112. Creating Healthy Sleep Habits: From Newborns to Toddlers with Verónica Ordóñez

Episode Transcript
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jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (00:00):
Hola, hola amiga.

(00:01):
Are you struggling to get yourlittle ones to sleep through the
night?
Does bedtime feel like a neverending battle that leaves you
exhausted and frustrated?
Well, you're not alone mama.
Whether you have a newborn whowakes up every two hours or a
toddler who keeps sneaking intoyour bed at 2 a.

(00:21):
m.
like mine, their journey toestablishing healthy sleep
habits can feel overwhelming,especially when navigating
cultural expectations and familydynamics.
In today's episode, I had thepleasure of speaking with
Veronica Ordonez.
A psychologist and certifiedgentle sleep coach who's here to
help moms teach their littleones the magic of independent

(00:45):
sleep.
As the founder of LullabyVeronica, her ultimate mission
is helping moms get the restthey need to feel happy,
recharged and ready to conquertheir day or just survive it.
Because we get it, mom life.
In our conversation, Veronicaopened up about how her
daughter's sleep struggles ledher to become a sleep coach.

(01:08):
We discussed everything fromnewborn sleep patterns to
toddler bedtime boundaries andhow cultural differences can
impact our approach to sleeproutines.
Veronica shared Invaluableinsights on gentle sleep
training methods that respectboth parent and child and also
debunking common myths along theway.

(01:31):
And exciting news for thetoddler mamas.
an upcoming toddler sleepsuccess no more bedtime
struggles workshop On Wednesday,February 26th, and for just 27,
you can learn expert strategiesto transform your toddler's
bedtime routine.
The link to sign up is in theshow notes.

(01:52):
But before we dive in, I want toshare a few quick reminders.
In the show notes, you'll alsofind two important links.
One where you can suggest topicsyou'd like me to cover on the
show, just like this one andanother where you can nominate
potential guests.
Maybe that's you or someonewhose story and expertise could
benefit our community of mamas.

(02:13):
I truly believe in the power ofsharing our stories and learning
from each other's experiencesand expertise.
Your suggestions help make thisshow a valuable resource for
moms looking to create theirbest version of motherhood, even
in the midst of our beautifulchaos.
And mama, if you're findingvalue in these conversations,
please, please, please take amoment to rate and review the

(02:35):
show.
Your feedback not only helpsother Latina moms find Viva La
Mami, but it also ensures thatfewer mamas feel alone in their
motherhood journey.
Whether you're listening onApple Podcasts, Spotify, or
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and likes makes a hugedifference.
So please support us as well.

(02:57):
I'm building this community foryou, for us, because we need the
space to connect, learn, andgrow together.
All right, amiga, well, nowlet's dive into today's episode
with Veronica Ordúñez fromLullaby Veronica.

(04:18):
Hola.
Hola, Veronica.
How are you?

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-20 (04:22):
I'm fine.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited.
I'm doing this.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (04:26):
Yes, I am very excited for you to be
here as well.
And ironically enough, ourkiddos are asleep right now.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03 (04:34):
That's when we get things done, right?

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (04:37):
Yes, yes, that's yeah, that's true.
That's when we're the mostproductive before we delve into
the conversation about sleep, ifyou can, introduce yourself to
our listeners and tell us alittle bit more about yourself

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03- (04:49):
sure.
Um, yeah, so hello everyone.
My name is Veronica and I'm apsychologist, a certified sleep
coach.
A mom, a wife, a daughter, afriend.
I get all the.
All the tags.
Um, so I'm from Mexico.
I grew up in Mexico, um, inMonterrey.
That's a city for those of youwho doesn't know.
It's a city on the north, northof Mexico.

(05:12):
And I was born there.
I lived there for 25 years andthen moved to Mexico City where
I met my husband.
And because of his job, we movedhere seven years ago.
So, yeah.
We, we end up moving here whenwe were both adults and our life
was pretty, um, I don't want tosay built, but like we, we never

(05:33):
dreamed of like living somewhereelse.
So that transition, when you arean adult and coming to leave it
to the U.
S.
has been, it has been reallyhard, but here we are and it's
been 7 years.
Um, as I mentioned, I'm a mom,my daughter, I have 2 kids, my
older daughter, she's 8, almost8.
And my younger son, he's almostfour.
Um, and I started in this sleep,sleep, uh, coaching journey

(05:58):
because as most of the coaches,my daughter, I don't want to say
that she was a terrible sleeperbecause I don't love.
The the term using good or badsleeper.
She just sat.
She had some needs that I wasn'table to identify at that moment
because I knew nothing aboutsleep.
So, but I knew that somethingwasn't right.
I was just laying next to hercrib, her toddler bed for like

(06:21):
an hour.
And then.
At some point I would just putup an air mattress on the floor
and just spend the night thereand I was so tired and I was
like so angry and upset and itwas just like I was not feeling
okay and I thought this is nothow motherhood is supposed to
feel.
And um, I hired a sleep coachand everything changed.

(06:42):
It was kind of like a miraclehow I felt after what my
daughter Was how she wasbehaving after was incredible.
And I decided that with mypsychology background, that's
what I wanted to do.
I wanted to help more moms feelthe same way.
And I started these stepcoaching journey.
I've been doing this for almost,uh, I think five years now.

(07:04):
Um, I have my own business.
It's called Lola by Veronica.
And I also work for a companycalled Maven where I get, uh,
clients can book consultationswith me if they have this
benefit through their company.
Um, I'm working, I'm workingwith a lot of working moms too
that are returning back to workand I love it.
I love my job.
I love what I do.

(07:25):
Um, and yeah, that's, that'sbasically me.
That's what I do.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (07:29):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing
your expertise and I am soexcited to talk about this
because I know that there's manyof us that share a similar
sentiment in terms of you.
You try to do everything thatyou can, you know, you even ask
your pediatrician, you look atall of these different articles
and resources and you just seemlike you are kind of alone in

(07:52):
this.
And, and I feel like as manymamas, we carry the, that load,
right, about how to best useeffective ways, um, and positive
ways in, in putting them tosleep.
So I, I'm very excited to talkabout that for sure.
Before we kind of go furtherinto that, like you shared your

(08:13):
experience about immigratingseven years ago as an adult, And
how you've wanted to connectwith other adults.
Uh, how has your experience beenwith connecting with Latina
moms, especially, where youlive, right?
How has that been with raisingbilingual kids?
Can you tell us about yourjourney about finding a support

(08:34):
system, considering that yourfamily's

It's not here.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (08:37):
Yeah.

