May 6, 2025 • 25 mins
Descend with us into Virginia's spectacular underworld as we explore the hidden realm of wild caves. Unlike commercial show caves, wild caves offer an authentic adventure where nature remains largely untouched.
Virginia State Parks’ ranger-led caving programs provide the perfect gateway into this mysterious environment. Ranger Erin Pitts from New River Trail State Park shares insights about cave ecosystems, rare species, and the delicate formations found in these subterranean environments.
Whether you're seeking adventure, discovery, or simply a cool respite from the outside heat, Virginia's caves offer unforgettable adventures that you must experience for yourself to truly capture their wonder. Let’s Go!
Tune in next week for part 2 of this episode when Ranger Erin describes unique features and formations you can experience in the underground, memorable wild caving adventures, and how to register for an upcoming ranger-led program.
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Mentioned in this Episode:
Connect with Ranger Erin Pitts at New River Trail State Park:
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Register for Wild Caving at New River Trail State Park ("Lone Ash Cave Adventures")
Register for Wild Caving at Natural Tunnel State Park ("Wild Cave Tour: Bolling Cave/Pannell Cave")
The Virginia Cave and Karst Trail
Episode 36: Caverns and Caving in Virginia's Karst Regions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Bowser (00:01):
From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the
Chesapeake Bay, Virginia is amecca for outdoor travel and
adventure. Virginia outdooradventures Podcast is your local
guide for hiking, camping,kayaking, travel and so much
more. Get the information andthe inspiration to plan your own
adventure right here inVirginia, I'm your host, Jessica
(00:23):
Bowser, descend with us intoVirginia's spectacular
underworld as we explore thehidden realm of wild caves.
Unlike commercial show caves,wild caves offer an authentic
adventure where nature remainslargely untouched. Virginia
State Parks Ranger led cavingprograms provide the perfect
(00:45):
gateway into this mysteriousenvironment. Ranger airing pits
from New River Trail State Parkshares insights about cave
ecosystems, rare species and thedelicate formations found in
these subterranean environments,whether you're seeking adventure
discovery or simply a coolrespite from the outside heat,
(01:06):
Virginia's caves offerunforgettable adventures that
you must experience for yourselfto truly capture their wonder.
Let's go with campgrounds openand summer on the horizon,
Virginia State Parks is offeringvisitors of all ages the
opportunity to explore thenatural and cultural wonders of
(01:27):
Virginia. Diverse programming isdesigned to inspire curiosity,
foster environmental stewardshipand provide enriching outdoor
experiences for families,students and nature enthusiasts
alike, join us at Virginia StateParks for exciting, family
friendly events that invite youto explore the outdoors. For a
full schedule of eventsincluding park locations and
(01:50):
program details, click onVirginia State Parks events in
your show notes. Aaron, welcometo Virginia outdoor adventures.
Hi. Thanks for having me. Iappreciate it. What do you love
about Virginia's outdoors? Well,one thing that I love
Unknown (02:06):
is how uniquely biodiverse it is out here in the
Blue Ridge, and particularlythis time of year. Right now,
it's springtime, and there'slots of spring ephemeral
wildflowers that are bloomingspecific to caves. We have
unique and rare cave dwellingorganisms, and also just a
unique geography as well.
There's some caves in Virginiathat have extensive speleothems,
which are rock formations. Andthere's just really something
(02:30):
for everyone in Virginia stateparks, which makes my job a lot
of fun, too. I want to thank you
Jessica Bowser (02:37):
for taking me into a cave at New River Trail
State Park. We had such a funday. And what I love about
Virginia's caves is that they'reall so unique from each other.
So just because you have anexperience in one cave doesn't
mean that it represents all thecaves in Virginia, because you
could go into another cavethat's nearby and have a
completely different experience.
Do you have a memorable firstcave experience that you want to
(03:01):
share.
Unknown (03:03):
They are all so unique and different, and I sure do.
Unfortunately, my first caveexperience wasn't in Virginia.
I've lived in Virginia for abouttwo and a half years now, but
about 15 years ago, the firstcave i ever entered was Mammoth
Cave in Kentucky, which is agrand show cave. I think it's
one of the longest caves in theworld, and about 40 miles of it
(03:23):
have only been mapped, but ithas about 10,000 years of
history, and I learned about themining. There's saltpeter
mining, and then, of course, thecurrent recreation that they're
offering there. But it was myfirst introduction to caving and
show caves. And I think that'swhen I got the bug. I've
Jessica Bowser (03:40):
been to Mammoth Cave too, and it is so different
from Virginia caves, and Ididn't want to be that person,
but I remember telling theRanger that I was not impressed
with Mammoth Cave compared toVirginia's case. I think there's
so much more beautiful here.
Unknown (03:54):
I love hearing that.
That's awesome.
Jessica Bowser (03:59):
Can you tell us how caves are formed? Yeah,
absolutely
Unknown (04:03):
caves, especially in the state of Virginia, they're
primarily formed through thedissolution of soluble rocks, so
like limestone or dolostone, andthat's specific to Virginia, by
acidic groundwater. So I mean,there are other processes like
glacial erosion and volcanicactivity, but in Virginia, it's
mostly going to be through theact of acidic groundwater that
(04:25):
seeps through cracks and jointsin the rock, and it gradually
dissolves it and creates thesecavities. And what's interesting
is that this isn't dissimilar toocean acidification, what's
happening in our oceans. So whenwater and carbon dioxide
combine, they create a weakcarbonic acid. And so what's
happening in our oceans is thatcarbonic acid breaks down the
(04:47):
limestone, or the calciumcarbonate, which we know as
coral reefs and shelled animals.
