That Funny Guy in High School Was Hiding Painful Secrets: This is Why Andy Became a Youth Counselor

Troubled youth counselor Andrew Jones opens up about his journey from being the life of the party in high school to battling his personal demons and ultimately becoming a therapist.He talks about his struggles with alcohol and depression, the challenges of growing up in a difficult home environment, and his path to sobriety. Andy shares heartfelt stories of working with troubled youth in a group home and discusses the importance of finding one's voice and being authentic. He also dives into his views on spirituality and the importance of making meaningful human connections. Join us for an inspiring conversation about personal growth, empathy, and the power of resilience.

00:00 Intro

01:26 The Importance of Sharing Stories

10:16 High School Substance Use

19:42 The Path to Sobriety

31:25 Mentoring Youth and Personal Growth

35:14 Challenges of Managing Teenagers with Substance Abuse

37:35 Low Success Rates in Sobriety Programs

38:16 Opportunities and Struggles for Youth

39:34 Reflections on Spirituality and Religion

41:34 The Importance of Open-Mindedness

49:26 The Role of a Therapist

52:40 Compartmentalizing Emotions#survivorstory

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
In high school, man, you were the life of the party.
You were fun like. What was life like for you?
Was that? Was it happy and jolly like you
came off? No, that's what I let people see
because I didn't want to show like the hurt I had had
experienced or was currently experiencing Inside.
It was no like I was a wreck. I was a brain wreck.
When I looked into a mirror, it was like you're a piece of crap,

(00:21):
like you are contributing nothing.
Sophomore year of high school was kind of like, I'm going to
try to get a gold medal and drinking.
What was the end like getting sober?
Like, what did your life look like?
Like where you were? Like, dude, I'm I'm done.
I got to make a change. I truly feel that struggling as
much as I did in the lessons that I learned was a blessing.
I love being asked like you become a therapist and for me
it's like to be the voice for the people that don't know how

(00:43):
to use theirs yet or they don't know they have one.
Being a voice for the voiceless.How do you feel about
spirituality, religion, like God?
Source. Like, where's your head at with
that stuff? Oh man, that's a tough question.
You reached out and you were like, hey, I have a story and I
didn't know Instagram did read receipts and I felt bad.

(01:03):
I was like dude, he so he thinksI.
Really like bro, I felt like I was like trying to date you,
right? I was like, bro, I sent you this
message and I kept looking too, because I you're right, like I,
I saw the I saw it and I was like, this is awesome.
And I'm like, I want to be a part of this because I was one.
Absolutely. So proud of you.
Thanks man. You're welcome.
And then two, just I think it's great.

(01:26):
I think people fall into a trap that it's so hard to, to, for
them to share their story, right?
Like it's hard and they get, whether it's they get
embarrassed about it or they, they don't like talking about
themselves or struggles that they've been through or even
successes. And it's, it's tough, right?
Like it? Is it's.
It's different and you got to get especially people that

(01:47):
aren't used to being on camera like that's my job is just to
create a safe space and help people unpack things with gentle
questions. Sure, that's that's what seems
to be helpful for people. You're a guide, you know, Yeah,
like, and I think that's great. Like you give you give someone
like what you said, like a safe space to be them and to like
share their authentic story and share, like share about them.

(02:11):
And that's awesome because I don't think people get that
opportunity as a. Yeah, and then it's there
forever, dude. Their kids, kids get to be like,
hey, look what Grandpa was like.And you know, So Grandpa, it's
fun, man. Man, Where are you from
originally? Around here bro.
Me too. Yeah, me too around here.
Never left and it's not bad. Dude, we got 4 Four Seasons.

(02:32):
Like we're close to everything. We have five seasons, dude.
Because like, fire season is like a whole season.
That's true in and of itself. Yeah, August is a whole season
in and of itself. Yeah, like, dude, that's just
the season, right? It's fire.
It's fire season Got what was ita couple years ago.
I remember walking out and ash like fall.
I can see ash falling and I'm like literally this is not.
Not good, yeah. Not good.

(02:52):
Not. Good at all, dude.
So yeah, from around here. What's your name?
I don't even fucking introduce. You're the worst host.
It's the worst. My name is Andrew Jones.
Hi. Hi.
Good to see. You.
I don't think I've ever introduced someone, now that I
think about it. Like I should probably ask
people to tell their name. You probably should.
It would help make a connection with the audience.

(03:14):
Yeah, they might, you know, somepeople might know who they are.
You know what I mean? Do I so talking about like
checking out your, your like Instagram and stuff like that.
Dude, I was so stoked to see thePhilharmonic on here.
Like I've seen him a few times. Like he's incredible.
And what he talks about is fascinating, like just his the

(03:37):
like the brevity of what he has to say that doesn't come across
all the time. And I think that's great, dude.
His appreciation for life. I I remastered or had my editor
remaster and re release it 'cause that one, like just
listening to that dude talk, he just talks like a poet and the
stuff he's saying is so deep. I was like, I have to re release
this like unbelievable that dudeand he's doing he's trying to

(04:03):
help people. It's great.
That's that seems to because I've I've had a lot of people on
here that are enlightened and I've seen it through religious
paths, spiritual paths, I've seen it through artistic paths.
And there's two things I've seenin common.
They have some they have a skillthey were born with.
They use it to create something all in service of other people.

(04:24):
Like their their entire existence is in service of other
people and they seem to have a direct connection with source,
God, creator, whatever it is foryou, and it's guiding them
through life to be of maximum service to others.
And Philharmonic is doing that. Dude.
He views his music as a continuation of universal energy
that it's his job to let flow toothers.

(04:45):
It's fucking deep. That's a great episode.
Like, I mean, we could end now. Like I can't top that, right?
Like I can't, I can't beat that.But like it's it's incredible
and I think it's great. Like when you are able to be a
witness to somebody, like being that them and like harnessing
who they are and their gift, whatever it is, right?
And some people are jerks and they have multiple gifts.

(05:08):
But like being able to witness that is incredible.
And I think like, I think peopleneed to, I think pay more
attention to it as opposed to trying to hate like.
It's when people hate, it's because they see the risk that
somebody is taking, putting their nuts on the line with
their reputation and then putting their art out there,
their create, their creation, whatever it is, and they know

(05:31):
that's what it takes. I don't have what it takes to do
that. It it's there's a saying, dude,
what you want is right on the other side of that fear.
And that's where the hate comes from.
But yeah, so dude, I remember 25years or something, but in high
school, man, you were the life of the party.
You were fun. Like, what was life like for
you? Was that, was it happy and

(05:51):
jolly? Like you came off.
No, no, that was the exterior, right?
That's what I let people see. It worked, man.
It did. It was fun.
I had a great time from what people tell me, right?
Like what I remember, but like that was that was like
projecting who I wanted people to see me as, right?
And because I didn't want to show like the hurt that I was

(06:13):
that I had had experienced or was currently experiencing the
just anger and resentment that Ihad built up in.
Me. And like on top of that, like
the depression, right? Like hiding, figuring out any
way possible to hide all of thatso that I could make it through
one day to the next and to the next and then not have to talk

(06:35):
about it, right? Like we just discussed, like
people are afraid to talk about their experience and I didn't
want to talk about mine. You know, it was just another
thing that I'm going to let someone view me as being happy
all the time and jolly and beingthe life of the party as you put
it. But inside it was no like, I was

(06:56):
a wreck. I was a train wreck.
Was it genetic or like somethinghappened?
I didn't have the best like relationship with my dad nor did
my brother. My dad was not a military guy,
but he was he was militaristic and kind of what he expected and
and how he spoke to us and how he treated us if we made a

(07:19):
mistake doing something or anything along those lines.
It was very much, I felt it was very much a home where it was do
not speak unless spoken to. So emotions are out the door.
We're not doing any emotions. No, yeah, you would get made fun
of right? Like by him and my dad was both

(07:42):
my parents were were huge Alcoholics and my my dad along
with being an alcoholic strugglewith drug addiction and so it
was very much everybody is walking on egg shells.
They both got clean and sober thank God.
But my dad very much did not know how to process anything

(08:04):
after. Being sober.
Yeah, yeah, like just didn't know how to process anything.
And I've talked about it before.It's like you have to relearn
how to be a human. Like you have to learn what it's
like to be happy and like how tobe sober after getting sober,
right. You have to, you have to teach
yourself like, I can be happy and I don't need a cocktail in
my hand and I can do like I can do life, right.