Um, it has been, I don't want to say
it is hard, but it hasn't beenthat hard, but I think it's
because of my personality.
Like I talk with, If I'm like ata buying groceries and there's,
and I hear someone speakSpanish, I'm like, Hey, I speak
Spanish too.
What's your name?
And what do you do?
And we exchange phone numbers.
So I'm very open, especially atthe beginning.

(09:00):
Like I would just like, I hadlike a, like a monitor or
something and I would hearsomeone having a conversation in
Spanish and I would just likedraw, like.
Um, but then, so that's why Istarted making a lot of friends
and I start looking for likeonline communities.
There are a few groups here inAsheville, so you could just go

(09:21):
online and start going to theevents that they're doing.
It's funny because sometimes Iget like DMs on Instagram, like,
Hey, I saw that you commented ona post and in Spanish, I'm also
from like Mexico or whicheverpart, like I was just big
Spanish, like let's meet orsomething.
So.
It's funny because we are alllooking for the same things.

(09:42):
So once you start connecting andbeing more open to just knowing
more people, it just, I thinklike it falls into place.
I feel like the biggestchallenge has been, it is
different when you are born hereand when you move here as an
adult, because.
You, you, like you have thisthing, you're both from the same
place.
You both speak Spanish.
You have the same culture, butat the same time, we, we think

(10:06):
really different in some things.
So it's been hard to connectwith people that are on my same
situation.
Like, Oh, you just move here.
I find that I connect more withthose people that with people
from Mexico that have been herefor like forever, or they were
born here.
Um, and I like it because I getlike, Insight from both parts.

(10:27):
Um, but yeah, I mean, I've beenreally open.
It's been a great experience.
I have found a lot of goodfriends.
I, you mentioned, I don't havefamily here, so whenever I need
something, now I have my friendsthat I know I can leave my kids
with them if I have an emergencyand then my emergency contact is
my neighbor because he, I mean,my neighbor is not, he's an

(10:48):
American, but he's my emergencycontact for my kids.
So it's, it's, it's been hardand it's a challenge, but also.
I feel like it's a greatexperience.
Like I wouldn't change anything.
Um, I'm learning a lot and Ifeel like my kids are learning a
lot too, from like noticing howI challenged myself doing by
doing this.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (11:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah.
And I think it's all about beingintentional and finding your
village, right?
And this can be either yourmommy friends or the emergency
contact, right?
I think that that's awesome thatyou get to choose who a lot of
people that I know, like theycan't choose, like they have no

(11:28):
other way, but their family.
And sometimes they end upbutting heads or, you know, el
escándalo, sometimes thathappens within that.

drama, drama familiar, we say.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (11:38):
Yeah, the drama, yeah.

Yeah.
And you get to pick yourfriends.
That's really, that's somethingI learned.
You say yes, but also it's, it'sokay to say no.
Like I, I, I met someone and Isay yes, yes, yes.
And then at some point I can sayno, like.
I don't want to be your friendanymore.
And it's okay.
Like we both know, like there'sno chemistry.
It's okay.
We can say no and just keepfinding new friends.

(12:02):
And like, we are adults.
No one's gonna like, there's nomuch drama now.
At least that's how I feel.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201 (12:08):
That's so true.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
Yeah, we're adults can get to

veronica-ordonez (12:14):
Unfortunately.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (12:15):
Yeah, I know.
That's true.
Within that.
Yeah, it comes with a lot ofresponsibility and a lot to do
and, and, and this kind ofconversation about sleep, right?
I think that that is often a lotof the, at least that was one of
the big things that I worriedabout.
Because I, Was a night owl whenI was a baby like my mom said

(12:38):
get dumb Like yeah, so remedioto try to put me to sleep and I
was basically on third shift.
And so knowing that shestruggled with putting me into a
bed routine.
I worried that my kids weregoing to end up the same way so

(12:58):
that karma can hit me.

Did it or

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222 (13:01):
And no, they didn't thank God, but
you know, they're, they'restill, they still struggle.
Like right now I thought thelittle one was asleep, but my
husband's still trying to puthim to sleep.
Yeah.
Uh, but he's teething too.
And so it's always like that,right?
Like once when you think younailed it.
it

There's always something.
There's always like atransition, a tooth coming out,
an ear infection, a cold.
There's always something.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201 (13:27):
always something.
And so let's Go all the way backto like the newborn stage.
Cause I know that there's manynew mamas who listened to the
show.
Can you share some tips on how,you know, mom's parents can
establish a healthy sleepfoundation for a newborn how,

(13:48):
how does

The most important thing that I
would say, like, I want to startwith saying that, um, At the
beginning, sleep is not thepriority.
Like, the baby sleeping is notthe priority.
The priority is that you as amom, you recover and you adapt
to these new family dynamics.
Sometimes we, as soon as we areout of the hospital, we are

(14:10):
already like trying to figureout how many hours and how and
when and And it's not the time.
The first few weeks, it's allabout, again, getting to know
your baby, getting to knowyourself as a mom, recovering
from like, like the postpartumand delivery and whatever your
situation was.
Uh, and just get more sleep.
It doesn't matter how.

(14:30):
Most moms, they don't sleep.
Uh, really struggle with like, Idon't want to create bad habits,
so I'm not going to hold my babyto sleep, or I'm not going to
let my baby cry, or I am goingto let him cry, and again,
during the first week is just dowhatever you feel like.
Whatever you feel comfortablewith and sleep will eventually

(14:50):
come.
Um, at least during the firstfour weeks when someone like
wants to talk, I'm like, no,we're not going to talk.
You're not going to do anything.
Just focus on optimize yoursleep and recover.
After four weeks, there'sdefinitely a few things that you
can start doing and I call thislike building a healthy sleep
foundation and you go step tostep.
You're doing great.
One or two things every month,and then you're building a

(15:14):
healthy foundation.
So when your baby's closer tosix months old, when you
actually can sleep train yourbaby or teach your baby how to
sleep on his own.
You have something very, uh,like a very, uh, foundation
that's, uh, that you can startbuilding independent sleep on
top of that.
Um, and basically you can startlike the first when, as soon as

(15:35):
your baby turns one month old,and if you feel ready, you can
start with something as easy asputting your baby down on a
sleep friendly environment.
Just make sure it's dark andit's like quiet that you have
white noise that everything'scalm.
And that's it.
As long as you're just puttingyour baby down in a friendly
environment.
Around the same time every nightThat's okay.