And so that's the same thingthat's happening in our cave
formations, is that acidic wateris slowly breaking down that
limestone and forming crevices.
It's in the Earth's surface.
What's the
Jessica Bowser (05:02):
difference between wild caving and a
commercial or a show cave? We're
Unknown (05:07):
talking about mammoth caves, right? So the Mammoth
Cave is definitely a show cave.
They're going to be a little bitmore developed for public tours.
The trails might be paved orhave railings and staircases.
Oftentimes there's a specifictype of lighting that prevents
different types of algae orother organisms from
photosynthesizing. And sometimesthere's a little bit of
entertainment features as wellwith show caves or maybe
(05:29):
different types of lighting. Andso wild caves, which is going to
be what our tour at New RiverTrail State Park is. And of
course, the tours at naturaltunnel as well. They're going to
have sometimes specializedequipment, and maybe there's
going to be more accessibilityand development considerations
as well. You might have to bend,crouch, stoop, crawl, and you're
(05:51):
probably going to have to wearhelmets and gloves and knee pads
and wear headlamps as well. So
Jessica Bowser (06:00):
for this episode, we're going to focus on
the Ranger led caving programsthat are available in our state
parks. But I also just wanted topoint out that listeners can
find the Virginia cave and karsttrail that has more than 20
stops, including wild caveshowcase and other features on
the DCR website, and I will dropa link to that in the show
notes. So if people are lookingfor other opportunities outside
(06:23):
of state parks, they'll have alist available that they can
visit. Aaron, how many Virginiastate parks have Ranger led wild
caving programs
Unknown (06:32):
I just mentioned, natural tunnel State Park, they
do wild cave tours in theirbowling cave and panel cave, and
then, of course, New River TrailState Park, my state park, we
offer cave tours of lonash cave,and so right now, those are the
only two state parks in theVirginia state park system that
are offering cave tours. But whoknows, we might add some more in
(06:52):
the future.
Jessica Bowser (06:53):
I enjoyed the cave at new river trail because
I think it's excellent forbeginners. It's not too large
that it's overwhelming, but itstill has all the features of
wild caving. And so just like,it's like a great intro to
caving, yeah,
Unknown (07:07):
that's a really great point. That's one thing that I
like to advertise, is that ifyou've never done wild caving
before, the new river traillonash Cave is just really great
for beginners or people that areinterested in learning caving,
because it is a linear cave,there's not a lot of twists and
turns and passages. And reallythe most narrow section is the
entrance, where you might haveto crawl a little bit, but then
(07:29):
once you get into the maincavern area, you can stand
upright, and it opens up into agreat space. So if you're a bit
claustrophobic, it's just thatentrance spot that's going to be
the tightest climb.
Jessica Bowser (07:40):
Yeah, and even the entrance was not that bad at
all. I mean, when you describeit to me, I thought we were
going to be like, you know, downon hands and knees and maybe
even on our belly, squeezinginto a small space. It was not
like that at all. There's alittle bit of crawling, but it
was also wide. So you're notgoing into a really small space,
even if the ceiling is lowenough that you need to crawl a
little bit, and it's not thatlong either, so within like, a
(08:02):
minute, we were out of it. Soyeah, I don't want to deter
anybody who is claustrophobic,because I'm claustrophobic. I
don't like some of those tightspaces, and I had no problem at
all getting into this cave.
That's good
Unknown (08:14):
to hear, and I do remember you saying that. And
yeah, so it's definitely not awalking cave tour, but it's
certainly accessible to mostpeople,
Jessica Bowser (08:22):
right? And I also, after visiting new river
trail, I also got to do the twocaves at natural tunnel State
Park. And I just want to give aquick shout out to Rangers,
Lillian and Stacy, who took meon those two tours of bowling
and panel cave. And those aretwo completely different
experience as well. So even ifyou do any one of those, it's a
(08:44):
great opportunity and a greatexperience. But I would
encourage people to do allthree, because they are so
vastly different from eachother. They were completely
different, completely differentexperiences. And if you want to
see like a lot of cascadingpools, or you want to see a lot
of formations, or you want tosee a lot of salamanders, like
(09:05):
bowling cave was really cool forthat. Whereas, like panel cave
was completely different. Therewas a lot more stooping. There
was a waterfall inside thatcave. I mean, just totally
different features. I thinkpanel cave was also used during
Prohibition, so that has aninteresting history as well. So
all these caves are so uniqueand so special. And I just think
(09:26):
it's really cool that we haveaccess to
Unknown (09:27):
them. Yeah, I completely agree. I think if
anybody wants to introducethemselves to wild caving,
Virginia State Parks has threereally wonderful opportunities
for that.
Jessica Bowser (09:40):
Adventure seekers will find endless
opportunities in Grayson County,where many of Virginia's iconic
trails and landmarks excitehikers, cyclists, paddlers and
happy campers alike. Imaginethis. You're hiking on one of
the most scenic sections of theentire Appalachian Trail through
the George Washington andJefferson National. Forests
(10:01):
summiting mount Rogers or whitetop mountain, the two highest
peaks in Virginia, or strollingthrough the valley of elk
garden, where the now extinctEastern elk once roamed. Or
maybe your perfect day is on thewater. Grayson County is home to
the New River, one of the oldestand most scenic rivers in the
world. Enjoy a leisurely classone float with the family or
(10:22):
adrenaline packed class threerapids. Navigate the waters
using the New River floatcalculator to plan your trip.
The app factors flow rate, waterlevels, weather conditions,
vessel type and more tocalculate float times from point
A to point B. Prefer two wheels.
