Could your outdoor adventure turn into a survival situation? In this eye-opening conversation with wilderness expert Tim MacWelch of Advanced Survival Training, we dive into the essential skills and knowledge that could mean the difference between life and death when venturing into Virginia's beautiful but sometimes unforgiving wilderness.
Tim shares critical insights about why even experienced hikers and outdoor enthusiasts can find themselves in trouble, including unexpected weather changes, injuries, becoming lost, or accidents that can escalate quickly.
The conversation takes a practical turn as Tim addresses listener questions about survival priorities that help you focus on what matters most in an emergency.
Whether you're a casual day hiker or seasoned adventurer, this conversation delivers practical wisdom that makes the outdoors safer for everyone. Let’s Go!
Join us next week for part 2 when Tim answers more of your questions about wilderness survival skills, such as how to find shelter and make a fire, and snake bite care. You won’t want to miss an exciting giveaway Tim is offering my listeners.
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Episode 34. Foraging for Wild Edible Plants
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Bowser (00:00):
From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the
Chesapeake Bay, Virginia is amecca for outdoor travel and
adventure. Virginia outdooradventures Podcast is your local
guide for hiking, camping,kayaking, travel and so much
more. Get the information andthe inspiration to plan your own
adventure right here inVirginia, I'm your host. Jessica
(00:23):
Bowser, could your outdooradventure turn into a survival
situation? In this eye openingconversation with wilderness
expert Tim mcwelch of advancedsurvival training, we dive into
the essential skills andknowledge that could mean the
difference between life anddeath when venturing into
Virginia's beautiful butsometimes unforgiving
(00:45):
wilderness, Tim shares criticalinsights about why even
experienced hikers and outdoorenthusiasts can find themselves
in trouble, including unexpectedweather changes, injuries
becoming lost, or accidents thatcan escalate quickly. The
conversation takes a practicalturn as Tim addresses listener
questions about survivalpriorities that help you focus
(01:07):
on what matters most in anemergency, whether you're a
casual day hiker or seasonedadventurer, this conversation
delivers practical wisdom thatmakes the outdoors safer for
everyone. Let's go VirginiaOutdoor Adventures is sponsored
by the Virginia association forparks, V, A, F, P champions
(01:29):
parks across the Commonwealth.
Registration for the annualconference is now live. Join us
may 1 through fourth atoccaneechi State Park. This
year's conference will feature atour of Staunton river
battlefield State Park, a guidedpaddle program at occaneechi,
perfect for those working onpaddle quest, and a special dark
sky program at Stanton RiverState Park, plus special guests
(01:51):
and speakers, workshops andpanel discussions, meals and
lodging provided, plus plenty ofopportunities for conviviality
around the campfire with likeminded Park enthusiasts.
Register for the VA FP annualconference today by clicking on
Virginia association for parksin the show notes of your
listening app. Tim, welcome backto Virginia outdoor adventures.
(02:16):
Hi, Jessica, thank you forhaving me back. I'm so excited
to have you back, because you'vebeen a guest before in Episode
34 which was in season three,and that was an episode about
foraging for wild edible plants,and it was such a popular
episode that I thought it wouldbe fantastic to have you back
again to cover a new topic.
(02:38):
That's great. I'm pleased, verypleased. So what do you love
about Virginia's outdoors? Ihave
Unknown (02:43):
to, I have to say the forests. That's the thing that
that we just don't have anywhereelse in the country, not quite
like the forest in Virginia.
Other places, they've gotbeautiful landscapes that are
that are similar. But this is,this is my home. This is where I
grew up. And so there's justnothing else that looks quite
like this. I
Jessica Bowser (03:04):
totally agree, Tim, should we jump right into
the first listener question?
Absolutely So, just so thateverybody knows, I did solicit
listener questions for thisepisode, and this was a topic
that was highly requested bysome of my listeners, especially
on my listener survey, and Iasked people what exactly they
wanted to know, because I didn'twant to guess. I wanted to make
(03:26):
sure that we covered all thethings that people were
interested in. So let's go aheadand jump into the first
question. And this is from myfriend Kevin in Leesburg. And I
will just preface this by sayingthat he was being sarcastic when
he said this, but I threw it inhere anyway, because I actually
know, and you know that thereare some people who think this.
So he said, do you even needsurvival skills? We have
(03:48):
smartphones and cars.
Unknown (03:52):
You don't actually need them. Kevin, you specifically,
yeah, just stay home. You canjust order food on GrubHub.
Maybe get a job where you workremotely, find yourself the
mother of your children on somekind of dating app. I'm sure
there's somebody within fivemiles. So, yeah, you don't
actually have to have any sortof outdoor skills. But the
(04:12):
average person who might want togo to the park, once in a while,
take a camping trip, gobackpacking, go kayaking, you
know, just have some kind ofoutdoor adventure, they actually
should have some wildernesssurvival skills, just in case.
What
Jessica Bowser (04:27):
situations might someone encounter that would
require survival skills?
Unknown (04:31):
You know, one of the biggest reasons the search and
rescue gets called out forsomeone who's having trouble in
the outdoors is the scenariowhere that person has gotten
lost, and then a close second issomeone who's having some kind
of medical emergency, and thiscould be an injury, or it could
be some medical event that theydidn't get the memo that today
(04:53):
was going to be stroke day orheart attack day, or, you know,
some other major medical crisis.
But. Between these two, betweengetting lost or having some kind
of medical issue. You know,these are the things that can
that can happen to anybody whenwe go out into the outdoors.
What about weather
Jessica Bowser (05:12):
changes? Those situations arise too Absolutely.
Unknown (05:15):
So that's one of those areas that can kind of kind of
straddle the issue of having amedical crisis. So if the
weather turned colder, if theweather got wet, even if we knew
where we were, even if we werenot physically harmed, we could
still start to drift intohypothermia by getting cold, by
(05:36):
getting wet, by having the windblow on us, and if we're not
dressed for that, then we couldgo into hypothermic shock, and
now we're back to having amedical crisis. So yeah, weather
plays a huge role, and mostpeople don't understand that
mountains make their ownweather. And so whatever the
prediction was for that day thatmight have been at a lower
elevation, and you go up on amountain, and it could be a very
(05:59):
different set of weatherpatterns that day.
Jessica Bowser (06:01):
Yes, I can't tell you how many times I've
experienced that myself, but youlearn as you go that you just
need to be prepared, becausesomething can change. Like you
said, you think it's going to beone thing. And then you get up
there, I can't tell you how manytimes I've left the house and
the weather is beautiful, andthen I get to the mountain, I
step out of my car and it'sfreezing and it's like, July,
yeah,
Unknown (06:22):
this is the thing that will sucker punch somebody who
is not experienced, you know,they're not familiar with with
the different regions, you know,within our state, just how
different these, these microclimates, and how different
elevation can make the weather.
Jessica Bowser (06:38):
What are the key preventative measures someone
should take before headingoutside, including what to pack.
Unknown (06:44):
One of the biggest things people should do before
they go on any outdoor excursionis to form a plan for that
outing. You know you want to youwant to plan out where you're
going, what your route is goingto be, what you're doing when
you're coming back, which caryou're taking, where that car
should be parked. Just figureout all these little details.
(07:04):
Study a map, you know, and justjust get all that figured out,
and then tell somebody exactlywhat your plans are. And this
should be somebody responsibleback home who would act as your
safety net. So in the event thatyou do go out there and you get
turned around, or you do go outthere and you're just having a
bad luck day, you know, that'sthe day that that you were going
(07:27):
to have a medical emergency, andyou didn't know it. You didn't
get the memo. So you go outthere and you run into trouble,
and if you're not back on time,if you don't call and check in
at the predetermined time, thenyour safety net person back home
can reach out to maybe the localpark. You know, a lot of parks
have have a law enforcementofficer, and they've got a
(07:49):
hotline that you can call 24hours a day, and so, you know,
let's say, for example, somebodygot lost at a local state park.
