May 10, 2021 • 31 mins
Voices of Diversity host Rocki Howard speaks to guest Sandhna Chintoe who is a Managing Director International at Cammio.
Sandhna and I have a woman to woman chat about being young mothers, the constant compromises young women building a career face, and the resulting emotional tax.
Check out Sandhna's episode as she chats to us as a Voice of the Young, Gifted, and Hindu.
Resources
Connect with Us
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rocki Howard (00:09):
Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm
your host, Rocki. Howard, andthe purpose of this podcast to
humanize diversity, one story,one conversation at a time. I
want our listeners to understandthe significance and the impact
that racism, bias and an equityhave on real people. I want our
(00:34):
guests to have the opportunityto share the challenges that we
the underrepresented face in thecorporate world, that media is
AI, and the overall world thatwe live in, through sharing,
listening, understanding, andcommitting to take small actions
towards change. Together, we canimpact the diversity narrative,
(00:57):
one story, one conversation at atime. And by changing the
narrative, we can change theworld.
Sandhna Chintoe (01:07):
I think sometimes at the end of the day,
where you had a lot of meetings,you're literally exhausted,
because you're, you are yesyourself but also playing this
role. But I also think that whenyou invest, and they think that
she knows her stuff, you'veearned that respect as well. So
I think it's it's a big price topay and you have to maybe work
(01:29):
twice as hard. But when you getthere, it also based off
Rocki Howard (01:34):
voices of diversity guests. sonnen,
Toronto is managing directorinternational at cameo, sadhana
and I have a woman to woman chatabout being young mothers, the
constant compromises young womenbuilding a career face, and the
resulting emotional tax checkoutsadness episode as she chats to
(01:54):
us, as the voice of the young,gifted, and Hindu.
Good morning, good afternoon.
Good evening from wherever youare in the world. And welcome to
the voices of diversity podcast.
(02:17):
I'm your host Rocki Howard, andI identify us she her black,
Christian, Jen, ex wife, Mom,because I embrace all dimensions
of my diversity. And speaking ofdiversity, you're certainly in
for a treat today with ourguests. I can't wait for her to
tell her story. Sam now will youintroduce yourself to our
(02:37):
audience? And given the multipledimensions of diversity? Let us
know how you identify.
Sandhna Chintoe (02:43):
Hi, Rocky, so and listeners? Yeah, so my name
is Selena gento. I am themanaging director international
for cameo video recruitmentexperts. And I identify as she
her Hindu and also a mother.
Rocki Howard (03:01):
I love that. All right. So tell us how old boy
girl How old?
Sandhna Chintoe (03:06):
My daughter is 20. And I'm 37. So I was a demon
as well. Um, so yeah, we're nowwhen she was born, life was
difficult. Let's be honest, it'snot easy to be 17 to become a
mom, find out who you are as aperson, let alone who you are as
(03:29):
a mother. So that was astruggle. But now 20 years
later, loving it.
Rocki Howard (03:36):
It's incredible.
And I can identify with that Iwasn't quite 17. I was 21 when I
gave birth to my oldest andit's, I'm sure you will agree
with this. Do you remember thatmoment when your daughter turned
17. And you looked at her andyou went? Oh my gosh. That's how
old I was when I gave birth toher. And how young and dumb was
(03:58):
I? Like that's what I did whenwhen I looked at my daughter and
she turned 21 I went, this iscrazy. Did you have that same
moment?
Sandhna Chintoe (04:08):
Exactly. It's exactly the same feeling. I
looked at her. And I went backto my 17 year old and I felt
also bit sorry for this girl whosuddenly became a mom didn't
know and I was so happy for mydaughter that she didn't have to
go through that whirlwind ofemotion and just having an
(04:31):
ability to enjoy her teens as afree carefree, carefree
teenager.
Rocki Howard (04:38):
Yeah, I felt the same for my daughters. Like I
always wanted them to be able toenjoy becoming an adult where I
was just slammed headfirst intoit. And, and you do give up
something, right? So and maybewe'll come back to that. Let's
come back to like that pieces ofourselves that we give up along
(04:59):
the way. Way, I'd love to givesome context to the audience.
Tell them a little bit, I took apeek at your background. And I
know it looks like from what Icould tell you started a bit in
government services. And nowyou're the global Managing
Director for a tech company.
Right? So, and you've done it ata young age, like you just said,
(05:20):
you told us you're 37, and youare the managing director for a
tech company. So I would love toknow a little bit about your
career, how does one go frombeing a teenage mom, to working
for the government to beingunder 40, and a managing
director for a tech company?
Sandhna Chintoe (05:40):
Yeah, it all starts with having a power mom
myself. So my mom is always afirmer lever, because she didn't
have the opportunities growingup. As I did. She grew up
hearing them, which is anunderdeveloped country, she was
allowed to go to school, untilhigh school, and that's it. And
(06:01):
then she had to do help in thehousehold get married, and have
this very traditional life. Soshe got three daughters. So she
had different ideas anddifferent, different what's the
word? ambitions, she haddifferent ambitions for her
(06:21):
daughters, she wanted them tostudy to be successful and lead
the life that she couldn't have.
So when my daughter was born, Iwas still studying. So I was in
college. And she said to me,okay, you're a mom now, but I
will help you as much as I canto achieve whatever you want to
achieve. So that's where itstarted. So I was allowed to do
(06:44):
my whole degree, to then startworking at the government when I
when I graduated. And working ingovernment is very nice job.