You won't want to miss the graceand gravel traverse a 72 mile
mixed surface gravel bike routethat connects the Virginia
(10:46):
Creeper trail and new rivertrail over well maintained and
remote roads featuring a varietyof challenging climbs in the
foothills of Virginia's highestpeaks. This overlooked gem of
Virginia presents some of thebest gravel cycling in the
state, mostly unwritten andundiscovered after a day of
adventure, there's nothing likegathering around a campfire
(11:08):
under a sky filled with stars.
Grayson County offers plenty ofspots to pitch a tent like the
New River campground or cozy upin a rustic cabin at the buck
wild reserve. Discover whyVirginia is for outdoor lovers.
Start your Grayson Countyadventure at the historic 1908
courthouse and visitor center,or access the visitors guide
(11:32):
online by clicking on visitGrayson County in the show notes
of your podcast listening app.
So what are the goals of theRanger led programs? I would
say,
Unknown (11:45):
in general, most of our ranger led programs, and
specifically our cave programs,we want to educate the public
about the unique fauna and floraand ecosystems and food webs of
cave adapted creatures. There'sa lot of really unique organisms
to learn about, and so I thinkoftentimes caves might be a
(12:06):
little misunderstood, or perhapspeople don't know a lot about
cave ecosystems. And so it'skind of exciting to learn about
all of these unique featuresthat make them so special.
Another thing that we try toreally focus on in our ranger
led programs is, of course,conservation messaging, so
talking about how to responsiblyrecreate and leave no trace, and
just also why these resourcesneed to be protected for future
(12:30):
generations. And we always tryto tie that messaging in,
because, in essence, that's whatwe do as public programmers. And
of course, recreationopportunities, like I said,
there's always something foreveryone in Virginia state
parks. And so once again, justoffering unique recreation
opportunities for the public.
Jessica Bowser (12:47):
Can you talk us through a typical Ranger led
program at new river trail? We
Unknown (12:52):
limit the group size to 12 individuals, and we do have
to travel down the trail, so weall hop in a van and we have all
of our caving gear, and so youwill need helmets and headlamps,
knee pads and gloves. Onceeverybody gets geared up, we hop
in the van and we drive down thetrail. It's probably about a 15
to 20 minute drive. It's not ashort drive to the cave
(13:15):
entrance. But what's reallygreat is that you almost get a
mini Park tour on the way. Wepoint out cultural and
historical points of interestalong the trail, and we also
point out some maybe perhapsunique geologic formations and
flora and fauna along the way,and we talk about the park
history. So you do get a miniPark tour along the way. Once we
(13:35):
get to the cave, we just talkabout what to expect and all of
the kind of rules and policiesto follow once we're in there,
but then the fun starts once wego through the entrance in the
cave, it opens up into our mainroom, and that's where there's
some really unique features. Sothere's hydrophobic bacteria
that forms a biofilm mat, and itsparkles, and we call it the
(13:57):
starlight room, because it kindof looks like there's
constellations that are glowingon the cave ceiling. And so
that's probably one of the mostnotable features, right when you
walk in. Another reallyinteresting feature that we
offer in our cave tours is welike to talk about the Twilight
Zone, so where the light is justpermeating the entrance of the
cave, but we also go down intothe Dark Zone, and so that's
(14:20):
where there's no lightwhatsoever. And we do a lights
out activity where we turn ourheadlamps off. We all get really
quiet, unless it's with theschool group. It's impossible
for everyone to be quiet, but wetry, we try. And so we turn the
headlights off, and then we justtake a deep breath, and it's
almost meditative, and you canhear water dripping inside the
(14:41):
cave, and just have a moment ofsilence and just experience pure
darkness. And then once thatmoment's over, we walk back up
into the main room, and then wetalk about some of the unique
cave formations, likestalactites and stalagmites. And
then we go up. Proper area ofthe cave, and it's probably
(15:02):
about, I want to say, maybe,about 100 feet worth of
climbing. So you'll probablyneed about three points of
contact moving up into the cave.
And then, of course, you knowhow you can look at clouds in
the sky, and you can pick outanimals in the clouds. Well,
there's also cave rocks. Somelook like elephants or turtles
or dragons, and so we like topoint out those fun formations
(15:24):
as well. And then, of course,along the way, we're looking for
different cave organisms. So wemight find bats or crickets,
salamanders, and maybe evenisopods or cave shrimp, cave
beetles, things like that. Ourtour, it lasts about an hour
overall. And I would say, youknow, once again, it's a really
(15:47):
great introduction to wildcaving, and it's a great
beginner cave.
Jessica Bowser (15:51):
I think we saw all of those organisms when we
were together, didn't we like?
We saw bats right at theentrance. I think there were two
of them we saw in a puddle onthe floor near the entrance, the
isopods and the little shrimpthat some were walking and some
were swimming. And I thoughtthat was absolutely fascinating.
And then somebody else in thegroup found, I guess, baby
salamanders, like in a puddle upin the higher part of the cave.
(16:15):
Oh yeah, that's
Unknown (16:17):
right, we did find some salamander larva, which was
interesting. And we saw some bigbrown bats and tri colored bats
as well. Oh,
Jessica Bowser (16:26):
see, I don't, I didn't even remember that they
were different species. I justwas. I was so amazed at the fact
that they were letting us passby, and they didn't seem to be
bothered. They just keptsleeping. And I was also
surprised at how small theywere. They're just, they're
only, like, a couple inches big,I know. Yeah,
Unknown (16:43):
they're really tiny, and yeah, they don't seem to
mind us. Now we do have a prettyconservative timeline when it
comes to recreating, and so whennatural heritage or other
biologists or groups come in todo population counts, they can
come typically when we wouldhave the cave closed for
recreation, and that's just tobe sensitive to the bats and
(17:05):
other species, and so typically,our cave programs run from
Memorial Day to Labor Day, sofrom May until September, and
that just makes it so that we'renot negatively impacting the
wildlife while they're the mostsensitive in their hibernation.
