February 1, 2021 • 33 mins
I'm Rocki Howard and I'm not only your host, but I am proud to be Chief Diversity Officer at SmartRecruiters.
In honor of Black History Month, The Voices of Diversity podcast is kicking off our Black Leadership Series sponsored by SmartRecruiters with my colleague Kave Bulambo.
Kave Bulumbo is SmartRecruiters' EMEA Director of Talent Acquisition and Diversity and Inclusion. Kave is also the Founder of Black in Tech in Berlin.
Kave has a Bachelor's Degree in Industrial Psychology and a Masters Degree in Public Policy and uses her boundless energy to advocate for gender and immigrant rights.
In this episode, Kave speaks boldly about her journey to identify as a black woman, the ramifications of bringing your whole self to work, and how being a black woman in Corporate America feels like walking on glass.
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Episode Transcript
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Rocki Howard (00:15):
Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm
your host Rocki. Howard, Iidentify as she, her black,
Christian GenX, wife, mom. Theseattributes are dimensions of my
diversity of who I am. They arepart of my unique value
(00:38):
proposition and how I add valueto the world. And I believe it
is time for the world to hearthe stories of people like me,
those who are underrepresentedin corporate America. The
mission of this podcast is tohumanize diversity, one story,
one conversation at a time toshare the impact on those who
(01:01):
identify as beingunderrepresented as they go
through life in corporateAmerica. I hope you will listen
to this episode with open heartsand open minds. As today's
guests tell their story. Theyare a voice of diversity.
(01:25):
February in certain parts of theglobe is known as Black History
Month. In acknowledgment,celebrate celebration, and in
partnership with our sponsorsmart recruiters. We will be
hosting a series of chats withjust a few smart recruiters best
and brightest black leaders. Ifyou are not familiar, smart
recruiters is leading the moderntalent acquisition suite market
(01:48):
and I am so proud to be smartrecruiters Chief Diversity
Officer ready to replace yourold school ATMs and help your
organization achieve hiringsuccess. Then check us out at
smart recruiters.com we aregoing to launch the series with
cafe bellomo Coffee smartrecruiters imia Director of
(02:11):
talent acquisition and diversityand inclusion. She is also the
founder of black and techBerlin, a community that
provides engagement educationand a support system for black
tech professionals living inBerlin, Germany. kabe has a
bachelor's degree in Industrialpsychology and a master's degree
(02:31):
in Public Policy. Kava uses herboundless energy to advocate for
gender and immigrant rights.
While spending her days focusedon bringing more women of every
color into the tech space. Thisis going to be a great episode.
As coffee Belinda shares herexperiences as the voice of
black leadership.
(03:03):
Welcome to a very specialepisode of the voices of
diversity podcast. And one ofthe reasons why this episode is
so special is because I get tochat with my friend and my smart
recruiters colleague kabe today.
And so this should be a great,great conversation. So Connie, I
want to kick it over to you Willyou please introduce yourself to
(03:25):
our audience? And given themultiple dimensions of
diversity? Tell us how youidentify.
Kave Bulambo (03:33):
Awesome Thank you for having me. I'm excited. It's
also actually going to be blackhistory month in Germany in
February. So we have a lot tocelebrate together across
nations. So I am First of all, Iidentify as she her hers. I'm
(03:53):
also a mom, I'm also wife, Misssister also identifies an
advocate for gender rights forwomen and girls. I'm an
immigrant and the child ofimmigrants are second
generation. And my children arethird generation immigrant. And
professionally, I'm a talentacquisition specialist.
Rocki Howard (04:16):
I love that. So you are immigrants. You're
currently living in Germany.
Where is your origin for what?
What's your origin?
Kave Bulambo (04:25):
I forgot about that. I was born in the Congo in
the DRC. And I spent half of myadult life in South Africa
before mobile. Oh, wow.
Rocki Howard (04:39):
Wow. Wow. I love that. So tell me do you identify
as being black? Do you identifyas being African from a cultural
perspective? How do youidentify? Hmm.
Kave Bulambo (04:52):
So I've actually it's been a journey for me in
terms of finding my identity andhow it changes across time. In
spaces. So from the DRC point ofview, we identify ourselves as
Congolese. So from that point onour is just a Congolese young
woman. And it's only when Imoved to South Africa when I
started learning about thedifferences between races. And
(05:16):
of course, this is because ofthe history of South Africa.
Everybody is divided accordingto race. So I became black in
South Africa. But I fully fullydid not own it, I still cling to
my Congolese, I'm Congolese, butI'm living in South Africa, I
didn't, there was no space whereI needed to go every day and
say, I'm black. And that isbecause black people are the
(05:40):
majority in South Africa. Sowe're, you know, we feel at
home. But I was introduced toblackness in South Africa, and
in only up amplified when Imoved to Germany, when we became
a minority, you know, in Europe,and I really, you know, I didn't
(06:02):
fully own the the terminology orthe identity black, but that's
how we are identified here inGermany. And so of course, in
the beginning, I was stillsaying I'm Congolese, and I'm
African. That's what I wassaying. And then eventually, I
just, you know, suck, you know,what, everybody every term that
(06:26):
is, you know, in relation topeople who look like me in
German, yeah, he says black, hedoesn't say African. And there's
really nothing wrong with it.
Personally. There are someexperiences where it means
something bad, but I have feltlike why not on the identity are
black, and I'm African, youknow, with, with African
ancestry, you know, I mean,eventually, we all have African
(06:51):
ancestry. Right. So
Rocki Howard (06:57):
I love that. I love that. And, you know, I do
think that I appreciate yousharing your journey with us,
because I think it opens up athought process for people about
how many people have to go onthat type of journey, just to be
able to identify. So that's apowerful, powerful story. And
(07:20):
it, it leads me to a questionthat I want to ask you, right,
and I don't know if you have anopinion on this, but there's
lots of conversations aboutcultural categorization, for
lack of a better term. And so wehear the term bipoc, we hear the
term epic. Now, we hear the termminority, we hear
(07:41):
underrepresented. What do youthink is the right term? Do you
have one of those terms that youlike more than another? Do you
have a recommendation? What'syour point of view?