You know, there's going to be aphone number that you could call
if your friend went hiking inthat park and did not come home,
and their car is still in theparking lot, and you know,
they're not answering their cellphone, and there are resources,
(08:09):
so it's very important to knowwhat those resources are, and
provide that specific phonenumber to your safety net person
who's watching out for you backhome. I
Jessica Bowser (08:18):
think this is a good time to mention that I have
taken a couple of your coursesbefore, and I just recently took
one of your bushcraft crashcourses. And you were telling
the group during that coursethat the phone number that your
person at home should be callingshould not be the local police,
right? And do you want toexplain why that is? Yeah,
Unknown (08:38):
that's That's right.
So, movies, television shows,they've trained us that if
anything goes south, you dial911, here in America, and you
know, you say, I'd like toreport a missing person, please.
So that's a big no no if we'retrying to help somebody who's
gotten lost in the woods or orhaving some kind of medical
event out in the woods, amissing persons case presented
to law enforcement, just thenormal police department or
(09:02):
Sheriff's Department. This isnot going to get much attention,
and probably nothing's going tohappen for 48 hours. A lot can
happen in 48 hours. Somebodycould die of hypothermia in a
few hours, if the weather is is,you know, turning colder,
getting wet, getting windy, andso this is not the outcome that
(09:22):
we we want to, want to create.
So by calling that park number,that park emergency phone
number, you might get a lawenforcement officer who is at
that park, or park rangers whoare at that park, and then they
can get search and rescueactivated sometimes within an
hour, and most search and rescuecases have a happy ending, and
(09:46):
they are resolved within 12hours here in the United States.
And so by calling the rightnumber and using the right
language. So just to recap, wedon't dial 911, and we don't use
the M word missing. Or we don'tsay that word we call the park,
or whatever authority governsthe area that that person was
(10:07):
going to. And we say that weneed to report a lost use the L
word lost hiker, lost camp orlost backpacker. Now, things can
get set in motion at a muchfaster speed,
Jessica Bowser (10:24):
with campgrounds open and warmer temperatures on
the horizon, Virginia StateParks is launching its spring
interpretive programs offeringvisitors of all ages the
opportunity to explore thenatural and cultural wonders of
Virginia. The diverseprogramming is designed to
inspire curiosity, fosterenvironmental stewardship and
(10:46):
provide enriching outdoorexperiences for families,
students and nature enthusiastsalike. Highlights include flora
and fauna programs, learn aboutVirginia's native species
through up close encounters andexpert talks, historical and
cultural tours, step back intime with interpretive walks and
hands on history lessons,outdoor skills workshops, gain
(11:09):
valuable knowledge on topicslike archery, camping, fishing,
kayaking, backpacking and more,Junior Ranger adventures, fun
and educational activitiesdesigned to engage young
explorers, citizen scienceinitiatives, participate in real
world research projects thatcontribute to conservation
efforts, self guided programs,explore at your own pace with
(11:32):
geocaching, discovery,backpacks, photo scavenger
hunts, stargazing, treeidentification, birding and
more. Join us at Virginia StateParks for exciting, family
friendly events that invite youto explore the outdoors. For a
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program details, click onVirginia State Parks spring
(11:55):
interpretive programs in yourshow notes. Tim, what should
people have in their pack asthey prepare to go out. So
Unknown (12:03):
your basic supplies for anybody, even for like a one
hour hike, they should cover youif you were stuck out there
overnight. And so these aregoing to be items that would
provide warmth if the weatherturns cold, things that would
protect you from rain, if, ifthat weather pattern moves in,
you'll need methods of signalingfor help, because that's your
(12:25):
tool to help search and rescueto help you. We want to help the
people who are trying to helpus. And so this could be
something very simple, likesignal whistle, just a brightly
colored, very loud signalwhistle. And then the items for
shelter could be something likeponcho, a space blanket would be
an excellent choice, becausethat's going to help keep us
warm and knock off the wind andthe rain that are trying to
(12:47):
trying to steal our body heat.
We want to have just a few fooditems, some high calorie food
water to drink, maybe some waterdisinfection tablets, which
would allow us to resupply ourwater. So we could have a one
quart bottle and some of thosepurification tablets, and now we
can have many days worth ofwater, and it's, you know,
something that can pack downvery small in a survival kit,
(13:09):
and so just a few basic itemscan make the difference in an
outdoor emergency.
Jessica Bowser (13:17):
Let's jump into our second listener question.
This is from Cindy, whosubmitted her question on
Instagram. And Cindy would liketo know, what should I have in
my first aid kits I have gottenlost or, as I say, turned around
in the forest. So
Unknown (13:32):
yeah, first aid, this is something that I often get on
a soapbox and rant about alittle bit in my survival
classes here in Virginia.
Survival is something that has alot of facets to it, and one of
the biggest and most importantfacets of it is first aid. I
tell my students all the time,first aid is the most likely
survival skill you will ever usein your entire life, and you
(13:56):
probably aren't even going toneed it out in the woods. You
might need to perform first aidat home on a loved one. You
might need it at work, you mightneed it driving down the road,
you might need it on vacation.
You never know when you're goingto need first aid skills. And
there's such a wide range ofskills that we could acquire.
You know, you're a living humanperson walking around in a
living, breathing body. Don'tyou think you need to know how
(14:18):
to patch it up, maybe take careof the people around you that
you claim to care about, but youstill refuse to go get a first
aid class. Do you really evencare? First Aid has two facets
to it. For us as people who arepracticing wilderness survival
skills, the first facet ishaving the stuff. It's really
hard to do first aid withoutfirst aid supplies, it can be
(14:40):
done. It's just harder, takeslonger. So the first part is the
stuff, and the second part isthe skills. So we need to be
able to have both of those. Thestuff is great, but it's not
independent of the skills. Weneed to know the skills to use
the stuff. And then the skillsare great, but it would. Take
forever to to fabricate atourniquet. You know, if someone
(15:03):
needs a tourniquet, you don'thave time to cobble together a
tourniquet with a branch andyour belt and, you know, and
whatever other junk you you canput together. Like, if someone
needs a tourniquet, they need iton them in less than 30 seconds.
Like, it's going to take youthat long to just even find a
stick that's not going to break.
So I recommend having both ofthose hemispheres covered in
first aid, both the skillslearned in a hands on fashion
(15:25):
and the stuff, the rightequipment, the right supplies,
the right resources in a medicalkit that you can dig into
easily, and even something thatsomeone else could dig into and
find the things they need. Somaybe someone else uses your
first aid kit on you. It'simpossible to predict how that
kit will get used, but I willtell you this, first aid is the
(15:49):
most likely survival skillanybody's ever going to use. And
so to that end, in our kit, wewant to have the usual stuff for
the everyday boo boos. So wewant the band aids. We want some
Neosporin. We want some burngel. We want some anti age
cream, you know, just the basicstuff for the cut, scrape,
scratches, burns, blisters,these types of everyday injuries
(16:09):
and just minor things. But wealso need to be ready for a more
serious medical emergency, andthat's when we need the
dressings, the bandages, thegauze, put a tourniquet in there
and put it on top. I always puttourniquets on top of my first
aid supplies, because that's theone that I would need the
(16:30):
fastest. And thank god I'venever had to put one on anybody
outside of practice situations.
But if we need it, we need it inseconds, not, you know, dig
through the bag and try to findit at the bottom. And I also
like to have a headlamp in myfirst aid kit. I don't want that
right on top, because if someonegets hurt after dark, myself or
(16:53):
somebody that I'm with, I needto be able to see to assess that
injury and perform first aid.
And I don't need to be diggingthrough the bag trying to find
the headlamp, either. So theheadlamp and the tourniquet go
on top in a large pouch in mymedical bag. And then other
pouches will have the Boo Boostuff. And then other pouches
will have some simple over thecounter meds. And then other
parts of the kit will have thebandages, the dressings, the
(17:17):
gauze, the medical tape, thingslike that, that I could, you
know, use to patch up a biggerinjury and other things, you
know, a triangle bandage is veryversatile. So I can use that to
create an arm sling. If someonehas hurt their elbow or
shoulder. I can use that to makea tourniquet if I had to, you
(17:38):
know, if I needed to somebody'shaving a bad day if I need to
roll out two tourniquets. Butit's not unheard of, and so some
versatile piece of equipment,like a triangle bandage, can
serve a lot of different roles,and this is just the beginning.
