Surviving the BRUTAL Road to Sobriety: Tony’s Life Story

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I was found lifeless, blue, fullblown cardiac arrest, dead on my
couch, opiates, 3 or 4 days parting and next thing you know,
I'm not even breathing. And there's this doctor guy I'll
never forget. He said, young man, if your
friends would have got you here within about two more minutes,
you wouldn't be with us anymore on earth.
The home that I owned was gone. The cars that I owned were gone.

(00:20):
The three or four credit cards and bank accounts were gone.
Anybody who loved me didn't wantto do with me at that point.
I'm a frequent flyer to jails, hospitals and institutions.
People would tell me like you'rephysically dependent on this,
the substance, you know, and I didn't even know that at the
time. And I never thought that would
ever be this guy right here to me.
They reviewed my rap sheet and you know, the District Attorney
in the public defender and they're like, the jails just

(00:41):
don't seem to be working for you've already arrested
countless times and they're all drug and alcohol related.
Do you want to change? And so Long story short, I go
into this place and I'm just absolutely broke in.
That was my first taste of actual true recovery and true
sobriety. That place introduced me to a 12
step program where I got involved and I really started to
just go all in. You have anything to say to

(01:02):
people that want to be done, butthey're not done.
They're still using people that are thinking about a a or just
sober like, you know what I'm saying?
That that guy. I mean, honestly.
Dude, good to see you. I'm definitely excited to talk
to you man. I didn't, I did not know you
were half Japanese. I went to a reform school for a

(01:24):
couple years and like one of my really close friends there was
Japanese, lived in Hawaii and stuff.
But he would try to explain to me the concept of honor.
And like he was like, Westernerscannot grasp that concept of
honor. And he said it's a way bigger
accountability than like integrity.
It's it's so much deeper. Like you dishonor your family

(01:44):
and you don't have a son. He was trying to explain it and
I kind of grasped it and I was like, man, that's that's
intense. Like everything, like don't
dishonouring your family, your name, the worst thing you could
do is that something you relate to?
It is over there, it's just a whole different culture.
Like if you drop your wallet in the mall, I'd say probably 95%
chance you're going to get it back from the person behind you.

(02:06):
America. No.
No, that's that's that's a wholenother ball game right there
there to the laws. And like the time you'd go away
for for breaking the laws is so significant and a lot of people
just don't do it. And like you said too, it's also
not only because of the, you know, repercussions, but also
cause of the just the family andthe disgrace and all that stuff

(02:26):
that goes with. It so theft is dishonorable.
That's awesome. Yeah, 'cause it is.
It is. It's not yours.
Yeah, you know, yeah. But yeah, it's such a different
society and culture over there, but it's just it's.
That's sick man. And Kaizen, like I, I view this,
that concept to me is like one of my favorite philosophies.

(02:47):
I guess every episode I try to get better at something and just
incremental improvements on whatever your task is.
And yeah, you, you try as hard as you can and whatever you do
to get better each time, you're going to do good things if you
if you live that way. My mom instilled that in me.
She goes, and that means stay strong.

(03:07):
So like there'd be times in my life where things weren't going
so good and get up and try it again and get up and try it
again. You feel like that failure
point. And then she'd, like, scream
that in my ear and it'd kind of get me to, you know, give it one
more shot. Instead of being like emotional
was there? How are the emotions handled in
Japanese culture it. Varies, but I don't know.

(03:28):
My mom is very not very strict, but it's like a different type
of love, if that makes sense. Type of love that's like it's
not the the huggy bear love and here pat on the back love.
It's more or less just like showing you love through action,
you know? And it's, it's more or less it's
tough love, really. Yeah, so I'm gonna make you a

(03:49):
good human. Kind of love and you don't even
know that that's transpiring or taking place behind the scenes,
but as they're making you do difficult things and these
chores that you hate and and going to school, you know, extra
early 'cause her biggest thing was always preparation.
Like, if you're prepared in life, you're going to win.
And so that's true. Exactly.
When you go super early to work and you're already ahead of the
game and you stay late. All those little fundamentals I

(04:11):
had no idea of, She was secretlykind of teaching me.
And when I hated them back then,when I got to be an adult, yes.
Thank you, Michael. They kick it.
Yeah. I'll work everyone, dude.
Yeah. And now my kid who just turned
11, she hates it 'cause I'm slowly feeding her that same
stuff. Yeah, yeah.
You know, yeah. But I was reminded her, one day
you'll appreciate it. Yeah.
So you, you lived in Japan school there for a year in 3rd

(04:33):
grade. Where are you who from
originally? So my parents were living in
Pacifica back in the 1979. I was born in 80 and they just
could not afford to live in Pacifica.
OK, even back then, no, even back then it.
Just wasn't financially doable for my dad's salary, whatever
he's making. And so they moved to South
Sacramento and it was just rough, dude, that we had a high

(04:55):
speed chase end in our court. We lived in a court and all I
remember hearing is it's like 2:30 in the morning.
I'm just a little kid at the time and I just hear get off
your bed, go on the ground. There's somebody out there.
It was my dad with a shotgun. And what what what we found out
later was a high speed chase ended in our court and these
people were jumping the fences because was a creepy on our
house. And that was the final straw

(05:15):
after tons of other events that were not as bad, but bad.
And my parents were like, let's go to Citrus Heights.
Yeah, that's where I grew up is in Citrus Heights.
What part of South SAC was it? South SAC.
This was right by Kennedy Elementary.
I think it was over by like a foreign Rd. behind the mall kind
of over there, yeah. Man, absolutely that good CD.
For sure, it was definitely something else.

(05:39):
So what was your home life like in child?
How was your the culture of yourhome?
You, you talked a little bit about kind of tough love.
So my dad met my mom when he's in the Air Force in Japan.
And because he was in the Air Force and she obviously had
already that tough love mindset,it was like a double whammy.
You know, both of them are just all over.
Me. You know, and I know they love

(06:00):
me because they always provided,you know, clothes and food and
like they, they just showed me love.
But it was almost like I felt like I was getting hit with a
drill Sergeant every day from both ends, you know, and the,
the home life was good because, you know, my parents are
normies. They don't drink, they don't do
drugs, they don't smoke. They're just good square bear
people, you know? And so, and I'll have one

(06:21):
younger sister who's two years younger than me and she was just
like them. So growing up, it was cool.
You know, I mean, we were never rich and not even close to, you
know, middle class, just probably right under middle
class. You know, my parents just made
it and just kind of got by and just, you know, but they always,
you know, everything was well taken care of.
Boss is clean. Dad was always, you know,

(06:43):
busting his butt at work and coming home and doing all kinds
of projects with us and stuff. So yeah, it was good.
Your hashtag or your screen name's sober gain.
So obviously you're sober now, meaning at one point you needed
to get sober. Do you think like the the
pressure built up from childhoodand you needed to get relief or
whatever? At at what age did you start
noticing? Hey I think my behavior is going

(07:05):
awry. I know I started dabbling in
7th, 8th grade, hanging out the darker crowd and things like
that. And so I don't know, I
definitely straight away from myparents around that time 'cause
I just felt the pressure from home.
I didn't like it. And I just seen other people
doing other things that seemed really attractive, you know?
And I know that's when I startedto head in that direction and

(07:27):
just not listen as much and not come home as much.
And they didn't like it, and they would punish me.
But there was always be what I'dalways find a way around it, you
know? And so that's when it really
started to just kind of slowly take off in those early years,
Yeah. And was it like drinking in 7th
grade? We yeah, yeah.
It was just. Smoking and drinking, pretty
much just hanging out with friends.
And of course they're they're older cousins and and brothers,

(07:49):
you know, the older crowd that kind of mixed in there.
So yeah. What was your social life like
in 7th grade? You.
Know what I hung out with a bunch of skateboarders and
stoners. You know, 7th, 8th grade.
I was just into skateboarding, became really good at it.
I got entered in some league called Castle California
Association skateboard league. End up getting sponsored by a
surf and skate board shot I remember.

(08:11):
That I skated. I wasn't good, but I skated for
a few years. Two of my friends, one of them
went pro and is still out there killing it, you know, But I just
had a certain point. After I got into high school,
skateboarding just wasn't so cool anymore.
And girls and a pound of weed and yeah, the car was a lot
better. A pound.
OK. So you were into kind of dealing

(08:31):
it too and it. Eventually got there, yeah.
So there was a different, you know, time where all of a sudden
went from smoking to. You meet some people that can,
hey, you can get rid of this andthat kind of stuff.
And when you have, you know, when you're young and you got a
car and you're chasing and you're already done with the
skateboarding thing and you wantto go a different direction and
you see these other possibilities start to, you

(08:52):
know, open up right in front of you.
That's just kind of where it went.
I didn't even have a, you know, no plan, just kind of OK you.
Know, it's especially younger kids now like when they hear
weed they're like, oh, smoking weed.
Everybody smokes weed. When we were young it was like
extremely illegal and so the people that you had to be
associated with to get weed werelike the equivalent of getting
meth These days, you know it might as well to go and pick up

(09:14):
like a half eighth of weed, you're almost committing A
felony you know and so it doesn't sound like a big deal to
be getting stoned in 7th and 8thgrade.
It was. That's pretty.
That's a pretty gnarly crowd you're gonna run with yeah.
And. Back then too, it's just it's
more cat Boo. Back then, you know, we didn't
have these things like weed shops and head shops and little
cards that say it's it's OK to do it and buy it here.

