September 2, 2025 • 31 mins
The lifesaving work happening behind the scenes at Ohio's 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is both humbling and extraordinary. With over 592,000 contacts in just three years—approximately 700-800 daily—the service has become a critical resource for Ohioans experiencing mental health crises.
What makes this number even more remarkable is the human connection happening with each call. As 988 specialist Pru Hudson shares, "Somebody's having their worst day ever so what could be more important than being able to hold space with them?" This philosophy drives the dedicated professionals who answer these calls within an average of just 23 seconds—significantly faster than the national average of 34 seconds.
The podcast reveals the deeply personal motivations behind those who staff the crisis line. Doug Jackson, who administers the 988 system, found his way to this work after hiking the entire Appalachian Trail, an experience that gave him "a different life perspective."
Hudson, with decades of experience in social work, describes the profound impact of simply being present for someone in crisis: "The loudest message you can send to another person is I'm here, I'm waiting, whatever your crisis is, we're in this together."
Perhaps most powerful is the understanding that 988 serves as a judgment-free space where callers define what constitutes a crisis for them. No identification is required, no time limits imposed. The vision for 988's future includes expanding awareness beyond the current 36-50% of Ohioans who know about the service and developing additional resources like mobile crisis units to create a comprehensive mental health emergency response system. The ultimate goal? As Jackson puts it, ensuring that "mental health resources would be on an equal level of physical health needs."
Whether you're personally struggling or concerned about someone else, 988 is waiting to help and so is the entire team at OSPF.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to our September episode of Voices for
Suicide Prevention, and here atOSPF there is an especially
special month September isNational Suicide Prevention
Month, and in just a secondwe'll introduce you to two
people who are helping savelives.
Hello everyone, I'm StephanieBucher.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And I'm Scott Light.
As we like to say, our podcastis real talk, real honest, real
life.
So, Stephanie, as you said, ourguests today, they're
lifesavers pure and simple.
So let's introduce you to them.
Prue Hudson has worked insocial work and healthcare going
back to the late 80s and notaging you, Prue, but again, you
are an expert.
(00:44):
She is a 988 specialist todaywith NetCare Services.
Doug Jackson is the 988 systemadministrator.
He's worked a long time as wellin healthcare, including his
stint as state superintendent ofthe Department of Developmental
Disabilities.
Welcome to you both.
Thank you.
It's great to be here with you,the state, Doug, let's start
off with you.
The state just put out stats onthe three-year record of our
(01:06):
988 suicide and crisis lifeline.
Going to start with a prettydramatic number here.
Over three years we're going toget really specific out of the
gate 592,294 contacts.
Can you help us kind ofunderstand the volume of that
number and what that encompasses?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, you have to let that number really sink in when
you're talking about hundredsof thousands of contacts.
If you were to divide that outinto a daily average right now
we're seeing about 700 to 800contacts a day by Ohioans to 988
through either calls, chats ortexts.
So that is that many people whoare experiencing some sort of
(01:46):
crisis in their life, and we letthe help seeker define what
that crisis is.
If it's a crisis to them, it isa crisis to us.
So there are all types of lifesituations that 988 is
responding to, but the sheernumber of people in crisis is
reflected by that overall numberthat you just reported.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
It's a big number and , as you say, when we're looking
at that here in Ohio, how do wecompare with other Midwestern
states or other states acrossthe country?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, so there has been some reporting that shows
that regionally, within all ofthe states, that there's some
states that are higher thanother states.
You have to look at thevariables of that.
Ohio has really embraced 988,and we've tried to make people
aware that it exists and that'snot just through Ohio Department
(02:34):
of Mental Health and AddictionServices, that's stakeholders
across the state, it's mentalhealth professionals, it's the
public saying that we realizethat there is a mental health
crisis in America, in Ohio, andso 988 as a resource is
important for people to knowthat it exists.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
There's another national number out there and,
pru, why don't you jump in onthis one, if you would, out of
the gate?
The average speed to answercalls is 34 seconds, however is
34 seconds.
However, ohio's average is 23.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Can you both talk about how seconds in a crisis
absolutely matter?
Yes, I think our goal at 988 isto answer on the first or
second ring.
We're waiting for the call,we're waiting to hold space, so
the last thing we want to beginthe conversation with is a long
pause, while the person seekinghelp has been waiting or feels
(03:30):
like they're in a queue orthere's been a lot of rings, so
we try and jump on it first orsecond ring.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, I like that.
Prue went to rings because as acaller that's what we
experience is how many ringsdoes it take for somebody to
pick up?
And what we see in a call is,for every ring that happens, the
person's despair grows.
So we know in Ohio that havingthe fastest speed to answer is a
very important metric for us tofollow.
(03:59):
We certainly want to be as fastas possible, but not just for
the sake of holding a record,but because somebody on the
other end of the line theirdespair could be growing with
the next ring.
So, as Prue pointed out, whenyou look at it by rings, the
average seconds that we have toanswer right now is about three
rings, three telephone rings.
(04:20):
A ring takes about six secondsbetween rings.
So we've actually kind of timedthis out how many rings does it
take, not just how many seconds, and that's what it equals for
us.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
We have a lot more numbers that we'll get to here
in a little bit, but I'd kind oflike to spend a little bit more
time on your respectivebackgrounds.
Prue, you've dedicated yourcareer to social work and access
to care, going back thosedecades we won't say how many
again what propelled you tomajor in psychology and then you
went on to get your master's inhealth care and counseling?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
It was a fit, I think anybody who has a leaning
towards helping others orreaching out to others.
I had some great internshipsand different from the judicial
system to different from thejudicial system, to substance
abuse, different opportunities.
Starting out, it was a fit andI just seemed to go towards
(05:17):
crisis and there wasn't a lot oftime spent on what was a crisis
.
It was truly as it is today.
Whatever you define that youneed help with.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And why did you want to become a 988 specialist?
What did that mean for you?
To go from that career that youhad into to what you're doing
currently?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
The big conversations .
There's nothing more importantthan being available to somebody
.
The loudest message you cansend, I think, to another person
is I'm here, I'm waiting,whatever your crisis is, we're
in this together.
So I think it's the mostvaluable thing I can reach out
and provide for somebody.