These are just a few of the topitems. You could buy a first aid
kit, or you could assemble itpiece by piece on your own. I
(17:58):
would just recommend that youdon't cut corners on price. You
will get what you pay for if youbuy some knockoff tourniquet,
it's probably going to crackinto pieces when you're trying
to use it.
Jessica Bowser (18:13):
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(18:56):
your show notes for the linkduring the Bush craft course you
were talking about the need tounderstand or remember the rule
of threes. Can you explain whatthat is?
Unknown (19:08):
Yeah, thank you for asking. I love the rule of
threes. A lot of people don'treally understand where to start
when it comes to wildernesssurvival or any other genre of
survival. The rule of threesgives us an easy to understand
and easy to use framework. It'slike a set of hooks that we can
hang things on. It's like a setof boxes that we can place
(19:29):
things in. And so the rule ofthrees dictates that we have
three minutes to live withoutair. We have three hours to live
out in the cold. If we have air,we have three days to live
without water. If we haveshelter and air, we have three
weeks to live without food. Ifwe have water, shelter and air,
(19:53):
and so at its core, the rule ofthrees is showing you how long
you have to live in increment.
Of time. Now, of course, this isa gross generalization. You
know, you might live more thanthree minutes without air.
People that have been underwaterin situations where they fell
through the ice and drowned inin near freezing water, they
have been revived after 40minutes, 50 minutes after an
(20:16):
hour in rare cases, and peoplemight live for many days without
drinking water. There arestories of people living over a
week without drinking water, butin general, the average person
is going to last about threedays without drinking water. And
so there are always wildextremes to these spans of time
that a person can live withoutbasic essentials, but in
(20:40):
general, three minutes withoutair, three hours without
shelter, three days withoutwater, three weeks without food.
And so that shows us whichsurvival resources are more
important in a short termsituation, and then which ones
become more important in a longterm situation. So for your
typical 72 hour survivalscenario. And a lot of people
(21:02):
base their survival kit andtheir training off of the idea
that they would be rescuedwithin three days, or 72 hours.
And so we would absolutely needair, and that's a freebie, thank
God, unless there's an avalancheor or some other, you know,
horrible situation. We got freeair. So that one's a that one's
one that we don't have to fightfor, but the shelter and the
(21:25):
water, those are things that wewe have to have within a couple
of days. And what's notaccounted for in the rule of
threes is medical emergencies.
And so that one can just sneakin and hit us wherever maybe
we've got, you know, theexsanguinating hemorrhage. We've
got that massive bleed. Weslipped in some mud and a broken
(21:47):
piece of glass was sticking up,and it slashed our arm. That
happened to a friend of mine,and he almost died out in the
woods. He would just hike italong, and slipped on some mud,
and there was a little jaggedpiece of a broken bottle, and
hit it, laid his arm open fromfrom wrist to elbow. And so he
had to improvise a binding outof his T shirt and and use
(22:09):
physical pressure, you know, useuse a pressure point to help to
control the bleeding and elevatethe wound and, and, you know,
very carefully try to get backto camp before he passed out
there. He did not have the stuffto do first aid, but he did have
the skills, and so ideally, wewant to have the stuff and the
(22:29):
skills. You know, sometimes youjust don't have what you need.
Jessica Bowser (22:32):
What an interesting example of how you
think that just going for a hikecould not cause an issue, right?
I'm sure he was an experiencedhiker, and that seems like a
freak accident, but it can stillhappen,
Unknown (22:43):
absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's, it truly is a freak
accident. There's a book calleddeath at Yosemite, and it
chronicles all the justridiculously simple ways that
people have lost their liveswithin that park since it
opened. And it's just sillythings. You know, somebody might
have dropped a camera at anoverlook, and then they they
tried to climb down and get itbecause it was sitting on a
(23:05):
ledge, and then they couldn'tget back up and froze to death
on a ledge just a few feet awayfrom where they parked their car
at the Overlook. You know,they're just story after story
like that. And so if we think,Oh, nothing bad will ever happen
to me, you know, if I go in thepark, if I go out in the woods,
odds odds are it won't, butevery once in a while somebody
does, unfortunately beat theodds. Well, from
Jessica Bowser (23:27):
here on out, I think I'd like to just focus on
listener questions. I think wedid a good intro here with some
basic information for people toprepare before they go out. But
I want to focus on some of theselistener questions. So the first
one is from Patty, who lives inHenrico, and she says, I
sometimes think twice abouthiking in a new location because
(23:48):
I'm nervous about getting lost.
What would you recommend andwhat should I do if I become
lost? Jessica,
Unknown (23:54):
all of the questions you got from our listeners are
excellent. These are all amazingquestions and and I really
appreciate this, this questionfrom Patty, a lot of people
don't take that first step to goto a new place, you know, and
you don't know what you'remissing if you don't go there,
and it can be a little scary.
And so I would highly recommendfor patty and everybody else
(24:16):
that you find a buddy, findyourself a hiking buddy that you
can do. You can go someplace newwith. You know, there's there's
strength in numbers. Weinstinctively know this as a
species, and two heads arebetter than one. So if you go in
there and you're trying tofigure out, you know which way
to go, then then two peoplemight be able to get unconfused
together. But before you go geta map of that new park that you
(24:41):
want to go check out, you andyour hiking buddy can study that
map, figure out what's on theedges of that map. That Park is
not infinite, like you are notgoing to hike out of that park
onto another planet. That Parkhas finite borders, and so
figure out what they are. Ifthere's a road to the south of
the park, and if there's a riveron the west side of the park,
(25:03):
and if those are the boundaries.
And then if maybe in the northof the park there's, there's a
mountain or something. If we canfigure out what these boundaries
are, what these geologicalfeatures are and man made
features, then we can use thoseto to kind of box ourselves in.
And so you know, if you hikeinto the park heading north, and
(25:24):
you bring your map with you, andyou bring a compass, then to get
out of said Park, we would goquestion mark. Where do we go?
We hike in North. Where do wewhere do we go? To get out, we
hike south, right? And so byjust taking the time to study a
map and learn the lay of theland and figure out kind of
(25:44):
where the boundaries are, and wecan use those as a handrail if
we get lost, but we hit thatriver, and if we paid attention
to which way the river flows,and you know where it's going to
cross the road, we would haveenough knowledge to self rescue.
You know, we could, we could wecould get Unturned around. You
know, it's so easy to getconfused and get turned around
out there, especially if you gooff trail, but you can, you can
(26:06):
also self rescue. You can figureout where you are, even without
advanced land navigation skills.
I feel
Jessica Bowser (26:13):
like there's so many stories out there of people
getting lost and maybe even notmaking it, and when they're
discovered, they're like, a fewfeet from the trail right? Like,
if you don't know where you are,it doesn't matter how close you
are to the trail, you're stilllost.
Unknown (26:26):
Yeah, and there, there's just, there's so many of
those stories. There's too many.
It's a tragic amount of storieslike that. And so this is a
scenario with a fix. You know,if we had a compass, even just
with a compass, if we were ableto pick a bearing, any bearing,
and walk in a straight line,eventually we would hit
something on the east coasthere, especially in Virginia.
(26:48):
And there's an old joke like, ifyou get lost in the woods, just
sit down, because, you know,they'll build a 711 or a Walmart
or something right next to you,just really soon, and there's
stuff everywhere, like, youreally aren't in the deep
wilderness. If we went up to,like, you know, Northern Ontario
and and, you know, went out inthe wilderness, there we might
(27:09):
be hundreds of miles from anyman made feature or
civilization. And so, you know,that could be out in the middle
of nowhere, but here inVirginia, or really, most places
within the lower 48 there areplenty of features that we can
find and follow, power lines,roads, rivers. There are
features, you know, that are manmade and natural that we could
(27:32):
use as some kind of guide toself rescue and get back to
civilization. All
Jessica Bowser (27:40):
right. The next two questions are both about
water, but they're verydifferent questions. The first
one is from Kevin in Salem, andhe says, I carry water
purification tablets in my pack,but I'm unsure how to find water
if I need it, especially indrier months.
