy, healthy,
and safe.
Thank you for tuning in to thisenlightening episode of
Vetsplanation.
We hope you found our discussionwith Ashley of Torigen as
fascinating and as informativeas we did.
Ashley's insights into thepersonalized cancer vaccines and
their potential to revolutionizeveterinary oncology is truly
(20:53):
inspired.
As always, we aim to bring youthe latest and most impactful
developments in veterinarymedicine.
If you have any questions orwant to learn more about the
topics we discussed today, besure to visit Torigen's website
at Torigen, T-O-R-I-G-E-N,Torigen.com Remember, you can
always reach out to yourveterinarian to discuss how
(21:15):
these advancements might be abenefit to your own pet.
We appreciate your continuedsupport and encourage you to
share this episode with fellowpet lovers and veterinary
professionals.
Don't forget to subscribe toVetsplanation on your favorite
podcast platform so you nevermiss another episode.
So stay tuned for more expertinterviews and insightful
(21:37):
discussions to help keep yourpets happy, healthy, and safe.
Next week we'll be talking toBlake Dubé from Pawprint Oxygen
about how to help our petsreceive oxygen during
transportation and at home.
We'll see you next week.
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