(08:28):
And he did not, he did not know how to do do that once he got
sober. And very short views.
And you, you, I, I. Every day I hoped I didn't do
something wrong. Damn so just living on egg
shell? That's anxiety.
That's. For sure and.
Then bottle anxiety enough it turns into depression.

(08:48):
Sure. I would have never known dude.
Yeah, and that's the thing. It was, there was two people
that knew, right, Like outside of my family and thank God for
them because, you know, having asafe harbor to go to, right,
Like somewhere safe that I couldgo there and I could just be at
peace and I didn't have to thinkabout anything And I could I

(09:08):
could be a kid, right? I didn't even know how families
were supposed to interact. And then being at somebody's
house and seeing their family interact with each other like
this is odd. Like with love and emotion and
stuff. What was the biggest contrast
that you saw with other families?
The ability for the kids to be kids, to like to be a kid, right

(09:31):
because. Just goof off, make sounds,
break things, you. Know and it's funny, like having
a conversation with my mom recently, she would introduce me
as without me knowing she would introduce me to people as like
this is my son Andrew. He's an odd duck, right?
Because I when I wasn't around my dad, I could try to do that

(09:52):
right? But it never felt comfortable.
And but then seeing other kids just being kids and being
themselves and having having their dad come up to him and say
like I love you and give him a hug or anything along those
lines. I was like, this is foreign,
like this is new to me. And that's very necessary for
the proper development emotionally and cognition whole

(10:15):
thing it's. Absolutely.
Were you drinking in high school?
Yeah, yeah, I had. I had my first drink.
Oh my God, since 6th grade. And my, my cousin actually was
like just one, we were at a wedding and she was like, here,
here you go try this. And I didn't, I mean, it tasted

(10:36):
good, but it wasn't something where I was like, Oh my gosh, I
need this right. I would definitely say freshman,
sophomore year of high school was kind of like, OK, I'm going
to, you know, I'm going to try to get a gold medal in drinking
when I could. And it just kind of progressed,
right. It was just kind of one of those
things where it was my parents would go on trips every every

(11:00):
year for like a week at a time. And whatever money they left
that was supposed to be for foodwent straight to booze.
Then I, the place where I workedat in high school, I would be
able to acquire food, right? Yeah, Acquire food from where I
work. I'll put it that way.
And so it was like, OK, this is done.
I'm going to eat sandwiches for a week and a half straight and

(11:21):
then whatever this is just goingfor booze.
And then that's what it was. It was just trying to.
Yeah, just drinking a lot and then delved into some other
things in high school. A lot of things scared me in
high school as far as substancesand recreational use.
That just scared me. There was a lot floating around

(11:42):
in high school, like we got flooded the rich suburban high
school. I mean.
Hard drugs everywhere? Yeah, crazy.
And that that. So that's another thing that
stands out to me. If we I'll circle back to the
substance use in high school. But growing up, like my parents
didn't have money and they, likemy, my mom still doesn't have

(12:05):
it's, she doesn't like, yes, herzip code says Granite Bay, but
it's like she doesn't they, it was never like an affluent
household. And so I remember working my
tail off to get my first car when we're sophomores.
And then I'm seeing people that we go to high school with
pulling in and like BMWs and Hummers and Escalades.
Crazy. So this is not, this isn't real

(12:27):
life right now. And thankfully I still have the
mindset of no, you need to work for what you have.
Like you have to earn it insteadof here you go.
Right. Because I remember I crashed
that car within a month and I was like, oh man, I gotta figure
this out. Yeah, no ones gonna buy me a new
one. The kids that really got that

(12:48):
stuff handed, I mean, we, I'm not going to name names, but we
know who they are that it didn'treally turn out.
Well, didn't pan out. Turns.
Out that's not the way to raise a kid is buying a $60,000 car
and, you know, $200 shoes and man.
That's why I still wear the vansdude.
Yeah, yeah. But so going back to like use in

(13:09):
high school, usage in high school and again, not to name
names, it was like, take your pick in the morning, right?
What did you want to do? Like in the parking lot, like
pick what substance you want to use for the day and.
And I mean any like it was all there.
It's hardcore. Is it?
I like. I, I very much remember a

(13:30):
classmate dropping acid in the parking lot and then trying to
attempt to go to school for the day.
And I had, I had second period with him and I look over and
he's just doesn't know what he'sdoing.
Excuse me, know where he's at. This is like when camel pack
backpacks were, you know, the the new, new rage.

(13:51):
Like I would make a screwdriver in the morning in my camel pack
and I would just walk around campus all day just sipping on a
on on a screwdriver. That's crazy.
You know, for youngsters, that'svodka and alcohol and LJ.
But yeah, it just that was that was the norm.
And then ecstasy became popular.Oh yeah.

(14:12):
And that was the whole thing. Opiates were everywhere, Oxys
and stuff. Yeah, were you?
Did that scare you at all? I dove right in, dude.
So I went to I, I went to a reform school from 14 to 16.
So when I came out, I was just it.
I was socially shocked. Like I didn't know how to talk

(14:33):
to people. I'd just been in an environment
with for two years with 200 people and all we did was get
raw and work on our emotions and, you know, get abused.
Didn't didn't know it at the time that that's what that was.
But it was definitely these adults were not licensed doing
all this stuff. And I'm very grateful I got to
go. And I'm careful because it, you
know, it wasn't cheap and I don't want to upset my parents

(14:53):
and stuff. But yeah, dude.
And then I got out, same thing just so amped all the time.
Like I was telling you about. I have a very hard time turning
my volume down and. The volume in your head.
Just my whole body, heart rate and everything.
Just everything. Yeah, like it, just it.
Like I shake. Spinal tab dude just set.
It up to 11, my thing, yeah, my natural state is tense and it

(15:15):
just always has been and I've tried everything but so 6-7
months of that after reform school I took I went to a party
that lost my virginity, had a little big night.
Yeah, it was a big night. Had a little weed for the first
time. Had some alcohol.
Pre or post coital? It was pre there.
You. Go, Yeah, yeah.

(15:37):
And I just remember feeling likethis, this relief, and I'm like,
OK, cool. Well, here's my crowd then
because I couldn't relate to people, dude, I remember I got
out and like, I mean, he's dead now.
So we can say, but like Chris Lucia did like he was mean to
people. I just remember everybody was so
mean to each other and I thought, this is fucked up.
Like why is everybody calling each other fat and stuff?
This is not what I'm used to. I didn't like it.

(15:57):
And so then I gravitated to the weed crowd and then oxy flooded
in, dude. And that that that got me after
high school. Luckily I graduated early
because I had so many credits from their form school.
They did good in the school, butyeah, I in high school I was
doing the E and I was doing the the psychedelics.
Not spiritually sure, there's nopurpose to it.