(09:35):
It was totally underground, you know, And so either, like you
said, either new people, I remember being in high school
and having a pager, you know, yes.
And that's how everybody would get ahold of me.
And then I would make these calls back and then have meet
three people in a parking lot and, you know, or just say, hey,
on Friday night I'll be at this party, you know, and.
That was the jail for weed. A bowl, by the way, Not anything
cool like a pound or whatever. Literally arrested taking a jail

(09:59):
over a bowl. Yeah, people don't even believe
me these days, right? Yeah, doesn't.
Even seem like that's. Yeah, yeah, Different times.
Did it cross into drugs? Anything at any point 1. 100% Oh
no, yeah, yeah, yeah. Eventually it's just not good
enough anymore, you know, And soI don't know, probably right
after I graduated is when it started crossing over into other
things. And I just, I didn't like the

(10:21):
sedated feeling. I didn't like the paranoia.
It wasn't hitting me the same anyways, cause 7th, 8th grade
and in the beginning, you know, parts of high school is more,
you know, munchies and just giggling and, and having fun.
Just kind of the social thing todo with six or seven, you know,
friends and you know, some, somegirls over there just doing
that. But after a while, what happened
to me, I don't know if anybody got late, but I just started

(10:43):
getting really paranoid and overthinking things and feeling
uncomfortable and just I didn't like the effects anymore.
And then of course you meet those other friends that have
other substances and I started doing, you know, cocaine and
pain pills 'cause that's just the direction.
It's hard to go. Dude, we got.
Blasted with those oxes in high school.
Like just flooded out of nowhere.

(11:03):
Same, same thing. I was smoking a little weed and
all of a sudden just boom, here's 40 bucks for 80 milligram
oxy and it's cool, though it lasts all day.
And oops, there goes five years.Yeah.
I definitely hit that exact samepoint, yeah.
It was just, I'd already been out of high school for a while,
but, you know, it was started dabbling with the the cocaine
stuff. And then all of a sudden it's

(11:23):
like, I want to come down from this.
And that's how I got introduced to his first Vicodin and then
Orcos. And then of course, you need a
few of those, so might as well bump up to what you're talking
about. Yeah, dude, these green guys and
the. Green guys.
Oh shit, Yeah, you're right there.
You. Know I used to lift up.
My I'd have a. Black T-shirt on and there would
just be dots of green because I would just.
Yeah. Lick it off.

(11:44):
Keep it off, get it off time. Released out of there, it'd be
like. What?
And it'd be underneath my shirt,you know, So definitely that.
Stuff, that stuff's crazy. Like pretty quickly you get to a
point where all you're trying todo is not be sick.
It's not like it's disgusting. You're not even getting high
anymore. It's horrible and like the
desperate feeling and almost ready to like beg for it and

(12:06):
stuff. And oh God, I was right.
There with you, you know goes from the honeymoon phase where
this is just fantastic and this is it right here I love this to
Oh my gosh, why do I feel like Ihave a an elephant on my chest
and I'm getting hot and cold flashes and my stomach's upset
and I can't eat and I feel like I have a the flu times 100.
Why is this happening to me? And then I then I realized, you
know, people would tell me like,you're physically dependent on

(12:29):
this, the substance, you know, and I didn't even know that at
the time. And I remember that first
encounter of that. And then from that point on, I
always just had to have as much as possible.
But you know that it all starts to go there's.
Never enough. There's never.
Enough. It's just you can't keep up with
that demand that you know, And it's almost like I had it down
to a science. I almost knew like about 12
hours here. Yeah, you know.

(12:49):
Hopefully the Kinect still gonnabe around.
Christmas is tomorrow, you know,like that.
You know those days where it's like the holidays are coming,
you have to be around family, friends and.
Try to get as many as you can and not do them ahead of time
and fail. So you just like detoxing with
the? Or you overshoot the mocking you
too much to sustain. Yeah, now you're nodding.
You're nodding and itching your face.

(13:10):
Oh. Yeah, the nose itch.
I forgot about that. Yeah.
Just constantly, I would feel sowarm and fuzzy.
My parents like, what's wrong with you?
You know? And I'm at Christmas dinners,
like, literally nodding into my plate.
And they're like, are you OK? He's not right.
Oh. Good you.
Know, but they just wouldn't fully understand 'cause like I
mentioned earlier, they're normies.
And also, you know, by that time, it's like I have my own

(13:31):
place and my own career at the time, and it's like normies.
Are people that don't have addiction and alcohol problems.
Yeah, like my mom is like and dad, it's like they could have
maybe 2 drinks throughout the year, 1 on like New Year's and
one maybe like on a summer day and not even finish it.
I'm like, what you doing? And.
Like. You're still like that much in
your college. Mind boggling, you know, to me.

(13:52):
Mm hmm. You know?
How did that end like 'cause youdon't do it now, where did, how
low did that go? And what was the breakthrough
where you're like, dude, I'm, I'm done.
Was it the first try? Talk to me a little bit about
how you got out of it. There's a long.
And the short of that, yeah, I probably tried to quit hundreds,

(14:13):
countless times on my own. And just to try to white knuckle
it, I could never make it past more than a day or two because
that sick feeling is just something that it's hard to live
with when you have an extremely high tolerance, you know, and
you're crashing off that and you're trying to slowly get
yourself down to a, you know, taper yourself.
It just never worked for me. Never worked.

(14:33):
So for me, there was a dark period about four to five years
to where, you know, the home that I owned was gone, the cars
that I owned were gone, the three or four credit cards and
bank accounts were gone. And I'm going through this
period of life of where it's I'ma frequent flyer to jails,
hospitals and institutions. And I never thought that would

(14:53):
ever be this guy right here withme.
And what end up happening my first go around is I got I got
arrested for like the 18th, 19thtime.
I went to this nasty place called Sacramento County Jail on
High Street. Did you?
Go to the barracks or the floorsat this.
Time it's just the holding tank at the the this last go around
and I didn't know it was going to be my last go around there,

(15:16):
you know, and they hauled me offthe court a couple days later
and I'm sitting there and they reviewed my rap sheet and, you
know, the District Attorney and the public defender and they're
like, the jails just don't seem to be working for you.
You've already been arrested countless times and they're all
drug and alcohol related. Do you want to change?
And that was like the $1,000,000question.
For some weird reason, I got some people actually cared, you

(15:38):
know, and. He's calling the justice system.
Yeah. How old were you at that point?
Man, I think I was probably 28 going on 2928, yeah.
So they asked if you wanted to actually change.
Yeah. And you know, I said yes to
that. And they offered me something
different that I never heard of before.
They put me in a place called Salvation Army Adult

(15:59):
Rehabilitation Center. They said it's a six month
program, but the judge wants youto do nine months there and that
sound like a death sentence. I'm like 9 months in this place
right here dude. That's a hardcore program.
I I don't just yeah, continue. So they're said it's located on
EE and 9th Street downtown Sacramento.
And I said, what's it like there?
Like it's it's like 90 guys in ahouse.

(16:21):
You're going to have to work during the day and then you're
going to have all these other different, you know, tools for
recovery, you know, after work that you're going to, they're
going to process you through anddo all this and that.
And it sounded terrible, you know, but the other hand was I'd
already been to jail countless times.
I'd already experienced being homeless and losing, you know,
all the, the stuff that I acquired out there not let alone

(16:43):
like the, the important stuff. Like by then, my parents
wouldn't even talk to me. I wasn't invited to Thanksgiving
or Christmas at this time. So they're already, you know,
not even a part of my life. And anybody who loved me didn't
want to do with me at that point.
And so Long story short, I go into this place and I'm just
absolutely broke and I take the deal for nine months.
And that was my first taste of actual true recovery and true
sobriety. You know, that place introduced

(17:05):
me to, you know, a 12 step program where I got involved and
I really started to just go all in and catch fire for the thing.
And that was the beginning of it.
You know, that's. Sick.
Did you graduate the Salvation Army I.
Did dude. That's, I don't know how to
explain to the audience what that means, but that's a really
big deal. That's a hardcore reform

(17:26):
program. Like people get better because
they are putting in so much work.
You're up so early working all day and then you come back, more
work. It breaks people, people that
graduate from that. It's like boot camp times 3 for
a lot longer. And I don't want to take from
any military boot camp, but I can tell you the stories I've

(17:47):
heard. It is pretty hardcore.
It's. Intense.
It's rigorous, it's very structured in a way that it
almost sounds daunting, but you're right.
You wake up super early, you gotto go to work therapy and do all
the whatever your job task is. And on top of that, you're
living with 90 other guys who either are mentally ill in a
way, or maybe face another prison time, or maybe they're

(18:09):
trying kind of run it like a prison, you know, So there's all
these different. Yeah.
There's all those politics in this, this stuff that just makes
it even more, you know, challenging than it already is.
And so, yeah, I graduated in sixmonths.
It wasn't easy. You there's every day I would
see people either get deleted orwritten up.
And what I mean by deleted is like, they'd already, you know,
got in trouble so many times that they're just, it's time to

(18:31):
go kick them out. Yeah.
Or they're they're so rigid to the point where it's like if you
don't check back in by 10 O clock on a Friday night and it's
1001, it doesn't matter. Bye.
There's just some stuff that's just a showstopper.
It's it's instantly done. If you certain rules are just,
it's. Just not.
It sounds hardcore, but addiction is that serious.
Like it's that serious. It's literally life and death.