Unknown (27:55):
The dry months can be tricky, so once we get into July
and August and and even earlySeptember, before the fall rains
come the back country can bevery dry still. If we go
downhill. Across most of theplanet, if we go downhill, seek
a lower elevation, there will bepoints where springs are popping
up. There is available water atthe surface. And so if we if we
(28:19):
follow different waterways anddifferent drainages downhill
we're going to hit watereventually we just have to go
far enough to find it. And so,yeah, definitely keep those
purification tablets Kevin andand also, it's a use it or lose
it product. So keep theexpiration date in mind. So the
chlorine based products oftenlast two years, maybe less. And
(28:43):
iodine based water purificationtablets are only good for a
year, so make sure you replenishthose periodically, just so you
have that resource. I'm
Jessica Bowser (28:51):
glad you said that. I'm going to go check my
tablets as soon as we get offthis recording. Yeah,
Unknown (28:57):
check the dates, the water purification stuff, and
some of your first aid supplies,and, of course, your food, are
all going to be things thatyou'd want to, you know, cycle
through. You'd want to use itperiodically and replenish it
with something fresh, good
Jessica Bowser (29:12):
to know. And the next question about water comes
from Chrissy, who lives inChesapeake, and she says, the
water where I live in theTidewater region is salty. What
should I do if I'm stranded andneed water where fresh water
isn't available?
Unknown (29:25):
Chrissy has got the opposite problem, Water, water
everywhere and Not a Drop toDrink. So we are not built to
drink salt water. Human beingscannot drink salt water. It's
something that is kind ofconfusing, because we need salt,
we need sodium as a nutrient,and we need water, and salt
water gives you both, but givesyou too much sodium. This is
(29:47):
going to affect the electrolytesin your body, especially the
electrolytes in your brain. Andyou will go crazy, you will go
absolutely stark raving mad, andyou're also dehydrating your
body at the cellular. Level,because the salt is going to
require water from your cells tobe able to be processed. So it's
really a lose lose scenario. Sofor somebody in a coastal area
(30:11):
where the water even tastesslightly salty, so either full
on salt water, which is 3% salt,or brackish water, which is a
mixture of fresh and salt waterin that area. If the water even
tastes slightly salty, we shouldnot consume it. So the
alternative is to find some kindof spring or stream of fresh
water that's pouring into thelarger body of water. So try to
(30:33):
find a river dumping into thebay, or a stream dumping into
the river, or a spring dumpinginto a stream, or wait for rain,
but you could die of thirstwaiting for rain in a dry
season. Another option would beto dig for shallow pits in sand
dune areas and see what wateryou can find there. Sometimes
(30:56):
sand dune areas will trap rainwater, so the rain will fall
there, and it will go down intothe sand, and it won't
evaporate. And sometimes youwill have a layer of fresh water
on top of the salt water underthe sand. But we can't dig too
deep, you know, it's hit andmiss, but we would have to dig
basically a little well andtaste the water for salt.
Jessica Bowser (31:19):
Okay, so the next question is from Dakota,
and she sent this question in onInstagram. She said, I took a
foraging class once so I couldlearn to identify plants I can
eat, but I don't think it wouldbe enough to hold me over in an
emergency or for several days.
How else can I find foodforaging?
Unknown (31:37):
You know, that's what we had our previous episode
about, yeah, and there's alwayssomething to eat. Wherever you
are in the wild, there's alwayssome kind of wild food. The
problem is, it may not beenough. Many seasons out of the
year, the wild edibles are lowcalorie food items. So even
something like berries,raspberries and blackberries,
(31:57):
they're 50 or 60 calories pereight ounce cup, an eight ounce
cup of berries, like, that's oneserving. So let's, let's run the
math. How many cups of berries,Jessica, do you have to eat to
get 2000 calories from justberries? I'll just say a lot. A
lot is the correct answer. Soit's going to be like 40 cups,
(32:19):
48 ounce cups of berries at 50calories per eight ounce cup. So
that's a couple gallons ofberries. So who's going to be
sick? Who's going to get sick tothe stomach? Eat not many
berries? You are that's a bitmuch. Yeah, it's too much. So
there are times in places wherewe would have abundant plant
life that we could subsist offof entirely in the autumn. So in
(32:40):
the fall, we've got tree nuts,we've got fruits, we've got
berries, we've got manydifferent food resources, many
of which are very nutrientdense. So the tree nuts alone
would give us something that wecould live off of. But not every
tree nut is safe for humanconsumption, and some require
special processing, like acorns,tannic acid and acorns is going
to make you very sick unless youknow how to get rid of it. So
(33:01):
yeah, take another foragingclass. You and your listeners
and everybody else like takeanother and keep brushing up on
that skill set. And then, in theevent that we're in a season
where the plant life is notgiving you a lot of calories,
think about a backup plan forgetting wild food. So something
like fishing. We could fish 12months out of the year. Just a
(33:23):
small amount of supplies canallow us to do survival fishing,
just some hooks and some fishingline. We don't need all the
other junk. We just need thehooks in the line. Learn how to
tie a knot in monofilamentfishing line and tie a hook onto
the line, and tie the line ontoa long stick, flip over a rock
and find a worm and dunk him inthe water and see what you can
(33:45):
catch. And that's going to giveus a source of protein and fat
that we will very often lackfrom the plant kingdom. Foods,
Jessica Bowser (33:52):
excellent. Okay, there's one more question about
food, and this is from Fernando,and I completely relate with
what he's saying here. He says,I constantly see people setting
off for an all day hike withonly snacks to eat. How much
food do I actually need tocarry?
Unknown (34:08):
That's a phenomenal question. Fernando, you need to
carry all the food, buddy, bringall the foods just, just, just
hit the 711 before you go outhiking, and just load up your
whole bag. This is going todepend on a person's metabolism
and the amount of work thatthey're going to do. So I mean,
if we're if we're climbing acouple 1000 feet in elevation on
(34:30):
our hike, we are going to blowthrough a lot of extra calories,
possibly 1000s of extra caloriesabove your baseline metabolism,
and so you just can't haveenough food. And then if we
stack on cold, the cold is goingto strip the heat out of your
body, and that's going to stripthe calories out of your body
(34:50):
like nothing else. And so wemight want to have a couple
extra 1000 calories per personper day in cold weather. And
then if we stack on otherenvironment. Mental factors like
wind and dampness and all ofthat. This is our long term
survival issue, getting enoughcalories, but it's also going to
impact us in the short term. Andso I would just say, Bring all
(35:12):
the food you can. And I do havesome criteria for good survival
food. Yes, I want
Jessica Bowser (35:17):
to hear that for sure, because you hear about
like these three hikerssurviving on slim gyms. And I'm
like, I don't understand. Yeah,
Unknown (35:24):
I mean, I mean, you could, you know, theoretically,
and so you've preserved yourselfwith that high amount of sodium
and BHT, and, you know, all theother junk that's in there. For
me, good survival food needs tojust fit a couple of criteria.
One is that it has a long shelflife. So we talked about
checking our expiration dates onour medicines and our water
(35:49):
disinfection tablets. We ideallywant to have a survival food
that has a long shelf life, justso that we don't have to rotate
it out very often. Anotherfeature of the survival food
should be very high calories, sowe need something that's going
to be offering a ton ofcalories, just so that we have
them to burn for energy, forwarmth. A lot of foods don't fit
(36:11):
that requirement. So a lot offoods that we would get that
have a long shelf life lackcalories. And so we want to hit
those two buttons we want tohit, the shelf life and the high
calorie. And then a thirdfeature, which is just just
practical, that survival foodshould be something we could eat
without any preparation at all.
Just rip the bag open, rip thepouch open, rip the packaging
(36:35):
open, and eat it. If you couldeat it while you're walking, I'm
satisfied. And so we needcalories, shelf life and and
just ease of consumption. So ifthat's a Snickers bar for you,
then that's great. You know, ifthat's a some other product, if
you want a protein bar, great.
(36:58):
But the longest lasting thingthat I'm aware of are the
survival food bars, thesedifferent ration bars, and many
different companies make them.