Kave Bulambo (07:54):
Okay. So before, before starting the work that I
do around advocacy for blackpeople, and people of African
descent in Germany, I wastotally fine with people going
with whatever they wanted to gowith. But then when the
conversation really about BlackLives Matter came up, and you
know, we started talking aboutracism, I realized that people
(08:17):
have a hard time saying black,they just have a hard time
saying black, because then itbrings up to the surface, all
the connotations that go withthe term black in this society.
So it's not that we I feel badabout being black, I don't feel
bad. I don't walk aroundthinking I'm black. I just walk
around as a human being, youknow, going my way, you know,
(08:39):
doing the things that I loveuntil I am reminded, you know,
of the color of my skin thenabout Oh, okay, I'm black, you
know, so those are the onlyinstances so for for people who
are not black, it's hard forthem to say, black, you know,
and I would encourage people tosay black, it's not a bad thing
(09:01):
to say, black people, blackchildren, black women, black
men, like there's really nothingwrong about it. It's really,
what do you have behind that?
That matters? You know, in whatcontext? Are you speaking about
black people? When it comes tobipoc? I feel like it's like a
scapegoat, like, an escape routeto say, you know, we have bipoc
(09:25):
you know, employees, what, whatdoes that mean? You know, what,
what does it mean? You know,because it means black people of
color, you know, indigenouspeople, do you really have them
in your company? Really? Do youreally have them? You know, so I
would encourage people toidentify people as they are and
(09:47):
off really, like put everyone ina basket and put them under one
experiences, because I can'treally claim the experiences of
Indigenous women in the US. Wedon't have indigenous people in
Germany, for example, like, youknow, so it's really the context
within which we use these terms,or people who are not from this
(10:09):
particular group, it's really totheir advantage and to escape
their realities and the actionsthat they need to take, you
know, that red dress, they're onracism or actions that they need
to take around diversity.
Rocki Howard (10:24):
So just be bold, to own it be bold. If you're, if
you're it's an uncomfortablething for some people get
comfortable being uncomfortable.
And if you don't know howsomeone identifies, just as I
Kave Bulambo (10:38):
just asked them, I have no problem telling them a
black woman, you
Rocki Howard (10:43):
know, got it. You mentioned that you are obviously
identify as a talent acquisitionprofessional, and you've also
been a strong advocate. So canyou tell us a little bit about
your career, tell us what you dofor a living. Tell us what
you've done for a living. Tellus how you got to your current
(11:04):
role. And for those that don'tknow, have a is smart recruiters
director of talent acquisitionand diversity. So take us on a
bit of a journey coffee, tell usa little bit about how you got
in this industry. The otheradvocacy work that I believe led
you to here and then how youwound up in this role.
Kave Bulambo (11:26):
Thank you that you mentioned that it's a it's a
journey that should take you onthe journey. Because I feel like
every career path is a journeythat you go on as an individual
that will lead you to where youare at the moment. Of course,
that's if you're conscious aboutit. But if I have to look back,
I've always had this desire tohelp people. And so I didn't
(11:49):
want to be a doctor, I didn'twant to be a psychotherapist, I
said I want some other kind ofproblems that I can help people
with, that does not involve reallife personal experiences. And
so I choose to study I chose tostudy psychology. Wow. And then
I majored in industrialpsychology because I really
(12:10):
wanted to be in the workingworld or the labor, you know,
conversation. So I majored inindustrial psychology. And when
I finished my bachelor's degree,I started to work with a
nonprofit organization. And myjob, there was a trainer. And I
used to train young people tobecome young leaders, young
(12:33):
professionals ready to startthinking about their lives
overall, in high school, andonce completing that they go
into the world. And it was sucha fulfilling experience
Unknown (12:44):
that I can imagine,
Kave Bulambo (12:46):
that I had, but that was really the foundation
of really like me delving intothe people space. Next to that,
of course, I always drove frommy own experiences and life
experiences. I thought about mymom, moving to South Africa as
an immigrant woman, and myselfand my siblings, and I'm the
(13:07):
first graduate. So in my family.
And I have been afforded so manyopportunities from the get go
simply because I went to school.
And so I take that with me,every time I have something
better, I look around and seewho needs it. And so I've always
carried this, this passion tohelp women, especially women
(13:28):
from migrant background, becauseof my mom, of course. And with
that, I studied gender studies,I took another degree to do
gender studies, and also wasdoing community work with
refugee women in South Africa.
And this was mostly to empowerthem to find a way to live
sustainably. And why do this isbecause migrant women are not
(13:51):
afforded the opportunity to getjobs, so they don't get four
more jobs. So they think formore markets. And so they have
to survive. And some of thethings that they need is
language skills, and skills. Andyou know, as I evolve, I thought
of more things like suing orcomputer skills or anything that
they can do with their hands.
(14:14):
And yeah, we I started an NGOcalled women across Buddha's.
Rocki Howard (14:21):
Like, I just want to pause there for a minute, you
just say that, like most peoplejust wake up in the morning and
start an NGO. Right, let's pausefor a minute. It's an incredible
accomplishment.
Kave Bulambo (14:35):
Thank you, thank you. But as I always think about
the things that I have in myhand, and I the influence that I
have, and I think about whocould this influence that I have
benefits, you know, because Ialready have this power, this
authority, this knowledge, thisconnections, and I just use them
(14:55):
in the best way that I can andit is through that work with
women. refugee women, migrantwomen that led me to Germany to
pursue a master's degree inPublic Policy, because I figured
out that, yes, you can workrestrooms, but actually, the
policies matter more. And Ineeded to, I felt like I needed
(15:16):
a higher position to actuallyinfluence the rules and the laws
that we put in place to ensurethat women and girls are
successful, especially refugeewomen,
Rocki Howard (15:26):
sustainable impact and sustainable change. Exactly.
