In this post presentation Q&A, Ingmar Klaasen, VLDC Co-founder, talks with Kunal Shah of SPK Valo about his presentation on the art of perceptual transformation in lighting design. Through Kunal's journey from the Netherlands' LuxLab to establishing his own practice in Hyderabad, uncover the pivotal role of architectural storytelling and how it can revolutionise client involvement and empower budding designers. Explore Kunal's unique insights into the cultural dynamics between Western and Indian lighting design approaches, and how understanding these nuances can create impactful lighting solutions.
Join our engaging conversation with Kunal as he shares his experiences navigating the challenges of catering to diverse lighting preferences. Learn about the importance of communication and the use of storytelling as a tool in the design process. Kunal delves into the layered approach to lighting, highlighting the significance of understanding cultural filters to align design strategies with regional preferences. Whether you're a seasoned professional or an aspiring designer, this episode promises valuable insights into the transformative power of storytelling in lighting design.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Another warm welcome to the Virtual Lighting Design
Community Podcast.
Today's episode is apost-presentation interview with
Kunal Shah of SPK Valo, basedin India.
Kunal previously shared apresentation on the platform
titled the Journey of CreatingPerceptual Transformation and
the Process Behind it.
Kunal talked about theimportant role of architectural
storytelling in lighting design,as well as visual communication
(00:22):
and much more.
A great presentation and wellworth a listen In this
post-presentation Q&A session.
Co-founder of the virtuallighting design community,
ingmar Klassen joins theconversation.
Before we head into today'sepisode, a quick thank you to
our bespoke supporters AeroHospitality Lighting, creative
Lighting Asia, erco, the SignifyLighting Academy and Philix
(00:44):
Lighting.
Do also check out our onlinecommunity, vldcommunity.
Now let's jump into thepost-presentation conversation
with Kunal Shah and IngmarKlassen.
Enjoy, hi, kunal, fantastic.
Thank you so much for sharingthose insights with us.
(01:07):
I think storytelling was a bigone.
Communication the conceptualpresentation of how you intend
(01:32):
to really demonstrate to theclient what you want to achieve
and actually involve them inthat process.
You mentioned the filters andhaving that inclusive
decision-making with all thestakeholders.
I think it was a reallyimportant thing, as you
mentioned several times duringthe presentation about young and
(01:52):
up and coming lightingdesigners being aware of that
and being able to make use ofthat as a tool and as such, I
think it really ties into thebusiness of lighting design.
I'm just curious as well fromthat point of view, from when
you started early on, even fromyour days at LuxLab in the
(02:15):
Netherlands and moving into yourown practice at Hyderabad.
So I want to hear a bit moreabout your journey and how you
actually decided to use that asa tool for that visual
storytelling, because we alsouse that layers of light a lot
in our practice and it's been agame changer really in
(02:38):
communication.
So I relate directly to whatyou're showing here in the
presentation, but I'd love tohear from you also that journey
from you also early on to yourown practice, and did you notice
any differences between maybe aWestern or European way of
doing things versus you know youmentioned in India, on the
(03:01):
subcontinent?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, absolutely, it was a culture shock in India on
the subcontinent.
Oh, absolutely, it was aculture shock.
So I mean, see, the best partabout it is I understand my
country well, I understand wherethey come from, so, and I
understand the requirements andI have never debated the
(03:27):
requirements.
There is always a debate when awestern lighting designer is
doing his scheme in thesubcontinent, they always say,
oh, there is too much light.
But our people are differentcompared to someone from west,
you know, so we are programmedto being in more light.
(03:48):
So, we are tropical beings.
I'm sure you'll be able torelate to this better because
you've been living in Singaporeand you have this exposure
towards the West.
the rest so see.
(04:09):
Initially for me it was a shockbecause the sensibilities that
I had developed during myeducation and then that brief
stint at LuxLab, thosesensibilities were still not
appreciated or the clients werenot so sensitive enough.
Today, probably, I understandthat this knowledge sharing has
to be done systematically andprobably not push them towards a
(04:34):
certain solution.
I think controls has helped mea lot, Himar, in that, because
it helps me creating thoselayers of light which I feel is
not required, or thosebrightness levels which I feel
is not required.
But from the client perspectiveit is required.