(16:20):
No. And they're doing.
It 'cause you don't want to experience the day.
Yes, right. That's that's all I was trying
to do is how do I stay? Like how do I mute?
Everything else, I just want to be calm, but and I was raised in
DARE drug abuse resistance education.
So in my head, if you're doing weed, you might as well be
shooting heroin. And if you're doing weed, you're
already so far into drugs. Like OK, let's try coke then.

(16:41):
Let's try this then. And.
So I was raised with Dara's likedrugs are really expensive,
right? Like that's what we just, we
used to mock it 'cause it was the, the this is your brain on
drugs with the egg in the frying.
Pan I remember those commercials.
I just. Remember, like laughing like
that's not accurate. And then sure enough, like
after, you know, making stupid decisions, you know that is

(17:04):
accurate. Yeah, to for certain drugs used
frequently enough, for long enough, Absolutely.
Egg fryer break. Yeah, yeah.
Did addiction get to you in highschool or was it after?
I wouldn't say. I mean, I'm sure looking back,
yeah, yeah, you could probably say that it got to be in high
school. But if I were to look at it, I
would say that's that was just my defense.

(17:25):
Like that was just me coping because like you, I didn't know
how to socially, yes, I could, Icould carry a conversation or I
could be funny. I could do something stupid to
make people laugh and all that. And but I didn't know how to be
a person. Yeah, I didn't or and definitely
not be yourself, correct. You probably didn't even know
yourself if you're having a stifle emotions and stuff.

(17:46):
I. Don't even know if I still know
myself completely right. Like I feel like I feel we're
we're learning about ourselves every day, right.
And I think you should learn about yourself every day.
And I think for me, like a big thing that's helped me is
telling myself every morning, like, how can I be a better
version of myself today than I was yesterday in whatever
capacity that it is? How do you gauge whether that

(18:07):
happened or not? I think internally if I if I can
look back on on yesterday and say this is a mistake that I
need to correct. This is something that I okay,
this is I maybe I raised my voice at at my kid, or I didn't
handle a conversation the way that it should have been, or I
was short with somebody. So you gauge it on how other
people are feeling when they're interacting with you.

(18:28):
Which is again goes back to justscrewed up childhood right?
Like wanting to make sure that Ican please instead of having
someone be pissed off. Oh, so it developed codependency
I. Would imagine.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Like it's just I. Would imagine.
Yeah, yeah, like, yes, right. Like, yes, it did.
But it's a way that I've been able to learn.

(18:50):
Like, OK, it's not like I'm going to ask somebody a million
times, are you OK? Like what's wrong?
But it's just I can gauge, right?
If I and I know that if I didn'thandle a situation correctly, I
know, right, Like, oh, I was a jerk.
I shouldn't have done that or I shouldn't have said that.
So back to I don't yes, right. Like, you could look back and
say, yeah, I was, I had an addiction issue.

(19:11):
But for me it was just how do I get through the day, right?
Like, how do I continue to be ina, in a state to where I can
make people laugh or, you know, do something stupid, whatever it
was, right? Like how do I keep this this
image of who I want people to see me as continuing?
How did that end? And.

(19:33):
Probably not well. No.
Yeah, you, you did. You say you spent 1012.
Years it was a while sober yeah,being fully clean and and sober
and. What, what was the end like
getting sober? Like what did your life look
like where you were like dude, I'm I'm done.
I got to make a change. Mistake after mistake, having
friends tell me they didn't wantto be my friend and anymore,

(19:54):
which that's not easy to hear, right?
And realizing that like I didn'teven want to be my friend.
Like if, if I was, if I had a friend that was like me, I'd be
like, no, I don't want to hang out with you, right.
Like that's a slap in the face. Like I'm a huge fan of Robin
Williams. And he had a he had this, this

(20:14):
joke. It wasn't really a joke.
It was him talking. And he said it got to a point
where I couldn't look myself in the mirror.
And because he said I didn't like who was looking back or
what was looking back. And when I did that, when I
looked into a mirror, it was similar to that.
It was like, dude, you're a piece of crap.
Like you are contributing nothing.
Like you have no purpose. What are you doing?

(20:36):
You're. How old were you at that point?
Man 21. OK, yeah.
So you went hard getting sober that young?
Yeah, man. Yeah, it was.
It was tough. It was tough.
So what did you do? How did you get sober?
I stopped. Just done.
I told myself, I don't know if it was God who I was talking to.
I didn't know. I don't know who it was or you

(20:57):
know what, whatever you want to call it, but every night it
because it was I was too. I was disgusted, right?
And so for so many nights it waslike, please take this away from
me. I don't want to experience this.
I don't want to deal with this anymore.
Sorry, I wasn't 21. I was 24 because it was shortly
after I got married is when I got when I got clean and sober

(21:17):
and I didn't know who to talk to.
I didn't know who to ask for help.
I didn't know how to ask for help because I grew up not
knowing that I could ask for help, right?
And for me, it was just just asking whoever could hear me
right When I'm yelling at myselfinternally and you're
desperately crying out internally, take this away from

(21:40):
me. Like I do not want to experience
this anymore. I, I, I want to like who I am.
And there was mornings that I would wake up and it was like up
back to the same old bee. And then finally one morning I
woke up because I would set, I was strategic, like I would set
stuff out at night so that I knew that all I had to do was

(22:01):
wake up in the morning and roll over and boom.
There it is. And so I woke up 1 morning and I
rolled over and looked at it andwas like, no, I'm OK, I don't
need that right now. And then it was like just get in
the shower. And then I was like, just get
through a shower, took a shower and it was, I was able to do
that. And it was like, OK, get
dressed, right. And being able to do that and

(22:25):
just baby step for a day. And then it was like, OK, cool,
you do this for 24 hours, do it again.
And then it was do it again. And and then just trying to
continue to, to stack up those days.
And it wasn't easy. Like there was definitely days
where it was like, I'm doing this, like I'm going to drink
today or I'm going to use the substance.
I'm going to grab whatever's closest to me.

(22:47):
You know what I mean? You think that morning when you
woke up and you didn't, all of asudden you're like, oh shit, I'm
good. You think that was whatever you
were talking to, removing that? Probably, probably I didn't.
I don't know who it was. I still I would couldn't point
that to what it was or who it was or if it was just my.
Resolve will. Not even that like absolute 100%

(23:11):
need to get rid of it right, to just close the door on that
person on that. Like when I say person, I'm
talking about like that version of me, right, like close the
door on that. And I'm thankful that it, that
what, however it worked out, I'mthankful that it did.

(23:31):
And we, we, I've kind of mentioned it like learning,
relearning how to be a human, not even relearning, learning
how to be a person, right? Being able to smile and say it's
OK to smile or it's OK to cry. It's OK to laugh and have
friends. And this is how you have a
friendship. And this is what a healthy
friendship looks like. And going through that, that

(23:54):
processes has was fantastic. Like I wouldn't have asked for
it to be any different. I think like I, I truly feel
that struggling as much as I didin the lessons that I learned
and seeing how much of A jerk that I was and just like how
much I buried. And to be able to then finally
like start to look at it and start to like see these things

(24:17):
and have these conversations with people was was a blessing.
Like I like, like you said, likewe, we've had friends that we
know that have passed away from various reasons, like a lot with
drugs and alcohol. And to be I just have just this
overwhelming gratitude that thatwasn't me, right?