And
Kave Bulambo (15:29):
so I embarked on the journey to study public
policy and global governance inGermany. And it was really
great, really good learningexperience. And once I completed
that, by some miracle, I guessit was meant to be the first job
(15:49):
I got was in HR and not inpublic policy. And I was just
like, what is this? I want towork in policy, I want to
influence policy. And, you know,I, I struggled a little bit to
figure out how to connect this,my previous career experiences
to my, to my current environmentis was Germany, I hadn't seen
(16:14):
the impact of everything that Ihad done before, and how they
could incorporate in thissociety, because there's always
this idea that the developedworld is way ahead, is more
advanced. And so there's reallynothing to fix. But the truth
is, there are as many immigrantwomen here, there's many refugee
(16:36):
women here, there's many womenat work here, who are looking
for very, very similaropportunities that the women
that are in Africa in otherplaces are looking for. And so
when I was able to connect thosedots, between finding space for
women, and underrepresentedgroups in the workspace, and I
(16:58):
was so fortunate to be in tech,oh, Zack, Oh, my gosh, there's
this whole industry, cooltechnology, oh, my goodness,
that women can just learn how tocode, you know, this is all they
need. And so I starteddeveloping my passion from
there, how to bring more women,more people of underrepresented
(17:19):
groups into technology, andfinding out how everything else
studied actually led me to thisspace that I am in today. And
since then, I've been in Berlin,working in the talent
acquisition field, also doing alot of employer branding and
community building. I'm sopassionate about community
building. Even if you don't payme to do that, I'll find a way
(17:43):
to do that. And so next to mytalent acquisition role, I've
also started a community calledBlack in tech Berlin, you know,
where we empower blackprofessionals, we see where
they're, what are they lookingfor? And how can we create a
space where they can accessresources and opportunities.
Rocki Howard (18:05):
We'll make sure that the link to that resource
group is connected in our shownotes so that people can support
it. I love that I love that youyou. It's incredible. And you do
that, and your wife and mom aswell. It's absolutely incredible
what you do. I can't believewe're already halfway through
our time today. You There'ssomething I want to ask you, as
(18:30):
we transition, a little bit ofan echo kind of weird. I'm sure
there's something I want to askyou as we transition, right. And
you live in multiple worlds,you've lived in multiple
locations, you speak multiplelanguages. And there is this
thing that I believe several ofus who are minorities in the
(18:54):
workspace, and especially whenyou're black, we have to engage
in and it's called codeswitching, right? So I want you
to tell me is essentially, inall of the ways that you've
worked? Can you tell us about asituation where maybe you felt
the need to code switch tomaintain your career status or
(19:15):
to move forward?
Kave Bulambo (19:17):
So I, when I was thinking about that question, I
felt like I had to do a lot ofcode switching in the beginning
of my career. So I could justfit in, especially here in
Berlin, because most of the timewas the only black woman on team
or the only black woman in theentire company. So I had to just
(19:39):
like, you know, do the thingsthat the majority of people were
doing, you know, I have kids,most of the phone team did not
have kids. And that was reallythe hardest part because people
did not understand why I had toleave early. Why I had to attend
a school meeting. You know,everybody was in their 20s and
(19:59):
you know, just completelydifferent kind of, of
backgrounds. And so exampleswill be like, let's go out after
work, suck, man, I can do thisonce, you know, once a month,
but I don't want to do thisevery Friday, you know, but if I
didn't do that, then I wasconsidered not a team player,
(20:22):
you know, right. At the back ofmy mind, every time I'm there,
I'm just thinking about my kids.
You know, I'm just like, I don'tknow what's happening at home.
But I need to get out of here.
But you know, in that moment, Ihave to just be there and
pretend that everything is fine.
So those who are like, mymoment, of course, switching as
(20:43):
a mom,
Rocki Howard (20:46):
it shouldn't be to make a decision for caring for
your children, or going out tofeel like you're included,
right? So that's a message tothe people who are listening in
in the majority, you need toreally think about how you you
are forcing people toparticipate in activities,
(21:09):
because the other side of it isexclusion. Right? Go ahead, you
were gonna share another bitwith us. Yeah,
Kave Bulambo (21:15):
another thing that I did, though, was code
switching, but in a positiveway. I just decided to be like,
extra black. Like, I was justlike, you know what, I have no
time for this. I just like cutmy hair. And just like, you
know, I became really vocalabout, you know, who I am and
(21:36):
the things that I want to do andthe things that I like to do.
And the things that I think I'mnot supposed to be doing, you
know, and really like havingcandid conversations, and they
did not go down? Well, becausethey expectation is, you know, I
should be told what to do, youknow, and I was not standing up
(21:58):
for that. And that really mademy life a nightmare. Like one
company, I worked at
Rocki Howard (22:03):
how so let's dig into that. Like, what were the
repercussions? You know, so weespecially in the tech industry,
right? We love to say in tech,bring your whole self to work.
So tell this audience, what werethe ramifications when you
actually brought your whole selfto work, I was considered
difficult.
Kave Bulambo (22:24):
I was no longer included in some conversations,
especially in meetings. I wasnot considered the most, you
know, the one of thecontributors, important
contributors on team, because hewas currently now difficult to
work with me. My manager foundit hard to have conversation
(22:46):
with me and they will haveconversation with somebody else
to come in Tell me. And theperson of course, will be a
senior and I will just like tellthem how how it is and how it
was. And of course, then itbecomes like a game a chase
game. But I said I'm just gonnabe as honest as possible. But I
don't think this is the way it'ssupposed to be. If they felt
(23:08):
that way, they need to come backto me and tell tell me. Yeah, I
had moments where I was told offduring meetings with literally I
am presenting and somebody onteam will stand up and say, No,
that's not true. Just likeyou're supposed to be on my
team. If it's true, or if it'snot true, you're supposed to
(23:31):
message me or say it in a wayHey, Kobe. You know, I was also
looking at the same numbers, thesame statistics, and I saw this
maybe, is it the same thing,you're talking about this the
way you talk to someone? Not ina way that shows them that
you're on the same team withyou? And there's the way you
talk to someone when you want todiscredit them? And that was my
(23:54):
scenario. It that specificcompany, and it was,
Rocki Howard (23:59):
hell. Gosh, how, like you said it was held,
describe how that made you feel?
And ultimately, I think thelesson is, you're obviously not
with that company anymore.
Right? You chose not to workthere. But help our audience for
someone who's never been in thatsituation. help people
(24:20):
understand what that felt likepersonally for you.