(04:59):
And we face this challenge dayin and day out, and not just in
residential context but also inhospitality context because in
hospitality also uh, I have somany of my clients telling that
the rooms are not well lit,which from our perspective, from
a professional lighting designperspective, is more than
(05:20):
sufficient.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So, um, there's your cultural filter as well, isn't?
It?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So see, when you understandthat, you know what a client
requires, when you know theirfilters, and I think you can
give a lot better solutionbecause you understand them.
It's just understanding people,you know, yeah.
(05:48):
So yeah, coming to thepictorial aspect or the layered
approach has helped us quite abit, because what was happening
was people, what I had seengenerally in the market.
When I come in, this is 2011,I'm talking about yeah.
There were a lot of thesevendors who used to take a
(06:09):
dialects calculation to theclient and they say, oh, you
have 400 lux here, you have 200lux here, and what is 100 lux?
Neither the vendor could talkabout nor the client could talk
about.
You know what is 100 lux end ofthe day, talk about, nor the
client would talk about.
You know what is 100 lakhs endof day.
(06:29):
So this made me realize that itis important that, pictorially,
a person should understand whatkind of space he's going to get
.
So initially in my career Iused to have a lot of time.
I used to take people to spaceswhich I felt were well lit.
Yeah, I used to take them tolounges.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I used to take people to spaces which I felt were
well-lit.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I used to take them to lounges, I used to take them
to fine dining to tell them, youknow and luckily for me, the
clients had time, I had time, wecould develop that and over a
period, what we have done isfrom our projects, we've
developed a lot of referenceswhich we can talk to them about
and, having spent so much timein the subcontinent, I have a
(07:08):
decent amount of projects whereI can tell them that you know,
this is what you're going toachieve and this is what we are
referring to.
Certain projects for the democenter for was really a game
changer for lighting designmarket in my city.
(07:31):
I feel I find clients coming tome and talking about oh,
where's the furniture accent?
Where is the art accent?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So you can show in that layer of light, they
understand where it's comingfrom and how it's achieved,
right yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And that's so exciting because it's it's it's
a blessing to work with a clientwho is aware of these layers,
you know so.
So I think from I had thisreservations when I was
consulting this company.
Hey, I'm creating a competitorfor myself, but I feel I have
(08:09):
created an ecosystem where Ihave people who understand
better, and people whounderstand that they cannot do
it will certainly use ourservices.
So I think, if I talk about it,I think I've created an
ecosystem where people willappreciate thoughtfully lit
(08:31):
spaces, because I mean,especially if you see India,
there is such an explosion ofneed of curated spaces because
India is now getting to usespaces which are curated.
It was never that, you know,and it's a very, very big way.
(08:54):
So I think it's the right timefor people to understand this
vocabulary of light as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, and that actually brings me to another
thing that you mentioned duringyour presentation about client
expectations.
It actually all ties in reallynicely the communication part,
the managing the expectations.
I did say client expectations,but you also talked about the
lines of what the contractorsare doing and what the
(09:22):
consultants are doing.
Sometimes it's a bit blurry.
You also mentioned that thelayers of light doesn't
necessarily have to be a superaccurate reflection of the exact
solution.
I think you said.
And that sort of brings me tothe question of how important is
(09:43):
it to accurately be able toportray the what you're trying
to achieve to the client?
Because, as you know, um, wecan make really beautiful
renders, uh, to the point whereyou know you might wonder how
are we going to achieve that inreality?
And so when you know when theclient comes to start they, they
sort of want to, I guess.
(10:03):
See, oh, this is what Iexpected because this is what I
was shown.
So what are your thoughts onthat in terms of, like,
accurately being able to showthat?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So that is one thing that we have been actively
working on, Ingmar that weclearly tell the client and if
you see our presentation also,they are not photorealistic.
They are communicating thelayers clearly, but they are not
photorealistic.
So this is something that Imake it make sure that the
(10:38):
client is getting that.
This is an artistic render ofwhat I want to achieve yeah but
this is not the real image and Ipush my clients not to, because
my clients will be architectsas well, and I push them not to
do a photorealistic render,because then the whole process
(11:00):
of being able to improvise onwhat you were thinking is
completely lost.
So, coming to the point thatyou were mentioning that, how
important is it to have theaccuracy in terms of the layers
you wanted to achieve?
So I feel it depends on theproject and the client.
(11:20):
How are you reading theirfilters, well or not?
Because there are are.