Jessica Bowser (17:21):
That makes really good sense. Are there any
risks to entering a cave? And ifso, how does the part mitigate
Unknown (17:27):
them? Oh, sure, there are plenty of risks to entering
a cave. Luckily, our staff istrained in cave safety, but you
know, you can fall in a cave.
Rocks can fall on you. There'shypothermia, and, you know, in
very extreme cases, there'stoxic gasses, but we don't have
to worry about that in ourparks. That's for very deep
caves where the air qualitychanges at certain depths. But I
(17:49):
would say, yeah, so hypothermia,you know, our caves, year round
stay about 54 degrees inside thecave. So it's really nice when
we do summer programs, becauseyou get in the cave and you're
like, Oh, this is nature's airconditioning. It feels really
good. But if you were stuck in acave, or perhaps you were there
for longer than you hadoriginally anticipated, and
(18:11):
especially if you're sitting ona cold rock, that cold rock is
going to steal your body heatfrom you, and so if you're in a
cave for prolonged period oftime, there is a risk of
hypothermia, but some of theways that you can mitigate these
risks is first of all training.
So make sure that you're trainedin cave safety, you're trained
(18:32):
in the appropriate gear, you'retrained in the appropriate
techniques of being in a cave,also bringing the correct
equipment, making sure that youhave headlamps, but also backup
batteries, backup light sourcesthat you bring layers to prevent
hypothermia from sticking in. Soespecially if you start
sweating, you can also get coldpretty quickly, making sure that
(18:53):
you have the proper equipment torecreate safely, and then also
just having a level of awarenessaround you. So once again, rocks
can fall. And so just seeingwhere there's maybe a ledge or
perhaps there's unstable ground,so just making sure that you're
aware of your surroundings,
Jessica Bowser (19:09):
I forgot to ask you if any wildlife that can be
found in our caves are rare orprotected.
Unknown (19:16):
Yeah, well, that's kind of going back to when we were in
the cave. We did see somespecies that were pretty rare.
There are some cave beetles thatare found just from a single
cave, and they're found nowhereelse. Some researchers, and even
our Virginia natural heritageteam believe that many of these
species, they share a broadlydistributed surface ancestor
(19:38):
that's adapted to the caveenvironment. So it's really
interesting. Some of these cavebeetles, they're eyeless, or
maybe they lack pigment, sothey're specifically adapted for
that cave environment. You know,that's really unique. There's
species that are still beingdiscovered right now in our
state parks that are foundnowhere else. And so yes, there
are some very unique caveadapted i. The pods and
(20:01):
pseudoscorpions and beetles andthings like that in our caves.
And then, of course, there'salso the tri colored bats, which
are not currently federallylisted as endangered, but I
believe that it might be listedas federally endangered, but I'm
happy to say that researchersand scientists have seen their
populations bounce back tohealthy numbers, and so they may
(20:23):
not be listed after all, whichis a good sign.
Jessica Bowser (20:25):
How interesting.
So knowing that some of thesespecies are really unique, some
are rare, why do we need to bemindful of Leave No Trace and
protecting delicate caveecosystems? Oh,
Unknown (20:39):
I love this question once again, you know, part of
our ranger led programs, wedefinitely tie in a conservation
message to all of ourprogramming. It's as simple as
minimizing human impact and justensuring that our caves, they
remain these pristineenvironments for future
generations. And I would saythat's even the mission of state
(20:59):
parks in Virginia is to makesure that we are protecting
these resources for futuregenerations. So if you know my
child or someone's child comesback 20 years from now, it
doesn't look any different. Andso in order to do that, we have
to minimize our impact, and wecan do that by leaving no trace
(21:21):
and making sure that, you know,we plan ahead and prepare we
dispose of our waste properly.
We respect wildlife. You know,we leave what we find. We're not
taking artifacts or rocks or anytype of wildlife home with us.
Also that we don't vandalizecaves, because some people do
like to graffiti caves. And I'msure you saw when you were at
(21:42):
natural tunnel, there's actuallyhistoric graffiti in the caves
too,
Jessica Bowser (21:47):
yeah. And that's what I think is so interesting
about it, because usually when Isee damage done in caves, it's
because somebody had fires,because they were camping inside
the cave, or they've written onthe walls. And now some of that
stuff is considered historic.
And so, like, we were, I justremember having this whole
conversation about, like, what'strash versus what's historic
artifacts? So, like, a beer canfrom 50 years ago could be
(22:11):
historic, whereas, like a beercan from last week is trash. So
it's like, I just think it'sreally interesting,
Unknown (22:21):
yeah. So I think that's also something that's important
too. Is like, if there's anymodern trash in the cave, we
really want to make sure toeradicate it from the cave
environment, because I believeit's after a 50 year time
period, it is consideredhistoric and so we don't want
any historic trash. But I willsay that it is kind of a finicky
or tricky balance with removinggraffiti or anything of that
(22:44):
nature, because you also don'twant to impact the cave
ecosystem or the environment. Soif you use any sort of cleaning
solutions, or you're scrubbingthe surface, you could also
negatively impact the surface ofthe cave. And so it is a
delicate balance of conservationin the caves.
Jessica Bowser (23:02):
And another thing that you pointed out when
we were in the cave was microplastics, and that really
surprised me. I was notexpecting to see it. I also
would not have known what it wasif you hadn't pointed it out to
me. But once we, like, startedlooking really closely, you were
able to pick out not just theplastic, but like pieces of
fabric that had been washedthrough the cave. Do you want to
(23:24):
talk a little bit about that?