It's a stable job. It's aflexible job. And especially
when you're a young mom, you cancombine it very easily. And the
(07:04):
hours drop off your childrencome back early, because your
schedule is so flexible, becausea government job is just that
flexible. But for me and myambition, it just wasn't enough.
I was expected to do X, when youcould do X, Y, Zed.
Rocki Howard (07:26):
That's, that's a tasty little nugget. Like, we
sometimes get comfortable doingx when we're capable of doing x,
y, and Zed. I love that callout.
Sandhna Chintoe (07:37):
Exactly. So then just doing x made me very
unhappy. I just couldn'tanymore. So I did something very
bold, I just quit my job. Isaid, I'm sorry. At first I
discussed with my mom, ofcourse, because I needed some
Rocki Howard (07:57):
help, right?
Actually, I
Sandhna Chintoe (07:59):
needed some help at mom. so unhappy, I'm
just going to quit and she said,You do what you need to do, I
will be here, I will be here. Sothen I quit my job. And through
a friend, I got a job at a jobboard, where I was the sales
support type of person who wasjust posting job ads, helping
(08:20):
the sales team achieve theirtargets, just a very supportive
role. And within that role, Ialso noticed that I'm very good
with clients. And I'm good onthe on the operational side. So
then quickly, I grew in becominga key account manager where our
help to key accounts withrecruitment, how to post a job
advert, how to search forcandidates, and more and more I
(08:45):
was being becoming responsiblefor for retention. So a half,
half commercial, commercial job.
But also what I found out was mytech affinity. He was really
good with speaking todevelopers, really good
translating those developerneeds with sales, because sales
and development, they don'tcombine. They don't
Rocki Howard (09:09):
speak the same language do.
Sandhna Chintoe (09:11):
They don't speak the same language at all.
So I was really good in likebeing this translator in between
sales and tech, but then alsothe client at one point. So I
really found that my skills incommunications and understanding
different people and thentranslating different messages
(09:32):
to those different people wassomehow like my skill, I was
very adaptable for thosedifferent people. So then I
decided it may be time now tomove on to a tech company.
Because this is where the futurelies. Tech is where we are going
to be and I want to be more intech. So I applied for this role
(09:55):
for this great tech company whowere building custom software.
And I had to disart designsoftware together with my client
go back to development, and theywould build it. So it was a very
technical role, which was great.
But the job itself was great,but I didn't get the flexibility
(10:17):
that I needed to live my life.
So my work life balance was off.
So that was very difficultbecause you have this job that
you love, but then you couldn'tcombine it with your private
life, because I'm still a mom.
And that was still veryimportant. So then I decided to
take on the job at cameo startedas the client success, a client
(10:41):
success manager, where Iimplemented the video
recruitment services within therecruitment processes. So to
really change and shaperecruitment processes, then grew
on to be the head of clientsuccess. So I built the entire
client success strategy. Andthat also held up the client
success team, which was followedby my next promotion as the
(11:01):
manager directing.
Rocki Howard (11:03):
Yep, that is such an incredible story. I'm so
proud of you, to you. And Ithink it leads to a couple of
questions in my mind. But Ithink the most important of
those is, you didn't grow upwanting to be in tech, right?
Somewhere along the line, youfound that you had an affinity
(11:23):
for it. You and I both know thatthere is a gap of women, and
certainly women of color intech, right, both of us as women
in tech. Tell me, how do youthink we can encourage more
women to come into the techspace? Yeah,
Sandhna Chintoe (11:42):
I think that most women are maybe a bit held
back or scared, because whenthey look at the tech space,
it's white male dominated. Let'sjust call it as it is. Last
week, I was a speaker at anevent, it was white males. And
me.
Unknown (12:05):
I'm shocked. No, certainly you're wrong. I'm
Sandhna Chintoe (12:08):
shot. You're very funny poster as well with
all the faces. And me. And so Ithink, girls, you already know
growing up kind of if you'regood in tech or not. I already
knew but I never realized thatyou were different, or that you
were better in understandingtech than maybe other people.
(12:31):
But kind of you knew when yousee a new program, or when you
are learning to deal with a newsoftware program. Sometimes you
learn it very quickly, and otherpeople don't. So I think you
already know that you have thisaffinity with tech. And
sometimes it's really good toexplore that affinity because I
(12:54):
also think that, you know,growing up as a girl, you're
never encouraged to do tech,you're encouraged in in the
direction of more the socialkind of jobs,
Unknown (13:07):
or,
Sandhna Chintoe (13:09):
or a rule where you think you can combine it
better with a family life alsopossible. And when you look at
the tech world, you see, it'sfast. You see it's hard work.
And you also see a lot of whitemale. But I do think that if
you're there, when you'reactually there, it's different
than what you think it is.
Rocki Howard (13:30):
Fair enough. If I'm not mistaking you are based
in the Netherlands, right?
Unknown (13:35):
I am.
Rocki Howard (13:36):
Okay, so I have to tell you, when I think of
Netherlands, I think of whitemale, like I can't see anything
else in the Netherlands. Right?
Can you give our audience asense of what the diversity
landscape looks like in theNetherlands?
Sandhna Chintoe (13:53):
Yeah, so the majority is white here. And then
we have a lot of North Africanpeople. So also people from
India, a lot of Indonesianpeople because the Netherlands
were very active in thecolonization of the world. So
they they had their little pigin a lot of countries. So there
(14:18):
are a lot of Chinese a lot ofIndonesian, and then also a lot
of people from Suriname, becausethey were also a colony until
1975, which is a small countryin South America, next to above
Brazil. And since 1975, went tonow became independence, my
(14:39):
whole family decided to move tothe Netherlands.