See, I have clients who areupgrading from a residence which
had only tube lights yeah soyou understand, they're living
in spaces which do not haveshadow, which is flatly lit.
So for them, coming and livinginto a space which has accents,
(11:44):
which has contrast, is somethinga a huge leap for them.
And on that, see what happens,uh, is the materials being used
by interior architects also, umsee, hyderabad is known for
these huge villas, and for aninterior architect to show
(12:07):
variation, they end up using alot of different materials in
the space.
And spaces which are the flooris dark, the ceiling is dark.
They want to create ahospitality experience there,
but is the client ready toaccept it?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
It's something you know, know another story, isn't
it?
I mean, you showed some amazing, um images of projects that
you've done, um, you know, uh,of the bar area and what do you
call it like underneath the barand all the different materials
on the ceiling and all theintricate details.
I guess on a big scale projectlike that, you know you talked a
(12:48):
bit about working out thedetails and some of these
details are quite complex, asyou mentioned.
It also helps in terms of valueengineering, because you would
have probably encountered that alot as well with you know,
budgets being quite restrictiveon certain projects.
I guess from a clientperspective, if they understand
(13:09):
what layer of light is producingwhich mood or ambience or
effect do you find that reallyhelps in terms of what they want
to cut out?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Absolutely.
I think, hospitality that way is.
You know, when they see valuein what we are proposing, then
they are okay to spend a littleon it.
But I'll tell you, the F&Bprojects in India are shoestring
budget, so probably less thanshoestring budget, less than
(13:48):
shoe strength budget.
But yes, the clients are betteraware of what you want to
create and they will help yougetting that solution.
They will not want tocompromise on the effect, but
they would certainly want tocompromise on the kind of
fixture they want to buy.
But see in this also as anindependent practice I have seen
that.
Know if you're going to push aF&B space to buy premium
(14:11):
products, it certainly doesn'tmake sense because the shelf
life of a F&B space is not eventhree years.
So I mean it's very importantto understand the economics
behind it also.
So I think, as someone who isfrom the city, who understands
how their businesses work, whois not coming from an ecosystem
(14:34):
where the economics iscompletely different, I believe
that my clients are happybecause I understand their
businesses better.
I understand what they're doingare happy because I understand
their business is better.
I understand what they aredoing.
My suppliers are happy becausethey know that I know what they
can supply in a certain time.
I think all of this youngdesigners have to really be
(14:58):
aware of into which ecosystemthey are working in.
So I would I mean see the wholeidea of getting into VLDC was.
I wanted to share what I havegone through in this 12 years
because it's very important tounderstand the ecosystem we are
working in, correct.
(15:19):
I think if you're coming from adifferent ecosystem and
catering to a very differentecosystem, you will certainly
see that friction.
Yeah absolutely, and I think.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
On that note, I think being able to share that
knowledge is a really greatthing to be able to do.
We have a lot of young andupcoming designers.
Some are already in a practice,some are coming fresh out of
KTH and Visma and places likethat, so it's nice to be able to
(15:53):
do that.
Do you have you know now, Iguess, if we round up everything
that we've talked about andalso what you've so eloquently
put in your presentation, whatwould be maybe some final words
of advice that you would give toto young people who are looking
at um, at the lighting designprofession?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
um, I think what I would like to tell youngsters is
um, a lighting design is a very, very exciting profession
because of the variables that wedeal with.
We are dealing with science, weare dealing with art, we are
dealing with people.
So I think it's a very, veryexciting profession because you
(16:37):
are doing something new each day.
No day is a bowling day.
At the same time, understandingthe ecosystem, understanding
the people, is extremelyimportant, I feel.
End of the day, it's aboutpeople.
If you're able to connect, ifyou're able to understand, if
(16:58):
you're able to strike thedialogue, well then I think it
will be fun to work.
Of course, being able to chargethe right fee, being able to
sustain the office all that is adifferent topic altogether.
But we're getting into goodtimes.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Absolutely, Kunal.
Thank you so much.
I loved how you brought up someof these really key points in,
I guess, the journey and thebusiness of logic design.
I also love how you made itclear about you know reading
people's filters and how tocater to those different
expectations coming out of that.
But that's been a greatpresentation and also thanks for
(17:41):
sharing with us.
Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure.
You've gained some insight orinspiration that you can take
away or perhaps apply.