Unknown (23:26):
Yeah, I was actually introduced to this concept from
a Virginia cave board member.
They had shown a UV light on thecave wall, and it glowed, and it
lit up, and you could see tinylittle fibers and pieces of
fabric on the cave wall, and Iwas really shocked to learn that
those were micro plastics. It'sfrom fabric from our clothes.
It's from the environment. Comesfrom things like surface runoff
(23:48):
or atmospheric depositions oreven human activities inside the
cave. But it was just apparent,like how widespread it was when
you shine the UV light on thecave wall, so it really starts
to paint a picture of the humanimpact when we're recreating in
these spaces, and just how muchmicro plastics are actually
(24:10):
everywhere. It's a littleshocking. But once again, we
kind of turn that intoconservation messaging as well.
And just saying, you know, let'stry to minimize our impact as
much as possible, and, you know,try to reduce the amount of
litter or microplastics that arein our immediate environment.
Jessica Bowser (24:29):
Tune in next week for part two of this
episode, when Ranger Aarondescribes unique features and
formations you can experience inthe underground memorable wild
caving adventures and how toregister for an upcoming Ranger
led program Virginia OutdoorAdventures is inspired by and
supported by listeners like you,which is why your messages and
(24:53):
feedback means so much to me.
You can text me directly byclicking on Send Jessica a text
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(25:15):
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Sign up in your show notes orvisit Virginia outdoor
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adventure on you.
From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the
Chesapeake Bay, Virginia is amecca for outdoor travel and
adventure. Virginia outdooradventures Podcast is your local
guide for hiking, camping,kayaking, travel and so much
more. Get the information andthe inspiration to plan your own
adventure right here inVirginia, I'm your host, Jessica
(00:23):
Bowser, descend with us intoVirginia's spectacular
underworld as we explore thehidden realm of wild caves.
Unlike commercial show caves,wild caves offer an authentic
adventure where nature remainslargely untouched. Virginia
State Parks Ranger led cavingprograms provide the perfect
(00:45):
gateway into this mysteriousenvironment. Ranger airing pits
from New River Trail State Parkshares insights about cave
ecosystems, rare species and thedelicate formations found in
these subterranean environments,whether you're seeking adventure
discovery or simply a coolrespite from the outside heat,
(01:06):
Virginia's caves offerunforgettable adventures that
you must experience for yourselfto truly capture their wonder.
Let's go with campgrounds openand summer on the horizon,
Virginia State Parks is offeringvisitors of all ages the
opportunity to explore thenatural and cultural wonders of
(01:27):
Virginia. Diverse programming isdesigned to inspire curiosity,
foster environmental stewardshipand provide enriching outdoor
experiences for families,students and nature enthusiasts
alike, join us at Virginia StateParks for exciting, family
friendly events that invite youto explore the outdoors. For a
full schedule of eventsincluding park locations and
(01:50):
program details, click onVirginia State Parks events in
your show notes. Aaron, welcometo Virginia outdoor adventures.
Hi. Thanks for having me. Iappreciate it. What do you love
about Virginia's outdoors? Well,one thing that I love
Unknown (02:06):
is how uniquely biodiverse it is out here in the
Blue Ridge, and particularlythis time of year. Right now,
it's springtime, and there'slots of spring ephemeral
wildflowers that are bloomingspecific to caves. We have
unique and rare cave dwellingorganisms, and also just a
unique geography as well.
There's some caves in Virginiathat have extensive speleothems,
which are rock formations. Andthere's just really something
(02:30):
for everyone in Virginia stateparks, which makes my job a lot
of fun, too. I want to thank you
Jessica Bowser (02:37):
for taking me into a cave at New River Trail
State Park. We had such a funday. And what I love about
Virginia's caves is that they'reall so unique from each other.
So just because you have anexperience in one cave doesn't
mean that it represents all thecaves in Virginia, because you
could go into another cavethat's nearby and have a
completely different experience.
Do you have a memorable firstcave experience that you want to
(03:01):
share.
Unknown (03:03):
They are all so unique and different, and I sure do.
Unfortunately, my first caveexperience wasn't in Virginia.
I've lived in Virginia for abouttwo and a half years now, but
about 15 years ago, the firstcave i ever entered was Mammoth
Cave in Kentucky, which is agrand show cave. I think it's
one of the longest caves in theworld, and about 40 miles of it
(03:23):
have only been mapped, but ithas about 10,000 years of
history, and I learned about themining. There's saltpeter
mining, and then, of course, thecurrent recreation that they're
offering there. But it was myfirst introduction to caving and
show caves. And I think that'swhen I got the bug. I've
Jessica Bowser (03:40):
been to Mammoth Cave too, and it is so different
from Virginia caves, and Ididn't want to be that person,
but I remember telling theRanger that I was not impressed
with Mammoth Cave compared toVirginia's case. I think there's
so much more beautiful here.
Unknown (03:54):
I love hearing that.
That's awesome.
Jessica Bowser (03:59):
Can you tell us how caves are formed? Yeah,
absolutely
Unknown (04:03):
caves, especially in the state of Virginia, they're
primarily formed through thedissolution of soluble rocks, so
like limestone or dolostone, andthat's specific to Virginia, by
acidic groundwater. So I mean,there are other processes like
glacial erosion and volcanicactivity, but in Virginia, it's
mostly going to be through theact of acidic groundwater that
(04:25):
seeps through cracks and jointsin the rock, and it gradually
dissolves it and creates thesecavities. And what's interesting
is that this isn't dissimilar toocean acidification, what's
happening in our oceans. So whenwater and carbon dioxide
combine, they create a weakcarbonic acid. And so what's
happening in our oceans is thatcarbonic acid breaks down the
(04:47):
limestone, or the calciumcarbonate, which we know as
coral reefs and shelled animals.