Rocki Howard (14:43):
Very cool. Very cool. Let's, let's go back and
pick up on this, you know, kindof some of the challenges you've
had in your career, right? Andwhen I think about you've
accomplished these milestones ata young age, you're a woman
you're a woman of color, Color,you are a young mom, tell me how
(15:04):
those factors have made yourcareer journey a bit more
challenging.
Sandhna Chintoe (15:11):
I think from a young age, I already realized
that I was different. And thatif I wanted to achieve things I
had to adapt. So when you applyfor a role, I know with my name,
that my CV would probably end upon this reject pile. So I know
(15:34):
that before I apply for a role,I need to call the company
first, then they will hear myvoice, then they think, ah, she
speaks fluent Dutch. This is avery nice person. So I humanize
my, my profile, let's call itthat. So from a very young age,
(15:55):
I already realized that in thisgame, I need to humanize myself.
So that's step one. And thenstep two, I think, in all these
white dominated companies, youhave to slowly teach them what
it is to have someone from adifferent background in that
(16:18):
company thinks they can, thinksthey can't do things they can
say things take or not say, alsoin the recruitment process, when
people let's be honest, peoplewith a funny name, or being
rejected by the fact that theyhave a funny name, pick a fight,
(16:40):
because you know that it's notacceptable for a recruitment
process to go like that. Becausethese are people like you and I,
people that were born in theNetherlands, based in the
Netherlands, just have adifferent background. They
didn't ask to be born here.
choices made by ancestors, ourancestors, their ancestors.
(17:02):
That's the reason why we're heredoesn't mean that we have
different views of life, we canbe exactly the same, we just
have a different background. Sothose are some of the challenges
that you have to face. But youhave to, I think as a person
that comes from minorities, andalso female, you have to be
(17:22):
very, maybe careful, almost, andbe very sensitive on where you
are, and what is the goal thatyou want to achieve, and
communicate in that way. So it'salways do you want to pick this
battle right now? Or is itbetter to do it at a later
(17:43):
stage? When the impact that youcan make is then bigger?
Rocki Howard (17:52):
Absolutely.
Because to have the impactsometimes that we need to have,
we need to make sure we have notonly a seat at a table, but a
seat at the right table to beable to do that. So no, I
really, really appreciate this.
Talk to me about I think aboutbeing the one in the only just
(18:15):
like you talked about right? I'mI'm speaking at an event, and I
am the one and the only have youfaced. I'm sure you face this,
but can you share with theaudience to the extent that
you're comfortable? a situationwhere you have been on the other
side of what we callmicroaggressions? Or sometimes
(18:36):
just blatant questions whereyou've had a colleague appear an
industry peer, someone who justdidn't understand you or
disrespected you, based on yourdimensions of diversity, and can
you help us understand what thatsituation was? And more
importantly, how you handled it?
Sandhna Chintoe (18:54):
I think there are several. When I'm
Unknown (18:59):
surprised again, right?
Sandhna Chintoe (19:02):
Yeah, so I think when people meet me the
first time I'm short, I'm young.
I also look very young. And thenI'm also a girl. So sometimes
when I arrived with my CEO waswhile white male, so they almost
feel like I'm his assistant, Iam someone like in a more
(19:25):
supportive role. And I alwayshave to explain who I am.
Instead of with him, they alwaysassume that he is the boss which
is sometimes very, it is what itis, right? You just accept and
you continue, but sometimes youfeel like they could have done
(19:48):
your research their research,they could have already known.
And then also, you changebehavior because I don't want to
be that, girl. Let's put it likethat. So I taught myself that if
you don't smile, people take youseriously. When I was a lot
(20:11):
younger, I had to give trainingsto big groups of recruiters. I
would wear fake glasses just forpeople to take me serious. And
that will help. Which is crazythat you have to change your
appearance for people to takeyou more seriously because they
see this girl walking into theirboardroom. And I want people to
(20:32):
listen to me. So I stoppedsmiling. That already helped. So
people take you seriouslybecause when you smile, they
think She's a nice girl, I cando whatever during her training.
That's not possible. That won'thappen to me. But I did need to
change things in my appearanceor in my behavior for people to
take me more seriously. In myrole.
Rocki Howard (20:59):
Yeah, yeah, I think about First of all,
honestly, what's going throughmy head is it's a shame anytime
the world is robbed of yoursmile, because it's absolutely
gorgeous. And it just makes youfeel good. And we should never
be robbed of your smile. But asI listened to some of the things
that you've talked about today,it's about you taking
(21:21):
responsibility for how you showup in the world, it's about you
teaching people how to interactwith you. And that is a, it's a
huge responsibility, often knownas an emotional tax, tell us the
impact that some of these thingsthat you've had to take on have
(21:42):
had on you personally, what'sthe emotional tax, you've paid
for your success?
Sandhna Chintoe (21:48):
I think sometimes at the end of the day,
where you had a lot of meetings,you're literally exhausted.
Because you're, you are Yes,yourself but also playing this
role. Right, having to be biggerhaving to raise your voice,
trying to get this subject of awild white dominated a
(22:11):
conversation, go back tosomething that you can also
participate in. So it's that is,I think, very much the price
that that you have to pay. But Ialso think that in when you
invest, and they think that sheknows her stuff, you earn that
respect as well. So I thinkit's, it's a big price to pay,
(22:33):
and you have to maybe work twiceas hard. But when you get there,
it also pays off. And I alsofeel that some it is what you
have to do to get where you wantto be. And then you pay that
price.