(18:02):
If you enjoyed this episode, itis always appreciated if you
could take a moment to share thepodcast with your peers and
friends or leave a review onyour favorite podcast app.
Consider subscribing to thepodcast and our YouTube channel
to stay up to date with ourlatest content.
Do check out our onlineplatform as well at vldcommunity
If you would like more.
(18:23):
Why not go back and listen tosome of our previous episodes
and hear more from our thoughtleaders?
Thanks for listening and wewill be back with more great
presentations or interviews verysoon.
Until next time.
Another warm welcome to the Virtual Lighting Design
Community Podcast.
Today's episode is apost-presentation interview with
Kunal Shah of SPK Valo, basedin India.
Kunal previously shared apresentation on the platform
titled the Journey of CreatingPerceptual Transformation and
the Process Behind it.
Kunal talked about theimportant role of architectural
storytelling in lighting design,as well as visual communication
(00:22):
and much more.
A great presentation and wellworth a listen In this
post-presentation Q&A session.
Co-founder of the virtuallighting design community,
ingmar Klassen joins theconversation.
Before we head into today'sepisode, a quick thank you to
our bespoke supporters AeroHospitality Lighting, creative
Lighting Asia, erco, the SignifyLighting Academy and Philix
(00:44):
Lighting.
Do also check out our onlinecommunity, vldcommunity.
Now let's jump into thepost-presentation conversation
with Kunal Shah and IngmarKlassen.
Enjoy, hi, kunal, fantastic.
Thank you so much for sharingthose insights with us.
(01:07):
I think storytelling was a bigone.
Communication the conceptualpresentation of how you intend
(01:32):
to really demonstrate to theclient what you want to achieve
and actually involve them inthat process.
You mentioned the filters andhaving that inclusive
decision-making with all thestakeholders.
I think it was a reallyimportant thing, as you
mentioned several times duringthe presentation about young and
(01:52):
up and coming lightingdesigners being aware of that
and being able to make use ofthat as a tool and as such, I
think it really ties into thebusiness of lighting design.
I'm just curious as well fromthat point of view, from when
you started early on, even fromyour days at LuxLab in the
(02:15):
Netherlands and moving into yourown practice at Hyderabad.
So I want to hear a bit moreabout your journey and how you
actually decided to use that asa tool for that visual
storytelling, because we alsouse that layers of light a lot
in our practice and it's been agame changer really in
(02:38):
communication.
So I relate directly to whatyou're showing here in the
presentation, but I'd love tohear from you also that journey
from you also early on to yourown practice, and did you notice
any differences between maybe aWestern or European way of
doing things versus you know youmentioned in India, on the
(03:01):
subcontinent?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, absolutely, it was a culture shock in India on
the subcontinent.
Oh, absolutely, it was aculture shock.
So I mean, see, the best partabout it is I understand my
country well, I understand wherethey come from, so, and I
understand the requirements andI have never debated the
(03:27):
requirements.
There is always a debate when awestern lighting designer is
doing his scheme in thesubcontinent, they always say,
oh, there is too much light.
But our people are differentcompared to someone from west,
you know, so we are programmedto being in more light.
(03:48):
So, we are tropical beings.
I'm sure you'll be able torelate to this better because
you've been living in Singaporeand you have this exposure
towards the West.
the rest so see.
(04:09):
Initially for me it was a shockbecause the sensibilities that
I had developed during myeducation and then that brief
stint at LuxLab, thosesensibilities were still not
appreciated or the clients werenot so sensitive enough.
Today, probably, I understandthat this knowledge sharing has
to be done systematically andprobably not push them towards a
(04:34):
certain solution.
I think controls has helped mea lot, Himar, in that, because
it helps me creating thoselayers of light which I feel is
not required, or thosebrightness levels which I feel
is not required.
But from the client perspectiveit is required.
(04:59):
And we face this challenge dayin and day out, and not just in
residential context but also inhospitality context because in
hospitality also uh, I have somany of my clients telling that
the rooms are not well lit,which from our perspective, from
a professional lighting designperspective, is more than
(05:20):
sufficient.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So, um, there's your cultural filter as well, isn't?
It?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So see, when you understandthat, you know what a client
requires, when you know theirfilters, and I think you can
give a lot better solutionbecause you understand them.
It's just understanding people,you know, yeah.
(05:48):
So yeah, coming to thepictorial aspect or the layered
approach has helped us quite abit, because what was happening
was people, what I had seengenerally in the market.