(24:39):
That it was, Yep, I struggled and I made stupid decisions like
most kids do, but then to learn from it and then come out of it.
And the. Mostly unscathed.
And the empathy and compassion that it gives you for other
people struggling, whatever way they struggle, not just drugs
and alcohol, but when you experience doing something
that's harming you and you don'twant to do it and you're trying

(25:02):
to stop and you keep doing it against your own will, that's,
that's humbling. And so it at least it gave me a
sort of empathy for anybody who's struggling with anything
that they don't want to be doing.
Yeah, and it's like, I, I like what you said, that it doesn't
even have to be drugs and alcohol, right?
It could be struggling with how they parent their kids.
It could be struggling with justhaving a downright distaste for

(25:25):
their job, right, And wanting todo something different.
But being what you said earlier was the changes on the other
side of fear, right? Like what you want is on the
other side of fear and being able to kind of harness that and
for individuals to see it and tohelp someone see it, right?
To be able to help someone acknowledge that and say you're
right, like I can do this, it's going to be hard, but I can do

(25:48):
it. Yeah, I think that's great.
I think it's. Great.
Were you like religious or spiritual at that time or
anything? Kinda, I wouldn't say a lot like
I, I went to church and my youthpastor at church, actually, he's

(26:09):
incredible and he's, he's like asecond older brother to me.
Not, not that we like talk like all the time anymore, but just
the impact that he had on me because I thought he was
hilarious and but I never saw him do anything out of the
ordinary, right. And I say out of the ordinary,
like drinking or using substances.
And he was just a happy go luckyguy.

(26:31):
And so I was drawn to the ability to be funny, like to
just feel free, right, and goingto church and and doing that.
But I never felt like I fit. I never felt like I belonged.
And that's tough, right? Especially, I mean we have the
what I would consider to be a a pretty significant almost mega

(26:52):
church in our area. Massive mega church like as mega
as like. How many campuses do they have
now? Like 27 or.
Something I don't know. But to have the this huge uptick
in spirituality and faith in ourcommunity, but not feeling like
I blonde or I fit. And it was like, man, this is

(27:14):
this is odd, right? And so it was like, yeah, I
would like dip my toe in and go to church and, and do that.
And then, you know, I, I checkedout a, a Mormon church for like
a month and a half and sorry, LDS, yeah, church and just even
there just never feel like I fit.

(27:34):
And it was just so weird. It was like, how where like,
what tribe do I belong to? Right.
Like where do I belong? Did you ever find it?
I don't know. I think I'm, I'm probably still
searching at some level of because for me now it's it's who
do I want to who, who do I want to surround myself with, right.
You are who you run with. No shit, right?
I didn't believe that, but it's definitely true.

(27:56):
You are who you run with. And so for me, it's I, I want to
surround myself with people thatchallenge me.
Like I want them to call me out like you're, you're being an
idiot. Don't do this.
I want people to, to, I want to be able to celebrate with people
as much as they want to celebrate the successes with me.
And I want them to, to be there for the failures as much as I

(28:17):
want to be there for their failures, right?
To build each other up. And I would say I have a pretty
good core of, of, of folks that I can do that with.
But it's still still that, that,that notion of is this where I
belong, right? And that's, I don't know if that
was is ever going to go away from me.

(28:40):
I, you know, I, I cannot, I honestly don't know if it ever
will. And so part of that is scary,
right? If I, if I go through the rest
of my life not knowing where truly where I fit in or where
who I belong with or where I belong, am I OK with that?
Like, yeah, I think that's an adventure, right?
Like I'm down to meet people, you know what I mean?

(29:00):
I. Love that outlook.
I think that's an adventure, andit's the.
Best part of life man. Meeting new people, making
connections, learning about them, seeing what makes them
tick, what are they interested in, what's their story.
I think it's best. Part it's so fascinating and I
like it's, it's, it's to me likeI'm going to use the word it's
such an adventure, right, to just say hi to somebody instead

(29:24):
of keep your head down buried inyour phone and and ignore
society and ignore like what's going on around you.
But be a part of it. Like say hi to somebody that you
don't know and ask them how their day's going.
Don't let them get away with saying good or fine like.
Yeah, I always ask like, how's your shift?
You know, because that they answer that directly and say,
hey, when did you get off? And you just watch their guard

(29:46):
drop and I people, all you got to do is say hi to people.
You can completely change their life.
Like whoa, somebody looked me inthe eye and asked me how my day
was. It has an impact.
It does, it truly does. And I saw a sweatshirt.
I was, I was, you know, at the holiday season, I was out
shopping like all the other lemmings and, and someone in
front of me in line had a sweatshirt on and on the back of

(30:08):
the sweatshirt, It was, it literally just said, whoever,
you know, whoever's reading this, just know that you are
important and that you matter and.
It's a cool sweatshirt. Right, it's it was awesome.
And I'm sitting there like looking around, I'm like, is
this is this guy talking to me, right?
Is this pie sweatshirt? You know what I mean?
And I think that's, that's awesome because I think that

(30:29):
that leads to conversation, right?
Like that individual is clearly showing, like you can say hi to
me, right? You can talk to me like I'm here
for you. I'm here for us, even though I
don't know you, you know what I mean?
That's cool. And I think that's that takes
balls. It does.
That's courageous. Definitely.
Because definitely. There's days, I mean, we all
have them, right? Like I don't want to talk to

(30:50):
people At the end of the day, I'm.
Tired. Definitely not.
I'm tired. Right.
I want to go to bed and I don't want to have a conversation.
You know, if I'm, if I have to run up to Walgreens for
something and someone stops to ask me a question and I'm like,
I don't know man, sorry. Yeah, sorry, love, you got to
go. Right.
But that's the same thing. It's the same thing.
It's like just be open to new people.
Like be open to new experiences and new stories and, and learn

(31:13):
about people. Yeah, yeah.
And have fun with it. Like, you don't have to be so
guarded, right? People don't have to be so
guarded all the time. So what a like how was the
experience of mentoring youth? What age did you do that?
At how long did you do it? You were you were involved in a

(31:33):
group home. So that was, Oh my gosh,
probably 1213 years ago at this point.
And it was during when I was getting my undergrad.
So I I didn't do college the traditional way of the OK,
you're done with high school, not go to college.
I didn't. Know what college was, I
couldn't even spell college probably.

(31:54):
And so for me it was I spent a lot of time, I didn't backpack
across Europe, but I spent a lotof time discovering myself,
right? Like I didn't go study abroad or
anything. And so finally, like when I
started going back to going backto school, I had this
realization of the, this is whatI'm supposed to do.
Like this is what I'm, I'm meantto do.

(32:14):
And so pursued it, pursued it and went to school for it.
And during my undergrad, an opportunity came up to work at a
group home. And it was all for kids that
were sent straight from juvenilehall that struggled with
substance addiction. And it was literally any
substance you can think of, likedown to the, the air in a can,
like the dust off spray. And I worked there for three

(32:39):
years and loved it. Like some days it was like,
dude, I don't want to be around six teenage boys right now.
And I want everyone to be absolutely quiet.
And then there was other days where it was like, dude, this is
fun, right? Like teaching that cuz I, I got
to show them what it was like tobe a kid because they didn't

(33:00):
have that experience either. You know, a lot of the kids
coming from broken homes, if they knew their biological
parents at all, their parents struggling with addiction and
their parents parents, right? Just looking at the
generational, finally understanding what generational
curses meant, right? Like being able to see it
because I was, I didn't want to look at it for my, my lens,

(33:22):
right? Even though my parents struggled
with it, their parents did. And their parent, right?
And just not wanting to look at it from my lens, but being able
to see it from theirs and fully understanding what that's like
and, and understanding it and being able to connect with them
and mentor them and, and work there was was incredible.
That's awesome, man. Yeah, the, the one of the