(15:56):
That's the best that you can do.
After that, you start regulatingbed time and wake up time.
So let's say around eight weeks,you can start like building a
routine.
Like, okay, every night at 9 p.
m.
I'm gonna go upstairs.
I'm gonna do the last feeding ofthe day.
I'm gonna change diaper.
I'm gonna put pajamas.
I'm gonna turn the lights offand put my baby down or rock my

(16:19):
baby or do whatever your routineis and just be very consistent
with that.
Uh, and with waking up your babyat the next day.
So okay, I'm going to put mybaby down at nine and wake him
up every day at eight.
And that's what you do.
You repeat that.
So you already have two things.
You're putting your baby down ina sleep friendly environment.
Now you're putting your babydown at the same time and waking

(16:40):
him up at the same time everyday.
So, You're building kind of likea routine and a schedule.
Um, when babies are closer to 12weeks, that's when there's your
kiddie and rhythm kicks in.
That's when they actually knowwhen night and daytime is.
And we start pushing bedtimeearlier.
That's when babies are morelike.

(17:02):
Go to bed between 30, which isthe time that most, uh, babies
from 12 weeks up to maybe fiveyear old kids.
That's the bedtime that weusually recommend.
And then their wake up time willalso adjust to anything, anytime
between 6 and 7.
30.
So now you're, you have like amore, uh, consistent schedule.

(17:25):
You won't see any consistency onnaps during the first months
because naps are all over theplace.
I always tell my patients likedo not worry about naps.
You have like a free pass.
Short naps are okay.
Long naps are okay.
As long as your baby is gettingan average of like four to five
hours depending on the age, youare on the right track.
Just keep doing what you'redoing.
Um, and then once your baby getscloser to five point five or

(17:49):
six, That's when you, we startintentionally teaching about
independent sleep, like puttingyour baby that the famous drowsy
but awake that I'm sure mostmoms are part of it.
It will not, it probably willnot work before five months and
we just get so stressed aboutwhy, why would my baby is not
okay with me putting him downbecause he's a baby and he, I

(18:12):
mean, he's not supposed to knowhow.
Um, so if you're holding yourbaby to sleep, you're rocking
your baby to sleep, you'renursing your baby to sleep.
It's fine.
Those are cool power toolsduring the first month where
you're going to create habits.
Yes.
But habits are meant to bebroken, so you will be able to
break that habit later when youare ready and when your baby's

(18:35):
ready.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
And yeah, I mean this, this isawesome because I think that
you're kind of allowing naturetake its course sort of thing,
but obviously, uh, beingstrategic and, and.
Setting kind of like afoundation, especially when it
comes to, you know, the, thefirst, uh, couple of weeks

(19:01):
where, you know, it doesn't haveto be, um, Like a specific plan
it can just be as easy asputting the sound Machine on so
that it does create thatfoundation and I love it.
I I remember Yeah, like that wasthe easy part they were newborns
Like they never fussed or criedand then yeah, the the hard part

(19:23):
came when they were about six

Yeah.
Yeah.
Because when they cry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, like, they cry, andthey, they just need you to hold
them, and that's the easiestpart, like, and then, It's funny
because back then when we aregoing through it, we don't want
to hold him anymore.
We're like, I just want to beable to put them down.
And you're like, no, that's theeasy part.
Now I want to hold my three yearold.
And he would not like, he juststruggles and fight.

(19:47):
Like, no, I want to walk.
This

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (19:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so interesting.
And so you mentioned thisbriefly about your daughter, how
you were trying to find ways, tohelp and support her sleep and,
and with you being, um, apsychologist, obviously sleep
and development kind ofintertwined together, right?

(20:12):
Like, I think there is overall,like, if you establish healthy
sleep habits, kids, babies, Youknow, oftentimes you're setting
them up for success for theirgrowth and well being.
And so considering that, and youknow, obviously you can delve
more into this because this isyour, your area of expertise,

(20:33):
but tell us a little bit moreabout your daughter's situation
and, and how did that overallinfluence you to decide on being
a sleep coach?

this is really interesting because it
ended up being something, like,even though I became sleep coach
and it got better, I ended upgoing with a sleep doctor, which
is a huge thing.
Um, so at the moment, eventhough, like, I was a
psychologist, I had no ideaabout, like, development.
I have no idea.

(21:02):
What a toddler should likebehave, what were like the
characteristics.
So I was lost.
Like she was not sleeping at theright time.
She was not napping.
Like everything was out ofplace.
I feel like at that time therewas not that many information
online, like social media andnot that many sleep coaches.
So I had no idea what to do orwhat to expect or whatever.

(21:23):
So the funny thing is thatafter, after I started working
with a sleep coach, It got waybetter with very simple tweaks,
like being consistent with howyou respond.
And she was two and a half, soit was about establishing
healthy boundaries about.
The rules at night, like therules is that you are staying in
your, on your bed all night andthe rules are that if you wake

(21:46):
up, you need to go back to sleepon your own.
So it's with toddlers, it's allabout being very consistent and
being sure that they know what'sexpected from them.
Um, and as a prime being veryconsistent, like, if you already
said, no, it's a non negotiableand you're going to sleep in
your bed.
And I always like to put anexample as the car seat.

(22:07):
So the car seat is a nonnegotiable and a lot of babies
cry and then since it'ssomething that it's a, it's a
boundary that you cannot break.
They end up being in the carseat or booster for like eight
years.
So the same thing happened withsleep.
Like if it's not negotiable thatthey should sleep in their crib
or their bed, or like do notleave their room in the middle

(22:29):
of the night, you're just goingto understand, but they're going
to fight it and fight it.
So the thing is that it got waybetter.
She was sleeping in her ownroom, but there was something
like when she was three or four,she would tell me like, mom, I'm
tired.
So she would wake up, wake upvery early.
She's always been an earlyriser.
And she would say like, mom, I'mtired.
And I would like, she had likedark eyes.