So you can get a big brick ofthem, and that's something you'd
find on a lifeboat, but you canalso get them in individually
packaged bars. New Millennium isa company that makes a bunch of
different flavors, and it'sessentially a really dense, dry
(37:19):
shortbread cookie, but it's gota five year shelf life. It's got
400 calories per bar, and youknow, you can eat while you're
walking, so something like that,or something comparable to that,
would would be a great choicefor survival food. Think
Jessica Bowser (37:38):
some of us need to rethink what we're putting in
our packs and and I hear whatFernando is saying on this i i
meet up with friends to gohiking, and I'm like, What did
you bring to eat? And they'relike, Oh, I stopped at 711 and
they have a bunch of junk foodin their bag, and that's all
they brought. And I'm scratchingmy head, because I would die if
that's all I had to eat.
Unknown (37:56):
Yeah, I mean, we, we ideally want to have some some
really good nutrition, becausewe're putting a lot of demands
on our body when we're hikingand being out in the elements,
and so yeah, we want to give itthe best fuel that we can put in
the tank.
Jessica Bowser (38:10):
Ready to increase your outdoor skill set.
As a listener of this podcast,you can join Tim for his outdoor
courses using an exclusivediscount code, choose from
primitive cooking, foraging foredible plants, tree
identification, herbal medicine,sustainable gardening, off grid
cooking, blacksmithing, AXcraft, rope craft and so much
(38:32):
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use the discount code Bao a 15for 15% off any of Tim's
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Register soon. Offer expires onJuly 1. Join us next week for
part two, when Tim answers moreof your questions about
wilderness survival skills, suchas how to find shelter and make
(38:54):
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can text me directly by clickingon Send me a text message in
(39:15):
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From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the
Chesapeake Bay, Virginia is amecca for outdoor travel and
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(00:23):
Bowser, could your outdooradventure turn into a survival
situation? In this eye openingconversation with wilderness
expert Tim mcwelch of advancedsurvival training, we dive into
the essential skills andknowledge that could mean the
difference between life anddeath when venturing into
Virginia's beautiful butsometimes unforgiving
(00:45):
wilderness, Tim shares criticalinsights about why even
experienced hikers and outdoorenthusiasts can find themselves
in trouble, including unexpectedweather changes, injuries
becoming lost, or accidents thatcan escalate quickly. The
conversation takes a practicalturn as Tim addresses listener
questions about survivalpriorities that help you focus
(01:07):
on what matters most in anemergency, whether you're a
casual day hiker or seasonedadventurer, this conversation
delivers practical wisdom thatmakes the outdoors safer for
everyone. Let's go VirginiaOutdoor Adventures is sponsored
by the Virginia association forparks, V, A, F, P champions
(01:29):
parks across the Commonwealth.
Registration for the annualconference is now live. Join us
may 1 through fourth atoccaneechi State Park. This
year's conference will feature atour of Staunton river
battlefield State Park, a guidedpaddle program at occaneechi,
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(01:51):
and speakers, workshops andpanel discussions, meals and
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Register for the VA FP annualconference today by clicking on
Virginia association for parksin the show notes of your
listening app. Tim, welcome backto Virginia outdoor adventures.
(02:16):
Hi, Jessica, thank you forhaving me back. I'm so excited
to have you back, because you'vebeen a guest before in Episode
34 which was in season three,and that was an episode about
foraging for wild edible plants,and it was such a popular
episode that I thought it wouldbe fantastic to have you back
again to cover a new topic.
(02:38):
That's great. I'm pleased, verypleased. So what do you love
about Virginia's outdoors? Ihave
Unknown (02:43):
to, I have to say the forests. That's the thing that
that we just don't have anywhereelse in the country, not quite
like the forest in Virginia.
Other places, they've gotbeautiful landscapes that are
that are similar. But this is,this is my home. This is where I
grew up. And so there's justnothing else that looks quite
like this. I
Jessica Bowser (03:04):
totally agree, Tim, should we jump right into
the first listener question?
Absolutely So, just so thateverybody knows, I did solicit
listener questions for thisepisode, and this was a topic
that was highly requested bysome of my listeners, especially
on my listener survey, and Iasked people what exactly they
wanted to know, because I didn'twant to guess. I wanted to make
(03:26):
sure that we covered all thethings that people were
interested in. So let's go aheadand jump into the first
question. And this is from myfriend Kevin in Leesburg. And I
will just preface this by sayingthat he was being sarcastic when
he said this, but I threw it inhere anyway, because I actually
know, and you know that thereare some people who think this.
So he said, do you even needsurvival skills? We have
(03:48):
smartphones and cars.
Unknown (03:52):
You don't actually need them. Kevin, you specifically,
yeah, just stay home. You canjust order food on GrubHub.
Maybe get a job where you workremotely, find yourself the
mother of your children on somekind of dating app. I'm sure
there's somebody within fivemiles. So, yeah, you don't
actually have to have any sortof outdoor skills. But the
(04:12):
average person who might want togo to the park, once in a while,
take a camping trip, gobackpacking, go kayaking, you
know, just have some kind ofoutdoor adventure, they actually
should have some wildernesssurvival skills, just in case.
What
Jessica Bowser (04:27):
situations might someone encounter that would
require survival skills?
Unknown (04:31):
You know, one of the biggest reasons the search and
rescue gets called out forsomeone who's having trouble in
the outdoors is the scenariowhere that person has gotten
lost, and then a close second issomeone who's having some kind
of medical emergency, and thiscould be an injury, or it could
be some medical event that theydidn't get the memo that today
(04:53):
was going to be stroke day orheart attack day, or, you know,
some other major medical crisis.
But. Between these two, betweengetting lost or having some kind
of medical issue. You know,these are the things that can
that can happen to anybody whenwe go out into the outdoors.
What about weather
Jessica Bowser (05:12):
changes? Those situations arise too Absolutely.
Unknown (05:15):
So that's one of those areas that can kind of kind of
straddle the issue of having amedical crisis. So if the
weather turned colder, if theweather got wet, even if we knew
where we were, even if we werenot physically harmed, we could
still start to drift intohypothermia by getting cold, by
(05:36):
getting wet, by having the windblow on us, and if we're not
dressed for that, then we couldgo into hypothermic shock, and
now we're back to having amedical crisis. So yeah, weather
plays a huge role, and mostpeople don't understand that
mountains make their ownweather. And so whatever the
prediction was for that day thatmight have been at a lower
elevation, and you go up on amountain, and it could be a very
(05:59):
different set of weatherpatterns that day.
Jessica Bowser (06:01):
Yes, I can't tell you how many times I've
experienced that myself, but youlearn as you go that you just
need to be prepared, becausesomething can change. Like you
said, you think it's going to beone thing. And then you get up
there, I can't tell you how manytimes I've left the house and
the weather is beautiful, andthen I get to the mountain, I
step out of my car and it'sfreezing and it's like, July,
yeah,
Unknown (06:22):
this is the thing that will sucker punch somebody who
is not experienced, you know,they're not familiar with with
the different regions, you know,within our state, just how
different these, these microclimates, and how different
elevation can make the weather.
Jessica Bowser (06:38):
What are the key preventative measures someone
should take before headingoutside, including what to pack.
Unknown (06:44):
One of the biggest things people should do before
they go on any outdoor excursionis to form a plan for that
outing. You know you want to youwant to plan out where you're
going, what your route is goingto be, what you're doing when
you're coming back, which caryou're taking, where that car
should be parked. Just figureout all these little details.
(07:04):
Study a map, you know, and justjust get all that figured out,
and then tell somebody exactlywhat your plans are. And this
should be somebody responsibleback home who would act as your
safety net. So in the event thatyou do go out there and you get
turned around, or you do go outthere and you're just having a
bad luck day, you know, that'sthe day that that you were going
(07:27):
to have a medical emergency, andyou didn't know it. You didn't
get the memo. So you go outthere and you run into trouble,
and if you're not back on time,if you don't call and check in
at the predetermined time, thenyour safety net person back home
can reach out to maybe the localpark. You know, a lot of parks
have have a law enforcementofficer, and they've got a
(07:49):
hotline that you can call 24hours a day, and so, you know,
let's say, for example, somebodygot lost at a local state park.
You know, there's going to be aphone number that you could call
if your friend went hiking inthat park and did not come home,
and their car is still in theparking lot, and you know,
they're not answering their cellphone, and there are resources,
(08:09):
so it's very important to knowwhat those resources are, and
provide that specific phonenumber to your safety net person
who's watching out for you backhome. I
Jessica Bowser (08:18):
think this is a good time to mention that I have
taken a couple of your coursesbefore, and I just recently took
one of your bushcraft crashcourses. And you were telling
the group during that coursethat the phone number that your
person at home should be callingshould not be the local police,
right? And do you want toexplain why that is? Yeah,
Unknown (08:38):
that's That's right.