(18:52):
You were fighting for your life,so you want to get out of it.
This is how strict it's got to be.
And. To be honest, when I went in
there, I knew it to my core. This is what I needed.
Like for some word reason, therewas something just pulling on my
heartstrings. Like, as much as I don't want to
be here and this just is like really terrible and like, why am
I even here? I needed every second of that.

(19:12):
You know, that's cool because atthat point in my life too, I
couldn't keep a regular career. I couldn't manage money.
I couldn't. There's just areas of my life
that were just annihilated because of, you know what I
suffer from the addiction and I just didn't have that skill set
anymore. It was just gone.
And it almost like it kind of reprogrammed me and restructured
me to be able to, when I got outof there, to start to rebuild my

(19:36):
life and have some of these skills that I lost or, you know,
so I definitely needed it, you know, So what did?
You do after you graduated. Actually went to, they sent me
to a place that was really cool.They sent me to a place called
Mather Community campus. Oh wow.
And it's on the Air Force Base on the Mather 50.
And it was, it was a two year free program for anybody that

(19:56):
that already had graduated from an intense program like
Salvation Army. So there's other guys and girls
coming out of treatment centers,getting into there, and there's
an extensive waiting list. It was like a God shot because I
had nowhere else to go. I had no other plan really.
You know, I probably could couldhave begged a couple people to
let me couch surf for a while and do all that.
But and. They might not have, you know,
somebody had a. Different plan.
I got accepted into Mather Community campus.

(20:19):
Back then it was a federal and state funded program to where
they give you like a Motel 6 room, like a studio for free for
two years. And on top of that they give you
like a bus pass good for, you know, every month you get a new
sticker, a 200 hour food card and they feed you three times a
day. And they gave me tons of classes
which would help me rebuild my life.
Credit class to help my credit that was just annihilated to, to

(20:41):
get rebuilt into what was important.
All that good stuff, right. Also expungement.
I went through an expungement process there 'cause I had all
those arrests and that was, you know, a challenge in itself to
be able to get another good career 'cause I'd, you know,
done so many bad things. So yeah, they, they provided
stuff like that. And what ended up happening to
me, I didn't stay there the whole 2 years.

(21:03):
My sister at the time gave me like an opportunity with the
company she worked at. And once Mather found out, like
how much money I was making. Like, you really can't stay here
unless you pay X amount of dollars.
But you're not the typical, you know, like there's a threshold
here. And if you know, you're, you're
making money. So you should either be able to
live on your own or pay us X amount of dollars.
And at that point, I decided to just go ahead and thank them for

(21:24):
everything they've done for me. And I exited and you know you.
Were there two years? No.
It was a two year program. I was only there for, I don't
know, I think I left on the 7th or 8th month.
Yeah. But I still continue to do a lot
of the same stuff with the expungement process and still go
down, you know, different thingsthat the programs that they set
me up with was able to continue,if that makes sense.

(21:44):
Oh, it does. Dude, yeah, that's that's coming
from the bottom going through salvation, going through Mather
State funded. Imagine the people that you're
going to be around when something's free and they're
already at the bottom of society.
So full respected. I didn't know that it.
Was something else. And just to make it even fun,
you're like, there's a sophisticated room called the

(22:05):
Pea Queen Room. And so literally you'd get a
knock at the door at 5:30 in themorning and there would be a
note saying you have to go to the go see the pee queen the
next 4 hours or you're deleted. Meaning like they would randomly
do this to anybody there. And so there would be days I'd
go up, get up and start doing mystuff.
Like you know who got deleted today?
And there would be like 5 peoplegone, gone, gone.

(22:25):
Because what would happen is they'd get that knock and they'd
have to go down there. They'd pee dirty or they would
try to not go there. You just see what happened.
And that's considered a dirty too if you dodge it.
Wow. So yeah, a lot of my friends got
deleted. Like, oh man, there's all kinds
of, you know, just. That's rough.
Yeah, if you're there, that's the.
Accountability level that they have because of all what they're
offering. The part of the program is 100%

(22:46):
abstinence. You can't have anything in your
system which. Is not an unfair ask right you?
Know yeah, so. What happened after Mather?
Where'd you go after? Mather got my own place Careers,
rebuilding things are just things are looking really good.
I end up paying it off my 3 Duisand I, I, I was facing like, I
think it was like 4800 bucks to get my license back.

(23:07):
So it was humble pie. I started riding the bus at 2829
or whatever age I was at that time riding the bus to work and
getting rides from girlfriends or whatever at the time.
And I paid like I think more than half of that that $4800 and
all of a sudden in the mail one day there was like some amnesty
program and they had paid the rest of it off for me.
Like, I don't know, that's stillkind of a mystery to this day.

(23:29):
That's. Good karma, you were you were
living right. I was trying and the rest of it
just. There's some kind of cosmic
force, dude, when you're trying to live right and you're helping
other people, which is part of, you know, 12 step programs and
you're, you're paying your debtsand you're going back and fixing
your mistakes. Not just, I'm sorry, but
atonement, like paying people you owe, acknowledging the hurt.

(23:51):
Magic things happen. Like, you're so right.
Things get doors open, things that don't make sense, you know,
debt forgiven. Yeah.
What? Were.
You doing for work? At that time I was.
Working for a home improvement company and I was running the
retired call center. So I had like 45 people
underneath me. I was doing a a shift of, of
management and also like some HRstuff and payroll stuff.

(24:13):
So I was wearing 3 or 4 different hats, you know, doing
it that way and it was really good.
I got to about three years of sobriety and my life.
It just totally looked differentfrom when I came into Salvation
Army. And at a ride around the
three-year mark is I just thought it was different.
I thought that I don't know, I don't need the meetings.
I don't need the sponsor guy, you know, with these hard

(24:35):
questions. I don't need to go pour coffee
for my Home group on a Friday night, which is sounds
inconvenient when I went On thisdate or go to the gym or
whatever it is, right? Yeah.
And I just started to relax in the program of action.
I just started to just say startto say no a lot.
You know, in the beginning was everything was yes.
And. Did you see it happening as it
was happening? I did, but I didn't.

(24:56):
And what I mean by that, it was a very short window.
It was OK, all these yeses and then all of a sudden there was
like this two-month period whereI just started to say no.
So it was, it was just kind of all of a sudden, I don't know,
it was, it was a trip, 'cause now looking back I can totally
see it, but in the moment I really could isn't.
That weird? Yeah.
Yeah, 'cause I was so busy with life and the career and this and

(25:17):
some vacations and her and whatever else was I was juggling
of time. Yeah.
And being newly sober for the first time around and actually
having put together some days and starting to get in shape and
there was just other facets of my life that I felt were more
important. Yeah, if you know what I mean.
Oh. Yeah, for sure the ego grows
back. And so I, you know, I I've been
honest about it. I was in the 12 step program.

(25:38):
I'm not sure I smoke a little weed.
But what people don't understandabout like addiction or when
that hits you, it never looks like I'm gonna just throw three
years away and you know what I'mgonna risk trying drug.
It is so much sneakier than that.
It starts real subtle. Hey, we should do this.
No, I'm not doing that. And then, hey, do this and no,

(25:58):
I'm not doing that. And before you know it, you're
in a state where you're not going to call someone like
you're not going to be stopped. It's like a flip switches.
Is that what it was like for youit?
Was I call those subways. So today, you know I'm going to
be celebrating 13 years of sobriety next.
Month and. I call them subways because I
still get them to this day. And what I mean by subways is

(26:20):
they're like this train comes byand it's just a terrible idea.
Yeah, let's go call this escort.Let's go do that.
Whatever it is, these bad ideas,right?
And I still get them and the train stops and I'm at the edge.
Do I hop in that train? Nope.
Thanks for stopping by. And it goes by then the
inconvenient train of recovery comes by like you gotta go chair
this meeting at Walnut Creek this Saturday, which I do,

(26:40):
right? Yeah, I don't wanna do it, but
I'm gonna be there at Walnut Creek this Saturday, right?
And so I get these subways all the time with these really bad
ideas and these other ideas withcontrary action, you know, and
that contrary meeting. It does not sound like a good
idea to go to Walnut Creek and go speak in a couple hundred, a
couple, 100 people on Saturday. It just doesn't sound,
especially when this. Train has a lot more fun on it.

(27:01):
Yeah, there's. Some really cool stuff happening
over there. But I know where that train ends
up and his jails. Institutions are death for a guy
like me. You know, maybe there's some
other people that are different.It's totally fine.
But for me, I know where those trains go and it's not good, no.
It's not good. So what was that relapse?
Yes. Like and like how long were you
out? What happened?
It was. A short 5 month period.

(27:22):
You can do some damage in five months.
Yeah, that's a long yeah. It was, it was horrific, you
know, because for me, addictionslike we talked about earlier
too, it's cutting bath and powerful, you know, And this
time was different because, you know, previously it's like I
would have gotten locked up or became homeless or lost a bunch
of really cool stuff. None of that stuff happened this

(27:43):
time. What ended up happening is this
disease went in for the kill. I was found lifeless, blue, full
blown cardiac arrest dead on my couch in Roseville at the time.
Yeah, opiates, 3 or 4 days partying with the pretty her and
just enjoying and next thing youknow, I'm not even breathing.