(05:53):
Is that voice, is that space onthe other side of the phone?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Let me follow up with that, with kind of a a way back
machine kind of question.
If you go back to thinkingabout breaking stigmas,
stereotypes around mental health, what was it like in the?
I can remember, by the way, Ican remember what it was like in
the eighties and nineties, butI'm not an expert like both of
(06:18):
you.
Give us a little comparison,walk us through that arc of time
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Huge difference.
So we didn't talk about, wedidn't label those specifically
big things in our lives thatwere difficult.
We danced around them either inour family or in company or in
school.
And lo and behold, when youjust talked to the elephant in
the room as crisis workers, youfound you're already halfway
(06:47):
into hearing the client likejust putting the label out there
, and it was immediate feedback,a little bit of relief right
away.
So you just started I thinkthat's how we understood being
very honest and open and dealingwith exactly what we needed to
deal with to get them throughthis.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Well, I think that releasing the stigma is a big
part of it, but it really is ata personal level, because when
people are asked how are youdoing, the common response is
still I'm doing, okay, I'm doingfine.
And it really takes that spaceas Prue said, the intentional
space to say how are you reallydoing, To go a little bit deeper
(07:27):
, because even when somebodycontacts 988, the first words
out of their mouth probablyaren't the biggest challenge
that they're faced with.
There's probably a lot morebehind it.
So as we work with 988 intraining, we often get asked the
question well, what training doyou provide to a 988 specialist
?
It's hard to train in some ofthe soft skills that really make
a 988 specialist the best thatthey can be, and those soft
(07:48):
skills are listening and beingempathetic.
Those are really the top twoskills.
Of course, having all theknowledge of crisis and the
response to it those are allvery, very important, but the
best skill is listening andhaving empathy.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So, doug your resume combining the business side of
healthcare and nonprofitmanagement, your under degree
work and then an MBA.
You worked at the local boardlevel, then at the State
Department of Development,developmental disabilities and
now 988.
Was that what you had had beenplanning all along, or how has
(08:26):
your career path been taking you?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, no, there were absolutely no plans for that.
Long story short, I, aftergraduating high school, hiked
the Appalachian Trail.
Oh, wow, and the whole thingeight months hiking 2,200 miles.
But what that gave was adifferent life perspective, and
so when I came back from theAppalachian Trail, I still had
(08:49):
no clue what I wanted to do fora career.
How do you mesh those twoworlds together?
And it was actually my dad thatsaid get a business degree.
You can apply at any place.
God has opened the door sincethen, and I've continued to walk
through the doors of socialservices and really helping
staff like crew have theresources that they need to do
the job Well.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I want to follow up.
I'm going to go off script herejust a little bit.
But we have to ask more aboutthat eight months.
But but also we now clinicallyknow that when people are out in
green space or blue spacearound, water brings a heart
rate down, brings blood pressuredown, it helps people to just
slow down.
That was physically andmentally challenging, but did
(09:35):
you find being out again in thatgreen space rewarding, I guess,
mentally Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah, it gives you a perspective on life that you can
truly slow down and take inwhat is around you, especially
in the natural environment, andso I'm a big proponent of
encouraging others to do thesame thing.
Whether it's a 988 specialistencouraging somebody in crisis
to get outside, have someactivity, absorb some sunshine,
(10:03):
get some fresh air, those thingsdo matter in mental health.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Somebody asked me once how could you do this for
so many years?
And I have horses at home.
The minute I put my foot in thestirrup and I'm on that big
animal, I don't know what I dofor living or what day it is,
and my family will always tellyou she's on barn time, it's
just getting out, it's gettingsynchronistic with another being
without your voice for me, andall that's done outside.
(10:30):
So I have to say kudos, becausethat Appalachian Trail is after
.
I've done a lot of marathonsAgain, looking for that answer
out there for my next step, orwhat can I give here?
So I think there's a hugeamount of good that comes for
every soul to get outside.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
They also say horses are very intuitive to a human's
mental state.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, the no words just touch and letting them
trust you.
I volunteer at a coupleagencies around town and I take
one of my horses and it's thattrust.
It's being outdoors, it'slowering all your breath, work,
(11:17):
getting down into your belly andletting the animal feel it.
It's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So Prue.
We want to delve a little bitmore into your moments of your
professional career.
What are some of the thingsthat really stand out for you in
your time with social work andthat kind of thing for
highlighting the need for care,elevated care for Ohioans?
(11:44):
What are some of those keymoments for you?
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Being an advocate for somebody who comes into your
environment, either somebodythat comes on the phone that's
seeking help, or I worked in themedical situation.
They came in to the trauma bayand I need to find out who's
important to them, what'simportant to them, and I have
moments before they're going togo to surgery or be intubated.
(12:10):
So having those bigconversations, making them as
poignant and specific aspossible, and touching I don't
do that on the phone, butlearning to touch just enough to
let that person sort ofunderstand that this I got you
here, we'll get through this.
It's the same on 988.
(12:31):
There is no touch, but you cando it with your voice and your
breath.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
What are your jobs?
Like Doug, day to day, describeyour job.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean there's an administrative side to a
state program and so that'salways there as part of what we
do.
But also you have to be aroundthe work that's happening.
988 centers that are throughoutOhio is really my favorite part
(13:03):
of the job because there'snever a time when I'm there that
I'm not reminded of theimportance of the work that's
happening.
To sit with staff in thatmoment of taking the next call,
to debrief with them afterwardsto ask a question like what can
I do as a 988 administrator forthe state to make your work
better, easier, you know, betterable to accomplish helping the
(13:28):
person on the other end andthose are great conversations to
have, being willing to bevulnerable with them about the
limitations that are in anyprogram, but also listening to
where there's opportunity toimprove it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Wow, prue, can you talk about your day?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I begin taking calls as soon as my shift begins.
I am never without backup.
I work remotely, but I have ateam leader or somebody always
available to me, which I find socomforting, and I was one of
those people that had all myresources lined up at my desk.
I'm going to be at home on myown and truly.
(14:07):
It's just holding space forthat person.
If I need someone, there areteam leads available every shift
, so I feel like there's alwayssomeone with me, but my job is
to center on that person, getthrough this day, have a safety
plan and move on to the nextcall.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Doug, you've been with 988 from the start.
Yes, kind of a two-parter here.