Rocki Howard (22:48):
Makes perfect sense. I'm just curious, because
you have multiple dimensions ofdiversity. Is there a bias that
you face? Given those multipledimensions? That's more
frustrating to you then thenanother?
Sandhna Chintoe (23:03):
Yes, for sure.
I think the bias, it used to bemore when I get older, it's
getting less. But when I wasyounger, I also got I've gotten
the comments. Oh, your dad,she's great. And then I said,
Okay, great. But I was bornhere. So it's my first language.
It's almost the only language Ispeak. So why shouldn't it be
(23:24):
great? Little things like that,that people expect that I'm not
that knowledgeable about what Ido when they see me. Little
things like that. When I was ayoung mom, working with my
daughter, and having the thestigma of having of being a teen
(23:45):
mom, and not being able tosucceed in life, or things like
that. It's just, yeah, what isalready there.
Rocki Howard (23:57):
And it's tough.
It's really, really tough. Sonow you are a female tech
executive and a female techexecutive of color who has
certainly overcome tremendousodds. I'm curious, what
responsibility Do you feeltowards other females and tech
Sandhna Chintoe (24:21):
I feel that we should connect more because I
also feel that men connect morethan females I think females we
have to fight and struggle somuch to get where we are that we
are that we sometimes forget tofind allies. To connect more I
feel that men are better ingetting their network and having
(24:43):
this bro men's professional bromen's network in there. If I can
say it's very difficult to getin that male dominated bro
network. So I think we womenshould all So, network more,
gather more. So I'm trying toconnect with more client success
(25:06):
directors who are female, tospeak about their experience to
learn from their experiences,just to feel that we have each
other's backs. And that we canlearn and support each other.
And then also show the worldthat that other girls can be
like this as well. There is roomthere is space, they just need
(25:29):
to take it. Because that's alsowhat it is you need to take it,
Rocki Howard (25:32):
there's room there space, you just need to take it.
I absolutely love that. She youknow what you you talk a little
bit about the importance of allyship and being able to gather
together, I'd like to know ifthere's one thing that you could
say to an ally out ally outthere right now, if there's one
(25:55):
thing that an ally could do tohelp further the diversity cause
to change the diversitynarrative, what's the one thing
you would say go do today?
Sandhna Chintoe (26:09):
I think if you could hire someone that is
different than you are, whoscares you, makes you nervous,
hire that person. Because thatis the person that will make
your company better.
Rocki Howard (26:24):
I love that love that. Let me ask you this, too,
especially because you're aleader in a company, when
companies are now looking attheir diversity initiatives. And
a lot of those initiativesinclude equity initiatives that
give certain demographics, a bitof an advantage so we can get to
(26:45):
equality, we need to get throughequity before we get through
equality. And sometimes there'spushback that that feels like
reverse discrimination. I'd loveto hear your point of view on
that.
Sandhna Chintoe (26:58):
I think, yes, it is reverse discrimination.
But we have to reverse what hasalready happened. And so yes, if
you can hire someone, if you areable to hire someone from a
minority background, then pleasedo because then the 10s of
years, those people have notbeen hired, they have not been
(27:20):
able to get where they need tobe. And that is the reason why
so many companies are notdiverse, because people are
hiring people like themselves.
And then because diverse peoplescare them. That's what I think
they find it difficult to relatemaybe. So if you are hiring more
people that are not likeyourselves, those people will
(27:45):
hire people that are not likethemselves, and that will end
you will become a diversecompany. And before that, it
will never happen.
Rocki Howard (27:57):
representation matters. It really does. She you
know that our platform is allabout giving a voice to those
who are underrepresented. And soI want to give you the mic, I
would really like for you topaint a picture for our audience
for allies that might belistening on what it's felt like
(28:18):
for you, you know, as a youngwoman of color, or early mom,
right? A teenage mom, tell uswhat it's been like for you to
walk through the corporate worldwearing those dimensions of
diversity.
Sandhna Chintoe (28:41):
I think, first of all, you should own them.
Because they make you who youare, and probably are also the
basis of your success. And then,when you are comfortable enough
of with being yourself, you canfind your path to having success
(29:01):
in that corporate life. But itis tricky. You need to be
careful because not everyone isyour ally. Not everyone wants
you at places that you are. Soyou also need to find those
allies and find those supportersthat will help you get on in
your career because those peopleare also people that you need.
(29:23):
And I was lucky enough to findpeople that saw the talent in
me, and then also helped mecontinue on and develop me in
continuing on in that career. Somy advice would be be, be
yourself, embrace who you are.
And also find try to find alliesin your life. And also don't
(29:43):
give up because I also reallyfeel that if you want something,
you can get it but you just needto work hard for it and
sometimes a bit harder thanother people.
Rocki Howard (29:56):
I love that. I am so happy that we were connected
I'm so happy that we're part ofeach other's community now. And
I am so very grateful today foryou being a voice of diversity.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Sandhna Chintoe (30:11):
Thank you so much Rocki for having me.