Kave Bulambo (24:24):
It was really, really sad. So the context
everybody has to understand thatI was the only black person on
team I was the only black womanI was the only parent on my
team. And everybody else on Teamfelt that they were better than
me simply because they felt theywere better than me. Do I better
(24:45):
doing the jobs and this was myfirst time being in tech. So I
think you know that was beingused against me because you
know, as Tom said, we all needto learn understand where we are
trying to connect the dots. Youknow, so that we can fully do
our work. But I was never giventhat opportunity. So, you know,
(25:06):
instances like not being invitedto Team lunches, like saying hi
to managers that they walk pastme, like straight. Like, I'm
looking at you Rocky. And Isaid, Hi, and you will pass me.
I used to cry. Honestly, I usedto come home. And I tell my
husband, though, like, you know,I don't want to go back there. I
(25:27):
do not want to go back there. Iusually used to cry. And there
are people in other team that'sso what happened to me what was
happening in it, but they had noinfluence to like, you know,
change the way people treated mein that team. But they did come
to me and say, We're so sorryabout what's happening. You're
(25:47):
such a great person, you know,just keep doing what you're
doing. But you know, yeah,that's just how it was. Wow,
until I decided that okay, thisis it. This is the end of this
journey, by us really, from topup?
Rocki Howard (26:04):
Yeah. So I want to, I want to stop there for a
minute. For a lot of people. Ifyou ask them, they will say that
they are an ally, okay. But whenthe moment comes to be able to
speak up, defend someone, andchallenge the behavior that
other people are imposing, onunderrepresented, those allies
(26:30):
often don't take that stand, youare not an ally, if you sneak
behind the curtain, and sayyou're a great person, you are
an ally, if you stand with thatperson, and look the bully in
the face and say, This is notacceptable. So while we're on
the subject of allies, Covey,has there been someone that you
(26:55):
would call out as a great ally?
And a mentor to you that hassupported your career? And if
so, could you tell us a littlebit about that person? And how
they've made a difference foryou?
Kave Bulambo (27:06):
Yes. So in that same environment, I had two
women, I see three women, whowere my allies. Of course, they
did not, you know, come to myteam and kind of intervene and,
you know, and say what you'redoing is really not great. But
they will literally like makesure like, we they will invite
(27:26):
me for lunch, we'll talk about,you know, our work outside of,
you know, what we do thecompany? What kind of projects
are we doing? What am I lookingfor? What are they looking for?
Usually, these allies, they werenot from this specific context.
So there are also women whomoved to Germany, you know, to
pursue their careers. But amongthem, there were two women who
(27:49):
identify as white and one womanwho identify as Asian. And
they're really, really, reallytreated me well. And up to
today, we still have contact andthe kind of conversations we had
one not necessarily like, megoing to them and say, Hey, you
know what, I have the situationin my team, what do you think I
(28:09):
should do? We'll have thisconversation who I'll go and cry
to them. And they will be there,listen to me, and say, oh, my
goodness, we wish, you know,things were better, but stay
strong, stay smart, you know,we're gonna create the, you
know, diversity resource group,you know, and we'll join it
together with you and otherpeople. And to me, it's only
(28:34):
after, after leaving, then Irealize how much that support
was so important for me in thatmoment, you know, because as
soon as I'm sure everybody needsto protect their jobs, you know,
people need to find ways toadvocate that feels right for
them. And if I was to say, hey,by, you know, you're white, you
(28:56):
can talk to your fellow whitepeople did treat me better, that
would have been such a, youknow, a burden put on them. But
the fact that they just affordedme that empathy, to sit down
with me and hear where I'm at.
And what I'm going through, wasso helpful that even today,
we're in different countriesnow. We still feel like sisters,
(29:16):
you know, there's no, there's nosugarcoating anything around
here. It's really about therelationship that we develop now
together with each other. So
Rocki Howard (29:30):
I love that. I simply cannot believe that we've
already gone through our 30minutes, I could talk to you for
hours, and I appreciate yourtransparency and just really
putting your heart on the lineand sharing your story with us.
As we wrap up today. As youknow, I've created this platform
to give a voice to those who areunderrepresented. So I just want
(29:53):
to give you a few minutes andI'd like for you to tell us what
it feels like to walk throughthe World of corporate as an
underrepresented. And maybe youcould wrap that up by giving a
piece of advice to, to peoplewho really want to be more
inclusive.
Kave Bulambo (30:13):
So it feels like you're walking on glass every
day. Because you're alone,right, and everybody else who
looks the same as that on thesidewalk, walking, standing and
seeing how you walking. And thisis performance, right. So your
performance is always beingwatched, to a point where you
can get anxious, or you can say,you know, what, I'm gonna be
(30:35):
myself, I'm gonna bring my wholeself to work, and I'm going to
do what I can do, without beingafraid and being shameful of
being anxious. You know, justput your best work forward, put
your foot forward, and just dothe things that you love to do.
It takes a lot of time, andyou're going to need to build
confidence if you are in thesespaces where you're alone, but
(30:59):
once you figure out your craft,there's no question about it.
Because your work speaks foritself. You know, there's no
question about it. And lastly,is just being humble, you know,
being human with other human andrecognize situations that you
need to walk away from when youdon't even need to put a
(31:21):
contribution to like you don'thave to have every kind of
conversations about people whodo not actually want to hear,
you know, they really do notwant to understand where you
come from, but they just want tohave, you know, conversations
that lead nowhere with noaction, but don't engage in
those kinds of conversations,talk to people who actually I
(31:42):
intentional, but what they wantto do in terms of diversity, but
also in terms of just wanting toknow you as a person.
Rocki Howard (31:49):
Yeah. Yeah, the humanity of it all, the humanity
of it all. And I think that'sperfect advice to that goes both
ways. Because I think when youwant to be a more inclusive
leader, when you want tounderstand more when you want to
create a culture of equity andinclusion and belonging, it
(32:11):
starts with humility. And itstarts with understanding and it
starts with one story and oneconversation at a time. Copy.
I'm so proud to be yourcolleague and your friend at
smart recruiters. I'm so gladthat that's not the experience
that we have that smartrecruiters and you are in a
situation where you canabsolutely shine. Thank you so
(32:35):
much for spending time with metoday.
Kave Bulambo (32:37):
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, and
I'm looking forward to hearingother stories as well.