(33:45):
funniest stories, we're kind of standing around waiting to, to
go somewhere as, as like a house, right.
So it's me and two other staff. And then six of the residents
and one of the residents comes up and he's like, hey, Mr.
Andrew, like, what time is it? And I literally, I pointed to a
clock on the wall and he looked at it and he's like, so, So what

(34:08):
time is it? It was one that was had the arms
on it, right? And I chuckled because I thought
he was being funny because he's a sarcastic individual like me.
And so I thought he was just being funny.
And once I chuckled, I could seethe expression on his face
completely change. And he was not happy.
And I was like, I'm so sorry. Do you not know how to read a

(34:29):
clock like that? And he was Nope.
And I said, can I? Can I teach you?
Are you OK with him? I teach you.
And he said, yeah, absolutely. Nice.
Down to like not being able to read a clock right?
That's a whole different existence than what we were
doing, or at least what I was doing.
That's crazy. And being able to take kids to
the snow and they've one have never seen snow or two ever been

(34:52):
in the snow, right? And just watching their tough
exteriors, just no pun intended,like melt away and make a
snowball. Like learn how to make a
snowball and throw it at someone's face.
Like that's what was like. Seeing that joy on them was
incredible. Was that the most rewarding
part? By far.

(35:13):
That's cool, yeah. What was the most challenging
part of it? Dealing with six teenagers that
all struggled with drugs and alcohol and.
Just kind of. Trying to manage six different
personalities and the six different like individuals
attempting sobriety, right? I couldn't manage myself when I
was like, there were times whereI couldn't manage myself.

(35:35):
But now I'm trying to manage sixother humans at attempt their
sobriety and what they're going to do.
And one because they didn't knowhow to manage their own emotions
or anything. And but now I'm trying to manage
their emotions with them and andhelp them as well as their
sobriety. And yours, trying to figure that
out, correct? Yeah.
Correct. And that was, that was by far

(35:56):
that was tough. Yeah, that was, that was
challenging. And did you have the same group
for long periods of time? The program, it kind of depended
on them like the minimum amount of time that unless they ran,
right, like unless they went AWOL and did any of that stuff,
if they stayed the minimum amount of time to like
successfully graduate the program was 10 months.
OK, But there were kids that were there for beyond that.

(36:21):
And so that was, that was neat, right?
Like being able to see these kids turn from showing up.
So I hate the world and F you and I don't know you, but F you
to I'm I'm thankful that this place exists, right?
Like, I'm so appreciative of it and it's tough, right?
Because along the way you learn about the, the fancy, the fancy
word of recidivism, right? I.

(36:42):
Don't know what that means. So the the likelihood that
someone's going to return to what they were doing right, so.
And it was that pretty likely. Oh, it was high.
It was like it was mountainous high, right.
And you see these kids like, I got this figured out, like this
is OK, I'm I'm good to go. But here we are like you go back

(37:02):
to your environment with no changes in the environment and
you're just put back in it like you're the odd one out.
And to the the most challenging part, sorry, was receiving phone
calls or receiving word that like someone slipped up, right?
And they, they relapsed and or they're back in juvenile hall
because they made a done decision that was that was

(37:26):
equally as as hard as managing my emotions, their emotions and
sobriety. Yeah, wow.
And seeing how low the success rate is.
Dude, that's tough. It's like 3 to 5% tops.
Like anybody that wants to get sober, whatever path you go,
whether you go science or well, actually science has a pretty

(37:49):
high one with things like Vivitrol and Naltrexone and
things like that. But a, a white knuckling it,
spiritual, whatever, it's not very good odds that you're never
going to do that again. And that's not, that's sad,
especially when someone's like ruining their life, you know?
Right. And then you can also look
across the table though at someone that can have a beer or

(38:09):
two and that's it. Yeah, right.
Like that's tough, right. But then but yes, but just
seeing how low the success rate is and the these kids are given,
once they come into a program like that, they're given so many
opportunities, right, because you're, you're considered a, a

(38:30):
ward of the court at that point.And so you can, there's so much
funding that's out there and there's so many opportunities
and you know, the college tuition becomes free.
Like all this stuff, right? Is there.
They just have, it's that thing of I want this right, But I'm so
afraid to to do it. Yeah, maybe nobody's believed in
them. Yeah, that's a big thing.
And to to watch individuals squander, right.

(38:57):
Or to just kind of like, let that opportunity go by.
It's like, hey, what are you doing?
Yeah. What are you doing?
Yeah. Like, I know you have something
up here. What are you doing?
Like, I wish college would have been free for me.
Right. Like that would have been
awesome. It was a lot cheaper than it is
now, but it was not free. Maybe yours wasn't if you did

(39:19):
post grad. Stuff.
Well, I mean, you know, Sierra College back in the day, what
was it? It was like $18.00 a unit.
Yeah, I was paying like 200 bucks or something.
And that included your books anda parking pass.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I mean, I think that buys you a cup of coffee there now,
you know. So today are you, how do you
feel about spirituality, religion, like God, source, like

(39:41):
where's your head at with that stuff?
Oh, man, that's a tough question.
Yeah, I don't know. Do I think something out there
is greater than all of us and orare we just, you know, do we
just magically wind up here one day?
Like I think there's something out there I don't know what it
is, right? I think there's I don't think we

(40:01):
were an accident and I don't think that we were.
We were put here out of two things colliding, right.
Like I. But I don't know, and I think
that's part of the adventure that I was talking about earlier
and whether that's through self discovery or happenstance, right
of figuring that out and just getting hit in the face with it.

(40:24):
But I do think so like, let me I'll answer your question
because I kind of just dodged it.
No, no, so I apologize you did. I struggle with with religion
and I struggle with like I struggle with organized religion
because I've seen I've seen mistakes get made by individuals
that hold high, you know, substantial positions and

(40:46):
organized religion, and then there's really no consequences,
right? And I'm not saying that just
because they're in a position ofleadership within a religion
that they're not going to make mistakes because that's stupid,
right? Everybody makes mistakes.
I just have AI have a tough timewith it in the sense that it
it's hard for me to blindly right, but that's faith, right?

(41:09):
It's hard for me to blindly adhere to certain aspects and
and rules and and requirements, but not be able to see the
tangible reason why right of Oh,because God says this, like this
is what what we do, right? Like, OK, that's that's the hard

(41:30):
part. But again, that's the faith,
right? Having the faith to be able to
do that. I think, I think there's
something to learn from any organized religion.
Like there's, there's pros and cons to any organized religion.
And I think having an open mind and an open heart to be able to
hear those things and to understand them and to
acknowledge them super important.
It's super important. I could sit across from someone

(41:52):
of, of Muslim faith and be able to learn something from them,
right? Just I could learn something
from their beliefs and their, their, their, their faith,
right? Just as much as I could sit
across from, from someone that'sJewish.
And I think that's incredible, right?
But having that, having the, theunderstanding that it's OK to

(42:12):
have like that open mind and that open heart and to be able
to ask questions and not put someone down because you have a
different belief right away. Like, no, that's not what I
learned, right? Being so close off to the idea
that there's something else, right?
That there's another, another way to look at something.
Yeah. So do you think there's a rhyme
and reason to all this? Like why we're here?

(42:34):
Do you feel like there's a purpose and.
We're we're a video game. You think a simulation?
No. No, I don't want to go down that
rabbit hole, right? But dude, I got a my daughter
was like half asleep and in thiskind of half dream state and she
goes Dad, she's sitting like this.
She goes, what if we're in someone else's dream?
Yes, that was like, what? What a great question to ask

(42:57):
yourself. Life's important to ask.
But how crazy is that? That a girl who's never heard
that concept 11 years old. So maybe we are.
It's kind of weird to think about.
That's that's that's pretty awesome.
Yeah, it is. It's, it's it's weird, right?
You can go down the rabbit holesand you can, you can, I mean.