Rocki Howard (30:15):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
The mission of this podcast isto give a voice to diversity. I
believe that the interactionsbetween all voices, minority and
majority can change thenarrative of how the world
communicates. And by changingthat narrative, we can change
(30:37):
the world. Join our mission tohumanize diversity, one story,
one conversation at a time bysharing our episodes, especially
with those who are privilegedand in positions of power. Help
the voices of diversity podcast,be a catalyst for courageous
(30:57):
conversations, and mostimportantly, for change. I'm
your host Rocki Howard
Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm
your host, Rocki. Howard, andthe purpose of this podcast to
humanize diversity, one story,one conversation at a time. I
want our listeners to understandthe significance and the impact
that racism, bias and an equityhave on real people. I want our
(00:34):
guests to have the opportunityto share the challenges that we
the underrepresented face in thecorporate world, that media is
AI, and the overall world thatwe live in, through sharing,
listening, understanding, andcommitting to take small actions
towards change. Together, we canimpact the diversity narrative,
(00:57):
one story, one conversation at atime. And by changing the
narrative, we can change theworld.
Sandhna Chintoe (01:07):
I think sometimes at the end of the day,
where you had a lot of meetings,you're literally exhausted,
because you're, you are yesyourself but also playing this
role. But I also think that whenyou invest, and they think that
she knows her stuff, you'veearned that respect as well. So
I think it's it's a big price topay and you have to maybe work
(01:29):
twice as hard. But when you getthere, it also based off
Rocki Howard (01:34):
voices of diversity guests. sonnen,
Toronto is managing directorinternational at cameo, sadhana
and I have a woman to woman chatabout being young mothers, the
constant compromises young womenbuilding a career face, and the
resulting emotional tax checkoutsadness episode as she chats to
(01:54):
us, as the voice of the young,gifted, and Hindu.
Good morning, good afternoon.
Good evening from wherever youare in the world. And welcome to
the voices of diversity podcast.
(02:17):
I'm your host Rocki Howard, andI identify us she her black,
Christian, Jen, ex wife, Mom,because I embrace all dimensions
of my diversity. And speaking ofdiversity, you're certainly in
for a treat today with ourguests. I can't wait for her to
tell her story. Sam now will youintroduce yourself to our
(02:37):
audience? And given the multipledimensions of diversity? Let us
know how you identify.
Sandhna Chintoe (02:43):
Hi, Rocky, so and listeners? Yeah, so my name
is Selena gento. I am themanaging director international
for cameo video recruitmentexperts. And I identify as she
her Hindu and also a mother.
Rocki Howard (03:01):
I love that. All right. So tell us how old boy
girl How old?
Sandhna Chintoe (03:06):
My daughter is 20. And I'm 37. So I was a demon
as well. Um, so yeah, we're nowwhen she was born, life was
difficult. Let's be honest, it'snot easy to be 17 to become a
mom, find out who you are as aperson, let alone who you are as
(03:29):
a mother. So that was astruggle. But now 20 years
later, loving it.
Rocki Howard (03:36):
It's incredible.
And I can identify with that Iwasn't quite 17. I was 21 when I
gave birth to my oldest andit's, I'm sure you will agree
with this. Do you remember thatmoment when your daughter turned
17. And you looked at her andyou went? Oh my gosh. That's how
old I was when I gave birth toher. And how young and dumb was
(03:58):
I? Like that's what I did whenwhen I looked at my daughter and
she turned 21 I went, this iscrazy. Did you have that same
moment?
Sandhna Chintoe (04:08):
Exactly. It's exactly the same feeling. I
looked at her. And I went backto my 17 year old and I felt
also bit sorry for this girl whosuddenly became a mom didn't
know and I was so happy for mydaughter that she didn't have to
go through that whirlwind ofemotion and just having an
(04:31):
ability to enjoy her teens as afree carefree, carefree
teenager.
Rocki Howard (04:38):
Yeah, I felt the same for my daughters. Like I
always wanted them to be able toenjoy becoming an adult where I
was just slammed headfirst intoit. And, and you do give up
something, right? So and maybewe'll come back to that. Let's
come back to like that pieces ofourselves that we give up along
(04:59):
the way. Way, I'd love to givesome context to the audience.
Tell them a little bit, I took apeek at your background. And I
know it looks like from what Icould tell you started a bit in
government services. And nowyou're the global Managing
Director for a tech company.
Right? So, and you've done it ata young age, like you just said,
(05:20):
you told us you're 37, and youare the managing director for a
tech company. So I would love toknow a little bit about your
career, how does one go frombeing a teenage mom, to working
for the government to beingunder 40, and a managing
director for a tech company?
Sandhna Chintoe (05:40):
Yeah, it all starts with having a power mom
myself. So my mom is always afirmer lever, because she didn't
have the opportunities growingup. As I did. She grew up
hearing them, which is anunderdeveloped country, she was
allowed to go to school, untilhigh school, and that's it. And
(06:01):
then she had to do help in thehousehold get married, and have
this very traditional life. Soshe got three daughters. So she
had different ideas anddifferent, different what's the
word? ambitions, she haddifferent ambitions for her
(06:21):
daughters, she wanted them tostudy to be successful and lead
the life that she couldn't have.
So when my daughter was born, Iwas still studying. So I was in
college. And she said to me,okay, you're a mom now, but I
will help you as much as I canto achieve whatever you want to
achieve. So that's where itstarted. So I was allowed to do
(06:44):
my whole degree, to then startworking at the government when I
when I graduated. And working ingovernment is very nice job.
It's a stable job. It's aflexible job. And especially
when you're a young mom, you cancombine it very easily. And the
(07:04):
hours drop off your childrencome back early, because your
schedule is so flexible, becausea government job is just that
flexible. But for me and myambition, it just wasn't enough.