(22:51):
So I talked to my pediatrician.
I'm like, I'm a sleep coach.
I'm doing everything right.
Like she has the right schedule,the right rules, the right, uh,
healthy sleep habits andsomething's not okay.
And it took me like a year toget the recommendation from my
pediatrician to go and see asleep doctor, because I knew
that they are, A sleep disordersthat toddlers or even babies can

(23:12):
have so we end up doing a sleepstudy, which is like you are all
connected so they can sense yoursleep waves and the way your
body moves.
And she was having trouble withher breathing, like she was
everything here, like, it's nota sleep apnea.
Uh, but everything's so smallhere that she was, she's having

(23:35):
trouble breathing.
So in the middle of the night,she would, that was waking her
up very often and she was notgetting a deep, deep sleep.
She was not going through allthe sleep like phases.
Anyway, it was something assimple as just using a spray, a
nasal spray.
And it changed a lot.
Like she was not tired anymore.
She was more functional.
And, and the thing is that youhave to go through all this

(23:57):
phases of working on healthysleep habits.
And if you are doing all thethings and you still have a
sense, like you're, when you arethe mom, you know, when
something's off, if you knowthat something's off then push
to like, until you find thesolution.
And as for now, she's been usingthe spray and I mean, we'll
still working on healthy sleep.
She knows that.
No TB before bed and we get theroom ready and she has a

(24:22):
schedule.
I mean, she's eight now.
She goes to bed like at eight.
Um, but still like, we are veryconsistent with a few things so
that it still works.
And most of the advice, thefunny thing is that applies to
adults too.
Like having a routine, aschedule, it's just, it's for
everyone.
And if you start teaching your,your kids the importance at that
age, they're just gonna, Or growup knowing what's healthy and

(24:47):
how a healthy routine lookslike.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (24:50):
Yeah, that's, I'm glad that you said
that because, um, At least forme, I, I didn't really have a
specific routine necessarily, Ithink.
Well, I guess, Yes, I mean, we,we kind of had a routine, but we
slept pretty late, you know, andI remember we would just like be

(25:14):
at my grandma's house and wewould have dinner all the way
until like 8pm, 9pm.
And then we would go to bed atlike 10pm.
Right.
And then here comes the next daywhere we had to wake up super
early and, and I see that a lotin Latino community, like
households.

yeah,

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222 (25:35):
I still have a lot of aunts, tias,
you know, like who are stillnot, even though they have their
phone at their disposal, like,I'm like, well, it is, you know,
you have little ones, like,these kids need to go to sleep.
And then I also feel like, Noone has ever said this.
No one has confronted me or myhusband about, Oh, y'all are too

(25:58):
strict or whatever, but youknow, we, we still want to
maintain, uh, a healthy sleepschedule and routine even on
weekends.
Sometimes we're a little loose,right.
But I would say definitely nolater than 10 PM because then it
comes back to

veronica-ordonez_1_02- (26:15):
exactly.
The next day

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222 (26:16):
The next day Yeah.
And.
I don't know if you've workedwith clients, right, who are,
you know, first, second gen whoare trying to break from the
things that we grew up seeingwith our families and not having
that schedule and routine,right, like, what would you say

(26:36):
to a mom who's struggling withthat who really wants to
establish a healthy sleeproutine and foundation overall,
but perhaps they feel a Likethey're going to be criticized
because, yeah, like they'reputting their kids first versus
like la quinceanera that'shappening next weekend, you
know?
Ya

really good, um, question because yes,
I work with like, I work withAmerican families and then I
work with Latino families andwith families that are like in
India and Spain.
It's really interesting to see.
the cultural differences.
So yeah, in Mexico we put babiesand it's, and it's kind of
changing, but we are used to,like, my mom says the same

(27:17):
thing.
Like, why do you, why?
Like, I feel like she doesn'teven like knows exactly why I'm
a sleep coach.
Like, I don't know why you dowhat you do.
I don't know why you're gettingmoney by that because I didn't
need that.
And you're fine.
Right.
Um,

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (27:31):
bien,

yeah, like you're fine.
You're turning out really good.
Um, so one of the firstquestions that I always ask my
patients is what's your goal?
Like, what do you want toachieve?
And then we go from there.
Uh, and I have worked withfamilies that.
say, you know what?
I want to be able to put my babydown from Monday to Friday.
I on a schedule, but I want tobe able to just like, be able to

(27:54):
break that schedule or have alate schedule during the
weekends, because that's when Ihave like, I go out and I have
family time or whatever, and wework around that.
Um, so I always tell them like,it is possible.
Uh, it's always hard when theholidays are around, like, like,
uh, Posadas and all that.

(28:14):
Um, so you have, You can eitherengage in a conversation on
trying to convince them, which Idon't recommend.
I always tell them to you.
You know what?
Thanks for that.
But it's working for us.
It works from Monday to Fridayand it works for like the other
360 days of the year that we arealone.
Thanks for the recommendation.
But I think we're going to thinkabout that and probably I've

(28:37):
discussed that with my, with myhusband and thank you, like,
just be very gentle and say,thank you.
And then the rest of the days orthe rest of the year or the rest
of the week, you're just goingto do what works for you.
And then one night, two nightsof being very flexible.
It's fine.
When you have a very healthysleep foundation, it's easier.

(28:59):
Uh, to go out of the scheduleinstead of the other way around.
Sometimes we think that if weput them on a schedule and it's
going to be so hard for them tohave a late night on a Saturday,
but it's the other way around.
Like, they are so good duringthe week.
Then if they have a late night,you know what to do the next
day, you know, like he startedsleep.
I'm just going to do an extranap and I know that he likes to
sleep this way.