(43:19):
It doesn't for me though. Like it can be fun thought
exercise, but that doesn't change anything.
Like we still got bills to pay. We still got other people.
Do we, you know, do we have bills to pay?
I don't know what is money? It's just a frequency, right?
Right. Yeah, time is a construct, Yeah.
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
So like, why do I feel like everybody's here?

(43:40):
Like in this big, big circus that we call life?
I don't know, to learn from eachother, learn who you are as a
person and definitely to to learn from from others and to
have that open mind and that open heart to receive
information just as willing as people are so quick to give it,
right? Yeah, everyone has an opinion.

(44:01):
But are you willing to to sit and and realistically listen to
somebody else's Wow. And honestly, listen.
And challenge your own, like, open minded.
I try not to have any stances anymore because I could feel
totally different in two years. It's bizarre.
I feel different tomorrow. Yeah, yeah.
Right. And given, given our, our
climate of everything that's going on, right, it's, I don't

(44:25):
know, I could have a belief in something today, but then
tomorrow you're going to presentme with an argument, a counter
argument. And I'm going to be like, Oh
yeah, yeah, that's. Too logical crap, yeah.
Right, like I'm going to subscribe to that now, right?
I think just to go along with like having a sense of adventure
and like a willingness to learn.And I think we're here to just

(44:51):
like, as corny as it sounds to like show people like that.
It's OK to love one another, right?
It's OK to to like put your arm around somebody and say, like, I
got you, It's it's OK to do that, right?
Like let me like you're beat down right now.
Like let me support you right now, right?
Like let me let me prop you up so that we can get through

(45:11):
today. Like let me prop you up so we
can get through the next couple days, right?
You don't have to know somebody to care about people, right?
Like there's people all over theworld that I care about, but
I've never met, you know what I mean?
Like for sure when you see struggle, you see struggle no
matter what it is, right? Whether it's financial or what

(45:31):
we've talked about with substance use or depression,
anxiety, like, you name it, right?
Like when you you care about people, you should, I mean, I
feel like people should care about people.
Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's the God. I heard a quote.
Like, you can't attribute to to malice what you can attribute to

(45:53):
incompetence. And like, you can't, you can't
push. You can't just assume that
everybody's angry and they don'twant to do it.
Like if they don't understand something, they don't understand
it right? So be willing to help them to
help them learn. Yeah, I like that.
Looking out for one of you, looking out for one another.
That's why we're here. I like that.
We're here to play golf, too. Yeah.

(46:15):
Yeah. Dude, I take one swing and I
can't walk for like 2 weeks. My tall ass and back issues.
I can't. I can't.
Yeah. I mean, when you walk around
looking like the lurch, you know, from the Addams.
Family, you know. What I mean like.
I think you called me that in high school.
I probably did. I think so.
I called everybody. That brings me back.
Yeah, I did want to. Do you remember rocking out in

(46:35):
your parents garage? Oh, yeah, dude, I remember you.
Yeah, I remember you singing Beastie Boys.
I can't stand it. Yeah, dude, you know what's so
crazy about that? I think about that moment like
semi frequently the last 25 years because that is literally
how bands start. It's just people messing around
like that could if say like something.

(46:55):
Clicked and we were like any talent.
Well, even if we didn't have talent, just hey, let's do this
again Saturday. Hey, let's do this again.
If you do that enough, something's going to develop.
You're going to have a band or you're going to have some art.
I still think about that becauseI'm.
Like about it all the time. That how crazy was that?
I I was banging on the drums, you were singing and we both had
the guts to do it, right? That's how amazing things

(47:18):
happen, right? Two people just having the nuts,
So and I just, yeah, I remember that.
Your mom would open the door to the garage and like, look out
there and we're just making noise and just shake her head
and like walk away. And it was like, love you.
Yep. Yep.
Thanks for the support. Thanks for letting us do this.
Yeah, that was that was that wasa trip.
Man, that was a ton of fun. Any any stories you want to tell

(47:40):
or anything you want to share? Input you want to give.
Be comfortable being who you are.
I think like accept, like acceptyourself and be comfortable, be
comfortable with who you are. Learn how to it's and like I, I,
we've kind of talked about it, like I think you should be
uncomfortable. I think you, I think humans

(48:01):
should put themselves in uncomfortable situations because
I think that's what leads to growth.
And I think that's like, that's what leads to, to acceptance of,
of other humans and of life, right?
Don't be afraid to pursue what you feel like you're meant to
do. Yeah.
I think that's huge. I do too man.

(48:22):
I think that's huge for me, likegoing back to school later in
life with having, you know, I had my oldest son was in
kindergarten while I'm in college.
Like that's not easy. No.
That's not easy, right? He's learning how to cut out
shapes and I'm having to write aA10 page paper like this isn't
fun right now. But looking back on it like that

(48:46):
was a that that was a tough, that was one of the tough.
Going back to school was one of the toughest things I've ever
had to do because of the sacrifice that other people had
to, to make and the sacrifice that I had to make.
Right. And the fact that my son had to
make a sacrifice and he didn't even know what that word is.
Yeah. The, the things that I missed
out on because of going back to school, I'll never, I'll never

(49:08):
be able to get back. Like I'll never be able to get
back his T-ball practices that Imissed or his games that I, that
I missed because I had to write a paper or I had to be in class.
I'm not going to get those moments back.
Luckily it it helped all those kids though, you know, like.
Yeah, yeah. And like being able to do so,
you know, I went back, got my under, I got my bachelor's

(49:31):
degree, got my masters and I'm, I'm working in the field of
therapy, right? It's still that thing of, of
giving to other people. Yes, right.
Of how can I help? How can I help other people
today? And I love being asked like, why
did you get into this profession?
Like, why are you, why did you become a therapist?

(49:52):
And for me, it's like to be the voice for the people that don't
know how to use theirs yet or they don't know they have one.
And. I love that dude that don't know
they have one. That gave me goosebumps.
Yeah, like to be a voice for someone that doesn't know they.
Have and help them reveal their own voice too.
Yeah, that's great. Man, like that's that for me is,

(50:13):
you know, being a voice for the voiceless, right and and
teaching them. Like that was gonna be the
slogan as a podcast. A voice for the voiceless.
That was where, yes, it was. Jesus was meant.
This is kismet. It's meant to be.
What's Kismet meant to be? OK, is that a different language
or just a cool? It's English, I don't know, I've
had it somewhere, probably from like 51st dates or something.
Yeah. Yeah, just it's incredible to to

(50:36):
work in a field where you get, Iget to harness like helping
people, right? I get to just listen.
Yeah. And it's cathartic.
Dude, let me ask you, how do youkeep your own emotions?
Like when I do this and when it gets heavy, I have to like cry
after. I have to get it out.
I absorb it with people. Does that happen to you all the

(50:56):
time? It does.
OK, So yeah, there's no way you can sit there and be in
someone's hardest time with themfor 20-30 minutes and hear it
all out and not be affected by it.
Yeah, I literally go after a lotof these and find a place where
nobody can hear me and I'm just fucking get it out.
Just cry it all out, right? My daughter makes fun of me.

(51:17):
She's caught me a couple times. I'm like, you try it.
It's the most beautiful thing ever, though, to to meet someone
where they are when they're getting their most vulnerable
and they're telling something they didn't think they would
tell. And you've made it safe to do
that or you've been a part of them in that growth moment.
It is the most beautiful, fulfilling.