I was expected to do X, when youcould do X, Y, Zed.
Rocki Howard (07:26):
That's, that's a tasty little nugget. Like, we
sometimes get comfortable doingx when we're capable of doing x,
y, and Zed. I love that callout.
Sandhna Chintoe (07:37):
Exactly. So then just doing x made me very
unhappy. I just couldn'tanymore. So I did something very
bold, I just quit my job. Isaid, I'm sorry. At first I
discussed with my mom, ofcourse, because I needed some
Rocki Howard (07:57):
help, right?
Actually, I
Sandhna Chintoe (07:59):
needed some help at mom. so unhappy, I'm
just going to quit and she said,You do what you need to do, I
will be here, I will be here. Sothen I quit my job. And through
a friend, I got a job at a jobboard, where I was the sales
support type of person who wasjust posting job ads, helping
(08:20):
the sales team achieve theirtargets, just a very supportive
role. And within that role, Ialso noticed that I'm very good
with clients. And I'm good onthe on the operational side. So
then quickly, I grew in becominga key account manager where our
help to key accounts withrecruitment, how to post a job
advert, how to search forcandidates, and more and more I
(08:45):
was being becoming responsiblefor for retention. So a half,
half commercial, commercial job.
But also what I found out was mytech affinity. He was really
good with speaking todevelopers, really good
translating those developerneeds with sales, because sales
and development, they don'tcombine. They don't
Rocki Howard (09:09):
speak the same language do.
Sandhna Chintoe (09:11):
They don't speak the same language at all.
So I was really good in likebeing this translator in between
sales and tech, but then alsothe client at one point. So I
really found that my skills incommunications and understanding
different people and thentranslating different messages
(09:32):
to those different people wassomehow like my skill, I was
very adaptable for thosedifferent people. So then I
decided it may be time now tomove on to a tech company.
Because this is where the futurelies. Tech is where we are going
to be and I want to be more intech. So I applied for this role
(09:55):
for this great tech company whowere building custom software.
And I had to disart designsoftware together with my client
go back to development, and theywould build it. So it was a very
technical role, which was great.
But the job itself was great,but I didn't get the flexibility
(10:17):
that I needed to live my life.
So my work life balance was off.
So that was very difficultbecause you have this job that
you love, but then you couldn'tcombine it with your private
life, because I'm still a mom.
And that was still veryimportant. So then I decided to
take on the job at cameo startedas the client success, a client
(10:41):
success manager, where Iimplemented the video
recruitment services within therecruitment processes. So to
really change and shaperecruitment processes, then grew
on to be the head of clientsuccess. So I built the entire
client success strategy. Andthat also held up the client
success team, which was followedby my next promotion as the
(11:01):
manager directing.
Rocki Howard (11:03):
Yep, that is such an incredible story. I'm so
proud of you, to you. And Ithink it leads to a couple of
questions in my mind. But Ithink the most important of
those is, you didn't grow upwanting to be in tech, right?
Somewhere along the line, youfound that you had an affinity
(11:23):
for it. You and I both know thatthere is a gap of women, and
certainly women of color intech, right, both of us as women
in tech. Tell me, how do youthink we can encourage more
women to come into the techspace? Yeah,
Sandhna Chintoe (11:42):
I think that most women are maybe a bit held
back or scared, because whenthey look at the tech space,
it's white male dominated. Let'sjust call it as it is. Last
week, I was a speaker at anevent, it was white males. And
me.
Unknown (12:05):
I'm shocked. No, certainly you're wrong. I'm
Sandhna Chintoe (12:08):
shot. You're very funny poster as well with
all the faces. And me. And so Ithink, girls, you already know
growing up kind of if you'regood in tech or not. I already
knew but I never realized thatyou were different, or that you
were better in understandingtech than maybe other people.
(12:31):
But kind of you knew when yousee a new program, or when you
are learning to deal with a newsoftware program. Sometimes you
learn it very quickly, and otherpeople don't. So I think you
already know that you have thisaffinity with tech. And
sometimes it's really good toexplore that affinity because I
(12:54):
also think that, you know,growing up as a girl, you're
never encouraged to do tech,you're encouraged in in the
direction of more the socialkind of jobs,
Unknown (13:07):
or,
Sandhna Chintoe (13:09):
or a rule where you think you can combine it
better with a family life alsopossible. And when you look at
the tech world, you see, it'sfast. You see it's hard work.
And you also see a lot of whitemale. But I do think that if
you're there, when you'reactually there, it's different
than what you think it is.
Rocki Howard (13:30):
Fair enough. If I'm not mistaking you are based
in the Netherlands, right?
Unknown (13:35):
I am.
Rocki Howard (13:36):
Okay, so I have to tell you, when I think of
Netherlands, I think of whitemale, like I can't see anything
else in the Netherlands. Right?
Can you give our audience asense of what the diversity
landscape looks like in theNetherlands?
Sandhna Chintoe (13:53):
Yeah, so the majority is white here. And then
we have a lot of North Africanpeople. So also people from
India, a lot of Indonesianpeople because the Netherlands
were very active in thecolonization of the world. So
they they had their little pigin a lot of countries. So there
(14:18):
are a lot of Chinese a lot ofIndonesian, and then also a lot
of people from Suriname, becausethey were also a colony until
1975, which is a small countryin South America, next to above
Brazil. And since 1975, went tonow became independence, my
(14:39):
whole family decided to move tothe Netherlands.