So, movies, television shows,they've trained us that if
anything goes south, you dial911, here in America, and you
know, you say, I'd like toreport a missing person, please.
So that's a big no no if we'retrying to help somebody who's
gotten lost in the woods or orhaving some kind of medical
event out in the woods, amissing persons case presented
to law enforcement, just thenormal police department or
(09:02):
Sheriff's Department. This isnot going to get much attention,
and probably nothing's going tohappen for 48 hours. A lot can
happen in 48 hours. Somebodycould die of hypothermia in a
few hours, if the weather is is,you know, turning colder,
getting wet, getting windy, andso this is not the outcome that
(09:22):
we we want to, want to create.
So by calling that park number,that park emergency phone
number, you might get a lawenforcement officer who is at
that park, or park rangers whoare at that park, and then they
can get search and rescueactivated sometimes within an
hour, and most search and rescuecases have a happy ending, and
(09:46):
they are resolved within 12hours here in the United States.
And so by calling the rightnumber and using the right
language. So just to recap, wedon't dial 911, and we don't use
the M word missing. Or we don'tsay that word we call the park,
or whatever authority governsthe area that that person was
(10:07):
going to. And we say that weneed to report a lost use the L
word lost hiker, lost camp orlost backpacker. Now, things can
get set in motion at a muchfaster speed,
Jessica Bowser (10:24):
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the horizon, Virginia StateParks is launching its spring
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(10:46):
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(11:09):
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(11:32):
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(11:55):
interpretive programs in yourshow notes. Tim, what should
people have in their pack asthey prepare to go out. So
Unknown (12:03):
your basic supplies for anybody, even for like a one
hour hike, they should cover youif you were stuck out there
overnight. And so these aregoing to be items that would
provide warmth if the weatherturns cold, things that would
protect you from rain, if, ifthat weather pattern moves in,
you'll need methods of signalingfor help, because that's your
(12:25):
tool to help search and rescueto help you. We want to help the
people who are trying to helpus. And so this could be
something very simple, likesignal whistle, just a brightly
colored, very loud signalwhistle. And then the items for
shelter could be something likeponcho, a space blanket would be
an excellent choice, becausethat's going to help keep us
warm and knock off the wind andthe rain that are trying to
(12:47):
trying to steal our body heat.
We want to have just a few fooditems, some high calorie food
water to drink, maybe some waterdisinfection tablets, which
would allow us to resupply ourwater. So we could have a one
quart bottle and some of thosepurification tablets, and now we
can have many days worth ofwater, and it's, you know,
something that can pack downvery small in a survival kit,
(13:09):
and so just a few basic itemscan make the difference in an
outdoor emergency.
Jessica Bowser (13:17):
Let's jump into our second listener question.
This is from Cindy, whosubmitted her question on
Instagram. And Cindy would liketo know, what should I have in
my first aid kits I have gottenlost or, as I say, turned around
in the forest. So
Unknown (13:32):
yeah, first aid, this is something that I often get on
a soapbox and rant about alittle bit in my survival
classes here in Virginia.
Survival is something that has alot of facets to it, and one of
the biggest and most importantfacets of it is first aid. I
tell my students all the time,first aid is the most likely
survival skill you will ever usein your entire life, and you
(13:56):
probably aren't even going toneed it out in the woods. You
might need to perform first aidat home on a loved one. You
might need it at work, you mightneed it driving down the road,
you might need it on vacation.
You never know when you're goingto need first aid skills. And
there's such a wide range ofskills that we could acquire.
You know, you're a living humanperson walking around in a
living, breathing body. Don'tyou think you need to know how
(14:18):
to patch it up, maybe take careof the people around you that
you claim to care about, but youstill refuse to go get a first
aid class. Do you really evencare? First Aid has two facets
to it. For us as people who arepracticing wilderness survival
skills, the first facet ishaving the stuff. It's really
hard to do first aid withoutfirst aid supplies, it can be
(14:40):
done. It's just harder, takeslonger. So the first part is the
stuff, and the second part isthe skills. So we need to be
able to have both of those. Thestuff is great, but it's not
independent of the skills. Weneed to know the skills to use
the stuff. And then the skillsare great, but it would. Take
forever to to fabricate atourniquet. You know, if someone
(15:03):
needs a tourniquet, you don'thave time to cobble together a
tourniquet with a branch andyour belt and, you know, and
whatever other junk you you canput together. Like, if someone
needs a tourniquet, they need iton them in less than 30 seconds.
Like, it's going to take youthat long to just even find a
stick that's not going to break.
So I recommend having both ofthose hemispheres covered in
first aid, both the skillslearned in a hands on fashion
(15:25):
and the stuff, the rightequipment, the right supplies,
the right resources in a medicalkit that you can dig into
easily, and even something thatsomeone else could dig into and
find the things they need. Somaybe someone else uses your
first aid kit on you. It'simpossible to predict how that
kit will get used, but I willtell you this, first aid is the
(15:49):
most likely survival skillanybody's ever going to use. And
so to that end, in our kit, wewant to have the usual stuff for
the everyday boo boos. So wewant the band aids. We want some
Neosporin. We want some burngel. We want some anti age
cream, you know, just the basicstuff for the cut, scrape,
scratches, burns, blisters,these types of everyday injuries
(16:09):
and just minor things. But wealso need to be ready for a more
serious medical emergency, andthat's when we need the
dressings, the bandages, thegauze, put a tourniquet in there
and put it on top. I always puttourniquets on top of my first
aid supplies, because that's theone that I would need the
(16:30):
fastest. And thank god I'venever had to put one on anybody
outside of practice situations.
But if we need it, we need it inseconds, not, you know, dig
through the bag and try to findit at the bottom. And I also
like to have a headlamp in myfirst aid kit. I don't want that
right on top, because if someonegets hurt after dark, myself or
(16:53):
somebody that I'm with, I needto be able to see to assess that
injury and perform first aid.
And I don't need to be diggingthrough the bag trying to find
the headlamp, either. So theheadlamp and the tourniquet go
on top in a large pouch in mymedical bag. And then other
pouches will have the Boo Boostuff. And then other pouches
will have some simple over thecounter meds. And then other
parts of the kit will have thebandages, the dressings, the
(17:17):
gauze, the medical tape, thingslike that, that I could, you
know, use to patch up a biggerinjury and other things, you
know, a triangle bandage is veryversatile. So I can use that to
create an arm sling. If someonehas hurt their elbow or
shoulder. I can use that to makea tourniquet if I had to, you
(17:38):
know, if I needed to somebody'shaving a bad day if I need to
roll out two tourniquets. Butit's not unheard of, and so some
versatile piece of equipment,like a triangle bandage, can
serve a lot of different roles,and this is just the beginning.
These are just a few of the topitems. You could buy a first aid
kit, or you could assemble itpiece by piece on your own. I
(17:58):
would just recommend that youdon't cut corners on price. You
will get what you pay for if youbuy some knockoff tourniquet,
it's probably going to crackinto pieces when you're trying
to use it.
Jessica Bowser (18:13):
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(18:56):
your show notes for the linkduring the Bush craft course you
were talking about the need tounderstand or remember the rule
of threes. Can you explain whatthat is?
Unknown (19:08):
Yeah, thank you for asking. I love the rule of
threes. A lot of people don'treally understand where to start
when it comes to wildernesssurvival or any other genre of
survival. The rule of threesgives us an easy to understand
and easy to use framework. It'slike a set of hooks that we can
hang things on. It's like a setof boxes that we can place
(19:29):
things in. And so the rule ofthrees dictates that we have
three minutes to live withoutair. We have three hours to live
out in the cold. If we have air,we have three days to live
without water. If we haveshelter and air, we have three
weeks to live without food. Ifwe have water, shelter and air,
(19:53):
and so at its core, the rule ofthrees is showing you how long
you have to live in increment.
Of time. Now, of course, this isa gross generalization. You
know, you might live more thanthree minutes without air.