(28:04):
I get rushed to the hospital by her and my neighbor because they
don't even I was living like a couple minutes away from
Roosevelt Center. So it was almost like easier
just to throw me in and drive meright to the emergency room.
I get there, I don't even know I'm there and I get woken up to
this freezing cold feeling. And I guess that's what Narcan
does to you. Narcan reverses the, you know,
the, the opiate effects and it takes you from an instant,

(28:27):
however high you are to extremely detox.
Yeah, we talked about that earlier, the goosebumps, the hot
in the cold and all that. And so I'm waking up in the
hospital. I have charcoal on my face
because I guess they had charcoaled me because they
didn't know if I was poisoned orwhat.
And I'm waking up freezing cold.I look over to my right side and
there's this doctor guy I'll never forget.
He's like 60 years old. Never seen this guy in my life.

(28:48):
I'm baffled that I'm even in thehospital.
I look at this guy and he said the most simplest thing to me.
He said, young man, if your friends would have got you here
within about two more minutes, you wouldn't be with us anymore
on earth. And I just like started tearing
up just water work city in frontof some guy.
I don't even know. The girl that dropped me off my
friend there. I don't know, they left or maybe

(29:08):
we were out in the other room and I'm just having this aha
moment. And I just kept hearing this
stupid cliche that you hear in the rooms of recovery jails.
Institutions were death. It's.
True dude and. That's really, you know, and
being inches away from death that day, I just made a firm
decision. I'm like, I'm going all in and
no matter what happens to me in life, I'm still going to stay

(29:31):
all in. And that's all I've really done
That that was April 24th is the day I died.
The very next day is my sobriety.
April 25th of 2012 I walked out of Roseville Sutter.
Literally all in from that day to right now.
Almost what? Was the all in like how was it
different this time? Well, saying yes, saying.
Yes is one thing, but honestly is just to continuously give

(29:56):
this thing away and to be able to help other people just like
me, you know, and that's what I started to really relax on, you
know 'cause it's not convenient to do that when you got a guy
who's maybe doesn't smell so good or yeah doesn't look so
good yeah he's just asking you for this or that and it's.
Not easy, dude. It's not.
You're jumping into the trencheslike where you were at your
lowest point. Now you're out of that.

(30:17):
You're stepping back down in there.
And that, yeah, it doesn't smellgood.
It doesn't feel good. It's an emotional toll, right?
So yeah, full respect man. And I, and that's really where
it all started because like I'd already had that, you know,
period of sobriety and I kind ofunderstood where things really
fell apart. And then from there on out, it's
like this is, this is for me, I got to do this thing 100% with

(30:39):
everything I got because my lifedepends on if, if there is no
recovery in my life, there's I don't have a life because it's
going to be one of those three things, you know?
And I pretty much hit all three of them, you know?
I was 15 years. I was in there.
I didn't have the longest, was almost 10 or something.
For a long time after leaving and smoking weed, I would call

(30:59):
myself California. So I stopped that shit 'cause I
remember what sobriety looks like.
That is no joke. Full respect.
No right to call myself to have sober anywhere in the word.
But I forgot what I was going tosay about that.
Yeah. Yeah.
No, I totally lost it. You're good.
I mean, for me, the biggest thing is like, I think of my

(31:21):
life today and like when I walked out of that hospital and
all my friends, I used to party with all my friends that I used
to think we're cool. Guess where they are?
Yeah, Jails, prisons or they're dead.
That's I've been to so many funerals.
I've been to so many jail. There's so much of that.
And I don't know, dude, it's. Hard man.
People told like when I came in,I was real young, 2122 the first

(31:43):
time and people are like, if youstick around here, you're going
to know a lot of people that died.
And I'm like, OK, I don't know and you know, whatever, but
dude, you do 1015 years. I know like 60 or 70 people
personally, hugging them, shaking their hand, coffee with
them, dead, most of them young, unexpected deaths.
And I know military veterans whodid tours in Afghanistan that

(32:06):
didn't know that many people that died.
It's literally life and death, that stuff.
You truly. Is, yeah.
And that's what motivates me, too.
It's just like I've been to so many funerals and yeah, I mean,
it's you know, you go pay your respects.
But then I just look, it's like I'm one bad, just one subway
ride away is me just like that. You know, I just value and I
hold it in the most highest regard because it's like, yeah,

(32:27):
it's a trip because I I just know where, where, where that
leads, you know, and it's not good versus doing the contrary
action, doing the action that I don't want to do, like going to
this meeting across town or helping this guy or being of
service. It sounds bad, but it leads to
such such a different life, you know, And it's just that's.
Cool. I'm just blown away still by
this day. Yeah, what does your life look

(32:47):
like today? It's been really good.
You know, there's always been some moments there, first of
all. So we, we were in, you know, we
used to hit meetings, we'd be inthe same rooms and stuff.
And I what I remember about you is 1520 sponsors, but like, your
entire existence was dedicated to stopping anything at any
time, reaching your hand out, driving any.

(33:08):
Like that was your reputation. Like, if somebody is really
needing a reliable sponsor, it'sgoing to be Tony.
But guess what? Yeah, if you're not willing,
you're going to get kicked the hell to the curve real quick
because this is life and death. And there's 10 people behind you
that are willing. Is that still what your life
looks like it is? But it's scaled down a little
bit. I mean, still, am I rigid like
that? Yes.

(33:28):
And it's not that I'm even rigid.
I just have really adopted the same sponsorship.
My lineage, how they sponsored me, how my sponsor sponsored me
is just the same way I do it. And it's like for the way I look
at it is you got to be sponsorable if you want me to
sponsor you, just like you got to be employable, right?
If you want a job, don't show upto the job site without the
hammer in the tool bag, right? I mean, it's the same concept

(33:51):
and. That hammer in the tool bag is
gonna be willingness hey. It's actually three things.
HOW How honesty, open minding, willingness.
If you don't have those three things, you're not willing to do
what I do, then you can't expectto get what I have.
You know? I mean, it's that simple.
If you want what I have and you're coming up to me, I'm.
I'm I'm all here for you. Yeah, I'll make the time.
But I need to see effort and some skin in the game from your

(34:13):
side as well, if that makes sense it.
Does and you know, hard part is a lot of people think they have
that how there's one of our buddies in there would call it
the Wana Wana tribe. They would want you know what
I'm talking about. They would want.
To want to be sober, but they actually didn't want to.
That's that was heartbreaking tosee people just over and over

(34:34):
stumbling and just looking at them like you actually don't
want this. You want someone to do it for
you, to grab you by the collar. It doesn't work like that.
It's a. Self self-paced, self
accountable program with guides to help you do the work.
But you are doing the work, and as intense as addiction is, the
work is going to be that intense. 100% And the thing too

(34:55):
is like, if you want something different, you gotta do
something different. Like for me, I was just so far
gone that when my sponsor told me to do something, I just did
it. There was no like Hammond and
Han and Maybes and kind of no, Ijust did it.
Yeah. And I'm not any better than any,
but I'm just another guy shoulder to shoulder with
everybody else. But there's there is just this,
this feeling of like this is life or death and it still is

(35:16):
even with 12 plus years, you know, and that's how I sponsor.
And it's not I don't want to, I don't want to water that down
for anybody. I just don't, I don't want to
let you cut corners, not for notbecause I need some, you know,
feeling of like, Oh, you did it my way.
This is just what this book saysprecisely how we recovered.
So I want to give it to you precisely, you know, And I'm so

(35:36):
grateful for that rigid sponsorship because if it wasn't
for that, I wouldn't be here. I'd probably be in federal
prison doing double digits, or I'd probably be buried.
Probably some of my friends, probably, you know, just like
that, aren't you? Glad we got out of that opiate
stuff before the fentanyl showedup, right?
We'd for sure be dead. I'd be gone. 100%.
It was gone. It's cheaper, more potent,
readily available, for sure. Dad, it's 100% and.

(35:59):
It's in everything these days, too.
People were snorting coke, thinking it's coke and they're
dying. And autopsy says fentanyl.
Yeah, I'd never done opiates in his life, you know, and you see
that. A lot.
See, I didn't know that. I thought because they talk
about fentanyl laced, you know, everything's fentanyl laced.
That's not the case. It actually is fentanyl.
It's it's fentanyl pretending tobe something else.
And so people have no idea and they're just croaking, dude.

(36:20):
It's terrible. So do you have a relationship
with a higher power now? Absolutely.
I think what recovery and these 12 step programs have done for
me is, is to be able to build that relationship and to access
that higher power growing up, like, yeah, I went to church
with my my parents, but I didn'tunderstand like, why are they
singing? Why are they reading these

(36:41):
passages? And how come this, you know,
higher power, this God thing isn't working for this guy right
here. I couldn't, I didn't know how to
build that relationship or have that access.
But through 12 step work, through good sponsorship and
through just really doing the deal, it's been able to form
that relationship. It's almost like a clogged pipe.
It's like, here's the pipe and there's all this stuff in here

(37:03):
and Tony's on one side and the higher powers on the other side.
But the higher power can't even help me because there's so much
wreckage of my past and so much stuff that's clogged.
And with the 12 steps have done for this guy is it's cleared
away all that wreckage that passed and built that
relationship to now this power disclose.
That's a good analogy because. That's really what it is.
It's a house cleaning, you know,steps.
I don't want to get too much in the weeds a bit, but the basics

(37:25):
is I mean for me is steps 4 through 9 is the is the
cleansing part is that is to getting that stuff out of it.
Program and then step 10 is 4 through 9 over and over.
Step 11 and 12 is keeping the connection.
Is it God for you it? Is God, Yeah, 100% without a
shadow of doubt. That's sick, dude.
And the coolest thing is to like, you know, in the
beginning, it's like I believed in God, I'm sorry, access God,

(37:47):
But then over time it's just he's came through in so many
different ways, not only for me,but for my parents and hundreds
of thousands of people around methat you just can't even deny it
anymore or just miraculous things that have happened.
It's like, I don't know, and I and I love to be able to see
that in somebody else. There's people I've sponsored
that are like anti and that's totally fine.
That's. Cool man, do the work you.