Biggest challenges and biggestrewards for you over these last
three years.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I think the biggest challenge.
It was probably the mostemotional day that I've had as
the 988 administrator.
I came home from work and ourdaughter, who was in junior high
at the time, had a classmatewhose brother took his life by
suicide and to ask myself thequestion did he know that 988
existed and if he did know,would he have used it and how
(15:02):
would that have impacted theoutcome of that situation?
So we're still in the earlyyears of 988.
I mean, three years is a longtime over.
You know over 600,000 contactsnow, but the question still
exists of does everybody knowthat it is a resource for them,
because we never plan a mentalhealth crisis Like I don't think
(15:23):
well, tomorrow I'll probablyhave a crisis right.
Better know what number tocontact.
It happens unexpectedly almostevery single time, just like a
heart attack would be unexpectedin a physical health emergency.
So do people know is thebiggest challenge that we've
really faced so far.
Of course, there's theoperational side of it too
(15:43):
making sure that the resourcesare in place, that staff are
trained, that they have whatthey need.
But you can work through those,probably on a management level
of operations.
But awareness affects everyOhioan in the state, and so,
until we are at 100% awareness,that mission is not accomplished
.
The most satisfying, though, istruly to be in a 988 center
(16:07):
when the call comes in and tohear it go from crisis, the
person's darkest day, to seeinga light at the end of the tunnel
where they can leave the call,they can hang up, they can end
the chat or text knowing thatthere's hope, and that's the
most rewarding side of it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I see, prue, your head is bobbing up and down, in
agreement with that.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, there's just some great moments, the ones
where the person that you called, that you were most worried
about, maybe you didn't evenhear their voice for a few
moments on the phone and yourheart rate's starting to go up.
You get sweaty.
What's going on?
And you get through that phonecall and at the end of it
they're thanking you Like.
There's so much relief and justso much connection right there
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Well, maybe going back to a few more numbers just
really quickly here, the averagenumber of 988 contacts per
month, about 16,000.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
That's over the three-year average Over three
years.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And every month since the launch we've continued to
increase in the monthly numbers.
So our average currently ifyou're just looking at this
calendar year of 2025, is over20,000 contacts per month.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Wow, you mentioned the awareness Doug a minute or
so ago.
How many people are aware of?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
988?
.
So we've been doing anawareness campaign.
That's been part of the work ishelping people to understand
that it exists.
When we started the awarenesscampaign, we did a pre-awareness
campaign survey and it saidthat about 36% of Ohioans knew
that it existed.
Of course, that's miserably low.
So when I was asked well, whatdo you want that number to be?
Of course the answer is 100percent, as I said just a few
(17:47):
moments ago.
But we had to lookrealistically at what you can
accomplish in a specific periodof time.
So our goal was to get to 50percent and we are currently
doing the post-campaign survey.
The initial part of thecampaign ended in June of 2025.
So we're looking at what we'veaccomplished and increasing from
36%.
But, again, until every Ohioanis aware, we won't reach our
(18:10):
goal.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Looking at some of the specific groups that are
reaching out the veteranpopulation, spanish speaking
callers that are routed tospecialized centers, on average,
again over the three years,about 11,000.
And when we're looking at thesenumbers, I mean Doug, what does
this mean for you?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I mean, there are specific populations, as you
referenced the veterans andthere's resources that we
provide through 988 to specificpopulations.
So we try to understand who'scontacting 988 and how we can
best support them.
But we don't always know either, because it's confidential and
we don't require people tosubmit information or tell us
(18:54):
information that they don't wantto tell us.
Veterans are a great example.
We have some veterans thatcontact 988 and they use the
press one option that would getthem specific veterans crisis
line services that are trainedspecifically in the resources
for veterans and to help them asa unique population.
But we also have veterans thatcall 988 and they don't press
(19:16):
one intentionally because theydon't want veteran specific
supports.
They just want to be a personthat needs to be heard and needs
to be helped through a crisis,so they don't want the label of
being a veteran at that moment.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I bet this is a number I'm sure that makes both
of you smile.
I mean, this is a low number1.5% the average percentage of
calls that are rolled over to abackup center.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Oh, that's great.
Yeah, so a backup center, whenwe refer to that as a national
backup center.
So 988 is a federal mandate.
Every state in the country hasit, every state, territory and
tribe.
But in Ohio we've pridedourselves in the availability of
an Ohio 988 specialist takingthat call, chat and because we
want a local response to beprovided.
(20:03):
Uh, if the help seeker needsadditional resources, we want
the the Ohio nine, eight, eightspecialists like Prue to be able
to access local services tosupport that person.
So we believe that the bestresponse is by a local response
and we've been able to maintaina very high rate of in-state
answer.
So that's a metric that wefollow.
(20:25):
We take it very seriously andit's our goal to answer them in
the state of Ohio.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I'm just ecstatic that we're keeping so many
within the state because itfeels like there's always better
service to the person in crisis.
If you are in that state andyou know those resources like
the back of your hand, you cantell them the bus number that
they could get in some cases.
So that just feels reallypersonal and connected to me.
(20:51):
I'm always happy that we canserve our population first.
There's out-of-state people,for sure, but much I didn't
realize it was that low.
We are given information.
We know that the numbers youget a feeling but we'll get a
broadcast about.
Our goal is always 11 secondsor under to get that phone, but
(21:14):
we'll get a broadcast about howmany might have gone over that
and it might have been thisreason or we had six
simultaneously or whatever.
But yeah, I think it's just anintuitive sense that we have
that it's busy.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
What motivates you, Prue, to keep doing this, being
able to answer those calls,whether it's someone who is in
crisis or it's someone who islooking for help for someone
that they know who might be incrisis.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Somebody's having their worst day ever and if
they've probably worked throughall their family and friends or
whatever and nobody comes tomind in their calling, what
could be more important thanbeing able to hold space with
them, like I get to sit and holda space with them and say, okay
, like, let's breathe together,let's figure this out.
(22:07):
There's no judgment, there's notime frame at all.
We're just going to suspendhere until we get through this
together, and I can't think ofanything more important to do
with my time.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
It's got to make you feel good to hear one of your
specialists get emotional and tobe that connected to the cause,
Doug.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah, it was bringing tears to my eyes, and that is
the joy of the job that you haveis interacting with those who
are taking the calls.