(51:37):
I thought having kids was kind of was amazing, and it was.
But dude, So what you do, you must relate to that.
It's amazing, right? Helping people in that way.
It is, it's, it's, it's incredible.
And you're right, you know, learning how to not take work
home with you, right. It's so funny because, you know,

(51:58):
people would ask, like, you know, how's your relationship
with your kids? Like you work with kids, right?
Like you. And it's like, dude, have you
ever been to a mechanic's house?Yeah.
Do you see all the cars that aresitting up front that don't
work? Do you know why that is?
It's because when they get home from work, they don't want to do
it. Yeah, right.
So they just want to go. They just want to be.
Just sloth, right? Just zone out.
And so you go to a landscaper's house, right?

(52:19):
And their grass is probably going to be tall and not like
not cut, and they're going to have weeds and all this stuff.
And it's like, like sometimes the last thing that I ever want
to do at the end of the day is talk or listen.
I get it, right. I just want to shut down because
I'm hearing so much stuff from other people that I'm just,
you're holding on to it. And so for me, what's helped

(52:43):
with that is becoming really good at compartmentalizing and
mentally visualizing myself putting it away when I'm done
with work. And it's kind of like I have a
really big file cabinet, right? And so when work is done, it's
like, OK, work is done. And I visualize, visualize
myself closing that drawer of the file cabinet.

(53:04):
And then it's like, OK, I'm donewith work.
So now I'm, I'm dad, right? And it's pulling it, pulling the
dad drawer open, right? Or I'm brother or I'm friend,
right? Like doing that because it, it
helps, right? It switches my mind off from
holding on to the, the trauma orthe stories that people have are

(53:25):
heartbreaking. And it's like, how do I, like, I
want to be able to look at my son, right?
I want to be able to look at my kid like I want to be able to
smile at some point today. Yeah.
That's a cultivated mindset, then.
So the file catch. So you've put effort into making
sure you can compartmentalize? But that's what works for me,
right? As well as like doing going to
therapy on my own, right? Honestly, And I mentioned golf a

(53:48):
little bit ago, for me, golf is incredible.
It's been a lifesaver because I can shut my mind off of to
everything else. And all I'm thinking about is
what I'm doing right now in thismoment, like how my feet are,
right, like what I'm doing, Am Ipointed the right way?
Am I going to look like an idiot?
Right. Like all this stuff, like all
I'm focused on is, is that. And I don't have to think about

(54:11):
work. I don't have to think about the
horrific things that I've heard throughout the day or the CPS
reports that I have to file. Like I don't have to think about
it. Like I'm just thinking about
this. And I I guess it just.
Be me. Yeah, I'll try to take that.
I love it though, Dude, I fucking love feeling things with
people and, and sharing that like I, I don't know how to

(54:34):
describe it. I so this is really weird, but
my whole life people just start telling me their story.
I don't know what that is. I and I think it's 'cause I'm an
open book. I've had I've had so much like
quote trauma and dude, I've you know, I've, I've lived the my
life has looked very different than it and then it has today.

(54:58):
And so I think people can sense like, Oh, I'm not going to
judge. And I always try to lead with
something for I don't, I don't know what it is, but that and
then. If you have an infectious smile.
OK, I'll take it. Like, I mean like, no joke.
Like no joke. Like you have an infect.
You've always had like a very infectious smile of like, oh, I
can, OK. He's like I, I can be, I can

(55:20):
smile, right? Like.
Yeah, OK. I'm not going to get to know
I've. Never heard that it's it's like
you guys just it's I mean I'm not trying something like it's
just it's like a warm, like you can sense like a warmth, right,
Like it's person. Care.
I love people, dude, and I do care.
I want to hear who you are. Like how did you get that
opinion? How did Yes tell me what led to

(55:42):
this moment? So yeah, that's.
One of my favorite questions to ask is like what?
Why are we here? Like, what are what are we doing
here in this moment right now? And for like, I don't know, I'm
here because I was told that I needed therapy, right?
Like my spouse said, I need therapy or.
No, this must be the you're. You're probably like.
Dude, it's, it's crazy, right? But like my.

(56:05):
Spouse told me I needed therapy.So, you know, will you check
that box for me? Yeah.
Yeah, especially when they filled out all the paperwork for
you already. Like, everything's good to go.
Like, This is why he's coming, right?
Or This is why she's here. You know what I mean?
That's interesting. It is, but it's just one of the
like, why are you here? Like, what led us to this right
now? And some people they don't know,

(56:27):
like they just, they don't have an answer yet.
Yeah. But hopefully you can just like
with with your arena here doing this, help individuals get to a
point to where they can answer that question.
Yeah. This is why I'm here, right?
This is what led to us having this conversation.
Or like, this is what led to me seeking therapy or my spouse
telling me to need therapy. Yeah.

(56:48):
This whole thing's evolving. I don't know what this is or
where this goes. I don't know what the like the
exactly. I just know I'm supposed to do
this and just keep showing up and watch for the people that
are supposed to be on here. If somebody reaches out, I
always let them on. Like I don't, I don't know what.
I don't know where this goes andI don't care.
I'm doing it forever. Like This is why I'm here.

(57:09):
I don't. I don't know what that means.
Dude that was also part of the reason why I went to school to
be a therapist was like I can dothis.
So I'm. Old.
That's awesome. Right like I.
Oh, that's a good point. You're not going to age out of.
Yeah, like. I don't have to.
I'm not bending, you know, breaking my back.
I'm not you know the you mentioned sales like God.
I'm still doing it man. I know, but like for me no it

(57:31):
enables. Me to do this absolutely and.
That's great. I'm I.
Try to stay grateful. I'm saying for me, right, I
can't, I don't want to do that. Like I don't want to do that.
Like, yes, you're able to talk to people and you're, you're
able to, you know, do that. But it's like, dude, this isn't
what I'm meant to do. This isn't why I'm why I'm here.
If I, if I didn't have this, I, I really think that's what a

(57:54):
midlife crisis is, because I felt it in myself before this
and I see it in other people. I think if you're our age and
you haven't found a way, dude. Are you saying that we're in our
midlife right now? Fuck yeah.
We're in our midlife, dude. How crazy is that?
I remember thinking, how long ago did I see Andy?
And it was like 25 years. And I'm thinking I can't be old
enough to have friends that are 25. 25 years.

(58:16):
Ago and we were in high school at that point.
A bunch of idiots. Yes, Andy, yes.
Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there.
I. Don't remember what we were
talking. About Have you heard of a life
calendar? So a life counter, right?
It's a, it's a square that represents a week of your life,
right? And so, you know, say the

(58:37):
average life for, for a male, I don't know what it is outside my
head, so don't, don't quote me on that.
But let's, let's call it 80, right?
So you have a square for every week of an 80 year old's life,
like on this giant thing, right?And you check them off right as
you go through or you just check, I'm sorry, you're just
checking off the the boxes, right?
Like, as time moves, like there's a week down, there's a
week down. Wow, that's a week down, Yeah.

(58:59):
But what's crazy is who would you say is one of the most
important people to you in your life that doesn't live within
1520 minutes of you? Oh, that doesn't my my brother.
Your brother? Yeah.
OK. Where's your like?
How far away? Tennessee.
Yeah, pretty far. How often do you see your
brother? Not often the last year and a
half. OK, so let's call it.

(59:20):
You've seen each other twice over the last year.
Sure, OK. So that's, and let's let's say
you guys saw each other for like5 days at a time, right for
that. So that's OK.
That's a week gone. It's a week gone.
Those are visits, right? If you guys continue to only see
each other. Oh wow, right, I see what you
mean. So now how many visits, how many
more visits do you have with your brother?