(29:20):
So you just go back.
And even when you go onvacation, like, you just embrace
it.
And he's like, okay, it's goingto be a mess during vacation.
He's going to go to bed late andhe's going to be very like wake
up very early in the morning andit's fine.
He's just going to nap and whenwe're back home, we're just
going to be back into routineand it's going to work out like

(29:40):
you need to have this veryactive, flexible, uh, mentality
in order to like to survivebecause that's the way things
are.
Even me that I got to have myfamily here.
Every Saturday, my kids sleep atlike 11 or maybe midnight.
And I know the next day iscrazy.
And I was like, the next day I'mlike, Oh, why, why did I do

(30:02):
this?
But then it was worth it.
The next day they are super.
Uh, fussy and I'm fussy and weare screaming at each other.
And then on Monday we're allhappy and back to our happy
selves.
So,

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20 (30:17):
willing to take that sacrifice for one
day.
Yeah, no, yeah, that makessense.
I love that you mentioned howevery family is going to be
different.
It's going to work for them in adifferent way.
Uh, because yeah, I, I totallyagree.
I think to what point though, doyou think that families should

(30:39):
create?
a better routine?
Is it usually when they, whenkids are really fussy or, you
know, when it does affect them,like let's say in school or to
what point, should a, a parentreally set like a routine when
it comes to their sleep?

Um, usually when I see that
something's not working in themiddle of the night.
So if you don't have a routine,but your baby, like it's
sleeping through the night, he'snot waking up, he's happy.
He's not always tired.
He's not super fuzzy.
He's cry being pediatricians.
This is, he's like growing fine.
Then it's fine.
Like I always, I have this rule.

(31:19):
If it's not broken, do not tryto fix it because sometimes it
works.
I have met families that theysay like, yeah, my.
Kids go to bed at 10 and theywake up at seven and they're
fine.
And I'm like, Oh my God, how dothey do it?
But they are functional.
So if it's not broken, do nottry to fix it.
But if you come to me and saylike my, my toddler, he's waking

(31:40):
up in the middle of the night afew times, he's having a hard
time falling asleep.
He's having night terrors.
He's coming to my bed everynight.
It's taking like an hour for himto fall asleep.
He's not napping.
He's having like a lot ofmeltdowns.
Then the first thing that wecheck is the schedule, like
making sure that you have aroutine, that he's sleeping at a

(32:00):
time that he's supposed to besleeping, waking up at the time
that he's appropriate for hisage and napping the amount of
time that he is.
And sometimes you don't evenknow, like need like a whole
sleep training.
You just need to make a fewtweaks.
And it works.
It's just like, Oh my God, I putmy baby down an hour earlier and
everything fell into place.
So sometimes it's very easy, butthe impact that a good schedule

(32:23):
has is It's amazing how it canchange things.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (32:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
I couldn't agree with you.
Yeah.
And so for us mamas who are inthe middle of like trying to
sleep train our babies likebabies babies right at six
months what type of methods arethere and and i definitely have
heard of the cry out method i'veheard of the ferber method and

(32:53):
all of these different things alot of moms freak out about the
crying out method specifically.
Like, can you debunk some sleeptraining myths and explain what
your approach is, uh, towardslike a more gentler, like sleep.

Yeah.
So the method that I use, it'scalled gentle sleep, uh,
coaching.
And this is something thatpeople think like, okay, with a
gentle method, my baby's notgoing to cry.
And with the cry it out, mybaby's going to cry a lot.
And it's not like that babiescry.
Like that's the only way thatthey know how to say like, mom,
pick me up.
I don't like this.
Or mom, you were like, Nursingme to sleep yesterday.

(33:36):
What happened today?
Like, so crying is the only waythat they know how to
communicate, right?
Um, so crying is not bad.
The difference between a gentlermethod and a regular like fervor
or cry it out is yourinvolvement as a parent.
So with extinction method orwith any cry it out, you
basically like put your babydown and you leave the room.

(33:58):
And it can vary.
You either stay outside the roomuntil your baby falls asleep,
but it can take an hour, twohours or whatever.
You can do some checkings, likeyou go in and say like, you're
fine and do it every threeminutes and then every five.
And there are a lot ofvariations, but that's like the
minimal involvement.
And then with a more gentlemethod, you're just there by

(34:20):
their side while they go throughthis.
So they are going through alearning curve, right?
Like you put them down andthey're like, Hmm, what is this?
I don't like this.
And they cry and then they turnaround and they sit and they're
like, Hmm, okay, maybe I can doit.
And they try and then they cryagain and that's what they do
for like an hour or two.
Um, so if you're there like bytheir side and then you're just

(34:44):
there, Letting them know thatyou are supporting them through
this challenge.
Like, okay, you're going throughsomething, but I'm here.
You're holding their hand,you're touching them, you're
using your voice to reassure.
And I like this because I feellike they just feel more, uh,
content and safe.
Like, okay, this is somethingrough.

(35:04):
I have to do it on my own, butmy mommy's here or my daddy or
whatever.
Um, again, there's nothing wrongwith the crying.
Some people think like if theycry, you're going to scar them
for life.
Like, obviously, if they cry forthree hours every day, And
you're not attending their needsand you're not changing the
diaper.
You're not feeding him.
Obviously the attachment thatyou're building is not going to

(35:26):
be nice.
Good.
But if you're with your baby allday, attending their like basic
needs, and then if by the end ofthe day, you try to teach them
something and it's hard forthem, but you're there, they are
actually learning that that's asecure attachment, like someone
with me while I go through thesehard times.
So, um, that's the maindifference.

(35:47):
One thing that I always tell mypatients is because they ask
like, when's the right time?
Is it the six months or oneyear?
The right time is whenever youfeel ready, because if you do it
at six months, just becauseeveryone, everyone else is doing
it, but you don't feel ready oryou feel like your baby's not
ready.
It's not going to work becauseyou're going to end up, maybe
he's going to cry for 30 minutesand you're going to pick him up,

(36:09):
or you're just not going to beable to stay consistent.
So

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (36:12):
hmm.

it there's, it's, it's never late.
You can start when they're likeeven five or maybe older.
Um, some parents decide to waitto see if they can actually
learn on their own and it canhappen.
Like babies can learn on theirown at six months or three years
or at eight years, like younever know.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (36:32):
Yeah.

veronica-ordonez_1_02- (36:33):
whenever you feel ready, you're not
comfortable with the situation,and you're ready to start
working, that's the right time.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (36:39):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I appreciate you sharing thatbecause it, it's all gonna
depend on the family dynamic,the situation that families are
in, and I think that we get soinfatuated with.
What we see on social media.
And I think that that in itselfhas benefits, but definitely