Rocki Howard (14:43):
Very cool. Very cool. Let's, let's go back and
pick up on this, you know, kindof some of the challenges you've
had in your career, right? Andwhen I think about you've
accomplished these milestones ata young age, you're a woman
you're a woman of color, Color,you are a young mom, tell me how
(15:04):
those factors have made yourcareer journey a bit more
challenging.
Sandhna Chintoe (15:11):
I think from a young age, I already realized
that I was different. And thatif I wanted to achieve things I
had to adapt. So when you applyfor a role, I know with my name,
that my CV would probably end upon this reject pile. So I know
(15:34):
that before I apply for a role,I need to call the company
first, then they will hear myvoice, then they think, ah, she
speaks fluent Dutch. This is avery nice person. So I humanize
my, my profile, let's call itthat. So from a very young age,
(15:55):
I already realized that in thisgame, I need to humanize myself.
So that's step one. And thenstep two, I think, in all these
white dominated companies, youhave to slowly teach them what
it is to have someone from adifferent background in that
(16:18):
company thinks they can, thinksthey can't do things they can
say things take or not say, alsoin the recruitment process, when
people let's be honest, peoplewith a funny name, or being
rejected by the fact that theyhave a funny name, pick a fight,
(16:40):
because you know that it's notacceptable for a recruitment
process to go like that. Becausethese are people like you and I,
people that were born in theNetherlands, based in the
Netherlands, just have adifferent background. They
didn't ask to be born here.
choices made by ancestors, ourancestors, their ancestors.
(17:02):
That's the reason why we're heredoesn't mean that we have
different views of life, we canbe exactly the same, we just
have a different background. Sothose are some of the challenges
that you have to face. But youhave to, I think as a person
that comes from minorities, andalso female, you have to be
(17:22):
very, maybe careful, almost, andbe very sensitive on where you
are, and what is the goal thatyou want to achieve, and
communicate in that way. So it'salways do you want to pick this
battle right now? Or is itbetter to do it at a later
(17:43):
stage? When the impact that youcan make is then bigger?
Rocki Howard (17:52):
Absolutely.
Because to have the impactsometimes that we need to have,
we need to make sure we have notonly a seat at a table, but a
seat at the right table to beable to do that. So no, I
really, really appreciate this.
Talk to me about I think aboutbeing the one in the only just
(18:15):
like you talked about right? I'mI'm speaking at an event, and I
am the one and the only have youfaced. I'm sure you face this,
but can you share with theaudience to the extent that
you're comfortable? a situationwhere you have been on the other
side of what we callmicroaggressions? Or sometimes
(18:36):
just blatant questions whereyou've had a colleague appear an
industry peer, someone who justdidn't understand you or
disrespected you, based on yourdimensions of diversity, and can
you help us understand what thatsituation was? And more
importantly, how you handled it?
Sandhna Chintoe (18:54):
I think there are several. When I'm
Unknown (18:59):
surprised again, right?
Sandhna Chintoe (19:02):
Yeah, so I think when people meet me the
first time I'm short, I'm young.
I also look very young. And thenI'm also a girl. So sometimes
when I arrived with my CEO waswhile white male, so they almost
feel like I'm his assistant, Iam someone like in a more
(19:25):
supportive role. And I alwayshave to explain who I am.
Instead of with him, they alwaysassume that he is the boss which
is sometimes very, it is what itis, right? You just accept and
you continue, but sometimes youfeel like they could have done
(19:48):
your research their research,they could have already known.
And then also, you changebehavior because I don't want to
be that, girl. Let's put it likethat. So I taught myself that if
you don't smile, people take youseriously. When I was a lot
(20:11):
younger, I had to give trainingsto big groups of recruiters. I
would wear fake glasses just forpeople to take me serious. And
that will help. Which is crazythat you have to change your
appearance for people to takeyou more seriously because they
see this girl walking into theirboardroom. And I want people to
(20:32):
listen to me. So I stoppedsmiling. That already helped. So
people take you seriouslybecause when you smile, they
think She's a nice girl, I cando whatever during her training.
That's not possible. That won'thappen to me. But I did need to
change things in my appearanceor in my behavior for people to
take me more seriously. In myrole.
Rocki Howard (20:59):
Yeah, yeah, I think about First of all,
honestly, what's going throughmy head is it's a shame anytime
the world is robbed of yoursmile, because it's absolutely
gorgeous. And it just makes youfeel good. And we should never
be robbed of your smile. But asI listened to some of the things
that you've talked about today,it's about you taking
(21:21):
responsibility for how you showup in the world, it's about you
teaching people how to interactwith you. And that is a, it's a
huge responsibility, often knownas an emotional tax, tell us the
impact that some of these thingsthat you've had to take on have
(21:42):
had on you personally, what'sthe emotional tax, you've paid
for your success?
Sandhna Chintoe (21:48):
I think sometimes at the end of the day,
where you had a lot of meetings,you're literally exhausted.
Because you're, you are Yes,yourself but also playing this
role. Right, having to be biggerhaving to raise your voice,
trying to get this subject of awild white dominated a
(22:11):
conversation, go back tosomething that you can also
participate in. So it's that is,I think, very much the price
that that you have to pay. But Ialso think that in when you
invest, and they think that sheknows her stuff, you earn that
respect as well. So I thinkit's, it's a big price to pay,
(22:33):
and you have to maybe work twiceas hard. But when you get there,
it also pays off. And I alsofeel that some it is what you
have to do to get where you wantto be. And then you pay that
price.