And so that's the same thingthat's happening in our cave
formations, is that acidic wateris slowly breaking down that
limestone and forming crevices.
It's in the Earth's surface.
What's the
Jessica Bowser (05:02):
difference between wild caving and a
commercial or a show cave? We're
Unknown (05:07):
talking about mammoth caves, right? So the Mammoth
Cave is definitely a show cave.
They're going to be a little bitmore developed for public tours.
The trails might be paved orhave railings and staircases.
Oftentimes there's a specifictype of lighting that prevents
different types of algae orother organisms from
photosynthesizing. And sometimesthere's a little bit of
entertainment features as wellwith show caves or maybe
(05:29):
different types of lighting. Andso wild caves, which is going to
be what our tour at New RiverTrail State Park is. And of
course, the tours at naturaltunnel as well. They're going to
have sometimes specializedequipment, and maybe there's
going to be more accessibilityand development considerations
as well. You might have to bend,crouch, stoop, crawl, and you're
(05:51):
probably going to have to wearhelmets and gloves and knee pads
and wear headlamps as well. So
Jessica Bowser (06:00):
for this episode, we're going to focus on
the Ranger led caving programsthat are available in our state
parks. But I also just wanted topoint out that listeners can
find the Virginia cave and karsttrail that has more than 20
stops, including wild caveshowcase and other features on
the DCR website, and I will dropa link to that in the show
notes. So if people are lookingfor other opportunities outside
(06:23):
of state parks, they'll have alist available that they can
visit. Aaron, how many Virginiastate parks have Ranger led wild
caving programs
Unknown (06:32):
I just mentioned, natural tunnel State Park, they
do wild cave tours in theirbowling cave and panel cave, and
then, of course, New River TrailState Park, my state park, we
offer cave tours of lonash cave,and so right now, those are the
only two state parks in theVirginia state park system that
are offering cave tours. But whoknows, we might add some more in
(06:52):
the future.
Jessica Bowser (06:53):
I enjoyed the cave at new river trail because
I think it's excellent forbeginners. It's not too large
that it's overwhelming, but itstill has all the features of
wild caving. And so just like,it's like a great intro to
caving, yeah,
Unknown (07:07):
that's a really great point. That's one thing that I
like to advertise, is that ifyou've never done wild caving
before, the new river traillonash Cave is just really great
for beginners or people that areinterested in learning caving,
because it is a linear cave,there's not a lot of twists and
turns and passages. And reallythe most narrow section is the
entrance, where you might haveto crawl a little bit, but then
(07:29):
once you get into the maincavern area, you can stand
upright, and it opens up into agreat space. So if you're a bit
claustrophobic, it's just thatentrance spot that's going to be
the tightest climb.
Jessica Bowser (07:40):
Yeah, and even the entrance was not that bad at
all. I mean, when you describeit to me, I thought we were
going to be like, you know, downon hands and knees and maybe
even on our belly, squeezinginto a small space. It was not
like that at all. There's alittle bit of crawling, but it
was also wide. So you're notgoing into a really small space,
even if the ceiling is lowenough that you need to crawl a
little bit, and it's not thatlong either, so within like, a
(08:02):
minute, we were out of it. Soyeah, I don't want to deter
anybody who is claustrophobic,because I'm claustrophobic. I
don't like some of those tightspaces, and I had no problem at
all getting into this cave.
That's good
Unknown (08:14):
to hear, and I do remember you saying that. And
yeah, so it's definitely not awalking cave tour, but it's
certainly accessible to mostpeople,
Jessica Bowser (08:22):
right? And I also, after visiting new river
trail, I also got to do the twocaves at natural tunnel State
Park. And I just want to give aquick shout out to Rangers,
Lillian and Stacy, who took meon those two tours of bowling
and panel cave. And those aretwo completely different
experience as well. So even ifyou do any one of those, it's a
(08:44):
great opportunity and a greatexperience. But I would
encourage people to do allthree, because they are so
vastly different from eachother. They were completely
different, completely differentexperiences. And if you want to
see like a lot of cascadingpools, or you want to see a lot
of formations, or you want tosee a lot of salamanders, like
(09:05):
bowling cave was really cool forthat. Whereas, like panel cave
was completely different. Therewas a lot more stooping. There
was a waterfall inside thatcave. I mean, just totally
different features. I thinkpanel cave was also used during
Prohibition, so that has aninteresting history as well. So
all these caves are so uniqueand so special. And I just think
(09:26):
it's really cool that we haveaccess to
Unknown (09:27):
them. Yeah, I completely agree. I think if
anybody wants to introducethemselves to wild caving,
Virginia State Parks has threereally wonderful opportunities
for that.
Jessica Bowser (09:40):
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(11:08):
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(11:32):
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So what are the goals of theRanger led programs? I would
say,
Unknown (11:45):
in general, most of our ranger led programs, and
specifically our cave programs,we want to educate the public
about the unique fauna and floraand ecosystems and food webs of
cave adapted creatures. There'sa lot of really unique organisms
to learn about, and so I thinkoftentimes caves might be a
(12:06):
little misunderstood, or perhapspeople don't know a lot about
cave ecosystems. And so it'skind of exciting to learn about
all of these unique featuresthat make them so special.
Another thing that we try toreally focus on in our ranger
led programs is, of course,conservation messaging, so
talking about how to responsiblyrecreate and leave no trace, and
just also why these resourcesneed to be protected for future
(12:30):
generations. And we always tryto tie that messaging in,
because, in essence, that's whatwe do as public programmers. And
of course, recreationopportunities, like I said,
there's always something foreveryone in Virginia state
parks. And so once again, justoffering unique recreation
opportunities for the public.