People that have been underwaterin situations where they fell
through the ice and drowned inin near freezing water, they
have been revived after 40minutes, 50 minutes after an
(20:16):
hour in rare cases, and peoplemight live for many days without
drinking water. There arestories of people living over a
week without drinking water, butin general, the average person
is going to last about threedays without drinking water. And
so there are always wildextremes to these spans of time
that a person can live withoutbasic essentials, but in
(20:40):
general, three minutes withoutair, three hours without
shelter, three days withoutwater, three weeks without food.
And so that shows us whichsurvival resources are more
important in a short termsituation, and then which ones
become more important in a longterm situation. So for your
typical 72 hour survivalscenario. And a lot of people
(21:02):
base their survival kit andtheir training off of the idea
that they would be rescuedwithin three days, or 72 hours.
And so we would absolutely needair, and that's a freebie, thank
God, unless there's an avalancheor or some other, you know,
horrible situation. We got freeair. So that one's a that one's
one that we don't have to fightfor, but the shelter and the
(21:25):
water, those are things that wewe have to have within a couple
of days. And what's notaccounted for in the rule of
threes is medical emergencies.
And so that one can just sneakin and hit us wherever maybe
we've got, you know, theexsanguinating hemorrhage. We've
got that massive bleed. Weslipped in some mud and a broken
(21:47):
piece of glass was sticking up,and it slashed our arm. That
happened to a friend of mine,and he almost died out in the
woods. He would just hike italong, and slipped on some mud,
and there was a little jaggedpiece of a broken bottle, and
hit it, laid his arm open fromfrom wrist to elbow. And so he
had to improvise a binding outof his T shirt and and use
(22:09):
physical pressure, you know, useuse a pressure point to help to
control the bleeding and elevatethe wound and, and, you know,
very carefully try to get backto camp before he passed out
there. He did not have the stuffto do first aid, but he did have
the skills, and so ideally, wewant to have the stuff and the
(22:29):
skills. You know, sometimes youjust don't have what you need.
Jessica Bowser (22:32):
What an interesting example of how you
think that just going for a hikecould not cause an issue, right?
I'm sure he was an experiencedhiker, and that seems like a
freak accident, but it can stillhappen,
Unknown (22:43):
absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's, it truly is a freak
accident. There's a book calleddeath at Yosemite, and it
chronicles all the justridiculously simple ways that
people have lost their liveswithin that park since it
opened. And it's just sillythings. You know, somebody might
have dropped a camera at anoverlook, and then they they
tried to climb down and get itbecause it was sitting on a
(23:05):
ledge, and then they couldn'tget back up and froze to death
on a ledge just a few feet awayfrom where they parked their car
at the Overlook. You know,they're just story after story
like that. And so if we think,Oh, nothing bad will ever happen
to me, you know, if I go in thepark, if I go out in the woods,
odds odds are it won't, butevery once in a while somebody
does, unfortunately beat theodds. Well, from
Jessica Bowser (23:27):
here on out, I think I'd like to just focus on
listener questions. I think wedid a good intro here with some
basic information for people toprepare before they go out. But
I want to focus on some of theselistener questions. So the first
one is from Patty, who lives inHenrico, and she says, I
sometimes think twice abouthiking in a new location because
(23:48):
I'm nervous about getting lost.
What would you recommend andwhat should I do if I become
lost? Jessica,
Unknown (23:54):
all of the questions you got from our listeners are
excellent. These are all amazingquestions and and I really
appreciate this, this questionfrom Patty, a lot of people
don't take that first step to goto a new place, you know, and
you don't know what you'remissing if you don't go there,
and it can be a little scary.
And so I would highly recommendfor patty and everybody else
(24:16):
that you find a buddy, findyourself a hiking buddy that you
can do. You can go someplace newwith. You know, there's there's
strength in numbers. Weinstinctively know this as a
species, and two heads arebetter than one. So if you go in
there and you're trying tofigure out, you know which way
to go, then then two peoplemight be able to get unconfused
together. But before you go geta map of that new park that you
(24:41):
want to go check out, you andyour hiking buddy can study that
map, figure out what's on theedges of that map. That Park is
not infinite, like you are notgoing to hike out of that park
onto another planet. That Parkhas finite borders, and so
figure out what they are. Ifthere's a road to the south of
the park, and if there's a riveron the west side of the park,
(25:03):
and if those are the boundaries.
And then if maybe in the northof the park there's, there's a
mountain or something. If we canfigure out what these boundaries
are, what these geologicalfeatures are and man made
features, then we can use thoseto to kind of box ourselves in.
And so you know, if you hikeinto the park heading north, and
(25:24):
you bring your map with you, andyou bring a compass, then to get
out of said Park, we would goquestion mark. Where do we go?
We hike in North. Where do wewhere do we go? To get out, we
hike south, right? And so byjust taking the time to study a
map and learn the lay of theland and figure out kind of
(25:44):
where the boundaries are, and wecan use those as a handrail if
we get lost, but we hit thatriver, and if we paid attention
to which way the river flows,and you know where it's going to
cross the road, we would haveenough knowledge to self rescue.
You know, we could, we could wecould get Unturned around. You
know, it's so easy to getconfused and get turned around
out there, especially if you gooff trail, but you can, you can
(26:06):
also self rescue. You can figureout where you are, even without
advanced land navigation skills.
I feel
Jessica Bowser (26:13):
like there's so many stories out there of people
getting lost and maybe even notmaking it, and when they're
discovered, they're like, a fewfeet from the trail right? Like,
if you don't know where you are,it doesn't matter how close you
are to the trail, you're stilllost.
Unknown (26:26):
Yeah, and there, there's just, there's so many of
those stories. There's too many.
It's a tragic amount of storieslike that. And so this is a
scenario with a fix. You know,if we had a compass, even just
with a compass, if we were ableto pick a bearing, any bearing,
and walk in a straight line,eventually we would hit
something on the east coasthere, especially in Virginia.
(26:48):
And there's an old joke like, ifyou get lost in the woods, just
sit down, because, you know,they'll build a 711 or a Walmart
or something right next to you,just really soon, and there's
stuff everywhere, like, youreally aren't in the deep
wilderness. If we went up to,like, you know, Northern Ontario
and and, you know, went out inthe wilderness, there we might
(27:09):
be hundreds of miles from anyman made feature or
civilization. And so, you know,that could be out in the middle
of nowhere, but here inVirginia, or really, most places
within the lower 48 there areplenty of features that we can
find and follow, power lines,roads, rivers. There are
features, you know, that are manmade and natural that we could
(27:32):
use as some kind of guide toself rescue and get back to
civilization. All
Jessica Bowser (27:40):
right. The next two questions are both about
water, but they're verydifferent questions. The first
one is from Kevin in Salem, andhe says, I carry water
purification tablets in my pack,but I'm unsure how to find water
if I need it, especially indrier months.
Unknown (27:55):
The dry months can be tricky, so once we get into July
and August and and even earlySeptember, before the fall rains
come the back country can bevery dry still. If we go
downhill. Across most of theplanet, if we go downhill, seek
a lower elevation, there will bepoints where springs are popping
up. There is available water atthe surface. And so if we if we
(28:19):
follow different waterways anddifferent drainages downhill
we're going to hit watereventually we just have to go
far enough to find it. And so,yeah, definitely keep those
purification tablets Kevin andand also, it's a use it or lose
it product. So keep theexpiration date in mind. So the
chlorine based products oftenlast two years, maybe less. And
(28:43):
iodine based water purificationtablets are only good for a
year, so make sure you replenishthose periodically, just so you
have that resource. I'm
Jessica Bowser (28:51):
glad you said that. I'm going to go check my
tablets as soon as we get offthis recording. Yeah,
Unknown (28:57):
check the dates, the water purification stuff, and
some of your first aid supplies,and, of course, your food, are
all going to be things thatyou'd want to, you know, cycle
through. You'd want to use itperiodically and replenish it
with something fresh, good
Jessica Bowser (29:12):
to know. And the next question about water comes
from Chrissy, who lives inChesapeake, and she says, the
water where I live in theTidewater region is salty. What
should I do if I'm stranded andneed water where fresh water
isn't available?