Rocki Howard (22:48):
Makes perfect sense. I'm just curious, because
you have multiple dimensions ofdiversity. Is there a bias that
you face? Given those multipledimensions? That's more
frustrating to you then thenanother?
Sandhna Chintoe (23:03):
Yes, for sure.
I think the bias, it used to bemore when I get older, it's
getting less. But when I wasyounger, I also got I've gotten
the comments. Oh, your dad,she's great. And then I said,
Okay, great. But I was bornhere. So it's my first language.
It's almost the only language Ispeak. So why shouldn't it be
(23:24):
great? Little things like that,that people expect that I'm not
that knowledgeable about what Ido when they see me. Little
things like that. When I was ayoung mom, working with my
daughter, and having the thestigma of having of being a teen
(23:45):
mom, and not being able tosucceed in life, or things like
that. It's just, yeah, what isalready there.
Rocki Howard (23:57):
And it's tough.
It's really, really tough. Sonow you are a female tech
executive and a female techexecutive of color who has
certainly overcome tremendousodds. I'm curious, what
responsibility Do you feeltowards other females and tech
Sandhna Chintoe (24:21):
I feel that we should connect more because I
also feel that men connect morethan females I think females we
have to fight and struggle somuch to get where we are that we
are that we sometimes forget tofind allies. To connect more I
feel that men are better ingetting their network and having
(24:43):
this bro men's professional bromen's network in there. If I can
say it's very difficult to getin that male dominated bro
network. So I think we womenshould all So, network more,
gather more. So I'm trying toconnect with more client success
(25:06):
directors who are female, tospeak about their experience to
learn from their experiences,just to feel that we have each
other's backs. And that we canlearn and support each other.
And then also show the worldthat that other girls can be
like this as well. There is roomthere is space, they just need
(25:29):
to take it. Because that's alsowhat it is you need to take it,
Rocki Howard (25:32):
there's room there space, you just need to take it.
I absolutely love that. She youknow what you you talk a little
bit about the importance of allyship and being able to gather
together, I'd like to know ifthere's one thing that you could
say to an ally out ally outthere right now, if there's one
(25:55):
thing that an ally could do tohelp further the diversity cause
to change the diversitynarrative, what's the one thing
you would say go do today?
Sandhna Chintoe (26:09):
I think if you could hire someone that is
different than you are, whoscares you, makes you nervous,
hire that person. Because thatis the person that will make
your company better.
Rocki Howard (26:24):
I love that love that. Let me ask you this, too,
especially because you're aleader in a company, when
companies are now looking attheir diversity initiatives. And
a lot of those initiativesinclude equity initiatives that
give certain demographics, a bitof an advantage so we can get to
(26:45):
equality, we need to get throughequity before we get through
equality. And sometimes there'spushback that that feels like
reverse discrimination. I'd loveto hear your point of view on
that.
Sandhna Chintoe (26:58):
I think, yes, it is reverse discrimination.
But we have to reverse what hasalready happened. And so yes, if
you can hire someone, if you areable to hire someone from a
minority background, then pleasedo because then the 10s of
years, those people have notbeen hired, they have not been
(27:20):
able to get where they need tobe. And that is the reason why
so many companies are notdiverse, because people are
hiring people like themselves.
And then because diverse peoplescare them. That's what I think
they find it difficult to relatemaybe. So if you are hiring more
people that are not likeyourselves, those people will
(27:45):
hire people that are not likethemselves, and that will end
you will become a diversecompany. And before that, it
will never happen.
Rocki Howard (27:57):
representation matters. It really does. She you
know that our platform is allabout giving a voice to those
who are underrepresented. And soI want to give you the mic, I
would really like for you topaint a picture for our audience
for allies that might belistening on what it's felt like
(28:18):
for you, you know, as a youngwoman of color, or early mom,
right? A teenage mom, tell uswhat it's been like for you to
walk through the corporate worldwearing those dimensions of
diversity.
Sandhna Chintoe (28:41):
I think, first of all, you should own them.
Because they make you who youare, and probably are also the
basis of your success. And then,when you are comfortable enough
of with being yourself, you canfind your path to having success
(29:01):
in that corporate life. But itis tricky. You need to be
careful because not everyone isyour ally. Not everyone wants
you at places that you are. Soyou also need to find those
allies and find those supportersthat will help you get on in
your career because those peopleare also people that you need.
(29:23):
And I was lucky enough to findpeople that saw the talent in
me, and then also helped mecontinue on and develop me in
continuing on in that career. Somy advice would be be, be
yourself, embrace who you are.
And also find try to find alliesin your life. And also don't
(29:43):
give up because I also reallyfeel that if you want something,
you can get it but you just needto work hard for it and
sometimes a bit harder thanother people.
Rocki Howard (29:56):
I love that. I am so happy that we were connected
I'm so happy that we're part ofeach other's community now. And
I am so very grateful today foryou being a voice of diversity.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Sandhna Chintoe (30:11):
Thank you so much Rocki for having me.
Rocki Howard (30:15):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
The mission of this podcast isto give a voice to diversity. I
believe that the interactionsbetween all voices, minority and
majority can change thenarrative of how the world
communicates. And by changingthat narrative, we can change
(30:37):
the world. Join our mission tohumanize diversity, one story,
one conversation at a time bysharing our episodes, especially
with those who are privilegedand in positions of power. Help
the voices of diversity podcast,be a catalyst for courageous
(30:57):
conversations, and mostimportantly, for change. I'm
your host Rocki Howard
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.