I've never taken a callpersonally, so to be alongside
those that are, that's where Ican feel the impact of the work.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Can we ask one more data question, and this is
fairly topical with where we arein the calendar.
This is our September episode.
Governor signed the statebudget into law a couple months
ago.
Where are we on funding for 988?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You have to ask it because 988is not free.
We have to pay Prue and theothers who are taking these
contacts.
There is an administrative costto it.
Governor DeWine has beenfantastic in supporting mental
health across the board.
988 has been a part of that andhis advocacy for that has been
very important to the successthat Ohio has seen in 988.
(23:24):
In the state of Ohio We'vecontinued to operate with
funding from the General RevenueFund GRF we call it and that
funding has continued to supportthe ongoing efforts.
Of course, we would love to seea dedicated funding source,
something that wasn't subject tochange.
We know that the GeneralAssembly is looking at what
options are available tocontinue that.
(23:46):
Some states have been able toaccomplish that.
It's a very sensitive topicwhen you're talking about paying
for additional public services.
We want to work within theresources that are available to
the state to fund programs likethis.
So it's always a push and pullbalance that we find to support
the highest priority services inthe state of Ohio.
But we're happy that 988 hascontinued to receive funding so
(24:09):
that we can do the work thatwe're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
What else do you need for 988?
Obviously more specialists,more advocacy, more education.
I mean, what else do we need tocontinue to make 988 available
and a ready service for anOhioan who might need it?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
I think just to know that, no matter what it is, it's
not too small to call.
Call, Reach out, Make that call.
If it's a friend of yours andyou're worried about them, make
that call.
I want everyone to know that weare the resource for that, no
matter how small you think it is, you don't know what it's
(24:50):
leading to and hopefully everysingle one and I feel like they
are are answered completelycompassionately, nonjudgmentally
and welcomed Like.
The first thing I say is thankyou so much for calling us.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I think having staff that are dedicated to it
as Prue has been a great exampleon today's podcast that staff
do this because they have apassion for it.
If you don't have a passion forit, you're probably not going
to last as a 988 staff person.
It If you don't have a passionfor it, you're probably not
going to last as a 988 staffperson, because the space that
you do hold for the help seekeris a space where you're taking
(25:21):
on a burden yourself.
You're taking on their burdenbecause you're listening, you're
interacting, you know thatsomebody else that you're
interacting with is feeling thatburden.
So it is a job that you have tobe cut out to do.
And, of course, we're alwayslooking for additional staff to
join into the call centersthroughout the state of Ohio and
become a part of that workforceto do that.
(25:42):
I think the other big piece isnot just awareness We've talked
a lot about awareness butunderstanding what to expect if
you were to reach out to 988.
So awareness is greater thanjust knowing that it exists, but
knowing what to expect so thatyou're comfortable reaching out
and then trusting that.
So we look at awareness onthree different levels, the
(26:03):
highest level being simply thatit exists, then what to expect,
and then trusting that thatresource will be able to
accommodate your needs.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I feel like this is a good opportunity for us to help
educate in that way.
I mean, if I call or text orI'm chatting, however, I reach
988,.
What can I expect?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
You're going to be welcomed warmly, openheartedly,
with whatever your concern is,and you talk when you're ready
to talk.
There is nobody pushing you,just I'm glad you're here.
Sometimes this can be reallydifficult to start this
conversation, but I'm here whenyou're ready to start it.
And I think just some peoplehave a think that they have to
(26:49):
call for themselves, but theymight have overheard one of
their school aged childrentalking to a friend and then it
just wears on them.
So call us.
Call us, we'll have that, talkwith you.
We'll give you resources, we'llask you how you feel about it.
Like you may be the thirdperson or once removed, but
you've got some strong feelingsabout it.
(27:11):
Let's work through them.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I've heard from people who have used 988 and
they say sometimes I just needsomeone who's not a family
member, who won't be judgmentaland who I can just talk like
straight out, just talk to themand have an honest conversation
with them about what I'm goingthrough.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I think it's invaluable In my mind's eye.
We used to call them, when Iwas growing up, no-see-um
conversations, Like we wouldwalk together somewhere but
don't look at me, Like when youhave to divulge something to a
parent or something.
It would be like no-see-ums,don't look at me.
Right now, I often think it'sso great to not have any idea
who you're talking to.
(27:51):
You don't have to worry aboutrunning into me anywhere.
It's just you are totallywelcome here.
What can we do for you?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Do I have to tell you who I am, where I am, anything
about myself?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
No, if you want to talk about yourself, if you want
me to use your name, or if youwant me to use some other name,
I'm here to meet your needs.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Wow.
We ask you to share some ofyour thoughts about the previous
decades and our kind of walk upto present day.
Let's end it this way A crystalball question for both of you
when would you like mentalhealth and access to care to be
five or 10 years down the road,and how do we get there?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
988 is the entry point to getting help and many,
many contacts about 80% of themare resolved just through the
interaction, chat, text or acall with a 988 specialist.
But we know that people's needsare greater than that.
So being able to haveadditional resources for the
needs that require somethingmore than the conversation, so
(28:54):
ongoing therapy, ongoingcounseling, an immediate
response from a mobile crisisunit Ohio is building those
services out as we speak and Ican see that in five to 10 years
from now that would be the norm, the same as calling 911 and
expecting police, fire,ambulance to show up within
minutes.
That in the future, mentalhealth resources would be on an
(29:18):
equal level of physical healthneeds and that those resources
would be much more available incommunities much more rapidly,
so that the crisis can beaddressed at the level that it
needs to be addressed.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I also think that there's something I would hope
everybody, including those kidson the school bus, would know
hey, did you ever call 988?
If you're feeling that way, Iwould hope that it would be
accessible and it would continueto have the respect it has for
resources and availability.
But the other part of it Ithink too off of what Doug was
(29:52):
saying is I'd like them to knowit's not like forever.
It could be a short-term thing.
It could be my conversationwith you or another 988 person.
Maybe you're going to make twoor three calls, maybe you're
going to go see a counselor.
It's not a forever thing.
Like it's.
Mental health doesn't have to bestuck in your craw the rest of
your life.
(30:12):
We can do this.
Let's all work together andmake better resources.
But I just want them to knowit's not a forever thing.