(38:08):
Know and all of a sudden to see them have a relationship with a
higher power of God or whatever that may be just can't be them
right yeah 'cause if it was you you would have stopped on your
own so you might need something you know yeah and to watch that
happen to other people and. It also can't be your sponsor,
and a lot of people think it canbe the the.
I guess it technically can be a A, but it sure can't be your
sponsor. Yeah, they're just another dude

(38:29):
trying to do it too. And a lot of times too, if I
have somebody that's, you know, kind of close minded to not
close minded, but they're just, you know, very rigid on how they
think about it. We use the word group of drunks,
you know, God, you know, just believe in the group.
I mean, you see all these meetings and these places you go
to and not everybody can be lying about what's happened in
their life and how good it's gotten from where they were when
they came in, right? And so that's that's and not.

(38:51):
Everybody can be faking that helpiness.
That's the thing, that peace there.
You, there's just no way, you know, that's the beautiful thing
about a A or a A or 12 step or NA or whatever it may be.
It's very clear who does the work and who doesn't do the
work. Let me just classify it as that
or frame it in as that, you know, and it's OK if you don't
do the work, but then there's other people that have clearly

(39:12):
done the work and that's why they're living in a different
light in a different manner, youknow, and it's a beautiful
thing. It is really something else.
Yeah dude, that's cool. One thing I always felt bad for
with new guys. So as many, well, I shouldn't
say as many, but there are some not good people in there just
like anywhere else, anywhere else.

(39:33):
Well, the problem. Is they can all quote the same
lines from the 1st 100 pages. They can memorize the parts that
can match anything you bring up and oh, that's from this book.
How do you think new people can differentiate people that are
doing it versus people that are acting like they're doing it but
might not be in your best interest?
I always felt bad for that because guys would come in and

(39:54):
I'd see them link up in certain groups.
I'm like, that's a sick, they'renot doing it.
And but you can't know that whenyou're new.
I don't think you're going to know that at all when you're
new, just like what you're talking about.
But as you start to go down thatpath with maybe it's somebody
that's not really all in or appears to be all in but they're
not, you'll get redirected. You'll know that something's off

(40:15):
it. It will just come.
It's almost like when there's smoke, there's fire, you know?
And you'll eventually see it, you know, because there'll be
stuff that just doesn't jive with like the basic principles
behind each step. There's, there's areas that are
going to be kind of like, I don't know, I don't, you know,
like you'll, you'll definitely have signs of it.
Yeah. Very clear signs.
Intuition. Yeah.

(40:36):
And you might even have the, thegiant neon sign that will show
you maybe one day and you'll just know, you know, and I've,
I've actually had the pleasure of sponsoring a lot of those
people that said, hey, I worked with so.
And so this is what happened. And I just got this feeling and
you know, will you, will you help me?
And, and it just kind of takes care of itself.
But it's very hard to to, to really decipher that or, or see
when you're new and you're just trying to latch onto somebody

(40:58):
who's, who's appears to be like they're desperate.
Yeah. Yeah, but.
It's out there. I firmly believe too.
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
That's the truth. That's really what it is man,
because I'll never forget the the second time when I got out
of the hospital, I don't even know if I really want to get
sober. I, I knew I was going to die if
I stayed out there, but I would just have this feeling of like,
I don't want to go do all this stuff again, right?

(41:19):
I have this feeling. So I go to this meeting, right?
And I don't even want to be there, but I know I got to be
there. If that sounds weird and I'm
sitting by the door getting ready to leave, there's like
3545 people in there, right? And literally as I'm by the
door, there's like 3 minutes to close the meeting.
Like almost over. There's this big, brawny
construction worker secretary guy leading the meeting.
I would have never talked to this guy.

(41:41):
I would have never had Starbuckswith this guy.
I would have never cracked a bigbook with this guy.
I would have nothing in common with this guy.
And when there's one minute left, he points to me and calls
on me in front of a group of, you know, like I said, 45
strangers. Did he?
Know that you were a retread hadno.
Clue parents seen each other in our lives and I just got honest.

(42:01):
Honest the open minded willingness right?
I got honest with entire group of strangers.
I just spoke up and said the truth.
I just got out of the hospital. I had a near death experience.
If I don't get help after this meeting, probably end up dying
or it's not going to be good, I'll probably go drink again or
go use again. And everybody smiled, clapped,
held hands, prayed like they do when they close out a meeting.
And that's when the magic happened right there.

(42:22):
That man that was sitting behindthat desk, he did something very
special for me. What he did is he put the common
welfare of a dying newcomer #1 in his life.
That guy had five kids, a busy career flying all over the
United States. And the second that mean he
clapped out, I started to turn to go to that door.
And that guy was like Flash Gordon.
He was standing next to me within seconds, right seconds.

(42:45):
And he was armed with his big book and the facts of his own
story and start 12 stepping me before I could even walk out
that door 'cause you can see howbroken I was, you know?
And that was the coolest moment because now that I look back, oh
man, Like, that was a pivotal moment.
I end up staying the next three hours in a meeting that I wasn't
even planning on going to or hanging out in.
And we started, he started spoonfeeding me the program right

(43:07):
then and there in the back, dude.
That gave me goosebumps, man. That's there is it's one of the
most beautiful things I've ever seen in life is when somebody
like really needs help. There's people that will do
anything they can to help the person and there's no, you got
to understand when you're cominginto a a, there's nothing left.
Nobody's going to talk to you. If you're at the point where

(43:28):
you're willing to go to a a or not willing, right, right.
Everybody's done with you and all of a sudden you've got a
place to be. People will feed you, give you
coffee and they will sit down and listen to your problems and
give you the solutions mapped inthat first 100 pages on how to
get out. And it's it's self work, it's
self-paced, but there's no otherplace like that there's no place

(43:49):
where you can take someone that doesn't smell good has booze on
the bread right green face like that lost all sense of hygiene,
self respect and just sit with them and share a meal you.
Nailed it. There's just no other place.
I mean, and that's just one sideof it.
There's also no other place where you see the amount of
miracles that come from nothing or below nothing to just

(44:09):
something extraordinary. Yeah.
And you can't. Hollywood could not have written
my story. Like there's just no possible
way that things have been transpired from and where I was
to what it is today. There's, there's just no way.
And I couldn't even depict it orguessed it, there's and I'm just
one person. I've so many, I have so many
friends that I can't even believe what capacity or how
their life looks now from when Imet them when we first trudged

(44:29):
the road and we got sober together 12 1/2 years ago.
And that's why I get so excited about this stuff because when I
see new people, I'm more, I'm more pumped up and excited
because the opportunity that they have right here, if they
just go all in and they can't understand because it, it
doesn't seem like it like why isthis guy so fired up on it?
Because I know where this can take you, you know, and it's

(44:50):
going to be something else. It's going to be a lot of work,
but it's going to be the most rewarding years of your life,
dude. You can't, you literally can't
imagine how good life gets if you do that program as hard as
you can and just dedicate yourself to it.
If you if you do that in two, you can't picture how good
things get and then the fulfillment of helping other

(45:10):
people that's hard to replace after after leaving it's it's
kind of happens here a little bit, but does I miss parts of
that program that's. Why for so many years I used to
wonder like, why did I go from like having this really good
life as young young guy, you know, and, and having a good
career and this and that, all this cool stuff going on to

(45:30):
being homeless, to being like malnourished, 60 lbs less than I
am now. Like not eating, not physically
taking care of myself, not showering, not shaving, living
out of a backpack, going throughall these jails in these nasty
places. Like it didn't make sense to me.
I'm like, why did this happen tome?
Like why? And then now it makes sense
because the darkness of anybody's story, like all that

(45:51):
stuff and God's hands, the most painful, shameful things about
any one of us can be like the greatest asset to helping
somebody else that's going to walk through that door, who's
going to need it, You know, because you could have degrees
and and all this other stuff, but one alcoholic, one addict
working with another thing. Like there's the language of the
heart, you know, like you cannot.