Rocki Howard (32:47):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
The mission of this podcast isto give a voice to diversity. I
believe that the interactionsbetween all voices, minority and
majority can change thenarrative of how the world
communicates. And by changingthat narrative, we can change
(33:08):
the world. Join our mission tohumanize diversity, one story,
one conversation at a time bysharing our episodes, especially
with those who are privilegedand in positions of power. Help
the voices of diversity podcast,be a catalyst for courageous
(33:29):
conversations, and mostimportantly, for change. I'm
your host Rocki Howard
Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm
your host Rocki. Howard, Iidentify as she, her black,
Christian GenX, wife, mom. Theseattributes are dimensions of my
diversity of who I am. They arepart of my unique value
(00:38):
proposition and how I add valueto the world. And I believe it
is time for the world to hearthe stories of people like me,
those who are underrepresentedin corporate America. The
mission of this podcast is tohumanize diversity, one story,
one conversation at a time toshare the impact on those who
(01:01):
identify as beingunderrepresented as they go
through life in corporateAmerica. I hope you will listen
to this episode with open heartsand open minds. As today's
guests tell their story. Theyare a voice of diversity.
(01:25):
February in certain parts of theglobe is known as Black History
Month. In acknowledgment,celebrate celebration, and in
partnership with our sponsorsmart recruiters. We will be
hosting a series of chats withjust a few smart recruiters best
and brightest black leaders. Ifyou are not familiar, smart
recruiters is leading the moderntalent acquisition suite market
(01:48):
and I am so proud to be smartrecruiters Chief Diversity
Officer ready to replace yourold school ATMs and help your
organization achieve hiringsuccess. Then check us out at
smart recruiters.com we aregoing to launch the series with
cafe bellomo Coffee smartrecruiters imia Director of
(02:11):
talent acquisition and diversityand inclusion. She is also the
founder of black and techBerlin, a community that
provides engagement educationand a support system for black
tech professionals living inBerlin, Germany. kabe has a
bachelor's degree in Industrialpsychology and a master's degree
(02:31):
in Public Policy. Kava uses herboundless energy to advocate for
gender and immigrant rights.
While spending her days focusedon bringing more women of every
color into the tech space. Thisis going to be a great episode.
As coffee Belinda shares herexperiences as the voice of
black leadership.
(03:03):
Welcome to a very specialepisode of the voices of
diversity podcast. And one ofthe reasons why this episode is
so special is because I get tochat with my friend and my smart
recruiters colleague kabe today.
And so this should be a great,great conversation. So Connie, I
want to kick it over to you Willyou please introduce yourself to
(03:25):
our audience? And given themultiple dimensions of
diversity? Tell us how youidentify.
Kave Bulambo (03:33):
Awesome Thank you for having me. I'm excited. It's
also actually going to be blackhistory month in Germany in
February. So we have a lot tocelebrate together across
nations. So I am First of all, Iidentify as she her hers. I'm
(03:53):
also a mom, I'm also wife, Misssister also identifies an
advocate for gender rights forwomen and girls. I'm an
immigrant and the child ofimmigrants are second
generation. And my children arethird generation immigrant. And
professionally, I'm a talentacquisition specialist.
Rocki Howard (04:16):
I love that. So you are immigrants. You're
currently living in Germany.
Where is your origin for what?
What's your origin?
Kave Bulambo (04:25):
I forgot about that. I was born in the Congo in
the DRC. And I spent half of myadult life in South Africa
before mobile. Oh, wow.
Rocki Howard (04:39):
Wow. Wow. I love that. So tell me do you identify
as being black? Do you identifyas being African from a cultural
perspective? How do youidentify? Hmm.
Kave Bulambo (04:52):
So I've actually it's been a journey for me in
terms of finding my identity andhow it changes across time. In
spaces. So from the DRC point ofview, we identify ourselves as
Congolese. So from that point onour is just a Congolese young
woman. And it's only when Imoved to South Africa when I
started learning about thedifferences between races. And
(05:16):
of course, this is because ofthe history of South Africa.
Everybody is divided accordingto race. So I became black in
South Africa. But I fully fullydid not own it, I still cling to
my Congolese, I'm Congolese, butI'm living in South Africa, I
didn't, there was no space whereI needed to go every day and
say, I'm black. And that isbecause black people are the
(05:40):
majority in South Africa. Sowe're, you know, we feel at
home. But I was introduced toblackness in South Africa, and
in only up amplified when Imoved to Germany, when we became
a minority, you know, in Europe,and I really, you know, I didn't
(06:02):
fully own the the terminology orthe identity black, but that's
how we are identified here inGermany. And so of course, in
the beginning, I was stillsaying I'm Congolese, and I'm
African. That's what I wassaying. And then eventually, I
just, you know, suck, you know,what, everybody every term that
(06:26):
is, you know, in relation topeople who look like me in
German, yeah, he says black, hedoesn't say African. And there's
really nothing wrong with it.
Personally. There are someexperiences where it means
something bad, but I have feltlike why not on the identity are
black, and I'm African, youknow, with, with African
ancestry, you know, I mean,eventually, we all have African
(06:51):
ancestry. Right. So
Rocki Howard (06:57):
I love that. I love that. And, you know, I do
think that I appreciate yousharing your journey with us,
because I think it opens up athought process for people about
how many people have to go onthat type of journey, just to be
able to identify. So that's apowerful, powerful story. And
(07:20):
it, it leads me to a questionthat I want to ask you, right,
and I don't know if you have anopinion on this, but there's
lots of conversations aboutcultural categorization, for
lack of a better term. And so wehear the term bipoc, we hear the
term epic. Now, we hear the termminority, we hear
(07:41):
underrepresented. What do youthink is the right term? Do you
have one of those terms that youlike more than another? Do you
have a recommendation? What'syour point of view?
Kave Bulambo (07:54):
Okay. So before, before starting the work that I
do around advocacy for blackpeople, and people of African
descent in Germany, I wastotally fine with people going
with whatever they wanted to gowith. But then when the
conversation really about BlackLives Matter came up, and you
know, we started talking aboutracism, I realized that people
(08:17):
have a hard time saying black,they just have a hard time
saying black, because then itbrings up to the surface, all
the connotations that go withthe term black in this society.