It doesn't.
It can be really fixable.
It's something you have toattend to, just like your
medical, physical health everyday, but you can have moments
and periods of time and decadeswhere you feel really good,
periods of time and decadeswhere you feel really good.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Prue Hudson and Doug Jackson, thank you so much for
joining us today.
We really are very honored tohave you with us today and
having this conversation about988.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Thanks to both of you for joining.
Well, we appreciate being ableto tell the story.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Yes, thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And to our listeners.
We always appreciate all of youout there as well, because when
you're listening to ourepisodes, when you're talking
about them, you break stigmas,you break barriers and you care
about mental health and savinglives.
This is Voices for SuicidePrevention, brought to you by
the Ohio Suicide PreventionFoundation.
Thank you.
Welcome to our September episode of Voices for
Suicide Prevention, and here atOSPF there is an especially
special month September isNational Suicide Prevention
Month, and in just a secondwe'll introduce you to two
people who are helping savelives.
Hello everyone, I'm StephanieBucher.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And I'm Scott Light.
As we like to say, our podcastis real talk, real honest, real
life.
So, Stephanie, as you said, ourguests today, they're
lifesavers pure and simple.
So let's introduce you to them.
Prue Hudson has worked insocial work and healthcare going
back to the late 80s and notaging you, Prue, but again, you
are an expert.
(00:44):
She is a 988 specialist todaywith NetCare Services.
Doug Jackson is the 988 systemadministrator.
He's worked a long time as wellin healthcare, including his
stint as state superintendent ofthe Department of Developmental
Disabilities.
Welcome to you both.
Thank you.
It's great to be here with you,the state, Doug, let's start
off with you.
The state just put out stats onthe three-year record of our
(01:06):
988 suicide and crisis lifeline.
Going to start with a prettydramatic number here.
Over three years we're going toget really specific out of the
gate 592,294 contacts.
Can you help us kind ofunderstand the volume of that
number and what that encompasses?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, you have to let that number really sink in when
you're talking about hundredsof thousands of contacts.
If you were to divide that outinto a daily average right now
we're seeing about 700 to 800contacts a day by Ohioans to 988
through either calls, chats ortexts.
So that is that many people whoare experiencing some sort of
(01:46):
crisis in their life, and we letthe help seeker define what
that crisis is.
If it's a crisis to them, it isa crisis to us.
So there are all types of lifesituations that 988 is
responding to, but the sheernumber of people in crisis is
reflected by that overall numberthat you just reported.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
It's a big number and , as you say, when we're looking
at that here in Ohio, how do wecompare with other Midwestern
states or other states acrossthe country?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, so there has been some reporting that shows
that regionally, within all ofthe states, that there's some
states that are higher thanother states.
You have to look at thevariables of that.
Ohio has really embraced 988,and we've tried to make people
aware that it exists and that'snot just through Ohio Department
(02:34):
of Mental Health and AddictionServices, that's stakeholders
across the state, it's mentalhealth professionals, it's the
public saying that we realizethat there is a mental health
crisis in America, in Ohio, andso 988 as a resource is
important for people to knowthat it exists.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
There's another national number out there and,
pru, why don't you jump in onthis one, if you would, out of
the gate?
The average speed to answercalls is 34 seconds, however is
34 seconds.
However, ohio's average is 23.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Can you both talk about how seconds in a crisis
absolutely matter?
Yes, I think our goal at 988 isto answer on the first or
second ring.
We're waiting for the call,we're waiting to hold space, so
the last thing we want to beginthe conversation with is a long
pause, while the person seekinghelp has been waiting or feels
(03:30):
like they're in a queue orthere's been a lot of rings, so
we try and jump on it first orsecond ring.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, I like that.
Prue went to rings because as acaller that's what we
experience is how many ringsdoes it take for somebody to
pick up?
And what we see in a call is,for every ring that happens, the
person's despair grows.
So we know in Ohio that havingthe fastest speed to answer is a
very important metric for us tofollow.
(03:59):
We certainly want to be as fastas possible, but not just for
the sake of holding a record,but because somebody on the
other end of the line theirdespair could be growing with
the next ring.
So, as Prue pointed out, whenyou look at it by rings, the
average seconds that we have toanswer right now is about three
rings, three telephone rings.
(04:20):
A ring takes about six secondsbetween rings.
So we've actually kind of timedthis out how many rings does it
take, not just how many seconds, and that's what it equals for
us.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
We have a lot more numbers that we'll get to here
in a little bit, but I'd kind oflike to spend a little bit more
time on your respectivebackgrounds.
Prue, you've dedicated yourcareer to social work and access
to care, going back thosedecades we won't say how many
again what propelled you tomajor in psychology and then you
went on to get your master's inhealth care and counseling?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
It was a fit, I think anybody who has a leaning
towards helping others orreaching out to others.
I had some great internshipsand different from the judicial
system to different from thejudicial system, to substance
abuse, different opportunities.
Starting out, it was a fit andI just seemed to go towards
(05:17):
crisis and there wasn't a lot oftime spent on what was a crisis
.
It was truly as it is today.
Whatever you define that youneed help with.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And why did you want to become a 988 specialist?
What did that mean for you?
To go from that career that youhad into to what you're doing
currently?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
The big conversations .
There's nothing more importantthan being available to somebody
.
The loudest message you cansend, I think, to another person
is I'm here, I'm waiting,whatever your crisis is, we're
in this together.
So I think it's the mostvaluable thing I can reach out
and provide for somebody.
(05:53):
Is that voice, is that space onthe other side of the phone?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Let me follow up with that, with kind of a a way back
machine kind of question.
If you go back to thinkingabout breaking stigmas,
stereotypes around mental health, what was it like in the?
I can remember, by the way, Ican remember what it was like in
the eighties and nineties, butI'm not an expert like both of
(06:18):
you.
Give us a little comparison,walk us through that arc of time
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Huge difference.
So we didn't talk about, wedidn't label those specifically
big things in our lives thatwere difficult.
We danced around them either inour family or in company or in
school.
And lo and behold, when youjust talked to the elephant in
the room as crisis workers, youfound you're already halfway
(06:47):
into hearing the client likejust putting the label out there
, and it was immediate feedback,a little bit of relief right
away.