(37:03):
disadvantages, I think, becausewe can't, you know, really
listen to our own intuitionreally.
And I know that you shared how,like when your daughter, when
she was younger, like, you know,you shared that there wasn't a
lot of information out there.
And for me, I'm like, Oh, Ithink like there's so much
information overload that youreally don't know what direction

(37:24):
to go.
To you know when it comes tosleep And I appreciate you
sharing that there is anotherapproach than like the popular
ones because a lot of times, youknow, we we do feel
Uncomfortable.
I think that we definitely didthat cry out method with diego
and my mom was like And we'relike, well, this is this is the

(37:44):
one thing that I know I don'tknow and And we kind of tried it
and we're like, yeah, we're nota fan of this and then we just
did it Decided to do, I have noidea.
Our random approach,

online, something, something.

jessica_1_02-03-2025 (37:57):
something, something, yeah.
And then with Mateo, I mean,this kid, I don't know, we're,
we're still struggling just alittle bit and I'm like, dang, I
wonder if it's because we didn'treally set like an actual, sleep
training on him, but.
I feel like we're still insurvival mode with

With him, well, he's, he's still
young.
He's, he's not two yet, right?
He's at 20 months.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (38:23):
Yeah, he's 20 months and so he's,
yeah, and I think he's right nowhe, he definitely sleeps through
the night, which is great.
Um, he weaned, he self weaned tolike, um, a couple months ago,
which I'm still like sad, butI'm like, no, this is great
because he, he just doesn't wakeup in the middle of the night.

(38:43):
Now with Diego, who just turnedfour for some reason for the
past two months, he has beenwaking up in the middle of the
night and we.
I don't know.
He's dropped his nap.
He doesn't want to nap in theafternoons and he's very
reluctant on that even though Iknow that he's tired.
I know he's sleepy and so we'vedefinitely Have put him a little

(39:06):
bit earlier to bed.
So he sleeps Sleep time startsat 7 and by 7 30, he's usually
asleep But he still keeps wakingup in the middle of the night.
So I'm just like what's goingon?
and so I know that oftentimestoddlers have like what you
shared those like night terrorsII They go through the sleep
regressions.

(39:26):
So like What are some of thosecommon challenges faced by
toddlers and and how can wenavigate these challenging times
because they're also like inschool right and they have a
specific schedule to wake up inthe

to follow

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222 (39:46):
and and yeah yeah so what what are
some approaches here for

for toddlers.
So first, first, things first, Iwant everyone to understand that
toddlers or kids are allowed tohave bad nights too.
Like, you know, sometimes youare in a role like this week it
was rough.
I'm waking up a lot and youdon't know why.
So sometimes it's, maybe it'ssomething you eat, something you
watch on TV, like maybe you haveanxiety because something's

(40:12):
happening, but they go throughthe same things.
Like maybe something changed atschool, like even like a new
student or something changed andthat's like, it gives them like
anxiety and they might like wakeup a little bit more.
So understanding that that'snormal too, that they can have
bad nights.
That's just one thing becausesometimes it's just two nights

(40:34):
and we're like no everythinglike everything's out of place
And this is so hard.
It's been two nights.
It just Keep it a break.
Obviously, if it's been likemore than two weeks, then, okay,
let's go back and see what'shappening.
Um, with toddlers, the mainstruggles or the main challenges
is that they love to pushboundaries.
So, they will always wake up inthe middle of the night, right?

(40:55):
But when they are toddlers,they're like, Hmm, what if I go
to my parents room?
What if I ask them that I wantto stay?
Like, it's all about pushingyour buttons and, you know, Like
just testing all those limitsand boundaries to see how
consistent you are and to see ifthey can just, um, like, they
defy authority.
So it's all about the limits.

(41:16):
So it's very hard for us becausewe need to stay very consistent
with the things that weestablished in the beginning.
They can have, so that's onething they can have night
terrors and nightmares.
Those usually start betweenaround two.
And I mean, they Nightmares stayfor a long time.
Um, the most important thingabout nightmares is just to

(41:36):
understand that it is that theyare actually scared of
something, even if we know thatit's not true, like no, a shark
is not under your bed, we knowfor a fact that it's not there,
like the fear that like they'refeeling it's real, so we don't
just leave them there, we try tolike help them and what I like
to do is treat them as.

(41:57):
As we would treat a friend,like, okay, what would you say
to a friend that comes andthey're like, I'm having a
nightmare, I cannot go back tosleep.
You'll probably say like, hey,think of something positive,
breathe, uh, maybe use yourphone and like listen to a
meditation or something in themiddle of the night so you can
forget the idea.
So I like to have that sameapproach with toddler, like,

(42:17):
hey, let's talk about somethingyou love.
So instead of talking about thenightmare, let's do the
opposite.
What do you do today?
Uh, what's your favoritecartoon?
Uh, what do you want to dreamof?
Do you want to dream about aunicorn and what color is a
unicorn?
So you start like replacing thebad thoughts with good thoughts.
And that's also very useful whenthey, when they are very

(42:41):
anxious, because at that age,when they go to bed at night and
everything's dark, that's whenthey start thinking the bad
thoughts as we are, that's whenyou start thinking on your to do
list and your presentation forthe next day.
And like, All the things thatyou shouldn't be thinking, you
start when you're laying in bedwith lights out.
The same thing happened to them.
So be very mindful about likehelping them visualize good

(43:02):
thing, um, reading, um, so thatthey can learn how to manage
that instead of redoing it forthem.
Um, and again, being veryconsistent with the rules.
If we bend the rules one day,they don't understand
exceptions.
They don't know like, Ooh, itwas because I was sick.
No, no, no.
Even when they're not sickanymore, they're going to start

(43:24):
asking again to go to your bedbecause they know that it's It's
an option, right?
Um, I always use like a sleepmanner chart when needed.
So for example, if you have theright schedule and Diego, you
said Diego is your older one,like he's waking up a lot.
It's not about teaching him ormaking him not wake up in the

(43:45):
middle of the night.
It's about teaching him on whatto do when that happens.
So you know what Diego, thathappens to me a lot.
I sometimes wake up in themiddle of the night.
And you know what?
It helps if I stay in my bed andclose my eyes and count to 10.
Or it helps if I stay in bed andmaybe sing a song or count my

(44:06):
fingers or like, just give himsome strategies that you
actually use and acknowledgethat the fact that he's waking
up, there's nothing wrong withthat because it's something
that's, that he's not able tocontrol.
What he can control is whathappens.
When he wakes up, like you canstay in your bed, you can think
about this and you can do thisor go to the restroom or have a

(44:27):
sip of water.
At some point, I told mydaughter, you can grab a book.
If you're having a hard timefalling asleep, turn on your
night, night, night, read abook, and then you'll feel
sleepy.
And I would see her through themonitor like reading and she
will go like, because it wasworking.
I'm like, okay, once thathappened, close your book and
go, go to sleep.
So at least they know that theyshouldn't go and wake you up.