Jessica Bowser (12:47):
Can you talk us through a typical Ranger led
program at new river trail? We
Unknown (12:52):
limit the group size to 12 individuals, and we do have
to travel down the trail, so weall hop in a van and we have all
of our caving gear, and so youwill need helmets and headlamps,
knee pads and gloves. Onceeverybody gets geared up, we hop
in the van and we drive down thetrail. It's probably about a 15
to 20 minute drive. It's not ashort drive to the cave
(13:15):
entrance. But what's reallygreat is that you almost get a
mini Park tour on the way. Wepoint out cultural and
historical points of interestalong the trail, and we also
point out some maybe perhapsunique geologic formations and
flora and fauna along the way,and we talk about the park
history. So you do get a miniPark tour along the way. Once we
(13:35):
get to the cave, we just talkabout what to expect and all of
the kind of rules and policiesto follow once we're in there,
but then the fun starts once wego through the entrance in the
cave, it opens up into our mainroom, and that's where there's
some really unique features. Sothere's hydrophobic bacteria
that forms a biofilm mat, and itsparkles, and we call it the
(13:57):
starlight room, because it kindof looks like there's
constellations that are glowingon the cave ceiling. And so
that's probably one of the mostnotable features, right when you
walk in. Another reallyinteresting feature that we
offer in our cave tours is welike to talk about the Twilight
Zone, so where the light is justpermeating the entrance of the
cave, but we also go down intothe Dark Zone, and so that's
(14:20):
where there's no lightwhatsoever. And we do a lights
out activity where we turn ourheadlamps off. We all get really
quiet, unless it's with theschool group. It's impossible
for everyone to be quiet, but wetry, we try. And so we turn the
headlights off, and then we justtake a deep breath, and it's
almost meditative, and you canhear water dripping inside the
(14:41):
cave, and just have a moment ofsilence and just experience pure
darkness. And then once thatmoment's over, we walk back up
into the main room, and then wetalk about some of the unique
cave formations, likestalactites and stalagmites. And
then we go up. Proper area ofthe cave, and it's probably
(15:02):
about, I want to say, maybe,about 100 feet worth of
climbing. So you'll probablyneed about three points of
contact moving up into the cave.
And then, of course, you knowhow you can look at clouds in
the sky, and you can pick outanimals in the clouds. Well,
there's also cave rocks. Somelook like elephants or turtles
or dragons, and so we like topoint out those fun formations
(15:24):
as well. And then, of course,along the way, we're looking for
different cave organisms. So wemight find bats or crickets,
salamanders, and maybe evenisopods or cave shrimp, cave
beetles, things like that. Ourtour, it lasts about an hour
overall. And I would say, youknow, once again, it's a really
(15:47):
great introduction to wildcaving, and it's a great
beginner cave.
Jessica Bowser (15:51):
I think we saw all of those organisms when we
were together, didn't we like?
We saw bats right at theentrance. I think there were two
of them we saw in a puddle onthe floor near the entrance, the
isopods and the little shrimpthat some were walking and some
were swimming. And I thoughtthat was absolutely fascinating.
And then somebody else in thegroup found, I guess, baby
salamanders, like in a puddle upin the higher part of the cave.
(16:15):
Oh yeah, that's
Unknown (16:17):
right, we did find some salamander larva, which was
interesting. And we saw some bigbrown bats and tri colored bats
as well. Oh,
Jessica Bowser (16:26):
see, I don't, I didn't even remember that they
were different species. I justwas. I was so amazed at the fact
that they were letting us passby, and they didn't seem to be
bothered. They just keptsleeping. And I was also
surprised at how small theywere. They're just, they're
only, like, a couple inches big,I know. Yeah,
Unknown (16:43):
they're really tiny, and yeah, they don't seem to
mind us. Now we do have a prettyconservative timeline when it
comes to recreating, and so whennatural heritage or other
biologists or groups come in todo population counts, they can
come typically when we wouldhave the cave closed for
recreation, and that's just tobe sensitive to the bats and
(17:05):
other species, and so typically,our cave programs run from
Memorial Day to Labor Day, sofrom May until September, and
that just makes it so that we'renot negatively impacting the
wildlife while they're the mostsensitive in their hibernation.
Jessica Bowser (17:21):
That makes really good sense. Are there any
risks to entering a cave? And ifso, how does the part mitigate
Unknown (17:27):
them? Oh, sure, there are plenty of risks to entering
a cave. Luckily, our staff istrained in cave safety, but you
know, you can fall in a cave.
Rocks can fall on you. There'shypothermia, and, you know, in
very extreme cases, there'stoxic gasses, but we don't have
to worry about that in ourparks. That's for very deep
caves where the air qualitychanges at certain depths. But I
(17:49):
would say, yeah, so hypothermia,you know, our caves, year round
stay about 54 degrees inside thecave. So it's really nice when
we do summer programs, becauseyou get in the cave and you're
like, Oh, this is nature's airconditioning. It feels really
good. But if you were stuck in acave, or perhaps you were there
for longer than you hadoriginally anticipated, and
(18:11):
especially if you're sitting ona cold rock, that cold rock is
going to steal your body heatfrom you, and so if you're in a
cave for prolonged period oftime, there is a risk of
hypothermia, but some of theways that you can mitigate these
risks is first of all training.