(46:11):
Have you can't get that? And it makes sense.
Like I didn't understand why that was going through me.
But now I have this purpose. And that's why I've taken this
thing so serious and I've been so fired up on helping other
people. You know what?
I owe this debt. I got to.
It's like, that's why you alwaysheard me sponsor so many guys
cuz I'm just trying to pay it back.
I owe big, you know? And The thing is when when you

(46:32):
love something like like 12 stepprogram and like you really care
about it, you will hold it to a high caliber and you'll do
anything to pay that back, you know?
And yeah. It's.
Just something else cuz if you would have told me my life would
look like this and this is how it feel today, I'd have been
like you're on crack. Yeah, you probably need 12 step
program. Not that none of that stuff is
happening to this. This guy right here.
Maybe you, but not to me. And it's just incredible, just

(46:54):
the possibilities in the in the the perception change and the
shift that takes place by just doing this dude's work.
It's a complete consciousness transformation.
Like you go from a a completely self-centered person just trying
to survive, get more drugs to like thinking of others and
having connection with God. It's so crazy.
And then how about like the first step, man?

(47:15):
Like that stuff that when you live a life like that, you've
got skeletons that you're never going to tell anybody because
nobody's ever done it. And you finally, you're
desperate enough, you share it. And all of a sudden the guy
you're sharing it to most of thetime is like, oh, me too.
It's the most liberating thing ever.
And I think that translates to people outside of the program

(47:37):
too. I think we've all got things
that we think nobody can relate to, nobody's done.
It was told to me once if there's a name for it, somebody
else has done it. 100% yeah, that's exactly what happened to
me. It's like when I did that 4th
and 5th step, I sat in the park with that big broader
construction worker, secretary guy, and you know, like I poured
my heart out and I didn't hold anything back because I knew if

(47:59):
I held something back, I'd probably drink again or go get
loaded, you know? And I remember he asked me the
most critical question at the very end of the entire thing.
We got done with this 3 1/2 hourdeal.
And he's like, no, that was all cool stuff and all, but what's
not on the paper? And I just like, you know, and
two more things came out and I'mso grateful he asked that, you
know, 'cause I never wanted to write those things down, 'cause
they were dark. And like you said, it was not

(48:23):
only liberating, but it was likea complete just game changer,
you know, 'cause I remember justsitting back after we were done
and doing like the, the post fist step instructions that are
in the book that my book says exactly.
And I just had this feeling of like true hope, like it's, it's
going to be OK from here. Like just stay on this path.

(48:44):
It just this feeling of just when, no matter what, stay on
this path. And it's been that way ever
since, man. And then to take that and do it
with hundreds of other people and watch them have that same
experience. No amount of money.
Yeah, I get it. It's right here.
Do you? Practice step 11.
I do prayer meditation. Yeah.

(49:05):
I recently read this book. I can't even think of the name
right now, but it's, it's by Russell Simmons and can't think
of the name. It's on my iPhone.
And it talks all about, you know, process He does.
TM right? Russell Simmons the the music
guy, yes. Yeah, Def Jam, Yeah, Yeah.
But this is like his basic stuffabout how to do how to do
meditation, you know, because the book elaborates on some

(49:26):
about the, you know, the 24 hours ahead and the the review
at night and talks about it, butdoesn't go into deep details
that a guy like me needs, you know, So my sponsors like, hey,
read this book, do this, do that.
And so I watch some YouTube videos and stuff.
And it's a critical part of the program because with prayer,
too, it's like, if I don't do itfirst thing in the morning, once

(49:46):
again, this, this knuckleheads running the show, that's not
good because we're going to get in some major collisions, you
know, whether that be at work orhome life or baby mom alive, I
don't know, you know, it's just not good.
So I definitely got to turn overthose turn over that will, you
know, to to him to my higher power, to God.
And things go a lot smoother. And even when they don't have a
have a way to be able to clean it up and and make it better,

(50:08):
you know, and I love that. Do you?
Ever pray, like ask for guidanceor help or whatever and then get
an answer? What does that look like for you
when he talks back? I was praying the other day to
put some people I, I don't remember exactly.
I said it. I was like praying, Hey, God,

(50:28):
whoever you know, if anybody really needs, I said, put the
people in my life that you want me to help.
And this other morning I woke upright and that's.
Such a beautiful prayer. Dude, this.
Is a trip. I woke up and I don't I don't
wake up at 6:30 in the morning on Saturdays.
I just don't. I sleep in.
I sleep in, right? I have a kid, but I sleep in.
I get this weird feeling at like650.

(50:50):
I just I'm restless in the morning like I can't go back to
bed. I'm like what's going on?
Seven O 5, this 925 area code number for the bear is calling
me and I'm like, what's going on?
Why am I getting? I almost didn't pick it up.
I pick it up right and there's this guy in there line.
He goes, hey, this is Kenneth. Are you the guy that's a

(51:10):
muscular half Asian guy? Swear.
To God, are you the. Muscular half Asian guy who
spoke in Danville meeting on a Friday night.
He basically knew, you know, on Danville Friday night like a
year ago. And I said, yeah, what's going
on? He's like everything you shared
in that meeting in your story ishappening to me right now.
And another reason why I remember you is I've done tons

(51:31):
of meetings. You're the only person that's
ever made me cry in a meeting. And I need help right now.
So I said that prayer the day before and so crazy.
I mean, how do you write that? Like Danville a year ago And
this guy, what? And he was half Asian too.
Wow. So.
I'm working with him right now. Oh, I was gonna ask.
Oh wow, not on. Sponsorship, but yeah, we got to

(51:52):
get him to a detox first and do some other stuff prior to like
getting the head cleared, if that makes sense.
Oh it does. Talks about that dude, it takes.
It takes 30 days to even understand like who you are,
where you are. I I tell people like 'cause
dude, unfortunately the stats are not good like most people
it's not good you know? And but the people that have

(52:14):
done the best generally do a 90 day rehab.
The 1st 30 are a spend dry like the detox.
They say they go to a halfway house and they hit a meeting
every day for like 2 years. If that sounds too extreme, like
you're just not done, 'cause like when you're done, that
sounds like an easy trade off. Exactly, you know?
That's not contrary action. Yeah, and it's heartbreaking

(52:35):
though, because like most peopledon't make it and they fucking
die. They don't It's not just like
their life gets, but they die. That's that's sad, dude.
It's hard to watch. And you're just like, what's it
going to take to be willing? How far does it have to go?
I don't know if some people are just hard headed or what, but
yeah, that's I'm glad to hear you're Yeah, he did a little

(52:55):
detox help first the. Little the saddest thing too is
many will come. We open the doors like this to
anybody. Doesn't matter what race you
are, doesn't matter what your background is.
We open the doors to anybody. Any 12 step program is
all-encompassing. Come on in.
But the sad part is many won't do the work and only very few
will stay. And that's just the reality of
it. And it's not because the 12 step
program doesn't work, it's just that not many people are wanting

(53:17):
to go all in. You know, that's why it says
stuff like rarely have we seen aperson fail is thoroughly
followed our program. The second line is those who do
not recover or people who cannotor will not completely give
themselves a simple program. That's all I've really done is
is that second line of how it works?
That's when I remember about youdoing it.
And I I've heard at some point that Bill Wilson, who wrote the

(53:39):
book want it would have changed rarely to never, because never
have we seen someone who's you. Did that's true?
Very true. Sick dude.
But what are you most excited about now going forward?
I'm in a weird place, too, with my daughter.
It's like she just turned 11 a couple days ago.
Oh, wow. And it's so fun, right, That
we're doing all kinds of cool stuff, but it's like the makeup,

(54:01):
the training walk. Yeah, yeah.
It's it's it's just, it's not the.
Same thing with mine, dude. It's, it's so and the energy
shifts and you're like, I don't know how to do this, you know,
so I'm. Just super excited, still be
with her with everything. So I have 5050 custody, but it's
like it's in a kind of an awkward state, but we're still
doing all this fun stuff. She's killing in school.
We just did 13 weeks of ice skating right here in Roseville.

(54:23):
She loved it. And now she wants to go back to
soccer, indoor soccer, 'cause they were, she did it a couple
years ago. It was undefeated.
But just to be there and to have, you know, this little 11
year old who just has never seenme drunk, who's never seen me
loaded, who's never seen me in Sac County Orange, she doesn't
even know that that person exists.
That's awesome. So everything I just described
to you, my daughter is never I've been sober longer than

(54:45):
she's been alive, you know, and to to be able to just be their
present in those moments and to be able to share just this
incredible life with her, you know, with took on her first
cruise and Disneyland's and all this fun stuff.
It's just I look forward to thatnext weekend.
We're actually going to Six Flags with a bunch of her
friends for her birthday becausewe have shared custody.
So it's kind of like a split deal, you know.
So would you do a birthday in separate like?

(55:07):
How cool is that? Like your dad's successfully
strong mentally, strong physically, and he's always the
same dude. He doesn't drink.
She's she's never going to see loaded.
She's never going to see draw. She's going to know the rest of
her life. Like I can call that dude it's
the same motherfucker every timeand he's going to be right
there. But I I that's a beautiful
thing. She.
Knows that I'm so deeply involved in recovery too,

(55:27):
because she sees people come by the house and dad gets this blue
book open and and reads and stuff and does stuff with these
guys that don't look too happy, you know, or they don't look so
good, right? And one day we're at Panda
Express and she opened up this watching Cookie and it said
something, the effect of like the true joy of life is being
able to help others or somethinglike that, something like about

(55:48):
helping others. And she's like, yeah, this is
the wrong fortune. This is your fortune.
You're the one that helps the people with the book.
It's time for her to know that, you know, just see me speak at
these meetings and all this stuff.
And it's just something else, man.
Because I never even, I got sober.
I didn't even want kids, didn't even want kids because all I had
to rely on was the past me who couldn't handle anything, you
know who, who wasn't responsibleenough to have kids.