So you just started I thinkthat's how we understood being
very honest and open and dealingwith exactly what we needed to
deal with to get them throughthis.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Well, I think that releasing the stigma is a big
part of it, but it really is ata personal level, because when
people are asked how are youdoing, the common response is
still I'm doing, okay, I'm doingfine.
And it really takes that spaceas Prue said, the intentional
space to say how are you reallydoing, To go a little bit deeper
(07:27):
, because even when somebodycontacts 988, the first words
out of their mouth probablyaren't the biggest challenge
that they're faced with.
There's probably a lot morebehind it.
So as we work with 988 intraining, we often get asked the
question well, what training doyou provide to a 988 specialist
?
It's hard to train in some ofthe soft skills that really make
a 988 specialist the best thatthey can be, and those soft
(07:48):
skills are listening and beingempathetic.
Those are really the top twoskills.
Of course, having all theknowledge of crisis and the
response to it those are allvery, very important, but the
best skill is listening andhaving empathy.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So, doug your resume combining the business side of
healthcare and nonprofitmanagement, your under degree
work and then an MBA.
You worked at the local boardlevel, then at the State
Department of Development,developmental disabilities and
now 988.
Was that what you had had beenplanning all along, or how has
(08:26):
your career path been taking you?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, no, there were absolutely no plans for that.
Long story short, I, aftergraduating high school, hiked
the Appalachian Trail.
Oh, wow, and the whole thingeight months hiking 2,200 miles.
But what that gave was adifferent life perspective, and
so when I came back from theAppalachian Trail, I still had
(08:49):
no clue what I wanted to do fora career.
How do you mesh those twoworlds together?
And it was actually my dad thatsaid get a business degree.
You can apply at any place.
God has opened the door sincethen, and I've continued to walk
through the doors of socialservices and really helping
staff like crew have theresources that they need to do
the job Well.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I want to follow up.
I'm going to go off script herejust a little bit.
But we have to ask more aboutthat eight months.
But but also we now clinicallyknow that when people are out in
green space or blue spacearound, water brings a heart
rate down, brings blood pressuredown, it helps people to just
slow down.
That was physically andmentally challenging, but did
(09:35):
you find being out again in thatgreen space rewarding, I guess,
mentally Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah, it gives you a perspective on life that you can
truly slow down and take inwhat is around you, especially
in the natural environment, andso I'm a big proponent of
encouraging others to do thesame thing.
Whether it's a 988 specialistencouraging somebody in crisis
to get outside, have someactivity, absorb some sunshine,
(10:03):
get some fresh air, those thingsdo matter in mental health.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Somebody asked me once how could you do this for
so many years?
And I have horses at home.
The minute I put my foot in thestirrup and I'm on that big
animal, I don't know what I dofor living or what day it is,
and my family will always tellyou she's on barn time, it's
just getting out, it's gettingsynchronistic with another being
without your voice for me, andall that's done outside.
(10:30):
So I have to say kudos, becausethat Appalachian Trail is after
.
I've done a lot of marathonsAgain, looking for that answer
out there for my next step, orwhat can I give here?
So I think there's a hugeamount of good that comes for
every soul to get outside.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
They also say horses are very intuitive to a human's
mental state.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, the no words just touch and letting them
trust you.
I volunteer at a coupleagencies around town and I take
one of my horses and it's thattrust.
It's being outdoors, it'slowering all your breath, work,
(11:17):
getting down into your belly andletting the animal feel it.
It's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So Prue.
We want to delve a little bitmore into your moments of your
professional career.
What are some of the thingsthat really stand out for you in
your time with social work andthat kind of thing for
highlighting the need for care,elevated care for Ohioans?
(11:44):
What are some of those keymoments for you?
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Being an advocate for somebody who comes into your
environment, either somebodythat comes on the phone that's
seeking help, or I worked in themedical situation.
They came in to the trauma bayand I need to find out who's
important to them, what'simportant to them, and I have
moments before they're going togo to surgery or be intubated.
(12:10):
So having those bigconversations, making them as
poignant and specific aspossible, and touching I don't
do that on the phone, butlearning to touch just enough to
let that person sort ofunderstand that this I got you
here, we'll get through this.
It's the same on 988.
(12:31):
There is no touch, but you cando it with your voice and your
breath.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
What are your jobs?
Like Doug, day to day, describeyour job.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean there's an administrative side to a
state program and so that'salways there as part of what we
do.
But also you have to be aroundthe work that's happening.
988 centers that are throughoutOhio is really my favorite part
(13:03):
of the job because there'snever a time when I'm there that
I'm not reminded of theimportance of the work that's
happening.
To sit with staff in thatmoment of taking the next call,
to debrief with them afterwardsto ask a question like what can
I do as a 988 administrator forthe state to make your work
better, easier, you know, betterable to accomplish helping the
(13:28):
person on the other end andthose are great conversations to
have, being willing to bevulnerable with them about the
limitations that are in anyprogram, but also listening to
where there's opportunity toimprove it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Wow, prue, can you talk about your day?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I begin taking calls as soon as my shift begins.
I am never without backup.
I work remotely, but I have ateam leader or somebody always
available to me, which I find socomforting, and I was one of
those people that had all myresources lined up at my desk.
I'm going to be at home on myown and truly.
(14:07):
It's just holding space forthat person.
If I need someone, there areteam leads available every shift
, so I feel like there's alwayssomeone with me, but my job is
to center on that person, getthrough this day, have a safety
plan and move on to the nextcall.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Doug, you've been with 988 from the start.
Yes, kind of a two-parter here.
Biggest challenges and biggestrewards for you over these last
three years.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I think the biggest challenge.
It was probably the mostemotional day that I've had as
the 988 administrator.
I came home from work and ourdaughter, who was in junior high
at the time, had a classmatewhose brother took his life by
suicide and to ask myself thequestion did he know that 988
existed and if he did know,would he have used it and how
(15:02):
would that have impacted theoutcome of that situation?
So we're still in the earlyyears of 988.
I mean, three years is a longtime over.
You know over 600,000 contactsnow, but the question still
exists of does everybody knowthat it is a resource for them,
because we never plan a mentalhealth crisis Like I don't think
(15:23):
well, tomorrow I'll probablyhave a crisis right.
Better know what number tocontact.