(44:50):
They can do it on their own.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (44:52):
Yeah,

I don't know if that was helpful.
Was that the answer that youwere expecting?
Yeah.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2012 (44:57):
Well, no, I, I mean, I obviously don't
want this to be a consultationfor me, but I'm sure that this
is a similar sentiment acrossthe board.
Like I know so many of Diego'sfriends, like moms in school,
like they're like, my kid keepswaking up in the middle of the
night and you know, they keepcoming to us and that's how it
is too.

(45:17):
Like, I think.
It could be because this is likeeveryone's first year in pre k
three right and It's probablylike their little brains are
just like activated.
I don't know But yeah, Diegokeeps coming On our bed and and
sometimes I don't even feel him.
I'm like, how did he open thedoor?

(45:39):
And my husband though, he's alittle loose like he he just
lets him sleep over and I'm likeno don't let him like, you know,
but I do believe though that wedefinitely need to set those
boundaries because ultimately wewant him to be successful,
right?
We don't want him to just likekeep doing this out of a habit
and it's not so necessarily likea reason, you know, behind it.

(46:03):
And so yeah, thank you forsharing that.

and and I'm having a toddler
workshop this month and we'refocusing on that.
Like how to stop thosebehaviors.
So I'm going to send you thelink to see if like any of the
listeners would like to sign upfor that because it is a hard,
it's like toddlers.
They can talk and they are veryconvincing and creative in the
middle of the night and you'relike, So, and again, once we let

(46:30):
them do it and there's nothingwrong, like I have worked with
families that they just like,yeah, my toddler comes to my bed
every night and I'm okay withit.
But then sometimes we're notlike, I was not okay with that.
And I actually end up putting ababy gate on my daughter's door
when she was like three, almostfour.
And it was not because she wasnot able, like she was able to
unlock the door.

(46:51):
But I told her like, that's justa reminder for you to remember
that you cannot leave your room.
And she was like, Oh, okay.
Um, and it worked like she wouldwake up and she would see the
gate and like, okay, I need tostay here.
She was really motivated.
Like I can do this because shewas getting a sticker and lots
of praise on the night that shewould actually stay in her room.
And she was still waking up, butat least she was staying in her

(47:13):
room.
And then when they wake up andthey know that there's nothing
out there for them, they just goback to sleep.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201 (47:20):
right, right, yeah, okay.
Wow.
Well, yes, definitely share thatlink.
I might possibly join toobecause I feel like, yeah, this
is, this is a habit and thenhe's It's so funny, he keeps
like.
He walks into our bed, and thenhe's like, Tengo sed.
And I'm like, well, you get itlike, you know, and then he

(47:44):
grabs it from his room becausehe has to sleep with his water
bottle next to him.
And then, then he puts it on mynightstand, you know, you can do
this in your room, but whatever.
And, and I love it.

Yeah, it is.
it is.
And that's what I say, likesometimes they do learn on their
own.
Sometimes after brain, like youare allowed to not do, like
don't do anything and just waitit out.
And it might be like by two anda half, your baby is sleeping on
his own in his own toddler bed.
And nothing's wrong, but you canalso end up with a 10 year old
not being able to, like, theydon't know what to do when they

(48:20):
wake up.
Because we all wake up in themiddle of the night.
I wake up in the middle of thenight, and I know exactly what
to do.
Like, I know how to switchposition, how to, like, use my
pillow this way.
And if I'm having a hard time, Iactually, like, grab a book, and
it, like, I know what to do.
So that's why I want to send my,my kids for success.
Like when these happens, becauseit's going to happen, this is

(48:41):
what you're going to do.
This is what works for me.
Let's find out what works foryou.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (48:45):
Yes.
Yes.

yeah, sometimes you're going to have
those nights where they come toyour room and like, I'm having a
nightmare and you just need tokeep them extra support.
Like that's just.
I sometimes have nightmare and Iwake up my husband like, Hey,
I'm having a nightmare.
Just hold my hand.
Right.
So, um, yeah, I mean, it is, itis very good to establish that
foundation and start teachingthem about healthy sleep now

(49:11):
they're there because they're,it's going to set them for
success.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222 (49:15):
Oh, I love it.
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
And it's also giving them thatself advocacy too.
And that way they know how toapproach it.
Yeah.
Instead of, yeah, just dependingon us.
And yeah, that's so true.
So we talked about babies.
We talked about toddlers.
How about mamás?

(49:37):
How should we also prioritizeour sleep and really take care
of ourselves?
And how helping our kids sleepindependently, kind of going
back to this conversation, likehow does that ultimately
contribute to our own wellbeing?
Um, yeah.

baby, if he has a rough night, he's
going to fall asleep in the carseat the next day or like when
they're sleepy and they're,they're going to fall asleep.
And you're not allowed to dothat because you need to work.
You need to cook.
You need to like do all thethings.
So sleep training and sleepingthrough the night is not just
for the kids.
It's for all like we need.

(50:24):
six to eight hours at night tojust recover and be our best
version the next day.
There's a lot of research outthere that it says like, if
you're not sleeping at leastlike six hours for at least four
hours straight, but if you'renot getting like at least four,
that's the minimum.
you have like less patience withyour kids.

(50:44):
Like you are more prone to, ifyour kid is does something,
you're going to just jump intoa, uh, like a solution, a fast
solution that might not be thebest one, but you just like act
like, very quick withoutthinking.
Um, and then even your, yourdiet, like if you're on a diet
and you're, you're trying tostay consistent with healthy

(51:05):
habits on eating, you're Ifyou're not sleeping well,
there's actually a lot ofresearch that says that you tend
to choose like sugary foods orfoods that are more like high in
carbs or whatever that you don'tneed just because your body is
craving that, is craving thatlike fast energy.
So Um, we need the sleep.