(56:11):
But to be in that capacity and to be able to raise her 5050
custody and just have a really cool life, man, it's been a
treat. And that's just one of those
things that just, oh man, just just fires me up, man.
I just can't wait, you know, to spend more time with her.
Dude, you have anything to say to the people that want to be
done, but they're not done. They're still using like any

(56:32):
people that are thinking about a, a or just sober, like, you
know what I'm saying? That that guy.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I've never
seen anybody's life get worse ina 12 step program, but good
hundreds of thousands of lives either die or go to jail by
continuing to do that stuff. So if you're.
Even pondering maybe should I quit or how do I go to a

(56:54):
meeting? Raise your hand, tell him you're
one day, five days, whatever it is and get in.
Or 0 days. Just get in there.
Or just do this. Go to one of those meetings, go
all in for a year. If it don't work, I'll buy you
your first drink. You know, like I don't.
It's just, I've never seen anybody's life get messed up.
I've seen lives go from here andjust go that way.

(57:15):
Has there been challenges and roadblocks and challenges along
the way? But it's always gone this way,
you know? And I would just give it a shot.
I would honestly, sincerely try if if you're even pondering or
just on the fence about it, you know, because what's the worst
that could happen? Drinking and drugging will
always be there and for some weird reason, if you want to tap
out, that's a pretty big sign that's it's not it's not it's

(57:36):
not working out anymore. I.
Used to tell people like if you're wondering if you have a
problem, you have a fucking problem, right?
No, people that don't, they don't ever think that, you know,
they might think, oh, I should quit for caloric reasons and
stuff. But nobody's like, I wonder if,
I wonder if I'm an alcohol, right?
Normal people aren't thinking that way, yeah.
Not at all, you know, So if you're pondered, give it a shot.

(57:56):
It's the worst that could happen, you know, I don't know,
It's, it's weird too, because a lot of people come in and they
have like these preconceived thoughts of what it's going to
be like. Set that aside, go there with
just an open mind and just checkit out.
You never know. I can sponsor all the time.
It's like, man, I should have been doing this 10 years ago.
Everything you guys talk about, I've been thinking those same
things. It's the language of the heart,

(58:17):
you know, and if you're an alcohol crate addict, I mean,
there is a way out and we can help, you know, and that's the
beautiful part about it. Because in the midst of it, I
never thought there were. I didn't even know these things
existed and had the success ratethat they really have if you
really for people. That do it.
Exactly, exactly. That's the caveat to it.
But I just didn't know because all I had was the people around

(58:37):
me that eyes were getting worse and going to prison and doing
all that stuff, you know? And yeah.
That's that. Yeah, something else, man.
Anything else you want to share or talk about?
I'll talk about something that Ifeel on my heart just because
it's, it's something that a lot of people could maybe take
something from. When you get sober doesn't mean
life's going to be easy and, andjust smooth sailing, right?

(59:01):
And I'll talk about probably my hardest time in sobriety, the
hardest time I've ever had a face.
It's about 7 years ago, eight years ago most.
It was my fifth year sobriety and I got a phone call and it
was my parents neighbor. And she's like, hey, you need to
get to your parents house right now.

(59:22):
Something's going on and there'sa bunch of cop cars there.
And I'm thinking, wait a minute,parents, There's like the most
square bare people. Why would there be cop cars,
especially if I'm not there? Yeah, I mean, this is reality.
Like there's cop cars there whenI lived there.
I've been at the house for a long time.
Come to find out, my father had died in his sleep at age 63.
Perfectly healthy normie. He didn't party, he didn't

(59:44):
drink, he didn't smoke. He didn't do any of that so.
Young dude he. Just retired.
He barely just paid off the house, worked his butt off, you
know, just making at that time. He's just working for DMV at the
time, you know, and when I got that heart wrenching, just
tragic, just just earth shattering news to me when I got
that news. I leaned on the program that I'm

(01:00:08):
talking about harder than I everleaned.
I went to more meetings with tears in my eyes, not wanting to
go to meetings. I sponsored probably three more
guys that I didn't have time foror won't even talk to.
And I even picked up a third service commitment, you know,
bonafide service commitment in the program, a third one.
And because of that diligent effort, it kept me in good
stead. And I didn't have to get loaded

(01:00:28):
or reset my sobriety date or go back out, you know, and.
You might help with the pain tooit.
Did because what I found out wasthere's a lot of wisdom from
other people that have experienced death through
sobriety, you know, and I was able to lean on a lot of people
and hear other ways that they got through it, you know, and it
was really comforting, you know,and I go to the funeral like 2

(01:00:50):
weeks later and my mom was thereand she's like, she, she said
something really profound to me.She goes, Tony, your dad died
really, really happy. And wow, I'm like, why do you
say that? She goes in the, the last five
years you've been doing those AAmeetings, there's been nothing
stolen or missing from our housebecause I used to steal from my
parents or anybody, right? She goes in the last five years

(01:01:10):
since you've been doing the AA meetings, Yeah, right.
She's like, there's been, there's been no phone call from
any jail, hospital or institution.
She goes, here's the best part, and over five years since you've
been sober doing the AA meetings, your father and I have
been able to sleep sound every single night.
And I have to check the Channel 3 News of the Internet to see if
you're dead or going to prison for the rest of your life.

(01:01:33):
Six months after my dad died, I'm traveling everywhere, living
life, just just helping a lot ofpeople, just trenched in a A and
12 step program and just just really just experiencing a lot
of cool stuff. I get back to to California from
traveling and I go see my mom and her mailbox has got all this
mail poking out of it. So I grabbed this stack of mail.

(01:01:55):
I walk into her house, I give her a greeting and I look down
and there's this on the top of the stack of the mail.
There's this letter and it's gotmy dad's squiggly handwriting
and I recognize it and it's postmarked to my mom's house on
this day. And I'm thinking there's no
freaking way he's been dead for over 7-8 months.
There's no way this could be postmarked today with his
handwriting. Like, there's just no way.

(01:02:17):
So I opened up this letter, right?
And it was a gratitude list. One year before he died, he
attended a church in Ranch Cordova.
And the pastor of that church asked him to write down three
things that his God did for him that he was eternally grateful
for. And on the second line down,
this is what it said. It said, thank you, God, for
helping my son recover from his drug and alcohol addiction.

(01:02:39):
Your timing is impeccable. And I received that seven months
after he passed away. I literally fell to my knees
with just just tears of joy. And it was almost like a
reminder. It's like a God shot.
It was like God and my dad were reminding me that he got to see
5 miraculous years of a sudden change his life through a 12
step program. But more importantly, my parents

(01:02:59):
prayers have been answered. I don't know about anybody
listening but my parents prayed for 15/16/17 years to stop the
drinking, the taking, the destruction, all that stuff that
comes with addiction. And all because I bottomed out
and had my is willing to come toa 12 step program and just start
to do the work and be all in. Not only did it change my life,

(01:03:20):
but it changed their life and somany people around.
You know what's crazy too? My mom, she don't call the
normie sister when she has problems today.
She calls the drug addict alcoholic son that's burned her
that's put her through hell and back to come help her when she
has an issue. How's that feel, brother?
Exhilarating. Indescribing.

(01:03:41):
It's something else. I, I, I just, I don't even know,
like, how does that even take place?
You know, but that's I, I take 0credit for it.
All I've done is just follow this precise instructions that
are in this book and basically copy everything my sponsor
showed me. And then I pass that on to a lot
of other guys for funding for free, you know, and then just do

(01:04:01):
a lot of the contradiction. And by doing that, I seem like
the luckiest guy on earth. Things happen to me that I'm
just like, what the heck, Like how, dude, you know, and.
You're as long as I've known you, man, you're a light dude.
Like the energy coming off you and the friendliness and then
the strength and that you just know.
Like if I'm with this guy, I cancall him.

(01:04:23):
Yeah. You just know it.
And people. Say that about me too, 'cause
like whenever I call you, you'realways there, you know, and if
you don't pick up, you call within seconds back, you know,
And that's just because I, I love, like I said before, this
program and I owe so big man. I just, I tried it everyday to
give it everything. I got to give it back, you know,
with, with no expectations of anything.
That's the funniest thing. Like I, I don't care.

(01:04:46):
I don't need anything. Like everything is taken care of
and all it is, is just to give that back and pay that forward.
And people always thank me. They're like, what can I do to
help you and pay you back? You've done so much for me.
And I always tell them you don'tgot to give me anything.
If you want to thank me, you help somebody else.
You do exactly what I did for you and help somebody else.
Pay it forward. I want 0.

(01:05:06):
I want this thing to continue because a lot of us have kids.
A lot of us have other people that might need this thing
later. And I want to be, I want it to
be there for them down the road.Where would I be if if this
program didn't exist, if there wasn't a solution or a way out?
I know where I'd be and it wouldbe good, you know?
And I just love the, I love the fact that anybody can do it.
There's nobody special, there's nobody unique.

(01:05:27):
We're just all trudging this road, highs and lows.
My life isn't like this anymore like it used to be.
It's just kind of gone like this.
Yeah. You know, just yeah.
Cruising as life does. Yeah, yeah.
And. I'm equipped with tools now to
be able to not only get through some of these challenging times
and help others and still just really live the best life ever.