So it's not that we I feel badabout being black, I don't feel
bad. I don't walk aroundthinking I'm black. I just walk
around as a human being, youknow, going my way, you know,
(08:39):
doing the things that I loveuntil I am reminded, you know,
of the color of my skin thenabout Oh, okay, I'm black, you
know, so those are the onlyinstances so for for people who
are not black, it's hard forthem to say, black, you know,
and I would encourage people tosay black, it's not a bad thing
(09:01):
to say, black people, blackchildren, black women, black
men, like there's really nothingwrong about it. It's really,
what do you have behind that?
That matters? You know, in whatcontext? Are you speaking about
black people? When it comes tobipoc? I feel like it's like a
scapegoat, like, an escape routeto say, you know, we have bipoc
(09:25):
you know, employees, what, whatdoes that mean? You know, what,
what does it mean? You know,because it means black people of
color, you know, indigenouspeople, do you really have them
in your company? Really? Do youreally have them? You know, so I
would encourage people toidentify people as they are and
(09:47):
off really, like put everyone ina basket and put them under one
experiences, because I can'treally claim the experiences of
Indigenous women in the US. Wedon't have indigenous people in
Germany, for example, like, youknow, so it's really the context
within which we use these terms,or people who are not from this
(10:09):
particular group, it's really totheir advantage and to escape
their realities and the actionsthat they need to take, you
know, that red dress, they're onracism or actions that they need
to take around diversity.
Rocki Howard (10:24):
So just be bold, to own it be bold. If you're, if
you're it's an uncomfortablething for some people get
comfortable being uncomfortable.
And if you don't know howsomeone identifies, just as I
Kave Bulambo (10:38):
just asked them, I have no problem telling them a
black woman, you
Rocki Howard (10:43):
know, got it. You mentioned that you are obviously
identify as a talent acquisitionprofessional, and you've also
been a strong advocate. So canyou tell us a little bit about
your career, tell us what you dofor a living. Tell us what
you've done for a living. Tellus how you got to your current
(11:04):
role. And for those that don'tknow, have a is smart recruiters
director of talent acquisitionand diversity. So take us on a
bit of a journey coffee, tell usa little bit about how you got
in this industry. The otheradvocacy work that I believe led
you to here and then how youwound up in this role.
Kave Bulambo (11:26):
Thank you that you mentioned that it's a it's a
journey that should take you onthe journey. Because I feel like
every career path is a journeythat you go on as an individual
that will lead you to where youare at the moment. Of course,
that's if you're conscious aboutit. But if I have to look back,
I've always had this desire tohelp people. And so I didn't
(11:49):
want to be a doctor, I didn'twant to be a psychotherapist, I
said I want some other kind ofproblems that I can help people
with, that does not involve reallife personal experiences. And
so I choose to study I chose tostudy psychology. Wow. And then
I majored in industrialpsychology because I really
(12:10):
wanted to be in the workingworld or the labor, you know,
conversation. So I majored inindustrial psychology. And when
I finished my bachelor's degree,I started to work with a
nonprofit organization. And myjob, there was a trainer. And I
used to train young people tobecome young leaders, young
(12:33):
professionals ready to startthinking about their lives
overall, in high school, andonce completing that they go
into the world. And it was sucha fulfilling experience
Unknown (12:44):
that I can imagine,
Kave Bulambo (12:46):
that I had, but that was really the foundation
of really like me delving intothe people space. Next to that,
of course, I always drove frommy own experiences and life
experiences. I thought about mymom, moving to South Africa as
an immigrant woman, and myselfand my siblings, and I'm the
(13:07):
first graduate. So in my family.
And I have been afforded so manyopportunities from the get go
simply because I went to school.
And so I take that with me,every time I have something
better, I look around and seewho needs it. And so I've always
carried this, this passion tohelp women, especially women
(13:28):
from migrant background, becauseof my mom, of course. And with
that, I studied gender studies,I took another degree to do
gender studies, and also wasdoing community work with
refugee women in South Africa.
And this was mostly to empowerthem to find a way to live
sustainably. And why do this isbecause migrant women are not
(13:51):
afforded the opportunity to getjobs, so they don't get four
more jobs. So they think formore markets. And so they have
to survive. And some of thethings that they need is
language skills, and skills. Andyou know, as I evolve, I thought
of more things like suing orcomputer skills or anything that
they can do with their hands.
(14:14):
And yeah, we I started an NGOcalled women across Buddha's.
Rocki Howard (14:21):
Like, I just want to pause there for a minute, you
just say that, like most peoplejust wake up in the morning and
start an NGO. Right, let's pausefor a minute. It's an incredible
accomplishment.
Kave Bulambo (14:35):
Thank you, thank you. But as I always think about
the things that I have in myhand, and I the influence that I
have, and I think about whocould this influence that I have
benefits, you know, because Ialready have this power, this
authority, this knowledge, thisconnections, and I just use them
(14:55):
in the best way that I can andit is through that work with
women. refugee women, migrantwomen that led me to Germany to
pursue a master's degree inPublic Policy, because I figured
out that, yes, you can workrestrooms, but actually, the
policies matter more. And Ineeded to, I felt like I needed
(15:16):
a higher position to actuallyinfluence the rules and the laws
that we put in place to ensurethat women and girls are
successful, especially refugeewomen,
Rocki Howard (15:26):
sustainable impact and sustainable change. Exactly.
And
Kave Bulambo (15:29):
so I embarked on the journey to study public
policy and global governance inGermany. And it was really
great, really good learningexperience. And once I completed
that, by some miracle, I guessit was meant to be the first job
(15:49):
I got was in HR and not inpublic policy. And I was just
like, what is this? I want towork in policy, I want to
influence policy. And, you know,I, I struggled a little bit to
figure out how to connect this,my previous career experiences
to my, to my current environmentis was Germany, I hadn't seen
(16:14):
the impact of everything that Ihad done before, and how they
could incorporate in thissociety, because there's always
this idea that the developedworld is way ahead, is more
advanced. And so there's reallynothing to fix. But the truth
is, there are as many immigrantwomen here, there's many refugee
(16:36):
women here, there's many womenat work here, who are looking
for very, very similaropportunities that the women
that are in Africa in otherplaces are looking for. And so
when I was able to connect thosedots, between finding space for
women, and underrepresentedgroups in the workspace, and I
(16:58):
was so fortunate to be in tech,oh, Zack, Oh, my gosh, there's
this whole industry, cooltechnology, oh, my goodness,
that women can just learn how tocode, you know, this is all they
need. And so I starteddeveloping my passion from
there, how to bring more women,more people of underrepresented
(17:19):
groups into technology, andfinding out how everything else
studied actually led me to thisspace that I am in today. And
since then, I've been in Berlin,working in the talent
acquisition field, also doing alot of employer branding and
community building. I'm sopassionate about community
building. Even if you don't payme to do that, I'll find a way
(17:43):
to do that. And so next to mytalent acquisition role, I've
also started a community calledBlack in tech Berlin, you know,
where we empower blackprofessionals, we see where
they're, what are they lookingfor? And how can we create a
space where they can accessresources and opportunities.