It happens unexpectedly almostevery single time, just like a
heart attack would be unexpectedin a physical health emergency.
So do people know is thebiggest challenge that we've
really faced so far.
Of course, there's theoperational side of it too
(15:43):
making sure that the resourcesare in place, that staff are
trained, that they have whatthey need.
But you can work through those,probably on a management level
of operations.
But awareness affects everyOhioan in the state, and so,
until we are at 100% awareness,that mission is not accomplished
.
The most satisfying, though, istruly to be in a 988 center
(16:07):
when the call comes in and tohear it go from crisis, the
person's darkest day, to seeinga light at the end of the tunnel
where they can leave the call,they can hang up, they can end
the chat or text knowing thatthere's hope, and that's the
most rewarding side of it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I see, prue, your head is bobbing up and down, in
agreement with that.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, there's just some great moments, the ones
where the person that you called, that you were most worried
about, maybe you didn't evenhear their voice for a few
moments on the phone and yourheart rate's starting to go up.
You get sweaty.
What's going on?
And you get through that phonecall and at the end of it
they're thanking you Like.
There's so much relief and justso much connection right there
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Well, maybe going back to a few more numbers just
really quickly here, the averagenumber of 988 contacts per
month, about 16,000.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
That's over the three-year average Over three
years.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And every month since the launch we've continued to
increase in the monthly numbers.
So our average currently ifyou're just looking at this
calendar year of 2025, is over20,000 contacts per month.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Wow, you mentioned the awareness Doug a minute or
so ago.
How many people are aware of?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
988?
.
So we've been doing anawareness campaign.
That's been part of the work ishelping people to understand
that it exists.
When we started the awarenesscampaign, we did a pre-awareness
campaign survey and it saidthat about 36% of Ohioans knew
that it existed.
Of course, that's miserably low.
So when I was asked well, whatdo you want that number to be?
Of course the answer is 100percent, as I said just a few
(17:47):
moments ago.
But we had to lookrealistically at what you can
accomplish in a specific periodof time.
So our goal was to get to 50percent and we are currently
doing the post-campaign survey.
The initial part of thecampaign ended in June of 2025.
So we're looking at what we'veaccomplished and increasing from
36%.
But, again, until every Ohioanis aware, we won't reach our
(18:10):
goal.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Looking at some of the specific groups that are
reaching out the veteranpopulation, spanish speaking
callers that are routed tospecialized centers, on average,
again over the three years,about 11,000.
And when we're looking at thesenumbers, I mean Doug, what does
this mean for you?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I mean, there are specific populations, as you
referenced the veterans andthere's resources that we
provide through 988 to specificpopulations.
So we try to understand who'scontacting 988 and how we can
best support them.
But we don't always know either, because it's confidential and
we don't require people tosubmit information or tell us
(18:54):
information that they don't wantto tell us.
Veterans are a great example.
We have some veterans thatcontact 988 and they use the
press one option that would getthem specific veterans crisis
line services that are trainedspecifically in the resources
for veterans and to help them asa unique population.
But we also have veterans thatcall 988 and they don't press
(19:16):
one intentionally because theydon't want veteran specific
supports.
They just want to be a personthat needs to be heard and needs
to be helped through a crisis,so they don't want the label of
being a veteran at that moment.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I bet this is a number I'm sure that makes both
of you smile.
I mean, this is a low number1.5% the average percentage of
calls that are rolled over to abackup center.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Oh, that's great.
Yeah, so a backup center, whenwe refer to that as a national
backup center.
So 988 is a federal mandate.
Every state in the country hasit, every state, territory and
tribe.
But in Ohio we've pridedourselves in the availability of
an Ohio 988 specialist takingthat call, chat and because we
want a local response to beprovided.
(20:03):
Uh, if the help seeker needsadditional resources, we want
the the Ohio nine, eight, eightspecialists like Prue to be able
to access local services tosupport that person.
So we believe that the bestresponse is by a local response
and we've been able to maintaina very high rate of in-state
answer.
So that's a metric that wefollow.
(20:25):
We take it very seriously andit's our goal to answer them in
the state of Ohio.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I'm just ecstatic that we're keeping so many
within the state because itfeels like there's always better
service to the person in crisis.
If you are in that state andyou know those resources like
the back of your hand, you cantell them the bus number that
they could get in some cases.
So that just feels reallypersonal and connected to me.
(20:51):
I'm always happy that we canserve our population first.
There's out-of-state people,for sure, but much I didn't
realize it was that low.
We are given information.
We know that the numbers youget a feeling but we'll get a
broadcast about.
Our goal is always 11 secondsor under to get that phone, but
(21:14):
we'll get a broadcast about howmany might have gone over that
and it might have been thisreason or we had six
simultaneously or whatever.
But yeah, I think it's just anintuitive sense that we have
that it's busy.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
What motivates you, Prue, to keep doing this, being
able to answer those calls,whether it's someone who is in
crisis or it's someone who islooking for help for someone
that they know who might be incrisis.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Somebody's having their worst day ever and if
they've probably worked throughall their family and friends or
whatever and nobody comes tomind in their calling, what
could be more important thanbeing able to hold space with
them, like I get to sit and holda space with them and say, okay
, like, let's breathe together,let's figure this out.
(22:07):
There's no judgment, there's notime frame at all.
We're just going to suspendhere until we get through this
together, and I can't think ofanything more important to do
with my time.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
It's got to make you feel good to hear one of your
specialists get emotional and tobe that connected to the cause,
Doug.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah, it was bringing tears to my eyes, and that is
the joy of the job that you haveis interacting with those who
are taking the calls.
I've never taken a callpersonally, so to be alongside
those that are, that's where Ican feel the impact of the work.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Can we ask one more data question, and this is
fairly topical with where we arein the calendar.
This is our September episode.
Governor signed the statebudget into law a couple months
ago.
Where are we on funding for 988?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You have to ask it because 988is not free.
We have to pay Prue and theothers who are taking these
contacts.
There is an administrative costto it.
Governor DeWine has beenfantastic in supporting mental
health across the board.
988 has been a part of that andhis advocacy for that has been
very important to the successthat Ohio has seen in 988.
(23:24):
In the state of Ohio We'vecontinued to operate with
funding from the General RevenueFund GRF we call it and that
funding has continued to supportthe ongoing efforts.