So make sure that you're trainedin cave safety, you're trained
(18:32):
in the appropriate gear, you'retrained in the appropriate
techniques of being in a cave,also bringing the correct
equipment, making sure that youhave headlamps, but also backup
batteries, backup light sourcesthat you bring layers to prevent
hypothermia from sticking in. Soespecially if you start
sweating, you can also get coldpretty quickly, making sure that
(18:53):
you have the proper equipment torecreate safely, and then also
just having a level of awarenessaround you. So once again, rocks
can fall. And so just seeingwhere there's maybe a ledge or
perhaps there's unstable ground,so just making sure that you're
aware of your surroundings,
Jessica Bowser (19:09):
I forgot to ask you if any wildlife that can be
found in our caves are rare orprotected.
Unknown (19:16):
Yeah, well, that's kind of going back to when we were in
the cave. We did see somespecies that were pretty rare.
There are some cave beetles thatare found just from a single
cave, and they're found nowhereelse. Some researchers, and even
our Virginia natural heritageteam believe that many of these
species, they share a broadlydistributed surface ancestor
(19:38):
that's adapted to the caveenvironment. So it's really
interesting. Some of these cavebeetles, they're eyeless, or
maybe they lack pigment, sothey're specifically adapted for
that cave environment. You know,that's really unique. There's
species that are still beingdiscovered right now in our
state parks that are foundnowhere else. And so yes, there
are some very unique caveadapted i. The pods and
(20:01):
pseudoscorpions and beetles andthings like that in our caves.
And then, of course, there'salso the tri colored bats, which
are not currently federallylisted as endangered, but I
believe that it might be listedas federally endangered, but I'm
happy to say that researchersand scientists have seen their
populations bounce back tohealthy numbers, and so they may
(20:23):
not be listed after all, whichis a good sign.
Jessica Bowser (20:25):
How interesting.
So knowing that some of thesespecies are really unique, some
are rare, why do we need to bemindful of Leave No Trace and
protecting delicate caveecosystems? Oh,
Unknown (20:39):
I love this question once again, you know, part of
our ranger led programs, wedefinitely tie in a conservation
message to all of ourprogramming. It's as simple as
minimizing human impact and justensuring that our caves, they
remain these pristineenvironments for future
generations. And I would saythat's even the mission of state
(20:59):
parks in Virginia is to makesure that we are protecting
these resources for futuregenerations. So if you know my
child or someone's child comesback 20 years from now, it
doesn't look any different. Andso in order to do that, we have
to minimize our impact, and wecan do that by leaving no trace
(21:21):
and making sure that, you know,we plan ahead and prepare we
dispose of our waste properly.
We respect wildlife. You know,we leave what we find. We're not
taking artifacts or rocks or anytype of wildlife home with us.
Also that we don't vandalizecaves, because some people do
like to graffiti caves. And I'msure you saw when you were at
(21:42):
natural tunnel, there's actuallyhistoric graffiti in the caves
too,
Jessica Bowser (21:47):
yeah. And that's what I think is so interesting
about it, because usually when Isee damage done in caves, it's
because somebody had fires,because they were camping inside
the cave, or they've written onthe walls. And now some of that
stuff is considered historic.
And so, like, we were, I justremember having this whole
conversation about, like, what'strash versus what's historic
artifacts? So, like, a beer canfrom 50 years ago could be
(22:11):
historic, whereas, like a beercan from last week is trash. So
it's like, I just think it'sreally interesting,
Unknown (22:21):
yeah. So I think that's also something that's important
too. Is like, if there's anymodern trash in the cave, we
really want to make sure toeradicate it from the cave
environment, because I believeit's after a 50 year time
period, it is consideredhistoric and so we don't want
any historic trash. But I willsay that it is kind of a finicky
or tricky balance with removinggraffiti or anything of that
(22:44):
nature, because you also don'twant to impact the cave
ecosystem or the environment. Soif you use any sort of cleaning
solutions, or you're scrubbingthe surface, you could also
negatively impact the surface ofthe cave. And so it is a
delicate balance of conservationin the caves.
Jessica Bowser (23:02):
And another thing that you pointed out when
we were in the cave was microplastics, and that really
surprised me. I was notexpecting to see it. I also
would not have known what it wasif you hadn't pointed it out to
me. But once we, like, startedlooking really closely, you were
able to pick out not just theplastic, but like pieces of
fabric that had been washedthrough the cave. Do you want to
(23:24):
talk a little bit about that?
Unknown (23:26):
Yeah, I was actually introduced to this concept from
a Virginia cave board member.
They had shown a UV light on thecave wall, and it glowed, and it
lit up, and you could see tinylittle fibers and pieces of
fabric on the cave wall, and Iwas really shocked to learn that
those were micro plastics. It'sfrom fabric from our clothes.
It's from the environment. Comesfrom things like surface runoff
(23:48):
or atmospheric depositions oreven human activities inside the
cave. But it was just apparent,like how widespread it was when
you shine the UV light on thecave wall, so it really starts
to paint a picture of the humanimpact when we're recreating in
these spaces, and just how muchmicro plastics are actually
(24:10):
everywhere. It's a littleshocking. But once again, we
kind of turn that intoconservation messaging as well.
And just saying, you know, let'stry to minimize our impact as
much as possible, and, you know,try to reduce the amount of
litter or microplastics that arein our immediate environment.
Jessica Bowser (24:29):
Tune in next week for part two of this
episode, when Ranger Aarondescribes unique features and
formations you can experience inthe underground memorable wild
caving adventures and how toregister for an upcoming Ranger
led program Virginia OutdoorAdventures is inspired by and
supported by listeners like you,which is why your messages and
(24:53):
feedback means so much to me.
You can text me directly byclicking on Send Jessica a text
message in your show. Notes, Ianswer questions, respond to
comments and share your feedbackon the show. Never miss a new
episode. Sign up for my emailnewsletter and receive my
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(25:15):
listeners. Click on newsletter.
Sign up in your show notes orvisit Virginia outdoor
adventures.com thanks forlistening until next time
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