Unknown (29:25):
Chrissy has got the opposite problem, Water, water
everywhere and Not a Drop toDrink. So we are not built to
drink salt water. Human beingscannot drink salt water. It's
something that is kind ofconfusing, because we need salt,
we need sodium as a nutrient,and we need water, and salt
water gives you both, but givesyou too much sodium. This is
(29:47):
going to affect the electrolytesin your body, especially the
electrolytes in your brain. Andyou will go crazy, you will go
absolutely stark raving mad, andyou're also dehydrating your
body at the cellular. Level,because the salt is going to
require water from your cells tobe able to be processed. So it's
really a lose lose scenario. Sofor somebody in a coastal area
(30:11):
where the water even tastesslightly salty, so either full
on salt water, which is 3% salt,or brackish water, which is a
mixture of fresh and salt waterin that area. If the water even
tastes slightly salty, we shouldnot consume it. So the
alternative is to find some kindof spring or stream of fresh
water that's pouring into thelarger body of water. So try to
(30:33):
find a river dumping into thebay, or a stream dumping into
the river, or a spring dumpinginto a stream, or wait for rain,
but you could die of thirstwaiting for rain in a dry
season. Another option would beto dig for shallow pits in sand
dune areas and see what wateryou can find there. Sometimes
(30:56):
sand dune areas will trap rainwater, so the rain will fall
there, and it will go down intothe sand, and it won't
evaporate. And sometimes youwill have a layer of fresh water
on top of the salt water underthe sand. But we can't dig too
deep, you know, it's hit andmiss, but we would have to dig
basically a little well andtaste the water for salt.
Jessica Bowser (31:19):
Okay, so the next question is from Dakota,
and she sent this question in onInstagram. She said, I took a
foraging class once so I couldlearn to identify plants I can
eat, but I don't think it wouldbe enough to hold me over in an
emergency or for several days.
How else can I find foodforaging?
Unknown (31:37):
You know, that's what we had our previous episode
about, yeah, and there's alwayssomething to eat. Wherever you
are in the wild, there's alwayssome kind of wild food. The
problem is, it may not beenough. Many seasons out of the
year, the wild edibles are lowcalorie food items. So even
something like berries,raspberries and blackberries,
(31:57):
they're 50 or 60 calories pereight ounce cup, an eight ounce
cup of berries, like, that's oneserving. So let's, let's run the
math. How many cups of berries,Jessica, do you have to eat to
get 2000 calories from justberries? I'll just say a lot. A
lot is the correct answer. Soit's going to be like 40 cups,
(32:19):
48 ounce cups of berries at 50calories per eight ounce cup. So
that's a couple gallons ofberries. So who's going to be
sick? Who's going to get sick tothe stomach? Eat not many
berries? You are that's a bitmuch. Yeah, it's too much. So
there are times in places wherewe would have abundant plant
life that we could subsist offof entirely in the autumn. So in
(32:40):
the fall, we've got tree nuts,we've got fruits, we've got
berries, we've got manydifferent food resources, many
of which are very nutrientdense. So the tree nuts alone
would give us something that wecould live off of. But not every
tree nut is safe for humanconsumption, and some require
special processing, like acorns,tannic acid and acorns is going
to make you very sick unless youknow how to get rid of it. So
(33:01):
yeah, take another foragingclass. You and your listeners
and everybody else like takeanother and keep brushing up on
that skill set. And then, in theevent that we're in a season
where the plant life is notgiving you a lot of calories,
think about a backup plan forgetting wild food. So something
like fishing. We could fish 12months out of the year. Just a
(33:23):
small amount of supplies canallow us to do survival fishing,
just some hooks and some fishingline. We don't need all the
other junk. We just need thehooks in the line. Learn how to
tie a knot in monofilamentfishing line and tie a hook onto
the line, and tie the line ontoa long stick, flip over a rock
and find a worm and dunk him inthe water and see what you can
(33:45):
catch. And that's going to giveus a source of protein and fat
that we will very often lackfrom the plant kingdom. Foods,
Jessica Bowser (33:52):
excellent. Okay, there's one more question about
food, and this is from Fernando,and I completely relate with
what he's saying here. He says,I constantly see people setting
off for an all day hike withonly snacks to eat. How much
food do I actually need tocarry?
Unknown (34:08):
That's a phenomenal question. Fernando, you need to
carry all the food, buddy, bringall the foods just, just, just
hit the 711 before you go outhiking, and just load up your
whole bag. This is going todepend on a person's metabolism
and the amount of work thatthey're going to do. So I mean,
if we're if we're climbing acouple 1000 feet in elevation on
(34:30):
our hike, we are going to blowthrough a lot of extra calories,
possibly 1000s of extra caloriesabove your baseline metabolism,
and so you just can't haveenough food. And then if we
stack on cold, the cold is goingto strip the heat out of your
body, and that's going to stripthe calories out of your body
(34:50):
like nothing else. And so wemight want to have a couple
extra 1000 calories per personper day in cold weather. And
then if we stack on otherenvironment. Mental factors like
wind and dampness and all ofthat. This is our long term
survival issue, getting enoughcalories, but it's also going to
impact us in the short term. Andso I would just say, Bring all
(35:12):
the food you can. And I do havesome criteria for good survival
food. Yes, I want
Jessica Bowser (35:17):
to hear that for sure, because you hear about
like these three hikerssurviving on slim gyms. And I'm
like, I don't understand. Yeah,
Unknown (35:24):
I mean, I mean, you could, you know, theoretically,
and so you've preserved yourselfwith that high amount of sodium
and BHT, and, you know, all theother junk that's in there. For
me, good survival food needs tojust fit a couple of criteria.
One is that it has a long shelflife. So we talked about
checking our expiration dates onour medicines and our water
(35:49):
disinfection tablets. We ideallywant to have a survival food
that has a long shelf life, justso that we don't have to rotate
it out very often. Anotherfeature of the survival food
should be very high calories, sowe need something that's going
to be offering a ton ofcalories, just so that we have
them to burn for energy, forwarmth. A lot of foods don't fit
(36:11):
that requirement. So a lot offoods that we would get that
have a long shelf life lackcalories. And so we want to hit
those two buttons we want tohit, the shelf life and the high
calorie. And then a thirdfeature, which is just just
practical, that survival foodshould be something we could eat
without any preparation at all.
Just rip the bag open, rip thepouch open, rip the packaging
(36:35):
open, and eat it. If you couldeat it while you're walking, I'm
satisfied. And so we needcalories, shelf life and and
just ease of consumption. So ifthat's a Snickers bar for you,
then that's great. You know, ifthat's a some other product, if
you want a protein bar, great.
(36:58):
But the longest lasting thingthat I'm aware of are the
survival food bars, thesedifferent ration bars, and many
different companies make them.
So you can get a big brick ofthem, and that's something you'd
find on a lifeboat, but you canalso get them in individually
packaged bars. New Millennium isa company that makes a bunch of
different flavors, and it'sessentially a really dense, dry
(37:19):
shortbread cookie, but it's gota five year shelf life. It's got
400 calories per bar, and youknow, you can eat while you're
walking, so something like that,or something comparable to that,
would would be a great choicefor survival food. Think
Jessica Bowser (37:38):
some of us need to rethink what we're putting in
our packs and and I hear whatFernando is saying on this i i
meet up with friends to gohiking, and I'm like, What did
you bring to eat? And they'relike, Oh, I stopped at 711 and
they have a bunch of junk foodin their bag, and that's all
they brought. And I'm scratchingmy head, because I would die if
that's all I had to eat.
Unknown (37:56):
Yeah, I mean, we, we ideally want to have some some
really good nutrition, becausewe're putting a lot of demands
on our body when we're hikingand being out in the elements,
and so yeah, we want to give itthe best fuel that we can put in
the tank.
Jessica Bowser (38:10):
Ready to increase your outdoor skill set.
As a listener of this podcast,you can join Tim for his outdoor
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identification, herbal medicine,sustainable gardening, off grid
cooking, blacksmithing, AXcraft, rope craft and so much
(38:32):
more. Click on Advanced survivaltraining in your show notes and
use the discount code Bao a 15for 15% off any of Tim's
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Register soon. Offer expires onJuly 1. Join us next week for
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(38:54):
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(39:15):
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