(01:05:48):
You know, it's like I, I'm just astonished.
It's it's I, it's still not evenlike real to me sometimes.
Like I think it's a dream, you know, like I just, it's mind
blowing what really can happen. And if you would have told me
all this years ago, I wouldn't have believed you.
I wouldn't have believed it. I just wouldn't have.
But man, it's, it's an incredible deal.
That's sick dude. Just to.

(01:06:08):
Be able to live in and experience it and do all these
cool things, man, what a real treat, you know?
Say the least and I've. Lived both sides of the tracks,
you know, all of us have. Yeah, I know what it is to be
homeless. I know it is not to have clean
clothes and have a backpack with, you know, people.
Don't look you in the ass. No, avoid.
You, I was, I was a shoe guy. I, I would look at my shoes
'cause I couldn't make eye contact with people, you know,

(01:06:30):
and that's The thing is to not have to live with all that shame
and the guilt anymore because ofthe 12 steps and to have that
stuff be removed, you know, justlike we talked about earlier
about that, that pipeline, you know, and yeah, just that, that,
that weight lifted off our shoulders.
I feel like I walked around witha ball and chain for so long and
all that stuff and I dragged it everywhere and people could just
feel it. Yeah.

(01:06:50):
And today I don't have to do that and I get to help other
people take that thing off too. And you're happy most days.
Yeah, 9 times. I've seen most days.
I've had some funny times. I've had some funny times, but I
have tools and I have a very loving God that is kind of just
always navigated, you know, and open one door or close that door
and open four more better doors or whatever that may look like.

(01:07:12):
And I just kind of go along for the ride and I'll laugh
sometimes, you know. Hey, you know, another thing
that I do a lot too that I'd encourage anybody to do if you
ever get a chance is to do it take a 12 step call.
I get. I get leveraged here and there
to to help. So. 12 step calls when you're
dealing with somebody that's like a live drunk, like they're

(01:07:32):
still kind of drinking, but maybe a family member contacts
you and wants them to sober up or get help 'cause they can see
it with their, you know, family member that they're not a good
place. And so one day it was like a
Tuesday afternoon. I'm busy doing all this work
stuff and this lady is like, hey, I got your number from so
and so. Is there any way you would help
my brother? He's a successful business owner

(01:07:53):
and I've been asking for years to stop drinking because it's
just continuously getting worse.And I just, I feel like
something bad is going to happenif he doesn't get help.
And I said sure I'll go by there.
And I go by this house and I getin the house and he's located
the master bedroom and it gets really, really strange.
I walk in the house and he's he's butt naked in a blanket,
shaking, and there's handles andhandles and leaders all over the

(01:08:16):
ground. Crap.
And I'm like, oh, all right, God, this is what we're doing on
Tuesday afternoon, right? You know, and I have a talk with
him and this is what we're doing.
Yeah, this is what we're doing. This is Tuesday afternoon, guys,
you know, unexpectedly just go help some people.
And I talked to him. And at the end of the
conversation, he's like, I just don't even care about treatment.
I don't care to live. I don't whatever.
He's just blowing me off. And that's 25, you know, just

(01:08:38):
wanted to talk. I just came over because your
sister wanted me to come by and talk to you.
I. Don't want anything from you?
No. I don't.
You made it very clear. That's the difference.
That's a the 12 step call. People understand you're going
into dens with needles. You're going Oh yeah.
And when people realize that youactually, you don't want
anything, you're here to spend time with them and show them
love and give them encouragement, you watch their

(01:09:00):
whole fucking world shatter of what they thought a A was of
what they thought humanity was. All they're receiving anywhere
else is negativity and and shameand anger and disgrace.
And then another human comes in,who's bright behind the eyes and
sober, and tells him, you can beall right if you follow me and
do what this book says 1. 100% that's.

(01:09:20):
Incredible. There isn't anything like that
on Earth. There's no.
Other people. That will maybe church, but not
that level right? The 12th?
Dude you're going literally in the trenches.
Frontline as nasty as it gets. Yep.
Long story short, he declines everything, doesn't want to
recover, whatever. And that's fine, you know, And I
gave him a hug and, and I said aprayer for him and I walked out,

(01:09:41):
you know, and the next morning, my phones blowing up at like
6:30 in the morning and he's like, I'll do anything to get
help. What do I need to do?
And the sister calls me and she's like, I just want to thank
you for coming by and I got to know something.
What did you possibly say to my brother to convince him?
She's like my whole family myself begging this guy for like
3 years to just stop and change and and be willing to do

(01:10:01):
something different. And I told her straight up I
said the magic is I never asked him to go do anything.
I never asked him to go. All I did was in a general way
shared like what I was like, what happened to me, what my
life is like today from getting in recovery.
And he made that decision on hisown.
He arrived there on his own, never asked him, no pressure,
nothing. She's like, all right.
So he goes to we get him into treatment and he's supposed to

(01:10:22):
call me on like the 35th or 36thday to just, I don't know, check
in and see how he's doing whatever.
And instead I get a call from her and she's like, Tony, I
really want to thank you for everything you did for my
brother. But the day he got out of
treatment, he drank himself to death in the same bedroom that
you helped him in right after treatment.
And she's like, I really just want to thank you.

(01:10:45):
But she's like, I just can't believe he's gone, you know, And
and that just goes to show once again, you know, like on one
side, I have these beautiful, you know, lives of sponsees and
friends that are trudging the road and people that are
recovery and even in myself thatare having these incredible
moments, being on fire for this program, living life to the

(01:11:06):
fullest, helping others. But on the other side, it shows
the deadly earnestness of this disease from somebody who wanted
it, who started to do it. But somewhere between 30th day
and 35th day. Yeah, that one last time.
Was it? Yeah, was.
It. That's that's a hey dude.
And it's like a, it's a remindertoo, cuz like nobody's

(01:11:26):
invincible. If you're an addict or an
alcoholic, nobody's got this special force field that just
lasts forever. Mine evaporates every night at
midnight. And I got to do something else
the next day to put it back on that armor.
You know, it's like I can't, thestep work I did step work I did
three days ago is not going to carry me through next week.
It's just not, you know, and that's just a, a reminder.

(01:11:46):
I'll share one last thing in closing with you.
That was a pretty interesting moment.
I was asked to speak at this meeting in Roseville and it's
located around all these bars. Probably place.
For right and I don't want to gothere and it's on my calendar.
I'm going there and I parked thecar and I start walking past
these bars, right? And it's starting to get dark.
And I look over to my right and I see like a bench in front of a

(01:12:07):
bar and there's somebody sittingon it with like 3 different bags
on the ground. And as I'm passing this person,
I'm walking by them, they jump up and they grab me and like hug
me and start crying. And it's a woman.
I can feel it's a woman side guy.
And I pull this person back and it was the girl who saved my
life that I was dating the day that I that she took me to the

(01:12:30):
hospital when I almost died and she was unrecognizable.
She's a beautiful blonde lady. And she didn't look like that
anymore. Scabs and Marks and and Abscess
in the side of her hip and everything she owned was sitting
right there. And as she's holding me and I'm
pulling her back, she's just saying, I wish I would have
stayed. I wish I would have stayed.

(01:12:50):
I wish I would have stayed. And what she was talking about
is when we when I first got soaked after I left the
hospital, we both decided to do recovery and we started doing it
together independently. But you know, both doing it
about 60 days later, she just did her own thing and just
exited the rooms, the program and just went off, you know, to
doing her thing. I just kept going.

(01:13:12):
And then now it's like full circle, like I'm witnessing like
where I would have been, you know, or maybe even worse, but
to see that. And she's like, you know, I wish
I would have stayed. My mom has you on social media
and just says your life is just crazy good and different.
And she can't even believe it herself.
And she's like, she's like, she's like, I, I need to get

(01:13:32):
sober da da da. And I even offered.
I didn't tell her I was speaking, but I said there's a
meeting like literally 3 Doors Down.
Maybe you want to go. That's where I'm headed.
You know, she never decided to go.
Wow. And it's right there.
That's how. Crazy.
That's how crazy it is. I'm just like and.
There's nothing you can do. Nothing.
We're beyond human aids, what the book says.
And it was just like a total reminder, man.
It's like, you know, it's like that's where I was supposed to

(01:13:54):
be that specific day. I mean, how did, how does that
even happen? Like the, the coincidence, you
know, and I've just had so many of these things happen in my
life and I don't know, it's justastonishing.
But yet there are subtle reminders too, you know, 'cause
one bad subway 1 bad decision away.
I could be right there, you know, and I don't wish that upon
anybody. And I just want everybody to

(01:14:14):
know that, you know, it's, it's out there and there's an
extension for it's like, I just want to be able to help them in
any, any way possible. If they're open to doing
recovery or want to change theirlife, there's a.
Way out there. Really.
Is. There truly is.
I'm. So glad we got this information
out man. I did not think it was going to
go this direction and sounds beautiful, man.

(01:14:35):
Thank you for joining. Thank you for being so honest
and raw. And this was amazing to sit in
this with you. And I'm so I'm not in that
program anymore and like this shifted my perception and my
memories of that program. I remember all the beautiful
parts and I have not remembered those the last few years.
I've remembered the parts I didn't like and use that as

(01:14:55):
like. So thanks for coming dude.
Honored to be here. Thank you for having me.
It's been renominal.

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