Of course, we would love to seea dedicated funding source,
something that wasn't subject tochange.
We know that the GeneralAssembly is looking at what
options are available tocontinue that.
(23:46):
Some states have been able toaccomplish that.
It's a very sensitive topicwhen you're talking about paying
for additional public services.
We want to work within theresources that are available to
the state to fund programs likethis.
So it's always a push and pullbalance that we find to support
the highest priority services inthe state of Ohio.
But we're happy that 988 hascontinued to receive funding so
(24:09):
that we can do the work thatwe're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
What else do you need for 988?
Obviously more specialists,more advocacy, more education.
I mean, what else do we need tocontinue to make 988 available
and a ready service for anOhioan who might need it?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
I think just to know that, no matter what it is, it's
not too small to call.
Call, Reach out, Make that call.
If it's a friend of yours andyou're worried about them, make
that call.
I want everyone to know that weare the resource for that, no
matter how small you think it is, you don't know what it's
(24:50):
leading to and hopefully everysingle one and I feel like they
are are answered completelycompassionately, nonjudgmentally
and welcomed Like.
The first thing I say is thankyou so much for calling us.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I think having staff that are dedicated to it
as Prue has been a great exampleon today's podcast that staff
do this because they have apassion for it.
If you don't have a passion forit, you're probably not going
to last as a 988 staff person.
It If you don't have a passionfor it, you're probably not
going to last as a 988 staffperson, because the space that
you do hold for the help seekeris a space where you're taking
(25:21):
on a burden yourself.
You're taking on their burdenbecause you're listening, you're
interacting, you know thatsomebody else that you're
interacting with is feeling thatburden.
So it is a job that you have tobe cut out to do.
And, of course, we're alwayslooking for additional staff to
join into the call centersthroughout the state of Ohio and
become a part of that workforceto do that.
(25:42):
I think the other big piece isnot just awareness We've talked
a lot about awareness butunderstanding what to expect if
you were to reach out to 988.
So awareness is greater thanjust knowing that it exists, but
knowing what to expect so thatyou're comfortable reaching out
and then trusting that.
So we look at awareness onthree different levels, the
(26:03):
highest level being simply thatit exists, then what to expect,
and then trusting that thatresource will be able to
accommodate your needs.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I feel like this is a good opportunity for us to help
educate in that way.
I mean, if I call or text orI'm chatting, however, I reach
988,.
What can I expect?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
You're going to be welcomed warmly, openheartedly,
with whatever your concern is,and you talk when you're ready
to talk.
There is nobody pushing you,just I'm glad you're here.
Sometimes this can be reallydifficult to start this
conversation, but I'm here whenyou're ready to start it.
And I think just some peoplehave a think that they have to
(26:49):
call for themselves, but theymight have overheard one of
their school aged childrentalking to a friend and then it
just wears on them.
So call us.
Call us, we'll have that, talkwith you.
We'll give you resources, we'llask you how you feel about it.
Like you may be the thirdperson or once removed, but
you've got some strong feelingsabout it.
(27:11):
Let's work through them.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I've heard from people who have used 988 and
they say sometimes I just needsomeone who's not a family
member, who won't be judgmentaland who I can just talk like
straight out, just talk to themand have an honest conversation
with them about what I'm goingthrough.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I think it's invaluable In my mind's eye.
We used to call them, when Iwas growing up, no-see-um
conversations, Like we wouldwalk together somewhere but
don't look at me, Like when youhave to divulge something to a
parent or something.
It would be like no-see-ums,don't look at me.
Right now, I often think it'sso great to not have any idea
who you're talking to.
(27:51):
You don't have to worry aboutrunning into me anywhere.
It's just you are totallywelcome here.
What can we do for you?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Do I have to tell you who I am, where I am, anything
about myself?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
No, if you want to talk about yourself, if you want
me to use your name, or if youwant me to use some other name,
I'm here to meet your needs.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Wow.
We ask you to share some ofyour thoughts about the previous
decades and our kind of walk upto present day.
Let's end it this way A crystalball question for both of you
when would you like mentalhealth and access to care to be
five or 10 years down the road,and how do we get there?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
988 is the entry point to getting help and many,
many contacts about 80% of themare resolved just through the
interaction, chat, text or acall with a 988 specialist.
But we know that people's needsare greater than that.
So being able to haveadditional resources for the
needs that require somethingmore than the conversation, so
(28:54):
ongoing therapy, ongoingcounseling, an immediate
response from a mobile crisisunit Ohio is building those
services out as we speak and Ican see that in five to 10 years
from now that would be the norm, the same as calling 911 and
expecting police, fire,ambulance to show up within
minutes.
That in the future, mentalhealth resources would be on an
(29:18):
equal level of physical healthneeds and that those resources
would be much more available incommunities much more rapidly,
so that the crisis can beaddressed at the level that it
needs to be addressed.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I also think that there's something I would hope
everybody, including those kidson the school bus, would know
hey, did you ever call 988?
If you're feeling that way, Iwould hope that it would be
accessible and it would continueto have the respect it has for
resources and availability.
But the other part of it Ithink too off of what Doug was
(29:52):
saying is I'd like them to knowit's not like forever.
It could be a short-term thing.
It could be my conversationwith you or another 988 person.
Maybe you're going to make twoor three calls, maybe you're
going to go see a counselor.
It's not a forever thing.
Like it's.
Mental health doesn't have to bestuck in your craw the rest of
your life.
(30:12):
We can do this.
Let's all work together andmake better resources.
But I just want them to knowit's not a forever thing.
It doesn't.
It can be really fixable.
It's something you have toattend to, just like your
medical, physical health everyday, but you can have moments
and periods of time and decadeswhere you feel really good,
periods of time and decadeswhere you feel really good.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Prue Hudson and Doug Jackson, thank you so much for
joining us today.
We really are very honored tohave you with us today and
having this conversation about988.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Thanks to both of you for joining.
Well, we appreciate being ableto tell the story.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Yes, thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And to our listeners.
We always appreciate all of youout there as well, because when
you're listening to ourepisodes, when you're talking
about them, you break stigmas,you break barriers and you care
about mental health and savinglives.
This is Voices for SuicidePrevention, brought to you by
the Ohio Suicide PreventionFoundation.
Thank you.
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