When I come in, this is 2011,I'm talking about yeah.
There were a lot of thesevendors who used to take a
(06:09):
dialects calculation to theclient and they say, oh, you
have 400 lux here, you have 200lux here, and what is 100 lux?
Neither the vendor could talkabout nor the client could talk
about.
You know what is 100 lux end ofthe day, talk about, nor the
client would talk about.
You know what is 100 lakhs endof day.
(06:29):
So this made me realize that itis important that, pictorially,
a person should understand whatkind of space he's going to get
.
So initially in my career Iused to have a lot of time.
I used to take people to spaceswhich I felt were well lit.
Yeah, I used to take them tolounges.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I used to take people to spaces which I felt were
well-lit.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I used to take them to lounges, I used to take them
to fine dining to tell them, youknow and luckily for me, the
clients had time, I had time, wecould develop that and over a
period, what we have done isfrom our projects, we've
developed a lot of referenceswhich we can talk to them about
and, having spent so much timein the subcontinent, I have a
(07:08):
decent amount of projects whereI can tell them that you know,
this is what you're going toachieve and this is what we are
referring to.
Certain projects for the democenter for was really a game
changer for lighting designmarket in my city.
(07:31):
I feel I find clients coming tome and talking about oh,
where's the furniture accent?
Where is the art accent?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So you can show in that layer of light, they
understand where it's comingfrom and how it's achieved,
right yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And that's so exciting because it's it's it's
a blessing to work with a clientwho is aware of these layers,
you know so.
So I think from I had thisreservations when I was
consulting this company.
Hey, I'm creating a competitorfor myself, but I feel I have
(08:09):
created an ecosystem where Ihave people who understand
better, and people whounderstand that they cannot do
it will certainly use ourservices.
So I think, if I talk about it,I think I've created an
ecosystem where people willappreciate thoughtfully lit
(08:31):
spaces, because I mean,especially if you see India,
there is such an explosion ofneed of curated spaces because
India is now getting to usespaces which are curated.
It was never that, you know,and it's a very, very big way.
(08:54):
So I think it's the right timefor people to understand this
vocabulary of light as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, and that actually brings me to another
thing that you mentioned duringyour presentation about client
expectations.
It actually all ties in reallynicely the communication part,
the managing the expectations.
I did say client expectations,but you also talked about the
lines of what the contractorsare doing and what the
(09:22):
consultants are doing.
Sometimes it's a bit blurry.
You also mentioned that thelayers of light doesn't
necessarily have to be a superaccurate reflection of the exact
solution.
I think you said.
And that sort of brings me tothe question of how important is
(09:43):
it to accurately be able toportray the what you're trying
to achieve to the client?
Because, as you know, um, wecan make really beautiful
renders, uh, to the point whereyou know you might wonder how
are we going to achieve that inreality?
And so when you know when theclient comes to start they, they
sort of want to, I guess.
(10:03):
See, oh, this is what Iexpected because this is what I
was shown.
So what are your thoughts onthat in terms of, like,
accurately being able to showthat?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So that is one thing that we have been actively
working on, Ingmar that weclearly tell the client and if
you see our presentation also,they are not photorealistic.
They are communicating thelayers clearly, but they are not
photorealistic.
So this is something that Imake it make sure that the
(10:38):
client is getting that.
This is an artistic render ofwhat I want to achieve yeah but
this is not the real image and Ipush my clients not to, because
my clients will be architectsas well, and I push them not to
do a photorealistic render,because then the whole process
(11:00):
of being able to improvise onwhat you were thinking is
completely lost.
So, coming to the point thatyou were mentioning that, how
important is it to have theaccuracy in terms of the layers
you wanted to achieve?
So I feel it depends on theproject and the client.
(11:20):
How are you reading theirfilters, well or not?
Because there are are.
See, I have clients who areupgrading from a residence which
had only tube lights yeah soyou understand, they're living
in spaces which do not haveshadow, which is flatly lit.
So for them, coming and livinginto a space which has accents,
(11:44):
which has contrast, is somethinga a huge leap for them.
And on that, see what happens,uh, is the materials being used
by interior architects also, umsee, hyderabad is known for
these huge villas, and for aninterior architect to show
(12:07):
variation, they end up using alot of different materials in
the space.
And spaces which are the flooris dark, the ceiling is dark.