(59:40):
So if I have 50 years left and I'm doing 2A year 100, you know,
or something, Yeah, that sounds like a lot.
It's not. It's not no.
Right. So it's kind of crazy.
How do you? Think about how many summers do
you have left? That fucked me up.
Sean did that to me. Sean Cullen.
I'm like, wait, what? Summer's the best?

(01:00:02):
Heartbreaking, dude. It is.
It is but something. Something happens after this
life, like it doesn't end here. I know it does.
I mean, I guess I can't say I know nobody knows, but based on
some experiences I've had with. Psychedelics, some people might
know, man, some people might have that answer for you of what
happens, But I think that's that's something that's

(01:00:23):
important to hold on to is like,how do I make the most out of
this conversation, right? If you and I haven't seen each
other for 25 years and let alonehad a conversation like this,
let alone say hi, right? How more visits do we have then,
right? Of you and I, how many more
opportunities do you and I have to talk like this, right if

(01:00:44):
we're not? God, what if you viewed your
whole life that way? I just, do you think you should?
Yes, 100%. I'm going to really try to do
that. Like because in that that.
How long is my kid going to be 7and like, like me, I mean,
another 300 days? I don't know.
Sure. And then that's it.
Right, but like, so hold on to that feeling of like I will try

(01:01:07):
the most out of the the engagement that you have, right
and learn from that, right, LikeGod, I'm I'm blanking on the
word that I want to use. Kiss kiss bit kiss bot.
That was just. Kiss.
Bit kiss bit. But like, make like be selfish
in that moment, right If OK, so then in another 25 years you and

(01:01:30):
I are going to see each other. That puts us at What's the 60
Faf Math 67? Damn right.
That's kind of crazy. I'm not going to remember you
passed 67. Right.
You know, egg in the frying pan?Yep, like, but so make the most
of it, right? You see someone like have that
conversation. Yeah, I think we did today, man.

(01:01:51):
I think we did too. We.
Impressed ourselves. I want to how do you think
people can learn themselves likebeing authentic.
You have to know yourself. Like what do you think that's?
Yourself Questions like like don't be like the questions that
you're going to ask other peopleor the questions that like, I'm
not saying interview yourself, but but like ask, ask yourself
the questions like, am I happy? Right?

(01:02:14):
Like, but then you have to define happiness.
Like what does happiness look like?
Like how do you find your authentic self?
Be open to learning new things. Be open to pushing yourself
beyond what you're comfortable with.
So you gotta try new things. If you if you're not trying a
ton of things, how do you find your natural talent?
How do you find your natural interests?
And you know, how do you cultivate that thing in you that

(01:02:34):
can create something that helps other people?
Right. Granted, I've never gone
skydiving and I never will. Yeah, but I did it once.
I don't think that it has anything to do with me being
authentic. I just I think the authentic
answer is like I'm not doing that right.
It's not logical dude. Jumping out of a plane.
Why am I jumping out of a perfectly good airplane?
Yeah, right. But yeah, like be open to new

(01:02:54):
experiences, be open to having conversations with people that
you don't know and learning fromthat.
And they be be open to learning.Dude, you can learn.
I think, yeah, I think people should be learning every day.
Yeah, Learn something new every day.
Agreed. Something small, whatever.
What's the 1000 hour rule? Right.
Like you spend 1000 hours learning how to do something and
you're by the end of 1000 hours,you're going to be pretty good

(01:03:16):
at it, right? Like I'm not saying you have to
spend 1000 hours on learning howto play chess, but like learn
how to do something new. And stick through it past that
initial hardness. Oh God, so frustrating.
Well man, if we're only going tohave one conversation after 25
years, this was it dude. I'll see you at 67.
Yeah, dude. Yeah.

(01:03:37):
This was fun. I'm honored.
Thanks for joining, dude. Thank you.
I'm glad things turned out. What are you?
Before we wrap, what are you most excited about looking at
your life? Dude, my kids growing up, like
just my kids growing up and doing whatever I can to ensure
that I'm not my dad. Like for my kids, right?
Like being a better version of adad than what my dad was.

(01:04:01):
What does that look like? Emotional availability.
Yeah, happiness, smiles, laughter.
Warmth. Tickles, right?
Like silliness. Yeah, just being a.
Beautiful. Perfect dad for that dude.
That's so cool. High school, you know what I
mean? Like I would say I'm a little
more reserved now, probably not,but like, I'm still a goofball,

(01:04:21):
right? But.
We're calmer, we're more mature,but that's spirits.
Still, because we got the old knees now and the bad backs and
all that stuff, yeah, we can move slower.
We can't, you know, like we can't do that all the.
Time. No, You'll feel that tomorrow.
Dude my neck literally did pop when I did that.
Dude I did jiu jitsu the last two nights in a row.
You're an idiot. Finger sprain.
I think I re cracked my toe likewhiplash feeling.

(01:04:44):
I'm going back as soon as I can.Who do they have you like spar
against in in jiu? Jitsu like galls.
Them from Street Fighter. So it's the craziest thing ever.
You're going up against do this like 4. 8 no, yeah, or whoever
it when they know those oh they it's it's the most humbling
thing ever. Like if you do jiu jitsu a few
times, you'll never fight anyoneagain because like you, yeah, I

(01:05:08):
don't know how to describe it, but it like you're wrestling
with someone. They're not even winded.
You're in full adrenaline and they know everything you're
about to do. And it's you realize what jiu
jitsu is? It's two people fighting to the
death except one of them lets the other person tap.
And when you go get killed over and over by a dude that if you
were at a bar in your 20s, you would laugh at thinking I'll

(01:05:30):
fight you one handed. I'll never fucking fight anyone
again. Dude.
It's. That was the greatest lesson my
my older brother ever gave me was if don't ever get into,
don't ever find yourself involved in a fist fight against
a wrestler. Oh, shit.
And I never really understood ituntil, like, hanging out with
people that we know that wrestled.
Yeah. And you're kind of like messing

(01:05:52):
around. Like you tap someone on the on
the chest or on the forehead andthe next thing you know you're
in a pretzel. Yes.
And you're just looking at them like.
Forgive me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I hope you can show me mercy with your 17 year old hormones.
Like, don't kill me, you know? Right, but now it's like you
just don't know. You just don't know, right?
Everybody could be the next likeBrazilian Jiu Jitsu and or

(01:06:14):
black. Belt and they're like the
weirdest thing is it makes people calmer.
I think we've got killer in US that needs to be channelled, you
know, hunting or some kind of for me, like that's.
Romantic to think. About I love it dude, like just
getting fucked up. Like face whiplash.
Someone slams me down. I'm just like, oh, I feel alive.
That's why I always look for cauliflower ear.

(01:06:34):
Yeah, not that I'm like out looking to like try.
To get fights out. 31 Almost 40.Two, but you see that shit?
Dude, see cauliflower ear. Just turn around.
And here's the crazy thing. They're the nicest dudes.
They are. Because I know that they will
Absolutely. And they don't want to do that.
They get that out in their own way.
Dude, it's I love that culture. I'm brand new.
I'm not trying to talk like I'm some fucking.

(01:06:55):
I'm going to get my ass kicked for the next year.
Dude, I'm trying something new. Right.
Yeah, it was a bucket list thing, yeah.
Like I'm going to go learn how to do jiu jitsu at 41, almost 42
years old. Cool.
Like, here's my will. Nice, right?
Yeah, that's awesome. I'm proud.
Of shit man, thank you. I'm proud of you for doing this.
Thank you dude, I think it's awesome.

(01:07:16):
I appreciate. That, yeah, I'm honored for
being here, man. Thanks for joining dude.