Rocki Howard (18:05):
We'll make sure that the link to that resource
group is connected in our shownotes so that people can support
it. I love that I love that youyou. It's incredible. And you do
that, and your wife and mom aswell. It's absolutely incredible
what you do. I can't believewe're already halfway through
our time today. You There'ssomething I want to ask you, as
(18:30):
we transition, a little bit ofan echo kind of weird. I'm sure
there's something I want to askyou as we transition, right. And
you live in multiple worlds,you've lived in multiple
locations, you speak multiplelanguages. And there is this
thing that I believe several ofus who are minorities in the
(18:54):
workspace, and especially whenyou're black, we have to engage
in and it's called codeswitching, right? So I want you
to tell me is essentially, inall of the ways that you've
worked? Can you tell us about asituation where maybe you felt
the need to code switch tomaintain your career status or
(19:15):
to move forward?
Kave Bulambo (19:17):
So I, when I was thinking about that question, I
felt like I had to do a lot ofcode switching in the beginning
of my career. So I could justfit in, especially here in
Berlin, because most of the timewas the only black woman on team
or the only black woman in theentire company. So I had to just
(19:39):
like, you know, do the thingsthat the majority of people were
doing, you know, I have kids,most of the phone team did not
have kids. And that was reallythe hardest part because people
did not understand why I had toleave early. Why I had to attend
a school meeting. You know,everybody was in their 20s and
(19:59):
you know, just completelydifferent kind of, of
backgrounds. And so exampleswill be like, let's go out after
work, suck, man, I can do thisonce, you know, once a month,
but I don't want to do thisevery Friday, you know, but if I
didn't do that, then I wasconsidered not a team player,
(20:22):
you know, right. At the back ofmy mind, every time I'm there,
I'm just thinking about my kids.
You know, I'm just like, I don'tknow what's happening at home.
But I need to get out of here.
But you know, in that moment, Ihave to just be there and
pretend that everything is fine.
So those who are like, mymoment, of course, switching as
(20:43):
a mom,
Rocki Howard (20:46):
it shouldn't be to make a decision for caring for
your children, or going out tofeel like you're included,
right? So that's a message tothe people who are listening in
in the majority, you need toreally think about how you you
are forcing people toparticipate in activities,
(21:09):
because the other side of it isexclusion. Right? Go ahead, you
were gonna share another bitwith us. Yeah,
Kave Bulambo (21:15):
another thing that I did, though, was code
switching, but in a positiveway. I just decided to be like,
extra black. Like, I was justlike, you know what, I have no
time for this. I just like cutmy hair. And just like, you
know, I became really vocalabout, you know, who I am and
(21:36):
the things that I want to do andthe things that I like to do.
And the things that I think I'mnot supposed to be doing, you
know, and really like havingcandid conversations, and they
did not go down? Well, becausethey expectation is, you know, I
should be told what to do, youknow, and I was not standing up
(21:58):
for that. And that really mademy life a nightmare. Like one
company, I worked at
Rocki Howard (22:03):
how so let's dig into that. Like, what were the
repercussions? You know, so weespecially in the tech industry,
right? We love to say in tech,bring your whole self to work.
So tell this audience, what werethe ramifications when you
actually brought your whole selfto work, I was considered
difficult.
Kave Bulambo (22:24):
I was no longer included in some conversations,
especially in meetings. I wasnot considered the most, you
know, the one of thecontributors, important
contributors on team, because hewas currently now difficult to
work with me. My manager foundit hard to have conversation
(22:46):
with me and they will haveconversation with somebody else
to come in Tell me. And theperson of course, will be a
senior and I will just like tellthem how how it is and how it
was. And of course, then itbecomes like a game a chase
game. But I said I'm just gonnabe as honest as possible. But I
don't think this is the way it'ssupposed to be. If they felt
(23:08):
that way, they need to come backto me and tell tell me. Yeah, I
had moments where I was told offduring meetings with literally I
am presenting and somebody onteam will stand up and say, No,
that's not true. Just likeyou're supposed to be on my
team. If it's true, or if it'snot true, you're supposed to
(23:31):
message me or say it in a wayHey, Kobe. You know, I was also
looking at the same numbers, thesame statistics, and I saw this
maybe, is it the same thing,you're talking about this the
way you talk to someone? Not ina way that shows them that
you're on the same team withyou? And there's the way you
talk to someone when you want todiscredit them? And that was my
(23:54):
scenario. It that specificcompany, and it was,
Rocki Howard (23:59):
hell. Gosh, how, like you said it was held,
describe how that made you feel?
And ultimately, I think thelesson is, you're obviously not
with that company anymore.
Right? You chose not to workthere. But help our audience for
someone who's never been in thatsituation. help people
(24:20):
understand what that felt likepersonally for you.
Kave Bulambo (24:24):
It was really, really sad. So the context
everybody has to understand thatI was the only black person on
team I was the only black womanI was the only parent on my
team. And everybody else on Teamfelt that they were better than
me simply because they felt theywere better than me. Do I better
(24:45):
doing the jobs and this was myfirst time being in tech. So I
think you know that was beingused against me because you
know, as Tom said, we all needto learn understand where we are
trying to connect the dots. Youknow, so that we can fully do
our work. But I was never giventhat opportunity. So, you know,
(25:06):
instances like not being invitedto Team lunches, like saying hi
to managers that they walk pastme, like straight. Like, I'm
looking at you Rocky. And Isaid, Hi, and you will pass me.