They want to create ahospitality experience there,
but is the client ready toaccept it?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
It's something you know, know another story, isn't
it?
I mean, you showed some amazing, um images of projects that
you've done, um, you know, uh,of the bar area and what do you
call it like underneath the barand all the different materials
on the ceiling and all theintricate details.
I guess on a big scale projectlike that, you know you talked a
(12:48):
bit about working out thedetails and some of these
details are quite complex, asyou mentioned.
It also helps in terms of valueengineering, because you would
have probably encountered that alot as well with you know,
budgets being quite restrictiveon certain projects.
I guess from a clientperspective, if they understand
(13:09):
what layer of light is producingwhich mood or ambience or
effect do you find that reallyhelps in terms of what they want
to cut out?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Absolutely.
I think, hospitality that way is.
You know, when they see valuein what we are proposing, then
they are okay to spend a littleon it.
But I'll tell you, the F&Bprojects in India are shoestring
budget, so probably less thanshoestring budget, less than
(13:48):
shoe strength budget.
But yes, the clients are betteraware of what you want to
create and they will help yougetting that solution.
They will not want tocompromise on the effect, but
they would certainly want tocompromise on the kind of
fixture they want to buy.
But see in this also as anindependent practice I have seen
that.
Know if you're going to push aF&B space to buy premium
(14:11):
products, it certainly doesn'tmake sense because the shelf
life of a F&B space is not eventhree years.
So I mean it's very importantto understand the economics
behind it also.
So I think, as someone who isfrom the city, who understands
how their businesses work, whois not coming from an ecosystem
(14:34):
where the economics iscompletely different, I believe
that my clients are happybecause I understand their
businesses better.
I understand what they're doingare happy because I understand
their business is better.
I understand what they aredoing.
My suppliers are happy becausethey know that I know what they
can supply in a certain time.
I think all of this youngdesigners have to really be
(14:58):
aware of into which ecosystemthey are working in.
So I would I mean see the wholeidea of getting into VLDC was.
I wanted to share what I havegone through in this 12 years
because it's very important tounderstand the ecosystem we are
working in, correct.
(15:19):
I think if you're coming from adifferent ecosystem and
catering to a very differentecosystem, you will certainly
see that friction.
Yeah absolutely, and I think.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
On that note, I think being able to share that
knowledge is a really greatthing to be able to do.
We have a lot of young andupcoming designers.
Some are already in a practice,some are coming fresh out of
KTH and Visma and places likethat, so it's nice to be able to
(15:53):
do that.
Do you have you know now, Iguess, if we round up everything
that we've talked about andalso what you've so eloquently
put in your presentation, whatwould be maybe some final words
of advice that you would give toto young people who are looking
at um, at the lighting designprofession?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
um, I think what I would like to tell youngsters is
um, a lighting design is a very, very exciting profession
because of the variables that wedeal with.
We are dealing with science, weare dealing with art, we are
dealing with people.
So I think it's a very, veryexciting profession because you
(16:37):
are doing something new each day.
No day is a bowling day.
At the same time, understandingthe ecosystem, understanding
the people, is extremelyimportant, I feel.
End of the day, it's aboutpeople.
If you're able to connect, ifyou're able to understand, if
(16:58):
you're able to strike thedialogue, well then I think it
will be fun to work.
Of course, being able to chargethe right fee, being able to
sustain the office all that is adifferent topic altogether.
But we're getting into goodtimes.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Absolutely, Kunal.
Thank you so much.
I loved how you brought up someof these really key points in,
I guess, the journey and thebusiness of logic design.
I also love how you made itclear about you know reading
people's filters and how tocater to those different
expectations coming out of that.
But that's been a greatpresentation and also thanks for
(17:41):
sharing with us.
Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure.
You've gained some insight orinspiration that you can take
away or perhaps apply.
(18:02):
If you enjoyed this episode, itis always appreciated if you
could take a moment to share thepodcast with your peers and
friends or leave a review onyour favorite podcast app.
Consider subscribing to thepodcast and our YouTube channel
to stay up to date with ourlatest content.
Do check out our onlineplatform as well at vldcommunity
If you would like more.
(18:23):
Why not go back and listen tosome of our previous episodes
and hear more from our thoughtleaders?
Thanks for listening and wewill be back with more great
presentations or interviews verysoon.
Until next time.
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