(51:26):
Um, once you teach your baby andyour baby sleeping and like
through the night, your baby hasa routine, a schedule nights,
your turn, like you need to havehealthy sleep boundaries to
like, do not watch TV an hourbefore going to bed, have a
routine.
Like, okay, I'm going to go tobed at the same time every
night.
And I'm going to wake up at thesame time every morning and have

(51:49):
a routine.
That's the best thing that youcan do.
at night and in the morning.
So, um, yeah, basically thosetwo things are the most
important for, for moms.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (52:01):
Yes, thanks for putting it out there.
I think it's definitelyimportant.
That is like my non negotiable,even though yes, I still get
tired.
Like, I get so tired by 2pm.
I'm just like, where's my nap?
But I yeah, I really, reallyappreciate it.
Um, and advocate for them.
Like I need to have at least sixhours.
Otherwise I'm not going tofunction.

(52:22):
And, This is a reminder for allthe moms out there that we need
to definitely prioritize oursleep.
Cause otherwise we get likedysregulated, we get upset.
And I, that's interesting thatyou mentioned about the foods
too, how our body craves for thenot so good foods, because yeah,
perhaps we're, you know, Missingout on the time that we should

(52:43):
be sleeping,

and I feel like your kids deserve
your best version and your bestversion will be when you're well
rested.
Uh, when you actually can playwith them during the day,
sometimes like, well, I wantthem close to me at night.
But then, okay, maybe you're,you're co sleeping and you're
not comfortable, your toddler iskicking you, and then the next
day you're all grumpy.

(53:05):
So it's better to just, maybeyou're not co sleeping, but
during the day, because you werelike, you slept really good,
during the day you're playing,you're in the floor with them.
And with toddlers, I, I, tellparents that let them know, like
when you have a good night, likemaybe they slept through the
night and they didn't woke youup.

(53:25):
Say things like, Oh my God, Ifeel so good because last night
I didn't wake up at all.
So you know what?
I have 10 minutes to take a walkwith you or do that running that
you love or go and jump in thetrampoline or go and I don't
know, like let them know thenwhen you are well rested, they
get the best version of you.

(53:46):
And it's, I mean, you don't haveto say it all day, but at least
once and, and that they willstart understanding like, yeah,
when my mom sleeps through thenight, she's going She's more
happy and she's more funny.
And when I sleep through thenight, I'm happier and I'm like,
I feel better because they do,like they, they cannot relate
that, but after four, they canstart like kind of figuring that

(54:08):
out.
So you can start.
Letting them know.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (54:12):
Love it.
That's a great tip.
Yeah.
Thanks for that.
Yeah.
And so what are ways that peoplecan work with you when it comes
to sleep training?
Tell us a little bit more aboutyour offers.

I work with, um, families with
babies, zero months, even whenthey are pregnant, like I do a
workshop where I teach them whatto expect during the first
weeks, but basically zero monthsto four or sometimes five year
olds.
That depends on, on, on thesituation.
And I do one on oneconsultations.

(54:47):
I do mini consultations and likefull one hour consultations.
I love the mini consultationsbecause I know like our busy
lives sometimes we just, Hey, Ijust have a few questions
because sometimes you spend morelike time and money, like
online, like buying these carsand then looking at these reels
and researching these accountsand the other.

(55:07):
So if we sit for 30 minutes,Sometimes that's more useful and
we just like schedule ordropping an app or a transition.
Transitioning out of theparent's bed or transitioning to
their own room.
Like all those little thingsthat you just have a few
questions.
That's what we do on manyconsultations.
I also do sleep training, sleepcoaching, which is a, like we

(55:28):
work together for one month andwe go from whatever sleep
process you have, like nursingyour baby to sleep and your baby
sleeping in your room too, well,it depends on the goal, but it's
basically I want my baby tosleep through the night in his
own crib.
So we.
We go there.
It looks different to everyfamily.
Uh, I consider like your baby'stemperament, family dynamics,

(55:50):
and like a lot of things that Itake into account to create a
sleep plan.
Um, and I do have onlineworkshops and webinars once a
month, um, for newborns and thismonth I'm working on toddlers
and it's going to be on February26th.
So I have a lot going on.
There's always either online.

(56:11):
Also, if you are in theNashville area, I have a few pop
up sessions, like in person,when you bring your babies and
we sit on the floor and we justtalk about sleep.
Um, so yeah, any, any, any waythat you want to, like, I just
have 30 minutes.
Let's do it.
I have the whole month.
Let's do it.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_20122 (56:29):
I'll definitely share all the links
in the description as well as onthe website for this particular
episode and that way people can,uh, you connect with you because
I think this is very important,especially within our community.
I hardly.
see or hear Latina sleepcoaches.
And so I think that you're doingan amazing job for, uh, you

(56:53):
know, all moms, right?
Uh, obviously you're not very,uh, intended for Latina moms,
but at least for those Latinamoms that are looking for
someone that is culturallyunderstanding or even bilingual,
I think there's a lot ofbenefits to that and how we can
kind of it.
you know, just debunk some ofthe myths that are within a lot

(57:13):
of the sleep practices that wetend to not really believe in,
whether if it's that crying outmethod but also like creating a
schedule and a solid foundationfor our kids.
I think that is very important.
And one more question for you,which I often ask at the end of
my interview, how are youredefining motherhood?

I think by putting moms first.
And letting moms know that it'snot a sacrifice.
It shouldn't be a sacrificebeing a mom.
Like just because I'm a mom, Ishould sacrifice my sleep, or
just because I'm a mom I shouldsacrifice this.
So I want moms to know that itshouldn't be like that.

(58:00):
You can go first and it's okayto put yourself first or your
health first.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222 (58:06):
No, I love it.
Yes.
Well, thank you, Veronica,again, so much for being here.
I think that there's a A lot ofinformation that I even learned
about and I'll definitely signup

to my

jessica_1_02-03-2025_2 (58:19):
webinar.
Yes.

helpful for both your kids, so for for
both of them.

jessica_1_02-03-202 (58:25):
absolutely.
Yes.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here.
I appreciate it.

Thank you.
Thank you so, so much.

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