I used to cry. Honestly, I usedto come home. And I tell my
husband, though, like, you know,I don't want to go back there. I
(25:27):
do not want to go back there. Iusually used to cry. And there
are people in other team that'sso what happened to me what was
happening in it, but they had noinfluence to like, you know,
change the way people treated mein that team. But they did come
to me and say, We're so sorryabout what's happening. You're
(25:47):
such a great person, you know,just keep doing what you're
doing. But you know, yeah,that's just how it was. Wow,
until I decided that okay, thisis it. This is the end of this
journey, by us really, from topup?
Rocki Howard (26:04):
Yeah. So I want to, I want to stop there for a
minute. For a lot of people. Ifyou ask them, they will say that
they are an ally, okay. But whenthe moment comes to be able to
speak up, defend someone, andchallenge the behavior that
other people are imposing, onunderrepresented, those allies
(26:30):
often don't take that stand, youare not an ally, if you sneak
behind the curtain, and sayyou're a great person, you are
an ally, if you stand with thatperson, and look the bully in
the face and say, This is notacceptable. So while we're on
the subject of allies, Covey,has there been someone that you
(26:55):
would call out as a great ally?
And a mentor to you that hassupported your career? And if
so, could you tell us a littlebit about that person? And how
they've made a difference foryou?
Kave Bulambo (27:06):
Yes. So in that same environment, I had two
women, I see three women, whowere my allies. Of course, they
did not, you know, come to myteam and kind of intervene and,
you know, and say what you'redoing is really not great. But
they will literally like makesure like, we they will invite
(27:26):
me for lunch, we'll talk about,you know, our work outside of,
you know, what we do thecompany? What kind of projects
are we doing? What am I lookingfor? What are they looking for?
Usually, these allies, they werenot from this specific context.
So there are also women whomoved to Germany, you know, to
pursue their careers. But amongthem, there were two women who
(27:49):
identify as white and one womanwho identify as Asian. And
they're really, really, reallytreated me well. And up to
today, we still have contact andthe kind of conversations we had
one not necessarily like, megoing to them and say, Hey, you
know what, I have the situationin my team, what do you think I
(28:09):
should do? We'll have thisconversation who I'll go and cry
to them. And they will be there,listen to me, and say, oh, my
goodness, we wish, you know,things were better, but stay
strong, stay smart, you know,we're gonna create the, you
know, diversity resource group,you know, and we'll join it
together with you and otherpeople. And to me, it's only
(28:34):
after, after leaving, then Irealize how much that support
was so important for me in thatmoment, you know, because as
soon as I'm sure everybody needsto protect their jobs, you know,
people need to find ways toadvocate that feels right for
them. And if I was to say, hey,by, you know, you're white, you
(28:56):
can talk to your fellow whitepeople did treat me better, that
would have been such a, youknow, a burden put on them. But
the fact that they just affordedme that empathy, to sit down
with me and hear where I'm at.
And what I'm going through, wasso helpful that even today,
we're in different countriesnow. We still feel like sisters,
(29:16):
you know, there's no, there's nosugarcoating anything around
here. It's really about therelationship that we develop now
together with each other. So
Rocki Howard (29:30):
I love that. I simply cannot believe that we've
already gone through our 30minutes, I could talk to you for
hours, and I appreciate yourtransparency and just really
putting your heart on the lineand sharing your story with us.
As we wrap up today. As youknow, I've created this platform
to give a voice to those who areunderrepresented. So I just want
(29:53):
to give you a few minutes andI'd like for you to tell us what
it feels like to walk throughthe World of corporate as an
underrepresented. And maybe youcould wrap that up by giving a
piece of advice to, to peoplewho really want to be more
inclusive.
Kave Bulambo (30:13):
So it feels like you're walking on glass every
day. Because you're alone,right, and everybody else who
looks the same as that on thesidewalk, walking, standing and
seeing how you walking. And thisis performance, right. So your
performance is always beingwatched, to a point where you
can get anxious, or you can say,you know, what, I'm gonna be
(30:35):
myself, I'm gonna bring my wholeself to work, and I'm going to
do what I can do, without beingafraid and being shameful of
being anxious. You know, justput your best work forward, put
your foot forward, and just dothe things that you love to do.
It takes a lot of time, andyou're going to need to build
confidence if you are in thesespaces where you're alone, but
(30:59):
once you figure out your craft,there's no question about it.
Because your work speaks foritself. You know, there's no
question about it. And lastly,is just being humble, you know,
being human with other human andrecognize situations that you
need to walk away from when youdon't even need to put a
(31:21):
contribution to like you don'thave to have every kind of
conversations about people whodo not actually want to hear,
you know, they really do notwant to understand where you
come from, but they just want tohave, you know, conversations
that lead nowhere with noaction, but don't engage in
those kinds of conversations,talk to people who actually I
(31:42):
intentional, but what they wantto do in terms of diversity, but
also in terms of just wanting toknow you as a person.
Rocki Howard (31:49):
Yeah. Yeah, the humanity of it all, the humanity
of it all. And I think that'sperfect advice to that goes both
ways. Because I think when youwant to be a more inclusive
leader, when you want tounderstand more when you want to
create a culture of equity andinclusion and belonging, it
(32:11):
starts with humility. And itstarts with understanding and it
starts with one story and oneconversation at a time. Copy.
I'm so proud to be yourcolleague and your friend at
smart recruiters. I'm so gladthat that's not the experience
that we have that smartrecruiters and you are in a
situation where you canabsolutely shine. Thank you so
(32:35):
much for spending time with metoday.
Kave Bulambo (32:37):
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, and
I'm looking forward to hearingother stories as well.
Rocki Howard (32:47):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
The mission of this podcast isto give a voice to diversity. I
believe that the interactionsbetween all voices, minority and
majority can change thenarrative of how the world
communicates. And by changingthat narrative, we can change
(33:08):
the world. Join our mission tohumanize diversity, one story,
one conversation at a time bysharing our episodes, especially
with those who are privilegedand in positions of power. Help
the voices of diversity podcast,be a catalyst for courageous
(33:29):
conversations, and mostimportantly, for change. I'm
your host Rocki Howard
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